WHO IS THE BEST COACH IN FCS FOOTBALL?

[BigSouthFan]

As of right now, who is the best coach in FCS football, and why? It can be based on whatever you want it to be based on, just think it would be fun to see names and reasonings as to what the FCS world thinks!

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

Two of the best are UNIs Farley and NDSUs Klieman.

[Daytripper]

Two of the best are UNIs Farley and NDSUs Klieman.


I'll throw Keeler in the mix. His regular seasons are a roller coaster but he usually makes a deep run in the playoffs.

[BEAR]

That's tough..

Best as in on field success?
Graduation rate success?
Intangibles?
Recruting success?

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

I'll throw Keeler in the mix. His regular seasons are a roller coaster but he usually makes a deep run in the playoffs.


Agree

[Professor Chaos]

The homer in me says Klieman and to a certain degree that's accurate due to his success but he's had all the advantages in terms of support and tradition already in place before he even took the job.

IMO, no one has done more with less than Charleston Southern's Jamey Chadwell.

[Thumper 76]

That's tough..

Best as in on field success?
Graduation rate success?
Intangibles?
Recruting success?

I think the recruiting success shows in the on field results, so that kinda is out the window. And I would say on field is probably the easiest way to measure for something like this.


And to respond to the OP, I have to go with coach K at NDSU. If you're talking more with less you have to throw Stig in there for SDSU. He didn't have much to work with really coming into the transition and made us into a perennially ranked and playoff team.

[clenz]

The homer in me says Klieman and to a certain degree that's accurate due to his success but he's had all the advantages in terms of support and tradition already in place before he even took the job.

IMO, no one has done more with less than Charleston Southern's Jamey Chadwell.
Klieman has had that advantage, but look at what he did with UNI's defense when he was there and what he built. NDSU fans hate me saying this but he and Farley are one in the same in almost every way.

I'd say, in no order, the top coaches are
Chadwell
Farley
Klieman
Baldwin
Rocco
Talley (though he is retiring this year)
Grass
Keeler
Stig


I would have thrown Viator in there until he left for Louisiana Monroe this past off season.

[Daytripper]

The homer in me says Klieman and to a certain degree that's accurate due to his success but he's had all the advantages in terms of support and tradition already in place before he even took the job.

IMO, no one has done more with less than Charleston Southern's Jamey Chadwell.


xnodx

[JSUSoutherner]

Cough... John Grass... Cough....

[Daytripper]

Cough... John Grass... Cough....


He would be on my (relatively) short list.

[ASU33]

Klieman has had that advantage, but look at what he did with UNI's defense when he was there and what he built. NDSU fans hate me saying this but he and Farley are one in the same in almost every way.

I'd say, in no order, the top coaches are
Chadwell
Farley
Klieman
Baldwin
Rocco
Talley (though he is retiring this year)
Grass
Keeler
Stig


I would have thrown Viator in there until he left for Louisiana Monroe this past off season.


Pretty Solid list!

[Daytripper]

Follow-up question: Who will be the first to take an FBS gig?

I'm guessing Baldwin.

[IBleedYellow]

<Insert my team's coach here>

Basically how this thread is.

[clenz]

<Insert my team's coach here>

Basically how this thread is.
I saw someone on twitter claim Turner Gill....I decided to call that one out.

In 4 years he has 2 6-5 seasons (including last year) and 1 playoff season all while having 5 times the resources of anyone else in the conference.

[Daytripper]

<Insert my team's coach here>

Basically how this thread is.

See Professor Chaos' post. See my endorsement of Chadwell and Grass. I don't see HBU fans pimping their coach.

[IBleedYellow]

I would say Mark Farley is the best coach in the country, when he is not playing against NDSU.

The second he starts trying to change things, it ****s in his face.

See: UNI vs NDSU almost every time they play. For some reason he decides "Oh this was working great against everyone else, but I bet NDSU won't be able to be beaten this way."

Just that small little change and poof, they lose.

Coach John Grass seems to be doing well down @ JSU, but let's see how long he can keep that transfer gravy train going. If he can get it set up with more HS students, and develop them, he'll kill it.

[SU DOG]

I really don't think Nick Saban could have won 28 games in the last 3 years at Charleston Southern, given their lack of resources. I know they have made some improvements, but what Jamey Chadwell has accomplished there is mind-boggling IMO. xcoffeex

[BisonTru]

Brock Spack deserves a mention, IMO.

I know his handling of the Coprich situation isn't popular myself included, but he's been apart of a top team two years running and recruiting wise the talent seems to be coming in.

[Thumper 76]

<Insert my team's coach here>

Basically how this thread is.

xlolx hey I think Stig is great and does great for SDSU with what he was given to work with, but I don't thinks he's the best coach in the conference let alone the country. I wouldn't get rid of him for sure, but that's not the same discussion.

[Mattymc727]

YOU ARE ALL IDIOTS

Nobody has done more with less than Coach Sean McDonnell. Best coach in the land. Friggin Miracle worker.

Not to mention 2 Eddie Robinson awards.

[IBleedYellow]

xlolx hey I think Stig is great and does great for SDSU with what he was given to work with, but I don't thinks he's the best coach in the conference let alone the country. I wouldn't get rid of him for sure, but that's not the same discussion.

Stig is a great coach...and it's insane that the State of South Dakota only allows your coaches on one year contracts...

Stig does insane taking that stipulation into consideration.

[Thumper 76]

Stig is a great coach...and it's insane that the State of South Dakota only allows your coaches on one year contracts...

Stig does insane taking that stipulation into consideration.

That's changed or changing here really quickly. (Cue the you're welcome crap from yote fans)

[JSUSoutherner]

I would say Mark Farley is the best coach in the country, when he is not playing against NDSU.

The second he starts trying to change things, it ****s in his face.

See: UNI vs NDSU almost every time they play. For some reason he decides "Oh this was working great against everyone else, but I bet NDSU won't be able to be beaten this way."

Just that small little change and poof, they lose.

Coach John Grass seems to be doing well down @ JSU, but let's see how long he can keep that transfer gravy train going. If he can get it set up with more HS students, and develop them, he'll kill it.

The transfer gravy train is only four starters (possibly less) long this year. 10 starters on defense this year are home grown guys. So yeah. Hoping it will be another fun year.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

Brock Spack deserves a mention, IMO.

