Campus Insiders: Patriot League Preview

[DFW HOYA]

Quotable:
"Georgetown is the one team that’s undergoing a total overall..."

Note: Spell check is not grammar check.


http://campusinsiders.com/news/patriot-league-football-preview-2016-early-conference-lookahead-05-12-2016

[RichH2]

As good a preseason look as any, likely better than most. Lehigh did have the worst D. I note neither Gate nor the Rams are much better on D. My guess is the team that keeps its O scoring and comes up with a D will take title. Cross and Bison will be in the mix. Cross also needs a D and Bison an O. Pards a wild card. How will they rebound from a catastrophic.injury ridden year. D will be good. O??
Hoyas will have very good skills but inexperienced. Quality depth does not exist.

[Fordham]

As pumped up as I am about all that we have returning I find it absurd that anyone other than Gate would be picked for pre-season champs. Should be a good year for the PL, though.

[TheValleyRaider]

I'm optimistic, but we do play both Lehigh and Fordham on the road. That is 3 potential playoff teams, though, which is a pretty good place to be for the PL

[LUHawker]

Nice preview......right up until he mentioned Fordham having a NC shot. Of course, that is a bit of "media promotion" to add some sizzle to the piece, so I'm not being too critical.

[LUHawker]

I'm optimistic, but we do play both Lehigh and Fordham on the road. That is 3 potential playoff teams, though, which is a pretty good place to be for the PL

If the PL gets 3 in the playoffs, that would be a sure sign that the League is improving with schollies.

Here is my quick take at records:

Bucknell 5-6 or 6-5 Too hard to call, but they have a soft OOC
Colgate 7-3 Tough OOC and they've got LU and FU on the road
Fordham 8-3/9-2 FU has a challenging OOC schedule
GU 3-8/4-7 no big changes for G'Town - toss-up on the Lafayette game
HC 5-6/6-5 similar to last year, but they could surprise someone in the PL to lift their record
Lafayette - 4-7/3-8 with G'Town the toss-up. Better than last year, but how could it not be?
Lehigh - 9-2/8-3 Defense will determine if LU is at the top of the pack or battling for second

Depending upon how the W-Ls play out for Colgate, Fordham and Lehigh, there is a good chance that 3 teams in the 24-team playoff is possible.

[POD Knows]

If the PL gets 3 in the playoffs, that would be a sure sign that the League is improving with schollies.

Here is my quick take at records:

Bucknell 5-6 or 6-5 Too hard to call, but they have a soft OOC
Colgate 7-3 Tough OOC and they've got LU and FU on the road
Fordham 8-3/9-2 FU has a challenging OOC schedule
GU 3-8/4-7 no big changes for G'Town - toss-up on the Lafayette game
HC 5-6/6-5 similar to last year, but they could surprise someone in the PL to lift their record
Lafayette - 4-7/3-8 with G'Town the toss-up. Better than last year, but how could it not be?
Lehigh - 9-2/8-3 Defense will determine if LU is at the top of the pack or battling for second

Depending upon how the W-Ls play out for Colgate, Fordham and Lehigh, there is a good chance that 3 teams in the 24-team playoff is possible.

This might be the best reason yet to pair this playoff system back to fewer teams.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Getting 3 in the playoffs would probably require Fordham beating Navy, Colgate beating Syracuse, both finishing at least 8-3 and a third team going undefeated in PL play. More likely 2 teams make it, assuming the at-large team goes at least 8-3 and has a "quality" OOC win.

The fact that everyone is dismissing Holy Cross and Bucknell out-of-hand sort-of scares me. Holy Cross' Pete Pujals will be the preseason OPOY, not exactly the sort of guy you want to establish as an underdog, while Bucknell wasn't as far from the title last season as people seem to think.

[RichH2]

If the PL gets 3 in the playoffs, that would be a sure sign that the League is improving with schollies.

Here is my quick take at records:

Bucknell 5-6 or 6-5 Too hard to call, but they have a soft OOC
Colgate 7-3 Tough OOC and they've got LU and FU on the road
Fordham 8-3/9-2 FU has a challenging OOC schedule
GU 3-8/4-7 no big changes for G'Town - toss-up on the Lafayette game
HC 5-6/6-5 similar to last year, but they could surprise someone in the PL to lift their record
Lafayette - 4-7/3-8 with G'Town the toss-up. Better than last year, but how could it not be?
Lehigh - 9-2/8-3 Defense will determine if LU is at the top of the pack or battling for second

Depending upon how the W-Ls play out for Colgate, Fordham and Lehigh, there is a good chance that 3 teams in the 24-team playoff is possible.

Optimistic :) but possible. I certainly hope it comes out that way. Gate,Fordham and Lehigh will score lots of points. All need a D. Teams likely to have a D,Bucknell and Lafayette may or may not have an O.

[TheValleyRaider]

I ought to clarify, I don't think the PL is going to put 3 teams into the playoffs, but I do think we have 3 teams that can be considered serious at-large contenders.

For Colgate, at least, that would mean 8-2 with a win over one of Syracuse/UR and one of LU/FU. 7-3 probably only gets in if the 3 are Syracuse/UR/Yale (I will not entertain the prospect of losing to Cornell *gag*). With only 10 games, it's a tightrope.

On the other hand, it's still May, so why not all 3? Ya gotta believe...

[superman7515]

So wait, three teams from the PL are going undefeated and making the playoffs? How is that even possible? Because if you aren't the league champ, even 10-1 is too weak...

[LUHawker]

This might be the best reason yet to pair this playoff system back to fewer teams.

Ahh, said like a true "Knows" nothing. Pretty sure Colgate represented the PL well last year in the playoffs and they only squeaked by FU and LU to win the PL auto-bid. The League is on the rise, so summarily dismissive comments like POD's are behind the curve.

[RichH2]

Ahh, said like a true "Knows" nothing. Pretty sure Colgate represented the PL well last year in the playoffs and they only squeaked by FU and LU to win the PL auto-bid. The League is on the rise, so summarily dismissive comments like POD's are behind the curve.

Not surprising at all. PL usually dismissed out of hand by most "power"conference fans. We still have a way to go to argue against it. Recent years do not show consistent success in OOC and playoffs. Agree that PL looks to be turning the corner this year.

[Gangtackle11]

The league is on the rise, but I doubt you'll see 3 teams (out of 7) anytime soon.

A 6th place MVFC has a better chance than a 3rd place PL team today.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The league is on the rise, but I doubt you'll see 3 teams (out of 7) anytime soon.

A 6th place MVFC has a better chance than a 3rd place PL team today.

Depends on the resume, but broadly I agree with you.

Here's a hypothetical. Colgate goes 7-3, loses to Syracuse, (say) league champ Lehigh, and Ivy League champ Yale, but beats playoff-bound Richmond. In, or out?

Here's another: Fordham goes 8-3, 7 D-I wins. They lose to Colgate, (say) league champ Lehigh, and Ivy League champ Yale, but beats bowl-bound Navy. In, or out?

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Lehigh, Colgate and Holy Cross have quality FCS OOC games to back up their resume. Fordham's is solid but the D2 game and a likely unwinnable FBS game hurts.

This should be a fun a year. I think Lehigh has a very real chance to return to the playoffs. The league schedule sets ups quite nicely. They must find a defense though. Thankfully, as does Fordham, Colgate and Holy Cross.

[LUHawker]

No follower of the PL, myself included, thinks that 3 PL teams in the playoffs is a given, but it is not inconceivable that 3 could get in, particularly if the CAA or MVC don't put 5 in. I think Colgate's play in the post-season gave the league some credibility and helped offset what has been disappointing performances by Fordham in the playoffs.

[POD Knows]

Ahh, said like a true "Knows" nothing. Pretty sure Colgate represented the PL well last year in the playoffs and they only squeaked by FU and LU to win the PL auto-bid. The League is on the rise, so summarily dismissive comments like POD's are behind the curve.

The league has no were to go but up. :D

[PAllen]

Depends on the resume, but broadly I agree with you.

Here's a hypothetical. Colgate goes 8-3, loses to Syracuse, (say) league champ Lehigh, and Ivy League champ Yale, but beats playoff-bound Richmond. In, or out?

Here's another: Fordham goes 8-3, 7 D-I wins. They lose to Colgate, (say) league champ Lehigh, and Ivy League champ Yale, but beats bowl-bound Navy. In, or out?

Colgate, depends on what the rest of the country does, but probably not. Plus, don't they only have 10 games? Switch 'cuse and UR and they'd have a better case.

Fordham, maybe, but again, it would depend on how others in contention did.

[DFW HOYA]

The league has no were to go but up. :D

So does Georgetown, but it's not imminent.

[Go Green]

Ivy League champ Yale


I stopped reading your hypothetical at this point. :)

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Colgate, depends on what the rest of the country does, but probably not. Plus, don't they only have 10 games? Switch 'cuse and UR and they'd have a better case.

Fordham, maybe, but again, it would depend on how others in contention did.

You are right, they would only be 7-3. That makes a big, big difference, too.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I stopped reading your hypothetical at this point. :)

I mean, really, that would have meant Yale would have actually beat Harvard :)

[KPSUL]

The Patriot League will continue to trend upwards, something that was inevitable when the decided to offer football scholarships. It's shortsighted to predict otherwise. Anyone who understands Northeast colleges knows how much PL schools have to offer prospective student athletes. However, like most of you, with only 7 football teams in the league, I don't see a scenario where you get more than 2 playoff teams in 2016.

[RichH2]

The Patriot League will continue to trend upwards, something that was inevitable when the decided to offer football scholarships. It's shortsighted to predict otherwise. Anyone who understands Northeast colleges knows how much PL schools have to offer prospective student athletes. However, like most of you, with only 7 football teams in the league, I don't see a scenario where you get more than 2 playoff teams in 2016.
Well ,you may be right but not for that readon. How many teams did CAA have when they got 5? :)

[Gate83]

Played golf today with one of my best pals who's a Spider. We're going to the game together this Fall, he (in a fit of confidence) gave me 16 points over a year ago. We may not win the game, but I like my side of the bet!

[KPSUL]

Well ,you may be right but not for that readon. How many teams did CAA have when they got 5? :)

Way more than 7 ?

[RichH2]

Way more than 7 ?
You're right. :) Congrats. So CAA sent almost 1/2 of the conference. 3 out of 7. Gee, almost 1\2 the conference. Still not apt to happen. PL even with a full 60 schollies will never have the same depth of experienced talent. If these 3 favorites avoid numerous injuries and find decent defenses, they could be in the mix.
For me too many ifs to have realistic chance but hell its Spring when anything can happen :)

[BucBisonAtLarge]

Bucknell alternated "good" year, "bad" year recently. This is supposed to be the good year in the cycle, with Colgate, Lafayette and Fordham in Lewisburg.

[KillaBee]

Im predicting a 10 win season this year for The Leopards!!!!! Go PARDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The Hive is alive and thriving...... 10-0-1......

[RichH2]

Its threads like this where I miss Bogie. Most particularly after a Killabee post,smh.:)

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

It's almost Memorial Day! The dog days of summer are nearly upon which means the start of camp isn't far away!

Looking over the schedule I'd like to get to 4-5 games. Villanova, Fordham and Colgate seem a given. Likely Lafayette and Monmouth too. I've never been to Holy Cross. Perhaps this year? There's some good golf courses up there...

[RichH2]

Traveling man this season owl .Kudos :) Fordham and Nova top my wish list.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Traveling man this season owl .Kudos :) Fordham and Nova top my wish list.

I made it to JMU (Ugh, but awesome trip), Princeton (ugh), Colgate (double Ugh) and Lafayette (yay!) last year. I had to make up for 3 seasons where I saw 3 Lafayette games and a Colgate tilt in 2013.

I have high hopes for the year. A playoff bid, either by way of the auto-bid or at large, should be in play this year. There's no excuse or reason for the defense to suck this year.

[RichH2]

I made it to JMU (Ugh, but awesome trip), Princeton (ugh), Colgate (double Ugh) and Lafayette (yay!) last year. I had to make up for 3 seasons where I saw 3 Lafayette games and a Colgate tilt in 2013.

I have high hopes for the year. A playoff bid, either by way of the auto-bid or at large, should be in play this year. There's no excuse or reason for the defense to suck this year.

Agree IF 1. Mediocre D appears
2. Stay healthy.
I want to say D has to be better. Prior to the last 3 years, I said each time the D couldn't get any worse. Well it did. We should be better. 2nd year in system;quality depth at every position save perhaps S. Only postitive takeaway from ladt year's D was stretches even whole periods of good play. More than balanced out by whole games where D did little.to nothing right.
A half ass D and we are 8-3. :)

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Agree IF 1. Mediocre D appears
2. Stay healthy.
I want to say D has to be better. Prior to the last 3 years, I said each time the D couldn't get any worse. Well it did. We should be better. 2nd year in system;quality depth at every position save perhaps S. Only postitive takeaway from ladt year's D was stretches even whole periods of good play. More than balanced out by whole games where D did little.to nothing right.
A half ass D and we are 8-3. :)

The DL has gotten increasingly bigger the last 2 years which should finally pay off this fall. There's legit depth along the front 7 first the first time since Chagani was playing. This is the best group of LB's since 2011. The secondary remains a question mark. They seem to cover reasonably well but fail to make plays far too often. An improved pass rush would obviously be an excellent remedy.

The 2013 and 2014 defense suffered from a clear lack of talent and physical size/ability. Last year it seemed like the scheme was horribly simplistic despite slightly better personnel. This year it would seem like the pieces (size/better talent/and increased depth) are in place to be at least "ok". The question is can Botts get them to elevate their play? If he doesn't this could go down as one extremely disappointing season.

Lehigh needs to get payback on Fordham. Until the last 3 years Lehigh had owned the Rams. Given the Shafnisky injury and the way the second half in the Bronx played out that game has to be circled 10x over. Colgate is a game the team and coaching staff always gets up for. The Raiders have emerged as a legit second rival. Lafayette will almost certainly be headache. Holy Cross up there could define the season. If Lehigh gets through the league schedule with 1 loss it will likely be a very successful year.

[RichH2]

The DL has gotten increasingly bigger the last 2 years which should finally pay off this year. There's legit depth along the front 7 first the first time since Chagani was playing. I like the LB group for the first time since 2011. The secondary remains a question mark. They seem to cover reasonably well but fail to make plays far too often.

The 2013 and 2014 defense suffered from a clear lack of talent and physical size/ability. Last year it seemed like the scheme was horribly simplistic despite slightly better personnel. This year it would like the pieces (size/better talent/and increased depth) are in place to be at least decent. The question is can Botts get them to elevate their play? If he doesn't this could go down as one extremely disappointing season.

On point. Noticed from Caslow's comments post camp that a number of new blitz packages and sets. Think with more experience in the system the talent will perform. 2ndary was hammered last year. People tend to forget that we played a lot of frosh and sophs due to injuries. Coverage was better than in prior years but kids failed way to often to finish plays. August camp will be interesting. Expect stiff competition at every position.

[colorless raider]

Colgate's defense should be the strength of the team.

[Gangtackle11]

I'm interested to see Lehigh on 9/10.

Lots of enthusiasm from Lehigh faithful about this season while Nova fans are quiet with lots of question marks.

