FCS Kickoff 2017: UTC vs. JSU

[JSUSoutherner]

Where: Cramton Bowl, Montgomery, AL
When: Saturday August 26 @ 5:00 PM CST
Where to Watch: ESPN


If the recent matchups between the Mocs and Gamecocks have been any indication then we should be starting off the 2017 season with some real fireworks. The last 4 games have been separated by 6 points or less and all resulted in narrow Gamecock victories.


However, those 4 games were matchups that showcased the athletic skill of Jacob Huesman and Eli Jenkins and both have since moved on to the NFL. Another key change comes that this will be the first UTC game in 8 years without head coach Russ Huesman on the sideline. Replacing Huesman (who departed for Richmond) will be Tom Arth. Arth was the head coach at D-III John Carroll where he led his team to a 40-8 record (5-3 playoffs), including a semifinals appearance and OAC Championship over the past four seasons.


Both teams have undergone significant other changes since their last matchup for reasons ranging from the NFL to new stars since emerged. This matchup should be a great indication of where both teams stand as they both head into a season full of unknowns.


UTC Key 5 Losses (since last JSU matchup in 2015):
-DE Kieonta Davis (2x AA, 2016 SoCon DPOY)
-OL Corey Levin (Titans)
-QB Jacob Huesman (Giants)
-WR CJ Board (Ravens)
-HC Russ Huesman (Richmond)


UTC Key 5 Players (going into this season):
-QB Alejandro Bennifield
-LB Dale Warren
-OL Jacob Revis
-DB Lucas Webb
-P Colin Brewer :D


Obviously the biggest change here is the hire of Tom Arth. If his time at John Carroll was any indication of what to expect then we can assume that the main focus of UTC's game will be on defense. Considering UTCs defense was good to begin with I'm eager to see what Arth can do to elevate the Mocs game, especially with the challenge of replacing elite pass rusher Keionta Davis.


Offensively the Mocs feature a solid offensive line now headlined by Jacob Revis, Josh Cardiello, and Malcolm White. The biggest challenge for the offense will be filling the gaping hole left by the departure of First Team All-SoCon back Derrick Craine. Last year the UTC offense would basically hurl Derrick Craine at you until you bit then have Bennifield chuck it right over your head. It worked, but with the 5'9" 180lbs Bagley looking like the most likely successor to Craine the days of pounding the rock straight between the tackles may be done. I would fancy a guess that we may see a lot more of Bennifield's skill as a mobile QB this season as Arth will likely take advantage of his speed and his offensive line as well as refine his skills as a passer. He could have Bennifield doing some real damage against a JSU secondary that will be hurting from the departure of shutdown corner Jaylen Hill and safety Green.


Defense is where Arth's teams usually shine brightest. During his 4 seasons (48 games) at John Carroll he held opposing offenses under 10 points *rubs eyes and does double take* TWENTY SIX TIMES. ****! With TEN shutouts. Wow. Okay. I see you Mr. Arth. I'm interested to see what he can do with a UTC defense that still has a bunch of talent. My best guess is he will come out with heat attempting to stop JSU's running back tandem of Roc and Terry and attempt to get at JSU's QB who will be making their first D-I start at QB.


JSU Key Losses (since last UTC matchup):
-QB Eli Jenkins (Chargers)
-DE Chris Landrum (Chargers)
-RB Troymaine Pope (Seahawks)
-C Casey Dunn (Auburn as Grad transfer)
-WR Josh Barge (JSU's All-time Receiving Leader)


JSU Key 5 Players:
-RB Roc Thomas
-DE Darius Jackson
-S Marlon Bridges
-LB Joel McCandless
-RB Tramel Terry


Without arguably the best QB, running back, and receiver JSU has ever had so far not on the roster for the first time since Grass has been in charge, things have changed for the Gamecocks. First off, part of what allowed JSU's to make progress against a stout UTC defense was the presence of Jenkins' elite ability not only as a passer, but as a runner. Jenkins provided an extra dimension to the JSU offense much like Huesman did at UTC. Jenkins' ability to draw the attention of the linebackers helped to open up rushing lanes for guys like Pope.


Filling the hole left by Jenkins will either be Bryant Horn, a smart QB with a good arm and ability to read a defense and decent wheels, or Kendrick Doss, a dual-threat with great speed and skill as a runner. However it's likely that the Gamecock offense will shift its focus away from the quarterback position and more toward the running backs. The tandem of Roc Thomas and Tramel Terry should be enough to give UTC DC Tom Kaufman some worry. Both running backs possess the versatility and ability to make plays running and catching the ball and make having 2 running backs and 5 receivers on the field at the same time a possibility.


On the defensive side of the ball it's pretty much the same as last year with the biggest departures being DT Desmond Owino and CB Jaylen Hill. The defensive line should be stout but the secondary poses some concern. Cornerback Reggie Hall and Safety Marlon Bridges will provide experience while the other two spots will be fairly unknown. Expect the JSU defense to bring the heat and try to force Bennifield into making mistakes. If JSU can't bring enough pressure it may look like the Youngstown State game all over again.







Who do you guys think will get the first 'W' of the year?

[citdog]

I'll let you know in August.

[Milktruck74]

Nice write up. Good insight. As you mentiond, these are two completely different teams since the last match up. I thing that is probably a good thing (not willing to say advantage) for the Mocs. In the past the offense has been a little too predictable, as long as you exicute it works well against good defenses...but not those that are better than good. I think the keys to the game are going to be how well AB plays. We have seen his arm and he tosses a nice ball, I think Russ was too conservative to use him to his potential last year. When he threw a bad ball, he was shut down and not allowed to open it up again. Bagley is a good back (not Craine) and if the deep ball is a threat, it will open up some lanes for him to burn through. We had to have a Craine like back, since most teams knew we wouldnt throw the ball past the first down sticks, they put 13 players in the box... I am looking forward to seeing what happens....I think a Mocs win could set them up with the confidence to make a nice run in a very tough SoCon, and a Cocks win will give them the best quality win they get all year as they continue to roll over a very weak OVC.

[Rjones61]

Definitely feel it's the Chats. I think Jacksonville is fading back to Ohio Valley obscurity. I'm surprised that conference has had something playoff worthy for this long.

[FUBeAR]

UTC Key 5 Players (going into this season):
-QB Alejandro Bennifield
-LB Dale Warren
-OL Jacob Revis
-DB Lucas Webb
-P Colin Brewer :D


Jacob Revis is not returning for his 5th year at Chatt...

...along with 2 other Mocs O-Linemen...

"OFFENSIVE LINE
But the group took a blow when redshirt junior center Jacob Revis and junior tackle Hunter Townson announced they would not use their final seasons of eligibility. In addition, backup center Alex Hooper from Walker Valley also is graduating and won't play in 2017." - Chattanooga Times Free Press, 12/25/16

[Bucs2016]

Cant wait!!!!

[Thundar]

think there are 5 other games this day, so the "Kickoff" has kind of been taken out of the equation, guessing this will be the lowest viewed game and probably the final one. Kind of sucks but whatever

I know NDSU has told ESPN they will not do another one in the future due to the hassle and difficulty of the early practicing then long span in between games.

[JSUSoutherner]

think there are 5 other games this day, so the "Kickoff" has kind of been taken out of the equation, guessing this will be the lowest viewed game and probably the final one. Kind of sucks but whatever

I know NDSU has told ESPN they will not do another one in the future due to the hassle and difficulty of the early practicing then long span in between games.
Oh well. I don't care. We still get airtime on ESPN.

[POD Knows]

Oh well. I don't care. We still get airtime on ESPN.

Don't show up on the 25th, you will be the only guy there except for the grounds crew. :D

[JSUSoutherner]

Jacob Revis is not returning for his 5th year at Chatt...

...along with 2 other Mocs O-Linemen...

"OFFENSIVE LINE
But the group took a blow when redshirt junior center Jacob Revis and junior tackle Hunter Townson announced they would not use their final seasons of eligibility. In addition, backup center Alex Hooper from Walker Valley also is graduating and won't play in 2017." - Chattanooga Times Free Press, 12/25/16

Hmm didn't realize they wouldn't be playing. That makes me feel much better about this matchup. Bennifield better get used to being on his back. :D

[dgtw]

Oh well. I don't care. We still get airtime on ESPN.

That is cool, but I am still pissed about having to drive to Montgomery to watch a game I was planning on walking to. I am hoping attendance sucks so they cancel any further games there.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Bison56]

Definitely feel it's the Chats. I think Jacksonville is fading back to Ohio Valley obscurity. I'm surprised that conference has had something playoff worthy for this long.

I have to agree with this comment. I see JSU fading into the sunset, but I am sure we will still be able to hear the players chirping as they go.

[JSUSoutherner]

That is cool, but I am still pissed about having to drive to Montgomery to watch a game I was planning on walking to. I am hoping attendance sucks so they cancel any further games there.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Agreed. Both UTC and JSU's facilities make the Cramton Bowl look like a high school stadium.


I have to agree with this comment. I see JSU fading into the sunset, but I am sure we will still be able to hear the players chirping as they go.

Curious why you think that.

I hope you're wrong about the chirping part. If it's anything like last year our biggest issue keeping us from going deeper than round 2 will be stupid penalties.

