FCS to FBS possibilities?

[Mike296]

So with this talk about the Big 12 looking to expand it got me thinking. If they're going to expand they're obviously going to have to take from the AAC, MWC, CUSA, etc. If they do end up taking from those conferences then that leaves a void in those conferences for a potential conference shakeup. Geographically speaking if the Big 12 wants to expand they're best off looking at the AAC/CUSA. Looking at the MWC those schools would be better off looking at the Pac 12 if they wanted to leave because it makes more sense for those schools travel wise. Now what would the CUSA/AAC do if they wanted to keep their numbers the same member wise? Well MAC schools don't really make sense for the CUSA because those schools wouldn't be able to compete in that conference. The SBC schools are pretty much in the same boat. That leaves them with the possible option of luring an FCS powerhouse to come join. There is a catch though, it would have to make sense for both parties. Let's be real here, who honestly thinks that a school like Chuck South or NDSU would want to go to the CUSA? For NDSU it's basically AAC or bust if they ever consider going FBS. The MWC would make sense travel wise for NDSU but competition wise it doesn't.


Is there a possibility we get another school going up soon like Coastal? Or am I too far off in saying that this even makes sense?

[Twentysix]

Yes there will probably be 2-5 teams that leave the FCS for the FBS in the next 5 years.

None of them will be NDSU.

Charelston Southern is more likely go to DIII than FBS.

NDSU would do well to go to either the MAC or the MWC. No idea where your "AAC or bust" bs comes from.

[RootinFerDukes]

First, ESPN is trying to block any Big 12 expansion, so it's 50/50 if it'll even happen. Then if they take an even number, specifically two, it could die as early as the AAC round. Otherwise cusa must lose as least three or they won't expand further because they receive no financial incentive for doing so. It's highly unlikely to trickle down to the Fcs level and if it did, it's yet another sun belt opening. Oh boy!

Who's most likely to go in this unlikely scenario? JMU. If it's a cusa opening and they'd rather take us then bother with current sun belt members. Our admin will be gone tomorrow for anything higher than the sbc.
If it's only the sbc with a opening for Fcs? I guess eastern Kentucky this time?

Either way, IMO, no one is leaving Fcs unless it's because they are dropping their program. Ccu took the last train out of town to another crappy town further away but not much different from the big south.

[smilo]

You have a super inflated opinion of the FCS. If NDSU ever moves up, they will top out at the MAC. Keep dreaming on MW/AAC. Keep in mind, the Sun Belt is better competition than any FCS league (finally).

I echo the above. Could be EKU either way tbh, so long as Western doesn't try and block it in a revenge move. I like the rivalries that would create with Marshall-WKU-EKU-MTSU.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

CUSA is one round of realignment from oblivion. If the AAC picks the cream of the crop from that group then no SBC school is going to pay a $5 million exit fee for a league that's profiting less per school on the CFP and whose television deal that's going to expire in a couple of years and is only worth a pittance anyways.

JMU might be willing to ride to CUSA's rescue in that case, but if they would really choose CUSA over the Sun Belt in that situation then their administration is dumb.

[SENOREIDA]

So with this talk about the Big 12 looking to expand it got me thinking. If they're going to expand they're obviously going to have to take from the AAC, MWC, CUSA, etc. If they do end up taking from those conferences then that leaves a void in those conferences for a potential conference shakeup. Geographically speaking if the Big 12 wants to expand they're best off looking at the AAC/CUSA. Looking at the MWC those schools would be better off looking at the Pac 12 if they wanted to leave because it makes more sense for those schools travel wise. Now what would the CUSA/AAC do if they wanted to keep their numbers the same member wise? Well MAC schools don't really make sense for the CUSA because those schools wouldn't be able to compete in that conference. The SBC schools are pretty much in the same boat. That leaves them with the possible option of luring an FCS powerhouse to come join. There is a catch though, it would have to make sense for both parties. Let's be real here, who honestly thinks that a school like Chuck South or NDSU would want to go to the CUSA? For NDSU it's basically AAC or bust if they ever consider going FBS. The MWC would make sense travel wise for NDSU but competition wise it doesn't.


Is there a possibility we get another school going up soon like Coastal? Or am I too far off in saying that this even makes sense?
You're on bath salts if you think another FCS conference wants Chuck South, let alone an FBS conference. They would die to move, but they have the worst facilities in D1. No one wants them. Also the CUSA is a shell of itself, and if the AAC poaches Marshall or Souther Miss, I think we could see some jump ship for the Sun Belt.

[Thumper 76]

Yes there will probably be 2-5 teams that leave the FCS for the FBS in the next 5 years.

None of them will be NDSU.

Charelston Southern is more likely go to DIII than FBS.

NDSU would do well to go to either the MAC or the MWC. No idea where your "AAC or bust" bs comes from.

This for everything. Also, with budget cuts coming, how does NDSU come up with the money to go FBS if the opportunity arises? Only way I see any of the Midwest schools like NDSU, SDSU, or UNI going is if the MWC gets pillaged and decides to go east a ways.

[dewey]

Keep in mind, the Sun Belt is better competition than any FCS league (finally).


The Sun Belt is better than the MVFC? I doubt it. I am pretty sure I have seen rankings of conferences and the MVFC is higher than the Sun Belt.

Dewey

[clenz]

This for everything. Also, with budget cuts coming, how does NDSU come up with the money to go FBS if the opportunity arises? Only way I see any of the Midwest schools like NDSU, SDSU, or UNI going is if the MWC gets pillaged and decides to go east a ways.

Yup.

UNI gets a nod in a couple ways due to the basketball program and conferences like the MWC wanting the best programs they can grab.

MAC is the most realistic ceiling, football wise, for UNI should the FBS be the end goal. Though it's easily argued the MVFC is at/above MAC level now.

