The Problem With Lafayette Football? Too Tough Of A Schedule

[superman7515]

http://www.lehighvalleylive.com/lafayette/index.ssf/2015/10/lafayette_should_dial_back_tou.html


Harvard (http://stats.lehighvalleylive.com/cfb/teamstats.asp?team=0131&report=teamhome) football coach Tim Murphy may have put his finger on one of Lafayette's (http://www.lehighvalleylive.com/lafayette/)major ailments when he talked about what he saw in the Leopards during Tuesday's weekly Lafayette media luncheon.

"I see a very talented team ... that has faced a very challenging schedule and has not had a chance to develop much confidence," Murphy said via conference call. "Lafayette has good personnel but there's a combination of factors that has not allowed it develop."


The biblical siege of injuries the Leopards are suffering is surely on one of those factors, but there's not much Lafayette can do about that.


The schedule, though, the Leopards do control.


And control it they should.


Lafayette needs to lighten up its non-conference scheduling...

[centennial]

No just no. Schedule good OOC so you can get better. Ivy- Schedule easy games, and stop scheduling them if they get too good.

[Professor Chaos]

Harvard's coach would know all about playing a schedule that gives his team "a chance to develop confidence".

[RichH2]

Hindsight . If Pards knew prior to this year that their roster would be down to less than 50 uninjured players that might have been helpful. Going foward Pards need to improve the S & C program not schedule down.

[carney2]

Yeah, there ya go, "dumb down" your standards so that your mediocre product somehow looks better.

How about a Plan B:

Recruit better.

Coach better.

Have a sense of pride and actually care about what happens on Saturdays in the fall and how it reflects on the institution.*

*NOT a crack about the players or coaches who obviously care. The rest of that bunch (Board of Trustees, administration, faculty) needs to get in or get out.

[Professor Chaos]

What's even more comical about this is Lafayette's schedule isn't even that tough. Massey rates it as the 64th toughest schedule in the FCS so far this year. Go look at UNI or Cal Poly if you want to see a tough schedule.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

What's even more comical about this is Lafayette's schedule isn't even that tough. Massey rates it as the 64th toughest schedule in the FCS so far this year. Go look at UNI or Cal Poly if you want to see a tough schedule.

I complete agree. It's a solid OOC schedule but not insanely tough. W&M and Harvard are probably both Top 20'ish teams imo. Princeton is fringe Top 25. Delaware and Wagner are both well below average. IMO, it's basically the perfect schedule if you aspire to be a quality team/program....

[heath]

Are they suppose to schedule Moravian and Mulhenbeurg instead of Ivies. Hell,we were worried about GU the past few years . Maybe Laffy should consider the Centennial movexconfusedx

[Go...gate]

No just no. Schedule good OOC so you can get better. Ivy- Schedule easy games, and stop scheduling them if they get too good.

Bingo!!

- - - Updated - - -


Yeah, there ya go, "dumb down" your standards so that your mediocre product somehow looks better.

How about a Plan B:

Recruit better.

Coach better.

Have a sense of pride and actually care about what happens on Saturdays in the fall and how it reflects on the institution.*

*NOT a crack about the players or coaches who obviously care. The rest of that bunch (Board of Trustees, administration, faculty) needs to get in or get out.

Yes!!

[BucBisonAtLarge]

This quote revealed a bit more about Harvard than Lafayette.

Maul the Johnnies.

[aceinthehole]

It is an absurd comment from Murphy, especially considering that Harvard's non-conference schedule is Lafayette's conference slate.

[ngineer]

I agree that Murphy is wrong about the schedule. Injuries will happen regardless who you play. Heck some, like a lot of ACL's occur without any contact! I think LC's OOC was a good one this year, but not like Mount Everest. You need to 'schedule up' at least one game and several in your tier in order to get the true measure of your talent.

[Pard4Life]

Huck Farvard. Classless coach and a classles institution.

I don't buy the schedule issue. We are looking at brand names here: its perception. In 2005 our OOC was good Richmond, good Harvard, bad Marist, good Princeton, and bad Columbia. This year it was good WM, a bad Delaware team, bad Wagner, good Princeton, good Harvard.

We have played a schedule like this before.

[Pards Rule]

I complete agree. It's a solid OOC schedule but not insanely tough. W&M and Harvard are probably both Top 20'ish teams imo. Princeton is fringe Top 25. Delaware and Wagner are both well below average. IMO, it's basically the perfect schedule if you aspire to be a quality team/program....

Agreed!! This is an anomaly season

[Pards Rule]

Wow!! I get to attend the first game against Central Connecticut played since Sept 12, 1981, Bill Russo's first game as Lafayette coach and a 51-0 win too.

[Mattymc727]

A little insight into the fantasy world that Harvard lives in. He must think the rest of the FCS doesnt exist.

[DFW HOYA]

From the article: "This is insane. Imagine Penn State's four non-league games being Alabama, Georgia Tech, Stanford, and at Wake Forest. Nobody schedules like that. Or should."

Only in the Express-Times would a comparison be made with these four schools to a 2016 schedule which includes Army, Wagner, Villanova, and Harvard.

