I fully support and back UTC if they ever move to the Sun Belt

[catamount man]

It's a no brainer. EKU doesn't have the money, JSU will be forever blackballed by Troy so only UTC can fill that void for a 12th team in the Sun Belt. The city is gorgeous and it fits into the blueprint. Go Mocs into gaining FBS status. You guys deserve it!

[BisonFan02]

xeyebrowx

[centennial]

Go check CSNbbs if you want to know who they want.
Hint: Not UTC

[BisonFan02]

Go check CSNbbs if you want to know who they want.
Hint: Not UTC

Please....PRETTY PLEASE....take Missouri St.

[WTFCollegefootballfan]

It's a no brainer. EKU doesn't have the money, JSU will be forever blackballed by Troy so only UTC can fill that void for a 12th team in the Sun Belt. The city is gorgeous and it fits into the blueprint. Go Mocs into gaining FBS status. You guys deserve it!
xcrazyxxcrazyx

[CID1990]

If UTC went FBS there are much better places that they could go than that graveyard.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Milktruck74]

As a Moc Fan, I PRAY we never go to the SunBelt. Things are not so Sunny over there for the teams that left. The added revenue that supposedly comes from stepping up in Football is quickly depleated when you have to send your soccer team on a road trip to Idaho.... For the sake of my university, I hope we remain in the bus league (SoCon)....Besides, I like you guys...and I'm getting use to CitDog! HA.

[blueballs]

No baseball, no FBS league invite.

/thread

[Catsfan90]

Why would you want to be in the Sunbelt? You just had a team in the quarterfinals. The sun belt is a huge step down.

[hebmskebm]

As a Moc Fan, I PRAY we never go to the SunBelt. Things are not so Sunny over there for the teams that left. The added revenue that supposedly comes from stepping up in Football is quickly depleated when you have to send your soccer team on a road trip to Idaho.... For the sake of my university, I hope we remain in the bus league (SoCon)....Besides, I like you guys...and I'm getting use to CitDog! HA.

No fan of the Sun Belt, but Idaho is a football only member. The Sun Belt has does full members from NC to TX, so your point is still somewhat valid.

[Milktruck74]

No fan of the Sun Belt, but Idaho is a football only member. The Sun Belt has does full members from NC to TX, so your point is still somewhat valid.

Thanks for clarifying. I also saw that there is a Soccer program in NY, NJ, and DC. and I forgot about going to NewMexico for football too.... I'd love to see the delta for App State's travel budget from 2012 vs 2014.

For Chattanooga, the LONG trip is 6 hours to UNCG or Charleston...you can buy 4 tanks of gas for the team van for the price of one plane ticket to San Marcos TX.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

No baseball, no FBS league invite.

/thread

wait. Chattanooga doesn't do baseball?


Hell, even NDSU does baseball and they can't play a home game before April.

[walliver]

Go check CSNbbs if you want to know who they want.
Hint: Not UTC

CSNbbs is full or delusional characters. Many of the teams the fans want have very poor attendance and weak football teams. Joining the Sun Belt is not going to make 10's of thousands of fans come out of the woodwork.

Chatty to the Sun Belt would be a great deal for the Sun Belt, but a horrible deal to Chatty.

With it's recent departures, The SBC will now be a one-bid BB conference, just like the SoCon. Chatty takes basketball seriously, and a Sun Belt move makes little sense. Chatty also has funding issues. They have no baseball and have recently dropped men's track (for Title IX reasons, supposedly).

[IBleedYellow]

Please....PRETTY PLEASE....take Missouri St.

I don't think you'd hear complaints here.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

I don't think you'd hear complaints here.

They'd have to be football only, they'd never leave the MVC for a lesser BB conference.

[BisonFan02]

They'd have to be football only, they'd never leave the MVC for a lesser BB conference.

Fine. I don't care about the MVC...just the MVFC. Kick out MSU...maybe also YSU and invite more solid members for both the MVFC and Summit.

[clenz]

They'd have to be football only, they'd never leave the MVC for a lesser BB conference.
MSU is dumb enough to do it....for real.

They can't win enough in the MVC to get a bid so their fans have admitted to wanting to make a lateral, at best, football move and a massive down move in almost every other sport so they have a chance.

They firmly believe the admin of the MVC and MVFC offices plot against them. It truly is sad to see

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

[OL FU]

So my question is, where did this come from?

Cman, was it a bad dream or wishful thinkingxeyebrowx

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

UTC is not in consideration. Where did this idea come from? Contrary what some might believe the Sun Belt isn't going to add warm bodies just to get to a certain number of teams. Idaho's football membership is temporary and NMSU's is as well if they do not become an all-sports member.

I doubt UTC has any interest, either. A couple of good seasons doesn't mean UTC is going to be willing to move football to FBS.

[BisonFan02]

UTC is not in consideration. Where did this idea come from? Contrary what some might believe the Sun Belt isn't going to add warm bodies just to get to a certain number of teams. Idaho's football membership is temporary and NMSU's is as well if they do not become an all-sports member.

I doubt UTC has any interest, either. A couple of good seasons doesn't mean UTC is going to be willing to move football to FBS.

The Sunbelt is that fat girl hanging out with the hot chicks at the bar...talking all big to her friends throughout the night about meeting a hot/nice guy too...but ends up being someone's "hey, I struck out/safety ****" after last call.

[BisonFan02]

The Sunbelt is that fat girl hanging out with the hot chicks at the bar...talking all big to her friends throughout the night about meeting a hot/nice guy too...but ends up being someone's "hey, I struck out/safety ****" after last call.

Here's how I think this goes:

Sunbelt: O M G....SEC, you are SO pretty!

SEC: You are too! Don't worry Sunny...there's a guy out there for you!

Sunbelt: I hope so!

Followed by.....

Idaho: Hey baby...are you looking for fun? I'm not from around here, but I can show you a good time. Check out these spuds.
Sunbelt: Sure, why not? Just don't tell anyone....