I know his handling of the Coprich situation isn't popular myself included, but he's been apart of a top team two years running and recruiting wise the talent seems to be coming in.

IMO, Stig is head and shoulders above Spack.

[BisonTru]

Stig is a great coach...and it's insane that the State of South Dakota only allows your coaches on one year contracts...

Stig does insane taking that stipulation into consideration.

It does help that he's been at SDSU since '88 and the head coach since '97. I'd say it's safe to say he's going to be at SDSU for at least a few more seasons. I do agree though that they should allow multiyear deals. If Stig does start getting some interest from the big boys they might want to change their tune in a hurry.

[dewey]

Here would be my list (No particular order).
Klieman NDSU (The NDSU defense has been stellar the last 5 years but he has only been the head coach for 2 years)
Farley UNI (A model of a consistent winning coach...the knock is that with all those good teams he hasn't been able to win a NC...could also prove how hard it is to win a NC.)
Talley Villanova (Record at Villanova: 215-128-1, .626 (30 Years))
Keeler SHSU (The guy won a UD then went to SHSU and has been a winner there
Grass JSU (Short time as coach but he has won a lot of games)
Stiegelmeier SDSU (Consistent winner that had bad facilities...does the program get better now that they have better facilities?)
Chadwell CSU (28 wins in the last 3 seasons entering his fourth season)
McDonnell UNH (I missed him originally but he is certainly one of the best)

Dewey

[IBleedYellow]

That's changed or changing here really quickly. (Cue the you're welcome crap from yote fans)

Hey, you guys should thank the Yotes for fixing that issue!!

[UNIFanSince1983]

YOU ARE ALL IDIOTS

Nobody has done more with less than Coach Sean McDonnell. Best coach in the land. Friggin Miracle worker.

Not to mention 2 Eddie Robinson awards.

Yeah not sure why people are leaving him out, but UNH's McDonnell is an outstanding coach.

[Thumper 76]

Hey, you guys should thank the Yotes for fixing that issue!!

Ehhhhh, I think all they really did was force it out into the public. I do thank them for that though, as it moved that process along by a couple of years with how SD operates. Stig did say over the summer that they had been working behind the scenes with the BOR for three or four years to change that though.

[IBleedYellow]

...you didn't bite on that even a little bit. I am disappointed in myself.

[Thumper 76]

...you didn't bite on that even a little bit. I am disappointed in myself.

It was a solid attempt. But not your best work.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

<Insert my team's coach here>

Basically how this thread is.

I'm a couple pages behind but after flipping to this page...that was my exact thought. xlolx

[AmsterBison]

Klieman is terrible. No FBS teams should look at him when they have an opening. I saw him pour ice water on a kitten while burning an American flag*.

* when this shows up in a Fargo Forum blog, I expect to get a writing credit.

[clenz]

Here would be my list (No particular order).

Farley UNI (A model of a consistent winning coach...the knock is that with all those good teams he hasn't been able to win a NC...could also prove how hard it is to win a NC.)
Dewey
Bolded is the truest part of that.

There have been 38 title games - only 21 champions - 24 of those titles belong to 7 schools. Out of the 76 possible team playing in the title game, 55 belong to 13 schools.
Since 2005 there has been 11 title games - two schools have 8 of them.
7 of the 21 teams with a title are no longer FCS - that accounts for 15 of the titles all time.

I know NDSU, GSU, ASU, YSU, etc.. have made it look easy during their runs, but outside of runs like that it takes an incredible amount of real good fortune to get there and win. Between 05 and 08 UNI very..very...easily could have had 3 titles. 2005 had the lead in the title game with less than 5 minutes left when a freshman left tackle got beat around the edge and a strip sack was returned for the winning touchdown. 07 UNI was the #1 team in the nation, running all over Joe Flacco and the Blue Hens in the quaters and then a 55 yard fumble return for a touchdown in the second quarter swung all of the momentum to UD as it happened just 20 seconds after they had scored a touchdown on offense. That, with the way the game was going, was a minimum of a 10 point swing. 2008 in the semi-finals Richmond pulls off one the best executed 1 minute drills I'd ever seen...after UNI's all world punter has the worst punt of his career with less than 2 minutes left in the game.

Yes, those are all "excuses" but it goes to show how much 1 bounce of a ball - literally 2 fumbles that UNI just missed recovering and a punt with a bad bounce - can completely change everything.

[dewey]

Bolded is the truest part of that.

There have been 38 title games - only 21 champions - 24 of those titles belong to 7 schools. Out of the 86 possible team playing in the title game, 55 belong to 13 schools.
Since 2005 there has been 11 title games - two schools have 8 of them.
7 of the 21 teams with a title are no longer FCS - that accounts for 15 of the titles all time.

I know NDSU, GSU, ASU, YSU, etc.. have made it look easy during their runs, but outside of runs like that it takes an incredible amount of real good fortune to get there and win. Between 05 and 08 UNI very..very...easily could have had 3 titles. 2005 had the lead in the title game with less than 5 minutes left when a freshman left tackle got beat around the edge and a strip sack was returned for the winning touchdown. 07 UNI was the #1 team in the nation, running all over Joe Flacco and the Blue Hens in the quaters and then a 55 yard fumble return for a touchdown in the second quarter swung all of the momentum to UD as it happened just 20 seconds after they had scored a touchdown on offense. That, with the way the game was going, was a minimum of a 10 point swing. 2008 in the semi-finals Richmond pulls off one the best executed 1 minute drills I'd ever seen...after UNI's all world punter has the worst punt of his career with less than 2 minutes left in the game.

Yes, those are all "excuses" but it goes to show how much 1 bounce of a ball - literally 2 fumbles and a punt with a bad bounce - can completely change everything.

I don't think that a bad bounce is an excuse at all. I think it is more how amazing the run for NDSU has been that they haven't lost a playoff game due to a bad bounce...I guess EWU could be in that category. NDSU had their chances to win but didn't. I think of how many times NDSU has won a playoff game that they could have easily lost due to a roughing the passer penalty (GSU 2012 DT Brent Russell), 2014 against Illinois State (numerous times), 2015 against UNI a spin and quite a few broken tackles on an amazing kick return for a TD by BRRRRUUUUUCCCCE Anderson pretty much wins the game for NDSU. I mean how many UNI players missed tackles on that play (sorry for the trip down misery lane clenz).