What if Lafayette were playing Alabama? Charleston Southern is, on Nov. 14.

[Bisonator]

Maybe they should get the College of Faith on the schedule?xlolx

[hktribefan]

The only thing Harvard has to play for is a league title, so their OOC schedule literally means nothing. Lafayette is playing in a league that seldom has more than one playoff bid. They need to play (and beat or be competitive) against teams from other conferences to get a serious look for an at-large if they stumble during their league play.

[Pards Rule]

The only thing Harvard has to play for is a league title, so their OOC schedule literally means nothing. Lafayette is playing in a league that seldom has more than one playoff bid. They need to play (and beat or be competitive) against teams from other conferences to get a serious look for an at-large if they stumble during their league play.

Agreed! We just have to get better.

[Franks Tanks]

Brad Wilson is a really smart guy, and a much better reporter than the Express-Times deserves, but he is shilling in this article.


This is just another excuse, and a really poor one. The fact is that there are few very FCS teams in the nation that Lafayette would be able to beat right now. We would've had to schedule tams like Howard and Davidson to get wins this year. The likes of Columbia and Marist would beat us by several TD's right now. Playing a "tough" schedule had nothing to do wit that fact that Georgetown crushed the Leopards.

[AmsterBison]

I'm assuming Yoda wrote that article and, as he is very wise, agree I must.



The schedule, though, the Leopards do control.


And control it they should.

[Pard4Life]

Tough schedule? We got our ass*s beat by a non-schollie team.

Bottom line: We. Suck. Stop making excuses.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I'm assuming Yoda wrote that article and, as he is very wise, agree I must.

http://cdn.meme.am/instances2/500x/2449156.jpg

[aceinthehole]

Wow!! I get to attend the first game against Central Connecticut played since Sept 12, 1981, Bill Russo's first game as Lafayette coach and a 51-0 win too.

Nice! CCSU is looking to go 2-1 vs. the mighty Leopards and earn their first win vs. Lafayette in New Britain next year.

Sep. 13, 1980 - CCSU 14, Lafayette 3 (Easton, Pa.)

[carney2]

THE "problem with Lafayette football" is a total lack of institutional support. The rest of this and other discussions is/are fringe issues. Cure the main problem (improbable, if not impossible) and the rest simply disappear.

[Pard4Life]

http://cdn.meme.am/instances2/500x/2449156.jpg

I wouldn't talk bird brain. CCSU... Penn... Bucknell... I'm impressed!

[LUHawker]

I think LC's schedule over the recent past and near future is very attractive. Well-balanced with interesting teams. The schedule does have some challenging teams, but that is not LC's problem. I hope Lafayette continues to schedule well, along with the rest of the league.

[ngineer]

THE "problem with Lafayette football" is a total lack of institutional support. The rest of this and other discussions is/are fringe issues. Cure the main problem (improbable, if not impossible) and the rest simply disappear.

I think the 'pards will need to "lose their faculties" for the mindset to change. (;-)

[carney2]

The problem at Lafayette has been described as systemic. It wears down and drains coaches. Cases in point:

Bill Russo arrived in 1981 full of pi$$ and vinegar. His stated goal was to create a program to challenge Delaware. Within a few years his goal became an uninspiring "winning season," as if 6-5 was the best that could be done. I could never hope to find a quote after all these years, but I believe he actually said that at one point. Finally in the 90s he gave up completely and just phoned it in to keep the pay checks coming.

Frank Tavani built a pretty respectable program through much of the first decade of this century. In 2008 the administration pulled the rug out from under him by taking away a large portion of his equivalencies due to "budgetary problems." Since then the program's been in the toilet. Now, Frank has some health issues and that is certainly a factor, but - and no pun intended - there are increasing signs that his heart just isn't in it anymore. Perhaps things like no increases in the football budget since something like 2007; zero dollars allotted to athletics from that windfall 150th at Yankee Stadium; and a peek at the organization chart where D-1 athletics are treated like intramurals and the AD reports to a woman who, at one point in her career, was in charge of assigning dorm rooms; are just some of the straws on this camel's back.

[DFW HOYA]

How much sooner before the "Problem With Lehigh Football" post appears? Is there a concern growing that these schools may no longer be at the top of the food chain in the scholarship era?

The prospect of an uphill climb in the post-Tavani and post-Coen eras is certainly there if Joe Moorhead can continue to land I-A transfers at Fordham and if Holy Cross picks up a bigger name hire if they give up on Gilmore.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

How much sooner before the "Problem With Lehigh Football" post appears? Is there a concern growing that these schools may no longer be at the top of the food chain in the scholarship era?

The prospect of an uphill climb in the post-Tavani and post-Coen eras is certainly there if Joe Moorhead can continue to land I-A transfers at Fordham and if Holy Cross picks up a bigger name hire if they give up on Gilmore.

Lafayette's and Lehigh's challenges are different.

Unlike Lafayette, Lehigh has seen winning records and FCS playoff wins during the last five years. Lehigh is only three years removed from a 10-1 season. 10-1! Only a playoff committee screw job kept Lehigh out of the playoffs that year.

