Nine school presidents say nay to COA

[Sandlapper Spike]

Link (http://www.vmikeydets.com/pdf9/3853209.pdf?ATCLID=210361000&SPSID=44198&SPID=3913&DB_LANG=C&DB_OEM_ID=9800)


Every institution must make choices that reflect its values, priorities and circumstances. Our institutions have chosen not to offer additional cost of attendance payments to student-athletes at this time.We care deeply about our student-athletes, but we also care deeply about all of our students and want to treat all students equitably at a time when overall aid is limited, costs are increasing, and public financial support for higher education is diminishing.

Signed by the leaders of:

James Madison
Delaware
William & Mary
VMI
Wofford
Elon
New Hampshire
Hofstra
Vermont

[Dane96]

Cue JMU and Delaware board implosion in 3...2...1...

[Professor Chaos]

I find it kind of comical that JMU is part of this movement. This is the school that last year subsidized their athletic budget with $33.6M in student fees (source (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances)), far and away more than any other school in the nation. Providing FCOA would equate to about 2% of that student fee subsidy.

[centennial]

I find it kind of comical that JMU is part of this movement. This is the school that last year subsidized their athletic budget with $33.6M in student fees (source (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances)), far and away more than any other school in the nation. Providing FCOA would equate to about 2% of that student fee subsidy.
Lol JMU and Delaware. Delaware especially, they are swimming in money in comparison to the average FCS.

[RootinFerDukes]

I find it kind of comical that JMU is part of this movement. This is the school that last year subsidized their athletic budget with $33.6M in student fees (source (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances)), far and away more than any other school in the nation. Providing FCOA would equate to about 2% of that student fee subsidy.

This is exactly what our fans can't grasp. The state of va just passed legislation forcing schools to lower student fee percentages. We're supposedly not cutting anything, but redistributing things in the budget. Why the hell wasn't that done from the get go?
We can't understand how schools like JMU and UD are paying so much for Fcs football. We have excessively extravagant football games that are on par with many G5 schools.

Basically, we're led by risk averse "leaders" and our vp of finance is the true leader of our school. They've completely botched many opportunities to move to fbs by overanalyzing and looking for the non-existent perfect scenario.

[KPSUL]

I find it kind of comical that JMU is part of this movement. This is the school that last year subsidized their athletic budget with $33.6M in student fees (source (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances)), far and away more than any other school in the nation. Providing FCOA would equate to about 2% of that student fee subsidy.

In the (source) I really don't understand what exactly is meant by total subsidy and what funds the subsidy. I guess I should be mad as hell since I have a daughter at JMU. However, it can't come from "student fees" as only a small portion of her bill is itemized as student fees - way less than dividing the subsidy by the number of undergrads. JMU does seem to spend more money on their football program than other CAA teams, way more than average FCS team expenditures. Withers has the highest HC salary, 4 totally different uniforms last season, Ginormous marching band, Big Ten or SEC size and quality locker room and offices, etc., etc.

I suppose they could be diverting tuition charges, but JMU's tuition is well in line with other state universities, actually a little less than comparable VA schools, George Mason and VCU.

[RootinFerDukes]

Our recent new jerseys, helmets and locker room upgrades were reported to be paid for by a group of our high donors called the alpha dogs. It's private money.

[Professor Chaos]

In the (source) I really don't understand what exactly is meant by total subsidy and what funds the subsidy. I guess I should be mad as hell since I have a daughter at JMU. However, it can't come from "student fees" as only a small portion of her bill is itemized as student fees - way less than dividing the subsidy by the number of undergrads. JMU does seem to spend more money on their football program than other CAA teams, way more than average FCS team expenditures. Withers has the highest HC salary, 4 totally different uniforms last season, Big Ten or SEC size and quality locker room and offices, etc., etc.
It blew my mind when I saw that student fee number in the USA Today database this summer. With 21K undergrads that would be $1600 per undergrad so maybe there's just some creative wording that buckets more things into student fees than one would think. The total subsidy in the database is just student fees + school funds. The ratio between the two appears to greatly vary by school. For instance JMU had $33.6M in student fees and $2.1M in school funds subsidize their AD last year. Likewise Delaware had $0 in student fees but $24.9M in school funds subsidize their AD last year.

[superman7515]

Lol JMU and Delaware. Delaware especially, they are swimming in money in comparison to the average FCS.

You don't get all that money saved up by spending it on petty things like students. xlolx

[superman7515]

Likewise Delaware had $0 in student fees but $24.9M in school funs subsidize their AD last year.

