Patriot League 2016

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Now that the champion has been crowned it's time to officially look towards 2016. Colgate will enter the season as the prohibitive favorite. However, when it's all said and done I think it will be a great race. Colgate, Lehigh, HC and Fordham all need to improve their defense's to varying degree. Especially Lehigh and Fordham.

I think when the magazines and media/coaches vote the preseason poll will look like this....

1. Colgate - They're easily the favorite. The schedule is tough though...
2. Lehigh - Offense could/should be awesome. Can the defense go from horrific to slightly below average? Gate and Fordham come to Goodman...
3. Holy Cross - Pujals returns for his 10th year and Gilmore got back over the .500 hump. Defense and iffy play in key situations have been problems..
4. Fordham - They seemed to be falling back to the back and now they enter 2016 with a new coach. They have a chance if Edmonds stays but a terrible defense and new coach will end their playoff streak imo.
5. Bucknell - I think there's a pretty big dropoff after the first 4. Bison good defense but almost no offense.
6. Georgetown - Showed a lot of fight in 2015. As long Sgarlata is there the Hoya's will be a headache....
7. Lafayette - Coming off a 1-10 season there's not much room left to fall. A lame duck coach and a run of losing seasons doesn't leave much room for optimism...

I think the pressure ramps up of Coen and Gilmore. Both have teams that seem capable of challenging for the league title and the playoffs. I'll be shocked if the PL is not at least a 2 bid league in 2016 so long as the defense's improve.

[Lehigh'98]

Heard Lafayette canned their OC. Can anyone confirm or deny?

[ColgateTD]

After watching NDSU dismantle Jax State it kind of takes the wind out of our sails for any meaningful threat to these 'FBS' type programs. And from the announcers talking it appears both teams will just reload next year with very little drop-off. Why don't such programs just move up to FBS and leave FCS to the rest of us?

I agree with you Owl on your rankings on the PL next season, except I don't feel it's a given that Gate will dominate the league. IMO it will be a horse race and much closer than you prognosticate. I think Lehigh has a very good chance of winning as does Fordham. I see Bucknell as a dark horse that could upset the applecart. I don't see a two bid league however; there will be too much of a bloodbath within the PL to have more than the champion represent us. Just MO.

[clenz]

After watching NDSU dismantle Jax State it kind of takes the wind out of our sails for any meaningful threat to these 'FBS' type programs. And from the announcers talking it appears both teams will just reload next year with very little drop-off. Why don't such programs just move up to FBS and leave FCS to the rest of us?



Why not get better?

[centennial]

Why not get better?
They have academic standards, while the MVFC produces sub-par college graduates.

[Go...gate]

Why not get better?

OK, I'll say it. Some of those kids simply cannot get into a Patriot League school.

[JSUSoutherner]

After watching NDSU dismantle Jax State it kind of takes the wind out of our sails for any meaningful threat to these 'FBS' type programs. And from the announcers talking it appears both teams will just reload next year with very little drop-off. Why don't such programs just move up to FBS and leave FCS to the rest of us?

I may have read this wrong, but it seems like your contradicting yourself. NDSU dismantled us without a plethora of transfers. Yet you want the high traffic transfer teams like JSU to leave for FBS?

[Gate83]

OK, I'll say it. Some of those kids simply cannot get into a Patriot League school.

So I was talking to someone in our administration this Fall, and he was telling me that when the CAA was in trouble a few years back one of their schools was considering joining the Patriot. Then they looked at PL academic requirements and realized that only 1 athlete on their roster would be able to play under PL rules and decided they didn't want to revamp their program to meet our standards. I'm fine with that, and also with the idea we're not likely to beat NDSU or UNI anytime soon.

[PAllen]

So I was talking to someone in our administration this Fall, and he was telling me that when the CAA was in trouble a few years back one of their schools was considering joining the Patriot. Then they looked at PL academic requirements and realized that only 1 athlete on their roster would be able to play under PL rules and decided they didn't want to revamp their program to meet our standards. I'm fine with that, and also with the idea we're not likely to beat NDSU or UNI anytime soon.

Speak for yourself ;)

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

OK, I'll say it. Some of those kids simply cannot get into a Patriot League school.

NDSU is the benchmark right now. The MVFC is damn good but this isn't the SEC where multiple teams are winning championships. The key for the PL schools, and I'm thinking especially of Lehigh, is in the trenches. Lehigh's had a few teams over the years that had the OL and front 7 on D to compete with the best. The 2011 team did not get physically beat up by NDSU. The ability to survive along the defensive front is what allowed them to hang in until late in the 3rd quarter when the Bison put together the death nail drive following Lehigh's failed fake FG attempt. They were a year younger when Lehigh won that ugly battle with UNI. Their front seven beat up on Renne all game.

Lehigh usually has the athletes and skill position players (like the Bison, LU gets fast/athletic white WR's) to compete against these teams but often struggle in the trenches. I'm not sure if the PL schools will ever be able to recruit the type OL/DL on the consistent enough basis to challenge year in and year out. Even CAA private/academic orientated Richmond and Villanova struggle in that department year in and year out. The Spiders had that ridiculous DL in 2008 that they road to the title and 'Nova had Ijalana anchoring their OL in 2009.

[Go...gate]

So I was talking to someone in our administration this Fall, and he was telling me that when the CAA was in trouble a few years back one of their schools was considering joining the Patriot. Then they looked at PL academic requirements and realized that only 1 athlete on their roster would be able to play under PL rules and decided they didn't want to revamp their program to meet our standards. I'm fine with that, and also with the idea we're not likely to beat NDSU or UNI anytime soon.

Amen.

[WTFCollegefootballfan]

After watching NDSU dismantle Jax State it kind of takes the wind out of our sails for any meaningful threat to these 'FBS' type programs. And from the announcers talking it appears both teams will just reload next year with very little drop-off. Why don't such programs just move up to FBS and leave FCS to the rest of us?

I agree with you Owl on your rankings on the PL next season, except I don't feel it's a given that Gate will dominate the league. IMO it will be a horse race and much closer than you prognosticate. I think Lehigh has a very good chance of winning as does Fordham. I see Bucknell as a dark horse that could upset the applecart. I don't see a two bid league however; there will be too much of a bloodbath within the PL to have more than the champion represent us. Just MO.


NDSU just moved up to FCS. FBS move won't happen for several years. NDSU's team was mostly freshman, think about that.

[clenz]

NDSU is the benchmark right now. The MVFC is damn good but this isn't the SEC where multiple teams are winning championships. The key for the PL schools, and I'm thinking especially of Lehigh, is in the trenches. Lehigh's had a few teams over the years that had the OL and front 7 on D to compete with the best. The 2011 team did not get physically beat up by NDSU. The ability to survive along the defensive front is what allowed them to hang in until late in the 3rd quarter when the Bison put together the death nail drive following Lehigh's failed fake FG attempt. They were a year younger when Lehigh won that ugly battle with UNI. Their front seven beat up on Renne all game.

Rennie was, maybe, 60% at kick off of that game....maybe...if we lie to ourselves about how healthy he was.

That 2010 UNI team was an embarrassment to the title of "MVFC Champion. 7-4 regular season and won the title by a game BEFORE THE REGULAR SEASON WAS EVEN INTO IT'S LAST WEEK.

That UNI team loses to this years UNI team by 35, easily

The reason the MVFC isn't winning titles outside of NDSU right now? NDSU. Illinois State was runner up last year. The reality is UNI was the second best team in the playoffs this year.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Rennie was, maybe, 60% at kick off of that game....maybe...if we lie to ourselves about how healthy he was.

That 2010 UNI team was an embarrassment to the title of "MVFC Champion. 7-4 regular season and won the title by a game BEFORE THE REGULAR SEASON WAS EVEN INTO IT'S LAST WEEK.

That UNI team loses to this years UNI team by 35, easily

The reason the MVFC isn't winning titles outside of NDSU right now? NDSU. Illinois State was runner up last year. The reality is UNI was the second best team in the playoffs this year.

That wasn't an all world Lehigh team either. They simply got better as the year went along once the Lum/Spadola connection started clicking. That team was a lot like Colgate this year imo. 2010 was the foundation of a group that would put together consecutive 10-1 seasons in 2011 and 2012. Lehigh has been searching for a front 7 on defense since 2012. Chagani was the best NT Lehigh's ever had imo. Dude was like a FCS version of Chris Zorich....

[Lehigh'98]

Rennie was, maybe, 60% at kick off of that game....maybe...if we lie to ourselves about how healthy he was.

That 2010 UNI team was an embarrassment to the title of "MVFC Champion. 7-4 regular season and won the title by a game BEFORE THE REGULAR SEASON WAS EVEN INTO IT'S LAST WEEK.

That UNI team loses to this years UNI team by 35, easily

The reason the MVFC isn't winning titles outside of NDSU right now? NDSU. Illinois State was runner up last year. The reality is UNI was the second best team in the playoffs this year.

If there's no NDSU, these teams would probably be national champs:
2011 -SHSU
2012 -GSU
2013 -Towson
2014 -ISU
2015 -Jax St or UNI, toss up

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Stanford doesn't ask to retrench and not play Alabama because all the Alabama players wouldn't be able to make it anywhere close to Stanford. They figure out a way to beat their asses.

[DFW HOYA]

I think the pressure ramps up of Coen and Gilmore. Both have teams that seem capable of challenging for the league title and the playoffs. I'll be shocked if the PL is not at least a 2 bid league in 2016 so long as the defense's improve.

It's a one bid league unless Lehigh cleans up in the non-conference. Gilmore is looking at 6-5 but probably not more than that given the HC non-conference (three straight road games to open the season: at Morgan State, at UNH, at Albany) wrapping up with Dartmouth and Harvard. These five schools were a combined 10-3 vs. I-AA non-conference opponents last year.

Early, early rankings:

1. Colgate
2. Lehigh
3. Bucknell
3. Holy Cross
5. Fordham
6. Lafayette
7. Georgetown

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

It's a one bid league unless Lehigh cleans up in the non-conference. Gilmore is looking at 6-5 but probably not more than that given the HC non-conference (three straight road games to open the season: at Morgan State, at UNH, at Albany) wrapping up with Dartmouth and Harvard. These five schools were a combined 10-3 vs. I-AA non-conference opponents last year.

Early, early rankings:

1. Colgate
2. Lehigh
3. Bucknell
3. Holy Cross
5. Fordham
6. Lafayette
7. Georgetown

The league has received two bids 2 out of the last 3 years. Colgate is coming off an impressive run which usually creates some equity heading into the next year. With a watered down playoff format and a PL that should be better I think 2 bids are absolutely in play. Lehigh's OOC schedule is challenging but not overwhelming. 3-2 would put them in a position to get in at 8-3 imo. 4-1 and they'd be in great shape.

HC's schedule is not as difficult as it appears. Morgan State is meh and the Crusaders crushed Albany this past year. UNH will be a test but not unbeatable. I'll be surprised if they don't go 2-1 against those 3....

[Go...gate]

Stanford doesn't ask to retrench and not play Alabama because all the Alabama players wouldn't be able to make it anywhere close to Stanford. They figure out a way to beat their asses.

Not sure what the point is here. Colgate played them, and we play a very strong non-conference schedule as well. We're not backing off to anyone.

[PAllen]

Stanford doesn't ask to retrench and not play Alabama because all the Alabama players wouldn't be able to make it anywhere close to Stanford. They figure out a way to beat their asses.

Stanford hasn't exactly been crushing the Alabama's of the world for a while. Not sure what your point is.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

This was what I was responding to:


After watching NDSU dismantle Jax State it kind of takes the wind out of our sails for any meaningful threat to these 'FBS' type programs. And from the announcers talking it appears both teams will just reload next year with very little drop-off. Why don't such programs just move up to FBS and leave FCS to the rest of us?

[Gate83]

Stanford is 0-1-1 vs Alabama historically, haven't won a national title since 1926. Compete hard in their conference, keep their standards high... sounds familiar. Doubt TD was really advocating for anything to change, just recognizing there is a difference between the way we do business vs. the "FBS type" programs. Makes it that much sweeter when we do win (hello, JMU!)... which isn't likely to be all that often.

[clenz]

Stanford is 0-1-1 vs Alabama historically, haven't won a national title since 1926. Compete hard in their conference, keep their standards high... sounds familiar. Doubt TD was really advocating for anything to change, just recognizing there is a difference between the way we do business vs. the "FBS type" programs. Makes it that much sweeter when we do win (hello, JMU!)... which isn't likely to be all that often.
Stanford is 74-20 since Jim Harbaugh got half the roster to be his players (2009). In those 7 years they have 5 11+ win seasons. Played in 5 of the most prestigous bowl games in the nation - including wins in the Orange, Rose and Fiesta. They have 4 PAC12 titles (3x Championship game winner), multiple Heisman finalists, a bunch of NFL draft picks...30 players currently in the NFL (guys like Doug Baldwin, David DeCastro, Zach Ertz, Coby Fleener, Tyler Gaffney, Andrew Luck, Richard Sherman, Stepfan Taylor, Levine Toilolo, and David Parry), etc...

Stanford finally got a coach that bought into the "get better" line of thinking and it's taken off like crazy.

To quote recently passed Iowa Hawkeye, Iowa native, and Super Bowl champion Tyler Sash - Get better, not bitter.

[Go Green]

Stanford finally got an admissions director that bought into the "get better" line of thinking and it's taken off like crazy.



Fixed that for you. Here is the pre-Harbaugh admissions director:

http://www.sfgate.com/sports/article/HIGHER-STANDARDS-Stanford-teams-finding-it-s-2589894.php

I agree that the new guy isn't allowing Alabama-type admissions levels--no one would have believed that Forest Gump attended Stanford. But its definitely more lenient than the pre-Harbaugh levels.

[Gangtackle11]

In the end the players from schools like those in the Patriot have it right:

1. Compete for a National Championship (puncher's chance of winning)

2. Get a great education from a prestigious college/university.

A great % of FCS players need the latter to have a chance at a fulfilling life.

Not a slight to schools like NDSU or Jax State, in the end the Patriot League has the right FCS formula if you ask me.

Well done Red Raiders. Enjoyed watching you play in post season albeit at the expense of 2 CAA teams. Looking forward to playing Lehigh & Lafayette in the fall.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Fixed that for you. Here is the pre-Harbaugh admissions director:

http://www.sfgate.com/sports/article/HIGHER-STANDARDS-Stanford-teams-finding-it-s-2589894.php

I agree that the new guy isn't allowing Alabama-type admissions levels--no one would have believed that Forest Gump attended Stanford. But its definitely more lenient than the pre-Harbaugh levels.

The lowlight of the prior admissions director is the Cardinal team that took the field in their loss to UC Davis.

- - - Updated - - -


In the end the players from schools like those in the Patriot have it right:

1. Compete for a National Championship (puncher's chance of winning)

2. Get a great education from a prestigious college/university.

A great % of FCS players need the latter to have a chance at a fulfilling life.

Not a slight to schools like NDSU or Jax State, in the end the Patriot League has the right FCS formula if you ask me.

Well done Red Raiders. Enjoyed watching you play in post season albeit at the expense of 2 CAA teams. Looking forward to playing Lehigh & Lafayette in the fall.

+1. I can live with puncher's chance of winning.

[JSUSoutherner]

Fixed that for you. Here is the pre-Harbaugh admissions director:

http://www.sfgate.com/sports/article/HIGHER-STANDARDS-Stanford-teams-finding-it-s-2589894.php

I agree that the new guy isn't allowing Alabama-type admissions levels--no one would have believed that Forest Gump attended Stanford. But its definitely more lenient than the pre-Harbaugh levels.
Too bad their administration still hasn't fixed their embarrassment of a band.

[DFW HOYA]

In the end the players from schools like those in the Patriot have it right:
1. Compete for a National Championship (puncher's chance of winning)
2. Get a great education from a prestigious college/university.
A great % of FCS players need the latter to have a chance at a fulfilling life.
Not a slight to schools like NDSU or Jax State, in the end the Patriot League has the right FCS formula if you ask me.