Lafayette folks will be quick to point out, rightfully, that they also made the playoffs and additionally have one more Patriot League title than Lehigh over the past three years.

Lafayette's concern is that winning the PL championship on (let's face it) a fluky year isn't enough anymore: they want sustained success, like back in 2004-2005 when they went 8-3 and made the playoffs twice. They'd like to have a sustained run of that sort of success, success they feel will come with X <-- insert your possible cure here, a lighter schedule, more institutional support, a new head coach.

Lehigh's concern is that they were on once top of the world. They were a Top 25 team, before Moorhead came to town and put all the pieces together and made a juggernaut. But they fell back hard last year, going 3-8 at a place where 3-8 is unfathomable with all the fans (including me). People forget that even in 2013 they were seriously considered for an at-large spot and might have gotten it had Lafayette not beaten them 50-28. Success wasn't that long ago, especially success as defined by this latest Lafayette critique.

Some Lehigh fans are ornery even during the best of times - the boo birds are never far away, waiting for the moment Lehigh struggles, or perhaps doesn't win as elegantly as they could, and foretell doom. Lehigh fans have high expectations, and are quick to say when they're not satisfied.

But you cannot say Joe Sterrett doesn't care or doesn't follow the football team. He is at every game. I see him. He is at the press conferences. I see him. The players know he was a former football player and has bled for the program. There shouldn't ever be any doubt that Joe wants a successful football program, meaning a team which beats Lafayette most of the time, wins Patriot League championships, and beats teams like Towson and UNI in the FCS playoffs.

It still feels too early to crown Fordham as the be-all and end-all winner of the scholarship era, especially because zero Patriot League schools are (still) currently competing with "scholarship" classes. Just looking at Lehigh, I feel there's a great amount of promise in this past freshman class, and those freshman have made a huge difference already. Lehigh is a very young team that will return most of the guys playing this season. Fans tend to forget that because they expect "9-2 and a deep playoff run" every other year, but few FCS teams can boast year-in and year-out success. Teams like UNH are rare because it's so difficult to do every year.

[RichH2]

On point LFN. For LU fans,the major issues are not with the AD,Admissions or.the academic bureaucracy. Ours is essentially disappointed expectations. Cycles are a fact of life but 3-8 seasons are not,at least over the last 30years.:) .

[Ivytalk]

Lafayette's and Lehigh's challenges are different.

Unlike Lafayette, Lehigh has seen winning records and FCS playoff wins during the last five years. Lehigh is only three years removed from a 10-1 season. 10-1! Only a playoff committee screw job kept Lehigh out of the playoffs that year.

Lafayette folks will be quick to point out, rightfully, that they also made the playoffs and additionally have one more Patriot League title than Lehigh over the past three years.

Lafayette's concern is that winning the PL championship on (let's face it) a fluky year isn't enough anymore: they want sustained success, like back in 2004-2005 when they went 8-3 and made the playoffs twice. They'd like to have a sustained run of that sort of success, success they feel will come with X <-- insert your possible cure here, a lighter schedule, more institutional support, a new head coach.

Lehigh's concern is that they were on once top of the world. They were a Top 25 team, before Moorhead came to town and put all the pieces together and made a juggernaut. But they fell back hard last year, going 3-8 at a place where 3-8 is unfathomable with all the fans (including me). People forget that even in 2013 they were seriously considered for an at-large spot and might have gotten it had Lafayette not beaten them 50-28. Success wasn't that long ago, especially success as defined by this latest Lafayette critique.

Some Lehigh fans are ornery even during the best of times - the boo birds are never far away, waiting for the moment Lehigh struggles, or perhaps doesn't win as elegantly as they could, and foretell doom. Lehigh fans have high expectations, and are quick to say when they're not satisfied.

But you cannot say Joe Sterrett doesn't care or doesn't follow the football team. He is at every game. I see him. He is at the press conferences. I see him. The players know he was a former football player and has bled for the program. There shouldn't ever be any doubt that Joe wants a successful football program, meaning a team which beats Lafayette most of the time, wins Patriot League championships, and beats teams like Towson and UNI in the FCS playoffs.

It still feels too early to crown Fordham as the be-all and end-all winner of the scholarship era, especially because zero Patriot League schools are (still) currently competing with "scholarship" classes. Just looking at Lehigh, I feel there's a great amount of promise in this past freshman class, and those freshman have made a huge difference already. Lehigh is a very young team that will return most of the guys playing this season. Fans tend to forget that because they expect "9-2 and a deep playoff run" every other year, but few FCS teams can boast year-in and year-out success. Teams like UNH are rare because it's so difficult to do every year.
Lehigh fans strike me as Philadelphia Eagle fans in terms of intensity and reaction to adversity. Lafayette fans are a bit more cerebral and sardonic. Just like carney2!

[carney2]

Lehigh fans strike me as Philadelphia Eagle fans in terms of intensity and reaction to adversity. Lafayette fans are a bit more cerebral and sardonic. Just like carney2!