Dewey

[Catbooster]

<Insert my team's coach here>

Basically how this thread is.
Coach Choate, Montana State. Came into the job with a team that was in disarray, had it's first losing record for ? years, no defense, etc. He's totally turned it around and has not lost a game since arriving.






xeyebrowxxdrunkyx

;)

[dewey]

Coach Choate, Montana State. Came into the job with a team that was in disarray, had it's first losing record for ? years, no defense, etc. He's totally turned it around and has not lost a game since arriving.






xeyebrowxxdrunkyx

;)

It is hard to argue against a coach that is undefeated:D

Dewey

[JALMOND]

The homer in me says Klieman and to a certain degree that's accurate due to his success but he's had all the advantages in terms of support and tradition already in place before he even took the job.

IMO, no one has done more with less than Charleston Southern's Jamey Chadwell.


Bruce Barnum has done a lot more with a lot less. People in the city are actually talking up Portland State football this summer. Some showing their ignorance by trying to actually analyze the season but hey, some press is better than no press (that is for sure). The program was close to being on its last legs for awhile.

We don't hear too much about other FCS coaches out here, but I was really impressed with UNI's coach, both his resume and his personality. I think he would be a tough one to top.

[UNHWildcat18]

YOU ARE ALL IDIOTS

Nobody has done more with less than Coach Sean McDonnell. Best coach in the land. Friggin Miracle worker.

Not to mention 2 Eddie Robinson awards.

This^ UNH has had literally the worst FCS facility for the last 50 years. Between the facilities and every other pitch used for recruiting, he has hands down done more than any other coach to build a program. He takes undersized and looked over athletes and produces playoff teams for 12 years straight. He is top 3 no matter what IMO

[BisonTru]

Bruce Barnum has done a lot more with a lot less. People in the city are actually talking up Portland State football this summer. Some showing their ignorance by trying to actually analyze the season but hey, some press is better than no press (that is for sure). The program was close to being on its last legs for awhile.

We don't hear too much about other FCS coaches out here, but I was really impressed with UNI's coach, both his resume and his personality. I think he would be a tough one to top.

It's impressive what Bruce has done, but I think we need to see him keep PSU at a high level for a couple season before we can start talking about one of the best in the nation.

I hope he can get it done. His first season was a success.

[Terry2889]

This^ UNH has had literally the worst FCS facility for the last 50 years. Between the facilities and every other pitch used for recruiting, he has hands down done more than any other coach to build a program. He takes undersized and looked over athletes and produces playoff teams for 12 years straight. He is top 3 no matter what IMO

Has anyone mentioned Jimmye Laycock? He's done a hell of a lot of winning facing some of the toughest academic requirements in the nation.

[ST_Lawson]

<Insert my team's coach here>

Basically how this thread is.

Fisher is undefeated at Western ;)

But seriously, Klieman, Barnum, dude at CSU, Stig. Hard to pick the absolute best out of them, but you can probably put those few and one or two others in the group of the maybe 5 FCS coaches that are head and shoulders above the rest at this point.

[KPSUL]

Has anyone mentioned Jimmye Laycock? He's done a hell of a lot of winning facing some of the toughest academic requirements in the nation.

Laycock is at the honorable mention level at best . William and Mary is among the most marketable schools to perspective recruits. Elite institution, beautiful campus, quintessential college town. He has little problem attracting, and retaining, plenty of the best students athletes, evidenced by the number of early commits they recruit each year and the number of former W&M players in the NFL. Considering all the advantages and support he gets, I consider him a bit of an underachiever.

[KPSUL]

Anyone who has objectively followed FCS football for the last 10 years would have Sean McDonnell in their top 5.

[SFA 93]

Harper

[Drblankstare]

Coach Stig from SDSU is damn good. That gameplan for the 2014 2nd round NDSU SDSU game was almost perfect. That Zenner wildcat package had NDSU baffled for awhile. I really feel he out game planned Kleiman that day.

[Daytripper]

Harper

Wahahahahahahaha!!!!!

[Son of Eli]

Al Bagnoli, formerly of Penn and now of Columbia. Once he turns Columbia into a winning program ( he's already making good progress) there will be no doubt.

[Vermont]

Hard to believe that any coach has consistently done more at such a high national level with less than UNH's Sean MacDonnell. And,...his coaches move on all the time, but he just keeps plugging and playing with new staff,...

[superman7515]

Dave Brock because after a nationwide search, his buddy found him to be the most qualified applicant that he already had in mind, and since arriving he has done what no coach in 100 years before him could.

[jsualumnus]

Klieman has had that advantage, but look at what he did with UNI's defense when he was there and what he built. NDSU fans hate me saying this but he and Farley are one in the same in almost every way.

I'd say, in no order, the top coaches are
Chadwell
Farley
Klieman
Baldwin
Rocco
Talley (though he is retiring this year)
Grass
Keeler
Stig


I would have thrown Viator in there until he left for Louisiana Monroe this past off season.

Somewhere, Chattownmocs sits and writes Huesman's name over and over and over and over...

[Go...gate]

I'll throw Keeler in the mix. His regular seasons are a roller coaster but he usually makes a deep run in the playoffs.

Yes. He has been a winner everywhere, going all the way back to Division III Glassboro State/Rowan.

[Go...gate]

Al Bagnoli, formerly of Penn and now of Columbia. Once he turns Columbia into a winning program ( he's already making good progress) there will be no doubt.

Agreed. Bagnoli does not get the credit he deserves.

[Cocky]

Probably the best one is some asst coach who hasnt gotten his chance yet.

[MRuler]

I am being a homer here wearing purple sunglasses but I think Bob Ford should be in consideration. He has never won a National Title but has been to the Post Season several times at various levels of competition. While in the NEC from 1999-2012 he won the NEC 6 times and made the NCAA tournament in 2011 with basically limited scholarships. Like Coach McDonnell from New Hampshire Ford has won without ANY FACILITIES and has played a brutal schedule at every level. If he played a lighter schedule he would have well over 300 wins vs what he has currently which I think is 268 wins. I believe win wise he is in the top 15 of all time coaches. 99% of those victories came with one hand tied behind his back.

