The AGS Poll...a quick reminder

[ursus arctos horribilis]

There is one final vote. It will open tomorrow after the game ends and run until Monday morning as per usual. Please don't forget this over the weekend if you are a registered voter in good standing.

I will also be sending the email as I usually do but just wanted to catch some eyes for this if we can a bit early.

[grizband]

I'll vote if i can, but think I'm out

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[ursus arctos horribilis]

I'll vote if i can, but think I'm out

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Well, I haven't looked yet, but if you've made every other vote or have the preseason mulligan to reach perfection this is a heck of a bad time to miss a vote.

I want to throw up as many reminders as possible to try and help prevent that.

[kdinva]

the poll link I've saved is not working...........

[ursus arctos horribilis]

the poll link I've saved is not working...........

Yeah, the game just ended so the poll doesn't open until you see the post from AGS Poll go up...which will be momentarily.xthumbsupx

[ursus arctos horribilis]

It's open now.

[dgtw]

I think I know who the unanimous #1 will be.


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[BisonFan02]

I think I know who the unanimous #1 will be.


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The real question is....who's #s 2-5ish.

[Winindy]

I think 2 was earned by JSU. 3-5 is interesting.

[BisonFan02]

I think 2 was earned by JSU. 3-5 is interesting.

They have? (little bit of devils advocate here)

[Bisonator]

The real question is....who's #s 2-5ish.

That's correct. I don't think JSU is as bad as they were today obviously but not sure they should be #2 either. It's so hard to judge their overall body of work with all the weaklings they beat up on in the OVC. The brackets just seemed so lopsided too. I'm still not sure they get that far on the other side but who knows.

[clenz]

They won't be number 2 for me

[Winindy]

They have? (little bit of devils advocate here)

Yep. They were number one in the season ending AGS poll. They had an easier road in the playoff, but as the #1 seed aren't they supposed to? They got mauled today, sure. But who played better than them in the playoffs and regular season besides NDSU? UNI? They were the 2nd or 3rd best team in the playoffs. So, if you don't count anything that happened before November, maybe. But I don't know how you discount an entire season. Weaker conference schedule, yes. But they beat who was in front of them on Saturdays.

[BigHouseClosedEnd]

Is there any logic that has anybody but Richmond or UNI at #3?

[clenz]

Yep. They were number one in the season ending AGS poll. They had an easier road in the playoff, but as the #1 seed aren't they supposed to? They got mauled today, sure. But who played better than them in the playoffs and regular season besides NDSU? UNI? They were the 2nd or 3rd best team in the playoffs. So, if you don't count anything that happened before November, maybe. But I don't know how you discount an entire season. Weaker conference schedule, yes. But they beat who was in front of them on Saturdays.

There were 4 or 5 teams in NDSU's side that would have run through JSUs side every bit JSU did. That side was WEAK

[NDSU1980]

Is there any logic that has anybody but Richmond or UNI at #3?
Makes sense to have UNI at 2. Doubt Richmond can make much of an argument

[BisonFan02]

There were 4 or 5 teams in NDSU's side that would have run through JSUs side every bit JSU did. That side was WEAK

Kinda think this....I'm going to do a little bit of research and fumbling teams around tonight....won't submit till tomorrow night I don't think.

[Winindy]

Kinda think this....I'm going to do a little bit of research and fumbling teams around tonight....won't submit till tomorrow night I don't think.

Look at the bracket and tell us who.

EIU, WIU, W&M, Dayton, Montana, Dukes -- No.

PSU- I don't think they'd come close.
SDSU- Better D, but I don't think the rabbits would get the W.

ISUr- Would have be a good game. But they weren't better than Richmond.
Richmond- Would have been a good game. I'd still give the edge to JSU.
UNI- Would have had something for JSU. I would have coin-flipped this game.

So, I'd go with 2 teams that had a shot at beating JSU on the other side. Maybe 3. Roll them? 1 team.