Actually, Vern, THE END came when that football teetered on the roof of Bourger Varsity House and wouldn't come down. It was a message from the gods: "No more football will be played here." xsmiley_wix

[carney2]

How much sooner before the "Problem With Lehigh Football" post appears? Is there a concern growing that these schools may no longer be at the top of the food chain in the scholarship era?

The prospect of an uphill climb in the post-Tavani and post-Coen eras is certainly there if Joe Moorhead can continue to land I-A transfers at Fordham and if Holy Cross picks up a bigger name hire if they give up on Gilmore.

LAFAYETTE - "Systemic" problems are the toughest to resolve, and there are no quick fixes.

LEHIGH - As LFN and others point out, there is a culture of success. The pendulum has swung pretty violently, but the attitudes and resources are there for a fairly quick turnaround.

HOLY CROSS - I'm not close enough to the situation to talk intelligently, but the Crossers seem to have a situation that is about as close to Lafayette's as there is in the Patriot League. Has institutional neglect crossed the line into "systemic?" I don't know, but I doubt if replacing Gilmore will have more than short term consequences without more basic changes.

FORDHAM - The questions are obvious: 1. Has this program gone as far as Moorhead can take it? 2. Can success survive a Moorhead departure?

[Neighbor2]

I'm going to say, for me and most other unhappy Lehigh fans, the loss at Yankee Stadium is unforgivable. To witness a team so unprepared at such a moment, then to 'enjoy' continuing struggles so far this year under the same staff is hard to take. I know, I know, the struggles this season run deeper than any staff should be expected to overcome. But, a new season didn't erase the sting of the Yankee Stadium flop as most were hoping it would. A one loss (to James Madison) Lehigh team at this point would have.

The Bucknell performance in the second half provided hope for the balance of the year. Beating Fordham will be huge. Still nervous about poor tackling, however. Yes, I think football expectations at Lehigh are higher than at Lafayette. I'd say, most Lehigh fans expect to regularly witness seasons of at least 8 wins.

[BucBisonAtLarge]

Sigh... The angst must be a visible dark scum floating down the Lehigh...

[Sader87]

LAFAYETTE - "Systemic" problems are the toughest to resolve, and there are no quick fixes.

LEHIGH - As LFN and others point out, there is a culture of success. The pendulum has swung pretty violently, but the attitudes and resources are there for a fairly quick turnaround.

HOLY CROSS - I'm not close enough to the situation to talk intelligently, but the Crossers seem to have a situation that is about as close to Lafayette's as there is in the Patriot League. Has institutional neglect crossed the line into "systemic?" I don't know, but I doubt if replacing Gilmore will have more than short term consequences without more basic changes.

FORDHAM - The questions are obvious: 1. Has this program gone as far as Moorhead can take it? 2. Can success survive a Moorhead departure?

The problems were/are systemic at HC but that is (hopefully) changing.

Holy Cross football just nevah transitioned well into non-scholarship football and for the most part floundered for most of the 1992-2012 PL non-scholarship era. With the return of scholarships and probably more importantly, a new President and a new AD that seem to care about athletics...there is at the very least hope once again on Mt St James.

[RichH2]

Sigh... The angst must be a visible dark scum floating down the Lehigh...
:):)
In full bloom in the Valley,no doubt. As carney noted Lehigh may turn around a bit quicker than Lafayette but the angst will be palpable for a while yet. Pards have deeper issues but getting more of their starters back will get them off the hopeless list. Could surprise a couple,hopefully not us.

[carney2]

most Lehigh fans expect to regularly witness seasons of at least 8 wins.

There would not be enough adult beverages in Easton ... no, Northampton County ... no, Eastern PA and western NJ to serve the Lafayette alumni and fans if the Pards ever recorded 8 (or more) wins. It has happened exactly 5 times since WWII. It is the impossible dream, the unclimbable mountain, the ... Well, you get the point.

[Ivytalk]

The problems were/are systemic at HC but that is (hopefully) changing.

Holy Cross football just nevah transitioned well into non-scholarship football and for the most part floundered for most of the 1992-2012 PL non-scholarship era. With the return of scholarships and probably more importantly, a new President and a new AD that seem to care about athletics...there is at the very least hope once again on Mt St James.

At a time of diminished expectations in Woostah, shouldn't it be re-named Mt. St. James the Less?:)

Bit of Catholic humor there...

[Lehigh Football Nation]

There would not be enough adult beverages in Easton ... no, Northampton County ... no, Eastern PA and western NJ to serve the Lafayette alumni and fans if the Pards ever recorded 8 (or more) wins. It has happened exactly 5 times since WWII. It is the impossible dream, the unclimbable mountain, the ... Well, you get the point.

In 2004 and 2005 it happened in consecutive years.

[Sader87]

At a time of diminished expectations in Woostah, shouldn't it be re-named Mt. St. James the Less?:)

Bit of Episcopalan humor there...

FIFY xdrunkyx

[carney2]

In 2004 and 2005 it happened in consecutive years.

Heady times indeed. We thought our ship had arrived. But, alas, ...

[Franks Tanks]

There would not be enough adult beverages in Easton ... no, Northampton County ... no, Eastern PA and western NJ to serve the Lafayette alumni and fans if the Pards ever recorded 8 (or more) wins. It has happened exactly 5 times since WWII. It is the impossible dream, the unclimbable mountain, the ... Well, you get the point.

