How does FCS and FBS compare?

[clenz]

I've been doing this on the NDSU to the B12 thread but it deserves it's own thread for discussion.

There's yearly chatter on how the top FCS programs would compete with the G5 and some could/should be in the P5.

Well, I wanted to take a look to see how far away us FCS schools really are from our FBS counterparts.

This is not a thing to draw definitive conclusions on. There are dozens more factors than I put into this. It is simply football stadium and budgets. Take from it what you want.

*Click the link to be taken to a slide show for each conference*

I will be adding all of the G5 and FCS conferences are time goes. If a team uses more than one venue (UMASS, SWAC schools, a couple others) I will be using your "on campus" stadium.

G5 Conferences
American (https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1lgUXLFcT39DudGQcYaIxVm9OvY4NZ1cDNrYfsQoVIEU/edit?usp=sharing)
Conference USA (https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1MVLSrPGDeG-2yr28T5Om2r-B4xx-dIdUipQyjl_ibkA/edit?usp=sharing)
Mid-American (https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1FRu4OqaH9hx_6-83AySwk29gJAhz_r_t2_TXP8_exVo/edit?usp=sharing)
Moutntain West (https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1Q9eakIvsluwL0sFoyw1T4_zSR2q6YCa57EGPaaq3AoY/edit?usp=sharing)
Sun Belt (https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1cCE3bmo9LPnWBr--WhEvSeUJwvnZY128RtDOYef7snI/edit#slide=id.g55bd79948_01)

FCS Conferences
Big Sky - in progress
Big South - on deck
Colonial - COMING SOON
Ivy - COMING SOON
MEAC - COMING SOON
MVFC - COMING SOON
Northeast - COMING SOON
Ohio Valley - COMING SOON
Patriot - COMING SOON
Pioneer - COMING SOON
Southern - COMING SOON
Southland - COMING SOON
SWAC - COMING SOON

Conference Comparison (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1zm1LtmMlZLJOgPaU5UhSyTwlG20-GGd5M2RCkpWY5e8/edit?usp=sharing) - in progress but open

[melloware13]

I like the money drop picture for Ga St.

[clenz]

I like the money drop picture for Ga St.
I really thought about not using it but there is no better picture to describe that program than that picture

- - - Updated - - -

Mountain West Conference added

[Sycamore62]

Is there or can you put in what some fcs conferences have?

[clenz]

I will start them tonight/tomorrow.

I have the G5 done on this site and am working on putting them into the sheets documents.

I will be doing the FCS in alphabetical order...maybe two a day, but 1 seems likely

[smilo]

This is wonderful! If there is any way that you just add a table at the end comparing the 4 numbers across the schools within a conference so you can see how schools compare, it'd be even better. Still a great tool.

[clenz]

I really want people to have a feel for what the G5 is offering before I drop the FCS hammer...so to speak.

- - - Updated - - -


This is wonderful! If there is any way that you just add a table at the end comparing the 4 numbers across the schools within a conference so you can see how schools compare, it'd be even better. Still a great tool.
I will do that.

Once I have final numbers I will put them into their own sheet and post them

Or do you want a sheet at the end that just repeats the numbers from the previous slides?

I can probably make that happen too

[smilo]

Either or. Initially I was asking for a slide at the end to repeat it, but if you have a spreadsheet, then you can compare across conferences and FBS vs. FCS so that'd probably work just as well.

[clenz]

Either or. Initially I was asking for a slide at the end to repeat it, but if you have a spreadsheet, then you can compare across conferences and FBS vs. FCS so that'd probably work just as well.
I'll put the table at the end of each slide show on it's own slide and then repeat it comparing the averages from FCS and FBS all on one table or slide

[Bisonator]

After looking at the SBC really closely for the first time I think we should start rethinking the G5 moniker and maybe change it to G4.5! xlolx

[clenz]

After looking at the SBC really closely for the first time I think we should start rethinking the G5 moniker and maybe change it to G4.5! xlolx
CUSA is better...but not by much.


The MAC, AAC, and MWC blow them completley out of the water. If the MAC added, on average, roughly 7 million to their budgets they'd be nearly identical to the AAC.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The Sun Belt should really take "Eventually, you might become a member of the Big East!" off their marketing materials.

[clenz]

Link for the American is up.

