CALL FOR PATSY RATING NEEDS 2016

[Lehigh Football Nation]

It's that time. If you're a fan, list what you think the team's needs are.

[RichH2]

Pretty much a repeat for me.
NG
CB
Best Athlete

[Fordham]

I actually find this difficult since we had such a huge class last year that even at the positions we need to improve we may have younger guys ready to jump in. Better put, we may have guys who got a lot of playing time as freshmen and sophs that could improve nicely, year over year. Much more so than in years past given how big last year's class was.

Since our D stunk last year, though, I'll put this up:

DL
DB
WR

One thing I feel comfortable with is that this year's class will be our worst rated Patsy group and that's just because it's a ridiculously small group, numbers-wise. I'm sure people will comment about the huge drop off now that Moorhead is gone and how poorly it reflects on Breiner but the reality is that if the coaching change had happened last year, Breiner's first recruiting class would have blown out the Patsy rankings.

[LUHawker]

New DC
Lights
Beer in stadium

Oh wait... you meant recruits. Then how about, a large MLB, a TALL CB and a change of pace RB. I'll also second RichH2's desire for a big bodied D Lineman; don't care which position, just someone to plug up the running lanes

[RichH2]

New DC
Lights
Beer in stadium

Oh wait... you meant recruits. Then how about, a large MLB, a TALL CB and a change of pace RB. I'll also second RichH2's desire for a big bodied D Lineman; don't care which position, just someone to plug up the running lanes
+1 :) :)

[breezy]

This is my perspective on the recruiting needs for Holy Cross.

Factors to consider: [1] departing 2015 seniors; [2] immediate need for depth; and [3] anticipated replacement of the 2016 senior class. Another factor is the potential for a couple of seniors to return for a 5th year due to losing a season to injury earlier in their careers.

The majority of HC's departing 2015 seniors were on defense; notable losses include SS Matt Bhaya and several other DBs, a couple of starting LBs, and several DLs (most notably DT Mike Galantini). HC had numerous injuries on the defensive side during the 2015 season, and that permitted some freshmen and sophomore defenders to get significant playing time. The two prior recruiting classes contained a good group of capable DLs and LBs, and a smaller number of quality DBs. The only loss of note on offense is WR/KR Kalif Raymond.

As alluded to in Fordham's comments above, the scholarship era seems to have reduced the importance of the immediate need for depth. When HC lost its projected starting LBs and CBs to injury during the 2015 season, it allowed capable but inexperienced underclassmen to get on the field. Also, due to rather large freshman and sophomore classes last year (sophomores and juniors in 2016), there is not a great need to recruit for immediate depth.

The rising senior class is small (approximately 17 players, not counting potential 5th-year seniors), but it is concentrated on offense (especially on the OL), so even though the graduating class is heavy on defense, the recruiting needs cannot be limited to defense.

Based on this criteria, I believe the principal needs for this recruiting class are as follows:

1. DB
2. OL
3. Offensive athletes (WR / RB).

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Point of information on the Patsies. This idea of "depth" has been one that has been challenging for the Committee to encompass, especially since the classes are now split up by "scholarship" (6 schools) and "non-scholarship (G'Town). Another factor has been the shrinking of the squad size of PL schools - in the past, the practical limit of the roster was over 100 recruits, but now that number is reduced.

The Committee's idea of "depth" was always that of "replacement", shorthand for requiring a certain minimum of players to "replace" the numbers that had graduated. This number was a blunt instrument. Sometimes, through 5th year seniors or other factors, class sizes vary a lot.

If a school had a small graduating class and thus only had a small number of positions to fill, the Patsy Rating would be hurt by the lack of "depth". However, this can be offset somewhat by bringing in a class with massive quality. A class of 11 recruits with a bunh of guys like *** Chase Edmonds still gets a pretty darned good Patsy rating. Of course, a class of 30 with multiple ** and *** recruits will get even more points.

This year marks the final one for the scholarship schools where they are replacing a "non-scholarship" class. Now, the hard limit of 60 scholarships are really in play. This is going to make this year's Patsies very interesting.

[Lehigh'98]

Southern Speed and North Dakota State linemen

[RichH2]

Southern Speed and North Dakota State linemen
:) This weekend should give us a good shot at both. Assuming all the kids can make it to campus.

[Gater]

Colgate needs:
1. Patsy Credit for last year's 24 recruits!!!
2. Other stuff. Including...