We've actually had 6 seasons of 8 wins since 1981

81, 88, 92, 04, 05 and 09 or roughly 17% of seasons since 1981. Not sure it really makes sense to go back before the Russo era as that was ancient history, and teams only played 9 games per year in many cases back then.

I believe Carney is being overly dramatic, but we do need a fresh start if we expect to improve.

[melloware13]

If Lafayette wants to lighten up future OOC schedules and keep games local, here's my suggested opponents. Cheyney, Millersville, Misericordia, Wagner, Delaware.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

For fun, I looked at some old Lehigh schedules when they were in the doldrums in the 1920s and 1930s. Might I suggest:

Moravian
Muhlenberg
Ursinus
Gettysburg
Widener
Johns Hopkins

I'd suggest Lafayette's sister college, Swarthmore, but they killed football back in 2000. The death of the Garnet Tide football squad was terrible, perhaps just as terrible as the loss of football at BU.

http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/story?id=100115&page=1

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

ESPN was accidently using Lafayette College's logo instead of UL-Lafayette's during the Cajun's game against Arky State tonight. :D

Perhaps the 'Pards should try their luck in the Sun Belt....

[Pard4Life]

We've actually had 6 seasons of 8 wins since 1981

81, 88, 92, 04, 05 and 09 or roughly 17% of seasons since 1981. Not sure it really makes sense to go back before the Russo era as that was ancient history, and teams only played 9 games per year in many cases back then.

I believe Carney is being overly dramatic, but we do need a fresh start if we expect to improve.

We last had double-digit wins in '99... 1899...

[Pard4Life]

Heady times indeed. We thought our ship had arrived. But, alas, ...

We had 10 wins in 2009... but our kicker missed PATs and we were hosed by the ref at HC and our coaches outsmarted themselves in 145. The Frankosaurus cost us the Liberty game.

[carney2]

We've actually had 6 seasons of 8 wins since 1981

81, 88, 92, 04, 05 and 09 or roughly 17% of seasons since 1981. Not sure it really makes sense to go back before the Russo era as that was ancient history, and teams only played 9 games per year in many cases back then.

I believe Carney is being overly dramatic, but we do need a fresh start if we expect to improve.

Oops, I left out 2009. My bad, but I really try to forget about that year. So much promise and then missed extra points @ HC and a no-show @ Lehigh.

A no-show vs. Lehigh!!!!! Tavani should have been shot right there on the 50 yard line and his corpse ground into the sod. No-shows are unforgivable, but against Lehigh they are a sin against nature. They should NEVER happen. Not to merely shrug and give his worn out "back to the drawing board" comments, our Frankosaurus produced another no-show against the Flush Puppies in 2011. That is not D-1 coaching.

[Franks Tanks]

Oops, I left out 2009. My bad, but I really try to forget about that year. So much promise and then missed extra points @ HC and a no-show @ Lehigh.

A no-show vs. Lehigh!!!!! Tavani should have been shot right there on the 50 yard line and his corpse ground into the sod. No-shows are unforgivable, but against Lehigh they are a sin against nature. They should NEVER happen. Not to merely shrug and give his worn out "back to the drawing board" comments, our Frankosaurus produced another no-show against the Flush Puppies in 2011. That is not D-1 coaching.

Agree that Frank really screwed the pooch in 2009. Not sure if it was his best team overall, but certainly his best offensive team. The loss to Holy Cross was a heartbreaker, but the loss to Lehigh was mostly attributed to his bone head play calls. His decisions to use trick plays, which failed, and pass up easy FG's lost that game. A win there would've given us a share of the league championship by the way. Still mad about that one.

[Fordham]

FORDHAM - The questions are obvious: 1. Has this program gone as far as Moorhead can take it? 2. Can success survive a Moorhead departure?

With the funding and full scholarships, there is no reason why we can't expect a competitive squad each year. That said, it will be a huge hit when Moorhead leaves and we will definitely drop off. There hasn't been anything done structurally to upgrade the program since Moorhead got here. It's been all him imo.

Has he taken us as far as he can? If he stays I think the answer is a resounding no. Our squad this year is filled with first year starters on both sides of the ball, many of whom have 2 or 3 more years of eligibility. If we keep recruiting the way we have been (and we just got Ted Ginn's nephew committed this week), I think we will keep improving. The maddening thing is that our personnel on D have definitely improved and we looked like an improved unit in the first few games. The last two we really regressed, though. If Moorhead could ever find his complement on the defensive side, we could win it all imo.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Oops, I left out 2009. My bad, but I really try to forget about that year. So much promise and then missed extra points @ HC and a no-show @ Lehigh.

A no-show vs. Lehigh!!!!! Tavani should have been shot right there on the 50 yard line and his corpse ground into the sod. No-shows are unforgivable, but against Lehigh they are a sin against nature. They should NEVER happen. Not to merely shrug and give his worn out "back to the drawing board" comments, our Frankosaurus produced another no-show against the Flush Puppies in 2011. That is not D-1 coaching.