If conferences were to start all over I think alleged see is leagues forest sport, not all sport conferences, for sports like basketball, football, potentially volleyball, wrestling, women's basketball. Chances are they'd end up about like what we have now but it would allow for greater leverage for some schools to capitalize I certain programs and not be held back by others

[WTFCollegefootballfan]

I was listening to national sports radio, either ESPN or Fox, the other day, and they were talking about the Big 12 expansion. They were saying the P5 wants to become the P4, with 4 sixteen team conferences( Big 10, Big 12, SEC, PAC 10). They were saying 4 conferences lines up better for the playoff system. If this happens ACC will become a G5 conference after the top teams go to other G5 conferences. They talked about this for over a hour. They were saying the Big 12 expansion this year is the start of this move to 4 power conferences.

[No_Skill]

Then the conference championships make a de facto 8 team playoff.

[AshevilleApp2]

Yup.

UNI gets a nod in a couple ways due to the basketball program and conferences like the MWC wanting the best programs they can grab.

MAC is the most realistic ceiling, football wise, for UNI should the FBS be the end goal. Though it's easily argued the MVFC is at/above MAC level now.

If conferences were to start all over I think alleged see is leagues forest sport, not all sport conferences, for sports like basketball, football, potentially volleyball, wrestling, women's basketball. Chances are they'd end up about like what we have now but it would allow for greater leverage for some schools to capitalize I certain programs and not be held back by others

Huh?

[No_Skill]

Makes sense to me.

[smilo]

I was listening to national sports radio, either ESPN or Fox, the other day, and they were talking about the Big 12 expansion. They were saying the P5 wants to become the P4, with 4 sixteen team conferences( Big 10, Big 12, SEC, PAC 10). They were saying 4 conferences lines up better for the playoff system. If this happens ACC will become a G5 conference after the top teams go to other G5 conferences. They talked about this for over a hour. They were saying the Big 12 expansion this year is the start of this move to 4 power conferences.

I think we all suspect this is the long game, but GoR makes this a long way off. The Big 12 (and perhaps Pac-12 though they deny it) getting to 12 and then to 14 using G5 schools are all we can expect in the next 10 years. Beyond that, yes, the non-Pac-12 conferences can potentially poach the non-private ACC schools to get to 18, we are talking decades. We'll see if Pac ever even has viable candidates to get there.

[Catatonic]

I think we all suspect this is the long game, but GoR makes this a long way off. The Big 12 (and perhaps Pac-12 though they deny it) getting to 12 and then to 14 using G5 schools are all we can expect in the next 10 years. Beyond that, yes, the non-Pac-12 conferences can potentially poach the non-private ACC schools to get to 18, we are talking decades. We'll see if Pac ever even has viable candidates to get there.


Someone will eventually challenge the legality of GoR agreements in court.

The simplest way to have 4 power conferences currently is to poach the SEC (yes, it's sarcasm). They have no GoR. (Yes, I am being sarcastic). The SEC has no GoR because no one wants to leave.

[Schism55]

GoR?

[NDSUKurt]

GoR?

Grant of Rights (for television & media money).

Basically, the Big 10, Big 12, ACC, and Pac 12 all have a bylaw that states if any current member leaves the conference, they must pay a hefty exit fee and pay the money the school gets from the new conference to their old conference for XX number of years.

[clenz]

I think the ACC is 15-20 million to leave. I might be a tad high but not much

[Cocky]

No one will be leaving the CUSA for the SBC. The only ones who believe this are fans of SBC members. You just dont take steps backwards on your own.

[walliver]

I was listening to national sports radio, either ESPN or Fox, the other day, and they were talking about the Big 12 expansion. They were saying the P5 wants to become the P4, with 4 sixteen team conferences( Big 10, Big 12, SEC, PAC 10). They were saying 4 conferences lines up better for the playoff system. If this happens ACC will become a G5 conference after the top teams go to other G5 conferences. They talked about this for over a hour. They were saying the Big 12 expansion this year is the start of this move to 4 power conferences.

How does adding 2 or 4 weak teams to the Big 12 make it a stronger conference than the ACC?

The real weak link of the ACC is the Tobacco Road Schools (Duke should be in the AAC, and Wake in the SoCon or CAA). Georgia Tech, Clemson, FSU, Miami, and Pitt have all won National Championships during my lifetime.

[AshevilleApp2]

How does adding 2 or 4 weak teams to the Big 12 make it a stronger conference than the ACC?

The real weak link of the ACC is the Tobacco Road Schools (Duke should be in the AAC, and Wake in the SoCon or CAA). Georgia Tech, Clemson, FSU, Miami, and Pitt have all won National Championships during my lifetime.

The ACC without Duke? Maybe in football, but not overall. What folks here might not realize is that for ACC fans from the core schools (I.E. Tobacco Road), basketball is what matters. Football is a social event to do on Saturday afternoon prior to the real season.

[WTFCollegefootballfan]

How does adding 2 or 4 weak teams to the Big 12 make it a stronger conference than the ACC?

The real weak link of the ACC is the Tobacco Road Schools (Duke should be in the AAC, and Wake in the SoCon or CAA). Georgia Tech, Clemson, FSU, Miami, and Pitt have all won National Championships during my lifetime.

The radio show said the top ACC schools will go to other conferences (SEC, B10, B12).

[smilo]

How does adding 2 or 4 weak teams to the Big 12 make it a stronger conference than the ACC?

The real weak link of the ACC is the Tobacco Road Schools (Duke should be in the AAC, and Wake in the SoCon or CAA). Georgia Tech, Clemson, FSU, Miami, and Pitt have all won National Championships during my lifetime.

4* teams have won an ACC Championship game. Wake Forest is one of them :) [In fact, the only team with an appearance to never lose the ACC Championship.]

But yes, Wake, Syracuse, and BC have no business being in a major football conference imo. Duke will get by thanks to UNC and you know, the gigantic endowment.

