Unconfirmed but word is Gilmore out at Holy Cross

[Sader87]

per the HC message board

[Son of Eli]

I was at the game yesterday. Holy Cross did not look like the same team which beat New Hampshire and nearly beat UConn and Dartmouth. Hard to explain. Looks like Yale was just vastly better prepared.

[Sader87]

Not confirmed but many are saying it's possible a decision was made prior to the game hence the total lifeless effort by the Saders yesterday.

[LehighU11]

Hopefully this is true and at least one other PL school will make a similar move prior to 2018.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Hopefully it's true! This has been a long coming at HC like the Tavani situation at Lafayette. This sends a message to the rest of the PL that HC is serious about football!

If only Lehigh had the guts to fire some of their defensive coaches!

[Go Green]

Pretty rare for this to happen mid-season in the PL (or Ivy).

Any precedents?

[Sader87]

Confirmed....Gilmore out, Rock interim coach

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Hopefully this is true and at least one other PL school will make a similar move prior to 2018.

Coen is not going to get fired nor should he. This year has been a disaster but his body of work still blows Tavani and Gilmore away imo. But if he doesn't get the defense turned around next year then it might be time to look elsewhere. Andy is a good coach imo but he is very reliant on his coordinators.

How about Gilmore back to Lehigh as DC?!?!

[Lehigh'98]

Nice, only 7 or 8 poor seasons was all it took.

[Neighbor2]

Coen is not going to get fired nor should he. This year has been a disaster but his body of work still blows Tavani and Gilmore away imo. But if he doesn't get the defense turned around next year then it might be time to look elsewhere. Andy is a good coach imo but he is very reliant on his coordinators.

How about Gilmore back to Lehigh as DC?!?!

I'd really like to see Andy Coen replaced. The Lehigh football program needs FULL reboot. It seems a given the Defensive Staff will go. Offensive Staff is living off the skills of great receivers and a couple stud runners, but the play designs aren't very creative.

I just can't get excited about the prospects of another season of Coen. I mean, even Coen doesn't seem very motivated, either. Would it not be better to bring in a fresh, NEW Head Coach and allow that person to create his own team of Assistants?

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

I'd really like to see Andy Coen replaced. The Lehigh football program needs FULL reboot. It seems a given the Defensive Staff will go. Offensive Staff is living off the skills of great receivers and a couple stud runners, but the play designs aren't very creative.

I just can't get excited about the prospects of another season of Coen. I mean, even Coen doesn't seem very motivated, either. Would it not be better to bring in a fresh, NEW Head Coach and allow that person to create his own team of Assistants?

The OC is fine. First year on the gig and the offense is putting up very good numbers. He was forced to change the offense since Shafnisky had a different skill set than Mayes. Folmar was looked at in the same light his first year and turned out to be outstanding.

There's no doubt that Coen is a bit of an enigma. I think next will the program needs to really take a step forward. There's still a reasonably good chance they win the league. I know not much of an accomplishment but at least it would avoid a true embarrassment. He's made some very good hires but the problem is it's nearly impossible to keep good assistants at this level.

[DFW HOYA]

Confirmed by the Worcester Telegram. Two questions:

1. Last mid-season firing in PL history?

2. How many other coaches are in warm water? Two? Three? More?

[Sader87]

I think the Navy hoop coach was fired mid-season a few years back....same at UPenn....can't think of a PL/IL football coach fired mid-season off the top of my head.

After yesterday's performance, as tough as it is, it was a decision that simply had to be made now rather than later.

[TheValleyRaider]

Interesting that it's a midseason decision, but even more so is the other rumor above, that he was told prior to the Yale game. If so, why not do it last Sunday? Or why not wait until after the game?

