Who is a potential dark horse in your conference?

[bjtheflamesfan]

I haven't started a topic in a while but I thought I would pick the brains of my fellow AGSers and see who you think will be a dark horse in the race for your conference title in 2015?

The way I see it in the Big South you have three teams that are for sure competing for the autobid: Charleston Southern, Coastal Carolina and Liberty. Looking at the other 4 teams, I think the dark horse could be found in that group and it would be Presbyterian. I predicted them to finish 5th over on CS, but they do return a lot of experience in a very good defensive unit from last season, which will keep them in a lot of games. The big question I have, is will the offense be able to do what it couldn't do a lot of last yearm and that is simply score points? They lose their starter from last year in McMath, bring back two upperclassmen QBs who had a hard time staying upright, lose their top 2 RBs and their top WR. They will need a lot of underclassmen to step up their game, but if they get those contributions, they could surprise some people

[Professor Chaos]

Western Illinois seems to be a popular pick in the MVFC. It's tough to call a team like YSU a dark horse since they finished the year and spent most of it in the top 25 but they would be another team with the potential to contend in the MVFC with the talent they have and a new (possibly improved) coaching staff.

[centennial]

Western Illinois seems to be a popular pick in the MVFC. It's tough to call a team like YSU a dark horse since they finished the year and spent most of it in the top 25 but they would be another team with the potential to contend in the MVFC with the talent they have and a new (possibly improved) coaching staff.
WIU for me. Outside chance Missouri State. They got a good coach.

[melloware13]

I can't decide between the NY schools from the CAA, but I feel they both have a chance to sneak up on some teams. I would prefer Stony Brook this year since they're off Delaware's schedule.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

I don't think there is a dark horse in the Patriot League. Lehigh, Lafayette, Colgate and Holy Cross all enter the season in basically the same place. I guess Georgetown would be the ultimate dark horse....

[Milktruck74]

I expect the Citadel to ruin somebody's season and Wofford will be much better than advertised.

[RichH2]

For Patriot, pick a name out of a hat after Bison and Rams.

[X-Factor]

YSU for MVFC

[FUBeAR]

I expect the Citadel to ruin somebody's season and Wofford will be much better than advertised.

Not disagreeing with the 1st part as they do have a history of doing that, but El Cid did lose a lot of players & production from their 2014 defense (#2, 4, 6, 8, 10, and 12 Tacklers - funny how they lost all of the 'even' guys, huh? And #10 (on that list) was their leader in Sacks & TFL's - Their 'odd' guys (I think that's probably redundant xsmiley_wix) are pretty dang good though).

Wofford, on the other hand, did NOT lose a lot of PLAYERS from their 2014 D, BUT they did lose A LOT of production in Thomas (Leading Tackler) and Odom (Leader in TFL's and Sacks). So, I don't know if Woffy will be "better than advertised," because with 19-20 starters returning, I would think they should be projected to rather good.

With both of those breeds of dogs, it's really about finding a way to get the ball away from their clock-sucking (that's a compliment) offenses, isn't it?

I just don't think the Bellhops will be the SoCon Dark Horse, unless they have 5 or 6 studs on Defense who step up BIG as 1st year starters.

Woffy, on the other hand, could be that (minor) surprise team that gets their O in a groove and returns to Championship form. Yep - the AnkleBiters are my pick for SoCon 'Dark Horse'

[bonarae]

In the Ivies... I can't think of any clear competitors for the Crimson right now.

[Sammy94]

Northwestern State is my dark horse pick in the SLC

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

WIU from the Valley.

They have a good coach that seems to have instilled some toughness.

[carney2]

For Patriot, pick a name out of a hat after Bison and Rams.

Rams (Fordham) are the odds on pick, but not a lock. After that, the Bison (Bucknell) are not really heads and shoulders over everyone else. I guess no one would call Georgetown a realistic threat to grab the ring, but you can pretty much throw a net over the other five. My guess is that Bucknell and Lafayette probably have the best shot at challenging Fordham.

[KPSUL]

I can't decide between the NY schools from the CAA, but I feel they both have a chance to sneak up on some teams. I would prefer Stony Brook this year since they're off Delaware's schedule.

Five teams can't be called a dark horse in 2015: NOVA, UNH, JMU, Richmond & W&M.

Of the remaining I see the teams most likely to to surprise successfully to be Delaware and Maine in that order.

[TheRevSFA]

Northwestern State is my dark horse pick in the SLC

Agree

[SU DOG]

I think that Western might just be a Dark Horse in the SoCon, but Wofford isn't a bad choice either. Of course, as a homer, I have to take my Bulldogs to be my first choice. Really, except for picking the UTC dominance to continue(Sept 19 there is a huge telling game), it appears that the SoCon may offer lots of surprises this season. I see a much improved conference that will provide some very interesting early matchups. I also can't wait to see how those OOC early games will unfold.

[FUBeAR]

I think that Western might just be a Dark Horse in the SoCon, but Wofford isn't a bad choice either. Of course, as a homer, I have to take my Bulldogs to be my first choice. Really, except for picking the UTC dominance to continue(Sept 19 there is a huge telling game), it appears that the SoCon may offer lots of surprises this season. I see a much improved conference that will provide some very interesting early matchups. I also can't wait to see how those OOC early games will unfold.

With Samford and WCU ranked in numerous polls, are they really 'eligible' for "Dark Horse" status?

"dark horse - noun - a candidate or competitor about whom little is known but who unexpectedly wins or succeeds."


I'm thinking only Furman, Wofford, Citadel, VMI, and Mercer could be possible 'dark horses' by that definition. Maybe not...if the definition for this thread is any team, except the conference favorite...then I would go with Samford as the SoCon Dark Horse, instead of Wofford.

[Mocs123]

I say Furman in the SoCon. I kept expecting them to get it together last season, but the injuries were too much to overcome. I fully expect them to be in the top conference this year and after their record last season, that could make them a dark horse. I think the SoCon to be much better overall as a whole.

Mercer surprised alot of people last year and I expect them to be improved yet again with pretty much everybody back, but I think they are a year away from being one of the top three in the conference.

Wofford is always a potential team to win the conference even when nobody expects them to.

El Cid does always seem to ruin someones season. Just hope its not ours this year

What the SoCon does need to do this year is win their out of conference games. We need to prove we deserve more than three teams in the playoffs.

[Catsfan90]

I can't decide between the NY schools from the CAA, but I feel they both have a chance to sneak up on some teams. I would prefer Stony Brook this year since they're off Delaware's schedule.
I agree with Stony Brook. They gave UNH a huge scare last year and I was super impressed in how much they had improved from 2013.

[BEAR]

I'm going to say ACU.

[PAllen]

While many of my PL brethren are discounting them, I'd say Georgetown. No one in the league is really that overpowering, and no one is looking at Georgetown. They could be 3-0 in the league, and teams would still be looking past them. Plus, they are due.

[Nodak78]

In the BigSky. the hope UND is considered the darkhorse. Defense last year was one of the best and most of them return and more depth has been is added. The offense will be the question. The OL came on the end of the season and should be better this year which will help the QB. RB and WR need to step up for us to make a run in the conference.

[DFW HOYA]

While many of my PL brethren are discounting them, I'd say Georgetown. No one in the league is really that overpowering, and no one is looking at Georgetown. They could be 3-0 in the league, and teams would still be looking past them. Plus, they are due.