[BisonFan02]

Look at the bracket and tell us who.

EIU, WIU, W&M, Dayton, Montana, Dukes -- No.

PSU- I don't think they'd come close.
SDSU- Better D, but I don't think the rabbits would get the W.

ISUr- Would have be a good game. But they weren't better than Richmond.
Richmond- Would have been a good game. I'd still give the edge to JSU.
UNI- Would have had something for JSU. I would have coin-flipped this game.

So, I'd go with 2 teams that had a shot at beating JSU on the other side. Maybe 3. Roll them? 1 team.

I'm not so sure about Montana....they just ran into a buzzsaw in Fargo (probably wouldn't have beaten JSU though...). That being said, that side of the bracket was an absolute fraud.

[Winindy]

I'm not so sure about Montana....they just ran into a buzzsaw in Fargo (probably wouldn't have beaten JSU though...). That being said, that side of the bracket was an absolute fraud.

I wouldn't disagree with that. They can only beat who is in front of them though.

[centennial]

I wouldn't disagree with that. They can only beat who is in front of them though.
There was definitely a little bit of politics at work. IMO UNI, Richmond probably beats JSU. Montana, SDSU, ISUr, PSU all would be close. I think it actually hurt JSU in the end. The only played 2 maybe 3 good FCS teams all year. For me the number 2 was UNI, 3 is Richmond, JSU is 4th or 5th.

[clenz]

Look at the bracket and tell us who.

EIU, WIU, W&M, Dayton, Montana, Dukes -- No.

PSU- I don't think they'd come close.
SDSU- Better D, but I don't think the rabbits would get the W.

ISUr- Would have be a good game. But they weren't better than Richmond.
Richmond- Would have been a good game. I'd still give the edge to JSU.
UNI- Would have had something for JSU. I would have coin-flipped this game.

So, I'd go with 2 teams that had a shot at beating JSU on the other side. Maybe 3. Roll them? 1 team.

Montana was scary towards the end of the year. With Gustafson back at QB that offense is scary. They just happened to run I to NDSU in Fargo. The defense had issues that would cost them vs JSU. I'd go 50/50

PSU is 50/50. They had to play a UNI team, that was realistically the second best team in the nation, in conditions that took away the advantage they may have had in the passing game and UNI ran for nearly 500 yards

SDSU is, IMO, 3 points better Oma neutral field. The D isn't quite as good as NDSU or SDSU in physicality but is damn near as good at stopping teams

ISUr - essentially SDSU but slightly worse on D. Coproch would run buck wild on anyone not named NDSU, SDSU or UNI. Because of that they are probably 3 to 6 points better

Richmond is ISU but just better all around. Individual groups aren't as talented as ISU but they are just better. I'd give them 6-9 points.

UNI might not throw was well as NDSU but they are every bit as physical and beat the hell out of you in style. They are just as bad as big, honestly faster on defense with 3 All Americans in the secondary, an All American at LB and DL. They win by 14-20.

Those were my odds vs JSU. Vs the rest of that bracket (JSU flipped with any of them) and JSU is bounces just like PSU and the team that flipped was playing today

Realistically the title game took place Dec 12th in Fargo.


Still have some playing to do with slotting but JSU was typically lower in mine than elsewhere. I wouldn't be shocked if 5 or lower happened on my final

[Winindy]

I don't have a dog in the fight, but I'm just at a loss to see why UNI should move up 8 spots in a poll that everyone thought was a pretty good snapshot of the FCS before the playoffs started.

Looking at this from the other side, who did UNI beat in the playoffs that makes them #2 in the country, EIU? You guys are saying this because they only lost by 2 touchdowns to NDSU? They also lost to 2 other fcs teams, a terrible fbs squad, and had a close game with NDSU when they playing some fairly middling football.

Sure UNI was playing great football down the stretch, but at the end of the year, in the AGS poll, 74 voters thought JSU was the best team in the country. 4 people didn't think they deserved to be #1, and they voted for NDSU as #1. The only team JSU lost to after that poll was the #2 team in the country in that same poll. UNI was #10.

