The annual "wow, 1st round attendance really sucks" thread

[chattanoogamocs]

Youngstown State 5,322 (14,353 regular season average)
Chattanooga 5,238 (9,494)
Richmond 3,281 (8,700)
Central Arkansas 3,165 (8,767)
Wofford 2,605 (7,625)
New Hampshire 2,240 (11,108)
Villanova 2,059 (6,153)


Cal Poly and San Diego are still playing and it looks like a monsoon blew through there...I a can't imagine they more than a few thousand.

[JSUSoutherner]

Youngstown State 5,322 (14,353 regular season average)
Chattanooga 5,238 (9,494)
Richmond 3,281 (8,700)
Central Arkansas 3,165 (8,767)
Wofford 2,605 (7,625)
New Hampshire 2,240 (11,108)
Villanova 2,059 (6,153)


Cal Poly and San Diego are still playing and it looks like a monsoon blew through there...I a can't imagine they more than a few thousand.
No way there were 5000 in the stands in Youngstown.

[mmiller_34]

That is thanksgiving weekend for ya.

[chattanoogamocs]

As I pointed out to a disappointed Moc fan today...

"don't lose to Wofford at home and you don't have to play on Thanksgiving weekend."

[WrenFGun]

2000 seems a tad conservative to me for the UNH game, but why do I know. It was a decent crowd all around. Thought it was better than the Albany game.

[Schism55]

No way there were 5000 in the stands in Youngstown.
There absolutely was. Camera was facing home side....those stands are ginormous!

[JSUSoutherner]

There absolutely was. Camera was facing home side....those stands are ginormous!
Just googled the stadium capacity. Didn't realize the stands were that large. They don't look it on TV.

[BigHouseClosedEnd]

Thanks for this thread. Made me feel a bit better.

[Schism55]

Just googled the stadium capacity. Didn't realize the stands were that large. They don't look it on TV.
When they had little to no away side seating it was hilarious, sooo ridiculously unbalanced haha

[kdinva]

That is thanksgiving weekend for ya.

true, yet I predicted 5500 at UR, 6500 at Wofford, 9000 at UTC.....others here sort of predicted Villanova would be < 3K

[Drblankstare]

Every year we do this. Thanksgiving weekend. Relax

[chattanoogamocs]

Every year we do this. Thanksgiving weekend. Relax

Of course, my title thread was tongue in cheek. :)

[BigHouseClosedEnd]

true, yet I predicted 5500 at UR, 6500 at Wofford, 9000 at UTC.....others here sort of predicted Villanova would be < 3K

If you predicted 5500 at UR, you haven't paid attention to our announced attendance on Saturday after Turkey Day historically.

I do enjoy the playoff crowds. Despite being small, very engaged.

[PantherRob82]

Every year we do this. Thanksgiving weekend. Relax

Thus why he said annual. ;)

[Skycop27]

2000 seems a tad conservative to me for the UNH game, but why do I know. It was a decent crowd all around. Thought it was better than the Albany game.

Being at the game, it was a small crowd but I estimate it at 4,000+.
Having no students sucks though.

[Cocky]

No one would announce more than was there because the NCAA will send a bill

[HailSzczur]

There's no way there was less than 4000 at Villanova today. SFU brought a few hundred themselves.
I mean I don't mind not sharing $$$ with the NCAA, but there is no way that number is correct.

[Bisonwinagn]

Ohio State had around 120K and set an attendance record. Don't come with this Thanksgiving weekend ****. Attendance is an embarrassment for these games.

[UNHWildcat18]

Ohio State had around 120K and set an attendance record. Don't come with this Thanksgiving weekend ****. Attendance is an embarrassment for these games.

Really? That's your reasoning because FBS OHIO state Michigan had 120k? This if FCS football, trying to get people to make it a priority on thanksgiving weekend is a tough case.

[ngineer]

Being at the game, it was a small crowd but I estimate it at 4,000+.
Having no students sucks though.

Lehigh radio guys said the Brown & White had a good contingent make the trip. Hopefully they all made it home safely without driving off any bridges. Most probably drank it off and spent the night.

[taper]

Minimum bid for 1st round is $30k. Doubt very many covered that today.

[MTfan4life]

D2 vs. FCS Attendance (FCS in bold)

Samford @ Youngstown State - 5322
Weber State @ Chattanooga - 5238
Emporia State @ NW Missouri State - 5119
UNC Pembroke @ North Alabama - 4258
Shepherd @ LIU Post - 3684
San Diego @ Cal Poly - 3356
North Carolina A&T @ Richmond - 3281
Illinois State @ Central Arkansas - 3165
TX A&M Commerce @ Grand Valley State - 3081
Tuskegee @ North Greenville - 2645
Charleston Southern @ Wofford - 2605
Lehigh @ New Hampshire - 2240
St. Francis @ Villanova - 2059
Colorado Mines @ Ferris State - 1445
Harding @ Sioux Falls - 1384
Indiana (PA) @ California (PA) - 1126

[Thumper 76]

Ohio State had around 120K and set an attendance record. Don't come with this Thanksgiving weekend ****. Attendance is an embarrassment for these games.

Jesus you're a retard


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[RootinFerDukes]

No one would announce more than was there because the NCAA will send a bill

This. These are the real attendance numbers of actual tickets coming through the turnstiles.
During the regular season, we include tickets sold and/or comped as attendance. They include teams and staff. This is just fans in the stand in order to minimize the bill they owe the NCAA for gate revenue.

