D2/NAIA to FCS jump

[Mike296]

So this is a topic that's been bugging me for a while and I feel like I need to bring this to light for the simple fact that there's a possibility that we might see a few D2 schools make the jump to FCS in the near future. I'm not saying that it's guaranteed that this'll happen, But it is plausible to think that this could happen with all the teams going from FCS to FBS that some conferences might look to some higher D2 schools to make a jump to the FCS.


What D2 schools would make sense to move up and what conferences should consider them?


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[Professor Chaos]

NW Missouri St could move up from D2 and immediately be a better FCS program than Missouri St.

[Catatonic]

Central Oklahoma. There are currently no FCS programs in the state, which would make for a nice niche. Southland or Mo Valley. Not sure if they have any interest though.

West Texas A&M. A new stadium is in the works and they have a D1 history. TAMU-Commerce is interested in moving up. Both would work in the Southland and would be more competitive than Houston Baptist.

WTAMU might work for the Big Sky as well, if they are interested in exposure to the Texas market.

North Alabama, West Georgia, and Valdosta State. Ohio Valley, Big South, Southern.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The best possible fit for the Patriot League at the D-II level is Bentley University:

http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/bentley-university-2124

After that, when it comes to competitive football programs that could be a match, there are Assumption College (MA), and LIU-C.W. Post (NY). Both are bigger stretches to qualify academically, however.

[hebmskebm]

I was under the impression schools are no longer allowed to jump from NAIA to NCAA DI, and can only join DI if they are currently DII and invited by an existing DI conference. I believe Houston Baptist was the last school to make the NAIA/DI jump before the rules changed.

[Laker]

Grand Valley State has not expressed any interest in moving, but they have a great all around program.

[IBleedYellow]

I was under the impression schools are no longer allowed to jump from NAIA to NCAA DI, and can only join DI if they are currently DII and invited by an existing DI conference. I believe Houston Baptist was the last school to make the NAIA/DI jump before the rules changed.

Pretty sure this is correct.

You have to be invited to FCS now, just like FBS.

[gumby013]

Grand Valley State has not expressed any interest in moving, but they have a great all around program.

Grand Valley would clean up recruiting as the only FCS team in Michigan.

[JSUSoutherner]

North Alabama. We're always talking on GJS about that they should move up. They would be a competitive FCS team from day one. Getting them in the OVC would be nice.

[nodak651]

I hope this never happens:

If I were St. Thomas (MN D3) I would look at moving up. I think it's unlikely that any public MN school will move up any time soon, if ever. St. Thomas is D3, but has a decent enrollment of 10K, is well known among those living in the Twin Cities, and it has an endowment of almost 500 million. I think they could steal MN recruits from all of the Dakota schools very easily. This would be their football stadium - its the soon to be built MLS stadium and 3.5 miles from campus.

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=22270&stc=1

Current Stadium:

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=22272&stc=1

[BisonFan02]

I hope this never happens:

If I were St. Thomas (MN D3) I would look at moving up. I think it's unlikely that any public MN school will move up any time soon, if ever. St. Thomas is D3, but has a decent enrollment of 10K, is well known among those living in the Twin Cities, and it has an endowment of almost 500 million. I think they could steal MN recruits from all of the Dakota schools very easily. This would be their football stadium - its the soon to be built MLS stadium and 3.5 miles from campus.

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=22270&stc=1

Current Stadium:

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=22272&stc=1

Non starter.....they are perfectly happy in the MIAC....and I don't really blame them.

[nodak651]

Non starter.....they are perfectly happy in the MIAC....and I don't really blame them.

Defiantly agree with you. I just think that they would be very successful if they tried. Couldn't resist mentioning it, as I've thought about it for some time.

[Shockerman]

Always thought Minnesota State would be a good fit to move up. They would add instant depth to The Summit in basketball and fit perfectly in its geography. Would also be huge for the conference basketball tournament in Sioux Falls. Not sure if they would have to drop Football or not though like Nebraska Omaha. Seems like they could make it work with no FCS team in Wisconsin or Minnesota though.