[clenz]

Either or. Initially I was asking for a slide at the end to repeat it, but if you have a spreadsheet, then you can compare across conferences and FBS vs. FCS so that'd probably work just as well.
I have one added for the AAC.

Let me know if that's what you were looking for.

I'll do one that compares all FBS conference, one for all FCS conferences, and then one comparing all conference and then one comparing FBS and FCS

- - - Updated - - -

This project will likely take about 2 weeks...unless I get a wild hair.

It's not hard, but it just takes time to track everything down and organize it

[clenz]

CUSA added

MAC to get added tomorrow as well as Big Sky...I hope

[clenz]

MAC completed

Working on the FBS comparison now sheet now.

FCS dates likely to be pushed back....work at work is getting in the way of doing this at work.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

CUSA is better...but not by much.


The MAC, AAC, and MWC blow them completley out of the water. If the MAC added, on average, roughly 7 million to their budgets they'd be nearly identical to the AAC.

How does the MAC blow them out of the water, exactly? Not in terms of how good their teams are.

People usually say they are better because they have had ranked teams, but have any of the ranked MAC teams they have have really done anything to show the deserved to be ranked?

The year that Kent State and NIU were both ranked going into the MACCG Kent State got beaten by Arkansas State. You can't tell me NIU and Kent were any better than Arkansas State was that year. The SBC and CUSA just play tougher P5 games (i.e. the SEC and Big 12, not the B1G) and that makes it harder for them to get ranked.

And BTW, this year Bowling Green who got to the MAC championship was curb stomped by Western Kentucky and also lost to Ball State (who of course lost to Indiana State).

The G5 hierarchy is like this...

1. The Mountain West and AAC

2. Sun Belt, CUSA, MAC

The difference between 1 and 2 is usually the quality of the teams at the top.

[clenz]

MAC is open and completed.

The FBS conferences are in a sheet to compare them by school and by conference. I will add FCS conferences to that sheet as I go

[Sader87]

Appreciate you doing this clenz, but what exactly are you looking to prove or show here?

Holy Cross, for instance, who many here think (and we've shown ourselves on the field) is a low-mid FCS program but in terms of facility-size (23,500), athletic budget (24MM) and endowment (roughly 750MM) fares very well with many of the G5 schools.

[clenz]

Appreciate you doing this clenz, but what exactly are you looking to prove or show here?

Holy Cross, for instance, who many here think (and we've shown ourselves on the field) is a low-mid FCS program but in terms of facility-size (23,500), athletic budget (24MM) and endowment (roughly 750MM) fares very well with many of the G5 schools.
I'm not looking to prove anything. I'm giving a single stop shop for quick browing when it comes to FBS/FCS discussion.

Hell...if you'd read the first post of the thread...


This is not a thing to draw definitive conclusions on. There are dozens more factors than I put into this. It is simply football stadium and budgets. Take from it what you want.

If you don't see the point in it don't ****ing look at it...right?

[Sader87]

Jeez...just askin'......carry on.

[clenz]

You'll also see, very quickly, once the FCS conference start rolling out that there is quite a gap between 99% of the FCS and even the Sun Belt

- - - Updated - - -


Jeez...just askin'......carry on.
Just read the damn post rather than asking a smart ass question that implies you think this entire thing is stupid..

[Sader87]

I didn't propose it was stupid...you just inferred that. I think it's very interesting actually. My query was one of what do you think you (or we) will ultimately glean from this information: The G5 schools are doomed? The G5 and the Top FCS will merge? What to make of schools like HC, Princeton, Harvard, Furman et. al. that meet or exceed the G5 figures here?

[clenz]

I'm not even going to talk, on this thread about the PL. That conference, and it's posters, finds a way to ruin 87% of the threads on this site by making it about them. Not going to start that on this one.

[clenz]

Nah...screw it...I'm in.

The PL and Ivy (and SWAC..so to speak) have a holier than you attitude on everything.

The resources might be there, but no one from the PL is going to "lower themselves" to an FBS conference. They don't want to be associated with them. That's fine. Keep you little "good ol boys club" going out there. It's great for you.

The rest of the FCS isn't like that and it's interesting to see what our competition has vs what we have, especially given the P5 split with the G5/FCS merge of some kind.

[dbackjon]

Where are you getting your data from?

[Cleets]

Nah...screw it...I'm in.

The PL and Ivy (and SWAC..so to speak) have a holier than you attitude on everything.

