Savannah State going back to Division II

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

http://www.wjcl.com/article/breaking-savannah-state-athletics-to-drop-to-division-ii/9269304

Sad, but probably for the best.

[kdinva]

they tried.......I don't know, but if they do have any 1A games signed for 2019 and forward, they most likely will be cancelled/bought out....

[Bisonator]

Should probably go straight to NAIA again.

[DFW HOYA]

The Tigers' records since 2010: 8-68.

[Laker]

Another story about it.

http://www.hbcugameday.com/2017/04/savannah-state-appears-headed-back-to-d2.html

[dgtw]

With their financial issues, it is probably a good move. It also helps the MEAC as it gets them to an even number of 12 (ten football), which will make scheduling a lot easier. The only problem for the conference is that it drops them to five teams for men's golf, with one being an associate member. I think you need six for an autobid.

[bonarae]

Good riddance for the FCS? Yes.

[ASU33]

The Tigers' records since 2010: 8-68.


They weren't exactly hot as a D2 team either. I don't think they've had a wining season since like 1994.

[catamount man]

There's a nice discussion about this over at the Onnidan sports forum. Lot of the SSU alums not happy with the current prez. Good luck to them. GO CATS!!!

[ASU33]

There's a nice discussion about this over at the Onnidan sports forum. Lot of the SSU alums not happy with the current prez. Good luck to them. GO CATS!!!


I wouldn't call it a "Lot" by any stretch. Its the same group led by Willie Walker who aren't happy with the decision. Keep in mind this same group was pushing for Savannah State to go D1 despite being told by both the SWAC and MEAC that they weren't ready for such a move. SSU made the move anyway and was without a conference home for a decade.

[catamount man]

I wouldn't call it a "Lot" by any stretch. Its the same group led by Willie Walker who aren't happy with the decision. Keep in mind this same group was pushing for Savannah State to go D1 despite being told by both the SWAC and MEAC that they weren't ready for such a move. SSU made the move anyway and was without a conference home for a decade.

SSU should fit right in with the SIAC. Lot of close by schools.

[ASU33]

SSU should fit right in with the SIAC. Lot of close by schools.

True. Honestly they should've never left the SIAC.

[citdog]

This is a shame. If done properly Savannah State could have been in the Big South by now. Close by games with plenty of FCS schools and a middling FBS payday at Ga So right down the road.

[DFW HOYA]

Interesting conversations on the Onnidan sports boards suggesting that state politics has a role in this; namely, that the University System of Georgia Board of Regents' consolidation of former HBCU Armstrong State (located in Savannah) into Georgia Southern was a factor. I get it, but Savannah State's woeful record and ongoing financial troubles certainly contributed.

Mergers of HBCU's is a volatile topic. There have been stories for years that Mississippi Valley and Alcorn State were candidates to roll into Jackson State but it would cause too much pushback, as would Southern into LSU. No one wants to see see their school closed, but there are a lot of smaller state schools out there in trouble.

(One could only imagine the artillery that would be set off if someone in Columbia tried to merge The Citadel into the University of South Carolina.)

[citdog]

Interesting conversations on the Onnidan sports boards suggesting that state politics has a role in this; namely, that the University System of Georgia Board of Regents' consolidation of former HBCU Armstrong State (located in Savannah) into Georgia Southern was a factor. I get it, but Savannah State's woeful record and ongoing financial troubles certainly contributed.

Mergers of HBCU's is a volatile topic. There have been stories for years that Mississippi Valley and Alcorn State were candidates to roll into Jackson State but it would cause too much pushback, as would Southern into LSU. No one wants to see see their school closed, but there are a lot of smaller state schools out there in trouble.

(One could only imagine the artillery that would be set off if someone in Columbia tried to merge The Citadel into the University of South Carolina.)


https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2a/The_burning_of_Columbia%2C_South_Carolina%2C_Febru ary_17%2C_1865.jpg

[DFW HOYA]

My correction from above: Armstrong State was not a HBCU.

[ASU33]

Interesting conversations on the Onnidan sports boards suggesting that state politics has a role in this; namely, that the University System of Georgia Board of Regents' consolidation of former HBCU Armstrong State (located in Savannah) into Georgia Southern was a factor. I get it, but Savannah State's woeful record and ongoing financial troubles certainly contributed.

Mergers of HBCU's is a volatile topic. There have been stories for years that Mississippi Valley and Alcorn State were candidates to roll into Jackson State but it would cause too much pushback, as would Southern into LSU. No one wants to see see their school closed, but there are a lot of smaller state schools out there in trouble.

(One could only imagine the artillery that would be set off if someone in Columbia tried to merge The Citadel into the University of South Carolina.)

That is an underlying problem. Keep in mind Armstrong was a community college until the mid 60s while Savannah State has been up and a running since 1890. Armstrong being turned into a 4 year college cause all kinds of hell. It was rooted in racism and bigotry but Savannah State has given the state plenty of ammunition though. Savannah State has two problems. One being the state and the other being an administration that can't seem to get out of their own way.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Remember when the Celebration Bowl money and "exposure" was supposed to make the MEAC so attractive that finacially troubled schools like SSU would be fools to reclassify to D-II?

[ASU33]

Remember when the Celebration Bowl money and "exposure" was supposed to make the MEAC so attractive that finacially troubled schools like SSU would be fools to reclassify to D-II?

