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kdinva
July 17th, 2015, 08:36 PM
....Jacksonville.......misuse of aid monies...

http://www.sportsnetwork.com/merge/tsnform.aspx?c=sportsnetwork&page=cfoot2/news/news.aspx?id=835919

they did not violate "NCAA" financial aid rules, just the PFL's....

clenz
July 17th, 2015, 08:55 PM
Smh


Potential to be 3 for 3 on champions being ineligible.

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bonarae
July 17th, 2015, 11:15 PM
Uh oh. The PFL needs to clean house on its policies. xsmhx

clenz
July 18th, 2015, 01:54 AM
Uh oh. The PFL needs to clean house on its policies. xsmhx
They want those policies.

They are finding out they need to enforce them better than the non playoff bid era. That means schools can't pull the same stuff anymore. They'll learn new ways around Thwy system, because they'll want to be able to compete. The PFL always demanded they could compete with the rest of the FCS, well we are quickly learning what we already knew - they aren't even close.

The conference is going to start feeling the heat to produce something come playoff time and will either not enforce their policies or change them and admit their policies don't work for competitive D1 teams...just like the PL did. Or they'll take their ball and go home to find a way to avoid the rest of the FCS like the SWAC, MEAC and Ivy.

I honestly give the PFL less than a decade in the existing playoff structure. By the end of that decade they will either be pushing at least NEC level scolarships, backed out of the playoffs or dissolved because teams wanted scholarship football and found other homes or dropped football .

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bonarae
July 18th, 2015, 04:43 AM
clenz is spot on with the current state and possible future of PFL teams. Honestly, I became dissatisfied with the current direction of Ivy football some years back and still remains there today, due to the fact that the board (in the Ivies' case, the Presidents) is still hard-headed and not granting any requests from the media and fans to progress in the FCS. That time was when I started mentioning about D-III in this board, and I became a bandwagon MtUnion/UWW and Chicago/WashU fan as well.

Speaking of the PFL's fate, I am afraid to say that it better be dissolved sooner, either by themselves or by the NCAA's "lenient" enforcing board. It is like the SunBelch of the FBS, it being in the wrong place for their subdivision/division. xsmhx

I often wonder why WSSU went back to D-II, but I often think they went that way because the MEAC was heading into oblivion by backing out of the playoffs. They did the "right" thing by returning to playoff football in D-II... and I also wonder why ETSU didn't rejoin SoCon football this year, upon restarting of the program (despite the fact that they have been an other-sports member in the SoCon for one year running.)

813Jag
July 18th, 2015, 07:52 AM
WSSU left the MEAC due to $$$$ not because the MEAC would go to the Celebration Bowl 5 years later.

hebmskebm
July 18th, 2015, 08:40 AM
They want those policies.

They are finding out they need to enforce them better than the non playoff bid era. That means schools can't pull the same stuff anymore. They'll learn new ways around Thwy system, because they'll want to be able to compete. The PFL always demanded they could compete with the rest of the FCS, well we are quickly learning what we already knew - they aren't even close.

The conference is going to start feeling the heat to produce something come playoff time and will either not enforce their policies or change them and admit their policies don't work for competitive D1 teams...just like the PL did. Or they'll take their ball and go home to find a way to avoid the rest of the FCS like the SWAC, MEAC and Ivy.

I honestly give the PFL less than a decade in the existing playoff structure. By the end of that decade they will either be pushing at least NEC level scolarships, backed out of the playoffs or dissolved because teams wanted scholarship football and found other homes or dropped football .

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If individual teams in the PFL want to start issuing scholarships, they'd just leave and find a more geographically friendly league, if possible. I can't see the league itself change policy on them, since the non-scholarship aspect is the raison d'être for the far-flung league's existence. JU, Campbell and to a lesser extent Marist have all been rumored to be on their way out within the next few years anyway.

FUBeAR
July 18th, 2015, 08:45 AM
wonder why ETSU didn't rejoin SoCon football this year, upon restarting of the program (despite the fact that they have been an other-sports member in the SoCon for one year running.)