If Georgetown made a serious run in 2015 the Morning Call would call for a league-wide investigation and the Express-Times would call for both Coen and Tavani to resign in disgrace. Remember, the last time Georgetown was that close to the PL's first division, the league turned around and added scholarships... xlolx

The real dark horse is Holy Cross. Peter Pujals has the possibility to the best HC quarterback of his generation and the defense is on the verge of some good things. With only one Ivy on the schedule (not Harvard) and five home games in a six week stretch, 2015 could go very well for the Purple, or it could go horribly wrong...as in two 0-5 PL teams playing in week 11 before friends and family at Fitton Field.

[Gangtackle11]

Maine.

[RichH2]

If Georgetown made a serious run in 2015 the Morning Call would call for a league-wide investigation and the Express-Times would call for both Coen and Tavani to resign in disgrace. Remember, the last time Georgetown was that close to the PL's first division, the league turned around and added scholarships... xlolx

The real dark horse is Holy Cross. Peter Pujals has the possibility to the best HC quarterback of his generation and the defense is on the verge of some good things. With only one Ivy on the schedule (not Harvard) and five home games in a six week stretch, 2015 could go very well for the Purple, or it could go horribly wrong...as in two 0-5 PL teams playing in week 11 before friends and family at Fitton Field.
Cross is as good a pick as any. They have some very good skills starters. But,little speed and even less depth. That said,every team without exceptions has "buts". Lehigh probably the most and Bucknell the least.

[SU DOG]

With Samford and WCU ranked in numerous polls, are they really 'eligible' for "Dark Horse" status?

"dark horse - noun - a candidate or competitor about whom little is known but who unexpectedly wins or succeeds."


I'm thinking only Furman, Wofford, Citadel, VMI, and Mercer could be possible 'dark horses' by that definition. Maybe not...if the definition for this thread is any team, except the conference favorite...then I would go with Samford as the SoCon Dark Horse, instead of Wofford.

IMO, UTC is such a prohibitive favorite to win that ANY other SoCon Team would have to be considered a Dark Horse. Samford and Western may be ranked in some polls, but I have yet to see any projection that doesn't have UTC picked to win. Any other team would certainly fit the "unexpectedly wins" part of the definition. Your point is well taken, however, and probably technically is more accurate.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

It's not that dark a horse but this is all we got.

http://content.sportslogos.net/logos/30/626/full/18nrh839ckeuifgkktzhktzjv.png

[Nodak78]

It's not that dark a horse but this is all we got.

http://content.sportslogos.net/logos/30/626/full/18nrh839ckeuifgkktzhktzjv.png


If Poly survives there schedule, they definitely Won't be a dark horse. tough schedule for them.

[Ivytalk]

Harvard and Dartmouth have to be the co-favorites this year. Dark horse? Yale.

[McNeese75]

I'm going to say ACU.

I agree with this one, Northwestern State MEH

[BisonFan02]

It's not that dark a horse but this is all we got.

http://content.sportslogos.net/logos/30/626/full/18nrh839ckeuifgkktzhktzjv.png

I was totally going to go that route...except I was going to say UND because we have no ****ing clue what they are....they could potentially be a dark horse...literally. xlolx

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Cross is as good a pick as any. They have some very good skills starters. But,little speed and even less depth. That said,every team without exceptions has "buts". Lehigh probably the most and Bucknell the least.

Thinking about it I'll go with Colgate. Hunt will be in his second year so he should be much more comfortable in his role. If the 'Gate can get some steady QB play and a RB steps up they could surprise. Like Lehigh, their defense was horrific 2-3 years ago. In fact, they got extremely undersized along the DL as well. Last season the Raiders showed some progress in that department. I think that will continue thus putting the fate of the season in the offenses hand. Another key for Colgate is regaining their home field advantage. Prior to these last two years, Hamilton was a brutally difficult place to play. Especially when league play really gets rolling...

Lehigh and Colgate have followed very similar paths recently. Both have been plagued with terrible defense and major coaching changes. Interesting for arguably the two most successful programs in the PL over its history...

[32counter]

Billy and Mary in CAA.

[lionsrking2]

Some may not consider Central Arkansas a dark horse but they would be my pick in the SLC, followed by Northwestern State. ACU would get consideration but they aren't eligible.

[Milktruck74]

El Cid is not going to run the tables, but someone will have a loss to our boys in light blue that will keep them out of the playoffs this year.... as far as Wofford goes, some early polls have them at 6th or 7th in the conference....two words lead me to believe that won't happen: MIKE AYERS. The guy gets a ton out of his kids.

[Catatonic]

Some may not consider Central Arkansas a dark horse but they would be my pick in the SLC, followed by Northwestern State. ACU would get consideration but they aren't eligible.

We like to think of ourselves as the "Spoiler" of the SLC.

[clenz]

Western Illinois seems to be a popular pick in the MVFC. It's tough to call a team like YSU a dark horse since they finished the year and spent most of it in the top 25 but they would be another team with the potential to contend in the MVFC with the talent they have and a new (possibly improved) coaching staff.


WIU for me. Outside chance Missouri State. They got a good coach.
I don't know if I can call WIU a dark horse. They seem pretty trendy as a pick - were last year as well. If they can't get it together this year I think their trend-ability will fall back. The problem for WIU, and anyone trying to move from the bottom half to the middle half, even the middle to the top third, is the top of the conference has gotten SO strong it's so tough to move.

YSU - I'm not buying into Pelini being a savior to get them past where they were just yet. He's taking the Spack approach of "let's bring in every FBS transfer we can, regardless of legal issues, hope they fit in an make waves on the field" - as is proof with bringing in a guy facing something like 4 or 5 felony charges. They might be vastly improved...maybe. Once Pelini does have success at YSU he's gone in a New York minute.

MSU would definitely meet the dark horse definition. The issue I have with MSU is I know the guy running the offense down there. You want to know what MSU's offense is going to look like? Watch any UNI game from the last 5 years...but with significantly less talented players to bridge play calling gap and play making ability. Here a quick glimpse of it

1st and 10: Shotgun zone hand off to the running back

2nd and 8: Shotgun draw/counter

3rd and 7: 1 of two things...Shot gun dive or shot gun 3 wide with a TE with the twin side running a 15-20 yard out/curl and a skinny post that doesn't start to post util 15-20 yards down field. The TE will run some weird wiggle route to the sideline or dead middle of the field about 3 inches from the LOS. The WR on the other side will run a flag post or post flag 15-20 yards down field and the RB will either stick in to block or chip and then run 3 steps after the chip and turn around and wait for a dump off.

Punt or hope you get lucky and someone makes a play

If someone makes a play the next plays will look like this

1st and 10: see the third down pass play from the previous play

2nd and 10: see previous play

3rd and 10: draw/off tackle

4th and 8+: punt


It's pretty damn tough to be a dark horse in the MVFC. ISUb did it last year but they likely fall back this year. SIU is close to fitting the dark horse potential but I don't know if they'll get it together this year or not.

As much as I've not said it before, the Dakota's coming in REALLY pushed the top of the league and the existing league wasn't ready for that. UNI looks to have rebounded from that initial jolt and honestly is right there with NDSU talent wise (I know that's blasphemy but it's pretty damn true). SIU happened to lose Kill at that same time and is struggling to get the tires out of the mud. Illinois State landed a massive hit in Roberson, but other than him they've consistently been a 4thish place team - even with Matt Brown who holds pretty much every ISU passing record. Maybe Spack and turn his Roberson success into success with other transfers...or into a bigger job.