Should be a fun game as I think Villanova should be very good defensively again & Lehigh fans are touting a hearty offense.

[ngineer]

Lehigh, Colgate and Holy Cross have quality FCS OOC games to back up their resume. Fordham's is solid but the D2 game and a likely unwinnable FBS game hurts.

This should be a fun a year. I think Lehigh has a very real chance to return to the playoffs. The league schedule sets ups quite nicely. They must find a defense though. Thankfully, as does Fordham, Colgate and Holy Cross.

Yes, I agree FU's OOC hurts them as an at-large, so they need to win the League. LU's OOC is pretty good so if they can win all but one, not winning the League might not be fatal, especially if they beat Villanova at 'nova. Colgate only having a ten game season could be problematic. All three teams have great offenses. Whoever can get their defense's act together should win the League.

Holy Cross certainly has the top ranked QB in the League and will be dangerous. I just don't see them as being as complete a package on balance. If Bucknell ever learns how to score points they will be very good, but when was the last time the Bison had a 'scary' offense? Leotards are a huge unknown, so who knows. Hoyas with a lot of rebuilding. Had a competitive 2015, but too many question marks to see an improvement.

[ngineer]

I'm interested to see Lehigh on 9/10.

Lots of enthusiasm from Lehigh faithful about this season while Nova fans are quiet with lots of question marks.

Should be a fun game as I think Villanova should be very good defensively again & Lehigh fans are touting a hearty offense.

Really looking forward to this game. Lehigh travels well so there should be a good crowd at the Main Line.

[TheValleyRaider]

Lehigh needs to get payback on Fordham. Until the last 3 years Lehigh had owned the Rams. Given the Shafnisky injury and the way the second half in the Bronx played out that game has to be circled 10x over. Colgate is a game the team and coaching staff always gets up for. The Raiders have emerged as a legit second rival. Lafayette will almost certainly be headache. Holy Cross up there could define the season. If Lehigh gets through the league schedule with 1 loss it will likely be a very successful year.

I'd say we've had a pretty healthy rivalry for some years now. We'll never be Lafayette in your eyes, but the matchup certainly matters. I do hate that our matchup is so early this year.


If Bucknell ever learns how to score points they will be very good, but when was the last time the Bison had a 'scary' offense?

Couldn't we say Bucknell fans sometimes find their offense a bit terrifying? ;)

[ngineer]

I'd say we've had a pretty healthy rivalry for some years now. We'll never be Lafayette in your eyes, but the matchup certainly matters. I do hate that our matchup is so early this year.



Couldn't we say Bucknell fans sometimes find their offense a bit terrifying? ;)

I agree. That game has 'traditionally' been in November. Now, who ever loses that game will have to run the table the rest of the way.

[RichH2]

Would prefer Gate in Nov as usual. Regardless of date game is always a rivalry game. Goodman this year. Having Raiders and Rams at home more important this year.

[PAllen]

Bucknell, Colgate, Lafayette should end the regular season every year for Lehigh.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

I'd say we've had a pretty healthy rivalry for some years now. We'll never be Lafayette in your eyes, but the matchup certainly matters. I do hate that our matchup is so early this year.

IMO, it became a rivalry on November 6th 1999. Lehigh entered the game ranked #7 iirc and was riding a 20+ game regular season winning streak. The Mountain Hawks started to draw national attention. The Jean story had just been published in Sports Illustrated, the Philly media was following them and the hope was legitimately the national title. Colgate was ranked in the Top 20 and had been to the playoffs the previous 2 years. The then Red Raiders crushed Lehigh in 1997 in what turned out to be a hugely disappointing season. Lehigh got revenge in front 14k+ at Goodman in 1998 . That game really changed whole culture of the program. That was arguably the most program defining win for Lehigh in the PL era. Without that win there's no playoffs.

The 1999 game was easily the most heated non-Lafayette game I've ever seen Lehigh play. A lot of the key guys on both side were 3-4 year starters so they had butted heads numerous times. Both teams played with a cocky swagger. Vena was a talker and Lehigh had a lot of big time guys on defense at that time who weren't backing down. Lehigh jumped out early but Colgate's defense stiffened in the second half which allowed them to creep back in the game. I can still visually remember the go ahead 'Gate TD. By the end the talking was crazy. Vena was openly taunting and squirting water at the Lehigh offense. I'm sure some of that reaction was provoked during the course of the game by the Lehigh D. I don't believe the teams shook hands after the game. Ronald Jean was about as mad as I've ever seen a player after a loss. I'm pretty sure Biddle and Higgins didn't like one another.

I'm going to play in the Fred Dunlap Open in August. I might run into one or two Colgate's players from that era. As a Seven Oaks member am I now a traitor?

http://vault-cdn.si.com/SI_ISSUE_IMAGES/Sports%20Illustrated/1999/10/19991025/Sports_Illustrated_704050_19991025-121-250.jpg
Epic find! Complete with current Golf Channel host Rich Lerner (Temple Grad) doing the play-by-play! Watching this honestly makes me feel old! It's closing in on 20 years since this game was played!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbBubITimPU

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Bucknell, Colgate, Lafayette should end the regular season every year for Lehigh.

I like
First week of November - Colgate
Second Week - Georgetown
Third Week - Lafayette

Keep a winnable game between two emotional contests. There's a reason why the SEC teams schedule cupcakes before their season ending rivalry games. The one nice thing about having a tough league game earlier in the season is the "losing early is better than losing late" does hold water. A loss to Colgate in October will be more easily forgotten if they were to win out from that point.

Attending a game in Hamilton with leaves on the trees just doesn't feel right. I still, unfortunately remember, 1997. It was glorious autumn weather wise but it wasn't perfect "football weather". You need steel grey skies, barren trees with temps in the upper 30's....

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Part 2...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGt2_cpyMhY

[DFW HOYA]

I like
First week of November - Colgate
Second Week - Georgetown
Third Week - Lafayette

Keep a winnable game between two emotional contests. There's a reason why the SEC teams schedule cupcakes before their season ending rivalry games.

16 years in, and some of us are still waiting for that "emotional contest".

[PAllen]

Part 2...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGt2_cpyMhY

Ah, back when we were good.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

16 years in, and some of us are still waiting for that "emotional contest".

You had one in 2011. It just didn't end well for the Hoyas....

[DFW HOYA]

You had one in 2011. It just didn't end well for the Hoyas....

In fairness, that wasn't the kind of game which brought out good or bad from the alumni base, which is an ongoing problem with Georgetown and the PL. People at Georgetown aren't "for" or "against" PL football, they just don't care about the opponents. It would be like Lehigh wrestling joining the MAC. A match with Ball State, good or bad, doesn't draw much emotion.

A fair response would be that schools have to create their own rivalries, which is why the distance gap between Georgetown and the other schools is such a problem. A Lehigh student is a half hour from Easton, 100 miles to Fordham, 112 miles to Lewisburg, and 194 miles to the frozen tundra in Hamilton, and has a car to get there. By contrast, cars are prohibited for Georgetown students and chances are good they've never set foot on another PL campus, maybe not even American. A trip to Lehigh (assuming they would rent a car and would even want to do it) is an all day event: three and a half hours each way, three for the game, plus meals and gas. A round trip to a game at Holy Cross runs 16 hours of travel alone.

Which is why a more relevant conference opponent (Villanova, Loyola, AU) would be a plus--it could spark some interest from a student body that is quick to drop teams that aren't winning (the students disappeared at basketball games last year), and football has plenty of that lately. In the entire lives of today's incoming freshmen, the 2011 season is the only winning season since their first birthday, and since 3% of Georgetown students hail from DC, chances are prohibitive that none of them were watching those 2011 games... in 8th grade.

Yes, rivalry games are great; being from Texas, I see them first hand. UT and A&M don't even play and it's still a rivalry, plus a century of games with SMU-TCU, Baylor-Texas Tech, Rice-Houston, and so forth. Colgate and the PA schools have rivalries that go back generations, Fordham and HC will play at Yankee Stadium because those schools share a common legacy and they're four hours apart. It frustrates me why a better story can't be told about Georgetown and why this year's lack of depth suggests another 2-3 win season and a 0-fer in the 60-scholarship PL. Entering 2016, GU is 1-12 versus Colgate, 0-15 since 2001 versus Lehigh, and hasn't won at Fordham since 1974. You don't build memories around that.

[RichH2]

Well said DFW. But those games are indeed memories,just not good ones. Distance a factor but not as big a one as you think. Lehigh's 2nd biggest rival is Colgate,not a particularly nearby neighbor.
Over time rivalries are built on competition. Win more PL games, be relevant and interest will build. At least to a level comparable to other PL schools.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Well said DFW. But those games are indeed memories,just not good ones. Distance a factor but not as big a one as you think. Lehigh's 2nd biggest rival is Colgate,not a particularly nearby neighbor.
Over time rivalries are built on competition. Win more PL games, be relevant and interest will build. At least to a level comparable to other PL schools.

Georgetown hasn't taken the needed steps to make those things happen. If they had followed through with the original stadium plan when they entered the league the whole landscape of Hoya football could, perhaps would, be different. It's basically impossible to schedule H&H's with quality competition given the facility issue. I'm sure Villanova, Richmond, W&M, JMU etc would have been open to visiting DC starting in the mid 2000's if it would have provided the team, fans and family a quality experience.

The whole Georgetown is "far removed" is crazy. I made the trip down from Philly (as a college student) in 2004 and from Scranton in 2010. It was hardly a "grinding" all day affair from either location. If there's interest and you care then you'll make the trip.

Temple hardly has any football tradition yet a bunch of students made it down to Greenville, NC for a Thursday night game against East Carolina. Likewise to the Boca Bowl in Florida. Then again, these same students won't walk 2 blocks to see a solid basketball team so who knows....

[DFW HOYA]

It's basically impossible to schedule H&H's with quality competition given the facility issue. I'm sure Villanova, Richmond, W&M, JMU etc would have been open to visiting DC starting in the mid 2000's if it would have provided the team, fans and family a quality experience.

Andy Talley made it clear he would never schedule Georgetown, and never did. Richmond had a four year series with GU cancelled after two. W&M has shown no recent interest, and JMU wouldn't take a home and home in a facility that small, never mind the lack of parking for the JMU contingent.

A 5,000 seat configuration is status quo at best and consigns Georgetown to as steady diet of, sorry to say, fan-apathetic opponents.



The whole Georgetown is "far removed" is crazy. I made the trip down from Philly (as a college student) in 2004 and from Scranton in 2010. It was hardly a "grinding" all day affair from either location. If there's interest and you care then you'll make the trip.

That's assuming you can get there. A no-car policy locks out a lot of GU undergraduates from going north.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Andy Talley made it clear he would never schedule Georgetown, and never did. Richmond had a four year series with GU cancelled after two. W&M has shown no recent interest, and JMU wouldn't take a home and home in a facility that small, never mind the lack of parking for the JMU contingent.

A 5,000 seat configuration is status quo at best and consigns Georgetown to as steady diet of, sorry to say, fan-apathetic opponents.

That's assuming you can get there. A no-car policy locks out a lot of GU undergraduates from going north.

I'm sure JMU would have had no problem signing on for a home and home in 2002 or 2003 with the understanding that a new stadium was opening up in DC. Even if it was on the small side. Hell, their stadium wasn't anything great at that time. Neither was URI's, Northeastern's or UNH's. Talley might have changed his tune if Georgetown made more of an effort. He always looked down upon the PL. My guess is he really looks down upon Hoya football which in many respects is justifiable.

Georgetown just doesn't seem like a sports school. Hoops seems to be disappearing into the abyss without much resistance. I feel like JT3 would be out the door at a lot of schools given the dwindling attendance and lack of tournament success since 2007.

[DFW HOYA]

Georgetown just doesn't seem like a sports school. Hoops seems to be disappearing into the abyss without much resistance. I feel like JT3 would be out the door at a lot of schools given the dwindling attendance and lack of tournament success since 2007.

Not to pivot to basketball, but a combined record of 55-45 over the last three years doesn't sell tickets; yet, a guaranteed contract of $3.1 million a year doesn't push coaches out the door, either. People also forget Georgetown once was a top 10 lacrosse power. This season? 2-12.

[Go...gate]

Andy Talley made it clear he would never schedule Georgetown, and never did. Richmond had a four year series with GU cancelled after two. W&M has shown no recent interest, and JMU wouldn't take a home and home in a facility that small, never mind the lack of parking for the JMU contingent.

A 5,000 seat configuration is status quo at best and consigns Georgetown to as steady diet of, sorry to say, fan-apathetic opponents.


That's assuming you can get there. A no-car policy locks out a lot of GU undergraduates from going north.

Talley just really dislikes the PL. Yes, he will play Lehigh and Fordham to make it look good, but he hates to do anything which might legitimize our conference. That will not change until he is gone.

[Go...gate]

Not to pivot to basketball, but a combined record of 55-45 over the last three years doesn't sell tickets; yet, a guaranteed contract of $3.1 million a year doesn't push coaches out the door, either. People also forget Georgetown once was a top 10 lacrosse power. This season? 2-12.

Join the club. Colgate LAX crashed this year, too.

[RichH2]

To clarify history a bit. Talley made his comments about playing PL when we were still non schollie. His view simply no upside to beating us and a huge dowside to losing to us..
DFW I thought GU got money foI stadium upgrades? Recall there was a neighborhood issue with moving or expanding stadium. No plans to add seating?

[PAllen]

Andy Talley made it clear he would never schedule Georgetown, and never did. Richmond had a four year series with GU cancelled after two. W&M has shown no recent interest, and JMU wouldn't take a home and home in a facility that small, never mind the lack of parking for the JMU contingent.

A 5,000 seat configuration is status quo at best and consigns Georgetown to as steady diet of, sorry to say, fan-apathetic opponents.




That's assuming you can get there. A no-car policy locks out a lot of GU undergraduates from going north.

So to summarize: GU's administration has never supported the FB program at the level required to make it even modestly relevant on a regional basis. GU's student body will only support teams that are prime time nationally relevant. GU's administration has set up other rules that make it nearly impossible for those students to travel to support such a team even if they were at the level required for interest. Oh, and the rest of the PL is at 60 scholarships, so there is no hope for Hoya football success.

[Gangtackle11]

To clarify history a bit. Talley made his comments about playing PL when we were still non schollie. His view simply no upside to beating us and a huge dowside to losing to us..
DFW I thought GU got money foI stadium upgrades? Recall there was a neighborhood issue with moving or expanding stadium. No plans to add seating?

Exactly about Talley & his distain playing the then non-schollie PL. He played his non-scholly buddies from Franklin Field 1 too many times & probably cost them a playoff berth last season.

He's retiring after this season. We'll see where we go from there. New AD has a football background, but I doubt it will mean much other than CAA status quo.

I know it's easy to make the PL argument for Nova, but Id be surprised to see any move there in the upcoming years.

[RichH2]

Exactly about Talley & his distain playing the then non-schollie PL. He played his non-scholly buddies from Franklin Field 1 too many times & probably cost them a playoff berth last season.

He's retiring after this season. We'll see where we go from there. New AD has a football background, but I doubt it will mean much other than CAA status quo.