ETSU is re-starting football, while other sports have been competing in the Atlantic Sun Conference. So, competing in other sports was 'do-able' in Yr 1. Just speculating, but I believe they wanted to give their program the best chance to succeed by 'ramping it up' - 1 'practice year (2014), 1 year of having flexibility to schedule more games where the likelihood of being competitive or winning those games (especially at home) was higher (2015) vs. 8 SoCon games. This (potentially) allows fans to taste some success, players to 'learn' how to win, and give the program 3 Recruiting Classes & 3 Fall/Spring practices before they start facing off with local rivals from Chatt & WCU, as well as the rest of the established programs in the SoCon. Climbing an angled ladder is preferable to scaling a sheer rockface or, even harder, climbing out of a pit. The Bucs are doing it right. They're following the 'success formula' of some other recent start-ups, such as ODU & Mercer, as opposed to becoming the next GaSt or (maybe) UNCC.

clenz
July 18th, 2015, 08:55 AM
If individual teams in the PFL want to start issuing scholarships, they'd just leave and find a more geographically friendly league, if possible. I can't see the league itself change policy on them, since the non-scholarship aspect is the raison d'être for the far-flung league's existence. JU, Campbell and to a lesser extent Marist have all been rumored to be on their way out within the next few years anyway.
It's why I don't see the league lasting now that the playoffs are a yearly bid for the conference. Teams will want to compete, and they can't even attempt to do that running g a D3 program.

In Iowa Drake wouldn't finish tip 3 or 4 in the Inter Iowa Athletic Conference, which is the D3 league

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walliver
July 18th, 2015, 08:58 AM
...
I often wonder why WSSU went back to D-II, but I often think they went that way because the MEAC was heading into oblivion by backing out of the playoffs. They did the "right" thing by returning to playoff football in D-II... and I also wonder why ETSU didn't rejoin SoCon football this year, upon restarting of the program (despite the fact that they have been an other-sports member in the SoCon for one year running.)

It is not in the best interest of ETSU or the SoCon to do that.

For ETSU, I would just about guarantee 8 ugly losses ... not a good way to restart football.
For the SoCon, it would be a horrible factor when figuring strength of schedule for the remaining teams, making at-large bids more difficult.

I agree with FuBear that the past experiences of CCU and Mercer are a better path to success.

Kenessaw State is in a somewhat different position. The Big South has a tenuous hold on its guaranteed playoff bid, and Liberty is itching to get out ASAP. Monmouth is a short-term deal. There is also some talk of Presbyterian rethinking the D-1 move, but I find that unlikely. The Big South needs to get their numbers up and starting KSU with a conference schedule their first year may help.

Model Citizen
July 18th, 2015, 10:14 AM
This year's bad boy has yet to be determined. This is fallout from past years.

I think there were new revelations about 2010-2013. Last time we heard from the league, JU's violations were identified as 2014, and everything was jake after the Dolphins forfeited their ill gotten gains from '14.

Model Citizen
July 18th, 2015, 10:17 AM
Kerwin Bell's buyout must be substantial... :shakes head:

Go...gate
July 19th, 2015, 02:08 AM
They want those policies.

They are finding out they need to enforce them better than the non playoff bid era. That means schools can't pull the same stuff anymore. They'll learn new ways around Thwy system, because they'll want to be able to compete. The PFL always demanded they could compete with the rest of the FCS, well we are quickly learning what we already knew - they aren't even close.

The conference is going to start feeling the heat to produce something come playoff time and will either not enforce their policies or change them and admit their policies don't work for competitive D1 teams...just like the PL did. Or they'll take their ball and go home to find a way to avoid the rest of the FCS like the SWAC, MEAC and Ivy.

I honestly give the PFL less than a decade in the existing playoff structure. By the end of that decade they will either be pushing at least NEC level scolarships, backed out of the playoffs or dissolved because teams wanted scholarship football and found other homes or dropped football .

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Bingo.

But will the NEC have increased its scholarship limit for member schools by that time?