Regarding the first question, it's not so much being stronger - it's that the ACC has logical teams that each conference wants. The Big Ten would love the eastern flagship schools (even if it comes with Duke) and Notre Dame. The SEC also wants new states (VA/NC) and the top tier football programs like Clemson/FSU (Big 12 wants them too obviously, but you know, it's the SEC). The Big 12 has long coveted Louisville, and Pitt is a companion for WV.

If the Big 12 breaks up - who wants some of these teams? Kansas and Oklahoma are much weaker academic fits for the Big Ten. Texas without one of those makes little sense. Does the SEC want the other Texas schools? What would they even want to add? Is Oklahoma State (or West Virginia?) a viable add for their brand or just a tiny state? There is value in putting the right pieces together, and that comes much easier from the pieces in the ACC.

[Twentysix]

Ut Austin can join any confrence whenever they want.

[SENOREIDA]

Ut Austin can join any confrence whenever they want.
10 years ago maybe. Not now. A&M are the big dogs in Texas now. Better Football, Basketball, and Baseball. Boy Texas has fallen on bad times.

[Cocky]

10 years ago maybe. Not now. A&M are the big dogs in Texas now. Better Football, Basketball, and Baseball. Boy Texas has fallen on bad times.
Not a single conference would turn Texas-Austin down. The OVC would take them even though they have won in football.

[catamount man]

The radio show said the top ACC schools will go to other conferences (SEC, B10, B12).

Clemson and FSU both were being courted by the Big 12 as recently as 2012. They should've bolted then.

[NDSUKurt]

4* teams have won an ACC Championship game. Wake Forest is one of them :) [In fact, the only team with an appearance to never lose the ACC Championship.]

But yes, Wake, Syracuse, and BC have no business being in a major football conference imo. Duke will get by thanks to UNC and you know, the gigantic endowment.

Regarding the first question, it's not so much being stronger - it's that the ACC has logical teams that each conference wants. The Big Ten would love the eastern flagship schools (even if it comes with Duke) and Notre Dame. The SEC also wants new states (VA/NC) and the top tier football programs like Clemson/FSU (Big 12 wants them too obviously, but you know, it's the SEC). The Big 12 has long coveted Louisville, and Pitt is a companion for WV.

If the Big 12 breaks up - who wants some of these teams? Kansas and Oklahoma are much weaker academic fits for the Big Ten. Texas without one of those makes little sense. Does the SEC want the other Texas schools? What would they even want to add? Is Oklahoma State (or West Virginia?) a viable add for their brand or just a tiny state? There is value in putting the right pieces together, and that comes much easier from the pieces in the ACC.

There is a belief that the current Big Ten Commissioner, Jim Delany, (who is a North Carolina Grad) wants to pull the University of Virginia and the University of North Carolina to the Big Ten Conference before he retires.

Supposedly he would even be willing to have the Big Ten football conference schedule start a week earlier to allow in state rivalry games (Va. Tech for Virginia and Duke/NC State for North Carolina). There has even been speculation that Delany would allow mid season conference games for the basketball season so that North Carolina could play home and home every year with Duke.

[Mr.Loco]

There is a belief that the current Big Ten Commissioner, Jim Delany, (who is a North Carolina Grad) wants to pull the University of Virginia and the University of North Carolina to the Big Ten Conference before he retires.

Supposedly he would even be willing to have the Big Ten football conference schedule start a week earlier to allow in state rivalry games (Va. Tech for Virginia and Duke/NC State for North Carolina). There has even been speculation that Delany would allow mid season conference games for the basketball season so that North Carolina could play home and home every year with Duke.
The only school i could see leaving the ACC for the Big Ten is Miami. Why would the North Carolina schools abandon their rival.

[Laker]

The only school i could see leaving the ACC for the Big Ten is Miami. Why would the North Carolina schools abandon their rival.

The BIG talks about having geographical additions- meaning schools from states already bordering the conference. That would mean Virginia, North Carolina and Georgia Tech would be in the mix. For whatever reason there seems to be a good relationship with Tech and Purdue. I don't know why but they have been mentioned several times. Virginia's name keeps coming up due to academics and bordering Maryland. NC has lost their luster because of their academic cheating scandal. I can't see them taking Miami- too far away.

[Southern Bison]

The ACC is strong enough in football. FSU and Clemson were in the last two title games. They're stronger than the BigXII...period.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

[Sader87]

BC has ovah a 2 billion endowment....the move to the ACC hasn't been too successful for them athletically but they are doing just fine financially.

The ACC needs BC (and the New England mahhket) moreso than vice versa imo.

[NY Crusader 2010]

I think the ACC is in pretty good shape right now -- in a decade they might have Notre Dame as a full-time member for all we know. The assertion that it's weaker or in more trouble than the Big XII is erroneous.

[NDSUKurt]

The only school i could see leaving the ACC for the Big Ten is Miami. Why would the North Carolina schools abandon their rival.

Again, this is just hearsay, but it is something that has been put out there by those that have more knowledge about the alignment topic as opposed to the average fan.

As for "Why would the North Carolina schools abandon their rival?", it is all about the money. The Big Ten with Michigan State, Wisconsin, Indiana, Michigan, Ohio State, Maryland, AND North Carolina & Virginia would be by far the best basketball conference, and that equals more money for all involved. This added with the mentioned before scheduling arrangements would be perfect in Jim Delany's world.

As an fyi, the Big Ten has a bylaw that states any school that is admitted to the conference must border a ​current member of the league. Because of this, many schools that were mentioned as expansion candidates for the first round of expansion (the Nebraska expansion) were not eligible (UConn, Kansas, Kansas State, Oklahoma, Texas, Georgia Tech).

[NDSUKurt]

The BIG talks about having geographical additions- meaning schools from states already bordering the conference. That would mean Virginia, North Carolina and Georgia Tech would be in the mix. For whatever reason there seems to be a good relationship with Tech and Purdue. I don't know why but they have been mentioned several times. Virginia's name keeps coming up due to academics and bordering Maryland. NC has lost their luster because of their academic cheating scandal. I can't see them taking Miami- too far away.