[clenz]

I don't have a dog in the fight, but I'm just at a loss to see why UNI should move up 8 spots in a poll that everyone thought was a pretty good snapshot of the FCS before the playoffs started.

Looking at this from the other side, who did UNI beat in the playoffs that makes them #2 in the country, EIU? You guys are saying this because they only lost by 2 touchdowns to NDSU? They also lost to 2 other fcs teams, a terrible fbs squad, and had a close game with NDSU when they playing some fairly middling football.

Sure UNI was playing great football down the stretch, but at the end of the year, in the AGS poll, 74 voters thought JSU was the best team in the country. 4 people didn't think they deserved to be #1, and they voted for NDSU as #1. The only team JSU lost to after that poll was the #2 team in the country in that same poll. UNI was #10.
A large number of voters still vote based on record.

UNI runs through the OVC undefeated as well.

[PantherRob82]

I don't have a dog in the fight, but I'm just at a loss to see why UNI should move up 8 spots in a poll that everyone thought was a pretty good snapshot of the FCS before the playoffs started.

Looking at this from the other side, who did UNI beat in the playoffs that makes them #2 in the country, EIU? You guys are saying this because they only lost by 2 touchdowns to NDSU? They also lost to 2 other fcs teams, a terrible fbs squad, and had a close game with NDSU when they playing some fairly middling football.

Sure UNI was playing great football down the stretch, but at the end of the year, in the AGS poll, 74 voters thought JSU was the best team in the country. 4 people didn't think they deserved to be #1, and they voted for NDSU as #1. The only team JSU lost to after that poll was the #2 team in the country in that same poll. UNI was #10.

I didn't vote UNI #2, but your reasoning is flawed. UNI made it a round further than they were supposed to and might have made the semis if matched up against anyone not named NDSU.

[centennial]

I don't have a dog in the fight, but I'm just at a loss to see why UNI should move up 8 spots in a poll that everyone thought was a pretty good snapshot of the FCS before the playoffs started.

Looking at this from the other side, who did UNI beat in the playoffs that makes them #2 in the country, EIU? You guys are saying this because they only lost by 2 touchdowns to NDSU? They also lost to 2 other fcs teams, a terrible fbs squad, and had a close game with NDSU when they playing some fairly middling football.

Sure UNI was playing great football down the stretch, but at the end of the year, in the AGS poll, 74 voters thought JSU was the best team in the country. 4 people didn't think they deserved to be #1, and they voted for NDSU as #1. The only team JSU lost to after that poll was the #2 team in the country in that same poll. UNI was #10.

This is certainly interesting. Do you rate the body of work? Or do you rate how strong the team is at the end of the year? IMO it should be the latter. UNI was leading NDSU at halftime. Truth is if NDSU loans them Cole Davis (Easton Stick backup) they probably beat NDSU. All Richmond, UNI, and Montana played in a much harder environment than JSU. I think JSU deserves a top 5 rank. However, anymore fails to acknowledge that 1 side of the bracket was heavily skewed with good teams.

[Winindy]

I didn't vote UNI #2, but your reasoning is flawed. UNI made it a round further than they were supposed to and might have made the semis if matched up against anyone not named NDSU.

JSU didn't lose to any not named NDSU either. UNI lost to Western Illinois. I'm not sure that Clenz could make the argument that they couldn't lose to JSU in the OVC or the playoffs.

[PantherRob82]

JSU didn't lose to any not named NDSU either. UNI lost to Western Illinois. I'm not sure that Clenz could make the argument that they couldn't lose to JSU in the OVC or the playoffs.

So if UNI would have won the national championship today, you would not have ranked them number one because they were ranked number 10 in the pre playoff poll and had 4 losses?

[Winindy]

I would have. They didn't though. It's not about what could have happened or might have happened.

[PantherRob82]

I would have. They didn't though. It's not about what could have happened or might have happened.

