SoCon Game Day Experience

[The Cats]

Just trying to get a read on which stadium/fans provide the best game day experience in the SoCon.

Not looking for the best team, but the best game day experience when you travel to that location. Take into consideration parking, availability and quality of tailgating, food in the stadiums, treatment from the home fans for the "visitors", etc.

[citdog]

It's The Citadel and it really isn't fair to the others to compare them.

[FUBeAR]

Who knows?

CIT is now playing in 1/2 a Stadium with a beer tent on the other side & looking at converting it to condo's or a strip mall with a FroYo, a Verizon store, and a yoga studio...or something like that. Right? No SoCon Teams have played there yet...but we do know the pee wall is gone. That's a HUGE loss!!

...and no SoCon Team has yet visited ETSU's new facility. How can anyone fairly assess that?

FUBeAR abstains at this time.

[woffordgrad94]

For once I agree with Citdog. The Citadel hands down.

[CID1990]

I've been to most of the venues on game day.

Back in my day, it was normal to have between 15,000 to 20,000 and more than 20,000 at least once or twice in a season.

We've dropped way off, but so has everybody else. App State had a better game day atmo but it was close. Now that they're gone I don't think anybody comes close. I think if Mercer starts winning they might draw a more consistent, bigger crowd. But unless Mercer moves to Virginia Highlands in Hotlanta they will always have the Macon environs. Nobody beats Charleston for that after game experience

But for now its us and that's not a homer vote

And yes the loss of the General Micah Jenkins Memorial Pisswall was a tragedy


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[FUBeAR]

Since App was mentioned, I know which current or former SoCon school was the absolute worst visiting fan experience - GaSou in Stinkburro. AWFUL!!! The only redeeming thing I found in my 1 & only (please Lord, don't ever make me go again!) visit there is that Savannah is only an hour away.

I imagine Marshall sucked too, but I have never visited there as a fan, so I couldn't say...other than to say Huntington seemed like the most depressing place on earth & their ridiculously drunken fans were actually pretty funny...as long as they stayed on their side of the wall & I had a helmet.

[walliver]

I don't think anybody has a real first class game day experience for visitors.

El Cid probably is the best of the bunch, but that is primarily because it is in Charleston. Once the game starts, it is pretty much a generic game: no band (common in the SoCon and even schools with bands sometimes have less than energetic bands).

[Catamount87]

Excellent question and topic. Here's been my (limited) experience.

UTC - Went there as an undergrad, so my experience is dated. It was unimpressive at that time.
ETSU - See UTC above.
Furman - Went back when they were a top FCS program. It was a "wine and cheese" type crowd nothing really all that exciting. Parking was decent.
Mercer - One trip was 2015. They gave us great parking, crowd was friendly, food in the stadium was decent, overall atmosphere was good. I ran into Coach Lamb on my way to will call, he made sure we found it and graciously thanked us for coming down.
Samford - Yet to visit
The Citadel - Nice parking for visitors, yucky path into the visitors side which itself was atrocious, friendly fans with a lot of tailgating going on, typical drab stadium food
VMI - good but limited parking, easy access to the stadium, great little town that's welcoming, small but good visitors side, typical stadium food, VMI fans tended to stay to themselves
Wofford - still on my list to visit
WCU - well I am a WCU grad and season ticket holder but I'll try to be objective. Good to great parking, lots of tailgating (several really large scale tailgating parties) party type atmosphere, student tailgating is right next to the stadium, typical stadium food. I think our fans are welcoming and I've always tried to be that towards visitors.

That all said the best game days I have experienced have been Mercer, The Citadel and WCU.

Two past SoCon members were mentioned, App State and GSU. App State with their big crowds made for a dynamic environment. But parking was horrible and far away, fans weren't all that welcoming and honestly a bit snotty, food was typical stadium fare. GSU, well the only good thing I can say about it is that Savannah isn't far away. It was hands down the worst.

[tenNesseeCat]

Yes I'm the homer pick for WCU. Mainly because I've had a lot of good times at games in Cullowhee. UTC is the only other SoCon venue I've visited. It was very vanilla, but some very nice people gave us free tickets even though we were in WCU garb. I plan on visiting other SoCon venues, with The Citadel and Mercer being high on that list. I've been to WCU, Duke, Wake, UTC, ETSU at Bristol, and UT, and I'd rank them in that order. If you take into account the setting, band, food, tailgating, game, traffic, attendance, and fans, I have to rank WCU up there from my experiences. Granted I have a much larger sample from Cullowhee to judge. To me, it's hard to beat sitting your fold up chair in Cullowhee creek, with a cold brew during hot, early season games. Or the fall colors you can see during mid-season games. Traffic is usually not bad, tailgating is solid, attendance is usually good, and no one can touch our halftime show. I'll also add, that I'm no fan of urban settings for football games. Too much traffic, too much you can drink here, but not here or there, too much $ spent at bars, and too much time wasted waiting on a drink at the bar. I like my cooler with legal and illegal contents, the illegal being better than anything you can buy a shot of at the bar. I think a lot of this is probably a personal preference, but it's fun talking about it.

[ElCid]

I don't think anybody has a real first class game day experience for visitors.

El Cid probably is the best of the bunch, but that is primarily because it is in Charleston. Once the game starts, it is pretty much a generic game: no band (common in the SoCon and even schools with bands sometimes have less than energetic bands).

No Band? We have a great band who has actually started playing again after so many years of just sitting there so some nasty crappy music could be broadcast through the speaker system. Heck they even broke out 5-0 and had the bulldogs surfing on the boards during the Newberry game. No, we have a band.

[Cat-in-GA]

UTC - The parking lots seemed full of people tailgating, which made the pregame feel like a college football game. The stadium itself was nice, but not in a nice part of town. The experience suffers from the stadium not being on campus. I hope this year that the train whistle doesn't blow so often.
ETSU - ?
Furman - Very light attendance by the home team, which made it feel like going to a private high school football game.
Mercer - Nice campus. Great facility. Good parking. Decent crowd.
Samford - Very light attendance by the home team, which made it feel like going to a private high school game.
The Citadel - I love going to Charleston. The WCU tailgate was a long way from the stadium, so I didn't like where we parked. The visitor side of the stadium was old and run down. The Citadel's crowd was enthusiastic. I'm sure that when the renovations are complete it will be a great, all around experience.
VMI - Hate the drive to VMI. Did not like the stadium.
Wofford - Nice facilities. Nice parking. I liked watching the kids slide down the hill on a pretty fall afternoon. Made me wish I was 10 years old again.
WCU - From my perspective, I think the game time atmosphere is great. The crowd size is good and the band adds to the feel of it being a college gameday. I can imagine that parking is difficult for the away team fans, and that those who want to spend the night in the area have a difficult time finding rooms.

[ElCid]

Well, I was going to try and go to Johnson City this Saturday. It is right at 100 miles from my house. Really wanted to see the new digs the Bucs have. But I have been overruled. Now I have to go back to Charleston and see if my mother in law's house had any damage from Irma. Arrgh! Another ESPN3 game! Double Arrrrgh!