UMass: Hey there! Wanna go out back real fast?
Sunbelt: O M G....NO....my BFF MAC says you are an asshole and you're a "2 pump" chump.

NMSt: Free mustache ride baby?
Sunbelt: Sure cowboy! ;)

Meanwhile, the rest of the state of Louisiana is running train on the belt.... xlolx

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

The Sunbelt is that fat girl hanging out with the hot chicks at the bar...talking all big to her friends throughout the night about meeting a hot/nice guy too...but ends up being someone's "hey, I struck out/safety ****" after last call.

I think in terms of football you have to be pleased with trading North Texas, FIU, FAU, WKU, and MTSU for Georgia Southern and App State.

In terms of basketball though that's probably accurate. They're basically trying to poach basketball programs from the MVC and the WAC.

[BisonFan02]

I think in terms of football you have to be pleased with trading North Texas, FIU, FAU, WKU, and MTSU for Georgia Southern and App State.

In terms of basketball though that's probably accurate. They're basically trying to poach basketball programs from the MVC and the WAC.

Conveniently leave out Troy, Georgia St, etc.? Between Conference USA and the Sunbelt, you can debate between the two which is the fat chick at the bar or the old cat lady sitting at home...but different strokes for different folks I guess.

EDIT: Also, the Sunbelt "poaching" MVC and WAC basketball programs? That's pretty funny.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

Conveniently leave out Troy, Georgia St, etc.? Between Conference USA and the Sunbelt, you can debate between the two which is the fat chick at the bar or the old cat lady sitting at home...but different strokes for different folks I guess.

EDIT: Also, the Sunbelt "poaching" MVC and WAC basketball programs? That's pretty funny.

You realize Troy has been FBS for over a decade now, right? They've done as much or more as any team that's ever been in the Sun Belt. They're just down. Even if we assume Georgia State will suck forever, it's still a good trade.

There's two tiers in the FBS…the P5 and the G5, period. There's not a thing a football program could accomplish in the MAC or CUSA that it can't in the Sun Belt, so from that stand point we are fine. Boise State had their best years so far in the WAC. Being in the Mountain West isn't going to make them that much better at this point.

[hebmskebm]

#FunBelt just doesn't have the same ring that #MACtion has

[Catsfan90]

Here's how I think this goes:

Sunbelt: O M G....SEC, you are SO pretty!

SEC: You are too! Don't worry Sunny...there's a guy out there for you!

Sunbelt: I hope so!

Followed by.....

Idaho: Hey baby...are you looking for fun? I'm not from around here, but I can show you a good time. Check out these spuds.
Sunbelt: Sure, why not? Just don't tell anyone....

UMass: Hey there! Wanna go out back real fast?
Sunbelt: O M G....NO....my BFF MAC says you are an asshole and you're a "2 pump" chump.

NMSt: Free mustache ride baby?
Sunbelt: Sure cowboy! ;)

Meanwhile, the rest of the state of Louisiana is running train on the belt.... xlolx
Hahaha that is hilarious!

[BisonFan02]

You realize Troy has been FBS for over a decade now, right? They've done as much or more as any team that's ever been in the Sun Belt. They're just down. Even if we assume Georgia State will suck forever, it's still a good trade.

There's two tiers in the FBS…the P5 and the G5, period. There's not a thing a football program could accomplish in the MAC or CUSA that it can't in the Sun Belt, so from that stand point we are fine. Boise State had their best years so far in the WAC. Being in the Mountain West isn't going to make them that much better at this point.

Sooooo.......the G5 members are the Christmas Story "toadies" of FBS football? Remember....FCS pwns FBS. xlolx

[clenz]

EDIT: Also, the Sunbelt "poaching" MVC and WAC basketball programs? That's pretty funny.
Only 2 MVC teams would view the Sun Belt as an acceptable move...Misery State and Evansville.

Neither is a top half MVC program and would be programs the MVC would be relatively happy to replace


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[The Eagle's Cliff]

Sooooo.......the G5 members are the Christmas Story "toadies" of FBS football? Remember....FCS pwns FBS. xlolx

G5 schools are akin to Patriot, Pioneer, NEC in FCS....sort of. No doubt the majority of G5's are fodder for the Big P5's, but not so different on the field from the Indiana, Illinois, Wake Forest, Maryland, Virginia, Oregon State, Colorado schools.

I think several FCS schools could compete on the field and with budgets, but reclassifying may not increase market share. Montana and NDSU are bigger than many G5 schools, but being in small (population) states calls into question how much marketing boost they would receive. UTC is ideal in terms of geography, but lacks the fan base at this time and the same goes for EKU.

As a I-AA/FCS fan the last 30 years, I have no complaints about FCS and there are great advantages for 2nd tier schools playing football in that classification. That said, GS and App absolutely made the right decision, especially with Ga State, Charlotte, Mercer, and Kennesaw St starting football. NDSU and Montana don't have to worry about protecting/expanding their market share to sell tickets, merchandise, and gain donors.

Time will tell, but the changes at GS are trending up so far.

[longtimemocfan]

Fan base has grown quite well in recent years... That would be one way to kill it is going to the Sun Belt. I hope in no way do we consider that option.

[chattownmocs]

Chattanoogas athletic performance absolutely dwarfs schools like GSU. I love it though. Chattanooga said "thanks, but no thanks" to the sunbelt the last go around. Not interested.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

G5 schools are akin to Patriot

Rice, Navy and perhaps Tulane are. Carry on.

[longtimemocfan]

Chattown is right about going to the Sun Belt. The Reason I'm glad we declined.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

G5 schools are akin to Patriot, Pioneer, NEC in FCS....sort of. No doubt the majority of G5's are fodder for the Big P5's, but not so different on the field from the Indiana, Illinois, Wake Forest, Maryland, Virginia, Oregon State, Colorado schools.

