Update your resume, FCS members, UAB close to dropping football

[dgtw]

The University of Alabama-Birmingham appears close to dropping football.
Coach Bill Clark told ESPN.com on Sunday he expects the school to end a program that has struggled financially and on the field for years.
Clark told ESPN.com: "Unless something changes before the weekend ends, I think it's over. I think the odds are very high it ends this week."


http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/wireStory/reports-uab-heading-shutting-football-27266131

C-USA will give UAB the boot for not having football, leaving them with 13 full members with Charlotte joining for football next year. I imagine they will dip into the Sun Belt for a replacement, my guess would be Georgia State since being in a big media market is a plus even if nobody cares about your crappy program.

That would leave them with ten football members (Idaho and New Mexico State are football only) and two non-football members.

Anyone think they'll call someone up from the minors? If so, who would be the most likely candidates?

[rokamortis]

http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/wireStory/reports-uab-heading-shutting-football-27266131

C-USA will give UAB the boot for not having football, leaving them with 13 full members with Charlotte joining for football next year. I imagine they will dip into the Sun Belt for a replacement, my guess would be Georgia State since being in a big media market is a plus even if nobody cares about your crappy program.

That would leave them with ten football members (Idaho and New Mexico State are football only) and two non-football members.

Anyone think they'll call someone up from the minors? If so, who would be the most likely candidates?

JMU has been hoping for CUSA, right? I would think some of the Sun Belt schools would have a better chance and then the Sun Belt would need to look at Liberty or others.

[MSUDuo]

Missouri State!!!

[BisonFan02]

http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/wireStory/reports-uab-heading-shutting-football-27266131

C-USA will give UAB the boot for not having football, leaving them with 13 full members with Charlotte joining for football next year. I imagine they will dip into the Sun Belt for a replacement, my guess would be Georgia State since being in a big media market is a plus even if nobody cares about your crappy program.

That would leave them with ten football members (Idaho and New Mexico State are football only) and two non-football members.

Anyone think they'll call someone up from the minors? If so, who would be the most likely candidates?

Minors? I thought that was already the 'belt and CUSA?

- - - Updated - - -


Missouri State!!!

......I rest my case. :D

[centennial]

Mvfc is less minor than Slumbelt. Missouri State and JMU are next up, Liberty no one wants.

[clenz]

No way JMU gets jumped for that spot again… right?

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[FargoBison]

No way JMU gets jumped for that spot again… right?

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In the CUSA? They passed on the Sun Belt once already.

[dgtw]

With Ga. Southern rolling through the league unbeaten and Appy doing well, I agree the Sun Belt isn't much. Minors was just a figure of speech and not meant to be an accurate description.

[MSUDuo]

No way JMU gets jumped for that spot again… right?

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My hope is that CUSA picks a Sun Belt team and then the Sun Belt goes after JMU and MO State again together.

[melloware13]

Among FCS teams, I'd think JMU, Missouri State, and Liberty would be top of the list. I recall somewhere seeing that JMU was hesitant to join CUSA when ODU did because they wanted to stay on par with Delaware, but that could be in the past. If CUSA is alright with a football-only member, I'd think UMass fills that spot. Quality wise, I'd think one of the Louisiana schools would be the top targets from the Sun Belt

[clenz]

Among FCS teams, I'd think JMU, Missouri State, and Liberty would be top of the list. I recall somewhere seeing that JMU was hesitant to join CUSA when ODU did because they wanted to stay on par with Delaware, but that could be in the past. If CUSA is alright with a football-only member, I'd think UMass fills that spot. Quality wise, I'd think one of the Louisiana schools would be the top targets from the Sun Belt
Forgot that umass was needing a home.


Seriously, I forgot they had a program anymore

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[knucklehead]

Liberty is peaking at the right time and in a good financial position in these tough times (paying players, etc.). Liberty will get a strong look and LU Admin will do all they can to get in.

JMU has NO SBC interest, and we beat them last night. Therefore we go first, haha.

[rokamortis]

Liberty is peaking at the right time and in a good financial position in these tough times (paying players, etc.). Liberty will get a strong look and LU Admin will do all they can to get in.

You guys are playing players?

[centennial]

Liberty is peaking at the right time and in a good financial position in these tough times (paying players, etc.). Liberty will get a strong look and LU Admin will do all they can to get in.

JMU has NO SBC interest, and we beat them last night. Therefore we go first, haha.
No one wants to deal with the religious stuff from Liberty. Plus JMU is much better academically.

[melloware13]

You guys are playing players?

Trying to position themselves for if the Southwest Conference gets back together

[Lehigh Football Nation]

If they look to FCS, JMU would probably be the 1st choice, but then who goes to the C-USA Western division?

I think it much more likely they'd nab UL-Lafayette or Arkansas State. Maybe South Alabama, who also would be the final bit of hoops value that the Sun Belt would provide.

[Cocky]

If CUSA takes a AL team from SB, JSU could fill the spot in the SB

[Lehigh Football Nation]

If CUSA takes a AL team from SB, JSU could fill the spot in the SB

Good point. I personally think USA is the frontrunner to go, so then JSU's chances go up. Though I think they'd pursue Liberty first.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

CUSA will probably take South Alabama if anyone.

CUSA loves them some markets, actual athletic competitiveness be damned.

[dgtw]

If CUSA takes a AL team from SB, JSU could fill the spot in the SB

Troy might cock block that.

[Sycamore62]

No one wants to deal with the religious stuff from Liberty. Plus JMU is much better academically.

It's cute to say they don't want the religious stuff but what they don't want to do is compete against a potential financial juggernaut

[IBleedYellow]

It's cute to say they don't want the religious stuff but what they don't want to do is compete against a potential financial juggernaut
Fairly certain that's what's actually going on there, imo.

Sad to hear what's happening at UAB right now. I've done some research on it and the Alabama University system Board of trustees has 15 members. 13 of them have undergraduate or law degrees from the University of Alabama. Only 3 members of the BOT are related to UAB.

Seems sketchy to me.

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[hebmskebm]

Fairly certain that's what's actually going on there, imo.

Sad to hear what's happening at UAB right now. I've done some research on it and the Alabama University system Board of trustees has 15 members. 13 of them have undergraduate or law degrees from the University of Alabama. Only 3 members of the BOT are related to UAB.

Seems sketchy to me.

Sent from a TI-83+ Calculator

The same forces that are killing UAB football tried to kill UA-Huntsville's hockey program. They just don't want any athletic resources outside of the bare minimum to go anywhere but Tuscaloosa.

[centennial]

The same forces that are killing UAB football tried to kill UA-Huntsville's hockey program. They just don't want any athletic resources outside of the bare minimum to go anywhere but Tuscaloosa.
Agreed. Same as Nebraska and Minnesota.

[knucklehead]

It's cute to say they don't want the religious stuff but what they don't want to do is compete against a potential financial juggernaut
Exactly! One unnamed SBC AD said that he wasn't sure anyone knew that LU was D1. AKST AD said LU couldn't be competitive in SBC. All masking for they don't want to deal with the money and the potential.

[bonarae]

The same forces that are killing UAB football tried to kill UA-Huntsville's hockey program. They just don't want any athletic resources outside of the bare minimum to go anywhere but Tuscaloosa.

What about BYU-Provo and BYU-Hawaii? The latter is shutting down its ENTIRE athletics program...

[number1]

http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/wireStory/reports-uab-heading-shutting-football-27266131

C-USA will give UAB the boot for not having football, leaving them with 13 full members with Charlotte joining for football next year. I imagine they will dip into the Sun Belt for a replacement, my guess would be Georgia State since being in a big media market is a plus even if nobody cares about your crappy program.

That would leave them with ten football members (Idaho and New Mexico State are football only) and two non-football members.

Anyone think they'll call someone up from the minors? If so, who would be the most likely candidates?

UL-Lafayette more than likely.

[Sycamore62]

I wouldn't be aware that UAB exists if it weren't for their athletic program. Short-sightedness at its pinnacle.

[IBleedYellow]

I wouldn't be aware that UAB exists if it weren't for their athletic program. Short-sightedness at its pinnacle.
They have an amazing medical program, which actually brings in all of their money for the University system.

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[clenz]

I wouldn't be aware that UAB exists if it weren't for their athletic program. Short-sightedness at its pinnacle.
I could say that of about 99 percent of the fcs

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[Redbird Ray]

Illinois State mentions its aspirations to go to the FBS every now and then, but I think most supporters have lost stamina on that front. I would be ok with a move to the Sun Belt or CUSA, even with all sports. Most of my ISU board cohorts think I'm crazy for saying ISU should move to the Sun Belt, but MVC basketball just isn't what it used to be, and frankly, MVC hoops is much closer in level of competition to the Sun Belt than it is to the American or MWC. CUSA would be a fairly lateral bball move. Both conferences would be an upgrade for the baseball program.

[centennial]

Illinois State mentions its aspirations to go to the FBS every now and then, but I think most supporters have lost stamina on that front. I would be ok with a move to the Sun Belt or CUSA, even with all sports. Most of my ISU board cohorts think I'm crazy for saying ISU should move to the Sun Belt, but MVC basketball just isn't what it used to be, and frankly, MVC hoops is much closer in level of competition to the Sun Belt than it is to the American or MWC. CUSA would be a fairly lateral bball move. Both conferences would be an upgrade for the baseball program.
Sun Belt is worst than the summit. It is a one big league, no where close to MVC for basketball.

[Catsfan90]

Forgot that umass was needing a home.


Seriously, I forgot they had a program anymore

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I think that they'd like people to believe they don't. There move up has been a costly disaster.

[Sycamore62]

I could say that of about 99 percent of the fcs

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I understand the Alabama problem but this is a good reason to keep the program. Advertising plus getting to take money you get with 1 hand and put it in the other hand and say you are spending it.

[chattanoogamocs]

Many on here may not know that UTC was originally the University of Chattanooga, a pretty prestigious private Episcopalian (with law and medical schools and it own "satellite campus" in Athens TN, which is now Tenn Wesleyan) school for 85 years before effectively being forced into the UT System in 1969. For those reasons, there has always been quite a bit of animosity towards all things Knoxville in Chattanooga. But, I give the UT System credit for pretty much staying out of our business when it comes to the athletics department at UTC. What they are doing to UAB is bull****.