[dgtw]

The Cramton isn't Jerry World, but it is better than Finley. I was at a wrestling tournament a few years ago in the building attached to it an could see the whole stadium through a window.

It actually looked rather nice. They remodeled it when they got the bowl game. I have no issue with it being there, I just don't like it being in Montgomery.

If they wanted a neutral site, Atlanta would have been more convenient for everyone.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[JSUSoutherner]

The Cramton isn't Jerry World, but it is better than Finley. I was at a wrestling tournament a few years ago in the building attached to it an could see the whole stadium through a window.

It actually looked rather nice. They remodeled it when they got the bowl game. I have no issue with it being there, I just don't like it being in Montgomery.

If they wanted a neutral site, Atlanta would have been more convenient for everyone.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Where in Atlanta? The new dome? Good luck affording that.


I do agree though, being in Montgomery is pretty meh even without the Cramton Bowl in the equation.

[kdinva]

...... when redshirt junior center Jacob Revis and junior tackle Hunter Townson announced they would not use their final seasons of eligibility. In addition, backup center Alex Hooper from Walker Valley also is graduating and won't play in 2017."

same thing every April in Lexington....usually 4-6 players.

[FUBeAR]

Hmm didn't realize they wouldn't be playing. That makes me feel much better about this matchup. Bennifield better get used to being on his back. :D

Well...if you'd like to feel even better, they also have an OT, who played in 9 games last year and started the final one against SHSU, that had a fairly serious list of offenses (I believe 1 charge was a Felony) lodged against him by UTC's finest in February. He's still on the roster, but I would guess that he might have some type of suspension to serve. Looks like he has a court date in July. So, I guess it remains to be seen if he'll be playing vs. the Gamecocks in August.

Assuming he does not play, the Mocs will have 2 Returning Starters on the O-Line (Cardiello & White) and whoever plays Center will have been 3rd Team in 2016 or new (FR or Transfer) or an O-Lineman that switches positions.

Mocs may struggle a little bit upfront on O early in the season.

[JSUSoutherner]

Well...if you'd like to feel even better, they also have an OT, who played in 9 games last year and started the final one against SHSU, that had a fairly serious list of offenses (I believe 1 charge was a Felony) lodged against him by UTC's finest in February. He's still on the roster, but I would guess that he might have some type of suspension to serve. Looks like he has a court date in July. So, I guess it remains to be seen if he'll be playing vs. the Gamecocks in August.

Assuming he does not play, the Mocs will have 2 Returning Starters on the O-Line (Cardiello & White) and whoever plays Center will have been 3rd Team in 2016 or new (FR or Transfer) or an O-Lineman that switches positions.

Mocs may struggle a little bit upfront on O early in the season.

I'd much rather not have to face a player due to graduations than because of felonies. Never like hearing things like that about players from any team.

[ASU33]

[QUOTE=JSUSoutherner;2476011]Agreed. Both UTC and JSU's facilities make the Cramton Bowl look like a high school stadium.

Well technically it is!

[citdog]

One thing is for sure. Both of these groups will piss and whine about perceived slights from one another before and after the game. I am betting that BOTH locker rooms get trashed...

[JSUSoutherner]

One thing is for sure. Both of these groups will piss and whine about perceived slights from one another before and after the game.:D I am betting that BOTH locker rooms get trashed...
Kind of like how the South pissed and whined about perceived slights from the North?



Well technically it is!

I rest my case.

[citdog]

B
Kind of like how the South pissed and whined about perceived slights from the North?



I rest my case.



http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-lBzI2bZNOXg/Tfe19OE2g_I/AAAAAAAAHMQ/0GChsANxU5k/s1600/bleeding%2Bkansas%2Bsumnerattacked.jpg

[Bison56]

Curious why you think that.

I hope you're wrong about the chirping part. If it's anything like last year our biggest issue keeping us from going deeper than round 2 will be stupid penalties.

Now this is my opinion, but I don't think Grass is a coach that can keep things under control. I believe if/when things start "going south" he wont be able to keep it together. I may be wrong, I think he is a good guy, but those are my thoughts. I am curious to see how well he can develop players, and if they go back to more transfers if things don't go well. Again this is my outsider opinion.

[JSUSoutherner]

Now this is my opinion, but I don't think Grass is a coach that can keep things under control. I believe if/when things start "going south" he wont be able to keep it together. I may be wrong, I think he is a good guy, but those are my thoughts. I am curious to see how well he can develop players, and if they go back to more transfers if things don't go well. Again this is my outsider opinion.
I can see where you're coming from. Grass' ability or lack thereof to maintain a level discipline throughout the team was put into question last year for sure. Penalties and attitudes were rampant we weren't as good last year as we could have been. I'm hoping (because I'm obviously a homer) that last season was a hiccup and there's a bit more of that 2015 team type success we can get.

In my opinion the talent is there. But like you said it's going to be about how well Grass can develop players in the future. This year should tell us a lot about what to expect in JSU's future with Grass' teams.

[RootinFerDukes]

There's nothing really special about the FCS kickoff anymore.

They now have this much CFB on the same day, just at the FBS level. By next year, it'll be half of FBS playing a week early.

http://www.fbschedules.com/college-football-schedule/

[kdinva]

I am curious to see how well he can develop players, and if they go back to more transfers if things don't go well. Again this is my outsider opinion.

I agree w/Mr. Bunker.....to me, the more a program goes for/gets JUCO's, the less confidence they may have in teaching 18 year olds.....

[TheRevSFA]

I can tell you this for sure: one team will win, and one team will almost certainly lose.

[citdog]

I can tell you this for sure: one team will win, and one team will almost certainly lose.

http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/masonry/000/229/695/cb7.jpg

[TheRevSFA]

http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/masonry/000/229/695/cb7.jpg

thanks. That was the point of the post. Glad you got it

[POD Knows]

thanks. That was the point of the post. Glad you got it

I took the Mocs here just because, well, I really don't know why and my apathy can barely propel me to reply properly.

[JALMOND]

You may have to amend your poll after Portland State beats BYU.:D

[KPSUL]

Don't know who'll win, but could have all the makings of a great game.

[andthehomeofthe-BIZON-]

They've played several pretty darn good games in the last couple years. Great choice and looking forward to watching it.

[Schism55]

You may have to amend your poll after Portland State beats BYU.:D
Thanks for that, needed a good laugh this morning xdrunkyx

[chattownmocs]

UTC has officially added graduate transfer RB Darrell Bridges from Presbyterian.

Ive thought he was one of the best backs in the country for years trapped in a bad situation.

[Schism55]

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=24950&stc=1

[JSUSoutherner]

UTC has officially added graduate transfer RB Darrell Bridges from Presbyterian.

Ive thought he was one of the best backs in the country for years trapped in a bad situation.
Guy definitely has potential. Did well at Presbyterian. He's no replacement for Derrick Craine though IMO.

[Milktruck74]

Craine was a beast but he had a bunch of help doing what he did, it was an ideal situation. Bridges did all his work behind a High School Line. I hope he works out and meshes with the team, but too often these guys are seen as carpetbaggers (thrown in just for Citdog) and never workout. IF he is accepted and it all goes smoothly, it'll be fun to see what he can do behind a decent (still not as good as Craine had) O-Line.

[Mocs123]

Craine was a beast no doubt.

It will be interesting to see how he does. He was the only option for the 'Hose accounting for something like 75% of their offensive production.

[chattownmocs]

I think Craine was one of the best in the FCS too. If you look at Bridges sophomore individual game performances it's hard to argue against him being one of the best for that season at least.

[JSUSoutherner]

I think Craine was one of the best in the FCS too. If you look at Bridges sophomore individual game performances it's hard to argue against him being one of the best for that season at least.
It will be interesting to see what UTC can do with him. He's a pretty versatile guy.

Seeing him vs Roc should be fun to start the year.

[NoVABison]

Will definitely watch the game... really good match-up.

The past two years ESPN has assigned good broadcast teams to cover the FCS kick-off. But, that 1st year, SHSU vs. EWU, was the worst! The ESPN broadcast team covered the game like an NFL preseason game, spending 80% of the broadcast talking about FBS and the CFB playoffs. I hope ESPN doesn't regress

[Mocs123]

Unfortunately it doesn't look like I will be able to attend as I will be outside the lower 48 that week. I hate that as JSU is my favorite team to play (and hate). Hopefully I will be in a position to watch the game.

I am not sure what to expect from UTC going from a spread to a pro style offense and a 4-2-5 to a 3-4-4 defense. Of course JSU probably won't know exactly what to prepare for either so hopefully it will be a good game.

I like what Arth and our coaches have said thus far. Baptism by fire in Montgomery.

[ASU33]

I'll swing by ole Cramton Bowl and check this one out. I'll be down in Montgomery that day for an alumni function that weekend anyway.

[Milktruck74]

Ijust readthrough this again...and while the initial assessment by Southerner is pretty fair (as impartial as a fan can be), so much has changed since April. Chattanooga has added a ton of transfers that look to make an impact (Bridges and Orr), Dale Warren may not be available, word from Scrappy is that Arth has the boys "Completely Bought In" ...... I'm excited to see what happens at this game, but I'm not sure it will be an indicator as to where either team will end up for the season.

