Is it mutually exclusive to like FCS football and not care about the FCS playoffs?

[Sader87]

I like the level of FCS football. It's a very good level of play on the field as well as being kept in (relative) perspective off the field i.e. less scandal or corruption-ridden than our FBS cousins.

That being said, I'm increasingly not that interested in the FCS playoff system for reasons I've stated here in various other threads.

Point being, I don't think the goal or reason for existence of every FCS program is to get to Frisco, Texas in January. For some/many it is and more power to them but I think a school can have a very good program and not participate in the playoffs.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

http://www.threadbombing.com/data/media/2/THISGONBGUD.gif

[bonarae]

I'm not that interested in the playoffs either, especially when the final game participants (at least for 3-5 years) are counted with your fingers.

[FormerPokeCenter]

Perhaps if the Ivies participated, that might be different?? ;)

[lionsrking2]

It's America. You're free to have an opinion.

[rokamortis]

The Pioneer clearly doesn't care - the champs keep finding a way to disqualify themselves.

[Sader87]

The thing is, HC will play a school most years going forward (BC, Syracuse, UConn etc.) that will probably be equivalent or bettah than most of the FCS champs most years. They will play long-time and local rivals like Harvard, UNH and Colgate most years.

What do the FCS playoffs really add to the season for HC football?

I'm not saying HC is above or superior to FCS football...it clearly isn't. I just don't think the playoff system is ultimately that important or interesting to many HC fans and alumni.

[BisonFan02]

Football Championship Subdivision

I'm at a loss for words.....I guess there is nothing stopping conferences/programs for playing glorified intramurals....to each their own?

Drop the FCS nomenclature for something more suitable:

The "Won't play in the playoffs...not good enough for FBS...no commitment to our program" regular season round robin...
The "Dolla bills y'all!" battle of the bands jamboree...
The "Hey! We have D1 football too!" FCS autobid participation award bonanza...

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Drop the Dayton rule. Problem solved.

[PantherRob82]

I like the level of FCS football. It's a very good level of play on the field as well as being kept in (relative) perspective off the field i.e. less scandal or corruption-ridden than our FBS cousins.

That being said, I'm increasingly not that interested in the FCS playoff system for reasons I've stated here in various other threads.

Point being, I don't think the goal or reason for existence of every FCS program is to get to Frisco, Texas in January. For some/many it is and more power to them but I think a school can have a very good program and not participate in the playoffs.

I had no idea you weren't interested in the playoffs. :D

[ursus arctos horribilis]

The thing is, HC will play a school most years going forward (BC, Syracuse, UConn etc.) that will probably be equivalent or bettah than most of the FCS champs most years. They will play long-time and local rivals like Harvard, UNH and Colgate most years.

What do the FCS playoffs really add to the season for HC football?

I'm not saying HC is above or superior to FCS football...it clearly isn't. I just don't think the playoff system is ultimately that important or interesting to many HC fans and alumni.

I don't think it is that important to you (HC) either. Good for you? It's important to the players. It's sad alumni and schools don't try and maximize that for their athletes if they do not but I ain't got a problem with it.

Please carry on about how much it means to play regional teams like BC...it's very interesting. xlolx

[bonarae]

The Pioneer clearly doesn't care - the champs keep finding a way to disqualify themselves.

And they are clearly not worthy of the big stage. xrolleyesx


Drop the Dayton rule. Problem solved.

Yes. Drop it within the next 5 years... and we'll see what happens to D-II and D-III.

[Sader87]

Drop the Dayton rule. Problem solved.

That's not the issue though....HC should and will remain at the D1 level for football.

I just think that most HC fans are satisfied with playing their regular season schedule....the playoff system ultimately adds little to the season and in many ways is more detrimental (playing in the exam period, playing at a time {Decembah/January}etc) than beneficial to the players and their fans.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

That's not the issue though....HC should and will remain at the D1 level for football.

I just think that most HC fans are satisfied with playing their regular season schedule....the playoff system ultimately adds little to the season and in many ways is more detrimental (playing in the exam period, playing at a time {Decembah/January}etc) than beneficial to the players and their fans.

Then move up to FBS. We play for a championship on this level.

[Sader87]

That's my point of this thread though....FCS is the right level for HC for obvious reasons.....but I don't think the FCS playoff system is ultimately that important to the school and its fans.

[BisonFan02]

That's my point of this thread though....FCS is the right level for HC for obvious reasons.....but I don't think the FCS playoff system is ultimately that important to the school and its fans.

Name them....

[Sader87]

Name them....

HC is too small of a school to play at the FBS level for one.

Most of our long-time rivals play at this level

D1 football is good for alumni/student functions and school branding.

Playing at the D1 level allows HC to play a yearly FBS opponent. Which ties into the reason above.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

HC is too small of a school to play at the FBS level for one.

Most of our long-time rivals play at this level

D1 football is good for alumni/student functions and school branding.

Playing at the D1 level allows HC to play a yearly FBS opponent. Which ties into the reason above.

So pretending you're DI is good enough?

[BisonFan02]

HC is too small of a school to play at the FBS level for one.

Most of our long-time rivals play at this level

D1 football is good for alumni/student functions and school branding.

Playing at the D1 level allows HC to play a yearly FBS opponent. Which ties into the reason above.

See my first post in this thread. Drop the FCS in front of the football in your thread title...admit that schools like HC (or others that share your opinion) only play "FCS" football because they HAVE to as a DI program (see Dayton Rule)...

Close the loophole....

[Sader87]

So pretending you're DI is good enough?

How will a 60 scholarship team be pretending they are D1?

HC has basically as good, if not bettah, facilities (or will soon) overall than programs like NDSU.

Again, not saying we are the bettah program than an NDSU, but that the playoff system is not the be all and end all for HC.

[NoCoDanny]

It's boring... props to ND State but geez are they boring...

[OL FU]

I think it depends on how you define FCS. Using the technical definition of schools with 63 scholarships or less, then no. If you define FCS as a sub-division that after the football season is over participates in a playoff to determine a national championship, then yes. Truthfully, I know less about the Ivies and the SWAC simply because they do not participate. I know that my school or schools in my conference probably won't play them, so my interest wanes. I am interested in NDSU, Montana, SELA, Fordham, Delaware etc for the exact opposite reason. If the playoffs ended tomorrow, would I still love my school's team, would I still be interested in my conference, would I be interested in the regional opponents we play in differing years? Yes. Would I be interested in FCS as whole? Probably, but at a much diminished level.

[bonarae]

I think it depends on how you define FCS.

Over the years that I have observed the Crimson, my desire for rooting the scholarship teams has increased with each passing year due to the Ivies' indifference to postseason football. But I can't really leave my first love, hence my dual rooting next season.

As for the national scope of the FCS, I like the diversity in the regional powers, unlike (to some extent) D-II and (mostly) D-III, where it is biased towards one region.

[UNHWildcat18]

I Like the playoffs are great but I think
the weekends for them are awful in terms of thanksgiving for some then finals week or when students are gone after finals week. Wish they would start a week earlier. I really wish some leagues didn't have an auto bid and we cut the number down to 20
again. Sorry pioneer get the **** out of here, sorry NEC your league was much better this year and I support you guys but at 40 scholly your teams aren't getting past the first round and if they do they still won't go far. Sorry harsh but sad truth.

[IBleedYellow]

Is there a trend to constantly downtalk the division you are in, and the entire point of the division, if you aren't at all an egotistical, narcissistic asshole?

[BISON Thunder]

This thread proves folks are getting pretty bored here at AGS. To get things going again, can someone start a thread titled "Has NDSU's Move To The FCS Been Good Or Bad For The Subdivision?"?

[Ivytalk]

HC is too small of a school to play at the FBS level for one.

Most of our long-time rivals play at this level

D1 football is good for alumni/student functions and school branding.

Playing at the D1 level allows HC to play a yearly FBS opponent. Which ties into the reason above.

Well put. And there are too many narcissistic, egotistical assholes on the Ivy boards.;)

[MR. CHICKEN]

That's not the issue though....HC should and will remain at the D1 level for football.

I just think that most HC fans are satisfied with playing their regular season schedule....the playoff system ultimately adds little to the season and in many ways is more detrimental (playing in the exam period, playing at a time {Decembah/January}etc) than beneficial to the players and their fans.

20430.....WONDERAH..DUH INTEREST......SAY HOLY COW......SHOOD EVERAH......CONSISTENTLAH GO DANCIN'........EXAM PERIOD IS UH NO PROB...... 24 SQWADS....GET IT DONE....EVERAH SEASON.........PLAYERS STAY IN FOOTBALL SHAPE YEAR ROUND....FO' JES' 11/12 GAMES.....AH'D BET...DUH EXTRA PARTICIPATION....IS WHAT PLAYERS WANT.......YA LIVE IN NEW ENGLAND.....GONNAH LET DECEMBER GET DUH BEST O' YA'S.....C'MON MAN....YER REACHIN' LAD.......xrolleyesx...BRAWK!

....WHAA'S UP......WHIFF ALL DUH SENTIMENT.....THROUGHOUT SEVERALAH THREADS.....POSTERS QUESTIONIN'..DUH VALIDITY O' PLAY-OFFS....# O' TEAMS IN TOURNEY....REGIONAL PAIRIN'.....MEACC/SWACC BOWLS.....COMPLAIN' NCAA IS 'BOUT DUH $$ DUCATS......WOOD BIZONS FANS.....LEAVE DUH WINDERS UP....IN FARGO.....AFTERAH OCTOBER........AH'M UH HAWG FO' PIGGY.......WHEN DUH FINAL WHISTLE GOES OFF IN FRISCO......AH'M WAITIN' FO' SIGNIN' DAY/SPRING GAME/FALL CAMP......&.....SO ARE MOST OTHERAHS.......OR DIS BOARD....WOOD JES' BE UH HOME SHOPPIN' SITE....'SPECIALIZIN' IN FLASHLIGHTS &...SNEAKS.....xmadx...AWK!