[Cocky]

Illinois State mentions its aspirations to go to the FBS every now and then, but I think most supporters have lost stamina on that front. I would be ok with a move to the Sun Belt or CUSA, even with all sports. Most of my ISU board cohorts think I'm crazy for saying ISU should move to the Sun Belt, but MVC basketball just isn't what it used to be, and frankly, MVC hoops is much closer in level of competition to the Sun Belt than it is to the American or MWC. CUSA would be a fairly lateral bball move. Both conferences would be an upgrade for the baseball program.

Sun Belt basketball isn't as good as OVC basketball. OVC basketball isn't as good as MVC basketball.

[clenz]

Illinois State mentions its aspirations to go to the FBS every now and then, but I think most supporters have lost stamina on that front. I would be ok with a move to the Sun Belt or CUSA, even with all sports. Most of my ISU board cohorts think I'm crazy for saying ISU should move to the Sun Belt, but MVC basketball just isn't what it used to be, and frankly, MVC hoops is much closer in level of competition to the Sun Belt than it is to the American or MWC. CUSA would be a fairly lateral bball move. Both conferences would be an upgrade for the baseball program.
You are completely overreacting to what mvc basketball is.

If the conference slips this year it's because teams like Illinois State, Indiana State, and Missouri State fail more than anything else.

The MVC is in your schools hands now, not WSU, UNI or even Creighton at this point.

Your choices are 1. step your game up to fill what Creighton left or 2. cry that the conference isnt good anymore because you refuse to step your damn game up and start to carry your own damn weight in this conference rather than riding WSU, UNI, or Creghton's dick for national respect

It's programs like ISUr, Missouri State, and Evansville (maybe ISUb, too) that scare programs like WSU, ONE and Creighton. Why? Because these programs have carried the weight on the conference for the longest time roght now, we look around and see schools like ISUr and MSUcrying but not doing their part to fix it…. Oh, also preventing the conference from looking at the truly best options because they don't want to pay for travel to any school outside of Illinois. That's why we are stuck with Loyola and not Belmont, ORU, Denver, etc…… you know, schools that would keep WSU interested.

The MVC has a top 10 ranked team right now and another (UNI) that is right on the very precipice of a top 25 rank.

Again, step YOUR game up and the MVC will not drop. It's only going to drop if YOU let it. But thats what ISUr and MSU are doing. They'd rather cry than fix it

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[Sader87]

I think a lot of you guys are looking at this somewhat backwards. I know there are some issues endemic to UAB (and the Alabama system) but I also think UAB may be the first of more than a few of FBS schools to either drop football or possibly realign to FCS.

Hawaii seems to be on-deck after UAB.

[UNH Fanboi]

I think a lot of you guys are looking at this somewhat backwards. I know there are some issues endemic to UAB (and the Alabama system) but I also think UAB may be the first of more than a few of FBS schools to either drop football or possibly realign to FCS.

Hawaii seems to be on-deck after UAB.

I'd be shocked if any team drops to FCS from FBS. What would the logic be? If administrators are eyeing football, they're not going to take half measures that yield minimal cost savings and also reduce visibility. They'll just cut the program.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Alabama has 5 FBS programs and 3 FCS teams within their state university system. That's 8 division 1 athletic programs in a state that clearly can't afford to properly support all of them. Some of the fat needs to be trimmed imo. South Alabama going FBS in football really made no sense to me. What exactly are they trying to accomplish? UAB could exist or not and football in Alabama will go on. It's about War Eagle and Roll Tide and nothing else. Troy State and USA are just minions in the state.

If UAB does indeed drop football they need to pursue MVC membership. They'd be a great addition to the conference.

[bonarae]

I think a lot of you guys are looking at this somewhat backwards. I know there are some issues endemic to UAB (and the Alabama system) but I also think UAB may be the first of more than a few of FBS schools to either drop football or possibly realign to FCS.

Well, but at this point, nobody in the FBS seems to care about us (FCS) anymore, even talking negative about us (see ESPN College GameDay broadcasters that are in FCS-FCS games broadcast by the network.)


I'd be shocked if any team drops to FCS from FBS. What would the logic be? If administrators are eyeing football, they're not going to take half measures that yield minimal cost savings and also reduce visibility. They'll just cut the program.

I'd agree with this sentiment. Football sustainability is often the tipping point of an athletic department's viability. Though some programs have given up on football but became viable again after dropping it (see BU, they're now into hockey and lacrosse now), most others see their athletic programs' visibility falter without football (see Fullerton, they're only famous for baseball these days, as softball has fallen into hard times and wrestling was also axed in 2009, and also Hofstra and Pacific, whose presidents terminated the football program and their athletic programs are both no-namers right now.)

[hebmskebm]

I think a lot of you guys are looking at this somewhat backwards. I know there are some issues endemic to UAB (and the Alabama system) but I also think UAB may be the first of more than a few of FBS schools to either drop football or possibly realign to FCS.

Hawaii seems to be on-deck after UAB.

I can't imagine a hypothetical situation where a slew of FBS schools end football doesn't also include a slew of FCS schools ending football.

[bonarae]

Alabama has 5 FBS programs and 3 FCS teams. That's 8 division 1 athletic programs in a state that clearly can't afford to properly support all of them. Some of the fat needs to be trimmed imo. South Alabama going FBS in football really made no sense to me. What exactly are they trying to accomplish? UAB could exist or not and football in Alabama will go on. It's about War Eagle and Roll Tide and nothing else. Troy State and USA are just minions in the state.

If UAB does indeed drop football they need to pursue MVC membership. They're be a great addition to the conference.

How many Alabama state universities are members of lower NCAA divisions and NAIA? I think only Tuskegee is. They should learn from Michigan, Pennsylvania and New York, those three states' athletic programs are spread across all divisions.

[clenz]

If UAB does indeed drop football they need to pursue MVC membership. They're be a great addition to the conference.

PLEASE LET THAT HAPPEN...

PUH...LEESE!

Bring NMSU with you while your at it.

Then Missery State and Illinois State can take their happy asses elsewhere since they don't want to carry their own weight here.

[bonarae]

I can't imagine a hypothetical situation where a slew of FBS schools end football doesn't also include a slew of FCS schools ending football.

If so, which schools from our subdivision will end their programs? xchinscratchx

[Sader87]

I think the difference now though is that there will only be the P5 and really everybody else at the D1 level moving forward in the FBS play-off era.

There really isn't much difference between the bottom of the FBS and the top 3 or so conferences in the FCS.

A lot of the bottom third of the FBS today were once FCS programs and never really made economic sense playing at the FBS level.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

How many Alabama state universities are members of lower NCAA divisions and NAIA? I think only Tuskegee is. They should learn from Michigan, Pennsylvania and New York, those three states' athletic programs are spread across all divisions.

Those three states have it figured out. GVSU and Wayne State could easily be D1 athletic programs. Likewise with West Chester (Delaware's old friend), Bloomsburg and IUP in PA. NY is interesting because one could argue their FCS programs has been "funded" the best to succeed.

PA has really done it right. PSU, Pitt and Temple are safe if they want to be because the state has enough funds to go around. Temple's football program may never roll in money but they won't go broke either.

Ironically, there's an "importance of football at Temple" thread on the Temple board to discuss the UAB issue.....
http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=186&f=3506&t=13427053

[hebmskebm]

If so, which schools from our subdivision will end their programs? xchinscratchx

Axes can fall swiftly and suddenly, look at Hofstra and Northeastern. There are only a handful of schools in FCS that, if they announced they were canceling football tomorrow, I'd be stunned by. In a situation where schools are falling left and right, I can't see a world where lower end FBS schools, who generally have more students and have larger athletic budgets are decimated but their smaller FCS brethren skate by unharmed.

[Cocky]

How many Alabama state universities are members of lower NCAA divisions and NAIA? I think only Tuskegee is. They should learn from Michigan, Pennsylvania and New York, those three states' athletic programs are spread across all divisions.
North Alabama
West Alabama
Faulkner
Miles
Huntington
Concordia
the last four are private

[bonarae]

I think the difference now though is that there will only be the P5 and really everybody else at the D1 level moving forward in the FBS play-off era.

There really isn't much difference between the bottom of the FBS and the top 3 or so conferences in the FCS.

A lot of the bottom third of the FBS today were once FCS programs and never really made economic sense playing at the FBS level.

OK, what if football was given a fair and equal treatment along with the Olympic sports? Would the subdivisions never exist at all?

The greed of the P5 members shows that they're hurting some of the smaller members' commitment to football.

D2 and D3 have often been neverminded... xsmhx

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

I think the difference now though is that there will only be the P5 and really everybody else at the D1 level moving forward in the FBS play-off era.

There really isn't much difference between the bottom of the FBS and the top 3 or so conferences in the FCS.

A lot of the bottom third of the FBS today were once FCS programs and never really made economic sense playing at the FBS level.

If by the bottom of FBS you mean the Sun Belt and CUSA then yes. The AAC and MWC are in their different "tier" as is the MAC.

As a result nothing is really going to change because there's too many moving parts. The better programs in the G5, Boise State, Cincinnati, UCF, UConn, San Diego State, Navy, Marshall, Toledo, Northern Illinois, Fresno State, Wyoming, Utah State, Nevada, ECU, Air Force, etc will remain somewhat relevant nationally and the rest will pretty much fade away. Temple, UNLV, USF and some others will get by on location, market and just plugging away. Getting Notre Dame and Penn State at the Linc next year is automatic relevance.

There is very little hope for App State, Georgia Southern, FIU, FAU, North Texas, Idaho etc. Too many instate hurdles and inferior facilities. I don't believe their alumni presence is that strong either. That's where the MAC excels....

[PaladinFan]

I think the difference now though is that there will only be the P5 and really everybody else at the D1 level moving forward in the FBS play-off era.

There really isn't much difference between the bottom of the FBS and the top 3 or so conferences in the FCS.

A lot of the bottom third of the FBS today were once FCS programs and never really made economic sense playing at the FBS level.

