Group of Lehigh football players arrested

[crusader11]

This is about a month old, but I just caught wind of it today from reading this deadspin article: http://deadspin.com/cops-lehigh-football-players-broke-into-wrong-house-1747277277?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_twitte r&utm_source=deadspin_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow



What's interesting, and a little unsettling, is that Noah Robb, one of the players implicated in the trespassing and assault, was Lehigh's second leading tackler against Colgate, the weekend after this crime took place. What did Andy Coen know and when did he know it?

[KPSUL]

Surprising! I always assumed the only crime a Patriot League guy would likely commit is tax evasion or insider trading.

[Franks Tanks]

This is about a month old, but I just caught wind of it today from reading this deadspin article: http://deadspin.com/cops-lehigh-football-players-broke-into-wrong-house-1747277277?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_twitte r&utm_source=deadspin_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow



What's interesting, and a little unsettling, is that Noah Robb, one of the players implicated in the trespassing and assault, was Lehigh's second leading tackler against Colgate, the weekend after this crime took place. What did Andy Coen know and when did he know it?





The news of the others just came out yesterday (or today). We only knew the name of the main culprit prior, and knew there were others involved in some way, but no details.

As you note this does raise an interesting question as it was reported before the end of the season that multiple players were involved, yet Lehigh did not suspend anyone other than Ginters (or whatever his name may be). It is very likely that the school and the athletic department were aware of the involvement of the other players weeks ago, even though they weren't yet charged. Is it right to allow these kids to play the final 2 games of the season as criminal charges were pending? Even if charges are dropped, are these actions kosher with team and school rules? Lehigh has some explaining to do.

[Neighbor2]

Pretty low-rent effort to malign a fellow conference member, crusader11. Young people screw-up and usually pay a price for it. That's happened.

[Franks Tanks]

Pretty low-rent effort to malign a fellow conference member, crusader11. Young people screw-up and usually pay a price for it. That's happened.

It is news worthy. The questions is will these young people pay a price? Lehigh hasn't made any sort of announcement regarding their status from what I can tell.

I hope these young men use this as a learning experience to grow as people. I also hope that are held accountable for their actions by the law , the school and the football program. This incident shouldn't define them, but a message needs to be sent that this behavior is NOT ok.

[Sycamore62]

did they sell weed to a cop? if so they are fine

[BisonFan02]

Pretty low-rent effort to malign a fellow conference member, crusader11. Young people screw-up and usually pay a price for it. That's happened.

Disagree completely. Its definitely newsworthy if Coen knew about the arrests and still played the players in question.

[Lehigh'98]

did they sell weed to a cop? if so they are fine


No, in this case, legitimate laws were broken.

[BisonFan02]

Slightly off topic....hypothetically, if Coen DID know about this and turned a blind eye to it....is that enough to fire a coach in the PL/@Lehigh?

[Franks Tanks]

Disagree completely. Its definitely newsworthy if Coen knew about the arrests and still played the players in question.


There were 2 games left in the season after the incident, and all but one of these guys were allowed to play out the season. I do not believe the others were arrested or charged until this week, but he would most certainly know these guys were involved to some degree when the incident happened.

[crusader11]

Pretty low-rent effort to malign a fellow conference member, crusader11. Young people screw-up and usually pay a price for it. That's happened.

It's in the news. Not like I am trying to break this story.

Will be interesting to see how this plays out. I find it extraordinarily hard to believe Andy Coen wasn't aware which players were involved in this break-in and assault before Colgate's game. This doesn't smell good.

[Franks Tanks]

Slightly off topic....hypothetically, if Coen DID know about this and turned a blind eye to it....is that enough to fire a coach in the PL/@Lehigh?

http://www.lehighvalleylive.com/bethlehem/index.ssf/2015/11/lehigh_football_player_charged.html

Back on November 8th/9th it was known that multiple team members were involved in this incident. The article above is from the 16th and states that University Police were immediately notified that multiple members of the team were involved. The coach knew. The AD knew.

[BisonFan02]

http://www.lehighvalleylive.com/bethlehem/index.ssf/2015/11/lehigh_football_player_charged.html

Back on November 8th/9th it was known that multiple team members were involved in this incident. The article above is from the 16th and states that University Police were immediately notified that multiple members of the team were involved. The coach knew. The AD knew.

Soooooooooooooooooo............is Coen done (in your opinion)?

[Franks Tanks]

It's in the news. Not like I am trying to break this story.

Will be interesting to see how this plays out. I find it extraordinarily hard to believe Andy Coen wasn't aware which players were involved in this break-in and assault before Colgate's game. This doesn't smell good.

"University police were told soon after that members of Lehigh's football team broke into the home, police said. They were seeking retribution for an assault Nov. 5 of a fraternity president, according to court records.Police didn't name the fraternity and didn't name any other Lehigh players.
But police Chief Mark DiLuzio said other players were in the home and police are in the process of interviewing them. Police know the identities and it's possible others will be charged, he added."
-from the November 16th news paper article
http://www.lehighvalleylive.com/beth...r_charged.html (http://www.lehighvalleylive.com/bethlehem/index.ssf/2015/11/lehigh_football_player_charged.html)

He absolutely knew who was involved.

[Franks Tanks]

Soooooooooooooooooo............is Coen done (in your opinion)?

I have no idea!

I mean this looks really bad, but the guy's boss had to know as well. Perhaps the AD advised him not to do anything until the 5 others were charged?

[RedFlash]

My guess is that Coen and the AD will say that "we're waiting for the legal process to play out" and that any football/school related punishment will occur after that is resolved. They'll all plead down to misdemeanors, pay restitution and be suspended for a few practices in the Spring (assuming they are all underclassmen.)

[RichH2]

It is news worthy. The questions is will these young people pay a price? Lehigh hasn't made any sort of announcement regarding their status from what I can tell.

I hope these young men use this as a learning experience to grow as people. I also hope that are held accountable for their actions by the law , the school and the football program. This incident shouldn't define them, but a message needs to be sent that this behavior is NOT ok.
LU does not announce ruling until after the disciplinary proceedings are completed. An epic bout of stupidity. Lehigh has shown zero tolerance for criminal behavior. It has usually resulted in expulsion,regardless of whether or not the student is an athlete.

[RichH2]

My guess is that Coen and the AD will say that "we're waiting for the legal process to play out" and that any football/school related punishment will occur after that is resolved. They'll all plead down to misdemeanors, pay restitution and be suspended for a few practices in the Spring (assuming they are all underclassmen.)
Possible. The trespass charge is actually minor. Dont know how those will play out. The assault charge more likely to result in expulsion or advising student to withdraw before he is expelled.

[BisonFan02]

http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/ncaafb/police-lehigh-players-broke-into-wrong-house-assaulted-residents-peed-in-fridge/ar-AAgfR7l?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=iehp

Wrong house? Whoops....


Githens allegedly attacked one of the students living in the home while he was sleeping. He allegedly punched the student repeatedly and also punched holes in the wall of the home. The student suffered a concussion and a busted lip. He was treated at St. Luke's University Hospital in Fountain Hill for his injuries.
The others just stood by and yelled during the attack, court records say. Parsons also urinated in a refrigerator in the home, the records show, but he is not criminally charged with anything other than trespass.

[PAllen]

I'll say that this doesn't look good at all. Even worse is that it was the university police that held off the charging until the end of the season. If Coen/Sterrett knew the whole story before the Colgate or Lafayette game, then at least some (multiple) players should have been suspended. If Coen/Sterrett didn't know all of the details, then I'm fine with waiting for the judicial process to play out (as I am in all of these cases where the facts haven't been aired or are still in dispute). If either one of them played a roll in delaying the filing of charges, then he should be gone immediately.