[RootinFerDukes]

Really? That's your reasoning because FBS OHIO state Michigan had 120k? This if FCS football, trying to get people to make it a priority on thanksgiving weekend is a tough case.

Yep. Comparing to osu/um is just dumb.
Hey guys you went up against the super bowl. What did you expect?!

[dgtw]

Next week we have to compete with Bama-Florida. That won't help our attendance.


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[TheRevSFA]

Ohio State had around 120K and set an attendance record. Don't come with this Thanksgiving weekend ****. Attendance is an embarrassment for these games.

Comparing apples to oranges.

[Mocs123]

I don't disagree that attendance sucks or that we should have had more at the Chattanooga-Weber State game but in people going to Ohio state - Michigan or the iron bowl have months to prepare. Inthe playoffs people don't know if, when, or where they are playing until six days before.

[kdinva]

I don't disagree that attendance sucks ......but in people going to Ohio state - Michigan or the iron bowl have months to prepare.....

as do Grambling/southern u.

[BgJag]

as do Grambling/southern u.

grambling/alcorn has one week to prepare for the SCG in Houston next week. Alcorn had a little bit move since they sealed the east a week or so ago. Conference leading teams in FCS knew ahead of time they were going to the playoff.

[Cocky]

I prefer a small crowd, I can sit or stand when I want. I enjoy the games if others dont then its fine with me.

[CockyGeek]

I'd much rather sit with fans of the teams than Grandpa Bama Joe who got dragged out to see his pride and joy be the waterboy.

[Panther88]

I prefer a small crowd, I can sit or stand when I want. I enjoy the games if others dont then its fine with me.

Small crowds finance gameday operations how?

Here in tx, fcs schools compete against hs football playoffs for attention.

[Cocky]

Small crowds finance gameday operations how?

Here in tx, fcs schools compete against hs football playoffs for attention.

As Trump would say, Badly.

Over 5,000 at a local high school game here Friday night. The town doesnt have 5000 and it wasnt the only this year. Tickets are $10.

[ASU33]

grambling/alcorn has one week to prepare for the SCG in Houston next week. Alcorn had a little bit move since they sealed the east a week or so ago. Conference leading teams in FCS knew ahead of time they were going to the playoff.

HBCU football is a completely different animal all together though. Our fans and alumni are coming to our games no matter what else is going on. Most of us grew up in homes and families where our HBCU team is where grandma and grandpa attended and its a passed down tradition. Most of could care less about the local FBS team for various reasons. It's not like that at the non-HBCUs. Alcorn/Grambling drew 42,000 to the SWAC title game because for the most part we don't give a damn about the SEC title or other title games. The AAC title game was also happening in Houston that weekend last year and it didn't even draw the numbers that the SWAC title did.

[grizband]

Attendance is always lower in the playoffs, even when Montana hosts Thanksgiving playoff games. However, at 75% capacity it's usually a good crowd, because all the for hard fans show up.

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[caribbeanhen]

Comparing apples to oranges.

No, more like apples to rotten apples... nobody cares about the FCS

[kdinva]

....Conference leading teams in FCS knew ahead of time they were going to the playoff.

True, 2 weeks ago teams like NDSU, JaxSt., JMU, EWU, SHSU knew they would host a 2nd round game, after Thanksgiving, and those fans/alums have an extra week to prepare. The 8 schools who hosted yesterday had to realize the fact attendance would be iffy, and 94% of the students would not attend the game.

[JaxSinfonian]

Ohio State had around 120K and set an attendance record. Don't come with this Thanksgiving weekend ****. Attendance is an embarrassment for these games.

The last (and only?) time the Bison had to play on Thanksgiving weekend (http://stats.gobison.com/fb/2010/ndsufb12.htm) the Fargo Dome had the smallest crowd it's seen in a decade. Fact of life: First-round attendance sucks.

[POD Knows]

Jesus you're a retard


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How many would NDSU have had for a Thanksgiving day play off game, 17,900??

[POD Knows]

The last (and only?) time the Bison had to play on Thanksgiving weekend (http://stats.gobison.com/fb/2010/ndsufb12.htm) the Fargo Dome had the smallest crowd it's seen in a decade. Fact of life: First-round attendance sucks.

We would fill the dome on Thanksgiving or close to it now, that crowd figure you pointed to was probably pretty close to the average attendance for 2010.

[JSUSoutherner]

We would fill the dome on Thanksgiving or close to it now, that crowd figure you pointed to was probably pretty close to the average attendance for 2010.
It wasn't. Average attendance that year was 16,568 (87.2%). Thanksgiving that year only drew 12,202 (64.2%).

No doubt you guys would fill it now. Not many places have a fan base as rabid as the Bison. Not sure we could break 14,000 on Thanksgiving weekend. Not with the Iron Bowl on. Would depend on the opponent.

[POD Knows]

It wasn't. Average attendance that year was 16,568 (87.2%). Thanksgiving that year only drew 12,202 (64.2%).

No doubt you guys would fill it now. Not many places have a fan base as rabid as the Bison. Not sure we could break 14,000 on Thanksgiving weekend. Not with the Iron Bowl on. Would depend on the opponent.

I don't think we would fill the dome, we would lose a ton of students but we could still probably pull 17,000. I should have checked the attendance figures for 2010, we were coming off a pretty bad year in 2009, I am surprised that the average attendance was that high in 2010. I have been a season ticket holder since 2007 and there were a fair number of empty seats prior to the recent run.