[JSUSoutherner]

Ijust readthrough this again...and while the initial assessment by Southerner is pretty fair (as impartial as a fan can be), so much has changed since April. Chattanooga has added a ton of transfers that look to make an impact (Bridges and Orr), Dale Warren may not be available, word from Scrappy is that Arth has the boys "Completely Bought In" ...... I'm excited to see what happens at this game, but I'm not sure it will be an indicator as to where either team will end up for the season.

For sure. I'm not sure who the transfers are the Arth brought in so I'm not going to speak on what I think of them or how I think they will impact the game. But for me the loss of Dale Warren for this game is pretty huge.

He could have been a huge problem for us.

[Milktruck74]

For sure. I'm not sure who the transfers are the Arth brought in so I'm not going to speak on what I think of them or how I think they will impact the game. But for me the loss of Dale Warren for this game is pretty huge.

He could have been a huge problem for us.

There are a few that will see the field, but most significantly are Darrell Bridges, a Graduate transfer RB from Presbyterian and Kareem Orr, a DB from Arizona State. Orr was the Freshman All American with 7 ints, the guy is a gamer. His girlfriend gets pregnant, so he wants to come back home....lucky for us, he missed the health class with the banana!!!! Bridges did crazy things for three years with the Blue Hose, he was second in career rushing yards (2,182), led the Big South in carries in 2015 and 2016, First Team All-Big South in 2015 with 1,065 yards, PCs first and only 1,000-yard runner, and did it all with out much talent surrounding him. So those are the two transfers that should have some impact.

[chattownmocs]

I like our team, our Oline is a huge question mark though. Hopefully it's at least decent. If it's terrible, it wouldn't be the first time a bad oline completely derailed a team that was strong everywhere else.

[Mocdaddy]

The Mocs o-line will have to grow up in a hurry. This also is my biggest concern going into the season.

[JSUSoutherner]

I like our team, our Oline is a huge question mark though. Hopefully it's at least decent. If it's terrible, it wouldn't be the first time a bad oline completely derailed a team that was strong everywhere else.
How's the receiving corps looking since the departure of Board. He seemed kind of like the hero in that group.

[chattownmocs]

How's the receiving corps looking since the departure of Board. He seemed kind of like the hero in that group.

Board was good, but none of them were putting up big stats. Supposedly Joseph Parker, transfer from Wyoming has been tearing it up. Then you have Alphonso stewart and James stovall who have made quite a few plays in their careers. It's about what it's been. Deep position without supersrars.

[Milktruck74]

Board was good, but none of them were putting up big stats. Supposedly Joseph Parker, transfer from Wyoming has been tearing it up. Then you have Alphonso stewart and James stovall who have made quite a few plays in their careers. It's about what it's been. Deep position without supersrars.

yeah, NOT worried about our Recievers....if the OL can give Benefield time to sling it, we have plenty of horses to trot under the ball. I think we have lacked the deep threat in years past (Russ didnt mind tossing it, but only 10-15 yards), but Arth doesnt seem to mind a long ball.

[chattownmocs]

yeah, NOT worried about our Recievers....if the OL can give Benefield time to sling it, we have plenty of horses to trot under the ball. I think we have lacked the deep threat in years past (Russ didnt mind tossing it, but only 10-15 yards), but Arth doesnt seem to mind a long ball.

Bennifield has as good a deep ball as anyone too.

[milleniumkat]

Bennifield has as good a deep ball as anyone too.

agree to disagree on that one.

[chattownmocs]

agree to disagree on that one.

How would you know? Because he didn't hit a bunch against your team?

[milleniumkat]

How would you know? Because he didn't hit a bunch against your team?

Nah he mostly hurt us with his legs. He made some decent intermediate throws but i wasn't too impressed with his deep ball. I wouldn't say "as good as anybody". Not terrible, but not great.

[Milktruck74]

I don't think you saw too much of his deep ball....Russ and Company had a pretty big aversion to airing it out. He really only let Benefield sling it 11-20 yards. HE can drop it in a moving bread basket at 50 yards....he just rarely had the opportunity (you can only throw to the routs that are run). If the OL can give him the 5 step drop, he can burn up some folks deep....and we have the receivers to run under it too.

[milleniumkat]

I don't think you saw too much of his deep ball....Russ and Company had a pretty big aversion to airing it out. He really only let Benefield sling it 11-20 yards. HE can drop it in a moving bread basket at 50 yards....he just rarely had the opportunity (you can only throw to the routs that are run). If the OL can give him the 5 step drop, he can burn up some folks deep....and we have the receivers to run under it too.

That may be. Just speaking to what i saw. I watched the Weber St game and he didn't need to throw it much then either.

[Milktruck74]

That may be. Just speaking to what i saw. I watched the Weber St game and he didn't need to throw it much then either.

Very true. I'm obviously a little biased, but (as much as it pains me to say it) Chattown is right about this kid's arm....he can sling it and his accuracy is amazing. I've watched him in practice and pre-game and it is JAW DROPPING....then in game situations, nothing!!!! Hopefully Coach Arth sees that in him.....We need to soften up the run, with the pass. With Craine, we could soften up the pass with the run, but we don't have that option anymore.

[JSUSoutherner]

Very true. I'm obviously a little biased, but (as much as it pains me to say it) Chattown is right about this kid's arm....he can sling it and his accuracy is amazing. I've watched him in practice and pre-game and it is JAW DROPPING....then in game situations, nothing!!!! Hopefully Coach Arth sees that in him.....We need to soften up the run, with the pass. With Craine, we could soften up the pass with the run, but we don't have that option anymore.

Good luck with that this weekend. The offensive line better be able to keep Benefield off his back long enough to hit some deep balls or it may be a long day for the UTC offense.

[milleniumkat]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170819/51a0b1252d97a61f1cd8611b636f5271.jpg

[milleniumkat]

Very true. I'm obviously a little biased, but (as much as it pains me to say it) Chattown is right about this kid's arm....he can sling it and his accuracy is amazing. I've watched him in practice and pre-game and it is JAW DROPPING....then in game situations, nothing!!!! Hopefully Coach Arth sees that in him.....We need to soften up the run, with the pass. With Craine, we could soften up the pass with the run, but we don't have that option anymore.

Understood. I deduct zero points for home team biased. That's what it's all about. If everyone was on everyone's side this would just be a cult.

[milleniumkat]

MK's prediction in this one:

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170819/4b89b9b5ca18e9a525e86f3a072a4e20.jpg

[JSUSoutherner]

MK's prediction in this one:

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170819/4b89b9b5ca18e9a525e86f3a072a4e20.jpg

Well it wouldn't be the first time you were wrong.

[milleniumkat]

Well it wouldn't be the first time you were wrong.

No it would not!!!

[JSUSoutherner]

Trash talk aside, I'm curious how Mocs fans think their new offensive line will be able to hold up against our defensive line.

I think this matchup will determine the outcome outcome of the game.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

I'm just ready for some football.

Looking forward to watching this one.

[moc n tn1991]

Trash talk aside, I'm curious how Mocs fans think their new offensive line will be able to hold up against our defensive line.

I think this matchup will determine the outcome outcome of the game.

This will be a great test for our new coaching staff and the O-line against your defense. This will also give us a good idea of where we are at to this point. Then we have 2 weeks to work on areas, and get to go to LSU.

[rtzlunar]

This will be a great test for our new coaching staff and the O-line against your defense. This will also give us a good idea of where we are at to this point. Then we have 2 weeks to work on areas, and get to go to LSU.
Not the easiest way to start he season, but I'm looking forward to a weekend in Baton Rouge and the much hyped tailgating scene.

[chattownmocs]

Nah he mostly hurt us with his legs. He made some decent intermediate throws but i wasn't too impressed with his deep ball. I wouldn't say "as good as anybody". Not terrible, but not great.

Could that be because your defense was determined to not allow the deep ball? Look at his rushing stats the rest of the season. Hes much more of a pro style QB than that game would suggest.

[chattownmocs]

Very true. I'm obviously a little biased, but (as much as it pains me to say it) Chattown is right about this kid's arm....he can sling it and his accuracy is amazing. I've watched him in practice and pre-game and it is JAW DROPPING....then in game situations, nothing!!!! Hopefully Coach Arth sees that in him.....We need to soften up the run, with the pass. With Craine, we could soften up the pass with the run, but we don't have that option anymore.

He hit some beautiful deep balls, particularly early in the year. Defenses change when they learn the scouting report . Jeff Durden is a good play caller but play calling is largely reactionary to what the defense gives you.

[milleniumkat]

Could that be because your defense was determined to not allow the deep ball? Look at his rushing stats the rest of the season. Hes much more of a pro style QB than that game would suggest.

i don't think so because our defense tried and failed to stop the deep ball all damn year and this was the one game other than our D2 opponent that it worked.

[JSUSoutherner]

So close.