In the end the schools like those in the Patriot have some things wrong, too:

1. An artificial admissions firewall;
2. A restriction against redshirting to protect some schools at the expense of the others; and
3. An unaddressed scholarship gap where one school is not going to be competitive

[Gater]

Not a fan of using academic standards as an excuse for losing games. The PL is three years into scholarships. Colgate just made it three rounds into the playoffs with a very young team. Let's see how teams with 60 scholarships before declaring that the league can't compete.

Also, teams have bad games. NDSU made plays in the national championship game. JSU didn't. Make plays and don't make mistakes and good things happen. Colgate didn't make any plays in its final game. SHSU didn't make any plays in its final game. JSU didn't make any plays in its final game. Doesn't mean any of those teams were incapable of winning their final game.

As for next year, Colgate has 20 starters returning--including 11 on defense. (The * is that that includes two of the defensive starters from 2014 who were redshirted last year because of injury.) Colgate should be the favorite. Of course, every PL team was within a score of Colgate in the 4th quarter of their respective games so it's easy to see why each team would be optimistic. Colgate should be better than they were last year but so should the rest of the league--including a young Fordham team with a ton of skill players returning (even if they lose 22). Colgate's first three games are at Syracuse, Yale, and Richmond. (With an open date in there as of now.) Hopefully, Colgate can chalk up three easy wins and have some momentum going into league play.

[LeopardBall10]

Heard Lafayette canned their OC. Can anyone confirm or deny? Where did you hear that? There has been no indication from the school of any changes to the staff and the Lafayette board is silent. As far as I know Coach Fein is in San Antonio with every other coach in the country. Although it would be just like Lafayette to fire a coach late, after the convention and leave both parties with no real options.

[jimbo65]

Colgate's first three games are at Syracuse, Yale, and Richmond. (With an open date in there as of now.) Hopefully, Colgate can chalk up three easy wins and have some momentum going into league play.
You are writing tongue in cheek, I hope, if not change meds.

[Pards Rule]

In the end the players from schools like those in the Patriot have it right:

1. Compete for a National Championship (puncher's chance of winning)

2. Get a great education from a prestigious college/university.

A great % of FCS players need the latter to have a chance at a fulfilling life.

Not a slight to schools like NDSU or Jax State, in the end the Patriot League has the right FCS formula if you ask me.

Well done Red Raiders. Enjoyed watching you play in post season albeit at the expense of 2 CAA teams. Looking forward to playing Lehigh & Lafayette in the fall.

Will be my first game at Nova!

[Go...gate]

In the end the players from schools like those in the Patriot have it right:

1. Compete for a National Championship (puncher's chance of winning)

2. Get a great education from a prestigious college/university.

A great % of FCS players need the latter to have a chance at a fulfilling life.

Not a slight to schools like NDSU or Jax State, in the end the Patriot League has the right FCS formula if you ask me.

Well done Red Raiders. Enjoyed watching you play in post season albeit at the expense of 2 CAA teams. Looking forward to playing Lehigh & Lafayette in the fall.

Well said and many thanks.

[Go...gate]

In the end the schools like those in the Patriot have some things wrong, too:

1. An artificial admissions firewall;
2. A restriction against redshirting to protect some schools at the expense of the others; and
3. An unaddressed scholarship gap where one school is not going to be competitive

Can this be addressed without Georgetown giving scholarships?

[Franks Tanks]

Can this be addressed without Georgetown giving scholarships?

Frank Tavani can coach every other team in the league. Georgetown would win the championship every year.

[CFBfan]

Can this be addressed without Georgetown giving scholarships?

NO! (imo) it is a Hoya issue NOT a PL issue

[DFW HOYA]

Can this be addressed without Georgetown giving scholarships?

Absolutely, but the PL leadership will have to consider the following:

1. Eliminate banding, at least for GU. As long as the students are in the range and above the PL floor, it shouldn't matter whether they have a 1300 or a 1590.

2. Allow Georgetown to issue a National Letter of Intent. Because it does not offer athletic scholarships, other schools are free to poach GU's recruits because it cannot bind any commitments.

3. Let Georgetown recruit above the PL's arbitrary 85-man roster limit.

None of these three beat a free ride to Georgetown, but that isn't happening while Georgetown is in the PL.

[CFBfan]

Absolutely, but the PL leadership will have to consider the following:

1. Eliminate banding, at least for GU. As long as the students are in the range and above the PL floor, it shouldn't matter whether they have a 1300 or a 1590.

2. Allow Georgetown to issue a National Letter of Intent. Because it does not offer athletic scholarships, other schools are free to poach GU's recruits because it cannot bind any commitments.

3. Let Georgetown recruit above the PL's arbitrary 85-man roster limit.

None of these three beat a free ride to Georgetown, but that isn't happening while Georgetown is in the PL.

is #2 a PL restriction??? #1 eliminating banding shouldn't be on a selective basis but for the entire league (imo). #3 with a max od 60 scholarship players on any roster the "other 25" would not be scholly at any PL school, if the limit is lifter why not lift it for all schools.

[Go...gate]

Absolutely, but the PL leadership will have to consider the following:

1. Eliminate banding, at least for GU. As long as the students are in the range and above the PL floor, it shouldn't matter whether they have a 1300 or a 1590. Fordham also would like to do this, I believe.

2. Allow Georgetown to issue a National Letter of Intent. Because it does not offer athletic scholarships, other schools are free to poach GU's recruits because it cannot bind any commitments. Makes practical sense to me.

3. Let Georgetown recruit above the PL's arbitrary 85-man roster limit. The PL should relax roster limits generally, IMO.

None of these three beat a free ride to Georgetown, but that isn't happening while Georgetown is in the PL.

I would like to see GU stay in the PL and succeed. If this will help, why not?

[carney2]

Will be my first game at Nova!

The published schedule has Villanova visiting Easton on September 24th. Does it really matter where this game is played?

[carney2]

We're over 40 posts into this thread and not one Lafayette poster has taken exception to TU owl's original comment that the Pards are the cow flop on the shoes of the Patriot League. I'm not breaking the momentum and I'm not cleaning any shoes. On the plus side, they only need two wins to be 100% improved.

[carney2]

Taking issue with one thing that TU owl said in his original post, he called Tavani a "lame duck coach." For only the 10th, 20th, 50th time, whatever, I repeat NOWHERE IS IT WRITTEN THAT THIS IS FRANK TAVANI'S LAST YEAR ! ! ! ! ! True (or most people believe) that his contract expires at the end of the 2016 season. And, true, that he has had some health issues. But NOT TRUE that he is automatically gone at the end of the year. It may be logical to TU owl and others that he won't come back for more, but he's only 63, so who knows. If, for whatever reason, he wants to keep going, an extension is his for the asking. There is no lame Frankosaur until Tavani says there is.

[Bill]

There is no lame Frankosaur until Tavani says there is.

You can't kill a Frankosaur; you can only try to contain one.

[LeopardBall10]

You can't kill a Frankosaur; you can only try to contain one.

And we all know how that ends up.
http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=22115&stc=1

I feel like Carney is Muldoon from Jurassic Park just yelling, "Shoot her! Shooooooot her!" as everyone around the cage is eaten and left for dead.

[KPSUL]

So I was talking to someone in our administration this Fall, and he was telling me that when the CAA was in trouble a few years back one of their schools was considering joining the Patriot. Then they looked at PL academic requirements and realized that only 1 athlete on their roster would be able to play under PL rules and decided they didn't want to revamp their program to meet our standards. I'm fine with that, and also with the idea we're not likely to beat NDSU or UNI anytime soon.

Without some context, this statement is impossible to believe. What are the PL Academic standards you refer to? Current GPA? Admissions criteria such as SAT scores and HS class standing? On either count it is somewhere between hubris and total b.s. that only one player from an 80+ roster of any CAA team would meet Patriot League academic standards for athletes.

Here is an interview with one of the future Rhodes Scholars Colgate and at least one other PL school recruited heavily from the class of 2014:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LY49qN7eXts

[RichH2]

Perhaps a tad relevant to PL next year,saw Edmonds decided to stay at Fordham. :)

[carney2]

I feel like Carney is Muldoon from Jurassic Park just yelling, "Shoot her! Shooooooot her!" as everyone around the cage is eaten and left for dead.

Not to worry. It is rumored that yet another "great" recruiting class will be announced in a few weeks. All is well in Lizard Land.

[carney2]

Back to the topic at hand - TU owl predicts that Lafayette will be picked dead last in the preseason PL poll. Possibly/probably. Just a heads up however that the 2015 Leopards were injury central, with just about every position except QB seriously affected. On the theory that lightning doesn't strike twice, the Pards should be improved this year for that reason, if no others. What does that mean? They should surprise some folks along the way, but are probably not good enough to post a winning record with their killer OOC schedule. Not a given bottom feeder and not a walk over for any Patriot League team.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Back to the topic at hand - TU owl predicts that Lafayette will be picked dead last in the preseason PL poll. Possibly/probably. Just a heads up however that the 2015 Leopards were injury central, with just about every position except QB seriously affected. On the theory that lightning doesn't strike twice, the Pards should be improved this year for that reason, if no others. What does that mean? They should surprise some folks along the way, but are probably not good enough to post a winning record with their killer OOC schedule. Not a given bottom feeder and not a walk over for any Patriot League team.

What does the 2016 Pard schedule look like? I know you have Army on October 15th.

[LeopardBall10]

What does the 2016 Pard schedule look like? I know you have Army on October 15th.

SEPTEMBER
3 at Central Conn. State
10 DELAWARE
17 at Princeton
24 Villanova
OCTOBER
1 HOLY CROSS
8 at Fordham
15 at Army
22 at Bucknell
29 GEORGETOWN
NOVEMBER
5 Open
12 at Colgate
19 LEHIGH

---------------------------------
Edit: I know Carney has posted this schedule without the Nova game. I found this posted on the Lafayette board but cannot confirm that game is actually on the schedule.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

SEPTEMBER
3 at Central Conn. State
10 DELAWARE
17 at Princeton
24 Villanova
OCTOBER
1 HOLY CROSS
8 at Fordham
15 at Army
22 at Bucknell
29 GEORGETOWN
NOVEMBER
5 Open
12 at Colgate
19 LEHIGH

Pards are in same boat Lehigh was last year. Utterly critical that they head out of New Britain with a "W", which gives them a chance vs. Delaware and Princeton. If they can't get that done, they could be staring at 0-for-September. Can't say enough about the meaning of the early W for Lehigh last season vs. CCSU. It wasn't the prettiest win, but the victory really set up everything after.

[Bill]

Is it too early for me to predict 3-8 with that schedule?

[LeopardBall10]

Is it too early for me to predict 3-8 with that schedule?
Nope, I think most Lafayette posters are probably right around there with you. Even the most ambitious of us think .500 is a high water mark.

[Bill]

Nope, I think most Lafayette posters are probably right around there with you. Even the most ambitious of us think .500 is a high water mark.

I wasn't even trying to be a wise a$$. Funny thing is, I think one of their 3 (maybe 4?) wins could easily come at Lehigh's expense:( . Of course, next November is quite a long way off.

[Franks Tanks]

Is it too early for me to predict 3-8 with that schedule?

3 is probably best case scenario. Frank could possible put up another one win season, which means if he completes 2 or 3 more 1 win seasons our AD may start thinking about a coaching change.

[carney2]

Utterly critical that they head out of New Britain with a "W", which gives them a chance vs. Delaware and Princeton.

C'mon, LFN, despite your educational deficiencies you have at least been around long enough to KNOW that the chances against Princeton are, at best, zero.

[carney2]

Is it too early for me to predict 3-8 with that schedule?

I look at the schedule and ask where are the potential wins? First up is CCSU, and then ... well, ... maybe ... Most Patriot Leaguers immediately look at non-scholarship Georgetown and drool. The Pards however, were blown out by the Hoyas this past year.

The Pards have unfortunately hit the trifecta - over-scheduled, under-manned, and badly coached.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

C'mon, LFN, despite your educational deficiencies you have at least been around long enough to KNOW that the chances against Princeton are, at best, zero.

I didn't say it was a great chance.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

I look at the schedule and ask where are the potential wins? First up is CCSU, and then ... well, ... maybe ... Most Patriot Leaguers immediately look at non-scholarship Georgetown and drool. The Pards however, were blown out by the Hoyas this past year.

The Pards have unfortunately hit the trifecta - over-scheduled, under-manned, and badly coached.

The schedule really isn't that difficult. With a decent team Delaware, CCSU and Princeton are easily winnable games. Army should be a competitive FBS game with 'Nova being the reach game. I don't think it's more difficult than Lehigh's. Colgate has the hardest OOC slate by far imo. Those first 3 are brutal. I really like HC's and Lehigh's OOC schedule for next year. Good balance without any real layups and no mercy games...

Lafayette - @ CCSU, Delaware, @ Princeton, Villanova @ Army
Lehigh - Monmouth, @ Villanova, @ Penn, Princeton, @ Yale
Colgate - @ Syracuse, @ Yale @ Richmond, Cornell ( have they secured a 5th OOC game?)
Holy Cross - @ Morgan State, @ UNH, @ Albany, Dartmouth, Harvard
Bucknell -??
Fordham - @ Navy, Elizabeth City State University (WTH?), Penn, @ Monmouth, Yale
Georgetown - ??

[Go...gate]

The schedule really isn't that difficult. With a decent team Delaware, CCSU and Princeton are easily winnable games. Army should be a competitive FBS game with 'Nova being the reach game. I don't think it's more difficult than Lehigh's. Colgate has the hardest OOC slate by far imo. Those first 3 are brutal. I really like HC's and Lehigh's OOC schedule for next year. Good balance without any real layups and no mercy games...

Lafayette - @ CCSU, Delaware, @ Princeton, Villanova @ Army
Lehigh - Monmouth, @ Villanova, @ Penn, Princeton, @ Yale
Colgate - @ Syracuse, @ Yale @ Richmond, Cornell ( have they secured a 5th OOC game?)
Holy Cross - @ Morgan State, @ UNH, @ Albany, Dartmouth, Harvard
Bucknell -??
Fordham - @ Navy, Elizabeth City State University (WTH?), Penn, @ Monmouth, Yale
Georgetown - ??

Alma mater of Jethro Pugh of the Cowboys.

[RichH2]

Gate and Fordham likely preseason picks next season. Lehigh likely will have the best O and if they find some D could be in the hunt. Cross and Bucknell look to be middle of the pack at best. Pards are a wild card. They will return most of the huge injury list from this season. That together with the game time their frosh got could present a competitive team. Caveat for Pards and Gate. Both need to survive their OOC. Hoyas will have their continuing issues with lack of depth.

[heath]

SEPTEMBER
3 at Central Conn. State
10 DELAWARE
17 at Princeton
24 Villanova
OCTOBER
1 HOLY CROSS
8 at Fordham
15 at Army
22 at Bucknell
29 GEORGETOWN
NOVEMBER
5 Open
12 at Colgate
19 LEHIGH

---------------------------------
Edit: I know Carney has posted this schedule without the Nova game. I found this posted on the Lafayette board but cannot confirm that game is actually on the schedule.
Sept 3. Oct 29. and Nov 5 look like the best chances to celebrate. Glad to see Army on your schedule too. Colgate has Cuse,(Ball ST and Navy prior)which is another good FBS game. Why didn't Lehigh grow a pair sooner and schedule up?:(

[CFBfan]

Gate and Fordham likely preseason picks next season. Lehigh likely will have the best O and if they find some D could be in the hunt. Cross and Bucknell look to be middle of the pack at best. Pards are a wild card. They will return most of the huge injury list from this season. That together with the game time their frosh got could present a competitive team. Caveat for Pards and Gate. Both need to survive their OOC. Hoyas will have their continuing issues with lack of depth.

Gate returns 9 starters on an O that outscored LU (and virtually their entire D) why will LU likely be better?