[Thumper 76]

How many would NDSU have had for a Thanksgiving day play off game, 17,900??

Not worried about what NDSU would have drawn. That wasn't the point. To use the game between Ohio State and Michigan, when both teams were ranked in the top 4 and everything on the line that came with it, and say well their crowd was bigger than normal as a measuring stick, is an asinine case of arrogance and stupidity.

Edit: Also to compare a team like NDSU who has won five championships in a row for attendance to most other schools is a prime example of Bison fans being out of touch with the realities of what most schools fan cultures are like. Easy to look down on other schools when you've been on top of the mountain as long as you have been.


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[JaxSinfonian]

We would fill the dome on Thanksgiving or close to it now, that crowd figure you pointed to was probably pretty close to the average attendance for 2010.

You really think so? After five consecutive national championships at one of the state's flagship schools, in its largest metro area? That's a bold hypothetical there, POD. </sarcasm>

My point wasn't to shame NDSU for low attendance at some random playoff game once upon a time. It was to show that there is a legitimate Thanksgiving-weekend effect for just about everyone who makes the playoffs and has to play in the first round. A Bison fan calling BS on that phenomenon (as with the poster I was replying to) is like expressing disbelief at the small number of national championships won by other FCS teams over the last five years.

[knucklehead]

I can confirm that there were other humans at the UR vs NCAT game. just not many. Those that were there did make decent noise.

[NDSUtk]

Not worried about what NDSU would have drawn. That wasn't the point. To use the game between Ohio State and Michigan, when both teams were ranked in the top 4 and everything on the line that came with it, and say well their crowd was bigger than normal as a measuring stick, is an asinine case of arrogance and stupidity.

Edit: Also to compare a team like NDSU who has won five championships in a row for attendance to most other schools is a prime example of Bison fans being out of touch with the realities of what most schools fan cultures are like. Easy to look down on other schools when you've been on top of the mountain as long as you have been.


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Your edit is spot on. I have been saying let's see the attendance after a 500 season. If it is still nearly impossible to get tickets, I'll be pleasantly surprised. I have a feeling though that if we have a season or two that are less dominant, we will have many fairweather fans disappear. And that's fine, then the people that really care will be the ones with the tickets!

[BisonFan02]

Your edit is spot on. I have been saying let's see the attendance after a 500 season. If it is still nearly impossible to get tickets, I'll be pleasantly surprised. I have a feeling though that if we have a season or two that are less dominant, we will have many fairweather fans disappear. And that's fine, then the people that really care will be the ones with the tickets!

Your last sentence is key.....you would have some turnover, but the tickets would still sell.....student section may thin though.

As far as attendance #s, the playoffs are paid attendance and the NCAA gets a cut. Automatically knock off about 500 capacity seats/space for NDSU's band next Saturday....also look at the 2011 playoffs for non 5 peat attendance. xthumbsupx

[Thumper 76]

Your last sentence is key.....you would have some turnover, but the tickets would still sell.....student section may thin though.

As far as attendance #s, the playoffs are paid attendance and the NCAA gets a cut. Automatically knock off about 500 capacity seats/space for NDSU's band next Saturday....also look at the 2011 playoffs for non 5 peat attendance. xthumbsupx

2011 was the first year in the playoffs, so the excitement of that was added in. And the fanbase is already there for NDSU. Most teams are constantly trying to build their fanbase to the point of filling their stadium.


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[BisonFan02]

2011 was the first year in the playoffs, so the excitement of that was added in. And the fanbase is already there for NDSU. Most teams are constantly trying to build their fanbase to the point of filling their stadium.


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2010 was the first year in the playoffs. But yeah.....usually you have to have a fan base to draw from for attendance. Thanks Madden. :D

[Thumper 76]

2010 was the first year in the playoffs. But yeah.....usually you have to have a fan base to draw from for attendance. Thanks Madden. :D

Since I'm dropping knowledge http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161127/43670f1fb30ace24a1da3b875ee304e8.jpg


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[BEAR]

Minimum bid for 1st round is $30k. Doubt very many covered that today.

Not sure what we bid but 600 reserve tickets went for $30 each= $18k and 2500 went for $20 each =50k totaling $68k maybe?

[POD Knows]

You really think so? After five consecutive national championships at one of the state's flagship schools, in its largest metro area? That's a bold hypothetical there, POD. </sarcasm>

My point wasn't to shame NDSU for low attendance at some random playoff game once upon a time. It was to show that there is a legitimate Thanksgiving-weekend effect for just about everyone who makes the playoffs and has to play in the first round. A Bison fan calling BS on that phenomenon (as with the poster I was replying to) is like expressing disbelief at the small number of national championships won by other FCS teams over the last five years.

I get the point you were trying to make and our Thanksgiving attendance would probably be less than the rest of the tournament but these attendance numbers posted here, from some pretty good FCS schools, are off the charts bad. What do you think JSU's would have been, as a % of average attendance, if you had a turkey weekend game?

Hell, we lose some fans when deer hunting opens up.

[Cocky]

JSU would have had 6-8000.

[SeattleGriz]

I get the point you were trying to make and our Thanksgiving attendance would probably be less than the rest of the tournament but these attendance numbers posted here, from some pretty good FCS schools, are off the charts bad. What do you think JSU's would have been, as a % of average attendance, if you had a turkey weekend game?

