Frankosaurus Watch

[carney2]

Lafayette currently stands at 1-9 with a solid shot at 1-10. It is without question, one of, if not the, worst football teams fielded by the College in its 135 years of gridiron competition. Still, if asked, the College President probably could not tell you the team’s record, and the head coach remains comfortably ensconced in his corner office with one year remaining on his contract. This is the first post to a thread that could ultimately rival the aimless Lafayette @ New Hampshire fiasco for longevity. The difference is that this thread has a purpose: What is the state of The Frankosaurus?

THE FACTS:

Lafayette is 1-9 and concluding the 6th consecutive year where they have posted more losses than wins. They are ranked number 236 (of 253) by Sagarin. Teams rated higher include Cornell, Campbell, Marist, Columbia, … well, you get the point.

Frank Tavani will not be fired. He has another year remaining on his contract, but most feel that if he wants an extension, it’s his.

Frank has a heart condition. He is 62 and physical concerns could lead him to step down sooner than he might otherwise like.

Tavani is not THE problem at Lafayette. It is very complicated, but can be summed up with a much too mild “institutional neglect.” From the Board of Trustees down to the sophomores in the psychology seminar to the rent-a-cop who was hired last week, no one outside of the team locker room gives a crap.

Changes are needed. Will the changes include a Tavani resignation, a shuffling of assistants, or merely the purchase of a different brand of toilet paper for the Bourger Varsity House? It may come down to Easton’s version of rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic, but doing the same things with the same people but expecting different results would baffle even Einstein.

THE WATCH – DAY ONE

With a bye week staring him in the face, Tavani has declared a football moratorium. There will be no practices until Wednesday afternoon. The assistants have been sent out on the recruiting trail. Best bet is that they have been handed tickets on Greyhound buses or issued a copy of "Tips for Hichhikers," given the financial constraints assigned to football. The head coach, who apparently does not often board a plane to go recruiting, is staying home to watch the NFL, take a nap, or catch up on the many important chores facing the Fuhrer of a 1-9 team.

Summary: Frank Tavani is still the head football coach at Lafayette. Stay tuned.

[Pard4Life]

I picked up a copy of the school paper yesterday. Frank is quoted, in response to the Bucknell game:

Within the first three possessions Amill and Brown had run for 51 and 42 yard gains, respectively, that helped the Leopards take a 14-0 lead into the second quarter. Amill’s play was the longest of the season for the Leopards and led to the Leopard’s first points following 154 minutes of scoreless play.

“I made a decision that we were going to commit to run the ball and change our mentality a little bit,” coach Frank Tavani said. “We’re getting back to the kind of football I believe in and we’ve won with here. We did it better but we need to do it even better and make plays when they’re there.”

Yes... you win by running the ball... but we can't run the ball consistently AND you need to make plays downfield once in awhile to keep the defense off-balance. There is a reason why the forward pass was invented: rushes in pre-1910 went for 2 yards every time.

[GABison]

Well, he could always go back to show biz. Wasn't he a character on "Hill Street Blues"?:)

[ColgateTD]

I know it's small consolation Carney, but I thought the Pards looked pretty sharp against 'Gate this weekend. With some of their injured players back in action they took it to the Raiders and the game was not decided until late. What Colgate fans thought would be an easy day at the park turned out to be a struggle and very competitive. It's difficult to believe the Leopards have the record they do; they seemed much better than advertised. The gap between winning and losing in the PL seems to be closing. Maybe there is hope......

[Lehigh Football Nation]

In the modern era, looking for a comparable team, Kenneth Bunn's 1964 team went 0-7-1 going into the Lehigh game. However Lehigh was just as bad, and the Leopards tied Lehigh 6-6 in the 100th meeting of The Rivalry. Something worthy of mention here: Bunn returned for TWO more years.

The last time a 1 win Lafayette team had its head coach dismissed was in 1936, when Ernie Nevers guided the Leopards to a 1-8 season following "Herb" McCracken's retirement (I believe). I don't remember all the details, but I think there was a mutiny on campus as he was considered a horrible coach, despite the fact he had a successful early run as player/coach of the Chicago Cardinals.

[carney2]

I know it's small consolation Carney, but I thought the Pards looked pretty sharp against 'Gate this weekend. With some of their injured players back in action they took it to the Raiders and the game was not decided until late. What Colgate fans thought would be an easy day at the park turned out to be a struggle and very competitive. It's difficult to believe the Leopards have the record they do; they seemed much better than advertised. The gap between winning and losing in the PL seems to be closing. Maybe there is hope......

Small consolation indeed. The Leopards at full strength and with a League average number of injuries are not a 1-10 team. Neither are they a 10-1 team, a League champ, or probably even a team that records more Ws than Ls. They are part of a program that, for many reasons (most unrelated to on the field performance), is trending down. A coaching change may be necessary, but it is a Band-Aid at best.

[carney2]

The last time a 1 win Lafayette team had its head coach dismissed was in 1936, when Ernie Nevers guided the Leopards to a 1-8 season following "Herb" McCracken's retirement (I believe). I don't remember all the details, but I think there was a mutiny on campus as he was considered a horrible coach, despite the fact he had a successful early run as player/coach of the Chicago Cardinals.

Ah, the good old days when someone in Easton actually cared about football - or any athletic program at Lafayette.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

I can go back 25 years with PL football and during that time Lafayette has been so "meh". They've had 3 teams that I'd consider REALLY good or Top 20 good, 1992, 2004 and 2005. They've had far more truly bad teams over that period. At this point more than anyone else In the league except for Georgetown. It's a beautiful school located in a area filled with top notch HS talent. The biggest reasons for their failures are administration and program apathy.

I also think the program has measured their success against and relative to Lehigh far too much. The "jubilation" following #150 was what did it for me. The game was literally nothing more than a bunch of people watching two bad football teams and one great player. The moment and atmosphere was far superior to the product on the field...

Lafayette needs to get some young Ambrose type guy in there to ruffle a few feathers and start talking crazy. Like about winning 10 games and being the best program in the Northeast and competing for national titles. Even if it might not be entirely possible it's the type of juice and belief the program needs. If you told me Temple would host Game Day and play in primetime as a ranked team even 5 years ago I would have told you you're flippin crazy. Lafayette has potential even with an administration that sucks....

I don't think it's coincidence that Holy Cross and Lafayette have struggled the most recently. They are the two schools with the sketchiest administrations when it comes to athletics in the PL...

The one 9 win season in something like 70 years for Lafayette is what gets me. That is hard to pull off.....

[carney2]

I can go back 25 years with PL football and during that time Lafayette has been so "meh". They've had 3 teams that I'd consider REALLY good or Top 20 good, 1992, 2004 and 2005. They've had far more truly bad teams over that period. At this point more than anyone else In the league except for Georgetown. It's a beautiful school located in a area filled with top notch HS talent. The biggest reasons for their failures are administration and program apathy.

I also think the program has measured their success against and relative to Lehigh far too much. The "jubilation" following #150 was what did it for me. The game was literally nothing more than a bunch of people watching two bad football teams and one great player. The moment and atmosphere was far superior to the product on the field...

Lafayette needs to get some young Ambrose type guy in there to ruffle a few feathers and start talking crazy. Like about winning 10 games and being the best program in the Northeast and competing for national titles. Even if it might not be entirely possible it's the type of juice and belief the program needs. If you told me Temple would host Game Day and play in primetime as a ranked team even 5 years ago I would have told you you're flippin crazy. Lafayette has potential even with an administration that sucks....

I don't think it's coincidence that Holy Cross and Lafayette have struggled the most recently. They are the two schools with the sketchiest administrations when it comes to athletics in the PL...

The one 9 win season in something like 70 years for Lafayette is what gets me. That is hard to pull off.....

Lots of good observations here. Some responses:

You missed 2009. May have been the best Lafayette team of the period you describe. Missed two extra points and ran into a hot Dominic Randolph in Woo, and then couldn't come back out of that hole against a so-so Lehigh team. That group came oh so close to posting a 10-1 regular season record.

As for the overall mediocrity of the rest of it, you are spot on. No pun intended. I say again that, since 1950, the Lafayette program has only been able to run off 3 winning seasons in a row. They've done it more than once, but that's it - and it is truly pathetic.

Your comparison to Holy Cross is again on target. I don't know much about what's happening on Mt. St. James, but they seem to be very similar to Lafayette in almost every negative aspect. Institutional neglect appears quite obvious.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Ah, the good old days when someone in Easton actually cared about football - or any athletic program at Lafayette.

Not true! Fisher will be packed on Thanksgiving for a football game....xsmiley_wix

[ngineer]

Not true! Fisher will be packed on Thanksgiving for a football game....xsmiley_wix

And a great game that should be. Philipsburg is 9-1 and Easton is 7-3 with an RB who just ran for 469 yards on 35 carries!xeekx

[CHIP72]

I don't follow the goings on in Lehigh Valley high school football too closely at this point, but it looks like Easton is having a relatively down year if they are 7-3.

BTW, as someone who has never attended the Easton/Phillipsburg game, how do they split the seating at Fisher Stadium? I assume each school gets half the stands on each side of the field.

One other, semi-OT thought - I only started following Division I-AA/FCS football in earnest in the last 10 years, but I've followed both Lehigh Valley Division I schools in basketball for considerably longer (closely since the late 1990s and more casually since the mid-1980s). To me, what's damning is when I was young (1980s, which encompasses the bulk of my grade school days), Lafayette clearly had a more prominent basketball program than Lehigh. Sure, Lehigh made that fluke NCAA Tournament appearance in 1985 (which is when things started to change, obviously Lehigh had their second, much more legitimate NCAA team in 1988), but the Bethlehem school had limited basketball support and focused much more energy on football and wrestling. They never managed to have a school like Notre Dame come in to play them at home, like Lafayette did in (I think) 1988. However, even with a down period during the late 1990s and early 2000s Sal Mentesana years, Lehigh has built a better basketball program than Lafayette over the last 25-30 years, despite Lafayette probably having a bit more fan support. Lehigh has occasional seasons when they have young teams that are very competitive in the league (like last year) while Lafayette almost never has those type of seasons. Lehigh also has seasons when they have veteran teams that are dominant, 20+ win, top two in the league teams, while Lafayette's veteran teams generally never finish in the top two and need to make surprise runs to even make the Patriot League Tournament championship game, much less win it (such as last year's team, which was the #4 seed going into the PL Tournament...behind Lehigh's much younger 3rd seeded team). The fact Lehigh program-wise has surpassed Lafayette program-wise, at least IMO and probably other many other people's opinions, is arguably more damning than the disparity between the two school's football programs.

[DFW HOYA]

Patriot League records, since 2010. Five of the seven teams are at or below .500.

The numbers in Easton and Worcester bear a second look.

1. Lehigh: 47-21 (.691)
2. Fordham: 43-28 (.605)
3. Colgate: 34-33 (.507)
4. Bucknell: 28-36 (.438)
5. Georgetown: 26-38 (.406)
6. Holy Cross: 25-41 (.378)
7. Lafayette: 22-44 (.333)

[carney2]

Back on topic. On Sundays The Frankosaurus buys some donuts for the wounded and meets with Paul Reinhard, the Lafayette football beat writer for Allentown's Mourning Crawl. He becomes an inspirational quote machine:

"Regardless of what people think, we'll show up [for the Lehigh game]." I'm not sure how to take that. Is he telling the tailgaters to go ahead and buy the beer because the game will be played? Or is he guaranteeing us that No. 151 will not be yet another of his infamous no-show games?