[Laker]

I like high school football. I like high school playoffs. My school finished runnerup in Minnesota three times.

I like junior college football. I like junior college playoffs. My school lost two games in two years and missed the playoffs by a coin flip when I played there.

I like NAIA football. I like NAIA playoffs. I pull for Morningside since they used to play in the NCC.

I like D3 football. I like D3 playoffs despite the fact that they could schedule Whitewater vs Mount Union every year.

I like D2 football. I like D2 playoffs. MSU finished second this year and I'm still disappointed.

I like FCS football. I like FCS playoffs. I like to watch the former NCC schools do well.

I like FBS or what ever they call it now football. I like the step towards actual FBS playoffs. I don't like Ohio State but I was a Buckeye fan when they beat Bama.

I like NFL football- just not as much as other levels. I like NFL playoffs. As a Viking fan I understand frustration.

I think that your goal should be to win the highest title at your level. It may be unrealistic but it is your goal. I don't know why you would not enjoy them- you get to see the best teams play each other for a real prize.

I played four sports in high school- football, basketball, baseball and track. But football was always my favorite. And the glory of victory and the agony of defeat is no more evident that when you are in the playoffs.

[MR. CHICKEN]

I like high school football. I like high school playoffs. My school finished runnerup in Minnesota three times.

I like junior college football. I like junior college playoffs. My school lost two games in two years and missed the playoffs by a coin flip when I played there.

I like NAIA football. I like NAIA playoffs. I pull for Morningside since they used to play in the NCC.

I like D3 football. I like D3 playoffs despite the fact that they could schedule Whitewater vs Mount Union every year.

I like D2 football. I like D2 playoffs. MSU finished second this year and I'm still disappointed.

I like FCS football. I like FCS playoffs. I like to watch the former NCC schools do well.

I like FBS or what ever they call it now football. I like the step towards actual FBS playoffs. I don't like Ohio State but I was a Buckeye fan when they beat Bama.

I like NFL football- just not as much as other levels. I like NFL playoffs. As a Viking fan I understand frustration.

I think that your goal should be to win the highest title at your level. It may be unrealistic but it is your goal. I don't know why you would not enjoy them- you get to see the best teams play each other for a real prize.

I played four sports in high school- football, basketball, baseball and track. But football was always my favorite. And the glory of victory and the agony of defeat is no more evident that when you are in the playoffs.

....DAT'S WHAA AH'M TALKIN' 'BOUT...........BRAWK!

[PAllen]

Clearly they are not mutually exclusive for the MEAC, SWAC, and Ivy schools as well as the vast majority of alumni and students at most FCS schools. The playoffs are fun when your team is in it. But, I have to admit, that once the last PL team is out of it, I don't really care all that much. Someone said (I think it was a HC fan, but don't remember) in one of these threads that if their PL team were to drop participation in the playoffs in favor of a postseason "bowl" against an Ivy league team, that most fans and supporters would not be upset, and I'd have to agree that that would hold with most PL schools.

To hijack the thread a little bit. What happens to the playoffs if that hypothetical occurs? Can you really call it a National Championship if the MEAC, SWAC, Ivy, and say the PL, Pioneer, and even NEC as some would have it, don't participate? You'd have almost as many (I'm to lazy to look it up) teams not participating as participating.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Clearly they are not mutually exclusive for the MEAC, SWAC, and Ivy schools as well as the vast majority of alumni and students at most FCS schools. The playoffs are fun when your team is in it. But, I have to admit, that once the last PL team is out of it, I don't really care all that much. Someone said (I think it was a HC fan, but don't remember) in one of these threads that if their PL team were to drop participation in the playoffs in favor of a postseason "bowl" against an Ivy league team, that most fans and supporters would not be upset, and I'd have to agree that that would hold with most PL schools.

To hijack the thread a little bit. What happens to the playoffs if that hypothetical occurs? Can you really call it a National Championship if the MEAC, SWAC, Ivy, and say the PL, Pioneer, and even NEC as some would have it, don't participate? You'd have almost as many (I'm to lazy to look it up) teams not participating as participating.

yes, you can. None of those leagues has ever produced a champion. Just like the Mountian West, CUSA, Sun Belt, et al. will never produce a champion.

[IBleedYellow]

Clearly they are not mutually exclusive for the MEAC, SWAC, and Ivy schools as well as the vast majority of alumni and students at most FCS schools. The playoffs are fun when your team is in it. But, I have to admit, that once the last PL team is out of it, I don't really care all that much. Someone said (I think it was a HC fan, but don't remember) in one of these threads that if their PL team were to drop participation in the playoffs in favor of a postseason "bowl" against an Ivy league team, that most fans and supporters would not be upset, and I'd have to agree that that would hold with most PL schools.

To hijack the thread a little bit. What happens to the playoffs if that hypothetical occurs? Can you really call it a National Championship if the MEAC, SWAC, Ivy, and say the PL, Pioneer, and even NEC as some would have it, don't participate? You'd have almost as many (I'm to lazy to look it up) teams not participating as participating.

So then we'd have the conferences that actually have chances at winning the National Title. It would be business as usual and the conferences that care enough to invest in FCS football and want to win a title would be the only ones going for it.

However, if you listen to ANY player in most of these conferences they will stated they want to win a FCS Title. The Wedge interviewed Freshman RB from Fordham last week his exact words were "The Goal every year is to win a National Championship, nothing less."

Seriously, your alumni base may not care, but you can be damn sure the kids, the players, the ones that matter, care.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

So then we'd have the conferences that actually have chances at winning the National Title. It would be business as usual and the conferences that care enough to invest in FCS football and want to win a title would be the only ones going for it.

However, if you listen to ANY player in most of these conferences they will stated they want to win a FCS Title. The Wedge interviewed Freshman RB from Fordham last week his exact words were "The Goal every year is to win a National Championship, nothing less."

Seriously, your alumni base may not care, but you can be damn sure the kids, the players, the ones that matter, care.

too that end, you will eventually start to lose recruits no matter how good your school is. These kids want to play championship football on television.

[PAllen]

I'm sure that the players, coaches, and everyone else directly involved with the team care very much. I'm just pointing out the reality that at most schools at this level, including most of those that "care enough to invest in FCS football", most of the alumni and student body don't care enough about the football team to show up at games, let alone follow teams from other leagues in the playoffs.

[OL FU]

I'm sure that the players, coaches, and everyone else directly involved with the team care very much. I'm just pointing out the reality that at most schools at this level, including most of those that "care enough to invest in FCS football", most of the alumni and student body don't care enough about the football team to show up at games, let alone follow teams from other leagues in the playoffs.

It would still be a Nat'l championship just like it is today without Ivy or SWAC participation. If a league doesn't want to try, then so be it. Now if for some unthinkable reason, only a handful of conferences decided to participate that might be another story.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

I love FCS and the playoffs! But, I prefer the playoffs at 16 teams. The current format strings things out too long.

[NY Crusader 2010]

That's not the issue though....HC should and will remain at the D1 level for football.

I just think that most HC fans are satisfied with playing their regular season schedule....the playoff system ultimately adds little to the season and in many ways is more detrimental (playing in the exam period, playing at a time {Decembah/January}etc) than beneficial to the players and their fans.

If we won the FIRST TWO games, there would be ONE game during exam period. The first round is during Thanksgiving break and the semis and final of the playoffs is during Winter Break!!

[NY Crusader 2010]

Someone said (I think it was a HC fan, but don't remember) in one of these threads that if their PL team were to drop participation in the playoffs in favor of a postseason "bowl" against an Ivy league team, that most fans and supporters would not be upset, and I'd have to agree that that would hold with most PL schools.



The Ivy League has ZERO interest in this. This concept has been, for all intents and purposes, dead for 25 years. If they Ivy League has stuck there nose in the air at the idea of playing in major bowl games and then FCS playoffs for 60 years, do you really think their going to embrace the idea of upstaging Harvard-Yale to send their champ to play Lehigh or Colgate?

[Mattymc727]

I LOVE the FCS playoffs, and I think you are nuts if you don't find them exciting and entertaining at all.

That said, this is the least excited Ive ever been for a title game since Ive been watching.

[KPSUL]

Getting back to the original question, yes it is perfectly ok to enjoy FCS football at the conference level without out following the playoffs. No need to call your therapist or change your AGS avatar to a paperbag with two eyeholes.

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

Maybe if HC participated once in awhile, you'd be more interested! Your Patriot League compadres definitely seem more interested. They really embrace the challenge of representing on the national level.

My Alma Mater has made the playoff 11 seasons in a row and they've made the semi-finals two seasons in a row. There is ZERO evidence of any negative impact on academics. Yeah, it's cold and it's the Holiday season and crowds can be smaller, but I've found the interest level and excitement to be significantly increased. 87, were you paying any attention to what was happening up in Durham this past December? Or go back to last year, did you see the overflow, excited crowd up at Maine when they played UNH in the playoffs? Do you recall the sold out, electric McGuirk Stadium in 2006 when UNH played UMass in the Quarterfinals? How about sold out Cowell Stadium in the 2005 playoff games against Colgate and UNI?