A Celebration Bowl plus some wouldn't help Savannah State. Leaving the SIAC hurt them badly, especially since for about a decade they had no conference home. Savannah State drew well with SIAC rivals Clark-Atlanta, Morehouse, Morris Brown, Fort Valley State, Albany State, Tuskegee, and Miles on the schedule. Those games would draw over 10,000+ with a significant amount of tailgate traffic also. Savannah State also had 2-3 classic games that they would play in yearly including one against us but once the program declined, the fan base did to and Savannah State was dropped from those games. SSU was typically ranked in the top 5 as far as attendance at the D2 level but it's been 15+ years now since they've averaged over 5,000 per game. And Savannah was once the school who the fire Marshall would have to turn people away during homecoming and a few rivalry games.

[Bucs2016]

This is a shame. If done properly Savannah State could have been in the Big South by now. Close by games with plenty of FCS schools and a middling FBS payday at Ga So right down the road.

That program is such a disaster i dont think even we would've taken them. We wanted Jacksonville more and would probably pursue Newberry or Wingate to move up way before Savannah State.

[Bucs2016]

A Celebration Bowl plus some wouldn't help Savannah State. Leaving the SIAC hurt them badly, especially since for about a decade they had no conference home. Savannah State drew well with SIAC rivals Clark-Atlanta, Morehouse, Morris Brown, Fort Valley State, Albany State, Tuskegee, and Miles on the schedule. Those games would draw over 10,000+ with a significant amount of tailgate traffic also. Savannah State also had 2-3 classic games that they would play in yearly including one against us but once the program declined, the fan base did to and Savannah State was dropped from those games. SSU was typically ranked in the top 5 as far as attendance at the D2 level but it's been 15+ years now since they've averaged over 5,000 per game. And Savannah was once the school who the fire Marshall would have to turn people away during homecoming and a few rivalry games.

Winning fixes everything. They just dont win. My school showed you dont need a stadium or big crowds to win big. Hard to imagine it would be hard to recruit to Savannah. Great city. SSU reminds me of where CSU was in 1992. But their inertia is going the opposite way.

[WileECoyote06]

That program is such a disaster i dont think even we would've taken them. We wanted Jacksonville more and would probably pursue Newberry or Wingate to move up way before Savannah State.

According to some sources, the Big South would not even invite a good program from the MEAC.

As for Savannah State, if their situation is that dire, I applaud them for making a tough decision.

[seelarke]

Could there be another school on the move back down? Presbyterian College's AD job posting doesn't mention Big South Conference or what Division the BlueHose play in.

[Bucs2016]

According to some sources, the Big South would not even invite a good program from the MEAC.

As for Savannah State, if their situation is that dire, I applaud them for making a tough decision.

Probably wouldnt. Depends who the team was. SC State would maybe get considered just due to geography.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

My understanding is that the Big South actively considered at least a couple MEAC schools for membership.

[WestCoastAggie]

Probably wouldnt. Depends who the team was. SC State would maybe get considered just due to geography.

Nope... Y'all don't want to be associated with "those" schools, according to your Presidents.

[Bucs2016]

Nope... Y'all don't want to be associated with "those" schools, according to your Presidents.

Can you show me that quote? Because we have scheduled Norfolk St, Howard, Savannah State, SC State, etc and travelled TO them all. For us to not want to be associated with them we sure do generously travel to their place to play them a lot.

Sorry. But unless you can quote it I have no tolerance for idiots who constantly race bait and/or wake up every day with their Racism Binoculars hunting and scanning the horizon for their next victimhood opportunity.

Of course, we'd like to add a team who can maybe actually WIN a playoff game. So maybe thats why MEAC teams arent at the top of our list.

[Bucs2016]

My understanding is that the Big South actively considered at least a couple MEAC schools for membership.

I think SC State would be a great fit but I dont know if they'd want to leave the MEAC. Major conferences like to expand their footprint due to TV markets but FCS doesnt have that issue. Distance creates higher travel budgets. So I think the Big South would focus on schools in states we are already in.

If Valdosta ever moved up they'd be a great football addition.

[aceinthehole]

Personally, I think the NEC should seriously explore adding 2 of the northern members of the MEAC.

Delaware State and Morgan State are within our footprint and would bolster NEC membership to 12 schools, of which 8 which would play football (plus Duquesne makes a perfect 9-team, 8-game schedule).

1. Bryant #
2. Central Connecticut #
3. Fairleigh Dickenson
4. LIU-Brooklyn
5. Sacred Heart #
6. St. Francis Brooklyn
7. Saint Francis U #
8. Robert Morris #
9. Mt. St. Mary's
10. Wagner #
----
11. Delaware State #
12. Morgan State #
----
+ Duquesne #

[ASU33]

I can definitely see Delaware State in the NEC.

[WileECoyote06]

Can you show me that quote? Because we have scheduled Norfolk St, Howard, Savannah State, SC State, etc and travelled TO them all. For us to not want to be associated with them we sure do generously travel to their place to play them a lot.

Sorry. But unless you can quote it I have no tolerance for idiots who constantly race bait and/or wake up every day with their Racism Binoculars hunting and scanning the horizon for their next victimhood opportunity.

Of course, we'd like to add a team who can maybe actually WIN a playoff game. So maybe thats why MEAC teams arent at the top of our list.

You're not going to find any of these conversations on the record. lol

[WileECoyote06]

I can definitely see Delaware State in the NEC.
Me too. I don't see Morgan State leaving though.

[aceinthehole]

Me too. I don't see Morgan State leaving though.

Any reason why Morgan State wouldn't consider an offer, especially if they were joined by DSU?

Coppin State and MD-Eastern Shore are also in the NEC "footprint" but because they both don't play football, I'm not so sure the NEC would or should be interested.

[WileECoyote06]

Any reason why Morgan State wouldn't consider an offer, especially if they were joined by DSU?

Coppin State and MD-Eastern Shore are also in the NEC "footprint" but because they both don't play football, I'm not so sure the NEC would or should be interested.