The resources might be there, but no one from the PL is going to "lower themselves" to an FBS conference. They don't want to be associated with them. That's fine. Keep you little "good ol boys club" going out there. It's great for you.

The rest of the FCS isn't like that and it's interesting to see what our competition has vs what we have, especially given the P5 split with the G5/FCS merge of some kind.


http://media.giphy.com/media/p69sF1qqWsCZy/giphy.gif

[AggieManiac704]

you can skip us lol

[clenz]

Where are you getting your data from?capacities and enrollment from school sites
Budgets from Dept of Ed and USA today
Endowment from school sites or verified sites
Photos from Google

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

[dbackjon]

capacities and enrollment from school sites
Budgets from Dept of Ed and USA today
Endowment from school sites or verified sites
Photos from Google

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

NAU:

Capacity - 10,000
Undergrad Enrollment (Flagstaff only) - 18,575
Budget - $15,084,000
2013 Endowment - $107,275,000

[runmymouth]

SHSU
From what I can find for you,
Capacity: 12,593 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bowers_Stadium)
Enrollment: 19,719 (http://www.shsu.edu/pin_www/T@S/2014/fall2014enrollment.htm)
Endowment: 52,000,000 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sam_Houston_State_University)
Budget: 8,100,000 (http://www.gobearkats.com//pdf8/721637.pdf)

[Hammerhead]

You also need to compare the number of varsity sports schools sponsor when comparing budgets.

[melloware13]

Delaware info:
Capacity: 22,000
UG Enrollment: 16,871 (Newark), 17,729 (Total)
Endowment: $1,171,000,000
Budget: $36,074,840 (21 Sports)

[melloware13]

Here's a list of schools with Endowments over $1 Billion:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_colleges_and_universities_in_the_United_St ates_by_endowment

FCS schools are: Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Prairie View A&M (TAMU System), Columbia, Pennsylvania, UC Davis (using the UC System), Cornell, Dartmouth, Brown, Richmond, Georgetown, Delaware, Lehigh.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Since it's FCS vs FBS I'll post Temple's stats.

Temple University, State-Related (Public)
Conference: G5 American Athletic Conference
Capacity: 67,000
Enrollment: Undergrad 28,242 Grad 9,377 Total 37,619
Endowment $323,800,000
Budget: $38,500,000 (19 Sports)

[clenz]

If you want to create the sheets feel free to add what you wish.

I'll stop and let you do it...

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

[clenz]

Let's put it this way...nit picking the **** out of what is included, not included, semantics after ive spent roughly 12 or 14 hours putting together what ive done already...well less than half as there ate something like 126 fcs schools i need to grab everything for and average and put into sheet form...is good enough incentives for me to ****ing stop.

Im not creating a full university profile on these ****ing things.

I never claimed to be...****...i said in the first post i inclded about 4 of a couple dozen criteria to loom at.


Do it yourselves from now on

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

[dbackjon]

What the heck Clenz? We thought we were helping you get info

[clenz]

What the heck Clenz? We thought we were helping you get info
Nah...that i appreciate.

It's the douchey nit picking of why am i dpzong8this and what i am and not including

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

[Catatonic]

I've been doing this on the NDSU to the B12 thread but it deserves it's own thread for discussion.

There's yearly chatter on how the top FCS programs would compete with the G5 and some could/should be in the P5.

Well, I wanted to take a look to see how far away us FCS schools really are from our FBS counterparts.

This is not a thing to draw definitive conclusions on. There are dozens more factors than I put into this. It is simply football stadium and budgets. Take from it what you want.

*Click the link to be taken to a slide show for each conference*

I will be adding all of the G5 and FCS conferences are time goes. If a team uses more than one venue (UMASS, SWAC schools, a couple others) I will be using your "on campus" stadium.