Changes the complexion of this weekend's game from Colgate's perspective, at least a little bit

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Who are the "lead" names? Does Holy Cross have any former players that hold oc/dc coordinator positions at the D1 level? Anyone with former ties to the school? I'm interested to see who they land. I feel like parts of the administration is like Lafayette but there is a vocal sect that is pro-sports. That's why Carmody is there. There are other obstacles. After all it's "The College of the Holy Cross" so the religious aspect is there. Granted, the "normal" college experience is there if you so choose. I consider most Catholic/Jesuit schools to be pretty liberal. Plus, there's not a lot of D1 football players in New England. One thing that Lehigh and Lafayette have going for it is an excellent recruiting footprint. Bucknell too given their proximity to the WPIAL and Ohio.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I'm stunned not that he was fired, but the timing of it. They have a game next week!

[RichH2]

I'm stunned not that he was fired, but the timing of it. They have a game next week!

Pine wants a new HC going into recruiting. Expect a new one will be named the day after season end for his present team.

[Southsider]

Coen is not going to get fired nor should he. This year has been a disaster but his body of work still blows Tavani and Gilmore away imo. But if he doesn't get the defense turned around next year then it might be time to look elsewhere. Andy is a good coach imo but he is very reliant on his coordinators.

How about Gilmore back to Lehigh as DC?!?!

Couldn't disagree more with you Owl. Consistently slow starts to many of his 12 seasons, horrible defenses, and on and on. You defend the OC's. While they have put up good numbers over the years, I think they do it running 5 or 6 plays. I think the O is stale, and can do so much more. Thanks God for the studs they do have. I guess we will wait and see............

[van]

I'd really like to see Andy Coen replaced. The Lehigh football program needs FULL reboot. It seems a given the Defensive Staff will go. Offensive Staff is living off the skills of great receivers and a couple stud runners, but the play designs aren't very creative.

I just can't get excited about the prospects of another season of Coen. I mean, even Coen doesn't seem very motivated, either. Would it not be better to bring in a fresh, NEW Head Coach and allow that person to create his own team of Assistants?

Really, you complain about the Offense, look at the stats, now we want style points too, you want creative take a ceramics class, give me a break

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Couldn't disagree more with you Owl. Consistently slow starts to many of his 12 seasons, horrible defenses, and on and on. You defend the OC's. While they have put up good numbers over the years, I think they do it running 5 or 6 plays. I think the O is stale, and can do so much more. Thanks God for the studs they do have. I guess we will wait and see............

I understand the frustration with the defense and with Coen. If the wheels fall off down the stretch or they lose badly to Lafayette to cap a losing season then my frustration level will be higher. I think he deserves a chance to make major changes to the defense. I think he has earned that right, especially if they win the league or go down swinging. But the nonsense has to end. The issues at Lehigh pale in comparison to what has been going on at Holy Cross and Lafayette this decade.

I like what HC and Lafayette have done because it should increase the pressure at Lehigh. Wasn't there rumor of a sit down with Sterrett and Coen after Penn?

[Sader87]

Fair amount of former HC players in the coaching ranks...most prominent being Lee Hull (Morgan St, Colts), Bill McGovern (many places at the FCS/FBS level), Terry Malone (same as McGovern).....be interesting

[Lehigh Football Nation]

You're 1-1 in the league, and you've got a big HOME game vs. Colgate next week to decide your chances of winning the Patriot League. If you're Nathan Pine, what do you do?

1) Do nothing and wait and see how the game goes vs. Colgate next week

2) Fire the head coach and create a distraction, crater morale and force the assistant coach to cobble together a gameplan for the biggest game of the year

I fail to see how Option 2) is good for this particular group.

If you were hell-bent on firing Gilmore after the Lafayette game, do it that Sunday. Then, if you lose to Yale, eh. At least you gave the interim guy a chance with a two-week headstart.

If you were simply leaning towards firing Gilmore but seriously wanted to salvage the season, you'd have at least kept him in to see this thing through. Love or hate Gilmore, does anyone seriously think that firing him NOW is at all helpful? It is awfully easy to see this disruption as the final touches on a 2-9 season, IMO.

[Sader87]

Recruiting for one...next active session I believe is coming up in a couple weeks.