This is why people struggle to see the SoCon rising back to a "power conference", even though SoCon fans will fight that time after time after time. I know they've lost teams before and recovered. The issue is you lose so many, and the subdivision loses enough of them and you eventually run out of West Virginias and East Carolinas to replace Maryland and the SEC schools that left 80 years ago.
You run out of App State's and Marshall's coming in to replace West Virginia and East Carolina.
You run out of Georgia Southerns to replace Marshalls.
Eventually you start replacing Georgia Southerns and App States with Elon's and Samfords.
You start replacing Elons with start up's like Mercers.

On the flip side, since 1995 the MVFC has added YSU (whom as much as I "dismiss" is still better than about 75-80% of the FCS any given year), and WKU (whom though they left did win a title out of the conference). WKU was replaced with SDSU and NDSU and USD. So the MVFC hasn't really had to "replace". Rather they've added teams that are top half teams/top 10 teams (sans USD).

[tenNesseeCat]

In the SoCon, Samford and WCU have the potential to win the conference, but I wouldn't really consider either as a dark horse. Furman can wear that title for now. I think they gained a lot of experience last year. Combine that with getting and staying healthy, and they should be very solid. I don't think anyone would be surprised to see Wofford/Ayers in the hunt come November. Mercer would be my final consideration. They played some good teams close last year, and have pretty much everyone back. They have some really good players, but it will be their progression as a whole that will pace how far they can go.

[Lehigh'98]

In the Ivies... I can't think of any clear competitors for the Crimson right now.

Columbia with Bagnoli. ;)

[FUBeAR]

This is why people struggle to see the SoCon rising back to a "power conference"...You start replacing Elons with start up's like Mercers.

Interested in the intelligent/well-informed opinions of SoCon Posters on this topic, if any care to reply...

Show of 'hands?' Which school is better for SoCon Football - Elon or Mercer?

BTW - Mercer finished 2nd to Chatt in the 2014-15 SoCon Commissioner's Cup (All Men's Sports) Standings edged out by 0.000170068027210979 points, in their 1st year in the Conference. It's not ALL about Football...or the Hokey-Pokey...as much as we would like it to be.

[PaladinFan]

In the SoCon, Samford and WCU have the potential to win the conference, but I wouldn't really consider either as a dark horse. Furman can wear that title for now. I think they gained a lot of experience last year. Combine that with getting and staying healthy, and they should be very solid. I don't think anyone would be surprised to see Wofford/Ayers in the hunt come November. Mercer would be my final consideration. They played some good teams close last year, and have pretty much everyone back. They have some really good players, but it will be their progression as a whole that will pace how far they can go.

I hate to be a homer pick (I would have picked WCU last season), but Furman seems most poised to be a "dark horse."

I think Furman is the biggest question mark going into the 2015 SoCon season. If they can keep Reese Hannon upright, I think they have the potential to have the largest jump in improvement from 2014.

Whatever happens this season, Furman has got to do whatever they can to keep their players in the lineup. Full speed, I think we will be pretty good. Not sure I endure another season like last year's, though.

[The Yo Show]

My pick is YSU with WIU being my close second (and I admit I am biased towards YSU). Not to get off topic, but clenz, im not so sure Bo pelini will be gone so soon. Granted I'm not saying that he will be around for longer than 4 years (as that's when his buyout ends is in 2019).

However, if he wanted a better position, he would have just taken any of the three P5 head coaching jobs he was offered last year (Pitt, Wisconsin, and Oregon State). I wouldnt be suprised if he stayed till 2019, and left immediately after.

[Smitty]

I would have to guess Furman, I would have Mercer as the dark horse for doing well but not winning overall.

[clenz]

Interested in the intelligent/well-informed opinions of SoCon Posters on this topic, if any care to reply...

Show of 'hands?' Which school is better for SoCon Football - Elon or Mercer?

BTW - Mercer finished 2nd to Chatt in the 2014-15 SoCon Commissioner's Cup (All Men's Sports) Standings edged out by 0.000170068027210979 points, in their 1st year in the Conference. It's not ALL about Football...or the Hokey-Pokey...as much as we would like it to be.
This FCS topic doesn't have anything to do with the other sports in your conference.

The SoCon, as it stands right now, is solidly down the line in terms of FCS power rankings. Just because you have 1 team (Chatty) that will be highly rated doesn't mean your conference is what it was 3 years ago. It simply isn't. Maybe you haven't followed the FCS long enough to understand because Mercer is newer but the SoCon used to be a top 1 or 2 conference that was pretty much a lock for AT LEAST 2 if not 3 bids every year.

That's not the case anymore.

Quit being so defensive about these things.

[PaladinFan]

This FCS topic doesn't have anything to do with the other sports in your conference.

The SoCon, as it stands right now, is solidly down the line in terms of FCS power rankings. Just because you have 1 team (Chatty) that will be highly rated doesn't mean your conference is what it was 3 years ago. It simply isn't. Maybe you haven't followed the FCS long enough to understand because Mercer is newer but the SoCon used to be a top 1 or 2 conference that was pretty much a lock for AT LEAST 2 if not 3 bids every year.

That's not the case anymore.

Quit being so defensive about these things.

I'll let him speak for himself, but Bear is pretty well familiar with the SoCon. Mercer is a much better SoCon fit than Elon, IMO.

There's no question the SoCon is down from where it was. This is a major transitional period. Not the premier conference it once was, but I imagine they'll be back soon enough.

[McNeese75]

I would be one of those, lol. I think Central Arkansas is a contender not a dark horse.

[BisonFan02]

My pick is YSU with WIU being my close second (and I admit I am biased towards YSU). Not to get off topic, but clenz, im not so sure Bo pelini will be gone so soon. Granted I'm not saying that he will be around for longer than 4 years (as that's when his buyout ends is in 2019).

However, if he wanted a better position, he would have just taken any of the three P5 head coaching jobs he was offered last year (Pitt, Wisconsin, and Oregon State). I wouldnt be suprised if he stayed till 2019, and left immediately after.

Can gods gift to FCS college football YSU be a dark horse at the same time? :D

[BEAR]

I would be one of those, lol. I think Central Arkansas is a contender not a dark horse.

I agree. UCA averaged 41 pts per game last year on offense. Won the conference in 2012. Honestly UCA has been right on the cuff of winning it again just needed a defense. Might have a decent one this year. Gotta be better than the past two years for sure! xlolx

[clenz]

My pick is YSU with WIU being my close second (and I admit I am biased towards YSU). Not to get off topic, but clenz, im not so sure Bo pelini will be gone so soon. Granted I'm not saying that he will be around for longer than 4 years (as that's when his buyout ends is in 2019).

However, if he wanted a better position, he would have just taken any of the three P5 head coaching jobs he was offered last year (Pitt, Wisconsin, and Oregon State). I wouldnt be suprised if he stayed till 2019, and left immediately after.
Was he actually offered those jobs?

[FUBeAR]

This FCS topic doesn't have anything to do with the other sports in your conference. - Correct - Neither does the Hokey-Pokey

Maybe you haven't followed the FCS long enough... - I have followed and been actively involved with I-AA/FCS Football as a Player, Coach, and Fan since 1982, when the SoCon was reclassified to I-AA. So..I think that adds up to 33 years...Is that long enough?