[BluBengal07]

this is also thug activity. xcoffeex thug is an action, not a race. carry on gentlemen.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I'll say that this doesn't look good at all. Even worse is that it was the university police that held off the charging until the end of the season. If Coen/Sterrett knew the whole story before the Colgate or Lafayette game, then at least some (multiple) players should have been suspended. If Coen/Sterrett didn't know all of the details, then I'm fine with waiting for the judicial process to play out (as I am in all of these cases where the facts haven't been aired or are still in dispute). If either one of them played a roll in delaying the filing of charges, then he should be gone immediately.

As I mentioned on the other thread, only Robb participated in the Lafayette game. The others were either not on the roster or not huge contributors.

[LUHawker]

First, the fact that these guys went to deliver some "retribution" was just plain immature and stupid. Second, that they went to the wrong house is monumentally idiotic. Third, I'll be very disappointed if Coen and Sterrett "sat" on the situation to close out the season. I find that hard to believe given how they've managed other situations, but it does raise the question.

The only mitigating factor that I think we might consider here is something that goes back to the Duke LaCross players incident a few years ago and which Coach K. had remorse about afterwards, which is this. He said that he was disappointed that Duke, along with the police and media, immediately condemned/indicted these students before the facts were known and that the school did not "stand up" (he may have used different words) for the players at that time. Fast-forward to this situation, and perhaps, there was a level of uncertainty surrounding this that suggested no action be taken until the facts come out. These situations are all unique, but either way, the players made some decidedly questionable choices.

[JSUBison]

http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/ncaafb/police-lehigh-players-broke-into-wrong-house-assaulted-residents-peed-in-fridge/ar-AAgfR7l?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=iehp

Wrong house? Whoops....

Photos of the suspects:

http://www.nothinguncut.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/the-big-lebowski-pee-on-the-rug.jpg

[BisonFan02]

Photos of the suspects:

http://www.nothinguncut.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/the-big-lebowski-pee-on-the-rug.jpg

That fridge really tied the room together.... xlolx

[kdinva]

This is about a month old, but I just caught wind of it today from reading this deadspin article: http://deadspin.com/cops-lehigh-football-players-broke-into-wrong-house-1747277277?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_twitte r&utm_source=deadspin_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow



What's interesting, and a little unsettling, is that Noah Robb, one of the players implicated in the trespassing and assault, was Lehigh's second leading tackler against Colgate, the weekend after this crime took place. What did Andy Coen know and when did he know it?




This never made the public news, but in the Summer of 2013, one of VMI's starting defensive players was caught in downtown Lexington (I know about 24 square blocks's worth) with 3 or 4 MJ joints in the car. He was expelled from VMI for 12 months. He made good on his restitution & punishment, and re-enrolled in August of 2014, and played his final two seasons....

[Lehigh'98]

This never made the public news, but in the Summer of 2013, one of VMI's starting defensive players was caught in downtown Lexington (I know about 24 square blocks's worth) with 3 or 4 MJ joints in the car. He was expelled from VMI for 12 months. He made good on his restitution & punishment, and re-enrolled in August of 2014, and played his final two seasons....

I'm not familiar with the by laws of VMI, but that is a joke. Really, college kid smoking weed let's ruin his life over it??

[citdog]

I'm not familiar with the by laws of VMI, but that is a joke. Really, college kid smoking weed let's ruin his life over it??

Suprised VMI let him back in. Keydets and Cadets are held to standards higer than most others.

[melloware13]

Come on Lehigh, we all know that
http://pisces.bbystatic.com/image2/BestBuy_US/images/products/4980/4980442_sa.jpg;canvasHeight=194;canvasWidth=194
is not
http://www.appliance-standards.org/sites/default/files/imagecache/Product_page/urinal.jpg
or a marble wall

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Since I didn't graduate from Lehigh but still well connected this is a slippery slope. I think Githens would absolutely be gone from Temple. The others guys would be interesting. My whole thing is treating these guys in the same manner a "typical" student would be.

These actions by the others are right on the fringe imo. The fact they went to the wrong house actually makes it worse. College kids will seek "payback" for some of the dumbest things when they're drunk. Especially if there's a frat bother that's involved and there is a blind sense of loyalty. I'm sure there have been tons of retribution type cases on college campuses in the past. The violent aspect is the big problem. If the guys who went to back Githens up knew he had violent intentions then that's a bigger deal imo. If there were going along to "witness" some sort of prank or slightly over the top nonsense then that should be considered.

[Franks Tanks]

I'm not familiar with the by laws of VMI, but that is a joke. Really, college kid smoking weed let's ruin his life over it??

He probably violated the school code, so I think the punishment was reasonable. Enough to make sure the young man learned his lesson, but still allowed him to get on with his life after he made proper strides. A one year suspension from football (at least) would be appropriate for the fellows from Lehigh IMO. Guys I know got suspended for a year at Lafayette for less.

Unless the story we know so far changes quite a bit, these young men need to be punished. Breaking into a house with the intent to attack an individual is a big deal, whether or not it stemmed from some stupid fraternity incident. This wasn't a fair fight, but a planned out attack. Lehigh needs to do the right thing.

[SENOREIDA]

Imagine this... you're sitting down watching NFL Sunday Ticket, probably relaxing drinking a beer. Next thing you know someone is bashing in your face and pissing in your cold cuts.

[Pards Rule]

Imagine this... you're sitting down watching NFL Sunday Ticket, probably relaxing drinking a beer. Next thing you know someone is bashing in your face and pissing in your cold cuts.

At 3 AM? That was the time according to Bethlehem Police.

[heath]

Damn,little FCS Lehigh got involved in a FBS situation. Didn't anyone tell them? If all goes the FBS route,this will be just part of those young crazy college kids and get swept under the rug. Don't PL schools have a department aligned with the local police to do this? Really not news worthy when looking at other campuses. Do not hate, just look around.

[melloware13]

At 3 AM? That was the time according to Bethlehem Police.
How else are you going to watch every minute of every game?

[kdinva]

Suprised VMI let him back in. Keydets and Cadets are held to standards higer than most others.

xthumbsupx

[BisonFan02]

Imagine this... you're sitting down watching NFL Sunday Ticket, probably relaxing drinking a beer. Next thing you know someone is bashing in your face and pissing in your cold cuts.

Pissing "IN" your cold cuts? Dirty fellows.... xlolx

[ngineer]

http://www.lehighvalleylive.com/bethlehem/index.ssf/2015/11/lehigh_football_player_charged.html

Back on November 8th/9th it was known that multiple team members were involved in this incident. The article above is from the 16th and states that University Police were immediately notified that multiple members of the team were involved. The coach knew. The AD knew.

The question is "knew WHAT"? What was known in November was that the primary actor broke in and assaulted the student (later realizing it was the wrong house). He has admitted his conduct and also said that he was the only one who assaulted the student. We know that other students followed into the house, but none of the others have been accused of assaulting anyone. However, they accompanied the perpetrator and therefore are now charged with trespass and some "malicious mischief", which carries a fairly broad definition. With this many individuals, it does take time for the police to conduct the interviews, compare any statements, before allowing the coaches to talk to the players, otherwise, the coaches could be accused of interfering with an investigation. I would be shocked if it came out that Coen knew immediately after the incident and failed to do or tell anyone. The students, other than the perpetrator of the initial break-in and assault have not admitted to anything. They are entitled to due process. "Being present" in and of itself is not a crime, unless you can show they knew the perpetrator was going to engage in the assault ahead of time, as opposed to just confronting the person over the issue. If Coen did know and engaged in any kind of 'cover up', I would agree he should be fired; but there is no evidence of that and the rank speculation flying around is baseless unless facts are known.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

The question is "knew WHAT"? What was known in November was that the primary actor broke in and assaulted the student (later realizing it was the wrong house). He has admitted his conduct and also said that he was the only one who assaulted the student. We know that other students followed into the house, but none of the others have been accused of assaulting anyone. However, they accompanied the perpetrator and therefore are now charged with trespass and some "malicious mischief", which carries a fairly broad definition. With this many individuals, it does take time for the police to conduct the interviews, compare any statements, before allowing the coaches to talk to the players, otherwise, the coaches could be accused of interfering with an investigation. I would be shocked if it came out that Coen knew immediately after the incident and failed to do or tell anyone. The students, other than the perpetrator of the initial break-in and assault have not admitted to anything. They are entitled to due process. "Being present" in and of itself is not a crime, unless you can show they knew the perpetrator was going to engage in the assault ahead of time, as opposed to just confronting the person over the issue. If Coen did know and engaged in any kind of 'cover up', I would agree he should be fired; but there is no evidence of that and the rank speculation flying around is baseless unless facts are known.

