Could TWO 6-5 teams make the field?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

If UNI wins, I need to at least look at the possibility, which is amazing

[PantherRob82]

Yes, they technically could. /end thread xlolx

[MR. CHICKEN]

....ALREADY UH THREAD ON DAT....CURRENTLAH....7 PAGES LONG......xrolleyesx.....AWK!

[ST_Lawson]

Yes, they technically could. /end thread xlolx

I'd call it a definite maybe.

[MTfan4life]

If UNI wins, I need to at least look at the possibility, which is amazing

If we get some sort of true any given saturday style last weekend, there might be the necessity of putting several 6 d1 win teams into the field. If you leave out Duquesne and North Carolina Central, there are only 7 teams in the at-large picture that have 7 d1 wins, as it stands right now. Wofford, Samford, Western Illinois, Maine, Cal Poly, New Hampshire, Albany, Montana, Liberty, Weber State, Fordham, SELA, and Tennessee State all need to win this weekend to get to 7 d1 wins. If some upsets happen this weekend and dominoes fall into place, the final 4 to 7 teams selected into the field are going to have pretty rough looking records and resumes. Seasons like this were bound to happen as the field expanded from 16 to 24. This would be a great season to have a 16 team field.

[Lehigh'98]

If we get some sort of true any given saturday style last weekend, there might be the necessity of putting several 6 d1 win teams into the field. If you leave out Duquesne and North Carolina Central, there are only 7 teams in the at-large picture that have 7 d1 wins, as it stands right now. Wofford, Samford, Western Illinois, Maine, Cal Poly, New Hampshire, Albany, Montana, Liberty, Weber State, Fordham, SELA, and Tennessee State all need to win this weekend to get to 7 d1 wins. If some upsets happen this weekend and dominoes fall into place, the final 4 to 7 teams selected into the field are going to have pretty rough looking records and resumes. Seasons like this were bound to happen as the field expanded from 16 to 24. This would be a great season to have a 16 team field.

I think the SoCon and CAA would get shafted the most if we were still at 16 teams and an autobid for the Pioneer.

[grizband]

I think the SoCon and CAA would get shafted the most if we were still at 16 teams and an autobid for the Pioneer.
If we eye still at 16 teams, I don't believe the Pioneer would have an auto bid

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

[MTfan4life]

Here's my 16 team scenario. In this I take out the auto bid for both the NEC and Pioneer. Both champions had shots against playoff level teams and didn't execute so neither make it in this projection:

1. North Dakota State
Cal Poly

8. North Dakota
South Dakota State

4. Sam Houston State
Chattanooga/Samford/Wofford (coin toss between the 3 probably goes to Samford as they have the decent non-conference win)


5. Jacksonville State
Central Arkansas

2. Eastern Washington
Villanova

7. Richmond
Youngstown State

6. The Citadel
Charleston Southern

3. James Madison
Lehigh

Doesn't that field look so much better without all the murky bubble teams arguing about who did better at winning only 50% of their games!
I'd give it to Samford and Cal Poly being the last two in ahead of the rest of the bubble because of road wins over playoff teams.

[citdog]

Here's my 16 team scenario. In this I take out the auto bid for both the NEC and Pioneer. Both champions had shots against playoff level teams and didn't execute so neither make it in this projection:

1. North Dakota State
Cal Poly

8. North Dakota
South Dakota State

4. Sam Houston State
Chattanooga/Samford/Wofford (coin toss between the 3 probably goes to Samford as they have the decent non-conference win)


5. Jacksonville State
Central Arkansas

2. Eastern Washington
Villanova

7. Richmond
Youngstown State

6. The Citadel
Charleston Southern

3. James Madison
Lehigh

Doesn't that field look so much better without all the murky bubble teams arguing about who did better at winning only 50% of their games!

The Citadel is still to low.

[ST_Lawson]

Despite the fact that my own team wouldn't be included in a 16 but might be in a 24-team field...yes, that does look better.

[citdog]

If an undefeated in FCS SoCon Champ was named appy or pigs ass, ga they would be seeded WAY higher than 6th....

[PantherRob82]

What is it with people wanting less football? 24 is fine. :D

[leatherneck177]

Kidding aside, 24 is better. Give me those non conference matchups, also makes final week of regular season more interesting. Saturday is going to be fun, ESPN3 makes it even better.

[UNHWildcat18]

Here's a question after the 7-4 teams does a NC Central or an NC A&T get in at what 10-2 or 9-3, over a 6-5 valley team? I know the obvious is NO to ags posters but they are kids who went out and got the job done to get to 9+ wins regardless of SOS. UNI is a very very good team but failed to get it done on the field in terms of reaching the standard 7 wins for playoffs from a "power" FCS conference. What do you think the Committee will do?