Case in point. Georgia Southern and App State just finished first and third respectively in the Sun Belt. Both squads were 4-4 in the SoCon last year. Georgia Southern had a 4 win improvement by moving to the FBS.

[Sader87]

In all honesty, football doesn't make a lot of economic sense for just about anyone not in the P5.

As Lehigh TU Owl pointed out, there are some non-P5 schools who still draw decently and are successful at the FBS (though I think he overstates the MAC's success imo) but I wonder how long that remains as they become more marginalized every year?

The only schools/programs that probably make some sense at the FCS-level are the Ivy and Patriot League schools who have the $$$/tradition to absorb football losses year after year and the public universities (primarily in the CAA, MVFC and BSC) that can fund the programs through tax-payer financing.

[Sandlapper Spike]

Alabama has 5 FBS programs and 3 FCS teams within their state university system. That's 8 division 1 athletic programs in a state that clearly can't afford to properly support all of them. Some of the fat needs to be trimmed imo.

South Carolina has twelve Division I programs, nine of which play football. North Carolina has eighteen D-1 programs, thirteen of which play football. I don't think the number of D-1 programs in the state is the key factor.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

If so, which schools from our subdivision will end their programs? xchinscratchx

URI might be the only one I could. Why not say screw it and try to be like VCU and Wichita State? It's already a basketball school with legit potential....

People will soon find out that football only drives the bus for the rich and powerful. For most, basketball is the best ROI....

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

South Carolina has twelve Division I programs, nine of which play football. North Carolina has eighteen D-1 programs, thirteen of which play football. I don't think the number of D-1 programs in the state is the key factor.

I think it matters when you're talking about public institutions and funding. Pennsylvania has a bunch of D1 programs as well but Lehigh, Bucknell, Drexel, Robert Morris have no barring on Penn State, Temple, IUP etc.

[saxbison]

PLEASE LET THAT HAPPEN...

PUH...LEESE!

Bring NMSU with you while your at it.

Then Missery State and Illinois State can take their happy asses elsewhere since they don't want to carry their own weight here.

Do you really realistically see that happening? I mean, it would be great for the league, but I really doubt member schools would allow not only one, but two large public institutions. I'm not an MVC scholar, but the only schools I could see them adding in the future would be a private school like Oral Roberts, or a low tier midwest public school like SIU-Edwardsville.

[clenz]

Do you really realistically see that happening? I mean, it would be great for the league, but I really doubt member schools would allow not only one, but two large public institutions. I'm not an MVC scholar, but the only schools I could see them adding in the future would be a private school like Oral Roberts, or a low tier midwest public school like SIU-Edwardsville.

SIU-E would never...ever happen.


They are public, but in UAB's case they are a non-football school now and have a strong history. That would carry some good weight. NMSU has a history with the MVC. They would be a march harder sell but WSU and UNI would be on board with it, so it might fly if wanted.

Any moves from now on will have WSU and UNI heavily talked too. Loyola really pissed off the WSU administration (and privately the UNI). They were a chicken **** add to keep Illinois State, Evansville, Indiana State, Drake and SIU happy so they didn't have to pay to travel to Belmont, ORU or Denver...yes, I'm serious.

Remember how much of a fit ISUr, ISUb and SIU through about having to go west when XDSUs and USD were added? Same thing happened with the MVC but they got the privates like Evansville and Bradley involved this time to carry MVC weight.

As I said before, if the MVC falls off it's because Illinois State, Evansville, Missouri State, and Bradley/Drake don't step their **** up...not because Creighton isn't here anymore. They've ridden off of WSU/Creighton/UNI coattails for far too long to talk about "the MVC sky is falling"

The are also why the MVC tournament won't leave St Louis for Kansas City. The "Oh no! We'd have to drive more than 3 hours to get to the tournament would bankrupt us and our fans won't go" attitude is going to drive WSU away at the first shot. If/when they do that they ****ed everyone in the conference. That will really piss UNI fans off because we just wanted those ****ers to step their games up and they didn't and that caused the two top national names to **** UNI over because the Illinois schools were bitches about it.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

In all honesty, football doesn't make a lot of economic sense for just about anyone not in the P5.

As Lehigh TU Owl pointed out, there are some non-P5 schools who still draw decently and are successful at the FBS (I think he overstates the MAC's success imo) but I wonder how long that remains as they become more marginalized every year?

The only schools/programs that probably make some sense at the FCS-level are the Ivy and Patriot League schools who have the $$$/tradition to absorb football losses year after year and the public universities (primarily in the CAA, MVFC and BSC) that can fund the programs through tax-payer financing.

The MAC's success is relative. They've created a solid "niche" that is very much unique. People, generally, look at MAC football in a favorable light. You also can't ignore the number of coaches the league has produced. Miami (OH) alone has a ridiculous legacy when it comes to coaches. Plus, there's been A LOT of really good NFL players that came from MAC schools. They also have had some success in basketball over the years. Wally Sczerbiak and Bonzi Wells were household names in the 90's. Antonio Gates had an Elite 8 run and Ohio has had success recently. It was a 2 bid league in 2013.

The MAC also has a strong alumni presence in "power" Midwestern cities. Having alumni in Indianapolis, Chicago, Detroit and Cleveland matter. Miami (Oh) is a tremendous academic institution. There's not a Miami (OH) in the SBC or CUSA. Even the Letterman-Ball State connection can't be ignored...

The MAC legitimately has a very unique identity. As a conference it's one of the most stable in the country imo. There most recent additions were Temple and Umass. Both are strong "universities" with a positive identity. Any up and comer would kill to be in the MAC. Ask JMU....

[Sader87]

Yeah, but let's face it.....most MAC crowds are undah 20K (many well undah), they play on Tuesday and Wednesday nights for TV. It's not exactly on the hearts and minds of most people in Ohio, Indiana and Michigan.

They would still have the "alumni network" in the Midwest playing FCS football that the Ivy and Patriot schools have in the Northeast.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Yeah, but let's face it.....most MAC crowds are undah 20K (many well undah), they play on Tuesday and Wednesday nights for TV. It's not exactly on the hearts and minds of most people in Ohio, Indiana and Michigan.

They would still have the "alumni network" in the Midwest playing FCS football that the Ivy and Patriot schools have in the Northeast.

There's no doubt the MAC has traded butts in the seats for eye-balls on TV. The MAC did draw better in the past when a lot of the better games were on Saturday. I still remember Game Day being at Bowling Green for their game against Northern Illinois several years ago. That was a BIG deal. Doyt was packed on that Saturday.

[clenz]

The MAC's success is relative. They've created a solid "niche" that is very much unique. People, generally, look at MAC football in a favorable light. You also can't ignore the number of coaches the league has produced. Miami (OH) alone has a ridiculous legacy when it comes to coaches. Plus, there's been A LOT of really good NFL players that came from MAC schools. They also have had some success in basketball over the years. Wally Sczerbiak and Bonzi Wells were household names in the 90's. Antonio Gates had an Elite 8 run and Ohio has had success recently. It was a 2 bid league in 2013.

The MAC also has a strong alumni presence in "power" Midwestern cities. Having alumni in Indianapolis, Chicago, Detroit and Cleveland matter. Miami (Oh) is a tremendous academic institution. There's not a Miami (OH) in the SBC or CUSA. Even the Letterman-Ball State connection can't be ignored...

The MAC legitimately has a very unique identity. As a conference it's one of the most stable in the country imo. There most recent additions were Temple and Umass. Both are strong "universities" with a positive identity. Any up and comer would kill to be in the MAC. Ask JMU....How much of that MAC allure is tied to them being tied to the B1G, so to speak.

They really aren't anything actually special, so to speak. Yes, the really are the B1G "lite" in many ways, but if forced to be with the SBC, CUSA, MVFC, CAA, Big Sky how quickly does that fade?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

In all honesty, football doesn't make a lot of economic sense for just about anyone not in the P5.

You are falling into the Silber trap that football needs to be a money-making enterprise to be worthwhile at a school. Silber made this idiotic economic argument at BU in his twenty-year effort to kill football that it needed to "make money". Now, somehow, it's been co-opted by the P5 that the purpose of their football programs is to "make money" and thus the other football programs that don't "make money" are somehow worthless.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

How much of that MAC allure is tied to them being tied to the B1G, so to speak.

They really aren't anything actually special, so to speak. Yes, the really are the B1G "lite" in many ways, but if forced to be with the SBC, CUSA, MVFC, CAA, Big Sky how quickly does that fade?

The ties to the Big 10 are huge. The schools have developed a good relationship over the years. The Big 10 has never really tried to hurt or suppress the MAC either. Their ability to co-exist has been a tremendous boost for the league.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The ties to the Big 10 are huge. The schools have developed a good relationship over the years. The Big 10 has never really tried to hurt or suppress the MAC either. Their ability to co-exist has been a tremendous boost for the league.

They know that the MAC will never be the Big 10. They're not in the same league - now, literally.

[clenz]

The ties to the Big 10 are huge. The schools have developed a good relationship over the years. The Big 10 has never really tried to hurt or suppress the MAC either. Their ability to co-exist has been a tremendous boost for the league.

Exactly.

So when those ties are cut what happens to the MAC?

They clearly can't/won't maintain where they are.

[Sader87]

You are falling into the Silber trap that football needs to be a money-making enterprise to be worthwhile at a school. Silber made this idiotic economic argument at BU in his twenty-year effort to kill football that it needed to "make money". Now, somehow, it's been co-opted by the P5 that the purpose of their football programs is to "make money" and thus the other football programs that don't "make money" are somehow worthless.

I'm really not but I can see how it would seep into people's mindset.

Holy Cross as a co-ed school of undah 3,000 students makes very little sense playing at the D1 level in football economically BUT it does have a very strong history of playing at that level, has an alumni-base that still want to play at that level and and has the economic resources to continue to play at that level.

Not too many other schools around the country can make that same argument.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Personally, in the past I have never known a lot or cared a lot about UAB football. But what is really disconcerting is that it truly seems to be a total political move. You can't say that UAB football in 2014 sucked, nor can you say that fans haven't turned out, nor can you say students don't care. If the plug is pulled on UAB football, it is truly the Alabama BOT taking a giant dump on the fans of Birmingham. It is 0% the will of the fans to see UAB football killed.