[Milktruck74]

NOTES TO KNOW ABOUT THE JACKSONVILLE STATE GAME
• This is the 41st meeting in the regional matchup ... UTC leads 26-14 ... series dates back to 1904 and is one of UTC's oldest rivalries.
• Following a 13-6 UTC win in Chattanooga in 1983, the series was suspended for 21 seasons until it restarted in 2004...UTC is just 2-9 since then.
• This is the first game on a neutral site in the series.
• At least one of these two teams has been ranked in each of the last seven meetings.
• The Mocs and JSU have played in the first two games of the season eight times since 2004.
• UTC is just 1-5 in the series since 2010, but the total score has Chattanooga in front 154-152.
• The last four games, all losses for UTC, have been decided by three points or in overtime.
• The last meeting was a 41-35 overtime loss in the second round of the FCS Playoffs on Dec. 5, 2015 ... JSU went on to advance to the FCS Championship game.
• The Mocs have played one football game in their history in Montgomery, Ala. ... a 20-7 loss to Auburn on Nov. 18, 1942.

[JaxSinfonian]

• The Mocs have played one football game in their history in Montgomery, Ala. ... a 20-7 loss to Auburn on Nov. 18, 1942.

FWIW, the Gamecocks are 1-1 at the Cramton Bowl. Also, JSU won the 1990 & 1991 DII baseball national titles at Paterson Field across the street.

(Edited to correct the Cramton Bowl record. See below.)

[JSUSoutherner]

FWIW, the Gamecocks are 1-2 at the Cramton Bowl. Also, JSU won the 1990 & 1991 DII baseball national titles at Paterson Field across the street.
All three against ASU?

[JaxSinfonian]

All three against ASU?

Yep. Finally swatted 'em in 2013 in the first game of the post-Crowe era. Eli Jenkins got the start as a redshirt freshman and was terrible. Pulled in favor of Minnesota transfer Max Shortell.

[JaxSinfonian]

Yep. Finally swatted 'em in 2013 in the first game of the post-Crowe era. Eli Jenkins got the start as a redshirt freshman and was terrible. Pulled in favor of Minnesota transfer Max Shortell.

Just remembered that was in ASU's new stadium, so the Gamecocks are 1-1 at the Cramton Bowl.

[milleniumkat]

Well at least we will still get to enjoy a last meal and a good game between the Mocs and Cocks.

[Milktruck74]

Breaking news out of Chattanooga: Benefield is out 4 games. Starter will be FR Nick Tiano (Transfer from Miss St).

[JSUSoutherner]

Breaking news out of Chattanooga: Benefield is out 4 games. Starter will be FR Nick Tiano (Transfer from Miss St).
Surely you're kidding?

Man that sucks. What happened?

[Milktruck74]

Surely you're kidding?

Man that sucks. What happened?

No Joke!!! Said Academics, but he is on track to graduate.....something is not quite right. Tiano has actually been running the first team all camp, so they knew....just didn't release it. He appealed the NCAA ruling, but it was denied. Final word was today. They knew he wouldn't be available, but.....

Hope you didn't spend a lot of time game planning for a mobile qb. haha.

[JSUGamecock1448]

No Joke!!! Said Academics, but he is on track to graduate.....something is not quite right. Tiano has actually been running the first team all camp, so they knew....just didn't release it. He appealed the NCAA ruling, but it was denied. Final word was today. They knew he wouldn't be available, but.....

Hope you didn't spend a lot of time game planning for a mobile qb. haha.

Tiano is a big guy. From what I've read on him, he can sling it around.

[JSUSoutherner]

No Joke!!! Said Academics, but he is on track to graduate.....something is not quite right. Tiano has actually been running the first team all camp, so they knew....just didn't release it. He appealed the NCAA ruling, but it was denied. Final word was today. They knew he wouldn't be available, but.....

At least they knew. I feel a bit better now. Well played by UTC keeping that info from getting out.

[Milktruck74]

Tiano is a big guy. From what I've read on him, he can sling it around.

He is a gamer with a big arm, but he is a pocket guy....We really could have used Dro's legs in this one, especially with our young/fresh OL. Tiano won't go down easy, so that might be a plus.

[JSUSoutherner]

He is a gamer with a big arm, but he is a pocket guy....We really could have used Dro's legs in this one, especially with our young/fresh OL. Tiano won't go down easy, so that might be a plus.
Hope he's calm under pressure. If he doesn't like to run I expect Blackwell will send the house and send it often.

[Milktruck74]

Hope he's calm under pressure. If he doesn't like to run I expect Blackwell will send the house and send it often.

I get that you can't throw it from under the pile, but he does have a quick release and that might just play right into his hands. One can hope!!!

[JSUGamecock1448]

I get that you can't throw it from under the pile, but he does have a quick release and that might just play right into his hands. One can hope!!!

the uncertainty of this game has me nervous, not gonna lie. Looking forward to kickoff!

[JSUSoutherner]

the uncertainty of this game has me nervous, not gonna lie. Looking forward to kickoff!

I think this game will tell us whether JSU has the "it" factor this year or not. It will show whether we can handle unknowns and a big stage. Win or lose we will learns whole lot tomorrow.

[ElCid]

Breaking news out of Chattanooga: Benefield is out 4 games. Starter will be FR Nick Tiano (Transfer from Miss St).

What kind of playing time did he have?

[FUBeAR]

No Joke!!! Said Academics, but he is on track to graduate.....something is not quite right. Tiano has actually been running the first team all camp, so they knew....just didn't release it. He appealed the NCAA ruling, but it was denied. Final word was today. They knew he wouldn't be available, but.....

Hope you didn't spend a lot of time game planning for a mobile qb. haha.

Chatt is playing some South Georgia HS Football 'games' with their Roster 'stuff'...and these suspensions.

Are we sure that Arth wasn't Jim Harbaugh's backup QB instead of Payton's?

Look at these game notes and 2-Deep that were published just 2 days ago...

http://www.gomocs.com/documents/2017/8/21//Game_1_vs_Jacksonville_State.pdf

Bennifield is listed as the Starter & Tiano is the back-up....AND Tiano is the only 1 of the MANY transfers that have joined the Mocs in this off-season who is listed on the 2-deep. Where is Orr? He was All-American in the PAC-12 and can't crack the 2-Deep in the SoCon....Warren is listed as the starter at MLB. My bet - he's out for the whole season.

I could go on....but...whatever....I hope Chatt wins...this game and all of their OOC games....but I'm thinking we may see more shenanigans out of this new staff up there as the season progresses....just the way it looks to this old FUBeAR right now.

[milleniumkat]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170825/1ce02d17b98071b891a15a5b1ea2e6cd.jpg

jesus herbert walker christ! what is wrong with the fcs???

[Milktruck74]

Chatt is playing some South Georgia HS Football 'games' with their Roster 'stuff'...and these suspensions.

Are we sure that Arth wasn't Jim Harbaugh's backup QB instead of Payton's?

Look at these game notes and 2-Deep that were published just 2 days ago...

http://www.gomocs.com/documents/2017/8/21//Game_1_vs_Jacksonville_State.pdf

Bennifield is listed as the Starter & Tiano is the back-up....AND Tiano is the only 1 of the MANY transfers that have joined the Mocs in this off-season who is listed on the 2-deep. Where is Orr? He was All-American in the PAC-12 and can't crack the 2-Deep in the SoCon....Warren is listed as the starter at MLB. My bet - he's out for the whole season.

I could go on....but...whatever....I hope Chatt wins...this game and all of their OOC games....but I'm thinking we may see more shenanigans out of this new staff up there as the season progresses....just the way it looks to this old FUBeAR right now.


Warren and Benefield were still the starters two days ago....until all appeals are exhausted. Warren's appeal hasn't come down yet. As far as him missing the season, his original suspension is 5.5 games. If the appeal was denied (which I've heard he will get a reduction...probably to 3 or 4, but no chance to zero) he would still play at least half the season. Now, I can assure you the OL is quite different.

[FUBeAR]

Warren and Benefield were still the starters two days ago....until all appeals are exhausted. Warren's appeal hasn't come down yet. As far as him missing the season, his original suspension is 5.5 games. If the appeal was denied (which I've heard he will get a reduction...probably to 3 or 4, but no chance to zero) he would still play at least half the season. Now, I can assure you the OL is quite different.

Yeah...yeah...yeah...whatever, on all that noise.

You JUST said this... "Tiano has actually been running the first team all camp, so they knew....just didn't release it. He appealed the NCAA ruling, but it was denied. Final word was today. They knew he wouldn't be available, but....."

Those 2 statements (in bold) can't possibly both be true....so... back to the Bush League with all this chicanery...I have INVESTMENTS to make...and this Dis-Information is inhibiting my analyses.

Oh...BTW...Are you now ["Now, I can assure you the OL is quite different."] saying this...