I wonder how much of our forced donations accounts for that number. The season ticket donations go to the school, not to a specific sport (one of the complaints that the STH's had, they didn't want to subsidize swimming with football tickets), so I wonder if a chunk of that is the UDAF money.

[Professor Chaos]

I wonder how much of our forced donations accounts for that number. The season ticket donations go to the school, not to a specific sport (one of the complaints that the STH's had, they didn't want to subsidize swimming with football tickets), so I wonder if a chunk of that is the UDAF money.
They do have a "Contributions" category under revenues, that's where I would guess that money goes to. In 2014 Delaware showed $1,656,124 in contributions. Who knows though, I'm sure there's some very "creative accounting" when it comes to showing how the books are balanced in college athletics.

[KPSUL]

This is exactly what our fans can't grasp. The state of va just passed legislation forcing schools to lower student fee percentages. We're supposedly not cutting anything, but redistributing things in the budget. Why the hell wasn't that done from the get go?
We can't understand how schools like JMU and UD are paying so much for Fcs football. We have excessively extravagant football games that are on par with many G5 schools.

Basically, we're led by risk averse "leaders" and our vp of finance is the true leader of our school. They've completely botched many opportunities to move to fbs by overanalyzing and looking for the non-existent perfect scenario.
All this magic money must be coming from all you wealthy JMU alumni paying thousands to sit in the Gold seats and have access to the club house lounge!

[RootinFerDukes]

Not every state has similar accounting reporting regulations for their public universities. It's not always an apples to apples comparison.
In va, anything that goes near athletics must be a line item in the Athletics budget.

[superman7515]

I'm shocked, shocked, to find that Stuart Rabinowitz was opposed to spending money on student athletes.

[citdog]

I'm shocked, shocked, to find that Stuart Rabinowitz was opposed to spending money on student athletes.

Why? Because he is a Jew? Does your Fire Department wear brown shirts or is being an anti-semite just a weekend thing for you?

[superman7515]

Why? Because he is a Jew? Does your Fire Department wear brown shirts or is being an anti-semite just a weekend thing for you?

Because he's the one that cut their football team... But since we're on the subject, be sure to shower up before you get on my train.

[bonarae]

Rabinowitz is still around? xeekx

He should've been let go years ago for an ETSU-esque saga to begin at Hofstra. Or they'll end up like a BU or Pacific. xsmhx

[Cocky]

Doesnt JMU fund their band through athletics?

[bluehenbillk]

I think both UD & JMU are happy where they are. Their fanbases may not be but I don't think either school is going anywhere. At least anytime soon.

[Mattymc727]

I wonder why Maine and URI didnt sign. Would have to think they were asked.

[Pinnum]

I wonder why Maine and URI didnt sign. Would have to think they were asked.

Maine - Ice Hockey
Rhode Island - Basketball (Atlantic 10 is a multi-bid power conference that already declared FCOA)

Though I do suspect they have agreed not to offer FCOA to football players.

[Sitting Bull]

I wonder why Maine and URI didnt sign. Would have to think they were asked.

Maine: hockey
URI: basketball

I was surprised that Northeastern, College of Charleston and Furman were not on the list. Maybe it didn't make all the rounds - or they chose not to show their cards.

[BisonFan02]

Meanwhile in Fargo...... :D

http://31.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m14yfs77oL1rrl1eso1_500.gif



If it wasn't known before, JMU has basically taken themselves out of any FBS conversations going forward.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Maine - Ice Hockey
Rhode Island - Basketball (Atlantic 10 is a multi-bid power conference that already declared FCOA)

Though I do suspect they have agreed not to offer FCOA to football players.

Fair points both, but in regards to ice hockey, it's pretty striking that Maine didn't sign but both UNH and Vermont did. All of them compete in the same conference and all have the Frozen Four as their realistic goals for the season.

URI isn't a shock at all because Bernadette McGlade of the A-10 pretty much already declared that the entire conference is going to offer FCOA across the board.

[Pinnum]

Fair points both, but in regards to ice hockey, it's pretty striking that Maine didn't sign but both UNH and Vermont did. All of them compete in the same conference and all have the Frozen Four as their realistic goals for the season .


I was thinking the same thing...

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Breaking this down a little:

Wofford, VMI --> two of the tiniest schools in Division I, probably can't afford FCOA

James Madison, Delaware --> seem like they're dedicated to making the CAA and FCS football work. They're putting a line in the sand saying they're not going to the MAC, who already have authorized partial FCOA. C-USA, Sun Belt not an option either.