[UNHWildcat18]

Sept 3. Oct 29. and Nov 5 look like the best chances to celebrate. Glad to see Army on your schedule too. Colgate has Cuse,(Ball ST and Navy prior)which is another good FBS game. Why didn't Lehigh grow a pair sooner and schedule up?:(

CCSU beats Lafayette September 3rd. Calling it now

[RichH2]

[QUOTE=CFBfan;2317944]Gate returns 9 starters on an O that outscored LU (and virtually their entire D) why will LU likely be better?[/ Gate likely the favorite. Yup you barely outscored us. Our D was not the true measure of any O that played us. Our D about the worst in FCS much less just the PL. IF we have even a mediochre D we can be in the hunt. We return 8 starters on 0,including all our WRs,RBs,QBs.
Gonna be a good game :)

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

[QUOTE=CFBfan;2317944]Gate returns 9 starters on an O that outscored LU (and virtually their entire D) why will LU likely be better?[/ Gate likely the favorite. Yup you barely outscored us. Our D was not the true measure of any O that played us. Our D about the worst in FCS much less just the PL. IF we have even a mediochre D we can be in the hunt. We return 8 starters on 0,including all our WRs,RBs,QBs.
Gonna be a good game :)

I think Lehigh's offense is a little better than Gate's personnel wise. No matter who's better I think both units will be among the best in all of FCS next year. Gate definitely had the much better D last year thus the league championship.

Fordham's defense was honestly just as bad as Lehigh's. The numbers for both units are horrific. The second half of Holy Cross and Lafayette were especially ugly for Lehigh because they played like it didn't matter. Those games never should have been that close. Fordham had a couple games like that too iirc...

Lehigh PA
CCSU 14
JMU 55
Penn 21
Princeton 52
Yale 27
Bucknell 10
Fordham 59
Holy Cross 38
Georgetown 28
Colgate 49
Lafayette 35

Fordham
Army 35
Villanova 14
Columbia 24
Monmouth 31
Lafayette 7
Penn 45
Holy Cross 41
Lehigh 42
Colgate 31
Bucknell 16
Georgetown 31
Chattanooga 50

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Sept 3. Oct 29. and Nov 5 look like the best chances to celebrate. Glad to see Army on your schedule too. Colgate has Cuse,(Ball ST and Navy prior)which is another good FBS game. Why didn't Lehigh grow a pair sooner and schedule up?:(

I have no trouble with Lehigh shying away from FBS games right now. They've put together some really good schedules lately, minus 2012, without adding a FBS opponent. Navy will be here soon enough. I really like Lehigh's and Holy Cross's schedules this year. Right balance imo...

Colgate has yet to compete in any of their FBS games. I don't see that changing this year when they face Syracuse and their damn good new coach Dino Babers.....

[Bill]

Remember , there's an entire generation of Colgate alumni that actually considers Syracuse a rival....I know, my dad is one :) there's more going on with that gAme than just fcs vs. fbs....

[Fordham]

The schedule really isn't that difficult. With a decent team Delaware, CCSU and Princeton are easily winnable games. Army should be a competitive FBS game with 'Nova being the reach game. I don't think it's more difficult than Lehigh's. Colgate has the hardest OOC slate by far imo. Those first 3 are brutal. I really like HC's and Lehigh's OOC schedule for next year. Good balance without any real layups and no mercy games...

Lafayette - @ CCSU, Delaware, @ Princeton, Villanova @ Army
Lehigh - Monmouth, @ Villanova, @ Penn, Princeton, @ Yale
Colgate - @ Syracuse, @ Yale @ Richmond, Cornell ( have they secured a 5th OOC game?)
Holy Cross - @ Morgan State, @ UNH, @ Albany, Dartmouth, Harvard
Bucknell -??
Fordham - @ Navy, Elizabeth City State University (WTH?), Penn, @ Monmouth, Yale
Georgetown - ??
Elizabeth City was a last minute sub after Columbia pussed out on our contract

[RichH2]

I have no trouble with Lehigh shying away from FBS games right now. They've put together some really good schedules lately, minus 2012, without adding a FBS opponent. Navy will be here soon enough. I really like Lehigh's and Holy Cross's schedules this year. Right balance imo...

Colgate has yet to compete in any of their FBS games. I don't see that changing this year when they face Syracuse and their damn good new coach Dino Babers.....
Think Joe made a good faith effort to get some meaningful FBS games. PSU was a done deal until sanctions were lifted and Franklin came in. Joe has said he's not looking for just money games. He wants games with teams that actually has some relevance to Lehigh besides money. While I would like to see FBS on the schedule,cant disagree with his more selective approach. Money is nice but given our D over the last three years,we are not ready to face FBS teams. Joe has given Andy time to build his squad for our game with Navy in 18. OOC this coming season may not be sexy but it is not a cupcake parade.

[Gate83]

Remember , there's an entire generation of Colgate alumni that actually considers Syracuse a rival....I know, my dad is one :) there's more going on with that gAme than just fcs vs. fbs....

I'm not old enough to presume Syracuse as a rival, but am part of the tradition that Gate plays up. In the 80's it was always part of our recruiting pitch to the athlete who was going to have to walk on at the big D1's; come to Colgate, get the education and a chance to beat State U. We played Penn State, Syracuse and Temple twice, Rutgers three times while I was an undergrad and while we didn't win many of those games (beat Temple once), they were definitely the games players and fans were most excited about. Think it's great that scholarships and getting rid of the Ivy-lite mindset are letting us recapture some of that tradition.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Think Joe made a good faith effort to get some meaningful FBS games. PSU was a done deal until sanctions were lifted and Franklin came in. Joe has said he's not looking for just money games. He wants games with teams that actually has some relevance to Lehigh besides money. While I would like to see FBS on the schedule,cant disagree with his more selective approach. Money is nice but given our D over the last three years,we are not ready to face FBS teams. Joe has given Andy time to build his squad for our game with Navy in 18. OOC this coming season may not be sexy but it is not a cupcake parade.

Penn State would have been over the top!

I'd like to see them play more games in Ohio. They've recruited the state with good success. Kent State, Ohio and Akron are all reasonable drives for Eastern PA. Miami(OH) would be cool given their beautiful campus and academic centric reputation. BGSU wouldn't be bad either. Toledo would likely be a slaughter most years.

FBS interest for me
1. Army
2. UVA
3. Rutgers
4. Ohio
5. UConn

[carney2]

The schedule really isn't that difficult. I don't think it's more difficult than Lehigh's.

Not saying it's more difficult than anyone's. It IS, however, way too difficult for this hangdog program at this point in time.

[RichH2]

Penn State would have been over the top!

I'd like to see them play more games in Ohio. They've recruited the state with good success. Kent State, Ohio and Akron are all reasonable drives for Eastern PA. Miami(OH) would be cool given their beautiful campus and academic centric reputation. BGSU wouldn't be bad either. Toledo would likely be a slaughter most years.

FBS interest for me
1. Army
2. UVA
3. Rutgers
4. Ohio
5. UConn
Agreed. We have history with all of them,cept Ohio. MAC ,other than being a main recruiting opponent ,holds little interest for me. Add Temple and a perfect list :)

[carney2]

CCSU beats Lafayette September 3rd. Calling it now

Wouldn't be a surprise either way given 2015 results (CCSU = 4-7, LC = 1-10). For Lafayette however, a loss here and they might as well cancel the rest of the season.

[RichH2]

Wouldn't be a surprise either way given 2015 results (CCSU = 4-7, LC = 1-10). For Lafayette however, a loss here and they might as well cancel the rest of the season.
Dont believe Pards will be totally hopeless. You will get back almost all of your 2 deep,pre-injury onslaught. Frosh got a lot of PT. A lot depends on player outlook. If last season serves as motivation,not a millstone, they can be competitive. If they get hammered OOC, any confidence and motivation they had starting season may dissipate.

[heath]

Agreed. We have history with all of them,cept Ohio. MAC ,other than being a main recruiting opponent ,holds little interest for me. Add Temple and a perfect list :)
UVa played Lehigh back in the 70s but will never happen again as they are bound with the CAA(UR/W&M) for in state games.

[heath]

I have no trouble with Lehigh shying away from FBS games right now. They've put together some really good schedules lately, minus 2012, without adding a FBS opponent. Navy will be here soon enough. I really like Lehigh's and Holy Cross's schedules this year. Right balance imo...

Colgate has yet to compete in any of their FBS games. I don't see that changing this year when they face Syracuse and their damn good new coach Dino Babers.....
Gate may have not competed,but made them a much better team in the long run. When you see tough competition to start the season....the PL schedule becomes very doable. 0-3 to start last season = ring and playoffs. STOP BEING SCARED....the players want these games. Nice job for someones AD to schedule them.

[Go...gate]

Gate may have not competed,but made them a much better team in the long run. When you see tough competition to start the season....the PL schedule becomes very doable. 0-3 to start last season = ring and playoffs. STOP BEING SCARED....the players want these games. Nice job for someones AD to schedule them.

+1

[PAllen]

Is it too early for me to predict 3-8 with that schedule?

Nope, you'll have at least 7 losses. Eight or Nine more than likely.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Gate may have not competed,but made them a much better team in the long run. When you see tough competition to start the season....the PL schedule becomes very doable. 0-3 to start last season = ring and playoffs. STOP BEING SCARED....the players want these games. Nice job for someones AD to schedule them.

I don't see their scheduling as being scared in any sense of the way. Opening the 2014 season with JMU and UNH is not shying away. They've been scheduling quality CAA teams the last 6 years on a regular basis. Playing Villanova, UNH and JMU prepare you for the playoffs too.

I don't like scheduling losses because winning is hard enough. Plus, there's plenty of examples of over scheduling hurting too. We've seen plenty of cases of that in FCS over the years. There's a fine line when it comes to scheduling imo. Overall, Lehigh has done a good job minus one year.

[RichH2]

Gate may have not competed,but made them a much better team in the long run. When you see tough competition to start the season....the PL schedule becomes very doable. 0-3 to start last season = ring and playoffs. STOP BEING SCARED....the players want these games. Nice job for someones AD to schedule them.
Its not as if Joe hasn't tried. Being better prepared to play FBS is not the equivalent of being scared. Lehigh certainly not lining up cupcakes. Agree with his desire to schedule FBS that have some meaning other than money
. Like most fans,I am looking forward to FBS challenges. Seems that Joe may be looking for one every 4 years. Hope we raise that to every other year.

[ngineer]

It's difficult scheduling several years out. You want certain opponents, but schedules have to line up. One thing that hurts the PL in playing FBS, especially big FBS schools, is redshirting. That extra year of maturity and significant growth for many results in some physical mismatches that can be ugly and unduly hazardous. The preference to play such schools about a month into the season so that your 18 and 19 year olds have had some experience acclimating to the speed and size at the college level. I know when I played, that difference my first August in 1970 was a real eye-opener, (as well as bell-ringer).

[DFW HOYA]

Wouldn't be a surprise either way given 2015 results (CCSU = 4-7, LC = 1-10). For Lafayette however, a loss here and they might as well cancel the rest of the season.


Georgetown-Lafayette (Oct. 29) figures to be a battle of teams on extended losing streaks.

Previous four games for LC before Oct. 29: Holy Cross, at Army, at Fordham, at Bucknell
Previous four games for GU before Oct. 29: at Harvard, Princeton, Lehigh, at Fordham

[Doc QB]

Think Joe made a good faith effort to get some meaningful FBS games. PSU was a done deal until sanctions were lifted and Franklin came in. Joe has said he's not looking for just money games. He wants games with teams that actually has some relevance to Lehigh besides money. While I would like to see FBS on the schedule,cant disagree with his more selective approach. Money is nice but given our D over the last three years,we are not ready to face FBS teams. Joe has given Andy time to build his squad for our game with Navy in 18. OOC this coming season may not be sexy but it is not a cupcake parade.

No interest in playing penn state. Aside from Duke hoops fans, there is no less tolerable fanbase than PSU. Getting pasted by a middling big ten squad and the resultant, condescending chirping from those insufferable d-bags (many who are dear friends) would put me on suicide watch. I'm glad we are separate and won't cross paths. Keeps the gun barrel pointed away from my temple.

[Lehigh'98]

No interest in playing penn state. Aside from Duke hoops fans, there is no less tolerable fanbase than PSU. Getting pasted by a middling big ten squad and the resultant, condescending chirping from those insufferable d-bags (many who are dear friends) would put me on suicide watch. I'm glad we are separate and won't cross paths. Keeps the gun barrel pointed away from my temple.

Couldn't agree more. They are the closest fan base to a cult that exists in sports.

[KPSUL]

Any thoughts on how Holy Cross looks at the start of the 2016 season?

[RichH2]

Purple,very Purple :)
A work in progress. Less of a one trick pony. Pujols entering senior year is a superb and very dangerous QB. Cross now has more weapons and speed at WR and RB. Pretty good skills at LB and DB and finally some speed at the back end. Most their speed are underclassmen. OL and DL need help.

[Go...gate]

No interest in playing penn state. Aside from Duke hoops fans, there is no less tolerable fanbase than PSU. Getting pasted by a middling big ten squad and the resultant, condescending chirping from those insufferable d-bags (many who are dear friends) would put me on suicide watch. I'm glad we are separate and won't cross paths. Keeps the gun barrel pointed away from my temple.

Very understandable, and the fan base has closed ranks since the Sandusky/Paterno scandal. If anything, they are even more insufferable than before. I was a huge Penn State fan up until that time, but no longer.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

No interest in playing penn state. Aside from Duke hoops fans, there is no less tolerable fanbase than PSU. Getting pasted by a middling big ten squad and the resultant, condescending chirping from those insufferable d-bags (many who are dear friends) would put me on suicide watch. I'm glad we are separate and won't cross paths. Keeps the gun barrel pointed away from my temple.

Now, imagine Lehigh beating PSU. Penn State fans would never chirp at you ever again. Pitt fans and Big 10 fans would love Lehigh forever. I take that risk.

[heath]

2016 should show parity in the PL. Look at Colgate 2015. Their last 5 PL games were won by an average of 5 points. I'm not sure Fordham will drop off as much as some think. Breiner has been a great OC the last 4 seasons and will make a very good young HC. Most PL teams will have to out score their opponent because defenses are not very good,that is why 3-4 teams will have a chance. As far as OOC games, we should focus on teams from the MAC(east) and USA(east).

[RichH2]

2016 should show parity in the PL. Look at Colgate 2015. Their last 5 PL games were won by an average of 5 points. I'm not sure Fordham will drop off as much as some think. Breiner has been a great OC the last 4 seasons and will make a very good young HC. Most PL teams will have to out score their opponent because defenses are not very good,that is why 3-4 teams will have a chance. As far as OOC games, we should focus on teams from the MAC(east) and USA(east).
Accurate prediction,IMHO.
Other than now competing with MAC for recruits,none of us have much,if any,connection to any of them. Perhaps might be benficial to establish one,I guess. Could help with future recruiting. Temple is one I could see in the future cettainly for tje Pa schools.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Personally, I'm not all that excited about MAC East games unless I have a fighting shot at attending them. Lehigh doesn't have much in common with Kent St. or Toledo, either in regards to athletic history or academic history. Buffalo doesn't have a lot in common with Lehigh either, but it's an outside shot at a car/bus trip, so that is marginally more exciting.

If you're seriously going to put MAC games on the table, why limit yourself? Go to LSU, make it a once-in-a-lifetime event, and get paid way more $. I fail to understand, if a school really wants to pursue the $ of guarantee games, why you would ever want to half-ass it.

If you're looking for "competitive" games at the FBS level, there are lots of local choices against other PL members (Army, Navy), other academic-minded schools (Duke, Syracuse, Vanderbilt) or even other recent FBS schools that have athletic history with Lehigh (UMass).

[DFW HOYA]

If you're seriously going to put MAC games on the table, why limit yourself? Go to LSU, make it a once-in-a-lifetime event, and get paid way more $. I fail to understand, if a school really wants to pursue the $ of guarantee games, why you would ever want to half-ass it.

If you're looking for "competitive" games at the FBS level, there are lots of local choices against other PL members (Army, Navy), other academic-minded schools (Duke, Syracuse, Vanderbilt) or even other recent FBS schools that have athletic history with Lehigh (UMass).

I'd take any of those for Georgetown, including the MAC. None are calling, of course.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

UMass makes for an interesting case. They're local, and don't have any real reason to turn down an FCS school (perhaps even two) just to fill out their FBS independent schedule. Even though a win over them might be small beer, a loss wouldn't hurt, and they'd be a bus trip. A good number of local Lehigh folks, I think, make that trip. More than make the trip to Kent State.