[Da Bison]

What....... no Bo Pellini? (Purple)

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

[Thumper 76]

What....... no Bo Pellini? (Purple)

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

The best part is he hasn't even been mentioned for top ten consideration xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

What....... no Bo Pellini? (Purple)

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk


I cannot wait for the inevitable meltdown coming in the FD this year.

[MR. CHICKEN]

.....FO' MAH DUCATS.........xcoolx...K.C. KEELER.....IT WAS INSANE TA CAN HIM @ DELAWARE.....HE WANTED ALOT FROM AFFLETIC DEPT......HE WAS BEIN' OUT RECRUITED BAH JMU/WM&MARY.......KLIEMAN.....DON'T DOUBT HE'S GOOD......BUT DUH BIZON.....JUGGERNAUT.....WAS IN ASSEMBLY LINE PRODUCTION......B/4 HE GOT HIS CHANCE........AWK!

[Mayville Bison]

Thoughts on Joe Moglia? Or is he no longer considered FCS?

I was impressed with his coaching since he took over at CCU (4-5 years ago?). Not disagreeing that others are above him, but wanted to get some opinions.

[Daytripper]

Thoughts on Joe Moglia? Or is he no longer considered FCS?

I was impressed with his coaching since he took over at CCU (4-5 years ago?). Not disagreeing that others are above him, but wanted to get some opinions.

I concur.

[Ivytalk]

Tim Murphy of Harvard. 15 straight years with 7 or more wins, and several Ivy titles.

[BigHouseClosedEnd]

Plenty of great options out there. Sean McDonnell of UNH certainly has to be in the Top 5 of FCS coaches.

Rocco has done a remarkable job remaking our program. He took over a team that went 0-8 in the CAA and got us to the National Semifinals in 4 years.

[UNIFanSince1983]

Plenty of great options out there. Sean McDonnell of UNH certainly has to be in the Top 5 of FCS coaches.

Rocco has done a remarkable job remaking our program. He took over a team that went 0-8 in the CAA and got us to the National Semifinals in 4 years.

I never realized Richmond has had 3 coaches since London left.

[BigHouseClosedEnd]

I never realized Richmond has had 3 coaches since London left.

Officially, yes. Scott was the disaster fired for DUI. Lineburg was the interim after Scott was canned.

[geaux_sioux]

Barney has to be included in this discussion. I don't care if it hasnt been a long string of success. He hasn't had anything but success so far and I like how aggressive he coaches.

I'm not suprised to see Bubba not get mentioned since we haven't made the playoffs yet even though he turned a cupcake dumpster fire into a conference title contended in two years. I'll bet that in two years he will have earned enough respect to be mentioned as a top tier coach in FCS.

[VikingPSU]

Thoughts on Joe Moglia? Or is he no longer considered FCS?
Yes, not FCS

[caribbeanhen]

could any of your heralded coaches win immediately at Delaware State?

when that happens I will fly to Dover and bow down at his feet

[caribbeanhen]

Tim Murphy of Harvard. 15 straight years with 7 or more wins, and several Ivy titles.

right here

[Sader87]

Murphy is undoubtedly a good coach but at some point you have to ask: is it more the coach or the progam/school?

Has anybody mentioned the guy at St Francis(PA)? Talk about a school/program with limited resources and he seems to have made them very competitive in the NEC.

[penguinpower]

What....... no Bo Pellini? (Purple)

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

He gets in his own way too much. We will see this year. He seems to think YSU will be pretty good this year. The melt down last year was so bad they made a new NCAA rule this year for coach ejections. How many decades has the sport been around without this rule? I think he is an excellent defensive coach, but at Nebraska he had a thing for recruiting hard hitting midgets in comparison to the elite B1G athletes.

[SENOREIDA]

Thoughts on Joe Moglia? Or is he no longer considered FCS?

I was impressed with his coaching since he took over at CCU (4-5 years ago?). Not disagreeing that others are above him, but wanted to get some opinions.
Joe Moglia is amazing not only did he right the ship for on the field, but he has put the student in student athletes. It is now the norm for his players to graduate in 3 years, and to leave school after 4 years with a masters degree. That is huge, when Bennett was coaching, you would be lucky to see his players not to wind up in jail.

[Redbird 4th & short]

If you look at Spack and ISUr since 2011:

- 2011 .. finished 7-4, but ranked 8th by Massey, 9th by Sagarin, and got screwed out of playoff bid; lost at #1 NDSU by 10, though beat them in every meaningful statistical category; lost in 2 OT to #5 UNI by 3 and beat them badly in every meaningful stat (1st downs 27-12); College Sporting News gave ISU the "woof" award as the most screwed team to not get playoff bid. Both Bohl and Farley said ISU was the toughest FCS team they played that year and deserved a bid. NDSU beatUNI, but played them even .. we dominated UNI and lost on a bad weather day, because we couldn't finish drives.
- 2012 finished 8-3, rank in Top 10, made it to round of 8 playing 2 road playoff games against top 7 teams
- 2013 finished 5-6 .. horrible start, under-appreciate finish .. paved way to 2014 Natty run
- 2014 finished 10-1 .. ranked 5th, has to beat UNI at home, #4 EWU on road, #1 UNH on road, had lead against NDSU in final 2 minutes, but lost
- 2015 finished 9-2 .. ranked 2nd, made it to final 8

Not that others outside Redbird Nation notice or acknowledge these things, but if you were to ask Bohl/Kliemann and Farley who they struggle against most consistently the last 5 or 6 seasons, they would both put Spack/ISU near the top. Stats bear his out. Spack does very well preparing his teams for big games in conference. he hasn't done as well consistently outside the conference. So while he may not deserve Top 5 consideration across the board .. once he figures his opponent out, he usually does very well by comparison to most Top tier coaches.

So for 4 of last 5 years, Spack has ISU in the Top 2-8 discussion.

[Lehigh'98]

Tim Murphy of Harvard. 15 straight years with 7 or more wins, and several Ivy titles.

The fact that he wants no part of any OOC challenge puts a big asterisk next to his legacy at Harvard

[Herder]

IMO, Stig is head and shoulders above Spack.

Stig is a high integrity guy that runs a great program. I'd take Stig to run my program, but I'd take Spack to win a game, or if I had a player that needed a Spacking.

[JSUBison]

Probably the best one is some asst coach who hasnt gotten his chance yet.