The 2011 season was not a no show against Lehigh. LU was simply that much better.

Was the 2009 game when the Lafayette punt returner tried to field the ball at his 2 yard line, ran laterally and fumbled?

[Franks Tanks]

The 2011 season was not a no show against Lehigh. LU was simply that much better.

Was the 2009 game when the Lafayette punt returner tried to field the ball at his 2 yard line, ran laterally and fumbled?

Yes. Also Frank called a halfback pass when we were inside the 20, and the he threw an interception. He did this despite having a QB who was having the best season is Lafayette football history. He also ran up the middle on 4th and short (we didn't get it), instead of taking an easy FG which would've give us the lead. So yes we gave Lehigh the ball at the 1, and ended two almost sure scoring drives on bonehead calls. The worst.

[kalm]

Hindsight . If Pards knew prior to this year that their roster would be down to less than 50 uninjured players that might have been helpful. Going foward Pards need to improve the S & C program not schedule down.

A stat I caught from last week's EWU-ISU game was that Eastern only had 56 kids suit up, 52 of which saw playing time by the 2nd quarter. The upside to injuries is you're creating depth.

[Pards Rule]

Agree that Frank really screwed the pooch in 2009. Not sure if it was his best team overall, but certainly his best offensive team. The loss to Holy Cross was a heartbreaker, but the loss to Lehigh was mostly attributed to his bone head play calls. His decisions to use trick plays, which failed, and pass up easy FG's lost that game. A win there would've given us a share of the league championship by the way. Still mad about that one.


And Jerome Rudolph - in what would turn out to be his last game - is still wide open in the end zone waiting for the winning TD pass from Rob Curley in OT, assuming PAT was good which it wasn't for Lehigh on their successful TD OT drive. That PAT hit the upright giving Lehigh a 6 point lead.

[Pards Rule]

Yes. Also Frank called a halfback pass when we were inside the 20, and the he threw an interception. He did this despite having a QB who was having the best season is Lafayette football history. He also ran up the middle on 4th and short (we didn't get it), instead of taking an easy FG which would've give us the lead. So yes we gave Lehigh the ball at the 1, and ended two almost sure scoring drives on bonehead calls. The worst.


Yeah, I remember that pass to the TE (who was it?) and the interception. When he got it I was thinking great call cause he had 10 yards open in front of him and I thought he was going to run!

[Pards Rule]

The 2011 season was not a no show against Lehigh. LU was simply that much better.

Was the 2009 game when the Lafayette punt returner tried to field the ball at his 2 yard line, ran laterally and fumbled?

Yes but it was even better Lehigh TU - he fielded it and 2 and circled back into the end zone and didn't change carrying hand so the Lehigh defender knocked it out and it was recovered in end zone for a TD. Thank one Nathan Padilla.

[Engineer86]

No show in 2009??? You mean game number 145 at Lehigh right? Ok, make up for it the next game (ok not 147), played at Lehigh! There will never be another chance to fix theno show in 150 at Yankee Stadium. That is uncomparably inexcusable!

[Sader87]

Lafayette is awful right now....end.

[Pards Rule]

Lafayette is awful right now....end.

Correct...Im just hoping to get 2nd victory the Saturday before Thanksgiving and call it a dismal year, fraught with injuries and incompetence.

[ngineer]

I am seriously concerned about #151. I know first hand how the 'pards are going to be feeling and that game will have them coming out like Kamikazes. Some of their players will be back by then, as well, plus I think they get a bye week before us. Ironically, I heard we have a bye week next year before #152. I don't recall that ever happening before.

[carney2]

I am seriously concerned about #151. I know first hand how the 'pards are going to be feeling and that game will have them coming out like Kamikazes. Some of their players will be back by then, as well, plus I think they get a bye week before us. Ironically, I heard we have a bye week next year before #152. I don't recall that ever happening before.

I know better, but this post makes you sound like a casual observer who has no idea what's going on. Now, take a deep breath after a long draught of bourbon and repeat after me:

Lafayette is not going to win a game.
Lafayette is not going to be even mildly competitive in a game.
Lafayette is one of the absolute worst football teams in all of FCS.

OK, now another sip of bourbon. Are you feeling better? Are you at least borderline rational?

[Ivytalk]

I am seriously concerned about #151. I know first hand how the 'pards are going to be feeling and that game will have them coming out like Kamikazes. Some of their players will be back by then, as well, plus I think they get a bye week before us. Ironically, I heard we have a bye week next year before #152. I don't recall that ever happening before.
ng, you are the master of the sandbag!xsalutexxsmileyclapx

[Ivytalk]

I know better, but this post makes you sound like a casual observer who has no idea what's going on. Now, take a deep breath after a long draught of bourbon and repeat after me:

Lafayette is not going to win a game.
Lafayette is not going to be even mildly competitive in a game.
Lafayette is one of the absolute worst football teams in all of FCS.

OK, now another sip of bourbon. Are you feeling better? Are you at least borderline rational?
Dr. carney2 is in da house!

That will be five cents, please!