[heath]

Personally, I'm not all that excited about MAC East games unless I have a fighting shot at attending them. Lehigh doesn't have much in common with Kent St. or Toledo, either in regards to athletic history or academic history. Buffalo doesn't have a lot in common with Lehigh either, but it's an outside shot at a car/bus trip, so that is marginally more exciting.

If you're seriously going to put MAC games on the table, why limit yourself? Go to LSU, make it a once-in-a-lifetime event, and get paid way more $. I fail to understand, if a school really wants to pursue the $ of guarantee games, why you would ever want to half-ass it.

If you're looking for "competitive" games at the FBS level, there are lots of local choices against other PL members (Army, Navy), other academic-minded schools (Duke, Syracuse, Vanderbilt) or even other recent FBS schools that have athletic history with Lehigh (UMass).
Don't want a once in a lifetime game,want to establish yearly chances for a FBS game. Not sure the ACC/SEC has Lehigh on the brain. Colgate and Syracuse make sence like UVA and Richmond. It will get old and not happen very often if ALL the PL schools keep looking at Army/Navy. Why is it you have to schedule teams that have a lot in common? Thought that was more for adding schools TO the PL. Lehigh flew to Liberty,why not Charlotte or Norfolk? BTW, UMass is in the MAC east.

[RichH2]

UMASS,Buffalo,Temple make sense to me. SEC does not. Liberty has been a good series for Lehigh. Good games,,great atmosphere at both schools. I would like to see some H and Hs with SoCon reams.

[DFW HOYA]

UMASS,Buffalo,Temple make sense to me. SEC does not. Liberty has been a good series for Lehigh. Good games,,great atmosphere at both schools. I would like to see some H and Hs with SoCon reams.

You take an SEC game for money, plain and simple. UMass might pay $100K for a game, whereas Idaho got $975K for a game at Florida.

[2ram]

I'm not old enough to presume Syracuse as a rival, but am part of the tradition that Gate plays up. In the 80's it was always part of our recruiting pitch to the athlete who was going to have to walk on at the big D1's; come to Colgate, get the education and a chance to beat State U. We played Penn State, Syracuse and Temple twice, Rutgers three times while I was an undergrad and while we didn't win many of those games (beat Temple once), they were definitely the games players and fans were most excited about. Think it's great that scholarships and getting rid of the Ivy-lite mindset are letting us recapture some of that tradition.

that's what i always associated colgate with as well. would like to see the same 'play up' attitude become a tradition at fordham too.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Fordham has been excellent with their FBS games, getting multiple games with Army and Temple. Perfect choices.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

It's hard to schedule Temple because we've maintained a steady series with Villanova over the last decade plus+. That leaves a very small window for other teams. Temple does not play FCS opponents every year. But when we do play one besides Villanova it will be regional. Delaware State, Fordham have been recent games. Temple plays Stony Brook is this year before Villanova returns for a 3 year series iirc.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Personally, I'm not all that excited about MAC East games unless I have a fighting shot at attending them. Lehigh doesn't have much in common with Kent St. or Toledo, either in regards to athletic history or academic history. Buffalo doesn't have a lot in common with Lehigh either, but it's an outside shot at a car/bus trip, so that is marginally more exciting.

If you're seriously going to put MAC games on the table, why limit yourself? Go to LSU, make it a once-in-a-lifetime event, and get paid way more $. I fail to understand, if a school really wants to pursue the $ of guarantee games, why you would ever want to half-ass it.

If you're looking for "competitive" games at the FBS level, there are lots of local choices against other PL members (Army, Navy), other academic-minded schools (Duke, Syracuse, Vanderbilt) or even other recent FBS schools that have athletic history with Lehigh (UMass).

It seems only recently has Lehigh had a recruiting presence in Western PA and Ohio. I've always wanted to Lehigh to play YSU, and a lesser extent Duquesne, to get more exposure in the WPIAL. Playing Akron and Kent State opens the door to a goldmine of talent in Northeast Ohio. Suburban Cleveland is filled with D1 recruits.

[RichH2]

You take an SEC game for money, plain and simple. UMass might pay $100K for a game, whereas Idaho got $975K for a game at Florida.
:) That's my point. I relish future FBS challenges,not future money beatdowns. We may get out butts kucked by a Temple,UCONN or UMASS or we could upset one. A Florida game would be an embarrassing rout. Selling our student athletes for a boatload of money is never an option for our AD,I hope.

[PAllen]

Temple, Rutgers, Army, Navy, UConn, UMass, BC, Syracuse, Buffalo, UVa, UNC, Duke, Vanderbilt, Rice, Stanford, Northwestern. Those should be the targets for Lehigh in roughly depending order. Beating Duquesne, YSU, or Kent State does little to help the recruiting front. None of the above get enough coverage to matter outside of their own sphere of recruits, and we're looking for a different type of student athlete than any of the above.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Temple, Rutgers, Army, Navy, UConn, UMass, BC, Syracuse, Buffalo, UVa, UNC, Duke, Vanderbilt, Rice, Stanford, Northwestern. Those should be the targets for Lehigh in roughly depending order. Beating Duquesne, YSU, or Kent State does little to help the recruiting front. None of the above get enough coverage to matter outside of their own sphere of recruits, and we're looking for a different type of student athlete than any of the above.

Lehigh, and most FCS programs, would get clobbered by most of those teams (especially Stanford, UNC, Navy and Northwestern) 9/10 years. Syracuse, Temple and Duke have been hit or miss lately. Moving forward I would not want to mess with the 'Cuse as long as Babers is there. I'll give you UVA, Vanderbilt and Rutgers as potential P5 opponents that Lehigh could compete with, and maybe beat, if the stars align.

I don't buy the "Lehigh recruits are a different type of student athlete". All you have to do is look at some of the other schools pursuing Lehigh recruits. If they're smart enough to score a 1300 ( not all are) on their SAT then they are smart enough to know the landscape of FCS and FBS football. Heck, Ivy League recruits are being pursued by Akron, Toledo, Temple, UConn, NIU, Delaware, JMU, Villanova etc. A win over a MAC team, even a low level one, would be great! As would a victory over a solid MVFC team like YSU.

Lehigh will always have a couple of Ivy League games to keep the academic folks happy. That allows 3 games against the 98% of college football world who do not live in a bubble.

[RichH2]

Lehigh will always have a couple of Ivy League games to keep the academic folks happy. That allows 3 games against the 98% of college football world who do not live in a bubble.[/QUOTE]
Best description of the Ivies. :)

[Go...gate]

At least you guys will continue to get a couple of Ivy League games each season as the years go on. That tradition seems to be running out for Colgate, which is kind of sad.

[RichH2]

gate
What's up with Cornell on a H and H?

[ngineer]

It seems only recently has Lehigh had a recruiting presence in Western PA and Ohio. I've always wanted to Lehigh to play YSU, and a lesser extent Duquesne, to get more exposure in the WPIAL. Playing Akron and Kent State opens the door to a goldmine of talent in Northeast Ohio. Suburban Cleveland is filled with D1 recruits.

We have recruited Western PA and Ohio in the past well. In fact, a half dozen guys from Western PA helped create the "big turnaround" under Dunlap in the early 1970's.

[DFW HOYA]

Lehigh will always have a couple of Ivy League games to keep the academic folks happy. That allows 3 games against the 98% of college football world who do not live in a bubble.

Not so sure. The Ivies are moving inexorably away from the PL-6. The Lehigh schedules of the 2020's are more likely to have Delaware and Youngstown State than Dartmouth and Yale.

[RichH2]

Perhaps,not 3 a year but we will have them every year. Penn and Princeton likely most years.

[Lehigh'98]

We have recruited Western PA and Ohio in the past well. In fact, a half dozen guys from Western PA helped create the "big turnaround" under Dunlap in the early 1970's.

Yes I don't think Owl is right about that either. We had over 10 guys from West PA, Ohio (me) in the 90s as well.

[van]

Not so sure. The Ivies are moving inexorably away from the PL-6. The Lehigh schedules of the 2020's are more likely to have Delaware and Youngstown State than Dartmouth and Yale.

had a lot of discussion on this a while back, I don't really see this, who would the Ivy fill their schedule with if not PL? just not many options for them other than pioneer and I just don't see that

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Isn't Bragalone from the WPIAL?

[RichH2]

Yes I don't think Owl is right about that either. We had over 10 guys from West PA, Ohio (me) in the 90s as well.
In the early 60s we had a number of guys from western Pa,particularly Shady Side Acad. IIR, the LV had by far the most players with south Jersey most of the rest.
The most notable difference to recent decades was the number of prep school grads. We had many more than today.

[Franks Tanks]

Isn't Bragalone from the WPIAL?

No, he is from South Williamsport, PA. They play in district 4 class A against very small schools.

[RichH2]

No, he is from South Williamsport, PA. They play in district 4 class A against very small schools.
Well ,it is west of Bethlehem :)

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Yes I don't think Owl is right about that either. We had over 10 guys from West PA, Ohio (me) in the 90s as well.

Lehigh seems to do ok in Ohio. I could see there being more players from Ohio than the WPIAL over the last 15-20 years. Lehigh has always had success in NJ, SEPA and to some extent the Lehigh Valley.

[heath]

had a lot of discussion on this a while back, I don't really see this, who would the Ivy fill their schedule with if not PL? just not many options for them other than pioneer and I just don't see that
The Ivys would be screwed if and when the PL starts to schedule up. I wish and hope we move away from 3 games a season, give them 2 ,NEC 1 and CAA 1 and a FBS game.

[DFW HOYA]

The Ivys would be screwed if and when the PL starts to schedule up. I wish and hope we move away from 3 games a season, give them 2 ,NEC 1 and CAA 1 and a FBS game.

They'll be fine. Add Georgetown and one more regionally academic school (Johns Hopkins?) into a football "scheduling alliance" (not a conference invite, perish the thought...), which gives the IL nine regular season games and one non-conference tilt.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Why would the Ivies shy away from the PL teams? I don't get why people are worried. Penn has played Villanova on basically a yearly basis the past 10 years. They've also played W&M. Dartmouth has played UNH in the last 5 years. Princeton has played The Citadel and Hampton in the not too distant past. Then there's Yale who's beaten Army, Cal Poly and Maine the last three season. Harvard is the one who's running scared....

[Go...gate]

gate
What's up with Cornell on a H and H?

The Colgate - Cornell series remains intact.

However, Princeton dropped us and the only other Ivy that seems inclined to play us is Yale.

[Go...gate]

They'll be fine. Add Georgetown and one more regionally academic school (Johns Hopkins?) into a football "scheduling alliance" (not a conference invite, perish the thought...), which gives the IL nine regular season games and one non-conference tilt.

I think it is more likely that GU will get at least three Ivies a year. Lafayette and Lehigh will remain on Princeton and Pennsylvania's schedule for purely logistical reasons. Don't know about the other Patriot - Ivy matchups, but the tide seems to be running out on them for Colgate.

[Sader87]

Holy Cross has signed long contracts with both Harvard and Yale....will they be upheld? Who knows?

HC, probably more than any other PL school, has the geographical and historical advantage of playing the New England Ivies. Hopefully it will continue.

[ngineer]

Isn't Bragalone from the WPIAL?

I don't think so. He's from a small school up in north central PA.

[Go...gate]

Holy Cross has signed long contracts with both Harvard and Yale....will they be upheld? Who knows?

HC, probably more than any other PL school, has the geographical and historical advantage of playing the New England Ivies. Hopefully it will continue.

Happy to hear this.

[JimLU]

I don't think so. He's from a small school up in north central PA.
Bragalone is from tiny South Williamsport Pennsylvania high school, one of the smaller members of that areas Heritage conference. A little know fact is that the Little League World Series is actually played there, and not in Williamsport, the much bigger city (29,000 roughly) across the Susquehanna river.

[Franks Tanks]

Bragalone is from tiny South Williamsport Pennsylvania high school, one of the smaller members of that areas Heritage conference. A little know fact is that the Little League World Series is actually played there, and not in Williamsport, the much bigger city (29,000 roughly) across the Susquehanna river.

PA guys don't know where Williamsport is? Jeez. It is about 20 miles from Bucknell in Lycoming County. Williamsport was a boom town once upon a time for the timber industry. Williamsport HS is known as the Millionaire's, and the town once had more millionaires per capita that any other town in county in the late 1800's (or something like that). That is no longer the case.

[DFW HOYA]

Holy Cross has signed long contracts with both Harvard and Yale....will they be upheld? Who knows?

HC, probably more than any other PL school, has the geographical and historical advantage of playing the New England Ivies. Hopefully it will continue.

It's good for HC but may not be for the Ivies, who are not enamored with the prospect of getting stomped on every year by full scholarship teams. If they wanted that, why wouldn't Harvard just play UNH and UMass? There's a real reason Harvard signed a long term deal with Georgetown, and it's not to enjoy Multi-Sport Field every other year.

The PL-6 can't have it both ways. By going full scholarship, it sent a message to compete at the highest level of the subdivision, but filling its non-conference schedule with multiple Ivy teams sends a different message.

[RichH2]

It's good for HC but may not be for the Ivies, who are not enamored with the prospect of getting stomped on every year by full scholarship teams. If they wanted that, why wouldn't Harvard just play UNH and UMass? There's a real reason Harvard signed a long term deal with Georgetown, and it's not to enjoy Multi-Sport Field every other year.

The PL-6 can't have it both ways. By going full scholarship, it sent a message to compete at the highest level of the subdivision, but filling its non-conference schedule with multiple Ivy teams sends a different message.
Understand your point,dont totally agree with it tho. Actually PL can have it "both ways". PL,for all our angst over FBS scheduling,has options for OOC games. Our problem there is we have too many OOC games to schedule.each year. We would like to continue our games with various Ivies for its tradition and they fill a couple of slots each year. Unlike the Ivies,we do have better other options. If Ivies cannot ramp down the drama over the path the PL has chosen ,their options for other OOC are virtually nonexistent. Bottom line it is there problem not ours.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The Ivies don't have many good options, thanks to the idiosyncrasies of the hermit kingdom. The regional FBS teams won't play them because they're not counters. The "non-scholarship" teams like Dayton and Marist are either completely unlike the Ivies or too far-flung to bring any fans. For some reason they won't play CAA teams - in years past it was because they thought the CAA teams would kill them. NEC teams might be competitive, but CCSU and Yale have zero in common institutionally except for the fact that they share a state. All signs point back to the PL, where, even with scholarships, the Ivy League will most likely play competitive games against them and be just about .500 against them.

[RichH2]

OK, enough on ghe Ivies. They will do or not do what they want in their bubble world.
For us,the main issue now for 2016,is how we are all doing with recruiting. Opinipns ???

[aceinthehole]

The Ivies don't have many good options, thanks to the idiosyncrasies of the hermit kingdom. The regional FBS teams won't play them because they're not counters. The "non-scholarship" teams like Dayton and Marist are either completely unlike the Ivies or too far-flung to bring any fans. For some reason they won't play CAA teams - in years past it was because they thought the CAA teams would kill them. NEC teams might be competitive, but CCSU and Yale have zero in common institutionally except for the fact that they share a state. All signs point back to the PL, where, even with scholarships, the Ivy League will most likely play competitive games against them and be just about .500 against them.

The Ivy has played San Diego more than a few times, and games vs. Jacksonville, Marist, or Dayton are totally acceptable for the Ancient Eight because they are likely wins.

The NEC-Ivy games are also occurring more frequently in the past decade. The private schools of the NEC, like the PFL, appear to be good fodder for the Ivy. Cornell-Wagner, Dartmouth-Sacred Heart, Columbia-St. Francis, are logical matchups for the Ivy with a better than average chance for a win. Surprisingly, even CCSU has scheduled games vs. the Ivy, including Columbia, Dartmouth, and Penn. I don't expect H-Y-P to schedule the Blue Devils, but the rest of the league has or is willing.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The Ivy has played San Diego more than a few times, and games vs. Jacksonville, Marist, or Dayton are totally acceptable for the Ancient Eight because they are likely wins.

The highlighted ones are on there due to their location more so than the wins.

[Gater]

Dartmouth has their schedules listed through 2022. Lots of Pioneer and NEC teams but then Army-West Point-New York-United States-Earth in 22. (Shows you how far out most of the games are scheduled and maybe that the Ivies will start scheduling tougher in roaring 20's.)

http://www.dartmouthsports.com/SportSelect.dbml?SPSID=48874&SPID=4719&Q_SEASON=2016

As for recruiting, Colgate seems to be at about the same level as recent years. Two *** guys in the same class for the first time but fewer ** guys than years past (for whatever any of that is worth) at this point.