Hell, we lose some fans when deer hunting opens up.
That and it is really hard for long distance travelling fans to make plans on short notice.

[JaxSinfonian]

I get the point you were trying to make and our Thanksgiving attendance would probably be less than the rest of the tournament but these attendance numbers posted here, from some pretty good FCS schools, are off the charts bad. What do you think JSU's would have been, as a % of average attendance, if you had a turkey weekend game?

Well, each of the last two (and only) times that's happened, interestingly, we've drawn 64.1 percent of our regular-season average. Given this year's average, that'd be about 12,000 -- in the neighborhood of NDSU's last first-round crowd in raw numbers, though for the Bison that was 73.6 percent of their regular-season average.

You're right that this year's first-rounders compare poorly to that standard, but I wonder if their experience is closer to the norm than is JSU's and NDSU's. Anyone who needs less sleep than I do care to dig up the numbers and do the math?

[clenz]

Really? That's your reasoning because FBS OHIO state Michigan had 120k? This if FCS football, trying to get people to make it a priority on thanksgiving weekend is a tough case.

He's also pretty greatly overstating the attendance

[JSUSoutherner]

He's also pretty greatly overstating the attendance
Yeah he is. Unfortunately only 110k people saw Michigan lose AGAIN. :D

[dgtw]

Yeah he is. Unfortunately only 110k people saw Michigan lose AGAIN. :D

Make that 109,999. Harbaugh thinks they won.


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[ST_Lawson]

JSU would have had 6-8000.

WIU would have had 6-8.

[Mocs123]

How is second round attendance compared to the regular season?

We only hosted one second round game (2014) and we had 8419. We averaged 10,492 in the regular season that year, so that is ~80%.

[JaxSinfonian]

How is second round attendance compared to the regular season?

We only hosted one second round game (2014) and we had 8419. We averaged 10,492 in the regular season that year, so that is ~80%.

I only know our experience, which is two years, and there's a wide variance from one to the next. In 2014 we had 10,832 for the second-round game as the No. 3 seed against Sam Houston State, about 65 percent of the regular-season average, on a rainy day. In 2015, there had been a ton of excitement around the team since the near-miss at Auburn, and we were going into the playoffs as the No. 1 seed with a rematch against the Mocs. That game drew 21,452, 111 percent of a regular-season average that was already much higher than the previous year's.

I'm hoping we'll have about 20,000 on Saturday, but I don't really know what to expect. If we get that it would again be more than our regular-season average. I suppose we won't have anywhere near as many come from Youngstown as came from Chattanooga last year.

[AmsterBison]

How is second round attendance compared to the regular season?

We only hosted one second round game (2014) and we had 8419. We averaged 10,492 in the regular season that year, so that is ~80%.

I'd say that ~80% is about right. I don't think people admitted for free are counted during playoffs (like the band) so the bigger the stadium, the closer to 100% you can get.

The 2010 playoff game was tipping point at NDSU... the crowd was loud and had fun and crowds snowballed from there. Same thing might happen in other places who haven't hosted before (e.g. Grand Forks - even if the crowd is smallish, it might lead to bigger crowds/better atmospheres in the future.)

[Trumpster]

Since I'm dropping knowledge http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161127/43670f1fb30ace24a1da3b875ee304e8.jpg


But not always with MVFC refs amirite?

[ST_Lawson]

How is second round attendance compared to the regular season?

We only hosted one second round game (2014) and we had 8419. We averaged 10,492 in the regular season that year, so that is ~80%.

We have to go back a bit for our comparisons.
In 2002 we averaged 11,801 in the regular season with a low of 8,562. Our first playoff game that year was reported as 2,429 (~20.6% of average).
In 2000 we averaged 8,572 in the regular season with a low of 4,787. Our home playoff game that year was reported as 3,204 (~37.4% of average).

Judging by those percentages and comparing to our regular season attendance this year, if we had made the playoffs and somehow had outbid our first round team and hosted, we might have hit 1k...if the weather was good.

EDIT - Aaaand I just noticed you were asking about second round games.
We hosted a second round game in '02, but for some reason attendance is listed at 0. Considering that was the game against Western Kentucky when there was the huge fight, players were suspended, and I know for a fact there was a pretty decent crowd (one of our fans even caught a WKU helmet that was thrown into the crowd), then I'm pretty sure that 0 isn't quite accurate.

Otherwise, back in '98 we averaged 9,618 through the regular season with a low of 5,634. In our first round home game (win over Montana), we had 3,614 (~37.6% of average), but in our second round game (win over Florida A&M) we had 7,400 (~76.9% of average).

So, it's likely that something around 75%-80% of average is a good guess for second round home playoff games. That obviously changes based on things like weather (if outdoor stadium), if average home attendance is already stadium capacity (I'm looking at you, Bison), other area events going on, and other factors.

[Professor Chaos]

Judging from the stands in the early games 2nd round attendance is also pitiful. Stands at Jacksonville and Brookings look very empty.

[grizband]

I'd have to look it up, but Montana generally sold out, our came close, for second round games.

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[NY Crusader 2010]

Home-site postseason attendance appears to not just be an issue at the FCS level. Anyone watch the Navy-Temple AAC championship game today in Annapolis? Attendance listed at 22K but stands looked emptier than that on TV.

[NY Crusader 2010]

I'd have to look it up, but Montana generally sold out, our came close, for second round games.

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I feel like Montana and NDSU are immune to the playoff attendance issue. I remember watching the 2009 National Semi on TV when you guys hosted and beat App State in the snow -- place was packed.