Georgia Tech has a harder time because of the bylaw. Georgia does not border any current state that has a Big Ten member, thus in order for them to join, universities from 2 states would have to join first, which would result in a Big Ten conference larger than 16 teams.

[Laker]

Georgia Tech has a harder time because of the bylaw. Georgia does not border any current state that has a Big Ten member, thus in order for them to join, universities from 2 states would have to join first, which would result in a Big Ten conference larger than 16 teams.

That wouldn't surprise me if they got the right teams.

[Catatonic]

If the ACC is cannabalized at some point look for the SEC to aggressively pursue UNC and one other schools from NC State, Virginia or Duke. The SEC is rumored to have sweetened the deal to attract Chapel Hill by agreeing to take Duke, which UNC values more than NC State.

[Catatonic]

Not a single conference would turn Texas-Austin down. The OVC would take them even though they have won in football.

depends. All things being equal, that's true. But Texas does not cre much for equality. They are used to having their own way.

Texas has allegedly been turned down by at least two other p5 conferences based on the Horns insistence that they be allowed to bring along the Longhorn network. Other conferences aren't as willing to allow the Horns to run roughshod over them as the likes of Kansas and Iowa State.

[smilo]

If the ACC is cannabalized at some point look for the SEC to aggressively pursue UNC and one other schools from NC State, Virginia or Duke. The SEC is rumored to have sweetened the deal to attract Chapel Hill by agreeing to take Duke, which UNC values more than NC State.

Surely the Big Ten would do the same and remains much more sensible option considering UNC's athletic strong points (lacrosse, basketball, not as much football until lately) and elite academics. The SEC simply wants fans from the state.

If there is any state the SEC would take multiple schools from, it would almost certainly be Florida since you have big money to be made there and those have fewer options. Duke is a Yankee basketball/lacrosse school, and UNC is almost that. They can't play SEC ball. State is the only fit for the SEC in that group.

[smilo]

BC has ovah a 2 billion endowment....the move to the ACC hasn't been too successful for them athletically but they are doing just fine financially.

The ACC needs BC (and the New England mahhket) moreso than vice versa imo.

I don't think anyone has recommended kicking them out just yet? Though the New England market in college sports matters very little, even less in football, and even less again when you can't win a game in football or basketball and are consistently out-recruited by mid-majors. The conjecture was that they simply wouldn't be picked up by another conference should the Atlantic Coast Conference cease to exist.

[WileECoyote06]

All of yall and that 'national radio show reporter' are out of your minds. The ACC isn't going anywhere. The four super conferences will never happen. xcoffeex

There would be legislative hearings before UNC is allowed to leave NC State. There would be congressional hearings at the federal level stopping a move to four conferences.

It's much more likely that the playoffs expand to eight teams first.

[Sader87]

I don't think anyone has recommended kicking them out just yet? Though the New England market in college sports matters very little, even less in football, and even less again when you can't win a game in football or basketball and are consistently out-recruited by mid-majors. The conjecture was that they simply wouldn't be picked up by another conference should the Atlantic Coast Conference cease to exist.

Said partially in jest, but the league that probably best fits BC if the ACC implodes is the Patriot League. xdrunkyx

[Schism55]

Said partially in jest, but the league that probably best fits BC if the ACC implodes is the Patriot League. xdrunkyx
Given their continued poor performance on the court and gridiron, you aren't far off ;)

[Catatonic]

Surely the Big Ten would do the same and remains much more sensible option considering UNC's athletic strong points (lacrosse, basketball, not as much football until lately) and elite academics. The SEC simply wants fans from the state.

If there is any state the SEC would take multiple schools from, it would almost certainly be Florida since you have big money to be made there and those have fewer options. Duke is a Yankee basketball/lacrosse school, and UNC is almost that. They can't play SEC ball. State is the only fit for the SEC in that group.

expanding its footprint is an undeniable motivation for coveting UNC. There are other factors as well. The SEC network requires quality programming Year round. Kentucky is really the only bb school in the conference now, although Florida, TAMU, and Mizzou have all made noise at various times in recent history. Adding two schools with excellent basketball programs makes the SEC network more attractive post football. The SEC presidents are also keen to enhance the academic reputation of the conference. It wasn't totally by accident that the last two schools added to the sEC were AAU members.

I have not not heard much about SEC expansion in a couple of years. Things change very quickly, but at that time rumor had it that the Big 10 was keen to add UNC but didn't want Duke or NC State, hence the SEC's offer to allow UNC to bring along an in state rival of their choosing.

[RootinFerDukes]

CUSA is one round of realignment from oblivion. If the AAC picks the cream of the crop from that group then no SBC school is going to pay a $5 million exit fee for a league that's profiting less per school on the CFP and whose television deal that's going to expire in a couple of years and is only worth a pittance anyways.

JMU might be willing to ride to CUSA's rescue in that case, but if they would really choose CUSA over the Sun Belt in that situation then their administration is dumb.

Being in a relatively regional conference (by fbs terms) with odu, Marshall, Charlotte in immediate vicinity with wku and mtsu close-ish is dumb?
What would be even dumber is joining app state and ga southern but then having to go as far as Texas and Louisiana on a regular basis. We had a chance at the sbc already and said no thanks. Don't believe me? Your commissioner publicly said so. Now you add ccu and try to sell that to yourself. At least you all were smart enough to lay off of Liberty.

[Cocky]

depends. All things being equal, that's true. But Texas does not cre much for equality. They are used to having their own way.