Quit being so defensive about these things. - I appreciate your 'suggestion,' but any time I happen to see a comment that I feel is inaccurate about Mercer Football or is an unfair characterization of Mercer Football, then I will comment; until the Admins remove me from the Board, if they choose to do so. I would never be so presumptuous as to direct you regarding what you should/should not comment on nor how you should comment, but if you simply will refrain from making inaccurate statements or unfair characterizations regarding Mercer Football, then I would not comment on them. That's fair enough, right? Besides that, in this particular case, I certainly fail to see how asking others for their opinion is being "defensive."



Responses in bold above

[The Yo Show]

Can gods gift to FCS college football YSU be a dark horse at the same time? :D

Taken as the the usage of dark horse is (most likely of unlikely candidates), then yes. Theres no denying the fact YSU has been middle of the road in the valley with flashes of brilliance as of late. Having not made playoffs or winning the conference in so long means they fit this bill.

After all, they are still not proven and therefore an unlikely candidate vis a vis a dark horse.

If YSU actually does well this season, then they are no longer a dark horse.

[Nickels]

Northwestern State is my dark horse pick in the SLC
xnodx

[clenz]

Responses in bold above
The funny thing?

Nothing I've said about the SoCon in this thread - or Mercer in the other thread - is inaccurate.

You're reaction is very similar to that of YSU fans from a couple years ago to my posts. If you ask them now if I was accurate at that point, no matter how hard they fought me, they'd tell you I was pretty damn accurate.

[The Yo Show]

Was he actually offered those jobs?

Yes. Media in Youngstown had reported on those and began writing off the "rumor" that football scoops perpetuated that he was coming to Youngstown.

But Pittsburgh media also reported he was offered the Pitt job (and since part of what he wanted was to have his kid go to mooney in youngstown, if he really wanted to be in the area and coach at a big school he would have gone to pitt. IMO it was the best of both worlds for him. Close to home and still a P5 conference head coaching position). Everyone thought when the pitt job came up, we had immediately lost him if we did actually have a chance in the first place. Im still suprised he came back.

Maybe he was just tired of being in the national spotlight and thats why? I have no idea why he did come back to be honest.

[OL FU]

I don't know if I can call WIU a dark horse. They seem pretty trendy as a pick - were last year as well. If they can't get it together this year I think their trend-ability will fall back. The problem for WIU, and anyone trying to move from the bottom half to the middle half, even the middle to the top third, is the top of the conference has gotten SO strong it's so tough to move.

YSU - I'm not buying into Pelini being a savior to get them past where they were just yet. He's taking the Spack approach of "let's bring in every FBS transfer we can, regardless of legal issues, hope they fit in an make waves on the field" - as is proof with bringing in a guy facing something like 4 or 5 felony charges. They might be vastly improved...maybe. Once Pelini does have success at YSU he's gone in a New York minute.

MSU would definitely meet the dark horse definition. The issue I have with MSU is I know the guy running the offense down there. You want to know what MSU's offense is going to look like? Watch any UNI game from the last 5 years...but with significantly less talented players to bridge play calling gap and play making ability. Here a quick glimpse of it

1st and 10: Shotgun zone hand off to the running back

2nd and 8: Shotgun draw/counter

3rd and 7: 1 of two things...Shot gun dive or shot gun 3 wide with a TE with the twin side running a 15-20 yard out/curl and a skinny post that doesn't start to post util 15-20 yards down field. The TE will run some weird wiggle route to the sideline or dead middle of the field about 3 inches from the LOS. The WR on the other side will run a flag post or post flag 15-20 yards down field and the RB will either stick in to block or chip and then run 3 steps after the chip and turn around and wait for a dump off.

Punt or hope you get lucky and someone makes a play

If someone makes a play the next plays will look like this

1st and 10: see the third down pass play from the previous play

2nd and 10: see previous play

3rd and 10: draw/off tackle

4th and 8+: punt


It's pretty damn tough to be a dark horse in the MVFC. ISUb did it last year but they likely fall back this year. SIU is close to fitting the dark horse potential but I don't know if they'll get it together this year or not.

As much as I've not said it before, the Dakota's coming in REALLY pushed the top of the league and the existing league wasn't ready for that. UNI looks to have rebounded from that initial jolt and honestly is right there with NDSU talent wise (I know that's blasphemy but it's pretty damn true). SIU happened to lose Kill at that same time and is struggling to get the tires out of the mud. Illinois State landed a massive hit in Roberson, but other than him they've consistently been a 4thish place team - even with Matt Brown who holds pretty much every ISU passing record. Maybe Spack and turn his Roberson success into success with other transfers...or into a bigger job.


This is why people struggle to see the SoCon rising back to a "power conference", even though SoCon fans will fight that time after time after time. I know they've lost teams before and recovered. The issue is you lose so many, and the subdivision loses enough of them and you eventually run out of West Virginias and East Carolinas to replace Maryland and the SEC schools that left 80 years ago.
You run out of App State's and Marshall's coming in to replace West Virginia and East Carolina.
You run out of Georgia Southerns to replace Marshalls.
Eventually you start replacing Georgia Southerns and App States with Elon's and Samfords.
You start replacing Elons with start up's like Mercers.

On the flip side, since 1995 the MVFC has added YSU (whom as much as I "dismiss" is still better than about 75-80% of the FCS any given year), and WKU (whom though they left did win a title out of the conference). WKU was replaced with SDSU and NDSU and USD. So the MVFC hasn't really had to "replace". Rather they've added teams that are top half teams/top 10 teams (sans USD).

I have kinda stayed out of these conversations mainly because predicting the future long term is, well, difficult. Also, because obviously with the loss of ASU and GSU we aren't nearly as strong of a conference. But long term, the capability of getting to power conference standard is more than doable. Whether we will or not remains to be seen. First, long time bottom dwellers, Chattanooga (especially) and Western have stepped up the game. Can they continue it, who knows but Chattanooga is there now and Western seems to be on the cusp. Two teams that would not have been in the conversation 5 years ago. Wofford has slipped the last two years, but there is no reason to think that will be a long term issue. Furman while certainly falling has been through most of its history one of the better teams in the division. Can we get back, well we are spending the money and seemingly making the effort. Once again, who knows what the future will provide. Samford has been on the cusp forever so maybe the new coach will put them over the top. Mercer, is still a great unknown, but they are certainly doing what they need to from a support function.

The argument of where the Socon is now is easy, we aren't what we used to be but that isn't just because GSU and ASU left. It's because some of the better teams of the past haven't performed. The discussion of where we will be in the future can go which ever way a person thinks it needs to go. While we may not get back to where we were, there is no reason to simply dismiss the possibility. But time will tell.

As I mentioned on a different board, even though we have a diminished reputation now, we really haven't performed horribly badly in the playoffs the last two years with out GSU and ASU. Chatt went as far as many other conference teams last year and while it is difficult to assess, Furman arguably gave NDSU the best game in 2013 (which was still a pretty bad blow out). Personally, I think this year we will have a couple or three quality teams in the playoffs, but as I said repeatedly in the thread time will tell. I think the only thing that can really be said at the moment is that the MVFC is heads above everybody else. xnodx

[PaladinFan]

The funny thing?

Nothing I've said about the SoCon in this thread - or Mercer in the other thread - is inaccurate.

You're reaction is very similar to that of YSU fans from a couple years ago to my posts. If you ask them now if I was accurate at that point, no matter how hard they fought me, they'd tell you I was pretty damn accurate.

IMO, the reasons go deeper than just rudimentary conversation about the programs. Remember, the deep south, unlike many of the other areas of the county, has seen an influx of startup programs and reclassification in recent years.