G5 Conferences
American (https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1lgUXLFcT39DudGQcYaIxVm9OvY4NZ1cDNrYfsQoVIEU/edit?usp=sharing)
Conference USA (https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1MVLSrPGDeG-2yr28T5Om2r-B4xx-dIdUipQyjl_ibkA/edit?usp=sharing)
Mid-American (https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1FRu4OqaH9hx_6-83AySwk29gJAhz_r_t2_TXP8_exVo/edit?usp=sharing)
Moutntain West (https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1Q9eakIvsluwL0sFoyw1T4_zSR2q6YCa57EGPaaq3AoY/edit?usp=sharing)
Sun Belt (https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1cCE3bmo9LPnWBr--WhEvSeUJwvnZY128RtDOYef7snI/edit#slide=id.g55bd79948_01)

FCS Conferences
Big Sky - in progress
Big South - on deck
Colonial - COMING SOON
Ivy - COMING SOON
MEAC - COMING SOON
MVFC - COMING SOON
Northeast - COMING SOON
Ohio Valley - COMING SOON
Patriot - COMING SOON
Pioneer - COMING SOON
Southern - COMING SOON
Southland - COMING SOON
SWAC - COMING SOON

Conference Comparison (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1zm1LtmMlZLJOgPaU5UhSyTwlG20-GGd5M2RCkpWY5e8/edit?usp=sharing) - in progress but open

Using the median rather than averages might be a better way of comparing conferences. For example, CUSA' average endowment is an inflated number due to the 4 plus billion at Rice. The result is the average is greater than the endowment of any school in the conference not named Rice.

[DFW HOYA]

Georgetown University (1789)
Conference: Football: Patriot League; All Else: Big East Conference
Football "Stadium" Capacity: 2,400
Enrollment: Undergrad 7,636 Grad 10,213 Total 17,849
Endowment $1.3 billion
Budget: $34,524,047 (29 Sports)

[citdog]

Georgetown University (1789)
Conference: Football: Patriot League; All Else: Big East Conference
Football "Stadium" Capacity: 2,400
Enrollment: Undergrad 7,636 Grad 10,213 Total 17,849
Endowment $1.3 billion
Budget: $34,524,047 (29 Sports)



1.3 BILLION but too poor to compete.....

[DFW HOYA]

1.3 BILLION but too poor to compete.....

Endowments are largely irrelvant. An endowment gift to the law school is not fungible to athletics.

Back on topic: Football's budget of $1.6 million is low, agreed. But it's the most of any Georgetown sport outside men's basketball. The fact of the matter is that with 29 sports, not everyone gets what they want. And Georgetown very much wants a 29-sport program.

[UIWWildthing]

Serious question: Why is Idaho still at the FBS level?

[dbackjon]

Serious question: Why is Idaho still at the FBS level?


Pride

[Bisonator]

Pride

Pride? Haha holy **** I would have thought they lost that along time ago!xlolx

[walliver]

The final numbers will be interesting. Total budget may be misleading to some extent. The additional 44 scholarships required for FBS play produces a significant increase in expenses (22 football + 22 Title IX). This results in higher quality players sitting on the bench.

FBS conferences have higher facility standards (and costs). Whether this actually benefits the athletes is questionable, and at times a think it is an arbitrary expense designed to scare away lower budget programs. FBS also allows more coaches on the staff (more $), and now allows unlimited recruiting staff.

In fact, I think much of the added expenses in FBS football are designed to keep the club relatively exclusive.

There are no FCS (or Sun Belt, C-USA, or MAC teams for that matter) who deserve to be in a P5 conference. Comparing top G5 and top FCS teams to P5 botton-dwellers doesn't count. There may be a few P5 schools that should be FCS in an ideal world; e.g., Wake Forest should return to the SoCon, but no P5 school is going to voluntarily walk away from the P5 money.

[clenz]

The final numbers will be interesting. Total budget may be misleading to some extent. The additional 44 scholarships required for FBS play produces a significant increase in expenses (22 football + 22 Title IX). This results in higher quality players sitting on the bench.

FBS conferences have higher facility standards (and costs). Whether this actually benefits the athletes is questionable, and at times a think it is an arbitrary expense designed to scare away lower budget programs. FBS also allows more coaches on the staff (more $), and now allows unlimited recruiting staff.

In fact, I think much of the added expenses in FBS football are designed to keep the club relatively exclusive.

There are no FCS (or Sun Belt, C-USA, or MAC teams for that matter) who deserve to be in a P5 conference. Comparing top G5 and top FCS teams to P5 botton-dwellers doesn't count. There may be a few P5 schools that should be FCS in an ideal world; e.g., Wake Forest should return to the SoCon, but no P5 school is going to voluntarily walk away from the P5 money.
The thing is though, that the additional money to sustain an FBS program that would be needed in the budget still isn't enough to get any (excluding about 5-8 FCS programs) anywhere close to G5 athletic numbers. I'm doing the Big Sky right now and the average budget is well under 15m.