All I know is that the FCS Playoffs and the successful football seasons at UNH have significantly increased alumni involvement and donations. The national exposure from games on ESPN could never have been obtained elsewhere. Over the past few years, student's "school spirit" has grown incredibly which bodes well for the future. The playoff games this year had some of the most engaged, vocal crowds ever seen in venerable old Cowell Stadium. And the playoffs provide opportunities to play opponents from other parts of the country which wouldn't occur otherwise. Yeah, it still hurts that I'm not going to Texas this week, but the memories of the incredible experiences along the way this season will eventually soothe that hurt. And I know I don't care how cold or wet it was this December, those three playoff games were a blast!!!!

I also have to state my observations of the HC fans from 40+ years of watching UNH and New England sports. Frankly, your fan base has always had an inflated sense of your team's quality. While not as arrogant as those Chestnut Hill Beagles, but enough so that I often refer to HC as "BC Lite". Looks like your fan base would rather insulate themselves than have the nation see they really aren't as good as they think they are. Or live in the past because of the illusion playing BC and Syracuse would create. Just like the Ivy League who because they aren't a national force any more would rather just play amongst themselves and a few Patriot and Pioneer who they view as "soul mates".

It would have been real easy for UNH to drop scholarships and move to the NEC just after the turn of the century. I'm extremely proud that they chose instead to strive for excellence and become a top FCS program. It's pretty sad that the Ivy and now apparently HC no longer have such a drive for excellence. And I have no illusions of grandeur, I know UNH may never win a National Championship, but I'll continue to enjoy their effort to win one and enjoy the incredible football games the playoffs provide!!! I could never be satisfied with just ending the season with a Musket Battle!

[MR. CHICKEN]

too that end, you will eventually start to lose recruits no matter how good your school is. These kids want to play championship football on television.


20432......OWN-LAH..SO MANY ROSTER SPOTS......FO' FBS FOOTBALL TEAMS.....YA CAN STILL PLAY FO' 'SHIPS...ON FCS TV....(GET DRAFTED & MAKE DUH PROS)...AN' TOO DOSE WHO THINK......FCS SKOOLS DON'T GIVE.......AH'D BET....MOS' IFIN' NOT ALL COACHES...HAVE CONTRACTS...DAT PAY BONUS'S....FO' PLAY-OFFS...AN' NATIONAL TITLE.....DEY MAY NOT HAVE DUCATS...FO' NEW STADIUMS/PRESS BOXS/O'...TRAVEL TA FARAWAY...NON-CONFERENCE GAMES......BUT DEY'RE IN IT WHIFF WHAT DEY'VE GOT........xnodx....BRAWK!


EAT MO' BEEF!

SENT FROM MAH COMPUTER.....HAL

[UNHWildcat18]

I LOVE the FCS playoffs, and I think you are nuts if you don't find them exciting and entertaining at all.

That said, this is the least excited Ive ever been for a title game since Ive been watching.

i could not agree more. I'm happy for NDSU fans on their success and potential four peat but it gets so ****ing annoying watching the championship with only one new team per year. We need two new teams in the championship. Don't give a **** about this championship. Having two MVFC teams is even worse than having NDSU plus one from another conference too.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Don't worry guys. We're excited enough for all of you.

[WestCoastAggie]

The FCS Playoff System needs to be reformed.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

The FCS Playoff System needs to be reformed.

How so?

[Herder]

I'm not that interested in the playoffs either, especially when the final game participants (at least for 3-5 years) are counted with your fingers.

Step it up then pussies!

[ngineer]

I'm sure that the players, coaches, and everyone else directly involved with the team care very much. I'm just pointing out the reality that at most schools at this level, including most of those that "care enough to invest in FCS football", most of the alumni and student body don't care enough about the football team to show up at games, let alone follow teams from other leagues in the playoffs.

Good observation. I think the vast majority of the students and alumni only have a 'casual' interest in how any of the athletic teams are doing. Attendance is poor at all sports. The big crowds will turn out for "the big game" but not on a regular basis as a 'rabid' fan base would be expected. The culture has changed dramatically in the past 20 years. I still think playing in the FCS is worthwhile because it does allow for your teams to have a goal for which to shoot and it provides a challenge to "play up" with opportunities to test oneself against programs that take it more seriously. For many, it's the journey that is rewarding.

[kdinva]

Drop the FCS nomenclature for something more suitable:

The "Won't play in the playoffs...not good enough for FBS...no commitment to our program" regular season round robin...
The "Dolla bills y'all!" battle of the bands jamboree...
The "Hey! We have D1 football too!" FCS autobid participation award bonanza...

+1

[CommishBigSmooth]

The FCS Playoff System needs to be reformed.

Yes. Eliminate regionalization.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Football Championship Subdivision

I'm at a loss for words.....I guess there is nothing stopping conferences/programs for playing glorified intramurals....to each their own?

Drop the FCS nomenclature for something more suitable:

The "Won't play in the playoffs...not good enough for FBS...no commitment to our program" regular season round robin...
The "Dolla bills y'all!" battle of the bands jamboree...
The "Hey! We have D1 football too!" FCS autobid participation award bonanza...

spot ****ing on.

[kdinva]

It would still be a Nat'l championship just like it is today without Ivy or SWAC participation. If a league doesn't want to try, then so be it..

xnodx

[Laker]

Gordon Lochbaum would be interested in playoffs. :D

[bonarae]

Good observation. I think the vast majority of the students and alumni only have a 'casual' interest in how any of the athletic teams are doing. Attendance is poor at all sports. The big crowds will turn out for "the big game" but not on a regular basis as a 'rabid' fan base would be expected. The culture has changed dramatically in the past 20 years. I still think playing in the FCS is worthwhile because it does allow for your teams to have a goal for which to shoot and it provides a challenge to "play up" with opportunities to test oneself against programs that take it more seriously. For many, it's the journey that is rewarding.

Yes, I agree for most. TV may be the only thing that differs the "haves" from the "have-nots".


Clearly they are not mutually exclusive for the MEAC, SWAC, and Ivy schools as well as the vast majority of alumni and students at most FCS schools. The playoffs are fun when your team is in it. But, I have to admit, that once the last PL team is out of it, I don't really care all that much. Someone said (I think it was a HC fan, but don't remember) in one of these threads that if their PL team were to drop participation in the playoffs in favor of a postseason "bowl" against an Ivy league team, that most fans and supporters would not be upset, and I'd have to agree that that would hold with most PL schools.

To hijack the thread a little bit. What happens to the playoffs if that hypothetical occurs? Can you really call it a National Championship if the MEAC, SWAC, Ivy, and say the PL, Pioneer, and even NEC as some would have it, don't participate? You'd have almost as many (I'm to lazy to look it up) teams not participating as participating.

Paragraph 1: I'm not in favor of a "bowl" between the PL and the Ivy. Give me a SWAC/MEAC-Ivy "bowl"... the historic powers from generations ago...

Paragraph 2: If the hypothetical occurs, the FCS championship would be called by many negative names because only half or even less of the teams in the subdivision are participating.


So then we'd have the conferences that actually have chances at winning the National Title. It would be business as usual and the conferences that care enough to invest in FCS football and want to win a title would be the only ones going for it.

However, if you listen to ANY player in most of these conferences they will stated they want to win a FCS Title. The Wedge interviewed Freshman RB from Fordham last week his exact words were "The Goal every year is to win a National Championship, nothing less."

Seriously, your alumni base may not care, but you can be damn sure the kids, the players, the ones that matter, care.

Do the players' (and sometimes the coaches') voices matter? Yes. But oftentimes it is the alumni base and the higher administration's voices that matter more. xsmhx


I'm sure that the players, coaches, and everyone else directly involved with the team care very much. I'm just pointing out the reality that at most schools at this level, including most of those that "care enough to invest in FCS football", most of the alumni and student body don't care enough about the football team to show up at games, let alone follow teams from other leagues in the playoffs.

+1 - they only follow their own team, unlike some of us who care to follow other teams in the playoffs.


The Ivy League has ZERO interest in this. This concept has been, for all intents and purposes, dead for 25 years. If they Ivy League has stuck there nose in the air at the idea of playing in major bowl games and then FCS playoffs for 60 years, do you really think their going to embrace the idea of upstaging Harvard-Yale to send their champ to play Lehigh or Colgate?

Not sure about this if this decision will be reversed in our lifetime. End regionalization first then we'll see what would happen.... xchinscratchx

[caribbeanhen]

That's my point of this thread though....FCS is the right level for HC for obvious reasons.....but I don't think the FCS playoff system is ultimately that important to the school and its fans.

87, I have 2 questions and a Caribbean comment

When was the last time HC made the playoffs? and

do HC fans still remember your a playoff eligible team?


sounds like you guys just gave up

[Bisonwinagn]

Well the Playoff's are the ONLY thing that really matters. The regular season is for tailgating, practicing, and winning enough games to get a high seed in the playoffs. The regular season means absolutely nothing in the big scheme of things. If my team is not in the playoffs I probably wouldn't care or watch either, but it doesn't lessen the fact that it is the only thing that matters.

[Sader87]

87, I have 2 questions and a Caribbean comment

When was the last time HC made the playoffs? and

do HC fans still remember your a playoff eligible team?


sounds like you guys just gave up

Actually not all that long ago, we lost at Villanova in 2009. 38-28 I think off the top of my head. Nova went on to win it all that year.

Only other FCS (then 1-AA) game was in was at Fitton in 1983....tough 28-21 loss to a good Western Carolina team that went to the final.

PL football teams didn't participate in the FCS playoffs from 1986 to the late 1990s I believe.

As for giving up...we basically did when we went non-scholarship completely in the 90s. Program and support for the program spiraled downward.

[Dane96]

I like the level of FCS football. It's a very good level of play on the field as well as being kept in (relative) perspective off the field i.e. less scandal or corruption-ridden than our FBS cousins.

That being said, I'm increasingly not that interested in the FCS playoff system for reasons I've stated here in various other threads.