I know it's easy to make the PL argument for Nova, but Id be surprised to see any move there in the upcoming years.
PL is not a destination yet.Believe it will be in years to come. Schollies have raised the talent level. Good coaching,administration support and better OOC results are prerequisites also. Some schools have that ie Bucknell, Fordham, Lehigh and Colgate. Almost as important is developing more consistent meetings on the field. Competitive games will foster fan support. A possible scenario. Time will tell if it will ever happen :)

[Lehigh'98]

IMO, it became a rivalry on November 6th 1999. Lehigh entered the game ranked #7 iirc and was riding a 20+ game regular season winning streak. The Mountain Hawks started to draw national attention. The Jean story had just been published in Sports Illustrated, the Philly media was following them and the hope was legitimately the national title. Colgate was ranked in the Top 20 and had been to the playoffs the previous 2 years. The then Red Raiders crushed Lehigh in 1997 in what turned out to be a hugely disappointing season. Lehigh got revenge in front 14k+ at Goodman in 1998 . That game really changed whole culture of the program. That was arguably the most program defining win for Lehigh in the PL era. Without that win there's no playoffs.

The 1999 game was easily the most heated non-Lafayette game I've ever seen Lehigh play. A lot of the key guys on both side were 3-4 year starters so they had butted heads numerous times. Both teams played with a cocky swagger. Vena was a talker and Lehigh had a lot of big time guys on defense at that time who weren't backing down. Lehigh jumped out early but Colgate's defense stiffened in the second half which allowed them to creep back in the game. I can still visually remember the go ahead 'Gate TD. By the end the talking was crazy. Vena was openly taunting and squirting water at the Lehigh offense. I'm sure some of that reaction was provoked during the course of the game by the Lehigh D. I don't believe the teams shook hands after the game. Ronald Jean was about as mad as I've ever seen a player after a loss. I'm pretty sure Biddle and Higgins didn't like one another.

I'm going to play in the Fred Dunlap Open in August. I might run into one or two Colgate's players from that era. As a Seven Oaks member am I now a traitor?

http://vault-cdn.si.com/SI_ISSUE_IMAGES/Sports%20Illustrated/1999/10/19991025/Sports_Illustrated_704050_19991025-121-250.jpg
Epic find! Complete with current Golf Channel host Rich Lerner (Temple Grad) doing the play-by-play! Watching this honestly makes me feel old! It's closing in on 20 years since this game was played!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbBubITimPU

Great post Owl (I'm biased of course). You hit on how important that 1998 Colgate game was for the program. The emotion of the team for that game was off the charts. We were waiting for it all season long. Vena and Stambaugh were two of the most talented players the PL has had.

[Go Green]

[QUOTE=Go Lehigh TU owl;2342704]. It's basically impossible to schedule H&H's with quality competition given the facility issue.
QUOTE]

They haven't had a problem getting H&H's with the Ivy.

[Go Green]

A 5,000 seat configuration is status quo at best and consigns Georgetown to as steady diet of, sorry to say, fan-apathetic opponents.


.

Fan-apathetic opponents like Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Dartmouth, and Brown?

[Go Green]

Georgetown just doesn't seem like a sports school. Hoops seems to be disappearing into the abyss without much resistance. I feel like JT3 would be out the door at a lot of schools given the dwindling attendance and lack of tournament success since 2007.

Georgetown is almost done with a multi-million dollar basketball practice facility. For a long time, they've had the worst hoops buildings in the Big East other than Seton Hall. That will change in the very near future.

[LUHawker]

A 5,000 seat configuration is status quo at best and consigns Georgetown to as steady diet of, sorry to say, fan-apathetic opponents.


DFW - we're so sorry that we lowly PL folks don't create any "interest" for the high and mighty Georgetown students and fans. If misery loves company, you'll be happy to know that seeing Georgetown on the schedule generally doesn't get the PL fans fired up either.

You've been playing the PL-victim card for years now and it is tiresome. GU has supposed inherent advantages over its PL brethren and it has been argued that with a little commitment and effort by GU AND its fans, would elevate its standing. Those commitments have not been evident and it shows. It would be nice if GU decided to be an engaged member of the PL for football, but clearly it isn't interested. And please, please, please don't recycle that hackneyed line that somehow the PL maligned G'Town because it pivoted to a scholarship model - the world changes. Besides, its not as if GU was a juggernaut before schollies.

My apologies if I come across as surly, but the woe-is-Georgetown story line is directed at the wrong audience. This seems like a GU problem, not a PL one.

[RichH2]

[QUOTE=Go Lehigh TU owl;2342704]. It's basically impossible to schedule H&H's with quality competition given the facility issue.
QUOTE]

They haven't had a problem getting H&H's with the Ivy.

C'mon Grenn. A tad disingenuous. Uvies are flocking to Hoyas as they are in the NE and a pretty sure W

[Go Green]

[QUOTE=Go Green;2342722]

C'mon Grenn. A tad disingenuous. Uvies are flocking to Hoyas as they are in the NE and a pretty sure W

The Hoyas actually done fine against the weaker Ivy teams in recent years.

[RichH2]

[QUOTE=RichH2;2342731]

The Hoyas actually done fine against the weaker Ivy teams in recent years.

Hell of an endorsement :):)

[bison137]

Bucknell alternated "good" year, "bad" year recently. This is supposed to be the good year in the cycle, with Colgate, Lafayette and Fordham in Lewisburg.


With reasonably good health, this definitely should be the most talented Bucknell team since the 1997 team that went 10-1, including road wins at Harvard and Yale. One key is the status of All-PL RB CJ Williams, who missed the entire spring (shoulder and/or concussions).

[Lehigh'98]

I'm interested to see Lehigh on 9/10.

Lots of enthusiasm from Lehigh faithful about this season while Nova fans are quiet with lots of question marks.

Should be a fun game as I think Villanova should be very good defensively again & Lehigh fans are touting a hearty offense.

We have very positive fans. You guys will win by 2tds most likely. This group of players hasn't proven they can take down a CAA big just yet. Would be nice, but I'm not seeing it.

[DFW HOYA]

So to summarize: GU's administration has never supported the FB program at the level required to make it even modestly relevant on a regional basis.

Disagree. Georgetown certainly had supported it in the past (i.e, the 81 scholarship team prior to 1950) but there has not been sustained interest within the Virginia-Maryland-DC area to consistently support any teams below the I-A level. Towson averages 6,500 a game, Howard less than 3,500 at home. This, in a combined metro area of 9.3 million people. Add to the mix that three of the four largest universities in the area (George Mason, UDC, George Washington) have no intercollegiate teams at all. So here's the academic argument, and not the same argument if you live in Easton or Newark: How much should a school spend on a sport where regional interest in college football not named "Maryland" or "Navy" is traditionally low? Should Georgetown spend $5 million a year to get to the relevance of...Howard?

For Georgetown to really build football's base it needs to be thinking beyond the region. The PL is very much a regionally focused operation, so that's not likely in its current configuration.


GU's student body will only support teams that are prime time nationally relevant.

For the most part, true.



GU's administration has set up other rules that make it nearly impossible for those students to travel to support such a team even if they were at the level required for interest.

The administration did not set up rules, that's the DC government. By law, parking permits (on or off campus) are not allowed for students at Georgetown or George Washington.

[RichH2]

Pretty good point by point rebuttal DFW. Doesn'really answer the question tho. Popuation density when compared to interest in local college football may be a factor for Hoyas but not a particularly relevant one.Football is not a money making sport at any PL school .We are talking about relevance and competitiveness in the PL. PL a regional conference? Perhaps. The PL went to merit aid to be competitive on the national level.To keep up GU probably needs to spend 3.5 to 4.5 million . Is there a ROI for GU? Not a monetary one for any of us :). Does GU want a viable program in the PL? If so invest in program. Increase need grant aid.

[PAllen]

For Georgetown to really build football's base it needs to be thinking beyond the region. The PL is very much a regionally focused operation, so that's not likely in its current configuration.


The administration did not set up rules, that's the DC government. By law, parking permits (on or off campus) are not allowed for students at Georgetown or George Washington.

If the PL is too expensive and too regional, then join the Pioneer League. Your facilities and institutional commitment wouldn't even be in the top half of that league.

As far as DC parking regulations go, please. American and GW have found ways around them. If Georgetown cared, they could too. You keep trying to compare yourself to Maryland, Navy, or Syracuse, all while complaining about having to spend more than a D-III program. Sure, you play those guys in basketball and lacrosse, but even in those sports, their commitment far surpasses GU's. You are not an academic or athletic peer to any Ivy League school. You are not an athletic peer with any former big east school in anything but BBall. I'll cede your point that for a brief time in the middle of the 20th century, when football was cheap, your administration supported the program. However, since then, I think the track record is pretty clear. GU will not be competing against top 25 FBS schools or those that would spark the interest of large local support in any of our lifetimes. If that's what it would take to get GU to support their FB program at a D-I level, then so be it, but don't whine and complain that others do it and therefore make your program look pathetic. One home game and GU does that all on its own. GU could have a very successful regional FCS program with only a small increase in the support of the program. Unfortunately, as with most things at GU, if you can't call yourself the best in the world at something, you barely make an effort, and therefore, as a whole, the product is mediocre.

[LUHawker]

For Georgetown to really build football's base it needs to be thinking beyond the region. The PL is very much a regionally focused operation, so that's not likely in its current configuration.



Aren't nearly all the FCS conferences, except the Pioneer, regionally-focused?
Ivy: Northeast
CAA: Northeast/Mid-Atlantic
MVC: Midwest
Southern: Southeast
Big Sky: big sky country
etc.

Your comment implies that GU needs a nationally-focused conference. I'm sure the Pioneer would take Georgetown.

[Bill]

You are not an academic or athletic peer to any Ivy League school.

PA - I don't mean to steal any of DFW's thunder here...but I'm pretty sure the admissions stats would confirm that Georgetown is indeed an academic peer of the Ivy Group...

[Lehigh Football Nation]

G'town and Fordham geographically are very similar - city areas, limited area to expand, on-campus facilities. This is rapidly becoming on outlier in the college football world. "Campus facilities" increasingly means a rolling, suburban (or even rural) campus with a huge football stadium and acres of areas for RVs to tailgate. Both Fordham and G'Town don't have that.

In the golden era of Ram and Hoya football, they didn't play on campus, mostly - they played in places like Yankee Stadium, and had a hold over the entire city, where even people who never attended Fordham or G'Town would follow the team. That model no longer applies. Ram and Hoya football are a regional concern now.

I think things like the Fordham/Cross game in NYC are the way to go going forward. You would think with RFK, Nats stadium reasonably close to G'Town, that the Hoyas could set up a, say, G'town/Yale game in a nearby baseball stadium that would be a huge deal for the kids. Games at Maryland or Navy would be nice, but the truth is G'Town/Yale can be as big or better. It just takes some legwork.

[RichH2]

Perhaps GU can LFN if it actually wants to keep football. Hoyas' issues have been debated for years now,with little or no action by GU to act to clarify what its plan is for the future of Hoya football. Until GU decides I expect we will be revisiting this topic annuallly. A rather depressing realuzation. :) :)

[DFW HOYA]

Perhaps GU can LFN if it actually wants to keep football. Hoyas' issues have been debated for years now,with little or no action by GU to act to clarify what its plan is for the future of Hoya football. Until GU decides I expect we will be revisiting this topic annuallly. A rather depressing realuzation. :) :)

Don't mistake misdirection for inaction.

Yes, Georgetown can be its own worst enemy for a lot of football issues - much like the overall University, it's vastly underfunded relative to its peers and wears the jersey of the underdog. A perpetual underdog, of course, can become a lapdog, which is something to avoid in this level of college football, where attrition has weeded out the Sienas, St. Peter's and Northeasterns of the world. Clearly, Georgetown wants to keep football and has had numerous opportunities to give up the ship. They were there at the beginning of the Eastern non-scholarship wave and along with Marist, are the last men standing.

Georgetown has clarified its plan for the future--problem is, it's not the future of the other PL schools. Georgetown won't be offering scholarships because there's not much to be gained by doing so (i.e., a 6th place finish instead of 7th place is no bargain), won't be pursuing ranked I-AA opponents or I-A guarantee games, and won't be recruiting players capable of consistent playoff-level football. Its strategic plan is closer to Columbia than to Colgate.

My enduring frustration is that the only way to break this cycle of underperformance is in a overhaul of recruiting, admissions and aid, which is infeasible due to the PL's insistence of its arcane use of GPA and SAT's as a measure of capability to play sports. A full 28 of Georgetown's 29 sports have no such minimum GPA or SAT score for admission and yet continue to recruit solid men and women who perform and graduate, some at the very top academically and others not, yet the PL cannot trust a school to take a kid with a 1050 or a 2.5 because "it wouldn't look good"; yet, of course, it that same kid was applying to a PL school without football, they'd still be admittable.

I haven't got a clear view on exactly how this would be accomplished (yet), but both Georgetown and the league office need to engage in some dialogue and reach a deal if the PL wants truly Georgetown to get better. If they don't for whatever reason, they let it stay status quo and wonder why a Patriot League team is left to start a 160 lb. running back (which Georgetown will this year) and get clubbed by almost all teams outside the Pioneer League.

N.B. Repeating an earlier argument before this pops up yet again: Georgetown has no institutional interest in the Pioneer League, for three reasons: 1) no peer institutions are in that league; GU would have to drop 1-2 Ivy games to meet a nine game PFL schedule of schools with nothing in common, 2) the travel costs would be significant and largely unmet in the current budget, and 3) as the sole "need-only, no merit" school in that discussion, GU would be at a recruiting disadvantage vs. schools who can offer academic merit awards to students at large. My view is that, absent of some sort of earth-shaking affiliate deal with the Ivies, there are only two options: 1) PL, or 2) I-AA independent, although I think the NEC doesn't get enough discussion. Much like Army's woes in Conference USA, Georgetown may fare better outside a conference sandbox, but the institution still likes the PL structure.

[RichH2]

Well said. Do understand the dilemma. Dont agree that GU has clarified anything. Maintaining an unfeasible status quo isvnot a clarufication.
I do agree rhat current AI rules do not fit our membership.. The impetus for the AI was Fordham's re admission into PL for football. The perceived danger was that Rams could recruit players that no other PL team could even recruit..
Did not agree with it then . Dont now. There need not be a legue wide floor. If necessary perhaps a specific cap on low band recruits. Otherwise, admissions should be left to each school.

[Go...gate]

Don't mistake misdirection for inaction.

Yes, Georgetown can be its own worst enemy for a lot of football issues - much like the overall University, it's vastly underfunded relative to its peers and wears the jersey of the underdog. A perpetual underdog, of course, can become a lapdog, which is something to avoid in this level of college football, where attrition has weeded out the Sienas, St. Peter's and Northeasterns of the world. Clearly, Georgetown wants to keep football and has had numerous opportunities to give up the ship. They were there at the beginning of the Eastern non-scholarship wave and along with Marist, are the last men standing.

Georgetown has clarified its plan for the future--problem is, it's not the future of the other PL schools. Georgetown won't be offering scholarships because there's not much to be gained by doing so (i.e., a 6th place finish instead of 7th place is no bargain), won't be pursuing ranked I-AA opponents or I-A guarantee games, and won't be recruiting players capable of consistent playoff-level football. Its strategic plan is closer to Columbia than to Colgate.

