What would you rather have???

[Cap'n Cat]

Interesting last week was a poll posted here asking the question:

"What would you prefer???
Win back to back NCAA Division I Championships like App State
or
Win the Fiesta Bowl in dramatic Boise State style"

While AGS is definitely the premier national FCS messageboard community there are a lot of members who also follow the FBS. Indeed there are a lot of members who wish their team was in the FBS and make no bones about denigrating the FCS no matter what.

Well the results of the poll which only members could vote on and only once finished like this:

56.90% Win back to back NCAA Division I Championships like App State
43.10% Win the Fiesta Bowl in dramatic Boise State style

The FCS enthusiasts beat down the FBS wannabes again.

This despite what many said were twisted poll selections pitting "the greatest game of all time" in Boise State's bowl game victory over Oklahoma (featuring a plethora of trick plays to spur Boise) against back-to-back title runs by Appalachian State.

The FBS lovers took their shots at the FCS, the level of play, the amount of money being made, the amount of publicity gained and the size of the crowds but the AGS community came right back and answered the smack with solid reasoning and an overwhelming victory.

Typically, the FBS wannabes cried foul (the FBS is used to foul play, after all) but the bottom line was they lost fair and square even with a twisted poll sporting their "greatest game of all time". I'd take one 2005-UNI-over-Texas State over 100 Boise State/Oklahoma finishes.

A word of advice to the FBS loving trolls at AGS, the FCS fans are laughing at you not with you. Believe it or not, there is a whole legion of fans who appreciate an NCAA championship over the fictitious BCS and a meaningless bowl game win.


The Cap'n hath spoken.

Long live Cap'n Cat

:bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow:

[lizrdgizrd]

Interesting last week was a poll posted here asking the question:

"What would you prefer???
Win back to back NCAA Division I Championships like App State
or
Win the Fiesta Bowl in dramatic Boise State style"

While AGS is definitely the premier national FCS messageboard community there are a lot of members who also follow the FBS. Indeed there are a lot of members who wish their team was in the FBS and make no bones about denigrating the FCS no matter what.

Well the results of the poll which only members could vote on and only once finished like this:

56.90% Win back to back NCAA Division I Championships like App State
43.10% Win the Fiesta Bowl in dramatic Boise State style

The FCS enthusiasts beat down the FBS wannabes again.

This despite what many said were twisted poll selections pitting "the greatest game of all time" in Boise State's bowl game victory over Oklahoma (featuring a plethora of trick plays to spur Boise) against back-to-back title runs by Appalachian State.

The FBS lovers took their shots at the FCS, the level of play, the amount of money being made, the amount of publicity gained and the size of the crowds but the AGS community came right back and answered the smack with solid reasoning and an overwhelming victory.

Typically, the FBS wannabes cried foul (the FBS is used to foul play, after all) but the bottom line was they lost fair and square even with a twisted poll sporting their "greatest game of all time". I'd take one 2005-UNI-over-Texas State over 100 Boise State/Oklahoma finishes.

A word of advice to the FBS loving trolls at AGS, the FCS fans are laughing at you not with you. Believe it or not, there is a whole legion of fans who appreciate an NCAA championship over the fictitious BCS and a meaningless bowl game win.


The Cap'n hath spoken.

Long live Cap'n Cat

:bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow:
:hurray: :hurray: :hurray: :hurray: :hurray: :hurray: :hurray: :hurray: :hurray: :hurray: :hurray: :hurray: :hurray:

[BigApp]

if you'll read back Capn, you'll see some question the legitimacy of the votes. Literally within a few hours it skewed greatly from one side to the other

[lizrdgizrd]

if you'll read back Capn, you'll see some question the legitimacy of the votes. Literally within a few hours it skewed greatly from one side to the other
Of course it went one way and back again.

[Cap'n Cat]

if you'll read back Capn, you'll see some question the legitimacy of the votes. Literally within a few hours it skewed greatly from one side to the other


They all found their "happy place", Susie.