That's the reason I'm also adding stadium photos to this and not leaving it just at numbers.

Let's pretend that sports are added to cover the extra scholarships and make the budget irrelevant. The number of FCS schools that would't need to build all new stadiums/significantly expand/remodel is very very very very small.

- - - Updated - - -

Endowment's don't directly relate to athletics, but it's an interesting view of school donors/finances.

[tomq04]

Serious question: Why is Idaho still at the FBS level?

I'll try, my coworker is a die hard Vandals fan, despite being an EWU alum.

The problem at the football level is that the batch of kids promised scholarships and an opportunity to play at the FBS level, suddenly changing that causes a lot of disruption. Also apparently they are afraid doners might disappear if they fell back down to the FCS level. That being said, every other sport but football merged with the Big Sky, and I know at the very least the basketball programs are excited about that.

[dbackjon]

The thing is though, that the additional money to sustain an FBS program that would be needed in the budget still isn't enough to get any (excluding about 5-8 FCS programs) anywhere close to G5 athletic numbers. I'm doing the Big Sky right now and the average budget is well under 15m.

That's the reason I'm also adding stadium photos to this and not leaving it just at numbers.

Let's pretend that sports are added to cover the extra scholarships and make the budget irrelevant. The number of FCS schools that would't need to build all new stadiums/significantly expand/remodel is very very very very small.

- - - Updated - - -

Endowment's don't directly relate to athletics, but it's an interesting view of school donors/finances.


A jump to FBS would usually result in a 5 million increase in budgets - 2.5 for football, 2.5 or so for offsetting women's sports. When comparing budgets between FCS and FBS, keep that in mind. That doesn't mean a FCS school COULDN'T have the additional 5 million in their budget if they choose to go FBS. The Sun Belt is on the low end of FBS budgets - and that is WITH FBS football. Which likely means that many FCS schools allocate more money to non-football sports than Sun Belt schools do.

[clenz]

A jump to FBS would usually result in a 5 million increase in budgets - 2.5 for football, 2.5 or so for offsetting women's sports. When comparing budgets between FCS and FBS, keep that in mind. That doesn't mean a FCS school COULDN'T have the additional 5 million in their budget if they choose to go FBS. The Sun Belt is on the low end of FBS budgets - and that is WITH FBS football. Which likely means that many FCS schools allocate more money to non-football sports than Sun Belt schools do.
It doesn't mean they couldn't, but I would bet very few could just go "Yep, no big deal. Let's do it!"

Outside of the Sun Belt every other FBS conference still has a considerably higher average budget.

It isn't just a "here's the extra scholarship costs added to budget" either. Coaches need to be paid more, assistant coaches paid more, travel parties are bigger (I think), most coaches needed, facilities costs are higher, game day expenses, etc...

I'm not saying it can't be done - it has. I'm simply trying to show the start differences between the G5 and 99% of the FCS due to all of the "the FCS is basically the same as the F5) talk I've read here, there, and many places lately.

[dbackjon]

It doesn't mean they couldn't, but I would bet very few could just go "Yep, no big deal. Let's do it!"

Outside of the Sun Belt every other FBS conference still has a considerably higher average budget.

It isn't just a "here's the extra scholarship costs added to budget" either. Coaches need to be paid more, assistant coaches paid more, travel parties are bigger (I think), most coaches needed, facilities costs are higher, game day expenses, etc...

I'm not saying it can't be done - it has. I'm simply trying to show the start differences between the G5 and 99% of the FCS due to all of the "the FCS is basically the same as the F5) talk I've read here, there, and many places lately.


I think you have to break FBS into levels.

P5 obviously much different
AAC/MW obviously much different.

The other three conferences are mixed - some clearly above FCS level, others not.

Look at it this way - three schools in their first year of FBS play all became bowl eligible, Georgia Southern won the Sun Belt, App State, which couldn't even beat Liberty, finished second. Sun Belt is at FCS level, for the most part.

[clenz]

I think you have to break FBS into levels.

P5 obviously much different
AAC/MW obviously much different.

The other three conferences are mixed - some clearly above FCS level, others not.

Look at it this way - three schools in their first year of FBS play all became bowl eligible, Georgia Southern won the Sun Belt, App State, which couldn't even beat Liberty, finished second. Sun Belt is at FCS level, for the most part.
I don't disagree with that at all.