Just for comparison, South Carolina has roughly 4.5 million people and has nine division 1 football schools. Iowa has slightly less population, but only has four (one of which does not give scholarships). Easier to recruit with monumentally less competition.

I've mentioned this before, but just talking about the SoCon "footprint" of Alabama, Tennessee, Georgia, Florida, South Carolina, and North Carolina, in the last 10-15 years you have seen an explosion in college football. There are numerous teams that previously never fielded a team at the FCS level (Kennesaw State, Mercer, Coastal Carolina, ETSU (back again), Campbell, etc.

Go a step further, and you have a bunch of FBS teams as well (Georgia State, UNCC, South Alabama, FAU, FIU, etc.) Add to that schools like Presbyterian, App State, and Georgia Southern that have reclassified.

Just off that list, that may be over 800 more football scholarship spots just in the deep south (I may be forgetting some) than there was just a 10-15 years ago. While it's easy to say "the SoCon is not as strong" it also overlooks the unbelievable competition for recruiting players. I do not think it is a coincidence that the SoCon has slipped in pretty much conjunction with the explosion of competitive programs at this level. New entrants are coming into the market almost yearly.

[clenz]

I have kinda stayed out of these conversations mainly because predicting the future long term is, well, difficult. Also, because obviously with the loss of ASU and GSU we aren't nearly as strong of a conference. But long term, the capability of getting to power conference standard is more than doable. Whether we will or not remains to be seen. First, long time bottom dwellers, Chattanooga (especially) and Western have stepped up the game. Can they continue it, who knows but Chattanooga is there now and Western seems to be on the cusp. Two teams that would not have been in the conversation 5 years ago. Wofford has slipped the last two years, but there is no reason to think that will be a long term issue. Furman while certainly falling has been through most of its history one of the better teams in the division. Can we get back, well we are spending the money and seemingly making the effort. Once again, who knows what the future will provide. Samford has been on the cusp forever so maybe the new coach will put them over the top. Mercer, is still a great unknown, but they are certainly doing what they need to from a support function.

The argument of where the Socon is now is easy, we aren't what we used to be but that isn't just because GSU and ASU left. It's because some of the better teams of the past haven't performed. The discussion of where we will be in the future can go which ever way a person thinks it needs to go. While we may not get back to where we were, there is no reason to simply dismiss the possibility. But time will tell.

As I mentioned on a different board, even though we have a diminished reputation now, we really haven't performed horribly badly in the playoffs the last two years with out GSU and ASU. Chatt went as far as many other conference teams last year and while it is difficult to assess, Furman arguably gave NDSU the best game in 2013 (which was still a pretty bad blow out). Personally, I think this year we will have a couple or three quality teams in the playoffs, but as I said repeatedly in the thread time will tell. I think the only thing that can really be said at the moment is that the MVFC is heads above everybody else. xnodx
I'm not saying years down the road it can't/won't return.

It certainly is cyclical with what conferences are on top. It's just tough to see the top 2 teams in the SoCon leave and get replaced with start up programs and at the same time see the other teams that were "on top" in that conference floundering to maintain high levels as well. Of course if the top teams leave middle/bottom teams will replace them in the top, even if they aren't actually any better than they were before. That's just how tihngs naturally work

I don't believe the MVFC will be on top forever. However, as of now it's completely reasonable to think that the SoCon is behind the MVFC, Big Sky, Southland and even CAA.

[walliver]

It's hard to really pick a "dark horse" in the SoCon since the conference is currently "upside down" from it recent tradition. Traditional bottom-dwellers Chatty and WCU are now at the top of the list. Of the two teams most likely to surprise people this year, the Traveler's Rest Horses aren't exactly dark, with a history of three championship games visits, and my Terriers generally outperformed GSU for the first decade of this millenium, so I really wouldn't think of them as dark horses.

Of the three teams I would consider Dark Horse Eligible, VMI, the Citadel, and Mercer - I would go with Mercer. They will now have actual upperclassmen on the team and may surprise a few people. On the other hand, very few teams will overlook them this year anyway.


As for the state of the SoCon, I don't think we're in any real trouble beyond the short-term.

After Wofford replaced Marshall, the SoCon's SOS may have fallen, but the GPA and tooth-count increased. ASU, GSU and FU were able to carry the conference while Wofford went through the D-I transition (joining the conference in our 3d year of the transition). Although we have no NC's, we have had 4 football championships (with 2 at0large bids) and 4 basketball championships, so I think the SoCon did OK.

The next two moves, Elon for VMI and Samford for ETSU , were basically lateral moves that had little long term effect. Sammy was an improvement over the later ETSU teams.

Of the latest moves, VMI for Elon was a slight step back, but Elon had 0 football championships and only 1 at-large bid during their stay.
ETSU for ASU is a big step down.
Mercer for GSU is, in my unenlightened opinion, not as big a long term drop as many suspect. We are weaker in the short term, but Mercer has the financial ability and will to field a very competitive athletic program.

The real problem causing an appearance of general weakness in the SoCon is the marked under-performance the last few years by Wofford and Furman. If these two programs can step back up to what we know they can achieve, UTC remain strong, and Samford and Mercer continue to progress, we will be back at the top very quickly. We shouldn't forget that 4 of the 8 current SoCon teams have been in the FCS playoffs in the last 3 years.

[clenz]

I have kinda stayed out of these conversations mainly because predicting the future long term is, well, difficult. Also, because obviously with the loss of ASU and GSU we aren't nearly as strong of a conference. But long term, the capability of getting to power conference standard is more than doable. Whether we will or not remains to be seen. First, long time bottom dwellers, Chattanooga (especially) and Western have stepped up the game. Can they continue it, who knows but Chattanooga is there now and Western seems to be on the cusp. Two teams that would not have been in the conversation 5 years ago. Wofford has slipped the last two years, but there is no reason to think that will be a long term issue. Furman while certainly falling has been through most of its history one of the better teams in the division. Can we get back, well we are spending the money and seemingly making the effort. Once again, who knows what the future will provide. Samford has been on the cusp forever so maybe the new coach will put them over the top. Mercer, is still a great unknown, but they are certainly doing what they need to from a support function.

The argument of where the Socon is now is easy, we aren't what we used to be but that isn't just because GSU and ASU left. It's because some of the better teams of the past haven't performed. The discussion of where we will be in the future can go which ever way a person thinks it needs to go. While we may not get back to where we were, there is no reason to simply dismiss the possibility. But time will tell.

As I mentioned on a different board, even though we have a diminished reputation now, we really haven't performed horribly badly in the playoffs the last two years with out GSU and ASU. Chatt went as far as many other conference teams last year and while it is difficult to assess, Furman arguably gave NDSU the best game in 2013 (which was still a pretty bad blow out). Personally, I think this year we will have a couple or three quality teams in the playoffs, but as I said repeatedly in the thread time will tell. I think the only thing that can really be said at the moment is that the MVFC is heads above everybody else. xnodx
I'm not saying years down the road it can't/won't return.

It certainly is cyclical with what conferences are on top. It's just tough to see the top 2 teams in the SoCon leave and get replaced with start up programs and at the same time see the other teams that were "on top" in that conference floundering to maintain high levels as well. Of course if the top teams leave middle/bottom teams will replace them in the top, even if they aren't actually any better than they were before. That's just how tihngs naturally work

I don't believe the MVFC will be on top forever. However, as of now it's completely reasonable to think that the SoCon is behind the MVFC, Big Sky, Southland and even CAA.