[tenNesseeCat]

I can imagine that parking is difficult for the away team fans, and that those who want to spend the night in the area have a difficult time finding rooms.

I've never had to walk more than about 5 minutes to the stadium/tailgate. I've taken the cat bus thing twice, and waited longer for that ride than the walk would have been. Hotels shouldn't be a concern unless they are looking for them in Cullowhee. Rental houses/cabins are the way to go. I've never been, but I know some people who love to stay up in the Bear Lake Reserve. Others get a different cabin every year for homecoming. I've always told people, if you need a flashing neon light to find things, then WCU ain't for you. As I'm sure you know, a lot of the stuff worth seeing around Cullowhee is off the well beaten path. I've taken people to panthertown, and they look at you like they're going to another country.

[ElCid]

I've never had to walk more than about 5 minutes to the stadium/tailgate. I've taken the cat bus thing twice, and waited longer for that ride than the walk would have been. Hotels shouldn't be a concern unless they are looking for them in Cullowhee. Rental houses/cabins are the way to go. I've never been, but I know some people who love to stay up in the Bear Lake Reserve. Others get a different cabin every year for homecoming. I've always told people, if you need a flashing neon light to find things, then WCU ain't for you. As I'm sure you know, a lot of the stuff worth seeing around Cullowhee is off the well beaten path. I've taken people to panthertown, and they look at you like they're going to another country.

When I went up there a few years ago, we had to park out across the highway. Last year I got there early and had a spot pretty close. Not a bad set up and the view is awesome.

[Reign of Terrier]

I picked Citadel, and there were some solid reasons for doing so:

>solid gameday attendance, easily higher than everyone else
> Student involvement (helps that they're forced to go)
> The aesthetic (love it or hate it)
> It's in Charleston, which is probably better for randos to attend a game.

Wofford's problems with attendance are well known, but part of that has been a logistical thing beyond just low student/alumni numbers. Recently we tore down our new frat row and built a new one across the street from campus (we also built a new basketball arena and created a new parking lot). Before, the problem with our game days was that there wasn't a good space for everyone to congregate, tailgate, etc. We always had the alumni lots (which anyone who has gone to a Wofford game has walked by or seen), but the students didn't have a good place to gather to "be students" that wasn't on the other side of campus. Now we have the new fraternity houses across the street from the stadium by the alumni lots (note: Wofford is like 50% Greek, if you couldn't deduce that from CitDog's bow tie comments). Provided we're good, I imagine that will cultivate more campus involvement around football game attendance. It'll take a long time before we can conclusively say that's happened

[Milktruck74]

This poll is much like asking who has the best smelling fart, everybody likes their own brand. However, I have experienced most SoCon stadiums as a player, and a bunch as a fan. I think the Military schools have a bit of an advantage by requiring the corps to attend (often times the stands are empty in the second half when they are allowed to leave though). I think the Administrations of all the schools realize they are competing with lots of other stuff (TV games, family time, kids soccer games, beer drinking, etc) so they are trying to make the pregame an event. I'm happy to say (while it was called Vanilla), the atmosphere at Chattanooga is DRASTICALLY improved from my time as a player. I think the city over built Finley (20k+) in hopes of filling it for other things, but a 12k stadium would completely change the feel in the stadium on game day. Chattanooga is moving in the right direction, but there is still a long way to go.

[Catamount87]

For those that might be curious, home attendance numbers for 2014-2016 (sorry I only started tracking 3 years ago out of curiosity)




3 year total
3 year avg


Citadel
181127
10,730


Chat
178755
9,931


Mercer
177508
10,569


WCU
160066
10,036


Wofford
110888
7,426


Furman
101828
6,789


Samford
94767
5,592


ETSU*
83036
5,061


VMI
79747
5,411




What about change in average attendance between 2014-2016?

Furman's change is easily explained because of the dumpster fire in Greenville. Wofford had down years in '14 and '15. But Chatty? Really what's up with that?




2014 Avg
2015 Avg
2016 Avg
Change


Citadel
9505
10678
12005
2500


Mercer
10000
10339
11369
1368


WCU
9525
10119
10465
940


VMI
5263
4778
6191
928


ETSU*

7128
8053
925


Samford
5336
5544
5897
561


Wofford
7764
7007
7506
-258


Chat
10147
10152
9494
-652


Furman
7800
6795
5771
-2029

[The Cats]

Still hoping some fans of other schools outside the SoCon, that might have played some SoCon schools will add their 2-cents, as well. PC, GWU, CSU, & Liberty (I'm sure there are others as well) has played several SoCon schools over the years.

[Reign of Terrier]

For those that might be curious, home attendance numbers for 2014-2016 (sorry I only started tracking 3 years ago out of curiosity)




3 year total
3 year avg


Citadel
181127
10,730


Chat
178755
9,931


Mercer
177508
10,569


WCU
160066
10,036


Wofford
110888
7,426


Furman
101828
6,789


Samford
94767
5,592


ETSU*
83036
5,061


VMI
79747
5,411




What about change in average attendance between 2014-2016?

Furman's change is easily explained because of the dumpster fire in Greenville. Wofford had down years in '14 and '15. But Chatty? Really what's up with that?




2014 Avg
2015 Avg
2016 Avg
Change


Citadel
9505
10678
12005
2500


Mercer
10000
10339
11369
1368


WCU
9525
10119
10465
940


VMI
5263
4778
6191
928


ETSU*

7128
8053
925


Samford
5336
5544
5897
561


Wofford
7764
7007
7506
-258


Chat
10147
10152
9494
-652


Furman
7800
6795
5771
-2029




On a strictly mathematical point, the only trends that are statistically significant are Citadel, Mercer and Furman. Even so, I think attendance numbers are all permanently screwed because a lot of times they count season ticket holders (even if they aren't in attendance) in the tallies.

With respect to Mercer, for instance, I don't think they were close to filling their stadium based upon the ESPN 3 feed, yet the attendance number seemed to say otherwise.

I'm not picking on Mercer here (Wofford and other schools do it too), I just think they illustrate the problem the best because (and I could be wrong about this, so feel free to check my math) they continuously list their attendance above 10k when that's about what their stadium seats. Yet whenever I see an ESPN3 game they aren't close to filled.

[JSUSoutherner]

This poll is much like asking who has the best smelling fart, everybody likes their own brand. However, I have experienced most SoCon stadiums as a player, and a bunch as a fan. I think the Military schools have a bit of an advantage by requiring the corps to attend (often times the stands are empty in the second half when they are allowed to leave though). I think the Administrations of all the schools realize they are competing with lots of other stuff (TV games, family time, kids soccer games, beer drinking, etc) so they are trying to make the pregame an event. I'm happy to say (while it was called Vanilla), the atmosphere at Chattanooga is DRASTICALLY improved from my time as a player. I think the city over built Finley (20k+) in hopes of filling it for other things, but a 12k stadium would completely change the feel in the stadium on game day. Chattanooga is moving in the right direction, but there is still a long way to go.
Could just have every home game be vs. JSU so we can fill it for you. xthumbsupx

[FUBeAR]

On a strictly mathematical point, the only trends that are statistically significant are Citadel, Mercer and Furman. Even so, I think attendance numbers are all permanently screwed because a lot of times they count season ticket holders (even if they aren't in attendance) in the tallies.