[dgtw]

North Alabama. We're always talking on GJS about that they should move up. They would be a competitive FCS team from day one. Getting them in the OVC would be nice.

I know and I would love to see them (or West Georgia) join the OVC. UNA has actually applied for D1 membership but they have to have a conference invitation to get in and that hasn't happened. While I agree the OVC would be a good fit, the rest of the league sees themselves as a premier basketball conference, evidenced by the eighth place team winning the tournament so they aren't bringing in a school that has football as their cornerstone sport. They also rejected Northern Kentucky.

As a practical matter, I don't know if I'd want the league expanding any at the current time. We have nine football members, which makes for a perfect round robin schedule, except for Tennessee State's deal where they only play seven. If you add anyone else, we couldn't do a nine game conference schedule as it would limit you to one true non-conference game, not counting the FBS money game. Plus, Tennessee State would never agree as they don't want to play eight.

So that leaves you not playing someone, which leads to the possibility of co-champs and maybe one of them not making the playoffs.

Adding just UNA gives you 13 for Olympic sports and that causes problems with basketball scheduling so they'd probably add another non-football school and nobody wants that as we have enough of that garbage as it is. I worry if EKU ever leaves they'll do just that. If we leave I hope they replace us with one of those so they can wallow in their own stupidity.

[Catatonic]

Grand Valley State has not expressed any interest in moving, but they have a great all around program.

Grand Valley commissioned a feasibility study several years back to look at a possible move to D1 and concluded that D2 made more sense for them.

[Laker]

Always thought Minnesota State would be a good fit to move up. They would add instant depth to The Summit in basketball and fit perfectly in its geography. Would also be huge for the conference basketball tournament in Sioux Falls. Not sure if they would have to drop Football or not though like Nebraska Omaha. Seems like they could make it work with no FCS team in Wisconsin or Minnesota though.

The whole NCC should have moved up in the late 90s, but a couple of schools reversed how they were going to vote overnight.

Great move for NDSU and SDSU, maybe even USD. Not quite as good a move for UND- they should really be in the Summit. Not a good move for UNC. And UNO dropped my favorite sport, football.

There doesn't seem to be any grass roots support for a move to D1 from Mankato. And I would go crazy if they did and dropped football. Although if St. Cloud went D1 Mankato would follow. Neither one of them has the money to do it- and the U of MN would be dead set against it.

[RedFlash]

If I were running the NEC, I'd target Gannon, Mercyhurst and/or Seton Hill - all D2 members of the PSAC for football membership. While not as competitive as some of the state schools - such as Slippery Rock, IUP, etc. - they are all private institutions that would have more flexibility with athletic spending then the PA state schools in their current conference. I think the PSAC has a 36 scholarship limit - so assuming those schools are fully funded to that limit, adding the additional scholarships to get to 40 (8 scholarships when Title IX is taken into consideration) hopefully would be doable.

Both Gannon and Mercyhurst are located in Erie, PA (leaving an 8 hour bus ride as their longest trip to Bryant) while Seton Hill is in Greensburg, PA - 45 minutes east of Pittsburgh and could become a nice geographical rival for St. Francis.

[IBleedYellow]

Minnesota fans - would the schools even be allowed to have FCS teams?

I feel like The U would shut them down.

[BisonFan02]

Minnesota fans - would the schools even be allowed to have FCS teams?

I feel like The U would shut them down.

As far as the public schools go....probably. A private institution could tell "The U" to go **** themselves and do it anyway. :D

The MIAC is a good deal........I would kill if my alma mater could join (that pesky fact that the school is in ND hurts.... xlolx ).

[Yote 53]

I just get the sense that the more Gopher athletics suck the more the public in Minnesota are open to somebody else getting a shot at the D1 level to see what they can do. Minnesota State could do it. The place just looks and feels like an FCS school.