In terms of beating up on the Ivies, Harvard seems to be bringing in enough talent to compete with most anybody.

http://harvard.247sports.com/Season/2016-Football/Commits

[aceinthehole]

Look at the Dartmouth future games vs. NEC/PFL ... No Patriot teams outside of HC and Georgetown

Sacred Heart
Stetson
Jacksonville
Marist
Valpo

[heath]

I think it is more likely that GU will get at least three Ivies a year. Lafayette and Lehigh will remain on Princeton and Pennsylvania's schedule for purely logistical reasons. Don't know about the other Patriot - Ivy matchups, but the tide seems to be running out on them for Colgate.
which is not a bad thing. I think Colgate is looking outside the box and being creative with their schedule. In the long run ,it will help recruiting and conference titles. I'm jealousxnodx In a 60 scholly world, stop playing the same schedule when you had ZERO, and bump it up a tadxthumbsupxxthumbsupx

[Gangtackle11]

I think you will see Villanova play 2 PL teams a season now that they parted ways with Penn.

Lehigh & Lafayette are up the next 2 seasons. I think you'll see the Cats in the PL, but only for out of conference tilts.

[Go Green]

Look at the Dartmouth future games vs. NEC/PFL ... No Patriot teams outside of HC and Georgetown



Colgate visits in 2019.

At the time those games were scheduled, it looked like the NEC was improving dramatically. They fell back a bit in 2015. Hopefully they can continue to improve.

PFL was scheduled for travel. Coach Teevens said for years that he thought playing strictly in the Northeast put us at a recruiting disadvantage.

[Go...gate]

Colgate visits in 2019.

At the time those games were scheduled, it looked like the NEC was improving dramatically. They fell back a bit in 2015. Hopefully they can continue to improve.

PFL was scheduled for travel. Coach Teevens said for years that he thought playing strictly in the Northeast put us at a recruiting disadvantage.

That is the very last game in that old contract and had been moved in that scheduling swap that created the Colgate at Syracuse and Bucknell at Dartmouth games a few years back. Is the "rescheduled" CU-DC game still to be played?

[ngineer]

It's been about 20 years or so since Lehigh played Dartmouth. Would love to see that renewed for at least one H-H.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

It's been about 20 years or so since Lehigh played Dartmouth. Would love to see that renewed for at least one H-H.

So would I. Members of my family are Big Green alums and I'd love nothing better for Lehigh to take it to them one more time. :D

[Lehigh'98]

It's been about 20 years or so since Lehigh played Dartmouth. Would love to see that renewed for at least one H-H.

Was the last time we played them in 1997 when we ended a long winning streak of theirs?

[Go Green]

That is the very last game in that old contract and had been moved in that scheduling swap that created the Colgate at Syracuse and Bucknell at Dartmouth games a few years back. Is the "rescheduled" CU-DC game still to be played?

We have several "TBDs" in the early 2020 seasons. If the PFL/NEC games turn out to be duds, I'm sure Colgate will be a possibility.

[Go Green]

Was the last time we played them in 1997 when we ended a long winning streak of theirs?

Yep.

http://articles.mcall.com/1997-10-26/sports/3175767_1_stambaugh-unbeaten-streak-lehigh-s-rabih-abdullah

Not to take anything away from Lehigh, but my memory was that we were looking ahead to Harvard the following week (which we also lost).

[Lehigh'98]

Yep.

http://articles.mcall.com/1997-10-26/sports/3175767_1_stambaugh-unbeaten-streak-lehigh-s-rabih-abdullah

Not to take anything away from Lehigh, but my memory was that we were looking ahead to Harvard the following week (which we also lost).

That was one of the better games of my career. I had a block for Abdullah's TD that they got a nice photograph of. It hung in the Lehigh locker room and coaches ofice for a long time. Was the highlight of our '97 season aside from that little comback over the Leopards!! Dartmouth was very good.

[RichH2]

That was one of the better games of my career. I had a block for Abdullah's TD that they got a nice photograph of. It hung in the Lehigh locker room and coaches ofice for a long time. Was the highlight of our '97 season aside from that little comback over the Leopards!! Dartmouth was very good.
Ahh,so you're the guy I have hanging on my den wall all these years :).

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Lehigh won at Dartmouth 30-14 in 1999 I remember that game pretty well because it was the week before Delaware. That game was about getting out alive....

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

We have several "TBDs" in the early 2020 seasons. If the PFL/NEC games turn out to be duds, I'm sure Colgate will be a possibility.

Any discussion about another series with UNH?

[UNHWildcat18]

Any discussion about another series with UNH?

I doubt it, we have beaten them too many times. While I root for Dartmouth to win every game unless it's vs UNH I doubt they reschedule us.

[Go Green]

I can tell you that a lot of Dartmouth people wished that we had played each other in 2015.

We will see how next season's game goes. You guys should be heavy favorites given our graduation losses. If its a blowout, don't count on us returning your calls anytime soon...

In the meantime, here's Harvard's number: http://gocrimson.com/sports/fball/coaches/index Give them a call, will you?

[KPSUL]

I can tell you that a lot of Dartmouth people wished that we had played each other in 2015.

We will see how next season's game goes. You guys should be heavy favorites given our graduation losses. If its a blowout, don't count on us returning your calls anytime soon...

In the meantime, here's Harvard's number: http://gocrimson.com/sports/fball/coaches/index Give them a call, will you?

I don't have any inside information, but I highly suspect we've called Harvard. As I'm sure you know, the drive to Cambridge from Durham NH is about half the distance as Hanover. It's too bad Dartmouth and UNH didn't play in 2015, it would likely have been an excellent game. We have some holes to fill too; especially at QB. Let's see what happens this season at your place, but best of luck in your other 9 games! I think the H and H every other year is a good model. I hope it continues.

[Gate83]

Nice article here on scholarship impact from FOX Sports... http://www.foxsports.com/college-football/story/scholarships-finally-have-patriot-on-rise-012716

[RichH2]

Thanks 83,good read.

[PAllen]

Sorry, I just don't see the improvement on the field over 15 years ago. I'm not saying schollies are bad by any sense. I just don't see these recent results as any better (or even as good) as what the league was doing 15 years ago without even a whiff of scholarships.

[LeopardBall10]

Sorry, I just don't see the improvement on the field over 15 years ago. I'm not saying schollies are bad by any sense. I just don't see these recent results as any better (or even as good) as what the league was doing 15 years ago without even a whiff of scholarships.

The difficulty is that the results on the field are not purely just a switch from Need-based grant to merit based scholarship. The PL saw it fit to add in several other rules that, imo, have altered the teams for the worse. Take for example a kid like Edmunds, he would never be at a PL school without a scholarship. The talent of the individual players has increased, but the teams now have a roster limit and the inability to bring in any player who isn't either scholarship or no-need. The way the rules are written every aid dollar, no matter where it comes from, counts as a scholarship dollar. No more high academic kids getting the marquis scholarship at Lafayette and playing football.

The red shirting and the AI haven't changed. Do I think the league would need to get rid of those two rules to regularly compete for a national championship? Probably, but I don't think those two rules negatively affect the quality of the players coming in. It is the other league rules that came in with scholarships that negatively affect the team and team depth.

[Andy]

The difficulty is that the results on the field are not purely just a switch from Need-based grant to merit based scholarship. The PL saw it fit to add in several other rules that, imo, have altered the teams for the worse. Take for example a kid like Edmunds, he would never be at a PL school without a scholarship. The talent of the individual players has increased, but the teams now have a roster limit and the inability to bring in any player who isn't either scholarship or no-need. The way the rules are written every aid dollar, no matter where it comes from, counts as a scholarship dollar. No more high academic kids getting the marquis scholarship at Lafayette and playing football.

The red shirting and the AI haven't changed. Do I think the league would need to get rid of those two rules to regularly compete for a national championship? Probably, but I don't think those two rules negatively affect the quality of the players coming in. It is the other league rules that came in with scholarships that negatively affect the team and team depth.

This doesn't make a tremendous amount of sense to someone like me with limited knowledge. First off, Marquis Scholarships were few and far between, Maurer, Conte, any others over 15 years? They were effective in no or low need scenarios, otherwise the academic scholarship was just part of the overall package.

When the league went scholarship the argument was that total aid disbursed would be the same, just in grant form instead of need based. With LC formerly competing in the equivalency range of low-mid 40s, a switch to 60 via scholarship has to be an upgrade, no?

Guys smarter than I cite the roster limit, but how are we to get to 90 something with a cost to attend around $60k? We're not State U with viable walk on programs fueled by low tuitions. We'd need a change to allow need based aid on top of the 60 and that would have to be to unrecruited walkons above 63, correct?

[Doc QB]

Guys smarter than I cite the roster limit, but how are we to get to 90 something with a cost to attend around $60k? We're not State U with viable walk on programs fueled by low tuitions. We'd need a change to allow need based aid on top of the 60 and that would have to be to unrecruited walkons above 63, correct?

To some degree yes, it would be 60 fulls and some unrectruited guys, or no need guys. Or, as has been the practice, the coaches have split a few fulls to half scholarships to get more bodies. I think this is a mistake, because then you lose the competitive advantage of the full ticket. This is what we were lacking for those middle income families or even no-need families with better talent under need based model. We would not have gotten Shafnisky to LU over UNH if he was a half scholarship. Heck, some kids will turn down a full from us for half to go to Harvard. Either way, we need bodies out there, and it is shortsighted of the powers that be to think having 60 players and a sprinkling of walkons is enough.

Give the full 60 to 60 guys, allow actual, non-athletic dept need based aid from FAFSA forms and general aid pool kids to as well compete like we have always done....those guys were around in my day in addition to the 57 equivs spread out amongst the roster, and no one cared then.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

A key thing here is that every player who dons a football uniform in the Ivy League is on, essentially, a full or damned-near full scholarship. Visiting Princeton this year I saw that first-hand, with their unlimited squad size for home contests (yes, look it up). The Ivy travel team size is a more manageable, fair, 62. But essentially, when a 60 scholarship Patriot League team travels to an Ivy school they are basically going against an FBS, if the Ivy in question cares about football.

[RichH2]

Sorry, I just don't see the improvement on the field over 15 years ago. I'm not saying schollies are bad by any sense. I just don't see these recent results as any better (or even as good) as what the league was doing 15 years ago without even a whiff of scholarships.
A major difference is that some of those players from 15 yrs ago couldn't get admitted today. Not referring to the AI. Admissions floor at LU a good bit higher now.

[RichH2]

To some degree yes, it would be 60 fulls and some unrectruited guys, or no need guys. Or, as has been the practice, the coaches have split a few fulls to half scholarships to get more bodies. I think this is a mistake, because then you lose the competitive advantage of the full ticket. This is what we were lacking for those middle income families or even no-need families with better talent under need based model. We would not have gotten Shafnisky to LU over UNH if he was a half scholarship. Heck, some kids will turn down a full from us for half to go to Harvard. Either way, we need bodies out there, and it is shortsighted of the powers that be to think having 60 players and a sprinkling of walkons is enough.

Give the full 60 to 60 guys, allow actual, non-athletic dept need based aid from FAFSA forms and general aid pool kids to as well compete like we have always done....those guys were around in my day in addition to the 57 equivs spread out amongst the roster, and no one cared then.
Agree on 60 cap which includes all aid. Allowing need aid could aid 4-5 players with the potential to actually play. Current rule allowing 3 true WOs only adds bodies for practice.

[LeopardBall10]

I used the Marquis Scholarship just as an example of other possible aid out there. But what I am trying to say is that any aid money, whether it is based on need or merit scholarship is counted toward the 60. So, as another example, lets say you have a high academic, high need, minority recruit. The coaches decide he is good enough for a half scholarship offer, and he has to come up with the rest (either loans or whatever). But if that same kid goes through admission on his own he may get a 75% scholarship. Unfortunately, because he is the kind of kid the school wants and they give him more aid the team cannot let him walk on. His 75% would all count toward the 60 and what coach will give up scholarship money that they can give somewhere else.

By eliminating the ability for students to apply and receive aid on their own you eliminate any real walk on opportunities. That is why the roster limit is pointless. Only being able to recruit full-pay walk ons eliminates the possibility of ever being at the limit.

[LeopardBall10]

Agree on 60 cap which includes all aid. Allowing need aid could aid 4-5 players with the potential to actually play. Current rule allowing 3 true WOs only adds bodies for practice.

Exactly, instead of being able to find 60 full scholarships, and adding in 20 kids who get partial aid through the financial aid office who get some money our coaches in the PL are forced to use more of a DII model that spreads the 60 fulls over 75 players with the hopes of finding 1 to 2 full pay kids in each class who can fog a mirror.

[Andy]

To some degree yes, it would be 60 fulls and some unrectruited guys, or no need guys. Or, as has been the practice, the coaches have split a few fulls to half scholarships to get more bodies. I think this is a mistake, because then you lose the competitive advantage of the full ticket. This is what we were lacking for those middle income families or even no-need families with better talent under need based model. We would not have gotten Shafnisky to LU over UNH if he was a half scholarship. Heck, some kids will turn down a full from us for half to go to Harvard. Either way, we need bodies out there, and it is shortsighted of the powers that be to think having 60 players and a sprinkling of walkons is enough.

Give the full 60 to 60 guys, allow actual, non-athletic dept need based aid from FAFSA forms and general aid pool kids to as well compete like we have always done....those guys were around in my day in addition to the 57 equivs spread out amongst the roster, and no one cared then.

But we are limited to 63 (60 PL) equivs by rule. So any need based aid additions would have to be "unrecruited" walkons. Still doable I guess.

[RichH2]

We can all see the anomalies created bu our current policy as noted by Doc,Leopardball and ,Andy. Well said. Well said. Dont expect PL to act quickly. Hopefully,we can at least get to 63 that can include recruited need and academic merit aid. That will eliminate one artificial barrier in recruiting.

[Bill]

A major difference is that some of those players from 15 yrs ago couldn't get admitted today. Not referring to the AI. Admissions floor at LU a good bit higher now.

Good points all around - I'd also like to point out there was zero competition from the NEC teams then. Back when they were following that psuedo-DIII model, no one was even allowing a scholarship from those schools to enter their thought process....

[Go...gate]

A major difference is that some of those players from 15 yrs ago couldn't get admitted today. Not referring to the AI. Admissions floor at LU a good bit higher now.

Agreed.

[LeopardBall10]

Good points all around - I'd also like to point out there was zero competition from the NEC teams then. Back when they were following that psuedo-DIII model, no one was even allowing a scholarship from those schools to enter their thought process....

I really don't think the competition for players has changed all that much. Those high academic guys are still going to consider a "non-scholarship offer" from the ivys, there are still very few league battles for the same kid, and no one in the league is really recruiting the NEC type of player. The only change I see is the ability to reach for a few kids every year who would have gone to Nova or MAC before the league had scholarships. And to be honest, I think the PL schools have a better shot at beating the MACs on a high academic kid then they do of beating Nova and W&M on a high caliber, high academic FCS player.

[RichH2]

I really don't think the competition for players has changed all that much. Those high academic guys are still going to consider a "non-scholarship offer" from the ivys, there are still very few league battles for the same kid, and no one in the league is really recruiting the NEC type of player. The only change I see is the ability to reach for a few kids every year who would have gone to Nova or MAC before the league had scholarships. And to be honest, I think the PL schools have a better shot at beating the MACs on a high academic kid then they do of beating Nova and W&M on a high caliber, high academic FCS player.
There are indeed fewer H2Hs between PL trams since the syart of schollies. There are also fewer H2Hs with the Ivids. Preschollies that was not the case. It was usual to see multiple PL offers for players. MAC and service academies were rarely cited as competing offets. As you note,now we see both as competing offers from vatious MACs and Academies. Academics are cited more often than not by recruits we get.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I really don't think the competition for players has changed all that much. Those high academic guys are still going to consider a "non-scholarship offer" from the ivys, there are still very few league battles for the same kid, and no one in the league is really recruiting the NEC type of player. The only change I see is the ability to reach for a few kids every year who would have gone to Nova or MAC before the league had scholarships. And to be honest, I think the PL schools have a better shot at beating the MACs on a high academic kid then they do of beating Nova and W&M on a high caliber, high academic FCS player.