Point being, I don't think the goal or reason for existence of every FCS program is to get to Frisco, Texas in January. For some/many it is and more power to them but I think a school can have a very good program and not participate in the playoffs.

Do you have any hobbies? If not, try getting into at least one hobby. You're obsession on this subject is borderline ridiculous. How many more threads are you going to start to get your point across?

[Bisonator]

For someone who doesn't care for and insists he's not interested in the FCS playoffs Sader sure posts a lot about them.xrolleyesx

[HoyaMetanoia]

I think one of the major problems re: interest in the playoffs is that you have a bunch of MVFC teams competing that most people around the country have never heard of.

I bet you'd have a pretty healthy portion of the country who would guess "made up school" when asked if NDSU was a real or fake school name.

[number1]

When is the game? It has been a while since the last playoff game.

[Hammerhead]

I didn't care about watching the FCS playoffs until NDSU was in them and I have no idea how interested I'll be if NDSU isn't in them again. The Vikings aren't in the NFL playoffs and even though I told myself I don't care about the wildcard games, I watched all 4 of them although I took a nap during two of the games.

[Sader87]

Do you have any hobbies? If not, try getting into at least one hobby. You're obsession on this subject is borderline ridiculous. How many more threads are you going to start to get your point across?

How is this not a germane topic to discuss here?

It's an important topic as D1 football is a very expensive proposition. It affects Holy Cross in a whole host of ways athletically/academically/institutionally.

I'm a huge fan of HC football and have been for 40+ years as my Dad was an HC alum and HC fan as well....I want to see it continue. I'm not calling for HC to drop football as some have at HC now and ovah the years.

I'm just curious what others think HC's raison d'etre for having football should/could be. Can an FCS program be viable financially and be very competitive on the field itself without being a participant in the playoff system?

[Go...gate]

Drop the Dayton rule. Problem solved.

An idea whose time came many years ago.

[Go...gate]

Do you have any hobbies? If not, try getting into at least one hobby. You're obsession on this subject is borderline ridiculous. How many more threads are you going to start to get your point across?

Come on Dane96! That is not how we act on this board. Show some courtesy and respect, please.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

This is the same old chestnut about nomenclature that has been in existence between I-A and I-AA.

When the subdivision was called I-AA, there was no problem. I-AA means, basically, not I-A. No championship is implied. If you want to only schedule games against other league schools and the College of Faith, knock yourselves out.

But the best schools of I-AA that were state schools (Eastern Washington, Northern Iowa, etc.) didn't like the term I-A. They said that bigger schools (Iowa, Washington) were saying that EWU and UNI were I-AA athletic programs in recruiting battles in other critical sports like basketball. Thus, a movement was born to change I-A and I-AA to FBS and FCS. It succeeded.

But now Championship is baked into the name, which seems to try to say that the difference between FCS and FBS is that is has its own NCAA-sponsored championship. But there are two (potentially now three) conferences that chose not to participate in that championship. That seems (and is, IMO) in really bad faith concerning the great majority of schools and conferences that do care about competing for a championship. That the schools have differing levels of scholarships and "scholarships" is immaterial. It's a championship. They're Division I.

And that's just it. I-AA was a name not born because of the playoffs but because of scholarship levels and cost-containment. The Ivy saw I-AA as appropriate because they considered themselves non-scholarship and wanted to be D-I. The Patriot League wanted to be like the Ivy League. The Dayton Rule schools wanted to be D-I but didn't want to shell out for any scholarships. But many others were forced from the FBS scene, like all the members of the Southland and Missouri Valley, saying that there were different rules and they needed to adapt. Very much to their credit, they did so.

What has emerged as the uneasy alliance between the schools that do participate and those that don't participate is that: you can do so, just don't ever expect to be rated the No. 1 school in the FCS nation, don't expect your athletes to get full, proper FCS-wide recognition, and don't complain.

Holy Cross may want to fall in that category, but I don't think they do, and I also don't think Sader87 is willing to commit Holy Cross to that purgatory either.

[NDSUstudent]

I didn't care about watching the FCS playoffs until NDSU was in them and I have no idea how interested I'll be if NDSU isn't in them again. The Vikings aren't in the NFL playoffs and even though I told myself I don't care about the wildcard games, I watched all 4 of them although I took a nap during two of the games.

I'm with you on this one. NEVER cared about the FCS playoffs until NDSU was in them. If NDSU ever moves up I will probably never watch the FCS playoffs again.

[Herder]

I think one of the major problems re: interest in the playoffs is that you have a bunch of MVFC teams competing that most people around the country have never heard of.

I bet you'd have a pretty healthy portion of the country who would guess "made up school" when asked if NDSU was a real or fake school name.

I am very sure that everyone in B1G country if not the entire country is familiar with North Dakota State University due to many of its football games on ESPN netowrks, college gameday appearances, and its win in the NCAA basketball tournament last year (college softball super regional, baseball game vs Oregon State#1 last year, Wrestler losing in the national championship match last year finishing 3rd, do you want me to go on?). I'm sure that those same fans would be shocked if you told them that Georgetown had a football team, or anything other than BB.

Half of the MVFC is in the MVC for basketball, and most of the others are THE primary institutions in their state. You must not be very educated to make the statements you are making.

[JMU Newbill]

I haven't watched or really kept up with the FCS playoffs after JMU got eliminated.

[Bisonator]

I think most people follow their teams. If they aren't in it then they won't pay attention.

[344Johnson]

I am very sure that everyone in B1G country if not the entire country is familiar with North Dakota State University due to many of its football games on ESPN netowrks, college gameday appearances, and its win in the NCAA basketball tournament last year (college softball super regional, baseball game vs Oregon State#1 last year, Wrestler losing in the national championship match last year finishing 3rd, do you want me to go on?). I'm sure that those same fans would be shocked if you told them that Georgetown had a football team, or anything other than BB.

Half of the MVFC is in the MVC for basketball, and most of the others are THE primary institutions in their state. You must not be very educated to make the statements you are making.

You know a lot of people don't watch sports right?

I think big college fans... Particularly football ones can tell ya who NDSU is.

[Dane96]

Come on Dane96! That is not how we act on this board. Show some courtesy and respect, please.

Are you joking? What was disrespectful? He truly has an unhealthy obsession with this subject. Two threads have been started by Sader in the last 10 days or so on the same subject. He didn't like the answers he was receiving in the first thread...and now this thread is meant to do what...drive people to agree with his side.

Is he entitled to an opinion, yes. Should I not read his threads on this subject...probably. But to keep going on, and on about the same subject...in addition to the insane number of "PL Hijacked threads"...is just becoming an annoyance.

Some Holy Cross fans simply have not recovered from the days of yore.

[RichH2]

Come on Dane96! That is not how we act on this board. Show some courtesy and respect, please.

+1. Dane seems to react like a moth to a flame. We all have the freedom here to start threads and ignore those in which we have little interest. Dane should learn to exercise the latter option rather than insult another poster.

[citdog]

+1. Dane seems to react like a moth to a flame. We all have the freedom here to start threads and ignore those in which we have little interest. Dane should learn to exercise the latter option rather than insult another poster.

@#%&*@#&%&%#&*&%@#%&@#%&

[Silenoz]

I read a long (long) thread on the DIII forums that mirrored this exact topic. It was basically rationalizing Wisconsin-Whitewater and Mount Union's domination of a non-existent playing field through the argument that the other 200+ schools were "not playing to win championships."

What a load of bull. If you're not playing to win, make it a club sport. Hell, make it a campus intramural sport. If Wofford could figure out a way to make itself a contender, or Boise State, or Colorado School of Mines, or Mount Union in the first place, anyone can do it with enough ambition and drive.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Getting back to the original question, yes it is perfectly ok to enjoy FCS football at the conference level without out following the playoffs. No need to call your therapist or change your AGS avatar to a paperbag with two eyeholes.

We do have that guy here already. We did have him here at least haven't seen him lately.

[IBleedYellow]

We do have that guy here already. We did have him here at least haven't seen him lately.

Who is this? Or should I fear asking for sake of beetlejuicing him back?

[HoyaMetanoia]

I am very sure that everyone in B1G country if not the entire country is familiar with North Dakota State University due to many of its football games on ESPN netowrks, college gameday appearances, and its win in the NCAA basketball tournament last year (college softball super regional, baseball game vs Oregon State#1 last year, Wrestler losing in the national championship match last year finishing 3rd, do you want me to go on?). I'm sure that those same fans would be shocked if you told them that Georgetown had a football team, or anything other than BB.

Half of the MVFC is in the MVC for basketball, and most of the others are THE primary institutions in their state. You must not be very educated to make the statements you are making.

Are you really trying to use the college softball super regional to justify people having heard of NDSU?

B1G country, as you put it, is one of the least populated regions of the country. And NDSU really isn't in that footprint anyway, since it's in an even less populated region.

And yes, I'm sure a lot of people don't know Georgetown has a football team, because they don't pay attention to FCS football. That's my point. If you don't pay attention to FCS football, you probably have never heard of NDSU. So why would anyone care? It's like saying that because I've seen Mount Union on TV year after year, I should watch the DIII playoffs.

I'm sure people assume that there is a "primary institution" in North Dakota. But I doubt most people could name it. I can't emphasize enough how inconsequential the state of North Dakota is to the rest of the United States.

[KPSUL]

We do have that guy here already. We did have him here at least haven't seen him lately.

Good to know. That's what I was going to do if UNH had lost to Fordham. Wouldn't want to look like a copy-wildcat.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Are you really trying to use the college softball super regional to justify people having heard of NDSU?

B1G country, as you put it, is one of the least populated regions of the country. And NDSU really isn't in that footprint anyway, since it's in an even less populated region.