When football was killed at Hofstra and BU, the presidents were able to get away with it by starving the programs and then claiming that the "fans don't care." It is true that a certain percentage of BU and Hofstra students didn't care or don't care. But that's not the case at UAB.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Exactly.

So when those ties are cut what happens to the MAC?

They clearly can't/won't maintain where they are.

I don't see those ties being cut. In fact, most people believe that if the no FCS game ban comes to be the MAC will benefit. Northwestern, Purdue, Illinois, Penn State, Ohio State, Michigan etc. are not going to stop scheduling nearby MAC schools.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Personally, in the past I have never known a lot or cared a lot about UAB football. But what is really disconcerting is that it truly seems to be a total political move. You can't say that UAB football in 2014 sucked, nor can you say that fans haven't turned out, nor can you say students don't care. If the plug is pulled on UAB football, it is truly the Alabama BOT taking a giant dump on the fans of Birmingham. It is 0% the will of the fans to see UAB football killed.

When football was killed at Hofstra and BU, the presidents were able to get away with it by starving the programs and then claiming that the "fans don't care." It is true that a certain percentage of BU and Hofstra students didn't care or don't care. But that's not the case at UAB.

...and Birmingham use to be the epicenter for college football in Alabama, not Tuscaloosa or Auburn. I think UAB football was started originally to take advantage of that. Unfortunately, those in Birmingham never started caring for anyone but 'Bama and Auburn after those two "left".....

Legion Field was to Alabama football as the Palestra was to Philly hoops....

[clenz]

Axes can fall swiftly and suddenly, look at Hofstra and Northeastern. There are only a handful of schools in FCS that, if they announced they were canceling football tomorrow, I'd be stunned by. In a situation where schools are falling left and right, I can't see a world where lower end FBS schools, who generally have more students and have larger athletic budgets are decimated but their smaller FCS brethren skate by unharmed.

Who would those programs be?

This is what I came up with

Ivy and Patriot

Big Sky:
Montana
Montana State
EWU

Big South
CCU
Liberty

CAA (I honestly have no idea, so I guessed)
Delaware (changing on me)
JMU
UNH
Richmond
William and Mary

MVFC - honestly, only WIU and ISUb wouldn't shock me

OVC
Jax St
EIU?

SoCon
Chattanooga
The Citadel - military thing...just like why Army/Navy will never not be FBS...also yes, I realize VMI...

SLC - no idea

- - - Updated - - -


I don't see those ties being cut. In fact, most people believe that if the no FCS game ban comes to be the MAC will benefit. Northwestern, Purdue, Illinois, Penn State, Ohio State, Michigan etc. are not going to stop scheduling nearby MAC schools.

Depends what the split looks like, no?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Incidentally, the MAC has already stated that they are going to adopt the full cost of attendance the P5 want to implement. I don't know whether this will actually break their athletics department budgets or not, but they have at least said that they're going to play by the P5 rules.

C-USA did the exact same thing, something that hasn't been mentioned in this whole UAB thing.

[clenz]

Incidentally, the MAC has already stated that they are going to adopt the full cost of attendance the P5 want to implement. I don't know whether this will actually break their athletics department budgets or not, but they have at least said that they're going to play by the P5 rules.

C-USA did the exact same thing, something that hasn't been mentioned in this whole UAB thing.

How much more can the MAC schools really spend though?

Don't they already, on average, get about 60-70% of their budgets subsidized by students/tax money?

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

By split you mean what the MAC schools make per Big 10 game?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

How much more can the MAC schools really spend though?

Don't they already, on average, get about 60-70% of their budgets subsidized by students/tax money?

Agreed, and the point is well taken. But the leadership has said full steam ahead on FCOA.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

How much more can the MAC schools really spend though?

Don't they already, on average, get about 60-70% of their budgets subsidized by students/tax money?

There are schools in the MAC that have money and there's some that don't. I checked a few endowments and there's a wide disparity. CMU, who I thought had some loot (they have some excellent academic programs) has a $81 million dollar endowment. NIU's low number did not surprise me. It's a Chicago suitcase school. Ohio, Buffalo, Miami(Oh), Toledo have coin. Umass kind of does but they deal with a lot of in-state political BS.....

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

It is interesting to see the amount of power certain people and organizations have. UAB is simply located in the wrong state, associated with the wrong flagship institution. Then you have Youngstown State who's president is a former championship winning football coach. His ability to wield power in the state will assure YSU gets its fair shake as a FCS team...

[bonarae]

Personally, in the past I have never known a lot or cared a lot about UAB football. But what is really disconcerting is that it truly seems to be a total political move. You can't say that UAB football in 2014 sucked, nor can you say that fans haven't turned out, nor can you say students don't care. If the plug is pulled on UAB football, it is truly the Alabama BOT taking a giant dump on the fans of Birmingham. It is 0% the will of the fans to see UAB football killed.

When football was killed at Hofstra and BU, the presidents were able to get away with it by starving the programs and then claiming that the "fans don't care." It is true that a certain percentage of BU and Hofstra students didn't care or don't care. But that's not the case at UAB.

You remember the MAAC football schools that killed their programs in the late 1990's-early 2000's? That's probably the same boat... or in the same boat as BU/Hofstra? xcoffeex

EDIT - I am thinking now that the motivations of UAB football being pulled from contention is similar to the ones that took place at California State Universities throughout the 1990's. Of the many CSU's that used to have football in the 1980's, only two still play football today: Sacramento State and SJSU.

[Go...gate]

It would not surprise you if anyone in the Ivy or Patriot dropped football? I can't see anyone in either conference doing so, based on tradition alone, except for Columbia and/or Georgetown.

[Sitting Bull]

I'd be shocked if any team drops to FCS from FBS. What would the logic be? If administrators are eyeing football, they're not going to take half measures that yield minimal cost savings and also reduce visibility. They'll just cut the program.

I think that's correct in general. You lose a lot less money in FCS but when the problem festers to the point of UAB, never will the decision tilt toward losing less vs eliminating altogether.

Agree with Sader as well. This whole bottom end of FBS is a sham in terms of the rosy scenarios many of the consultants pander to these universities. And with ante just raised a few months ago by the major conferences, the cost to be even a punching bag, as in most of the lower end, will create quite a few more UABs.

The NCAA will eventually restructure all this and you will end up with the lower end of FBS and upper end of FCS combined. The only thing holding this back is basketball but you can already start to see the wheels spinning on that one as well.

[OL FU]

Who would those programs be?

This is what I came up with

Ivy and Patriot

Big Sky:
Montana
Montana State
EWU

Big South
CCU
Liberty

CAA (I honestly have no idea, so I guessed)
Delaware (changing on me)
JMU
UNH
Richmond
William and Mary

MVFC - honestly, only WIU and ISUb wouldn't shock me

OVC
Jax St
EIU?

SoCon
Chattanooga
The Citadel - military thing...just like why Army/Navy will never not be FBS...also yes, I realize VMI...

SLC - no idea

- - - Updated - - -



Depends what the split looks like, no?

I would be stunned if any SoCon teams, at this point, dropped football. Interestingly enough the least stunning would probably be VMI but I say that only because posters here have alluded to the some lack of interest among the largest donors. Five years ago, I would have said Chattanooga would have been the least surprising. So things do change. Two start ups aren't going to drop it. Furman just spend bundles of money upgrading facilities. Wofford ain't going anywhere as long as daddy Richardson keeps the money flowing.

I understand the sentiment of not being stunned if teams dropped football but in the SoCon that may be a prediction that is good in 20 years but not now (without some sort of unforeseen catastrophe).

Adding that College football is the religion of the south, just look at the number of teams who have made the very expensive decision to add football over the last twenty years in this region.

[Sitting Bull]

Personally, in the past I have never known a lot or cared a lot about UAB football. But what is really disconcerting is that it truly seems to be a total political move. You can't say that UAB football in 2014 sucked, nor can you say that fans haven't turned out, nor can you say students don't care. .

I think the actual stats would disagree with you there. Their problem is a lack of fans and support, not some demonic move from Tuscaloosa.

They rent out Legion Field - and aside from a couple games this year, they struggle to get 10-15,000 per game. That's fine on an FCS budget - but to keep draining money for an FBS program and expecting Alabama to subsidize you - that's asking a lot. It's been 15 years.

[Sitting Bull]

Who would those programs be?

This is what I came up with

Ivy and Patriot

Big Sky:
Montana
Montana State
EWU

Big South
CCU
Liberty

CAA (I honestly have no idea, so I guessed)
Delaware (changing on me)
JMU
UNH
Richmond
William and Mary

MVFC - honestly, only WIU and ISUb wouldn't shock me

OVC
Jax St
EIU?

SoCon
Chattanooga
The Citadel - military thing...just like why Army/Navy will never not be FBS...also yes, I realize VMI...

SLC - no idea

- - - Updated - - -



Depends what the split looks like, no?

Not quite sure what your point is here?

But I do agree that few in FCS would eliminate football at this point. They have found ways to keep costs in control and they understand the importance to the university. I think they also understand it's never been or meant to be a profit machine so some expense is expected.

They have been surprisingly been quite good the past few years in linking together TV contracts (CAA and NBCSN as one) and the conferences are built on geography, unlike most now in FBS, for far better cost control.

[Sitting Bull]

Yeah, but let's face it.....most MAC crowds are undah 20K (many well undah), they play on Tuesday and Wednesday nights for TV. It's not exactly on the hearts and minds of most people in Ohio, Indiana and Michigan.

They would still have the "alumni network" in the Midwest playing FCS football that the Ivy and Patriot schools have in the Northeast.

Once you hit mid October, most MAC crowds struggle to reach 10,000.

In my view, they are FBS in name only. They are a second tier, punching bag for the Big 10 and any thought they are on the same level and competing for the same divisional national title is just a joke.

100,000 this weekend in Columbus for OSU/Michigan. Meanwhile up the road in metro Cleveland, just over 5,000 for Akron/Kent. That's a poor crowd at FCS level.

[WestCoastAggie]

You remember the MAAC football schools that killed their programs in the late 1990's-early 2000's? That's probably the same boat... or in the same boat as BU/Hofstra? xcoffeex

EDIT - I am thinking now that the motivations of UAB football being pulled from contention is similar to the ones that took place at California State Universities throughout the 1990's. Of the many CSU's that used to have football in the 1980's, only two still play football today: Sacramento State and SJSU.