I don't think Morgan would like to leave its top rivals, Coppin State, and Howard. Also Morgan State, in my opinion, seems different culturally from Delaware State. To explain it fully, I'd have to also explain cultural differences in the regions that the MEAC covers; and the history and current status of HBCUs; and that would take a while.

[ASU33]

I don't think Morgan would like to leave its top rivals, Coppin State, and Howard. Also Morgan State, in my opinion, seems different culturally from Delaware State. To explain it fully, I'd have to also explain cultural differences in the regions that the MEAC covers; and the history and current status of HBCUs; and that would take a while.

Hey WileE any idea on why it's so hard for DSU to get support? I see that their football attendance averages have been VERY bad for a while, like top 5 bad. I would think a school in that area could at least get 2k in the stadium per ball game.

[Bucs2016]

You're not going to find any of these conversations on the record. lol

Yes because they didnt happen. Its sad some people whip out the Racism Binoculars so often, hunting that opportunity to claim victimhood.

[WileECoyote06]

Hey WileE any idea on why it's so hard for DSU to get support? I see that their football attendance averages have been VERY bad for a while, like top 5 bad. I would think a school in that area could at least get 2k in the stadium per ball game.

Alumni Stadium only holds 6000; Delaware State hasn't been good in a decade and Dover isn't very big. That's all I got. xdontknowx

[ASU33]

Alumni Stadium only holds 6000; Delaware State hasn't been good in a decade and Dover isn't very big. That's all I got. xdontknowx

Works for mexthumbsupx

[WileECoyote06]

Works for mexthumbsupx

Also, I forgot I think Del State football is still under sanctions from the equestrian issue. They don't offer a full complement of football scholarships.

[ASU33]

Also, I forgot I think Del State football is still under sanctions from the equestrian issue. They don't offer a full complement of football scholarships.

Wait..........DSU cheated "in horses"? Wow! Just Wow!xeyebrowx

[WestCoastAggie]

Can you show me that quote? Because we have scheduled Norfolk St, Howard, Savannah State, SC State, etc and travelled TO them all. For us to not want to be associated with them we sure do generously travel to their place to play them a lot.

Sorry. But unless you can quote it I have no tolerance for idiots who constantly race bait and/or wake up every day with their Racism Binoculars hunting and scanning the horizon for their next victimhood opportunity.

Of course, we'd like to add a team who can maybe actually WIN a playoff game. So maybe thats why MEAC teams arent at the top of our list.

No race baiting from me. This is strictly sports.

Best I can tell you is NC A&T's AD (whose white Mormon man) mentioned in 2014/15 that all options were on the table as far as conference realignment. This was before the Celebration Bowl was finalized. I decided to probe a little deeper, being an Aggie booster and all, and hit up my connections.

My connections let me know that A&T's AD and the Big South had talks about a pending Invite. Hampton was also considered for an invite. What was told to me is that while schools, like likely your institution were "open" to an HBCU joining the Big South, Liberty would be steadfast against wanting to associate with schools like Hampton and A&T in a conference.

Thusly, Liberty promoted essentially a block of a potential vote for invites and nothing occurred.

There wasn't a article of this occurring because there wasn't any interest in the invite.

That's the best explanation I got for my last post in this thread. The ironic thing in all of this is the schools that "blocked" this move from happening is leaving the Big South. It remains to be seen what occurs in the future.

[Laker]

Thusly, Liberty promoted essentially a block of a potential vote for invites and nothing occurred.

So with Liberty now gone, an invite is more likely to happen if a MEAC school would be interested. I think we will have a whole bunch of changes in the next decade.

[WestCoastAggie]

So with Liberty now gone, an invite is more likely to happen if a MEAC school would be interested. I think we will have a whole bunch of changes in the next decade.

We will see. SSU leaving the MEAC is really "meh..." as they really don't move the needle among the Co-CEO Council (Presidents) of the MEAC.

However, more traditional MEAC "powers" have talked about pulling an SSU recently. It remains to be seen what happens in the next 3-5 years.

The Celebration Bowl is keeping the MEAC members cooperative and aligned. Right now, I'd be shocked if a MEAC school like A&T accepts an invite from another conference unless schools like FAMU and SC State leave for whatever reason.

However, I do suspect that the Big South will have "discussions" with HBCU's and not have as much push back from its members now since Liberty is gone.

[WileECoyote06]

Wait..........DSU cheated "in horses"? Wow! Just Wow!xeyebrowx

Nah not cheating. DSU tried to eliminate the program back in 2010 and the ladies sued under Title IX. They won and the equestrian team was restored with 15 scholarships. 13 of the scholarships came from football and 2 from men's basketball. I am not sure if this is still the case however.

[WileECoyote06]

No race baiting from me. This is strictly sports.

Best I can tell you is NC A&T's AD (whose white Mormon man) mentioned in 2014/15 that all options were on the table as far as conference realignment. This was before the Celebration Bowl was finalized. I decided to probe a little deeper, being an Aggie booster and all, and hit up my connections.

My connections let me know that A&T's AD and the Big South had talks about a pending Invite. Hampton was also considered for an invite. What was told to me is that while schools, like likely your institution were "open" to an HBCU joining the Big South, Liberty would be steadfast against wanting to associate with schools like Hampton and A&T in a conference.

Thusly, Liberty promoted essentially a block of a potential vote for invites and nothing occurred.

There wasn't a article of this occurring because there wasn't any interest in the invite.

That's the best explanation I got for my last post in this thread. The ironic thing in all of this is the schools that "blocked" this move from happening is leaving the Big South. It remains to be seen what occurs in the future.