I agree with your asst coach angle. No disrespect to Chris Klieman, but he isn't even the best coach at NDSU. Klieman gets to drive the sports car, but Jim Kramer built the engine.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fYtLLFdQtI

[Twentysix]

I agree with your asst coach angle. No disrespect to Chris Klieman, but he isn't even the best coach at NDSU. Klieman gets to drive the sports car, but Jim Kramer built the engine.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fYtLLFdQtI

Yeah, I'm amazed that we have retained him.

[Redbird 4th & short]

Stig is a high integrity guy that runs a great program. I'd take Stig to run my program, but I'd take Spack to win a game, or if I had a player that needed a Spacking.

http://www.valley-football.org/news/default/2015-16/8924/mvfc-announces-2015-16-academic-honors/

http://www.valley-football.org/news/default/2014-15/8182/valley-football-announces-2014-15-honor-roll/

Spack has raised academic results almost every year he has been at ISU .. MVFC honor roll, team GPA, etc. They are right up there at top with both NDSU and SDSU, and well ahead of the rest of conference.

[CHIP72]

The homer in me says Klieman and to a certain degree that's accurate due to his success but he's had all the advantages in terms of support and tradition already in place before he even took the job.

IMO, no one has done more with less than Charleston Southern's Jamey Chadwell.

I'm biased, but I take it you've never been to Villanova Stadium.

[JSUSoutherner]

I'm biased, but I take it you've never been to Villanova Stadium.
http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=23212&stc=1
http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=23213&stc=1

[Thumper 76]

God tracks around college stadiums should be illegal

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

I'm biased, but I take it you've never been to Villanova Stadium.

Villanova Stadium isn't that bad at all. I think overall Villanova's facilities (especially the Pavilion) are not as good as some expect given the school but they're still solid. With that said, Villanova Stadium is still in the top half of FCS stadiums imo. It's almost identical to Bucknell's stadium. The new field house will only make it better...

http://grfx.cstv.com/schools/nova/graphics/villanovastadium22.jpg

[JSUSoutherner]

God tracks around college stadiums should be illegal
Must spread rep.

[UNHWildcat18]

Villanova Stadium isn't that bad at all. I think overall Villanova's facilities (especially the Pavilion) are not as good as some expect given the school but they're still solid. With that said, Villanova Stadium is still in the top half of FCS stadiums imo. It's almost identical to Bucknell's stadium. The new field house will only make it better...

http://grfx.cstv.com/schools/nova/graphics/villanovastadium22.jpg

Maybe I'm crazy but the fact the away side of Villanova doesn't hug the track like the home side does at the end has always and will always bother me haha

[Thumper 76]

Maybe I'm crazy but the fact the away side of Villanova doesn't hug the track like the home side does at the end has always and will always bother me haha

I noticed that. Seems pretty odd to me, those seats must have great sight lines :S

[SENOREIDA]

I'm biased, but I take it you've never been to Villanova Stadium.
CSU has the worst facilities in the FCS. Imagine your local 1A high school, now imagine them beating FCS caliber teams. That is essentially Chuck South. Hell the surrounding high schools in Charleston County have nicer facilities, and larger stadiums. Chuck South didn't even have lights until 2 years ago and their stands are portable bleachers.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

CSU has the worst facilities in the FCS. Imagine your local 1A high school, now imagine them beating FCS caliber teams. That is essentially Chuck South. Hell the surrounding high schools in Charleston County have nicer facilities, and larger stadiums. Chuck South didn't even have lights until 2 years ago and their stands are portable bleachers.

Their stadium still looks nice than Georgetown's.

Jacksonville, Duquesne and Georgetown are the 3 worst imo. Says a lot about Duquesne's staff since the Dukes are usually pretty good...

[crusader11]

Tim Murphy of Harvard. 15 straight years with 7 or more wins, and several Ivy titles.

Yawn.

[Schism55]

God tracks around college stadiums should be illegal
Sooooo much this!

[ST_Lawson]

Their stadium still looks nice than Georgetown's.

Jacksonville, Duquesne and Georgetown are the 3 worst imo. Says a lot about Duquesne's staff since the Dukes are usually pretty good...

Is Georgetown upgrading theirs? Looks like they received a big donation and they're ramping it all the way up to like 4,500 seats or something?
Otherwise, yea...looks about on-par with a lot of D1 schools soccer fields.

[BigHouseClosedEnd]

Villanova Stadium isn't that bad at all. I think overall Villanova's facilities (especially the Pavilion) are not as good as some expect given the school but they're still solid. With that said, Villanova Stadium is still in the top half of FCS stadiums imo. It's almost identical to Bucknell's stadium. The new field house will only make it better...

http://grfx.cstv.com/schools/nova/graphics/villanovastadium22.jpg

Last time I was there, there was no functional plumbing on the visitor side. The concessions are a "snack bar" beyond the end zone.

The place, quite frankly, is a dump. A school of Villanova's size and continued level of success deserves a whole lot better.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Last time I was there, there was no functional plumbing on the visitor side. The concessions are a "snack bar" beyond the end zone.

The place, quite frankly, is a dump. A school of Villanova's size and continued level of success deserves a whole lot better.

I haven't been there since 2008 so my perception might be a little skewed. Still, the press box and actual seating area seemed nice to me. I might go to the Lehigh-Villanova game next month. It depends if I go to their season opener instead.

With all this said, I think Talley is the best active coach in FCS when you consider building a program, maintaining it, overall success, graduating players and dealing with tougher than average admission standards.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

My list. No disrespect meant to any of the programs.

1. Sean McDonnell. So many years of consistent winning. As other posters have mentioned, no one really does more with less than he does.

2. Russ Huesman. UTC was a doormat in football for almost three decades before he came along and made them respectable.

3. Jamey Chadwell. Has made a ranked FCS team in a program where a lot of their players played in a better stadium in high school.

4. Mike Houston. Made the Citadel a competitor again, did very well at Lenoir Rhyne.

5. Beau Baldwin. Outstanding recruiter, built a consistent winner at EWU.

6. KC Keeler. He made a believer out of me just by what he's done at SHSU so far. The maxim "you don't know what you've got 'till it's gone" might apply to Delaware here.

7. Bruce Barnum. On the watch list. Nice first season at Portland State.

Sorry, but I happen to think Mark Farley is overrated. He's a guy that's good enough to not get fired but not good enough to find a higher-paying job. His pedestrian offenses have been holding UNI back for a while IMO. He is the Frank Beamer of the FCS.