And yes, I'm sure a lot of people don't know Georgetown has a football team, because they don't pay attention to FCS football. That's my point. If you don't pay attention to FCS football, you probably have never heard of NDSU. So why would anyone care? It's like saying that because I've seen Mount Union on TV year after year, I should watch the DIII playoffs.

I'm sure people assume that there is a "primary institution" in North Dakota. But I doubt most people could name it. I can't emphasize enough how inconsequential the state of North Dakota is to the rest of the United States.

I'm not sure why we have to convince you of NDSU's profile in the college football world. My suggestion is that all of your football teams just go club. That way you can all pretend it's a thing and you don't have to worry about all that nasty competitiveness.

[BisonFan02]

Are you really trying to use the college softball super regional to justify people having heard of NDSU?

B1G country, as you put it, is one of the least populated regions of the country. And NDSU really isn't in that footprint anyway, since it's in an even less populated region.

And yes, I'm sure a lot of people don't know Georgetown has a football team, because they don't pay attention to FCS football. That's my point. If you don't pay attention to FCS football, you probably have never heard of NDSU. So why would anyone care? It's like saying that because I've seen Mount Union on TV year after year, I should watch the DIII playoffs.

I'm sure people assume that there is a "primary institution" in North Dakota. But I doubt most people could name it. I can't emphasize enough how inconsequential the state of North Dakota is to the rest of the United States.

Does Ewing or Iverson still play for Georgetown? That was the last time I gave two ****s about your school. Not sure how your comments fit the topic anyway.

[RichH2]

@#%&*@#&%&%#&*&%@#%&@#%&
Eloquently put :)

[Herder]

Are you really trying to use the college softball super regional to justify people having heard of NDSU?

B1G country, as you put it, is one of the least populated regions of the country. And NDSU really isn't in that footprint anyway, since it's in an even less populated region.

And yes, I'm sure a lot of people don't know Georgetown has a football team, because they don't pay attention to FCS football. That's my point. If you don't pay attention to FCS football, you probably have never heard of NDSU. So why would anyone care? It's like saying that because I've seen Mount Union on TV year after year, I should watch the DIII playoffs.

I'm sure people assume that there is a "primary institution" in North Dakota. But I doubt most people could name it. I can't emphasize enough how inconsequential the state of North Dakota is to the rest of the United States.

Umm . . . you can be a big FCS football fan and still not know that Georgetown has a team. Let's be honest. That would be like bringing up Idaho to a an FBS football fan (not really as Idaho does have 85 scholarships), they'd have no idea. I'm a huge follower of FCS football (the competitive variety), and I can't tell you a thing about Georgetown. I know your not an Ivy, but I'm not sure if you get games against the Ivy or not. I'll have to look it up. Probably a Dayton rule team, where all your money goes to BB?

[word]

I'm not that interested in the playoffs either, especially when the final game participants (at least for 3-5 years) are counted with your fingers.

Let's make a quick observation here. If 2 new teams were in the title game for the last 5 years, that would be 10 different teams. Most people have 10 fingers.

[GetEmGriz]

I think the majority of FCS fans will only follow the playoffs if their team is in the playoffs, or until their team is eliminated for one reason really... easy access to view games. It's difficult to follow the FCS playoffs when most games are only available online unless they're semifinal games on ESPN or the National Championship game. If an FCS playoff game is aired on ESPN or ESPN2, I'll definitely watch, but if I have to get my computer out and stream the game (when my team isn't playing), I most likely won't go through the effort to watch it.

I think that's the biggest difference in popularity between the FCS Playoffs and what has been the bowl system and the now new FBS Playoffs... Every major bowl game/FBS playoffs is aired on basic cable via ESPN, ABC, etc. It makes it easy for the casual fan to tune in whereas at the FCS level the die-hard fans have to stream most playoff games.

[HoyaMetanoia]

Umm . . . you can be a big FCS football fan and still not know that Georgetown has a team. Let's be honest. That would be like bringing up Idaho to a an FBS football fan (not really as Idaho does have 85 scholarships), they'd have no idea. I'm a huge follower of FCS football (the competitive variety), and I can't tell you a thing about Georgetown. I know your not an Ivy, but I'm not sure if you get games against the Ivy or not. I'll have to look it up. Probably a Dayton rule team, where all your money goes to BB?

I'm not trying to argue the legitimacy of Georgetown football here, so this is a non-sequitor.

Again: If you don't pay attention to FCS football, you probably have never heard of NDSU. So why would anyone care? It's like saying that because I've seen Mount Union on TV year after year, I should watch the DIII playoffs.

I'm sure people assume that there is a "primary institution" in North Dakota. But I doubt most people could name it. I can't emphasize enough how inconsequential the state of North Dakota is to the rest of the United States.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

I'm not trying to argue the legitimacy of Georgetown football here, so this is a non-sequitor.

Again: If you don't pay attention to FCS football, you probably have never heard of NDSU. So why would anyone care? It's like saying that because I've seen Mount Union on TV year after year, I should watch the DIII playoffs.

I'm sure people assume that there is a "primary institution" in North Dakota. But I doubt most people could name it. I can't emphasize enough how inconsequential the state of North Dakota is to the rest of the United States.

Google Search "North Dakota" 154,000,000 results

Google Search "Georgetown University" 12,500,000 results.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I'm not trying to argue the legitimacy of Georgetown football here, so this is a non-sequitor.

Again: If you don't pay attention to FCS football, you probably have never heard of NDSU. So why would anyone care? It's like saying that because I've seen Mount Union on TV year after year, I should watch the DIII playoffs.

I'm sure people assume that there is a "primary institution" in North Dakota. But I doubt most people could name it. I can't emphasize enough how inconsequential the state of North Dakota is to the rest of the United States.

That many people can't name the governor of North Dakota isn't the issue, and that's not the purpose of the NDSU football program. If you're a high school football senior, with ambitions for a football scholarship, I bet you have heard of NDSU. Converting grannies isn't the goal. Getting high school football programs to see NDSU as a viable option is the goal.

[IBleedYellow]

I'm not trying to argue the legitimacy of Georgetown football here, so this is a non-sequitor.

Again: If you don't pay attention to FCS football, you probably have never heard of NDSU. So why would anyone care? It's like saying that because I've seen Mount Union on TV year after year, I should watch the DIII playoffs.

I'm sure people assume that there is a "primary institution" in North Dakota. But I doubt most people could name it. I can't emphasize enough how inconsequential the state of North Dakota is to the rest of the United States.
There are plenty of people that don't pay attention to FCS football that know about NDSU. Just go over to the college football subreddit on Reddit and you'll see just yesterday there was a front page post about NDSU. Many people know more about NDSU than they do the State of North Dakota, and it's living proof on other places that normally talk FBS football. Check out the csnbbs boards as well. I have people over on Reddit messaging me from Oregon and Ohio State asking about Frisco and where they can have an meet up before the FCS title game.


Keep dreaming that NDSU isn't known, because we are, and it's almost 100% because of football.

Sent from a TI-83+ Calculator

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Google Search "North Dakota" 154,000,000 results

Google Search "Georgetown University" 12,500,000 results.

You forgot to add -fracking

[HoyaMetanoia]

That many people can't name the governor of North Dakota isn't the issue, and that's not the purpose of the NDSU football program. If you're a high school football senior, with ambitions for a football scholarship, I bet you have heard of NDSU. Converting grannies isn't the goal. Getting high school football programs to see NDSU as a viable option is the goal.

Outside of the midwest? Probably not.

Again, if the only people who know about your school are college football diehards and high school seniors from the Midwest, that's part of the problem of the FCS playoffs not having a broad appeal. A lot of people don't care because the participants aren't relevant except for the two days a year that they get on ESPN.

It's like if Seton Hall kept winning the new Big East tournament. A lot of people know nothing about Seton Hall, and not much more about the other teams in the Big East. Yeah, it's supposed to be an event that college basketball fans have some casual interest in, but if you barely have heard of the champion and they're never consequential in anything but this one mediocre event, then who cares?

[Bisonator]

I can't emphasize enough how inconsequential the state of North Dakota is to the rest of the United States.

Thanks. That's how we like it! Keep those "fruits and nuts" out east! :D

[NoDak 4 Ever]

You forgot to add -fracking

why -anything? The thesis of the argument is North Dakota is inconsequential to anyone in the United States. It matters not why.

[ST_Lawson]

I guess I'm one of the odd ones. If there's an FCS playoff game on ESPN/ESPN2/ESPN3, then I'm watching it. If one (or some) of the games have MVFC teams, then I'll watch them, but if not, then I'm more than happy to watch whoever I can watch, to the point of having 3 games going on my computer and 1 through my roku on my TV all at the same time (all FCS playoff games)...and this is pretty much every year (since ESPN started doing FCS playoff games on ESPN3/online).

And just for reference, my team has only been in the playoffs once in the last 10 years, so it's not like I'm paying a lot of attention to my team in the playoffs. If I'm lucky, then I'm watching a team that I saw play at Western earlier in the season, and if I'm really lucky, I'm watching a championship game with two teams we played (and came close to beating) at home in the regular season ;)

[MR. CHICKEN]

Thanks. That's how we like it! Keep those "fruits and nuts" out east! :D

20435......FRUITS ON LEFT COAST...NUTS TA RIGHT..........BAWK!

......ST_LAWSON...SEZ IT BEST....xnodx....AWK!

[walliver]

I suspect most fans that don't have a dog in the fight lose interest in the FCS playoffs fairly quickly.

Most FCS fans, not necessarily the die-hards on AGS however, generally only follow conference-mates and other regional teams. Once those teams are out, these FCS fans turn their interest to the College Football Playoff and the NFL playoffs. The FCS playoffs this year, like most years, is devoid of drama. There is no real contender (like TCU) left out of the field. There is no Cinderella team. None of the participants has a large national following.