1. OL--currently a real strength, only had two OL recruits last year.
2. Punter--4 year starter graduates.
3. Kicker--starter is senior.
4. LB's--only two guys really saw time at ILB last year so it's hard to say what else is there (every other position on D saw guys rotating in and out). From a fan's perspective, this is a need.

A *** QB comes in, but Colgate has more depth at the position than anytime since the mid '80's. Lots of good receivers. DL is loaded for two years. RB has a very good junior, a strong senior, and a good freshman coming in--might argue that this is a need with how much Colgate runs the ball. If you don't include specialists in the needs, you could argue that RB or CB is a need (though last year's class had two good corners come in and see time). Aside from potentially being in a cycle where they are a light at O-linemen in three seasons, Colgate seems to have very good balance right now and pretty strong players at most positions. Also, with 20 starters coming back it's a little harder to know what the depth is like at a lot of positions--and I'm definitely not the guy with any inside info.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Southern Speed and North Dakota State linemen

That's a championship formula!

For me it's...
1. DL
2. OL
3. DB

[Go...gate]

For Colgate, good offensive and defensive linemen, kicker and a receiver or two with speed.

[ngineer]

:) This weekend should give us a good shot at both. Assuming all the kids can make it to campus.

Going to be a big screw up with the weather, unless they got in today. Of course, they won't be able to go much of anywhere with 20" on the ground....then again, that could result in a great time. (;-)

[ngineer]

My priorities would be:

1. big mobile LB
2. Tall Dbs who can stick
3. big quick DL

Do you get my drift? Defense wins championships! I cannot say it enough. Plus, we have enough O already for next season. Next year, may need some offensive attention.

[RichH2]

Going to be a big screw up with the weather, unless they got in today. Of course, they won't be able to go much of anywhere with 20" on the ground....then again, that could result in a great time. (;-)
Looks like the Fla recruits made it. Seems that all the recruits from out of the area came in yesterday afternoon.
Noticed that at least some of the verbals are also on campus. Weather may impact sightseeing. :) but if memory serves.snow days usually result in creative fun on campus. Tray sledding comes to mind. One of the advantages of having a mountain in the middle of campus :)

[van]

we always seem to get a balanced class so there are no positions where #'s are out of balance

for skill, these 3 would be my priorities:

1. DB, losing 3 starters unless someone gets a 5th year

2. DL, we have been thin here for several years now

3. LB, only one underclassman saw any time as a back up last year

O in pretty good shape with a lot of underclassmen getting PT last year and just a couple of OL graduating

[RichH2]

My priorities would be:

1. big mobile LB
2. Tall Dbs who can stick
3. big quick DL

Do you get my drift? Defense wins championships! I cannot say it enough. Plus, we have enough O already for next season. Next year, may need some offensive attention.
Well,verbals have at least one at each.
3. 6'5 265 ***
2. 6'3180 S,6'2 205 S
1. 6'3 246
NG remains to be found as wellas a cover corner.

[carney2]

I’ve been waiting for the Lafayette insiders to contribute, but I guess they’re still mad at LFN and the Patsies for not agreeing with them that the last two or three recruiting classes were “great.” So, now to postulate what a 1-10 team with six consecutive losing seasons on its resume’ might need:

OL – The black hole of Lafayette football for those six losing seasons. Some insiders say that the corner has been turned, but I say that seeing is believing. Can’t have too many big uglies when the head coach is an “establish the run” guy.

QB – The starter and backup are both seniors, and no. 3 is a junior who has yet to get his uniform dirty. Need a legitimate big timer here, not some fog-a-mirror guy who got limited recruiting attention.

DL – No depth in 2015 has been compounded by guys deciding not to hang around for their medical redshirt year and/or not returning at all.

I wouldn’t mind seeing DB thrown in here as well. A supposed former strength has been depleted by graduation.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I’ve been waiting for the Lafayette insiders to contribute, but I guess they’re still mad at LFN and the Patsies for not agreeing with them that the last two or three recruiting classes were “great.”

Based on last year's 1-10 season, it seems like the Patsies would be vindicated.

[Franks Tanks]

Based on last year's 1-10 season, it seems like the Patsies would be vindicated.

Coaching is still a far greater issue than the quality of our players. Until something changes on that front, recruiting semantics are useless for Lafayette.