I think several FCS schools could compete on the field and with budgets, but reclassifying may not increase market share. Montana and NDSU are bigger than many G5 schools, but being in small (population) states calls into question how much marketing boost they would receive. UTC is ideal in terms of geography, but lacks the fan base at this time and the same goes for EKU.

As a I-AA/FCS fan the last 30 years, I have no complaints about FCS and there are great advantages for 2nd tier schools playing football in that classification. That said, GS and App absolutely made the right decision, especially with Ga State, Charlotte, Mercer, and Kennesaw St starting football. NDSU and Montana don't have to worry about protecting/expanding their market share to sell tickets, merchandise, and gain donors.

Time will tell, but the changes at GS are trending up so far.

There's a serious divide that exists within the G5. The AAC and MWC have very little in common with the SBC outside of being part of the G5. The AAC for instance is filled with large, national research universities. The SBC is basically comprised of regional former normal schools. There's also a wide disparity in terms of facilities and athletic budgets between the AAC/MWC schools and the SBC members.

[Baldy]

Chattanoogas athletic performance absolutely dwarfs schools like GSU. I love it though. Chattanooga said "thanks, but no thanks" to the sunbelt the last go around. Not interested.
You have a good women's basketball team.
Other than that...ummm, no.

[The Eagle's Cliff]

There's a serious divide that exists within the G5. The AAC and MWC have very little in common with the SBC outside of being part of the G5. The AAC for instance is filled with large, national research universities. The SBC is basically comprised of regional former normal schools. There's also a wide disparity in terms of facilities and athletic budgets between the AAC/MWC schools and the SBC members.

I was relating in terms of on-field competiveness. The divide isn't as simple as "G5". There are @ 40 schools in a class by themselves with a huge drop in terms of attendance and revenue that follows. The median FBS attendance is still somewhere in the low 40's. Ga Southern will never be Alabama anymore than Holy Cross will ever be Montana or NDSU.

[PaladinFan]

You have a good women's basketball team.
Other than that...ummm, no.

Just to interject, those are last year's commissioner cup standings http://www.soconsports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=4000&ATCLID=264425 This is the year before http://www.soconsports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=4000&ATCLID=207971160

We go back around on this. App State has a long string of men's championships largely because they field more teams than everyone else. UTC fields more teams than Georgia Southern. Georgia Southern also pretty much beats UTC in head to head competition in most sports.

It is an unanswerable question. Is the better athletic program one that is good in most sports, but great in none? It's a black eye that UTC, a university in the South, does not field a baseball team.

I was not aware GSU did not field a men's cross country team. Seems hard to believe.

[Baldy]

Just to interject, those are last year's commissioner cup standings http://www.soconsports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=4000&ATCLID=264425 This is the year before http://www.soconsports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=4000&ATCLID=207971160

We go back around on this. App State has a long string of men's championships largely because they field more teams than everyone else. UTC fields more teams than Georgia Southern. Georgia Southern also pretty much beats UTC in head to head competition in most sports.

It is an unanswerable question. Is the better athletic program one that is good in most sports, but great in none? It's a black eye that UTC, a university in the South, does not field a baseball team.

I was not aware GSU did not field a men's cross country team. Seems hard to believe.
UTC not having a baseball program is really a head scratcher. Chattanooga has one of the most recognizable iconic minor league franchises. It's a baseball town with a top notch stadium with a built in fan base and UTC can't field a baseball team? xconfusedx

Yeah, we ditched our Mens X Country team several years ago, unfortunately.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I was not aware GSU did not field a men's cross country team. Seems hard to believe.


UTC not having a baseball program is really a head scratcher.

You guys have heard about Title IX, right?

[Baldy]

You guys have heard about Title IX, right?
Is there something in the Title IX bylaws that says Chattanooga can't have a baseball team?

It's not like it's wrestling or lacrosse. For many schools, baseball is a revenue generating sport. I'll go out on a limb and say that every SoCon program in history has fielded a baseball team, except UTC. All those schools can field a team with Title IX requirements, so I don't see why they couldn't either.

Hell, UTC even owns a 12,000 seat BASEBALL stadium. xeyebrowx
Some things just don't make sense.

[clenz]

For many schools south of where it is above freezing before the middle of April, baseball is a revenue generating sport.
FIFY

[PaladinFan]

Is there something in the Title IX bylaws that says Chattanooga can't have a baseball team?

It's not like it's wrestling or lacrosse. For many schools, baseball is a revenue generating sport. I'll go out on a limb and say that every SoCon program in history has fielded a baseball team, except UTC. All those schools can field a team with Title IX requirements, so I don't see why they couldn't either.

Hell, UTC even owns a 12,000 seat BASEBALL stadium. xeyebrowx
Some things just don't make sense.

There's a pretty good argument that baseball is the SoCon's best sport.

[blueballs]

Just to interject, those are last year's commissioner cup standings http://www.soconsports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=4000&ATCLID=264425 This is the year before http://www.soconsports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=4000&ATCLID=207971160

We go back around on this. App State has a long string of men's championships largely because they field more teams than everyone else. UTC fields more teams than Georgia Southern. Georgia Southern also pretty much beats UTC in head to head competition in most sports.

It is an unanswerable question. Is the better athletic program one that is good in most sports, but great in none? It's a black eye that UTC, a university in the South, does not field a baseball team.

I was not aware GSU did not field a men's cross country team. Seems hard to believe.

The short answer is to ask the average sports fan on the street if they had ever heard of UT-Chattanooga... then ask them if they've ever heard of Georgia Southern. I live in Central FL and everybody knows who GS is (they beat UF and are "option U") but I'm willing to bet nobody knows who UTC is.

UTC made the sweet sixteen about 20 years ago when they had Johnny Taylor but other than that there is nothing noteworthy about their athletics since.

[clenz]

Get out of the southeast and no one has heard of either.

[FUBeAR]

Get out of the southeast and no one has heard of either.