[dgtw]

Judging from the stands in the early games 2nd round attendance is also pitiful. Stands at Jacksonville and Brookings look very empty.

We barely cracked 10,000.


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[Twentysix]

We barely cracked 10,000.


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You mean 10,000 people bought tickets that the NCAA has contractual rights to the sales.

No way 10,000 people were in that stadium.

I figured Alabama was playing or something for JSU, SDSU has no excuse. Pitiful.

[CockyGeek]

There were 10-12k people there. The home side was almost full and there was a pretty good student showing.

[dgtw]

You mean 10,000 people bought tickets that the NCAA has contractual rights to the sales.

No way 10,000 people were in that stadium.

I figured Alabama was playing or something for JSU, SDSU has no excuse. Pitiful.

We started at 1:00 and Bama at 3:00. A number of people started leaving around then though it was pretty clear we weren't going to win.

It was cold but not unbearablely cold. Rain was predicted but it held off the whole game for the most part.

YSU came to play and it showed. They deserved to win.


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[ASU33]

SWAC Championship attendance was down today also for several reasons. Most Grambling fans were on the road last weekend to New Orleans and they'll be in Atlanta 2 weeks from today. Second reason is everyone expected Grambling to curb stomp Alcorn State. 24,826 is a far cry from the 41,000+ in Houston last year.

[dudeitsaid]

I feel like Montana and NDSU are immune to the playoff attendance issue. I remember watching the 2009 National Semi on TV when you guys hosted and beat App State in the snow -- place was packed.

FCS football is the biggest game in town for both of those states, and those are the big teams, not saying MSU and UND don't also draw decently. I know for EWU, which we had just over 6000 today, about 4000 less than our regular season average, we've got the Seahawks, and FBS UW and WSU (both having good years), and to this date, the vast majority of people still view us as "minor league" so to speak. Don't know how many other teams are dealing with similar factors. But I do think that's why you see those two team in particular with some of the best fan support of any FCS team.

[Panther88]

SWAC Championship attendance was down today also for several reasons. Most Grambling fans were on the road last weekend to New Orleans and they'll be in Atlanta 2 weeks from today. Second reason is everyone expected Grambling to curb stomp Alcorn State. 24,826 is a far cry from the 41,000+ in Houston last year.

Up the road apiece in huntsville, SHSU vs Chatt garnered 4897 people at Bowers stadium.

[jackfan75]

I havent seen our attendance number yet but it was pathetic. Our student section was good. I was easily able to get club seats for the game. I guess the club seat season ticket holders didnt want to spend another $175 a ticket to watch a playoff game. It was worth it to me so my wife could go inside and watch on TV when she got cold. And it really wasnt cold as long as you put enough layers on and bought some body,hand, and foot warmers. The snow was even nice. There was a mens basketball game at 11, football game at 2 and womens basketball at 6. A full day of sports. Where was everyone?

[TheEagleSHSU]

Up the road apiece in huntsville, SHSU vs Chatt garnered 4897 people at Bowers stadium.

I'll take that. Weather has been **** last few days. Alumni side was 85% full, my guess. Student/visitor maybe 10%. (Each side with a max 100% possible of course)


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[CHIP72]

Home-site postseason attendance appears to not just be an issue at the FCS level. Anyone watch the Navy-Temple AAC championship game today in Annapolis? Attendance listed at 22K but stands looked emptier than that on TV.

I was at that game, and knew from checking the Navy website a few times during the week after I bought my tickets immediately after they went on sale late last Saturday night (11/26) that they wouldn't come close to a sellout, which was a real surprise to me. From what I've read, Navy's enrollment is fairly small (about 4,500) and during the regular season they rely heavily on group sales and alumni returning for games (presumably different games for different graduating classes) to boost attendance. Though Annapolis is close to both DC and Baltimore (about 30 miles from each), the local/regional population focuses a lot more on the NFL and if they follow college football, they usually root for Maryland (located fairly close by in suburban DC in College Park, MD) or their home state/alma mater schools. (The DC area has a high percentage of people who aren't originally from the area who live in the region.) On top of those factors, the Army/Navy game is next week, and will be played in Baltimore this year, so many of the Navy alumni who may be have been willing to bite the bullet financially to attend the AAC Championship Game had likely already committed to attending the Army/Navy game a week later.

Navy's attendance would have likely been even lower on Saturday, but Temple (located roughly 2 1/2 hours away in Philadelphia) had a fairly large percentage of fans there, probably at least 20-25% of the crowd and possibly slightly higher (i.e. approximately 5000 fans), likely boosting the attendance by at least 3-4K more than it would have been had Navy played any other team except maybe East Carolina.

Incidentally, as a frame of reference, Navy-Marine Corps Memorial Stadium seats about 34,000 people, so the announced crowd would indicate about 2/3 capacity. Parts of the stadium (like much of the home/west side of the stadium where the TV cameras were located) had a lower percentage than that, but other parts of the stadium were filled to a high percentage than that.

[NY Crusader 2010]

I was went to the College Hockey Showdown yesterday at Madison Square Garden. There were as many North Dakota fans in NYC (at least 8,000) as there were attending the Richmond game back at home.

CHIP 72 - thanks for the local analysis on Navy. Attendance was also down at the CUSA Championship where WKU hosted Louisiana Tech in front of 13K. That compares to 18K they got in the regular season for ODU and 23K for Vanderbilt.