Lehigh Football Nation
July 19th, 2015, 09:01 AM
So 2 of the 9 PFL teams have "cheated", according to the presidents of the league (San Diego, now Jacksonville). When is it considered an epidemic?

clenz
July 19th, 2015, 09:13 AM
So 2 of the 9 PFL teams have "cheated", according to the presidents of the league (San Diego, now Jacksonville). When is it considered an epidemic?
Don't kid yourself. This has been going on for YEARS, especially at Drake during their title years.

The PFL just didn't give a damn to do anything about it because there was no post season. Everyone did it so no one blew the whistle because it'd come back around.

With the playoffs on the line there's a reason to point it out.

1 time is an accident
2 times is a coincidence
3 or more is a pattern of issues


Especially when your now 3 for 3 on declaring teams ineligible

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DFW HOYA
July 19th, 2015, 01:51 PM
So 2 of the 9 PFL teams have "cheated", according to the presidents of the league (San Diego, now Jacksonville). When is it considered an epidemic?

This has parallels to the MAAC of the 1990's, which had a run of penalizing aspiring teams (St. John's, Siena, Fairfield) over financial aid violations... and to ostensibly protect low-budget teams like St. Peter's and Canisius that could not keep up.

Where are they all today? Hmm....

Model Citizen
July 19th, 2015, 06:59 PM
This has parallels to the MAAC of the 1990's, which had a run of penalizing aspiring teams (St. John's, Siena, Fairfield) over financial aid violations... and to ostensibly protect low-budget teams like St. Peter's and Canisius that could not keep up.

Where are they all today? Hmm....

Marist is in the PFL. Not sure where Georgetown is headed.

Lehigh Football Nation
July 19th, 2015, 10:17 PM
Brad Edwards was JU’s athletic director from July 2012 until June 2014, and now holds the same position at George Mason University. Alan Verlander was the Dolphins’ AD from 2005-2012 and is now executive director for Jax Sports. Kerry Romesburg served as JU’s president from 2004-2013 before leaving the school.

“I think what happened, there was a notion that leadership scholarships were OK, it was a normal practice, it was not uncommon ...,” Horner said. “It was not as if it was a sinister plan. They were openly discussed in league meetings. But the notion, what I believed happened, is we got sloppy. That’s why compliance is absolutely essential. ... I just think we took the eye off the ball.”

http://jacksonville.com/sports/college/jacksonville-dolphins/2015-07-17/story/pioneer-league-punishes-ju-violations-football

So rhat's very interesting...

DFW HOYA
July 19th, 2015, 10:35 PM
Marist is in the PFL. Not sure where Georgetown is headed.

Independent, NEC, or another decade at the bottom of the PL. (Wouldn't discount the latter.)

Model Citizen
July 19th, 2015, 10:36 PM
"Widespread evidence of financial aid improprieties at JU stretched back to as far as 2007, with Horner saying the severity likely played a role in the postseason ban in 2015."

2007 was when Kerwin Bell became their coach.

clenz
July 19th, 2015, 10:55 PM
http://jacksonville.com/sports/college/jacksonville-dolphins/2015-07-17/story/pioneer-league-punishes-ju-violations-football

So rhat's very interesting...
So essentially what I said.

Pre post season era a fairly common practice but no one was going to whistle blow because nothing truly tangible was on the line. Now that there's something added it's becoming a "hey, look what they are doing but don't look at us" type deal to the league offices

Go...gate
July 20th, 2015, 12:03 AM
Independent, NEC, or another decade at the bottom of the PL. (Wouldn't discount the latter.)

I don't think Georgetown is going anywhere.

Lehigh Football Nation
July 20th, 2015, 09:09 AM
So exactly how many PFL schools offer these leadership scholarships? How many per school? What's the percentage that go towards football players? Is 90% bad, but, say, 50% OK? What's the rule? Is it spelled out by the league office? Or is it optics?

Do the schools' compliance offices have a rule of thumb in regards to how many are acceptable?