With respect to Mercer, for instance, I don't think they were close to filling their stadium based upon the ESPN 3 feed, yet the attendance number seemed to say otherwise.

I'm not picking on Mercer here (Wofford and other schools do it too), I just think they illustrate the problem the best because (and I could be wrong about this, so feel free to check my math) they continuously list their attendance above 10k when that's about what their stadium seats. Yet whenever I see an ESPN3 game they aren't close to filled.

Mercer's Attendance numbers vs. Visuals are misleading due to 3 factors which affect Attendance #'s vs. Appearance

1) I'm 99% sure Mercer counts paid attendance for their reported attendance...and they have a lot of season ticket holders who don't always show...or don't show early...or don't stay for the whole game...or some combination of those things....So this makes the attendance number inflated to X degree AND plays into the 'visuals' described in #2 below

2) Those berms hold A LOT of people. Thousands...and some people like sitting on the berms...(I'm one of them)...and Mercer has A TON of room to stand on each side of the home side and behind the visitors side with fantastic sight lines to the game. YOU DON'T HAVE TO SIT IN YOUR SEAT TO WATCH THE GAME...at all. Honestly, almost every game, there are thousands of rear ends there that are NOT sitting on all that silver aluminum you see on TV.

3) ESPN Cameras almost always show the Home Side....yet the Visitors Side is where the Students and the Band sit and are totally PACKED IN....you don't (usually) see that on TV.


...Oh, and all of y'all that have been to 1, maybe 2 games there...can waste your keystrokes and come back with some snide BS if you want to about what you saw the 1 time you were there....I've been there almost every game since 2013...I think I only missed ETSU last year....BELOW are the 2 SIMPLE truths about Mercer Football Attendance.

1) There are always fewer ACTUAL people IN ATTENDANCE than reported. They paid. They just didn't come. This number varies and is 'allowable' by NCAA standards.
2) There are ALWAYS MANY more people there than it LOOKS LIKE are there. They just aren't sitting in 'assigned seats.'

NOW - My 'issue' with the Mercer Crowd in not the numbers. It is that they just don't know HOW much of an impact they can have on the outcome of these close games that they have (way too frequently, sat quietly & ) watched the Bears lose. Engagement is a popular term these days....and Football Fans DO have an opportunity to affect the outcome of SOME games...if they are FULLY ENGAGED. They have some work to do in this regard down in Maconga. I think they will though....soon. It's past time to use the almost limitless creativity I have seen down there for the past 5 years and create a TRUE HOME FIELD ADVANTAGE for the Bears. Fantastic Facility; now use it to ASSIST in winning more games.

[PaladinFan]

Could just have every home game be vs. JSU so we can fill it for you. xthumbsupx

One of my favorite memories of Furman football is watching Jacksonville State's big band show up to Furman late in the post season, file in for 20 minutes, and watch Furman whip their team for a few hours.

[JSUSoutherner]

One of my favorite memories of Furman football is watching Jacksonville State's big band show up to Furman late in the post season, file in for 20 minutes, and watch Furman whip their team for a few hours.

It was back when Cap'n Jack was in charge so they were probably used to it.

[Milktruck74]

Could just have every home game be vs. JSU so we can fill it for you. xthumbsupx
But then we would have to deal
With a bunch of chicken farmers and the smell from your ladies......pass!!!!!

[Bucs2016]

It's The Citadel and it really isn't fair to the others to compare them.

Its no secret I enjoy trolling The Citadel.

However as an honest Baptist man...I must agree. There is no gameday experience that can top The Citadel in the SoCon.

Huge stadium by FCS standards. Massive video board. Cannons. Great view on the river and located in historic downtown Charleston, voted #1 tourist city in America by several publications. You can wake up and do a morning at the beach, take in a high energy atmosphere at the game l, walk downtown for world class food and have drinks at one of the countless bars with arguably to hottest women in all of the South.

No offense to other SoCon locales. Im sure they're excellent. But gameday at The Citadel cant be topped by any other in the SoCon. When App was in it Id argue it would be a close contest because I love Boone in the fall.

[PaladinFan]

It was back when Cap'n Jack was in charge so they were probably used to it.

Old Jack "rush three men against Ingle Martin inside the Five" Crow?

[tenNesseeCat]

I love Boone

I'd say go see a doctor, but there ain't no helpin that sad condition.

[Catamount87]

2) There are ALWAYS MANY more people there than it LOOKS LIKE are there. They just aren't sitting in 'assigned seats.'

NOW - My 'issue' with the Mercer Crowd in not the numbers. It is that they just don't know HOW much of an impact they can have on the outcome of these close games that they have (way too frequently, sat quietly & ) watched the Bears lose. Engagement is a popular term these days....and Football Fans DO have an opportunity to affect the outcome of SOME games...if they are FULLY ENGAGED. They have some work to do in this regard down in Maconga. I think they will though....soon. It's past time to use the almost limitless creativity I have seen down there for the past 5 years and create a TRUE HOME FIELD ADVANTAGE for the Bears. Fantastic Facility; now use it to ASSIST in winning more games.

My one and only visit to Mercer this was something a group of us talked about. It is crazy how many people are up and just standing around in the concourse areas, even watching the game from up there rather than their seats. The Mercer fans that sat next to me only occasionally occupied their seats. Why, they told me they liked watching from the rail on the concourse because the view was better. I couldn't argue with them, that extra 8-10 feet of elevation made a world of difference in seeing the field. The view from the Mercer stadium concourse is excellent IMHO, at least from the 'visitors' side.

[Reign of Terrier]

literally the only thing that makes me regret ranking the Citadel #1 is those goddamn cannons

[ElCid]

literally the only thing that makes me regret ranking the Citadel #1 is those goddamn cannons

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=26046&stc=1
http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=26046&stc=1

[JSUSoutherner]

Old Jack "rush three men against Ingle Martin inside the Five" Crow?
Yeah that one.

[Toby]

I haven't been to every stadium (lacking ETSU and Citadel) yet, but have a few observations.
UTC - Easy access, very tailgate friendly, good crowd, great city; But large stadium is probably a negative for atmosphere
VMI - Not very tailgate friendly, long drive a negative, beautiful town, love watching the Keydets, fun atmosphere, the 45 minute wait at halftime for concessions the biggest negative
WCU - Great halftime and band! but quite a few fans leave after the band finishes, tailgate friendly for visitors, beautiful drive, very good atmosphere
Furman - Beautiful campus, tailgate friendly, small crowd, downtown Greenville is great
Wofford - small crowd, not easy to tailgate (I have no idea why because there is plenty of space), visitor access to stadium is difficult due to closed and locked gates/fences on visitor side. Probably my worst experience at any SoCon stadium
Samford - OK city, beautiful campus, tailgate friendly, easy access, disappointing crowd and ALL students leave at halftime.