RT 72 Josh Cardiello........... 6-3......... 305....... Sr.-2L..........Buford, Ga ..............2nd Team All-SoCon ... preseason 1st team All-SoCon
52 McClendon Curtis ....... 6-8......... 320.......Fr.-HS..........Chattanooga, Tenn.......................................true-freshman 3-star prep prospect

RG 77 Taylor Helton............... 6-5......... 300.......So.-1L..........Kingsport, Tenn .................................................. .........Off the bench three times
73 Quintin Alibocas .......... 6-3......... 305.......Fr.-RS.......... Johnson City, Tenn............................ 2-star prep prospect who redshirted in ‘16

C 78 Brian Marshall............. 6-2......... 320.......So.-1L..........Marietta, Ga ..........................................Played in 12 games as a true freshman
76 Alex Hooper................ 6-1......... 305........Sr.-3L..........Cleveland, Tenn .................. Played in 26 games ... 2-time Academic All-SoCon

LG 55 Branden Parker........... 6-3......... 295........Jr.-2L .......... Lithonia, Ga.............................Played on special teams ... Academic All-SoCon
71 Tyler Martin ................. 6-4......... 280.......So.-1L..........Sevierville, Tenn.............................................. ............Off the bench three times

LT 56 Malcolm White........... 6-6......... 305.......So.-1L ......... Johnson City, Tenn ....SoCon All-Freshman ... preseason 2nd team All-SoCon
69 Cole Strange............... 6-5......... 270.......Fr.-RS..........Knoxville, Tenn...................................... 2-star prep prospect ... injured all of ‘16

...is ALL BS, also?

[JSUSoutherner]

I'll let you know in August.

It's August.

[citdog]

It's August.

I like the other gamecocks in this one. Chatty has become the "last chance u" of the FCS and will suffer accordingly.

[JSUSoutherner]

I like the other gamecocks in this one. Chatty has become the "last chance u" of the FCS and will suffer accordingly.

and just like that we've lost the game. :D

[citdog]

and just like that we've lost the game.

If you took my picks from FCS NATION to Vegas you would win 80% of the time...

[JSUSoutherner]

If you took my picks from FCS NATION to Vegas you would win 80% of the time...
Did you have us or YSU last year in the playoffs?

[F'N Hawks]

Sounds like the old NCAA playoff drug test came up positive, maybe?? Been a few of those this fall already, if so.

[citdog]

Did you have us or YSU last year in the playoffs?

YSU

[milleniumkat]

100% it's weed related. It always is.

[JSUSoutherner]

YSU
Fair enough.

[Milktruck74]

Yeah...yeah...yeah...whatever, on all that noise.

You JUST said this... "Tiano has actually been running the first team all camp, so they knew....just didn't release it. He appealed the NCAA ruling, but it was denied. Final word was today. They knew he wouldn't be available, but....."

Those 2 statements (in bold) can't possibly both be true....so... back to the Bush League with all this chicanery...I have INVESTMENTS to make...and this Dis-Information is inhibiting my analyses.

Oh...BTW...Are you now ["Now, I can assure you the OL is quite different."] saying this...

RT 72 Josh Cardiello........... 6-3......... 305....... Sr.-2L..........Buford, Ga ..............2nd Team All-SoCon ... preseason 1st team All-SoCon
52 McClendon Curtis ....... 6-8......... 320.......Fr.-HS..........Chattanooga, Tenn.......................................true-freshman 3-star prep prospect

RG 77 Taylor Helton............... 6-5......... 300.......So.-1L..........Kingsport, Tenn .................................................. .........Off the bench three times
73 Quintin Alibocas .......... 6-3......... 305.......Fr.-RS.......... Johnson City, Tenn............................ 2-star prep prospect who redshirted in ‘16

C 78 Brian Marshall............. 6-2......... 320.......So.-1L..........Marietta, Ga ..........................................Played in 12 games as a true freshman
76 Alex Hooper................ 6-1......... 305........Sr.-3L..........Cleveland, Tenn .................. Played in 26 games ... 2-time Academic All-SoCon

LG 55 Branden Parker........... 6-3......... 295........Jr.-2L .......... Lithonia, Ga.............................Played on special teams ... Academic All-SoCon
71 Tyler Martin ................. 6-4......... 280.......So.-1L..........Sevierville, Tenn.............................................. ............Off the bench three times

LT 56 Malcolm White........... 6-6......... 305.......So.-1L ......... Johnson City, Tenn ....SoCon All-Freshman ... preseason 2nd team All-SoCon
69 Cole Strange............... 6-5......... 270.......Fr.-RS..........Knoxville, Tenn...................................... 2-star prep prospect ... injured all of ‘16

...is ALL BS, also?

The 5 starters on the OL are probably accurate, but not in those positions.

[dgtw]

Game day!!!! Packing up now for the trip. Actually, I'm sitting here watching my wife pack, but I'm providing moral support.


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[JSUSoutherner]

Game day!!!! Packing up now for the trip. Actually, I'm sitting here watching my wife pack, but I'm providing moral support.


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Where are you driving from?

[dgtw]

Where are you driving from?

Jacksonville.


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[JSUSoutherner]

Jacksonville.


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You guys were packing before I even got up. xlolx

[SU DOG]

Any info on ticket sales? I heard earlier that one side of the stadium was pretty filled already.

[JaxSinfonian]

You guys were packing before I even got up. xlolx

We packed the pickup last night. Iced down the beer this morning. Just waiting on the rest of our party to arrive in J'ville so we can hit the road for Montgomery. Starting to worry that we haven't planned to leave early enough.

[Cocky]

Any info on ticket sales? I heard earlier that one side of the stadium was pretty filled already.

Heard the same and even heard the other side is sold too. The west side or UTC side has the corporate sales included.

[POD Knows]

Don't embarrass the FCS. Other than that, I don't care one way or the other.

[milleniumkat]

I change my mind. The Cheekins will ferk da Mocs.

[dgtw]

You guys were packing before I even got up. xlolx

We were probably up before you went to bed. Old people are like that.

Looking forward to your show.


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[JSUSoutherner]

We were probably up before you went to bed. Old people are like that.

Looking forward to your show.


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Fair point.

Hope you enjoy it.

[Bisonoline]

Dont care who wins. I just want to see a good game.

[dgtw]

Fair point.

Hope you enjoy it.

Y'all won the pep rally.


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[JSUSoutherner]

Y'all won the pep rally.


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Is my prize a bottle of water?

[dgtw]

Is my prize a bottle of water?

I have a Mich Ultra if you want one.


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[Milktruck74]

I have a Mich Ultra if you want one.


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Pretty much the bottle of water he was talking about.

[JSUSoutherner]

Pretty much the bottle of water he was talking about.

Gonna have to agree with this one.

They fed us Jason's Deli. We also got water. And now I'm sitting on the bus in the AC.

Life is good.

[dgtw]

Gonna have to agree with this one.

They fed us Jason's Deli. We also got water. And now I'm sitting on the bus in the AC.

Life is good.

Sweating my ass off at the tailgate tent. Enjoy the cool while you can.


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[JSUSoutherner]

Sweating my ass off at the tailgate tent. Enjoy the cool while you can.


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Don't have to tell me twice.

[Milktruck74]

Its 78* here in JC. Iwish I was able to sweat my balls off with you guys in Montgomery, but I'll have to watch ESPN, grill some Yard Bird on my BGE, and then watch my Mocs grill some yard bird on the gridiron!!!!

[JSUSoutherner]

Its 78* here in JC. Iwish I was able to sweat my balls off with you guys in Montgomery, but I'll have to watch ESPN, grill some Yard Bird on my BGE, and then watch my Mocs grill some yard bird on the gridiron!!!!

Air mail me some grillin'!

[Schism55]

Let's get it on!

[citdog]

Let's get it on!


http://ktvn.images.worldnow.com/images/20310094_SA.jpg

[citdog]

The Mississippi State tranny QB looks tight. Not a single throw that 1st series was anywhere close.

[JSUSoutherner]

The Mississippi State tranny QB looks tight. Not a single throw that 1st series was anywhere close.

No kidding. Although I won't say too much until we get a first down.

Let's go D!

[Schism55]

Is that Jared Lorenzen kicking FG's for Jax st? :D

[citdog]

JSU needs to block a little better on the Field Goal Team. The lefty snuck it in there though.

3-0 JSU

[Milktruck74]

Is that Jared Lorenzen kicking FG's for Jax st? :D

Between him and the Mocs Kickoff guy, they would close down a buffet.

[JSUSoutherner]

Ok I have to ask. How did this guy get on MSU's roster?

[BNATION]

QB play on both sides is miserable. Especially Chat.

[ElCid]

Between him and the Mocs Kickoff guy, they would close down a buffet.

Too funny!

[JSUSoutherner]

Uh oh.

[ElCid]

UTC might have issues. This QB sucks. Opening jitters?

[Milktruck74]

Stillway early. Tiano will settle in. I hope soon!!!!

[andthehomeofthe-BIZON-]

Interception Chatty!

[citdog]

Starting to get the rust worked out on both sides. Hitting is picking up.

[BNATION]

It's not a secret why this kid did not play for MSU. Key example of a kid who got a offer because of his measurables. Can't hit the road side of a barn. I feel for this Chatty team. We had J. Johnson, freak athlete. Terrible QB.

[JSUSoutherner]

Good stand D!

[citdog]

JSU defense looks legit. Or is Chatt just terrible on offense?

[Milktruck74]

JSU defense looks legit. Or is Chatt just terrible on offense?

Little of both....but we will settle in. Nobody is hurt!!!!!

[JSUSoutherner]

ROC THOMAS BABY!!!

[Lorne_Malvo]

Mocs look like ass. Nothing new.

[citdog]

UH OH....


Chatty fans have to be tired of seeing running backs run right up their middle and then run away from their defense.

76 yards Roc Thomas

10-3 JSU

[JSUSoutherner]

Unsportsmanlike conduct? I ain't even mad. Chuck Fattanooga.