William & Mary, Elon --> always were 100% behind CAA, but strange that they are willing to fall behind in hoops to the A-10, who pointedly is offering FCOA in hoops at least

New Hampshire --> probably happy that football stays on same playing field and with at least five core members with the same philosophy. But hockey could be impacted.

Hofstra, Vermont --> very strange as they're hobbling their overall athletics programs and possibly harming the competitiveness in hoops (Hofstra) and hockey (Vermont) while really gaining nothing in the bargain, especially Vermont

Is anyone raising their eyebrow a little at the fact that seven FCS schools signed this letter, five of which are in the existing CAA, and two that are in the SoCon? Conveniently enough to potentially form a new FCS football conference. Just sayin.

Very interesting to note the schools that didn't sign:

A-10: Richmond, URI
A-East: Stony Brook, Albany, Maine
Big East: Villanova
Full CAA: Towson

That is an awful lot of CAA football members that chose not to sign that piece of paper. And Towson really sticks out. Maybe Richmond, URI, and Villanova are sort-of understandable because of their hoops affiliation. Towson has no excuse.

[Redwyn]

Breaking this down a little:

Wofford, VMI --> two of the tiniest schools in Division I, probably can't afford FCOA

James Madison, Delaware --> seem like they're dedicated to making the CAA and FCS football work. They're putting a line in the sand saying they're not going to the MAC, who already have authorized partial FCOA. C-USA, Sun Belt not an option either.

William & Mary, Elon --> always were 100% behind CAA, but strange that they are willing to fall behind in hoops to the A-10, who pointedly is offering FCOA in hoops at least

New Hampshire --> probably happy that football stays on same playing field and with at least five core members with the same philosophy. But hockey could be impacted.

Hofstra, Vermont --> very strange as they're hobbling their overall athletics programs and possibly harming the competitiveness in hoops (Hofstra) and hockey (Vermont) while really gaining nothing in the bargain, especially Vermont

Is anyone raising their eyebrow a little at the fact that seven FCS schools signed this letter, five of which are in the existing CAA, and two that are in the SoCon? Conveniently enough to potentially form a new FCS football conference. Just sayin.

Very interesting to note the schools that didn't sign:

A-10: Richmond, URI
A-East: Stony Brook, Albany, Maine
Big East: Villanova
Full CAA: Towson

That is an awful lot of CAA football members that chose not to sign that piece of paper. And Towson really sticks out. Maybe Richmond, URI, and Villanova are sort-of understandable because of their hoops affiliation. Towson has no excuse.


Stony Brook has gone on record as supporting a move to at least G5 and promoting FCOA. It's not surprising that we wouldn't sign. Towson is not much different than we are from a media market and demographic perspective. With further evolution I assume they want a similar trajectory. Not sure I'm ready to see SBU as the next U Mass or circa 2000's Buffalo, but it's likely what will happen

[Catbooster]

I didn't notice it mentioned on AGS, but the Montana schools are not going to offer full cost of attendance. Sounds like the Board of Regents has basically told them it won't happen as things stand now. The AD's have said they will continue to monitor what happens. To me, it essentially sounds like they are ok with not doing it for now, but if it becomes necessary to stay competitive they will push the BOR for it.

[Mattymc727]

Hockey isnt an excuse with Maine, UVM and UNH have better hockey teams right now and are in the same conference.

Perhaps Maine may try to use FCOA at some point with a new AD and use it as a recruiting tool? Getting kids up to Orono is getting harder and harder. Maybe URI may want to use it just to stay competitive again.

[tribe_pride]

Very interesting to note the schools that didn't sign:

A-10: Richmond, URI
A-East: Stony Brook, Albany, Maine
Big East: Villanova
Full CAA: Towson

That is an awful lot of CAA football members that chose not to sign that piece of paper. And Towson really sticks out. Maybe Richmond, URI, and Villanova are sort-of understandable because of their hoops affiliation. Towson has no excuse.


As you said, Richmond, URI and Nova aren't going to because of hoops but I don't see any of those 3 giving for football. I don't see Maine giving for football either. That just leaves Towson, SBU and Albany who I could see possibly doing it but don't know enough about Albany to go one way or the other.

[Daytripper]

Meanwhile in Fargo...... :D

http://31.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m14yfs77oL1rrl1eso1_500.gif



If it wasn't known before, JMU has basically taken themselves out of any FBS conversations going forward.


Unfortunately, this is true. FCOA is the future. Get on board or go DII.

[centennial]

Unfortunately, this is true. FCOA is the future. Get on board or go DII.