My enduring frustration is that the only way to break this cycle of underperformance is in a overhaul of recruiting, admissions and aid, which is infeasible due to the PL's insistence of its arcane use of GPA and SAT's as a measure of capability to play sports. A full 28 of Georgetown's 29 sports have no such minimum GPA or SAT score for admission and yet continue to recruit solid men and women who perform and graduate, some at the very top academically and others not, yet the PL cannot trust a school to take a kid with a 1050 or a 2.5 because "it wouldn't look good"; yet, of course, it that same kid was applying to a PL school without football, they'd still be admittable.

I haven't got a clear view on exactly how this would be accomplished (yet), but both Georgetown and the league office need to engage in some dialogue and reach a deal if the PL wants truly Georgetown to get better. If they don't for whatever reason, they let it stay status quo and wonder why a Patriot League team is left to start a 160 lb. running back (which Georgetown will this year) and get clubbed by almost all teams outside the Pioneer League.

N.B. Repeating an earlier argument before this pops up yet again: Georgetown has no institutional interest in the Pioneer League, for three reasons: 1) no peer institutions are in that league; GU would have to drop 1-2 Ivy games to meet a nine game PFL schedule of schools with nothing in common, 2) the travel costs would be significant and largely unmet in the current budget, and 3) as the sole "need-only, no merit" school in that discussion, GU would be at a recruiting disadvantage vs. schools who can offer academic merit awards to students at large. My view is that, absent of some sort of earth-shaking affiliate deal with the Ivies, there are only two options: 1) PL, or 2) I-AA independent, although I think the NEC doesn't get enough discussion. Much like Army's woes in Conference USA, Georgetown may fare better outside a conference sandbox, but the institution still likes the PL structure.

????????????????

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

We have very positive fans. You guys will win by 2tds most likely. This group of players hasn't proven they can take down a CAA big just yet. Would be nice, but I'm not seeing it.

Today I'd say Villanova by 10-14 points. That could change depending on how each teams first game goes.

I feel like Lehigh will be very much "up" for this game as long as they beat Monmouth. Villanova's defense can be either really good or really mediocre. They faired really well against Fordham the last two years but Shafnisky brings an added element. The question will be can the Lehigh defense hold serve?

[Gangtackle11]

Today I'd say Villanova by 10-14 points. That could change depending on how each teams first game goes.

I feel like Lehigh will be very much "up" for this game as long as they beat Monmouth. Villanova's defense can be either really good or really mediocre. They faired really well against Fordham the last two years but Shafnisky brings an added element. The question will be can the Lehigh defense hold serve?

I think you'll learn very little from our 1st game @ Pitt unless the team sustains a bunch of injuries.

Villanova's biggest question marks are not on defense in 2016.

Villanova's strength last season was its defense as they ranked 2nd in the CAA & 16th overall in the FCS. Granted they lose their All-American MLB Don Cherry ( now with Chicago Bears), but 8 of 11 starters are back including 4 All-CAA performers (DE Kpassagnon, OLB Calitro, CBs Reeves/Ceneus) & the team has some highly touted players in the wings.

Interestingly, Lehigh has reportedly moved to the same 3-3-5 scheme that Villanova plays.

I know Lehigh fans tout a high octane offense and I'm sure they will be a test for Nova's defense, but I don't see a shootout on the Mainline. It will favor the Mountain Hawks if it is.

[RichH2]

Little doubt that Nova should be a 14-17 pt favorite. IMO their Pitt game is a plus for them absent a lot of injuries. Nova will be at a much higher game speed initially than LU. We have to adjust quickly to stay competitive. Will we have a D? The $64 question. I hope for the best. Regardless, a game I want to be at.

[PAllen]

????????????????

He means declare yourself elite, then lose every competition you're a part of.

[RichH2]

:) GU is an academic elite. Practically the PL AI should not an impact on football recruiting given their admission standards. Of course,if GU wishes to apply its admit standards for Bball players there could be issues :)

[DFW HOYA]

:) GU is an academic elite. Practically the PL AI should not an impact on football recruiting given their admission standards. Of course,if GU wishes to apply its admit standards for Bball players there could be issues :)

No one here seems to be too concerned about those same "admit standards for Bball players" available in Georgetown lacrosse, swimming, golf, et al. But recruit a kid below a standard deviation in football and it's the road to perdition.

[RichH2]

No one here seems to be too concerned about those same "admit standards for Bball players" available in Georgetown lacrosse, swimming, golf, et al. But recruit a kid below a standard deviation in football and it's the road to perdition.

Dont disagree DFW. AI serves little actual purpose to contain Fordham in football. In other PL sports,the addition of Loyola and BU does raise AI issues not relevant here.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

I think you'll learn very little from our 1st game @ Pitt unless the team sustains a bunch of injuries.

Villanova's biggest question marks are not on defense in 2016.

Villanova's strength last season was its defense as they ranked 2nd in the CAA & 16th overall in the FCS. Granted they lose their All-American MLB Don Cherry ( now with Chicago Bears), but 8 of 11 starters are back including 4 All-CAA performers (DE Kpassagnon, OLB Calitro, CBs Reeves/Ceneus) & the team has some highly touted players in the wings.

Interestingly, Lehigh has reportedly moved to the same 3-3-5 scheme that Villanova plays.

I know Lehigh fans tout a high octane offense and I'm sure they will be a test for Nova's defense, but I don't see a shootout on the Mainline. It will favor the Mountain Hawks if it is.

Villanova did an excellent job shutting down Fordham the last two years. In general, Talley and the Wildcats have dominated the PL in their encounters. With that said, when good, Lehigh has imo, been the toughest out from the PL. This year has the potential to be the type of team that take can down a top tier CAA squad. Or at least push them to the brink like like the Mountain Hawks did to UNH in 2011. That loss I think helped them against Towson in the playoffs.

Entering the season this feels like the most even the teams have been since 2006. Villanova was clearly much better heading into 2008, 2009 and 2010.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Little doubt that Nova should be a 14-17 pt favorite. IMO their Pitt game is a plus for them absent a lot of injuries. Nova will be at a much higher game speed initially than LU. We have to adjust quickly to stay competitive. Will we have a D? The $64 question. I hope for the best. Regardless, a game I want to be at.

Monmouth will not be a walk in the park. A full scholarship decent Big South team is by no means a cupcake opener. I think the Beach Hawks will have Lehigh well prepared to face Villanova the following week.

[RichH2]

We have no cupcakes OOC this year owl. MU will have us better prepared for Nova. Gams speed for a decent FBS is overall higher than that of a decent FCS squad. Odds are coming off Pitt Nova will have a slightly higher game speed than we will after MU.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

We have no cupcakes OOC this year owl. MU will have us better prepared for Nova. Gams speed for a decent FBS is overall higher than that of a decent FCS squad. Odds are coming off Pitt Nova will have a slightly higher game speed than we will after MU.

Lehigh's OOC schedule is sneaky hard. Similar to 2014 if things don't get off to good start it could get ugly in a hurry.

I'm not sure how great of a first game Pitt is for Villanova. At it's core it's nothing more than a money game. If Pitt is pretty good this year they likely win this game rather easily. But, if Villanova wins or it goes down to the wire then I'll be very much concerned. IMO, Monmouth is much better "barometer game" since they're a peer.

[RichH2]

And Pitt may have Conner back this year.

[PAllen]

No one here seems to be too concerned about those same "admit standards for Bball players" available in Georgetown lacrosse, swimming, golf, et al. But recruit a kid below a standard deviation in football and it's the road to perdition.

You don't play lacrosse, swimming, or golf in the PL. Georgetown's basketball model is exactly why some form of AI needs to be in place. The current AI model doesn't work however. I'd be much more in favor of a league floor with only x number of exceptions for taking folks below it. Of course, with our more recent additions, I'm not sure just how low that floor would have to be.

[Sader87]

I still contend that one of GTown's biggest hurdles to "football acceptance" is that it wasn't a part of campus life from 1950-2000....you really have two or three generations of alumni who couldn't care less about football.

Contrast that to Holy Cross, where football mattered until we went "non-scholarship" in the mid/late 1980s....we (Holy Cross) lost a generation or so but I think there are still a fair amount of alumni still alive who still care....we're getting oldah by the day though xdrunkyx

[RichH2]

No doubt that Hoya's lost 50 yrs of student and alumni interest in football. Losing teams will do little to build a base of alumni interest.4 yrs is a generation in college. Put a winning team on the field for most of those 4 years and you have the start of an alumni base.
87 Cross joining the PL not really comparable to Hoya history.True you may have lost some older alumni stuck on past glories. Dont think you lost the interest of new students. Cross had a very successful run for those transition years.

[DFW HOYA]

Georgetown's basketball model is exactly why some form of AI needs to be in place.

You're on a slippery slope there. Georgetown's basketball "model" isn't any different from Villanova, isn't it? When it comes to recruiting, how does it differ from Fordham, or do you also maintain that "Fordham's basketball model is exactly why some form of AI needs to be in place"?

If your problem is the NCAA clearinghouse, or a belief that players below one standard deviation are not fit for admission, then there are 333 of 351 Division I teams that don't meet your criteria. Funny, nobody says that "Duke's basketball model" is a problem, do they?

[van]

You're on a slippery slope there. Georgetown's basketball "model" isn't any different from Villanova, isn't it? When it comes to recruiting, how does it differ from Fordham, or do you also maintain that "Fordham's basketball model is exactly why some form of AI needs to be in place"?

If your problem is the NCAA clearinghouse, or a belief that players below one standard deviation are not fit for admission, then there are 333 of 351 Division I teams that don't meet your criteria. Funny, nobody says that "Duke's basketball model" is a problem, do they?

Duke moving to FCS?

[PAllen]

Duke didn't admit Iverson and any other host of players who couldn't spell their first names. So yeah, I'm fine with some academic standards beyond the minimum required by FSU. If Georgetown can't recruit above a floor that would allow the majority of Loyola and American students, then you need to highly question your "elite" status.

[Go...gate]

Duke didn't admit Iverson and any other host of players who couldn't spell their first names. So yeah, I'm fine with some academic standards beyond the minimum required by FSU. If Georgetown can't recruit above a floor that would allow the majority of Loyola and American students, then you need to highly question your "elite" status.

You might want to take another look at American, which is increasingly more selective and has a much stronger academic profile than Loyola.

[DFW HOYA]

Duke didn't admit Iverson and any other host of players who couldn't spell their first names. So yeah, I'm fine with some academic standards beyond the minimum required by FSU. If Georgetown can't recruit above a floor that would allow the majority of Loyola and American students, then you need to highly question your "elite" status.

Actually, Duke recruited Allen Iverson. Tommy Amaker was the recruiter leading that effort. And so did Notre Dame, which was Iverson's actual first choice, as he was considered a better football prospect than a basketball one. But that was 22 years ago, and wholly irrelevant to this thread.

We can argue about what Duke or Georgetown or Villanova does in basketball, but that's not the discussion. If you have a personal prejudice against Georgetown basketball, that's your problem. The issue raised earlier was that the academic index, as currently constructed, is a competitive firewall for Georgetown to ever be a consistent PL football contender because the gap between recruitable vs admittable players is a larger one than any other PL program, regardless of losing ways, lack of atmosphere, or facilities. Georgetown loses on banding and it loses on need (a full ride wins every time).

Sgarlata's task then becomes finding 20 full-need Division I-level prospects every year with a 1300 SAT or greater that already passed up multiple PL scholarship offers, passed on all the Ivies, and passed up recruited walk-on offers at a Big 10 or ACC school so they can study in Washington and play before 2,000 people on a Saturday at Multi-Sport Field. That, and not be left with five QB's and five kickers while doing so.

[van]

Actually, Duke recruited Allen Iverson. Tommy Amaker was the recruiter leading that effort. And so did Notre Dame, which was Iverson's actual first choice, as he was considered a better football prospect than a basketball one. But that was 22 years ago, and wholly irrelevant to this thread.

We can argue about what Duke or Georgetown or Villanova does in basketball, but that's not the discussion. If you have a personal prejudice against Georgetown basketball, that's your problem. The issue raised earlier was that the academic index, as currently constructed, is a competitive firewall for Georgetown to ever be a consistent PL football contender because the gap between recruitable vs admittable players is a larger one than any other PL program, regardless of losing ways, lack of atmosphere, or facilities. Georgetown loses on banding and it loses on need (a full ride wins every time).

Sgarlata's task then becomes finding 20 full-need Division I-level prospects every year with a 1300 SAT or greater that already passed up multiple PL scholarship offers, passed on all the Ivies, and passed up recruited walk-on offers at a Big 10 or ACC school so they can study in Washington and play before 2,000 people on a Saturday at Multi-Sport Field. That, and not be left with five QB's and five kickers while doing so.

surely they would pass on the Ivies as Hoyas are far superior to any Ivy

[DFW HOYA]

surely they would pass on the Ivies as Hoyas are far superior to any Ivy

The results suggest otherwise.

[Go...gate]

Actually, Duke recruited Allen Iverson. Tommy Amaker was the recruiter leading that effort. And so did Notre Dame, which was Iverson's actual first choice, as he was considered a better football prospect than a basketball one. But that was 22 years ago, and wholly irrelevant to this thread.

We can argue about what Duke or Georgetown or Villanova does in basketball, but that's not the discussion. If you have a personal prejudice against Georgetown basketball, that's your problem. The issue raised earlier was that the academic index, as currently constructed, is a competitive firewall for Georgetown to ever be a consistent PL football contender because the gap between recruitable vs admittable players is a larger one than any other PL program, regardless of losing ways, lack of atmosphere, or facilities. Georgetown loses on banding and it loses on need (a full ride wins every time).

Sgarlata's task then becomes finding 20 full-need Division I-level prospects every year with a 1300 SAT or greater that already passed up multiple PL scholarship offers, passed on all the Ivies, and passed up recruited walk-on offers at a Big 10 or ACC school so they can study in Washington and play before 2,000 people on a Saturday at Multi-Sport Field. That, and not be left with five QB's and five kickers while doing so.

Progress on the Multi-Sport Field would be a good step. The other issues involve a re-thinking of how much commitment Georgetown truly has - or wants to have - to Division I football.

[RichH2]

Chatting about Hoya Bball rather misses the point being made. Up to Hoyas to decide who to recruit and admit in sports other than football. The perceived risk for the PL is having let in schools with liwer academic standards,they would have an unfair recruiting advantage over the othe PL schools. That is on the PL not the schools we asked to join us.Admission should be left to each school .
No banding. If some protection is deemed necessary limit the # of recruits that can be brought in under a set number.
Given GU's admission standards dont see how they will have any adverse impact.

[Go...gate]

I just wish GU could figure out a way to finish more of the MSF and either give out some scholarships or "equivalencies". I want them in the "Iron Seven" league and I want them to do well. For all the talk about expansion, the schools already playing PL football possess a lot of potential.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

1. G'town basketball is irrelevant to PL football.
2. The bands aren't going away. In fact, I feel they are important in terms of having the Ivy League as PL opponents.
3. Ask Harvard is the banding system hurts them. It clearly doesn't, which makes it odd that DFW keeps harping on the AI bands as the problem.
4. It's not so much AI bands are the problem for G'Town as it is AI bands plus need-based aid. You could say that what is holding G'Town back in this arena more is the fact that Harvard basically scholarships everyone making less than six figures that can get through admissions. If G'Town had the same version of Harvard's policy, their football team would improve.