"As I told our young men, I'm going to spend every waking moment finding a way for us to win." I'm sure the team finds that very comforting. Indications are that the team is not convinced that he has all that many "waking moments" to begin with.

"It's been a tough year, but it's not the end of the world." Not exactly what you want to hear from the head coach of one of the worst teams in the country.

All of this is further proof that you are unlikely to encounter a football coach at a Mensa meeting.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Patriot League records, since 2010. Five of the seven teams are at or below .500.

The numbers in Easton and Worcester bear a second look.

1. Lehigh: 47-21 (.691)
2. Fordham: 43-28 (.605)
3. Colgate: 34-33 (.507)
4. Bucknell: 28-36 (.438)
5. Georgetown: 26-38 (.406)
6. Holy Cross: 25-41 (.378)
7. Lafayette: 22-44 (.333)

But Lafayette has that legendary 2013 championship team! xeyebrowx xdrunkyx

[Franks Tanks]

I can go back 25 years with PL football and during that time Lafayette has been so "meh". They've had 3 teams that I'd consider REALLY good or Top 20 good, 1992, 2004 and 2005. They've had far more truly bad teams over that period. At this point more than anyone else In the league except for Georgetown. It's a beautiful school located in a area filled with top notch HS talent. The biggest reasons for their failures are administration and program apathy.

I also think the program has measured their success against and relative to Lehigh far too much. The "jubilation" following #150 was what did it for me. The game was literally nothing more than a bunch of people watching two bad football teams and one great player. The moment and atmosphere was far superior to the product on the field...

Lafayette needs to get some young Ambrose type guy in there to ruffle a few feathers and start talking crazy. Like about winning 10 games and being the best program in the Northeast and competing for national titles. Even if it might not be entirely possible it's the type of juice and belief the program needs. If you told me Temple would host Game Day and play in primetime as a ranked team even 5 years ago I would have told you you're flippin crazy. Lafayette has potential even with an administration that sucks....

I don't think it's coincidence that Holy Cross and Lafayette have struggled the most recently. They are the two schools with the sketchiest administrations when it comes to athletics in the PL...

The one 9 win season in something like 70 years for Lafayette is what gets me. That is hard to pull off.....

Owl is talking out of his A$$ again.

By my quick count Lafayette has 7 Patriot League championships, which is tied for 2nd best all time with Colgate.

Lehigh has 9, Fordham has 3 (technically 4), Holy Cross 6, Bucknell 1 and 0 for Georgetown. Agree that the program could and should be better, but you are completely discounting a rather solid track record.

I know many are focused on the admin, which are indifferent at best, but the coaching is the #1 issue right now. The admin isn't responsible for a OL coach that can't put together an competent 0-line in 6 years. Our OC does not seem to have a long term plan or culture for his offense. I will admit that he sometimes puts together excellent single games plans, so I don't know what the deal is as he appears capable. Maybe Frank keeps getting in the way. Our new DC seems in over his head. Kids have poor technique and blow assignments all the time- kids that have been around for a while too. The coaching is sub par. Quality coaching can overcome an admin that isn't the greatest really fast. The issues have been hashed out many times, but this program isn't getting better until Frank and his staff is gone.

I am by no means an expert like LeopardBall10, but I know a few guys who coach in the FCS ranks, and I can say without question that some excellent coaches are and will be very interested in this job. If Bruce does his actual damm job for once he could easily stumble into a well qualified young coach. They are out there and they would love to take over at Lafayette. Frank is the man most responsible for holding this program back. I hate to say it but it is true.

Also the 150 jab is pretty off base.. Lehigh fans would've been overjoyed if they won. Fact is that a lot of people that don't normally follow FCS football, or football at all, attended 150 and therefore a lot of dopes got overly excited about beating a crappy Lehigh team. Those of us that know what we are talking about were excited to get the W in a very special game, but realized it ws still a win over a crappy team.

[RichH2]

Patriot League records, since 2010. Five of the seven teams are at or below .500.

The numbers in Easton and Worcester bear a second look.

1. Lehigh: 47-21 (.691)
2. Fordham: 43-28 (.605)
3. Colgate: 34-33 (.507)
4. Bucknell: 28-36 (.438)
5. Georgetown: 26-38 (.406)
6. Holy Cross: 25-41 (.378)
7. Lafayette: 22-44 (.333)
Thanks DFW. A bit surprised initially with 5 of 7 being under 500 and by substantial margins. Should not have been by Pard's record but am that they are dead last .

[Lehigh Football Nation]

You know what also really sticks out? Colgate is only .500 in PL play over that span. I would not have guessed that.

[Franks Tanks]

I don't follow the goings on in Lehigh Valley high school football too closely at this point, but it looks like Easton is having a relatively down year if they are 7-3.

BTW, as someone who has never attended the Easton/Phillipsburg game, how do they split the seating at Fisher Stadium? I assume each school gets half the stands on each side of the field.

One other, semi-OT thought - I only started following Division I-AA/FCS football in earnest in the last 10 years, but I've followed both Lehigh Valley Division I schools in basketball for considerably longer (closely since the late 1990s and more casually since the mid-1980s). To me, what's damning is when I was young (1980s, which encompasses the bulk of my grade school days), Lafayette clearly had a more prominent basketball program than Lehigh. Sure, Lehigh made that fluke NCAA Tournament appearance in 1985 (which is when things started to change, obviously Lehigh had their second, much more legitimate NCAA team in 1988), but the Bethlehem school had limited basketball support and focused much more energy on football and wrestling. They never managed to have a school like Notre Dame come in to play them at home, like Lafayette did in (I think) 1988. However, even with a down period during the late 1990s and early 2000s Sal Mentesana years, Lehigh has built a better basketball program than Lafayette over the last 25-30 years, despite Lafayette probably having a bit more fan support. Lehigh has occasional seasons when they have young teams that are very competitive in the league (like last year) while Lafayette almost never has those type of seasons. Lehigh also has seasons when they have veteran teams that are dominant, 20+ win, top two in the league teams, while Lafayette's veteran teams generally never finish in the top two and need to make surprise runs to even make the Patriot League Tournament championship game, much less win it (such as last year's team, which was the #4 seed going into the PL Tournament...behind Lehigh's much younger 3rd seeded team). The fact Lehigh program-wise has surpassed Lafayette program-wise, at least IMO and probably other many other people's opinions, is arguably more damning than the disparity between the two school's football programs.

Lafayette still has much better fan support. An "average" attendance on a weeknight is usually double at Kirby than at Stabler. The 80's and 90's wasn't a down period fro Lehigh basketball, the entire existence of the program with the exception of the last 10 years or so has been a down period for Lehigh Basketball. Reid is a good recruiter and has a good thing going at the moment. Fran is a very good coach, but his recruiting hasn't been so great as of late.

As far as last years championship it was not a fluke. Many picked the Pards to win the title last year, and they underperformed a bit at times during the regular season.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

A parallel could be made here between Fran O'Hanlon and Frank Tavani, but I'll yield the floor to carney for that one.

[Franks Tanks]

A parallel could be made here between Fran O'Hanlon and Frank Tavani, but I'll yield the floor to carney for that one.

To a degree yes, but Fran is a much, much, much better coach than Frank. Fran teaches his system extremely well. The issue, I think, is that Fran's system and recruiting gets him in trouble. Fran puts an emphasis on shooting to run his system. He has to choose between shooters and athletes, and always chooses shooters so his teams are at an athletic disadvantage, and are sometimes overwhelmed. But Fran is a great teacher of the game.

Frank is not a teacher of the game at all. He says things like he "wants to run the ball" and lets his assistants figure it out. That works if you have a solid staff. Frank was great at getting recruits and $, but I understand his zeal for recruiting has ebbed so his benefit if minimal at this point.

[Bill]

Lafayette still has much better fan support. An "average" attendance on a weeknight is usually double at Kirby than at Stabler. .

Franks - fair point. Of course, it's very tough for Lehigh to get students out for contests at Stabler. It really is a lot of effort, especially if you don't have a car. A big advantage for Lafayette is the walkability to get to the football and basketball games. We both have the same problem for the sports who play at our "distance" campuses, though....

[Gater]

Colgate is 22-12 in PL play since 2010 (including games against Fordham). A little tricky comparing out of conference records. Colgate last played an NEC team in 2012 and doesn't have any on the schedule for the next two years. They also don't play Pioneer teams. Colgate's only "easy" game is against traditional rival Cornell. Aside from Cornell, all of Colgate's out of conference opponents have winning records.

[Franks Tanks]

Franks - fair point. Of course, it's very tough for Lehigh to get students out for contests at Stabler. It really is a lot of effort, especially if you don't have a car. A big advantage for Lafayette is the walkability to get to the football and basketball games. We both have the same problem for the sports who play at our "distance" campuses, though....

Student attendance at our games is decent, but the "good" crowds are mostly made up of folks with white hair. Most I believe are local basketball fans who have probably been attending Lafayette games for many years. We need to attract a new group of fans.

[Pard4Life]

Bill: the same number of students show at games but yes it's a lower proportion than LC.

Chip: disagree with your assessment. Lehigh basketball has only been "something" really within the last ten years.

Bucknell is the white elephant here. LC history and quality was the best in the PL but Bucknell has really built a sustainable foundation. (maybe some Holy Cross people won't read this thread)

Yes Fran is the better coach. But his recruiting and system can drive you nuts. We will never build a team like Bucknell or even Lehigh ie structured good enough to win an NCAA game. Fran has to get lucky someday with a diamond in the rough.

[Bill]

Student attendance at our games is decent, but the "good" crowds are mostly made up of folks with white hair. Most I believe are local basketball fans who have probably been attending Lafayette games for many years. We need to attract a new group of fans.

Not pretending to know the answer....but are the white haired folks walking to the games ? :)

[Ivytalk]

Not pretending to know the answer....but are the white haired folks walking to the games ? :)

Bill, as I'm a white-haired FCS fan, those are fighting words!xtroublex

[carney2]

A parallel could be made here between Fran O'Hanlon and Frank Tavani, but I'll yield the floor to carney for that one.

Parallel? Hardly.

O'Hanlon is a great game day coach because he is a great practice coach. He loves the game if it's played right, and it shows. He is a lackluster recruiter however, particularly when it comes to big men. He usually takes a wing and a prayer on a tall, skinny "project" that doesn't work out. He struck gold three times with big men and the rest of the time just tries to outshoot the other guy.

Tavani has had his moments. He used to be a motivator and a recruiter. Now he's just lazy and looking forward to his next pay envelope. The recruiting has not been good, and is particularly weak when you think of "recruiting for needs." This is year six with no offensive line. This should have been a priority every year. He wants to run the ball and lucked out with Scheuerman. That's one true quality RB since Jonathon Hurt almost 10 years ago. To "establish the run" you need more than that. He needs DL who can rush the passer. He doesn't get them. He needs a deep threat WR, but doesn't have one. As for motivation, look at the results. IMO he has simply been worn down by the culture just like his predecessor. He won't admit it, even to himself, but he has given up.

[carney2]

Not pretending to know the answer....but are the white haired folks walking to the games ? :)

If you know the parking situation at Lafayette, you also know that the answer is yes.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Owl is talking out of his A$$ again.