**********************

So, this is a purportion that someone is manipulating the votes behind the scenes???


Shame.

[Cap'n Cat]

Stunningly, legitimacy is questioned by FBS lovers. There was no great skew, just you FBS wannabes not believing that the FBS could not win over the FCS.

If you think that polls are fixed at AGS then you can inspect Appy's win over UNI in the 2005 title game for conspiracies as well.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[Blue]

I'd rather have a Nat'l Championship.

[Cap'n Cat]

I'd rather have a foot massage from a 12 year-old Asian wrestler in a really loose singlet.

[BigApp]

not a 'purportion', just an observation. However, I can say that evidently others are receiving PM's from my ID that I didn't send.

[FlyYtown]

Boise Win..
I'd take a BCS Fiesta Bowl win over a FCS Title any day of the week.

[JDC325]

I guess if you need the recognition to enjoy your championship. That's a shame. : smh :

You cant put a price tag on the national RECOGNITION and exposure Boise State got playing that meaningless bowl game. Winning that bowl game has benifits off the field that a FCS championship does not provide. George Mason I heard got a huge spike in apps after just making to the NCAA final game. Imagine if they would have one it. There are HUGE benifits to the ENTIRE university for having a nationally recognized athletics program especially in football.

[dungeonjoe]

not a 'purportion', just an observation. However, I can say that evidently others are receiving PM's from my ID that I didn't send.

Please report this kind of activity to the AGS administrator or a moderator; they can at least give your purportions or observations merit and solve the issue or dismiss them if there is another issue at play. Either way, if AGS has these problems they need to be dealt with. This sounds like a serious charge you are making here. I wish you had reported it sooner using the proper channels.

[89Hen]

not a 'purportion', just an observation. However, I can say that evidently others are receiving PM's from my ID that I didn't send.
Go into your PM's and use the drop down box to 'Sent Items' and see if there are any there.

[89Hen]

You cant put a price tag on the national RECOGNITION and exposure Boise State got playing that meaningless bowl game. Winning that bowl game has benifits off the field that a FCS championship does not provide. George Mason I heard got a huge spike in apps after just making to the NCAA final game. Imagine if they would have one it. There are HUGE benifits to the ENTIRE university for having a nationally recognized athletics program especially in football.
We've already had this discussion and nobody has shown ANY benefit to having more applications due to an athletic event. Come back with some figures and I'll listen to that arguement.

[JDC325]

We've already had this discussion and nobody has shown ANY benefit to having more applications due to an athletic event. Come back with some figures and I'll listen to that arguement.

That is just being stubborn for being stubborn. The athletics program is the front door to most major universities and is the FIRST thing most kids know about a school. You can tell me that GSU would be where it is today without a football program or that a sucessful athletics program is not a major factor when kids are selecting a university. The thousands and thousands of highschool kids in GA dont have UGA stickers on their cars because of UGA's excellent pharmacy college. Cmon do you really need see it on paper to know that Boise just buried the University of Idaho in the minds of 90% highschool kids in Idaho?

Here is what happened to George Mason for just making it to the title game of the NCAA tournament.


The George Mason University basketball team excelled into the National College Athletic Association's Final Four basketball tournament last March. The Patriots went from the Sweet Sixteen to the Elite Eight and finally to the Final Four, gaining fans and enthusiasm along the way. The City of Fairfax hung a congratulatory banner across Chain Bridge Road and Fairfax Boulevard, and held a "Mason Madness" parade Friday, April 7. Hundreds of people gathered along the sides of University Drive, in the middle of a rain storm, to congratulate the local athletes on their accomplishment. The team's rise brought a lot of attention to the university, and President Alan Merten said it "put GMU on the map." More than 30,500 students enrolled at GMU the following semester — the highest in the school's 34-year history. The school received more than 11,000 freshman applications for that semester, the fall of 2006, which was an 8 percent increase from the previous year. The number of out-of-state applications were up 15 percent from the previous year. The school attributed most of the newfound popularity to the basketball team's success.

http://www.connectionnewspapers.com/article.asp?article=75497&paper=61&cat=104

Sucessfull and Nationally recognized athletics programs do have huge off the field benifits and is ONE of my main motivations in seeing GSU move to the next level or dont bash anyone school that makes that decision to move to an overall higher level of competition. I think the benifits are easier to see when a smaller, growing or a school that has relatively recently moved up like Boise has sucess. I think it is alot harder to see it at a school like the University of Florida or UGA due to the fact those schools allready have established athletic programs and most of the highschool kids want to go there anyway.