Well said...

[Franks Tanks]

The question is "knew WHAT"? What was known in November was that the primary actor broke in and assaulted the student (later realizing it was the wrong house). He has admitted his conduct and also said that he was the only one who assaulted the student. We know that other students followed into the house, but none of the others have been accused of assaulting anyone. However, they accompanied the perpetrator and therefore are now charged with trespass and some "malicious mischief", which carries a fairly broad definition. With this many individuals, it does take time for the police to conduct the interviews, compare any statements, before allowing the coaches to talk to the players, otherwise, the coaches could be accused of interfering with an investigation. I would be shocked if it came out that Coen knew immediately after the incident and failed to do or tell anyone. The students, other than the perpetrator of the initial break-in and assault have not admitted to anything. They are entitled to due process. "Being present" in and of itself is not a crime, unless you can show they knew the perpetrator was going to engage in the assault ahead of time, as opposed to just confronting the person over the issue. If Coen did know and engaged in any kind of 'cover up', I would agree he should be fired; but there is no evidence of that and the rank speculation flying around is baseless unless facts are known.

I am not insinuating anything was covered up in anyway. It is pretty clear that didn't happen as this all hit the news pretty soon after the initial incident. However, I feel it is clear that Andy and Joe had a pretty darn good idea what happened, and Andy should've disciplined these guys immediately.

They deserve due process from law enforcement. They deserve due process for any disciplinary actions with the school. Andy does however not need to gather all the facts before determining all of these guys were involved in something they shouldn't be involved in. This is not acceptable behavior, even if the charges are dropped. Lehigh Football should be ashamed of themselves if these kids aren't punished quite severely.

[RichH2]

Well said...
+2

[sgt smash]

Imagine if Ryan Spadola hears about this...

[RichH2]

FT
To what end. So 1 senior couldn't play against Pards in a game you guys had no hope of winning.
If LU follows normal procedure all of the kids have been suspended from school. Robb as a senior wont graduate. Readmission wont occur ,if it does,until after criminal and disciplinary proceedings are concluded. What more do you want LU to do to these kids?
All due process means is fairness. Yet you proclaim that since Andy had to know bad things happened he should punish them immediately. At that point ,the interviews had not even been completed. Fairness should apply at every level.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

I am not insinuating anything was covered up in anyway. It is pretty clear that didn't happen as this all hit the news pretty soon after the initial incident. However, I feel it is clear that Andy and Joe had a pretty darn good idea what happened, and Andy should've disciplined these guys immediately.

They deserve due process from law enforcement. They deserve due process for any disciplinary actions with the school. Andy does however not need to gather all the facts before determining all of these guys were involved in something they shouldn't be involved in. This is not acceptable behavior, even if the charges are dropped. Lehigh Football should be ashamed of themselves if these kids aren't punished quite severely.

I really don't think Lehigh football is should be ashamed. IMO, this is one moron, Githens, who made a horrific error in judgment. He is almost certainly done at Lehigh and his future is severely disrupted. So his punishment should and will be severe imo.

The other guys I look at as drunken frat guys following their brother to see what he does. I'm still young enough where I can picture in my mind 7 frat guys drunk, hyped up, looking for payback at 2 am with the whole "who's with me" Animal House type deal. Before you know it 2 or 3 guys going turns into 6 or 7. Unless more info comes out I don't see the chargers amounting to much. Assuming it's proven they did nothing more than "come along" and had no knowledge of Githens ultimate intentions then I don't see anything that warrants a "severe' punishment. Perhaps some community service over the summer and a game suspension?

I would say the same thing about anyone else in the league. I was in favor of Coprich playing this year but did think he deserved 4 games...

[Lehigh'98]

Lucky for these guys the homeowner didn't have a gun nearby or this would have ended a lot worse for them.

[Neighbor2]

Lucky for these guys the homeowner didn't have a gun nearby or this would have ended a lot worse for them.

Exactly!

Like running out of a shotgun formation.

[Franks Tanks]

FT
To what end. So 1 senior couldn't play against Pards in a game you guys had no hope of winning.
If LU follows normal procedure all of the kids have been suspended from school. Robb as a senior wont graduate. Readmission wont occur ,if it does,until after criminal and disciplinary proceedings are concluded. What more do you want LU to do to these kids?
All due process means is fairness. Yet you proclaim that since Andy had to know bad things happened he should punish them immediately. At that point ,the interviews had not even been completed. Fairness should apply at every level.

You are all making excuses for the behavior of the other 6. Was a rather large error made by otherwise good kids? Yes, probably. Should their academic and football careers be ruined? No, so long as they complete the necessary punishment.

This is completely unacceptable behavior. College athletes are held to a higher standard than their regular peers. Andy should've sent a message immediately that partaking in this sort of behavior should not have been tolerated. The Senior should've known better, and if he missed the Lafayette game tough you know what.

[Franks Tanks]

I really don't think Lehigh football is should be ashamed. IMO, this is one moron, Githens, who made a horrific error in judgment. He is almost certainly done at Lehigh and his future is severely disrupted. So his punishment should and will be severe imo.

The other guys I look at as drunken frat guys following their brother to see what he does. I'm still young enough where I can picture in my mind 7 frat guys drunk, hyped up, looking for payback at 2 am with the whole "who's with me" Animal House type deal. Before you know it 2 or 3 guys going turns into 6 or 7. Unless more info comes out I don't see the chargers amounting to much. Assuming it's proven they did nothing more than "come along" and had no knowledge of Githens ultimate intentions then I don't see anything that warrants a "severe' punishment. Perhaps some community service over the summer and a game suspension?

I would say the same thing about anyone else in the league. I was in favor of Coprich playing this year but did think he deserved 4 games...

Are you serious? The intent was to break into someone's residence and "teach him lesson" for messing with their frat. Now, maybe it was meant to just scare someone and not cause bodily harm, but that is still not ok.

7 football players came charging into a person's house. This is not a slap on the wrist. Andy is a scumbag if he doesn't punish these kids.

[Cocky]

Were these players FBS transfers?

[RichH2]

You are all making excuses for the behavior of the other 6. Was a rather large error made by otherwise good kids? Yes, probably. Should their academic and football careers be ruined? No, so long as they complete the necessary punishment.

This is completely unacceptable behavior. College athletes are held to a higher standard than their regular peers. Andy should've sent a message immediately that partaking in this sort of behavior should not have been tolerated. The Senior should've known better, and if he missed the Lafayette game tough you know what.
No one is excusing their behavior. Godd Lord,"unacceptable". It was that at the very least and they will face tje consequences. My point is that fairness starts at the beginning not only at the start of proceedings. You are assuming facts. We dont know what Coen knew.about the 6 players. Githens was alreafy out. At that point from what I've read all that was known was that other players were present. What they did or did not do was not clear. IMO,Andy did the correct thing at that point..
"Andy is a scumbag if he doesn't punish these kids"
Again what more are you looking for? They are already suspended from school. They face the criminal proceedings. After which,the LU disciplinary proceedings,which can result in expulsion ,suspension for a year . Suspending them from team would be a bit disengenuous,since they aren't in school.

[REALBird]

Pissing in a guys Frigidaire and rendering that box of Arm & Hammer useless.....that's a good one. Beating the piss out of a guy while 6 of your "Road Dogs" hang in the cut, well........"
Good thing you guys don't play in the MVFC, this thing would be on page 25 instead of page 5. Enjoy that civil discussion while it lasts. xnodx

[AmsterBison]

Sounds like a clear-cut case of Evil Shenanigans.