[Andy]

Just thought I'd mention that there is no PL team that LC hasn't beaten over the last 2 seasons while going 8-4 in the league and 5-1 in the championship 2013 season. Lafayette has beaten Lehigh 50-28 and 27-7 the last 2 years. Somehow the thread is "The problem with Lafayette."

Surely there is a lack of institutional support at LC and we're far from alone.

Lafayette doesn't want a weaker schedule, the writer cited apparently does - next year Nova, Princeton, Delaware, Army.

If you follow PL football you'll recognize some names LC has been playing w/out - Staudle, Keller, Draeland James, Brockman, Wright, Smalley, Mercado. Mrazek broke something in Saturday's game, add him to the list. The sr TE Dipetro had knee surgery last week. LC wouldnt have beaten FU this year w/out the injuries, but we wouldn't have witnessed this circus.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Just thought I'd mention that there is no PL team that LC hasn't beaten over the last 2 seasons while going 8-4 in the league and 5-1 in the championship 2013 season. Lafayette has beaten Lehigh 50-28 and 27-7 the last 2 years. Somehow the thread is "The problem with Lafayette."

Surely there is a lack of institutional support at LC and we're far from alone.

Lafayette doesn't want a weaker schedule, the writer cited apparently does - next year Nova, Princeton, Delaware, Army.

If you follow PL football you'll recognize some names LC has been playing w/out - Staudle, Keller, Draeland James, Brockman, Wright, Smalley, Mercado. Mrazek broke something in Saturday's game, add him to the list. The sr TE Dipetro had knee surgery last week. LC wouldnt have beaten FU this year w/out the injuries, but we wouldn't have witnessed this circus.

Lafayette is about to conclude their 6TH losing season in a row with what will be their worst year in over a decade. It's time for Lafayette to move on and head in another direction. I know Lafayette won the title in 2013 but it still doesn't change the fact they finished 5-7 and took advantage of Nebrich's injury. If you truly believe that 2013 Lafayette had a better year and a better team than Fordham that year than I dunno. I think any outsider would say that Fordham had a MUCH better team and season. Making history by being the first playoff participant with a losing record is not something you want to hand your hat one.

The #150 win was nothing more than two bad team playing in front of a lot of people. Why some Lafayette fans felt it was watershed moment for the team is beyond me. That was by record the worst Lehigh team in over 20 years. The win in #149 was far more impressive given the circumstances. Lehigh at least entered the game with an 8-2 record and national ranking.

Lafayette can do better than what they currently have. Set the bar higher. Lafayette's overall success the last 25 years is so modest that expectations seem so low. I know the PL titles but some of those teams were not very good. Two losing seasons and a 6-5/6-6 team. You guys should be able to win 9 games more than once every 30 years and do a little damage in the playoffs.

[Andy]

Lafayette is about to conclude their 6TH losing season in a row with what will be their worst year in over a decade. It's time for Lafayette to move on and head in another direction. I know Lafayette won the title in 2013 but it still doesn't change the fact they finished 5-7 and took advantage of Nebrich's injury. If you truly believe that 2013 Lafayette had a better year and a better team than Fordham that year than I dunno. I think any outsider would say that Fordham had a MUCH better team and season. Making history by being the first playoff participant with a losing record is not something you want to hand your hat one..

We've been over this before, if you didn't like Lafayette (5-1) representing the PL you should have beaten them. Instead you got your butt kicked.

LC beat you with their 3rd string QB last year and beat Fordham with LC's 2nd stringer when Nebrich was also out.

Fordham wasn't PL eligible in 2013, LC would've gone to the playoffs even if they hadn't beaten the Rams.

You'll win this year and I'm sure, in future years, when reminiscing about the win your memory will serve you as well re LCs depleted ranks as it does re Nebrich's injury in 2013.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

We've been over this before, if you didn't like Lafayette (5-1) representing the PL you should have beaten them. Instead you got your butt kicked.

LC beat you with their 3rd string QB last year and beat Fordham with LC's 2nd stringer when Nebrich was also out.

Fordham wasn't PL eligible in 2013, LC would've gone to the playoffs even if they hadn't beaten the Rams.

That still doesn't change the fact that Lafayette was 5-6. That's not good. 5-7 is even worse. I don't get your reasoning. So what they beat Lehigh? That's only one game in 12. It was definitely more impressive than #150 but still doesn't change the fact you were a sub .500 team. Had Colgate beaten Lehigh the week before in Hamilton than the Raiders would have been in at 4-7. That wouldn't have been good either. Even worse for Lafayette...

[caribbeanhen]

I complete agree. It's a solid OOC schedule but not insanely tough. W&M and Harvard are probably both Top 20'ish teams imo. Princeton is fringe Top 25. Delaware and Wagner are both well below average. IMO, it's basically the perfect schedule if you aspire to be a quality team/program....
I wouldnt lump Delaware in with Wagner just not right

[Andy]

Happy birthday to our starting center, Kern, on his 18th yesterday. Unfortunately he didnt play, out with an ankle.

[RichH2]

Andy
No issue with Pard fans relishing Ws over us or PL titles. Stretches credulity to balance those vs 6 losing seasons.