Most importantly, does this show that the idea of the PFL being non-scholarship is a complete sham? "Sure we're non-scholarship... unless you get a leadership scholarship."

clenz
July 20th, 2015, 09:17 AM
So exactly how many PFL schools offer these leadership scholarships? How many per school? What's the percentage that go towards football players? Is 90% bad, but, say, 50% OK? What's the rule? Is it spelled out by the league office? Or is it optics?

Do the schools' compliance offices have a rule of thumb in regards to how many are acceptable?

Most importantly, does this show that the idea of the PFL being non-scholarship is a complete sham? "Sure we're non-scholarship... unless you get a leadership scholarship."
The last line has about a 10000000% chance of being correct.

Isn't it the same way the Ivy's and most D3s work? WE DON'T GIVE ATHLETIC SCHOLARSHIPS*

*Unless you're good enough to get one. At that point you'll get an academic, leadership, work related aid that would be equal to a scholarship - even if you don't fully qualify for it.

Go...gate
July 20th, 2015, 09:24 AM
The last line has about a 10000000% chance of being correct.

Isn't it the same way the Ivies and most D3s work? WE DON'T GIVE ATHLETIC SCHOLARSHIPS*

*Unless you're good enough to get one. At that point you'll get an academic, leadership, work related aid that would be equal to a scholarship - even if you don't fully qualify for it.

And the way the Patriot worked for many years as well. Colgate had a number of such scholarships, called "Alumni Memorial Scholarships" and were need-based. At the end of the day, if you give the scholarship to an athlete, isn't that the equivalent of an athletic scholarship (though at Colgate (and presumably elsewhere), you keep it even if you don't continue in athletics).

Lehigh Football Nation
July 20th, 2015, 09:28 AM
The last line has about a 10000000% chance of being correct.

Isn't it the same way the Ivy's and most D3s work? WE DON'T GIVE ATHLETIC SCHOLARSHIPS*

*Unless you're good enough to get one. At that point you'll get an academic, leadership, work related aid that would be equal to a scholarship - even if you don't fully qualify for it.

The Ivies get around it by offering the same extremely generous aid to all their students, so there's no need to worry about percentages. The Academic Index is set up to ensure that admissions standards aren't compromised to let in kids who are academically unqualified, but on the money side if you make less than six figures as a household you basically have your tuition paid by the school. They're so rich they can do that.

I've randomly heard of D-III's violating aid rules like that but can't site any specific examples.

DFW HOYA
July 20th, 2015, 09:39 AM
All Pioneer schools offer a merit aid option to their students, be in "Leadership Scholarships" or "Presidential Scholarships" or somesuch. What likely got Jacksonville in trouble was a percentage of "scholars" in the football program wholly different from the student body as a whole. Then again, if 20% of Davidson kids get merit aid, then 20% would be OK in football, too, which is why merit aid is a de facto requirement for Pioneer football.

As far as I can tell, there are only nine I-AA schools that do not offer merit aid and do not offer football scholarships.

Lehigh Football Nation
July 20th, 2015, 09:40 AM
The PL essentially gave scholarships for years by having their students go through the financial aid office and finding out what percentage each kid qualified for. A certain amount was a grant, another part was work study, and the final part was the need-based amount the student was supposed to pay. For kids in the football program, that need-based amount was turned into a grant in some cases. By the NCAA definition, this is scholarship aid ("scholarship equivalency"), even though the students needed to go through the same financial aid process as any regular student and go through the calculations and paperwork.

The program unquestionably helped many kids who might not otherwise have been able to afford a PL education experience one. Almost all of the beneficiaries did not go pro.

The major difference between the IL, PL and PFL methods are rules and oversight. In the PL and IL, the rules are very well defined and the schools very closely in communication with one another. That does not appear to be the case in the PFL, where rules are getting invented as they go and entire teams are competing with the goal of a PFL championship and a playoff berth in mind only to have the rug yanked from them the second to last week of the season.