I got to admit debating with you keeps one on their toes and making sure you can back up what you say. I will try to be less combative and defensive in the future in our next battle!!

[lizrdgizrd]

That is just being stubborn for being stubborn. The athletics program is the front door to most major universities and is the FIRST thing most kids know about a school. You can tell me that GSU would be where it is today without a football program or that a sucessful athletics program is not a major factor when kids are selecting a university. The thousands and thousands of highschool kids in GA dont have UGA stickers on their cars because of UGA's excellent pharmacy college. Cmon do you really need see it on paper to know that Boise just buried the University of Idaho in the minds of 90% highschool kids in Idaho?

Here is what happened to George Mason for just making it to the title game of the NCAA tournament.



http://www.connectionnewspapers.com/article.asp?article=75497&paper=61&cat=104

Sucessfull and Nationally recognized athletics programs do have huge off the field benifits and is ONE of my main motivations in seeing GSU move to the next level or dont bash anyone school that makes that decision to move to an overall higher level of competition.
I find it interesting that they think the basketball showing had anything to do with enrollment since the application deadline for freshmen is in the middle of January. xcoffeex

[JDC325]

I find it interesting that they think the basketball showing had anything to do with enrollment since the application deadline for freshmen is in the middle of January. xcoffeex

Missed this part I guess


More than 30,500 students enrolled at GMU the following semester — the highest in the school's 34-year history.

I increased the font size so you did not miss it this time.xcoffeex

So George Mason only takes applications ONE time a year?

[89Hen]

Here is what happened to George Mason for just making it to the title game of the NCAA tournament....

I got to admit debating with you keeps one on their toes and making sure you can back up what you say. I will try to be less combative and defensive in the future in our next battle!!
:confused: You didn't show a single thing in how a school has benefitted. More applicants? Show me how the average SAT or GPA of incoming freshman has increased or how the school was able to raise tuition because of having a single good showing in football or basketball...

And as Lizrd pointed out, applications for the fall semester at GMU are due in January, so March madness led to increased applications three months prior? :eyebrow: Nice try.

[89Hen]

Missed this part I guess



I increased the font size so you did not miss it this time.xcoffeex

So George Mason only takes applications ONE time a year?
Deadline for the fall semester (which is the next semester after March) is mid-January. Oops.

[bluehenbillk]

:confused: You didn't show a single thing in how a school has benefitted. More applicants? Show me how the average SAT or GPA of incoming freshman has increased or how the school was able to raise tuition because of having a single good showing in football or basketball...

And as Lizrd pointed out, applications for the fall semester at GMU are due in January, so March madness led to increased applications three months prior? :eyebrow: Nice try.

It's all about $$ 89, first applications ain't free, 2nd they admit more kids & we know what that costs. Money, money money.

[89Hen]

It's all about $$ 89, first applications ain't free
That's it, you got me bk. :p

Actually quite funny when you think about it....

11,000 is an 8% increase over 10,200 so
$89 x 800 = $71,200

"It has been a lucrative offseason for Larranaga, who signed a new contract that nearly doubled his base salary to $375,000 and includes many bonus incentives -- including $75,000 simply for coming back each season. He also earns extra money from his basketball camp, which sold out all six weeks."
xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx

Just a gravy train for the Patriots.

[lizrdgizrd]

Missed this part I guess



I increased the font size so you did not miss it this time.xcoffeex

So George Mason only takes applications ONE time a year?
Sorry but the following semester of March is the FALL semester. Deadline for that is in JANUARY.