True dat. I'm from Raleigh, NC and GaSou took NCSU to the wire there last season. I bet if I asked 100 of my HS freens, who still live in Raleigh, if they have ever heard of GaSou, over 70% of them would be like...http://thefeedingdoctor.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/Kid-Confused.jpg


BTW - if it helps salve any ego-wounds my post may cause the proud iggles, they wouldn't know FU either...and FU beat them 2 years in a row in the Mid-80's...so they hired FU's Head Coach...but they STILL couldn't name the school where he came from. If it ain't P5 football or the school isn't in the 'Big Hoops Dance' regularly, it just doesn't register with the casual fan.

[Bisonoline]

The short answer is to ask the average sports fan on the street if they had ever heard of UT-Chattanooga... then ask them if they've ever heard of Georgia Southern. I live in Central FL and everybody knows who GS is (they beat UF and are "option U") but I'm willing to bet nobody knows who UTC is.

UTC made the sweet sixteen about 20 years ago when they had Johnny Taylor but other than that there is nothing noteworthy about their athletics since.

I had never heard of UTC until may 10 years ago until I started to follow FCS.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

The short answer is to ask the average sports fan on the street if they had ever heard of UT-Chattanooga... then ask them if they've ever heard of Georgia Southern. I live in Central FL and everybody knows who GS is (they beat UF and are "option U") but I'm willing to bet nobody knows who UTC is.

UTC made the sweet sixteen about 20 years ago when they had Johnny Taylor but other than that there is nothing noteworthy about their athletics since.

I think more people would have heard of UTC because of basketball. That Sweet 16 run several years still counts for something. They've also been to the tournament relatively recently. The exposure a schools gets by simply showing up on the bracket is extensive.....

[PaladinFan]

I go back to this over and over. Georgia Southern is not a national brand in athletics. UTC is not. NDSU is not. Furman is not.

Most Florida fans had never heard of Furman before we played them a few seasons ago. I imagine most have forgotten they ever did. I would bet the farm most Michigan fans cannot even tell you what state App State is in.

[OL FU]

I go back to this over and over. Georgia Southern is not a national brand in athletics. UTC is not. NDSU is not. Furman is not.

Most Florida fans had never heard of Furman before we played them a few seasons ago. I imagine most have forgotten they ever did. I would bet the farm most Michigan fans cannot even tell you what state App State is in.

I have talked to a lot of UM fans. I have not found a one that has forgotten. Now they may not want to talk about it or may feel a little better about it after last year, but......



Also, there are a lot of people who keep up with football that know NDSU.

but yes for the general fan, not so much.

[walliver]

I go back to this over and over. Georgia Southern is not a national brand in athletics. UTC is not. NDSU is not. Furman is not.

Most Florida fans had never heard of Furman before we played them a few seasons ago. I imagine most have forgotten they ever did. I would bet the farm most Michigan fans cannot even tell you what state App State is in.

Obviously it is the state of Appalachia, although UM fans are still trying to figure out where the University of Appalachia is located.

[PaladinFan]

I have talked to a lot of UM fans. I have not found a one that has forgotten. Now they may not want to talk about it or may feel a little better about it after last year, but......



Also, there are a lot of people who keep up with football that know NDSU.

but yes for the general fan, not so much.

Not suggesting UM fans have forgotten the game, only that they couldn't find App State on a map.

[Baldy]

I go back to this over and over. Georgia Southern is not a national brand in athletics. UTC is not. NDSU is not. Furman is not.

Most Florida fans had never heard of Furman before we played them a few seasons ago. I imagine most have forgotten they ever did. I would bet the farm most Michigan fans cannot even tell you what state App State is in.
Why are you going back to this over and over? xeyebrowx

I don't believe anyone is disagreeing with that point.

[walliver]

Why are you going back to this over and over? xeyebrowx

I don't believe anyone is disagreeing with that point.

The only "national brands" in FCS or the G5 are the Ivies and the Academies. BYU has a niche market.

Being a national brand in football is not important - it just means you will pay much higher ticket prices to sit in bad seats and spending a lot of time waiting for the man with the red hat to leave the field during changes of possession.

[OL FU]

Not suggesting UM fans have forgotten the game, only that they couldn't find App State on a map.


Well in that case sorry. I do know which state UM is in:) but I couldn't tell you which city so I guess I couldn't find it on a map eitherxembarrassedx

[AshevilleApp2]

I go back to this over and over. Georgia Southern is not a national brand in athletics. UTC is not. NDSU is not. Furman is not.

Most Florida fans had never heard of Furman before we played them a few seasons ago. I imagine most have forgotten they ever did. I would bet the farm most Michigan fans cannot even tell you what state App State is in.

I'm both an App and UM fan, and I'd bet the farm that UM fans know the state now. Big difference from game day in 2007, when they were asking me if App was from Pennsylvania.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

The only "national brands" in FCS or the G5 are the Ivies and the Academies. BYU has a niche market.

Being a national brand in football is not important - it just means you will pay much higher ticket prices to sit in bad seats and spending a lot of time waiting for the man with the red hat to leave the field during changes of possession.

I would say the vast majority are of the AAC and MWC are brand names. Boise State, UConn and Cincinnati are absolutely brands names. I'd argue that Temple, Memphis, UCF, New Mexico, UNLV and San Diego State are also brand names.

[FUBeAR]

I would say the vast majority are of the AAC and MWC are brand names. Boise State, UConn and Cincinnati are absolutely brands names. I'd argue that Temple, Memphis, UCF, New Mexico, UNLV and San Diego State are also brand names.

For football - IMO, Boise is the only one in that list that John Q. NationalFan knows anything about...cuz they have a blue field, they played in BCS bowl game, ran a crazy trick play to beat Oklahoma, and some dude proposed to his GF, a cheerleader, on the field, right after the winning score. SOME of the others are known nationally for hoops, Mickey Mouse, and gambling....none for football.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

For football - IMO, Boise is the only one in that list that John Q. NationalFan knows anything about...cuz they have a blue field, they played in BCS bowl game, ran a crazy trick play to beat Oklahoma, and some dude proposed to his GF, a cheerleader, on the field, right after the winning score. SOME of the others are known nationally for hoops, Mickey Mouse, and gambling....none for football.