A good move for USD??? LOL, yeah it's been a good move. We've experienced some good success in D1 so far and some big moments in each of our programs. Football has had some big wins and I think is finally finding its footing. Men's basketball had a rough year but is building towards the future. Women's basketball is tops in the conference. Track & field has athletes who are being named All-Americans. Facilities have been built, funding increased. I'd say things are moving in a positive direction.

[Laker]

Minnesota fans - would the schools even be allowed to have FCS teams?

I feel like The U would shut them down.

I'm afraid that you are correct. The U has long followed a divide and conquer policy. I bet that if UMD hadn't already had hockey that the Gophers would have tried to stop Bemidji, Mankato and St. Cloud to go D1.

Several years ago I was listening to Mike Max on his night show and some basketball guru thought that both St. Cloud and Mankato should go D1 in basketball. The problem would be dropping football. That would suck.

[Milktruck74]

Three that come to mind are Carson-Newman, Delta State and Lenoir-Rhyne....not sure any have a desire, but all three have had successful programs and could probably be successful with the jump....

[jacksfan29]

USD should have moved when SDSU And NDSU did. Today all their sports would be in a far better position. The past is the past, USD's best move was taking the Summit/MVFC slot over the Big Sky. UND seem lost. Almost as if the state of ND has forgotten they exist outside of hockey.

I think USD will be the surprise team in Men's BB next year, and I expect Nielsen to put a much improved product on the field in FB. The talent is there. SDSU and USD fans may disagree and sometimes hate, but I and most everyone I know was pretty happy that USD got into the Summit/MVFC.

Oh, tops in the conference in Women's BB? We shall see what next year brings minus Seekamp, but those pesky Rabbits and their 7 NCAA bids in 8 years plus runs in the WNIT are standing in the way of USD being anything but #2 right now.

QUOTE=Yote 53;2329174]I just get the sense that the more Gopher athletics suck the more the public in Minnesota are open to somebody else getting a shot at the D1 level to see what they can do. Minnesota State could do it. The place just looks and feels like an FCS school.

A good move for USD??? LOL, yeah it's been a good move. We've experienced some good success in D1 so far and some big moments in each of our programs. Football has had some big wins and I think is finally finding its footing. Men's basketball had a rough year but is building towards the future. Women's basketball is tops in the conference. Track & field has athletes who are being named All-Americans. Facilities have been built, funding increased. I'd say things are moving in a positive direction.[/QUOTE]

[Twentysix]

USD should have moved when SDSU And NDSU did. Today all their sports would be in a far better position. The past is the past, USD's best move was taking the Summit/MVFC slot over the Big Sky. UND seem lost. Almost as if the state of ND has forgotten they exist outside of hockey.

I think USD will be the surprise team in Men's BB next year, and I expect Nielsen to put a much improved product on the field in FB. The talent is there. SDSU and USD fans may disagree and sometimes hate, but I and most everyone I know was pretty happy that USD got into the Summit/MVFC.

Oh, tops in the conference in Women's BB? We shall see what next year brings minus Seekamp, but those pesky Rabbits and their 7 NCAA bids in 8 years plus runs in the WNIT are standing in the way of USD being anything but #2 right now.

QUOTE=Yote 53;2329174]I just get the sense that the more Gopher athletics suck the more the public in Minnesota are open to somebody else getting a shot at the D1 level to see what they can do. Minnesota State could do it. The place just looks and feels like an FCS school.

A good move for USD??? LOL, yeah it's been a good move. We've experienced some good success in D1 so far and some big moments in each of our programs. Football has had some big wins and I think is finally finding its footing. Men's basketball had a rough year but is building towards the future. Women's basketball is tops in the conference. Track & field has athletes who are being named All-Americans. Facilities have been built, funding increased. I'd say things are moving in a positive direction.[/QUOTE]

It's just too bad we all ended up in the summit/MVFC instead of the Big Sky. But the Dakota schools being together trumps any particular fcs conference affiliation.