[Redbird007]

Kidding aside, 24 is better. Give me those non conference matchups, also makes final week of regular season more interesting. Saturday is going to be fun, ESPN3 makes it even better.

YES, look how much more interesting this regular season weekend is with 24 potential playoff teams then it would be with 16 playoff teams. It has been said many times but I will say it again...FBS is really missing out not having a 24 team playoff format. The debate at the level would be off the charts.

[Schism55]

Here's a question after the 7-4 teams does a NC Central or an NC A&T get in at what 10-2 or 9-3, over a 6-5 valley team? I know the obvious is NO to ags posters but they are kids who went out and got the job done to get to 9+ wins regardless of SOS. UNI is a very very good team but failed to get it done on the field in terms of reaching the standard 7 wins for playoffs from a "power" FCS conference. What do you think the Committee will do?
Have you seen NC A&T schedule? Burn it all ****ing down if they get in.

[UNHWildcat18]

Have you seen NC A&T schedule? Burn it all ****ing down if they get in.

They have an FBS win over Kent state. They will most likely go to their bowl game though.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

After NCAT disembowels NCC this weekend, people will look over NCC's schedule and realize there's no way they get in.

If NCC upsets NCAT... wait, this will not happen

[MTfan4life]

If an undefeated in FCS SoCon Champ was named appy or pigs ass, ga they would be seeded WAY higher than 6th....

That's mainly because said team would have a win over either App. St. or GaSouthern and also likely a strong win over Wofford. These days with those two teams gone and Wofford not at the same level it used to be, going undefeated in the SoCon is just not the same achievement. When App St. and GaSouthern get replaced by Mercer, VMI, and ETSU, the Southern Conference simply isn't the same one that consistently produced at least two national title contenders year after year for 20 some seasons.

[citdog]

That's mainly because said team would have a win over either App. St. or GaSouthern and also likely a strong win over Wofford. These days with those two teams gone and Wofford not at the same level it used to be, going undefeated in the SoCon is just not the same achievement. When App St. and GaSouthern get replaced by Mercer, VMI, and ETSU, the Southern Conference simply isn't the same one that consistently produced at least two national title contenders year after year for 20 some seasons.

REALLY??? Why don't you research the last time the SoCon had 4 Playoff teams...

[walliver]

That's mainly because said team would have a win over either App. St. or GaSouthern and also likely a strong win over Wofford. These days with those two teams gone and Wofford not at the same level it used to be, going undefeated in the SoCon is just not the same achievement. When App St. and GaSouthern get replaced by Mercer, VMI, and ETSU, the Southern Conference simply isn't the same one that consistently produced at least two national title contenders year after year for 20 some seasons.

The main problem for the SoCon when GSU and ASU left was that Wofford unexpectedly went into a three year slump, and FU has been in an outright funk. If those two had stepped up as many thought they would, the conferences reputation would have been preserved. Chatty's performance should have helped, but the Mocs have had a lot of bad history to overcome. Bringing back ETSU and VMI hasn't done much to help SOS, but the SoCon has always had cellar-dwellers, and for the early 21st Century, those teams were Chattanooga, Western, and VMI.

[Schism55]

REALLY??? Why don't you research the last time the SoCon had 4 Playoff teams...
So then The Citadel, Chattanooga, Samford and Wofford all have multiple deep playoff runs right? Oh, between them all they have zero? Well then....

[citdog]

So then The Citadel, Chattanooga, Samford and Wofford all have multiple deep playoff runs right? Oh, between them all they have zero? Well then....

I guess your FCS knowledge is only up to when NDSU came into the fold. Woffy has done quite well. The Citadel has gone past the first round 3 times. You really should at least have some idea about what it is you are speaking about...

[Schism55]

I guess your FCS knowledge is only up to when NDSU came into the fold. Woffy has done quite well. The Citadel has gone past the first round 3 times. You really should at least have some idea about what it is you are speaking about...
I've been attending and following small college (FCS, D2, D3) football games since 1985.
I said deep playoff runs, ie a threat to win the 'chip. Those 4 schools have zero semifinal appearances combined.
Care to try again?

[walliver]

I've been attending and following small college (FCS, D2, D3) football games since 1985.
I said deep playoff runs, ie a threat to win the 'chip. Those 4 schools have zero semifinal appearances combined.
Care to try again?

Did you just make up that "fact"?
Wofford went to the semifinals in 2003, and by many accounts had the second best team that year. (Colgate made the finals but lost to Delaware 40-0).

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I've been attending and following small college (FCS, D2, D3) football games since 1985.
I said deep playoff runs, ie a threat to win the 'chip. Those 4 schools have zero semifinal appearances combined.
Care to try again?

Then you must remember Wofford's six FCS playoff appearances, and their semifinal appearance in 2003. Care to try again?