[Reign of Terrier]

I haven't been to every stadium (lacking ETSU and Citadel) yet, but have a few observations.
UTC - Easy access, very tailgate friendly, good crowd, great city; But large stadium is probably a negative for atmosphere
VMI - Not very tailgate friendly, long drive a negative, beautiful town, love watching the Keydets, fun atmosphere, the 45 minute wait at halftime for concessions the biggest negative
WCU - Great halftime and band! but quite a few fans leave after the band finishes, tailgate friendly for visitors, beautiful drive, very good atmosphere
Furman - Beautiful campus, tailgate friendly, small crowd, downtown Greenville is great
Wofford - small crowd, not easy to tailgate (I have no idea why because there is plenty of space), visitor access to stadium is difficult due to closed and locked gates/fences on visitor side. Probably my worst experience at any SoCon stadium
Samford - OK city, beautiful campus, tailgate friendly, easy access, disappointing crowd and ALL students leave at halftime.

If you came three years ago, a lot has changed. if you came last year, a lot of that has to do with the construction of the new basketball arena. It's cleared up now.

[Catamount87]

WCU - Great halftime and band! but quite a few fans leave after the band finishes, tailgate friendly for visitors, beautiful drive, very good atmosphere


It looks like that's a trend that's been waning a bit each game and year for the last 3 years. Having successful years in 2014 and 2015 helped, especially with student retention in the stands. Last year folks held out hope as the season wore on. This year hopefully will see a return to winning and even more fans staying.

[BlackNGoldR3v0lut10n]

I went to two past (App State) and present (ETSU) SoCon schools. I have never ventured out to any other conference school during my time at either school. ETSU's gameday experience back then was well-documented. App State's gameday experience was significantly better. From what I can gather from ETSU, their gameday experience is significantly improved (I am an ETSU alum so there). Because of my lack of experience visiting the other schools, I can't speak for the other schools but I will take my fellow posters' word for it.

[Toby]

If you came three years ago, a lot has changed. if you came last year, a lot of that has to do with the construction of the new basketball arena. It's cleared up now.

That is good to hear. Two suggestions:
1. Have a designated spot for visiting tailgaters, most schools do.
2. Unlock the gate/fence from the visitor side that goes to the visitors' locker room. Otherwise, you have to walk completely around the stadium or wait 20 minutes for the security guard to let you on the ten feet of field that goes to the visitors' locker room. Parents only get a couple of minutes to say hi/good game/tough game to their kids before they shower and hop on the bus. Wofford makes this a nightmare which leads to some unhappy mamas. And when mama's not happy, nobody is happy......

[citdog]

That is good to hear. Two suggestions:
1. Have a designated spot for visiting tailgaters, most schools do.
2. Unlock the gate/fence from the visitor side that goes to the visitors locker room. Otherwise, you have to walk completely around the stadium or wait 20 minutes for the security guard to let you on the ten feet of field that goes to the visitors' locker room. Parents only get a couple of minutes to say hi/good game/tough game to their kids before they shower and hop on the bus. Wofford makes this a nightmare which leads to some unhappy mamas. And when mamas not happy, nobody is happy......

Why not hand out orange slices and hugs at the half too?

[Reign of Terrier]

That is good to hear. Two suggestions:
1. Have a designated spot for visiting tailgaters, most schools do.
2. Unlock the gate/fence from the visitor side that goes to the visitors' locker room. Otherwise, you have to walk completely around the stadium or wait 20 minutes for the security guard to let you on the ten feet of field that goes to the visitors' locker room. Parents only get a couple of minutes to say hi/good game/tough game to their kids before they shower and hop on the bus. Wofford makes this a nightmare which leads to some unhappy mamas. And when mama's not happy, nobody is happy......

1. We do. It's just that it was used for construction purposes last season. All fixed up now.
2. I have no idea how the logistics of meeting up with team members pre/postgame is. I think in the future (no idea what year your kid is) if you email Wofford administration beforehand and say who you are, they would be compliant. It's a small campus and we fall short on in terms of logistics we make up for with personal availability and flexibility

[NorthChuckSouth]

I've been to WCU (years ago when my oldest brother was recruited in the late 90's), Wofford, Furman, and the Citadel. I went to a good amount of citadel games in the mid 2000's (before my dislike for the dogs began) becasue my middle brother was a cadet. Watching the cadets march in is pretty cool even though you have all the geezers are shouting how easy the cadets have it now. Overall it's a pretty cool experience, I tip my hat with a little bit of cringe.



Go Bucs

[FUBeAR]

If you came three years ago, a lot has changed. if you came last year, a lot of that has to do with the construction of the new basketball arena. It's cleared up now.

i can confirm this. Toby is spot on regarding the visitors' experience at Wofford in 2014 - Parking Nazi's in Full Force. 2016 & 2017 visits there were great, except for the scores. Visitor-friendly Parking peeps - great Tailgate locations. BIG UPGRADE!!! THANKS!!! Now...how 'bout showin' a little of that hospitality ON THE FIELD!!!!

EDIT - No idea if they've 'fixed' the post-game Family Meet-up situation. It REALLY did SUCK....just like citdog can do on those...ORANGE Slices!

[Toby]

i can confirm this. Toby is spot on regarding the visitors' experience at Wofford in 2014 - Parking Nazi's in Full Force. 2016 & 2017 visits there were great, except for the scores. Visitor-friendly Parking peeps - great Tailgate locations. BIG UPGRADE!!! THANKS!!! Now...how 'bout showin' a little of that hospitality ON THE FIELD!!!!

EDIT - No idea if they've 'fixed' the post-game Family Meet-up situation. It REALLY did SUCK....just like citdog can do on those...ORANGE Slices!

Actually at my second visit, we climbed over the fence and rolled down the hill. :) What I should have done was borrow one of those card board sleds that the kids use in the end zone. I sure wasn't going to wait 20 minutes again for the security guards.

One thing I will give Wofford props for is letting you leave the stadium at halftime and thencome back in. Several others won't let you.

[CID1990]

It's sad a bit really - that we still rank at or near the top for game day atmo - for someone who attended those games in the 1980s when we had Navy come in, or Marshall in 92, or fermun in 1990.... JHS with over 20,000 rowdy fans was a sight and a sound to behold

And the cannon crew of old .... the cadets lined up with those muskets, firing in echelon, leading up to the BOOM of those old cannons...

Today it is all less... still great, but less.

[Mocs123]

I have only been to Chattanooga (obviously), Samford, and App when they were still in the SoCon, so I can't really say. I will say that games at Western, Mercer, The Citadel, and now ETSU are on my radar. All except Charleston are a reasonable drive, but I think The Citadel would have a good game day atmosphere.

Chattanooga has a beautiful facility and the southside area isn't the best part of town but getting better (the $$$ condo's keep creeping that way). Stadium food continues to get better and there are several good restaurants now within walking distance of the stadium. I park in the reserved lot so I can't say much about parking, though my neighbor was going to a game last year and turned around and went back home because he couldn't find a parking spot close enough (They go to a lot of games for a particular SEC school and I shutter to think how far away they have to park there) xsmhx The First Tennessee Pavilion is a very nice tailgating location.