[Gil Dobie]

FCS football is the biggest game in town for both of those states, and those are the big teams, not saying MSU and UND don't also draw decently. I know for EWU, which we had just over 6000 today, about 4000 less than our regular season average, we've got the Seahawks, and FBS UW and WSU (both having good years), and to this date, the vast majority of people still view us as "minor league" so to speak. Don't know how many other teams are dealing with similar factors. But I do think that's why you see those two team in particular with some of the best fan support of any FCS team.

Then why doesn't UND sellout a playoff game, because there was a defending champion playing hockey? Fargo is roughly the same distance from the Minnesota Vikings stadium as Cheney is from Seattle Seahawks stadium. A lot of diehard Vikings fans in North Dakota. Neither NFL team played on Saturday, nor did WSU or UW. I drove 3.5 hours to the game and 4.5 hours back (snow), yesterday. The climate the school builds for their football fans and program has a lot to do with attendance. Scheduling games at 2:30 does help a lot with attendance. Going to a Bison football game is like going to a smaller version of a Green Bay Packers game. Same people sitting next to you every week, tailgating, it's like a reunion every game.

[F'N Hawks]

I was went to the College Hockey Showdown yesterday at Madison Square Garden. There were as many North Dakota fans in NYC (at least 8,000) as there were attending the Richmond game back at home.

CHIP 72 - thanks for the local analysis on Navy. Attendance was also down at the CUSA Championship where WKU hosted Louisiana Tech in front of 13K. That compares to 18K they got in the regular season for ODU and 23K for Vanderbilt.

UND reported 9,837 at the football game but there was more than that. Going by eyeball test it was same as vs USD and that was over 11,000. Think they skimmed the till a bit.

[SeattleGriz]

FCS football is the biggest game in town for both of those states, and those are the big teams, not saying MSU and UND don't also draw decently. I know for EWU, which we had just over 6000 today, about 4000 less than our regular season average, we've got the Seahawks, and FBS UW and WSU (both having good years), and to this date, the vast majority of people still view us as "minor league" so to speak. Don't know how many other teams are dealing with similar factors. But I do think that's why you see those two team in particular with some of the best fan support of any FCS team.
A lot of guessing they will be playing goes for those games. Takes work to schedule time off and line up lodging to drive 500 miles for a game.

The biggest factor in my opinion is that you don't know from week to week if you will be playing. Not everyone lives in town or has prescheduled the time off.

[NY Crusader 2010]

UND reported 9,837 at the football game but there was more than that. Going by eyeball test it was same as vs USD and that was over 11,000. Think they skimmed the till a bit.

Aah yes, the classic under-report that is often rumored. Your fans were great by the way - twice as loud as the BC fans and you guys traveled amazingly. Almost everyone was wearing than authentic green SIOUX jersey. Probably at least 60-40 Sioux fans in relation to BC.

May I add it was the best college hockey atmosphere I've ever been to and the second most exciting college sports environment that I've witnessed at The Garden after the OLD Big East Tournament - and I've been to the NIT four times.

[ASU33]

Up the road apiece in huntsville, SHSU vs Chatt garnered 4897 people at Bowers stadium.

Ouch!

[kalm]

Then why doesn't UND sellout a playoff game, because there was a defending champion playing hockey? Fargo is roughly the same distance from the Minnesota Vikings stadium as Cheney is from Seattle Seahawks stadium. A lot of diehard Vikings fans in North Dakota. Neither NFL team played on Saturday, nor did WSU or UW. I drove 3.5 hours to the game and 4.5 hours back (snow), yesterday. The climate the school builds for their football fans and program has a lot to do with attendance. Scheduling games at 2:30 does help a lot with attendance. Going to a Bison football game is like going to a smaller version of a Green Bay Packers game. Same people sitting next to you every week, tailgating, it's like a reunion every game.

Gonzaga played Zona yesterday at 2:30. The season's cross over a little but it still makes a difference. People are limited to how many teams they are truly fans of...buying apparel, season tickets, committed to seeing every game etc. vs casual fans. UW, WSU, Seahawks, GU hoops, Spokane Chiefs (WHL), Spokane Empire (Arena Football) are all popular and well attended and limit our fan base.

But we at least continue to get a little better each year.

[Gil Dobie]

Gonzaga played Zona yesterday at 2:30. The season's cross over a little but it still makes a difference. People are limited to how many teams they are truly fans of...buying apparel, season tickets, committed to seeing every game etc. vs casual fans. UW, WSU, Seahawks, GU hoops, Spokane Chiefs (WHL), Spokane Empire (Arena Football) are all popular and well attended and limit our fan base.

But we at least continue to get a little better each year.

In the same distance or less from Fargo, as Cheney to Seattle, there are at least 5 DI hockey programs, 2 NHL teams, an NBA team, NFL Team and 1 Major College team and a CFL team and a pipeline protest, so there. ;)

[kalm]

In the same distance or less from Fargo, as Cheney to Seattle, there are at least 5 DI hockey programs, 2 NHL teams, an NBA team, NFL Team and 1 Major College team and a CFL team and a pipeline protest, so there. ;)

True, but most of the people at your protest are probably from Washington State!

The Chiefs, Empire, and Zags are in the same metro are and WSU (you could even throw Montana in there) are way closer than Seattle.

I also forgot to mention Idaho which is 90 miles away had 12k at their last game yesterday.