[Schism55]

My bad, remembered Woffords '03 run ending in the quarters.
I'll amend my statement, those 4 teams have been zero threat to win the title in the last 12 years.

[WeAreThePride]

So then The Citadel, Chattanooga, Samford and Wofford all have multiple deep playoff runs right? Oh, between them all they have zero? Well then....

Bahaha! I LOLed.

[Bisonator]

I say we disallow more then 3 MVFC teams and add 2 more from another conference. Any conference!xnodx

[mvemjsunpx]

I suppose three 6-5 teams could make the field, since Liberty still has a chance at the Big South auto. xsmiley_wix

[caribbeanhen]

Did you just make up that "fact"?
Wofford went to the semifinals in 2003, and by many accounts had the second best team that year. (Colgate made the finals but lost to Delaware 40-0).

agree on this, Colgate was a cupcake compared with Wofford that year... Wofford would of embarrassed Colgate

[SUPharmacist]

So....as someone who admits they don't have a lot of past knowledge about Socon/FCS history, what do I need to know about playoff history from current Socon members? Sounds like the '03 Wofford team was great and I know the team that NDSU met in Fargo in the playoffs was solid as well. The Socon is solid, but losing teams like ASU and GSU has to impact how schedule strength is perceived for a decent amount of time. Heck, a lot of people talk about how the current NDSU run would not have happened if the FCS wasn't watered down by the exit of previous top programs (including said Socon teams). For those who believe either statement it seems like sound logic, just root for your teams to go prove it in the playoffs and the perception will shift back and higher seeding will follow.

[Redbird 4th & short]

Yes, TWO 6-5 teams could make the field .. ISU and UNI (if they win today) could and should make the field. Not Liberty .. they lost easily to the top 5 teams they've played and their best Win is against Massey #166. Compare UNI's 5 losses to Liberty's below .. UNI's are by an average of 4 pts per game against some very good teams. LIberty's 5 losses were by average margin of 25. MVFC typically played 3 to 5 tougher teams than many of the other bubble teams who might finish 7-4.

Point being, if those potential 7-4 teams had all played 3 to 5 tougher games like the 6-5 MVFC teams, would they still be 7-4 .. highly doubtful, considering they already lost 4 games to weaker schedule. Compare SOS and results for the top half of schedules for teams like Maine, Weber St, UNH, Albany to UNI, ISU, and WIU .. would they still be 7-4 against our schedules ?

Evidence below is per Massey with each bubble teams game results sorted by Massey Opponent-Rank and then shows Margins. I know some dispute Massey's credibility, but it is at least completely objective. It is color coded, so if you see a lot of red in the rank column, it is a weaker schedule per Massey.
https://i.imgur.com/BhyWXlY.png

[Herder]

So....as someone who admits they don't have a lot of past knowledge about Socon/FCS history, what do I need to know about playoff history from current Socon members? Sounds like the '03 Wofford team was great and I know the team that NDSU met in Fargo in the playoffs was solid as well. The Socon is solid, but losing teams like ASU and GSU has to impact how schedule strength is perceived for a decent amount of time. Heck, a lot of people talk about how the current NDSU run would not have happened if the FCS wasn't watered down by the exit of previous top programs (including said Socon teams). For those who believe either statement it seems like sound logic, just root for your teams to go prove it in the playoffs and the perception will shift back and higher seeding will follow.

Fact Check:

App State - 3 in a row when NDSU was not eligible
NDSU - 3 in a row when App St and GA Southern were eligible

[Schism55]

Fact Check:

App State - 3 in a row when NDSU was not eligible
NDSU - 3 in a row when App St and GA Southern were eligible
Very well said sir xthumbsupx

[POD Knows]

Fact Check:

App State - 3 in a row when NDSU was not eligible
NDSU - 3 in a row when App St and GA Southern were eligible

Boom, Herder has left the building xthumbsupx

[CSU18]

Fact Check:

App State - 3 in a row when NDSU was not eligible
NDSU - 3 in a row when App St and GA Southern were eligible

I could be wrong, but I think it was NDSU - 2 in a row when App/GA Southern were eligible.

2013 was the 1st year they were not eligible.

[SUPharmacist]

Fact Check:

App State - 3 in a row when NDSU was not eligible
NDSU - 3 in a row when App St and GA Southern were eligible

They have indeed won while those teams were eligible, and while I do not fully agree with the watered down argument I can see the logic in it. A lot of teams left the FCS before NDSU joined and since, I focused on GSU and ASU because they were recent Socon departures (context was Socon playoff history and seeding of current teams). I don't know the old conference affiliations of many teams that left, and I don't know that what are mostly SunBelt teams would have stopped NDSU, but there would have been more competitive teams to face.

[kdinva]

a bit off track: will the committee take both Albany and U N H? both are 7-4..

[WestCoastAggie]

Sigh...