[RichH2]

Coaching is still a far greater issue than the quality of our players. Until something changes on that front, recruiting semantics are useless for Lafayette.
The only way we have to gauge the quality of a recruit class are results in subsequent years. On that criteria,carney and LFN are right.
FT's point is equally relevant to the status of Pard football,if not to the Patsys. Tavani is an Executive HC. He is as good as his staff. Good staff= Godd HC. That seems to be Pard's more pressing issue. The plague of injuries warrants some slack but there is little to support a claim that Pards would have been more than a .500 club with fewer injuries. Why would results be any better with the same staff in place?
The current class has some very good prospects,some promising projects and quite a few roster fillers.

[Andy]

Based on last year's 1-10 season, it seems like the Patsies would be vindicated.


What "the committee" had to say about Lafayette's RB in the 2011 Patsy Rating:

- In the Committee’s opinion, a Frank Tavani offensive mindset requires a baby bull back; someone who can move the pile (calm down; it’s a figure of speech). The Pards got only 1 RB and no one is describing him as a baby bull. Some of the faithful have peeked at the 3 plays on his posted recruiting video and, if not declaring him the second coming of Gayle Sayers, are moving in that direction. One zealous questioner in Coach Tavani’s signing day chat room asked if this is the next great Lafayette running back. The questioner must have been the kid’s mother because the Committee cannot get past these two facts: (1) he is a clone of what they already have and not an upgrade; and (2) none of the rating services even recognized that the kid exists.///

The kid rushed for 300 yards in the 2014 destruction of Lehigh. He just signed with the Eagles. Nuff said regarding "the committee's" evaluation skills. Talk about vindication....

[van]

What "the committee" had to say about Lafayette's RB in the 2011 Patsy Rating:

- In the Committee’s opinion, a Frank Tavani offensive mindset requires a baby bull back; someone who can move the pile (calm down; it’s a figure of speech). The Pards got only 1 RB and no one is describing him as a baby bull. Some of the faithful have peeked at the 3 plays on his posted recruiting video and, if not declaring him the second coming of Gayle Sayers, are moving in that direction. One zealous questioner in Coach Tavani’s signing day chat room asked if this is the next great Lafayette running back. The questioner must have been the kid’s mother because the Committee cannot get past these two facts: (1) he is a clone of what they already have and not an upgrade; and (2) none of the rating services even recognized that the kid exists.///

The kid rushed for 300 yards in the 2014 destruction of Lehigh. He just signed with the Eagles. Nuff said regarding "the committee's" evaluation skills. Talk about vindication....

after watching him for 4 years, it's really hard to fathom how "none of the rating services even recognized that the kid exists"

but every PL team probably has someone that comes out of nowhere to shine, our boy Brags was pooh-poohed by quite a few and we are pretty glad to have him

[Andy]

after watching him for 4 years, it's really hard to fathom how "none of the rating services even recognized that the kid exists"

but every PL team probably has someone that comes out of nowhere to shine, our boy Brags was pooh-poohed by quite a few and we are pretty glad to have him


van, it's been explained here a million times - if a kid doesn't go to combines (often times money making combines for the major recruiting services), the kid doesn't get rated. Because the "committee," as it was comprised in 2011, wouldn't know a good football player if it tripped over one, the "committee" relies on recruiting service ratings. Thus, a future professional RB, unrated by recruiting sites, was evaluated as a negative in that years Patsies. Bragalone, likewise, was listed but not rated by rivals. Since the Patsies are done by a loyal Lehigh fan, I'd guess that fact was ignored last year. But, yes, good point, Bragalone is a great example of the major Patsy design flaw.

[RichH2]

You are wrong Andy. Both were treated the same under Patsy rules. A player listed gets credit,one that isn't listed doesn't. It has nothing to do with who does the ratings. Patsys do have some validity viewing classes as a whole and looking at the subsequent success of the team. They are not predictive of future individual success. We have all had rated recruits who never see ths field and unrated kids who became A-As.
Six straight losing seasons is not all Frank and his staff but also reflects on the merit of prior recruiting classes. Which factor weighs more for Pards? Dont know but both are relevant to the lack of success.