[RichH2]

I just wish GU could figure out a way to finish more of the MSF and either give out some scholarships or "equivalencies". I want them in the "Iron Seven" league and I want them to do well. For all the talk about expansion, the schools already playing PL football possess a lot of potential.

Well said. Expansion must be a long range qoal. For the present,PL has to concentrate on improving itself. I also want Hoyas to be a part of that process. AI banding certainly a factor which PL should address to even the playfield somewhat.It is up to GU to address their other obstacles.

[DFW HOYA]

1. G'town basketball is irrelevant to PL football.
2. The bands aren't going away. In fact, I feel they are important in terms of having the Ivy League as PL opponents.
3. Ask Harvard is the banding system hurts them. It clearly doesn't, which makes it odd that DFW keeps harping on the AI bands as the problem.
4. It's not so much AI bands are the problem for G'Town as it is AI bands plus need-based aid. You could say that what is holding G'Town back in this arena more is the fact that Harvard basically scholarships everyone making less than six figures that can get through admissions. If G'Town had the same version of Harvard's policy, their football team would improve.

Good points all. A few comments:

1. My problem with the AI is that it's a flawed approach to limiting athletics and an unnecessary check on established programs which are not going to set compliance departments on fire with their recruiting approaches to begin with. Why do these schools not enforce an AI for aspiring student musicians, journalists, or other extracurriculars?

2. It would be great if Georgetown (or others) could match the generosity of Ivy financial aid policy but it's not financially possible. Georgetown spends over $100 million a year on financial aid with an average award of $36,878--which means an family must still cover, on average, $24K a year. At Harvard, no one with a family income below $65K even pays tuition, and for a family at $150K, tuition is capped at $15K. If the choices are a) $0 tuition to play Ivy football, b) $0 tuition with a scholarship at 225 different Div. I schools or c) $24K to play football at Georgetown, the pool of prospects capable of consistently competing for the playoffs disappears.

In the end, it's supply and demand. Not enough talented and AI-admittable prospects drives less demand and a less competitive outcome.

[Go Green]

My problem with the AI is that it's a flawed approach to limiting athletics and an unnecessary check on established programs which are not going to set compliance departments on fire with their recruiting approaches to begin with. Why do these schools not enforce an AI for aspiring student musicians, journalists, or other extracurriculars?



Probably because there is no history of abusing admissions among those groups. The Ivy's AI was enacted in the early 1980s in response to perceived admissions abuses among certain Ivy athletic teams (to the point, Penn basketball and Cornell hockey).

Funny thing was that it was Harvard leading the charge for AI banding back then. Some of Harvard's recent success in men's basketball (and questionable admissions tactics) have led to charges of hypocrisy in some quarters....

[RichH2]

Ah, got it now. Your issue is not with the AI but with the fact that it applies only to athletes. Dont really disagree. I just dont like the AI concept at all. It may be that GU could have a prospect who slots as a low band for GU but not for other PL schools. LFN has the apt solution. Use tha Harvard system. Money may not cure all but more funding will even the field for GU. Up to GU to decide to support football or not.

[Son of Eli]

[QUOTE=RichH2;2342731]

The Hoyas actually done fine against the weaker Ivy teams in recent years.



Not sure what their record is against the weaker Ivy teams but I know that Georgetown is 0-6 against Yale. I have no interest in Yale scheduling them again unless they at least build a respectable stadium that can seat a minimum of 10,000 fans. Not worth the trip otherwise.

[LUHawker]

[QUOTE=Go Green;2342744]



Not sure what their record is against the weaker Ivy teams but I know that Georgetown is 0-6 against Yale. I have no interest in Yale scheduling them again unless they at least build a respectable stadium that can seat a minimum of 10,000 fans. Not worth the trip otherwise.

I live in the DC area and look forward to seeing Lehigh play the Hoyas from a social and tailgating aspect, but have to admit that I've also foregone a game there because of the lack of game appeal - both competitiveness and in-seat atmosphere.

I think GU's issues run deep and don't seem like they are headed in any direction that suggests near-term improvement.

[DFW HOYA]

I live in the DC area and look forward to seeing Lehigh play the Hoyas from a social and tailgating aspect, but have to admit that I've also foregone a game there because of the lack of game appeal - both competitiveness and in-seat atmosphere.

No argument here--it's one of the worst places to watch a college game; and yet, a considerable step up from their former field.




I think GU's issues run deep and don't seem like they are headed in any direction that suggests near-term improvement.

Actually, it's quite shallow--after 16 years, no one at GU has come up with a compelling reason to invest in the Patriot League.

[bulldog10jw]

I mean, really, that would have meant Yale would have actually beat Harvard :)

2006 was only a decade ago. xpeacex

[LUHawker]

Actually, it's quite shallow--after 16 years, no one at GU has come up with a compelling reason to invest in the Patriot League.

You're a joy to behold, DFW. At every turn, you point the finger at the Patriot League and not GU. Somehow you think that everyone else should roll out some sort of golden path to make it worth your while. G'Town could have a very nice home in the PL with good peer institutions and potentially budding rivalries, but the University does not see fit to make the effort to do so. The AI restriction is a legitimate beef, but perhaps if GU had made some effort to address MSF over the last 10 years and even offered a limited number of scholarships, it could have - and still could - change the trajectory. Instead, what we hear from you incessantly is "woe us" and that the PL has somehow made it its mission to suppress GU. It's all a bit much to take.

[DFW HOYA]

You're a joy to behold, DFW. At every turn, you point the finger at the Patriot League and not GU. Somehow you think that everyone else should roll out some sort of golden path to make it worth your while. G'Town could have a very nice home in the PL with good peer institutions and potentially budding rivalries, but the University does not see fit to make the effort to do so. The AI restriction is a legitimate beef, but perhaps if GU had made some effort to address MSF over the last 10 years and even offered a limited number of scholarships, it could have - and still could - change the trajectory. Instead, what we hear from you incessantly is "woe us" and that the PL has somehow made it its mission to suppress GU. It's all a bit much to take.

Pay closer attention--that's not a swipe at the PL, it's a nod that some at Georgetown can't think beyond the peach baskets when it comes to building out a comprehensive major D-I program.

As to the "limited number of scholarships", let's face facts: 5 or 10 scholarships doesn't change this situation. Nor does 20. I asked this before and, within the other PL schools, the feeling out there is that the only number that realistically changes the equation for Georgetown approaches 60.

[bgsmitty43]

I would disagree about Georgetown football. I think Rob Sgarlata's enthusiasm and Hoya background make him the right man for the job. With the $50 million dollar donation to renovate the field, I think we will see some positive changes to the looks and comfort of the field. I'm not sure how much more seating there will be if any. It seems that for a non-scholarship program, GU has had a couple of stellar recruiting classes. I know Ivy League fans travel well as the Dartmouth fans completely filled the visitor stands at GU last year. I think over the next two years, watching a Hoya football game will become more enjoyable and festive. I know I'm an optimist, but I think in a year or two, GU could contend in the top half of the PL. Go ahead, call me insane!

[bulldog10jw]

Go ahead, call me insane!

For some strange reason, that ^ reminded me of

this


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jc-Mhynh_pg

[Go Green]

[QUOTE=Go Green;2342744]

Not sure what their record is against the weaker Ivy teams.

In recent years, Georgetown has beaten Columbia, Princeton, and Brown. Among those three, only Brown did better than 2-8 the year they lost to Georgetown.

[Son of Eli]

No argument here--it's one of the worst places to watch a college game; and yet, a considerable step up from their former field.




Actually, it's quite shallow--after 16 years, no one at GU has come up with a compelling reason to invest in the Patriot League.


Is Georgetown definately building a new football stadium? If so when will it be completed and what is the planned seating capacity? If they played two Ivy League schools a year at home I think they could sell out a 10,000 seat stadium for both games. A road trip to a nice new stadium in Washington DC would be fun. Lots of Ivy alumni in the DC area too.

[bgsmitty43]

Georgetown received a $50 million donation last year to renovate the football complex. I haven't seen any plans, but anticipate the work taking place over the next 2 years. Not sure if the seating size will enlarge. It will be a classier place to watch a football game. I was really impressed with Dartmouth's fan base at Georgetown last year. I'm sure Princeton's will compare this year. Hoping the athletic department moves quickly on this.

[KillaBee]

GOOOOOOOOO LEOPARDS!!!!!!!!

[Colgate98]

I'm optimistic, but we do play both Lehigh and Fordham on the road. That is 3 potential playoff teams, though, which is a pretty good place to be for the PL

I agree tough road schedule.

[RichH2]

Going to be an interesting year. Novclearcut favorite.

[DFW HOYA]

1. Lehigh or Colgate
3. Fordham or Holy Cross
5. Bucknell or Lafayette
7. Georgetown

[Fordham]

Going to be an interesting year. Novclearcut favorite.

I disagree. Colgate is the clear favorite. They have a TON returning from a team that not only won it last year but that went as deep into the FCS playoffs as any PL team has in more than a decade. Amazing run and a ton coming back. They are the clear and consensus favorites and earned the right to be called as such. We will be tough and hopefully are nipping at their heels with all we have coming back but we do not deserve to be called pre-season favorites. Lehigh will be very tough and in the mix imo but they have even less claim to the PLpre-season favorite claim.

None of this means that Colgate will waltz through and win it as we'll have to see how the season plays out. Speaking just strictly of their earning the mantle of pre-season favorites to win it. Hands down it's gate. Give them their due.

[LUHawker]

I disagree. Colgate is the clear favorite. They have a TON returning from a team that not only won it last year but that went as deep into the FCS playoffs as any PL team has in more than a decade. Amazing run and a ton coming back. They are the clear and consensus favorites and earned the right to be called as such. We will be tough and hopefully are nipping at their heels with all we have coming back but we do not deserve to be called pre-season favorites. Lehigh will be very tough and in the mix imo but they have even less claim to the PLpre-season favorite claim.

None of this means that Colgate will waltz through and win it as we'll have to see how the season plays out. Speaking just strictly of their earning the mantle of pre-season favorites to win it. Hands down it's gate. Give them their due.

I think it is a 3-horse race: Colgate, Fordham and Lehigh. Colgate squeaked by FU and LU, while LU had Fordham on the ropes until the QB went down and was replaced by the freshman in his first action. Whichever team finds a defense wins it.

[Fordham]

I think it is a 3-horse race: Colgate, Fordham and Lehigh. Colgate squeaked by FU and LU, while LU had Fordham on the ropes until the QB went down and was replaced by the freshman in his first action. Whichever team finds a defense wins it.
I think that's fine and don't disagree that those are the top 3. I'm sure Bucknell and Lafayette fans have reasons why they'll challenge too. That said, if you're putting out a publication where you give the pre-season rankings, you simply have to put Colgate in as the clear #1 based on how they did last year and all that they have returning. Anything else is just pulling it out of your tail or too much homerism imo

[RichH2]

Dont think any of us disagree Fordham as to preseason chalk. The reality is as you say a toss up. Not a single team this year is rock solid on both sides of the ball. We all need to hope we are the one that fixes them the best.

[TheValleyRaider]

Don't both Lehigh and Fordham return quite a bit? The biggest question mark is Fordham's new coach, if he can keep the good times going in the Bronx. That being said, the Rams should be talented enough to be in the hunt again. Given we won both games last year by the skin of our teeth at home, I think you'd be plenty justified in picking someone else.

The schedule advantage goes to Lehigh, I think, seeing as the Hawks play both games at home (unlike Colgate) and don't have to play the two back-to-back (like Fordham)

[RichH2]

True Raider .Lehigh returns whole O less TE and an OL. With the injuries we return a lot of starters and lettermen. D was atrocious. A better one seems likely but how much. Rams lost very little. Also an atrocious D. But a superb O and Edmunds. LU does have a better PL schedule. All true. Bucknell may find an O and screw up all the forecasts :)
Gonna be a fun year.

[Go...gate]

I'm thinking Fordham will be very tough again, and Lehigh will be able to control the ball and score in bunches. Colgate is going to have a difficult time repeating.

[bgsmitty43]

I think edge goes to Colgate. I'm a Georgetown fan, and the Hoyas lost to all three teams by 7 points or less last season. We had the ball against Colgate at the end of the game to win and couldn't get it done. Of the three, I like Colgate's defense the best. I think defensive captain Kyle Diener(?) is an outstanding LB and defensive leader. Defense wins championships. Lehigh has a good LB (can't remember name, someone help me), but Colgate more depth.

[Gangtackle11]

I think edge goes to Colgate. I'm a Georgetown fan, and the Hoyas lost to all three teams by 7 points or less last season. We had the ball against Colgate at the end of the game to win and couldn't get it done. Of the three, I like Colgate's defense the best. I think defensive captain Kyle Diener(?) is an outstanding LB and defensive leader. Defense wins championships. Lehigh has a good LB (can't remember name, someone help me), but Colgate more depth.

Colton Caslow

[Andy]

Colgate with stud DL Steffen and DB Bridgeforth back for 5th years has to be top pick. I would have FU as top threat to dethrone champs.

[Gate83]

Colgate with stud DL Steffen and DB Bridgeforth back for 5th years has to be top pick. I would have FU as top threat to dethrone champs.

Don't like to blow our own horn, but... going into last year we thought Steffen & Bridgeforth were our two best defenders, and getting them back is huge. Plus a returning QB, most of the O-line back... you can't predict injuries & I hate both the 10 game schedule & the 'Cuse/Richmond start... but I do like this team quite a bit!

[Sader87]

Holy Cross is the true wild-card this year imo. At times last year they looked like one of the bettah teams in the PL, other times, not so much.

Pressure is on Gilmore to produce...another .500 or so season and his reign is ovah on Mt St James.

[bgsmitty43]

Don't like to blow our own horn, but... going into last year we thought Steffen & Bridgeforth were our two best defenders, and getting them back is huge. Plus a returning QB, most of the O-line back... you can't predict injuries & I hate both the 10 game schedule & the 'Cuse/Richmond start... but I do like this team quite a bit!

I actually like Colgate against Syracuse. Dino Babers will run a ton of plays and throw the ball all over the lot. If Colgate can manage the short passes and eliminate the "big plays", they have a chance. 'Cuse has a new regime that is untested. Eliminate injuries (no control over this) and you will be fine. Rooting for you guys.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

I actually like Colgate against Syracuse. Dino Babers will run a ton of plays and throw the ball all over the lot. If Colgate can manage the short passes and eliminate the "big plays", they have a chance. 'Cuse has a new regime that is untested. Eliminate injuries (no control over this) and you will be fine. Rooting for you guys.

I'll be surprised if Colgate keeps i within 20-24 points. Syracuse has some talented individual players that will give Colgate a lot of trouble. Dino Babers is a helluva offensive mind. He'll be able to take advantage of a so-so Colgate defense with numerous mismatches. The Raiders should be able to be score some but it won't be enough....