To assume that more than a handful of FCS programs could just step in and compete week after week, year after year, is pretty crazy though

[dbackjon]

I don't disagree with that at all.

To assume that more than a handful of FCS programs could just step in and compete week after week, year after year, is pretty crazy though


In this year's Sun Belt - probably 20-25 teams would be .500 or better in the Sun Belt
Even NAU would beat:
Troy
Georgia State
UL-Monroe
NMSU
Idaho

UNI would be in top 4 of the Sun Belt, easily.

[clenz]

Clearly the Sun Belt is nothing other than a normal FCS conference.

The issue is the talk of realigning the FCS and G5 into a new division. The MWC and AAC already don't like being lumped with the other three. They sure as hell aren't going to let conferences with smaller stadiums that were a subdivision below be lumped in with them.

As I sad, there are dozens of things other than what I'm putting on the sheet that go into this whole thing. It is startling though to look at the differences between the G5 (sans SBC) and FCS. I always knew some FCS programs are/were well behind but it's crazy to look at each and every one, even some of the "bigger names" and see how far they would have to go to get close to being a G5 stadium, budget, etc...

[clenz]

I'm not even just talking being competitive. We've seen with Texas State, UNC-C (though they were a start up that was planned to move up) and Georgia State that being competitive doesn't matter.

I'm not going to go through the trouble of finding media market size and all of that. Those are schools, though, that have great potential to grow, get better, bring markets, etc... There is a limit for each school and there are very few FCS schools that have a limit all that much higher than they are at now.


Also, we need to realize that many of these FBS schools are FBS because they were FBS long ago. If a "true" realignment ever happened where conference alignments were thrown out and programs were "drafted" into football only conferences who would be taken. I would bet on less than 20 FCS programs

[Sader87]

The Ivies, by and large, could make the jump from FCS to FBS in terms of facilities/$$$ and be comparable if not bettah than most P5 programs tomorrow.

They have philosophically chosen not to.

There are some Patriot schools that could probably do it (go FBS) but it would be a strain on their enrollments, game-day facility size etc.

[Bisonator]

The Ivies, by and large, could make the jump from FCS to FBS in terms of facilities/$$$ and be comparable if not bettah than most P5 programs tomorrow.

They have philosophically chosen not to.

There are some Patriot schools that could probably do it (go FBS) but it would be a strain on their enrollments, game-day facility size etc.

They could all drop to D3 too and no one would notice. ;)

[clenz]

I am changing the endowment to sports...just because.

It does bring another way to look at the budget

[clenz]

It's also interesting to see that some of the schools don't sponsor as many sports as I thought they would.

The AAC average is only 19. Only UCONN and Navy are more than 19 with 20 and 26 respectively.

Taking Navy out as the major outlier the average drops to 17

[Sycamore62]

It's also interesting to see that some of the schools don't sponsor as many sports as I thought they would.

The AAC average is only 19. Only UCONN and Navy are more than 19 with 20 and 26 respectively.

Taking Navy out as the major outlier the average drops to 17

I was told that every cadet or whatever they are at navy are required to participate in a sport. that raises how many they can fill I would think.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Both Army and Navy compete in a boatload of Patriot League sports. The Ivy League sponsors more sports overall, I think, but the Patriot League comes awfully close to them in the number of sports that they sponsor. Furthermore, PL teams generally compete in some other, non-PL sponsored sports, like hockey (Holy Cross, Colgate) and wrestling (Lehigh). PL schools sponsor a lot of sports, even when they don't necessarily have to.

This seems to extend to Fordham and G'Town. In the Big East G'Town (23) shares the Big East with DePaul (13), and Fordham (20) shares the A-10 with St. Bonaventure (14).

[Sader87]

So much of this is "apples to oranges".....I applaud clenz's efforts in doing this but even with # of sports it's hard to gauge eg. Holy Cross has more D1 athletic teams than the University of Texas-Austin.

[dbackjon]

Download files from here:

http://ope.ed.gov/athletics/GetDownloadFile.aspx

This will allow you to download 2012-2013 data

If you go to each school you can get 2013-14 data. For NAU, there was a big increase in revenue/expenses between years.