The only non-Dakota worthwhile rivalry NDSU has in the MVFC is with UNI. Montana + Montana State would have been pure bonus, and EWU would have probably played the role UNI plays now. It's a shame that they [the Big Sky] ****ed us over back then.

I would assume that everything I said about NDSU applies equally to SDSU and USD. But, I'd rather stay together with SDSU than be anywhere else in particular at the FCS level.

[Twentysix]

If UCSD would ever start football, they could be an FCS powerhouse. Though they would probably only stop in FCS for the requisite waiting period to get scholarship levels up to the FBS level.

[Catatonic]

If UCSD would ever start football, they could be an FCS powerhouse. Though they would probably only stop in FCS for the requisite waiting period to get scholarship levels up to the FBS level.

Why do you imagine UCSD would be more successful than UC Davis? Davis had a history of success at the D2 level before moving to FCS, where they don't look to become a powerhouse anytime soon. Just curious.

[Twentysix]

Why do you imagine UCSD would be more successful than UC Davis? Davis had a history of success at the D2 level before moving to FCS, where they don't look to become a powerhouse anytime soon. Just curious.

Well for one, the population disparity between Davis and San Diego. Davis is a lower tiered UC than UCSD (UCD ranges from 4th to 7th in the UC hierarchy; UCSD is 3rd.) Though, I think Davis also chooses to be at the level they are in the FCS. They could "easily" pour money into their program and destroy most of the FCS.

It's all for naught though, the students at the UCs constantly vote down football.

[NY Crusader 2010]

If UCSD would ever start football, they could be an FCS powerhouse. Though they would probably only stop in FCS for the requisite waiting period to get scholarship levels up to the FBS level.

FBS? Isn't there a school called San Diego State that might kinda block their way?

[melloware13]

I remember reading a few years ago that West Chester was looking into leaving the PA State System (I guess to become a public along the lines of Temple, Penn State, Pitt), and if that happened they would be a decent fit for the NEC

[SENOREIDA]

I remember reading a few years ago that West Chester was looking into leaving the PA State System (I guess to become a public along the lines of Temple, Penn State, Pitt), and if that happened they would be a decent fit for the NEC
I could defiantly see West Chester move up.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

I could defiantly see West Chester move up.

Bloomsburg has the far superior program but the school is off the beaten path.

West Chester has some things going for it like past history and location. Their stadium was pretty rundown the last time I was there. Granted, that's about 10 years ago....

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Trying to remember the sundry PSAC schools that have talked about going to FCS/I-AA over the years.... Bloomsburg... West Chester... California (PA). I thought the one school with the most definitive plan to do so, but this was a while ago, was IUP.

My impression of the West Chester talk was more of the pie-in-the-sky variety. I'm not sure there was much of a plan in place aside from "leaving the state system... underpants... profit" type of plan. Again, I thought IUP had more of a study in place to move, but I don't think it got anywhere.

Edit: found the discussion re: IUP:

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/showthread.php?704-IUP-considering-going-D-I

Quote from the article From Bisonville:

"I hope it was a positive stir," Atwater said Wednesday. "I have big goals. I'd like to see us go to Division I-AA as a first step, not necessarily in all sports at the start. I think it's realistic to look at I-AA. Once we achieve that, it seems the next step would be to go further as we become established."

http://www.bisonville.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-5571.html

Maybe these were all hopes and dreams more than actual plans.

[Twentysix]

FBS? Isn't there a school called San Diego State that might kinda block their way?

What could San Diego State possibly do? The CSU and the UC are different systems entirely, and san diego collectively doesn't give a **** about SDSU. Granted they wouldn't give a **** about UCSD either, but that doesn't mean they couldn't fill a 50-60k stadium with a decent FBS team.

Plus everyone knows all the rich and successful people went to UCSD :p.