Look at the populations of the recruiting grounds for the MVFC and SoCon. Florida and Georgia alone when combined is greater than Minnesota, Iowa, ND, SD, Nebraska, Wisconin and Illinois (sans Chicago metro) combined by a pretty significant margin. Hell, Florida alone I think is greater than all of them. Florida is 19.some odd million. In the MVFC we have:

Minnesota - 5m
Iowa - 3m
ND - 740k
SD - 840k
Nebraska - 1.8m
Wisconin 5.7m
Illinois - 12m (sans Chicago metro you're about 2.8m)

That's what? 19.8 Million in the entire recruiting footprint...28 if you include Chicago. Florida and Georgia alone are over 30 combined. I certainly understand there's more competition, but populations aren't even close for recruiting footprints.

[OL FU]

I'm not saying years down the road it can't/won't return.

It certainly is cyclical with what conferences are on top. It's just tough to see the top 2 teams in the SoCon leave and get replaced with start up programs and at the same time see the other teams that were "on top" in that conference floundering to maintain high levels as well. Of course if the top teams leave middle/bottom teams will replace them in the top, even if they aren't actually any better than they were before. That's just how tihngs naturally work

I don't believe the MVFC will be on top forever. However, as of now it's completely reasonable to think that the SoCon is behind the MVFC, Big Sky, Southland and even CAA.

I think that is right. But I am more optimistic than pessimistic. In my opinion the return of the South Carolina schools return to prominence is related more to the increased competition on our state at the FCS level.

[The Cats]

While I project them to win only one conference game (VMI) in 2015, Mercer has the potential to be a real dark horse in the SoCon. Will they live up to their potential? Only time will tell.

They surprised almost everyone with their play last season in conference, and with a few breaks this season, they may truly surprise a few this season with a few more SoCon wins. Don't overlook or underestimate the Bears.

[chattownmocs]

I'm not saying years down the road it can't/won't return.

It certainly is cyclical with what conferences are on top. It's just tough to see the top 2 teams in the SoCon leave and get replaced with start up programs and at the same time see the other teams that were "on top" in that conference floundering to maintain high levels as well. Of course if the top teams leave middle/bottom teams will replace them in the top, even if they aren't actually any better than they were before. That's just how tihngs naturally work

I don't believe the MVFC will be on top forever. However, as of now it's completely reasonable to think that the SoCon is behind the MVFC, Big Sky, Southland and even CAA.

Look at the populations of the recruiting grounds for the MVFC and SoCon. Florida and Georgia alone when combined is greater than Minnesota, Iowa, ND, SD, Nebraska, Wisconin and Illinois (sans Chicago metro) combined by a pretty significant margin. Hell, Florida alone I think is greater than all of them. Florida is 19.some odd million. In the MVFC we have:

Minnesota - 5m
Iowa - 3m
ND - 740k
SD - 840k
Nebraska - 1.8m
Wisconin 5.7m
Illinois - 12m (sans Chicago metro you're about 2.8m)

That's what? 19.8 Million in the entire recruiting footprint...28 if you include Chicago. Florida and Georgia alone are over 30 combined. I certainly understand there's more competition, but populations aren't even close for recruiting footprints.

That's exactly right and this is why Chattanooga is the premiere FCS recruiting program in the nation right now. Because they are the premiere recruiting program in the southeast. That's why they mauled indiana state, that's why they outgained New Hampshire by around 250 yards( and were better in at least 15 of 22 positions) something Illinois state certainly didn't look to be. And that's why they are the front runner to win the national title in 2015. In my humble opinion, of course.

[clenz]

That's exactly right and this is why Chattanooga is the premiere FCS recruiting program in the nation right now. Because they are the premiere recruiting program in the southeast. That's why they mauled indiana state, that's why they outgained New Hampshire by around 250 yards( and were better in at least 15 of 22 positions) something Illinois state certainly didn't look to be. And that's why they are the front runner to win the national title in 2015. In my humble opinion, of course.
Don't change, buddy

[FUBeAR]

PLEASE overlook AND underestimate the Bears.

FIFY xthumbsupx

[FUBeAR]

Don't change, buddy

Hey - we finally agree on something...I would add EVER to that though

[tenNesseeCat]

Minnesota - 5m
Iowa - 3m
ND - 740k
SD - 840k
Nebraska - 1.8m
Wisconin 5.7m
Illinois - 12m (sans Chicago metro you're about 2.8m)

That's what? 19.8 Million in the entire recruiting footprint...28 if you include Chicago. Florida and Georgia alone are over 30 combined. I certainly understand there's more competition, but populations aren't even close for recruiting footprints.

Don't forget Indiana at 6+m and Ohio at 11+m. If the SoCon gets to/has to include Florida in their footprint.
States where SoCon teams reside: NC, SC, VA, AL, TN, GA with a population of around 44m, and around 63 D1 FB programs. States where MVFC teams reside: ND, SD, IA, IL, OH, IN, MO with a population of around 42m, and around 32 D1 FB programs. So the SoCon has roughly 690 thousand people per D1 FB program. Where the MVFC is at a nice 1.31m people per D1 program. That's nearly double. I agree with what some of the Furman guys are saying. Not only do the big dogs of the area get their pick (bama, auburn, UGA, UT, UNC, USC, VT, ECU), but it's a hot bed for everyone. Not many of those schools are going to SD, ND, IA, MO, or IN to court prospects. When I lived in NC I had Duke, UNC, NCSU, Wake, ASU, WCU, NC A&T, UNC-Charlotte, Wofford, and Furman within 2.5 to 3 hrs drive. Here in TN I have WCU, UT, UTC, ETSU, Vandy, TN Tech, TN State, MTSU in the same drive window. The point is, the south loves football, it's obvious by the saturation of the college football market down here. One of the reasons I love it.

[lionsrking2]

I'm not saying years down the road it can't/won't return.

It certainly is cyclical with what conferences are on top. It's just tough to see the top 2 teams in the SoCon leave and get replaced with start up programs and at the same time see the other teams that were "on top" in that conference floundering to maintain high levels as well. Of course if the top teams leave middle/bottom teams will replace them in the top, even if they aren't actually any better than they were before. That's just how tihngs naturally work

I don't believe the MVFC will be on top forever. However, as of now it's completely reasonable to think that the SoCon is behind the MVFC, Big Sky, Southland and even CAA.

Look at the populations of the recruiting grounds for the MVFC and SoCon. Florida and Georgia alone when combined is greater than Minnesota, Iowa, ND, SD, Nebraska, Wisconin and Illinois (sans Chicago metro) combined by a pretty significant margin. Hell, Florida alone I think is greater than all of them. Florida is 19.some odd million. In the MVFC we have:

Minnesota - 5m
Iowa - 3m
ND - 740k
SD - 840k
Nebraska - 1.8m
Wisconin 5.7m
Illinois - 12m (sans Chicago metro you're about 2.8m)

That's what? 19.8 Million in the entire recruiting footprint...28 if you include Chicago. Florida and Georgia alone are over 30 combined. I certainly understand there's more competition, but populations aren't even close for recruiting footprints.