Okay, well we aren't talking about the number one position. Its the same exact logic. How good of football where they playing at the end of the season in the playoffs? Just because the Gamecocks played in the final game doesn't mean that they were the next best team.

[Winindy]

Just curious, what are the other voters thinking outside of the OVC or MVFC fans?

[clenz]

JSU didn't lose to any not named NDSU either. UNI lost to Western Illinois. I'm not sure that Clenz could make the argument that they couldn't lose to JSU in the OVC or the playoffs.
Could? Sure. UNI is known for losing to inferior opponents.

I could, rather easily, make a case for NDSU losing to UNI as well.

[semobison]

I usually don't comment on poll threads but I admit that I enjoy reading them. UNI was our toughest game in this years playoffs. ISUr was our toughest opponent in Frisco and SDSU took us to the wire in the playoffs last year. Take it for what it's worth but most of our OOC playoff games have been easy wins except for our rematch games with GSU and CC. That being said, you don't plan on making up AGS poll runner up tee shirts, right Clenz!

[clenz]

I usually don't comment on poll threads but I admit that I enjoy reading them. UNI was our toughest game in this years playoffs. ISUr was our toughest opponent in Frisco and SDSU took us to the wire in the playoffs last year. Take it for what it's worth but most of our OOC playoff games have been easy wins except for our rematch games with GSU and CC. That being said, you don't plan on making up AGS poll runner up tee shirts, right Clenz!
Nope.

If you ain't first, you're last.

[clenz]

On that same note, though, check the link


http://www.anygivensaturday.com/showthread.php?179581-A-Radial-Bracket-Shirt-(clenzy-s-idea-on-a-shirt)

[Winindy]

On that same note, though, check the link


http://www.anygivensaturday.com/showthread.php?179581-A-Radial-Bracket-Shirt-(clenzy-s-idea-on-a-shirt)

I can endorse this.

[JSUSoutherner]

I could, rather easily, make a case for NDSU losing to UNI as well.
Is that a #ButtNDSU argument?

[clenz]

Is that a #ButtNDSU argument?
Essentially....

Except UNI has beaten NDSU more than any other program since they moved D1...

Random thought, is UNI the only FCS program to beat NDSU more than once (or twice) since they joined D1?

I would assume UNI is, for sure, the only one to beat NDSU 4 times.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

I think UNI is very good. I am not sure they are/were better than JSU though.

The bracket bitching and sides being tougher has zero effect on me and should probably set aside or at least not given a lot of weight in my opinion.

The 2,3 side is supposed to be tougher...it is set up that way purposely as was already spoken a couple of times.

Also the ol' "this team played NDSU tougher in the playoffs" **** is for dummies. We've seen for years now how little that actually menas. Sometimes you get a good roll against the good team, sometimes you don't and you take a beating. It has almost nothing to do with what would happen if two teams losing to the champ played each other.

But, if it gives you some solace, good for you I guess. It means nothing though.xthumbsupx

[Go...gate]

When will the results be out?

[Catatonic]

Just curious, what are the other voters thinking outside of the OVC or MVFC fans?


As an SLC fan, I am thinking....1. NDSU 2-25 A bunch of other schools. I don't have time to do the research necessary to rank them for the final poll so I will opt out...the first poll I have missed this year, I believe. But seriously, NDSU has established itself at the top of the heap and the MVFC tops the pecking order for conferences. Congrats to them. The rest of us need to elevate our game.

[mmiller_34]

Essentially....

Except UNI has beaten NDSU more than any other program since they moved D1...

Random thought, is UNI the only FCS program to beat NDSU more than once (or twice) since they joined D1?

I would assume UNI is, for sure, the only one to beat NDSU 4 times.

SDSU has beaten them 3 times. 2007, 2008, 2009. -- 4 if you want to count 2004 (our first transitional year, but the first Dakota Marker game.

[Catatonic]

Essentially....