2-3 FCOA classes from NDSU et all, and the difference between the have and the have nots in the FCS will become wider. Not only that we lose quite a bit to D2 when kids can't break 1-2 deep. That will also slow down, making our depth better, it will make sure we don't have situations like Montana when we have 10 new starters on defence. At that point we become wolf in sheep's clothing. We already win recruiting battles against the MAC, lower MW, this will make sure we are on equal footing.

[KUlawJack]

2-3 FCOA classes from NDSU et all, and the difference between the have and the have nots in the FCS will become wider. Not only that we lose quite a bit to D2 when kids can't break 1-2 deep. That will also slow down, making our depth better, it will make sure we don't have situations like Montana when we have 10 new starters on defence. At that point we become wolf in sheep's clothing. We already win recruiting battles against the MAC, lower MW, this will make sure we are on equal footing.

I have not read many articles from the schools that have stated they will be providing FCOA. How are the funds being acquired to offer it? In NDSU's case, is it through individual private donations or do you have large donor making a big contribution and then pay FCOA from the interest? Just curious as to how schools are doing it.

[BisonFan02]

I have not read many articles from the schools that have stated they will be providing FCOA. How are the funds being acquired to offer it? In NDSU's case, is it through individual private donations or do you have large donor making a big contribution and then pay FCOA from the interest? Just curious as to how schools are doing it.

http://ndsuathleticfund.com/


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FXQ4cLw_gU&feature=youtu.be&list=PLMC69eD vEjmGwKJPxyO7Etrf5ODfmpkZY

All private donations...major anon donors agreed to cover half the cost over the next 3 years already.

[centennial]

I have not read many articles from the schools that have stated they will be providing FCOA. How are the funds being acquired to offer it? In NDSU's case, is it through individual private donations or do you have large donor making a big contribution and then pay FCOA from the interest? Just curious as to how schools are doing it.

We have half the amount already pledged from private donors for the next 3 years. The rest the school is going to get from other private donations. We could possibly raise single game football ticket prices $5, and also make the majority of the money that way. Or could allow alcohol in the Fargodome. Student fees will not be increased.

[Sitting Bull]

Breaking this down a little:

Wofford, VMI --> two of the tiniest schools in Division I, probably can't afford FCOA

James Madison, Delaware --> seem like they're dedicated to making the CAA and FCS football work. They're putting a line in the sand saying they're not going to the MAC, who already have authorized partial FCOA. C-USA, Sun Belt not an option either.

William & Mary, Elon --> always were 100% behind CAA, but strange that they are willing to fall behind in hoops to the A-10, who pointedly is offering FCOA in hoops at least

New Hampshire --> probably happy that football stays on same playing field and with at least five core members with the same philosophy. But hockey could be impacted.

Hofstra, Vermont --> very strange as they're hobbling their overall athletics programs and possibly harming the competitiveness in hoops (Hofstra) and hockey (Vermont) while really gaining nothing in the bargain, especially Vermont

Is anyone raising their eyebrow a little at the fact that seven FCS schools signed this letter, five of which are in the existing CAA, and two that are in the SoCon? Conveniently enough to potentially form a new FCS football conference. Just sayin.

Very interesting to note the schools that didn't sign:

A-10: Richmond, URI
A-East: Stony Brook, Albany, Maine
Big East: Villanova
Full CAA: Towson

That is an awful lot of CAA football members that chose not to sign that piece of paper. And Towson really sticks out. Maybe Richmond, URI, and Villanova are sort-of understandable because of their hoops affiliation. Towson has no excuse.


Agreed, Towson averages about 7,000 per game in football, 2,000 per game in basketball and came close to pulling the plug on their baseball program two years ago.

There's not a lot of money flying around there.

The bigger question is whether now - or is it likely in the future (ala Title 9) that - if you offer these stipends, are you allowed to do so for only one program? Or if you are UR as example, and decide to offer COA on basketball, are you required to offer for womens field hockey as well? If no, I can see some lawsuits.

[Bisonator]

Link (http://www.vmikeydets.com/pdf9/3853209.pdf?ATCLID=210361000&SPSID=44198&SPID=3913&DB_LANG=C&DB_OEM_ID=9800)



Signed by the leaders of:

James Madison
Delaware
William & Mary
VMI
Wofford
Elon
New Hampshire
Hofstra
Vermont

The link didn't work for me but my question is this for all sports or just FCS football? I would assume they are offering FCOA for BB, no? If not they are really hamstringing their athletic departments!

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The link didn't work for me but my question is this for all sports or just FCS football? I would assume they are offering FCOA for BB, no? If not they are really hamstringing their athletic departments!