That's still race-baiting! xbawlingxxsmiley_wix

[ASU33]

We will see. SSU leaving the MEAC is really "meh..." as they really don't move the needle among the Co-CEO Council (Presidents) of the MEAC.

However, more traditional MEAC "powers" have talked about pulling an SSU recently. It remains to be seen what happens in the next 3-5 years.

The Celebration Bowl is keeping the MEAC members cooperative and aligned. Right now, I'd be shocked if a MEAC school like A&T accepts an invite from another conference unless schools like FAMU and SC State leave for whatever reason.

However, I do suspect that the Big South will have "discussions" with HBCU's and not have as much push back from its members now since Liberty is gone.


Both us and Alabama A&M have been interested in the MEAC for sometime. It'll be interesting to see if those talks come up again.

[WestCoastAggie]

Both us and Alabama A&M have been interested in the MEAC for sometime. It'll be interesting to see if those talks come up again.

Really? When these parties speak the first time? I know the Commissioner is an Alcorn grad and Bethune/FAMU
would love having the Bama's back consistently to push ticket sales and save on travel.

But it's about 8-9 hours from Montgomery to Greensboro.

[ASU33]

Really? When these parties speak the first time? I know the Commissioner is an Alcorn grad and Bethune/FAMU
would love having the Bama's back consistently to push ticket sales and save on travel.

But it's about 8-9 hours from Montgomery to Greensboro.

back in 2011-12 there were some "googly" eyes made but I'm sure how deep conversation went bit we were definitely interested in heading to the MEAC. This was all pre-Celebration Bowl though and we were very interested in the FCS playoffs. We even moved the Turkey Day Classic up a week to be playoff eligible for a few years.

[Bucs2016]

No race baiting from me. This is strictly sports.

Best I can tell you is NC A&T's AD (whose white Mormon man) mentioned in 2014/15 that all options were on the table as far as conference realignment. This was before the Celebration Bowl was finalized. I decided to probe a little deeper, being an Aggie booster and all, and hit up my connections.

My connections let me know that A&T's AD and the Big South had talks about a pending Invite. Hampton was also considered for an invite. What was told to me is that while schools, like likely your institution were "open" to an HBCU joining the Big South, Liberty would be steadfast against wanting to associate with schools like Hampton and A&T in a conference.

Thusly, Liberty promoted essentially a block of a potential vote for invites and nothing occurred.

There wasn't a article of this occurring because there wasn't any interest in the invite.

That's the best explanation I got for my last post in this thread. The ironic thing in all of this is the schools that "blocked" this move from happening is leaving the Big South. It remains to be seen what occurs in the future.

Sooo....Liberty wanted to block HBCU shools from their heaviest recruiting area (VA/NC/DC) from joining? You phrased it as "those schools" with the intent of alluding to a discrimination theme. That was how it sounded anyway. If Liberty opposed the HBCUs in their recruiting footprint from joining it was due to that...recruiting. Same reason CSU wouldnt support SC State or Savannah State. Same nearby recruiting areas.

I would think the Big South would be thrilled to get one of the Tennessee or Florida HBCUs since we have no presence there but we recruit there a lot.

[Bucs2016]

We will see. SSU leaving the MEAC is really "meh..." as they really don't move the needle among the Co-CEO Council (Presidents) of the MEAC.

However, more traditional MEAC "powers" have talked about pulling an SSU recently. It remains to be seen what happens in the next 3-5 years.

The Celebration Bowl is keeping the MEAC members cooperative and aligned. Right now, I'd be shocked if a MEAC school like A&T accepts an invite from another conference unless schools like FAMU and SC State leave for whatever reason.

However, I do suspect that the Big South will have "discussions" with HBCU's and not have as much push back from its members now since Liberty is gone.

If it competes close to home with recruiting then Big South teams will push back. If NC A&T got some interest I assume Gardner Webb would oppose it. Whereas we'd welcome NCAT but not SC State.

[Professor]

Interesting thoughts?

I doubt the Big South is going to bring in a HBCU unless their auto bid is jeopardy. As it was when they were flirting with A&T

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Keep in mind that Liberty is STILL a member of the Big South. They just don't compete in FCS football. They're going to be FBS independent.

Having said that, if that's true about Liberty blocking NCAT and Hampton from pursuing membership, what sort of stick is up Liberty's ass such that they wouldn't accept an HBCU in their conference? Anyone who is OK with Presbyterian joining in football but not NCAT needs to have their heads checked.

[Bucs2016]

Keep in mind that Liberty is STILL a member of the Big South. They just don't compete in FCS football. They're going to be FBS independent.

Having said that, if that's true about Liberty blocking NCAT and Hampton from pursuing membership, what sort of stick is up Liberty's ass such that they wouldn't accept an HBCU in their conference? Anyone who is OK with Presbyterian joining in football but not NCAT needs to have their heads checked.

Its recruiting. PC and Liberty dont go after the same kids. LU wouldn't want any VA school in who they cant out-recruit. They were ok with VMI. Different target recruits and VMI couldnt compete. But Hampton/Norfolk/Howard can.

If SC State was interested then CSU and PC would oppose it. We play HBCUs often, usually on the road too. Its awesome. Great football environments. But right now...we can offer a shot at the playoffs. HBCUs can't. Thats a recruiting advantage.

[Bucs2016]

Interesting thoughts?

I doubt the Big South is going to bring in a HBCU unless their auto bid is jeopardy. As it was when they were flirting with A&T

I also think the Big South desperately wants stability. And taking any HBCU team comes with the possibility that they may eventually want to go back to an HBCU comference. And thats understandable due to the long history.

So what if we got SC State or someone and in 5 years their alumni wanted to go bagk to the MEAC?

