JMU To The AAC?

[SU DOG]

Nothing official of course, but interesting conjecture in today's Breeze:

http://www.breezejmu.org/sports/jmu-sports-case-to-join-the-american-athletic-conference/article_4b09c5ae-9f9f-11e7-a15b-fb1c6ae1063e.html

[DirtyDukes]

Meh. ACC or bust. :P

[Serpentor]

I'd hold out for ACC. AAC is like two good teams and the rest are MAC and Sunbelt rejects.

[BisonFan02]

I'd hold out for ACC. AAC is like two good teams and the rest are MAC and Sunbelt rejects.

ACC isn't happening.....

[DFW HOYA]

Institutionally, JMU is a better fit in Conference USA, esp. with Marshall and Old Dominion in the conference. I can't see a lot of interest at SMU or Tulsa to play in Harrisonburg.

That having been said, would the CAA be interested to stay as an 11 team league?

[Professor]

Makes sense but the conference has 12 teams. Would a package deal with Liberty to take them to 14 be in the works

[clenz]

Makes sense but the conference has 12 teams. Would a package deal with Liberty to take them to 14 be in the works
11 Basketball schools

Taking 1 and waiting telling Navy to S or get off the Pot is most likely.

Either join for all sports and become a full 12th OR your contract in football won't be renewed and someone else takes it.

[ElCid]

ACC isn't happening.....

Seriously. Never going to happen. No new teams to ACC unless someone leaves and then it probably would not be JMU simply due to "media market" considerations.

[The Pud]

#fake news

[RootinFerDukes]

The AAC is beneath us. It's SEC or bust baby!

[DFW HOYA]

Taking 1 and waiting telling Navy to S or get off the Pot is most likely.

Either join for all sports and become a full 12th OR your contract in football won't be renewed and someone else takes it.

Didn't work in the Big East, won't work in the AAC.

[ST_Lawson]

The AAC is beneath us. It's SEC or bust baby!

If you're dreaming, might as well dream big. Shoot for the AFC East.

[FUBeAR]

Temple, a "big time player." Who knew?

[RootinFerDukes]

If you're dreaming, might as well dream big. Shoot for the AFC East.

Now it’s just schmoozers, cheaters and the other four teams in that division. We’re better than that.

[ST_Lawson]

Now it’s just schmoozers, cheaters and the other four teams in that division. We’re better than that.

Maybe, but your other option is the NFC East, and do you really want to be in a division with the Eagles?

Then again, you would get your shot at Wentz.

[WestCoastAggie]

Temple, a "big time player." Who knew?

Bill Cosby.

[NY Crusader 2010]

11 Basketball schools

Taking 1 and waiting telling Navy to S or get off the Pot is most likely.

Either join for all sports and become a full 12th OR your contract in football won't be renewed and someone else takes it.

The AAC does not have that kind of leverage over Navy. The academies are a big draw because of the traditions the programs bring and because there are service members all over the conference footprint that want to see the Mids play on the road. I don't know much about the AAC's TV revenue situation but I would assume that Navy certainly adds to the value of that contract due to the increased viewership they bring.

Navy and Army are both better fits for the PL for their non-football sports because of the breadth of sports sponsored by the conference.

On the other side of the same coin, I am sure UConn would LOVE to get out of the AAC for basketball and park their non-football teams in the Big East while remaining in the AAC for football only. But without the AAC, UConn would have nowhere to go for football, so the conference has all the leverage over the school in that case.

[Daytripper]

Moving FBS is the only way they will be able to keep Houston.

[GodHelpTheBears]

The AAC does not have that kind of leverage over Navy. The academies are a big draw because of the traditions the programs bring and because there are service members all over the conference footprint that want to see the Mids play on the road. I don't know much about the AAC's TV revenue situation but I would assume that Navy certainly adds to the value of that contract due to the increased viewership they bring.

Navy and Army are both better fits for the PL for their non-football sports because of the breadth of sports sponsored by the conference.

On the other side of the same coin, I am sure UConn would LOVE to get out of the AAC for basketball and park their non-football teams in the Big East while remaining in the AAC for football only. But without the AAC, UConn would have nowhere to go for football, so the conference has all the leverage over the school in that case.

If UConn cut their football program, they'd be able to move to the Big East, rekindle longstanding rivalries and reinvigorate the fan base.

Football just doesn't work in some places.

[Laker]

Temple, a "big time player." Who knew?

Speaking of Temple- does anyone know the story behind the those alternating stripes on their pants? I asked on Twitter last night but never got an answer.

[DFW HOYA]

Speaking of Temple- does anyone know the story behind the those alternating stripes on their pants? I asked on Twitter last night but never got an answer.

I think it's a nod to their the stripes within their block T. More likely, it's a marketing gimmick along the lines of the argyle pattern for UNC.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/archive/1/17/20161124143321%21Temple_T_logo.svg/105px-Temple_T_logo.svg.png

[PantherRob82]

I didn't realize this was completely hypothetical and not rumors. Boooooring. Save that **** for the off season. :)

[NY Crusader 2010]

If UConn cut their football program, they'd be able to move to the Big East, rekindle longstanding rivalries and reinvigorate the fan base.

Football just doesn't work in some places.

I actually wouldn't be one to give up on football in Storrs at the FBS level. But they really aren't in a secure place in the big-time football landscape. They need to pray ND decides to join the ACC full time and that they get the invite as the 16th member. The fact that UConn has been willing their hoops team hostage in the AAC goes to show how even at a basketball school, football still drives the apple cart because of the TV contracts out there and potential bowl $$$.