I'm think something along the lines of 'Cuse 55 Colgate 27

[LUHawker]

2016 will be a telling year in my mind for the PL. Sans GTown, this will be the first year where teams have a full complement of up to 60 scholarships. While Fordham has been a staple in the playoffs the last 3 years, they underperformed each year. Colgate had a nice run last year and the question will be whether Colgate's play was more "one-time" or if the PL has really raised the bar and can field strong teams consistently. Honestly, I don't think that is yet the case. Colgate surprised last year and it "felt" more like riding a wave. We'll see. I'd feel better if Fordham and Lehigh showed some semblance of defense, but the jury says no right now. I know our lone HC poster thinks HC is on the "cusp" (my word, not his), but HC has occupied that perch for 5+ years (i.e. ever since Dom Randolph left) and I don't see them elevating yet. And if not this year in Pujols's 8th season (I jest, but it feels that way), then when?

My guess is we see two PL teams make it and even both get to the round of 16, but very doubtful one gets to the round of 8 again - that will depend on the individual match-up. Which two teams, I don't know.

[bgsmitty43]

PL Out of Conference Schedule Rating as I see it: 5 points for strong opponent, 1 point for weak opponent. I listed Colgate first, although the score is lower, they only play 4 OOC opponents*. Points listed in parentheses.

Colgate - Syracuse (5), Yale (2), Richmond (5), Cornell (1) = 13 points*
Lafayette - C. Connecticut (3), Delaware (3), Princeton (2), Villanova (3), Army (4) = 15 points
Bucknell - Marist (2), Duquesne (4), Cornell (1), VMI (2), Charleston Southern (5) = 14 points
Holy Cross - Morgan St. (2), New Hampshire (4), Albany (3), Darmouth (2), Harvard (3) = 14 points
Fordham - Navy (5), Elizabeth City State (1), Penn (3), Monmouth (2), Yale (2) = 13 points
Lehigh - Monmouth (2), Villanova (3), Penn (3), Princeton (2), Yale (2) = 12 points
Georgetown - Davidson (1), Marist (2), Columbia (2), Harvard (3), Princeton (2) = 10 points

You could argue that Syracuse and Navy are worth an additional point. Surprising Lafayette beefed it up this year. I would say Colgate has the strongest OOC schedule, although they only play 4. The only way they wouldn't is if they played another "patsy". Thoughts?

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

I think Lehigh has a very tough OOC. Monmouth has turned into a solid Big South program. Villanova will be preseason Top 15. Penn is right there with Harvard as the IL favorite. Yale and Princeton are usually pretty good as well. Both swept Colgate and Lehigh last year....

I don't see how Lafayette's schedule is that tough. CCSU is middling at best NEC team, Delaware has been bumbling around for the last 3-4 years, Princeton is a solid Top 40 team generally nothing more, Army is a horrific FBS program. Villanova is easily the best team imo.

Bucknell has one really good team in CSU and one perhaps solid opponent in Duquesne. Although the Dukes did lose quite a bit from last years team. Cornell, Marist and VMI are legitimately terrible.

Lehigh and Colgate are the two that I see without a true cupcake/ bottom half of FCS team...

[Gangtackle11]

A point system that rates CCSU the same as Villanova is suspect at best.

[bgsmitty43]

I think Lehigh has a very tough OOC. Monmouth has turned into a solid Big South program. Villanova will be preseason Top 15. Penn is right there with Harvard as the IL favorite. Yale and Princeton are usually pretty good as well. Both swept Colgate and Lehigh last year....

I don't see how Lafayette's schedule is that tough. CCSU is middling at best NEC team, Delaware has been bumbling around for the last 3-4 years, Princeton is a solid Top 40 team generally nothing more, Army is a horrific FBS program. Villanova is easily the best team imo.

Bucknell has one really good team in CSU and one perhaps solid opponent in Duquesne. Although the Dukes did lose quite a bit from last years team. Cornell, Marist and VMI are legitimately terrible.

Lehigh and Colgate are the two that I see without a true cupcake/ bottom half of FCS team...

FCS Football had Villanova rated about 43, a bit surprising. I definitely see Penn and Harvard at top of Ivy with Princeton, Yale, and Dartmouth down a notch. Army is still an FBS program, so a 4 rating is legit. I read Duquesne is supposed to be very competitive this year and CSU predicted a top 6 team. I disagree in that Colgate does play Cornell, a bit soft, but make it up by playing Syracuse and Richmond, a top 4 program.

[bgsmitty43]

A point system that rates CCSU the same as Villanova is suspect at best.

CCSU has almost their entire D back with some returning injured starters that didn't play last year. According to FCS Football, Villanova has some holes to fill including experience for a young QB. They may be a bit mediocre for their standards, although I would like to see Coach Talley go out in style. I still rate both teams a 3.

[LUHawker]

I would like to see Coach Talley go out in style. I still rate both teams a 3.

I would also like him to go out in style...

Undefeated in the CAA, but miraculously with losses to both Lehigh and Lafayette.

[Go Green]

A point system that rates CCSU the same as Villanova is suspect at best.

Ditto for Dartmouth and Columbia.

[bgsmitty43]

Ditto for Dartmouth and Columbia.

Tread lightly! Bagnoli has those guys starting to believe in themselves. Ex Florida QB will provide a spark on offense. It will be interesting to see how Dartmouth will do without Williams at QB, that guy was the real deal! I think he will make an NFL roster. But, with Columbia rising and Dartmouth rebounding, I still give them both a 2.

[bgsmitty43]

Plus I just noticed that Dartmouth beat Columbia 13-9 last year in Hanover. Brace yourself this season for Dartmouth's trip to the Big Apple!

[Go Green]

Tread lightly! Bagnoli has those guys starting to believe in themselves. Ex Florida QB will provide a spark on offense. It will be interesting to see how Dartmouth will do without Williams at QB, that guy was the real deal! I think he will make an NFL roster. But, with Columbia rising and Dartmouth rebounding, I still give them both a 2.

You're entitled to your opinion. And you're not the only guy who thinks that because Dalyn Williams has graduated, Dartmouth is going to suck next season.

But Dartmouth has recruited very well in recent terms and next year's team should have the most guys with FBS scholarship offers assembled on a Dartmouth team in a generation. We will certainly miss Williams (and others), but reinforcements are available.

[Go Green]

Plus I just noticed that Dartmouth beat Columbia 13-9 last year in Hanover. Brace yourself this season for Dartmouth's trip to the Big Apple!

And the last time we lost to Columbia was.... when?

[bgsmitty43]

You're entitled to your opinion. And you're not the only guy who thinks that because Dalyn Williams has graduated, Dartmouth is going to suck next season.

But Dartmouth has recruited very well in recent terms and next year's team should have the most guys with FBS scholarship offers assembled on a Dartmouth team in a generation. We will certainly miss Williams (and others), but reinforcements are available.

I don't think Dartmouth will suck, just not be at the top of the Ivy next year. Coach Teevens is a class act and a good football mind and surrounded by quality assistant coaches (I've met McCorkle, Nice, and Clark). Always liked their green and white helmets with the "D" on the front. Tradition, love it! I still think they are rated a 2, Columbia at 2 maybe a stretch. Time will tell. I saw your crowd at Georgetown last season and was impressed with your fans.

[DFW HOYA]

PL Out of Conference Schedule Rating as I see it: 5 points for strong opponent, 1 point for weak opponent. I listed Colgate first, although the score is lower, they only play 4 OOC opponents*. Points listed in parentheses.
...
You could argue that Syracuse and Navy are worth an additional point. Surprising Lafayette beefed it up this year. I would say Colgate has the strongest OOC schedule, although they only play 4. The only way they wouldn't is if they played another "patsy". Thoughts?

The 1-5 point scale tends to oversell the strength of Bucknell and Georgetown's opponents but overall it matches up well with the scale below: if we take the list by 2015 end of season Sagarin rating and rate from 1-8 (8=Top 25, 7=26-50, 6=51-75, 5=76-100, 4=101-125, 3=126-150 2=151-200, 1=201-250, 0=Below 250, and a -1 for non Division I opponents), the numbers are as follows:

Fordham - Navy (7), Elizabeth City State (-1), Penn (3), Monmouth (2), Yale (2) = 13 points
Colgate - Syracuse (5), Yale (2), Richmond (4), Cornell (1) = 12 points
Holy Cross - Morgan St. (1), New Hampshire (2), Albany (1), Dartmouth (4), Harvard (4) = 12 points
Lafayette - C. Connecticut (1), Delaware (2), Princeton (2), Villanova (3), Army (3) = 11 points
Lehigh - Monmouth (2), Villanova (3), Penn (3), Princeton (2), Yale (2) = 12 points
Bucknell - Marist (1), Duquesne (2), Cornell (1), VMI (1), Charleston Southern (4) = 9 points
Georgetown - Davidson (0), Marist (1), Columbia (1), Harvard (4), Princeton (2) = 8 points

(And it's purely coincidence, but the 1-7 ranking mirrors the annual budgets of the seven schools.)

[bgsmitty43]

The 1-5 point scale tends to oversell the strength of Bucknell and Georgetown's opponents but overall it matches up well with the scale below: if we take the list by 2015 end of season Sagarin rating and rate from 1-8 (8=Top 25, 7=26-50, 6=51-75, 5=76-100, 4=101-125, 3=126-150 2=151-200, 1=201-250, 0=Below 250, and a -1 for non Division I opponents), the numbers are as follows:

Fordham - Navy (7), Elizabeth City State (-1), Penn (3), Monmouth (2), Yale (2) = 13 points
Colgate - Syracuse (5), Yale (2), Richmond (4), Cornell (1) = 12 points
Holy Cross - Morgan St. (1), New Hampshire (2), Albany (1), Dartmouth (4), Harvard (4) = 12 points
Lafayette - C. Connecticut (1), Delaware (2), Princeton (2), Villanova (3), Army (3) = 11 points
Lehigh - Monmouth (2), Villanova (3), Penn (3), Princeton (2), Yale (2) = 12 points
Bucknell - Marist (1), Duquesne (2), Cornell (1), VMI (1), Charleston Southern (4) = 9 points
Georgetown - Davidson (0), Marist (1), Columbia (1), Harvard (4), Princeton (2) = 8 points

(And it's purely coincidence, but the 1-7 ranking mirrors the annual budgets of the seven schools.)

Obviously, the Sagarin ratings are based on last years performance, correct? Football is nearly impossible to predict, but it is fun trying. Who can account for all the variables: momentum, injuries, coaching decisions, emotions, referee decisions, etc.? Looking forward to an exciting season in the Patriot League!

[bgsmitty43]

What is the status of the Lehigh football players that were charged with "breaking and entering" and "battery"? Were any dismissed from the team? Any of them key contributors to the team? I haven't heard any news on this.

[CFBfan]

PL Out of Conference Schedule Rating as I see it: 5 points for strong opponent, 1 point for weak opponent. I listed Colgate first, although the score is lower, they only play 4 OOC opponents*. Points listed in parentheses.

Colgate - Syracuse (5), Yale (2), Richmond (5), Cornell (1) = 13 points*
Lafayette - C. Connecticut (3), Delaware (3), Princeton (2), Villanova (3), Army (4) = 15 points
Bucknell - Marist (2), Duquesne (4), Cornell (1), VMI (2), Charleston Southern (5) = 14 points
Holy Cross - Morgan St. (2), New Hampshire (4), Albany (3), Darmouth (2), Harvard (3) = 14 points
Fordham - Navy (5), Elizabeth City State (1), Penn (3), Monmouth (2), Yale (2) = 13 points
Lehigh - Monmouth (2), Villanova (3), Penn (3), Princeton (2), Yale (2) = 12 points
Georgetown - Davidson (1), Marist (2), Columbia (2), Harvard (3), Princeton (2) = 10 points

You could argue that Syracuse and Navy are worth an additional point. Surprising Lafayette beefed it up this year. I would say Colgate has the strongest OOC schedule, although they only play 4. The only way they wouldn't is if they played another "patsy". Thoughts?

if you consider the avg score based on this point system then Gate would come out on top with a 3.2 avg,,,,,,

[LUHawker]

The 1-5 point scale tends to oversell the strength of Bucknell and Georgetown's opponents but overall it matches up well with the scale below: if we take the list by 2015 end of season Sagarin rating and rate from 1-8 (8=Top 25, 7=26-50, 6=51-75, 5=76-100, 4=101-125, 3=126-150 2=151-200, 1=201-250, 0=Below 250, and a -1 for non Division I opponents), the numbers are as follows:

Fordham - Navy (7), Elizabeth City State (-1), Penn (3), Monmouth (2), Yale (2) = 13 points
Colgate - Syracuse (5), Yale (2), Richmond (4), Cornell (1) = 12 points
Holy Cross - Morgan St. (1), New Hampshire (2), Albany (1), Dartmouth (4), Harvard (4) = 12 points
Lafayette - C. Connecticut (1), Delaware (2), Princeton (2), Villanova (3), Army (3) = 11 points
Lehigh - Monmouth (2), Villanova (3), Penn (3), Princeton (2), Yale (2) = 12 points
Bucknell - Marist (1), Duquesne (2), Cornell (1), VMI (1), Charleston Southern (4) = 9 points
Georgetown - Davidson (0), Marist (1), Columbia (1), Harvard (4), Princeton (2) = 8 points

(And it's purely coincidence, but the 1-7 ranking mirrors the annual budgets of the seven schools.)

The presence of the FBS schools skew the results, certainly for Fordham and Colgate. Swap those with top-tier FCS schools (assuming 4 points ie Richmond) and now FU has 10 and Colgate 11. Ignoring the fact that Harvard Dartmouth are both rated as 4s (very skeptical of this), it is a very tight range for the PL. Two 12's, two 11's, one 10, 9 & 8 each.

Qualitatively, I'd rate the OOC schedules as follows: Lafayette and Colgate tied at the top, followed by Lehigh and Fordham and HC (grouped) and then BU and GU. Still looking across the whole of the PL, the OOCs are pretty decent this year. 3 FBS games, 6 solid CAAs, mostly the upper tier of the Ivies and then a handful of other acceptable opponents...except you, Fordham, who should be spanked for that Elizabeth City State game xflaggedx

[DFW HOYA]

Still wishing Georgetown would schedule upward, as does Lafayette.

[Gangtackle11]

CCSU has almost their entire D back with some returning injured starters that didn't play last year. According to FCS Football, Villanova has some holes to fill including experience for a young QB. They may be a bit mediocre for their standards, although I would like to see Coach Talley go out in style. I still rate both teams a 3.

Villanova may have some question marks, but it's a long way from New Britain CT. Nova has 7-8 starters back from a top CAA defense coming back. No disrespect, but I'll take the Wildcats if anyone wants to take the Blue Devils.

Rating both a 3 is just no respect for Villanova.

[Sader87]

Duquense 4 Harvard 3.....and that's all I have to say about that. xdrunkyx

[bgsmitty43]

Duquense 4 Harvard 3.....and that's all I have to say about that. xdrunkyx

Duquense won the NEC last year and is posed to do it again this year with an All-American LB and other key starters returning. This may have been a stretch, but rewarding their effort and the momentum they have from last year's success. On the other hand, Harvard lost some key starters. I know Coach Murphy has a good system and reloads every year, but this year they may have to turn it up a notch.