Except UNI has beaten NDSU more than any other program since they moved D1...

Random thought, is UNI the only FCS program to beat NDSU more than once (or twice) since they joined D1?

I would assume UNI is, for sure, the only one to beat NDSU 4 times.

Warm up games during the season? NDSU seems to use the regular season to get ready for the playoffs.

[IBleedYellow]

Warm up games during the season? NDSU seems to use the regular season to get ready for the playoffs.
Not even close to warm up games.

The Valley is a grinder. If you don't respect the opponent, you lose. USD can attest to that.

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[Catsfan90]

If ISU-r hadnt crapped the bed against Richmond, I was plannong on having them in my top 3. Now, I have a pretty good idea of my top 5. As for UNH I honestly planned on dropping them from my top 25 even though they "Made the playoffs". Anyone else have thoughts on that?

[centennial]

If ISU-r hadnt crapped the bed against Richmond, I was plannong on having them in my top 3. Now, I have a pretty good idea of my top 5. As for UNH I honestly planned on dropping them from my top 25 even though they "Made the playoffs". Anyone else have thoughts on that?
I respect UNH, but they took North Dakota's spot. Sagarin has UNH at 165 which is probably among the lowest at large teams I've seen in the playoffs.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

As an SLC fan, I am thinking....1. NDSU 2-25 A bunch of other schools. I don't have time to do the research necessary to rank them for the final poll so I will opt out...the first poll I have missed this year, I believe. But seriously, NDSU has established itself at the top of the heap and the MVFC tops the pecking order for conferences. Congrats to them. The rest of us need to elevate our game.

If you have made every vote and are skipping the final and the poll perfection for this year I really don't understand having the discipline for a season and then saying "**** it" at the end?

Especially wehn it is playoffs is all you have to really look at for most of the poll. There is never a time in the season when you have so much interplay and the ranking is easier than it is right now. Sure, you still grapple with things but you do so with more certainty than any other poll.

It is not complete certainty but still...

[Catsfan90]

I respect UNH, but they took North Dakota's spot. Sagarin has UNH at 165 which is probably among the lowest at large teams I've seen in the playoffs.
Yah I can't really disagree there. I'm beginning to see it was most likely a legacy choice.

[BisonFan02]

Yah I can't really disagree there. I'm beginning to see it was most likely a regionalization choice.

FIFY....someone had to get paired up with Colgate.

[CasualFan]

My computer that has all my season notes went belly up. I've got a final ranking based on my last poll and the playoff performance, but I really don't want to go through each team's schedule, look at their best wins and worst losses, and redo everything for the year. In particular, my Colgate vote rank is a complete stab in the dark.

Blech.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Just finished mine! I did not use the playoffs as my main determining factor. In fact, 3 playoff teams did not make my final poll....

[BisonFan02]

Just finished mine! I did not use the playoffs as my main determining factor......

"Founded on", private versus normal versus land grant? :D

[chattownmocs]

I prefer the method of always rankings teams that advanced higher further.

[Catsfan90]

FIFY....someone had to get paired up with Colgate.
Are you seriously accusing the comitee of making decisions based on regionalization?? Shame on you :eek:

[ursus arctos horribilis]

My computer that has all my season notes went belly up. I've got a final ranking based on my last poll and the playoff performance, but I really don't want to go through each team's schedule, look at their best wins and worst losses, and redo everything for the year. In particular, my Colgate vote rank is a complete stab in the dark.

Blech.

I'm not sure why that is necessary? Your last ballot has what you thought. Your next ballot should containg what or who has changed your mind in the playoffs. It should really be that easy.

Who had the best win and worst loss doesn't mean anything and is not required. We all know who had the biggest win.

[Twentysix]

I prefer the method of always rankings teams that advanced higher further.

This method is poor IMO.

Georgia Southern was the 2nd best team in the FCS during the second NDSU championship run. UNI was the 2nd best this year. Sometimes the brackets get stacked on one side. Sometimes the 2nd round games are stacked...