Glass half full for them: their men's basketball team has already won one national championship out of the conference. However, it was with players who were recruited to play in the Big East. And for the UConn women, it really doesn't matter what league their in. Whether they play in the AAC, Big East or NEC, they'd just go undefeated and win their games by an average margin of 50+

[veinup]

didn't know JMU had the longest active win streak with 15 wins. made me wonder, what are the longest streaks in FCS history?

[NY Crusader 2010]

NDSU's recent streak has to be the record. 30+ IIRC. Believe UNI ended it.

[RootinFerDukes]

NDSU's recent streak has to be the record. 30+ IIRC. Believe UNI ended it.

Ndsu’s streak of 33 straight from 2012-2014 is the fcs and I believe ncaa record.

[UAalum72]

Ndsu’s streak of 33 straight from 2012-2014 is the fcs and I believe ncaa record.
No, Oklahoma won 47 straight in the 1950s, and I think Washington had an undefeated streak of about 63 including ties.

[woffordgrad94]

Seriously. Never going to happen. No new teams to ACC unless someone leaves and then it probably would not be JMU simply due to "media market" considerations.
Sorry, but I can’t ever imagine a scenario with JMU in the ACC visiting Death Valley in Clemson, SC and coming away with a victory...ever.

[Lorne_Malvo]

Now it’s just schmoozers, cheaters and the other four teams in that division. We’re better than that.

No you're not. :}

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Speaking of Temple- does anyone know the story behind the those alternating stripes on their pants? I asked on Twitter last night but never got an answer.

Just part of out uniforms. They don't symbolize anything. When we wear uniforms with diamonds on the side it's to pay homage to our school's founder, Russell Conwell. He considered Temple an "Acre of Diamonds" when it was founded in 1884.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

JMU would be an interesting add. Just from a logistic standpoint I wouldn't mind since Harrisonburg is a relatively easy drive from Temple. However, JMU is still a regional university in a medium sized state saturated with public D1 athletic programs. So I'm not sure how they would fit in with the massive research institutions that primarily make up the conference.

The AAC has done relatively well all things considered. I think the addition of Wichita State brings some much needed juice to the hoops side. There's no excuse why UConn, Cincinnati, Temple, Wichita State and Memphis can't be the core of an elite hoops league. The biggest issue plaguing the conference in hoops is coaching. Ollie, Dunphy and Tubby leave a lot to be desired. Football is what it is. It will likely alternate with the MWC for the privilege of being the best G5 league. If the AAC can have two Top 25 teams a year and produce a legit Top 10 team here and there that should keep everyone happy. We're well ahead of the SBC and CUSA. The MAC has good teams at the top but the bottom is terrible.

[centennial]

Sorry, but I can’t ever imagine a scenario with JMU in the ACC visiting Death Valley in Clemson, SC and coming away with a victory...ever.

Speaking of Clemson. Coach Klieman has made friends with Dabo Swinney. They have been trading notes, and strategies.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Temple, a "big time player." Who knew?

Due to our location and history in bball we have scheduling power and some pull. Plus, don't forget we were in the Big East for football during it's heyday. We sucked but we had a seat at a big boy table.

Holy Cross fans always complain about "what could have been" but Temple folks can say the thing. We've had an identity crisis for years as well, similar to Rutgers. Some wanted us to remain a regional university that kept ties with the Delaware's, Towson's, George Washington's, Bucknell's, Drexel's, St. Joe's etc of the world while others aspired us to me more like Pitt. As a result we've been in the East Coast Conference, A10, MAC, Big East and AAC. If we could have found a way to dip our toes in the MAAC or America East I'm sure we'd give it a shot. Like the Crusaders we were offered membership into the Big East for bball in the late 70's, early 80's but declined. I think Temple was also offered a chance again in the early 90's when we became an associate football member. Chip might know the details better...

[NorthChuckSouth]

Sorry, but I can’t ever imagine a scenario with JMU in the ACC visiting Death Valley in Clemson, SC and coming away with a victory...ever.

I mean Wofford did almost do it back in 2011

[CHIP72]

Due to our location and history in bball we have scheduling power and some pull. Plus, don't forget we were in the Big East for football during it's heyday. We sucked but we had a seat at a big boy table.

Holy Cross fans always complain about "what could have been" but Temple folks can say the thing. We've had an identity crisis for years as well, similar to Rutgers. Some wanted us to remain a regional university that kept ties with the Delaware's, Towson's, George Washington's, Bucknell's, Drexel's, St. Joe's etc of the world while others aspired us to me more like Pitt. As a result we've been in the East Coast Conference, A10, MAC, Big East and AAC. If we could have found a way to dip our toes in the MAAC or America East I'm sure we'd give it a shot. Like the Crusaders we were offered membership into the Big East for bball in the late 70's, early 80's but declined. I think Temple was also offered a chance again in the early 90's when we became an associate football member. Chip might know the details better...