Painful to do it now agreed....though it should have been done probably 3 years ago, last year or a month ago...it's finally done. Better now than in December.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Maybe this has been pre-arranged so that Lehigh can sign Gilmore as our DC during our bye week to prepare for the Mountain Hawks' FCS National Championship run

[UNHWildcat18]

Good move for HC, based on how they played vs UConn and UNH this team had the talent and potential to sweep through the PL IMO. still can't believe how this team has fallen apart

[aceinthehole]

Who are the "lead" names? Does Holy Cross have any former players that hold oc/dc coordinator positions at the D1 level? Anyone with former ties to the school? I'm interested to see who they land. I feel like parts of the administration is like Lafayette but there is a vocal sect that is pro-sports. That's why Carmody is there. There are other obstacles. AfteMar all it's "The College of the Holy Cross" so the religious aspect is there. Granted, the "normal" college experience is there if you so choose. I consider most Catholic/Jesuit schools to be pretty liberal. Plus, there's not a lot of D1 football players in New England. One thing that Lehigh and Lafayette have going for it is an excellent recruiting footprint. Bucknell too given their proximity to the WPIAL and Ohio.


How about Mark Nofri at Sacred Heart? After taking over as interim HC for the Pioneers in 2012, he won 2 NEC titles in 2013 and 2014. He has a New England background (Keene State alum) and has coached at a Catholic university for years.

http://www.sacredheartpioneers.com/sports/m-footbl/coaches/nofri_mark00.html?view=bio

I'll throw his name out there as a 'dark horse' candidate.

[ngineer]

How about Mark Nofri at Sacred Heart? After taking over as interim HC for the Pioneers in 2012, he won 2 NEC titles in 2013 and 2014. He has a New England background (Keene State alum) and has coached at a Catholic university for years.

http://www.sacredheartpioneers.com/sports/m-footbl/coaches/nofri_mark00.html?view=bio

I'll throw his name out there as a 'dark horse' candidate.

Makes sense. He's made SHU a competitive team. While LU alums are enthralled with Gilmore when he was LU's DC, 14 years later, I don't know. No question LU's D needs a shot in the arm or a kick in the ass, but not sure if Gilmore is the guy. Could be an interesting discussion. I am not surprised by he decision. After the horrendous fourth down call against Laughyette, and then this putrid performance against Yale, something had to happen. Very rare for a PL school to make such a move mid-season. Says how noticeable the decline has been in one month. I am sure a lot was getting out of the locker room that helped the decision. Once a coach loses "the room", it's over. Once thing about Coen, his players really seem to like him. Lehigh is in position to win the PL a second year in a row, and should that happen, regardless of the lack of style points this year, one cannot dismiss the HC. Keep in mind, athletics are nowhere near important as "we" who populate boards such as this think they are. The metrics are totally different than at a MVFC or CAA school, where are bigger expectations.

[carney2]

Maybe this has been pre-arranged so that Lehigh can sign Gilmore as our DC during our bye week to prepare for the Mountain Hawks' FCS National Championship run

And maybe the world doesn't revolve around Lehigh.

[Go...gate]

Not confirmed but many are saying it's possible a decision was made prior to the game hence the total lifeless effort by the Saders yesterday.

Fired BEFORE the game? That would be truly bizarre.

[carney2]

All this talk about Cross alumni as candidates for the job. Pine isn't a dummy. Maybe he watched as Lafayette mounted a truly professional search for someone to replace Frank Tavani. Then they repeated the process in hiring a women's basketball coach. Ya think maybe Pine might borrow a page from that book and hire someone that none of you could ever think of in your wildest dreams?

[Go...gate]

Interesting that it's a midseason decision, but even more so is the other rumor above, that he was told prior to the Yale game. If so, why not do it last Sunday? Or why not wait until after the game?

Changes the complexion of this weekend's game from Colgate's perspective, at least a little bit

Colgate - Cross is always a tough game. They will be ready.

[crusader11]

The crazy thing -- would if really surprise anyone if HC beat Colgate?

[PAllen]

Maybe this has been pre-arranged so that Lehigh can sign Gilmore as our DC during our bye week to prepare for the Mountain Hawks' FCS National Championship run

Funny, but Andy and Joe should be on the phone finalizing the deal as we speak if they had any sense.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The crazy thing -- would if really surprise anyone if HC beat Colgate?