[SUUTbird]

I would really like to see Minnesota State or Minnesota Duluth make the jump if only the U would stop being stupid about it, my uncle is a big alumn/supporter of Duluth athletic programs and has mentioned the discussion to move up as been brought up a few times, only thing stopping them is the University of Minnesota.

[Franks Tanks]

I remember reading a few years ago that West Chester was looking into leaving the PA State System (I guess to become a public along the lines of Temple, Penn State, Pitt), and if that happened they would be a decent fit for the NEC

Not sure if leaving the state system would benefit West Chester. Doing so would come with a major loss of state funding, and tuition to WCU would become more in line with Pitt, PSU and Temple. West Chester is popular due in large part because they offer quality programs at a reduced cost to the state related school, and if tuition would rise to similar numbers I think they would suffer.

Any of the PA state schools would really struggle moving to DI due to their funding models. All scholarships must come from donations or fund raising rather than sttae funds, so they would need major bucks to upgrade facilities and scholarship levels to compete in D1. Moving out of the state system may give them additional flexibility, but not sure it is feasible or a worthwhile project. Basically I think it is unlikely that any of the PA state school will move to D1 anytime soon. Several of the schools, namely IUP and WCU are large enough to support D1 athletics, but a lot is going against them.

[Franks Tanks]

Bloomsburg has the far superior program but the school is off the beaten path.

West Chester has some things going for it like past history and location. Their stadium was pretty rundown the last time I was there. Granted, that's about 10 years ago....

Bloom has has much greater success over the last 15-20 years, but they have stepped back a bit since Coach Hale's retirement. West Chester and Bloom have been pretty even over the last few years, and that game usually decides the champ of the PSAC east ( with Ship also typically in the mix). West Chester was in the d2 semifinals 2 years ago, and if Bloom isn't careful WCU may be the new team to beat in the east. West Chester looks like a D1 school in many ways, but due to their status as a PA state school a move seems unlikely.

[RedFlash]

Not sure if leaving the state system would benefit West Chester. Doing so would come with a major loss of state funding, and tuition to WCU would become more in line with Pitt, PSU and Temple. West Chester is popular due in large part because they offer quality programs at a reduced cost to the state related school, and if tuition would rise to similar numbers I think they would suffer.

Any of the PA state schools would really struggle moving to DI due to their funding models. All scholarships must come from donations or fund raising rather than sttae funds, so they would need major bucks to upgrade facilities and scholarship levels to compete in D1. Moving out of the state system may give them additional flexibility, but not sure it is feasible or a worthwhile project. Basically I think it is unlikely that any of the PA state school will move to D1 anytime soon. Several of the schools, namely IUP and WCU are large enough to support D1 athletics, but a lot is going against them.

This is well stated and exactly why I think the only viable choices from the PSAC are the three private schools in the western part of the state. Now, if these restrictions on the state schools weren't in place, West Chester would make the most sense given it's location. The NEC could use a team in the eastern part of PA.

[Twentysix]

I would really like to see Minnesota State or Minnesota Duluth make the jump if only the U would stop being stupid about it, my uncle is a big alumn/supporter of Duluth athletic programs and has mentioned the discussion to move up as been brought up a few times, only thing stopping them is the University of Minnesota.

Yeah, mankato or duluth would be interesting. Good additions to the summit as well.

[Shockerman]

I would really like to see Minnesota State or Minnesota Duluth make the jump if only the U would stop being stupid about it, my uncle is a big alumn/supporter of Duluth athletic programs and has mentioned the discussion to move up as been brought up a few times, only thing stopping them is the University of Minnesota.

The following would make a hell of nucleus for the Summit. The problem is, if one of the Minnesota schools moves up, the other big publics would want to follow. All that would do is dilute the talent pool that the four Dakota schools rely on. IMO, the Dakota schools would block any more Minnesota move ups as we all know you have to have a conference invite to move.

Minnesota State
UND
NDSU
SDSU
USD

Throw in Denver, Omaha, and ORU and that would be a hell of a non football conference.