Ex Fordham star Mason Halter to start for Florida Gators

[Fordhamanhattan]

Fordham's star offensive tackle Mason Halter (6'8" 297) who lost a year to illness but wasn't able to play at Fordham due to a ridiculous Patriot League rule that does not allow a fifth year for non football related injuries, is slated to start at Florida as a Graduate student.

[DFW HOYA]

Fordham needs to fight the rule. If past experience is any indication, six of the seven schools will be go along with them.

[Fordham]

That is pretty awesome. Congrats to Mason and it's a shame he's not suited up for Fordham again given his additional year of eligibility.

[LeopardBall10]

To be honest, the story doesn't add all the way up. My understanding of the rule was that any "hardship" whether it be from a football injury or outside illness qualified under the PL's medical redshirt policy. The way the rule is stated it looks like you could even make a case for a non-injury hardship:


A. Years of Eligibility due to a Hardship Waiver.

An extension of eligibility may begranted by a member institution at its discretion to a student who misses a season ofcompetition as a result of serious injury, illness, or other cause beyond the student’scontrol. These waivers must be approved in writing by the institution’sPresident/Superintendent, reviewed by the Executive Director to assure that all NCAArequirements are met, and reported to the Policy Committee to monitor compliance withthe spirit of the rule. [Council, June 2002]

But, I am not sure why he would be able to transfer and play right away if that was not the case. I know at Lafayette we have run into the issue of players transferring to play their 5th year at a bigger school with more visibility and they can play right away, even though they transfer up because Lafayette does not have a graduate school. As long as the player is enrolled in graduate classes at the new school there is not a waiting period.

[LeopardBall10]

The full 2013-2014 Policies and Procedure are found HERE (http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/patr/genrel/auto_pdf/2013-14/misc_non_event/201314PLPolicyProcedureManual.pdf) and they give a more clear description on page 29-30.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Isn't this the Vernon Adams rule, basically? He graduated from Fordham as an undergrad and can take his services anywhere. Florida needed a great lineman, so they got him, and now he's a starter.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

First Shawn Johnson now this guy. Those are two elite players that Fordham has lost out to due yo the PL's "interesting" rules.....

[Sandlapper Spike]

Very odd. Can't imagine why the Patriot League would have a rule like this.

While happy for his chance with the Gators, Halter said he actually would have remained at Fordham for his final season. But the Patriot League’s narrow guidelines did not allow him to receive a fifth year of eligibility, despite sitting out his freshman season with mononucleosis.

The rules forced Halter to find a new home. The fact he graduated - in economics and business administration - allowed Halter to pursue a master’s degree and play immediately somewhere else.

“If I could have played again I definitely would have stayed,” Halter said of Fordham. “I was comfortable with the coaches. I loved it up there in New York.”

Link (http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/florida-gators/swamp-things-blog/os-gators-transfer-mason-halter-oline-20150610-post.html)

[Lehigh Football Nation]

First Shawn Johnson now this guy. Those are two elite players that Fordham has lost out to due yo the PL's "interesting" rules.....

The actual rules of eligibility waivers for the PL 1) give quite a bit of discretion to the schools, and 2) are very similar to those in full scholarship FCS schools


A. Standard Waivers
Such waiver requests will be approved in writing by the institution’s President/Superintendent, reviewed by the Executive Director and reported to the Policy Committee during their November or May meeting in order to monitor compliance with the spirit of the rule. [Council, June 2002]

i. Years of Eligibility due to an NCAA Hardship Waiver An extension of undergraduate Patriot League eligibility may be granted by a League institution at its discretion to a student who misses a season ofcompetition as a result of a serious injury and/or illness and receives anNCAA Hardship Waiver. [Council, June 2002] (Please note that an institution must file a corresponding NCAA Hardship Waiver for review by the Executive Director to insure all NCAA requirements are met. The NCAA Hardship Waiver will be included in Patriot League waiver report to Policy Committee.)

Either Fordham screwed up, the NCAA denied his hardship waiver, or Mason simply wanted to test the waters a la Vernon Adams. But what is abundantly clear is that there's no "Mason Halter" rule in the Patriot League rules which specifically denies him the ability to continue at Fordham. It clearly states that it's up to Fordham's discretion and up to Fordham to file an NCAA hardship waiver.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Very odd. Can't imagine why the Patriot League would have a rule like this.

While happy for his chance with the Gators, Halter said he actually would have remained at Fordham for his final season. But the Patriot League’s narrow guidelines did not allow him to receive a fifth year of eligibility, despite sitting out his freshman season with mononucleosis.

The rules forced Halter to find a new home. The fact he graduated - in economics and business administration - allowed Halter to pursue a master’s degree and play immediately somewhere else.