I can't say I do. The thing I do know is that according to the 2002 book Palestra Pandemonium (a book about the history of the Philadelphia Big Five - it is a very good read and IMO worth picking up if you have any interest in Philadelphia sports or Northeast/Mid-Atlantic college basketball), Temple was the first Philadelphia area school offered a spot in the Big East when that conference formed nearly 40 years ago. Temple turned the invite down because they wanted to be in a league with Penn State; they thought (correctly, both at the time and in the 35+ years since then) that Penn State football would drive the apple cart for the then-Eastern independents that played major college football if those schools formed a conference. For similar reasons, Rutgers also turned down a Big East invite. (Penn State and West Virginia were in rural locations and were not invited to join the league, and big city basketball schools without major football drove the formation of the Big East.) After Temple turned down the Big East's offer, the conference asked Villanova to join and they accepted. (Had Villanova turned down the offer, the Big East would have asked St. Joe's and then presumably La Salle; they just wanted to have a team in the Philadelphia area.) Temple's decision to not join the Big East originally, one that made total sense at that time, has had major, negative repercussions for Temple athletics IMO, and largely benefited Villanova athletics, with the possible exception of Villanova football. (It should be noted that Villanova decided to join the Big East around the time they temporarily dropped their football program; it would be interesting to know what Villanova would have done with that Big East invite had they decided to NOT drop football, and what Villanova's football aspirations would have been. Villanova played at what became the DI-A level at the time they dropped football.) Of course, the Big East's decision to not invite Penn State to join initially and the Eastern independents' decision to not follow Joe Paterno's vision of an all-sports Eastern conference had even bigger repercussions for many, many schools in the Northeast/Mid-Atlantic, with almost all of them (especially the FBS/DI-A playing football schools) eventually coming out on the shorter end of the stick. IMO, only a small number of schools, primarily the basketball-only or basketball-primary schools that have been in the Big East since the 20th century, came out ahead.

I should note that as someone who grew up in the 1980s, which were pretty good days in general for Eastern independent college football (PSU won national titles in 1982 and 1986 and was a perennial contender, Pitt had great teams in the late 1970s and early 1980s, Syracuse was undefeated in 1987 and often had very good teams, West Virginia played for the national title in 1988 and often had very good teams, Boston College had the Doug Flutie years when they were a power, and even Temple had a very good year in 1979), the Big East's shortsighted decision to not invite Penn State, to focus on basketball-only or basketball-primary schools, and the resulting scattering of the Eastern independents in about a half-dozen directions has pissed me off for many, many years. Heck, that fragmenting and my disillusionment with Penn State joining the Midwest-based Flyover Country Conference, I mean Big Ten, ultimately played a role in my increased interest in FCS/DI-AA football starting in the late 2000s. (I paid little attention to college football in the latter half of the 1990s and first half of the 2000s.)

[milleniumkat]

And people talk about SHSU Hubris? lol. SEC? Nah. I know they was just a joke but still.

[DoWe]

I have noticed some JMU fans exhibit the P6 mentality, but I don't think that alone is going to get them an invite.

[DFW HOYA]

Holy Cross fans always complain about "what could have been" but Temple folks can say the thing.

Except Temple's made an effort to get better. Why hasn't HC pushed itself so that it could even be in the conversation with the A-10 or the post-ESPN Big East? Had HC pushed itself in football, it would be playing alongside Delaware and Villanova instead of Bucknell and Lafayette.

If HC had committed to become a legitimate basketball power, there definitely would have been conversations about HC in 2013 for the Big East instead of, say, Butler. There's zero chance that Fox or the Big East are now going to pay interest to a program averaging 1,797 a game.

And FWIW, Temple was never invited to the Big East in 1979--that's urban legend. Rutgers was offered but Temple and St. Joe's definitely were not.

[CHIP72]

And FWIW, Temple was never invited to the Big East in 1979--that's urban legend. Rutgers was offered but Temple and St. Joe's definitely were not.

Long-time NBA executive and then-Philadelphia Big Five Executive Director John Nash contradicts the thought that Temple was not invited to join the Big East for all sports on page 213 (and actually encouraged Villanova to join the conference when VU was asked but had reservations), and Big East founder and long-time Commissioner Dave Gavitt says 1) the Big East did talk to Temple during the league's initial formation but declined to join (along with Rutgers) because they wanted to be in a conference with Penn State, and 2) the league would have invited St. Joe's had Villanova declined the Big East invite on page 214:

When Temple could have joined the Big East for all sports and St. Joe's was next in line after Villanova to be invited to join the conference (https://books.google.com/books?id=V3DTYJ0GYgYC&pg=PA213&lpg=PA213&dq=palestra+pandemonium+temple+big+east&source=bl&ots=aEFGkqVZkv&sig=E52rp0IBSDwRguOzcR3FKmaC-1s&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi62IuQwLvWAhWG4yYKHTDaA-EQ6AEIRDAF#v=onepage&q=palestra%20pandemonium%20temple%20big%20east&f=false)

Incidentally, in the same section Gavitt also says Holy Cross had an opportunity to join the Big East in its early days but declined, so Boston College joined instead.

[DFW HOYA]

Long-time NBA executive and then-Philadelphia Big Five Executive Director John Nash contradicts the thought that Temple was not invited to join the Big East for all sports on page 213, and Big East founder and long-time Commissioner Dave Gavitt says the league would have invited St. Joe's had Villanova declined the Big East invite on page 214:

When Temple could have joined the Big East for all sports and St. Joe's was next in line after Villanova to be invited to join the conference (https://books.google.com/books?id=V3DTYJ0GYgYC&pg=PA213&lpg=PA213&dq=palestra+pandemonium+temple+big+east&source=bl&ots=aEFGkqVZkv&sig=E52rp0IBSDwRguOzcR3FKmaC-1s&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi62IuQwLvWAhWG4yYKHTDaA-EQ6AEIRDAF#v=onepage&q=palestra%20pandemonium%20temple%20big%20east&f=false)

Incidentally, in the same section Gavitt also says Holy Cross had an opportunity to join the Big East in its early days but declined, so Boston College joined instead.

Syracuse's Jake Crouthamel once wrote on this and had a different view on Temple, so we can agree to disagree.

Yes, HC declined the Big East. Rev. Brooks famously said that his college was not in the entertainment business. Pride goes before a fall.

[clenz]

Football just doesn't work in some places.

Yeah. The Northeast.

[Pinnum]

Just part of out uniforms. They don't symbolize anything. When we wear uniforms with diamonds on the side it's to pay homage to our school's founder, Russell Conwell. He considered Temple an "Acre of Diamonds" when it was founded in 1884.