I am not sure where I saw it, but there was a news item I saw recently in NJ.com or somewhere talking about NJ high schools. When this particular football program had D-I kids, he said he said they should at least "consider one of the TWO D-I schools in the state." That he meant Rutgers and Monmouth spoke volumes. Princeton wasn't on his radar at all.

[Go Green]

Good points all around - I'd also like to point out there was zero competition from the NEC teams then...

But there was competition from Boston University, Hofstra, and Northeastern.

[RichH2]

But there was competition from Boston University, Hofstra, and Northeastern.
True Green but not from Monmouth ,Albany,and all the NEC teams,. Seems we lose a few every yr to Duquesne. We may both offer partials but Dukds can supplement with need aid. We cant.

[DFW HOYA]

The aforementioned article was a good one, but I've never seen an objective article discussing the impact that Georgetown's non-scholarship stance is doing to its short term recruiting and long term competitiveness.

My less-informed opinion is that a need-based, work study buyout offer is now noncompetitive in head to head battles with the other six PL schools and Georgetown must shift its recruiting to find less known, high-need kids that aren't going to get any interest from other PL schools.

Not exactly a formula for championships, but it's the best chance they've got, short of filling the class with what's left after the Ivies and the PL have filed theirs.

[RichH2]

The aforementioned article was a good one, but I've never seen an objective article discussing the impact that Georgetown's non-scholarship stance is doing to its short term recruiting and long term competitiveness.

My less-informed opinion is that a need-based, work study buyout offer is now noncompetitive in head to head battles with the other six PL schools and Georgetown must shift its recruiting to find less known, high-need kids that aren't going to get any interest from other PL schools.

Not exactly a formula for championships, but it's the best chance they've got, short of filling the class with what's left after the Ivies and the PL have filed theirs.
Overall likely true. Note tho Hoyas just beat out Lehigh for a Fla DB. So all is not lost :)

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Bucknell got themselves a nice gift!! 20 million worth of nice!

http://wnep.com/2016/01/29/20-million-pledge-to-bucknell-university/

[bonarae]

Spring Primer from Haley:

http://www.fcs.football/cfb/story.asp?i=20160304114814756012504

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Spring Primer from Haley:

http://www.fcs.football/cfb/story.asp?i=20160304114814756012504

Pretty good early take. Spring ball will be interesting at Lehigh. I'm interested to see if the defense has any new wrinkles....

[2ram]

I think when the magazines and media/coaches vote the preseason poll will look like this....

1. Colgate - They're easily the favorite. The schedule is tough though...
2. Lehigh - Offense could/should be awesome. Can the defense go from horrific to slightly below average? Gate and Fordham come to Goodman...
3. Holy Cross - Pujals returns for his 10th year and Gilmore got back over the .500 hump. Defense and iffy play in key situations have been problems..
4. Fordham - They seemed to be falling back to the back and now they enter 2016 with a new coach. They have a chance if Edmonds stays but a terrible defense and new coach will end their playoff streak imo.
5. Bucknell - I think there's a pretty big dropoff after the first 4. Bison good defense but almost no offense.
6. Georgetown - Showed a lot of fight in 2015. As long Sgarlata is there the Hoya's will be a headache....
7. Lafayette - Coming off a 1-10 season there's not much room left to fall. A lame duck coach and a run of losing seasons doesn't leave much room for optimism...




Early, early rankings:

1. Colgate
2. Lehigh
3. Bucknell
3. Holy Cross
5. Fordham
6. Lafayette
7. Georgetown

huh? i know i don't live in the NE, so i don't get to see practices, or even games live... and yes, i'm partial to fordham :)

but fordham returns 19/22 starters from a 9-3 team... and you guys pick them 4th and 5th in the PL? to finish that low, we would need to go sub .500... isn't that a serious disconnect, on paper at least?

[Gangtackle11]

1. Colgate
2. Fordham
3. Holy Cross
4. Lehigh
5. Bucknell
6. Georgetown
7. Lafayette

[2ram]

Sorry, I just don't see the improvement on the field over 15 years ago. I'm not saying schollies are bad by any sense. I just don't see these recent results as any better (or even as good) as what the league was doing 15 years ago without even a whiff of scholarships.

not sure i agree with this, at least from fordham's perspective. we wouldn't have had nebrich, edmonds, koonce, light, and many other i won't list now without scholarships. granted, a great coach got some of the very best out of them, and teams of the past had some great players on them... but i don't think we had the sheer amount of raw talent 15 years ago.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

huh? i know i don't live in the NE, so i don't get to see practices, or even games live... and yes, i'm partial to fordham :)

but fordham returns 19/22 starters from a 9-3 team... and you guys pick them 4th and 5th in the PL? to finish that low, we would need to go sub .500... isn't that a serious disconnect, on paper at least?

We'll see what affect losing Moorhead will have. Colgate and Lehigh hit a rough patch with staff turnover. Given how good of a coach Moorhead is and the youthfulness of Breiner my guess is there will be a bit of a transition. Plus, like Lehigh, the Ram's defense was really bad last year. I mean REALLY bad. Plus, both of those predictions were made when Edmond's status was in limbo.

The Preseason mags will be out in about 7-8 weeks....xnodx

[Sader87]

Really looking forward to a league that is all scholarship (save GTown) now.

HC is definitely (on paper anyway) more talented than it has been since probably the late 1980s/early 1990s up and down the rostah. I think HC really "dipped" much more than the Lehigh's, Lafayette's and Colgate's of the league when it went non-scholarship....those schools were more used to the "non-scholly model" and HC nevah seemed to be able to get their level for the most paht from 1992-2012 imo.

[heath]

We'll see what affect losing Moorhead will have. Colgate and Lehigh hit a rough patch with staff turnover. Given how good of a coach Moorhead is and the youthfulness of Breiner my guess is there will be a bit of a transition. Plus, like Lehigh, the Ram's defense was really bad last year. I mean REALLY bad. Plus, both of those predictions were made when Edmond's status was in limbo.

The Preseason mags will be out in about 7-8 weeks....xnodx
Breiner is as good or better than Checcinni, only difference is our OC had to leave to get a HC job and their OC just moved up to HC. Fordham will have a really good offense, but defense wins championships..........well maybe not in the PL because they all suckxnodx

[tribefan40]

So I was talking to someone in our administration this Fall, and he was telling me that when the CAA was in trouble a few years back one of their schools was considering joining the Patriot. Then they looked at PL academic requirements and realized that only 1 athlete on their roster would be able to play under PL rules and decided they didn't want to revamp their program to meet our standards. I'm fine with that, and also with the idea we're not likely to beat NDSU or UNI anytime soon.

I call BS. Show me the money.

[Andy]

1. Colgate
2. Fordham
3. Lafayette
4. Holy Cross
5. Lehigh
6.Georgetown
7. Bucknell

[RichH2]

I call BS. Show me the money.
1 is a rather large overstatement. AI the deal breaker and it would have hit roster hard.

[RichH2]

1. Colgate
2. Fordham
3. Lafayette
4. Holy Cross
5. Lehigh
6.Georgetown
7. Bucknell

Well Spring is the time for blind optimism :)

[Franks Tanks]

Bold prediction. Pards will double win total from last year. Bruce will be so excited he will give Frank a 3 year extension.

[RichH2]

Bold prediction. Pards will double win total from last year. Bruce will be so excited he will give Frank a 3 year extension.
The yin and yang of you and Andy. Actually think Pards will be somewhete around 500 in PL .

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The Pards will be better than last year. Then again, a 3-8 season would be better than last year.

[carney2]

The Pards will be better than last year. Then again, a 3-8 season would be better than last year.

Betcha the Pards are better than 3 wins this year. They don't look like even 6-5 with their OOC schedule, but will be a factor in a weak League. Andy and I don't agree on much, but his prediction is probably closer to reality, at least for Lafayette, than most of the others I've seen in this thread.

[Andy]

Bold prediction. Pards will double win total from last year. Bruce will be so excited he will give Frank a 3 year extension.

I respect your knowledge and opinion, FT, if you think our staff sucks I'll take your word for it, but where does that leave the others whom we went 8-4 against with a title the previous 2 years?

[Andy]

Well Spring is the time for blind optimism :)

Actually the opposite of blind, Rich, informed and impressed with the quality of our players and not influenced by a season lost to injury. Predicting outcome based on last year would be blind. Our sr QB was a freshman phenom who got himself suspended for the first 3 games last year and then suffered behind a banged up OL with 2 fr and a 3rd string DLman starting. The OL personnel this year looks to be the best in the Tavani era and so hopefully the QB play will improve. Our 2 WRs, Mrazek and Vangelas are back from injury and Chenoweth, who had 49 catches as a fr, has a year in the system under his belt. It seems like our RB Brown has been around forever, in fact he's just a jr and a good one. We have one of the most dangerous offensive threats in the league in CJ Amil (3*), you guys just don't know it yet. They finally started to give him more touches out of the backfield late last season where IMO he's a more natural fit than at the slot. Look out!

Defense does have question marks, however, but with DL Lonardo and Mercado coming back off injury, a 3* being added to the mix and young DEs having gotten some experience, there's reason for optimism. We have one of the best LBs in the league in Bryant and the other inside backer will be Root, who came in highly touted but missed last season, injured. The makeup of DB group is the biggest question mark. It won't be the disaster we saw last season with some ill prepared fr thrown into the mix due to injury.

[Andy]

Betcha the Pards are better than 3 wins this year. They don't look like even 6-5 with their OOC schedule, but will be a factor in a weak League. Andy and I don't agree on much, but his prediction is probably closer to reality, at least for Lafayette, than most of the others I've seen in this thread.

In a season where we desperately need some confidence boosting the braintrust has us Delaware-Princeton-Villanova back-to-back-to-back. Throw in Army for a mid-season test and we're all set. Better win the opener...

[RichH2]

Actually the opposite of blind, Rich, informed and impressed with the quality of our players and not influenced by a season lost to injury. Predicting outcome based on last year would be blind. Our sr QB was a freshman phenom who got himself suspended for the first 3 games last year and then suffered behind a banged up OL with 2 fr and a 3rd string DLman starting. The OL personnel this year looks to be the best in the Tavani era and so hopefully the QB play will improve. Our 2 WRs, Mrazek and Vangelas are back from injury and Chenoweth, who had 49 catches as a fr, has a year in the system under his belt. It seems like our RB Brown has been around forever, in fact he's just a jr and a good one. We have one of the most dangerous offensive threats in the league in CJ Amil (3*), you guys just don't know it yet. They finally started to give him more touches out of the backfield late last season where IMO he's a more natural fit than at the slot. Look out!

Defense does have question marks, however, but with DL Lonardo and Mercado coming back off injury, a 3* being added to the mix and young DEs having gotten some experience, there's reason for optimism. We have one of the best LBs in the league in Bryant and the other inside backer will be Root, who came in highly touted but missed last season, injured. The makeup of DB group is the biggest question mark. It won't be the disaster we saw last season with some ill prepared fr thrown into the mix due to injury.
Gerz Andy, dont lose your sense of humor:) I'm teasing you.

[Franks Tanks]

I respect your knowledge and opinion, FT, if you think our staff sucks I'll take your word for it, but where does that leave the others whom we went 8-4 against with a title the previous 2 years?

Just a joke. I suppose 3-4 or 5 wins will be possible for the Pards. I would be bullish if Drew Reed could get back to 2013 form, but that seems unlikely are 2 average at best seasons.

I've said it many times before, but I don't think Frank's CEO approach is working with his current staff. We need a head coach who is more involved in setting a direction for the program in regard to philosophy and execution in my opinion. I think Frank tells Mickey he wants to run the ball, and that is about it. Mickey sets up in the gun, and runs slow developing run plays behind a line that hasn't been very athletic in the recent past. Not sure this is what Mickey really wants to do, but it is what he is told to do, and it doesn't seem to work. Something just isn't meshing. My major concern is our continued lack of development at the QB and OL. The faces change, but results seem to stay roughly the same. Shoop didn't really improve under Mickey's guidance despite a tremendous arm and good overall athletic ability. Zwezig also seemed to be stalled before his unfortunate injury situation. Reed has regressed since Freshman year, although he didn't have much of a chance to do anything in 2015. The OL has maxed out at average, even when we had multiple all league players. Over the last few years when we moved the ball, it was mostly due to superb individual efforts from Ross Scheurman and Mark Ross.

On D, I think Art Link was a good hire. I like what he is trying to do, but he has yet to execute. Last year was a complete cluster you know what based on the injury situation, but the D needs to improve significantly this year to convince me we are on the right path here.

Overall I guess I am tired of thinking next year will be the year. When our young guys will gel, and some veterans will go from being good to really good. It just hasn't been happening, and wondering if ever will under the current staff configuration.

[Andy]

I'd be looking forward to some new blood, but with our AD undoubtedly conducting, as has been said, "a nationwide search of the Lafayette campus" for a replacement, I'd be more apprehensive then excited.

[CFBfan]

Actually the opposite of blind, Rich, informed and impressed with the quality of our players and not influenced by a season lost to injury. Predicting outcome based on last year would be blind. Our sr QB was a freshman phenom who got himself suspended for the first 3 games last year and then suffered behind a banged up OL with 2 fr and a 3rd string DLman starting. The OL personnel this year looks to be the best in the Tavani era and so hopefully the QB play will improve. Our 2 WRs, Mrazek and Vangelas are back from injury and Chenoweth, who had 49 catches as a fr, has a year in the system under his belt. It seems like our RB Brown has been around forever, in fact he's just a jr and a good one. We have one of the most dangerous offensive threats in the league in CJ Amil (3*), you guys just don't know it yet. They finally started to give him more touches out of the backfield late last season where IMO he's a more natural fit than at the slot. Look out!

Defense does have question marks, however, but with DL Lonardo and Mercado coming back off injury, a 3* being added to the mix and young DEs having gotten some experience, there's reason for optimism. We have one of the best LBs in the league in Bryant and the other inside backer will be Root, who came in highly touted but missed last season, injured. The makeup of DB group is the biggest question mark. It won't be the disaster we saw last season with some ill prepared fr thrown into the mix due to injury.

WOW!!! looks like killable has a convert!!

- - - Updated - - -

that's killable!!

[Andy]

Gerz Andy, dont lose your sense of humor:) I'm teasing you.

Not at all, Rich. Writing it out helps to convince myself. xnodx

[LeopardBall10]

I'd be looking forward to some new blood, but with our AD undoubtedly conducting, as has been said, "a nationwide search of the Lafayette campus" for a replacement, I'd be more apprehensive then excited.

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=22258&stc=1

I think they should hire back the search firm that did a nationwide search for the open AD position and said the guy on staff was the best (read only one willing to do the job at that salary) option.

[KillaBee]

WOW!!! looks like killable has a convert!!

- - - Updated - - -

that's killable!!



Hey Hey CFBfan, The truth is the truth!!!!

I believe Andy is accurate in his assessment. Time will tell, let go of the past... this is 2016!! The year of the Leopard Bee!!! a discovery of a new creature.. possibly 2016 FCS Championship!!!

[CFBfan]

Hey Hey CFBfan, The truth is the truth!!!!

I believe Andy is accurate in his assessment. Time will tell, let go of the past... this is 2016!! The year of the Leopard Bee!!! a discovery of a new creature.. possibly 2016 FCS Championship!!!

killa, having lost numerous houses last year where are you living these days??

[KillaBee]

killa, having lost numerous houses last year where are you living these days??

CFB, not sure if you understand the dynamics of the hive, we are nomadic, and only move forward. 2016 is the year!!! I hope you will join us. The Leopards are in training, preparing for springball. In my conversation the other day with Steven A, he finally agreed that an undefeated season is in the makings.. Have a Nice Day!!!!!

[Lehigh Football Nation]

CFB, not sure if you understand the dynamics of the hive, we are nomadic, and only move forward. 2016 is the year!!! I hope you will join us. The Leopards are in training, preparing for springball. In my conversation the other day with Steven A, he finally agreed that an undefeated season is in the makings.. Have a Nice Day!!!!!