Texas has allegedly been turned down by at least two other p5 conferences based on the Horns insistence that they be allowed to bring along the Longhorn network. Other conferences aren't as willing to allow the Horns to run roughshod over them as the likes of Kansas and Iowa State.
I didnt mean conference would change the rules for them. Im sure the B10, SEC and PAC wouldnt give them anything special.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

I'd love to see Marshall join the AAC if Cincinnati is one of the schools bolts! They'd bring in a quality football program with solid name recognition and relatively competitive hoops. Their geography would help bridge the gap between the Northeast, Southeast and South Central based schools. Plus, it would give me another conference foe within driving distance, about a 7-8 hours.

[SUUTbird]

I really don't see any of the current P5 Conferences splitting up, way too many variables such as money and legal action for that to ever happen. Most likely an 8 team playoff format will be announced which will involve the 5 P5 Conference Champions and would leave slots open for the top G5 teams and Independents.

In regards to FCS schools moving up due to the Big 12 expansion it all depends where they expand from. Most reports and theories believe that Cincinnati and BYU will be the two teams they will take first with Houston, Colorado State, Boise State, Memphis and a whole slew of other teams being an option if they expand by 4.

One thing that might happen is if the Big 12 expands by 4 teams it might Inspire the Pac-12 to expand by 2 to match all the other P5 Conferences in terms of membership. If that happens they will most certainly look at BYU and Colorado State (if they are not taken by the Big 12) with San Diego State, Hawaii and Boise State being other options for expansion as well. If that happens it might entice some schools like The Montanas to join the Mountain West Conference.

[Twentysix]

Georgia Tech has a harder time because of the bylaw. Georgia does not border any current state that has a Big Ten member, thus in order for them to join, universities from 2 states would have to join first, which would result in a Big Ten conference larger than 16 teams.

That is a ridiculously impractical rule. Any chance you can quote the byline number? It just sounds like a wivestale.

[Twentysix]

All of yall and that 'national radio show reporter' are out of your minds. The ACC isn't going anywhere. The four super conferences will never happen. xcoffeex

There would be legislative hearings before UNC is allowed to leave NC State. There would be congressional hearings at the federal level stopping a move to four conferences.

It's much more likely that the playoffs expand to eight teams first.


pfffft I just spit whisky all over my screen. I think you think sports are a lot more important than they are.

[Twentysix]

expanding its footprint is an undeniable motivation for coveting UNC. There are other factors as well. The SEC network requires quality programming Year round. Kentucky is really the only bb school in the conference now, although Florida, TAMU, and Mizzou have all made noise at various times in recent history. Adding two schools with excellent basketball programs makes the SEC network more attractive post football. The SEC presidents are also keen to enhance the academic reputation of the conference. It wasn't totally by accident that the last two schools added to the sEC were AAU members.

I have not not heard much about SEC expansion in a couple of years. Things change very quickly, but at that time rumor had it that the Big 10 was keen to add UNC but didn't want Duke or NC State, hence the SEC's offer to allow UNC to bring along an in state rival of their choosing.

Yeah, the SEC is by far the dunce of the P5. Some pretty good schools overall though.

[Twentysix]

I really don't see any of the current P5 Conferences splitting up, way too many variables such as money and legal action for that to ever happen. Most likely an 8 team playoff format will be announced which will involve the 5 P5 Conference Champions and would leave slots open for the top G5 teams and Independents.

In regards to FCS schools moving up due to the Big 12 expansion it all depends where they expand from. Most reports and theories believe that Cincinnati and BYU will be the two teams they will take first with Houston, Colorado State, Boise State, Memphis and a whole slew of other teams being an option if they expand by 4.

One thing that might happen is if the Big 12 expands by 4 teams it might Inspire the Pac-12 to expand by 2 to match all the other P5 Conferences in terms of membership. If that happens they will most certainly look at BYU and Colorado State (if they are not taken by the Big 12) with San Diego State, Hawaii and Boise State being other options for expansion as well. If that happens it might entice some schools like The Montanas to join the Mountain West Conference.

None of those schools have the academic chops for the PAC. I really doubt it. The conference would have to seriously shift priorities for those schools to become options. Or they would all have to more than double their academic output, Boise more like octuple.

Washington State, Oregon, and Oregon State probably wouldn't be admitted today if they weren't already in the league. All previously mentioned PAC members are better schools than San Diego State, who is head and shoulders better than Hawaii, and both of those schools aren't even comparable with Boise. Boise State isn't even considered a national university.

[Catatonic]

Yeah, the SEC is by far the dunce of the P5. Some pretty good schools overall though.

That was no doubt true at one point, but I'd say the current "Dunce" award goes to the B12 after losing Colorado, Mizzou, Nebraska and TAMU. All 4 were at the time (Nebraska has since lost its membership) AAU members and neither TCU nor West Va. hold membership. This isn't the only measure of academic prowess, of course, but AAU membership is certainly a strong indicator of a school that values scholarly activity.

If I were to rank P5 conferences based on overall academics I'd say the B10, PAC, ACC, SEC and B12. Both the ACC and PAC lose points based on the bottom tier of the conference. They are as strong as any conference at the top.

[Twentysix]

That was no doubt true at one point, but I'd say the current "Dunce" award goes to the B12 after losing Colorado, Mizzou, Nebraska and TAMU. All 4 were at the time (Nebraska has since lost its membership) AAU members and neither TCU nor West Va. hold membership. This isn't the only measure of academic prowess, of course, but AAU membership is certainly a strong indicator of a school that values scholarly activity.

If I were to rank P5 conferences based on overall academics I'd say the B10, PAC, ACC, SEC and B12. Both the ACC and PAC lose points based on the bottom tier of the conference. They are as strong as any conference at the top.

Indeed, AAU vs not AAU is a pretty good indicator, but within the AAU all schools are not the same and outside of it they are not the same either.

What you say about the BigXII is certainly true, both conferences haven't been nearly as academically minded as the PAC or B1G, especially not the B1G, and the BigXII lost a lot of academic weight with the last few rounds of conference realignments. I mean they traded a top 100 world university in CU-boulder for WVU which is in a battle with Mississippi State for worst P5 academically. UT-Austin is the 9th best school academically in the P5 and is a huge outlier in the BigXII.