By my quick count Lafayette has 7 Patriot League championships, which is tied for 2nd best all time with Colgate.

Lehigh has 9, Fordham has 3 (technically 4), Holy Cross 6, Bucknell 1 and 0 for Georgetown. Agree that the program could and should be better, but you are completely discounting a rather solid track record.

I know many are focused on the admin, which are indifferent at best, but the coaching is the #1 issue right now. The admin isn't responsible for a OL coach that can't put together an competent 0-line in 6 years. Our OC does not seem to have a long term plan or culture for his offense. I will admit that he sometimes puts together excellent single games plans, so I don't know what the deal is as he appears capable. Maybe Frank keeps getting in the way. Our new DC seems in over his head. Kids have poor technique and blow assignments all the time- kids that have been around for a while too. The coaching is sub par. Quality coaching can overcome an admin that isn't the greatest really fast. The issues have been hashed out many times, but this program isn't getting better until Frank and his staff is gone.

I am by no means an expert like LeopardBall10, but I know a few guys who coach in the FCS ranks, and I can say without question that some excellent coaches are and will be very interested in this job. If Bruce does his actual damm job for once he could easily stumble into a well qualified young coach. They are out there and they would love to take over at Lafayette. Frank is the man most responsible for holding this program back. I hate to say it but it is true.

Also the 150 jab is pretty off base.. Lehigh fans would've been overjoyed if they won. Fact is that a lot of people that don't normally follow FCS football, or football at all, attended 150 and therefore a lot of dopes got overly excited about beating a crappy Lehigh team. Those of us that know what we are talking about were excited to get the W in a very special game, but realized it ws still a win over a crappy team.

Some of those PL championship teams were not very good, especially '94 and '13. I think Lafayette and the league needs to get to a place where there is life beyond just winning the league because the quality of play is up there nationally. If the PL had 2 or 3 teams vying for playoff position then how many PL titles would matter, but not as much. I don't see too many MVFC people arguing over the league title and its merits. I understand the importance but it's not the #1 way to determine team quality and success.

I just look back at how many really good Lehigh teams didn't earn a title but still had really good years. Lafayette has only had 3-4 years where they finished ranked and have yet to win a playoff game. Raise the bar....

[Pard4Life]

C2 I would also put Maurice White up there as a quality RB but he was injured too frequently to really make it into the conversation of top RBs

[carney2]

Raise the bar....

And there you have both the answer and the question. How? You have to start at the beginning. And that is a coaching change. A new head coach, if properly recruited and selected (not a good bet with AD Bruce McCutchen in the process) would bring a new attitude and new life. It would take him a few years to get ground into the Fisher artificial turf by the culture. As I said previously, a Band-Aid. But, it's a start, and a necessary start.

[Franks Tanks]

Some of those PL championship teams were not very good, especially '94 and '13. I think Lafayette and the league needs to get to a place where there is life beyond just winning the league because the quality of play is up there nationally. If the PL had 2 or 3 teams vying for playoff position then how many PL titles would matter, but not as much. I don't see too many MVFC people arguing over the league title and its merits. I understand the importance but it's not the #1 way to determine team quality and success.

I just look back at how many really good Lehigh teams didn't earn a title but still had really good years. Lafayette has only had 3-4 years where they finished ranked and have yet to win a playoff game. Raise the bar....

A conference title is the 1st goal for any (well 99%) team. For most of the time the PL existed we played by very different rules than the power FCS leagues, and still of course do. It was not feasible for PL teams to say that we expect to win one, two or 3 playoff games. We look to win the league, and hope for a decent matchup or two in the playoffs. That attitude should change with scholarships, but a league title will always be a goal and considered a positive outcome.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

A conference title is the 1st goal for any (well 99%) team. For most of the time the PL existed we played by very different rules than the power FCS leagues, and still of course do. It was not feasible for PL teams to say that we expect to win one, two or 3 playoff games. We look to win the league, and hope for a decent matchup or two in the playoffs. That attitude should change with scholarships, but a league title will always be a goal and considered a positive outcome.

I understand that to a point. But that has not always been the case. There can be success measured in other ways like winning seasons, playoff appearances, rankings, awards etc. All I know is 6 straight losing seasons is not good for Lafayette and it's not good for the league.....

[CHIP72]

RE: Lehigh men's basketball vs Lafayette men's basketball

Lafayette was traditionally much, MUCH better than Lehigh in basketball through the early 1980s. For about 15 years after that (early 1980s to mid-1990s), the two programs were comparable in quality; both had some good years in the late 1980s and early 1990s but were mediocre besides those periods. After Fran O'Hanlon's best run of success in the late 1990s and early 2000s capped by the back-to-back NCAA Tournament appearances (1999 and 2000) put the Leopards ahead of the Mountain Hawks for a few years, IMO Lehigh has generally become a better program during the Billy Taylor/Brett Reed era, which goes back to the 2002-2003 season. I stand by my comments about Lafayette underachieving in the regular season with experienced teams since the early 2000s (their surprise PL Tournament run and NCAA Tournament appearance last year really salvaged what would have been another disappointing season with a veteran team) and Lehigh having some young but surprisingly good teams during the same time period.

My timeline back on Page 2 was a little off (I wasn't following things closely enough to remember the schools actually were comparable success-wise in the 1980s), but it is definitely true that for many years, Lafayette had a much stronger and more well-regarded basketball program than Lehigh. That's no longer the case, and really outside the peak years of the Fran O'Hanlon era in the late 1990s and early 2000s, hasn't been true for 30-35 years.

I do think Lafayette's basketball support is stronger than Lehigh's basketball support, despite Lehigh being moderately more successful over the last decade plus. At least some of that IMO has to do with the perception of the programs, which was shaped decades earlier.

P.S. One of my best-ever college basketball memories was attending the Lafayette/Lehigh regular season game at Stabler Arena in 2004. I think that game was a sellout (official attendance was 5206, probably an all-time Lehigh basketball record), and there were probably 1500 to 2000 Lafayette fans in the building. The atmosphere was definitely the best I've ever experienced at either a Lafayette or Lehigh basketball game. It was like the Palestra moved to the Lehigh Valley (well, technically just south of the Lehigh Valley) for a day.

[carney2]

C2 I would also put Maurice White up there as a quality RB but he was injured too frequently to really make it into the conversation of top RBs

You're right. Coulda. Shoulda. But wasn't. It's still

Tom Costello ... to

Erik Marsh ... to

Leonard Moore ... to

Joe McCourt* ... to

Jonathon Hurt* ... to

Ross Scheuerman*

* Under Frank Tavani as head coach.

Quite a list, but it seems to be winding down. Recruiting!

[Franks Tanks]

I understand that to a point. But that has not always been the case. There can be success measured in other ways like winning seasons, playoff appearances, rankings, awards etc. All I know is 6 straight losing seasons is not good for Lafayette and it's not good for the league.....

Agree 100% that we need to do better. There is no reason why we shouldn't do better.

6 losing seasons in a row is unacceptable. 22-44 (or whatever the record) over that time is abysmal. But a league championship or a win over Lehigh is still a very good thing. It matters, but is not the only thing that matters.

[Franks Tanks]

RE: Lehigh men's basketball vs Lafayette men's basketball

Lafayette was traditionally much, MUCH better than Lehigh in basketball through the early 1980s. For about 15 years after that (early 1980s to mid-1990s), the two programs were comparable in quality; both had some good years in the late 1980s and early 1990s but were mediocre besides those periods. After Fran O'Hanlon's best run of success in the late 1990s and early 2000s capped by the back-to-back NCAA Tournament appearances (1999 and 2000) put the Leopards ahead of the Mountain Hawks for a few years, IMO Lehigh has generally become a better program during the Billy Taylor/Brett Reed era, which goes back to the 2002-2003 season. I stand by my comments about Lafayette underachieving in the regular season with experienced teams since the early 2000s (their surprise PL Tournament run and NCAA Tournament appearance last year really salvaged what would have been another disappointing season with a veteran team) and Lehigh having some young but surprisingly good teams during the same time period.

My timeline back on Page 2 was a little off (I wasn't following things closely enough to remember the schools actually were comparable success-wise in the 1980s), but it is definitely true that for many years, Lafayette had a much stronger and more well-regarded basketball program than Lehigh. That's no longer the case, and really outside the peak years of the Fran O'Hanlon era in the late 1990s and early 2000s, hasn't been true for 30-35 years.

I do think Lafayette's basketball support is stronger than Lehigh's basketball support, despite Lehigh being moderately more successful over the last decade plus. At least some of that IMO has to do with the perception of the programs, which was shaped decades earlier.

P.S. One of my best-ever college basketball memories was attending the Lafayette/Lehigh regular season game at Stabler Arena in 2004. I think that game was a sellout (official attendance was 5206, probably an all-time Lehigh basketball record), and there were probably 1500 to 2000 Lafayette fans in the building. The atmosphere was definitely the best I've ever experienced at either a Lafayette or Lehigh basketball game. It was like the Palestra moved to the Lehigh Valley (well, technically just south of the Lehigh Valley) for a day.

You are mis-remembering. Lehigh basketball was not very good until 2004 outside of a few strong years in the late 80's and early 90's. Lafayette basketball was better than Lehigh basketball for most years in the 80's/90's. Not all but most. Lafayette had some very good teams in the 80's as well. Also the CJ years were obviously great, but Brett Reid has had quite a few below .500 or right around .500 years.

[Pard4Life]

Lafayette would make the ECC title game and lose. It usually won its division.

And last year was not a "shock". It was supposed to be us and Army as the favorites. And Bucknell because that's what they do.

[BucBisonAtLarge]

I don't follow the goings on in Lehigh Valley high school football too closely at this point, but it looks like Easton is having a relatively down year if they are 7-3.

BTW, as someone who has never attended the Easton/Phillipsburg game, how do they split the seating at Fisher Stadium? I assume each school gets half the stands on each side of the field.

One other, semi-OT thought - I only started following Division I-AA/FCS football in earnest in the last 10 years, but I've followed both Lehigh Valley Division I schools in basketball for considerably longer (closely since the late 1990s and more casually since the mid-1980s). To me, what's damning is when I was young (1980s, which encompasses the bulk of my grade school days), Lafayette clearly had a more prominent basketball program than Lehigh. Sure, Lehigh made that fluke NCAA Tournament appearance in 1985 (which is when things started to change, obviously Lehigh had their second, much more legitimate NCAA team in 1988), but the Bethlehem school had limited basketball support and focused much more energy on football and wrestling. They never managed to have a school like Notre Dame come in to play them at home, like Lafayette did in (I think) 1988. However, even with a down period during the late 1990s and early 2000s Sal Mentesana years, Lehigh has built a better basketball program than Lafayette over the last 25-30 years, despite Lafayette probably having a bit more fan support. Lehigh has occasional seasons when they have young teams that are very competitive in the league (like last year) while Lafayette almost never has those type of seasons. Lehigh also has seasons when they have veteran teams that are dominant, 20+ win, top two in the league teams, while Lafayette's veteran teams generally never finish in the top two and need to make surprise runs to even make the Patriot League Tournament championship game, much less win it (such as last year's team, which was the #4 seed going into the PL Tournament...behind Lehigh's much younger 3rd seeded team). The fact Lehigh program-wise has surpassed Lafayette program-wise, at least IMO and probably other many other people's opinions, is arguably more damning than the disparity between the two school's football programs.