[ngineer]

As with most team sports, the basis of having a good or strong team is depth. 'pards have been bitten more than usual of late and it is reflected in their record. Every team suffers injuries and some 'devastating' meaning the guy is done for the year requiring a permanent 'step up' from somebody. A case I point, but with a different sport was this weekend when Lehigh trounced Cornell, at Cornell, in wrestling. Yes, Cornell did not have two of their stars in their lineup, and Lehigh was missing one of theirs. But our 'second stringers' were so much better. Hence, a great 'team' victory. The problem the PL is facing with scholarships is the impact on depth. Having rosters of only 85-90 players creates a precarious situation.

[Andy]

Yes, and LC had 50 something at practice last half of the season.

[Andy]

You are wrong Andy. Both were treated the same under Patsy rules. A player listed gets credit,one that isn't listed doesn't. It has nothing to do with who does the ratings. Patsys do have some validity viewing classes as a whole and looking at the subsequent success of the team. They are not predictive of future individual success. We have all had rated recruits who never see ths field and unrated kids who became A-As.
Six straight losing seasons is not all Frank and his staff but also reflects on the merit of prior recruiting classes. Which factor weighs more for Pards? Dont know but both are relevant to the lack of success.

Rich, I've tired of defending the Leopards against the negativists (many of whom with agendas), who just won't listen or accept facts. Tired of pointing out the 2 budget cut affected classes, tired of pointing to the 2009 class of 17 (LU 28, Gate 31), tired of pointing out that in the 5 years prior to the cuts LC won more league games than ANY other PL member, tired of pointing out the 2013 5-1 championship, of pointing out that LC beat every team in the league over the 2 year '13-'14 period, tired of pointing out the injuries and death last season. Frank will be gone in a few years and you can turn your attention to Bucknell who hasnt won a championship in 20 friggin years or HC who hasn't won one since 2009. Loyal Pard fans will humbly suffer the slings and arrows that come with a terrible injury plagued season, but count us out in 2016 at your peril.

[RichH2]

Rich, I've tired of defending the Leopards against the negativists (many of whom with agendas), who just won't listen or accept facts. Tired of pointing out the 2 budget cut affected classes, tired of pointing to the 2009 class of 17 (LU 28, Gate 31), tired of pointing out that in the 5 years prior to the cuts LC won more league games than ANY other PL member, tired of pointing out the 2013 5-1 championship, of pointing out that LC beat every team in the league over the 2 year '13-'14 period, tired of pointing out the injuries and death last season. Frank will be gone in a few years and you can turn your attention to Bucknell who hasnt won a championship in 20 friggin years or HC who hasn't won one since 2009. Loyal Pard fans will humbly suffer the slings and arrows that come with a terrible injury plagued season, but count us out in 2016 at your peril.
All the facts you quote are true and definitely part of the scenario for the last 6 years . Negativity may be unpleasant but understanable. All you are really saying is that there are more reasons for the losing seasons than what Pard fans are complaining about now. Does that improve the current status of the program? Actually think a healthier Pard team will be competitive next year. There is not much difference in the rosters in the PL. Health,coaching and difference makers will tell the tale.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The flip side of the Scheuerman coin is Chase Edmonds, who was *** and pretty much salvaged his Fordham recruiting class. Without him they might have been last place that year - I think they only could sign 11 kids, if memory serves. But with him, they were middle-of-the-pack and was the final piece to a legendary team.

Every recruiting class has Scheuerman's and Edmonds. They also have ** and *** that never see the field, and fog-a-mirror players that play themselves into NFL-caliber players (think Will Rackley). The idea is that these generally cancel each other out. Also, this is for entertainment purposes only. It has nothing to do with what actually ends up happening on the field.

[Franks Tanks]

Rich, I've tired of defending the Leopards against the negativists (many of whom with agendas), who just won't listen or accept facts. Tired of pointing out the 2 budget cut affected classes, tired of pointing to the 2009 class of 17 (LU 28, Gate 31), tired of pointing out that in the 5 years prior to the cuts LC won more league games than ANY other PL member, tired of pointing out the 2013 5-1 championship, of pointing out that LC beat every team in the league over the 2 year '13-'14 period, tired of pointing out the injuries and death last season. Frank will be gone in a few years and you can turn your attention to Bucknell who hasnt won a championship in 20 friggin years or HC who hasn't won one since 2009. Loyal Pard fans will humbly suffer the slings and arrows that come with a terrible injury plagued season, but count us out in 2016 at your peril.