Temple should always wear the Diamonds. When I think of Temple, I think of the Diamond. It is their identity and a powerful brand that they keep ignoring, in my opinion...

[Punchy]

JMU could fit right in the AAC East Division, move Cincinnati, or USF, or UCF to the West Division,,,,,,if JMU moves up, and the AAC accepts them.

[walliver]

With the AAC trying to maintain their "P6" branding, as ridiculous as that is, it would be extremely unlikely they would take a FCS move-up. If they choose to move from FCS, JMU's best bet would be C-USA with a chance to move to the AAC years later.

The ACC already has two teams in Virginia and has no need to pick up a 3d.

If C-USA had a lick of sense, they would dump FAU and FIU and add JMU and App State.

Even if JMU moves to FBS, Mike Houston's days are limited. I see P5 in his future.

[Daytripper]

With the AAC trying to maintain their "P6" branding, as ridiculous as that is, it would be extremely unlikely they would take a FCS move-up. If they choose to move from FCS, JMU's best bet would be C-USA with a chance to move to the AAC years later.

The ACC already has two teams in Virginia and has no need to pick up a 3d.

If C-USA had a lick of sense, they would dump FAU and FIU and add JMU and App State.

Even if JMU moves to FBS, Mike Houston's days are limited. I see P5 in his future.

Texas A&M? Or is that too big of a jump too fast?

[bluehenbillk]

The AAC has no interest in FCS teams. If you want to move up your options are C-USA, Sun Belt & MAC.

[RootinFerDukes]

The AAC has no interest in FCS teams. If you want to move up your options are C-USA, Sun Belt & MAC.

Or bullying the NCAA to give you a waiver since no one will invite you due to how incredibly toxic you are as an institution.

[BNATION]

Your high.


The AAC is beneath us. It's SEC or bust baby!

[Sader87]

We coulda been in the Big East y'know..... x406x

[Longhorn]

JMU would be an interesting add. Just from a logistic standpoint I wouldn't mind since Harrisonburg is a relatively easy drive from Temple. However, JMU is still a regional university in a medium sized state saturated with public D1 athletic programs. So I'm not sure how they would fit in with the massive research institutions that primarily make up the conference.

The AAC has done relatively well all things considered. I think the addition of Wichita State brings some much needed juice to the hoops side. There's no excuse why UConn, Cincinnati, Temple, Wichita State and Memphis can't be the core of an elite hoops league. The biggest issue plaguing the conference in hoops is coaching. Ollie, Dunphy and Tubby leave a lot to be desired. Football is what it is. It will likely alternate with the MWC for the privilege of being the best G5 league. If the AAC can have two Top 25 teams a year and produce a legit Top 10 team here and there that should keep everyone happy. We're well ahead of the SBC and CUSA. The MAC has good teams at the top but the bottom is terrible.

SMU, Houston and Tulsa are "massive research institutions"? Gee, who'd thunk it. xrolleyesx

[Daytripper]

SMU, Houston and Tulsa are "massive research institutions"? Gee, who'd thunk it. xrolleyesx

Not sure about the others, but UH is a Tier One research institution...

http://www.uh.edu/about/tier-one/

[Utgrizfan]

Want to make things simple do this, have JMU and Army join the American Conference and have Navy and Army play in the same Division. Would give the Conference the Army Navy game and a solid team in JMU.

[GodHelpTheBears]

This sounds like that rumor people were spreading that we were moving to C-USA a few years back

[KnightoftheRedFlash]

Want to make things simple do this, have JMU and Army join the American Conference and have Navy and Army play in the same Division. Would give the Conference the Army Navy game and a solid team in JMU.

The AAC isn't taking a FCS team and Army isn't joining a conference any time soon.

[KnightoftheRedFlash]

Or bullying the NCAA to give you a waiver since no one will invite you due to how incredibly toxic you are as an institution.

Actually, Liberty was fighting the good fight. There is no legitimate reason to keep an institution from playing FBS football if they can afford it just because conferences disagree with their views.

[KnightoftheRedFlash]

The AAC has no interest in FCS teams. If you want to move up your options are C-USA, Sun Belt & MAC.

This.

It is not hard to figure out. The AAC is the best of the rest conference.

[HAL_9000]

It would be sad to see JMU leave the FCS fold. However they do spend a TON of money on athletics and their trajectory is looking up.

http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances/

[HAL_9000]

Mr. Moderator,

I used to Be Western_101, with over 80 posts, I stopped posting years ago. Never made an Inflammatory post, you guys just did house cleaning and got rid of dormant posters.

Could you please PM me to advice me how to continue forward to post appropriately.

Thanks, and go FCS!

[HAL_9000]

Well that is funny. Not really what I was intending to contribute. Meh, Well I still think JMU is still positioning for a spot at a bigger table. I don't think I will add any links as maybe that is not advisable.

Anyway I love FCS football. I wonder if the likes of App State (hot hot hot) and Georgia Southern have regrets on going FBS? They used to at least get mentioned once in awhile in National media now it's like they don't exist.

[Utgrizfan]

This.

It is not hard to figure out. The AAC is the best of the rest conference.

Have to disagree there, think its a tie between the Mountain West and the AAC when it comes to the "best of the rest". JMU and Liberty to the Sunbelt would make sense as well, both are Virginia based schools making them the perfect travel partners and are decently close to Costal Carolina

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

SMU, Houston and Tulsa are "massive research institutions"? Gee, who'd thunk it. xrolleyesx

"So I'm not sure how they would fit in with the massive research institutions that primarily make up the conference."

"Primarily" does not mean exclusively....

[PantherRob82]

UNI to the Big 10? We are located in the Midwest, so maybe?!