I poked around in the PL archives yesterday and, aside from the aforementioned men's hoops program, Lafayette has had a hard time competing across the board, with occasional exceptions, like field hockey this season. The AD must be keeping the trustees otherwise happy.

[Franks Tanks]

I poked around in the PL archives yesterday and, aside from the aforementioned men's hoops program, Lafayette has had a hard time competing across the board, with occasional exceptions, like field hockey this season. The AD must be keeping the trustees otherwise happy.

We are sometimes good at football and basketball. We are pretty decent at men's soccer. That is it. We used to have a good baseball team, but no longer.

On the women's side we are good at field hockey and that is pretty much it. We used to be a women's lax power, but haven't been for some time. Our other women's sports programs are absolutely dreadful. I think softball has had one winning season ever. Both of the swimming programs and just terrible as well.

We are usually last or next to last in the President's cup standing. For a time, maybe in the 90's we were middle of the pack come years in the standing, but I think we have been last or next to last for many years. Most of this is due to our dreadful "non-revenue" sports, although our "good" sports haven't been all that great lately either.

[carney2]

I poked around in the PL archives yesterday and, aside from the aforementioned men's hoops program, Lafayette has had a hard time competing across the board, with occasional exceptions, like field hockey this season. The AD must be keeping the trustees otherwise happy.

You are either not reading, or you're not understanding. The Board of Trustees just doesn't care.

[Go...gate]

You know what also really sticks out? Colgate is only .500 in PL play over that span. I would not have guessed that.

I believe Colgate Football really suffered in the last years of Dave Roach's tenure. Scheduling was awful and I don't think the program was a priority for him the way it was for Fred Dunlap, Mark Murphy, or Vicky Chun. They understood (and understand) that football is important to Colgate.

[Pard4Life]

I quote the venerable Blue Oyster Cult:

"Oh no, you know he's got to go... go go Frankosaurus!"

[LeopardBall10]

Has the apathy grown so great in Leopardville that even our emphatic leader C2 can't bear the thought of keeping up with the Frankosaurus Watch? What dark, dark days are upon us.

[RichH2]

Guess,its a bye week for the watch also :)

[heath]

Agree 100% that we need to do better. There is no reason why we shouldn't do better.

6 losing seasons in a row is unacceptable. 22-44 (or whatever the record) over that time is abysmal. But a league championship or a win over Lehigh is still a very good thing. It matters, but is not the only thing that matters.
Comparing a league championship to a win over Lehigh means you guys still have shot for a really good season. Screw a winning season forever, just win the last game of the year and all is great in Eastonxsmhx

[Franks Tanks]

Comparing a league championship to a win over Lehigh means you guys still have shot for a really good season. Screw a winning season forever, just win the last game of the year and all is great in Eastonxsmhx

I'm not comparing dip****, which is why I used "or" in that sentence. A win over Lehigh is very good. A league championship is very good. Both of those things are goals for the program every year, so achieving one or both is a positive. However, just beating Lehigh or even winning the league isn't necessary good enough. It must be looked at within the context of the season, and the overall direction of the program.

Point is that there is a contingent of Lafayette fans who only care about the Lehigh game, and the same goes for Lehigh, as these people only go to one game a year. Those people ate sorta clueless, but they exist. You can't pretend they don't.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Point is that there is a contingent of Lafayette fans who only care about the Lehigh game, and the same goes for Lehigh, as these people only go to one game a year. Those people ate sorta clueless, but they exist. You can't pretend they don't.

If these fans didn't exist, The Rivalry games wouldn't sell out, fill up Yankee Stadium, etc. Something I sometimes struggle to remember at times.

[Franks Tanks]

If these fans didn't exist, The Rivalry games wouldn't sell out, fill up Yankee Stadium, etc. Something I sometimes struggle to remember at times.

Agree. I'd much rather have these fans than not, but it would be nice if they made it to another game every now and then.

[Ivytalk]

I'm not comparing dip****, which is why I used "or" in that sentence. A win over Lehigh is very good. A league championship is very good. Both of those things are goals for the program every year, so achieving one or both is a positive. However, just beating Lehigh or even winning the league isn't necessary good enough. It must be looked at within the context of the season, and the overall direction of the program.

Point is that there is a contingent of Lafayette fans who only care about the Lehigh game, and the same goes for Lehigh, as these people only go to one game a year. Those people ate sorta clueless, but they exist. You can't pretend they don't.
Substitute Harvard-Yale for Lafayette-Lehigh and you get the same result. I have a young millennial acquaintance who attended a grand total of ONE Harvard FB game in 4 years. It was his senior year Yale game, and only because his girlfriend (now wife) made him go. What a wuss.

[heath]

Agree. I'd much rather have these fans than not, but it would be nice if they made it to another game every now and then.
Yep,most will not show up to support,but are the first to get on the boards and bitch about anything. Look at Lehighs Forum message board, The main voice is a joke that rarely shows up anywhere, so guess he one of those fans,but probably will make the Laffy game so hats off to those guysxlolx

[Go...gate]

Well, he could always go back to show biz. Wasn't he a character on "Hill Street Blues"?:)

AND Daniel J. Travanti (Frank Furillo) had Veronica Hamel (Joyce Davenport) as a very beautiful significant other on the sly.....

[ngineer]

Agree. I'd much rather have these fans than not, but it would be nice if they made it to another game every now and then.

I have recommended in the past the school deny L-L tickets to any student who has not attended 4/5 or 5/6 home games during the season. Plenty of alums get shut out because of the tickets allotted to the undergrads. Like the "Little Red Hen", if you don't help make the pie, you don't get to eat it.

[bison137]

Lafayette would make the ECC title game and lose. It usually won its division.

And last year was not a "shock". It was supposed to be us and Army as the favorites. And Bucknell because that's what they do.


Preseaon pick for 1st last year was American, followed by Army and Holy Cross, so the LC title was at least a minor shock.

[BisonFan02]

Frankosaurus to Delaware? :D

[Pards Rule]

Well, he could always go back to show biz. Wasn't he a character on "Hill Street Blues"?:)

He had a well received appearance on your Fargo sports radio that I listened to the morning I drove to Sisseton SD and back to Fargo (so I could cross SD off my 50 state list - and also nabbed MN by crossing the bridge into Moorhead).

[Pard4Life]

Preseaon pick for 1st last year was American, followed by Army and Holy Cross, so the LC title was at least a minor shock.

The preseason poll is usually based on past year's results. The smart money was on Army, LC, or Bucknell. American lost five of its top six starters heading into 2014-15.

[Pard4Life]

I have recommended in the past the school deny L-L tickets to any student who has not attended 4/5 or 5/6 home games during the season. Plenty of alums get shut out because of the tickets allotted to the undergrads. Like the "Little Red Hen", if you don't help make the pie, you don't get to eat it.

That completely defeats the purpose. If you don't go as an undergrad, why would you go as an alumni?

[GABison]

AND Daniel J. Travanti (Frank Furillo) had Veronica Hamel (Joyce Davenport) as a very beautiful significant other on the sly.....

Good job at figuring out my attempt at cross-linkage humor.

Frank Tavani
Frank Furillo

Frank Tavani
Daniel Travanti

Who wouldn't have cheated on Frank's wife? Man, she was a whiner and Joyce was hot.

Now back to our regular broadcast.

[carney2]

With each passing day the chances that Frank "does the right thing" in 2015 dwindle. Doing it after the game wastes a great opportunity.

2016 looks more and more like a 4 win season in Easton.

But, no, I forget - yet another GREAT recruiting class will be announced on February 2nd. The tradition is secure.

[Pard4Life]

I'm actually holding my breath... IF we win (***IF***) note the IF Lehigh people... that would make it three in a row, and may warrant a contract extension by Bruce.

[CFBfan]

I'm actually holding my breath... IF we win (***IF***) note the IF Lehigh people... that would make it three in a row, and may warrant a contract extension by Bruce.

And IF Frank does win his 3rd straight it is the end for Andy?

[Bill]

And IF Frank does win his 3rd straight it is the end for Andy?
I would think/hope so. I never want to see someone fired... But perhaps he then realizes it's time to go- or perhaps not.

[ngineer]

I really don't want to talk/think about that as it means thinking about losing to the Leotards. However, even if the worst were to happen, unless it would be a complete wipe out, I think Andy comes back because of all the optimism about next season and the Soph and Frosh class. At the same time, I would think a change is necessary at DC. The scheme run at Colgate was not adjusted. The goalline D was lousy. We did nothing to add pressure. I think a new voice is needed on Defense.

[Pard4Life]

Who said this game was 'meaningless'? Lots of things on the line Saturday:

- Will Coen get fired with a loss?

- Will Frank get a contract extension with a victory?

- Will carney stay the fourth quarter if the Pards are down by 30?

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

I really don't want to talk/think about that as it means thinking about losing to the Leotards. However, even if the worst were to happen, unless it would be a complete wipe out, I think Andy comes back because of all the optimism about next season and the Soph and Frosh class. At the same time, I would think a change is necessary at DC. The scheme run at Colgate was not adjusted. The goalline D was lousy. We did nothing to add pressure. I think a new voice is needed on Defense.

How much optimism would there be with a 5-6 record, a 3-3 PL record (very "meh" PL) and a loss to your 1-9 rival for the 3rd straight year? Likely picked for 4th or 5th again next year. Honestly, a loss here would be 10x worse than last year. You can't lose to a 1-9 team as a coaching staff and as a team. The preparation and focus has to there to succeed for 60 minutes....

The worst part for Lehigh is the fact they are 1-9. This is a historically bad Leopard team from a record standpoint. Bye week, healthy bodies are no excuse...

[DFW HOYA]

- Will Coen get fired with a loss?


No.



- Will Frank get a contract extension with a victory?

No.



- Will carney stay the fourth quarter if the Pards are down by 30?

Yes.

[melloware13]

Frankosaurus to Delaware? :D
NO! We need that road OOC win for next year (other option would be Wake Forest, both could be winnable based on average seasons). I honestly would be curious to see the result of Easton HS v Lafayette, but the Rovers are busy having Parkland on Friday, then P-burg on Thanksgiving.

[Pard4Life]

NO! We need that road OOC win for next year (other option would be Wake Forest, both could be winnable based on average seasons). I honestly would be curious to see the result of Easton HS v Lafayette, but the Rovers are busy having Parkland on Friday, then P-burg on Thanksgiving.

You set your sights too high... this weekend's score: Forks Township 48, Lafayette 7

[LeopardBall10]

You set your sights too high... this weekend's score: Forks Township 48, Lafayette 7
Those little guys are FAST!

[PAllen]

I really don't want to talk/think about that as it means thinking about losing to the Leotards. However, even if the worst were to happen, unless it would be a complete wipe out, I think Andy comes back because of all the optimism about next season and the Soph and Frosh class. At the same time, I would think a change is necessary at DC. The scheme run at Colgate was not adjusted. The goalline D was lousy. We did nothing to add pressure. I think a new voice is needed on Defense.

How many years have we heard that now though? We've had DC after co-DCs after DC all with the same miserable results. While I agree Andy's safe until at least next year, when does the responsibility for an abysmal defense and mediocre seasons start to filter up to the HC?

[LeopardBall10]

when does the responsibility for an abysmal defense and mediocre seasons start to filter up to the HC?

Probably right after Frank get's run out of Easton on a rail, so in other words, probably never.