The relevant bit:


Much of the recent public discourse regarding college athletics has focused attention on the veryfew elite athletes who may go on to have lucrative professional sports careers and on athleticrevenues that flow to a relatively small number of institutions from media rights, ticket sales andsponsorships. The widely held public opinion that athletic programs at every institution are―profit centers‖ for the institution and that the athletes are being taken advantage of in the questfor revenues is simply not true. Most institutions invest millions of dollars annually beyond themonies generated by athletics in order to support their student-athletes and the benefits andvalues intercollegiate sports bring to the institution. The extremely limited view of thoseadvocating a more professional model towards individual compensation ignores the experienceof most of our student athletes and the fundamental point that they are students – not employeesand not biding their time at a professional training camp.

While we are happy for that very smallnumber of students who are able to pursue professional sports careers (which typically last only afew years), we must maintain our focus on the education that we provide that will prepare themfor life after college and life after sport.Given that focus, we believe that we must continue to treat these students as we do our otherstudents. Across our campuses, many of our students have financial need, and we need tobalance the support and spending on athletics with our primary academic and student priorities.Some institutions have recently opted to offer ―cost of attendance‖ payments that provideadditional economic benefits for miscellaneous expenses to some or all student-athletes(particularly in high-profile sports that receive significant media attention). Every institutionmust make choices that reflect its values, priorities and circumstances. Our institutions havechosen not to offer additional ―cost of attendance‖ payments to student-athletes at this time.

This pointedly includes basketball.

[Bisonator]

The relevant bit:



This pointedly includes basketball.
Thanks LFN. Wow they might as well just drop to D2 now.

[JMU2K_DukeDawg]

I sent an e-mail voicing my displeasure to the President and AD. No doubt they are getting flooded with e-mails by the loyal part of the fanbase that is aware. Yes, the JMU boards are imploding (yet again).

Many of us support the idea/concept of being opposed to COA, but it is not in line with reality or even the strategic plan. Most think this is a very left-wing activist lawyer's (JMU's prez) stand for personal professional gain more than looking out for the university's best interest. This all stinks of wanting to be some small private school, when all JMU is doing is growing by leaps and bounds in many other areas. The math just doesn't add up on many fronts, the least of which is the $80 million new basketball convocation center that still has yet to break ground. Baffling.

Stony Brook and Towson seem to be the next in line (along side Liberty) for FBS. JMU and Delaware remain imaginations of what could be.

[Sitting Bull]

2-3 FCOA classes from NDSU et all, and the difference between the have and the have nots in the FCS will become wider. Not only that we lose quite a bit to D2 when kids can't break 1-2 deep. That will also slow down, making our depth better, it will make sure we don't have situations like Montana when we have 10 new starters on defence. At that point we become wolf in sheep's clothing. We already win recruiting battles against the MAC, lower MW, this will make sure we are on equal footing.

Are you assuming the MAC and lower MW wont be offering COA as well? Certainly at higher rates than ND State?

Seems some think you are operating in a vacuum on this. The costs are going to skyrocket.

If you look down the road, how is this not going to be mandated that if you give for one sport, you have to give for all. How many are going to afford that?

[centennial]

Are you assuming the MAC and lower MW wont be offering COA as well? Certainly at higher rates than ND State?

Seems some think you are operating in a vacuum on this. The costs are going to skyrocket.

If you look down the road, how is this not going to be mandated that if you give for one sport, you have to give for all. How many are going to afford that?

Firstly, COA is for all sports at NDSU. Secondly, NDSU COA is competitive with MAC, MW. Other than that, I expect us to get better athletes. We will get more G5 level talent. Not only that we get priority over the rest of the non COA FCS. Also, the total cost is less than a million payed by private donors.
It pays off with the publicity we get being on the top end of the FCS. Not only that our newly found lower mid major status will be in jeopardy in basketball. Add to that we just joined the Big 12 for wrestling, we cannot compete without COA(NDSU is ranked well in wrestling, we have been top 25 a few times)

[Lehigh Football Nation]

If you look down the road, how is this not going to be mandated that if you give for one sport, you have to give for all. How many are going to afford that?

I've said from the very beginning this would be the case. There is one definition of "scholarship", and it's done at the institutional level. Any school which is saying that they're doing it for basketball but not other sports are de facto defining scholarship twice.

[WileECoyote06]

Unfortunately, this is true. FCOA is the future. Get on board or go DII.

Orrrr.. .those who want to offer FCOA can go to FBS or FBS-AA or whatever that division will come to be known as.

[Daytripper]

I've said from the very beginning this would be the case. There is one definition of "scholarship", and it's done at the institutional level. Any school which is saying that they're doing it for basketball but not other sports are de facto defining scholarship twice.