Maybe now you can read that better. xcoffeex

[JDC325]

:confused: You didn't show a single thing in how a school has benefitted. More applicants? Show me how the average SAT or GPA of incoming freshman has increased or how the school was able to raise tuition because of having a single good showing in football or basketball...

And as Lizrd pointed out, applications for the fall semester at GMU are due in January, so March madness led to increased applications three months prior? :eyebrow: Nice try.

You said applicants so I showed you applicants. Your just cutting off you nose to spite you face at this point the words came out of the school's presidents mouth and now you calling him out too...cmon. I did not say those words they came out of an article so take it up with the author if you dont believe it or the President of GM since he was quoted directly. Anyone that says GSU is where it is today without having a sucessfull football team is nieve at best. It would be the biggest coincidence of all time to think having such early football sucess had nothing to do with GSU going from a college to a university, tripling enrollment, yearly increasing sat and gpa, becoming a Carnegie Research Institution, and the explosing of building on campus in the same 25 years. BTW when did I say off the field benifits meant specifically and ONLY higher GPA and SAT scores? Obviously it would take a years research to show any direct corellation or you could just us common sense to know that George Mason would not have ever crossed a ton of kids minds without that final four appearance, or get boosters and alumni to give more, or get better licensing deals, or getting recruits to the campus. Tell me you would have ever heard of them if they won the Div II tourney? Listen your really just digging your heals in if your continuing to suggest that benifits from a nationally recognized successful athletic program ends at the stadium exits for a university.

[JDC325]

Sorry but the following semester of March is the FALL semester. Deadline for that is in JANUARY.

Maybe now you can read that better. xcoffeex

YOU NEED TO EMAIL THE AUTHOR AND THE SCHOOLS PRESIDENT BECAUSE OBVIOUSLY SOMEONE HAS SOME BAD INFO. THOSE WERE DIRECT QUOTES NOT MY WORDS. READ THE ARTICLE EMAIL THE AUTHOR AND THE SCHOOLS PRESIDENT IF YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH IT.

[89Hen]

You said applicants so I showed you applicants.
Remind me never to yell "DON'T SHOOT" when I'm near you as you seem to have selective hearing.

"We've already had this discussion and nobody has shown ANY benefit to having more applications due to an athletic event. Come back with some figures and I'll listen to that arguement." -89Hen

This means more applications does not equal a benefit.

[89Hen]

YOU NEED TO EMAIL THE AUTHOR AND THE SCHOOLS PRESIDENT BECAUSE OBVIOUSLY SOMEONE HAS SOME BAD INFO. THOSE WERE DIRECT QUOTES NOT MY WORDS. READ THE ARTICLE EMAIL THE AUTHOR AND THE SCHOOLS PRESIDENT IF YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH IT.
Yes, they do. :cool:

[lizrdgizrd]

YOU NEED TO EMAIL THE AUTHOR AND THE SCHOOLS PRESIDENT BECAUSE OBVIOUSLY SOMEONE HAS SOME BAD INFO. THOSE WERE DIRECT QUOTES NOT MY WORDS. READ THE ARTICLE EMAIL THE AUTHOR AND THE SCHOOLS PRESIDENT IF YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH IT.
The point is that applications increase for many reasons. If they claimed application increases for the spring semester or more applications coming in now then I would agree it might be attributed to the prior March. I suppose you assume School Presidents are infallible and strictly logical in their public statements? xidiotx

[lizrdgizrd]

That's it, you got me bk. :p

Actually quite funny when you think about it....

11,000 is an 8% increase over 10,200 so
$89 x 800 = $71,200

"It has been a lucrative offseason for Larranaga, who signed a new contract that nearly doubled his base salary to $375,000 and includes many bonus incentives -- including $75,000 simply for coming back each season. He also earns extra money from his basketball camp, which sold out all six weeks."
xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx

Just a gravy train for the Patriots.
89, don't forget that that "application fee" is simply to offset the costs of processing the applications. :rolleyes: xlolx

[JDC325]

Remind me never to yell "DON'T SHOOT" when I'm near you as you seem to have selective hearing.