[RichH2]

How many years have we heard that now though? We've had DC after co-DCs after DC all with the same miserable results. While I agree Andy's safe until at least next year, when does the responsibility for an abysmal defense and mediocre seasons start to filter up to the HC?
D has been consistently bad since Coach K went to Stanford. We are paying the ptice for bad recruiting,particularly on DLine, for at least the first 2 years post-K. The frosh and soph classes have very good talent. DC had a good run in his first stint at LU. Not impressed this time. Players are more aggressive and in position more often than not this year,but the end result is little different from the last 2 years.

[carney2]

Yesterday (Tuesday) was media day and Frank's last chance to do the right thing before no. 151. Didn't happen. The odds of looking at The Frankosaurus on the sidelines in 2016 have skyrocketed. Circling the bowl is in the past tense for this program.

[carney2]

No 1-10 coach should still be employed.

[crusader11]

So, is he coming back?

[Engineer86]

No 1-10 coach should still be employed.

Aslong as that 1 does not come in late November and in other seasons he beats some OOC opponents, I am fine with full employment, unless it is at LU

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

No 1-10 coach should still be employed.

No 1-10 coach with 6 straight losing seasons should be employed....

[Lehigh'98]

Tavani should be proud of what he accomplished there given the lack of support. It's time for a new coach now though.

[carney2]

So, is he coming back?

He hasn't resigned and he has one year remaining on the current contract. It doesn't look good.

[Ivytalk]

He hasn't resigned and he has one year remaining on the current contract. It doesn't look good.

Just like the Terminator, "I'll be back! "

[carney2]

Don't have any idea what the timing is on things like this. You know,

"It was a difficult season on me and my family. I also have some health concerns, as many of you know, so I've decided to forego the final year of my contract and step down effective [fill in the date]."

Let's just say if loyal Pards are buying little stuffed Frankosaurs to put under their trees on December 25th, we're almost certainly looking at yet one more year in he!!.

[ngineer]

Frank quoted in the Morning Call about having some hospital procedure done this week. Not related to past heart condition. Says he'll be out about a week. No indication this is a 'serious' condition no hint that this would force him to leave early. With all the injuries and pre-season distraction, I think he gets a pass and will be allowed to try and finish out his contract with a 'rebound' season next year. Plus, #152 is at Fisher and it would be fitting place for him to finish out.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Frank quoted in the Morning Call about having some hospital procedure done this week. Not related to past heart condition. Says he'll be out about a week. No indication this is a 'serious' condition no hint that this would force him to leave early. With all the injuries and pre-season distraction, I think he gets a pass and will be allowed to try and finish out his contract with a 'rebound' season next year. Plus, #152 is at Fisher and it would be fitting place for him to finish out.

How will he be able to recruit given a hospital procedure? Aren't the next two weeks huge in recruiting before the "dead" period? I don't see how can Lafayette recruit in general given the last six seasons and having what amounts to a lame duck coach? The whole thing is ugly.....

[DFW HOYA]

Frank tends to be a punching bag in some quarters but I think he should be given much more credit for rebuilding the program following the failed Rothkopf Plan to drive Lafayette into the netherworld of Division III. Maybe Tavani won't get carried off the field like Frank Beamer did yesterday, but maybe it's worth some credit at #152 where it is due.

The problem facing Lafayette is that the PL scholarship decision essentially hardened three tiers in the league standings going forward, based on funding:

1. The $5 Million+ Club: Fordham, Colgate, and Lehigh
2. The $4 Million+ Club: Lafayette, Holy Cross, Bucknell
3. Georgetown

Unless the College is willing to spend like Fordham and Colgate (which is is not), one can't reasonably expect Tavani's successor to be the next Joe Moorhead.

[Pards Rule]

How will he be able to recruit given a hospital procedure? Aren't the next two weeks huge in recruiting before the "dead" period? I how can Lafayette recruit in general given the last six seasons and having what amounts to a lame duck coach? The whole thing is ugly.....

Basically, our conundrum..The MC (Morning Call) article stated he was to have another procedure tomorrow? What is happening here? Well who knows what the next year will bring. Look at where Andy Coen was exactly one year ago today at Yankee Stadium for #150!! I think LC will let him coach out the contract and hope for a complete rebound year. This was the historically worse record since Lafayette started football in 1882 (1-10)!!! But the lame duck coach issue is the huge issue.

[Franks Tanks]

Frank tends to be a punching bag in some quarters but I think he should be given much more credit for rebuilding the program following the failed Rothkopf Plan to drive Lafayette into the netherworld of Division III. Maybe Tavani won't get carried off the field like Frank Beamer did yesterday, but maybe it's worth some credit at #152 where it is due.

The problem facing Lafayette is that the PL scholarship decision essentially hardened three tiers in the league standings going forward, based on funding:

1. The $5 Million+ Club: Fordham, Colgate, and Lehigh
2. The $4 Million+ Club: Lafayette, Holy Cross, Bucknell
3. Georgetown

Unless the College is willing to spend like Fordham and Colgate (which is is not), one can't reasonably expect Tavani's successor to be the next Joe Moorhead.

This is BS. Lafayette spent more than Lehigh in the latest numbers I saw, and just a bit less than Colgate. Competent coaching is much more important in this league than a few hundred grand more to spend.

[Franks Tanks]

How will he be able to recruit given a hospital procedure? Aren't the next two weeks huge in recruiting before the "dead" period? I don't see how can Lafayette recruit in general given the last six seasons and having what amounts to a lame duck coach? The whole thing is ugly.....

Frank doesn't recruit so it doesn't really matter anyway. Frank also doesn't coach because he is incapable of doing so. I know that sounds crazy but it is true. A man that has coached for decades has no idea how to break down film, create a game plan or teach the game. Lafayette football has had some success over the years in spite of Frank, and not because of him.

The fact that our AD has allowed this situation to go on for as long as it has is shameful. Bruce either has no spine or is a complete moron( or both). I agree that it is shameful, and until something happens the school won't really be getting my support or money.

[Neighbor2]

This is BS. Lafayette spent more than Lehigh in the latest numbers I saw, and just a bit less than Colgate. Competent coaching is much more important in this league than a few hundred grand more to spend.

Good point!

Few seem to appreciate that a well-managed, WINNING program can increase home attendance, booster items, advertising revenue etc. In this league, not by several thousand more attendees, but 2-3 thousand more is doable. That's new revenue just by making better choices. I tire of hearing how 'poor' both Lehigh and Lafayette are. This is about priority.

[ngineer]

Good point!

Few seem to appreciate that a well-managed, WINNING program can increase home attendance, booster items, advertising revenue etc. In this league, not by several thousand more attendees, but 2-3 thousand more is doable. That's new revenue just by making better choices. I tire of hearing how 'poor' both Lehigh and Lafayette are. This is about priority.

Bing, Bing, Bing. As in everything. The priority put into athletics is seen in the budgets. And while LU and LC and their kindred spend millions on athletics, it pales in comparison to most other schools at the D-I level. Sports are not seen as a revenue generator but as a compliment to an excellent educational environment. We measure ourselves against our bretheran and enjoy the challenge of 'stepping up' into the nether world of big time athletics from time to time. I would agree that some schools in the PL seem to want to win more than others, in all sports; but it is not the be-all an end-all that the few of us "fan" atics on here view.

[hawkineer]

[/B]Bing, Bing, Bing. As in everything. The priority put into athletics is seen in the budgets. And while LU and LC and their kindred spend millions on athletics, it pales in comparison to most other schools at the D-I level. Sports are not seen as a revenue generator but as a compliment to an excellent educational environment. We measure ourselves against our bretheran and enjoy the challenge of 'stepping up' into the nether world of big time athletics from time to time. I would agree that some schools in the PL seem to want to win more than others, in all sports; but it is not the be-all an end-all that the few of us "fan" atics on here view.So how would some of the LU alumni feel if the wrestling program took the same attitude? Wrestling is just here to complement the educational experience and not compete on the national level or not crown National Champions. I suspect not too well!

As has been stated on other forums, PL schools are not competing to be Alabama or Ohio State. However, there should be expectations and aspirations that we can compete regularly against CAA, NEC, and IL schools, as has been the case in the recent past. If not, I would like to understand the rationale of going to scholarships. I'll argue that it is the schools, themselves, and the league that raised the expectations when the chose to move away from needs based assistance to schollies, not the fans.

[ngineer]

So how would some of the LU alumni feel if the wrestling program took the same attitude? Wrestling is just here to complement the educational experience and not compete on the national level or not crown National Champions. I suspect not too well!

As has been stated on other forums, PL schools are not competing to be Alabama or Ohio State. However, there should be expectations and aspirations that we can compete regularly against CAA, NEC, and IL schools, as has been the case in the recent past. If not, I would like to understand the rationale of going to scholarships. I'll argue that it is the schools, themselves, and the league that raised the expectations when the chose to move away from needs based assistance to schollies, not the fans.

I don't disagree. The question is how far down the "yellow brick road" we go toward Oz. We have chosen to compete at a certain level and part of the educational mission is to strive beyond one's reach. That is what the PL does within our model when we elect to compete against the CAA, SoCon, MVC, etc. It's why we compete against Syracuse, Virginia and Purdue this year in basketball. Wrestling is a tradition of the school wherein we elect to play with the "big boys" of collegiate wrestling. We have never won a team title, and with our model, it is highly unlikely for us to ever do that; however, that is not to say we should not "strive mightily" to try (channeling TR Roosevelt). In the process we have achieved great success and recognition for the University by achieving 27 National individual titles and about 140 All-Americans. Knowing the greater obstacles in our path than for the 'wrestling factories" makes the success all the more sweeter. The same is with the other sports. Soccer this year won the PL but lost in OT in the NCAA first round. One of the major lessons of athletics is experiencing sacrifice, discipline and leadership. When combined with solid academics, it is a great incubator for tomorrow's leaders. We choose to play at the FCS level because it is at a level within which we have the ability to compete and be challenged. While we know that we do not expect to be like the Alabamas, of the world, I think we subconsciously measure ourselves against those models because of all the exposure in the media. Overall, I think the PL does compete well with the IL, CAA, NEC, etc. Football has just begun a transition that is not complete with the scholarships and how they should be managed. We are experiencing a learning curve and I would hope once fully implemented and the recruitment acclimated to the requirements, we will compete more regularly with those conferences in football.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I don't disagree. The question is how far down the "yellow brick road" we go toward Oz. We have chosen to compete at a certain level and part of the educational mission is to strive beyond one's reach. That is what the PL does within our model when we elect to compete against the CAA, SoCon, MVC, etc. It's why we compete against Syracuse, Virginia and Purdue this year in basketball. Wrestling is a tradition of the school wherein we elect to play with the "big boys" of collegiate wrestling. We have never won a team title, and with our model, it is highly unlikely for us to ever do that; however, that is not to say we should not "strive mightily" to try (channeling TR Roosevelt). In the process we have achieved great success and recognition for the University by achieving 27 National individual titles and about 140 All-Americans. Knowing the greater obstacles in our path than for the 'wrestling factories" makes the success all the more sweeter. The same is with the other sports. Soccer this year won the PL but lost in OT in the NCAA first round. One of the major lessons of athletics is experiencing sacrifice, discipline and leadership. When combined with solid academics, it is a great incubator for tomorrow's leaders. We choose to play at the FCS level because it is at a level within which we have the ability to compete and be challenged. While we know that we do not expect to be like the Alabamas, of the world, I think we subconsciously measure ourselves against those models because of all the exposure in the media. Overall, I think the PL does compete well with the IL, CAA, NEC, etc. Football has just begun a transition that is not complete with the scholarships and how they should be managed. We are experiencing a learning curve and I would hope once fully implemented and the recruitment acclimated to the requirements, we will compete more regularly with those conferences in football.