I suspect most of those with no interest in the playoffs have never participated in the playoffs. Playoffs are exciting to those involved. By December, most teams are well settled in to their schemes and don't really need to practice much during exams. Obviously, the excitement drops off rapidly once you are eliminated.

[caribbeanhen]

I didn't care about watching the FCS playoffs until NDSU was in them and I have no idea how interested I'll be if NDSU isn't in them again.

Once upon a time I thought it was an achievement to finish in the Top 10 in the Clenz pick em game, but now I realize that once the home team has been eliminated from the playoffs there are only about 10 guys in the entire USA that are paying attention.....

[Pard4Life]

LOL! This is hysterical that Sader87 started this thread!

To be truthful, I don't care that much overall about the FCS playoffs as much as I used to. I'll follow the PL team but not go out of my way to watch. I'll watch the semis if on and I'm around. And I often forget about the title game.

FCS playoffs to me is like MLB... if my team isn't in it, I won't watch but I'll follow.

I'll watch whoever is playing in FBS though. Same with NHL.

[MR. CHICKEN]

20439......AH WATCH....ALL DUH WAY THRU.......WANNAH SEE...WHAT PLAY-OFF TEAMS HAVE....AN' WHAT....DUH BLUEHENS....NEED TA GET DANCIN'...WHIFF 'EM.....AWK!

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Personally I tuned in to see Nova and UNH, who I watched play PL teams, to see how far they would get in the field. Full disclosure: I actually watched part of the Bahamas Bowl, thus I might not be a "regular college football fan".

[hebmskebm]

Some schools just seem to be content with putting on a few home games in September and October for their students and alumni. Playing into the New Year is not a core goal of having a program. I'm not a fan of this mindset, but am not surprised by it at this cost-containment level.

You can probably count on two hands the number of FCS schools that have fanbases that are thinking "win the FCS championship" as a goal in mind at the start of the season. Most schools at this level have "fanbases" that for the most part barely know the FCS playoffs exist (not counting the football diehards that post places like here, who let's face it are a small minority). They'll cheer for their team, hope they win, but really have zero interest in the program other than for a few hours on Saturday afternoon, you know, when the weather's permitting.

[1984]

Are you really trying to use the college softball super regional to justify people having heard of NDSU?

B1G country, as you put it, is one of the least populated regions of the country. And NDSU really isn't in that footprint anyway, since it's in an even less populated region.

And yes, I'm sure a lot of people don't know Georgetown has a football team, because they don't pay attention to FCS football. That's my point. If you don't pay attention to FCS football, you probably have never heard of NDSU. So why would anyone care? It's like saying that because I've seen Mount Union on TV year after year, I should watch the DIII playoffs.

I'm sure people assume that there is a "primary institution" in North Dakota. But I doubt most people could name it. I can't emphasize enough how inconsequential the state of North Dakota is to the rest of the United States.

In perception I would agree. In reality North Dakota is very consequential to the rest of the country. The state produces a very significant amount of food. It has for many years been a big part of national defense, it does not matter if not everyone knows about. It is also a huge energy exporter and has been for decades. Electricity is part of that export and is generated by wind, hydro and coal plants. There was oil before the Bakken but that did increase production very significantly. But then again the American public is pretty uninformed and dont know the history or who is in the current government.

[Ivytalk]

Some schools just seem to be content with putting on a few home games in September and October for their students and alumni. Playing into the New Year is not a core goal of having a program. I'm not a fan of this mindset, but am not surprised by it at this cost-containment level.

You can probably count on two hands the number of FCS schools that have fanbases that are thinking "win the FCS championship" as a goal in mind at the start of the season. Most schools at this level have "fanbases" that for the most part barely know the FCS playoffs exist (not counting the football diehards that post places like here, who let's face it are a small minority). They'll cheer for their team, hope they win, but really have zero interest in the program other than for a few hours on Saturday afternoon, you know, when the weather's permitting.

Sums it up about right.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

I'm not a FCS grad but watched basically every game on ESPN3. I remember watching Marshall, YSU and Montana in the title game pre-Patriot League playoff era. As a kid I knew Delaware was the beast in east and Holy Cross was always ranked high but couldn't win the title.

I've been to Lehigh's playoff games against @ UMass '98, @ Hofstra '99, @ Delaware '00, Hofstra '01, JMU '04, @ Delaware '10 and @ Towson '11. If i can swing it I'll be at the next one....

One reason for my Lehigh fandom and ND love is my experience as a student at Temple. The program was booted from the BE and nearly shut down. We were the laughing stock of the country. There was a tremendous disconnect with the student body at the time. If that happened while you were a student at your respective school there would be a different perspective....

[Sader87]

Some schools just seem to be content with putting on a few home games in September and October for their students and alumni. Playing into the New Year is not a core goal of having a program. I'm not a fan of this mindset, but am not surprised by it at this cost-containment level.

You can probably count on two hands the number of FCS schools that have fanbases that are thinking "win the FCS championship" as a goal in mind at the start of the season. Most schools at this level have "fanbases" that for the most part barely know the FCS playoffs exist (not counting the football diehards that post places like here, who let's face it are a small minority). They'll cheer for their team, hope they win, but really have zero interest in the program other than for a few hours on Saturday afternoon, you know, when the weather's permitting.

Pretty much this....with the caveat that I still want HC to have a very good team on the field.

I'd like to see HC play teams like Montana, Cal-Poly etc every so often too...just not in Decembah or January.

[kalm]

Pretty much this....with the caveat that I still want HC to have a very good team on the field.

I'd like to see HC play teams like Montana, Cal-Poly etc every so often too...just not in Decembah or January.

So you don't like playoffs at all. Why didn't you just say that?

[Catsfan90]

So you don't like playoffs at all. Why didn't you just say that?

I have seen him be vocal about it on other threads.

[Catsfan90]

In perception I would agree. In reality North Dakota is very consequential to the rest of the country. The state produces a very significant amount of food. It has for many years been a big part of national defense, it does not matter if not everyone knows about. It is also a huge energy exporter and has been for decades. Electricity is part of that export and is generated by wind, hydro and coal plants. There was oil before the Bakken but that did increase production very significantly. But then again the American public is pretty uninformed and dont know the history or who is in the current government.

Preach it. I cant tell you how many times down south I would tell people I was from New Hampshire, and they would look at me like I was from Alaska. A good portion of the population is extremely uneducated on geography, and don't realize that everyday items they use to sustain life come from these different areas they either look down upon or make fun of.

As for the original question, I feel as though it is a small number fans that do not care about the playoffs. As a kid growing up in New Hampshire the Patriots were a hot ticket item, and peoples arguments for the NFL against CFB was that the NFL crowned an undisputed champ via a playoff system, and the CFB championship game was anything but fair. For years the NCAA has been struggling to figure out how to crown an FBS champ until this year where IMO they have come the closet to getting it right they have ever been. On the flip side of that though, the FCS does and ahs had a real playoff to crown an undisputed champ for many years now. It has the ingredients to show us that not only is a team great, they beat out many other great teams to win their crown. What is the point of sports if there is no clear winner? I'm sorry, IMO if a team doesn't want to participate in the playoffs than they have no business fielding a team in the "FOOTBALL CHAMPIONSHIP SUBDIVISION"

[Lehigh'98]

I'm not a FCS grad but watched basically every game on ESPN3. I remember watching Marshall, YSU and Montana in the title game pre-Patriot League playoff era. As a kid I knew Delaware was the beast in east and Holy Cross was always ranked high but couldn't win the title.

I've been to Lehigh's playoff games against @ UMass '98, @ Hofstra '99, @ Delaware '00, Hofstra '01, JMU '04, @ Delaware '10 and @ Towson '11. If i can swing it I'll be at the next one....

One reason for my Lehigh fandom and ND love is my experience as a student at Temple. The program was booted from the BE and nearly shut down. We were the laughing stock of the country. There was a tremendous disconnect with the student body at the time. If that happened while you were a student at your respective school there would be a different perspective....

I am friends with many ex players who no zero about Lehigh's season except whether or not they beat Lafayette. I have a different mindset, but I'm definitely not the norm. I will say, if we make the playoffs, guys get much more excited about it. At least on social media.

[uni88]

too that end, you will eventually start to lose recruits no matter how good your school is. These kids want to play championship football on television.
I don't think that's completely true. If I was offered a football scholarship to NDSU or an academic scholarship to Harvard, I would take the academic and be very happy playing football for the Crimson while getting an Ivy education and connections. Football is a means to an end for many and the quality of the school can be more important than the quality of play for them.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

I don't think that's completely true. If I was offered a football scholarship to NDSU or an academic scholarship to Harvard, I would take the academic and be very happy playing football for the Crimson while getting an Ivy education and connections. Football is a means to an end for many and the quality of the school can be more important than the quality of play for them.

You have taken the most absurd example. Harvard gets academics who happen to play football. Those are quite rare.

[uni88]

In perception I would agree. In reality North Dakota is very consequential to the rest of the country. The state produces a very significant amount of food. It has for many years been a big part of national defense, it does not matter if not everyone knows about. It is also a huge energy exporter and has been for decades. Electricity is part of that export and is generated by wind, hydro and coal plants. There was oil before the Bakken but that did increase production very significantly. But then again the American public is pretty uninformed and dont know the history or who is in the current government.
Very well said. North Dakota is very important to the nation but most people don't understand that.

Comparing hits for Google searches for North Dakota compared to Georgetown University is no relevant. North Dakota is a state while Georgetown is simply a school. You would need to compare North Dakota State University to Georgetown University.