[Gangtackle11]

Clearly we have a guy who is an NEC fan.

I enjoyed watching Duquesne scare W&M in the playoffs last season & they are credible, but are not yet worthy of your high ranking nor is CCSU who was 4-7 in a conference that regularly ranks near the bottom of the FCS.

Do you have Wagner beating BC this season too?

[bgsmitty43]

Clearly we have a guy who is an NEC fan.

I enjoyed watching Duquesne scare W&M in the playoffs last season & they are credible, but are not yet worthy of your high ranking nor is CCSU who was 4-7 in a conference that regularly ranks near the bottom of the FCS.

Do you have Wagner beating BC this season too?

No, but I do have Colgate playing Syracuse close!

[KPSUL]

And the last time we lost to Columbia was.... when?

32 years after you last beat UNH (1976) you lost a game to Columbia (2008). To be fair, you play Columbia every season and UNH about once every two years. But from a historical perspective Dartmouth appears to have a distinctly better chance of beating Columbia on the road than UNH at home. Would you trade a loss to Columbia for a win against UNH?

[Gangtackle11]

No, but I do have Colgate playing Syracuse close!

I can possibly see that. Nova had Syracuse on the ropes in 2014 opener only to miss a 25 yd. FG to win it & losing in double OT 27-26.

It will be the beginning of the Babers era & a loss to Colgate would take a lot of wind out of the Orangemen sails.

[bgsmitty43]

I can possibly see that. Nova had Syracuse on the ropes in 2014 opener only to miss a 25 yd. FG to win it & losing in double OT 27-26.

It will be the beginning of the Babers era & a loss to Colgate would take a lot of wind out of the Orangemen sails.

Question. I'm a relatively new Georgetown football fan. Has Georgetown and Villanova ever played each other? They are usually very competitive in basketball, and this might be a nice "Catholic" rivalry. I know presently the Nova football program is more successful than the Hoyas. I think this might spark some interest. Yes or no?

[Sader87]

Question. I'm a relatively new Georgetown football fan. Has Georgetown and Villanova ever played each other? They are usually very competitive in basketball, and this might be a nice "Catholic" rivalry. I know presently the Nova football program is more successful than the Hoyas. I think this might spark some interest. Yes or no?

They haven't played since 1950: http://www.cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/active/v/villanova/opponents_records.php?teamid=1262

In theory, it looks like a good football rivalry but both programs are currently in different places i.e. Nova has a full FCS complement of scholarships, red-shirts etc. whilst GTown is trying to get by in the PL without full scholarships.

I still maintain that Villanova will go PL in football ultimately...if the Hoya program is still around then, they would play once again.

[LUHawker]

I still maintain that Villanova will go PL in football ultimately...if the Hoya program is still around then, they would play once again.

You've held this position for quite a while now. Any new thought on timing and why this might happen? Right now, VU has the benefit of staying in the more competitive CAA, while enjoying the benefits of playing, LU, LC, BU, FU without committing to the PL. I think it could be a good fit for the league and VU, but don't see the impetus to do so, unless, the PL starts winning more head-to-head in recruiting and on the field.

[Sader87]

You've held this position for quite a while now. Any new thought on timing and why this might happen? Right now, VU has the benefit of staying in the more competitive CAA, while enjoying the benefits of playing, LU, LC, BU, FU without committing to the PL. I think it could be a good fit for the league and VU, but don't see the impetus to do so, unless, the PL starts winning more head-to-head in recruiting and on the field.

I'm not saying it will be next year or 3 years from now...but I still think it will happen (probably in 5-10 years)...the Villanova HC who was firmly against joining the PL will have left, the PL will improve with rostahs consisting of full schollys (save GTown) etc. etc. ....it just makes too much sense for Villanova institutionally, geographically etc to be in the PL for football.

[UNHWildcat18]

I'm not saying it will be next year or 3 years from now...but I still think it will happen (probably in 5-10 years)...the Villanova HC who was firmly against joining the PL will have left, the PL will improve with rostahs consisting of full schollys (save GTown) etc. etc. ....it just makes too much sense for Villanova institutionally, geographically etc to be in the PL for football.


villanova is with its peer institutions in the big east for all sports except football. I hate to say it but I don't think they give a two ****s about the "academic" fit of the PL institutions for football. They are in a top league for all other sports, they want to be in the top of the FCS football world which is CAA football (MVFC obviously as well). Even if a pl team proves to beat the top CAA which Colgate did to an extent this year, the CAA will never consistently be worse at the top than the PL. Could you reduce travel in PL, sure. All these other factors mentioned I believe they truly don't give a **** about. They aren't trading playing JMU and UD for bucknell and Georgetown.

[DFW HOYA]

villanova is with its peer institutions in the big east for all sports except football. I hate to say it but I don't think they give a two ****s about the "academic" fit of the PL institutions for football.

Are Villanova's peers really in the Big East? Maybe no more than four of them (e.g., Seton Hall and DePaul are not peer institutions).

I don't see any of Georgetown's top 10-12 peers in the Big East, and none in the PL (even HC)

[Sader87]

villanova is with its peer institutions in the big east for all sports except football. I hate to say it but I don't think they give a two ****s about the "academic" fit of the PL institutions for football. They are in a top league for all other sports, they want to be in the top of the FCS football world which is CAA football (MVFC obviously as well). Even if a pl team proves to beat the top CAA which Colgate did to an extent this year, the CAA will never consistently be worse at the top than the PL. Could you reduce travel in PL, sure. All these other factors mentioned I believe they truly don't give a **** about. They aren't trading playing JMU and UD for bucknell and Georgetown.

Don't discount the "rubbing shoulders with othah snobs" aspect of this decision. I'm not saying it's the right or correct decision...just that it is what it is in academia.

Your argument essentially proves my point....Villanova already gets its exposure from its Big East athletics....FCS football is an after thought for the most pahht for them I would assume. If they are going to continue to have football, my guess is that they will ultimately rather be in the company of Patriot League and Ivy League schools than the CAA schools.

[RichH2]

Nova would be a grat fit for PL but at best right now anOK fit for Nova. Talley hated non schollie PL not current version. Until PL is not viewed as a step down, there is no chance of such a move.IMO, you would need that and a shakeup in the CAA for any movement.

[DFW HOYA]

They aren't trading playing JMU and UD for bucknell and Georgetown.

Given the non-conference schedules, no one is trading for Bucknell and Georgetown. (Unless you're Marist.)

[Franks Tanks]

Nova isn't leaving the CAA unless they have a very compelling reason to do so. What that reason would be I don't really know, but it would include a major change in conference membership including Delaware leaving.

[Gangtackle11]

Villanova sees its peers in FCS football to be UNH, Delaware, JMU, W&M, etc.

It was pointed out in a prior post that we get our fill of PL teams playing them in out of conference tilts.

PL schollies narrowed the talent gap, but it also raised the economics closer to the CAA.

Any cry for PL football usually came from the Non-football supporters at Villanova that wanted the compromise of playing in the then non-schollie PL at lower costs. It's not so much anymore.

Villanova football alumni are not as large in numbers, but are strong & well heeled. Several costs of the program are endowed by large donors for example.

[UNHWildcat18]

Are Villanova's peers really in the Big East? Maybe no more than four of them (e.g., Seton Hall and DePaul are not peer institutions).

I don't see any of Georgetown's top 10-12 peers in the Big East, and none in the PL (even HC)

They are private catholic schools with big time men's basketball and good programs for men and women's for other sports. They are peer in that sense, maybe not as close in academic peers as you were probably referring too.

[UNHWildcat18]

Don't discount the "rubbing shoulders with othah snobs" aspect of this decision. I'm not saying it's the right or correct decision...just that it is what it is in academia.

Your argument essentially proves my point....Villanova already gets its exposure from its Big East athletics....FCS football is an after thought for the most pahht for them I would assume. If they are going to continue to have football, my guess is that they will ultimately rather be in the company of Patriot League and Ivy League schools than the CAA schools.

Love the accent, while it's very true snobs love being with other snobs, in this case I just don't believe academia is being held as high as people would think. I just don't see most of Villanova alumni and administration going yeah we should be in the PL because it's a better academic fit. Even with it closing on the CAA to an extent in terms of talent. I could be wrong but since football is such an after thought I don't see them doing it when the anchor is in so deep in the CAA

[Sader87]

Could very well be that Nova won't leave the CAA...don't pretend to know any differently. Just sayin', in the grand scheme of things, FCS football is not that big of a deal...they (Nova admin) may decide they'd rather be in a league with their institutional peers (Holy Cross, Fordham and Georgetown) and more local academic peers (Lehigh and Lafayette) than playing all ovah the Atlantic seaboard from Maine to Elon.

[Go Green]

Would you trade a loss to Columbia for a win against UNH?

Unless the Columbia loss eliminates us from Ivy title contention, absolutely.

[bgsmitty43]

Rating the PL QBs for 2016

1. Peter Pujals HC 3195 y 28 td 11 int rushing 319 y 1 td
2. Kevin Anderson Ford 3183 y 32 td 10 int 341 y 1 td
3. Jake Melville Col 2552 y 11 td 2 int *second leading rusher in PL with 1073 y and 11 td
4. RJ Nitti Buck 2477 y 13 td 10 int -182 y 6 td
5. Nick Shafnisky Leh 2279 y 15 td 10 int N/A
6. Drew Reed Laf 2008 y 11 td 10 int -105 y 1 td
7. Tim Barnes GU 79 y 0 td 1 int 42 y 0 td

All seven QBs will be a Sr. next year. Anderson and Melville's stats include their playoff run, Anderson 12 games, Melville 14 games. I like Melville's ability to run and pass, making it difficult to defend him. Anderson and Pujals appear to be about a toss up, although Pujals has received more press and accolades it seems to me. My vote for preseason top QB in the PL is Jake Melville of Colgate due to his double threat ability. Thoughts?

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Rating the PL QBs for 2016

1. Peter Pujals HC 3195 y 28 td 11 int rushing 319 y 1 td
2. Kevin Anderson Ford 3183 y 32 td 10 int 341 y 1 td
3. Jake Melville Col 2552 y 11 td 2 int *second leading rusher in PL with 1073 y and 11 td
4. RJ Nitti Buck 2477 y 13 td 10 int -182 y 6 td
5. Nick Shafnisky Leh 2279 y 15 td 10 int N/A
6. Drew Reed Laf 2008 y 11 td 10 int -105 y 1 td
7. Tim Barnes GU 79 y 0 td 1 int 42 y 0 td

All seven QBs will be a Sr. next year. Anderson and Melville's stats include their playoff run, Anderson 12 games, Melville 14 games. I like Melville's ability to run and pass, making it difficult to defend him. Anderson and Pujals appear to be about a toss up, although Pujals has received more press and accolades it seems to me. My vote for preseason top QB in the PL is Jake Melville of Colgate due to his double threat ability. Thoughts?

I think "most" people would have Shafnisky ahead of Nitti. Especially when you consider Nick's rushing ability and the offensive talent around him. While Pujals, Anderson, Melville and Shafnisky all have experience and good stats they're all a little flawed. There's no true standout imo in this group heading into the year. Perhaps one will emerge but I look at the QB's in the league this year as good but not "next level good".

[RichH2]

1 and 2 seem right. Melville and Shafnisky about even particularly if you account for Shaf's 674 yds rushing. Not much in the rest.

[bgsmitty43]

I think "most" people would have Shafnisky ahead of Nitti. Especially when you consider Nick's rushing ability and the offensive talent around him. While Pujals, Anderson, Melville and Shafnisky all have experience and good stats they're all a little flawed. There's no true standout imo in this group heading into the year. Perhaps one will emerge but I look at the QB's in the league this year as good but not "next level good".

I had the opportunity to see Dartmouth play at Georgetown last year. Dalyn Williams was one impressive athlete and QB. I agree, don't see anyone in the PL next year at that level. It will be interesting to see the 2017 season with all 7 QBs graduating.

[Gater]

Was really hoping to keep this thread on the PL expansion train.

Anderson looks really good to me. Has a big arm. Lehigh's freshman QB should probably be on this list. That kid looks like the real deal. Surprised the Reed hasn't turned out to be one of the best QB's in PL history after the start he had. Don't know what happened but his first five or so games were insane. Melville probably beats you with his head as much as anything. Had 2 INT's in 351 passes last year and is very good at running Colgate's read option.

For 2017, Colgate will better QB depth than it maybe ever has. Two *** guys wait in the wings (one lost a star after signing but we ignore that). Both backup QB's can run. Also have a good one coming in next year.

[RichH2]

Thanks gater.Expansion is like your favorite dead uncle that you dig up every summer to see how he is doing. :)
While I agree that Mayes is the real deal. A pure passer with a cannon. Landed on his feet last year when Shaf was injured. Dont get too excited about stars. Mayes was originally a 4 Rivals lowered him to 2 on signing and 247 to 3. On the flip side our two jr QBs had none but went up to 2 when they signed. :)

[bgsmitty43]

Thanks gater.Expansion is like your favorite dead uncle that you dig up every summer to see how he is doing. :)
While I agree that Mayes is the real deal. A pure passer with a cannon. Landed on his feet last year when Shaf was injured. Dont get too excited about stars. Mayes was originally a 4 Rivals lowered him to 2 on signing and 247 to 3. On the flip side our two jr QBs had none but went up to 2 when they signed. :)

A little QB controversy at Lehigh? Florida QBs (Mayes) are always good.

[LUHawker]

A little QB controversy at Lehigh? Florida QBs (Mayes) are always good.

There probably should be a controversy, but there won't be.

Mayes did very well stepping in for Shafnisky after he was injured, but once Nick came back, Mayes was M.I.A. A real shame because Mayes has a better arm and IMO superior quick-strike capability. By that I mean he has a better deep ball. Nick is a terrific runner who is a competent, but not exceptional thrower. I'd like to see both used this year, but Coach Coen seems set on Nick.

The last time Lehigh had such a parallel situation, it was JB Clark and Chris Lum. Lum sat the bench for one year too long and I fear that could be the same situation this time. To be fair, Shafnisky is far superior to JB Clark, so it isn't a perfect comparison, but there are strong similarities.

[RichH2]

There probably should be a controversy, but there won't be.

Mayes did very well stepping in for Shafnisky after he was injured, but once Nick came back, Mayes was M.I.A. A real shame because Mayes has a better arm and IMO superior quick-strike capability. By that I mean he has a better deep ball. Nick is a terrific runner who is a competent, but not exceptional thrower. I'd like to see both used this year, but Coach Coen seems set on Nick.

The last time Lehigh had such a parallel situation, it was JB Clark and Chris Lum. Lum sat the bench for one year too long and I fear that could be the same situation this time. To be fair, Shafnisky is far superior to JB Clark, so it isn't a perfect comparison, but there are strong similarities.
Not a controversy at leastearly on.
Mayes a pure passer,quick release and can line drive 40 yd throws.
Nick lacks arm strength but showed a much deeper arm last yr after shoulder pricedure. Accurate and most importantly makes good reads. He is a dynamic powerful runner
Both bring a lot. My guess is Brad will see action in various sets in most games. Really doubt Folmar will sit him all year behind Nick. This is Folmar's O. He is a pass first coach.