[KnightoftheRedFlash]

Have to disagree there, think its a tie between the Mountain West and the AAC when it comes to the "best of the rest". JMU and Liberty to the Sunbelt would make sense as well, both are Virginia based schools making them the perfect travel partners and are decently close to Costal Carolina

The MWC is Boise State and not much else.

The AAC has stronger brands.

[BisonTru]

Mr. Moderator,

I used to Be Western_101, with over 80 posts, I stopped posting years ago. Never made an Inflammatory post, you guys just did house cleaning and got rid of dormant posters.

Could you please PM me to advice me how to continue forward to post appropriately.

Thanks, and go FCS!

You might want want to PM ursus I'm not sure he checks every thread. http://www.anygivensaturday.com/private.php?do=newpm&u=2954. That link might work. It looks like your old username is still there with 134 posts.

On posting I'm thankfully not a moderator, but generally things are pretty easy around here. Don't threaten to physically hurt someone else and you should be fine.

[Longhorn]

Not sure about the others, but UH is a Tier One research institution...

http://www.uh.edu/about/tier-one/

UH is not a "tier one" anything except in their own mind, and possibly yours.

[DFW HOYA]

Tier one universities:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_research_universities_in_the_United_States

[Longhorn]

"So I'm not sure how they would fit in with the massive research institutions that primarily make up the conference."

"Primarily" does not mean exclusively....

Fair enough. Then let's examine the use of the phrase "massive research"...the low hanging fruit I first mentioned are definitely not "massive research"schools, but it is also a gross misnomer to describe any of the AAC members as "massive" anything. If the post had used the term "research intensive" or "R1" to describe the majority of the AAC schools then okay, let's move on, but none of the AAC institutions are particularly known for their level of (or focus on) research. For comparison, the Ivy is composed of "massive research" institutions, as are the Big X and PAC. The AAC is composed of just a hodge-podge of institutions who like to think they're something they're not.

FWIW I also think it's absurd to suggest JMU would get an invite to the AAC. For the record, I don't think JMU is going anywhere in the foreseeable future.

[Longhorn]

Tier one universities:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_research_universities_in_the_United_States

The Carnegie designation of what constitutes a "tier one" research institution is subject to debate (and manipulation). A better measure would be the far more selective and limited list of AAU institutions. You won't find UH on that list.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Fair enough. Then let's examine the use of the phrase "massive research"...the low hanging fruit I first mentioned are definitely not "massive research"schools, but it is also a gross misnomer to describe any of the AAC members as "massive" anything. If the post had used the term "research intensive" or "R1" to describe the majority of the AAC schools then okay, let's move on, but none of the AAC institutions are particularly known for their level of (or focus on) research. For comparison, the Ivy is composed of "massive research" institutions, as are the Big X and PAC. The AAC is composed of just a hodge-podge of institutions who like to think they're something they're not.

FWIW I also think it's absurd to suggest JMU would get an invite to the AAC. For the record, I don't think JMU is going anywhere in the foreseeable future.

I was using "massive" in terms of the school's size and enrollment. I think the term "massive" aptly fits. Plus, some of the AAC schools have higher research levels than many of their P5 counterparts. Plenty of academic "mehs" in the P5.

UCF - 66k students, 55k undergrad Space-grant
USF - 48k students, 36k undergrad Space-grant
Cincinnati - 44k students, 33k undergrad Space-grant
Houston - 42k students, 34k undergrad
Temple - 37k students, 28k undergrad
East Carolina - 27k students, 23k undergrad Sea-grant
UConn - 26k students, 19k undergrad Sea-grant, Space-grant, Land-grant

The AAC is fine. In general the schools all fit together given their past and current history. The only "negative" is the geographic makeup of the conference. Temple and UConn are the major outliers. The conference should be a hoops first league but poor coaching at Temple, UConn and Memphis is killing its potential. As for football it is what is it is. It's a tweener conference capable of producing more teams with higher ceilings than CUSA, MAC and SBC but obviously less than the P5. I think for most fan bases in the AAC that's an acceptable reality at this point.

[HAL_9000]

This is proclaimed to be a venue for high minded FCS proponents.

My two points of substance were disallowed and only my request for guidance was posted (I see in hindsight to be mocked)

Is this AGS version of Hazing?

My apologizes for trying to show up at the Barbecue again.



I want to make sure you get your complete worth out of posting this and for some reason (that I asked for help) make sure I look as foolish as possible.

I didn't know I offended anyone, and I'm Ok with not being cool enough to be in your group. I'm still learning my ropes and trying to instill in my son what is important,

However, we still intend to go see the best football ever, at Macomb this Saturday, and that will be fun.

[UNHWildcat18]

Montana to MWC for when UNLV drops football

[Longhorn]

I was using "massive" in terms of the school's size and enrollment. I think the term "massive" aptly fits. Plus, some of the AAC schools have higher research levels than many of their P5 counterparts. Plenty of academic "mehs" in the P5.

UCF - 66k students, 55k undergrad Space-grant
USF - 48k students, 36k undergrad Space-grant
Cincinnati - 44k students, 33k undergrad Space-grant
Houston - 42k students, 34k undergrad
Temple - 37k students, 28k undergrad
East Carolina - 27k students, 23k undergrad Sea-grant
UConn - 26k students, 19k undergrad Sea-grant, Space-grant, Land-grant

The AAC is fine. In general the schools all fit together given their past and current history. The only "negative" is the geographic makeup of the conference. Temple and UConn are the major outliers. The conference should be a hoops first league but poor coaching at Temple, UConn and Memphis is killing its potential. As for football it is what is it is. It's a tweener conference capable of producing more teams with higher ceilings than CUSA, MAC and SBC but obviously less than the P5. I think for most fan bases in the AAC that's an acceptable reality at this point.