Stating that B1G country is one of the least populated regions is erroneous. B1G country is the old rust belt with a number of major cities and while not as populous as a few regions (Mid-Atlantic, California) it is more populous than a number of other regions.

NDSU is known by college football die-hards but not really the general population. I've been involved in youth football in the Chicago area for 10 years and I've run into one person in that time that knows about NDSU and that was because he worked in Wisconsin for a guy named Jensen. And I don't mean that has a put down for NDSU, I wear UNI stuff all the time and our name recognition is about the same and mostly tied to the basketball win over Kansas. I have a friend who is very interested in FBS football and I had to tell him that his alma matter, Illinois State, was playing for a national championship. FCS football just doesn't have a lot of name recognition.

[uni88]

You have taken the most absurd example. Harvard gets academics who happen to play football. Those are quite rare.
It's a glaring not an absurd example. The same could be true if I was a Minnesota kid with an offer from NDSU or D3 Carlton College. There are a lot of good schools (Ivy's, Patriot, D3s) where football might help open the door. Yes I would want to play for championships but the big picture is what will the education do for my long-term future. There are kids that will choose championships and there are kids that will choose education. There are options for all of them.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Very well said. North Dakota is very important to the nation but most people don't understand that.

Comparing hits for Google searches for North Dakota compared to Georgetown University is no relevant. North Dakota is a state while Georgetown is simply a school. You would need to compare North Dakota State University to Georgetown University.

Stating that B1G country is one of the least populated regions is erroneous. B1G country is the old rust belt with a number of major cities and while not as populous as a few regions (Mid-Atlantic, California) it is more populous than a number of other regions.

NDSU is known by college football die-hards but not really the general population. I've been involved in youth football in the Chicago area for 10 years and I've run into one person in that time that knows about NDSU and that was because he worked in Wisconsin for a guy named Jensen. And I don't mean that has a put down for NDSU, I wear UNI stuff all the time and our name recognition is about the same and mostly tied to the basketball win over Kansas. I have a friend who is very interested in FBS football and I had to tell him that his alma matter, Illinois State, was playing for a national championship. FCS football just doesn't have a lot of name recognition.

The argument was that "I can't tell you how inconsequential North Dakota is to the rest of the United States" No qualifier, only North Dakota.

There was a tad bit of backpedaling but that wasn't the original argument.

[Missingnumber7]

I guess I'm just a little different than most. I have followed D-1AA before NDSU was a part of it, and even the playoffs. After NDSU moved up, I made it a point to watch. But then I also pay for the expanded regional sports package so that I can watch other FCS football games. I would much rather watch an FCS game than a whole FBS game. Part of it is that I have a vested intrest in the level, I think the other part is I like to be a knowledgable fan.

I am confused by schools who say they dont' care about the playoffs, and wonder how quickly that would change if they were to win a game or two in the playoffs.

I remember a group of fans from a school that said they were fine not being eligible for post season play for a couple years because that was the cost of moving up...then came a win over a MAC school and close loss to the gophers and some high rankings...and they weren't fine with it anymore. Then came a second season with a win over the gophers and a MAC school...and a lone single loss to the rival...and once again they weren't fine with it.

My point is if you could hack it at the level it would mean something...I understand the people on here saying they don't care about they playoffs, they just haven't tasted the kool-aid yet.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

To me the playoffs are a key part of the tapestry of the FCS season. The nice thing about FCS is that it's not a choice between scheduling FBS teams, winning conferences, or playing in the playoffs. They are all intertwined goals.

For 7/8ths of the Ivy League (and in most years, 8/8ths) you only have one goal in football, winning the conference. To me that doesn't lend itself to a rich season. How much richer is Harvard's basketball season because they've played Arizona State and will be playing BC? How much richer is Harvard's hoops season because if they win, they make it into the NCAAs?

If you told me a fantastic Lehigh football season would have to end with a win over Lafayette, I would want to see how that team competed against the best the subdivision had to offer. I wouldn't have traded that 1998 run to the I-AA championship which ended at the 8 yard line vs. UMass for an abbreviated season that ended in a win. Lehigh went undefeated through the regular season and beat Richmond on the road on a last-second FG. It was glorious - only topped by Lehigh's 40-38 win over Towson with the safety.

[PAllen]

Very well said. North Dakota is very important to the nation but most people don't understand that.

Comparing hits for Google searches for North Dakota compared to Georgetown University is no relevant. North Dakota is a state while Georgetown is simply a school. You would need to compare North Dakota State University to Georgetown University.

Stating that B1G country is one of the least populated regions is erroneous. B1G country is the old rust belt with a number of major cities and while not as populous as a few regions (Mid-Atlantic, California) it is more populous than a number of other regions.

NDSU is known by college football die-hards but not really the general population. I've been involved in youth football in the Chicago area for 10 years and I've run into one person in that time that knows about NDSU and that was because he worked in Wisconsin for a guy named Jensen. And I don't mean that has a put down for NDSU, I wear UNI stuff all the time and our name recognition is about the same and mostly tied to the basketball win over Kansas. I have a friend who is very interested in FBS football and I had to tell him that his alma matter, Illinois State, was playing for a national championship. FCS football just doesn't have a lot of name recognition.

Careful now, B1G country now includes DC and NYC. Just look at their video intro sometime (DC and NYC are the most prominent part of the piece). Your point however is well taken that traditional BIG 10 country includes tiny spots like Chicago, Minneapolis, Detroit, Cleveland and Cincinnati.

[PAllen]

To me the playoffs are a key part of the tapestry of the FCS season. The nice thing about FCS is that it's not a choice between scheduling FBS teams, winning conferences, or playing in the playoffs. They are all intertwined goals.

For 7/8ths of the Ivy League (and in most years, 8/8ths) you only have one goal in football, winning the conference. To me that doesn't lend itself to a rich season. How much richer is Harvard's basketball season because they've played Arizona State and will be playing BC? How much richer is Harvard's hoops season because if they win, they make it into the NCAAs?

If you told me a fantastic Lehigh football season would have to end with a win over Lafayette, I would want to see how that team competed against the best the subdivision had to offer. I wouldn't have traded that 1998 run to the I-AA championship which ended at the 8 yard line vs. UMass for an abbreviated season that ended in a win. Lehigh went undefeated through the regular season and beat Richmond on the road on a last-second FG. It was glorious - only topped by Lehigh's 40-38 win over Towson with the safety.

Nah, the Richmond win was much better. To your point though, I agree that playing in the playoffs is better than not, however, I'd bet that over half of the Lehigh community didn't even know we were in those games. It is the same at the vast majority of the schools in this subdivision. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised at some, over half of the community didn't even know that they had a football team.

[Wallace]

AGS was created to be a national board, not really an overflow of individual team boards. So the original question is valid but very silly. You should REALLY enjoy the tournament that determines the national champion.

[kalm]

Nah, the Richmond win was much better. To your point though, I agree that playing in the playoffs is better than not, however, I'd bet that over half of the Lehigh community didn't even know we were in those games. It is the same at the vast majority of the schools in this subdivision. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised at some, over half of the community didn't even know that they had a football team.

That maybe true, but isn't all relative? WSU has twice the enrollment as EWU and the UW has 3-4 times the enrollment. And what about culture? If you grow up in Montana or North Dakota, your media market is dominated by those athletics. But that's not true for much of the sub-division.

You're painting with brush strokes here.

[RichH2]

Nah, the Richmond win was much better. To your point though, I agree that playing in the playoffs is better than not, however, I'd bet that over half of the Lehigh community didn't even know we were in those games. It is the same at the vast majority of the schools in this subdivision. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised at some, over half of the community didn't even know that they had a football team.
Your estimate may be correct as to how many cared but most alumni knew about playoffs. Almost impossible not to with the delugs of communi ation we all get from LU :)

[PAllen]

Your estimate may be correct as to how many cared but most alumni knew about playoffs. Almost impossible not to with the delugs of communiation we all get from LU :)

Well I know my brother and his wife (both class of '92) don't know about them as they always ask how the football team did this year as a polite conversation starter at Thanksgiving or Christmas. Oddly enough, my father who was a PSU grad knew more about the FCS playoffs when he was alive than most fans of FCS school, but that was a father-son bonding thing. Now a men's basketball game in the NCAA tournament, yeah, that's impossible to miss. They almost phone bank those.

Edit: LOL, this just showed up in my email, no lie:

"Please come out and support the Lehigh Men's Basketball team as they play Navy on Wednesday, February 18th" :D

[DFW HOYA]

And yes, I'm sure a lot of people don't know Georgetown has a football team, because they don't pay attention to FCS football. That's my point. If you don't pay attention to FCS football, you probably have never heard of NDSU. So why would anyone care?

Why don't people know Georgetown has football? Answer: How would they?

Men's basketball has every game broadcast on TV. Football has no local TV broadcasts, no radio, and one article per year in the Washington Post. How do you build interest in that?

How many kids grow up following Georgetown football? Three percent of the student body is local. And absent a presence on TV, it's out of sight, out of mind.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Why don't people know Georgetown has football? Answer: How would they?

Men's basketball has every game broadcast on TV. Football has no local TV broadcasts, no radio, and one article per year in the Washington Post. How do you build interest in that?

How many kids grow up following Georgetown football? Three percent of the student body is local. And absent a presence on TV, it's out of sight, out of mind.

Contrast that to NDSU and Montana and Montana State, who have over-the-air broadcasts throughout the state of all the home games. It makes a very big difference, even if they are sparsely populated states.

[Bisonator]

To me the playoffs are a key part of the tapestry of the FCS season. The nice thing about FCS is that it's not a choice between scheduling FBS teams, winning conferences, or playing in the playoffs. They are all intertwined goals.