The negitives to me are we have a ~23K stadium with ~10K people there so it doesn't look full at all. Our band has gotten so small it is pathetic, the student section is always empty, our scoreboard is in desperate need of a facelift, and perhaps most of all, our fans tend to sit on our hands. A couple of years ago, my family was standing up, in a tie ballgame in the 4th qtr and staduim security came over to tell us that fans behind us had complained that they couldn't see and we had to sit down. It's hard to have a great game day atmosphere like that.

[kdinva]

I haven't been to every stadium (lacking ETSU and Citadel) yet, but have a few observations.
VMI - Not very tailgate friendly, long drive a negative, beautiful town, love watching the Keydets, fun atmosphere, the 45 minute wait at halftime for concessions the biggest negative


VMI is limited regarding close parking & tailgating areas.....when the I was founded in 1839, these things not quite on the agenda......and what is negative about Lexington? A typical, quaint, Southern small town....lots of history, architechture....

[kdinva]

A couple of years ago, my family was standing up, in a tie ballgame in the 4th qtr and stadium security came over to tell us that fans behind us had complained that they couldn't see and we had to sit down. It's hard to have a great game day atmosphere like that.

Total BS......it's football, not the opera.....real fans stand up and cheer....

[CID1990]

VMI is limited regarding close parking & tailgating areas.....when the I was founded in 1839, these things not quite on the agenda......and what is negative about Lexington? A typical, quaint, Southern small town....lots of history, architechture....

As a college kid, I loved Charleston. As an adult, I love Lexington. I don't need much of an excuse to go there, the wife loves it too.

[Toby]

VMI is limited regarding close parking & tailgating areas.....when the I was founded in 1839, these things not quite on the agenda......and what is negative about Lexington? A typical, quaint, Southern small town....lots of history, architechture....

Yeah, that what "beautiful" means

[catamount man]

I will never rank The Citadel's "atmosphere" at all. Bulldog fans openly cheering when WCU players were hurt and carried off the field in both 2004 and 2006 and then wanted to shake our hands after the game as if everything was alright. Thought two VERY GOOD fights were about to break out but thank God some sanity actually prevailed. Mister Boss Hogg and his rebel flag belt can still go take a walk off the Battery as far as I am concerned. Sorry Mark and....the other guy. LOL! GO CATS!

[mamberso]

Been to two SoCon stadiums.

UTC: I really like the City of Chattanooga. Lots of tailgating before both games I saw JSU play there. Inside stadium experience isn't that great, but it's not from lack of trying on the part of the school. They have a train horn and two really annoying guys on the PA (if you are a visitor). Great views of the field, only marred by the sun during late afternoon games. Give UTC a B.

Samford: Beautiful old stadium. Birmingham is really improving as a city. Inside the stadium, the experience is pretty boring. Give Samford a B-


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[FUBeAR]

I will never rank The Citadel's "atmosphere" at all. Bulldog fans openly cheering when WCU players were hurt and carried off the field in both 2004 and 2006 and then wanted to shake our hands after the game as if everything was alright. Thought two VERY GOOD fights were about to break out but thank God some sanity actually prevailed. Mister Boss Hogg and his rebel flag belt can still go take a walk off the Battery as far as I am concerned. Sorry Mark and....the other guy. LOL! GO CATS!

https://media.makeameme.org/created/you-my-friend-zw9vkf.jpg

[citdog]

I will never rank The Citadel's "atmosphere" at all. Bulldog fans openly cheering when WCU players were hurt and carried off the field in both 2004 and 2006 and then wanted to shake our hands after the game as if everything was alright. Thought two VERY GOOD fights were about to break out but thank God some sanity actually prevailed. Mister Boss Hogg and his rebel flag belt can still go take a walk off the Battery as far as I am concerned. Sorry Mark and....the other guy. LOL! GO CATS!

Somehow I think The Citadel will survive. Glad you are back.

[Son of Eli]

It's The Citadel and it really isn't fair to the others to compare them.


Just don't eat the lead paint. That's what got students admitted to the Citadel to begin with.

[citdog]

Just don't eat the lead paint. That's what got students admitted to the Citadel to begin with.

Does yale still play football?

[BearDownMU]

Does yale still play football?

We play 'em next year!

[Son of Eli]

We play 'em next year!


I'm looking forward to the series and to experiencing the Mercer Football game day experience myself when the game is played at Mercer in 2021

[BearDownMU]

I'm looking forward to the series and to experiencing the Mercer Football game day experience myself when the game is played at Mercer in 2021

Same. Can't WAIT to come to New Haven next year. So much history. How can you not be excited to sit in the iconic Yale Bowl?! Looking forward to it.

[Son of Eli]

Same. Can't WAIT to come to New Haven next year. So much history. How can you not be excited to sit in the iconic Yale Bowl?! Looking forward to it.


Don't forget to try the best pizza in the world. I recommend Sally's Apizza. Close seconds are Pepe's and Modern Pizza.

[Colgate Raider Redux]

Yeah, that what "beautiful" means

This Yankee recently spent a couple of days in Lexington for the first time. What a charming town. I would think that the pageantry that could adorn VMI and W & L games could be special.

Curious,.... as a D3 school with a national reputation, does W & L provide its football games with pageantry ? Or is it obnoxiously subdued compared to other Southern schools ? Maybe I romanticize Southern football games ?

[CID1990]

We play 'em next year!

Go light on those Ivies...

They bruise easily

mostly their feelings


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[FCSfan]

Citadel - Beautiful home side now and great home field advantage. Tradition rich campus (like VMI). Charleston a top destination. Thank goodness they scrapped the worst visiting stands in the nation. Playing surface C-
Chatty - Pretty stadium, great downtown and surrounding area. No crowd intimidation. Welcoming fan base. Fake field
ETSU - Great new facility. Still new back to football so crowd not huge but excited. Mountains always welcoming. Fake field
Furman - Awesome new home press box, etc. Beautiful campus. Eh, in Travelers Rest??? Worst visiting stands after Citadel demolition. Smaller crowds than in yesteryear. Fake field (beautiful previous natural grass surface?)
Mercer - Fabulous new facility. Close tailgating and parking. Welcoming crowd although not capacity. Most commercial stadium in league. Pretty campus. Fake field
Samford - Gorgeous campus in a city worth visiting. Pretty stadium. Small crowd. Fake field
VMI - Shenandoah Valley an amazing destination. Tradition rich campus (like Citadel). OK stadium but can be loud. Playing surface B+
Western Carolina - Incredible Blue Ridge setting. Close parking and tailgating. Odd combo of concrete vs. metal stands but crowd is loud and the band is amazing. Fake field
Wofford - Pretty setting with sliding hill for kids. Family atmosphere. Crowd not intimidating but welcoming to visitors. Best video board in league. Playing surface A+ (thanks to the Panthers)

[ETSUfan1]