“If I could have played again I definitely would have stayed,” Halter said of Fordham. “I was comfortable with the coaches. I loved it up there in New York.”

Link (http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/florida-gators/swamp-things-blog/os-gators-transfer-mason-halter-oline-20150610-post.html)

I smell a rat.

[Fordham]

I smell a rat.
?

[RichH2]

Fordham's star offensive tackle Mason Halter (6'8" 297) who lost a year to illness but wasn't able to play at Fordham due to a ridiculous Patriot League rule that does not allow a fifth year for non football related injuries, is slated to start at Florida as a Graduate student.
Absolutely wrong. PL does not limit redshirt to football related injuries. Not a big fan of our current rule but it has nothing to do with this transfer.

[RichH2]

I smell a rat.
I dont know whether a rat but , the explanation cited in the article makes zero sense. At the very least ,it omits any facts which could support that conclusion. Given the clear procedures necessary to apply for a waiver ,if Fordham followed them and Mr.Halter's illness prevented his participation there is no basis under the quoted rules for him not to be granted a 5th year at Forahdm. Seems to me to be a CYA story by Fordham.

[Fordhamanhattan]

For those not familiar with Shawn Johnson, he was the all SEC defensive end from Duke who wanted to join his brother Travis at Fordham for his final year of eligibility. His bid was turned down because other Patriot league teams did not have graduate schools. He instead helped Delaware to a National Championship. His brother graduated Fordham, did two tours with Marines and is now in law enforcement.

[CFBfan]

For those not familiar with Shawn Johnson, he was the all SEC defensive end from Duke who wanted to join his brother Travis at Fordham for his final year of eligibility. His bid was turned down because other Patriot league teams did not have graduate schools. He instead helped Delaware to a National Championship. His brother graduated Fordham, did two tours with Marines and is now in law enforcement.

FM, that is completely different than the situation being discussed.......

[RichH2]

He's not saying its comparable ,just explaining a prior reference to it in the thread.

[superman7515]

For those not familiar with Shawn Johnson...

http://articles.philly.com/2003-12-17/sports/25470620_1_blue-hens-fordham-duke-experience


When Shawn Johnson was recruited by the University of Delaware, he spent no time wondering whether the school really wanted him."The president took me on my visit," Johnson said.

Johnson, a defensive end, already had played three years at Duke, had been at the school for four years, and was about to graduate with a 3.8 grade-point average, making him a fine candidate for graduate school at Delaware.

Another credential: He was named to the all-Atlantic Coast Conference first team in 2002, after leading the ACC in sacks.

Why was he looking to move?

"Something was missing," Johnson said of his Duke experience.

That would have been winning. In Johnson's three years, Duke won just two games, and none in ACC play. Johnson decided last year that he wanted to transfer to a Division I-AA school and experience some of that winning.

That turned out to be a wildly successful plan, since the Blue Hens are two days away from playing for the Division I-AA national championship.

On Friday night, when Colgate takes the field against them in Chattanooga, Tenn., its first priority on offense has to be to handle Johnson.

Double teams on the 6-foot-5, 275-pounder from Fairport, N.Y., became mandatory throughout the Atlantic Ten, and Johnson, the A-10's defensive player of the year, still had 13 sacks and 25 1/2 tackles for losses, six broken-up passes, two fumble recoveries, and three forced fumbles.
.
.
.
.

If he's tough on Colgate, that school has its own conference to thank. At first, Johnson had looked to transfer to Colgate's Patriot League rival, Fordham. There were press reports last spring that he had decided to go there. His younger brother was a senior on Fordham's team this season.

Unbeknownst to Fordham's coaches, the Patriot League has an athletic rule that no school can take in a graduate of another school, even if he has eligibility remaining and can be admitted to a graduate school. So Fordham coach Dave Clawson called his former defensive coordinator Dave Cohen, who now has the same job at Delaware.

"With a 3.8 GPA, graduating in four years at Duke, I don't think there were a lot of problems," Keeler said. "We have a graduate school. He went in our graduate school. We have academic requirements that he has to fulfill, and he's lived up to every one of those in terms of class attendance."


Shawn went on to be a linebackers coach at Fordham after being drafted by the Oakland Raiders. His brother, Erik, was a three-year letter winner at linebacker for the Blue Hens, playing from 2005-2008, and was a key defensive player for the 2007 run to the national championship game.

[bison137]

There is absolutely nothing in the PL rules that would have prevented him from playing this year - if he has told the truth about his situation. Either Fordham screwed up or someone is lying.

Many PL players have returned for a 5th year while attending grad school.