Baseball offers partial scholarships all the time. Is that different?

[bostonspider]

In the case of UR, offering it for Men's basketball means offering it for Women's basketball as well.. But yes for now those are the only two sports that will be receiving the COA. I wonder how this will play with the other athletes, and if UR will eventually feel the need to do it for all sports, since they can afford it.

[Twentysix]

NDSU's FCOA is for the entire AD. It isn't just football. It mirrors each athletes scholarship.

[Sitting Bull]

In the case of UR, offering it for Men's basketball means offering it for Women's basketball as well.. But yes for now those are the only two sports that will be receiving the COA. I wonder how this will play with the other athletes, and if UR will eventually feel the need to do it for all sports, since they can afford it.

If UR has all this money, why did they drop their soccer program?

[BigHouseClosedEnd]

^^Because school leadership only wants 13% of the students to be student athletes. I'm not going the regurgitate all the (lack of) logic that went into that but it really didn't have to do with money.

[BigHouseClosedEnd]

My overwhelming curiosity about this letter is why did these 9 Presidents get together on this? CAA, SoCon, America East ... Public, Private, semi public/private, military. Very odd.

[KPSUL]

It's way to early to be making any assumptions about COA becoming wide spread across the FCS. Comments like "then they might as well drop down to Div 2 now" are totally off base. There are small regions, namely the Dakotas, where offering COA seems close to a necessity already. And by offering COA Liberty may corner the market for two and three star football recruits who want to go to a school that has a spiritual and moral philosophy that is fairly uncommon among the college age demographic. (I suspect they already had) The COA issue will end up having little or no effect in the East. OK so a couple of schools may offer COA and get a small recruiting edge for a period of time. Stony Brook is the one program mentioned here, but if they are so hell bent on getting in a G5 conference, they may not be around long enough to derive any benefit from COA while still at the FCS level. Eventually I think we'll see a few schools aspiring to FBS participation offer COA and a larger, but still minority number of schools offering COA to stay competitive in a couple isolated markets. The vast majority of FCS schools will choose not to offer COA.

[KPSUL]

My overwhelming curiosity about this letter is why did these 9 Presidents get together on this? CAA, SoCon, America East ... Public, Private, semi public/private, military. Very odd.

I don't know why all of them decided to get out in front on this; however, it is clear that VMI did so because they are the preeminent State Sponsored Military Academy.

[superman7515]

My overwhelming curiosity about this letter is why did these 9 Presidents get together on this? CAA, SoCon, America East ... Public, Private, semi public/private, military. Very odd.

And how much of a commitment is our interim President's word worth considering she'll be gone before next season?

[RootinFerDukes]

Doesnt JMU fund their band through athletics?
I heard it was part of our athletics budget. Part of the restructuring of the budget to better comply with the new VA student athletic fees law is that we're supposedly going to put the costs associated with the band in our general budget.

[RootinFerDukes]

If it wasn't known before, JMU has basically taken themselves out of any FBS conversations going forward.
If you're turning down a wide open Sun Belt opportunity and are rumored to have turned down past MAC and CUSA opportunities within the last decade... I think they've more than made it crystal clear. They've done everything in their power to avoid the massive elephant in the room that is conference realignment.

[ngineer]

Firstly, COA is for all sports at NDSU. Secondly, NDSU COA is competitive with MAC, MW. Other than that, I expect us to get better athletes. We will get more G5 level talent. Not only that we get priority over the rest of the non COA FCS. Also, the total cost is less than a million payed by private donors.
It pays off with the publicity we get being on the top end of the FCS. Not only that our newly found lower mid major status will be in jeopardy in basketball. Add to that we just joined the Big 12 for wrestling, we cannot compete without COA(NDSU is ranked well in wrestling, we have been top 25 a few times)




Come on east and visit the "Snake Pit". We owe you guys one! (;-)

[PantherRob82]

If it wasn't known before, JMU has basically taken themselves out of any FBS conversations going forward.

Agreed.

[FargoBison]

So this is for every sport? These schools are going to kill themselves when it comes to hoops with this stance. This is going to be basically a must for every basketball program in DI. Football and other sports you can get by, especially FCS were the interest doesn't seem very strong right now.

[Sader87]

Foolishness....the FCoA wasn't intended for FCS football....the whole thing is absurd, just form both a minor league football and basketball league and get it ovah with.

[citdog]

I wonder how much it could cost at VMI? All Keydets live in the barracks, eat in the mess hall, and they have no graduate school so any 5th year player has to soldier for an extra semester and who the **** wants to do that bull****?