I would only like to add that, in football, the best way to pursue this laudable goal would be to increase squad sizes. This was really on display in road games against the Ivies, where the squad size difference was a massive limitation.

[Neighbor2]

I'm thinking we older, experienced observers of Patriot League sports have more interest in such laudable goals than do most of the young athletes in the recruitment pool. Prospective recruits want to win. They want to win immediately and do it often. They want their experience to be full of excitement and success. They want a program that's clicking on all cylinders in terms of fan interest, media attention, facilities, and respect for high achievement. Most importantly, they want all of this NOW. Merely doing 'well' in our league, yet still being mid-to-lower level within our national category might not be attractive enough for some, despite all the intrinsic benefits they will only recognize years later.

No, this won't ever be the BCS, and that's a good thing! FCS, or lower, is the neighborhood. Regardless of level, it's just much more fun for everyone at the top. Get there!

[carney2]

Returning to the topic at hand,

Frank will be hospitalized this week for an unexplained "medical procedure." The situation caused him to be hospitalized during the bye week and has caused him significant pain since. He apparently was in some physical distress at the end of the Lehigh game. No information and no need to speculate, but there is no reason to believe that it is "serious" as in heart or cancer. Could be anything, and given his age (62) and athletic background, muscular-skeletal would be a good guess.

One guy on the Lafayette board who claims "inside information" says there will be a coaching change, and soon. This same individual has been making these mysterious and veiled statements for weeks. And, exactly what does "coaching change" mean?

What we know is that as of today Frank Tavani is still the head football coach, and there is no credible information to make you believe that will change.

[carney2]

Beyond Frank, what else could change? Any rats deserting the sinking ship?

Assistants with career aspirations should probably give serious consideration to moving on, even if it requires a step backwards:

Mickey Fein, offensive coordinator, QBs and WRs - Was, I believe, fired from his last job (Murray State?) and has not distinguished himself in his 7 years on College Hill. Current QBs seem to be regressing under his tutelage. Some believe that he considers himself head coach in waiting. Don't know about that, but if he has options, it isn't obvious..

Art Link, DC, LBs - LB corps fairly strong, but overall defensive play has been disappointing. Only 2 years as a DC, but if he has options, he should probably give them some consideration.

Stan Clayton, OL - Stan has been investigating head coaching positions since the day he arrived at Lafayette. For six years the OL has been the team's most glaring weakness. Not sure that it's all Clayton's fault, but six years is not a strong resume'. If he had options he would have jumped before now.

How about players? I have no inside information, but one kid stands out. 3rd team QB Josh Davis from California entered as a 2-star recruit. He will be a junior in the upcoming season and almost literally has yet to get a grass stain on his uniform. If you can't get on the field in a 1-10 season you should be asking yourself why you are still here.

[carney2]

Turkeys have been roasted, devoured and digested, and, to the best of anyone's knowledge, Frank Tavani is still receiving pay checks from Lafayette College. (Another thread has discussed how you need to be a serial killer or commit a dire politically incorrect offense to be terminated from a Patriot League coaching position. Personally, I have puzzled mightily over how one gets one of these equivalents of a Tony Soprano no-show job for life, and have reached the conclusion that there are no equivalents in the real world.) Frank's "medical procedure" (kidney stones) is behind him, and all hope that it went well.

On the transfer front, sophomore TE Quinn Smith, a heavily starred recruit from California, has decided that his football dreams will best be realized at another school. In reality, Smith had never advanced far on the depth chart, and fellow sophomore Dylan Wadsworth appears to be the TE of the future.

With Jack Cosgrove ending his 23 year tenure as Maine's head coach, there has been speculation that Lafayette OC Mickey Fein, a former Maine QB, would be in contention for the job. As pointed out earlier in this thread, Fein's 7 years or so at Lafayette have not been distinguished so he may be locked in place.

[Pard4Life]

I am praying Mickey Fein gets hired at Maine.

[ngineer]

Notice how Franklin has wasted no time in changing things at PSU after another dismal offensive year. It's a different world.

[Pards Rule]

I am praying Mickey Fein gets hired at Maine.

Indeed!! I wonder what is in Bruce's mind. OK, let Frank play out his final year of contract but what about recruiting? Kids want to know who their HC is going to be for the next (presumably) four years. Do they name an Associate Head Coach (like the guy that just got fricking fired at SIU) for the final year and give him a contract the beginning of next year to be HC upon the conclusion of the 2016 season? I will NOT be satisfied with Fein as HC in Easton, PA. I would with Bob Heffner! :) Sorry Carney couldn't resist!!

[carney2]

Indeed!! I wonder what is in Bruce's mind. OK, let Frank play out his final year of contract but what about recruiting? Kids want to know who their HC is going to be for the next (presumably) four years. Do they name an Associate Head Coach (like the guy that just got fricking fired at SIU) for the final year and give him a contract the beginning of next year to be HC upon the conclusion of the 2016 season? I will NOT be satisfied with Fein as HC in Easton, PA. I would with Bob Heffner! :) Sorry Carney couldn't resist!!

Yeah, Heffner and his AARP card. Not what Lafayette football needs at the moment. But that's a discussion for a different time. On to the rest of your commentary:

Bruce probably has nothing on his mind. Does he have the authority to intervene in this situation in any way? Remember, the idiots in charge have apparently given both Frank and Bruce the equivalent of academic tenure. And, at no time has Bruce ever acted as if he has the authority of a real AD. If Frank states that he wants an extension after next year, does he get it? I'm betting he would.

[Franks Tanks]

Indeed!! I wonder what is in Bruce's mind. OK, let Frank play out his final year of contract but what about recruiting? Kids want to know who their HC is going to be for the next (presumably) four years. Do they name an Associate Head Coach (like the guy that just got fricking fired at SIU) for the final year and give him a contract the beginning of next year to be HC upon the conclusion of the 2016 season? I will NOT be satisfied with Fein as HC in Easton, PA. I would with Bob Heffner! :) Sorry Carney couldn't resist!!

Bruce's inability to make any kind of decision has really set us up for disaster. You cannot have a coach with one year left on his contract and no action one way or the other, especially with a guy like Frank who is at retirement age. Frank either needs to be extended (dear god no), or let go. Or at the very least let us know this is Frank's last rodeo.

Frank has achieved below average results for over a 1/2 decade. He is 62, and has had some serious health issues recently. Most schools would tell him it is time, and offer him a position on fund raising for a few more years until he is really ready to go, but no not us. The program will not improve until Frank and staff are gone and we have new blood, so we are just wasting another year.

A true doomsday scenario would be if some our assistants leave, and I wouldn't blame them if they could get something decent elsewhere. Now we have a lame duck coaching needing to hire assistants. What kind of quality would Frank be able to attract in such a scenario? We all know what needs to be done, but at the very least something needs to be done/the situation addressed. Instead our AD is to bust congratulating other schools on twitter while his own athletic department is absolutely terrible.

[Franks Tanks]

Yeah, Heffner and his AARP card. Not what Lafayette football needs at the moment. But that's a discussion for a different time. On to the rest of your commentary:

Bruce probably has nothing on his mind. Does he have the authority to intervene in this situation in any way? Remember, the idiots in charge have apparently given both Frank and Bruce the equivalent of academic tenure. And, at no time has Bruce ever acted as if he has the authority of a real AD. If Frank states that he wants an extension after next year, does he get it? I'm betting he would.

Agree that the ship has sailed on Bob Heffner being the HC here. He seems to have tremendous job security, and a very nice salary at Northwestern, and would probably like to finish his career there. Heff also doesn't seem like a guy who has a burning desire to be a HC. Sure he would pursue the right opportunity, but he seems incredibly content at the moment.

Also I'm afraid you are right concerning Bruce and Frank.

[blackbeard]

How hard would it be to pay him for the last year of his contract, move him into the AD Office as a special assistant to the AD, and hire a new Football coach?

[Franks Tanks]

How hard would it be to pay him for the last year of his contract, move him into the AD Office as a special assistant to the AD, and hire a new Football coach?

You would think that would happen wouldn't you. Then again this is the same school that interrupted our football game to trot out a guy dressed in a Halloween costume. Sorry about that.

[ngineer]

Indeed!! I wonder what is in Bruce's mind. OK, let Frank play out his final year of contract but what about recruiting? Kids want to know who their HC is going to be for the next (presumably) four years. Do they name an Associate Head Coach (like the guy that just got fricking fired at SIU) for the final year and give him a contract the beginning of next year to be HC upon the conclusion of the 2016 season? I will NOT be satisfied with Fein as HC in Easton, PA. I would with Bob Heffner! :) Sorry Carney couldn't resist!!

Interesting that Frank was given a multi-year contract several years ago (I forget following which season). As far as I know, Coen has been on a year to year basis ever since his original 3-4 year deal expired. Meets with Sterrett at the end of the season and they renew if both are satisfied. That is not school policy,however, as I know multi-year contracts have been given in the past to a, then, current coach. Fred Dunlap was given a three year deal to start in 1965, and then had several one year extensions after that...UNTIL the "turnaround" became apparent in 1970, and then gave him a three year extension, as there were rumors then that Dunlap might leave for a DC position with an FBS type school. Lafayette may be more into the 'tenure' perspective with some of their coaches who have been around awhile. The B-ball coach is another guy who has been there awhile. There is something about longevity that leads to a certain point where people know the cord should be cut, but no one wants to be the "dick" to do it.

[carney2]

How hard would it be to pay him for the last year of his contract, move him into the AD Office as a special assistant to the AD, and hire a new Football coach?

You're new at this, aren't you? All that you say may be logical, but it assumes that those in authority give a crap - or even a half-hearted grunt - about the football program. 1-10, 0-11, losing for season after season - all are just fine at Lafayette. It gives the people in charge the comforting feeling that this athletics thing has not gotten out of hand and that the College has its priorities straight. If athletics in general, and football in particular, are just not important to the people making the decisions, you cannot, as Jean Luc Picard used to say (or is it will say in a couple hundred years), make it so.

[RichH2]

You're new at this, aren't you? All that you say may be logical, but it assumes that those in authority give a crap - or even a half-hearted grunt - about the football program. 1-10, 0-11, losing for season after season - all are just fine at Lafayette. It gives the people in charge the comforting feeling that this athletics thing has not gotten out of hand and that the College has its priorities straight. If athletics in general, and football in particular, are just not important to the people making the decisions, you cannot, as Jean Luc Picard used to say (or is it will say in a couple hundred years), make it so.
May help to call in Capt. Kirk for the Tavani Conundrum.Beam him up,Scottie. :)

[ngineer]

Maybe if they renamed Fisher Field, Jurassic Stadium ("Park" would be a trademark problem) Frank could summon the beasts within and lay siege upon the PL. (;-)

[blackbeard]

You would think that would happen wouldn't you. Then again this is the same school that interrupted our football game to trot out a guy dressed in a Halloween costume. Sorry about that.