Yes.

[Schism55]

The crazy thing -- would if really surprise anyone if HC beat Colgate?
Not one bit. Colgate is not good.

[Sader87]

It is crazy....not that it will happen, but HC has the overall talent to win the rest of their PL games. I actually fully expect them to beat Colgate at Fitton Saturday playing loose etc .....free from Gilmore's reign.

The toughest game left will probably be at Lehigh but it wouldn't shock me if they won their last 3 or 4 games.

[Go...gate]

The crazy thing -- would if really surprise anyone if HC beat Colgate?

No. Both teams have their troubles. I also think that Gilmore's situation was a drag on the HC program.

[Milktruck74]

Maybe they will hire Tom Arth, and my Mocs will have a shot at winning a few games next season!!!!

[Franks Tanks]

Gilmore can do much better than the DC at Lehigh. The guy was a head coach for 12 years and can land a job as an FBS assistant or even lower level NFL coach. I would be surprised if he takes a job as a PL assistant.

[Go Green]

Gilmore can do much better than the DC at Lehigh. The guy was a head coach for 12 years and can land a job as an FBS assistant or even lower level NFL coach. I would be surprised if he takes a job as a PL assistant.

I hope he does as well. But former Princeton coach Steve Tosches is a corporate headhunter, and former Dartmouth coach Joe Yucika is a real estate agent. Those guys had success coaching success as well before they were let go.

[Fordham]

I think programs that act boldly like this will be rewarded. Between their facilities upgrades and no longer accepting this mediocrity (and worse) I think HC will be moving up quickly.

My hunch is that we will be in the market for a new coach as well so it will be interesting to see if this move allows HC to get a jump on us and any other schools searching for new HC's.

The big ? i have with the move is the posts that indicated that this is so the new coach can get a jump on recruiting. At this point, my guess is that your pool of candidates are guys currently coaching on staff's that are doing well enough that they could be in the playoffs or certainly coaching through the end of the year. So how much of a jump are you really getting? Makes me think this had less to do with getting a jump than some other reason that made this happen now instead of the customary final-game-sayonara.

[RichH2]

Fordham
A bit different this year with the early signing period in December. Dont think anyone really knows how much of an impact it will have on recruiting. Another issue for Cross is Gilmore has over 100 offers out as of now.

[carney2]

It is crazy....not that it will happen, but HC has the overall talent to win the rest of their PL games. I actually fully expect them to beat Colgate at Fitton Saturday playing loose etc .....free from Gilmore's reign.

The toughest game left will probably be at Lehigh but it wouldn't shock me if they won their last 3 or 4 games.

What's that you say ... I finally agree with 87 on something. Think about the Colgate game:

- Colgate has a great defense, but the Cross has Pujals.
- The HC faithful feel that they have a good defense this year.
- The Colgate offense remains questionable.

As for the Cross against Lehigh, Put this in your head and rattle it around: Pujals against that Lehigh non-D.

I'm not as confident as 87 appears to be for this week at Fitton, but IF the saders can make it happen, they become the odds on favorites to grab the trophy in my opinion.

[PAllen]

I understand the frustration with the defense and with Coen. If the wheels fall off down the stretch or they lose badly to Lafayette to cap a losing season then my frustration level will be higher. I think he deserves a chance to make major changes to the defense. I think he has earned that right, especially if they win the league or go down swinging. But the nonsense has to end. The issues at Lehigh pale in comparison to what has been going on at Holy Cross and Lafayette this decade.

I like what HC and Lafayette have done because it should increase the pressure at Lehigh. Wasn't there rumor of a sit down with Sterrett and Coen after Penn?

He's had many chances to make major changes on defense. LU's defense has been terrible for what 5-6 years now? He's hired how many defensive coaches in that time frame?

[Neighbor2]

He's had many chances to make major changes on defense. LU's defense has been terrible for what 5-6 years now? He's hired how many defensive coaches in that time frame?


I certainly agree! There's been far too much patience shown already, HOWEVER . . . .