[YoUDeeMan]

Surprising! I always assumed the only crime a Patriot League guy would likely commit is tax evasion or insider trading.


^^^^ That is a gem that should not go unmentioned! xlolx

[YoUDeeMan]

The question is "knew WHAT"? What was known in November was that the primary actor broke in and assaulted the student (later realizing it was the wrong house). He has admitted his conduct and also said that he was the only one who assaulted the student. We know that other students followed into the house, but none of the others have been accused of assaulting anyone. However, they accompanied the perpetrator and therefore are now charged with trespass and some "malicious mischief", which carries a fairly broad definition. With this many individuals, it does take time for the police to conduct the interviews, compare any statements, before allowing the coaches to talk to the players, otherwise, the coaches could be accused of interfering with an investigation. I would be shocked if it came out that Coen knew immediately after the incident and failed to do or tell anyone. The students, other than the perpetrator of the initial break-in and assault have not admitted to anything. They are entitled to due process. "Being present" in and of itself is not a crime, unless you can show they knew the perpetrator was going to engage in the assault ahead of time, as opposed to just confronting the person over the issue. If Coen did know and engaged in any kind of 'cover up', I would agree he should be fired; but there is no evidence of that and the rank speculation flying around is baseless unless facts are known.

Huh?

I might be reaching here, but if you watch someone break down a door and follow that person into the house to observe, I think you, "being present" is considered a crime. You have to absolutely know you are trespassing at the very least.

[LeopardBall10]

Huh?

I might be reaching here, but if you watch someone break down a door and follow that person into the house to observe, I think you, "being present" is considered a crime. You have to absolutely know you are trespassing at the very least.

My thoughts exactly. The deadspin article claims that all 6 of the "other" players (those who did not assist in the assault) were charged with felony criminal trespassing. According to the PA trespassing statutes, Criminal Trespass is a felony with the subsection on Simple Trespass being a misdemeanor:

§ 3503. Criminal trespass.
(a) Buildings and occupied structures.--
(1) A person commits an offense if, knowing that he is not licensed or privileged to do so, he:
(i) enters, gains entry by subterfuge or surreptitiously remains in any building or occupied structure or separately secured or occupied portion
thereof; or
(ii) breaks into any building or occupied structure or separately secured or occupied portion thereof.
(2) An offense under paragraph (1)(i) is a felony of the third degree, and an offense under paragraph (1)(ii) is a felony of the second degree.
(3) As used in this subsection:
"Breaks into." To gain entry by force, breaking, intimidation, unauthorized opening of locks, or through an opening not designed for human access.

(b.1) Simple trespasser.--
(1) A person commits an offense if, knowing that he is not licensed or privileged to do so, he enters or remains in any place for the purpose of:
(i) threatening or terrorizing the owner or occupant of the premises;
(ii) starting or causing to be started any fire upon the premises; or
(iii) defacing or damaging the premises.
(2) An offense under this subsection constitutes a summary offense.

So there is a chance that it could be plead down, but based on the hospital visit and defacing of property that may not be likely for all 6 of the accomplices. But to get back to Cluck U's point, yes just being present is a crime.

[Andy]

The question is "knew WHAT"? What was known in November was that the primary actor broke in and assaulted the student (later realizing it was the wrong house). He has admitted his conduct and also said that he was the only one who assaulted the student. We know that other students followed into the house, but none of the others have been accused of assaulting anyone. However, they accompanied the perpetrator and therefore are now charged with trespass and some "malicious mischief", which carries a fairly broad definition. With this many individuals, it does take time for the police to conduct the interviews, compare any statements, before allowing the coaches to talk to the players, otherwise, the coaches could be accused of interfering with an investigation. I would be shocked if it came out that Coen knew immediately after the incident and failed to do or tell anyone. The students, other than the perpetrator of the initial break-in and assault have not admitted to anything. They are entitled to due process. "Being present" in and of itself is not a crime, unless you can show they knew the perpetrator was going to engage in the assault ahead of time, as opposed to just confronting the person over the issue. If Coen did know and engaged in any kind of 'cover up', I would agree he should be fired; but there is no evidence of that and the rank speculation flying around is baseless unless facts are known.

"Well said" but inaccurate. The additional 6 are charged with Felony Criminal Trespass. Interviews were conducted on Nov. 9. Four of the additional 6 players made admissions, 2 took the Fifth.

[RichH2]

My thoughts exactly. The deadspin article claims that all 6 of the "other" players (those who did not assist in the assault) were charged with felony criminal trespassing. According to the PA trespassing statutes, Criminal Trespass is a felony with the subsection on Simple Trespass being a misdemeanor:


So there is a chance that it could be plead down, but based on the hospital visit and defacing of property that may not be likely for all 6 of the accomplices. But to get back to Cluck U's point, yes just being present is a crime.
Agree but one quibble. Merely being present is never a crime in and of itself. The requisite intent and actions required by the statute must be shown before presence becomes criminal.

[Gangtackle11]

Were these players FBS transfers?

No. KC Keeler coaches in Texas now. xsmiley_wix

[PAllen]

Long and short of it is that if all accusations are true, all seven should be expelled from the university. Yes, just following the guy in does make you and accessory. Did any of them try to stop the beating? Doesn't look like it. They laughed and pissed in his fridge instead. I'm fine with waiting for the process to play out, but once you have confessions, they should be barred from team activities.

[PurpleStreamers]

No. KC Keeler coaches in Texas now. xsmiley_wix

xbowx

[crusader11]

Knowing what I know about Coen, I wouldn't be shocked at all if he was aware of this entire incident, the players involved in it, and still allowed them (Noah Robb, specifically) to play against Colgate.

[AmsterBison]

Imagine if Ryan Spadola hears about this...

Hahahahaha!

Imagine the trouble they would have gotten into if they had tweeted about the incident.

[Lehigh'98]

Long and short of it is that if all accusations are true, all seven should be expelled from the university. Yes, just following the guy in does make you and accessory. Did any of them try to stop the beating? Doesn't look like it. They laughed and pissed in his fridge instead. I'm fine with waiting for the process to play out, but once you have confessions, they should be barred from team activities.

I don't really have any problem with this. These guys should have known better. Assuming they get their due process.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Long and short of it is that if all accusations are true, all seven should be expelled from the university. Yes, just following the guy in does make you and accessory. Did any of them try to stop the beating? Doesn't look like it. They laughed and pissed in his fridge instead. I'm fine with waiting for the process to play out, but once you have confessions, they should be barred from team activities.

That's the ultimate question. If they others knew Githens intentions then I have no sympathy. If they were following along like drunk morons and did nothing more then the trespassing I feel like they should be allowed to pay their dues and come back to the team. Personally, I don't think drunk college kids and trespassing is that outrageous. However, most trespassing cases don't have a violent aspect like this does....

[RichH2]

That's the ultimate question. If they others knew Githens intentions then I have no sympathy. If they were following along like drunk morons and did nothing more then the trespassing I feel like they should be allowed to pay their dues and come back to the team. Personally, I don't think drunk college kids and trespassing is that outrageous. However, most trespassing cases don't have a violent aspect like this does....
We dont yet know what they did or did not do. We should await the full facts

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Knowing what I know about Coen, I wouldn't be shocked at all if he was aware of this entire incident, the players involved in it, and still allowed them (Noah Robb, specifically) to play against Colgate.

That he's pretty laid back? He's more of a "players coach"? But that doesn't mean he's going to cover something up or go out of his way to keep bad kids around.

Fran Dunphy welcomed back Kalief Wyatt after a 3 game suspension following Wyatt being convicted of soliciting a hooker in AC. Dunphy is not as laid back as Coen,...

This will play itself out...

[Go Green]

Fran Dunphy welcomed back Kalief Wyatt after a 3 game suspension following Wyatt being convicted of soliciting a hooker in AC. Dunphy is not as laid back as Coen,...