Citadel - Beautiful home side now and great home field advantage. Tradition rich campus (like VMI). Charleston a top destination. Thank goodness they scrapped the worst visiting stands in the nation. Playing surface C-
Chatty - Pretty stadium, great downtown and surrounding area. No crowd intimidation. Welcoming fan base. Fake field
ETSU - Great new facility. Still new back to football so crowd not huge but excited. Mountains always welcoming. Fake field
Furman - Awesome new home press box, etc. Beautiful campus. Eh, in Travelers Rest??? Worst visiting stands after Citadel demolition. Smaller crowds than in yesteryear. Fake field (beautiful previous natural grass surface?)
Mercer - Fabulous new facility. Close tailgating and parking. Welcoming crowd although not capacity. Most commercial stadium in league. Pretty campus. Fake field
Samford - Gorgeous campus in a city worth visiting. Pretty stadium. Small crowd. Fake field
VMI - Shenandoah Valley an amazing destination. Tradition rich campus (like Citadel). OK stadium but can be loud. Playing surface B+
Western Carolina - Incredible Blue Ridge setting. Close parking and tailgating. Odd combo of concrete vs. metal stands but crowd is loud and the band is amazing. Fake field
Wofford - Pretty setting with sliding hill for kids. Family atmosphere. Crowd not intimidating but welcoming to visitors. Best video board in league. Playing surface A+ (thanks to the Panthers)


#Nailedit

[CitadelGrad]

No Band? We have a great band who has actually started playing again after so many years of just sitting there so some nasty crappy music could be broadcast through the speaker system. Heck they even broke out 5-0 and had the bulldogs surfing on the boards during the Newberry game. No, we have a band.

Yeah, but the Regimental Band still can't play Dixie, like we could back in the good ol' days.

[CitadelGrad]

honest Baptist man

Two oxymoron in three words. That must be a record of some sort.

honest Baptist
Baptist man

[gofurman]

For those that might be curious, home attendance numbers for 2014-2016 (sorry I only started tracking 3 years ago out of curiosity)




3 year total
3 year avg


Citadel
181127
10,730


Chat
178755
9,931


Mercer
177508
10,569


WCU
160066
10,036


Wofford
110888
7,426


Furman
101828
6,789


Samford
94767
5,592


ETSU*
83036
5,061


VMI
79747
5,411




What about change in average attendance between 2014-2016?

Furman's change is easily explained because of the dumpster fire in Greenville. Wofford had down years in '14 and '15. But Chatty? Really what's up with that?




2014 Avg
2015 Avg
2016 Avg
Change


Citadel
9505
10678
12005
2500


Mercer
10000
10339
11369
1368


WCU
9525
10119
10465
940


VMI
5263
4778
6191
928


ETSU*

7128
8053
925


Samford
5336
5544
5897
561


Wofford
7764
7007
7506
-258


Chat
10147
10152
9494
-652


Furman
7800
6795
5771
-2029




Part of it is quite simply "who you play at home" - Elon probably brought a total of 300 fans. Some schools bring 2000-3000 of their own fans. So our own numbers (this applies to everyone) can easily be skewed in a given year by your home schedule.

Part of it is also how good you are.. obviously.

Part of it is how big your school / alumni is and is it a fun town to go to afterwards..

Wofford will always suffer attendance (and Furman to a lesser extent) based on school size. VMI will general suffer based on performance.

*The key though is ALL FCS Schools not named NDSU etc are suffering some as there are so many more options vs 20 years ago. ESPN3 and all the games on the TV and mobile devices. Heck, even an ardent fan might opt to watch his team on ESPN3 when rain is threatening etc. I have been guilty of that once or twice when thinking of bringing kids etc. If not for ESPN3 I probably would have gone. 30 years ago Clemson and USC etc might not get on TV - only Notre Dame v USC (real USC) etc. So Tiger fans would come watch Furman. Now the big schools are always available in some form so we have lost those fans... and without App and GSU all our attendance has gone down as they brought the most fans.

[catamount man]

The best news out of Cullowhee in a while and will certainly provide more parking on game day or at least one would hope. The enrollment is now over 11,000. More Student Athletic fees in the coffer.

http://news-prod.wcu.edu/2017/09/lower-campus-residence-hall-parking-deck-projects-move-forward-wcu/

[Go...gate]

The Citadel.

[The Pud]

The Citadel.


One day I need to check out the game day experience at Citadel. I am sure it is amazing and has lots of traditions

[Reign of Terrier]

As gofurman pointed out, Wofford will always suffer from low attendance/mediocre gameday experience because of our alumni numbers. I'm pretty sure we have around (or less than) 20k living alumni, many of which do not live in driving range. The other week I looked through an interesting study on all Division one attendance, and really outside of the BIG, Big XII, and SEC attendance (about 80k-100k) is pretty so-so nationally (probably 40k average in G5, ACC and Pac12). FCS numbers are like 10k or so. Wofford's attendance numbers are only slightly below average from the FCS average.

You could say that if you're an FCS school with a decent gameday atmosphere, that's a blessing because it's honestly rare.

But Wofford, hands down, has the best basketball atmosphere in the Socon. It's a lot easier to pack a 3500 seat arena and go nuts than it is a 13k stadium. A lot of Socon schools (in basketball) suffer because they have arenas the size of Wofford's football stadium but because they are mainly commuter schools or schools that take backseat to bigger state schools, they don't pack them nearly as well.

[ETSUfan1]

But Wofford, hands down, has the best basketball atmosphere in the Socon. It's a lot easier to pack a 3500 seat arena and go nuts...

Wofford averaged 1,614 fans last year in hoops. I would advise you to come to an ETSU basketball game at Freedom Hall then get back to me.

[Reign of Terrier]

Wofford averaged 1,614 fans last year in hoops. I would advise you to come to an ETSU basketball game at Freedom Hall then get back to me.

1614 in an arena of 3500 for a team that is average is a lot better atmosphere than the 4000 y'all have during a championship run for an arena of 6000. Attendance numbers don't speak much for atmosphere: an arena that sits 10k but only averages 2k attendance is a lot less fun or intense than an arena that sits 3500 and averages 2500 or so. A good example of this can be found at UNCG and even Chattanooga (their arena sits about 11k and in 2016 averaged 3k attendance for all of their games)

Every time we have a game on ESPN3 they mention how great our fans are. We have less students but a high percentage come for basketball games and it's a lot easier to be disruptive with 1000 students in an arena such as that than our football stadium

[PaladinFan]

1614 in an arena of 3500 for a team that is average is a lot better atmosphere than the 4000 y'all have during a championship run for an arena of 6000. Attendance numbers don't speak much for atmosphere: an arena that sits 10k but only averages 2k attendance is a lot less fun or intense than an arena that sits 3500 and averages 2500 or so. A good example of this can be found at UNCG and even Chattanooga (their arena sits about 11k and in 2016 averaged 3k attendance for all of their games)

Every time we have a game on ESPN3 they mention how great our fans are. We have less students but a high percentage come for basketball games and it's a lot easier to be disruptive with 1000 students in an arena such as that than our football stadium

Wofford has been one of the better teams, and has put together a good atmosphere.

I've enjoyed watching Furman's homecourt advantage grow over the last few years. The team is better and should be one of the SoCon favorites this season. The attendance numbers are almost exactly what Wofford produces (1600ish). I love that Furman's football team crams into the stands opposite the opposing bench and are directly courtside.