[CFBfan]

He's not saying its comparable ,just explaining a prior reference to it in the thread.

which has nothing to do with the point of this thread, LU/Temple put it in here with NO relevance to the issue of the post

[Fordhamanhattan]

Well two top level stars with great academic records being denied a fifth year at Fordham by the Patriot League does have some relevance, at least to Fordham men.

[CFBfan]

Well two top level stars with great academic records being denied a fifth year at Fordham by the Patriot League does have some relevance, at least to Fordham men.

I understand BUT, one case is either a lack of understanding PL rules or deceit and the other makes sense .....not to allow a xfere in for a 5th year as not all U's in the PL offer post grad curriculum.
FU has had an "unfair" advantage for a number of years now vs other PL schools, you can abide by the rules, push for change as FU did with Schollies and have an unfair advantage for a while or leave for another league

[RichH2]

Well two top level stars with great academic records being denied a fifth year at Fordham by the Patriot League does have some relevance, at least to Fordham men.
Relevance. Sure disappointing to fans. As 137 points out tho,Halter's situation cannot be one where PL denied a request for a 5th year. No idea what actually occurred but crystal clear that it was not due to any action by PL.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Well two top level stars with great academic records being denied a fifth year at Fordham by the Patriot League does have some relevance, at least to Fordham men.

Is your problem with the Patriot League, or your own school?

The Shawn Johnson thing at least has some justification, because a school like Lafayette without a grad school cannot do a trick like that and you need your schools on a level playing field. The other, however, is a kid making a justification for his decision that doesn't jibe with the rules of the conference.

In fact both of these issues have one common thread, which is the attempt to throw the Patriot League under the bus.

[bison137]

Well two top level stars with great academic records being denied a fifth year at Fordham by the Patriot League does have some relevance, at least to Fordham men.

He was NOT denied a 5th year by the PL. Either Fordhan screwed up or someone is lying.

[Fordhamanhattan]

I hope you are not suggesting that Mason Halter, Jesuit trained Soldier of Christendom at both St. Ignatius of Cleveland and Fordham, is a dissembler?

[Fordham]

Is your problem with the Patriot League, or your own school?

The Shawn Johnson thing at least has some justification, because a school like Lafayette without a grad school cannot do a trick like that and you need your schools on a level playing field. The other, however, is a kid making a justification for his decision that doesn't jibe with the rules of the conference.

In fact both of these issues have one common thread, which is the attempt to throw the Patriot League under the bus.
He was NOT denied a 5th year by the PL. Either Fordhan screwed up or someone is lying.

Here is what I just posted on our board: http://fordhamfans.smfforfree.com/index.php/topic,9171.msg243365.html#new


Quote from: PhillyNY on Today at 01:55:56 pm (http://fordhamfans.smfforfree.com/index.php/topic,9171.msg243363.html#msg243363)
That has to rank as one of the dumbest rules (and there are many dumb rules) in college sports. It's as goofy as the AI. Maybe goofier.


Agreed, but what bison is saying and what is being said on this thread on AGS (http://www.anygivensaturday.com/showthread.php?171584-Ex-Fordham-star-Mason-Halter-to-start-for-Florida-Gators) is that it's all bs. They are saying that either Mason is lying because he really could have played here but wanted a shot at the big time and is just blaming it on the PL so he sounds like a loyal Fordham man ... or that Fordham screwed up and didn't properly file the paperwork since a sickness like Mason's in his first year is certainly cause for an additional year, per PL guidelines. If he's right, the PL shouldn't be blamed here.

I don't know what the answer is. At the end of the day, I'm going to trust what the coaches have told us since it's not as though this is important enough to interrupt coach during camp about so he can clarify some internet crap.

That said, bison and LFN, you speak with such certainty that it was a screw up on Fordham's part. Are you 100% sure that the PL didn't mess up or wasn't responsible for this or are you guys making assumptions based upon your understanding of PL guidelines in that he should have been granted the year if everything was handled properly? Just asking since your posts make it sound as though you were either involved in this somehow or were able to confirm with PL offices that what you're saying so definitively is true. I don't know the answer and, as I wrote above, I'm not inclined to find out or care all that much. Just more so curious given the certainty with which you both wrote.

[RichH2]

Fordham,
Nonecof us know what actually happened. All that is being said is that what the article reported cannot be true. No one knows the ins and outs of PL by laws better than 137. Under the facts we know,he qualified for a waiver. We are all left to speculate why one wasn't received. Either there are facts we dont know or the facts presented by article are incorrect.
At this point,it would be nice just to marvel at a PL starting there.