"We Are Nomadic" explains why he was betting his house every week last year.... xlolx

[KillaBee]

"We Are Nomadic" explains why he was betting his house every week last year.... xlolx

Ha Ha.. Pick on a Bee, B4 spring... very cowardly... My wings will fully develop by summer and I will Bee in full stride come 11/19 for you.. until then stay in the mountains..hawk!

[CFBfan]

CFB, not sure if you understand the dynamics of the hive, we are nomadic, and only move forward. 2016 is the year!!! I hope you will join us. The Leopards are in training, preparing for springball. In my conversation the other day with Steven A, he finally agreed that an undefeated season is in the makings.. Have a Nice Day!!!!!

I am not a pard fan so no chance of that, you have yourself a nice day as well kb

[bison137]

1. Colgate
2. Fordham
3. Lafayette
4. Holy Cross
5. Lehigh
6.Georgetown
7. Bucknell



Barring significant injuries, Bucknell won't be anywhere close to the cellar. They should be better than the last two years.

[RichH2]

Barring significant injuries, Bucknell won't be anywhere close to the cellar. They should be better than the last two years.
Doubt Andy 's prediction is all that serious.. More likely a result of his crusade to resurrect Pard football. Every team has significant holes. We could shuffle the names randomly and come up with a likely result.

[Fordham]

Barring significant injuries, Bucknell won't be anywhere close to the cellar. They should be better than the last two years.

I'll bet they will be. I also think that something magical will happen with some team that will have four full scholarship classes as its make-up.

Imo, the pre-season top 3 is clear with Colgate #1, followed by Fordham and Lehigh. I know we lost Moorhead and there's no bigger fan of his than I am. That said, the same system and remaining staff returns along with 19 of 22 starters, including an outstanding QB, a legit 6'8 TE who will get a good shot at making an NFL roster the following year, most of the OL and arguably the best player in FCS or certainly (imo) the best RB. Our D was miserable, agreed. That said, everyone is back and with the addition of the OC from UNI I believe our young coach knows that the only way to surpass the results that his predecessor had is to improve the D dramatically. I certainly don't know what drop off in focus or execution we may have with a new HC but, on paper at least, we deserve to be at least 2 or 3 in the pre-season imo.

I also think that the way Lehigh finished the year combined with the talent they have been bringing in puts them right in that 2 or 3 spot with a chance to be that team that makes that everything-melded-perfectly-with-all-scholarship-classes kind of run.

So on paper for the pre-season I don't know how those 3 aren't in the top spots. The game not being played on paper, though, means that I could see Lafayette, HC or Bucknell all making a run at it once the games start even if I wouldn't put them in the top 3 for pre-season rankings. However, if HC and Lafayette don't see that melding or jump in results, it seems clear to me that they need to give someone else a shot at the helm. I really think this is the year we see the clear jump we have all been waiting for where we are clearly at least competitive with the top teams in other conferences, have a good overall non-conference record and have a good shot at multi-bids and a nice playoff run again. I do think there's a rising tide occurring in the PL.

[LUHawker]

I'll bet they will be. I also think that something magical will happen with some team that will have four full scholarship classes as its make-up.

Imo, the pre-season top 3 is clear with Colgate #1, followed by Fordham and Lehigh. I know we lost Moorhead and there's no bigger fan of his than I am. That said, the same system and remaining staff returns along with 19 of 22 starters, including an outstanding QB, a legit 6'8 TE who will get a good shot at making an NFL roster the following year, most of the OL and arguably the best player in FCS or certainly (imo) the best RB. Our D was miserable, agreed. That said, everyone is back and with the addition of the OC from UNI I believe our young coach knows that the only way to surpass the results that his predecessor had is to improve the D dramatically. I certainly don't know what drop off in focus or execution we may have with a new HC but, on paper at least, we deserve to be at least 2 or 3 in the pre-season imo.

I also think that the way Lehigh finished the year combined with the talent they have been bringing in puts them right in that 2 or 3 spot with a chance to be that team that makes that everything-melded-perfectly-with-all-scholarship-classes kind of run.

So on paper for the pre-season I don't know how those 3 aren't in the top spots. The game not being played on paper, though, means that I could see Lafayette, HC or Bucknell all making a run at it once the games start even if I wouldn't put them in the top 3 for pre-season rankings. However, if HC and Lafayette don't see that melding or jump in results, it seems clear to me that they need to give someone else a shot at the helm. I really think this is the year we see the clear jump we have all been waiting for where we are clearly at least competitive with the top teams in other conferences, have a good overall non-conference record and have a good shot at multi-bids and a nice playoff run again. I do think there's a rising tide occurring in the PL.

Very good overall assessment, and not because you stick Lehigh in the top 3. :) Not to be a naysayer on Fordham, but I think we, on this board in particular, all underestimate the impact of coaching changes, either at the top itself or at the coordinator level. Even with near continuity at Colgate it took Dan Hunt a couple of years to get Colgate up to speed. Same for Lehigh on the OC side. Generally-speaking, the programs that have consistently done well at the FCS level all have had stability within the coaching ranks (see Villanova, UNI, UNH, W&N, etc.)

[Gater]

Coaching changes are obviously huge, but the timing of Hunt coming in coincided with Colgate's junior and senior classes not having the depth of talent of current (or previous) classes. Colgate was banged up and young for Biddle's last year and young (especially at QB) for Hunt's first season. Colgate gave away more games in Hunt's first year than the team had in years, but I'm not sure how much of that was on the coach versus young players not being able to put together four good quarters.

Fordham seems loaded to me--certainly better than last year. That was a young team that had lost two really good QB's and a ton of receivers. This year's Fordham team gets back the maybe most underrated QB in the history of the league, an incredible RB, and some really good young receivers. The OL was a mess by the end of the season but an extra year will really help those guys and the D has to improve (right?). This is a team that beat Army (who brought in 49 recruits--30 with at least ** on 247 Sports for all of you Patsy fans) and really only had one bad game last year.

[ngineer]

Any word from the PL schools other than LC and LU about what kind of Spring Game there will be this year? Frank seemed to say the Pards will not have a game and Andy seemed to want the ol' "Brown & White Game", but hedged about the concern over injuries. With the reduced depth, we are entering a new world.

[carney2]

Some discussion on the Lafayette board about President Byerly and her roll as Mighty Mouse - here she comes to save the day! The conventional wisdom seems to be that she only needs to be informed. I've had a number of discussions with Dr. Byerly and she's no ill-informed dummy. She knows exactly what she's doing. She is uninterested in athletics and agrees with her faculty that athletics is not a significant part of the mission of the College. As far as athletics are concerned she has moved herself from potential savior to being a major part of the problem.

[RichH2]

Some discussion on the Lafayette board about President Byerly and her roll as Mighty Mouse - here she comes to save the day! The conventional wisdom seems to be that she only needs to be informed. I've had a number of discussions with Dr. Byerly and she's no ill-informed dummy. She knows exactly what she's doing. She is uninterested in athletics and agrees with her faculty that athletics is not a significant part of the mission of the College. As far as athletics are concerned she has moved herself from potential savior to being a major part of the problem.
Disappointing. Up to the alumni alone to force the issue. If they will,can they succeed? Hope so. Good luck .

[carney2]

Disappointing. Up to the alumni alone to force the issue. If they will,can they succeed? Hope so. Good luck .

If you see a way to make that happen and "force the issue," please share. Current status:

Since about 1980 the College has had weak leadership that created a power vacuum. The faculty leaped into the void and now have more power than at probably any other Patriot League institution. The faculty is decidedly anti-athletics and their focus is especially anti-football.

The Board of Trustees are a bunch of check writing yes-men/women who have shown no interest in athletics.

Influential pro-athletic alumni have made their points over the years by (primarily) resigning from the Board of Trustees. This, in my opinion, has proven counter productive by removing most of the pro-athletic voices from the Board.

The Board of Trustees is appointed, not elected. This presents a major roadblock for any group attempting to gain a place at the table.

To the best of my knowledge no one in authority is pro-athletics at this time.

[RichH2]

If you see a way to make that happen and "force the issue," please share. Current status:

Since about 1980 the College has had weak leadership that created a power vacuum. The faculty leaped into the void and now have more power than at probably any other Patriot League institution. The faculty is decidedly anti-athletics and their focus is especially anti-football.

The Board of Trustees are a bunch of check writing yes-men/women who have shown no interest in athletics.

Influential pro-athletic alumni have made their points over the years by (primarily) resigning from the Board of Trustees. This, in my opinion, has proven counter productive by removing most of the pro-athletic voices from the Board.

The Board of Trustees is appointed, not elected. This presents a major roadblock for any group attempting to gain a place at the table.

To the best of my knowledge no one in authority is pro-athletics at this time.
Bleak future . Any hope of organizing alumni presdure outside usual channels?

[ngineer]

Sorry to be reading this, but from my "dealings" with the LC administration in Greek matters, I am not surprised. Unfortunately, the Faculty does seem to have more influence than at other PL schools, and most would prefer to see LC in the mold of a Swarthmore or Haverford. Even though it's been about 20 years since Rothkopf, it seems his tentacles still exist. Bringing Byerly in from a small NE college was a signal, compare to LU bringing in Simon from Virginia. Two schools on two different paths.

[carney2]

Bleak future . Any hope of organizing alumni presdure outside usual channels?

There is always hope, but the key questions are (1) how to get it organized, and (2) is there enough interest to make a real stand? My previous posts highlight that the problems at Lafayette are systemic and that something like hiring a new football coach, although probably achieving some immediate short term results, is not a real solution to the problem. "Bleak future" indeed.

[CFBfan]

Colgate has made it official: Only 10 games and from opening day thru Nov 5th only 2 at home and only 4 total @ home. Awful job!!!!

2016 Colgate Football Schedule
Sept. 2 at Syracuse
Sept. 17 at Yale
Sept. 24 at Richmond
Oct. 1 CORNELL (Homecoming)
Oct. 8 at Lehigh *
Oct. 15 at Bucknell *
Oct. 29 HOLY CROSS * (Family Weekend)
Nov. 5 at Fordham *
Nov. 12 LAFAYETTE *
Nov. 19 GEORGETOWN *

* Patriot League.

[carney2]

Colgate has made it official: Only 10 games and from opening day thru Nov 5th only 2 at home and only 4 total @ home. Awful job!!!!

2016 Colgate Football Schedule
Sept. 2 at Syracuse
Sept. 17 at Yale
Sept. 24 at Richmond
Oct. 1 CORNELL (Homecoming)
Oct. 8 at Lehigh *
Oct. 15 at Bucknell *
Oct. 29 HOLY CROSS * (Family Weekend)
Nov. 5 at Fordham *
Nov. 12 LAFAYETTE *
Nov. 19 GEORGETOWN *

* Patriot League.

Have you ever been to Hamilton, NY? Of course not. You can't get there from [wherever you are]. It is very difficult for Colgate to get a home and home with anyone. Back in the day they used to play most of their games on the road. This is actually a pretty decent schedule. One more home game and they'd have a 50-50 split.

[Andy]

Demonstrating Byerly's and the LC community's lack of interest in the football program, over the last 3 years the budget has been increased by over $800,000 to $5.5 million - second highest in the Patriot League.

[CFBfan]

Have you ever been to Hamilton, NY? Of course not. You can't get there from [wherever you are]. It is very difficult for Colgate to get a home and home with anyone. Back in the day they used to play most of their games on the road. This is actually a pretty decent schedule. One more home game and they'd have a 50-50 split.

Yes, I've been many times, sorry to contradict your know-it-allness, in fact every home game the last 4 years.
gate had a home and home with Bryant the gate dropped for a yet unexplained reason.
one more home game and it would be 5 home 6 away.....too much scotch while responding?
ask players, especially Sr's if they think 4 home games their final year is "actually pretty decent"

[Gater]

Pretty sure Carney isn't claiming to know anything more than this:
http://www.usingenglish.com/reference/idioms/you+can't+get+there+from+here.html

Colgate's schedule would be perfect if it included the home Bryant game that was dropped. Dropping it was a mistake and a 10 game schedule is a bummer. The upside of it is that they play Syracuse--which is 45 minutes away.

[CFBfan]

[QUOTE=Gater;2329720]Pretty sure Carney isn't claiming to know anything more than this:

carney's statement: Originally Posted by carney2 http://www.anygivensaturday.com/images/SeamusLight/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.anygivensaturday.com/showthread.php?p=2329626#post2329626) Have you ever been to Hamilton, NY? Of course not.

[Gater]

[QUOTE=Gater;2329720]Pretty sure Carney isn't claiming to know anything more than this:

carney's statement: Originally Posted by carney2 http://www.anygivensaturday.com/images/SeamusLight/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.anygivensaturday.com/showthread.php?p=2329626#post2329626) Have you ever been to Hamilton, NY? Of course not.




I don't think I can explain this joke any further.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Any possibility of bringing in a D-II school like Assumption, Pace, Bentley, LIU-C.W. Post, U. of New Haven in as a late home game? At least you'd have 11 games.

[carney2]

Yes, I've been many times, sorry to contradict your know-it-allness, in fact every home game the last 4 years.
gate had a home and home with Bryant the gate dropped for a yet unexplained reason.
one more home game and it would be 5 home 6 away.....too much scotch while responding?
ask players, especially Sr's if they think 4 home games their final year is "actually pretty decent"

Your points are well taken, but a schedule that includes Syracuse, Yale and Richmond is, at some level, to be commended.

[carney2]

Demonstrating Byerly's and the LC community's lack of interest in the football program, over the last 3 years the budget has been increased by over $800,000 to $5.5 million - second highest in the Patriot League.

And how's that working out?

[RichH2]

And how's that working out?
Perhaps a steel cage match for Andy and carney to settle the argument :)

[aceinthehole]

Any possibility of bringing in a D-II school like Assumption, Pace, Bentley, LIU-C.W. Post, U. of New Haven in as a late home game? At least you'd have 11 games.

Why would they schedule a D-II game (that they would have to pay for) instead of hosting Bryant for a return game the following year? It was 'Gate that dropped a home game, so they must have a reason.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Why would they schedule a D-II game (that they would have to pay for) instead of hosting Bryant for a return game the following year? It was 'Gate that dropped a home game, so they must have a reason.

Just to get to 11 games. If I'm staring at a 10 game schedule for 2016 with four home games vs. an 11 game schedule with 5 home games and a D-II. I pay for the D-II. That doesn't affect Bryant's game next year.

I don't think it's much a mystery of who dropped whom. Colgate ends up with a 10 game schedule with only four home games. Bryant gets a (paid) trip to Bozeman. Who benefited, and who got screwed?

[aceinthehole]

Just to get to 11 games. If I'm staring at a 10 game schedule for 2016 with four home games vs. an 11 game schedule with 5 home games and a D-II. I pay for the D-II. That doesn't affect Bryant's game next year.

I don't think it's much a mystery of who dropped whom. Colgate ends up with a 10 game schedule with only four home games. Bryant gets a (paid) trip to Bozeman. Who benefited, and who got screwed?

Correct LFN, it is not a mystery. Colgate dropped Bryant, as a few Colgate posters have attested on this board. Bryant benefitted and Colgate got screwed.


my understanding is that gate dropped a home & home with Bryant.

I understand that our Board of Trustees did have some input on the decision. I don't think it has anything to do with the NEC, however.

I don't disagree, good for Bryant because gate dropped them yet they picked up a game (and gate has not, kinda makes you wonder).

So I was the one who said Colgate's BOT directed athletics to get out of the Bryant home and home... because that's what I was told by a Trustee (and subsequently confirmed with athletics staff). Was told we were "working on" getting an 11th game, which sounded imminent in the Fall but hasn't happened as yet. No idea if plans fell through or I just misread how quickly we were planning to fill the hole in the schedule. Reasoning behind dropping the games was that Bryant is not a traditional opponent and that with scholarships we will go back to looking for "stretch" games when not playing our historic rivals. Certainly the Bison would qualify as a stretch!

So, as a "journalist" who covers PL football, why not do some investigation and get someone from Colgate to go on the record, instead of posting opinions and assumptions?

[Gater]

I don't think anyone from Colgate would be more honest than the posters here.