"We've already had this discussion and nobody has shown ANY benefit to having more applications due to an athletic event. Come back with some figures and I'll listen to that arguement." -89Hen

This means more applications does not equal a benefit.

So if Boise or George Mason goes from having a pool of 8,000 applicants to 12,000 applicants to choose from there are NO benefits in that? Cmon man...a chance to increase diversity, increase the size of the school or choose kids that have more extra curicular activities on their apps NO benefits in those things? Just use some common sense to know that the more people want to get into a school the more selective the school can be and they are going to have to use things like SAT scores, and GPA's to decide who gets in and who does not. Like I said it would be more obvious at a school like GSU than a UGA do to the standards and popularity of UGA allready being the highest in the state. I dont doubt for one minute the GSU has not benefitted academically from the early and great success from our football team. Ask ASU or Boise people in about a year or so if they cant see the benifits of the football teams success off the field.

[89Hen]

if your continuing to suggest that benifits from a nationally recognized successful athletic program ends at the stadium exits for a university.
:confused: Where did I suggest that? GMU now has a successful athletic program because of a Final Four appearance? BSU's athletic program has now changed because they won the Fiesta Bowl?

BTW, Mason is now 1-3 in the CAA and 7-7 overall and played their last home game in front of 4100 fans... they averaged 4500 per game last year... that was before the Final Four appearance.

[89Hen]

So if Boise or George Mason goes from having a pool of 8,000 applicants to 12,000 applicants to choose from there are NO benefits in that? Cmon man...a chance to increase diversity, increase the size of the school or choose kids that have more extra curicular activities on their apps NO benefits in those things? Just use some common sense to know that the more people want to get into a school the more selective the school can be and they are going to have to use things like SAT scores, and GPA's to decide who gets in and who does not.
SO SHOW ME FIGURES. Surely BSU and GMU aren't the first team to experience an uptick in applications because of an athletic event. The truth is, there ARE NO FIGURES.

[JDC325]

The point is that applications increase for many reasons. If they claimed application increases for the spring semester or more applications coming in now then I would agree it might be attributed to the prior March. I suppose you assume School Presidents are infallible and strictly logical in their public statements? xidiotx

No but I would TRUST his judgement about what the basketballs team sucess has done for his school over some random internet message board posters any day of the week. Last time I checked you had to be pretty intelligent to be a president of a university so please excuse me for giving any legitimacy to his assements. :rolleyes:

[JDC325]

SO SHOW ME FIGURES. Surely BSU and GMU aren't the first team to experience an uptick in applications because of an athletic event. The truth is, there ARE NO FIGURES.

.....and obviously no common sense either. I guess GSU would have been just a big as it is now without 6 NC's and people all over america could tell where George Mason is even located without their final four appearance. Boise should just move back to the FCS since winning that meaningless bowl game will absolutely NO impact on the rest of the school. Wow somtimes you just got to know when continuing a debate is worthless. Tapping out since the common sense well has run completely dry in this thread.

[JDC325]

Yes, they do. :cool:

Why dont you email the author or the school president and get clarification then since they obvioulsly dont know what the heck they are talking about.:rolleyes:

[lizrdgizrd]

.....and obviously no common sense either. I guess GSU would have been just a big as it is now without 6 NC's and people all over america could tell where George Mason is even located without their final four appearance. Boise should just move back to the FCS since winning that meaningless bowl game will absolutely NO impact on the rest of the school. Wow somtimes you just got to know when continuing a debate is worthless. Tapping out since the common sense well has run completely dry in this thread.
I think you're missing the point. To say that an admissions uptick in January is due to an event that occurs after it in March is logically incorrect. Perhaps there was no other obvious reason for the increase? Maybe they were taking alot of REALLY late applications?