This is spot on. It's like 3 different seasons to me. The OOC which often includes an FBS and different FCS teams we don't normally see, then the conference schedule with some great rivalry games followed by the pinnacle of the playoffs against the best of the sub-division! What's not to like about it?

[bkrownd]

What is the point of sports if there is no clear winner?

Enjoying the game, enjoying the atmosphere, enjoying the endless arguments and reflections on past glories and failures.

[bkrownd]

For 7/8ths of the Ivy League (and in most years, 8/8ths) you only have one goal in football, winning the conference. To me that doesn't lend itself to a rich season. How much richer is Harvard's basketball season because they've played Arizona State and will be playing BC? How much richer is Harvard's hoops season because if they win, they make it into the NCAAs?

The conference championship is by far the most important aspect of a football season for me. It's a season-long competition among the same teams with a long tradition of playing each other, and at least until recently in football it was a proper round-robin competition.

[Go...gate]

20439......AH WATCH....ALL DUH WAY THRU.......WANNAH SEE...WHAT PLAY-OFF TEAMS HAVE....AN' WHAT....DUH BLUEHENS....NEED TA GET DANCIN'...WHIFF 'EM.....AWK!

I'm with Mr. Chicken. I want to broaden my knowledge of the Division.

- - - Updated - - -


Enjoying the game, enjoying the atmosphere, enjoying the endless arguments and reflections on past glories and failures.

Amen!

[Sader87]

I think bkrownd and I are on the same level....again, I'm not anti-playoff altogether, but it's not for everyone.

A good regular season....some great games and tail-gates/road-trips, home and away, from Septembah through the end of Novembah....and that's enough (for Holy Cross anyway).

Football really doesn't lend itself to a playoff format imo...it's forced and needs way too much time to play itself out.

[AmsterBison]

Has Holy Cross played any team south or west of Philly's outer suburbs since joining in the FCS? (not counting playoffs, of course.)

Er, I suppose that should be south of DC (to exclude Georgetown) / west of Philly's western suburbs.

By my count, I think that the the answer is "Yes, Holy Cross played at least three schools outside our immediate region in the last 30+ years."

[DFW HOYA]

By my count, I think that the the answer is "Yes, Holy Cross played at least three schools outside our immediate region in the last 30+ years."

Correct. HC played a home and home with William & Mary in the late 1980's, a road game at St. Mary's in '99, and a one-off with FIU in 2003.

Since 1993, Georgetown has played 13 schools outside the NE corridor: Duquesne, St. Francis, Robert Morris, Austin Peay, San Diego, FIU, VMI, Davidson (often), Charleston Southern, Richmond, Old Dominion, Butler, and Dayton.

Within its own "region", just two: Howard and Towson.

[Missingnumber7]

Why don't people know Georgetown has football? Answer: How would they?



Lots of excuses, NDSU had lean times fan wise too, but winning games and fulling funding the program brings in all the interest needed. Media coverage just doesn't appear...ask the school down river from NDSU...of course they are stuck in their conference TV deal, but its about making the best you can even when there aren't any options available. But it starts with having a fully funded program and making it a priority. Georgetown makes a ton more money off of hoop it makes more sense that they are where they are. But thats where this argument is laughable. Schools that don't fully fund football and it really isn't a priority to them poo poo FCS playoffs and say that the FCS national championship is no big deal. Those that fully fund consider it an arms race and it means something to them.

[344Johnson]

Lots of excuses, NDSU had lean times fan wise too, but winning games and fulling funding the program brings in all the interest needed. Media coverage just doesn't appear...ask the school down river from NDSU...of course they are stuck in their conference TV deal, but its about making the best you can even when there aren't any options available. But it starts with having a fully funded program and making it a priority. Georgetown makes a ton more money off of hoop it makes more sense that they are where they are. But thats where this argument is laughable. Schools that don't fully fund football and it really isn't a priority to them poo poo FCS playoffs and say that the FCS national championship is no big deal. Those that fully fund consider it an arms race and it means something to them.

Arms race in FCS? Hard to call it an arms race when teams are leaving for the FBS.

[Lehigh'98]

I think bkrownd and I are on the same level....again, I'm not anti-playoff altogether, but it's not for everyone.

A good regular season....some great games and tail-gates/road-trips, home and away, from Septembah through the end of Novembah....and that's enough (for Holy Cross anyway).

Football really doesn't lend itself to a playoff format imo...it's forced and needs way too much time to play itself out.

So Sader, you are pro playoffs for HC? I just can't tell with you. You should post a few more thoughts just so we are clear!

[caribbeanhen]

Arms race in FCS? Hard to call it an arms race when teams are leaving for the FBS.

more like Cuba and Haiti, and North Dak State is Fidel

[Sader87]

Lots of excuses, NDSU had lean times fan wise too, but winning games and fulling funding the program brings in all the interest needed. Media coverage just doesn't appear...ask the school down river from NDSU...of course they are stuck in their conference TV deal, but its about making the best you can even when there aren't any options available. But it starts with having a fully funded program and making it a priority. Georgetown makes a ton more money off of hoop it makes more sense that they are where they are. But thats where this argument is laughable. Schools that don't fully fund football and it really isn't a priority to them poo poo FCS playoffs and say that the FCS national championship is no big deal. Those that fully fund consider it an arms race and it means something to them.

The thing is, winning an FCS national title really doesn't excite the HC alumni body or the residents of Central Massachusetts that much. I'm not saying beating Harvard, Yale, Colgate or UNH in the regular season means more or is more important to them....but it's more tangible.

It is what it is....Holy Cross is sort of anomalous to most FCS programs. Its football history is tied into playing schools in the Northeast....some Ivies (Harvard, Dartmouth, Yale), some FBS (BC, Army, Syracuse, UConn, UMass), some Patriot (Colgate....going back, Fordham, GTown)....a lot of these rivalries tie to almost 80, 90 years ago....playing FCS schools in the playoffs, that have only existed as FCS programs within the last 10, 20 years, just isn't as interesting to many HC fans.

[MR. CHICKEN]

The thing is, winning an FCS national title really doesn't excite the HC alumni body or the residents of Central Massachusetts that much. I'm not saying beating Harvard, Yale, Colgate or UNH in the regular season means more or is more important to them....but it's more tangible.

It is what it is....Holy Cross is sort of anomalous to most FCS programs. Its football history is tied into playing schools in the Northeast....some Ivies (Harvard, Dartmouth, Yale), some FBS (BC, Army, Syracuse, UConn, UMass), some Patriot (Colgate....going back, Fordham, GTown)....a lot of these rivalries tie to almost 80, 90 years ago....playing FCS schools in the playoffs, that have only existed as FCS programs within the last 10, 20 years, just isn't as interesting to many HC fans.


20480.......SO YER...NATIONAL SPOKESMAN....FO' ALL THIN'S...PURPLE........xconfusedx......AWK!

[Ivytalk]

Sometimes I think 90% of the fans who get revved up about the FCS playoffs post right here on this board. I'll probably get Charlie Hebdoed for saying that, but...

[OL FU]

20480.......SO YER...NATIONAL SPOKESMAN....FO' ALL THIN'S...PURPLE........xconfusedx......AWK!


uh, not even close:( At least not every shade of purple:D

[OL FU]

Sometimes I think 90% of the fans who get revved up about the FCS playoffs post right here on this board. I'll probably get Charlie Hebdoed for saying that, but...

I know where you livexmadx

Well not really but I guess if I ever made it up that way, you would tell mexdrunkyx

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

The thing is, winning an FCS national title really doesn't excite the HC alumni body or the residents of Central Massachusetts that much. I'm not saying beating Harvard, Yale, Colgate or UNH in the regular season means more or is more important to them....but it's more tangible.

It is what it is....Holy Cross is sort of anomalous to most FCS programs. Its football history is tied into playing schools in the Northeast....some Ivies (Harvard, Dartmouth, Yale), some FBS (BC, Army, Syracuse, UConn, UMass), some Patriot (Colgate....going back, Fordham, GTown)....a lot of these rivalries tie to almost 80, 90 years ago....playing FCS schools in the playoffs, that have only existed as FCS programs within the last 10, 20 years, just isn't as interesting to many HC fans.

Maybe it's time for the HC fandom to be educated about who they are and where they stand in 2015! News flash, doesn't make a difference how far back those rivalries go, unless there are significant changes in the landscape, HC isn't getting home and homes with BC, Army, Syracuse, UConn or UMass. And in most years beating one of those schools will be a significant upset. So why hold on to the past??? Hey, I'm an old fart so I've got fond memories of the decades with season ending battles with UMass! And because I grew up in CT the games with UConn always meant more to me than the ones vs. Maine and Rhody. They've moved on and I've accepted Stony Brook and Albany as worthy opponents. There was no sense living in the past or start thinking that UNH Football was no longer meaningful because we weren't playing UMass and UConn.

Why not sell the Crusader faithful on the six Patriot games, embrace your league and the schools you're associated with. Have an FBS game but make sure your fans know you'll be a solid underdog. Then with the remaining four games you could have a regional CAA (UNH, Maine, Albany, URI), one game from Villanova, W&M, Richmond, Elon, Furman, Wofford, Citadel, VMI, etc. then two Ivy games from Harvard, Dartmouth, Yale and Brown. That's the 2015 FCS reality and it doesn't compromise any HC values.

After you do that then we'll work on the beauty of the FCS Playoffs!! ;) :D

[Lehigh Football Nation]

HC played Villanova in the FCS playoffs in 09. It was a matchup that only happened b/c of the playoffs. If Sader had his dream come true he would have been playing in the Big East, where Villanova would be a conference rival in hoops. Yet somehow the playoffs "aren't interesting". xrolleyesx