Competition for players negates just about any advantage gained from having a more heavily populated recruiting footprint. Taking our state and our footprint for example, not only are there 11 D-I programs in Louisiana, but just about every FBS conference has multiple schools who make Louisiana, Mississippi, Texas, Alabama and Florida a major part of their recruiting efforts. In addition, if there are outside FCS schools with coaches on their staff with ties here, they will recruit here as well, not to mention competition from JUCOS who sell kids on idea of going "big time" if they go JC for a couple of years. Add in academic issues and the pool of available talent isn't so big once you filter down the food chain. There are still good players who slip through but nowhere near like it used to be 20-30 years ago when it was pretty easy to hide players.

[PaladinFan]

While I project them to win only one conference game (VMI) in 2015, Mercer has the potential to be a real dark horse in the SoCon. Will they live up to their potential? Only time will tell.

They surprised almost everyone with their play last season in conference, and with a few breaks this season, they may truly surprise a few this season with a few more SoCon wins. Don't overlook or underestimate the Bears.

Will be interesting to see. It is always tougher to go through the lineup a second time.

[clenz]

Don't forget Indiana at 6+m and Ohio at 11+m. If the SoCon gets to/has to include Florida in their footprint.
States where SoCon teams reside: NC, SC, VA, AL, TN, GA with a population of around 44m, and around 63 D1 FB programs. States where MVFC teams reside: ND, SD, IA, IL, OH, IN, MO with a population of around 42m, and around 32 D1 FB programs. So the SoCon has roughly 690 thousand people per D1 FB program. Where the MVFC is at a nice 1.31m people per D1 program. That's nearly double. I agree with what some of the Furman guys are saying. Not only do the big dogs of the area get their pick (bama, auburn, UGA, UT, UNC, USC, VT, ECU), but it's a hot bed for everyone. Not many of those schools are going to SD, ND, IA, MO, or IN to court prospects. When I lived in NC I had Duke, UNC, NCSU, Wake, ASU, WCU, NC A&T, UNC-Charlotte, Wofford, and Furman within 2.5 to 3 hrs drive. Here in TN I have WCU, UT, UTC, ETSU, Vandy, TN Tech, TN State, MTSU in the same drive window. The point is, the south loves football, it's obvious by the saturation of the college football market down here. One of the reasons I love it.
Yeah...we only go against Iowa, Iowa State, Kansas, Kansas State, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Michigan, Michigan State Notre Dame, Northwestern Illinois, Indiana, Missouri, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Nebraska and then all of the western side of the MAC for recruits. I mean...piece of cake...right?

You also live in area that, according to pretty much every national pundit, is the recruiting hot bed of America. The best teams in Iowa would be middle of the road, if that, down there is what I've been told. The top players from Iowa wouldn't be top players down there.

Oh, you're schools don't go after Iowa, Minnesota and Wisconsin guys? I believe there's a OL that might start for Bama this year from the state of Iowa. I happen to know his sister very well from college. The state of Iowa has also sent players to UNC, Duke, Oregon, Louisville, Michigan, Notre Dame, etc... and had a number that would suprise you get recruited by Michigan, Ohio State, Notre Dame, Alabama, Oregon, etc... but they ultimately end up at Iowa, Nebraska, Iowa State because they want to stay close to home.

[ysubigred]

Can gods gift to FCS college football YSU be a dark horse at the same time? :D

I don't think YSU is going to surprise anybody. The bulls eye is on their back just because of BO taking over. YSU is no dark horse they are expected to win and make the playoffs this year,, same talent with a better coaching staff minus the O coordinator. xtwocentsx

[tenNesseeCat]

Yeah...we only go against Iowa, Iowa State, Kansas, Kansas State, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Michigan, Michigan State Notre Dame, Northwestern Illinois, Indiana, Missouri, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Nebraska and then all of the western side of the MAC for recruits. I mean...piece of cake...right?

You also live in area that, according to pretty much every national pundit, is the recruiting hot bed of America. The best teams in Iowa would be middle of the road, if that, down there is what I've been told. The top players from Iowa wouldn't be top players down there.

Oh, you're schools don't go after Iowa, Minnesota and Wisconsin guys? I believe there's a OL that might start for Bama this year from the state of Iowa. I happen to know his sister very well from college. The state of Iowa has also sent players to UNC, Duke, Oregon, Louisville, Michigan, Notre Dame, etc... and had a number that would suprise you get recruited by Michigan, Ohio State, Notre Dame, Alabama, Oregon, etc... but they ultimately end up at Iowa, Nebraska, Iowa State because they want to stay close to home.

Let me take some words out of your mouth(or off your fingers) that I didn't say.

I didn't said that schools from down here never go up there. I was referencing fairly common knowledge of the south as a rich talent pool. 9 of the top 15 states with D1 scholarships are in the south. SC is the only SoCon state that didn't make the top 15. #17 isn't too bad though.

I didn't say that players from up there wouldn't do well down here. That's something you conjured up. Duke just sent Tomlinson to the Lions in the 28th pick. He's from Chicago. There, I debunked that for you. Or does that count? You were trying to throw the Chicago population out the MVFC window earlier.

Lastly, I never said anything about cake. Everyone knows knows the big ten has some great programs. There are some pretty decent MAC program as well. What's the point? I broke the numbers down earlier. I'll list them again. SoCon area - 44m people with 63 D1 programs = 690k people per D1 program. MVFC area - 42m people with 32 D1 programs = 1.3m people per D1 program. In recent history, my high school has sent players to Duke, NCSU, ECU, App, UNC, Wake, CCU, WVU, Notre Dame, and one to Michigan that didn't attend my high school, but was from there. Probably others I'm forgetting too. Most of the ones I had any info on, were also offered by schools outside their footprint. Again, the point I and others are making, is that the south is heavily grazed pastures in regards to football talent. Coaches down here pass 4,5,6 other D1 programs on the way to visit prospects. Not to mention the others who aren't in their footprint, that will be there checking out the same guy they are looking at. I'm not trying to take anything way from the quality of football played in the mid-west, or the quality of players coming out, or the competition that is present. It's just extremely competitive down here, and I'm sure most in the SoCon, SEC, ACC, Big South, MEAC, Southland, or any other conference down here would tell you the same.

[lionsrking2]

Let me take some words out of your mouth(or off your fingers) that I didn't say.

I didn't said that schools from down here never go up there. I was referencing fairly common knowledge of the south as a rich talent pool. 9 of the top 15 states with D1 scholarships are in the south. SC is the only SoCon state that didn't make the top 15. #17 isn't too bad though.

I didn't say that players from up there wouldn't do well down here. That's something you conjured up. Duke just sent Tomlinson to the Lions in the 28th pick. He's from Chicago. There, I debunked that for you. Or does that count? You were trying to throw the Chicago population out the MVFC window earlier.

Lastly, I never said anything about cake. Everyone knows knows the big ten has some great programs. There are some pretty decent MAC program as well. What's the point? I broke the numbers down earlier. I'll list them again. SoCon area - 44m people with 63 D1 programs = 690k people per D1 program. MVFC area - 42m people with 32 D1 programs = 1.3m people per D1 program. In recent history, my high school has sent players to Duke, NCSU, ECU, App, UNC, Wake, CCU, WVU, Notre Dame, and one to Michigan that didn't attend my high school, but was from there. Probably others I'm forgetting too. Most of the ones I had any info on, were also offered by schools outside their footprint. Again, the point I and others are making, is that the south is heavily grazed pastures in regards to football talent. Coaches down here pass 4,5,6 other D1 programs on the way to visit prospects. Not to mention the others who aren't in their footprint, that will be there checking out the same guy they are looking at. I'm not trying to take anything way from the quality of football played in the mid-west, or the quality of players coming out, or the competition that is present. It's just extremely competitive down here, and I'm sure most in the SoCon, SEC, ACC, Big South, MEAC, Southland, or any other conference down here would tell you the same.