Your welcome

[clenz]

So much of this is "apples to oranges".....I applaud clenz's efforts in doing this but even with # of sports it's hard to gauge eg. Holy Cross has more D1 athletic teams than the University of Texas-Austin.
I get it...you think this is below you.

Then get the **** out and don't come back.

Not a hard ****ing concept to understand.

You've done nothing but be a douchebag about this (and..well..most topics I've encountered you on). Feel free to put this topic (or me for all I give a ****) on ignore

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Temple had originally cut 7 sports, 24 to 17, when we moved to the AAC. Those sports cut included men's gymnastics, men's indoor/outdoor track, men's track and field, baseball, men's and women's crew and softball. After some uproar and commitment from the city of Philadelphia to update our boathouse, Temple re-instated Men's and women's crew. We will have 19 sports moving forward....

[clenz]

Temple had originally cut 7 sports, 24 to 17, when we moved to the AAC. Those sports cut included men's gymnastics, men's indoor/outdoor track, men's track and field, baseball, men's and women's crew and softball. After some uproar and commitment from the city of Philadelphia to update our boathouse, Temple re-instated Men's and women's crew. We will have 19 sports moving forward....
Noted

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

[Sycamore62]

Temple had originally cut 7 sports, 24 to 17, when we moved to the AAC. Those sports cut included men's gymnastics, men's indoor/outdoor track, men's track and field, baseball, men's and women's crew and softball. After some uproar and commitment from the city of Philadelphia to update our boathouse, Temple re-instated Men's and women's crew. We will have 19 sports moving forward....

So Temple has 2 live crews?

sorry I probably shouldn't have done that.

[DFW HOYA]

This seems to extend to Fordham and G'Town. In the Big East G'Town (23) shares the Big East with DePaul (13), and Fordham (20) shares the A-10 with St. Bonaventure (14).

Georgetown has 29, not 23 teams.

[caribbeanhen]

tossed out my annual question at work about anyone gonna be watchin the big FCS playoff game Friday night...., I would give you the transcript but I bet you guys already have a good idea how it went

[caribbeanhen]

I get it...you think this is below you.

Then get the **** out and don't come back.

Not a hard ****ing concept to understand.

You've done nothing but be a douchebag about this (and..well..most topics I've encountered you on). Feel free to put this topic (or me for all I give a ****) on ignore

Clenz, I didn't know you were once a Marinero...... not many of you in the Mid-west

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Georgetown has 29, not 23 teams.

Wikipedia lists 23 teams, 11 men's, 11 women's, and 1 co-ed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgetown_Hoyas


Georgetown University fields 23 varsity level sports teams, 11 men's teams, 11 women's teams, and one co-ed team. Intercollegiate sports include (inaugural season in parentheses):


Men's: baseball (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/College_baseball) (1870), basketball (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basketball) (1907), crew (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/College_rowing_(United_States)) (1876; 1958), cross country (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross_country_running) (1924), football (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_football) (1887), golf (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golf) (1925),lacrosse (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lacrosse) (1951), soccer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soccer) (1952), swimming (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swimming_(sport)) and diving (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diving) (1949), tennis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tennis) (1920), and track and field (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Track_and_field) (1891)
Women's: basketball (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basketball) (1960), crew (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/College_rowing_(United_States)) (1975), cross country (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross_country_running) (1976), field hockey (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Field_hockey) (1960), golf (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golf) (2001), lacrosse (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lacrosse) (1975),soccer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soccer) (1991), softball (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Softball) (2005), swimming (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swimming_(sport)) and diving (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diving) (1975), tennis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tennis) (1960), track and field (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Track_and_field) (1976), and volleyball (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volleyball)(1960)
Coed: sailing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sailing) (1937)[20] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgetown_Hoyas#cite_note-20)[21] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgetown_Hoyas#cite_note-HoyaSaxaMag-21)



There are other club teams, such as rugby.

Point being, though, even when the Big East allows a member with only 13 sports, Georgetown goes well over and beyond that number because it sees intercollegiate sports as something they want to do and find important.

[DFW HOYA]

Wikipedia lists 23 teams, 11 men's, 11 women's, and 1 co-ed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgetown_Hoyas


It's always referred to as 29 because indoor and outdoor track are separate sports per the NCAA. Also, Georgetown competes with separate teams in heavyweight and lightweight rowing.

[dbackjon]

The NCAA minimum is 14 sports

indoor and outdoor track are separate sports

it has to be accounted for that way in the numbers