(World ranking is the #number that follows the university's name)
1. Stanford #2 PAC
2. UC-Berkeley #6 PAC
3. UC-Los Angeles #15 PAC
4. Michigan #19 B1G
5. Northwestern #21 B1G
6. Wisconsin #25 B1G
7. Washington #27 PAC
8. Duke #29 ACC
9. UT-Austin #32 BigXII
10. Illinois #34 B1G
11. North Carolina #38 ACC
12. Virginia #40 ACC
13. Rutgers #43 B1G
14. Southern Cal #44 PAC
15. Minnesota #45 B1G
16. Ohio State #46 B1G
17. Pittsburgh #47 ACC
18. Penn State #52 B1G
19. Purdue #56 B1G
20. Florida #59 SEC
21. Colorado #65 PAC
22. Utah #66 PAC
23. Maryland #68 B1G
24. Vanderbilt #71 SEC
25. Arizona #73 PAC

Every single one of these institutions is an AAU-member. Lots of PAC and B1G in that list, not a lot of the other conferences.

I wonder how much TCU's mission influences their academic rankings. They usually get glowingly high reviews from the "undergrad" university rankings, which are more or less irrelevant in academics especially at the level of B1G or PAC membership, and TCU does just atrocious in actual academic output rankings (competitive research dollars, peer reviewed research publications, nobel prizes, etc).

[dgtw]

I did not know about the border rule for the Big Ten. I have heard they also require members to have a wrestling team, a sport Texas does not currently sponsor. Anyone know if that is true?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Cocky]

Does UNC-Chapel Hill get credit for all of the free grades people have received?

[Twentysix]

Does UNC-Chapel Hill get credit for all of the free grades people have received?

Haha, of course grades are relative from one university to another and even from class to class. They have no bearing in academic ranking.

I think I remember some B1G programs having players that couldn't read when I was a little kid.

[kdinva]

I think I remember some B1G programs having players that couldn't read when I was a little kid.

or, Dexter Manley?

[Cocky]

Haha, of course grades are relative from one university to another and even from class to class. They have no bearing in academic ranking.

I think I remember some B1G programs having players that couldn't read when I was a little kid.

Really shows your commitment to academics. Amazing how a institution of higher learning can maintain a good rating while not giving a flip about some students' academics. It also shows the amount of importance the rating institutions put on academics.

Did the AAU remove any of the universities? If not it shows the real value of the membership.

[jacksfan29]

I've heard the P4 idea but it is the Big 12 that would go away.

The Big 12 expansion is nothing more than a money grab, the most blatant money grab in college sports history.


I was listening to national sports radio, either ESPN or Fox, the other day, and they were talking about the Big 12 expansion. They were saying the P5 wants to become the P4, with 4 sixteen team conferences( Big 10, Big 12, SEC, PAC 10). They were saying 4 conferences lines up better for the playoff system. If this happens ACC will become a G5 conference after the top teams go to other G5 conferences. They talked about this for over a hour. They were saying the Big 12 expansion this year is the start of this move to 4 power conferences.

[OSBF]

The idiots on RBF still talk about the MVC/MVFC moving "up" to FBS all together as a conference. STILL.

No matter how many times you explain how the process works and even post links to the NCAA football handbook....................

[ST_Lawson]

I've heard the P4 idea but it is the Big 12 that would go away.

The Big 12 expansion is nothing more than a money grab, the most blatant money grab in college sports history.

That's kinda what I was thinking would be more likely. If the Big 10, PAC 12, SEC, and ACC all pick off a few teams of the Big 12 to get to 16....

Something like:
PAC picks up teams like Texas Tech, Baylor (if their recent problems don't cause them to drop from "P5-status"), TCU....maybe Texas (although there's the whole Longhorn Network issue), or Kansas, or possibly an upgraded top-tier G5 team like Houston
SEC grabs Oklahoma and Oklahoma State
ACC takes West Virginia
Big 10 takes Iowa State and maybe K-State

All four of the other "P" conferences could get up to 16 teams (two divisions of 8) and it wouldn't leave much in the way of a Big 12 left. The Big 12 almost folded once before when they lost Colorado to the PAC 12, Nebraska to the Big 10, and Mizzou and TA&M to the SEC. They were able to pull in TCU and West Virginia to survive then, but I could easily see some of those schools being picked off...the B12 falls down below the minimum number of teams that they'd need to keep going, and they do fold this time.

None of this would have hardly any effect on the G5 and probably no impact at all on the FCS, outside of maybe having to do some revised scheduling of games.

[walliver]

There are not many G5's that would really fit in with the P5 - many of the B12 candiadates are head-scratchers. There are only a very few FCS programs that would benefit from FBS - JMU to C-USA comes to mind. Liberty could support FBS but doesn't have a home. Most of the MVFC teams are better off where they are than moving to the MAC or MWC. Picking up a few Thursday night ESPN games and trading the playoffs for a minor bowl is not much of an upgrade.

I can't think of a single addition that would actually upgrade the Big 12 - short of stealing from another P5. Short of the "ideal P4" dicussed in this thread, the current B12 is not particularly attractive to P5 teams looking to move.

[WileECoyote06]

pfffft I just spit whisky all over my screen. I think you think sports are a lot more important than they are.

I don't think sports are that important. . but this has already happened. Have we already forgotten about Orrin Hatch asking the Justice Department to investigate the BCS back in 2009? Or the governor of Virginia getting Va. Tech in the ACC?

The ACC will be fine, the BIG 12 will be fine and these sportswriters are going to keep on talking about it until an eight team playoff happens.

[AshevilleApp2]

I don't think sports are that important. . but this has already happened. Have we already forgotten about Orrin Hatch asking the Justice Department to investigate the BCS back in 2009? Or the governor of Virginia getting Va. Tech in the ACC?