Based on many of the replies here, I get the impression the ULTIMATE goal with Patriot League football is to win the Patriot League Championship. It seems, even losing to all non-league opponents is no big deal. Sure, it's more fun to win every game, but the LEAGUE is where it's at. In other words, we play in the FBS Division, we'd like to recruit the best athletes at this level but, if we can beat 6 league opponents, we've got it ALL !

We're not the CAA, the Missouri Valley, etc. That's not who we are. Evidently, non-league battles are exhibition/preseason games. We have a 'higher calling' in what we do.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Based on many of the replies here, I get the impression the ULTIMATE goal with Patriot League football is to win the Patriot League Championship. It seems, even losing to all non-league opponents is no big deal. Sure, it's more fun to win every game, but the LEAGUE is where it's at. In other words, we play in the FBS Division, we'd like to recruit the best athletes at this level but, if we can beat 6 league opponents, we've got it ALL !

We're not the CAA, the Missouri Valley, etc. That's not who we are. Evidently, non-league battles are exhibition/preseason games. We have a 'higher calling' in what we do.

You are confusing "ultimate goal" with "goal of this season". Only Bucknell has a winning record in OOC play, so for this season, the goal of this season for every team is to win the League and hopefully play loose and upset some teams in the FCS playoffs. There are no at-large bids this season. I don't think among people here there's a feeling that the ultimate goal of multi-bid PL teams, teams with a shot at the national championship, etc. is being met by any school. But discussions on the ultimate goal are secondary right now to the goals of this season, which is still unfurling. We have all of the offseason to discuss the ultimate goals.

[Neighbor2]

You are confusing "ultimate goal" with "goal of this season". Only Bucknell has a winning record in OOC play, so for this season, the goal of this season for every team is to win the League and hopefully play loose and upset some teams in the FCS playoffs. There are no at-large bids this season. I don't think among people here there's a feeling that the ultimate goal of multi-bid PL teams, teams with a shot at the national championship, etc. is being met by any school. But discussions on the ultimate goal are secondary right now to the goals of this season, which is still unfurling. We have all of the offseason to discuss the ultimate goals.

True, for this season. Replacing a current coach, selecting a new coach is all about future seasons. Holy Cross decided how to approach their future season already. Lehigh and Fordham are probably looking ahead, too. This Patriot League season is a competitive failure, no doubt. It's not too early to consider why or how much a season like this matters to each institution.

I know, if I were a recruit to the FCS level, I'd want to go where the focus is clear. Where I'll be supported with all the same tools provided to my opponents.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

He's had many chances to make major changes on defense. LU's defense has been terrible for what 5-6 years now? He's hired how many defensive coaches in that time frame?

This will be the 5h year ('13, '14, '15, '16) of bad to historically bad defense. Fordham's defense has also sucked in that same time period. But it was masked by Edmonds and Moorhead's offensive prowess for the most part. Even Colgate's defense in 2015 wasn't very good. They outscored Fordham, Lehigh and JMU and got run by SHSU at the end of the year.

All the teams in the Patriot League are clearly flawed this year. Holy Cross and Lafayette are/were at much deeper depths than Lehigh and it was easily time for change. I do believe that if Lehigh wants to remain better than those programs then the bar must be raised and that starts with the AD and Coen. I think what's missed is the apparent lack of pay for assistants. If that's the case people need step up because Coen can only do so much. If they do indeed fail to win the league/make the playoffs after being a preseason top 20 team then I have no problem with really putting the pressure on him next year. (12 years, 3 playoff appearances, 5 losing seasons, terrible defense, bunch of ugly losses etc.) There's ammo there to expect more. As of now, based on what I see I believe there's a fundamental problem that exists at Lehigh and other PL schools. Meaning it's time to really invest in the program with facility updates, student/alumni engagement, coach pay, roster sizes, redshirting, hosting playoff games. Unless Lehigh will pony up to host playoff games it really doesn't matter outside of the league anyway...

[Neighbor2]

Good post, Go Lehigh TU owl!