[Andy]

I understand, rich. IMO the "over .500" stuff is relative and relatively meaningless for comparison. If we'd played Cornell and Marist we'd have been over .500, but the same team in terms of quality. The goal of all teams is to win their league title, obviously.

Maybe I was raised wrong or am just too old school, doesnt seem right, classy, whatever to criticize a team that one has lost to. Whatever...

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

I understand, rich. IMO the "over .500" stuff is relative and relatively meaningless for comparison. If we'd played Cornell and Marist we'd have been over .500, but the same team in terms of quality. The goal of all teams is to win their league title, obviously.

Maybe I was raised wrong or am just too old school, doesnt seem right, classy, whatever to criticize a team that one has lost to. Whatever...

Lafayette is the only Patriot League team that MY school has a winning record against historically. :p

My position is simple. I want the league to improve and become more relevant nationally. Lafayette recently has done nothing to help do that. I didn't go to Lehigh so while as a LU FAN I understand the importance of the rivalry I have no real ill will towards Lafayette. Lafayette is suppose to beat Lehigh and vice versa. The more balanced the rivalry is the healthier it is imo. I'm not in the well if Lehigh goes 4-7 and beats Lafayette than it's an ok year. No, the team still stunk.

I'm looking at this at a much different view point than I believe you realize.

[Pard4Life]

No show in 2009??? You mean game number 145 at Lehigh right? Ok, make up for it the next game (ok not 147), played at Lehigh! There will never be another chance to fix theno show in 150 at Yankee Stadium. That is uncomparably inexcusable!

I disagree 2009 was a no-show. We outcoached ourselves.

There is some debate about 2011 being a no-show. I saw what I saw... looked like a no-show.

- - - Updated - - -


I am seriously concerned about #151. I know first hand how the 'pards are going to be feeling and that game will have them coming out like Kamikazes. Some of their players will be back by then, as well, plus I think they get a bye week before us. Ironically, I heard we have a bye week next year before #152. I don't recall that ever happening before.

You really have no idea. Crusader11 learned the truth yesterday.

[Pard4Life]

Yes. Also Frank called a halfback pass when we were inside the 20, and the he threw an interception. He did this despite having a QB who was having the best season is Lafayette football history. He also ran up the middle on 4th and short (we didn't get it), instead of taking an easy FG which would've give us the lead. So yes we gave Lehigh the ball at the 1, and ended two almost sure scoring drives on bonehead calls. The worst.

OMG.. DONT get me started. He calls the SAME consecutive plays... FOUR TIMES... at the goal line in 2009.

AND then... in 2010... HE CALLS THE SAME PLAY AGAIN THREE STRAIGHT TIMES!! He learned his lesson though and settled for a FG on fourth down! However, had we scored in either case, we win or may have won.

It's on You Tube!

2009: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hdwYd3_pbc

2010: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h06_RCoM51o

[RichH2]

I understand, rich. IMO the "over .500" stuff is relative and relatively meaningless for comparison. If we'd played Cornell and Marist we'd have been over .500, but the same team in terms of quality. The goal of all teams is to win their league title, obviously.

Maybe I was raised wrong or am just too old school, doesnt seem right, classy, whatever to criticize a team that one has lost to. Whatever...
Andy
Not criticizing Lafayette nor their team. Actually feel for team and fans given the circumstances there. Just dont agree with your position. I cant see how one ring and 2 wins over us whitewashes 6 losing seasons. No matter how you phrase it or view it,a losing season is not a good thing. Losing seasons happen sometimes rebuilding,or injuries, but 6 in a row is not excusable . Explainable pefhaps by the overall lack of success of Pard athletics but that is a topic for another forum than here.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

I disagree 2009 was a no-show. We outcoached ourselves.

There is some debate about 2011 being a no-show. I saw what I saw... looked like a no-show.

- - - Updated - - -



You really have no idea. Crusader11 learned the truth yesterday.

What was going to be a "show" in 2011? Lehigh was MUCH better than Lafayette that year. Maybe the 'Pards score another FG? Lafayette never had a chance in 2011. Much like in '98, '00 and '01. Perhaps Tavani announces his retirement before game and the 'Pards put forth a '99 type performance? Lehigh rolled 7 or 8 opponents in 2011.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Andy
Not criticizing Lafayette nor their team. Actually feel for team and fans given the circumstances there. Just dont agree with your position. I cant see how one ring and 2 wins over us whitewashes 6 losing seasons. No matter how you phrase it or view it,a losing season is not a good thing. Losing seasons happen sometimes rebuilding,or injuries, but 6 in a row is not excusable . Explainable pefhaps by the overall lack of success of Pard athletics but that is a topic for another forum than here.

Well said. I think that's how the majority of people not affiliated with Lafayette would look at it....

[Pards Rule]

What was going to be a "show" in 2011? Lehigh was MUCH better than Lafayette that year. Maybe the 'Pards score another FG? Lafayette never had a chance in 2011. Much like in '98, '00 and '01. Perhaps Tavani announces his retirement before game and the 'Pards put forth a '99 type performance? Lehigh rolled 7 or 8 opponents in 2011.

Yeah 2011 team was not better than Lehigh.