[youwouldno]

The applications stuff is greatly exaggerated. Of course the President says that athletic success translates into academic benefits... but the fact is, most students do not pick a college for the athletic program. There could be a subliminal aspect and it certainly raises name recognition, but in terms of highly qualified applicants I doubt there is much of an effect.

[JDC325]

I think you're missing the point. To say that an admissions uptick in January is due to an event that occurs after it in March is logically incorrect. Perhaps there was no other obvious reason for the increase? Maybe they were taking alot of REALLY late applications?


They did not give a date or a time it just said the following semester which I assume means after march madness and does NOT mean they were necessarily trying to get in for the FALL semester. It did not say the apps were for the fall semester only. I applied for GSU in the summer of 97to get in the Winter Quarter of 98 but my app still was placed the in the summer of 97. I knew I was did not meet the FALL quater deadline but I still wanted to attend there regardless if I had to wait ONE semester or quarter. Obviously GSU takes apps for any time of the year and you dont have too start your college career begining in the fall I dont know if GM is the same. The article is vague but just because there is a deadline for fall does not mean people do not want to get in a later semester or quarter or even the following year but I sure the President and the Author are dead wrong in believing the final four appearance has anything to do with the increases.

[89Hen]

somtimes you just got to know when continuing a debate is worthless
I know of one circumstance now... Just Darn Confused

[JDC325]

The applications stuff is greatly exaggerated. Of course the President says that athletic success translates into academic benefits... but the fact is, most students do not pick a college for the athletic program. There could be a subliminal aspect and it certainly raises name recognition, but in terms of highly qualified applicants I doubt there is much of an effect.

I just said it was the front door of a University and a contributing factor of why a kid would choose a school. Like I said the vast majority of the thousands and thousands highschool kids in GA dont have UGA stickers on their cars because of the high SAT scores standards, but to say a sucessfull and nationally recognized athletic program especially football has no benefits to the school off the field is just insane IMO NOT limited to GPA or SAT I dont know how 89Hen reduced the debate to that but I originally said that stirred 89Hen up was that Boise's win provides off the field benefits that App state NC will not. Please tell me that is not a insane assumption.

[JDC325]

I know of one circumstance now... Just Darn Confused


Okxidiotx I think you sour grapes mentallity or hyper sensitivity to the BCS/1-A issue makes you cut off you nose to spite your face in these debates. Nice personal attack though, I thought you were just crying about those the other day. Now I can add hypocrite to your resume.:nono:

[youwouldno]

Kids have UGA stickers because they grow up UGA fans. That has NOTHING at all to do with a George Mason or Boise State that gets in the news for a while because of a good season. Confusing the two is highly erroneous, if understandable for people that haven't (or can't) think about the matter seriously.

[lizrdgizrd]

I just said it was the front door of a University and a contributing factor of why a kid would choose a school. Like I said the vast majority of the thousands and thousands highschool kids in GA dont have UGA stickers on their cars because of the high SAT scores standards, but to say a sucessfull and nationally recognized athletic program especially football has no benefits to the school off the field is just insane IMO NOT limited to GPA or SAT I dont know how 89Hen reduced the debate to that but I originally said that stirred 89Hen up was that Boise's win provides off the field benefits that App state NC will not. Please tell me that is not a insane assumption.
I think the big benefit to NCs and big bowl games is to the athletic department as those things make the school more attractive to talented players. It also helps in the ticket sales and alumni donation departments. Quality students aren't going to pick a school because of athletics. Quality athletes will, but most applicants aren't quality athletes.

[89Hen]

You obviously are confused. You've put words in peoples mouths several times, you've gone back on substance of quotes that YOU went and found, you complain about lack of knowledge and then are exposed... by making a comment about GT that was COMPLETELY false. Then you try to somehow drag Elon into it xlolx , then get shot down over George Mason, can't come up with any figures on how any school in history ever had their academic program uplifted by a sporting event.

You keep going back to GSU and how the school has grown. Great! GSU's school and football program have done wonders, but you have nothing to show that it was the football program that did this. Perhaps the school wanted to grow and have a football program and both grew together. There are quite a few schools in the country who have grown without even HAVING a football team.