Well stated.

[tomq04]

Cal Poly and UND

[bjtheflamesfan]

Alright...

Now I hope this this is the only time I have to say this but we are supposed to all be mature adults here (and yeah I know this is a message board), but can we please keep the discussion to the original question?

[SENOREIDA]

Has to be Presbyterian.

[RichH2]

Alright...

Now I hope this this is the only time I have to say this but we are supposed to all be mature adults here (and yeah I know this is a message board), but can we please keep the discussion to the original question?
Probably not,but good try :)

[Go Green]

Harvard, Dartmouth, and Yale were all separated by a handful of plays last season and are bringing plenty of guys back. In all likelihood, the Ivy title will be won or shared by that group.

The dark horse will be Princeton. Was their 2013 success a fluke, or did injuries prevent them from reaching their potential in 2014? We will find out....

[tenNesseeCat]

Alright...

Now I hope this this is the only time I have to say this but we are supposed to all be mature adults here (and yeah I know this is a message board), but can we please keep the discussion to the original question?
You are right, I'll tie it together.

Our discussion about the talent and program rich south is tangent to the dark horse thread because programs like Furman and Wofford are in this group with Mercer. This is the perfect example of what some of the Furman people have been stating for a while. Teams like Mercer, Ga St, CCU, and charlotte are gobbling up talent that used to be in the bag for them. Add to that, power programs like App and GSU taking a larger piece of the pie, and the recruiting trail becomes even more crowded. You know there have been players at newer/expanded programs that would have been on Furman's roster 10 years ago. Therefore making it harder for established programs. As the SoCon goes, I think it's leveling out the peaks and valleys that used to separate teams like Furman and WCU. Think about it. What would most have thought 5 years ago if someone came on here and said, after GSU and App leave, the SoCon champ will be determined in Cullowhee between WCU and UTC. While Furman and Wofford could be dark horses in '15. Most would probably, and have said that the SoCon is down. Maybe....or maybe it's changing gears coming out of a turn? If Furman, Wofford, and Mercer are the dark horse contenders, then I think the latter may be the case!

[PAllen]

Columbia with Bagnoli. ;)

That would be coach of the century right there.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

That would be coach of the century right there.

I'll agree with that. Billy Snyder was probably the coach of the century for the 1900's given what he did at Kanas State. Turning around Columbia would be nearly the equal.....

[Go...gate]

Don't bet against Bagnoli.....

OTOH, Princeton is an enigma. At least there are no guarantees of an undefeated season by the players.

[Go Green]

In the Ivies... I can't think of any clear competitors for the Crimson right now.

If Hosch is Harvard's starting QB in 2015, you'll be lucky to take third.

[Go...gate]

Go Green, is Dartmouth ready to take the title? Seems like they have a good nucleus coming back.

[Go Green]

Go Green, is Dartmouth ready to take the title? Seems like they have a good nucleus coming back.

We should be up there. Harvard has had our number for a while, and it has been frustrating. Much depends on whether our best running back (Kyle Bramble) can return from a second torn ACL, and whether Dayln Williams remains healthy. Can't overlook Yale either....

[ST_Lawson]

I appreciate the fact that Western (IL) is at the top of a lot of people's lists for the MVFC "dark horse". It's easy to tell that Coach Nielson has really turned around the whole climate of the program, although that's only just now starting to translate into winning seasons. We were 5-17 over the last two seasons of our previous coach, and while the first two years of Coach N haven't been blowing the doors off of anyone, it's been a slow and steady improvement at a time when the conference in general took a big step forward in quality.

I fully expect our offense to be near the top of a lot of rankings (especially passing and receiving yards), but the question is the defense. They're young, but talented. If they can put together some good performances, we'll be that "dark horse" that people think we can be...otherwise....it'll be a roughly .500 season (can't be exactly .500 technically...it'd be either 5-6 or 6-5).

We showed we can at least keep up with the top of the conference in our close losses to the two championship game teams...if we can actually hold on to win the games that are that close, regardless of who they're against, then we'll do well and likely be somewhere around the 3-4th MVFC team in the playoffs.

[eiu1999]

OVC...EKU better than advertised.

[Toby]

In the SoCon, Samford and WCU have the potential to win the conference, but I wouldn't really consider either as a dark horse. Furman can wear that title for now. I think they gained a lot of experience last year. Combine that with getting and staying healthy, and they should be very solid. I don't think anyone would be surprised to see Wofford/Ayers in the hunt come November. Mercer would be my final consideration. They played some good teams close last year, and have pretty much everyone back. They have some really good players, but it will be their progression as a whole that will pace how far they can go.

I'd have to go with Furman as well. They will beat expectations this year. The question is by how much?

[APaladindad]

I'd have to go with Furman as well. They will beat expectations this year. The question is by how much?

I would have to agree with you! I hope there are a lot of broken hearts in the SoCon pre-season top 4.

[FUBeAR]

I would have to agree with you! I hope there are a lot of broken hearts in the SoCon pre-season top 5.

FIFY

[Daytripper]

I'm going to say ACU.


I agree with this...

[Skyhawk71]

OVC...EKU better than advertised.

Since 2001, EIU, EKU or JSU has won or shared every OVC Championship; with the exception of the "dark horse" SEMO 2010 outright championship. I don't see any "dark horses" this year because the trend of the Big 3 continues

[eiu1999]

Since 2001, EIU, EKU or JSU has won or shared every OVC Championship; with the exception of the "dark horse" SEMO 2010 outright championship. I don't see any "dark horses" this year because the trend of the Big 3 continues


Didn't Tech win one too?

[Skyhawk71]

Didn't Tech win one too?

02: Murray/EIU; 06: UTM/EIU 11: Tech/EKU/JSU- JSU stayed home after tie breakers; all other co-champs have been one of the BIG 3

[Skyhawk71]

11 was the year Tech hosted UCA lost, and could be the year that EKU had JMU beat and blew it at the end, I think.......

[kalm]

Montana...maybe Weber.

[eiu1999]

11 was the year Tech hosted UCA lost, and could be the year that EKU had JMU beat and blew it at the end, I think.......


I think you're right.

[cpalum]

If Poly survives there schedule, they definitely Won't be a dark horse. tough schedule for them.


Agreed

[APaladindad]

Furman mascot Fury [the horse] was injured last season and he is slated to make his return on 9/5/15. If Fury comes back healthy, then the team may have turned the corner on injuries and be a true dark horse candidate for great turn around season for 2015.

[DoWe]

What the SoCon does need to do this year is win their out of conference games. We need to prove we deserve more than three teams in the playoffs.
Indeed you do, if you can. I will go with Woffy as the dark horse out of the SoCon.

[nodak651]

Montana...maybe Weber.
Montana can never be a dark horse... they are Montana and still in the Big Sky, correct?

[bulldog10jw]

We should be up there. Harvard has had our number for a while, and it has been frustrating. Much depends on whether our best running back (Kyle Bramble) can return from a second torn ACL, and whether Dayln Williams remains healthy. Can't overlook Yale either....

For Yale, I think it's all about the defense. Will it be like last year when they had to try and outscore everyone, and fell a TD short against Harvard and Dartmouth, or will the D help out a still pretty good offense, but without Tyler Varga.