Cal Poly-SLO and Humbolt State still have their programs.

[bonarae]

Cal Poly-SLO and Humbolt State still have their programs.

Forgot about those 2 members of the CSU system. xoopsx Thanks for pointing these out.


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[Cocky]

UAB move has to be made now as Bear Bryant Jr. leaves the board in Jan because of age. He has had this in his sights since Bartow turned in UAT (and Bear Sr.) for recruiting violations.

[superman7515]

They rent out Legion Field - and aside from a couple games this year, they struggle to get 10-15,000 per game. That's fine on an FCS budget - but to keep draining money for an FBS program and expecting Alabama to subsidize you - that's asking a lot. It's been 15 years.

And why do they rent out Legion Field? Because the Alabama BOT refused to allow them to build an on campus stadium, despite the fact UAB already had the funding secured. As for exepecting Alabama to subsidize them, UAB brings in more money than Tuscaloosa and Huntsville combined; they subsidize Alabama.

[Danielr11220]

Forgot about those 2 members of the CSU system. xoopsx Thanks for pointing these out.


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What about Fresno State and San Diego State?

[bonarae]

What about Fresno State and San Diego State?

Oh, and those 2 FBS also. But from 30+ to just 6 over a 30-year span? There was a disturbing trend at that time...


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[Sitting Bull]

And why do they rent out Legion Field? Because the Alabama BOT refused to allow them to build an on campus stadium, despite the fact UAB already had the funding secured. As for exepecting Alabama to subsidize them, UAB brings in more money than Tuscaloosa and Huntsville combined; they subsidize Alabama.

Not for football, that's for sure.

It's one thing for the State to subsidize this if that's what they want, but to ask one University to subsidize the other's failed ambitions is ridiculous.

Besides, if UAB had any support or fan base at all, this wouldn't even be a discussion. Fact is, they don't - certainly not in the pretend world of the lower FBS.

People should stop blaming Tuscaloosa and point the blame at UAB for draining all this money on a charade football gamble.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

People should stop blaming Tuscaloosa and point the blame at UAB for draining all this money on a charade football gamble.

In order to be a member of C-USA UAB is required to sponsor a FBS football program, so it was less a gamble as it was a conference requirement.

If you look at the actions of the fans, papers, and social media the last few weeks, there has been a LOT of support for UAB keeping their football program. Furthermore, UAB alumni and boosters have a large, active money donor base that wants to keep it around.

Incidentally, UAB has never faced Alabama ever.

[uni88]

Once you hit mid October, most MAC crowds struggle to reach 10,000.

In my view, they are FBS in name only. They are a second tier, punching bag for the Big 10 and any thought they are on the same level and competing for the same divisional national title is just a joke.

100,000 this weekend in Columbus for OSU/Michigan. Meanwhile up the road in metro Cleveland, just over 5,000 for Akron/Kent. That's a poor crowd at FCS level.

I don't know about Indiana, Ohio or Michigan but in Illinois, NIU has as many fans as Northwestern and isn't that far behind the Univ of Illinois. They appear to have good relations with Northwestern, Iowa, Wisconsin, etc., schedule Big 10 teams for Soldier Field and are competitive in those games.

The MAC has no illusions of competing head-to-head with the Big10 but instead has a symbiotic relationship. They've found their niche and don't have illusions of grandeur. IMO, they're definitely ahead of CUSA and the Sunbelt and aren't that far behind the MW with the exception of Boise. The MW is a much better basketball conference.

[Sitting Bull]

In order to be a member of C-USA UAB is required to sponsor a FBS football program, so it was less a gamble as it was a conference requirement.

If you look at the actions of the fans, papers, and social media the last few weeks, there has been a LOT of support for UAB keeping their football program. Furthermore, UAB alumni and boosters have a large, active money donor base that wants to keep it around.

Incidentally, UAB has never faced Alabama ever.

Then I think it must have been too little, too late. Just look at their support over the 15 year period.

I just think placing the blame on U of Alabama is misplaced.

[blackbeard]

The UAB situation is a really tricky one. UAB started as an Extension Center of the University of Alabama back in the 1930's. It grew through the years and in 1969 there was a reorganization and consolidation with the campus gaining autonomy but under a single Board of Trustees for the U of A System. The Trustees also agreed to consolidate the U of A Medical School at the UAB campus as a part of the 1969 reorganization but still use the Tuscaloosa and Huntsville campuses for 3rd and 4th year programs in the school of medicine. Over the last 20 years the Medical School has grown in size and prominence - it is considered a top 20 Medical School in the country and is one of the Top 5 in the Nation among public universities. The Medical School is on the leading edge of research in many medical disciplines, attracting many top researchers in the world in some fields.

UAB is the largest employer in the Birmingham metro area and is the economic engine that drives downtown Birmingham. But most of this is related to the Medical School and all the spin offs from it. The University Hospital Complex and its many clinics, along with the Children's Hospital take up numerous city blocks on the Southside of the city. Today when physicians graduate from the UAB Med School their diploma reads "University of Alabama School of Medicine". The last UAB President took a lot of shots behind the scenes for her attempts to "re-brand" the Medical School as UAB - physician alumni groups applied a lot of pressure behind the scenes to have her removed. It was no surprise that the next (and current) UAB president came up through the ranks of the Medical School instead of having a background in undergraduate programs.

From the beginning it seems the plan was to have graduate level programs along with the medical school at Birmingham but always as an extension of the U of A. Obviously some undergradute programs were going to be a part of it and over time they grew. Eventually some in leadership decided adding sports programs would continue to attract more and more undergrad students, transforming the campus from a commuter one into more of a traditional college campus environment. As things have naturally grown through the years, you end up with what you have now, some dorms and campus life for undergrads, but nothing like what you see in Tuscaloosa or Auburn. I think the University has about 12k undergrads and about 7,500 undergrads, which includes about 750 Med School students.

The City of Birmingham is strongly backing UAB Football and wants to see it continue and thrive. UAB isn't going anywhere, the millions of square feet of hospitals and medical centers insures that. But it's probably reached a critical point of really needing to define what it's mission is and will be in the future. There is plenty of room for it to have a weak FBS football program. There is not a single kid on their roster that Alabama or Auburn will be ever saying "dang we wish we got that kid". There may be a few who sign scholarhsips at UAB that Alabama or Auburn say "dang I wish we could have gotten that kid to walk on". UAB is recruiting football players against Troy, South Alabama, Jax State and Samford - they will never be a threat to Alabama or Auburn.

I hate to see them cut the program because some good folks will lose some jobs. Also means cuts will probably come in other Athletic programs, they sponsor 6 mens teams but 11 womens teams. For example they have Women's track and Cross Country but not Men's. But they have a good argument for cutting it as the Athletic Dept and Football operate at significant deficits. Sure many programs around the country operate in the red, but those losses (costs) are deemed acceptable as part of an overall undergraduate college experience. I'm not sure that was ever part of the plan in Birmingham.

[dbackjon]

Troy might cock block that.

I see what you did there

[WestCoastAggie]

Forgot about those 2 members of the CSU system. xoopsx Thanks for pointing these out.


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You have a point about the Cal-State's dropping football though. Those schools that cut the sport were part of the Big West and in hindsight, losing those teams hurt the sport, imho.

Those teams could have joined Sac State and Cal Poly in moving to the FCS level, bringing Fresno And San Jose with them. This could have given the Big Sky a true conference rival that could've given us true regionalization for the playoffs.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

I don't know about Indiana, Ohio or Michigan but in Illinois, NIU has as many fans as Northwestern and isn't that far behind the Univ of Illinois. They appear to have good relations with Northwestern, Iowa, Wisconsin, etc., schedule Big 10 teams for Soldier Field and are competitive in those games.

The MAC has no illusions of competing head-to-head with the Big10 but instead has a symbiotic relationship. They've found their niche and don't have illusions of grandeur. IMO, they're definitely ahead of CUSA and the Sunbelt and aren't that far behind the MW with the exception of Boise. The MW is a much better basketball conference.

Well said....

Too crappy Ohio teams aren't going to draw flies on the same day as Ohio State-Michigan.

It's also easy to make the case that NIU is the best FBS program in Illinois over the last 10-15 years....

[dbackjon]

You remember the MAAC football schools that killed their programs in the late 1990's-early 2000's? That's probably the same boat... or in the same boat as BU/Hofstra? xcoffeex

EDIT - I am thinking now that the motivations of UAB football being pulled from contention is similar to the ones that took place at California State Universities throughout the 1990's. Of the many CSU's that used to have football in the 1980's, only two still play football today: Sacramento State and SJSU.

Fresno and San Diego State are CSU's as well.

[dbackjon]

I think the actual stats would disagree with you there. Their problem is a lack of fans and support, not some demonic move from Tuscaloosa.

They rent out Legion Field - and aside from a couple games this year, they struggle to get 10-15,000 per game. That's fine on an FCS budget - but to keep draining money for an FBS program and expecting Alabama to subsidize you - that's asking a lot. It's been 15 years.


They tried to get an On-Campus Stadium. Had funds lined up. Alabama board of trustees, led by the major asshole Paul Bryant, Jr (Bear's Son) blocked it.

Paul Bryant has made it his mission to kill UAB sports. He still is mad that former UAB basketball coach Gene Bartow called Bear Bryant out for cheating to win.

What is happening to UAB is a travesty. Alabama should be ashamed.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Fans want a football team, boosters want a football team, city wants a football team. But Alabama BOT does not because of politics, and Alabama BOT pays UAB president's salary.

Is there any legal recourse?

[clenz]

Probably have to have a paper trail from tuscaloosa showing collusion

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[FCS_pwns_FBS]

Exactly.

So when those ties are cut what happens to the MAC?

They clearly can't/won't maintain where they are.

The MAC is basically on the same plane as the CUSA and Sun Belt in pretty much every way other than academics.

People point out how they have had ranked teams but they usually get B1G teams on the non-conference schedule while the Sun Belt and CUSA teams are playing SEC and Big 12 opponents. That Kent State team that was ranked in 2012 was beat by Arkansas State.