It depends. I think a lot of people know UCF, Cincinnati and UConn. They won the Fiesta Bowl two years ago and had the #3 pick in the draft. George O'Leary is also a name most college football fans over the age of 25 know. Cincinnati has played in two New Year's Six bowls recently and have been ranked fairly consistently the last decade. They've also become the cradle of coaches. Dantonio, Kelly and Jones, have all moved on to big, BIG jobs. UConn has a Fiesta Bowl to their credit as well as wins over Michigan and Notre Dame. They've gotten pub for being good and bad. The Huskies and Kansas are now the poster children for good basketball and terrible football. Duke use to be that kid...

Boise is the Gonzaga of football. The outlier that gets a seat at the big boys table. If the Broncos go undefeated they've developed enough national support to get into the 4 team playoff. I'm not sure if anyone else would have a legit shot as things currently stand.

[dgtw]

If you are planning on attending the next Sun Belt men's track meet, you won't see UTC.

http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/sports/college/story/2015/jan/28/utc-cutting-mens-track-and-field-teams/285048/

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Not suggesting UM fans have forgotten the game, only that they couldn't find App State on a map.

Can't believe you'd slam Montana fans like that..... :)

[catamount man]

UTC will be in the Sun Belt by January 1, 2020. Bet on it!!!!!!!!!! awesome!!!!!!!!!

[Milktruck74]

UTC will be in the Sun Belt by January 1, 2020. Bet on it!!!!!!!!!! awesome!!!!!!!!!

No idea where you are getting this idea, but if we can't afford to add beach volleyball in order to save our men's track team from the clutches of Title iX..... we ain't going to try and foot the travel bill for joining the NoneBelt!!!!

[parr90]

Chattown is right about going to the Sun Belt. The Reason I'm glad we declined.

Lot of that has to do with the chance that, though Chatt can put together some decent teams and seasons in FCS, they would be terrible in FBS. Chatt doesnt have the appealing factors needed to grow into a successful FBS program. Im not talking money either. Im talking name recognition, winning, recruiting, physical appeal and so on. If you cant get the players you cant win. This is the real reason you would turn them down.

[chattownmocs]

Lot of that has to do with the chance that, though Chatt can put together some decent teams and seasons in FCS, they would be terrible in FBS. Chatt doesnt have the appealing factors needed to grow into a successful FBS program. Im not talking money either. Im talking name recognition, winning, recruiting, physical appeal and so on. If you cant get the players you cant win. This is the real reason you would turn them down.

Wed be one of the top programs in the sun belt right now. With our fcs players. Stfu

[centennial]

Wed be one of the top programs in the sun belt right now. With our fcs players. Stfu
Actually, 2nd last year if we go by Sagarin. Slum belt is a terrible FBS league. However, most years I would expect UTC to be 3rd-5th and make a bowl game every 2-3 years. Look at GoSU they went from a mediocre year to top of the belt. The real question is if SBC would take UTC and the answer is emphatically no. I don't even think they would take NDSU. The schools that they would take are James Madison, Missouri State and maybe a couple of others.

[Milktruck74]

The Sunbelt is trying to establish its brand...they don't care about the ability of a team to win, they care about what market a team can bring with it (fan base). Could Chattanooga compete in Football? Probably. Men's Basketball? Yes. Women's Basketball? They would Dominate. Softball? Yes. Tennis? yes. ...... It's not about being able to compete, the NoneBelt doesn't want the Chattanooga Market. MAybe later, but not now.

[blueballs]

Chatty's most likely finish would have been about 5-7th in the SB in 2014. You can definitely say they were better than Idaho, NMSU, Troy, and GAST. They were not better than GS, ULL, ArkSt, SoAla, TX ST. or App in the second half of the season.

Actually, they reminded me a lot of UL Monroe, pretty darned talented, play hard and is effective, but can't close against the top flight teams.

The depth thing is real though, and only 63 scholarships puts you at a severe disadvantage over the course of 12 games, especially on both lines and defensively.

[BisonFan02]

Chatty's most likely finish would have been about 5-7th in the SB in 2014. You can definitely say they were better than Idaho, NMSU, Troy, and GAST. They were not better than GS, ULL, ArkSt, SoAla, TX ST. or App in the second half of the season.

Actually, they reminded me a lot of UL Monroe, pretty darned talented, play hard and is effective, but can't close against the top flight teams.

The depth thing is real though, and only 63 scholarships puts you at a severe disadvantage over the course of 12 games, especially on both lines and defensively.

Someone should go through a few FBS teams and their team participation stats per game and compare it to FCS. I know its only one game, but NDSU went deeper into their bench rotating players than Kansas St did.

Where I agree with you is on season-to-season depth as far as graduating key players/positions. Its much more important for a FCS school to have a good walkon program to mediate attrition (or go with a glut of FBS transfers) or utilize partials to bring in depth.

[walliver]

The point that many people miss, on this board as well as the SunBelt board, is that FBS is more about institutional marketing than on-field football performance.

UL-M and UL-L know they aren't peers of LSU, but use their FBS branding to imply that they are better than McNeese, Nichols, SELA, et al.

Georgia State was admitted because it is a large institution in a large market, not because of their athletic success (although they do have decent basketball with a good run a few years ago).

Liberty was rejected for marketing reasons, not athletic reasons. The public directional schools that make up the Sun Belt didn't want to be associated with Liberty. I suspect Liberty could actually be more successful at G5 level than in FCS - there are a lot of fundamentalist football players on the East Coast that would go to Liberty to play in FBS.

ASU and GSU were accepted because they were essentially the only two schools willing and actually prepared to move up.