Chris Klieman...sorry, going to need to do more than win a couple of titles with NDSU (one which was won with a first-round draft pick QB) to make the cut. Craig Bohl won 3 and he's more than likely going to get his walking papers in Laramie just like Joe Glenn did.

Neither of these guys are bad coaches....just don't think they are at the top.

[JSUSoutherner]

My list. No disrespect meant to any of the programs.

1. Sean McDonnell. So many years of consistent winning. As other posters have mentioned, no one really does more with less than he does.

2. Russ Huesman. UTC was a doormat in football for almost three decades before he came along and made them respectable.

3. Jamey Chadwell. Has made a ranked FCS team in a program where a lot of their players played in a better stadium in high school.

4. Mike Houston. Made the Citadel a competitor again, did very well at Lenoir Rhyne.

5. Beau Baldwin. Outstanding recruiter, built a consistent winner at EWU.

6. KC Keeler. He made a believer out of me just by what he's done at SHSU so far. The maxim "you don't know what you've got 'till it's gone" might apply to Delaware here.

7. Bruce Barnum. On the watch list. Nice first season at Portland State.

Sorry, but I happen to think Mark Farley is overrated. He's a guy that's good enough to not get fired but not good enough to find a higher-paying job. His pedestrian offenses have been holding UNI back for a while IMO. He is the Frank Beamer of the FCS.

Chris Klieman...sorry, going to need to do more than win a couple of titles with NDSU (one which was won with a first-round draft pick QB) to make the cut. Craig Bohl won 3 and he's more than likely going to get his walking papers in Laramie just like Joe Glenn did.

Neither of these guys are bad coaches....just don't think they are at the top.
UTC is still a doormat. :D

[BigHouseClosedEnd]

With all this said, I think Talley is the best active coach in FCS when you consider building a program, maintaining it, overall success, graduating players and dealing with tougher than average admission standards.

i think that's fair. Definitely an incredible career and an incredible devotion to Villanova.

[mvemjsunpx]

5. Beau Baldwin. Outstanding recruiter, built a consistent winner at EWU.

Baldwin's a good coach, but he didn't really "build" EWU. Paul Wulff had 7 winning seasons in 8 years before Baldwin, Dick Zornes had a .574 winning percentage in 15 seasons (1979-93), and—hell—even Mike Kramer made the semis in 1997 (though his record wasn't good aside from that).

[CHIP72]

Maybe I'm crazy but the fact the away side of Villanova doesn't hug the track like the home side does at the end has always and will always bother me haha

The thing that bothers me is the stands on both sides extend further on the east end zone side of the field than the west (field house/main scoreboard) end zone side of the field. On the other hand, because most fans enter from the west side (and home side) of the stadium, you normally can get a good seat on the visitors side near midfield without being crowded by other fans.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[CHIP72]

CSU has the worst facilities in the FCS. Imagine your local 1A high school, now imagine them beating FCS caliber teams. That is essentially Chuck South. Hell the surrounding high schools in Charleston County have nicer facilities, and larger stadiums. Chuck South didn't even have lights until 2 years ago and their stands are portable bleachers.

They definitely appear to be considerably worse than Villanova's facilities. On the other hand, Villanova has won a national title playing in its (IMO) mediocre stadium. It's hard to achieve more than that, especially when you have relatively little. (I'm unsure if Villanova's prominence in basketball helps or hurts the football program; I do know the football program is largely an afterthought, if that, among most Villanova basketball fans.)


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[CHIP72]

Is Georgetown upgrading theirs? Looks like they received a big donation and they're ramping it all the way up to like 4,500 seats or something?
Otherwise, yea...looks about on-par with a lot of D1 schools soccer fields.

Hopefully any improvements will include restrooms in permanent buildings for starters.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[tomq04]

Baldwin's a good coach, but he didn't really "build" EWU. Paul Wulff had 7 winning seasons in 8 years before Baldwin, Dick Zornes had a .574 winning percentage in 15 seasons (1979-93), and—hell—even Mike Kramer made the semis in 1997 (though his record wasn't good aside from that).

I'll pseudo agree. Wullff did well all things considered, but Baldwin has made the playoffs all but 2 years (2011, 2015) and won a national champtionship (2010) and the most consectuive big sky titles (2012-2014)...seems like he's build a pretty damn solid program that expects wins.

I'm proud of Beau, I've definitely met him in town and shook his hand happy to tell him exactly that.

[wmmii]

We have many great coaches mentioned here and qualify as the "best".

it is disappointing to see that Jimmy Laycock of W&M not mentioned in this mix!

He has touched College football as our coach for 37 years playing in a stadium built during the depression at a school with high academic standards and taken us to 10 NCAA playoff games including two Semi final games. More importantly his players go onward to be successful College and Pro Football coaches (think Mike Tomlin) plus since 2009, W&M has produced six NFL Draft picks - a figure that leads the CAA and ranks second nationally in the FCS. Also ranks third in wins among all active D-I (FCS and FBS) coaches.

He came to W&M in 1980 and inherited a program that had won six or more games in a season just four times in the previous 25 years. During that 25 years our other coach include both Marv Levy (yes of Pro-football fame) and the one and only Lou Holtz!

Here is a link to learn about him:

http://www.tribeathletics.com/staff.aspx?staff=88

[kalm]

Hard to believe that any coach has consistently done more at such a high national level with less than UNH's Sean MacDonnell. And,...his coaches move on all the time, but he just keeps plugging and playing with new staff,...

Agreed McDonnell is right up there near the top, but all of the reasons applied to McDonnell apply to Baldwin as well. Poor facilities, great recruiter who develops undersized talent, assistant coaches leaving. McDonnell has done it longer but Baldwin has a chipper.

[kalm]

I'll pseudo agree. Wullff did well all things considered, but Baldwin has made the playoffs all but 2 years (2011, 2015) and won a national champtionship (2010) and the most consectuive big sky titles (2012-2014)...seems like he's build a pretty damn solid program that expects wins.

I'm proud of Beau, I've definitely met him in town and shook his hand happy to tell him exactly that.