Last year was an anomaly. We have some good young players. This year's freshman class was pretty darn good, and our incoming class is solid as well. I understand the injuries, I understand the budget issues a few years back. My largest issue I see is lack of player development under Frank and his staff. Our OL struggles every year, even when we've had lines filled with multi-year starters who were all league players. Our guys don't seem to develop as well as they do at other league schools, and/or the system we play in doesn't utilize talents. I know I have been negative, but have lost faith that Frank and his staff can develop enough players to put a consistent winner on the field. In 2013 we had a QB who was playing out of his mind, and a RB and WR who are on the very short list of the best to ever play at Lafayette. Credit the kids for pulling out that championship.

I hate to bring this up, but in the past we had coaches that molded hard working kids with somewhat average skills into players. Heffner took kids less talented than the ones we have now, and molded them into a dominating O-line. Our line stuck it to App State years ago. Punched them right in the mouth, cause they were tough and played with good technique. We lost that game because App state was just too athletic and made some plays down the stretch. We used to have an identity. Players developed and played together. These last 5 or 6 years that just hasn't happened, and don't think Frank can turn that around. I am frustrated and say some things I shouldn't. It may take a few years but we will be back.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Last year was an anomaly. We have some good young players. This year's freshman class was pretty darn good, and our incoming class is solid as well. I understand the injuries, I understand the budget issues a few years back. My largest issue I see is lack of player development under Frank and his staff. Our OL struggles every year, even when we've had lines filled with multi-year starters who were all league players. Our guys don't seem to develop as well as they do at other league schools, and/or the system we play in doesn't utilize talents. I know I have been negative, but have lost faith that Frank and his staff can develop enough players to put a consistent winner on the field. In 2013 we had a QB who was playing out of his mind, and a RB and WR who are on the very short list of the best to ever play at Lafayette. Credit the kids for pulling out that championship.

I hate to bring this up, but in the past we had coaches that molded hard working kids with somewhat average skills into players. Heffner took kids less talented than the ones we have now, and molded them into a dominating O-line. Our line stuck it to App State years ago. Punched them right in the mouth, cause they were tough and played with good technique. We lost that game because App state was just too athletic and made some plays down the stretch. We used to have an identity. Players developed and played together. These last 5 or 6 years that just hasn't happened, and don't think Frank can turn that around. I am frustrated and say some things I shouldn't. It may take a few years but we will be back.

You lost that game because of a baloney call on that onsides kick. Never forget that.

[Andy]

Last year was an anomaly. We have some good young players. This year's freshman class was pretty darn good, and our incoming class is solid as well. I understand the injuries, I understand the budget issues a few years back. My largest issue I see is lack of player development under Frank and his staff. Our OL struggles every year, even when we've had lines filled with multi-year starters who were all league players. Our guys don't seem to develop as well as they do at other league schools, and/or the system we play in doesn't utilize talents. I know I have been negative, but have lost faith that Frank and his staff can develop enough players to put a consistent winner on the field. In 2013 we had a QB who was playing out of his mind, and a RB and WR who are on the very short list of the best to ever play at Lafayette. Credit the kids for pulling out that championship.

I hate to bring this up, but in the past we had coaches that molded hard working kids with somewhat average skills into players. Heffner took kids less talented than the ones we have now, and molded them into a dominating O-line. Our line stuck it to App State years ago. Punched them right in the mouth, cause they were tough and played with good technique. We lost that game because App state was just too athletic and made some plays down the stretch. We used to have an identity. Players developed and played together. These last 5 or 6 years that just hasn't happened, and don't think Frank can turn that around. I am frustrated and say some things I shouldn't. It may take a few years but we will be back.

Stan seems to have the horses this year, talented and experienced - Cam, Staudle, both Zats, Kern, Grieser. The incoming group were all signed early and seem to be tough, mobile and huge. If Stan cant get it right this year, well....

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

1-10 is a huge hole to climb out of. Fordham made it to 6-5 in 2012 with the aid of a new coaching staff. Temple went from 1-11 in Rhule's first year to 6-6 in his 2nd season. There's no doubt that Lafayette has talent. But how far can they climb given a reasonably tough schedule? Can they end the streak of losing seasons? Or will 2016 be another losing season but with clear improvement? Would that be enough to quiet the grumblings?

[Bisonoline]

It's that time. If you're a fan, list what you think the team's needs are.

Explain this thread to me. I dont get it?