Currently, Liberty is the only school actually poised to move. JMU is routinely rumored to want to move, but has sent mixed signals, and doesn't seem to be doing much publicly to move. Most of the schools bandied about on the SunBelt board are not ready at all. Most are poorly funded with low attendance. If attendance is low now, adding UL-M to your home schedule isn't going to help.

Chatty would be a good addition to the SunBelt, but I don't see it happening. I don't know the financial details, but the athletic department doesn't appear well-funded. No baseball and dropping track is not a harbinger of financial security. Leaving the SoCon and it's bus trips for flights in the Sun Belt makes no sense. If Chatty leaves the SoCon, however, it will be for the belt - both the OVC and CAA would incur additional travel expenses and the Big South is not a viable option at this time. I doubt Chatty moves anytime soon, unless a new financial model develops.

[PaladinFan]

Someone should go through a few FBS teams and their team participation stats per game and compare it to FCS. I know its only one game, but NDSU went deeper into their bench rotating players than Kansas St did.

Where I agree with you is on season-to-season depth as far as graduating key players/positions. Its much more important for a FCS school to have a good walkon program to mediate attrition (or go with a glut of FBS transfers) or utilize partials to bring in depth.

I don't think the point is necessarily depth in a given game, but rather depth over a 12 game season.

You are right, though, on the walkon program. At the FCS level, there is technically more competition but also more of a pool of players. There are, for instance, a lot more 6'3 265 lbs players walking around than 6'7 320 lbs types. Some of the guys that played for lesser known programs or were off the beaten path have the opportunity to show up, be on the team, and earn a spot.

I can think of a few players in the SoCon that were all conference despite playing at little-known small private schools. Coaches aren't beating down the doors to those places, and those guys won't necessarily look good on film given their competition, but they are absolutely the type of players you want in your program.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Liberty was rejected for marketing reasons, not athletic reasons. The public directional schools that make up the Sun Belt didn't want to be associated with Liberty. I suspect Liberty could actually be more successful at G5 level than in FCS - there are a lot of fundamentalist football players on the East Coast that would go to Liberty to play in FBS.

The "association" may have something to do with it, but I think it has more to do with the fact that Liberty would instantly become one of the biggest spenders in the conference. Liberty's athletics expenses were $28 Million; Louisiana-Monroe's is $10 million. I'm not even sure any Sun Belt school hits that level of spending, though some might be close.

[PaladinFan]

The point that many people miss, on this board as well as the SunBelt board, is that FBS is more about institutional marketing than on-field football performance.

UL-M and UL-L know they aren't peers of LSU, but use their FBS branding to imply that they are better than McNeese, Nichols, SELA, et al.

Georgia State was admitted because it is a large institution in a large market, not because of their athletic success (although they do have decent basketball with a good run a few years ago).

Liberty was rejected for marketing reasons, not athletic reasons. The public directional schools that make up the Sun Belt didn't want to be associated with Liberty. I suspect Liberty could actually be more successful at G5 level than in FCS - there are a lot of fundamentalist football players on the East Coast that would go to Liberty to play in FBS.

ASU and GSU were accepted because they were essentially the only two schools willing and actually prepared to move up.

Currently, Liberty is the only school actually poised to move. JMU is routinely rumored to want to move, but has sent mixed signals, and doesn't seem to be doing much publicly to move. Most of the schools bandied about on the SunBelt board are not ready at all. Most are poorly funded with low attendance. If attendance is low now, adding UL-M to your home schedule isn't going to help.

Chatty would be a good addition to the SunBelt, but I don't see it happening. I don't know the financial details, but the athletic department doesn't appear well-funded. No baseball and dropping track is not a harbinger of financial security. Leaving the SoCon and it's bus trips for flights in the Sun Belt makes no sense. If Chatty leaves the SoCon, however, it will be for the belt - both the OVC and CAA would incur additional travel expenses and the Big South is not a viable option at this time. I doubt Chatty moves anytime soon, unless a new financial model develops.

Georgia State is an odd duck. I have literally spent my entire life (outside of the four years at Furman) living in Georgia. I am aware of exactly one person that went to Georgia State for undergrad (granted, I try to avoid Atlanta).

From the outside, that seems almost crazy. It just goes to the point that Georgia State, which perhaps looks good on paper, is virtually unknown outside of Atlanta, even to Georgians. Its brand recognition can be measured in miles.

[longtimemocfan]

This has been discussed over and over. Bottom line we have already been approached by the SBC and have no desire both now or in the near future of moving to that conference. Even if we were loaded say to speak, it wouldn't be in our best interest to make that kind of move.

[blueballs]

Georgia State is an odd duck. I have literally spent my entire life (outside of the four years at Furman) living in Georgia. I am aware of exactly one person that went to Georgia State for undergrad (granted, I try to avoid Atlanta).

From the outside, that seems almost crazy. It just goes to the point that Georgia State, which perhaps looks good on paper, is virtually unknown outside of Atlanta, even to Georgians. Its brand recognition can be measured in miles.

The very definition of a commuter school...

[PaladinFan]

The very definition of a commuter school...

I assume people attend. I've just never met them.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I was curious how Liberty's spending would be in regards to existing Sun Belt schools. New Mexico State (FB Only) came the closest with $25 million, followed closely by Georgia State with $23 million and Texas State with $20 million. The rest are below a boatload of FCS schools and a full $10 million/yr below Liberty's spending.

Also worthy of mention is Texas State and Georgia State is funded massively by student fees and institutional money, more than 3/4s of the revenues of the entire department, or more than $20 million/yr, and NMSU isn't far behind with $19 million. I don't know the particulars of Liberty's finances, and perhaps someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I get the impression that they don't subsidize athletics to the same extent.

[Toby]

The point that many people miss, on this board as well as the SunBelt board, is that FBS is more about institutional marketing than on-field football performance.

UL-M and UL-L know they aren't peers of LSU, but use their FBS branding to imply that they are better than McNeese, Nichols, SELA, et al.

Georgia State was admitted because it is a large institution in a large market, not because of their athletic success (although they do have decent basketball with a good run a few years ago).