Lehigh Football Nation
July 20th, 2015, 09:42 AM
All Pioneer schools offer a merit aid option to their students, be in "Leadership Scholarships" or "Presidential Scholarships" or somesuch. What likely got Jacksonville in trouble was a percentage of "scholars" in the football program wholly different from the student body as a whole. Then again, if 20% of Davidson kids get merit aid, then 20% would be OK in football, too, which is why merit aid is a de facto requirement for Pioneer football.

As far as I can tell, there are only nine I-AA schools that do not offer merit aid and do not offer football scholarships. Eight are a package deal. One is not.

This might be fine, but where in the PFL rulebook is this stated?

Model Citizen
July 20th, 2015, 10:19 AM
This might be fine, but where in the PFL rulebook is this stated?

I believe the document is the PFL charter (not available on the Internet). It requires adherence to D-III rules on financial aid. Review the D-III manual, and you'll get your answers.

Model Citizen
July 20th, 2015, 10:22 AM
All Pioneer schools offer a merit aid option to their students, be in "Leadership Scholarships" or "Presidential Scholarships" or somesuch.

Leadership Scholarships and Presidential Scholarships are typically not the same. JU's Leadership Scholarships (discontinued for new recipients) were essentially a slush fund for athletics. On the other hand, most schools' presidential scholarships are not scholarships at all; they are tuition discounts for qualified students - based on GPA and test scores.

Go...gate
July 20th, 2015, 11:04 AM
All Pioneer schools offer a merit aid option to their students, be in "Leadership Scholarships" or "Presidential Scholarships" or somesuch. What likely got Jacksonville in trouble was a percentage of "scholars" in the football program wholly different from the student body as a whole. Then again, if 20% of Davidson kids get merit aid, then 20% would be OK in football, too, which is why merit aid is a de facto requirement for Pioneer football.

As far as I can tell, there are only nine I-AA schools that do not offer merit aid and do not offer football scholarships.

They offer football scholarships, but call them something else.

Pinnum
July 20th, 2015, 11:25 AM
The Ivies get around it by offering the same extremely generous aid to all their students, so there's no need to worry about percentages. The Academic Index is set up to ensure that admissions standards aren't compromised to let in kids who are academically unqualified, but on the money side if you make less than six figures as a household you basically have your tuition paid by the school. They're so rich they can do that.

I've randomly heard of D-III's violating aid rules like that but can't site any specific examples.

The Ivy's aid is only offered on a financial need basis. There are no merit scholarships (everyone would be merit in the Ivy).

Most of the D3 infractions come from not out of intent to violate the policies but the application that results in a defacto violation.

For instance, Buffalo State College was found to be in violation for their aid to the ice hockey teams. The school set up special scholarships to be awarded to any students from Canada in an effort to recruit more quality students from across the border. This is not a violation. But the school did not commit to their marketing efforts. They did not adequately advertise these scholarships in Canada and the admissions office did not expand their efforts into Canada and attend college fairs. Basically, the only way Canadian prospective students would become aware of the scholarship is when they applied and were awarded the scholarship. However, the ice hockey coach recruited Canada and would go to recruits and tell them about the scholarship available to them. After a few years, they realized that the scholarship was primarily being utilized by members of the ice hockey team. While there was no ill intent by anyone and the scholarships were awarded to all Canadians that enrolled in the time-frame, the effect was a benefit that was primarily utilized by the ice hockey team that was basically the only entity promoting the benefit.

Sandlapper Spike
July 20th, 2015, 05:03 PM
The PL essentially gave scholarships for years by having their students go through the financial aid office and finding out what percentage each kid qualified for. A certain amount was a grant, another part was work study, and the final part was the need-based amount the student was supposed to pay. For kids in the football program, that need-based amount was turned into a grant in some cases. By the NCAA definition, this is scholarship aid ("scholarship equivalency"), even though the students needed to go through the same financial aid process as any regular student and go through the calculations and paperwork.

The program unquestionably helped many kids who might not otherwise have been able to afford a PL education experience one. Almost all of the beneficiaries did not go pro.