We only differ as to the value in retaining Andy Coen. I think it's better to start FRESH with a younger, more energetic Head Coach who chooses the people he's comfortable with. This Lehigh football effort is at a low enough level to make dramatic changes.

[van]

on the subject of assistant coaches, it seems PL is a stepping stone for assistants, not many long term assistants, the best ones move on, so there is quite a bit of turnover, finding good ones not always an easy task, Lehigh is attractive for quality Offensive guys because they can fill out a resume with our historically strong O (how we lost the last two OCs), the trick is to attract the quality defensive coaches looking for a challenge to turn our D around

[KnightoftheRedFlash]

About time, Holy Cross fired the Guy of Lusignan of coaches.

[LU808]

Gilmore can do much better than the DC at Lehigh. The guy was a head coach for 12 years and can land a job as an FBS assistant or even lower level NFL coach. I would be surprised if he takes a job as a PL assistant.


SERIOUSLY?

[Go...gate]

I hope he does as well. But former Princeton coach Steve Tosches is a corporate headhunter, and former Dartmouth coach Joe Yucika is a real estate agent. Those guys had success coaching success as well before they were let go.

Steve and Carole Tosches are really nice people. Princeton did not treat Steve well at all.

[Sader87]

For the record, Joe Yukica (from all accounts a fine man/coach, despite his BC years) is 86 years old.....I don't think he's looking to get back into coaching anytime soon.....

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Still pretty stunned that coach Gilmore was fired. Not sure there's that much new here that Jen Toland hasn't already reported, but I added my thoughts and observations.

https://lehighfootballnation.blogspot.com/2017/10/patriot-league-fans-stunned-at-firing.html

[Go Green]

For the record, Joe Yukica (from all accounts a fine man/coach, despite his BC years) is 86 years old.....I don't think he's looking to get back into coaching anytime soon.....

I have no doubt that you're correct that Yukica is a hell of a guy (and Tosches, too). My points was that they were pretty comparable to where Gilmore was when they were let go, and were not offered coaching jobs (or at least jobs that they were willing to take). Dartmouth offered the offensive coordinator position to recently-fired Jim Pry of Illinois, but he turned it down (presumably because of pay and/or holding out for a FBS position).

And I remember reading that Yukica was instrumental in a major coaching domino effect. When Notre Dame offered the HC job to George O'Leary, O"Leary's bio said that he played for UNH. A reporter called up Yukica and asked how it felt that one of his former players was now the Notre Dame coach. Yukica responded that he didn't remember O'Leary. The reporter thought that was strange, but conceivable. So the reporter called up the captain of the UNH team, and he said that O'Leary was never on the football team. So the reporter called up Notre Dame for comment, and then everything blew up (O'Leary also lied about having a graduate degree). O'Leary resigned the next day, Willingaham took over at ND, and Teevens went to Stanford. Teevens was fired the same year that Dartmouth fired John Lyons, and Teevens came back to Dartmouth.

[DFW HOYA]

Still pretty stunned that coach Gilmore was fired.

I think there may be other PL coaches in similar distress--the word on the Fordham boards about Breiner is not encouraging.

And what would have been the heat on Coen heading into last week had Lehigh lost to Colgate?

[Sader87]

30 years later and it is not really germane here but the Yukica firing at Dartmouth was particularly contentious...lawsuits etc. I think that had a lot to do with Yukica never coaching in the college ranks again moreso than his coaching acumen etc

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I think there may be other PL coaches in similar distress--the word on the Fordham boards about Breiner is not encouraging.

And what would have been the heat on Coen heading into last week had Lehigh lost to Colgate?

I agree, Coen's seat would have been very hot had they lost to Colgate. It's amazing to think how close Lehigh was to an 0-6 start, and I'd have written that it was Lehigh's worst start since 1966. That's saying something. Even at 2-5, 2-0 in PL play, it's still pretty warm, though the possibility is very good that they will be facing 4 teams with .500 or worse records in their last four games. But no game is a given with any of these teams. I wouldn't be surprised of any outcome - and yes, before you ask, DFW, that includes a Georgetown winning streak.