I agree many of the AAC schools have "massive" enrollments, but you first used the tag "research" to describe the majority makeup of the AAC, and that was what I was pointing out was a misnomer.

FWIW, ECU and UConn enrollments are not that different than JMU (which sits at 22k this Fall, 20k of whom are undergrads). The biggest difference separating JMU from a typical AAC profile is that JMU does not support professional graduate programs such medicine or law, and isn't likely to anytime within the next couple of decades.

[DFW HOYA]

There's a definite order in the food chain of major college football:

SEC, Big Ten
^^^^^^
Pac 12, Big 12, ACC
^^^^^^
AAC
^^^^^^
Mountain West, MAC
^^^^^^
Conference USA
^^^^^^
Sun Belt

[DFW HOYA]

Montana to MWC for when UNLV drops football

That's not happening with this arrival to the neighborhood.

https://www.reviewjournal.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/web1_raidersrendering1aug25_6889674.jpg

[RootinFerDukes]

There's a definite order in the food chain of major college football:

SEC, Big Ten, Pac 12, ACC
Big 12
A massive chasm of time and space
AAC, Mountain West
MAC, Conference USA, Sun Belt, FCS, D2, D3, NAIA

FIFY

[RootinFerDukes]

That's not happening with this arrival to the neighborhood.

https://www.reviewjournal.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/web1_raidersrendering1aug25_6889674.jpg

I’d say it’ll make it more likely to happen. They managed to find a way to make unlv football even more irrelevant.

[Longhorn]

There's a definite order in the food chain of major college football:

SEC, Big Ten
^^^^^^
Pac 12, Big 12, ACC
^^^^^^
AAC
^^^^^^
Mountain West, MAC
^^^^^^
Conference USA
^^^^^^
Sun Belt

I think that's a fair (and accurate) summation. Money, money, money...big guys get richer, and the little dogs eat the scraps. Or as a friend once put it, the top of the food chain support professional (or at lest semi-pro) football, and FCS is still playing college FB.

[Reign of Terrier]

There's a definite order in the food chain of major college football:

SEC, Big Ten
^^^^^^
Pac 12, Big 12, ACC
^^^^^^
AAC
^^^^^^
Mountain West, MAC
^^^^^^
Conference USA
^^^^^^
Sun Belt

I think you have to put the Big 12 in that top tier. If you look at the attendance numbers/stadium capacities of D1 teams, the biggest ones are in Big 12/Big 10/SEC country. Admittedly, the Big 10 is probably the best league right now (as an SEC fan it pains me to say that), but the Big 12 is comparable to the SEC. I think average stadium capacity and attendance is a good indicator for program significance, success, money, etc.

My personal hypothesis is that SEC/Big 10/Big 12 football is such a big deal because they're in regions where there aren't huge cities to attract pro teams or the pro teams aren't really good. Basically, there's less "bandwidth" for sports and less reason to follow pro teams (because they aren't too good) so there's more passion, money and subsequent success in the college ranks

[Reign of Terrier]

I mean Wofford did almost do it back in 2011

I was there...it was funny (we led at half I think). Clemson is better right now, but this year's JMU team could have given them a better fight than we did. To the general point of whether or not JMU should go FBS, things change fast when you go up to that level. Houston will undoubtedly try to coach somewhere else as he's elevated his profile, and then you have a new coach, new players and new terrain to maneuver and really a ceiling in terms of what you can accomplish. Look at GSU right now. 5 years ago did they anticipate being a laughing stock? Admittedly this is only one (maybe two) bad years as they did win 10 games and a bowl a couple years ago. But really, I don't think it's worth the risk.

[DFW HOYA]

I think you have to put the Big 12 in that top tier. If you look at the attendance numbers/stadium capacities of D1 teams, the biggest ones are in Big 12/Big 10/SEC country. Admittedly, the Big 10 is probably the best league right now (as an SEC fan it pains me to say that), but the Big 12 is comparable to the SEC. I think average stadium capacity and attendance is a good indicator for program significance, success, money, etc.

Average stadium capacity by conference:

SEC: 80,587
Big Ten: 71,846
Big 12: 61,730 (Corrected)
Pac-12: 59,163
ACC: 58,422

-----------------
AAC: 44,748
MWC: 39,420
CUSA: 36,431
Sunbelt: 27,096
MAC: 26,827

[Longhorn]

Average stadium capacity by conference:

SEC: 80,587
Big Ten: 71,846
Pac-12: 59,163
ACC: 58,422
Big 12: 55,730
-----------------
AAC: 44,748
MWC: 39,420
CUSA: 36,431
Sunbelt: 27,096
MAC: 26,827

Please provide a source for your numbers. OU, UT, and TT alone combined stadium capacities would avg. over 80k, so to lower the number to 55.7k seems suspect. A quick check of numbers on wiki would suggest the Big XII avg. is closer to 61-62k.

[DFW HOYA]

Please provide a source for your numbers. OU, UT, and TT alone combined stadium capacities would avg. over 80k, so to lower the number to 55.7k seems suspect. A quick check of numbers on wiki would suggest the Big XII avg. is closer to 61-62k.

Stadium sizes via Wikipedia--it should be 61,730.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NCAA_Division_I_FBS_football_stadiums

[Sitting Bull]

Ridiculous thread.

The AAC - at least at Navy - has cheerleaders running out now with "P6" flags. The last thing a conference is going to do - when their objective is to try and associate themselves as a power conference - is invite an FCS team to join.

[RootinFerDukes]

Ridiculous thread.

The AAC - at least at Navy - has cheerleaders running out now with "P6" flags. The last thing a conference is going to do - when their objective is to try and associate themselves as a power conference - is invite an FCS team to join.