Big South needs teams who will be here for decades.

[WestCoastAggie]

Keep in mind that Liberty is STILL a member of the Big South. They just don't compete in FCS football. They're going to be FBS independent.

Having said that, if that's true about Liberty blocking NCAT and Hampton from pursuing membership, what sort of stick is up Liberty's ass such that they wouldn't accept an HBCU in their conference? Anyone who is OK with Presbyterian joining in football but not NCAT needs to have their heads checked.

What's weird is Liberty viewed A&T and Hampton the same way UVA and Va. Tech viewed Liberty.

[citdog]

Keep in mind that Liberty is STILL a member of the Big South. They just don't compete in FCS football. They're going to be FBS independent.

Having said that, if that's true about Liberty blocking NCAT and Hampton from pursuing membership, what sort of stick is up Liberty's ass such that they wouldn't accept an HBCU in their conference? Anyone who is OK with Presbyterian joining in football but not NCAT needs to have their heads checked.

PC endowment is 99 million

NC a&t endowment 46 million

WHO needs their head checked again??

[WestCoastAggie]

Sooo....Liberty wanted to block HBCU shools from their heaviest recruiting area (VA/NC/DC) from joining? You phrased it as "those schools" with the intent of alluding to a discrimination theme. That was how it sounded anyway. If Liberty opposed the HBCUs in their recruiting footprint from joining it was due to that...recruiting. Same reason CSU wouldnt support SC State or Savannah State. Same nearby recruiting areas.

I would think the Big South would be thrilled to get one of the Tennessee or Florida HBCUs since we have no presence there but we recruit there a lot.

My apologies on the that statement from earlier in this thread. I am definitely wanting to avoid any kind of politics on the sports board.

What Irked me about that entire situation with the flirtation with the Big South was with Liberty. With their aspirations to join FBS, why would they even care about us joining?

It's all moot now anyway unless a school like SC State or Norfolk State cannot keep their heads above water.

[WestCoastAggie]

I also think the Big South desperately wants stability. And taking any HBCU team comes with the possibility that they may eventually want to go back to an HBCU comference. And thats understandable due to the long history.

So what if we got SC State or someone and in 5 years their alumni wanted to go bagk to the MEAC?

Big South needs teams who will be here for decades.

Most HBCU teams are committed for the long haul in Division One. When looking at potential MEAC members joining other conferences, you have to look at their money trail.

SSU tried to make it work on a shoe-string budget. It should've never came down to that, especially with their low Athletics Fee.

[ASU33]

Most HBCU teams are committed for the long haul in Division One. When looking at potential MEAC members joining other conferences, you have to look at their money trail.

SSU tried to make it work on a shoe-string budget. It should've never came down to that, especially with their low Athletics Fee.

Very true. Savannah State was turned down by both the MEAC and SWAC back in 2001 and then again around 2005-wish before finally getting into the MEAC in 2010.

[Bucs2016]

My apologies on the that statement from earlier in this thread. I am definitely wanting to avoid any kind of politics on the sports board.

What Irked me about that entire situation with the flirtation with the Big South was with Liberty. With their aspirations to join FBS, why would they even care about us joining?

It's all moot now anyway unless a school like SC State or Norfolk State cannot keep their heads above water.

No problem man simple misunderstanding. Im with ya, no politics!

On to Liberty....they've always been like that. They think they are God's gift to the Big South and that only their opinion matters. And...they have been a major influence on the conference so they do/did have a big voice.

I dont think they truly felt FBS would accept them. Many are still surprised. Its a terrible move for them. So I think they have had a foot on each side of the fence.

Another fun note: Having been a player at CSU and playing at Liberty twice...i can say (and most agree) that they were the rudest nastiest most profane fan base we ever faced. Not Wofford or Citadel or SC State or South Florida or ETSU, Samford, Elon, VMI or anyone else. And it wasnt even close.

For a staunch religious campus I was shocked at how bad their fans were.

[Bucs2016]

Most HBCU teams are committed for the long haul in Division One. When looking at potential MEAC members joining other conferences, you have to look at their money trail.

SSU tried to make it work on a shoe-string budget. It should've never came down to that, especially with their low Athletics Fee.

Yes but would they want to one day go back to an HBCU conference? Those conferences have very deep and rich football history, not to mention the band rivalries (we played at SC State and that was a hell of a show!). I wouldn't blame them if they joined the Big South and then years later they and their alumni wanted to go back. I think that would be a consideration. Especially if it was a long time historic member like NC A&T or SC State. The odds of one day losing them would be higher than it would for, say, Jacksonville or some D2 moving up like North Alabama is.

[DoWe]

No problem man simple misunderstanding. Im with ya, no politics!

On to Liberty....they've always been like that. They think they are God's gift to the Big South and that only their opinion matters. And...they have been a major influence on the conference so they do/did have a big voice.

I dont think they truly felt FBS would accept them. Many are still surprised. Its a terrible move for them. So I think they have had a foot on each side of the fence.

Another fun note: Having been a player at CSU and playing at Liberty twice...i can say (and most agree) that they were the rudest nastiest most profane fan base we ever faced. Not Wofford or Citadel or SC State or South Florida or ETSU, Samford, Elon, VMI or anyone else. And it wasnt even close.

For a staunch religious campus I was shocked at how bad their fans were.

By last count zero FBS conferences have accepted Liberty. They are moving to FBS as an independent because no conference extended them an invite. I doubt it's a terrible move for them, especially if they get to keep their other sports in the Big South. Liberty keeping their non-revenue sports in the Big South is not one foot on each side of the fence, it's being smart about containing travel costs for non-revenue sports.