[mvemjsunpx]

This method is poor IMO.

Georgia Southern was the 2nd best team in the FCS during the second NDSU championship run. UNI was the 2nd best this year. Sometimes the brackets get stacked on one side. Sometimes the 2nd round games are stacked...

I agree that method is poor, but… you put a 5-loss team #2? xeyebrowx

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

I agree that method is poor, but… you put a 5-loss team #2? xeyebrowx


UNI would have beaten every team the Bison played in the playoffs IMO. Great defense.

[KPSUL]

UNI would have beaten every team the Bison played in the playoffs IMO. Great defense.

Conference opponents are far more likely to play the strongest teams tougher. This is true in FCS, FBS and the NFL. They are just more familar with teams they play frequently.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

Conference opponents are far more likely to play the strongest teams tougher. This is true in FCS, FBS and the NFL. They are just more familar with teams they play frequently.


Agree but UNI's defense is right behind NDSU's.

That's what is great about opinions, we all have one. I'm just right, though....:D

[centennial]

Conference opponents are far more likely to play the strongest teams tougher. This is true in FCS, FBS and the NFL. They are just more familar with teams they play frequently.
They also beat Portland State which was the best Big Sky team IMO with 2 FBS wins.

[KPSUL]

I respect UNH, but they took North Dakota's spot. Sagarin has UNH at 165 which is probably among the lowest at large teams I've seen in the playoffs.

Selecting the final couple of at larges was a tough decision. It always is. I'm not going to re-hash all that, but I really don't see the 7 point loss to Colgate as a reason to change where you had UNH at the end of the regular season either way. A close home playoff loss to a respectable opponent doesn't provide anymore info on UNH than you had on November 22nd.

[mvemjsunpx]

UNI would have beaten every team the Bison played in the playoffs IMO. Great defense.

OK, but you can't just throw out the rest of the season. UNI had 4 FCS losses, compared to JSU's 1, Charleston Southern's 1, Illinois State's 2, etc. They also lost to ISU(r) and got no further in the playoffs.

I had the Panthers at #6, and I believe that's the highest I've ever placed a team with their kind of record at the end of the year.

[KPSUL]

They also beat Portland State which was the best Big Sky team IMO with 2 FBS wins.

They also had 4 regular season losses. I've got them significantly higher than any other team with 4 regular season losses, that game is certainly a factor in that ranking. But #2 is not in the realm of reasonable.

[Bisonator]

OK, but you can't just throw out the rest of the season. UNI had 4 FCS losses, compared to JSU's 1, Charleston Southern's 1, Illinois State's 2, etc. They also lost to ISU(r) and got no further in the playoffs.

I had the Panthers at #6, and I believe that's the highest I've ever placed a team with their kind of record at the end of the year.
Yeah well how many losses would those teams have if they played in the MVFC? SOS matters to most of us.

[clenz]

They also had 4 regular season losses. I've got them significantly higher than any other team with 4 regular season losses, that game is certainly a factor in that ranking. But #2 is not in the realm of reasonable.
UNI's losses

@ Iowa State FBS
@ NDSU by 3
@ Illinois State by 8
vs Western Illinois by 6 (not a good loss)
@ NDSU in the playoffs by 10...with a halftime lead


Yeah...obviously that's on par with getting to play Eastern Illinois (we saw what UNI did to them), UT-Martin, SEMO, etc... every week during the year...

It's why no one ever trusts the OVC/MEAC. They always have great records a the top but the SOS is **** and it shows as soon as they start playing quality opponents.

[chattownmocs]

This method is poor IMO.

Georgia Southern was the 2nd best team in the FCS during the second NDSU championship run. UNI was the 2nd best this year. Sometimes the brackets get stacked on one side. Sometimes the 2nd round games are stacked...

No they werent, and no they werent.

[chattownmocs]

I watched the uni and jsu games. If ndsu had their other qb the jsu game would have been a low scoring, close game.