It's not as hard for a G5 team to get ranked as some here think. Marshall made it in for a week this year without playing a single P5 team.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

How does the press really feel? xlolx

http://www.al.com/opinion/index.ssf/2014/12/if_uab_football_is_really_sunk.html

[blackbeard]

Lots of Birmingham press covering the activites: http://www.al.com/birmingham/#/0

[Dave195]

My personal hope is that JMU takes UAB's C-USA slot. I know ODU would really like to see JMU is the C-USA w/ them. I want JMU to leave the CAA so my MONMOUTH HAWKS can eventually take that spot. Got to finish up some financing for the new stadium first though. Thoughts?

[Danielr11220]

My personal hope is that JMU takes UAB's C-USA slot. I know ODU would really like to see JMU is the C-USA w/ them. I want JMU to leave the CAA so my MONMOUTH HAWKS can eventually take that spot. Got to finish up some financing for the new stadium first though. Thoughts?


Could Central Conn be able to take that spot over Monmouth?

[zilla]

My personal hope is that JMU takes UAB's C-USA slot. I know ODU would really like to see JMU is the C-USA w/ them. I want JMU to leave the CAA so my MONMOUTH HAWKS can eventually take that spot. Got to finish up some financing for the new stadium first though. Thoughts?

Would the CAA take another northern football program? Wouldn't a replacement for JMU come from the south (i.e., Coastal Carolina)? xthumbsupx

[superman7515]

The only answer is Chattanooga and more cowbell.

[Dave195]

No way. They're in the NEC and don't have their scholarship levels up. Would take years to make that leap. Also, would lose NEC membership for all other sports and have to go to AEC. Not happening.

[Dave195]

You heard it here first folks:

CAA North

Maine
New Hampshire
Albany
Rhode Island
Stony Brook
Monmouth

CAA South

Villanova
Delaware
Towson
Richmond
William & Mary
Elon

[DFW HOYA]

You heard it here first folks:

CAA North

Maine
New Hampshire
Albany
Rhode Island
Stony Brook
Monmouth

CAA South

Villanova
Delaware
Towson
Richmond
William & Mary
Elon

If that's the case, the Patriot has zero expansion/contingency candidates.

[superman7515]

You heard it here first folks:

CAA New Hampshire Invitational

Maine
New Hampshire
Albany
Rhode Island
Stony Brook
Monmouth

CAA South

Villanova
Delaware
Towson
Richmond
William & Mary
Elon

FTFY

[Herder]

You are completely overreacting to what mvc basketball is.

If the conference slips this year it's because teams like Illinois State, Indiana State, and Missouri State fail more than anything else.

The MVC is in your schools hands now, not WSU, UNI or even Creighton at this point.

Your choices are 1. step your game up to fill what Creighton left or 2. cry that the conference isnt good anymore because you refuse to step your damn game up and start to carry your own damn weight in this conference rather than riding WSU, UNI, or Creghton's dick for national respect

It's programs like ISUr, Missouri State, and Evansville (maybe ISUb, too) that scare programs like WSU, ONE and Creighton. Why? Because these programs have carried the weight on the conference for the longest time roght now, we look around and see schools like ISUr and MSUcrying but not doing their part to fix it…. Oh, also preventing the conference from looking at the truly best options because they don't want to pay for travel to any school outside of Illinois. That's why we are stuck with Loyola and not Belmont, ORU, Denver, etc…… you know, schools that would keep WSU interested.

The MVC has a top 10 ranked team right now and another (UNI) that is right on the very precipice of a top 25 rank.

Again, step YOUR game up and the MVC will not drop. It's only going to drop if YOU let it. But thats what ISUr and MSU are doing. They'd rather cry than fix it

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

Says the UNI guy talking out of both sides of his mouth. UNI would have preferred not to involved the Dakota schools in football, even though they knew it would lift the conference. Now UNI criticizes MO State and others for keeping Denver and ORU out, while they do the same thing to NDSU & SDSU. Seems like the MVC would prefer to be average, and UNI is a significant reason for that also. Watch the MVC vs. Summit rankings the next 5 years. Game on.

[Sitting Bull]

Fans want a football team, boosters want a football team, city wants a football team. But Alabama BOT does not because of politics, and Alabama BOT pays UAB president's salary.

Is there any legal recourse?

If all you are saying is true, why didn't they support the program the last 14 years?

Seriously, they have been drawing 6,000 to 15,000 per game.

Now they supposedly have all this support. It doesn't add up.

It is disappointing when someone has to drop a program like this but to blame it on someone or something else is just an excuse.

[Dave195]

If that's the case, the Patriot has zero expansion/contingency candidates.

The Patriot League is the other conference Monmouth could look at besides the CAA, I just see the CAA as a better fit. Esp in terms of past rivalries.

[UNH Fanboi]

If that's the case, the Patriot has zero expansion/contingency candidates.

I can't believe that the thread has gone this long without a mention of PL expansion. LFN is slipping. Or maybe he's writing an article on it as we speak.

[Dave195]

If all you are saying is true, why didn't they support the program the last 14 years?

Seriously, they have been drawing 6,000 to 15,000 per game.

Now they supposedly have all this support. It doesn't add up.

It is disappointing when someone has to drop a program like this but to blame it on someone or something else is just an excuse.

This is off-topic but I really like the renderings for the Zable Stadium renovations

[Dane96]

No way. They're in the NEC and don't have their scholarship levels up. Would take years to make that leap. Also, would lose NEC membership for all other sports and have to go to AEC. Not happening.

Albany was in the NEC, and had less rides than CCSU does now, when we made the jump.

And unless the size-minimum has changed, something I doubt, Monmouth will need to get to 7500 seats, minimum.

I for one, would welcome Monmouth.

[Dave195]

Albany was in the NEC, and had less rides than CCSU does now, when we made the jump.

And unless the size-minimum has changed, something I doubt, Monmouth will need to get to 7500 seats, minimum.

I for one, would welcome Monmouth.

Outside of JMU getting the C-USA bid, the stadium issue is my biggest worry. @MonmouthStadium was supposed to be built this off-season and I've heard nothing new about it. Also, purely speculation on my part... but if they took their current stands and moved them to the other side of the field, they'd easily have 8-9k.

Have you heard anything recently on Albany & SB becoming full CAA members? Surprised that hasn't happened yet.

[Sitting Bull]

This is off-topic but I really like the renderings for the Zable Stadium renovations

Thanks, and we aren't asking UVA or taxpayers to foot the bill, it is being paid for by W&M boosters.

BTW, I think a presence in NJ would be good for the CAA - just not sure Monmouth is ready yet. You need a stadium.

I think Coastal Carolina would also be a contender - possibly Liberty.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

You heard it here first folks:

America East Football

Maine
New Hampshire
Albany
Rhode Island
Stony Brook
Monmouth

CAA

Villanova
Delaware
Towson
Richmond
William & Mary
Elon

FIFY. Not an academic argument since there would be zero full CAA members in the "north".

[BlackNGoldR3v0lut10n]

South Carolina has twelve Division I programs, nine of which play football. North Carolina has eighteen D-1 programs, thirteen of which play football. I don't think the number of D-1 programs in the state is the key factor.

Take Tennessee for example. We have (in order of importance):
Tennessee-Knoxville (SEC)
Vanderbilt (SEC)*
Memphis (American)
Middle Tennessee State (CUSA)
Chattanooga (SoCon)
Tennessee Tech (OVC)
Tennessee State (OVC)
Tennessee-Martin (OVC)
Austin Peay (OVC)
East Tennessee State (SoCon, coming back in 2015)
Belmont (OVC)*+
Lipscomb (Atlantic Sun)*+
* private
+ no football

We have 4 D1 FBS programs, 6 (when ETSU comes back next year) D1 FCS programs and two D1 non-football programs in TN.

This is shameful what "Big Brother" (Alabama) is doing to UAB. This is a few months away from UAB playing Big Brother Tennessee @ LP Field for $925K. The contract calls for UAB to fork over another $925K to UTK if the game is not played as a result of UAB dropping football. Do the math, that's almost a two million dollar hit. We're talking Paul Stanton/Dave Mullins dumb. Really, really dumb. For real.

https://tennessee.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1710446

If I was Butch Jones and if UAB does drop their football program, I have Tennessee dress in UAB uniforms when they head down to Bryant-Denny next year.

[Dave195]

Thanks, and we aren't asking UVA or taxpayers to foot the bill, it is being paid for by W&M boosters.

BTW, I think a presence in NJ would be good for the CAA - just not sure Monmouth is ready yet. You need a stadium.

I think Coastal Carolina would also be a contender - possibly Liberty.

This... http://www.monmouthhawks.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=14300&ATCLID=209388178 was supposed to be built this off-season. Would be a nice start. No idea what the status is currently.

[PantherRob82]

Says the UNI guy talking out of both sides of his mouth. UNI would have preferred not to involved the Dakota schools in football, even though they knew it would lift the conference. Now UNI criticizes MO State and others for keeping Denver and ORU out, while they do the same thing to NDSU & SDSU. Seems like the MVC would prefer to be average, and UNI is a significant reason for that also. Watch the MVC vs. Summit rankings the next 5 years. Game on.

#1- You realize UNI posters don't have any pull at conference meetings, right? xrolleyesx
#2- When did anyone say we didn't want the Dakotas in football? I think our fan base in general wanted them.
#3- Where did he say Mo State kept out Denver and ORU? I think he's clearly accusing the Illinois schools of wanting to state in state with Loyola.
#4- The Summit will not touch the MVC in rankings if all teams stay as is.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

If UAB drops football and is forced to relocate, who takes them? UAB has a very good hoops program that someone would love to have, but they're nowhere near the footprint or profile of the Big East or even the A-10. Would the Sun Belt or AAC change the rules to bring in a non-football team in? The A-Sun? All three have the footprint but not much else.

[REALBird]

#1- You realize UNI posters don't have any pull at conference meetings, right? xrolleyesx
#2- When did anyone say we didn't want the Dakotas in football? I think our fan base in general wanted them.
#3- Where did he say Mo State kept out Denver and ORU? I think he's clearly accusing the Illinois schools of wanting to state in state with Loyola.
#4- The Summit will not touch the MVC in rankings if all teams stay as is.