Yeah I still remember it. The scars were minimized by a last second field goal.

[CHIP72]

Maybe if they renamed Fisher Field, Jurassic Stadium ("Park" would be a trademark problem) Frank could summon the beasts within and lay siege upon the PL. (;-)

In keeping with the spirit of this thread, I prefer Frankosaurus Field.

[carney2]

In keeping with the spirit of this thread, I prefer Frankosaurus Field.

Right now almost anything official that includes "former head football coach Frank Tavani" would be welcome.

[carney2]

Rumor on the Lafayette board that there will be a meeting this week about the football program that will include Tavani, McCutcheon and members of the administration. Any thoughts as to what might be on the agenda? I'll get it started:

Discussion of uniform colors. Should the dismal grays from the 2011 Lehigh game be resurrected?

Should we do a press release summarizing 2015's "Best of the Wheel of Excuses?"

Perhaps a plaque should be installed near the Leopard statue inscribed with the immortal "Back to the drawing board?"

Some alums and fans seem a bit disgruntled. How best to tell them to go f#%k themselves?

C'mon, you can top these.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Pretty sure they're going to have a long in-depth discussion as to how the Leopards can beat New Hampshire next week

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

I was reading an old article that suggested Coen signed a one year extension over the summer of 2009 that covered him through 2010. When he hired Cecchini after the 4-7 2009 season did he feel he was hiring his eventual heir apparent? I have to think that was a very awkward offseason for Lehigh football. It's kind amazing how it ultimately worked out. I wonder just how close he was to being let go. I believe the article was in the Express-Times circa early December 2009.....

The reason I bring this is up is because I'm interested to see if a succession plan comes about from 'Pard land over the next few weeks.....

[Pards Rule]

I was reading an old article that suggested Coen signed a one year extension over the summer of 2009 that covered him through 2010. When he hired Cecchini after the 4-7 2009 season did he feel he was hiring his eventual heir apparent? I have to think that was a very awkward offseason for Lehigh football. It's kind amazing how it ultimately worked out. I wonder just how close he was to being let go. I believe the article was in the Express-Times circa early December 2009.....

The reason I bring this is up is because I'm interested to see if a succession plan comes about from 'Pard land over the next few weeks.....

Good point..I will be awaiting too. Purportedly, Lafayette admin and Coach Tavani were having this meeting this week. We need a resolution on what to tell the market.

[LeopardBall10]

That is not typically how these conversations or contracts work. I say typically because Lafayette is obviously going against idea that makes any sense by choosing not to do anything at all, creating a lame duck head coach with no power and no options. However... most institutions would only ever honor a coach-in-waiting type of situation if the Assistant Head Coach (a title Lafayette has not bestowed on anyone) has already been running the program for a few years for a figure head coach, and the program has been going in the right direction in his stead.

Now, one can make a lot of arguments that Frank may or may not be running the day to day of the team, but one thing is for sure, and that is the current trend of the team under this staff. A coach in waiting makes absolutely no sense. But then again, neither does anything that the current administration is doing with Frank's contract.

For Frank's Tanks and the rest of you who feel the same way, you may want to read the recent Q&A with Todd Stewart the AD at WKU HERE (http://www.courier-journal.com/story/sports/college/kentuckiana/2015/12/02/qa-wku-athletic-director-has-football-coaches-bowls-short-list/76663770/). Obviously WKU is not Lafayette and they are not in the Patriot League. But one thing he said sticks out:


The way I try to look at it is, if somebody’s interested in our coach, that means we're having a great season, and that’s a good problem to have. If you go three to five years and nobody’s interested in your people, then maybe you don’t have the right people.

We understand that the PL may not pay as well as other leagues and there are some intrinsic difficulties that go with recruiting and playing in this high academic league. But other than the Lehigh staff recently and probably Moorehead soon who has been courted by other schools? Why isn't the PL a breeding ground for movers and shakers in the coaching world? Simply put, the league doesn't have the right people.

[Franks Tanks]

That is not typically how these conversations or contracts work. I say typically because Lafayette is obviously going against idea that makes any sense by choosing not to do anything at all, creating a lame duck head coach with no power and no options. However... most institutions would only ever honor a coach-in-waiting type of situation if the Assistant Head Coach (a title Lafayette has not bestowed on anyone) has already been running the program for a few years for a figure head coach, and the program has been going in the right direction in his stead.

Now, one can make a lot of arguments that Frank may or may not be running the day to day of the team, but one thing is for sure, and that is the current trend of the team under this staff. A coach in waiting makes absolutely no sense. But then again, neither does anything that the current administration is doing with Frank's contract.

For Frank's Tanks and the rest of you who feel the same way, you may want to read the recent Q&A with Todd Stewart the AD at WKU HERE (http://www.courier-journal.com/story/sports/college/kentuckiana/2015/12/02/qa-wku-athletic-director-has-football-coaches-bowls-short-list/76663770/). Obviously WKU is not Lafayette and they are not in the Patriot League. But one thing he said sticks out:



We understand that the PL may not pay as well as other leagues and there are some intrinsic difficulties that go with recruiting and playing in this high academic league. But other than the Lehigh staff recently and probably Moorehead soon who has been courted by other schools? Why isn't the PL a breeding ground for movers and shakers in the coaching world? Simply put, the league doesn't have the right people.



Great point!

We had quite a few assistants leave from our glory years, because those guys were good coaches and got better opportunities. The lack of interest in our current staff is telling. Back in the day there were always rumors that Russo was going to be poached by an Ivy (for example) I don't recall anyone ever wanting Frank!

Biddle, Moorhead and of course Higgins are 3 PL coaches I recall that had other programs after them. Biddle of course stayed, Higgins left and we shall see about Moorhead.

Moorhead is tremendous. Hunt and Susan and the guy at Georgetown are quality coaches. The other 3 guys are lucky they are still employed at their respective schools.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Worthy of keeping in mind here is that Dan Hunt was essentially running the day-to-day in Biddle's last season and was for all practical purposes coach-in-waiting. I was openly wondering if the same type of thing could happen at Lafayette.

I'm not speculating as to what Lafayette will do, but Colgate essentially did something that looks a lot like the coach-in-waiting situation... and they're still playing football games in December.

[CFBfan]

Worthy of keeping in mind here is that Dan Hunt was essentially running the day-to-day in Biddle's last season and was for all practical purposes coach-in-waiting. I was openly wondering if the same type of thing could happen at Lafayette.

I'm not speculating as to what Lafayette will do, but Colgate essentially did something that looks a lot like the coach-in-waiting situation... and they're still playing football games in December.

TOTALY DIFFERENT SITUATION:

Dan Hunt was on staff for almost 20 years, NO ONE was calling for Biddle to leave, Biddle NEVER graduated a class without a ring including now his last class which is this years junior class, Biddle retiring was a surprise to most including everyone on this board, etc, etc, etc

[Lehigh Football Nation]

http://www.myrtlebeachonline.com/sports/college/big-south/coastal-carolina-university/article47859095.html


“I know my name gets thrown around a lot as far as other opportunities go, but I’d say the exact same thing that I’ve always said and that is I’m privileged and honored to be the guy responsible for this program,” he said in his office Wednesday. “I love the role I play on this campus, I love working with Matt [Hogue], I think the world of Dr. DeCenzo, I really do like it here. But if I had an opportunity I really thought was a special opportunity, I would have to seriously consider that. Just like I would tell anybody I care about to consider that. From my perspective, that hasn’t changed at all.”

Trying to picture this phone call from Easton.

[carney2]

You people are a hoot. We have

"Purportedly, Lafayette admin and Coach Tavani were having this meeting this week. We need a resolution on what to tell the market."

When was the last time that any information - ANY FREAKIN' INFORMATION AT ALL - leaked out of the Star Chamber that is Lafayette? Dick Cheney was a blabbermouth compared to anyone in Easton. They will meet. You will hear nothing.

And, how about

"Lafayette is ... creating a lame duck head coach."

Who says? Tavani is only a lame duck if he says he's a lame duck. A lot of people are counting on his health situation and final year of the contract making something of a cast in stone situation. Ain't so. If Frank wants an extension (I'm not saying he will), he gets it. Take it to the bank.

[Pards Rule]

http://www.myrtlebeachonline.com/sports/college/big-south/coastal-carolina-university/article47859095.html



Trying to picture this phone call from Easton.

And hell he was at Lafayette albeit for one year in 1980...And we wouldn't have to pay him top dollar - damn hes a multi-millionaire!

[CFBfan]

And hell he was at Lafayette albeit for one year in 1980...And we wouldn't have to pay him top dollar - damn hes a multi-millionaire!

the person that teams should be going after is Dave Patenaude the OC for CCU, he absolutely revitalized the entire Georgetown team when went there for the '09 season as OC as GU posted 3 nice season in a row before he left for CCU. Under Patenaude the CCU offense has been high flying.
He would be a GREAT hire (he went to GU after Hofstra killed their program)
He is a GREAT coach, if LC ever grabbed him, look out PL

[Go...gate]

TOTALY DIFFERENT SITUATION:

Dan Hunt was on staff for almost 20 years, NO ONE was calling for Biddle to leave, Biddle NEVER graduated a class without a ring including now his last class which is this years junior class, Biddle retiring was a surprise to most including everyone on this board, etc, etc, etc

Biddle could have stayed as long as he cared. At Colgate, he is considered in a class with Andy Kerr, Fred Dunlap, Terry Slater (Hockey) and Jack Bruen (Men's Basketball) - all legendary and beloved coaches and members of the Colgate Family.

[ngineer]

If indeed there is such a meeting, it has to be about Frank's plan for leaving. HIS plan. Whether 2016 will be his last, or whether he wants to get to 66 for full Social Security, or whether there would be some kind of administrative position for him in athletics..fund raising, etc. Something similar to what Lehigh did with their wrestling coach Strobel, who knew his ability to coach was impacted due to his health issues, but still wanted to do 'do something' at Lehigh. He's now Assoc. Athletic Director in charge of various fund raising activities, and organizing a lot of alumni/athletic partnership functions. I see the 'pards doing something like that. Only question is next year or three more.

[carney2]

It would be nice, as some have indicated to have a "plan" out in the open. More than a few people (assistants, players, potential recruits) are affected by what's going on.

One more time, the football coach at Lafayette is judged on three things:

1. The graduation rate of his players.

2. Negative headlines (arrests, etc.) in the local newspapers.

3. His winning rate cannot be so high that it appears that the College has the wrong priorities and it becomes an embarrassment to the College mission.

You will note that this list includes a stipulation about not winning too much, but none about winning too little. Frank is safe on all three counts.

[carney2]

Update:

Frank Tavani is still the head football coach at Lafayette.

To the best of anyone's knowledge all of his assistants are still in place. Maine, however, has supposedly narrowed its search for Jack Cosgrove's successor to 4 finalists, all of whom have either played or coached at the university. Could Lafayette OC Mickey Fein be one of them? He was a QB in Orono back in the 90s. If so, it would present a real conundrum for Lafayette fans. Some would love to see a new OC running the offense. On the other hand, you really have to ask what manner of candidates would desire to be part of six (soon to be seven) consecutive losing seasons, a 1-10 team, and work under a coach who many view as a lame duck.

In the meantime recruiting continues with all assistants on the road and the head coach showing up at his Bourger Varsity House office whenever the mood hits him. The usual suspects on the Lafayette board are predicting it will be yet another "great class."