Also pseudo agree. Wulff left Baldwin with talent but he also left him with NCAA sanctions and a ton of disorganization. The entire athletic department has done a nice job of bringing everything current including compliance, recruiting budgets, fund raising, branding, etc. Beau has played a big roll with these things.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

Agreed McDonnell is right up there near the top, but all of the reasons applied to McDonnell apply to Baldwin as well. Poor facilities, great recruiter who develops undersized talent, assistant coaches leaving. McDonnell has done it longer but Baldwin has a chipper.


If Baldwin is such a great coach, why has his defenses been so bad the last half decade?

He probably is a great offensive mind but his defenses have been very poor. EWU had a pretty decent defense in '10 when they won the NC.

[Thumper 76]

My list. No disrespect meant to any of the programs.

1. Sean McDonnell. So many years of consistent winning. As other posters have mentioned, no one really does more with less than he does.

2. Russ Huesman. UTC was a doormat in football for almost three decades before he came along and made them respectable.

3. Jamey Chadwell. Has made a ranked FCS team in a program where a lot of their players played in a better stadium in high school.

4. Mike Houston. Made the Citadel a competitor again, did very well at Lenoir Rhyne.

5. Beau Baldwin. Outstanding recruiter, built a consistent winner at EWU.

6. KC Keeler. He made a believer out of me just by what he's done at SHSU so far. The maxim "you don't know what you've got 'till it's gone" might apply to Delaware here.

7. Bruce Barnum. On the watch list. Nice first season at Portland State.

Sorry, but I happen to think Mark Farley is overrated. He's a guy that's good enough to not get fired but not good enough to find a higher-paying job. His pedestrian offenses have been holding UNI back for a while IMO. He is the Frank Beamer of the FCS.

Chris Klieman...sorry, going to need to do more than win a couple of titles with NDSU (one which was won with a first-round draft pick QB) to make the cut. Craig Bohl won 3 and he's more than likely going to get his walking papers in Laramie just like Joe Glenn did.

Neither of these guys are bad coaches....just don't think they are at the top.

Not arguing against anyone on you list, but it's hard to imagine the MVFC not having one coach on the top 5 with its stretch of dominance over the recent years here. I mean there has to be one right? You wouldn't say the SEC doesn't have any top coaches in it in FBS.

[BisonTru]

Sorry, but I happen to think Mark Farley is overrated. He's a guy that's good enough to not get fired but not good enough to find a higher-paying job. His pedestrian offenses have been holding UNI back for a while IMO. He is the Frank Beamer of the FCS.

Chris Klieman...sorry, going to need to do more than win a couple of titles with NDSU (one which was won with a first-round draft pick QB) to make the cut. Craig Bohl won 3 and he's more than likely going to get his walking papers in Laramie just like Joe Glenn did.

Neither of these guys are bad coaches....just don't think they are at the top.

I actually agree with these two. Farley gets a lot of respect from Bison fans because damn he always plays us tough no matter how good we are, but he also almost always a couple times a season pisses a game or two or sometimes enough to miss the playoffs, down his leg. He definitely can get athletes, but he would do well to hire an OC and just leave the offense alone.

I like Klieman. He might have been the perfect hire to keep this program chugging, but if he ever gets hired away to rebuild someone's program, I'm not sure he gets it done.

If I was G5 team and I needed a new coach and I could only pick from the MVFC. I probably would swipe Spack.

[Terry2889]

We have many great coaches mentioned here and qualify as the "best".

it is disappointing to see that Jimmy Laycock of W&M not mentioned in this mix!

He has touched College football as our coach for 37 years playing in a stadium built during the depression at a school with high academic standards and taken us to 10 NCAA playoff games including two Semi final games. More importantly his players go onward to be successful College and Pro Football coaches (think Mike Tomlin) plus since 2009, W&M has produced six NFL Draft picks - a figure that leads the CAA and ranks second nationally in the FCS. Also ranks third in wins among all active D-I (FCS and FBS) coaches.

He came to W&M in 1980 and inherited a program that had won six or more games in a season just four times in the previous 25 years. During that 25 years our other coach include both Marv Levy (yes of Pro-football fame) and the one and only Lou Holtz!

Here is a link to learn about him:

http://www.tribeathletics.com/staff.aspx?staff=88

I did but received little support : (

[kalm]

If Baldwin is such a great coach, why has his defenses been so bad the last half decade?

He probably is a great offensive mind but his defenses have been very poor. EWU had a pretty decent defense in '10 when they won the NC.

Fair point. Beau had been a head coach for exactly one year (CWU) when he took over in Cheney. My speculation is they recruited heavily on the offensive side the first three years and paid the price for it with talent deficiencies and lack of depth on D. Since then, we seem to be bringing in better athletes on defense, but that takes time to develop. We had a new defensive coordinator last year and were very young. With 9 starters back and greater depth on the d-line, hopefully we'll start seeing a bit more balance.

But again, how many coaches in FCS have taken their team to the semi's three times in the last decade, the quarters 4 times, won 4 conference championships, and a National Championship?

Perhaps if he'd done this at a program with greater funding sources, a large fanbase, superior facilities, and tradition you might not consider him great, but I think most people do...despite the defensive issues.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

Fair point. Beau had been a head coach for exactly one year (CWU) when he took over in Cheney. My speculation is they recruited heavily on the offensive side the first three years and paid the price for it with talent deficiencies and lack of depth on D. Since then, we seem to be bringing in better athletes on defense, but that takes time to develop. We had a new defensive coordinator last year and were very young. With 9 starters back and greater depth on the d-line, hopefully we'll start seeing a bit more balance.

But again, how many coaches in FCS have taken their team to the semi's three times in the last decade, the quarters 4 times, won 4 conference championships, and a National Championship?

Perhaps if he'd done this at a program with greater funding sources, a large fanbase, superior facilities, and tradition you might not consider him great, but I think most people do...despite the defensive issues.




That is what I have wondered these last few years. EWU puts up great offensive numbers but with such bad defenses the last few years, they have to outscore the opponent.

Seems like a nice guy in interviews.

[KPSUL]

We have many great coaches mentioned here and qualify as the "best".

it is disappointing to see that Jimmy Laycock of W&M not mentioned in this mix!