The ACC will be fine, the BIG 12 will be fine and these sportswriters are going to keep on talking about it until an eight team playoff happens.

Not to mention eastern NC Legislators talking about taking action if Carolina and State didn't start scheduling home and home's with East Carolina. It happens.

[Sader87]

The bottom third or so of the FBS today is "glorified 1-AA" imo. I can see many of the so-called G5 moving back to whatevah the FCS level will be in another decade or so. Idaho is only the staht of such of a movement.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

The bottom third or so of the FBS today is "glorified 1-AA" imo. I can see many of the so-called G5 moving back to whatevah the FCS level will be in another decade or so. Idaho is only the staht of such of a movement.

P5 teams that I consider "above FCS" most years. Everyone is entitled to a bad year here and there...

AAC - Houston, Navy, Cincinnati, Temple, East Carolina, UCF, USF
CUSA - Marshall and Louisiana Tech
MWC - Boise State, Air Force, San Diego State, Colorado State, Fresno State, Nevada, Utah State(??)
MAC - Toledo, Northern Illinois, Ohio, Bowling Green, WMU/CMU(??)
Sun Belt - Arkansas State and Louisiana Lafayette

[smilo]

P5 teams that I consider "above FCS" most years. Everyone is entitled to a bad year here and there...

AAC - Houston, Navy, Cincinnati, Temple, East Carolina, UCF, USF
CUSA - Marshall and Louisiana Tech
MWC - Boise State, Air Force, San Diego State, Colorado State, Fresno State, Nevada, Utah State(??)
MAC - Toledo, Northern Illinois, Ohio, Bowling Green, WMU/CMU(??)
Sun Belt - Arkansas State and Louisiana Lafayette


Wow, that's a- uh, severe recency (homer?) bias right there. Temple, dude? C'mon. I go to half their games to cheer 'em on, but give me a break. Over a glorified program like Southern Miss?

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Wow, that's a- uh, severe recency (homer?) bias right there. Temple, dude? C'mon. I go to half their games to cheer 'em on, but give me a break. Over a glorified program like Southern Miss?

That's over the last 5-10 years.

I would have included Southern Miss but they're a complete mess right now. Memphis is the other school I considered. Temple has been better on average the last several years.

Since Golden's second year, I think we'd fair quite well in FCS. The 2008 team that finished 5-7 and 2014 when we finished 6-6 would have been just fine in FCS....
4-8
5-7
9-4
8-4
9-4
4-7
2-10
6-6
10-4
2016 picked second in AAC East...

[Sader87]

C-USA, the MAC and the Sun Belt programs are all basically 1-AA programs with lipstick on imo. Both on and off the field (attendence, media coverage etc), they are far closer to the top of the FCS than they are to the top of the FBS.

[Schism55]

P5 teams that I consider "above FCS" most years. Everyone is entitled to a bad year here and there...

AAC - Houston, Navy, Cincinnati, Temple, East Carolina, UCF, USF
CUSA - Marshall and Louisiana Tech
MWC - Boise State, Air Force, San Diego State, Colorado State, Fresno State, Nevada, Utah State(??)
MAC - Toledo, Northern Illinois, Ohio, Bowling Green, WMU/CMU(??)
Sun Belt - Arkansas State and Louisiana Lafayette

Colorado St. is not good. Easily could be an fcs team. Although new on campus stadium opening next year could change things.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Colorado St. is not good. Easily could be an fcs team. Although new on campus stadium opening next year could change things.

They were nationally relevant in 90's under Sonny Lubick. I remember a few big games with Utah back then for conference supremacy. They also played in 3 Holiday bowls during that time. Since Lubick left it's been mostly up and down. They had a real bad stretch 8-9 years ago but have since bounced back. With the right coach the ceiling is pretty high in Fort Collins imo. The new stadium should only help their recruiting. Academically it's a damn good school. It's one of the more underrated state schools in the country imo....

[RootinFerDukes]

C-USA, the MAC and the Sun Belt programs are all basically 1-AA programs with lipstick on imo. Both on and off the field (attendence, media coverage etc), they are far closer to the top of the FCS than they are to the top of the FBS.

No truer statement can be found in this thread.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

No truer statement can be found in this thread.

I don't think the top of the MAC has much in common with FCS. Northern Illinois, and especially Toledo, are two or three rungs above FCS. Both of those programs have a legit shot to spend most of the year ranked. Given ESPN's love of mid-week MACtion, the conference's media coverage is far superior than the MVFC, CAA or Big Sky.

Marshall plays big boy football too. Southern Miss use to....

[Big_Fan]

P5 teams that I consider "above FCS" most years. Everyone is entitled to a bad year here and there...

AAC - Houston, Navy, Cincinnati, Temple, East Carolina, UCF, USF
CUSA - Marshall and Louisiana Tech
MWC - Boise State, Air Force, San Diego State, Colorado State, Fresno State, Nevada, Utah State(??)
MAC - Toledo, Northern Illinois, Ohio, Bowling Green, WMU/CMU(??)
Sun Belt - Arkansas State and Louisiana Lafayette

I don't think any of the current Sunbelt teams are better than FCS level. Some of them are the equivalent of very good FCS teams during any given season, but none of them are above FCS.

LaLa has been FBS since 1981, but we beat them as recently as 2000 (and we were NOT a good team). They have about as many losing seasons as winning once since moving up, but I am fairly certain they have many more losses than wins. Former D2 coach Mark Hudspeth has done well there.

Arkie State had a surge under Freeze and then Malzahn, and is still riding it a little... but man, that program has been a dog since Reagan's first term. They moved up in 1992, but they were a bad FCS team for almost a decade before they moved up. We beat them at their place in 2001... and we were not a good team. Their talent level has been above their station for a few years... eventually that will revert back to the norm - quality players don't want to play in a delta rice field.