[Thumper 76]

Not defending any of the attendance numbers, but I've always wondered why a lot of these stadiums have the cameras set up facing the "visitors" side of the stadium. If you are going to have a poor attendance day, its going to show there first. Plus that side of most stadiums, even #notastadiums, just doesn't look as impressive in the first place. Would think you would want to show off your best side of the place if you're going to be on TV.

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[BisonFan02]

Not defending any of the attendance numbers, but I've always wondered why a lot of these stadiums have the cameras set up facing the "visitors" side of the stadium. If you are going to have a poor attendance day, its going to show there first. Plus that side of most stadiums, even #notastadiums, just doesn't look as impressive in the first place. Would think you would want to show off your best side of the place if you're going to be on TV.

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What's a visitors section?

(They probably set up cameras on the home side due to amenities and camera sight lines)

[kalm]

What's a visitors section?

(They probably set up cameras on the home side due to amenities and camera sight lines)

Yes. Home sides are typically taller outside of monster truck venues....hence...the press box with the best sight lines, broadcast booths, power, etc...

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Home-site postseason attendance appears to not just be an issue at the FCS level. Anyone watch the Navy-Temple AAC championship game today in Annapolis? Attendance listed at 22K but stands looked emptier than that on TV.

Not sure how much this game really meant to the Navy faithful with Army next week. It certainly wasn't the environment I expected. At least 6-7k Temple fans showed up! I considered going but a noon start in Annapolis is a pain in the butt when you live 4+ hours away.

If they game was in Philly I think we could have gotten 30k. Students are on campus this weekend and Navy draws in Philly.....

[Mocs123]

Not defending any of the attendance numbers, but I've always wondered why a lot of these stadiums have the cameras set up facing the "visitors" side of the stadium. If you are going to have a poor attendance day, its going to show there first. Plus that side of most stadiums, even #notastadiums, just doesn't look as impressive in the first place. Would think you would want to show off your best side of the place if you're going to be on TV.

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Agree 100%. I think JSU has the camera pointing toward the home side which I always thought was smart.

[Cocky]

Agree 100%. I think JSU has the camera pointing toward the home side which I always thought was smart.
WE do and the logo is what I would call backwards. You can read it from the camera but not while sitting on the "home" side.

[BucBisonAtLarge]

Not defending any of the attendance numbers, but I've always wondered why a lot of these stadiums have the cameras set up facing the "visitors" side of the stadium. If you are going to have a poor attendance day, its going to show there first. Plus that side of most stadiums, even #notastadiums, just doesn't look as impressive in the first place. Would think you would want to show off your best side of the place if you're going to be on TV.

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Bucknell did flip the home and away sides, to provide the appearance of better attendance this year on TV. I wish I could say that it mattered...

[Schism55]

Yes. Home sides are typically taller outside of monster truck venues....hence...the press box with the best sight lines, broadcast booths, power, etc...
lol

[NDSUtk]

Bucknell did flip the home and away sides, to provide the appearance of better attendance this year on TV. I wish I could say that it mattered...
Wish NDSU would flip sides. ..be a much shorter walk (stumble) from the tailgate lots for me :)

[CHIP72]

FCS football is the biggest game in town for both of those states, and those are the big teams, not saying MSU and UND don't also draw decently. I know for EWU, which we had just over 6000 today, about 4000 less than our regular season average, we've got the Seahawks, and FBS UW and WSU (both having good years), and to this date, the vast majority of people still view us as "minor league" so to speak. Don't know how many other teams are dealing with similar factors. But I do think that's why you see those two team in particular with some of the best fan support of any FCS team.


Then why doesn't UND sellout a playoff game, because there was a defending champion playing hockey? Fargo is roughly the same distance from the Minnesota Vikings stadium as Cheney is from Seattle Seahawks stadium. A lot of diehard Vikings fans in North Dakota. Neither NFL team played on Saturday, nor did WSU or UW. I drove 3.5 hours to the game and 4.5 hours back (snow), yesterday. The climate the school builds for their football fans and program has a lot to do with attendance. Scheduling games at 2:30 does help a lot with attendance. Going to a Bison football game is like going to a smaller version of a Green Bay Packers game. Same people sitting next to you every week, tailgating, it's like a reunion every game.

I gotta say, it's kind of amusing to me and probably other people from the Northeast Megalopolis to see people from rural eastern Washington State and North Dakota talk/argue about how many pro and college teams are located within 4 hours of their FCS/DI-AA teams and compete with those teams for the sporting dollar. xlolx

[Panther88]

I'll take that. Weather has been **** last few days. Alumni side was 85% full, my guess. Student/visitor maybe 10%. (Each side with a max 100% possible of course)
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This weather tends to segregate those of us who are decently serious from others who are pretenders (fans/supporters). The weather was decently bad here but not unbearable (50s? lol isn't cold), imho. I did my first Ohio St/Michigan game in Columbus my 1st sem sr yr undergrad during an upcoming grad school visit and there were ~ 92,000+ of us standing, in the snowy/sleetish 37 degree weather for the night game. I felt right @ home w/ the other 92K+ folks - @ capacity SRO. :D

[TheRevSFA]

Not defending any of the attendance numbers, but I've always wondered why a lot of these stadiums have the cameras set up facing the "visitors" side of the stadium. If you are going to have a poor attendance day, its going to show there first. Plus that side of most stadiums, even #notastadiums, just doesn't look as impressive in the first place. Would think you would want to show off your best side of the place if you're going to be on TV.