Also, are you SURE about the Illinois schools? My understanding was the most vocal opposition came from Southern Illinois, Indiana State and Youngstown about travel. We've played USD every year for the past 4 years, even played them as a non-conference game the first of those 4 years. I wasn't crazy about Loyola, still not sold on them.

[Jason Svoboda]

If you would have read the Indiana State boards, quite a few of us would prefer to drop non-football schools and form a unified conference. Some of the old guard that don't embrace our football program didn't like that though. The athletics department liked Loyola best due to lowest travel costs.

Make no mistake, it didn't really matter what anyone wanted. The conference itself wanted the Chicago market.

[Laker]

Is there supposed to be an official announcement this week? Why wouldn't they wait until the bowl bids came out? Is the administration worried that they might get invited?

[SU DOG]

The UAB situation is a really tricky one. UAB started as an Extension Center of the University of Alabama back in the 1930's. It grew through the years and in 1969 there was a reorganization and consolidation with the campus gaining autonomy but under a single Board of Trustees for the U of A System. The Trustees also agreed to consolidate the U of A Medical School at the UAB campus as a part of the 1969 reorganization but still use the Tuscaloosa and Huntsville campuses for 3rd and 4th year programs in the school of medicine. Over the last 20 years the Medical School has grown in size and prominence - it is considered a top 20 Medical School in the country and is one of the Top 5 in the Nation among public universities. The Medical School is on the leading edge of research in many medical disciplines, attracting many top researchers in the world in some fields.

UAB is the largest employer in the Birmingham metro area and is the economic engine that drives downtown Birmingham. But most of this is related to the Medical School and all the spin offs from it. The University Hospital Complex and its many clinics, along with the Children's Hospital take up numerous city blocks on the Southside of the city. Today when physicians graduate from the UAB Med School their diploma reads "University of Alabama School of Medicine". The last UAB President took a lot of shots behind the scenes for her attempts to "re-brand" the Medical School as UAB - physician alumni groups applied a lot of pressure behind the scenes to have her removed. It was no surprise that the next (and current) UAB president came up through the ranks of the Medical School instead of having a background in undergraduate programs.

From the beginning it seems the plan was to have graduate level programs along with the medical school at Birmingham but always as an extension of the U of A. Obviously some undergradute programs were going to be a part of it and over time they grew. Eventually some in leadership decided adding sports programs would continue to attract more and more undergrad students, transforming the campus from a commuter one into more of a traditional college campus environment. As things have naturally grown through the years, you end up with what you have now, some dorms and campus life for undergrads, but nothing like what you see in Tuscaloosa or Auburn. I think the University has about 12k undergrads and about 7,500 undergrads, which includes about 750 Med School students.

The City of Birmingham is strongly backing UAB Football and wants to see it continue and thrive. UAB isn't going anywhere, the millions of square feet of hospitals and medical centers insures that. But it's probably reached a critical point of really needing to define what it's mission is and will be in the future. There is plenty of room for it to have a weak FBS football program. There is not a single kid on their roster that Alabama or Auburn will be ever saying "dang we wish we got that kid". There may be a few who sign scholarhsips at UAB that Alabama or Auburn say "dang I wish we could have gotten that kid to walk on". UAB is recruiting football players against Troy, South Alabama, Jax State and Samford - they will never be a threat to Alabama or Auburn.

I hate to see them cut the program because some good folks will lose some jobs. Also means cuts will probably come in other Athletic programs, they sponsor 6 mens teams but 11 womens teams. For example they have Women's track and Cross Country but not Men's. But they have a good argument for cutting it as the Athletic Dept and Football operate at significant deficits. Sure many programs around the country operate in the red, but those losses (costs) are deemed acceptable as part of an overall undergraduate college experience. I'm not sure that was ever part of the plan in Birmingham.

^^ This^^ is very good information about the situation. I have NO inside source, but the current talk is that UAB will be dropping much of their undergrad program. Football is just the tip of the iceberg, and I'm afraid that the entire athletics structure will be dismantled in some way. If this happens, it isn't a matter of what conference affilitation, but much more far reaching. And again, Bama and PBB Jr. do not want to see success at UAB.

BTW, the Bama bunch are such elitist that they have a rule - NO instate teams, outside of Auburn will be scheduled in football. That means even FCS squads like Samford and JSU will not get a payday from Tuscaloosa. That is good for schools like WCU and UTC, but for us and JSU, it is - Thank Goodness for Auburn.

[clenz]

Says the UNI guy talking out of both sides of his mouth. UNI would have preferred not to involved the Dakota schools in football, even though they knew it would lift the conference. Now UNI criticizes MO State and others for keeping Denver and ORU out, while they do the same thing to NDSU & SDSU. Seems like the MVC would prefer to be average, and UNI is a significant reason for that also. Watch the MVC vs. Summit rankings the next 5 years. Game on.
1. UNI voted to add both XDSU's for football and embraced them. Keep in mind UNI has played SDSU in football pre move and have played them in basketball. The issue with the XDSU's is MVC and not fitting what the MVC wants. Two very...very...different topics. UNI voted to add the XDSU's to the Gateway. Also, good luck trying to pin anything me saying I didn't want them - my username doesn't date back that far. While I did have another one I didn't comment on the additions.

2. I never once said MSU kept the MVC from going all in on Denver, ORU, Belmont, etc... Those schools had "issues" of their own to overcome. That was entirely based on the Illinois and Indiana schools.

3. Missouri State got brought into it because they (along with Illinois State) are the two public schools that cry the most about how the basketball conference is doomed now that Creighton left and was replaced with Loyola (who has good upside, it's if it can be reached that's the issue). MSU loves to cry about how the "MVC has never done them any favors" because they've never gotten an NCAA bid - even though they were f-ed out of a couple at-larges. They blame the MVC for that...apparently. Since their last snub though they've had 1 good season and have an average finish of something like 5th in the conference. Illinois State fans are crying now. The last time Illinois State made the NCAA tournament was 1998....but yeah, Creighton leaving is their issue. It's Creighton's, and the MVC's fault, that the rest of the conference didn't step up and maintain success (other than WSU or UNI) post 2006. The MVC will fall if the other schools don't do anything to keep that from happening.

4. The proper add would have been Denver (though they didn't want to commit to other MVC sanctioned sports) Belmont or ORU.

5. The MVC has 2 top 25 teams right now. UNI and WSU aren't going to fall off. If 1...I mean just 1 more team (ISUr, Evansville, anyone) steps up and maintains success the Summit won't touch the MVC in RPI.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Also Tuesday, Alabama state Rep. Jack Williams, a UAB supporter, announced his plan to submit a constitutional amendment that would change the makeup of the Alabama board. Under Williams’ proposal, the board would increase from 17 to 27 members by adding mayors from Huntsville, Birmingham and Tuscaloosa; leaders from counties in Alabama; selections by the system’s three alumni groups; and one pick each by the speaker of the house and president of the senate.

http://mweb.cbssports.com/ncaaf/writer/jon-solomon/24839675/uab-football-isnt-alone-in-losing-money-for-athletic-departments?v=1&vc=1

Thought that was interesting. The recourse appears to be the state legislature and a constitutional amendment.

[aceinthehole]

No way. They're in the NEC and don't have their scholarship levels up. Would take years to make that leap. Also, would lose NEC membership for all other sports and have to go to AEC. Not happening.

CCSU funds 40 schollys today, and is very close to 57+ equivs (rumor has it FBS teams will be on the schedule in 2017 and beyond).

It can be done easily if they get the invite for CAA Football/America East.

[Sitting Bull]

Great, since the "market" system didn't work for UAB football, maybe the government will fix this.

Maybe in the true spirit of justice today, they can force 10,000 Alabama fans to attend every UAB football game. Or you have to buy UAB season tickets if you are going to buy Crimson Tide tickets. I'm sure some young attorney is working on this..

[PantherRob82]

Also, are you SURE about the Illinois schools? My understanding was the most vocal opposition came from Southern Illinois, Indiana State and Youngstown about travel. We've played USD every year for the past 4 years, even played them as a non-conference game the first of those 4 years. I wasn't crazy about Loyola, still not sold on them.

I think Indiana State and Evansville could have also wanted Loyola more than heading west. Youngstown has nothing to do with basketball.

[aceinthehole]

Albany was in the NEC, and had less rides than CCSU does now, when we made the jump.

And unless the size-minimum has changed, something I doubt, Monmouth will need to get to 7500 seats, minimum.

Exactly. CCSU's facility is already larger than what is planned for Monmouth and has the ability to expand easily (if funded).

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Great, since the "market" system didn't work for UAB football, maybe the government will fix this.

Maybe in the true spirit of justice today, they can force 10,000 Alabama fans to attend every UAB football game. Or you have to buy UAB season tickets if you are going to buy Crimson Tide tickets. I'm sure some young attorney is working on this..

The "market" is currently saying that they want UAB football. The changing of the composition of the BOT is simply attempting to have its composition better reflect the interests of the state.

[Sitting Bull]

The "market" is currently saying that they want UAB football. The changing of the composition of the BOT is simply attempting to have its composition better reflect the interests of the state.

I have no idea what you are looking at but this is just so totally opposite the facts. They led the nation of G5 teams according to CBS losing $25M this past year.

We already know the attendance numbers, ticket sales. They outright stink.

Where exactly are you supporting this "market" support for UAB football? It hasn't come from ticket sales over a 15 year period.

The one article I saw discussed a student protest that "swelled to a 100 people" on campus. You get more people to a biology class than that.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I have no idea what you are looking at but this is just so totally opposite the facts. They led the nation of G5 teams according to CBS losing $25M this past year.

We already know the attendance numbers, ticket sales. They outright stink.

Where exactly are you supporting this "market" support for UAB football? It hasn't come from ticket sales over a 15 year period.

The one article I saw discussed a student protest that "swelled to a 100 people" on campus. You get more people to a biology class than that.

http://imgick.al.com/home/bama-media/pgmain/img/alphotos/photo/2014/12/01/-f1075f7c42841b5c.JPG

http://imgick.al.com/home/bama-media/pgmain/img/alphotos/photo/2014/12/01/-48c2839cde8a933a.JPG

More than 100 people.