Most solicitation crimes are misdemeanors. From what I understand in this thread, there are felony charges pending against the Lehigh players.

I think that matters.

[Southsider]

Knowing what I know about Coen, I wouldn't be shocked at all if he was aware of this entire incident, the players involved in it, and still allowed them (Noah Robb, specifically) to play against Colgate.

So, what do you know about Coen? Please, tell us. You know what I know? This story will take it's course, and LU will line up and play ball next September with whoever is suited up. End of story.

[Doc QB]

Cocky, I watched you guys against CSU last nite, you guys look tough, but crap, I also and saw graphic with your twenty some FBS transfers. We dont have them.
Crusader11, would love to know how you know Coen so well.
To all the Leopard posters, the legion of you commenting here, your focus on us is perplexing.
Lastly, the players should all be gone. LU football is special and the players need to remember that at all times. Period. As for Coen and Sterrett...acting too quickly and harshly can carry just as harsh a price for all as being delayed and later questioned for it, and they picked their poison as any of us would, when weighing the consequences of action or inaction. We would all do the same in any situation. We do not know what details they new with any authority or accuracy. Totally embarrassing.

[Engineer86]

The story broke well before the Lafayette game. Plenty of time to have talked to the players and find out who was involved. IMO, at that point all involved should have been held out of the Lafayette game just based on being involved / in the house. Then let the full investigation move forward to determine any further appropriate punishment. This is not what anyone expects from someone repressing your school.

[CFBfan]

That he's pretty laid back? He's more of a "players coach"? But that doesn't mean he's going to cover something up or go out of his way to keep bad kids around.

Fran Dunphy welcomed back Kalief Wyatt after a 3 game suspension following Wyatt being convicted of soliciting a hooker in AC. Dunphy is not as laid back as Coen,...

This will play itself out...

how can you even try to compare what Wyatt did (pay for a hooker) to what the LU thugs did??? c'mon!

[ngineer]

Huh?

I might be reaching here, but if you watch someone break down a door and follow that person into the house to observe, I think you, "being present" is considered a crime. You have to absolutely know you are trespassing at the very least.

My statement related to what did Coach Coen know what actually occurred and when it happened, not what the students knew was going on. Yes, the students following in can be viewed as trespassing. No problem with that. The question was what did Coen know and when. If police involved, they won't allow the coaches interfering with their investigation.

[ngineer]

My thoughts exactly. The deadspin article claims that all 6 of the "other" players (those who did not assist in the assault) were charged with felony criminal trespassing. According to the PA trespassing statutes, Criminal Trespass is a felony with the subsection on Simple Trespass being a misdemeanor:


So there is a chance that it could be plead down, but based on the hospital visit and defacing of property that may not be likely for all 6 of the accomplices. But to get back to Cluck U's point, yes just being present is a crime.

Same response to you as to Cluck. My statement was not with regard to the students, but what Coen knew and when he found out.

[ngineer]

The story broke well before the Lafayette game. Plenty of time to have talked to the players and find out who was involved. IMO, at that point all involved should have been held out of the Lafayette game just based on being involved / in the house. Then let the full investigation move forward to determine any further appropriate punishment. This is not what anyone expects from someone repressing your school.

Can't talk to the players if investigation is still ongoing, otherwise you get accused of interfering with investigation. Can't have it both ways. Unfortunately, in this country, due process does take time despite the lynch mob mentality that seems to be pervasive in current times.

[Engineer86]

Can't talk to the players if investigation is still ongoing, otherwise you get accused of interfering with investigation. Can't have it both ways. Unfortunately, in this country, due process does take time despite the lynch mob mentality that seems to be pervasive in current times.

You know who is involved. They do not play, that is not about the law. You made the mistake of being involved, you should not be on the field. You can defend it all you want, that is not the representatives I want to see from LU. You honestly believe the coaching staff did not know who was involved. There was a post on the Lehigh board before the Lafayette game that a "senior starter" was involved. Really, you think the coaches did not know. please.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

how can you even try to compare what Wyatt did (pay for a hooker) to what the LU thugs did??? c'mon!

I would absolutely not compare soliciting a hooker with trespassing and then assaulting someone. I'm not a lawyer but my guess is the others are charged with felony trespassing because of the assault? Which means, imo, that their fate will be determined by how much they knew and what the intentions were when they did trespass. If it gets pled down to a reduced trespassing because it was found out they had nothing to do with the assault then we'll see.

This case is brutal imo. The whole college kids ends up in another college kids house late night (no armed robbery/nothing crazy) to pull a prank or something is not the worst thing possible. If it had been 7 Lehigh football players charged with trespassing, criminal mischief after entering fellow frat house it's not a big deal. It's dumb, they'd face some penalty but ultimately everyone would get over it imo. However, when some sleezeball attacks someone it becomes extremely serious.

I don't think all should labeled as "thugs" at this point. Githens acted in such a manner. The others TBD imo....

[PAllen]

Thugs by association then? It was a pretty thug act by all involved.

[ngineer]

You, nor any of us, know what the intention of the others were in going to the house. With 7 guys some may just have been along for the ride, and others more intent on 'helping' Githens. These type of things get difficult in the investigations for the police because of having to take statements, separately, and then comparing, and going back to prior interviewees. It doesn't get all done in 1 hour as in your typical TV police show. Githens no doubt a 'thug', but to casually label everyone is unfortunately the lazy thing we do in today's world of multimedia. It's too hard to be patient to spout opinions until the facts are actually known.

[Go...gate]

Thinking back to the Jordan Scott fiasco at Colgate (and I still think Scott should have been expelled), I think we need more facts before we start making any judgments.

[igo4uni]

too bad for everyone involved.

[Green26]

Thugs by association then? It was a pretty thug act by all involved.

It looks to me that it was a stupid act by all involved. Did it on a whim, I assume. Didn't think of the consequences. Not a thug act at all.

[UNDOregon]

I feel bad/sad whenever I read about college athletes getting into trouble, because these incidents are preventable. I think that athletic departments are not doing enough to give athletes specific, concrete information about how to stay out of trouble. I do not know what/how athletic departments teach their athletes about what can get them suspended or expelled and what community-responsibility workshops athletes must attend. But, the troublesome behaviors are repeating again and again, across the country, and across all NCAA divisions.

There should be a required class on the problematic behaviors, which tend to be concentrated in only a few areas:

1. alcohol
2. drugs
3. anger
4. romantic and sexual behavior
5. guns
6. fast cars
7. turning the other cheek and walking away, ignoring disrespectful comments from opponents, fans, drunks (in person or on social media)
8. refusing to join the marauding and trouble seeking of a group of peers and the peers' pressure to join

It is not enough to tell young people to "be good" or "don't get into trouble" because those standards are too vague. Every athlete would tell us that they are "good" and that they "don't get into trouble." The general topics of bad behavior should be clearly identified and discussed, even for those athletes who appear to be law-abiding citizens. And posted or repeated, so that they stick. Specific examples of bad consequences could be given about each of these behaviors; specific examples of good decision making could also be given; and along a timeline of a crime's commission, specific times/events could be discussed when athletes could have removed themselves from the situation.

The purpose would be to help athletes identify those forks in the road in the college setting where they need to exercise good judgment, to get them to pause/stop at the time a fork in the road appears, and to think about bad consequences (prison, jail, monthly reports to probation officers, random testing for drugs and alcohol, anger management classes, suspension from team, expulsion from school, fewer professional athletic opportunities, fewer employment opportunities, fewer housing options, hits to their credit scores and background checks, elimination of preferred status in community, bad reputation, etc.).