[LUHawker]

Not a controversy at leastearly on.
Mayes a pure passer,quick release and can line drive 40 yd throws.
Nick lacks arm strength but showed a much deeper arm last yr after shoulder pricedure. Accurate and most importantly makes good reads. He is a dynamic powerful runner
Both bring a lot. My guess is Brad will see action in various sets in most games. Really doubt Folmar will sit him all year behind Nick. This is Folmar's O. He is a pass first coach.

Maybe I'm too harsh on Nick, but we're now entering his third season as a starter and I haven't yet seen the ability to carry the team on his shoulders and "win" a big one. Granted the D has been horrific. I'll attempt to be patient, but it is not a strong suit of mine. The Nova game will be telling. I expect a close game, if not, we may need early changes.

[RichH2]

Maybe I'm too harsh on Nick, but we're now entering his third season as a starter and I haven't yet seen the ability to carry the team on his shoulders and "win" a big one. Granted the D has been horrific. I'll attempt to be patient, but it is not a strong suit of mine. The Nova game will be telling. I expect a close game, if not, we may need early changes.

Agree on Nova. No blame on Nick for last 3 yrs. Folmar's 1 st year a jumble of styles. Zero continuity. Last year dont think O could have been much better. Even if it could have been, D still just awful.
IMO ,Folmar will want to use his WR corps.

[Sader87]

HC has an intriguing back-up QB, Blaise Bell who will be a Junior. I don't foresee him getting much action at QB this year but he is a very good athlete who saw action as a WR last year as well. I'm assuming he'll be the heir apparent after Pujals graduates.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Agree on Nova. No blame on Nick for last 3 yrs. Folmar's 1 st year a jumble of styles. Zero continuity. Last year dont think O could have been much better. Even if it could have been, D still just awful.
IMO ,Folmar will want to use his WR corps.

The only game Shafnisky played poorly was against Yale. He had guys running wide open all over the field and couldn't come close.

His arm strength is decent at best. He has to at least be able to stretch the field from time to time for the offense to reach its potential. He has imo the best set of skill guys in the league to work with.

[RichH2]

The only game Shafnisky played poorly was against Yale. He had guys running wide open all over the field and couldn't come close.

His arm strength is decent at best. He has to at least be able to stretch the field from time to time for the offense to reach its potential. He has imo the best set of skill guys in the league to work with.
A new TE and 1 OL. Otherwise starters and lettermen everywhere. 3 excellent RBs.Topped off with the best WR group in PL certainly.
Clippings from last year dont ensure the same success this year. Hard work does.

[DFW HOYA]

Percentage of PL teams' passing yards by returning quarterback. One of these is not like the rest.

Melville (Colgate): 100%
Nitti (Bucknell): 100%
Pujals (Holy Cross): 98.2%
Anderson (Fordham): 97.3%
Reed (Lafayette): 79.3%
Shafinsky (Lehigh): 75.5%
Barnes (Georgetown): 3.1%

So, if scholarships weren't enough of an issue for Georgetown, nor the loss of its top rusher, or the loss of its leading receiver, is a fourth year QB with almost no in-game experience. And it's not like Tim Barnes will be summarily benched for one of Georgetown's five other QB's in that he received the #35 jersey award this spring and that's a position that almost demands in-game experience. It's a steep hill to climb for a QB that hasn't played a full season since 2012.

[RichH2]

HC has an intriguing back-up QB, Blaise Bell who will be a Junior. I don't foresee him getting much action at QB this year but he is a very good athlete who saw action as a WR last year as well. I'm assuming he'll be the heir apparent after Pujals graduates.

Best hope Blaise only get garbage time this year. Pujols is your offense. :)

[Lehigh'98]

Mayes should get a long hard look from the Lehigh coaches this summer.

[RichH2]

Mayes should get a long hard look from the Lehigh coaches this summer.

Andy did comment that it was an open competition. IMO,given Andy's loyalty, Nick may have to down with an injury for Brad to start season. If Brad does get in ,dont expect he will be unseated.

[Sader87]

Best hope Blaise only get garbage time this year. Pujols is your offense. :)

While Pujals is the straw that stirs the drink, the HC offense returns a fair amount of weapons (Flaherty, Wieczorek(sp?) as receivers...undersized but quick backs in Guild and Walker. I think Bell will be utilized somewhere as well..lot of the OL back too.....once again, it's the D that is worrisome going into the year imo.

[bgsmitty43]

PL QB efficiency ratings:

1. Anderson For 170.2
2. Shafnisky Leh 141.8
3. Pujals HC 129.1
4. Melville Col 125.3
5. Reed Laf 124.7
6. Nitti Buck 119.4
7. Barnes GU 66.5

This makes Fordham look pretty good, throw in Edmonds running the ball. Shafnisky's rating quite high as well. If you look at stats alone, looks bleak for my Hoyas.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Andy did comment that it was an open competition. IMO,given Andy's loyalty, Nick may have to down with an injury for Brad to start season. If Brad does get in ,dont expect he will be unseated.

Shafnisky deserves to start but Mayes should get some time here and there imo. Mayes is only a sophomore so he'll have plenty of time to shine. Obviously, if Shafnisky struggles then let Mayes have his chance.

Shafnisky's only real negative is arm strength. It's an obvious weakness but I feel like it can be overcome with some timely play calling. Otherwise, he's an excellent runner with very good accuracy on those short to medium (10-20 yard) passes. He really cut down on those WTF passes last season that plagued him sophomore year.

[RichH2]

Think he matured and Folmar got his system in place and running. Absent injury he is our QB. We lose little if anything with Brad playing. We lose Shaf's running but Nana and the Dirty Bs can pick up the slack :)

[bgsmitty43]

It appears that the Colgate O revolves around Melville. God forbid anything happen to him, Colgate O may be hurting. Looking at it, they seem to have the best D though. Again I say, championships are won with D.

[RichH2]

It appears that the Colgate O revolves around Melville. God forbid anything happen to him, Colgate O may be hurting. Looking at it, they seem to have the best D though. Again I say, championships are won with D.

Historically PL has been a QBcentric conference. Cross and Gate quite a bit more than the other 5 sr led teams. Gatecwith Steffans and Bridgeforth coming back from injury may have the best returning D. D could help them survive losing Melville. Cross does not have that luxury.

[Sader87]

Historically PL has been a QBcentric conference. Cross and Gate quite a bit more than the other 5 sr led teams. Gatecwith Steffans and Bridgeforth coming back from injury may have the best returning D. D could help them survive losing Melville. Cross does not have that luxury.

Hope springs eternal...HC does return 6 defensive stahtahs from last year (for bettah or worse)....most of the grad losses being in the secondary though Luke Ford FS returns. Injuries hindered the D last year (as they do for everyone I know)....also one of the bettah LBs may be returning this year after missing last season for academic reasons, though I'm not certain of his status.

[DFW HOYA]

Hope springs eternal...

I've got to remember that sometimes. Still...

[Sader87]

Hey...at least you guys joined the Big East when asked xdrunkyx

[DFW HOYA]

Hey...at least you guys joined the Big East when asked xdrunkyx

So, a what-if question. Holy Cross accepts the offer to join the Big East as a I-A school in place of BC in 1979. Where are the Crusaders today?

A) BC never joined the Big East and thus, when the ACC looked to poach Northeastern schools in 2003, they added Holy Cross.
B) Holy Cross was not invited by the ACC and is playing alongside UConn in the AAC.
C) Holy Cross followed the other Catholic schools to the new Big East but was not invited to the AAC, so they went I-A independent instead.
D) Fr. Brooks downgraded football just before the Big East got its first big money TV deal in football, and the Crusaders settled in the Yankee (now CAA).
E) Fr. Brooks still dropped all its football scholarships to play in the PL.

[Sader87]

So, a what-if question. Holy Cross accepts the offer to join the Big East as a I-A school in place of BC in 1979. Where are the Crusaders today?

A) BC never joined the Big East and thus, when the ACC looked to poach Northeastern schools in 2003, they added Holy Cross.
B) Holy Cross was not invited by the ACC and is playing alongside UConn in the AAC.
C) Holy Cross followed the other Catholic schools to the new Big East but was not invited to the AAC, so they went I-A independent instead.
D) Fr. Brooks downgraded football just before the Big East got its first big money TV deal in football, and the Crusaders settled in the Yankee (now CAA).
E) Fr. Brooks still dropped all its football scholarships to play in the PL.

My understanding is that it wasn't an HC or BC decision....it just sort of evolved in that sort of being the case/how it looked.

My guess is that we would be very similar to Villanova in league affiliations etc today if we had joined the BE in 1979.

[ngineer]

Andy did comment that it was an open competition. IMO,given Andy's loyalty, Nick may have to down with an injury for Brad to start season. If Brad does get in ,dont expect he will be unseated.

Andy plays the guy who will do the most for the team. He unseated Clark in JB's senior season because Lum flat out, outplayed him. If Mayes is lights out in August and Shaf struggles, then I think Andy goes with the who will move the O. If it is close, he'll go with the experienced hand in Shaf. Nick is a fiery leader. His running ability gives him the edge on Mayes if the competition is tight. However, I wouldn't be surprised to see Mayes get some time to give Nick a breather or the "change things up" for the opponent's D. Shafnisky taking on the Laughyette linebacker last year and actually tossing him out of bounds was one of the highlights of the year and said alot about Shafnisky.

[KillaBee]

Andy plays the guy who will do the most for the team. He unseated Clark in JB's senior season because Lum flat out, outplayed him. If Mayes is lights out in August and Shaf struggles, then I think Andy goes with the who will move the O. If it is close, he'll go with the experienced hand in Shaf. Nick is a fiery leader. His running ability gives him the edge on Mayes if the competition is tight. However, I wouldn't be surprised to see Mayes get some time to give Nick a breather or the "change things up" for the opponent's D. Shafnisky taking on the Laughyette linebacker last year and actually tossing him out of bounds was one of the highlights of the year and said alot about Shafnisky.



Your information is incorrect.. it was not a Linebacker, it was a DB, who happens to be on the N.Y. Giants current roster, and bad angles happen, sometimes when tackling. Matt Smalley is his name. Do not get to excited.

http://www.bigblueview.com/2016/7...preview-cb-matt-smalley-lafayette (http://www.bigblueview.com/2016/7/13/12131164/ny-giants-2016-roster-preview-cb-matt-smalley-lafayette)

[Franks Tanks]

Andy plays the guy who will do the most for the team. He unseated Clark in JB's senior season because Lum flat out, outplayed him. If Mayes is lights out in August and Shaf struggles, then I think Andy goes with the who will move the O. If it is close, he'll go with the experienced hand in Shaf. Nick is a fiery leader. His running ability gives him the edge on Mayes if the competition is tight. However, I wouldn't be surprised to see Mayes get some time to give Nick a breather or the "change things up" for the opponent's D. Shafnisky taking on the Laughyette linebacker last year and actually tossing him out of bounds was one of the highlights of the year and said alot about Shafnisky.

What exactly does it say about Shaf? About the same as throwing for 81 yards in 150. He is a good runner and very limited passer(which everyone already knows), who "tossed" a dude who weighs 40 pounds less than he does.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

What exactly does it say about Shaf? About the same as throwing for 81 yards in 150. He is a good runner and very limited passer(which everyone already knows), who "tossed" a dude who weighs 40 pounds less than he does.

He's a really good passer on short to intermediate passes. He is below average with his deep balls. Shaf is still a very solid QB at this level who has the potential to put up excellent numbers given the talent that surrounds him. If he was able to improve on his deep ball since last year then he will be deadly this year.

Shaf is in some ways the opposite of Colvin who was great with the deep passes but questionable at best with those quick passes. Part of that was due to his decision making. Both are excellent runners...

[Franks Tanks]

He's a really passer on short to intermediate passes. He is below average with his deep balls. Shaf is still a very solid QB at this level who has the potential to put up excellent numbers given the talent that surrounds him. If he was able to improve on his deep ball since last year then he will be deadly this year.

He is a solid FCS QB, never said he wasn't. I still think he has below average accuracy and arm strength on even the shorter routes, but he has improved. He should be better in that department this year, but may still only reach average accuracy. He is tough and a good runner.

[RichH2]

He is a solid FCS QB, never said he wasn't. I still think he has below average accuracy and arm strength on even the shorter routes, but he has improved. He should be better in that department this year, but may still only reach average accuracy. He is tough and a good runner.
FT
Shaf completed just under 67% last year. Dont think that average quatifies as below average. Not strong on deep balls. After shoulder procedure he has extnded his depth. He showed good zip on throws in the 35 yd range. True he does not have a power arm like Mayes but he is very adept from 35 yds in. His best attribute is his reads now , even more than running.

[DFW HOYA]

My guess is that we would be very similar to Villanova in league affiliations etc today if we had joined the BE in 1979.

So, would there even be a PL today if Holy Cross wasn't there to support Peter Likins' plan, or would the Pennsylvania schools and Colgate have morphed into a regional football league regardless?

[Sader87]

So, would there even be a PL today if Holy Cross wasn't there to support Peter Likins' plan, or would the Pennsylvania schools and Colgate have morphed into a regional football league regardless?

I think there might have been....Lehigh, Lafayette, Bucknell and Colgate had a much longah history of playing one another in football. HC really only played Colgate regulahly in football before 1986. We had played Bucknell twice: in 1925 and 1953, Lehigh once in 1924 and Lafayette nevah before the formation of the Colonial (now Patriot) League.

Not sure what the rules were for how many schools had to be in a league then etc....but I don't think it really mattahed then as teams didn't go to the playoffs etc.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

When is media day?

[DFW HOYA]

When is media day?

Does anyone go to Patriot League Media Day outside of the Morning Call and the Express-Times?

[RichH2]

Does anyone go to Patriot League Media Day outside of the Morning Call and the Express-Times?

Depends on season. Not unusual for other papers to have stringers attend. Enquirer usually has one there.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

So when is media day?

[RichH2]

Sorry owl. Was over on PL Board. Spoke to Steve yesterday. His vacation ends with Media Day. This weekend up coming. I will get exact date for you in the AM.

[Fordham]

Sorry owl. Was over on PL Board. Spoke to Steve yesterday. His vacation ends with Media Day. This weekend up coming. I will get exact date for you in the AM.

Which PL board?

[van]

Which PL board?

http://forums.college-sports-journal.com/viewforum.php?f=4

[RichH2]

owl
Media is Tuesday 8/2

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

owl
Media is Tuesday 8/2

Wow! Seems late this year! Thanks!

[Go...gate]

Does anyone go to Patriot League Media Day outside of the Morning Call and the Express-Times?

Newark Star-Ledger, now essentially merged with the Trenton Times.

[Go...gate]

My understanding is that it wasn't an HC or BC decision....it just sort of evolved in that sort of being the case/how it looked.

My guess is that we would be very similar to Villanova in league affiliations etc today if we had joined the BE in 1979.

Didn't Holy Cross' decision open the door to the Big East Conference's extension of an invitation to Seton Hall?

[DFW HOYA]

Didn't Holy Cross' decision open the door to the Big East Conference's extension of an invitation to Seton Hall?

Seton Hall joined after Rutgers declined an offer.