[bison137]

Fordham,
Nonecof us know what actually happened. All that is being said is that what the article reported cannot be true. No one knows the ins and outs of PL by laws better than 137. Under the facts we know,he qualified for a waiver. We are all left to speculate why one wasn't received. Either there are facts we dont know or the facts presented by article are incorrect.
At this point,it would be nice just to marvel at a PL starting there.


if he did not receive a waiver, it means one three things:

1. Fordham did not file for a 5th year, or
2. He did not have a season-ending illness and thus the doctor wouldn't provide the needed documentation, or
3. He didn't want to stay at Fordham for a 5th year.

Given how easy it is to get a waiver and how many PL players have received them, I can't think of other explanations.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

if he did not receive a waiver, it means one three things:

1. Fordham did not file for a 5th year, or
2. He did not have a season-ending illness and thus the doctor wouldn't provide the needed documentation, or
3. He didn't want to stay at Fordham for a 5th year.

Given how easy it is to get a waiver and how many PL players have received them, I can't think of other explanations.

Additionally, paperwork would need to be files from Fordham directly to the NCAA. They wouldn't have gone to the league AFAIK unless they had that waiver in hand.

http://www.athletics.vt.edu/compliance/competition/seasons.html

For a student-athlete to receive a Medical Hardship Waiver per Bylaw 14.2.4, the following four conditions must be met:

The student-athlete may not have participated in more than two contests or dates of competition or 20 percent of the team's completed contests/dates of competition.
The injury or illness must occur prior to the completion of the first half of the season.
The injury or illness does not have to occur during practice/competition, but it must be incapacitating.
Appropriate medical documentation must exist and be provided.

[ngineer]

Well two top level stars with great academic records being denied a fifth year at Fordham by the Patriot League does have some relevance, at least to Fordham men.

From what I read, taint the League doin' da denying...

[Fordham]

From what I read, taint the League doin' da denying... Odd imo that you would put so much credence when your only source is one thread on an internet message board.

I still am not completely sure what happened as I would not bother coach or his staff with something this trivial; but someone who played with Mason said that the issue was that he had mono going into freshman year that led to a big weight loss heading into the season. Would he have seen the field if he didn't have the mono/weight loss combo? I have no idea but my guess is 'no' as it's tough for any frosh to break through and play. However, since he was technically available to play for most, if not all of the season, and that's what the denial was based upon. In that version, the proper paperwork was filed and Mason did want to come back to Fordham for his final season of eligibility. And once again, I haven't triple fact checked this info and will not bother coach or his staff about it unless it comes up organically in conversation somehow, in which case I'll relay that conversation.

What's getting lost in all of this is that it's pretty cool to see that a guy who played this past year in the PL is going to be starting in the SEC. As a Penn State fan I wish he had gone there as their left OT position is still so unsettled. I thought there was a chance for that to happen after they used Fordham for practice in the lead up to the Pinstripe Bowl, but unfortunately no.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

What's getting lost in all of this is that it's pretty cool to see that a guy who played this past year in the PL is going to be starting in the SEC. As a Penn State fan I wish he had gone there as their left OT position is still so unsettled. I thought there was a chance for that to happen after they used Fordham for practice in the lead up to the Pinstripe Bowl, but unfortunately no.

Very much so. It is very cool to see him in a P5 program. However the press reports didn't say what you just said. They made it seem like the mean old Patriot League was denying a kid a chance to play.

[bison137]

Odd imo that you would put so much credence when your only source is one thread on an internet message board.





One source is the Patriot League bylaws - which make it very clear that a player in his situation is eligible for a medical hardship waiver - IF his illness was season-ending and IF the proper paperwork was filed. Another source is the fact that other players with illnesses have been granted another year. He was also eligible if he had a season-ending illness. No question.

[Fordham]

Very much so. It is very cool to see him in a P5 program. However the press reports didn't say what you just said. They made it seem like the mean old Patriot League was denying a kid a chance to play.

One source is the Patriot League bylaws - which make it very clear that a player in his situation is eligible for a medical hardship waiver - IF his illness was season-ending and IF the proper paperwork was filed. Another source is the fact that other players with illnesses have been granted another year. He was also eligible if he had a season-ending illness. No question.

So in the scenario I was told, his weight loss from mono kept him from playing in games but not from practicing with the team in his freshman season. PL determines that it was not truly a "season-ending illness" and does not grant him the redshirt that he could have taken at any other school that offers pure redshirting.

Just help me understand how someone was lying if Fordham did submit the paperwork and Mason did want to come back to Fordham but could not since he was denied by the PL? Where's the cover up?