Most crimes are situational, fueled by the big 3 crime generators (alcohol, drugs, anger), rather than being a planned day of crime. Some crimes are planned days, weeks, or months in advance but usually not the sorts of crimes college athletes find themselves doing. It would make sense to teach athletes about those main topics so that, as a situation/timeline develops and an athlete gets closer and closer to a bad consequence, the athlete could consciously think about those bad consequences and remove himself/herself from the situation, or to avoid the entire situation from the start. We could easily create a timeline for these Lehigh students' night, and once created and shown in a class, athletes could see how the timeline/bad-decision making may have taken them in also or been applied to them (or maybe how it would not have taken them in). At the beginning of the Lehigh timeline, we would have a group of friends playing video games and, at the end of the timeline, we would have prison.

A coach and athletic department can't prevent all trouble. But, if an athletic department is charged with creating good citizens and productive members of society, it seems athletic departments need to be more proactive than simply hoping that the athletes don't get into trouble. Four or five hours would be a good length for the workshop/seminar.

I apologize for the long post and for being so serious on this topic.

[ngineer]

I feel bad/sad whenever I read about college athletes getting into trouble, because these incidents are preventable. I think that athletic departments are not doing enough to give athletes specific, concrete information about how to stay out of trouble. I do not know what/how athletic departments teach their athletes about what can get them suspended or expelled and what community-responsibility workshops athletes must attend. But, the troublesome behaviors are repeating again and again, across the country, and across all NCAA divisions.

There should be a required class on the problematic behaviors, which tend to be concentrated in only a few areas:

1. alcohol
2. drugs
3. anger
4. romantic and sexual behavior
5. guns
6. fast cars
7. turning the other cheek and walking away, ignoring disrespectful comments from opponents, fans, drunks (in person or on social media)
8. refusing to join the marauding and trouble seeking of a group of peers and the peers' pressure to join

It is not enough to tell young people to "be good" or "don't get into trouble" because those standards are too vague. Every athlete would tell us that they are "good" and that they "don't get into trouble." The general topics of bad behavior should be clearly identified and discussed, even for those athletes who appear to be law-abiding citizens. And posted or repeated, so that they stick. Specific examples of bad consequences could be given about each of these behaviors; specific examples of good decision making could also be given; and along a timeline of a crime's commission, specific times/events could be discussed when athletes could have removed themselves from the situation.

The purpose would be to help athletes identify those forks in the road in the college setting where they need to exercise good judgment, to get them to pause/stop at the time a fork in the road appears, and to think about bad consequences (prison, jail, monthly reports to probation officers, random testing for drugs and alcohol, anger management classes, suspension from team, expulsion from school, fewer professional athletic opportunities, fewer employment opportunities, fewer housing options, hits to their credit scores and background checks, elimination of preferred status in community, bad reputation, etc.).

Most crimes are situational, fueled by the big 3 crime generators (alcohol, drugs, anger), rather than being a planned day of crime. Some crimes are planned days, weeks, or months in advance but usually not the sorts of crimes college athletes find themselves doing. It would make sense to teach athletes about those main topics so that, as a situation/timeline develops and an athlete gets closer and closer to a bad consequence, the athlete could consciously think about those bad consequences and remove himself/herself from the situation, or to avoid the entire situation from the start. We could easily create a timeline for these Lehigh students' night, and once created and shown in a class, athletes could see how the timeline/bad-decision making may have taken them in also or been applied to them (or maybe how it would not have taken them in). At the beginning of the Lehigh timeline, we would have a group of friends playing video games and, at the end of the timeline, we would have prison.

A coach and athletic department can't prevent all trouble. But, if an athletic department is charged with creating good citizens and productive members of society, it seems athletic departments need to be more proactive than simply hoping that the athletes don't get into trouble. Four or five hours would be a good length for the workshop/seminar.

I apologize for the long post and for being so serious on this topic.

Good points. However, what you propose should really be done for all students going to college. Many for the first time being away from home and "on their own" for the first time. For many, the first real experience with alcohol and not having Mom & Dad waiting at home, and combined with the opposite sex circling. Too many people assume these kids already "know it all", when in reality, they know very little.

[UNDOregon]

Good points. However, what you propose should really be done for all students going to college. Many for the first time being away from home and "on their own" for the first time. For many, the first real experience with alcohol and not having Mom & Dad waiting at home, and combined with the opposite sex circling. Too many people assume these kids already "know it all", when in reality, they know very little.

Agreed. It is just as important for non-athlete students, especially since they don't have the same access to the resources given to athletes.

A few years ago, I attended the University of Oregon's freshmen registration for classes, which is a two-day event for students and family members during the summer before fall classes. A number of various sessions on different college success topics (costs, financial aid, study habits, campus safety and wellness, etc.) were offered and repeated during the days. Much bigger than when I signed up for my first semester's classes at UND. But nothing was offered on consequences and how freshmen can express their new independence without engaging in unacceptable behavior. It may not have been the right place/time.

Even if a school doesn't want to interfere with the growing-up process, or appear to be too hard-handed, I would think the school would want to avoid the extreme/rare situations such as students going to jail or prison. We can identify those extreme/rare situations right now for students and athletes. I am concerned that athletic departments are not doing it, when the information is available now.

It wouldn't need to be all gloom and doom. The class could have some lighter aspects (for example, where are the cheapest drinks, where do students go for a drink or to dance or to play pool, where are the happy hours, are they walking distance, etc. ) as well as the serious side.

[Green26]

Don't many or most athletic departments already do those things.

[Gangtackle11]

So what happened to these players?

[CFBfan]

So what happened to these players?

Obama said that they have all served with honor and distinction, rose garden press conf to follow

[RichH2]

Obama said that they have all served with honor and distinction, rose garden press conf to follow
LU cant reveal info per privacy laws. Court hearings are starting. Most will go ARD for accelerated program for 1st offenders.

[ngineer]

the one pugilist will likely be expelled. Several have been suspended with the right to petition for reinstatement. One or two were exonerated from any involvement in misconduct.

[Bisonoline]

I feel bad/sad whenever I read about college athletes getting into trouble, because these incidents are preventable. I think that athletic departments are not doing enough to give athletes specific, concrete information about how to stay out of trouble. I do not know what/how athletic departments teach their athletes about what can get them suspended or expelled and what community-responsibility workshops athletes must attend. But, the troublesome behaviors are repeating again and again, across the country, and across all NCAA divisions.

There should be a required class on the problematic behaviors, which tend to be concentrated in only a few areas:

1. alcohol
2. drugs
3. anger
4. romantic and sexual behavior
5. guns
6. fast cars
7. turning the other cheek and walking away, ignoring disrespectful comments from opponents, fans, drunks (in person or on social media)
8. refusing to join the marauding and trouble seeking of a group of peers and the peers' pressure to join

It is not enough to tell young people to "be good" or "don't get into trouble" because those standards are too vague. Every athlete would tell us that they are "good" and that they "don't get into trouble." The general topics of bad behavior should be clearly identified and discussed, even for those athletes who appear to be law-abiding citizens. And posted or repeated, so that they stick. Specific examples of bad consequences could be given about each of these behaviors; specific examples of good decision making could also be given; and along a timeline of a crime's commission, specific times/events could be discussed when athletes could have removed themselves from the situation.

The purpose would be to help athletes identify those forks in the road in the college setting where they need to exercise good judgment, to get them to pause/stop at the time a fork in the road appears, and to think about bad consequences (prison, jail, monthly reports to probation officers, random testing for drugs and alcohol, anger management classes, suspension from team, expulsion from school, fewer professional athletic opportunities, fewer employment opportunities, fewer housing options, hits to their credit scores and background checks, elimination of preferred status in community, bad reputation, etc.).

Most crimes are situational, fueled by the big 3 crime generators (alcohol, drugs, anger), rather than being a planned day of crime. Some crimes are planned days, weeks, or months in advance but usually not the sorts of crimes college athletes find themselves doing. It would make sense to teach athletes about those main topics so that, as a situation/timeline develops and an athlete gets closer and closer to a bad consequence, the athlete could consciously think about those bad consequences and remove himself/herself from the situation, or to avoid the entire situation from the start. We could easily create a timeline for these Lehigh students' night, and once created and shown in a class, athletes could see how the timeline/bad-decision making may have taken them in also or been applied to them (or maybe how it would not have taken them in). At the beginning of the Lehigh timeline, we would have a group of friends playing video games and, at the end of the timeline, we would have prison.