[BearDownMU]

But Wofford, hands down, has the best basketball atmosphere in the Socon.

*arches eyebrow*

http://mercerbears.com/images/2016/10/11/Hawkins_web.jpg

[PaladinFan]

Mercer built their arena onto the student center in very close proximity to a lot of student housing, the library, etc. That was a smart move. It's almost hard not to go to a game.

[Reign of Terrier]

Wofford has been one of the better teams, and has put together a good atmosphere.

I've enjoyed watching Furman's homecourt advantage grow over the last few years. The team is better and should be one of the SoCon favorites this season. The attendance numbers are almost exactly what Wofford produces (1600ish). I love that Furman's football team crams into the stands opposite the opposing bench and are directly courtside.

The only drawback to Furman's arena is that their arena is objectively horribly designed for basketball and their attendance numbers. Wofford's new arena was designed explicitly not to replicate Furman's faulty designs


*arches eyebrow*

http://mercerbears.com/images/2016/10/11/Hawkins_web.jpg

Mercer is definitely up there as well. The only thing I don't understand is that y'all designed an arena that was smaller than 1/3 of your student population. They also haven't won anything *yet,* but that's a different argument from how good their arena and atmosphere is.

[FUBeAR]

1614 in an arena of 3500 for a team that is average is a lot better atmosphere than the 4000 y'all have during a championship run for an arena of 6000.

1614/3500 = 46%
4000/6000 = 67%

67% > 46% (about 46% greater than...in fact)

xconfusedx

[Reign of Terrier]

46% for a 15-17 average squad vs 60% for the conference champs. ETSU's attendance was about 3,000 the year before for a similarly good squad, while Wofford hasn't been great in 3 years.

My point is they're at best equivalent to Wofford being marginally better from a proportion wise. It doesn't matter because ETSU wasn't the subject of my original claim, while the likes of Chatt and UNCG were

[BearDownMU]

Mercer is definitely up there as well. The only thing I don't understand is that y'all designed an arena that was smaller than 1/3 of your student population. They also haven't won anything *yet,* but that's a different argument from how good their arena and atmosphere is.

That's a tad misleading. Mercer's total enrollment (about 8,800) includes campuses in Macon (primarily undergrad), Atlanta (primarily graduate), Savannah (medical school extension) and 3 regional learning centers (Lithia Springs, McDonough, Newnan). The total undergrad population is more like 4,700, and of those, traditional undergrad in Macon (18-23 year old, Macon residential students, what you would think of as a regular "college student") is more like 3,000 - 3,500. (Our 2016 incoming class was about 850 new students, including transfers). Given all that, the 3,500 seat arena feel like it was right sized, to me.

[FUBeAR]

46% for a 15-17 average squad vs 60% for the conference champs

The environment is the environment regardless of the Team's record or their mascot or school colors. An arena filled to 2/3 capacity is, unless something else is way out of whack, is better than an arena filled to less than 1/2 capacity. As wild and crazy as Wofford fans are known to be (?), I don't imagine those 4,000 fans in Johnson City are sitting on their hands. Heck, most of 'em are prolly likkered up on 'shine and thinkin' 'bout makin' the other team squeal like pigs...y'know.

[FUBeAR]

46% for a 15-17 average squad vs 60% for the conference champs. ETSU's attendance was about 3,000 the year before for a similarly good squad, while Wofford hasn't been great in 3 years.

My point is they're at best equivalent to Wofford being marginally better from a proportion wise.

I don't think almost half again as much (46% closer to capacity) was considered "marginal" or "equivalent" in any of the undergrad or grad Stats classes I took at Furman. They must teach Stats differently at Woffy.

[ElCid]

Mercer is definitely up there as well. The only thing I don't understand is that y'all designed an arena that was smaller than 1/3 of your student population. They also haven't won anything *yet,* but that's a different argument from how good their arena and atmosphere is.

That is not a bad strategy. Not to mention that not everyone is a basketball fan. I don't know if they did it intentionally. Probably not and it was limited by money and available space. But like many things in life, people tend to want some things more if they are less available. In this case seats. Build a 10,000 seat arena and people will say, "no I don't need to buy a ticket. I can just show up and I will be ok." Only they might not even go at the last moment. Build a 5000 seat arena and people might think, "I better buy a ticket or even get season tickets or I might not be able to go." Excess capacity is not always a good thing especially with fickle students. Also not conducive to crowd energy. So much depends on other factors as well, but capacity and availability are often overlooked factors. Like economics, if a venue fills up every game consistently, then it might be wise to expand. But you better be right, because it is a huge capital outlay. If it doesn't remain full consistently, then it is best to keep the supply limited. In regard to SOCON football, not sure we have a capacity issue currently.:( Not sure about basketball, but probably not either.

[BearDownMU]

That is not a bad strategy. Not to mention that not everyone is a basketball fan. I don't know if they did it intentionally. Probably not and it was limited by money and available space. But like many things in life, people tend to want some things more if they are less available. In this case seats. Build a 10,000 seat arena and people will say, "no I don't need to buy a ticket. I can just show up and I will be ok." Only they might not even go at the last moment. Build a 5000 seat arena and people might think, "I better buy a ticket or even get season tickets or I might not be able to go." Excess capacity is not always a good thing especially with fickle students. Also not conducive to crowd energy. So much depends on other factors as well, but capacity and availability are often overlooked factors. Like economics, if a venue fills up every game consistently, then it might be wise to expand. But you better be right, because it is a huge capital outlay. If it doesn't remain full consistently, then it is best to keep the supply limited. In regard to SOCON football, not sure we have a capacity issue currently.:( Not sure about basketball, but probably not either.

This is an age old truism in the music business. You would 100% prefer to sell out a 4,000 seater, than put 7,000 in a 10,000 seater.

[Reign of Terrier]

That's a tad misleading. Mercer's total enrollment (about 8,800) includes campuses in Macon (primarily undergrad), Atlanta (primarily graduate), Savannah (medical school extension) and 3 regional learning centers (Lithia Springs, McDonough, Newnan). The total undergrad population is more like 4,700, and of those, traditional undergrad in Macon (18-23 year old, Macon residential students, what you would think of as a regular "college student") is more like 3,000 - 3,500. (Our 2016 incoming class was about 850 new students, including transfers). Given all that, the 3,500 seat arena feel like it was right sized, to me.

I didn't know this. This is very enlightening.


The environment is the environment regardless of the Team's record or their mascot or school colors. An arena filled to 2/3 capacity is, unless something else is way out of whack, is better than an arena filled to less than 1/2 capacity. As wild and crazy as Wofford fans are known to be (?), I don't imagine those 4,000 fans in Johnson City are sitting on their hands. Heck, most of 'em are prolly likkered up on 'shine and thinkin' 'bout makin' the other team squeal like pigs...y'know.

I've never been to an ETSU game, so I can't say. The only away venues I've been to in the Socon are Citadel and Furman (the former of which was a long time ago). Furmans arena sucked the life out of the atmosphere because it was so disproportionately large. They had great student attendance, but the arena size sucked the life out of it


I don't think almost half again as much (46% closer to capacity) was considered "marginal" or "equivalent" in any of the undergrad or grad Stats classes I took at Furman. They must teach Stats differently at Woffy.