It’s an aac league wide marketing campaign. I can confirm with my own eyes that they ran out with them at the ECU game.
One of the most pathetic things I’ve ever seen. Talk about insecurity.

[CHIP72]

There's a definite order in the food chain of major college football:

SEC, Big Ten
^^^^^^
Pac 12, Big 12, ACC
^^^^^^
AAC
^^^^^^
Mountain West, MAC
^^^^^^
Conference USA
^^^^^^
Sun Belt

I’d flip C-USA and the MAC, and place C-USA below the MWC, which is closer to (but still below) the AAC than C-USA.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[CHIP72]

The AAC is fine. In general the schools all fit together given their past and current history. The only "negative" is the geographic makeup of the conference. Temple and UConn are the major outliers. The conference should be a hoops first league but poor coaching at Temple, UConn and Memphis is killing its potential. As for football it is what is it is. It's a tweener conference capable of producing more teams with higher ceilings than CUSA, MAC and SBC but obviously less than the P5. I think for most fan bases in the AAC that's an acceptable reality at this point.

When talking about all-sport members, Cincinnati and East Carolina aren’t exactly close to anybody either. Really, there is a block of 5 schools in the southwestern part of the conference’s footprint (Memphis, Tulane, Tulsa, SMU, and Houston) that are relatively close to each other, 2 Florida schools (Central Florida and South Florida) that are very close to each other, and 4 schools (Connecticut, Temple, East Carolina, and Cincinnati) that are somewhat close to each other but are located in a part of the country that has many, many schools and high population density, so the schools don’t seem as close as they are.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Sitting Bull]

It’s an aac league wide marketing campaign. I can confirm with my own eyes that they ran out with them at the ECU game.
One of the most pathetic things I’ve ever seen. Talk about insecurity.

Agreed. I don't think half the fans in Annapolis even know what it means (or care).

[The Boogie Down]

Ridiculous thread.

The AAC - at least at Navy - has cheerleaders running out now with "P6" flags. The last thing a conference is going to do - when their objective is to try and associate themselves as a power conference - is invite an FCS team to join.


Great points. I think there are about 7 schools with legit P-5 athletic programs that (for whatever the reasons) missed out on the P-5 conferences. To me, in order of importance those schools are Houston, BYU, UConn, Boise State, Cincy, Memphis and Temple. 5 of those 7 are in the AAC so yeah, they should try to bill themselves as a power conference. And of course they should not be looking for an FCS to join. If anything they should cut the fat by dumping teams that have never passed the P-5 eye test (like East Carolina, Tulane, the Fla schools) and instead try picking up BYU. Poach Boise State and Air Force (as a conference rival for Navy) off the MWC and the AAC would be a legit 6th power.



Agreed. I don't think half the fans in Annapolis even know what it means (or care).

While I do think the AAC is a few changes away from being legit (changes that do not include JMU), Annapolis is way too pretty of a town for most there to care.

[UNHWildcat18]

Institutionally, JMU is a better fit in Conference USA, esp. with Marshall and Old Dominion in the conference. I can't see a lot of interest at SMU or Tulsa to play in Harrisonburg.

That having been said, would the CAA be interested to stay as an 11 team league?

Yes

They wont make divisions with 12 so thats not a reason to get to 12 again also IMO there are no other FCS teams that belong in the CAA unless ODU and UMASS dropped down of course xlolx

[ysubigred]

I maybe a little late to this party, but after seeing JMU up close and personal last year I'd say they'd do well in the ACC in football. Clemson, Louisville and FSU is about it.

Good luck xthumbsupx

[KnightoftheRedFlash]

Ridiculous thread.

The AAC - at least at Navy - has cheerleaders running out now with "P6" flags. The last thing a conference is going to do - when their objective is to try and associate themselves as a power conference - is invite an FCS team to join.

Well said.

I enjoy this board but most of the takes here on FBS football range from absurd to insane asylum worthy. Occasionally, there is a rare ray of clarity.

[RootinFerDukes]

Well said.

I enjoy this board but most of the takes here on FBS football range from absurd to insane asylum worthy. Occasionally, there is a rare ray of clarity.

The referenced article is a speculation piece by the JMU student newspaper. If it upsets anyone, blame the thread's original poster for drawing conclusions that weren't there.

[centennial]

The referenced article is a speculation piece by the JMU student newspaper. If it upsets anyone, blame the thread's original poster for drawing conclusions that weren't there.

I don't think it's upsetting. However, JMU getting in is almost impossible. JMU is probably a fit with the MAC or CUSA. The fake 6 conference will never take a FCS team. They are trying to get a seat at the big boy table.

[uni88]

The MWC is Boise State and not much else.

The AAC has stronger brands.
I think that depends on the year, where you live and how you weigh the factors.

In football, the AAC has schools that have enjoyed some recent or historical success but no one has a strong pedigree. Boise State is the cream of the crop in both conferences. Have the AAC schools been definitively more successful than the MWC schools?

In basketball, UConn, Temple, Cincy, Memphis, Wichita State & Houston have had success but have some slipped since splitting with the Big East? For the MWC, UNLV has been down longer but their history is comparable to UConn's. San Diego State and New Mexico have enjoyed success and had big name coaches as well.

You can make an argument but I don't think it's cut and dried that the AAC is above the MWC.

To the point about the AAC being the 6th power conference, I think it's more likely that the Big 12 slip than the AAC or MWC move up to join those ranks. The Big 12 doesn't appear to be interested in the cream of the AAC. Why would the big boys accept the entire conference into their club?