[carney2]

Explain this thread to me. I dont get it?

You're not from around here, are you? Anyway, each year the Patsy Ratings evaluate the incoming Patriot League recruiting classes. They are based on an ancient and highly controversial set of rules that include a section on "meeting needs." This thread is a call to the faithful to define and prioritize the recruiting needs of each program for inclusion in the ratings.

[Bisonoline]

You're not from around here, are you? Anyway, each year the Patsy Ratings evaluate the incoming Patriot League recruiting classes. They are based on an ancient and highly controversial set of rules that include a section on "meeting needs." This thread is a call to the faithful to define and prioritize the recruiting needs of each program for inclusion in the ratings.

Thank you!!! I now get it. LOL

[Go...gate]

Last year was an anomaly. We have some good young players. This year's freshman class was pretty darn good, and our incoming class is solid as well. I understand the injuries, I understand the budget issues a few years back. My largest issue I see is lack of player development under Frank and his staff. Our OL struggles every year, even when we've had lines filled with multi-year starters who were all league players. Our guys don't seem to develop as well as they do at other league schools, and/or the system we play in doesn't utilize talents. I know I have been negative, but have lost faith that Frank and his staff can develop enough players to put a consistent winner on the field. In 2013 we had a QB who was playing out of his mind, and a RB and WR who are on the very short list of the best to ever play at Lafayette. Credit the kids for pulling out that championship.

I hate to bring this up, but in the past we had coaches that molded hard working kids with somewhat average skills into players. Heffner took kids less talented than the ones we have now, and molded them into a dominating O-line. Our line stuck it to App State years ago. Punched them right in the mouth, cause they were tough and played with good technique. We lost that game because App state was just too athletic and made some plays down the stretch. We used to have an identity. Players developed and played together. These last 5 or 6 years that just hasn't happened, and don't think Frank can turn that around. I am frustrated and say some things I shouldn't. It may take a few years but we will be back.

I'm pulling for Lafayette to turn things around. I can remember when Colgate was struggling in the Ed Sweeney years and it looked like it would never get better, but thanks to Biddle. Dunlap (who came out of retirement) and Vena, we finally got the ship righted. The league needs Lafayette to be competitive again.

[Andy]

I'm pulling for Lafayette to turn things around. I can remember when Colgate was struggling in the Ed Sweeney years and it looked like it would never get better, but thanks to Biddle. Dunlap (who came out of retirement) and Vena, we finally got the ship righted. The league needs Lafayette to be competitive again.

Just for the record - Lafayette won a PL championship in 2013. This year was a disastrous injury (and worse) plagued season for sure. 10-8 in the league the 3 prior seasons.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Just for the record - Lafayette won a PL championship in 2013. This year was a disastrous injury (and worse) plagued season for sure. 10-8 in the league the 3 prior seasons.

Hopefully Lafayette continues their winning tradition this decade xthumbsupx.....xdrunkyx

I'm glad you're not a Temple alum. You'd be making sure Dunphy was given a lifetime contract. Both Dunphy and Tavani should be sent out to pasture after this academic year. Both programs need new blood desperately....

[RichH2]

Just for the record - Lafayette won a PL championship in 2013. This year was a disastrous injury (and worse) plagued season for sure. 10-8 in the league the 3 prior seasons.
Cycles. Few teams can avoid them. I lived thru the 60s and 80s when a winning record was cause for celebration. AD hires the right fit at HC and program heads back up. Falling is meteoric,improving takes years. Key for Lafayette is the next HC.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Cycles. Few teams can avoid them. I lived thru the 60s and 80s when a winning record was cause for celebration. AD hires the right fit at HC and program heads back up. Falling is meteoric,improving takes years. Key for Lafayette is the next HC.

How bad the down cycles are though is dependent upon the tolerance of the administration and expectations of the alums(especially football alums)/fans. Lehigh and Colgate have not had a down cycle as prolonged as Lafayette's since the start of the playoff era. Lehigh's worst run was from '07-'09 but that was bookend by two PL titles. Granted, the '06 team was 'meh" at best despite sharing the title with Lafayette. So that's like 3.5 seasons of blah.

Colgate had consecutive losing seasons once since 1997, '13/'14 and like Lehigh those were bookend by league titles. That was also during a coaching transition....


.

[RichH2]

Can I change my needs post? Seems Andy and I dont agree :)