[citdog]

JSU continues its lack of discipline. 15yd Unsportsmanlike on the Kickoff.

[BNATION]

This kid is garbage.

[JSUSoutherner]

JSU continues its lack of discipline. 15yd Unsportsmanlike on the Kickoff.
It's a rivalry game after a big play.

At least we aren't racking up penalties like UTC is.

[citdog]

It's a rivalry game after a big play.

At least we aren't racking up penalties like UTC is.

The lack of discipline has been a problem for y'all for YEARS.

[JSUSoutherner]

Need more pressure on D.

[andthehomeofthe-BIZON-]

Chattanooga Line is getting demolished. Offense can do nothing. When they do get a first down it looks like an accident. Unless QB play and line play changes they done son.

[Milktruck74]

Tiano delivers a strike.... he is calming down.

[BNATION]

No, no he's not.


Tiano delivers a strike.... he is calming down.

[citdog]

Tiano delivers a strike.... he is calming down.

Tiano sucks out loud. How do you miss a guy that wide open?

[citdog]

The disgustingly fat Chatty kicker knocks it though.

10-6 JSU

[Milktruck74]

We need to get our D back on the field so we can score!!!

[FUBeAR]

I just turned this on...while I'm at the Falcons game. Are both Offenses as AWFUL as I am seeing?

[andthehomeofthe-BIZON-]

I just turned this on...while I'm at the Falcons game. Are both Offenses as AWFUL as I am seeing?

Yes
Roc Thomas is the only fun thing to watch from either offense.

[Milktruck74]

I just turned this on...while I'm at the Falcons game. Are both Offenses as AWFUL as I am seeing?

Prettymuch. RocThomas went76 yards for a score up the middle, but other than that!!!!.

[Milktruck74]

Based on 25 mins of football......If JSU doesn't Keep Thomas healthy, they will have a VERY long season!!!!

[citdog]

Based on 25 mins of football......If JSU doesn't Keep Thomas healthy, they will have a VERY long season!!!!

If Chatt doesn't learn how to snap the ball, block, and tackle you will be 0-4....

[ElCid]

Based on 25 mins of football......If JSU doesn't Keep Thomas healthy, they will have a VERY long season!!!!


Yeah, but based on those same 25 minutes. If UTC doesn't get Bennifield a tutor, or Tiano some glasses, it will be a long season for the Mocs. He doesn't look horrible (mostly) but something is just off. He looks like some ungainly giant who has two left feet at times.

[DallasSpider]

Hopefully Chattanooga has better luck than UR did with a two gapping 3-4. The lack of pressure from the DL really hurt us against high powered opponents like EWU and JMU.

[Milktruck74]

Yeah, but based on those same 25 minutes. If UTC doesn't get Bennifield a tutor, or Tiano some glasses, it will be a long season for the Mocs. He doesn't look horrible (mostly) but something is just off. He looks like some ungainly giant who has two left feet at times.

Looks like a guy that hasn't played in a game in two seasons.

[BisonFan02]

Both are dropping in my poll. :D

[Milktruck74]

Also consider he is going against one of the top 5 FCS defenses in the country. I'm not upset so far. He hasn't been a big threat, but he has been smart with the ball so far.

[citdog]

Yeah, but based on those same 25 minutes. If UTC doesn't get Bennifield a tutor

SERIOUSLY how hard can it be to remain academically eligible at UTC???

[andthehomeofthe-BIZON-]

Watching this game I have no idea how it is still 6-10. I don't know why Grass gets so much credit. Seems like he's really good at recruiting kids that played for him in high school and thats about it. When J'ville played NDSU in the champ two years ago I though he was in way over his head with several mistakes and not getting his team ready. Today it appears he has a clearly better team and cannot put any separation between these two teams on the scoreboard. What are the boards thoughts on this? Is this just rivalry football game and first game jitters?

[Milktruck74]

Let's see what kind of adjustments are made....that will tell us a lot about Arth!!!!

[ElCid]

Watching this game I have no idea how it is still 6-10. I don't know why Grass gets so much credit. Seems like he's really good at recruiting kids that played for him in high school and thats about it. When J'ville played NDSU in the champ two years ago I though he was in way over his head with several mistakes and not getting his team ready. Today it appears he has a clearly better team and cannot put any separation between these two teams on the scoreboard. What are the boards thoughts on this? Is this just rivalry football game and first game jitters?


I think is about 50% of it (ESPN, national audience). The rest of it is ... first game, a rivalry game, the new UTC coach, new QB. UTC has a good D regardless, (both teams were top 6 defense FCS last year) so not surprised at the score. The UTC QB has settled down a bit as the game progresses. Should be a fun second half.

[Milktruck74]

Watching this game I have no idea how it is still 6-10. I don't know why Grass gets so much credit. Seems like he's really good at recruiting kids that played for him in high school and thats about it. When J'ville played NDSU in the champ two years ago I though he was in way over his head with several mistakes and not getting his team ready. Today it appears he has a clearly better team and cannot put any separation between these two teams on the scoreboard. What are the boards thoughts on this? Is this just rivalry football game and first game jitters?

I think you have two very solid defenses (other than a 76 yard hiccup by the mocs) going up against two very young/fresh/scared/(insert word that means they aren't hitting on all cylinders) offenses. I think it is hard to judge an offense on the first two games performances.

[GreenGlasses]

I said this would be a close game didn't think it would be because of 2 inept offences....

[caribbeanhen]

Tiano is to close to Taino to be a QB, Caribbean people can't play football

The Taíno people were among the indigenous people (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indigenous_people_of_the_Americas) of the Caribbean (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caribbean). At the time of European contact in the late 15th century, they were the principal inhabitants of most of Cuba (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuba), Trinidad (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trinidad), Jamaica (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jamaica), Hispaniola (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hispaniola) (Haiti (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haiti) and the Dominican Republic (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominican_Republic)), and Puerto Rico (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puerto_Rico). In the Greater Antilles (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_Antilles), the northern Lesser Antilles (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lesser_Antilles), and the Bahamas (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bahamas), they were known as the Lucayans (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucayans). They spoke theTaíno language (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ta%C3%ADno_language) (one of the Arawakan languages (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arawakan_languages)).

[ElCid]

Tiano is to close to Taino to be a QB, Caribbean people can't play football

The Taíno people were among the indigenous people (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indigenous_people_of_the_Americas) of the Caribbean (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caribbean). At the time of European contact in the late 15th century, they were the principal inhabitants of most of Cuba (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuba), Trinidad (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trinidad), Jamaica (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jamaica), Hispaniola (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hispaniola) (Haiti (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haiti) and the Dominican Republic (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominican_Republic)), and Puerto Rico (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puerto_Rico). In the Greater Antilles (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_Antilles), the northern Lesser Antilles (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lesser_Antilles), and the Bahamas (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bahamas), they were known as the Lucayans (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucayans). They spoke theTaíno language (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ta%C3%ADno_language) (one of the Arawakan languages (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arawakan_languages)).

Have you been dipping into the rum this afternoon?

[longtimemocfan]

I think you have two very solid defenses (other than a 76 yard hiccup by the mocs) going up against two very young/fresh/scared/(insert word that means they aren't hitting on all cylinders) offenses. I think it is hard to judge an offense on the first two games performances.

That 76 yard hiccup was done with the entire 2nd team defensive line and linebackers on the field. Not sure why the DC decided to try that, but you can't sub entire units out like that at this level.

[caribbeanhen]

Have you been dipping into the rum this afternoon?

no, don't touch the stuff

[Milktruck74]

That 76 yard hiccup was done with the entire 2nd team defensive line and linebackers on the field. Not sure why the DC decided to try that, but you can't sub entire units out like that at this level.

Yeah, I don't want to make excuses....hopefully he learned something!!!!!

[Milktruck74]

Tiano is to close to Taino to be a QB, Caribbean people can't play football

The Taíno people were among the indigenous people (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indigenous_people_of_the_Americas) of the Caribbean (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caribbean). At the time of European contact in the late 15th century, they were the principal inhabitants of most of Cuba (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuba), Trinidad (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trinidad), Jamaica (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jamaica), Hispaniola (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hispaniola) (Haiti (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haiti) and the Dominican Republic (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominican_Republic)), and Puerto Rico (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puerto_Rico). In the Greater Antilles (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_Antilles), the northern Lesser Antilles (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lesser_Antilles), and the Bahamas (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bahamas), they were known as the Lucayans (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucayans). They spoke theTaíno language (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ta%C3%ADno_language) (one of the Arawakan languages (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arawakan_languages)).


Thanks for the history lesson....He is throwing the ball a little HIGH. xnodx

[JSUSoutherner]

Jamari Hester. Why. Can't. You. CATCH?

[longtimemocfan]

Yeah, I don't want to make excuses....hopefully he learned something!!!!!

He hasn't done it since lol, so let's hope so.

[citdog]

Jamari Hester. Why. Can't. You. CATCH?