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most stadiums run north/south so I imagine it's to avoid shooting into the late afternoon sun.

Can't answer for domed stadia though

[dudeitsaid]

Then why doesn't UND sellout a playoff game, because there was a defending champion playing hockey? Fargo is roughly the same distance from the Minnesota Vikings stadium as Cheney is from Seattle Seahawks stadium. A lot of diehard Vikings fans in North Dakota. Neither NFL team played on Saturday, nor did WSU or UW. I drove 3.5 hours to the game and 4.5 hours back (snow), yesterday. The climate the school builds for their football fans and program has a lot to do with attendance. Scheduling games at 2:30 does help a lot with attendance. Going to a Bison football game is like going to a smaller version of a Green Bay Packers game. Same people sitting next to you every week, tailgating, it's like a reunion every game.

I hear you. I don't know as much about NDSU. But I would say winning helps. If UND had the run you've had for the past six years, I think they would draw well.

I think the lack of an FBS competitor is a bigger boost for you guys, and Montana. It doesn't matter that WSU wasn't playing this Saturday. It has to do with the way football is viewed in the area. The fact is, they are the big boys. They significantly outdraw us...as well as you and Montana. FBS just gets more credit. Most of the fans of EWU are current students or alumni. WSU is the eastern side of the states college team playing at the "highest level." You guys are playing at the highest level in your state, and have a tremendous tradition. Montana is playing at the highest level and have a tremendous tradition (though with their on the field struggles, attendance has declined somewhat).

Honestly, it's incredibly frustrating. I think EWU is putting a heck of a product on the field, and beat a good WSU team this year. And even in years where WSU struggled immensely, the Spokane population would drive an hour to that podunk town of Pullman (just a little less podunk as Cheney) to go watch the Cougs get dismantled.

Trust me, I'm not knocking the Bison or the Griz, just explaining a theory behind the difference in attendance. I know there are other factors, but even many of those other factors (such as facilities, media presence, boosters and donors, etc) are related to the fact you are the big dogs in your state.

Honestly, I would love to be in a similar situation as the Bison, the premier game in town, the five FCS national championships, the fan support, and the ESPN love. You can just keep that ugly green field. It's like watching football on bread mold, a toe nail infection, or meconium. I will keep our beautiful red Inferno. :D

[dudeitsaid]

Gonzaga played Zona yesterday at 2:30. The season's cross over a little but it still makes a difference. People are limited to how many teams they are truly fans of...buying apparel, season tickets, committed to seeing every game etc. vs casual fans. UW, WSU, Seahawks, GU hoops, Spokane Chiefs (WHL), Spokane Empire (Arena Football) are all popular and well attended and limit our fan base.

But we at least continue to get a little better each year.

Good point on Gonzaga. That may be Spokane's biggest sports draw, especially because they are playing really well this year so far.

But seeing such a small turnout for a playoff game makes me wonder if a stadium expansion is tempered by some of the lackluster attendance for what should be our biggest games. You are right, it's grown steadily since 2010, but I'm disappointed to see us break our streak of sellouts.

[tomq04]

Good point on Gonzaga. That may be Spokane's biggest sports draw, especially because they are playing really well this year so far.

But seeing such a small turnout for a playoff game makes me wonder if a stadium expansion is tempered by some of the lackluster attendance for what should be our biggest games. You are right, it's grown steadily since 2010, but I'm disappointed to see us break our streak of sellouts.


The streak of sellouts is always mentioned as 20 "regular" season sellouts in a row. I doubt we've ever sold out a playoff game. Attendance has been 5k as I recall, so yesterdays 6k is still an improvement. The weather this coming week isn't going to help much either. I would really hope a semi final game should draw some folks out as there has been tons of coverage in the paper and the local news.

[kalm]

The streak of sellouts is always mentioned as 20 "regular" season sellouts in a row. I doubt we've ever sold out a playoff game. Attendance has been 5k as I recall, so yesterdays 6k is still an improvement. The weather this coming week isn't going to help much either. I would really hope a semi final game should draw some folks out as there has been tons of coverage in the paper and the local news.

Loads of good points by both you and the Dude here.

If you wander the tailgates in September, the atmosphere is similar to Gonzaga games in that it's as much about a Spokane area social place to be seen as it is about true FCS fandom. That's much easier to do in the mid-70's to mid-80's. When it's a high of 40 with a windchill below freezing like last Saturday...not so much. And yes, other northern schools face the same thing. But there is at least relief for those with domes. By this time very few of the fairer sex want to go into the game and tend to stay in the RV's or around the fire pits in the enclosed canopies. Or they just stay home leaving the men folk to brave the elements on their own (while I'd like to see sellouts, there's also something at least a little endearing about that last part when it's just you and the boys braving the ruthless elements, left to your own devices...Our hunter-gatherer ancestors probably hated the early season mammoth hunts where the women and kids wanted to tag along and couldn't wait until the snows when the killing was easier and there was less nagging and cryingxnodx)

Anyhoo...the other part is if you're fortunate enough to get seeded. IIRC we had a couple of regular season November home games in 2010 leading up to the run. So it was something like 5 out of 6 weekends we were loading up the gear, setting up camp, breaking down, and recovering from it every Sunday. And the wives saying...another game? When will it ever stop? When are you going to hang the Christmas lights? This was much easier when we finished 8-3 and lost in the first round!

That level of fandom requires serious commitment and is not for the casual supporter who can sit at home, stay warm, and watch it on ESPN3.