[katstrapper]

I don't think any of the current Sunbelt teams are better than FCS level. Some of them are the equivalent of very good FCS teams during any given season, but none of them are above FCS.

LaLa has been FBS since 1981, but we beat them as recently as 2000 (and we were NOT a good team). They have about as many losing seasons as winning once since moving up, but I am fairly certain they have many more losses than wins. Former D2 coach Mark Hudspeth has done well there.

Arkie State had a surge under Freeze and then Malzahn, and is still riding it a little... but man, that program has been a dog since Reagan's first term. They moved up in 1992, but they were a bad FCS team for almost a decade before they moved up. We beat them at their place in 2001... and we were not a good team. Their talent level has been above their station for a few years... eventually that will revert back to the norm - quality players don't want to play in a delta rice field.

There are not many teams in the SunBelch Conference that want to schedule any of the current top FCS programs .

[clenz]

I don't think any of the current Sunbelt teams are better than FCS level. Some of them are the equivalent of very good FCS teams during any given season, but none of them are above FCS.

The Sun Belt is the FCS. Look at their membership

Conference started in 2001

2016 Standings:
Georgia Southern - FCS until 2015
UL-Lafayette
App State - FCS until 2015
Texas State - FCS until 2013....and they were a BAD FCS team
Arkansas State - FCS until 1992
South Alabama - football start up in 2009. Wasn't FBS until 2012
UL-Monroe - FCS until 1993
Troy - FCS until 2001
New Mexico St
Idaho - FCS until 1997 and dropping back to FCS in 2018
Georgia State - start up program in 2010, wasn't FBS until 2013. By far the worst program in the FBS...not even close...and they would be one of the worst FCS programs in the nation...were while they were FCS. They have 1 non Sun Belt FBS win and are just 8-15 against the FCS...Oh and 1-1 vs D2 and 0-1 against NAIA

Joining next season Coastal Carolina - only had football since 2003



Only two schools, UL-L and NMSU, have been "FBS" since the split in 1978 and one of them is in "real danger" of moving FCS or dropping football as they are being kicked from the SBC next year.

[Thumper 76]

The Sun Belt is the FCS. Look at their membership

Conference started in 2001

2016 Standings:
Georgia Southern - FCS until 2015
UL-Lafayette
App State - FCS until 2015
Texas State - FCS until 2013....and they were a BAD FCS team
Arkansas State - FCS until 1992
South Alabama - football start up in 2009. Wasn't FBS until 2012
UL-Monroe - FCS until 1993
Troy - FCS until 2001
New Mexico St
Idaho - FCS until 1997 and dropping back to FCS in 2018
Georgia State - start up program in 2010, wasn't FBS until 2013. By far the worst program in the FBS...not even close...and they would be one of the worst FCS programs in the nation...were while they were FCS. They have 1 non Sun Belt FBS win and are just 8-15 against the FCS...Oh and 1-1 vs D2 and 0-1 against NAIA

Joining next season Coastal Carolina - only had football since 2003



Only two schools, UL-L and NMSU, have been "FBS" since the split in 1978 and one of them is in "real danger" of moving FCS or dropping football as they are being kicked from the SBC next year.

Oh #FunBelt. The "We're FBS too!" league. Also, who in their right mind decided on that to be their hashtag? xlolx

[Catatonic]

A question for those of you who support elite (top 25) FCS programs: What is your school's record vs FBS schools? There's a site that breaks down the record of each FBS school vs FCS but I have not found one that lists FCS schools. FBS schools have dominated FCS opponents but that might be because FBS schools won't schedule elite FCS opponents. Looking at the overall record of elite FCS schools vs bigger schools might provide a better picture of comparability.

[NY Crusader 2010]

Texas State had, what, one good season? I remember watching them in the playoff quarters or semis in 2005 (I think). They were called SW Texas State back then IIRC. New Mexico State should join the Missouri Valley as an all-sports member and the MVFC. Their best hope to stay FBS is if somehow the MWC gets poached by the Big XII and they wind up replacing Colorado State or Boise.

[clenz]

Texas State had, what, one good season? I remember watching them in the playoff quarters or semis in 2005 (I think). They were called SW Texas State back then IIRC. New Mexico State should join the Missouri Valley as an all-sports member and the MVFC.
Yes...05

They took a knee as the #3 team in the nation with about 2 minutes left against UNI to go to OT at home a week after UNI had to play #1 New Hampshire on the road in the playoffs. Lost in OT.

MVC fans would take NMSU in a second (well, most MVC schools...the ones that matter). I don't know about leveraging into the MVFC though.

With the Summit on the verge of losing a baseball autobid, and thus a basketball autobid, I don't know we could leverage NMSU in from the MVC side of it...in this hypothetical.

[Catatonic]

Texas State had, what, one good season? I remember watching them in the playoff quarters or semis in 2005 (I think). They were called SW Texas State back then IIRC. New Mexico State should join the Missouri Valley as an all-sports member and the MVFC. Their best hope to stay FBS is if somehow the MWC gets poached by the Big XII and they wind up replacing Colorado State or Boise.

Abilene Christian beat Tx State pretty soundly in 2007 while ACU was still in D2.

[RootinFerDukes]

Man, how pissed should UL-Lafayette be? They're stuck in a 10 team conference where they are the sole program that was never I-AA/FCS. Talk about failure to advance.

[Sammy94]

Abilene Christian beat Tx State pretty soundly in 2007 while ACU was still in D2.

Probably still would.

[Cocky]

Texas State had, what, one good season? I remember watching them in the playoff quarters or semis in 2005 (I think). They were called SW Texas State back then IIRC. New Mexico State should join the Missouri Valley as an all-sports member and the MVFC. Their best hope to stay FBS is if somehow the MWC gets poached by the Big XII and they wind up replacing Colorado State or Boise.

Didnt they hire a guy who struggled at UAT? If you cant win there with the unlimited resources to pay coaches, players, officials or anyone else you a loser.