Liberty was rejected for marketing reasons, not athletic reasons. The public directional schools that make up the Sun Belt didn't want to be associated with Liberty. I suspect Liberty could actually be more successful at G5 level than in FCS - there are a lot of fundamentalist football players on the East Coast that would go to Liberty to play in FBS.

ASU and GSU were accepted because they were essentially the only two schools willing and actually prepared to move up.

Currently, Liberty is the only school actually poised to move. JMU is routinely rumored to want to move, but has sent mixed signals, and doesn't seem to be doing much publicly to move. Most of the schools bandied about on the SunBelt board are not ready at all. Most are poorly funded with low attendance. If attendance is low now, adding UL-M to your home schedule isn't going to help.

Chatty would be a good addition to the SunBelt, but I don't see it happening. I don't know the financial details, but the athletic department doesn't appear well-funded. No baseball and dropping track is not a harbinger of financial security. Leaving the SoCon and it's bus trips for flights in the Sun Belt makes no sense. If Chatty leaves the SoCon, however, it will be for the belt - both the OVC and CAA would incur additional travel expenses and the Big South is not a viable option at this time. I doubt Chatty moves anytime soon, unless a new financial model develops.

Just to qualify this statement, UTC only dropped MENS track and not WOMENS track. They did this because 9 male track athletes count as 27 male athletes for Title IX purposes (1 each for cross country, indoor track and outdoor track). UTC got more Title IX bang for dropping Men's track versus say men's golf or men's tennis. It did not matter that their were only 9 partial scholarships involved and not 27. I think this was pretty gutless of the UTC administration.

[Milktruck74]

Just to qualify this statement, UTC only dropped MENS track and not WOMENS track. They did this because 9 male track athletes count as 27 male athletes for Title IX purposes (1 each for cross country, indoor track and outdoor track). UTC got more Title IX bang for dropping Men's track versus say men's golf or men's tennis. It did not matter that their were only 9 partial scholarships involved and not 27. I think this was pretty gutless of the UTC administration.


Children should be seen and not heard...When your cubs grow up, we will consider your opinion. Ha.

As much as it sucks, it is the smartest way to address another stupid government intrusion. your 3:1 ratio addresses it pretty well. The problem isn't the UTC administration, it is Title iX.

[dgtw]

They are keeping men's cross country so they can have the minimum number of sports to stay DI. But I think it is going to be a bare bones program.


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[Toby]

Children should be seen and not heard...When your cubs grow up, we will consider your opinion. Ha.

As much as it sucks, it is the smartest way to address another stupid government intrusion. your 3:1 ratio addresses it pretty well. The problem isn't the UTC administration, it is Title iX.

Agree that the initial problem is Title IX. It is always the "unintended" consequences of the liberal do gooders that end up screwing you. However, if UTC had any guts, they would have contested this. After all it helps not one woman. If UTC admin was smart, they would have publicized the issue and given the track program and all the other UTC supporters a chance to raise money to add another women's sports (say sand volleyball or field hockey). But they were just as gutless as UAB.

[Toby]

They are keeping men's cross country so they can have the minimum number of sports to stay DI. But I think it is going to be a bare bones program.


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I've got a good friend in the program. Everyone is either transferring or quitting. You just don't run cross country by itself. Anyone that is any good at all runs all three sports. UTC won't be able to recruit any decent athletes to run just cross country. In addition, the women track athletes say they would not have gone to UTC if they did not have a men's program but would have gone elsewhere. So in the end, you will mess up your women's track program as well because you won't be able to recruit women to run for just a women only track program. So UTC screwed up 6 sports in total.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I've got a good friend in the program. Everyone is either transferring or quitting. You just don't run cross country by itself. Anyone that is any good at all runs all three sports. UTC won't be able to recruit any decent athletes to run just cross country. In addition, the women track athletes say they would not have gone to UTC if they did not have a men's program but would have gone elsewhere. So in the end, you will mess up your women's track program as well because you won't be able to recruit women to run for just a women only track program. So UTC screwed up 6 sports in total.

UTC is not the first and won't be the last school to pull the plug on men's track for Title IX purposes. If anything full cost of attendance will make these types of decisions more prevalent.

[Toby]

UTC is not the first and won't be the last school to pull the plug on men's track for Title IX purposes. If anything full cost of attendance will make these types of decisions more prevalent.

Most of these track athletes get only about a 1/8th to a 1/4 scholarship and participate in 3 sports. Very little athletic scholarship dollars are going to them.

[dgtw]

I've got a good friend in the program. Everyone is either transferring or quitting. You just don't run cross country by itself. Anyone that is any good at all runs all three sports. UTC won't be able to recruit any decent athletes to run just cross country. In addition, the women track athletes say they would not have gone to UTC if they did not have a men's program but would have gone elsewhere. So in the end, you will mess up your women's track program as well because you won't be able to recruit women to run for just a women only track program. So UTC screwed up 6 sports in total.

I truly hate that for your friend. I had read somewhere else about how the XC program would be reduced to crap.


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[walliver]

Agree that the initial problem is Title IX. It is always the "unintended" consequences of the liberal do gooders that end up screwing you. However, if UTC had any guts, they would have contested this. After all it helps not one woman. If UTC admin was smart, they would have publicized the issue and given the track program and all the other UTC supporters a chance to raise money to add another women's sports (say sand volleyball or field hockey). But they were just as gutless as UAB.

What I don't really understand is why this is a Chattanooga-specific issue. Every other school in the SoCon sponsors baseball and track. Obviously, the Citadel and VMI have fewer female students, so Title IX pressures may be lower. UNC-G has no football expenses. Private schools use different accounting rules for athletic expenses - these don't change Title IX requirements, but can make olympic sports less costly, and possibly profitable (especially if the athletes can pay full tuition. Different states have different laws and policies for their state schools, but ETSU still plays baseball.

Is there a specific political environment in Chatty, or is UTC just ahead of the curve?