[Bucs2016]

By last count zero FBS conferences have accepted Liberty. They are moving to FBS as an independent because no conference extended them an invite. I doubt it's a terrible move for them, especially if they get to keep their other sports in the Big South. Liberty keeping their non-revenue sports in the Big South is not one foot on each side of the fence, it's being smart about containing travel costs for non-revenue sports.

Yeah thats what I meant. Their move was improbable but their Independent move got approved.

Its a terrible move for Liberty football. They're gonna be awful. Their facilities are excellent by FCS standards. But Lynchburg is boring and their strict rules arent appealing to a lot of 18 year old football recruits. In FCS their facilities and very reasonable shot at a Big South championship were enough to win some over. But in FBS they'll be subpar on facilities, subpar on college atmosphere, drastically subpar on history, and they'll offer no chance to win a conference championship. . Im not sure how they plan to compete with UVA, Va Tech, etc. We see even Notre Dame has trouble these days with strict campus rules. So does BYU. But their rich history gets them by. Liberty? Nope. They're gonna be a 2-3 win program for the next decade.

[ASU33]

Yeah thats what I meant. Their move was improbable but their Independent move got approved.

Its a terrible move for Liberty football. They're gonna be awful. Their facilities are excellent by FCS standards. But Lynchburg is boring and their strict rules arent appealing to a lot of 18 year old football recruits. In FCS their facilities and very reasonable shot at a Big South championship were enough to win some over. But in FBS they'll be subpar on facilities, subpar on college atmosphere, drastically subpar on history, and they'll offer no chance to win a conference championship. . Im not sure how they plan to compete with UVA, Va Tech, etc. We see even Notre Dame has trouble these days with strict campus rules. So does BYU. But their rich history gets them by. Liberty? Nope. They're gonna be a 2-3 win program for the next decade.

I question the decision of Liberty for making the move without a conference home. Liberty isn't Notre Dame or BYU who both have a national following. Liberty will have trouble getting quality opponents to come to Lynchburg. There's all the potential for Liberty to be in their own Savannah State type situation within a few years.

[walliver]

I doubt Liberty will have trouble with recruiting at the G5 level, but scheduling, especially home-and-home will be difficult.

Although Liberty's religious environment may be a turn-off for many athletes, it may be seen as a big positive by their mommas. The FBS label, tenuous as it will be, will give them a slight advantage over Gardner-Webb and CSU among some recruits ... although retention may become an issue.

[DoWe]

Liberty's case is unique but every time a FCS moves to FBS plenty of posters around here predict doom and gloom for the program. Nonetheless, few if any (I think Idaho) have ever returned to FCS. The problem with FBS conferences like the Sun Belt and CUSA are travel expenses and classroom time missed by sports other than football. Liberty won't have that problem if they remain in the Big South for those sports. I am no fan of Liberty, but I think they have things figured out.

[Bucs2016]

I doubt Liberty will have trouble with recruiting at the G5 level, but scheduling, especially home-and-home will be difficult.

Although Liberty's religious environment may be a turn-off for many athletes, it may be seen as a big positive by their mommas. The FBS label, tenuous as it will be, will give them a slight advantage over Gardner-Webb and CSU among some recruits ... although retention may become an issue.

You're right for FCS talent but FBS? Playing in such a beautiful huge stadium (by FCS standards) appeals to FCS kids who may be looking at Liberty vs CSU, PC, Gardner Webb, etc. But now to be competitive they need to compete with BYU, Notre Dame, TCU, SMU, Va Tech, Kentucky, App State, etc. Other religious schools and other mid Atlantic area teams.

In FBS they'll have:
A smallish stadium
A boring city
No history
No conference

Its gonna be a disaster.

[Bucs2016]

Liberty's case is unique but every time a FCS moves to FBS plenty of posters around here predict doom and gloom for the program. Nonetheless, few if any (I think Idaho) have ever returned to FCS. The problem with FBS conferences like the Sun Belt and CUSA are travel expenses and classroom time missed by sports other than football. Liberty won't have that problem if they remain in the Big South for those sports. I am no fan of Liberty, but I think they have things figured out.

I don't. I knew App State and Ga Southern would do well. And so will Coastal. But they have things Liberty doesnt. They match them in facilities. Beat them in fun town. Beat them in history. Beat them in chance to win a conference championship ring.

Honestly I truly think The Citadel would fare much better in FBS with the Sun Belt than Liberty will in Independent or as Sun Belt (hypothetical). Not that Citadel wants to move up. But their dynamics would offer more chances of success than LU has. Same with James Madison, NDSU, Montana, etc.

LU is gonna beg to come back to FCS within 10 years.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

One thing you're forgetting about Liberty is that as an independent they will have no bowl tie-ins. That's a big recruiting loss. As much as we make fun of the Sun Belt and MAC, they at least have a postseason shot for all of their schools if they make .500. Liberty would probably have to go 7-4 or 8-3 to do it, mostly on the road. It will not be easy.

Of course, the Sun Belt and MAC members pay through the teeth for those bowl opportunities, which Liberty won't have to pay. But as people have said, scheduling will be a bear.

[SENOREIDA]

I don't. I knew App State and Ga Southern would do well. And so will Coastal. But they have things Liberty doesnt. They match them in facilities. Beat them in fun town. Beat them in history. Beat them in chance to win a conference championship ring.

Honestly I truly think The Citadel would fare much better in FBS with the Sun Belt than Liberty will in Independent or as Sun Belt (hypothetical). Not that Citadel wants to move up. But their dynamics would offer more chances of success than LU has. Same with James Madison, NDSU, Montana, etc.