Dude has hands like this guy....


http://www.sportsworldcards.com/ekmps/shops/sportsworld/images/rugged-ronnie-garvin-89-wwf-1990-titan-sports-classic-wrestling-trading-card-21794-p.jpg

[JSUSoutherner]

Dude has hands like this guy....


http://www.sportsworldcards.com/ekmps/shops/sportsworld/images/rugged-ronnie-garvin-89-wwf-1990-titan-sports-classic-wrestling-trading-card-21794-p.jpg

No kidding. That last pick was entirely his fault. Horn hit him in the freaking numbers and he acted like he was surprised by it or something.

If they happen to mention the status of Dylan Cline let me know.

[Milktruck74]

Dude has hands like this guy....


http://www.sportsworldcards.com/ekmps/shops/sportsworld/images/rugged-ronnie-garvin-89-wwf-1990-titan-sports-classic-wrestling-trading-card-21794-p.jpg

Breaking out the Hands of Stone Poster....Well Played!!!!! (BTW, was that on the back of your bedroom door in 1987?)

[JSUSoutherner]

I'm pleased by our defensive performance this far. We are stopping the run well but we need to improve in the secondary.

[citdog]

Breaking out the Hands of Stone Poster....Well Played!!!!! (BTW, was that on the back of your bedroom door in 1987?)

Nope,,,,

THIS guy


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTKMxFNqlcQ

[Milktruck74]

RT doesn't return, then the RG goes down.....Ouch!!!!

[Milktruck74]

Nope,,,,

THIS guy


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTKMxFNqlcQ

Space Mountain may be the oldest ride in the park, but it still has the longest line!!!!

[caribbeanhen]

Thanks for the history lesson....He is throwing the ball a little HIGH. xnodx

That name Taino is sacred down here, when I saw it I was like no way, he would be a Puerto Rican hero if we could flip flop the a and the I.... haha, Sorry, I know none of this is means a damn thing up north in the South....

ok back to the game

[Milktruck74]

I had Alyssa Milano!!!! But if I was into dudes in tights, It would have been Flair!!!!

[JSUSoutherner]

JAMARI HESTER DID A THING!!!!

[citdog]

Much better execution by the JSU Field Goal Team.

13-6 JSU

[citdog]

Tiano cannot play in this league making throws like that.

Int returned for TD by JSU

20-6 other gamecocks.

0-4 staring Chatty in the face.

[JSUSoutherner]

Much better execution by the JSU Field Goal Team.

13-6 JSU

DEFENSE!

20-6

And yes, it's great to see we are actually kicking well now.

[URMite]

Breaking out the Hands of Stone Poster....Well Played!!!!! (BTW, was that on the back of your bedroom door in 1987?)
That is hands of stone? I thought this was hands of stone...
http://www.11points.com/images/sicovers/robertoduran.jpg
http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=25943&stc=1

[citdog]

who is the 3rd string guy at Qb for Chattanooga? It's time he sees some snaps.

[JSUSoutherner]

And with that scramble, Tiano almost doubled UTCs rushing total.

[citdog]

The ENTIRE SoCon is licking their chops to play Chattanooga.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

The ENTIRE SoCon is licking their chops to play Chattanooga.

My gut feeling tells me that Chatty is getting ready to go back to being the Chatty of the 90s and 00s.

Russ Huesman is a hell of a coach, and you can't replace him that easily.

[citdog]

My gut feeling tells me that Chatty is getting ready to go back to being the Chatty of the 90s and 00s.

Russ Huesman is a hell of a coach, and you can't replace him that easily.

They replaced him with a dude who barely shaves and it SHOWS.

[caribbeanhen]

They replaced him with a dude who barely shaves and it SHOWS.

it's not baby faces fault that the Tiano people can't play football,

[citdog]

Chatty receivers with alligator arms. They are TIRED of being placed in horrible positions by the Mocs Qb.

[JSUSoutherner]

This game is getting to be some high school drama ****.

[milleniumkat]

Ball game.

[citdog]

The rout is on.

Other Gamecocks 27

Mocs 6

[JSUSoutherner]

Nail meet coffin.

Davidson just embarrassed that corner.

[Milktruck74]

Mocs win 7 this year....of course those 7 are in the SoCon.....We will make the playoffs, in a rebuilding year, and may get another shot at Jax State when we are full strength.

[citdog]

Mocs win 7 this year....of course those 7 are in the SoCon.....We will make the playoffs, in a rebuilding year, and may get another shot at Jax State when we are full strength.

EXACTLY who are you going to beat then? I think you start 0-4.

[JSUSoutherner]

HAGLER HAVE YOURSELF A BALLGAME!

[citdog]

This JSU defense is no more athletic than Wofford, The Citadel, or WCU. Going to be a LONG year for Chattanooga...

[Bisonoline]

JSU has some athletes. But they should be considering they came from the FBS. :D

[Milktruck74]

EXACTLY who are you going to beat then? I think you start 0-4.

We Beat the ****adel..... wanna place a wager on it? Say a avatar change?

[JSUSoutherner]

JSU has some athletes. But they should be considering they came from the FBS. :D
Umm have like 3 starters (if that) from the FBS.

[Milktruck74]

Princess Leah with the interception.

[citdog]

We Beat the ****adel..... wanna place a wager on it? Say a avatar change?

I think you should be worried as hell about UT Martin before you begin talking ****. With how your tranny Qb played today I'd be worried about beating VMI if I was you...

Huesman deserted a sinking ship.

[Bisonwinagn]

This JSU defense is no more athletic than Wofford, The Citadel, or WCU. Going to be a LONG year for Chattanooga...

I'm guessing the QB will help Chatty some when he returns.

[JSUSoutherner]

This center we have in is garbage. Snap the damn ball.

[citdog]

NICE job today by Chattanooga embarrassing the ENTIRE Southern Conference.

[JSUSoutherner]

This center we have in is garbage. Snap the damn ball.
Never mind just noticed our LT is now our C.

I guess that's not as bad.

[Reign of Terrier]

I'm just going to post what I did on terrierfans:

Chattanooga doesn't look good right now. I know that 1) it's only one game 2) Bennefield isn't on the field and 3) Jacksonville State is a good/great team but if they lose game without scoring a touchdown they have problems on offense. I did quick research, and losing to JSU by this margin would be the worst loss to an FCS foe since Huesman's first year. That would be bad because Chattanooga that year had a bare cupboard (didn't stop them from beating us when we were decimated) and the team they lost to made the playoffs. This year, they have a good nucleus of guys coming back. It's only one game, and again JSU is really good, but the "check engine" light has to be lit up right now

[Milktruck74]

I'm just going to post what I did on terrierfans:

Chattanooga doesn't look good right now. I know that 1) it's only one game 2) Bennefield isn't on the field and 3) Jacksonville State is a good/great team but if they lose game without scoring a touchdown they have problems on offense. I did quick research, and losing to JSU by this margin would be the worst loss to an FCS foe since Huesman's first year. That would be bad because Chattanooga that year had a bare cupboard (didn't stop them from beating us when we were decimated) and the team they lost to made the playoffs. This year, they have a good nucleus of guys coming back. It's only one game, and again JSU is really good, but the "check engine" light has to be lit up right now

It'll be interesting to see what the staff does to adjust. They won't show much vs LSU, but TTU will be the real indicator.

[NDB]

NICE job today by Chattanooga embarrassing the ENTIRE FCS.

Corrected for accuracy

[citdog]

It'll be interesting to see what the staff does to adjust. They won't show much vs LSU, but TTU will be the real indicator.

I think Arth might adjust from the teat to the bottle. He got WORKED by a HEAD COACH today.

[Reign of Terrier]

It'll be interesting to see what the staff does to adjust. They won't show much vs LSU, but TTU will be the real indicator.

Looking at the schedule I don't think we'll have any good idea until midseason. TTU is an improving team, but we still don't know how good *they* are

[JSUSoutherner]

UTC with the garbage time TD against the third string D.

[Big Duke]

I was pretty impressed with JSU. Need to work on closing out the game, but it's the first game.

[JSUSoutherner]

I was pretty impressed with JSU. Need to work on closing out the game, but it's the first game.
I thought we closed out pretty well considering the third string was in most of the fourth quarter

[Big Duke]

I was referring to the second and third quarters. I thought you all had the chance to hammer them then and put it out of reach, but had to settle for field goals. I'm not trying to slight you all, good win.

[JSUSoutherner]

I was referring to the second and third quarters. I thought you all had the chance to hammer them then and put it out of reach, but had to settle for field goals. I'm not trying to slight you all, good win.
Oh you mean scoring on drives. Yeah I 110% agree.

[FUBeAR]

So, I was watching the Falcons & enjoying the 1st game in the FABULOUS Mercedes Benz Stadium, but I caught some of the game. Tell me if Chatt ran anything other than these 2 plays:

1) Slow snap from center that the QB struggles to handle which morphs into a bogus zone read action with a predetermined handoff that is so slow developing that the unblocked backside DE tackles the RB for a 3 yard loss.

2) Slow, off-target snap from center at the QB's shins,which he drops, picks up, and then closes his eyes, and chunks it a foot behind a RB or WR, who intentionally drops it rather than get lit up by the Defender who has easily sniffed out the play.

That's all I saw. If the Mocs don't have some plays other than these 2 under their new Coaching Staff, they might need to expand the Playbook.

[cx500d]

I'd like to hear how Chattown saw this game....

[JSUSoutherner]

I'd like to hear how Chattown saw this game....
Blah blah... our starting QB.