[Toby]

What I don't really understand is why this is a Chattanooga-specific issue. Every other school in the SoCon sponsors baseball and track. Obviously, the Citadel and VMI have fewer female students, so Title IX pressures may be lower. UNC-G has no football expenses. Private schools use different accounting rules for athletic expenses - these don't change Title IX requirements, but can make olympic sports less costly, and possibly profitable (especially if the athletes can pay full tuition. Different states have different laws and policies for their state schools, but ETSU still plays baseball.

Is there a specific political environment in Chatty, or is UTC just ahead of the curve?

Perhaps having a wrestling program is a difference maker? Most SoCon schools do not. Also UTC is about 55% female.

[dgtw]

Wrestling only gets 9.9 scholarships. A lot fewer than baseball.


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[arkstfan]

As a Moc Fan, I PRAY we never go to the SunBelt. Things are not so Sunny over there for the teams that left. The added revenue that supposedly comes from stepping up in Football is quickly depleated when you have to send your soccer team on a road trip to Idaho.... For the sake of my university, I hope we remain in the bus league (SoCon)....Besides, I like you guys...and I'm getting use to CitDog! HA.

Why in hell would you send your soccer team to play Idaho when they are a football only member though probably only until the end of the 2017 season.

[arkstfan]

This has been discussed over and over. Bottom line we have already been approached by the SBC and have no desire both now or in the near future of moving to that conference. Even if we were loaded say to speak, it wouldn't be in our best interest to make that kind of move.

Actually Chattanooga called the Sun Belt in 2004 and improperly answered the question "What is your timetable to move to FBS".

The only interest I've heard in Chattanooga was as a potential site for a bowl game and that interest has passed.

[arkstfan]

Agree that the initial problem is Title IX. It is always the "unintended" consequences of the liberal do gooders that end up screwing you. However, if UTC had any guts, they would have contested this. After all it helps not one woman. If UTC admin was smart, they would have publicized the issue and given the track program and all the other UTC supporters a chance to raise money to add another women's sports (say sand volleyball or field hockey). But they were just as gutless as UAB.

Many schools had zero women's sports prior to Title IX, now the minimum is 7 for Division I.
I'd say a lot of women have been helped.

[chattownmocs]

Actually Chattanooga called the Sun Belt in 2004 and improperly answered the question "What is your timetable to move to FBS".

The only interest I've heard in Chattanooga was as a potential site for a bowl game and that interest has passed.

Its a good thing you don't know what you are talking about then. What he said wasn't an opinion. It was based on a statement from our previous AD. So unless she was llying they did in fact. Its pretty obvious why they would want UTC, probably above almost all of their current schools. The strange part is that these scrub schools want to claim superiority.

[blueballs]

Cool story...

So the Belt approaches a bottom dweller averaging 4000 or less per home game w/o a baseball program before they approach two blue blood winning programs with 18k+ attendance/game?

Who do you think you are? Georgia State?

[dgtw]

Chattanooga is a good market and a cool town. But if they can't afford to start sand volleyball, bowling or rowing to save track or start baseball, they could not afford FBS.


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[Milktruck74]

I will say, I love the fact that a fan from a school in the MIGHTY FBS SunBelt is coming on our little junior FCS board to call out my itty bitty athletic department for dropping a sport. Although I am not happy about it, our offerings will drop all the way down to the same lowly numbers as your POWERFUL FBS PROGRAM.

[Milktruck74]

If we remove football from the numbers (85vs63) since it isn't even, after Men's Track is dropped, UTC will offer 2.7 more men's scholarships than the MIGHTY Red Puppys, and 7 more females. I think that is pretty solid for a little lower division school. and as far as Baseball goes, all those railing on Chattanooga for not fielding a team...how's your wrestling team doing? We have won 43 conference championships. Has your baseball team done that?

[chattownmocs]

Cool story...

So the Belt approaches a bottom dweller averaging 4000 or less per home game w/o a baseball program before they approach two blue blood winning programs with 18k+ attendance/game?

Who do you think you are? Georgia State?

I don't know what school you are describing.

[MU22]

Wrestling only gets 9.9 scholarships. A lot fewer than baseball.


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Curious how you see 9.9 as a "lot fewer" than 11.7, unless you mean the fact that the 11.7 can be split up and parceled out, for example ... up to "x" players.

[blueballs]

I don't know what school you are describing.

UTC in 2004.... I don't doubt your former AD for a second because as I wrote previously, they took Georgia State.

[PaladinFan]

UTC in 2004.... I don't doubt your former AD for a second because as I wrote previously, they took Georgia State.

Would be interested to know if they regret that decision.

[chattownmocs]

UTC in 2004.... I don't doubt your former AD for a second because as I wrote previously, they took Georgia State.

It was 2012 or 2013. Stfu

[dgtw]

Many schools had zero women's sports prior to Title IX, now the minimum is 7 for Division I.
I'd say a lot of women have been helped.

I agree it is great women have the chance to play college sports. But at some point, Title IX should be phased out as it has achieved its goal.

Here is how I would have mandated gender equity.

All schools must sponsor the same number of women's sports as the do men's. If you sponsor football, you need to have a sport for women only, such as volleyball, to balance things out. (Of course, if you have men's volleyball, you still need another women's sport).

Male and female versions of the same sport must offer the same number of scholarships. If men's basketball gets 13 scholarships, that's how many women get. Baseball and softball get the same number of scholarships.

Yes, football would still throw the numbers out of balance, but you'd still have equal number of athletic opportunities for each gender.

[Toby]

Many schools had zero women's sports prior to Title IX, now the minimum is 7 for Division I.
I'd say a lot of women have been helped.

Read more carefully. I said the current situation at UTC, where they dropped men's track due to Title IX, helps zero women. In fact it will hurt the entire women's cross country, indoor track and outdoor track program.

[Redbirdz]

Let them go to the NFL directly as the greatest college football team ever.