LU is gonna beg to come back to FCS within 10 years.
Did we just become friends? xeyebrowx

Pretty spot on

[Anthony215]

I'm in the minority who believes going FBS is going to pay off for Liberty. I think they'll be able to play lower level P5 teams in Lynchburg while also finding a way to schedule Home/Home with the service academies and probably 3/1 deals with BYU & ND. They'll also be in play for Home and Home with G5 members in the Sun Belt, MAC, AAC and CUSA. Liberty will find a way to get decent recruits and I believe they already had plans for a renovation of their stadium to get it up to 30 and 40k with expansion up to 60k (doubt they'll ever get that big enough to warrant 60k seats). Ideally they'll probably hope to win 6-7 games annually once they're fully a FBS member to get their application approved for either CUSA or the AAC. Cincy, UConn, Houston and Memphis are always mentioned as teams considered by the Big 12 and ACC for expansion and when that happens Liberty will be in position to apply for their spots in the AAC along with ODU, Marshall, MTSU and UAB.

[aceinthehole]

I'm in the minority who believes going FBS is going to pay off for Liberty. I think they'll be able to play lower level P5 teams in Lynchburg while also finding a way to schedule Home/Home with the service academies and probably 3/1 deals with BYU & ND. They'll also be in play for Home and Home with G5 members in the Sun Belt, MAC, AAC and CUSA. Liberty will find a way to get decent recruits and I believe they already had plans for a renovation of their stadium to get it up to 30 and 40k with expansion up to 60k (doubt they'll ever get that big enough to warrant 60k seats). Ideally they'll probably hope to win 6-7 games annually once they're fully a FBS member to get their application approved for either CUSA or the AAC. Cincy, UConn, Houston and Memphis are always mentioned as teams considered by the Big 12 and ACC for expansion and when that happens Liberty will be in position to apply for their spots in the AAC along with ODU, Marshall, MTSU and UAB.

They are NEVER getting HOME games vs. ND. Maybe they get BYU in a 2 or 3 for 1 deal.

Maybe they can get Army, but I doubt that Navy or Air Force will play in Lynchburg, when they can play at other places in the area, such as ODU, UVA, VT, UNC-Charlotte, or any ACC or SEC school.

[Anthony215]

They are NEVER getting HOME games vs. ND. Maybe they get BYU in a 2 or 3 for 1 deal.

Maybe they can get Army, but I doubt that Navy or Air Force will play in Lynchburg, when they can play at other places in the area, such as ODU, UVA, VT, UNC-Charlotte, or any ACC or SEC school.

Air Force & Navy could see them as a easy win for being bowl eligible. Navy has traveled to UMASS a sorry FBS program playing in a empty stadium why not go to Lynchburg lol.

[Laker]

It is hard for any independent besides Notre Dame to fill a schedule where you can still get enough home games. Liberty won't have a lot of those against top opponents.

[Bucs2016]

Did we just become friends? xeyebrowx

Pretty spot on

YEP! (Name the movie)

Coastal will do fine. Good state for recruiting. Great town to go to college in. Yall have some banners and rings from the past decade to show off. I can see CCU eventually competing to take East Carolina/Wake Forest caliber recruits. Maybe even steal a few 3* types who may pick Myrtle Beach over a career as a USC/Clemson backup.

But in the end...yall still lost your last 2 to us! There goes the friendship dang it!

[Bucs2016]

I'm in the minority who believes going FBS is going to pay off for Liberty. I think they'll be able to play lower level P5 teams in Lynchburg while also finding a way to schedule Home/Home with the service academies and probably 3/1 deals with BYU & ND. They'll also be in play for Home and Home with G5 members in the Sun Belt, MAC, AAC and CUSA. Liberty will find a way to get decent recruits and I believe they already had plans for a renovation of their stadium to get it up to 30 and 40k with expansion up to 60k (doubt they'll ever get that big enough to warrant 60k seats). Ideally they'll probably hope to win 6-7 games annually once they're fully a FBS member to get their application approved for either CUSA or the AAC. Cincy, UConn, Houston and Memphis are always mentioned as teams considered by the Big 12 and ACC for expansion and when that happens Liberty will be in position to apply for their spots in the AAC along with ODU, Marshall, MTSU and UAB.

Notre Dame will NOT play @Lynchburg. Go ahead and chisel that one in stone.

[Bucs2016]

Air Force & Navy could see them as a easy win for being bowl eligible. Navy has traveled to UMASS a sorry FBS program playing in a empty stadium why not go to Lynchburg lol.

They played @UMass because its in Boston. Could do a whole thread on why...but thats why.

[Bucs2016]

So who will Liberty get home and home with? Well App State. ASU sees them as a win and they want to recruit the VA area more. They might get one with one of the less prestigious religious schools in Texas like TCU or SMU (prestigious compared to BYU or ND).

They have the old Baylor AD so he has a few personal ties to that area and conference. So maybe like Kansas for a 3/1 or something.

They'll try to recruit kids who cant make the cut at Va Tech/UVA and other regional FBS. But so will App State and WKU. Marshall. Their big beautiful stadium is now subpar so I dont know what the draw will be.

[DoWe]

So who will Liberty get home and home with? Well App State. ASU sees them as a win and they want to recruit the VA area more. They might get one with one of the less prestigious religious schools in Texas like TCU or SMU (prestigious compared to BYU or ND).

They have the old Baylor AD so he has a few personal ties to that area and conference. So maybe like Kansas for a 3/1 or something.

They'll try to recruit kids who cant make the cut at Va Tech/UVA and other regional FBS. But so will App State and WKU. Marshall. Their big beautiful stadium is now subpar so I dont know what the draw will be.