[bison137]

So in the scenario I was told, his weight loss from mono kept him from playing in games but not from practicing with the team in his freshman season. PL determines that it was not truly a "season-ending illness" and does not grant him the redshirt that he could have taken at any other school that offers pure redshirting.

Just help me understand how someone was lying if Fordham did submit the paperwork and Mason did want to come back to Fordham but could not since he was denied by the PL? Where's the cover up?



The cover story would be if he did not have a season-ending illness or injury, as required by the NCAA rules to receive a medical hardship waiver. The PL does not write the NCAA rules. Since the PL normally doesn't check the doctor's reports independently, what you are saying now implies that the Fordham doctor wouldn't certify he had a season-ending illness. Had they filed the correct paperwork, with their doctor certifying that he had a season-ending illness, then he would have got the year. And if he had lost weight to the extent that the doctor thought it would be a problem for him to play, then he would have got the extra year.

The story keeps changing - but it sounds now like Fordham's doctor didn't really think it was season-ending. If so, the PL can't get around that. All that is required under NCAA (and PL) rules) is that the school's application must include "contemporaneous or other appropriate medical documentation,from a physician (a medical doctor) who administered care at the time of the injury or illness, that establishesthe student-athlete’s inability to compete as a result of that injury or illness." If that is submitted, the "redshirt" is automatically granted.

To repeat, other players with illnesses have been granted an extra year - so it clearly is not a league policy. And remember that the original story at the start of this thread was that "a ridiculous Patriot League rule does not allow a fifth year for non football related injuries." That story has clearly been exposed as fiction.

[CFBfan]

The cover story would be if he did not have a season-ending illness or injury, as required by the NCAA rules to receive a medical hardship waiver. The PL does not write the NCAA rules. Since the PL normally doesn't check the doctor's reports independently, what you are saying now implies that the Fordham doctor wouldn't certify he had a season-ending illness. Had they filed the correct paperwork, with their doctor certifying that he had a season-ending illness, then he would have got the year. And if he had lost weight to the extent that the doctor thought it would be a problem for him to play, then he would have got the extra year.

The story keeps changing - but it sounds now like Fordham's doctor didn't really think it was season-ending. If so, the PL can't get around that. To repeat, other players with illnesses have been granted an extra year - so it clearly is not a league policy. And remember that the original story at the start of this thread was that "a ridiculous Patriot League rule does not allow a fifth year for non football related injuries." That story has clearly been exposed as fiction.

In Jan 2009 (year before FU went scholly) masella told me that not only were the going to do that BUT also wanted to get into a "more competitive league like the CAA" Is this a sign that FU is looking to move in that direction???

[bison137]

In Jan 2009 (year before FU went scholly) masella told me that not only were the going to do that BUT also wanted to get into a "more competitive league like the CAA" Is this a sign that FU is looking to move in that direction???



NO, it's not a sign of that. The PL rule on medical hardship waivers is the same as every other conference.

[RichH2]

Medical redshirt rules are the same for everyone. Doctor certifies a season ending event. Player gets a waiver. This player did not. As 137 explained in depth, the fault here lies elsewhere than with PL.
Really should put this issue to bed and move on. Repeating the same facts accomplishes nothing.

[CFBfan]

NO, it's not a sign of that. The PL rule on medical hardship waivers is the same as every other conference.

NOT my point
point is, is FU using this as a catalyst since they did NOT take adv of the rule....are they looking to play it up to serve the purpose of moving on

[CFBfan]

NO, it's not a sign of that. The PL rule on medical hardship waivers is the same as every other conference.

ALSO, input from FU people who would have an idea of what THEIR Univ is doing would be more helpful than YOURS who likely knows little about what is going on behind the curtain at FU. A NO from them would be more meaningful

[Lehigh Football Nation]

In Jan 2009 (year before FU went scholly) masella told me that not only were the going to do that BUT also wanted to get into a "more competitive league like the CAA" Is this a sign that FU is looking to move in that direction???

If so, orchestrating a statement from a player on his way to a P5 program would be a strange way to do it.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

What is known is that a former Fordham player chose to throw the Patriot League under the bus for his decision to transfer. He intimated that he was rejected by the PL office, which appears to not be the case.

[FordhamFan]

I know Mason, graduated not too long ago and Fordham's not too big of a school...and when I found out he was going to Florida (saw him on campus with Florida stuff on a few days before graduation when I was up there) he mentioned that Moorhead and Co did everything they could but it wasn't happening.

Obviously this is not hard fact, coaching staff could have told him it was a no-go after they (or more likely, admin) messed up, I don't know the hard and fast truth..but Moorhead wouldn't let his best OLineman go that easy.

[2ram]

if there was an institutional f'up, it was likely somehow under masella's watch.