[JDC325]

You obviously are confused. You've put words in peoples mouths several times, you've gone back on substance of quotes that YOU went and found, you complain about lack of knowledge and then are exposed... by making a comment about GT that was COMPLETELY false. Then you try to somehow drag Elon into it xlolx , then get shot down over George Mason, can't come up with any figures on how any school in history ever had their academic program uplifted by a sporting event.

You keep going back to GSU and how the school has grown. Great! GSU's school and football program have done wonders, but you have nothing to show that it was the football program that did this. Perhaps the school wanted to grow and have a football program and both grew together. There are quite a few schools in the country who have grown without even HAVING a football team.

One thing I have learned about debating you is first with 14K+post you have way to much time on your hands,and two when your proven wrong you just try to take a snippet out of a post or turn the debate in totally different direction. Either way a huge waste of time. It is quite obvious you have some issues with any discussion of FBS and the benefits it provides over FCS and for some reason feel the need to chime with some negativitey every time 1-A/FBS is merely mentioned. Starting to sound like a bad inferiority complex which is typical when someone tries to bash something they are not. I guess I will stay confused and keep on thinking that the explosion of GSU and the growth of Boise and the national exposure the are getting would not have happened inpart to good athletic programs. I am sure you are right and there is absolutely NO correlation between the two and no there are NO benefits off the field for having a sucessfull athletic program. :rotateh:

[JDC325]

I think the big benefit to NCs and big bowl games is to the athletic department as those things make the school more attractive to talented players. It also helps in the ticket sales and alumni donation departments. Quality students aren't going to pick a school because of athletics. Quality athletes will, but most applicants aren't quality athletes.

I guess NO benefit for having millions of people exposed to your school vs. thousands and no benefit what so ever having a spike in apps. I mean having a pool of 15,000 potential students to choose from I guess is no better than having a pool of 10,000. I bet for alot of even quality students the first time they heard of GM was because of the B-Ball game like Paul Johnson eluded to the athletics program specifically football most of the time is the front door to most universities.

[JDC325]

Kids have UGA stickers because they grow up UGA fans. That has NOTHING at all to do with a George Mason or Boise State that gets in the news for a while because of a good season. Confusing the two is highly erroneous, if understandable for people that haven't (or can't) think about the matter seriously.

They grew up UGA football fans not UGA college of pharmacy fans. Trust me I garuntee you if you drive around Idaho you will see the same thing NOW and especially after that win. Which is my point most kids excluding some flagship Universities dont grow up fans of many FCS schools. I lived in GA all my life and until I attended GSU and never even seen a FCS game on TV. After leaving the army and looking at schools I highly doubt I would have even heard of GSU unless it was for the football team.

[lizrdgizrd]

I guess NO benefit for having millions of people exposed to your school vs. thousands and no benefit what so ever having a spike in apps. I mean having a pool of 15,000 potential students to choose from I guess is no better than having a pool of 10,000. I bet for alot of even quality students the first time they heard of GM was because of the B-Ball game like Paul Johnson eluded to the athletics program specifically football most of the time is the front door to most universities.
But a student from Chapel Hill isn't going to go to UNC(CH) if they want an engineering degree just because UNC wins a BB NC. You'll pick up the marginal student, not the top-of-the-class.

[JDC325]

But a student from Chapel Hill isn't going to go to UNC(CH) if they want an engineering degree just because UNC wins a BB NC. You'll pick up the marginal student, not the top-of-the-class.

What about if he had to choose between UNC and a school that did not have an athletics program but had a comprable engineering program or even the same situation but a much smaller lets say Div II basketball team. AH HA!!! I would not pass up the chance to see the TarHeels play given all other things being equal. Also, a quality out of state student may never discover UNC (ch) engineering program or how good it si if they never heard of the school. I am sure there are non athletic schools out there that rival UNC engineering program but never get looked at because alot of quality students have not ever heard of them much less be able to find them on the map.