Which begs the question what was their "draw" as a member of the Big South? No offense, but the Big South was and is a mediocre FCS conference at best, and I don't recall Liberty dominating Big South football. Liberty's move is purely ego-driven. They intimidated the NCAA into whatever waiver the NCAA wisely granted them. They are moving to FBS because that's where they want to be. Their only realistic need for the Big South is as a home for their other sports. That's reality. Embrace it!

[cx500d]

Doubt that....At best, maybe North Texas, UTSA or UTEP.


So who will Liberty get home and home with? Well App State. ASU sees them as a win and they want to recruit the VA area more. They might get one with one of the less prestigious religious schools in Texas like TCU or SMU (prestigious compared to BYU or ND).

They have the old Baylor AD so he has a few personal ties to that area and conference. So maybe like Kansas for a 3/1 or something.

They'll try to recruit kids who cant make the cut at Va Tech/UVA and other regional FBS. But so will App State and WKU. Marshall. Their big beautiful stadium is now subpar so I dont know what the draw will be.

[kdinva]

What happened to the Savannah St. thread?

[Bucs2016]

Which begs the question what was their "draw" as a member of the Big South? No offense, but the Big South was and is a mediocre FCS conference at best, and I don't recall Liberty dominating Big South football. Liberty's move is purely ego-driven. They intimidated the NCAA into whatever waiver the NCAA wisely granted them. They are moving to FBS because that's where they want to be. Their only realistic need for the Big South is as a home for their other sports. That's reality. Embrace it!

They were an original member so they didnt get invited to Big South, they helped found it along with former CSU AD Howard Bagwell. They were always one of the top 2 or 3 programs. Liberty, Coastal and Stoney Brook dominated this conference for the past 15 years.

Their "draw" for recruits has been the chance to play in that stadium, which by FCS standards is very big and nice. And the chance to win a Big South ring. Which they've done.

But again they were recruiting against CSU, PC, Gardner Webb, VMI, etc. So they could win those battles with their facilities.

- - - Updated - - -


What happened to the Savannah St. thread?

It dropped to Division 2

[Laker]

What happened to the Savannah St. thread?

http://tse2.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.gUatFqLq3q_6CFVHnAOdtgGQD2&pid=15.1

[uni88]

What happened to the Savannah St. thread?
It flamed out. :)

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

[Go...gate]

You fellows from the Big South have been taking lessons from the Patriot League in hijacking threads. :D

[MontanaVandal]

It is hard for any independent besides Notre Dame to fill a schedule where you can still get enough home games. Liberty won't have a lot of those against top opponents.


You've got a point, look at what happened to New Mexico State and Idaho when the WAC went under and that was only one year. It woln't be easy for Liberty without a conference actively looking to add them.

[Laker]

I haven't heard anything new on Savannah State for a long time. Any official timetable? Will they join the CIAA? Are there any other schools dropping a division or dropping the sport? Rumors are that football is in trouble at D2 Humboldt State in California.

[Pinnum]

You've got a point, look at what happened to New Mexico State and Idaho when the WAC went under and that was only one year. It woln't be easy for Liberty without a conference actively looking to add them.

Liberty and New Mexico State are playing twice every year--once at each team's home--for the next few years to fill the scheduling issues.

Liberty isn't having any trouble filling their schedule. They are paying ODU $1.4MM so their opening game as an FBS team is a home game against an FBS team.

Liberty
2018 - http://www.fbschedules.com/ncaa-18/2018-liberty-flames-football-schedule.php
2019 - http://www.fbschedules.com/ncaa-19/2019-liberty-flames-football-schedule.php

New Mexico State:
2018 - http://www.fbschedules.com/ncaa-18/2018-new-mexico-state-aggies-football-schedule.php
2019 - http://www.fbschedules.com/ncaa-19/2019-new-mexico-state-aggies-football-schedule.php

[Pinnum]

I'm in the minority who believes going FBS is going to pay off for Liberty. I think they'll be able to play lower level P5 teams in Lynchburg while also finding a way to schedule Home/Home with the service academies and probably 3/1 deals with BYU & ND. They'll also be in play for Home and Home with G5 members in the Sun Belt, MAC, AAC and CUSA.

Liberty's scheduling has gone well since getting approved to move to FBS.

These are their HOME games that are already under contract:

P5ish (by Big Ten scheduling requirements)
- Army (2021, 2026)
- BYU (2022)
- Duke (2026)
- Syracuse (2019)
- Virginia (2027, 2029)
- Virginia Tech (2022, 2030)
- Wake Forest (2025)

G5
- Bowling Green (2023)
- Buffalo (2019)
- Marshall (2024)
- New Mexico (2019)
- New Mexico State (2018, 2019)
- North Texas (2018)
- Old Dominion (2018, 2021)
- Southern Miss (2020)
- Troy (2018)
- UAB (2022)
- UMass (2020, 2021)

[tigonian02]

Liberty's scheduling has gone well since getting approved to move to FBS.

These are their HOME games that are already under contract:

P5ish (by Big Ten scheduling requirements)
- Army (2021, 2026)
- BYU (2022)
- Duke (2026)
- Syracuse (2019)
- Virginia (2027, 2029)
- Virginia Tech (2022, 2030)
- Wake Forest (2025)

G5
- Bowling Green (2023)
- Buffalo (2019)
- Marshall (2024)
- New Mexico (2019)
- New Mexico State (2018, 2019)
- North Texas (2018)
- Old Dominion (2018, 2021)
- Southern Miss (2020)
- Troy (2018)
- UAB (2022)
- UMass (2020, 2021)
Yeah, they have the money and resources to pay most people what they want to come to their stadium. As far as Liberty is concerned, they'll be fine as an independent. There aren't many schools that I'd say that about.