[fc97]

Yes

They wont make divisions with 12 so thats not a reason to get to 12 again also IMO there are no other FCS teams that belong in the CAA unless ODU and UMASS dropped down of course xlolx

I think there is a group of people that would say Furman is a perfect fit for the CAA.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

This is proclaimed to be a venue for high minded FCS proponents.

My two points of substance were disallowed and only my request for guidance was posted (I see in hindsight to be mocked)

Is this AGS version of Hazing?

My apologizes for trying to show up at the Barbecue again.



I want to make sure you get your complete worth out of posting this and for some reason (that I asked for help) make sure I look as foolish as possible.

I didn't know I offended anyone, and I'm Ok with not being cool enough to be in your group. I'm still learning my ropes and trying to instill in my son what is important,

However, we still intend to go see the best football ever, at Macomb this Saturday, and that will be fun.

Hal, you apparently did not read certain notes given during signup, one of them being that your posts will not show up on the forum UNTIL a moderator reads them and approves them. This is a spam control tool and like it or not there are some hoops to jump through before posting here. I am very glad to have you with us but there are a couple things (like this) that we both have to go through when a new user shows up. I don't like it either, cuz it makes work for me, but it's less work than I'd have to do if this place were allowed to be taken over by spammers.

When you reached 10 posts, you are free and posting from thre on will not need to be moderated and it will show up instantly.

I removed your personal information from this post. You do not need to put out there to anyone on here what your actual name is and i would rather you did not do this until you know who all you are dealing with around here. xlolx

If you have any questions, please pm me.

[BisonTru]

This is proclaimed to be a venue for high minded FCS proponents.

My two points of substance were disallowed and only my request for guidance was posted (I see in hindsight to be mocked)

Is this AGS version of Hazing?

My apologizes for trying to show up at the Barbecue again.



I want to make sure you get your complete worth out of posting this and for some reason (that I asked for help) make sure I look as foolish as possible.

I didn't know I offended anyone, and I'm Ok with not being cool enough to be in your group. I'm still learning my ropes and trying to instill in my son what is important,

However, we still intend to go see the best football ever, at Macomb this Saturday, and that will be fun.

WTF???

I wasn't mocking you dude. I literally was trying to help you get in contact with the guy that could answer your questions. I'm not sure why you are posting this stuff in this thread anyway, but I would guess many posters outside of the CAA guys are not paying that much attention to this thread.

Just trying to help man. It's just the interwebs. Relax and have a good time. We're always looking for good FCS posters to join the discussions.

[katss07]

If the AAC was looking to expand, I'm sure they woulf take a look at App St or Troy before JMU. Both are better programs in general, despite the Dukes' recent on field success.

[RootinFerDukes]

If the AAC was looking to expand, I'm sure they woulf take a look at App St or Troy before JMU. Both are better programs in general, despite the Dukes' recent on field success.

Troy? Hahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahshahahahababah aha

[ursus arctos horribilis]

You might want want to PM ursus I'm not sure he checks every thread. http://www.anygivensaturday.com/private.php?do=newpm&u=2954. That link might work. It looks like your old username is still there with 134 posts.

On posting I'm thankfully not a moderator, but generally things are pretty easy around here. Don't threaten to physically hurt someone else and you should be fine.

This post would have actually gotten the message to me and I could have helped sooner so this was not mocking, it was helping btw.

Now, we'll let this JMU get back on track I guess

[SU DOG]

The referenced article is a speculation piece by the JMU student newspaper. If it upsets anyone, blame the thread's original poster for drawing conclusions that weren't there.

I guess you are referencing me as the original poster. I sure don't have a dog in this. I stated that it was NOTHING OFFICIAL, but was interesting conjecture. My only other text was the link. I fail to see where I drew ANY conclusions????

[kdinva]

Troy? Hahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahshahahahababah aha

Ed Orgeron laughing too....... xpissedx

[kdinva]

I guess you are referencing me as the original poster. I sure don't have a dog in this. I stated that it was NOTHING OFFICIAL, but was interesting conjecture. My only other text was the link. I fail to see where I drew ANY conclusions????

someone in harrisonburg needs a hug...... xhugx

[Laker]

I think there is a group of people that would say Furman is a perfect fit for the CAA.

I saw this on Twitter and had to laugh out loud.

Kiecker Law Office‏ @kieckerlaw (https://twitter.com/kieckerlaw) Aug 28 (https://twitter.com/kieckerlaw/status/902157052390334465)More



Random Legal Fact: The drinking age on Furman University campus is 60 years old.

[CHIP72]

If the AAC was looking to expand, I'm sure they woulf take a look at App St or Troy before JMU. Both are better programs in general, despite the Dukes' recent on field success.

The AAC would be much more likely to look at Western Kentucky and/or Southern Mississippi than at Appalachian State or especially Troy if it looked to expand IMO.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[OhioHen]

Tier one universities:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_research_universities_in_the_United_States

Interesting to see that schools like Florida International and Georgia State are tier one but Dartmouth is tier two.

[DirtyDukes]

If the AAC was looking to expand, I'm sure they woulf take a look at App St or Troy before JMU. Both are better programs in general, despite the Dukes' recent on field success.

Hey, The Pud!

[walliver]

Interesting to see that schools like Florida International and Georgia State are tier one but Dartmouth is tier two.

Carnegie is a classification, not a ranking of any sort. Carnegie classification has little to do with academic merit, and more to do with how many PhD's you print.

[The Boogie Down]

The AAC would be much more likely to look at Western Kentucky and/or Southern Mississippi than at Appalachian State or especially Troy if it looked to expand IMO.


WKU/Sthn Miss would better fits than App St/Troy which would probably be better fits than JMU but if the AAC really wanted to look like a "Power 6" they'd pass on all of the above and instead go after BYU.