[89Hen]

NO benefits off the field for having a sucessfull athletic program. :rotateh:
"You've put words in peoples mouths several times" xcoffeex

[89Hen]

What about if he had to choose between UNC and a school that did not have an athletics program but had a comprable engineering program or even the same situation but a much smaller lets say Div II basketball team.
"you just try to take a snippet out of a post or turn the debate in totally different direction" xcoffeex

[lizrdgizrd]

What about if he had to choose between UNC and a school that did not have an athletics program but had a comprable engineering program or even the same situation but a much smaller lets say Div II basketball team. AH HA!!! I would not pass up the chance to see the TarHeels play given all other things being equal. Also, a quality out of state student may never discover UNC (ch) engineering program or how good it si if they never heard of the school. I am sure there are non athletic schools out there that rival UNC engineering program but never get looked at because alot of quality students have not ever heard of them much less be able to find them on the map.
How many high-quality students who know what type of education they want aren't going to do the research to find the best programs? These folks aren't choosing schools based on athletic records.

[JDC325]

How many high-quality students who know what type of education they want aren't going to do the research to find the best programs? These folks aren't choosing schools based on athletic records.

Again if ALL other things being equal you would choose UNC (ch) over a school without an athletic program or one that only has a Div II basketball team. Everyone has a little bit of an ego.

[JDC325]

"you just try to take a snippet out of a post or turn the debate in totally different direction" xcoffeex

With nearly 15k posts it looks like you have drink alot of coffee. Does not leave much time for other things......xlolx BTW HE brought that point up and I responded and it did not involve our discussion nice try and take time to enjoy some finer things in life...like women or beer. Is carpal tunnel as bad as it is cracked up to be?

[JDC325]

"You've put words in peoples mouths several times" xcoffeex

Perfect example thank you for just taking a snippet out of context. Wow that was easy. xlolx

[youwouldno]

Well JDC probably can't identify with good students. I've always been around such people, and the fact is they don't choose schools for athletic reasons. Period. At Furman lots of people are fans of a big school, Tennessee or Florida or Clemson, etc. They could have gone to those places, for 1/4 the price or less. It's the same idea at most FCS schools or, gasp, sub D-I schools. And I'm fairly positive no one in my George Mason law school class picked GMU for basketball reasons.

The only thing athletic success does is raise 'brand' recognition and maybe have a slight subliminal effect. But good students do not make decisions on that basis, end of story.

[JDC325]

Well JDC probably can't identify with good students. I've always been around such people, and the fact is they don't choose schools for athletic reasons. Period. At Furman lots of people are fans of a big school, Tennessee or Florida or Clemson, etc. They could have gone to those places, for 1/4 the price or less. It's the same idea at most FCS schools or, gasp, sub D-I schools. And I'm fairly positive no one in my George Mason law school class picked GMU for basketball reasons.

The only thing athletic success does is raise 'brand' recognition and maybe have a slight subliminal effect. But good students do not make decisions on that basis, end of story.


Never said it was the only reason I said it was A factor and if you dont think it is your crazy. I aslo asked all things being equal you dont think most people would choose the school with a nationally recognized athletic program and yet you and liz keep avoiding the question. No doubt Furman has high academic standard and I am not going to debate you on that or vs GSU but graduating Magna Cum Laude with a 3.89 I did not think was to bad. Especially AFTER serving four years in the Army where blowing up stuff and shooting things reallly did nothing to improve my intellect or prepare me for college courses. I guess all those schools who always mention there athletic accomplishment in their advertisements are just wasting their time since NO quality students really care about that kind of stuff. :nonono2:

[89Hen]

With nearly 15k posts it looks like you have drink alot of coffee. Does not leave much time for other things......xlolx BTW HE brought that point up and I responded and it did not involve our discussion nice try and take time to enjoy some finer things in life...like women or beer. Is carpal tunnel as bad as it is cracked up to be?
: smh : You are a sad creature.