He has touched College football as our coach for 37 years playing in a stadium built during the depression at a school with high academic standards and taken us to 10 NCAA playoff games including two Semi final games. More importantly his players go onward to be successful College and Pro Football coaches (think Mike Tomlin) plus since 2009, W&M has produced six NFL Draft picks - a figure that leads the CAA and ranks second nationally in the FCS. Also ranks third in wins among all active D-I (FCS and FBS) coaches.

He came to W&M in 1980 and inherited a program that had won six or more games in a season just four times in the previous 25 years. During that 25 years our other coach include both Marv Levy (yes of Pro-football fame) and the one and only Lou Holtz!

Here is a link to learn about him:

http://www.tribeathletics.com/staff.aspx?staff=88

I made the following comment on Jimmye earlier in this thread:

"Laycock is at the honorable mention level at best . William and Mary is among the most marketable schools to perspective recruits. Elite institution, beautiful campus, quintessential college town. He has little problem attracting, and retaining, plenty of the best students athletes, evidenced by the number of early commits they recruit each year and the number of former W&M players in the NFL. Considering all the advantages and support he gets, I consider him a bit of an underachiever."

He's built and sustained a solid, consistent program, but I'm not sure he is one of the better game day coaches - except when playing UNH.

[ngineer]

Impossible to say and unable to quantify. I always like Bum Philips' definition of a good coach, "He'll take his'n and beat your'n; and then take your'n and beat his'n"." I like to look at who does the most with the least. Anyone can win with unlimited budgets, facilities and horses. As once said by a Mr. Wilson, "the measure of a coach is not how many wins out of so many games, but how many men out of so many boys."

[HailSzczur]

I haven't been there since 2008 so my perception might be a little skewed. Still, the press box and actual seating area seemed nice to me. I might go to the Lehigh-Villanova game next month. It depends if I go to their season opener instead.

With all this said, I think Talley is the best active coach in FCS when you consider building a program, maintaining it, overall success, graduating players and dealing with tougher than average admission standards.

Hasn't gotten any better since '08, hasn't gotten any worse. The press box is very nice. It's the crown jewel of the football facilities. At least until the west endzone building opens this year. State of the art locker room, offices, weight room, film room, meeting rooms, etc. The stadium itself, for the fans....meh. Old metal bleacher on old concrete steps. The sight lines are decent, but would be better without the track. 1 conecession stand in the East endzone with pretzels/hotdogs/pizza and then Luigi and Giovanni's tent. Only bathrooms are between the 2 locker rooms, and I think consists of 6 urinals, 3 toilets and 3 sinks. Tailgating is going to almost non existent, as Pike Lot is now becoming a parking garage to eventually replace the main lot. They only tailgating area left is behind the Stadium/Pavilion.
....He's right....

But Talley certainly deserves to be on a Top 10 list. Maybe not for Xs and Os, but for program building and program management he's done one hell of a job. Can't think of too many better than him.

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

Joe Mogila

[Gil Dobie]

I'd say Jim Kramer, NDSU Strength and conditioning coach.

[JayJ79]

Stig is a high integrity guy that runs a great program. I'd take Stig to run my program, but I'd take Spack to win a game, or if I had a player that needed a Spacking.

Spackle. Used to cover up holes, cracks, or other blemishes (in a player's criminal record).
(there is no way I'm the first to use that pun, but it just popped into my head and I don't recall seeing it elsewhere, so I'm gonna post it)

[Milktruck74]

While everyone thinks their coach is the best in the game....I think Russ Huesman was exactly what UTC needed when he came onboard. He took over a program that was in the tank for 3 decades, at a school/town that could care less about blue and gold as long as the orange are playing, and he developed a winning program and put butts in the stands...and did it the right way. I can think of many coaches that are "better" as far as Xs and Os, but I can not think of a better fit for UTC.

[MarkCCU]

IMO, no one has done more with less than Charleston Southern's Jamey Chadwell.
What a true statement. Chadwell has really turned CSU from a laughing stock into a contender. I hope they continue to improve off the successes of the past few seasons.

AND I HOPE THEY PUT SOME $$$ INTO THAT 'STADIUM' OF THEIRS! It's terrible. The team and the fans (home and visitor) deserve better.

- - - Updated - - -


Joe Mogila
Hahaha. He's inspirational. I'll give you that. But he's hardly the best. He's unique.

Or was that sarcasm? If so, then bravo.

[Matt]

I made the following comment on Jimmye earlier in this thread:

"Laycock is at the honorable mention level at best . William and Mary is among the most marketable schools to perspective recruits. Elite institution, beautiful campus, quintessential college town. He has little problem attracting, and retaining, plenty of the best students athletes, evidenced by the number of early commits they recruit each year and the number of former W&M players in the NFL. Considering all the advantages and support he gets, I consider him a bit of an underachiever."

He's built and sustained a solid, consistent program, but I'm not sure he is one of the better game day coaches - except when playing UNH.

I don't know if this is accurate. Everyone I know who went to W&M said it's pretty boring. Williamsburg is where retirees go to buy, like, wicker and candles. It's not a "college town" like, say, Charlottesville or Blacksburg. It's beautiful, but it's not an easy sell to an 18yo kid, especially when those kids are often also being pursued by us, or JMU (great party school), or ODU. Laycock is a top-10 FCS coach.

[CSU18]

No doubt in my mind it's Jamey Chadwell. Would love to see him stick around at CSU, but with another good season, he's more than likely out of there. I definitely think he's a guy we'll see on a much bigger stage at some point in the near future.

[TribeNiner]

I don't know if this is accurate. Everyone I know who went to W&M said it's pretty boring. Williamsburg is where retirees go to buy, like, wicker and candles. It's not a "college town" like, say, Charlottesville or Blacksburg. It's beautiful, but it's not an easy sell to an 18yo kid, especially when those kids are often also being pursued by us, or JMU (great party school), or ODU. Laycock is a top-10 FCS coach.

This is a bit of an out-dated perception that seems to persist, unfortunately. There are several new bars open next to campus (including a tequila library), 3 breweries, a couple of distilleries, etc. While Williamsburg doesn't have clubs, there are plenty of alcohol-based places for night-life. I'd say it's turned into quite the college town (which has put some strain on the relationship with the tourist/retiree side of things, admittedly).

I will say that I don't know of another public, academically rigorous institution that's as small as W&M and is trying to play high-level sports (especially without some age-old conference affiliation that benefits some private schools like Wake Forest). That's a lot to contend with.