[bonarae]

Foolishness....the FCoA wasn't intended for FCS football....the whole thing is absurd, just form both a minor league football and basketball league and get it ovah with.

Why did baseball and ice hockey not inspire the other two leagues to form deep minor league systems in the first place? xchinscratchx

[WileECoyote06]

Foolishness....the FCoA wasn't intended for FCS football....the whole thing is absurd, just form both a minor league football and basketball league and get it ovah with.

Pretty much. Four schools out of 125 have claimed they will offer FCoA. In what is essentially a cost-control division, what would be the point?

[WileECoyote06]

Why did baseball and ice hockey not inspire the other two leagues to form deep minor league systems in the first place? xchinscratchx

Football costs way too much, and there are too many players on a roster. I don't know about basketball; the NBADL is there, but many players would rather play overseas for a few years where they can make more money.

[Mattymc727]

So this is for every sport? These schools are going to kill themselves when it comes to hoops with this stance. This is going to be basically a must for every basketball program in DI. Football and other sports you can get by, especially FCS were the interest doesn't seem very strong right now.

Whats basketball? UNH has never even made the dance in hoops. Not an issue or even a conversation for some of these schools. Its HOCKEY and football up here.

[Mattymc727]

Pretty much. Four schools out of 125 have claimed they will offer FCoA. In what is essentially a cost-control division, what would be the point?

The point would be those four schools showing the FBS they want to be FBS. When a conference comes calling next, those four will play.

[whoanellie]

Am I wrong in thinking that the reason these schools are opting out a FCOA is that the TV revenue is just enough to fund these programs?
As the moratorium consided by the Power 5 on FCS programs seems to be on the horizon as additional loss of revenus. It just makes sense these schools be prudent, not to mention what a Grant in Aid is worth at these schools.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Foolishness....the FCoA wasn't intended for FCS football....the whole thing is absurd, just form both a minor league football and basketball league and get it ovah with.

It is, but thanks to "autonomy", another ridiculous concept that basically lets the P5 do whatever they damn please, it's the law of the land. Their absurd, ill-thought-out plan has deep effects on athletic departments at all levels. 15% of NCAA's membership making rules for the other 85%. It's insane.

[KPSUL]

I wonder how much it could cost at VMI? All Keydets live in the barracks, eat in the mess hall, and they have no graduate school so any 5th year player has to soldier for an extra semester and who the **** wants to do that bull****?

You're right. A can of Brasso and a couple tins of Kiwi Black. How much could that cost?

[FargoBison]

Whats basketball? UNH has never even made the dance in hoops. Not an issue or even a conversation for some of these schools. Its HOCKEY and football up here.

Well hoops is a bit more important at Hofstra, JMU, Delaware, William and Mary, Vermont and Wofford. Really surprised to see the CAA schools take this stance, thought they would be more like the Horizon and MVC.

Heck I think even most of the Summit schools are going to offer it for basketball.

[KPSUL]

Well hoops is a bit more important at Hofstra, JMU, Delaware, William and Mary, Vermont and Wofford. Really surprised to see the CAA schools take this stance, thought they would be more like the Horizon and MVC.

Heck I think even most of the Summit schools are going to offer it for basketball.

Most CAA, (actually a majority of east coast FCS teams) AD and fans are just dealing with a different reality than you MVFC guys. I know you may find it hard to believe, but when it comes to winning at all costs, we are willing to draw the line on "cost" at a lower level. And I don't mean just $$ when I say cost. Frankly, I don't know how to explain the difference, maybe someone more knowledgeable could offer a better explanation.

[superman7515]

Well hoops is a bit more important at Hofstra, JMU, Delaware, William and Mary, Vermont and Wofford. Really surprised to see the CAA schools take this stance, thought they would be more like the Horizon and MVC.

Heck I think even most of the Summit schools are going to offer it for basketball.

The fans care. The administration doesn't. If anyone thought basketball mattered at UD, they just need to look at Monte Ross getting a contract extension for being the losingest coach in UD history.

[bostonspider]

"The University of Richmond is providing cost of attendance to scholarship men’s and women’s basketball players, which is required by the Atlantic 10 Conference, at $1,300 per student-athlete. Also, UR is allowing coaches in other sports to provide cost of attendance from money in their existing budgets."

[Lehigh Football Nation]

"The University of Richmond is providing cost of attendance to scholarship men’s and women’s basketball players, which is required by the Atlantic 10 Conference, at $1,300 per student-athlete. Also, UR is allowing coaches in other sports to provide cost of attendance from money in their existing budgets."