In statistical terms, I'm controlling for quality of the team. Of course you'll have better attendance if the team is good. For the 2015-2016 season ETSU averaged about 1/2 capacity and they had over 20 wins. Wofford was .500 this past season or two and had similar attendance. I'd also be interested if season ticket holders are factored into these numbers as well, because I would almost guarantee ETSU has multiple times as many season ticket holders as Wofford, in spite of our success

[PaladinFan]

The only drawback to Furman's arena is that their arena is objectively horribly designed for basketball and their attendance numbers. Wofford's new arena was designed explicitly not to replicate Furman's faulty designs



Mercer is definitely up there as well. The only thing I don't understand is that y'all designed an arena that was smaller than 1/3 of your student population. They also haven't won anything *yet,* but that's a different argument from how good their arena and atmosphere is.

Furman's design isn't so much "faulty" as that it isn't necessarily supposed to be just a basketball arena.

[PaladinFan]

That's a tad misleading. Mercer's total enrollment (about 8,800) includes campuses in Macon (primarily undergrad), Atlanta (primarily graduate), Savannah (medical school extension) and 3 regional learning centers (Lithia Springs, McDonough, Newnan). The total undergrad population is more like 4,700, and of those, traditional undergrad in Macon (18-23 year old, Macon residential students, what you would think of as a regular "college student") is more like 3,000 - 3,500. (Our 2016 incoming class was about 850 new students, including transfers). Given all that, the 3,500 seat arena feel like it was right sized, to me.

That was my next comment.

Mercer has students in Macon, Atlanta (and environs), Columbus, and Savannah. Roughly half the school's enrollment are graduate students, many of whom don't give a jot about Mercer athletics. Most have other allegiances, aren't convenient to campus, don't have the time, or some combination of the three.

[FUBeAR]

In statistical terms, I'm controlling for quality of the team. Of course you'll have better attendance if the team is good. For the 2015-2016 season ETSU averaged about 1/2 capacity and they had over 20 wins. Wofford was .500 this past season or two and had similar attendance.

So...You are saying that a Team with a worse record than another Team which also has lower overall and % to capacity attendance metrics has a better environment BECAUSE they have a worse record.

Yep - definitely different Stats methodologies over there in SparkleCity.

Seems to me that the primary basis for your case is really that Wofford is better because it's Wofford, of course, and because you say that it is better.

Hey, no worries, that sort of logical argument has worked effectively in Parenting since time began!

[Reign of Terrier]

So...You are saying that a Team with a worse record than another Team which also has lower overall and % to capacity attendance metrics has a better environment BECAUSE they have a worse record.

Yep - definitely different Stats methodologies over there in SparkleCity.

Seems to me that the primary basis for your case is really that Wofford is better because it's Wofford, of course, and because you say that it is better.

Hey, no worries, that sort of logical argument has worked effectively in Parenting since time began!

No, what's happened is that the conversation has transitioned to a different subject all together.

My original comment was that Wofford does better with basketball environment because we have smaller arena that we can pack out easier. The salient principle behind this argument is that fuller venues are better atmospheres. I made no reference to anyone by name, but I was thinking predominately of UNCG and Chattanooga having so-so attendance at their games relative to their venue size.

This comment was challenged by some ETSU fan who on the surface looked at Wofford's attendance figures and assumed because we only had 1600 or so per game that our attendance was not good. Notice that the claim about total attendance has very little to nothing to do with contradicting my original argument's salient principle.

I followed with a counterargument that Wofford's attendance and environment is still probably better if you control for student/alumni population/arena size and the quality of the team. ETSU's attendance was in the 50% filled range in 2015-2016 and 60-70% range in 2016-2017 season. Both of those teams won more than 20 games, whereas Wofford was at .500 and still held steady.

One season does not make a trend as you cannot make a conclusive claim on such singular data points. It wouldn't be fair to compare the attendance of a conference champ to a mid-tier team in those circumstances.

Having said that, attendance numbers and their ratio to the venue by themselves don't indicate atmosphere. Other factors such as winning percentage at home does as well and Wofford had one of the best in the Benjo for conference games.

So no, my conclusion wasn't based upon "because it's Wofford" it's because of venue attendance, win percentage and the qualitative observations of the SOCON ESPN crew that have actually been there.

[citdog]

This is a goddamn football board. Stfu about basketball.

[FUBeAR]

This is a goddamn football board. Stfu about basketball.

http://www.aculife.ie/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/HellYa2.jpg

[BearDownMU]

This is a goddamn football board. Stfu about basketball.

No.

[tenNesseeCat]

This is a ******* football board. Stfu about basketball.

Pastor citdog, what exactly does God and His damnation have to do with football?

[citdog]

Pastor citdog, what exactly does God and His damnation have to do with football?

As much as this board has to do with basketball. See "other sports"...

[woffordgrad94]

Since Wofford is opening up a brand new basketball arena and no games have yet been played in it, I don’t think I can say exactly what kind of game atmosphere will exist in it. But the old arena’s small size gave it a nice intimacy and it could get loud in there at times. The new building should be much the same in that regard. AS far as comparing Wofford to other venues, I have only been to Furman. I thought Timmons was pretty nice myself. Crowd behaviors at Wofford and Furman seemed similar.

In both football and basketball, one strike Wofford has against it is that a lot of the students are just so totally immersed in the Greek Life (fraternity/sorority) thing that they would just rather party it up at their little frat house than go to the game. Wofford is HEAVILY Greek (probably the one thing I dislike about it as I am not about that life myself). Also, on has to admit that some other SoCon schools like Chattanooga and ETSU do have an advantage over Wofford when it comes to game day atmosphere just on the basis of sheer numbers. And Wofford football (and even some basketball) fans are FAR too laid back a lot of times. They need to be more involved in the games... I give our basketball atmosphere a B. Football gets a C.

[tenNesseeCat]

https://amp.ncaa.com/amp/news/football/article/2017-09-20/fcs-samfords-devlin-hodges-looks-back-growth-2015-debut

Is that a vote for WCU from Hodges?

[gofurman]

Old Jack "rush three men against Ingle Martin inside the Five" Crow?

That was one of the biggest a)s whooping X I have ever seen. Didn't we beat JSU by 49-7 in a playoff game?? It was a joke

[CID1990]

Old Jack "rush three men against Ingle Martin inside the Five" Crow?

Not nearly as bad as Jack "Lose to The Citadel at Arkansas" Crowe


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[PaladinFan]

That was one of the biggest a)s whooping X I have ever seen. Didn't we beat JSU by 49-7 in a playoff game?? It was a joke

I was referencing the 2005 game. That was the one where JSU thought they'd won on an incomplete pass, shot off the fireworks, stormed the field, and realized there was still one more play. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOAGA7rTvpo

Martin found Stepp in the back of the endzone for the game winner. JSU rushed only three, didn't put any pressure on Martin, who found the open receiver.

JSU did come over to Greenville for a but whooping in the 2004 playoffs. We beat them again in Greenville in 2006.