The major difference between the IL, PL and PFL methods are rules and oversight. In the PL and IL, the rules are very well defined and the schools very closely in communication with one another. That does not appear to be the case in the PFL, where rules are getting invented as they go and entire teams are competing with the goal of a PFL championship and a playoff berth in mind only to have the rug yanked from them the second to last week of the season.

I don't think it is surprising that Patriot and Ivy League schools are able to work closely with one another in ways that maybe the Pioneer League schools do not, given the institutional histories and commonalities among many of the Ivies and PL schools (which is in contrast to the Pioneer schools).

Lehigh Football Nation
July 21st, 2015, 09:15 AM
The Ivy's aid is only offered on a financial need basis. There are no merit scholarships (everyone would be merit in the Ivy).

Most of the D3 infractions come from not out of intent to violate the policies but the application that results in a defacto violation.

For instance, Buffalo State College was found to be in violation for their aid to the ice hockey teams. The school set up special scholarships to be awarded to any students from Canada in an effort to recruit more quality students from across the border. This is not a violation. But the school did not commit to their marketing efforts. They did not adequately advertise these scholarships in Canada and the admissions office did not expand their efforts into Canada and attend college fairs. Basically, the only way Canadian prospective students would become aware of the scholarship is when they applied and were awarded the scholarship. However, the ice hockey coach recruited Canada and would go to recruits and tell them about the scholarship available to them. After a few years, they realized that the scholarship was primarily being utilized by members of the ice hockey team. While there was no ill intent by anyone and the scholarships were awarded to all Canadians that enrolled in the time-frame, the effect was a benefit that was primarily utilized by the ice hockey team that was basically the only entity promoting the benefit.

Thanks for this important context. Theoretically speaking this could have been the type of thing that might have happened at Jacksonville and USD, though the investigation at Jax seems to imply not.

Ivytalk
July 23rd, 2015, 09:55 PM
I was all set to vote for GoToreros. Whatever happened to that dude?

dgtw
July 24th, 2015, 07:39 AM
So Buffalo State's hockey coach got off his ass and got word out about the scholarship. What was stopping the head of the math department from doing the same thing?


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Pinnum
July 24th, 2015, 12:00 PM
For those of you interested in reading the facts of the violation and official NCAA report: https://web1.ncaa.org/LSDBi/exec/miSearch?miSearchSubmit=publicReport&key=683&publicTerms=THIS


Below is the NCAA D3 legislation that was in violation. Many people don't realize that there is a lot of latitude given to D3 schools in how they structure their financial aid and as a result they determine compliance by merely looking at the trends to see if there is a difference between athletes and non-athletes. If there is a substantial difference, no matter the reasoning, it is likely a violation.


15.4.1 Consistent Financial Aid Package.

The composition of the financial aid package offered to a student-athlete shall be consistent with the established policy of the institution's financial aid office, regular institutional agency, office or committee for all students and shall meet all of the following criteria: (Revised: 5/7/07) (a) A member institution shall not consider athletics leadership, ability, participation or performance as a criterion in the formulation of the financial aid package; (Revised: 8/22/06, 4/30/09)
(b) The financial aid procedures used for a student-athlete are the same as the existing official financial aid policies of the institution;
(c) The financial aid package for a particular student-athlete, group of student-athletes or team of student-athletes cannot be clearly distinguishable from the general pattern of all financial aid for all recipients at the institution; and (Revised: 7/22/14)
(d) The percentage of the total dollar value of institutionally administered grants and scholarships (or gift aid) awarded to student-athletes shall be closely equivalent to the percentage of student-athletes within the student body. A differential is defensible if it can be demonstrated that the average need of the student-athletes at the institution is equivalently greater than the average need of other students. (Revised: 4/30/09)

Pinnum
July 24th, 2015, 12:05 PM
So Buffalo State's hockey coach got off his ass and got word out about the scholarship. What was stopping the head of the math department from doing the same thing?


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Schools are judged as a unit. Unfortunately, the coach did his job well and was ultimately penalized because it was not consistent with the job Buffalo State did as a whole (for their Canadian prospective students). All students are suppose to be treated equally in D3 (in regards to financial assistance) without regard to athletic ability.