A coach and athletic department can't prevent all trouble. But, if an athletic department is charged with creating good citizens and productive members of society, it seems athletic departments need to be more proactive than simply hoping that the athletes don't get into trouble. Four or five hours would be a good length for the workshop/seminar.

I apologize for the long post and for being so serious on this topic.

Do you really think those issues arent talked about? Some kids just dont get it.

[UNDOregon]

Do you really think those issues arent talked about? Some kids just dont get it.

Not sure what athletic departments do in this area. And now we have another criminal case.

These things are repeating and have common themes. That is how we know we can create training and education.

I am trying to find out which of these criminal types of topics athletic departments discuss with their athletes, how in-depth, consequences analyzed, etc. I have asked and researched but so far I am not finding much. I was hoping that posters with athletic experience would post some information.

My concern is that an athletic administrator believes the school has complied with its responsibility by sending an edict, such as "Read the Student Conduct Code" or "Don't do drugs" or "Stay away from the bars on University Avenue" or "Random drug testing in 1 month," by text, email, flyer, etc. I am proposing a much more in-depth, mandatory, comprehensive training, in an actual classroom, using real-life timelines to create hypotheticals that all start with a group of law-abiding college athletes but turns into arrests. These case studies could easily be developed for discussion using the events at Lehigh, Montana, Illinois State, and Jacksonville State. Those situations could be used because they are current and they all have elements of innocence which athletes could relate to. But a night that started out innocently with comrades, ended with matching silver bracelets.

Lots of misinformation is out there. Each of the 6 additional Lehigh football players was an accomplice to Githens, aiding and abetting the commission of crimes. Each of those 6 could have been charged with the same primary crimes that Githens committed. Each did acts which were more than the mere presence of the football player. At a minimum, each entered the residence without permission which is illegal. An accomplice's liability is the same liability as the primary wrongdoer. If Githens had killed Hernandez, then each of the additional 6 could also have been charged with murder. Each of the 6 is held to the known or unknown acts of the primary wrongdoer. It is not a defense for the get-away driver, lookout, or buddy who is "just watching" to argue that he was not the triggerman.

Each of these 7 could also have been charged with conspiracy, which is an agreement to commit a crime along with at least 1 step toward that crime. When Githens said, "You guys have my back, don't you?" and 6 fools answered "Yes," a conspiracy agreement was in place. When these 7 walked outside toward Pierce Street, they had taken at least 1 part toward those crimes. The crime of conspiracy was committed at that point. They did additional acts, breaking and entering, trespassing, knocking down doors, kicking walls, beating a man, pissing in refrigerator, yelling, etc.

This is a violent, person-to-person matter, on the most serious end of the criminality scale. These 7 men should thank their lucky stars that they didn't face more serious charges. Prosecutor didn't charge each with the more serious matters so there must have been some problems in getting the more serious convictions. Very lucky, because prosecutors usually throw the entire criminal code at violent offenders.

Githens didn't know who he was looking for. He didn't know what the Frat Pres assaulter looked like. He didn't know the residence of the Frat Pres assaulter, he beat the assumed Frat Pres assaulter by looking at his face and then beat him at least twice (or he didn't look at the guy's blanket-covered face to verify he had the right guy, and then just beat him anyway). He didn't stop after the first strike, when he should have recognized his mistake, and say, "Wrong guy. Sorry." He had 3 days after the Frat Pres assault to gather information and pinpoint/identify the Frat Pres assaulter, and this is what he came up with for his revenge? It would also have been a crime for Githens, if he did attack the actual Frat Pres assaulter. Revenge is also not a defense.

Sorry again for the length. Something can be done to educate our young men.

[JSUSoutherner]

Not sure what athletic departments do in this area. And now we have another criminal case.

These things are repeating and have common themes. That is how we know we can create training and education.

I am trying to find out which of these criminal types of topics athletic departments discuss with their athletes, how in-depth, consequences analyzed, etc. I have asked and researched but so far I am not finding much. I was hoping that posters with athletic experience would post some information.

My concern is that an athletic administrator believes the school has complied with its responsibility by sending an edict, such as "Read the Student Conduct Code" or "Don't do drugs" or "Stay away from the bars on University Avenue" or "Random drug testing in 1 month," by text, email, flyer, etc. I am proposing a much more in-depth, mandatory, comprehensive training, in an actual classroom, using real-life timelines to create hypotheticals that all start with a group of law-abiding college athletes but turns into arrests. These case studies could easily be developed for discussion using the events at Lehigh, Montana, Illinois State, and Jacksonville State. Those situations could be used because they are current and they all have elements of innocence which athletes could relate to. But a night that started out innocently with comrades, ended with matching silver bracelets.

Lots of misinformation is out there. Each of the 6 additional Lehigh football players was an accomplice to Githens, aiding and abetting the commission of crimes. Each of those 6 could have been charged with the same primary crimes that Githens committed. Each did acts which were more than the mere presence of the football player. At a minimum, each entered the residence without permission which is illegal. An accomplice's liability is the same liability as the primary wrongdoer. If Githens had killed Hernandez, then each of the additional 6 could also have been charged with murder. Each of the 6 is held to the known or unknown acts of the primary wrongdoer. It is not a defense for the get-away driver, lookout, or buddy who is "just watching" to argue that he was not the triggerman.

Each of these 7 could also have been charged with conspiracy, which is an agreement to commit a crime along with at least 1 step toward that crime. When Githens said, "You guys have my back, don't you?" and 6 fools answered "Yes," a conspiracy agreement was in place. When these 7 walked outside toward Pierce Street, they had taken at least 1 part toward those crimes. The crime of conspiracy was committed at that point. They did additional acts, breaking and entering, trespassing, knocking down doors, kicking walls, beating a man, pissing in refrigerator, yelling, etc.

This is a violent, person-to-person matter, on the most serious end of the criminality scale. These 7 men should thank their lucky stars that they didn't face more serious charges. Prosecutor didn't charge each with the more serious matters so there must have been some problems in getting the more serious convictions. Very lucky, because prosecutors usually throw the entire criminal code at violent offenders.

Githens didn't know who he was looking for. He didn't know what the Frat Pres assaulter looked like. He didn't know the residence of the Frat Pres assaulter, he beat the assumed Frat Pres assaulter by looking at his face and then beat him at least twice (or he didn't look at the guy's blanket-covered face to verify he had the right guy, and then just beat him anyway). He didn't stop after the first strike, when he should have recognized his mistake, and say, "Wrong guy. Sorry." He had 3 days after the Frat Pres assault to gather information and pinpoint/identify the Frat Pres assaulter, and this is what he came up with for his revenge? It would also have been a crime for Githens, if he did attack the actual Frat Pres assaulter. Revenge is also not a defense.

Sorry again for the length. Something can be done to educate our young men.

So, I'm currently a student. When I came to JSU last year it was mandatory for all freshman to take an online Alcohol awareness class, an online sexual abuse class, and in our required freshman orientation class they spent quite a bit of time on some of the other topics you mentioned. These classes for the most part are already in place to a certain extent.

A class isn't going to stop anyone from committing a crime.

We (students) don't even pay attention when teachers ramble about it.

Students aren't committing crimes because they didn't have a class telling them why they shouldn't commit a crime, it's because they lack the common sense to think their actions through.

Classes can't teach common sense.

[heath]

Not sure what athletic departments do in this area. And now we have another criminal case.

These things are repeating and have common themes. That is how we know we can create training and education.

I am trying to find out which of these criminal types of topics athletic departments discuss with their athletes, how in-depth, consequences analyzed, etc. I have asked and researched but so far I am not finding much. I was hoping that posters with athletic experience would post some information.