And, of course, we all note that if a meeting of coach, AD and administrators did in fact take place, it is the usual Lafayette deep, dark secret.

[Pard4Life]

Lighting a candle for Mickey Fein getting the Maine job. He deserves the opportunity.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

How about Moorhead? Is he really one up for the PSU OC gig?

[carney2]

It should come as no surprise but (so far) no one poaches coaches from a 1-10 program.

[Pards Rule]

Just say yes to Shoop from Purdue! Lafayette HC in the wings??

[Pard4Life]

It should come as no surprise but (so far) no one poaches coaches from a 1-10 program.

Word on the Lafayette board is that it's between Mickey and the current interim coach for the Maine job. Outside source cited, not the ramblings of a poster taken as fact.

[LeopardBall10]

Word on the Lafayette board is that it's between Mickey and the current interim coach for the Maine job. Outside source cited, not the ramblings of a poster taken as fact.

True, but it is interesting to me that no one else has picked up on that outside source. However I did see a few pictures on social media with Mickey and his wife in what appeared to be Maine recently.

[carney2]

Word on the Lafayette board is that it's between Mickey and the current interim coach for the Maine job. Outside source cited, not the ramblings of a poster taken as fact.

Absolutely astounding. You look at Fein's resume and ask who would hire him? But then, you look at the dots on the map that signify the hot beds of college football and you won't find one of those dots on Orono, ME. In fact, you won't find any dots on Orono, Me. Do you have any idea where it is?!!! Anyway, I will believe this only when it happens.

[carney2]

Maine did not hire Mickey Fein as its head coach. Therefore, situation effed up and unchanged in Easton. The same guys doing the same things and expecting different results. Checkbooks being justifiably closed all over Pard Nation.

[KPSUL]

[QUOTE=carney2;2307787]Maine did not hire Mickey Fein as its head coach. Therefore, situation effed up and unchanged in Easton. The same guys doing the same things and expecting different results. Checkbooks being justifiably closed all over Pard Nation.[/Qhttps://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10208488912048249&set=a.1191017983531.2028893.1470816273&type=QUOTE]

I understand Mickey didn't get along with the Maine mascot.

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=22030&stc=1

[CFBfan]

I understand Mickey didn't get along with the Maine mascot.

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=22030&stc=1[/QUOTE]

that's great!
carney I don't think mickey staying or leaving matters much if you still have frank!
if mickey left/leaves who is going to come there knowing the situation??? likely someone worse/inexperienced
what LC football needs is a good enema!

[LeopardBall10]

You do have to think that Mickey was in the conversation though. That has to be a huge blow to his ego. Being passed up by your Alma Mater by a kid who probably coached with the Lafayette Limited Earnings guys at Springfield.

[ngineer]

I understand Mickey didn't get along with the Maine mascot.

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=22030&stc=1

that's great!
carney I don't think mickey staying or leaving matters much if you still have frank!
if mickey left/leaves who is going to come there knowing the situation??? likely someone worse/inexperienced
what LC football needs is a good enema![/QUOTE]

That's the Feinest picture I have ever seen. I can't bear to watch.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

You do have to think that Mickey was in the conversation though. That has to be a huge blow to his ego. Being passed up by your Alma Mater by a kid who probably coached with the Lafayette Limited Earnings guys at Springfield.

I'm not sure sure it's an ego thing. The new guy's salary is shockingly tiny.

[CFBfan]

I'm not sure sure it's an ego thing. The new guy's salary is shockingly tiny.

likely due to him being a very young coach with no prior experience. a good oppty for him to build his resume and not a big financial hit if ME has to dump him

[Andy]

"Shockingly tiny" salary? Comparable to most PL HC jobs, no, or more? $150,000 plus Coach H's wife is a middle school teacher, so about $200k family income in Orono, ME. Sounds like a nice life to me.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

"Shockingly tiny" salary? Comparable to most PL HC jobs, no, or more? $150,000 plus Coach H's wife is a middle school teacher, so about $200k family income in Orono, ME. Sounds like a nice life to me.

Butch Jones, HC at Tennessee: $4.1 million/year

Jackson State (FCS): Sources tell FootballScoop Tony Hughes’ agreement is three years, beginning at $265,000 per year. At Mississippi State Hughes made $400,000 last year per USA Today’s data.

FBS head coaches, FBS coordinators, and many FCS coaches have significantly higher salaries than the new guy at Maine. I'm not saying that it's a bad life at that salary at all. However, Fein may have been making a lateral move salary-wise.

[CFBfan]

"Shockingly tiny" salary? Comparable to most PL HC jobs, no, or more? $150,000 plus Coach H's wife is a middle school teacher, so about $200k family income in Orono, ME. Sounds like a nice life to me.

there are high school HC's making that and more, cost of living shouldn't really be a factor (although certainly it helps that he is not taking the Fordham opening at that salary!)

[carney2]

carney I don't think mickey staying or leaving matters much if you still have frank!

what LC football needs is a good enema!

As I've said before, Frank is not even the tip of the iceberg at Lafayette. His departure is an absolute must before anything positive can happen, but it is not the solution to the problems. You would most likely get a short term (5 years or so) uptick with new leadership, attitudes and enthusiasm, but in the end the College's systemic rot would still be in place. We would be back at the same place without the enema you mention. And, frankly, I have a difficult time seeing even a mild Ex-Lax with the forces of constipation firmly entrenched.

[LeopardBall10]

However, Fein may have been making a lateral move salary-wise.

1. I don't think that is even close. Color me shocked if Mickey is making 6 figures. Lafayette has a horrendous reputation for low coaching wages.

2. Maine is paying that because they can. If they hired a better coach they would have paid more. I doubt they went into the search saying that the budget for the hire was $150,000

[carney2]

1. I don't think that is even close. Color me shocked if Mickey is making 6 figures. Lafayette has a horrendous reputation for low coaching wages.

You are absolutely correct. The basketball, field hockey, soccer, etc. assistants are being paid with grocery coupons and Green Stamps (remember them?). But, I believe that both football coordinators and maybe the offensive line coach are receiving something approaching a competitive living wage.

[Pard4Life]

Maine did not hire Mickey Fein as its head coach.

There is no Santa Claus.

For some reason I think the coordinators at LC make in the mid $70k range.

[Andy]

Butch Jones, HC at Tennessee: $4.1 million/year

Jackson State (FCS): Sources tell FootballScoop Tony Hughes’ agreement is three years, beginning at $265,000 per year. At Mississippi State Hughes made $400,000 last year per USA Today’s data.

FBS head coaches, FBS coordinators, and many FCS coaches have significantly higher salaries than the new guy at Maine. I'm not saying that it's a bad life at that salary at all. However, Fein may have been making a lateral move salary-wise.

Come on, LFN, comparing Tennessee to the PL? The coordinators at Maine make $50k, comparable I'd bet to what Fein makes at LC. Frank has named "associate head coach"es in the past, a position that undoubtedly gives a boost up from the coordinator salary, but nothing crazy. Aren't head coach salaries researchable? Or is that only for top 10 salaries at the college via the public tax forms? IDK

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Come on, LFN, comparing Tennessee to the PL? The coordinators at Maine make $50k, comparable I'd bet to what Fein makes at LC. Frank has named "associate head coach"es in the past, a position that undoubtedly gives a boost up from the coordinator salary, but nothing crazy. Aren't head coach salaries researchable? Or is that only for top 10 salaries at the college via the public tax forms? IDK

I think they're researchable from EADA forms and for public institutions, if you know where to look.

Point was about mentioning Butch Davis is that his HC salary is more than 20x of what the new guy at Maine is making, Hughes made $400k as an assistant at Mississippi State (more than 2x what he will make at Maine), and Hughes will make $265k at Jackson State (more than 1.5x).

[Andy]

I've read recently that former LC DC John Loose makes $151k at Army. Tom Massela also $150k, I forget where he's at. Assistants, of course.

This from a Furman football board:

CAA head football coach salaries (fiscal year 2009)

1. K.C. Keeler, Delaware, $310,662

2. Mickey Matthews, James Madison, $248,000

3. Sean McDonnell, New Hampshire, $183,000

4. Jimmye Laycock, William & Mary, $179,400

5. Rob Ambrose, Towson, $169,200

6. Jack Cosgrove, Maine, $155,000

[CFBfan]

I've read recently that former LC DC John Loose makes $151k at Army. Tom Massela also $150k, I forget where he's at. Assistants, of course.

This from a Furman football board:

CAA head football coach salaries (fiscal year 2009)

1. K.C. Keeler, Delaware, $310,662

2. Mickey Matthews, James Madison, $248,000

3. Sean McDonnell, New Hampshire, $183,000

4. Jimmye Laycock, William & Mary, $179,400

5. Rob Ambrose, Towson, $169,200

6. Jack Cosgrove, Maine, $155,000

I believe the HC's pull in a decent buck from their off season camps as well

[LeopardBall10]

I've read recently that former LC DC John Loose makes $151k at Army. Tom Massela also $150k, I forget where he's at. Assistants, of course.

This from a Furman football board:

CAA head football coach salaries (fiscal year 2009)

1. K.C. Keeler, Delaware, $310,662

2. Mickey Matthews, James Madison, $248,000

3. Sean McDonnell, New Hampshire, $183,000

4. Jimmye Laycock, William & Mary, $179,400

5. Rob Ambrose, Towson, $169,200

6. Jack Cosgrove, Maine, $155,000

Yeah, since 2009 these numbers are all pretty significantly up. But the guess that a Lafayette Coordinator is around mid to high 70s is about spot on. You don't even want to know what the full-time DL or DBs coach makes let alone the "Limited Earnings" guys who round out the staff. On W-2 income Frank doesn't make much more than the new guy at Maine, but over the years he has gained some perks like the college covering housing, cell phone, cars, etc.

Loose is making $151,000 before any bonuses according to USA Today and that was a significant pay increase, which is why he is ok living away from his family.


I believe the HC's pull in a decent buck from their off season camps as well
Depends on the coach and the camp. At Lafayette Frank doesn't take a cut, but that is because he doesn't do anything to set it up or run it. Currently that is Fein. And the rest of the staff all gets a cut as well. And I can't think you are going to get a great turnout for a camp in Orono, Maine.

[CFBfan]

Depends on the coach and the camp. At Lafayette Frank doesn't take a cut, but that is because he doesn't do anything to set it up or run it. Currently that is Fein. And the rest of the staff all gets a cut as well. And I can't think you are going to get a great turnout for a camp in Orono, Maine.[/QUOTE

probably not but was looking at all the coaches Andy listed who would draw attendance

[KPSUL]

Depends on the coach and the camp. At Lafayette Frank doesn't take a cut, but that is because he doesn't do anything to set it up or run it. Currently that is Fein. And the rest of the staff all gets a cut as well. And I can't think you are going to get a great turnout for a camp in Orono, Maine.[/QUOTE

probably not but was looking at all the coaches Andy listed who would draw attendance

The number a saw for Sean McDonnell's 2014 Salary was $255,000. Withers at JMU $325,000 to $350,000.

[Pards Rule]

Well Fein would have stepped up to snap up the $150K in Orono at his alma mater rather than the $75K or so he gets in Easton, PA. Whoever posted about the ego blow losing out to a 29 year old was spot on. Loved to have sit in on that interview with Mickey. "So, whats the problem there at Lafayette, Mickey"