Blah blah... Dale Warren.

Blah blah... Post-Huesman depression.

[cx500d]

Blah blah... our starting QB.

Blah blah... Dale Warren.

Blah blah... Post-Huesman depression.

blah blah... wins Natty


FYP

[PaladinFan]

So, I was watching the Falcons & enjoying the 1st game in the FABULOUS Mercedes Benz Stadium, but I caught some of the game. Tell me if Chatt ran anything other than these 2 plays:

1) Slow snap from center that the QB struggles to handle which morphs into a bogus zone read action with a predetermined handoff that is so slow developing that the unblocked backside DE tackles the RB for a 3 yard loss.

2) Slow, off-target snap from center at the QB's shins,which he drops, picks up, and then closes his eyes, and chunks it a foot behind a RB or WR, who intentionally drops it rather than get lit up by the Defender who has easily sniffed out the play.

That's all I saw. If the Mocs don't have some plays other than these 2 under their new Coaching Staff, they might need to expand the Playbook.

Wow. That offense sounds familiar.

UTC doesn't seem to have the Derrick Crain-esque battering ram in between the tackles. Bagley is a good player, but he's a much better player when UTC has someone handling that north-south running game.

[citdog]

Wow. That offense sounds familiar.

UTC doesn't seem to have the Derrick Crain-esque battering ram in between the tackles. Bagley is a good player, but he's a much better player when UTC has someone handling that north-south running game.

But chatty has the tranny from PC....

[Milktruck74]

NotChat Town, but I'll chime in. It wasn't pretty, but our OL looked better than expected. D was as advertised. I said 7 wins this year, I'm going with 8-3 on the regular season with a win in the playoffs for a 9-4 season. We looked alot like a team without an offensive leader.......and that is exactly what we were.

[FUBeAR]

NotChat Town, but I'll chime in. It wasn't pretty, but our OL looked better than expected. D was as advertised. I said 7 wins this year, I'm going with 8-3 on the regular season with a win in the playoffs for a 9-4 season. We looked alot like a team without an offensive leader.......and that is exactly what we were.

I am humbled by your boundless optimism.

As I said, I didn't see much tonight, but what I did see surely didn't make me think "Playoffs & 9-4."

Stay positive LactoseConveyor! I like it!

[RootinFerDukes]

Sorry guys, but that was hands down the most boring FCS kickoff so far.

[longtimemocfan]

Sorry guys, but that was hands down the most boring FCS kickoff so far.

Can't say I don't agree. Both teams having to replace a lot on offense.

[PaladinFan]

NotChat Town, but I'll chime in. It wasn't pretty, but our OL looked better than expected. D was as advertised. I said 7 wins this year, I'm going with 8-3 on the regular season with a win in the playoffs for a 9-4 season. We looked alot like a team without an offensive leader.......and that is exactly what we were.

The downside is that if you look at LSU as an all too likely loss, UTC will be at 0-2 before even starting the SoCon slate. They will likely need to win 7 of 9 to make the post season. Possible, of course, but it does not allow a whole lot of room for error.

UTC's schedule is also backloaded. They will play the other three presumptive title contenders in consecutive games starting at the end of October. Two of those games (Samford and Wofford) will be back to back road contests.

Starting with a likely 0-2 record, and with their three toughest games in the last four weeks of the season, I'd have to think UTC needs to do work on the early-middle portion of their schedule (UT-M, VMI, WCU, Furman, Mercer). Dropping a game in that part of the schedule will put them squarely behind the 8 ball.

[SU DOG]

Sorry guys, but that was hands down the most boring FCS kickoff so far.

It may be small consolation, but the FBS game that followed was a total sleeper. Rice would be an easy win for MANY FCS squads. That 62-7 debacle made the JSU-UTC game look like an exciting cliff-hanger.

[Mocs123]

Congrats to JSU. Your D is the real deal and Roc Thomas is too.

[walliver]

I was amazed at how "plain vanilla" Chatty's offense was. I could understand that kind of play in a money game (D2 or P5), but not in a game like this. Is this the offense Arth plans to run?

Sent from my VK810 4G using Tapatalk

[longtimemocfan]

I was amazed at how "plain vanilla" Chatty's offense was. I could understand that kind of play in a money game (D2 or P5), but not in a game like this. Is this the offense Arth plans to run?

Sent from my VK810 4G using Tapatalk

Not all that surprised. QB making his first collegiate start. Kind of expected that.

[Schism55]

It may be small consolation, but the FBS game that followed was a total sleeper. Rice would be an easy win for MANY FCS squads. That 62-7 debacle made the JSU-UTC game look like an exciting cliff-hanger.
How did Rice get a spot in that game??? How was it not another good Power 5 conference team?

[Reign of Terrier]

Eh, with respect to Chattanooga fans, I think you guys don't really understand what a "down year" is. I mean, don't get me wrong, we all know y'all know what that is pre-Huesman but saying "this is going to be a down year so I predict 8 wins" is not a down year. To put things in perspective, the Mocs have averaged about 8.2 wins in the past 5 years (including the playoffs)

I think this Chattanooga team will win 6 or 7 games. Obviously, I could be wrong and they win 8 (I don't think they'll win more than 8 for the regular season) before(/if) they make the playoffs , but my point here isn't about the win/loss total.

The Southern Conference was *very* competitive last year. Wofford was 7 points away from being 10-1 and 2 scores away from being another mundane 6-5; 10-1 Citadel won 6 games by 8 points or less (not all in the socon); Chattanooga gave every team in the FCS a game (in that they stomped quite a few), even if they lost, and when they won they usually won by double digits; Samford was 7 points away from 9-2...and 7 points away from 5-6.

An off year in the Socon is not 8 wins or 7 wins. An off year is 5 or 6 wins. Or less. Everyone is competitive, and though usually there's one team that is in aggregate a couple scores better than everyone else (Chatt has been that team for the last 4 or so years), the difference between that team and the 2-4th place teams is a span of a couple big plays.

Based upon what I saw last night, I think Chattanooga is going to be in that weird 4th place spot, as Samford was last year. The team that can beat any team in the conference, but still has enough question marks that makes them liable for an upset. That's not an unfair prediction, there's a lot of converging variables; sans Alabama, most teams can't maintain that consistency without one bad year over the course of 5-7. For instance, even App State crashed and burned for a 4-8 season in 2013.

Next year is obviously next year and we can never deduce long term trends in FCS, but based upon the performance I saw last night I don't think Chattanooga is going to be anything better than a bubble or dark horse for the Socon title.

[FUBeAR]

Excellent post YT! Love the parity situation you cited & came hard with the data to back it up. I've missed seeing your good stuff here.

And, though my viewing was only a smattering of plays, I completely agree with your objective assessment of Chatt. I see 6 wins; 7 tops...but I also see a potential rapid death spiral where the new D3 staff 'loses' this Team of very successful FCS Players & MANY FBS Transfers. I think it's CRITICAL that Chatt challenges LSU & solidly defeats UT-Martin in their next 2 games. If they come into Lexington, VA 0-3 and the slightest thing goes wrong early in that VMI game, the Mocs could be in for a VERY "down year."


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[longtimemocfan]

Eh, with respect to Chattanooga fans, I think you guys don't really understand what a "down year" is. I mean, don't get me wrong, we all know y'all know what that is pre-Huesman but saying "this is going to be a down year so I predict 8 wins" is not a down year. To put things in perspective, the Mocs have averaged about 8.2 wins in the past 5 years (including the playoffs)

I think this Chattanooga team will win 6 or 7 games. Obviously, I could be wrong and they win 8 (I don't think they'll win more than 8 for the regular season) before(/if) they make the playoffs , but my point here isn't about the win/loss total.

The Southern Conference was *very* competitive last year. Wofford was 7 points away from being 10-1 and 2 scores away from being another mundane 6-5; 10-1 Citadel won 6 games by 8 points or less (not all in the socon); Chattanooga gave every team in the FCS a game (in that they stomped quite a few), even if they lost, and when they won they usually won by double digits; Samford was 7 points away from 9-2...and 7 points away from 5-6.

An off year in the Socon is not 8 wins or 7 wins. An off year is 5 or 6 wins. Or less. Everyone is competitive, and though usually there's one team that is in aggregate a couple scores better than everyone else (Chatt has been that team for the last 4 or so years), the difference between that team and the 2-4th place teams is a span of a couple big plays.

Based upon what I saw last night, I think Chattanooga is going to be in that weird 4th place spot, as Samford was last year. The team that can beat any team in the conference, but still has enough question marks that makes them liable for an upset. That's not an unfair prediction, there's a lot of converging variables; sans Alabama, most teams can't maintain that consistency without one bad year over the course of 5-7. For instance, even App State crashed and burned for a 4-8 season in 2013.

Next year is obviously next year and we can never deduce long term trends in FCS, but based upon the performance I saw last night I don't think Chattanooga is going to be anything better than a bubble or dark horse for the Socon title.

You could very well be right on with your post. It's going to depend on a lot of things. What kind of record we have before Bennifield returns. How well overall we jell as a team under the coaching staff as the season goes along. Getting Dale Warren back will mean a lot as well. If I were betting a number on wins right now I'd say 7.