My concern is that an athletic administrator believes the school has complied with its responsibility by sending an edict, such as "Read the Student Conduct Code" or "Don't do drugs" or "Stay away from the bars on University Avenue" or "Random drug testing in 1 month," by text, email, flyer, etc. I am proposing a much more in-depth, mandatory, comprehensive training, in an actual classroom, using real-life timelines to create hypotheticals that all start with a group of law-abiding college athletes but turns into arrests. These case studies could easily be developed for discussion using the events at Lehigh, Montana, Illinois State, and Jacksonville State. Those situations could be used because they are current and they all have elements of innocence which athletes could relate to. But a night that started out innocently with comrades, ended with matching silver bracelets.

Lots of misinformation is out there. Each of the 6 additional Lehigh football players was an accomplice to Githens, aiding and abetting the commission of crimes. Each of those 6 could have been charged with the same primary crimes that Githens committed. Each did acts which were more than the mere presence of the football player. At a minimum, each entered the residence without permission which is illegal. An accomplice's liability is the same liability as the primary wrongdoer. If Githens had killed Hernandez, then each of the additional 6 could also have been charged with murder. Each of the 6 is held to the known or unknown acts of the primary wrongdoer. It is not a defense for the get-away driver, lookout, or buddy who is "just watching" to argue that he was not the triggerman.

Each of these 7 could also have been charged with conspiracy, which is an agreement to commit a crime along with at least 1 step toward that crime. When Githens said, "You guys have my back, don't you?" and 6 fools answered "Yes," a conspiracy agreement was in place. When these 7 walked outside toward Pierce Street, they had taken at least 1 part toward those crimes. The crime of conspiracy was committed at that point. They did additional acts, breaking and entering, trespassing, knocking down doors, kicking walls, beating a man, pissing in refrigerator, yelling, etc.

This is a violent, person-to-person matter, on the most serious end of the criminality scale. These 7 men should thank their lucky stars that they didn't face more serious charges. Prosecutor didn't charge each with the more serious matters so there must have been some problems in getting the more serious convictions. Very lucky, because prosecutors usually throw the entire criminal code at violent offenders.

Githens didn't know who he was looking for. He didn't know what the Frat Pres assaulter looked like. He didn't know the residence of the Frat Pres assaulter, he beat the assumed Frat Pres assaulter by looking at his face and then beat him at least twice (or he didn't look at the guy's blanket-covered face to verify he had the right guy, and then just beat him anyway). He didn't stop after the first strike, when he should have recognized his mistake, and say, "Wrong guy. Sorry." He had 3 days after the Frat Pres assault to gather information and pinpoint/identify the Frat Pres assaulter, and this is what he came up with for his revenge? It would also have been a crime for Githens, if he did attack the actual Frat Pres assaulter. Revenge is also not a defense.

Sorry again for the length. Something can be done to educate our young men.
Really? This crap has been going on for years. No different than the new rules governing football. We have become a society of woosies. Political correctness will screw up up anything. My concern is you UNDO Oregon have no clue or an ax to burn, look around, this has been going on for years EVERYWHERE!xpeacexxpeacex Sometimes revenge is the best answer. Educating the young men should happen way before college, but most college age young men have been corrupted by some outside influences by then.

[Bisonoline]

Not sure what athletic departments do in this area. And now we have another criminal case.

These things are repeating and have common themes. That is how we know we can create training and education.

I am trying to find out which of these criminal types of topics athletic departments discuss with their athletes, how in-depth, consequences analyzed, etc. I have asked and researched but so far I am not finding much. I was hoping that posters with athletic experience would post some information.

My concern is that an athletic administrator believes the school has complied with its responsibility by sending an edict, such as "Read the Student Conduct Code" or "Don't do drugs" or "Stay away from the bars on University Avenue" or "Random drug testing in 1 month," by text, email, flyer, etc. I am proposing a much more in-depth, mandatory, comprehensive training, in an actual classroom, using real-life timelines to create hypotheticals that all start with a group of law-abiding college athletes but turns into arrests. These case studies could easily be developed for discussion using the events at Lehigh, Montana, Illinois State, and Jacksonville State. Those situations could be used because they are current and they all have elements of innocence which athletes could relate to. But a night that started out innocently with comrades, ended with matching silver bracelets.

Lots of misinformation is out there. Each of the 6 additional Lehigh football players was an accomplice to Githens, aiding and abetting the commission of crimes. Each of those 6 could have been charged with the same primary crimes that Githens committed. Each did acts which were more than the mere presence of the football player. At a minimum, each entered the residence without permission which is illegal. An accomplice's liability is the same liability as the primary wrongdoer. If Githens had killed Hernandez, then each of the additional 6 could also have been charged with murder. Each of the 6 is held to the known or unknown acts of the primary wrongdoer. It is not a defense for the get-away driver, lookout, or buddy who is "just watching" to argue that he was not the triggerman.

Each of these 7 could also have been charged with conspiracy, which is an agreement to commit a crime along with at least 1 step toward that crime. When Githens said, "You guys have my back, don't you?" and 6 fools answered "Yes," a conspiracy agreement was in place. When these 7 walked outside toward Pierce Street, they had taken at least 1 part toward those crimes. The crime of conspiracy was committed at that point. They did additional acts, breaking and entering, trespassing, knocking down doors, kicking walls, beating a man, pissing in refrigerator, yelling, etc.

This is a violent, person-to-person matter, on the most serious end of the criminality scale. These 7 men should thank their lucky stars that they didn't face more serious charges. Prosecutor didn't charge each with the more serious matters so there must have been some problems in getting the more serious convictions. Very lucky, because prosecutors usually throw the entire criminal code at violent offenders.

Githens didn't know who he was looking for. He didn't know what the Frat Pres assaulter looked like. He didn't know the residence of the Frat Pres assaulter, he beat the assumed Frat Pres assaulter by looking at his face and then beat him at least twice (or he didn't look at the guy's blanket-covered face to verify he had the right guy, and then just beat him anyway). He didn't stop after the first strike, when he should have recognized his mistake, and say, "Wrong guy. Sorry." He had 3 days after the Frat Pres assault to gather information and pinpoint/identify the Frat Pres assaulter, and this is what he came up with for his revenge? It would also have been a crime for Githens, if he did attack the actual Frat Pres assaulter. Revenge is also not a defense.

Sorry again for the length. Something can be done to educate our young men.

Kids being taught right from wrong begins at home. Many kids dont have that stable of a home life so their coaches are their mentors. You can have all of the classes you want. But you cant teach right form wrong and common sense. Some kids dont choose the right path.
There are approx 1/2 a million college football players. Bad behavior and bad choices arent an epidemic.

Some just choose poorly. Its life. You cant save them all.

[UNDOregon]

I was trying to obtain information from athletes and students about what they are told. All these people on this board are a great resource. I have experience with teaching and training, and sincerely thought that a solution could be developed. I will drop it. xpeacex

[Bisonoline]

I was trying to obtain information from athletes and students about what they are told. All these people on this board are a great resource. I have experience with teaching and training, and sincerely thought that a solution could be developed. I will drop it. xpeacex

When I showed up for pre fall football the first thing we were told was the NCAA rules of Dos and donts. They talked a little bit about alcohol and being responsible and the age in Iowa was 21. Manage your time for your studies. Never miss a training room appointment. Report injuries etc Nothing earth shattering.
Now a days the talks range from PEDs, recreational drugs, sexual responsibility and social media. Academics and what I touched on earlier and a bunch more.

Unfortunately there is no majic bullet. Every year you read about some kids who could have made a gazillion dollars if they just would have kept their nose clean. But they threw it all away. They chose poorly.

But i bet if you developed a program to go in to all of these schools and talk about stuff like this you could create a job for yourself. But I do think some schools have people on staff that might do this also.

[Bisonoline]

http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/wireStory/usc-lsu-players-charged-robberies-36434910

I guess there was a valid reason they are no longer playing football.