Translation: They're not prevented from offering it. Because the definition of a scholarship at Richmonnd is different than the definition of a scholarship at Elon.

[superman7515]

http://www.delawareonline.com/story/sports/college/ud/2015/10/12/ud-cost-attendance-sports/73520354/


In January, what are known as the Big Five college sports conferences – the ACC, SEC, Big Ten, Big 12 and Pac-12 – voted to supplement all of their athletic scholarships with a monetary payout termed “cost of attendance,” or COA. So in addition to the room, board, textbooks, tuition and fees covered by their athletic scholarship, every athlete in these conferences will get additional money each school year to cover costs such as travel to and from home and other general daily living expenses.

Division I schools outside of the Big Five are not required to give their athletes COA money. Delaware's two Division I athletic programs – the University of Delaware and Delaware State University – will not offer COA payments. UD officials say it doesn't make financial sense for the school.

“When we think about our six [hundred] or seven hundred athletes here,” interim Delaware President Nancy Targett told The News Journal, “and what we’re providing for them already in terms of the financial-aid packages that they’re getting in terms of the subsidies that we’re providing for the athletic program, we have to think about the rest of the students at the institution. To add some additional financial incentives for this smaller group of students is a detriment to the rest of the students in the institution.’’

For college athletic programs already facing financial challenges and a competitive gulf with the NCAA’s elite, there are ethical and economic concerns, Delaware Athletic Director Eric Ziady said. In fact, UD was among nine college leaders who signed a Sept. 21 letter opposing the practice.

Among the nine signees were the presidents at Delaware’s Colonial Athletic Association rivals James Madison, William & Mary, Elon and Hofstra, as well as New Hampshire, which is a CAA member for football.

But other CAA schools will make COA payments, putting Delaware at a recruiting disadvantage. Delaware State is a member of the Mid-Eastern Athletic Conference, where none of the members will make COA payments.

Every college’s cost of attendance is set by its financial-aid office using a federal formula. At Delaware and Delaware State, it would be $1,500 per athlete, per school year.

“When you look at the cost of attendance at the University of Delaware, the dollar value is not that high,” Targett said. “I would have a hard time thinking that someone would make a decision just based on that amount. ... I do not think that’s it’s going to disadvantage us in any way.”

But some parents and athletes disagree.

Frank Burton Sr.'s son and namesake is a two-way end who was state Lineman of the Year as a junior at William Penn High in 2014. He said cost of attendance was certainly a consideration when Frank Jr. verbally committed to Ball State of the NCAA Division I Football Bowl Subdivision (FBS) in June. Delaware, which also recruited Burton, plays football in the Division I Football Championship Subdivision (FCS).

After graduating from Brandywine High, Frank Burton Sr. was a football and baseball standout himself an hour from home at Delaware State, where he graduated in 1985. And though he was on scholarship, it would have been extremely helpful to have pocket money, he said.

“When I was in school, we weren’t allowed to have jobs on campus where I would have been able to make the funds to get back and forth to home,” Frank Burton Sr. said. “For kids on scholarship, wherever they are, to not be able to afford a plane or train or bus ticket home is a travesty.”

The fact that Ball State, which is located in Muncie, Indiana, will provide COA payments “resonated with me because of my experience, and I knew what it was like to be away and not able to afford to get home.”

Delaware football coach Dave Brock recognizes that COA payments may influence some players he recruits, though, in the case of players from Delaware such as Burton, travel costs wouldn’t be significant.
Brock said recruiting against COA schools requires UD coaches to highlight Delaware’s other virtues.

“What you have to explain is, ‘Here’s our comprehensive model. This is how we do it at Delaware.’ ” Brock said. “You have an opportunity when you sign here, you’re going to come in, you’re going to take summer school, you’re going to take six credits just like they do whether it’s Maryland, Rutgers, Pitt, whoever it is. You’re going to be here winter session. You’re going to be supported as well as anybody is supported in the country at this level.”

As a result, Brock said, “I think we can recruit very competitively.”

Delaware men’s basketball coach Monte Ross said he was recently recruiting a player in North Carolina when the player asked the coach, “What’s the deal with the extra money they’re giving?” Ross had to explain what that meant and that Delaware is not providing that benefit....

[Mattymc727]

We know what UNH's stance is on the subject, and the AD and Coach Mac have a very close relationship. If Coach Mac thought that UNH needed to provided COA to compete for recruiting, the UNH AD would make it happen. Perhaps in time these schools will change their mind, especially if the coaches realize they arent winning the recruiting battles.