Lehigh Football Nation
July 24th, 2015, 12:17 PM
For those of you interested in reading the facts of the violation and official NCAA report: https://web1.ncaa.org/LSDBi/exec/miSearch?miSearchSubmit=publicReport&key=683&publicTerms=THIS


Below is the NCAA D3 legislation that was in violation. Many people don't realize that there is a lot of latitude given to D3 schools in how they structure their financial aid and as a result they determine compliance by merely looking at the trends to see if there is a difference between athletes and non-athletes. If there is a substantial difference, no matter the reasoning, it is likely a violation.


15.4.1 Consistent Financial Aid Package.

The composition of the financial aid package offered to a student-athlete shall be consistent with the established policy of the institution's financial aid office, regular institutional agency, office or committee for all students and shall meet all of the following criteria: (Revised: 5/7/07) (a) A member institution shall not consider athletics leadership, ability, participation or performance as a criterion in the formulation of the financial aid package; (Revised: 8/22/06, 4/30/09)
(b) The financial aid procedures used for a student-athlete are the same as the existing official financial aid policies of the institution;
(c) The financial aid package for a particular student-athlete, group of student-athletes or team of student-athletes cannot be clearly distinguishable from the general pattern of all financial aid for all recipients at the institution; and (Revised: 7/22/14)
(d) The percentage of the total dollar value of institutionally administered grants and scholarships (or gift aid) awarded to student-athletes shall be closely equivalent to the percentage of student-athletes within the student body. A differential is defensible if it can be demonstrated that the average need of the student-athletes at the institution is equivalently greater than the average need of other students. (Revised: 4/30/09)

So taking dgtw's point above, an academic/leadership scholarship can be set up, coaches can talk it up as something a student can qualify for - BUT... if it's successful compliance has to shoehorn in other disciplines in order to cook the numbers so the same number of athletes/non-athletes get it.

It takes a lot of coordination between admissions and compliance to make this work out.

One other note. I thought the D-III rules have some extra limits on recruiting athletes? Does making potential athletes aware of a leadership scholarship violate any rule there?

No idea how the hybrids do it, e.g. Johns Hopkins is D-I in lacrosse but D-III in everything else.

Pinnum
July 24th, 2015, 12:52 PM
So taking dgtw's point above, an academic/leadership scholarship can be set up, coaches can talk it up as something a student can qualify for - BUT... if it's successful compliance has to shoehorn in other disciplines in order to cook the numbers so the same number of athletes/non-athletes get it.

It takes a lot of coordination between admissions and compliance to make this work out.

One other note. I thought the D-III rules have some extra limits on recruiting athletes? Does making potential athletes aware of a leadership scholarship violate any rule there?

No idea how the hybrids do it, e.g. Johns Hopkins is D-I in lacrosse but D-III in everything else.

Hopkins follows the D1 rulebook for LAX and D3 for everything else (they are grandfathered so LAX is fully D1) while Hobart (not grandfathered) uses the D1 sport specific rulebook for LAX (recruiting/redshirting/etc) while still having to adhere to the D3 aid rules.

You're correct. It would take a lot of cooperation between the financial aid office and the athletic department in order for the school to be able to provide increased benefits to specific athletes while still being in the acceptable (typically about 3% margin of error) range. As a result, very few schools try that. Typically, what happens is athletes get a boost in getting accepted to schools that have lower acceptance rates but once they are accepted they fall under the same aid package as any other student.

This can be a catch 22 for some smaller schools that primarily offer merit aid as their aid package. For instance, if a school gives a high percentage of their students a presidential scholarship worth 50% tuition but you have to meet a certain GPA/SAT requirement in order to be awarded the scholarship, an athlete that wouldn't be accepted to the school if not for their athletic ability would not be able to be awarded the primary tuition reduction package.

Model Citizen
August 3rd, 2015, 07:53 AM
As mentioned in another thread, the PFL membership voted in July to remain nonscholarship, with no significant changes to its aid rules.

Carry on.