Someone who knows more about the Colgate situation can correct me but I think part of the selling of scholarships to the Colgate community was the promise that Colgate could attract better football players AND students with scholarships (I think the team GPA is the highest it's been in a while so that part might be working) and that they would also play more high profile FBS schools (Army, Navy, Syracuse) that would offset any increase in cost (while also being traditional rivals or local rivals or really strong academically) and also that Colgate would play more like-minded academic institutions at the FCS level. Colgate has added Richmond and is also playing Furman. It's no accident that these are among the best schools (academically) in their respective conferences. Bryant doesn't fit into any of these categories. I think Colgate dropped Bryant thinking they could get another home and home with some other school that fits into the above criteria and didn't. I'm not sure if Colgate screwed over Bryant to do it (the Colgate AD and the Bryant AD went to Colgate at the same time so hopefully this didn't happen) but Bryant has certainly gotten the better deal this year. Bryant does lose a home game to Colgate next year which is not great for them--especially when you see how hard it is for NEC teams to get home games with division 1 schools.

I have no idea how any of it really played out but I'm glad Bryant got a great away game and I'm bummed that Colgate is stuck with a ten game schedule with one home game in the first two months of the season (and four overall). The upside for Colgate is that the ten games Colgate does play are ideal--just not nearly as good as having a 11 game schedule with anybody coming to Hamilton early in the season.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I don't think anyone from Colgate would be more honest than the posters here.

Someone who knows more about the Colgate situation can correct me but I think part of the selling of scholarships to the Colgate community was the promise that Colgate could attract better football players AND students with scholarships (I think the team GPA is the highest it's been in a while so that part might be working) and that they would also play more high profile FBS schools (Army, Navy, Syracuse) that would offset any increase in cost (while also being traditional rivals or local rivals or really strong academically) and also that Colgate would play more like-minded academic institutions at the FCS level. Colgate has added Richmond and is also playing Furman. It's no accident that these are among the best schools (academically) in their respective conferences. Bryant doesn't fit into any of these categories. I think Colgate dropped Bryant thinking they could get another home and home with some other school that fits into the above criteria and didn't. I'm not sure if Colgate screwed over Bryant to do it (the Colgate AD and the Bryant AD went to Colgate at the same time so hopefully this didn't happen) but Bryant has certainly gotten the better deal this year. Bryant does lose a home game to Colgate next year which is not great for them--especially when you see how hard it is for NEC teams to get home games with division 1 schools.

I have no idea how any of it really played out but I'm glad Bryant got a great away game and I'm bummed that Colgate is stuck with a ten game schedule with one home game in the first two months of the season (and four overall). The upside for Colgate is that the ten games Colgate does play are ideal--just not nearly as good as having a 11 game schedule with anybody coming to Hamilton early in the season.

If it actually has played out the way you describe, then their decision to not play Bryant has damaged this senior class' season in multiple ways, by getting rid of an extra home game, making it less likely they make the FCS playoffs (if they don't win the PL title), and making it less likely they'd get a favorable draw in the FCS playoffs, even if they do win.

It's the loss of the home game, though, that I think really does disservice to the seniors. That's why I'd be big-time for Colgate scheduling a D-II. Is Bentley really not available?

[CFBfan]

If it actually has played out the way you describe, then their decision to not play Bryant has damaged this senior class' season in multiple ways, by getting rid of an extra home game, making it less likely they make the FCS playoffs (if they don't win the PL title), and making it less likely they'd get a favorable draw in the FCS playoffs, even if they do win.

It's the loss of the home game, though, that I think really does disservice to the seniors. That's why I'd be big-time for Colgate scheduling a D-II. Is Bentley really not available?

on the Sr class getting the short end...YES, that's been said a few times on Bentley of another D2...move on it's not happening

[PAllen]

Ithaca College has an open date on 9/10. You could do that game for free.

[RichH2]

Hard to imagine that Gate AD dropped the game vs Bryant unilaterally for program's image withour having a replacement. Seems doubtful to me that Bryant walks away with a money game that just fell into their laps and Gate ended up with one less home game.

[Gater]

Someone else certainly knows better than me ('83 for one). It does feel like a mistake or a miscalculation on Colgate's part but I could certainly be wrong. Ten games with road games at Syracuse, Richmond, and Yale means there is very little margin for error for making the playoffs if they don't win the PL. An 8-3 resume looks a lot better than 7-3.

The answer, of course, is to beat Syracuse week one and take it one game at a time after that...

[Gater]

I hope you're right, Rich. I'm a big fan of the 'gate AD. Think she has done an amazing job. Even if Colgate did drop the series, I can understand why even if I'm not a fan of the end result. (Not that I have anything against Bryant but I would have promised anything to the Colgate community to get scholarships.)


Hard to imagine that Gate AD dropped the game vs Bryant unilaterally for program's image withour having a replacement. Seems doubtful to me that Bryant walks away with a money game that just fell into their laps and Gate ended up with one less home game.

[aceinthehole]

Gater - thanks for your honest and seemingly informed insight.

From that, I can understand why Colgate dropped Bryant as part of a strategic change in direction (and that's perfectly acceptable). Obviously, it didn't work out as planned because they couldn't find a replacement home game this year, but if it means Colgate sign a more attractive deal with another school that's OK too. And I respect the fact that they broke off the whole deal instead of taking the home game this year and buying out of the return game. That is a respectable decision.

Bryant did what it had to do - find a replacement game - and they did by taking the $$ from Montana State. Any suggestions that Bryant did something inappropriate because they found a replacement and Colgate didn't is just not accurate. My point in this thread was to correct LFN when he puts on his Patriot League-color glasses and paints everything as an affront to the Patriot League. The reality of the world doesn't match his ill-conceived perceptions and assumptions.

Tough schedule for 'Gate, but I wish them good luck in 2016.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Gater - thanks for your honest and seemingly informed insight.

From that, I can understand why Colgate dropped Bryant as part of a strategic change in direction (and that's perfectly acceptable). Obviously, it didn't work out as planned because they couldn't find a replacement home game this year, but if it means Colgate sign a more attractive deal with another school that's OK too. And I respect the fact that they broke off the whole deal instead of taking the home game this year and buying out of the return game. That is a respectable decision.

Bryant did what it had to do - find a replacement game - and they did by taking the $$ from Montana State. Any suggestions that Bryant did something inappropriate because they found a replacement and Colgate didn't is just not accurate. My point in this thread was to correct LFN when he puts on his Patriot League-color glasses and paints everything as an affront to the Patriot League. The reality of the world doesn't match his ill-conceived perceptions and assumptions.

Tough schedule for 'Gate, but I wish them good luck in 2016.

So this was an elaborate LFN troll that proves... what? That you're right? Wait, no, you don't have any specific knowledge either. To use your words, "Any suggestions that Bryant didn't do something inappropriate is just not accurate" is equally as valid, because you give no proof yourself.

You don't know what went down any more than I do, yet you conveniently ignore the known facts - that Bryant ends up with a free trip to Montana to play a Top 25 team and an 11 game schedule and Colgate ends up with a 10 game schedule with 4 home games. One team benefitted, the other did not. It is possible that Colgate tried to do something and it backfired - but how likely is that? How often has it happened before? I'm not discounting that as a possibility. But it certainly is suspicious.

I suppose I should be flattered that I'm being trolled so bad.

[Gater]

Thanks for the shoutout, Ace. I don't know that I am right about what actually happened but I think the reasons that scenario could have happened make sense. As for Bryant, the AD is Billy Smith--he's a really good guy who played football at Colgate. Can't imagine him doing anything to screw over Colgate.

[aceinthehole]

So this was an elaborate LFN troll that proves... what? That you're right? Wait, no, you don't have any specific knowledge either. To use your words, "Any suggestions that Bryant didn't do something inappropriate is just not accurate" is equally as valid, because you give no proof yourself.

You don't know what went down any more than I do, yet you conveniently ignore the known facts - that Bryant ends up with a free trip to Montana to play a Top 25 team and an 11 game schedule and Colgate ends up with a 10 game schedule with 4 home games. One team benefitted, the other did not. It is possible that Colgate tried to do something and it backfired - but how likely is that? How often has it happened before? I'm not discounting that as a possibility. But it certainly is suspicious.

I suppose I should be flattered that I'm being trolled so bad.

My proof: An informed Colgate poster with information confirmed by the Colgate athletic department has proven your hypothesis incorrect, a fact which I am more than happy to point out to you. Yet you still incorrectly cling to the circumstances that Bryant benefited and Colgate was disadvantaged as some sort of evidence that this was all Bryant's fault. It was Colgate's strategic decision to drop the agreement with Bryant that led to the a 10-game schedule, period.

This is no more than a counterpoint to your flawed editorial comments on the topic. :)

[UNHWildcat18]

An informed Colgate poster with information confirmed by the Colgate athletic department has proven your hypothesis incorrect, a fact which I am more than happy to point out to you. Yet you still incorrectly cling to the circumstances that Bryant benefited and Colgate was disadvantaged as some sort of evidence that this was all Bryant's fault. It was Colgate's strategic decision to drop the agreement with Bryant that led to the a 10-game schedule, period.

This is no more than a counterpoint to your flawed editorial comments on the topic. :)

Speaking of Bryant Ace, do you think with their new athletic center in the endzone, plus the IPF that they will pull a Monmouth and ditch the NEC for football? I don't see the point of all of that to stay at 40. I wouldn't be surprised if they added on to the stadium as well, the homecoming game was at 8k when the stadium is 3.5k

[aceinthehole]

Speaking of Bryant Ace, do you think with their new athletic center in the endzone, plus the IPF that they will pull a Monmouth and ditch the NEC for football? I don't see the point of all of that to stay at 40. I wouldn't be surprised if they added on to the stadium as well, the homecoming game was at 8k when the stadium is 3.5k

I don't think so. The 3 teams most likely to leave the NEC are Bryant, CCSU, and Wagner, but they don't have any real options right now.

Bryant - They are certainly investing in athletics and likely want to be in a better league than the NEC, but right now their options are limited. If Colgate (and others) in the Patriot League don't look at Bryant as quality non-conference opponent, then I can't see them ever extending the Bulldogs an invite in football, or all-sports. Bryant isn't getting an invite from the CAA or CAA football anytime soon, so IMO, I don't think they really have anyplace to go. I highly doubt they are interested in a MAAC/Big South combo like Monmouth, but you'd have to ask a Bryant fan with more insight into the program.

CCSU - The Blue Devils have just 1 realistic option. With an invite from America East & CAA Football, they would align just like UNH, Maine, Albany and SBU. An all-sports invite from the CAA is just not realistic and the PL and MAAC/Big South are totally out of the question. So until the AE-4 really go to the table for CCSU, its likely we stay put.

Wagner - Was rumored to have considered leaving the NEC for the MAAC when Monmouth and Quinnipiac bolted. At the time, didn't have the funding to support scholly football. With their recent roster/budget management to a become bowl eligible opponent and the scheduling of multiple FBS teams, it is entirely possible they could follow the Monmouth route to MAAC/Big South. However, I don't think that is an ideal conference for either MU or Wagner to play football in the long term, therefore I would guess they also hold out in the NEC for a while.

[UNHWildcat18]

I don't think so. The 3 teams most likely to leave the NEC are Bryant, CCSU, and Wagner, but they don't have any real options right now.

Bryant - They are certainly investing in athletics and likely want to be in a better league than the NEC, but right now their options are limited. If Colgate (and others) in the Patriot League don't look at Bryant as quality non-conference opponent, then I can't see them ever extending the Bulldogs an invite in football, or all-sports. Bryant isn't getting an invite from the CAA or CAA football anytime soon, so IMO, I don't think they really have anyplace to go. I highly doubt they are interested in a MAAC/Big South combo like Monmouth, but you'd have to ask a Bryant fan with more insight into the program.

CCSU - The Blue Devils have just 1 realistic option. With an invite from America East & CAA Football, they would align just like UNH, Maine, Albany and SBU. An all-sports invite from the CAA is just not realistic and the PL and MAAC/Big South are totally out of the question. So until the AE-4 really go to the table for CCSU, its likely we stay put.

Wagner - Was rumored to have considered leaving the NEC for the MAAC when Monmouth and Quinnipiac bolted. At the time, didn't have the funding to support scholly football. With their recent roster/budget management to a become bowl eligible opponent and the scheduling of multiple FCS teams, it is entirely possible they could follow the Monmouth route to MAAC/Big South. However, I don't think that is an ideal conference for either MU or Wagner to play football in the long term, therefore I would guess they also hold out in the NEC for a while.


Great input as always, you mentioned the AE/CAAFB for CCSU. Unfortunately I wouldn't see that happening for either ccsu or bryant. I could see if either of them wanted to go to 63 and the NEC denied them associate membership going to the big south and staying in the NEC for the rest of sports or even AE/Big South football. Not sure where the NEC schools are at but I really expect bryant to install lights turf field maybe more seating and move to 63 within 5 years.

[aceinthehole]

Great input as always, you mentioned the AE/CAAFB for CCSU. Unfortunately I wouldn't see that happening for either ccsu or bryant. I could see if either of them wanted to go to 63 and the NEC denied them associate membership going to the big south and staying in the NEC for the rest of sports or even AE/Big South football. Not sure where the NEC schools are at but I really expect bryant to install lights turf field maybe more seating and move to 63 within 5 years.

I agree, based on the current conference situation, the AE/CAA Football combo is very unlikely for Bryant or CCSU, that's why I see both teams staying in the NEC.

It is more likely that the NEC lifts the 40 scholly cap sometime in the near future. I just don't envision any realistic scenario for Bryant or CCSU joining the Big South for football just to offer 63 scholarships. As Wagner has proven, NEC rules allow our football programs to be a "bowl eligible opponent" through a combo of 40 schollys and other aid - this is likely the route they rest of the league will take.

[Libertine]

Great input as always, you mentioned the AE/CAAFB for CCSU. Unfortunately I wouldn't see that happening for either ccsu or bryant. I could see if either of them wanted to go to 63 and the NEC denied them associate membership going to the big south and staying in the NEC for the rest of sports or even AE/Big South football. Not sure where the NEC schools are at but I really expect bryant to install lights turf field maybe more seating and move to 63 within 5 years.

Just for the sake of reference, this is exactly what happened with Monmouth. Monmouth chose to move to the MAAC for all other sports but needed a home for football and the NEC denied MU associate membership. Lacking other real options, the Hawks ended up in the Big South. If I recall correctly, the specific reason that the NEC commissioner denied Monmouth was because Bryant and St. Francis were both considering the same maneuver -- to the America East and MAAC, respectively -- and the NEC was drawing a line in the sand in order to protect the playoff autobid.

[aceinthehole]

Just for the sake of reference, this is exactly what happened with Monmouth. Monmouth chose to move to the MAAC for all other sports but needed a home for football and the NEC denied MU associate membership. Lacking other real options, the Hawks ended up in the Big South. If I recall correctly, the specific reason that the NEC commissioner denied Monmouth was because Bryant and St. Francis were both considering the same maneuver -- to the America East and MAAC, respectively -- and the NEC was drawing a line in the sand in order to protect the playoff autobid.

Yes, I do think the NEC was trying to protect its remaining members by denying Monmouth affiliate status in the NEC for football. But as you know, MU has a 5-year contract agreement with the Big South must be renewed. It is obviously not a long-term solution for the Hawks and I don't think that route is what any other NEC is willing to take the same arraignment.

Also, Wagner was rumored to join Monmouth and Quinnipiac to the MAAC, but I don't know of any credible news that Saint Francis was looking to leave or was being vetted by any other conferences.

[bison137]

Just for the sake of reference, this is exactly what happened with Monmouth. Monmouth chose to move to the MAAC for all other sports but needed a home for football and the NEC denied MU associate membership. Lacking other real options, the Hawks ended up in the Big South. If I recall correctly, the specific reason that the NEC commissioner denied Monmouth was because Bryant and St. Francis were both considering the same maneuver -- to the America East and MAAC, respectively -- and the NEC was drawing a line in the sand in order to protect the playoff autobid.


Do do you have a source for St. Francis to the MAAC? I would give that less than a 1% chance of happening. St. Francis is located VERY FAR from other MAAC schools, has a small gym, and a weak basketball program. I don't think there is even a remote chance the MAAC would consider them.