[Danielr11220]

CCSU funds 40 schollys today, and is very close to 57+ equivs (rumor has it FBS teams will be on the schedule in 2017 and beyond).

It can be done easily if they get the invite for CAA Football/America East.

UCONN-CCSU in East Hartford?

[Sitting Bull]

http://imgick.al.com/home/bama-media/pgmain/img/alphotos/photo/2014/12/01/-f1075f7c42841b5c.JPG

http://imgick.al.com/home/bama-media/pgmain/img/alphotos/photo/2014/12/01/-48c2839cde8a933a.JPG

More than 100 people.

Oh, please. If that's your "market" support argument, case closed.

BTW, cant say they look all that upset.

Show me a picture where they were at a game in stadium full of people, then maybe you would have something.

I would post a pic if I knew how of their empty stadium during a game, there's plenty of those. That was the problem.

[superman7515]

You heard it here first folks:

CAA North

Maine
New Hampshire
Albany
Rhode Island
Stony Brook
Monmouth

CAA South

Villanova
Delaware
Towson
Richmond
William & Mary
Elon

How are the mighty fallen in the midst of battle! Jonathan is slain on your high places...

From turning down Charlotte and asking the NCAA if we could all move to FBS together as one conference, to debating whether Central Connecticut or Monmouth would be the better fit...

O Holy Patroness of those in need, St. Rita, whose pleadings before thy Divine Lord are almost irresistible, who for thy lavishness in granting favors hast been called the Advocate of the Hopeless and even of the Impossible, much as our CAA is today; St. Rita, so humble, so pure, so mortified, so patient and of such compassionate love for thy Crucified Jesus that thou couldst obtain from Him whatsoever thou askest, except a competent defensive coordinator at the University of Delaware, on account of which all confidently have recourse to thee expecting, if not always relief, at least comfort; be propitious to our petition, showing thy power with God on behalf of thy suppliant; be lavish to us, as thou hast been in so many wonderful cases, like those rat bastards at Villanova, for the greater glory of God, for the spreading of thine own devotion, and for the consolation of those who trust in thee. Look down and save our CAA!


Hail Marinara,
Full of Spice,
The Flying Spaghetti Monster is filled with thee.
Tasty art thou amongst sauces,
And blessed is the fruit
Of thy jar, tomatoes
(although fools believe they are vegetables).
Holy Marinara,
Chief Amongst Toppings,
Save our Colonial conference now,
And at about 6 o’clock when dinner is served, if you would be so kind.
RAmen.


Yahweh, we implore you, by the great power of Your right hand, release the CAA.
Accept the prayer of Your people; strengthen us, purify us, Awesome One.
Mighty One, we beseech You, guard as the apple of the eye those who seek Your end zones.
Bless them, cleanse them; bestow upon them forever Your merciful righteousness.
Powerful, Holy One, in Your abounding goodness, guide Your congregation away from Eric Ziady.
Only and Exalted One, turn to Your people who are mindful of Your holiness.
Accept our supplication and hear our cry, as those in Newark are unable to, You Who knows secret thoughts.
Blessed be the name of the glory of His kingdom, Delaware Stadium, forever and ever.

[walliver]

The only answer is Chattanooga and more cowbell.

I suspect Chattanooga to CUSA is more likely than Chattanooga to the CAA.

The SunBelt would take Chatty in a heartbeat, although to be honest they would take just about any team not named Liberty.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

The MAC is basically on the same plane as the CUSA and Sun Belt in pretty much every way other than academics.

People point out how they have had ranked teams but they usually get B1G teams on the non-conference schedule while the Sun Belt and CUSA teams are playing SEC and Big 12 opponents. That Kent State team that was ranked in 2012 was beat by Arkansas State.

It's not as hard for a G5 team to get ranked as some here think. Marshall made it in for a week this year without playing a single P5 team.

The MAC has produced some pretty darn good teams. The NIU team that went undefeated was a legitimately good FBS team. They hung with FSU for 3 quarters before fading in the 4th. Likewise with Rothlisberger's Miami team. They went 13-1 and out scored their opposition 602-272. The MAC had a 5-7 year run from the late 90's with Toledo/Chester Taylor and Marshall/Leftwich until the mid 2000's where they were gaining national attention. NIU had Michael "Burner" Turner at that time who was making waves. Garrett Wolfe came along after that. BGSU had Urban Meyer in '02-'03 and was fringe Top 25. Game Day was there in 2003 for the NIU contest.

On the flip-side the MAC has had some ugly seasons. NDSU hammered CMU when the Chips won the MAC title. That was Dan LeFevour's FR year. The Turner Gill Buffalo team wasn't very good either....

[REALBird]

1. UNI voted to add both XDSU's for football and embraced them. Keep in mind UNI has played SDSU in football pre move and have played them in basketball. The issue with the XDSU's is MVC and not fitting what the MVC wants. Two very...very...different topics. UNI voted to add the XDSU's to the Gateway. Also, good luck trying to pin anything me saying I didn't want them - my username doesn't date back that far. While I did have another one I didn't comment on the additions.

2. I never once said MSU kept the MVC from going all in on Denver, ORU, Belmont, etc... Those schools had "issues" of their own to overcome. That was entirely based on the Illinois and Indiana schools.

3. Missouri State got brought into it because they (along with Illinois State) are the two public schools that cry the most about how the basketball conference is doomed now that Creighton left and was replaced with Loyola (who has good upside, it's if it can be reached that's the issue). MSU loves to cry about how the "MVC has never done them any favors" because they've never gotten an NCAA bid - even though they were f-ed out of a couple at-larges. They blame the MVC for that...apparently. Since their last snub though they've had 1 good season and have an average finish of something like 5th in the conference. Illinois State fans are crying now. The last time Illinois State made the NCAA tournament was 1998....but yeah, Creighton leaving is their issue. It's Creighton's, and the MVC's fault, that the rest of the conference didn't step up and maintain success (other than WSU or UNI) post 2006. The MVC will fall if the other schools don't do anything to keep that from happening.

4. The proper add would have been Denver (though they didn't want to commit to other MVC sanctioned sports) Belmont or ORU.

5. The MVC has 2 top 25 teams right now. UNI and WSU aren't going to fall off. If 1...I mean just 1 more team (ISUr, Evansville, anyone) steps up and maintains success the Summit won't touch the MVC in RPI.

Outside of message board chatter, give me something SOLID which shows the voting block of schools who wanted or didn't want the XDSU's.

Also, for basketball. You sound like a guy who apparently has some insider knowledge on Illinois State. Curious to who your source is for all this "crying" that's taking place.

I know our fans cry wolf quite a bit, but don't most fanbases? Waiting.........

[PantherRob82]

I know our fans cry wolf quite a bit, but don't most fanbases? Waiting.........

This whole conversation is about fans on message boards. Fans complaining, fans not wanting other schools. That stuff isn't just waived around in public by ADs.

[Cocky]

Oh, please. If that's your "market" support argument, case closed.

BTW, cant say they look all that upset.

Show me a picture where they were at a game in stadium full of people, then maybe you would have something.

I would post a pic if I knew how of their empty stadium during a game, there's plenty of those. That was the problem.
If it's all about money why isn't the BOT shutting down UAT basketball, track, all girls sports except gymnastics?

[ace93]

If it's all about money why isn't the BOT shutting down UAT basketball, track, all girls sports except gymnastics?

Because they want to remain Division 1. Maybe once the P5 make their own rules they won't need those other sports.

[centennial]

This is all about money. The extra money is going to be funneled into Alabama athletics. The board is basically taking money from 3 colleges that they oversee and giving it to one. I wonder if UAB can sue the board for not being a fair representation of its members? The problem is Alabama has so much clout that no one will be willing to go against them.

[Dave195]

CCSU funds 40 schollys today, and is very close to 57+ equivs (rumor has it FBS teams will be on the schedule in 2017 and beyond).

It can be done easily if they get the invite for CAA Football/America East.

Monmouth has FBS teams on schedule next 2 years and is already at/above 57

[REALBird]

This whole conversation is about fans on message boards. Fans complaining, fans not wanting other schools. That stuff isn't just waived around in public by ADs.
http://m.pantagraph.com/sports/gateway-considering-expansion/article_a9acf0c1-f7ec-5589-aaee-5d8687007ed3.html

"Zenger said North Dakota State and South Dakota State would be great additions to the Gateway...."
That was our AD going on record about the addition of the xDSU's.

[PantherRob82]

http://m.pantagraph.com/sports/gateway-considering-expansion/article_a9acf0c1-f7ec-5589-aaee-5d8687007ed3.html

"Zenger said North Dakota State and South Dakota State would be great additions to the Gateway...."
That was our AD going on record about the addition of the xDSU's.

Ok, now find ADs complaining about the quality of the MVC being down....xlolx

[REALBird]

Ok, now find ADs complaining about the quality of the MVC being down....xlolx

Cant find that, but seems that your AD and Coach at the time had some mixed emotions on adding the xDSU's.

http://m.qctimes.com/sports/gateway-dakota-schools-share-mutual-interest/article_f5b6629f-a5f6-5168-93a6-288a2ff22b24.html

But we're all in a better place now. xcoffeex

[PantherRob82]

Cant find that, but seems that your AD and Coach at the time had some mixed emotions on adding the xDSU's.

http://m.qctimes.com/sports/gateway-dakota-schools-share-mutual-interest/article_f5b6629f-a5f6-5168-93a6-288a2ff22b24.html

But we're all in a better place now. xcoffeex

That doesn't change what clenz was talking about. You started arguing something completely different and then don't understand why we are talking about something different than you.

[bonarae]

If it's all about money why isn't the BOT shutting down UAT basketball, track, all girls sports except gymnastics?

Exactly. Northeastern Illinois and/or BYU Hawaii?


Because they want to remain Division 1. Maybe once the P5 make their own rules they won't need those other sports.

But the P5 is for football only?


This is all about money. The extra money is going to be funneled into Alabama athletics. The board is basically taking money from 3 colleges that they oversee and giving it to one. I wonder if UAB can sue the board for not being a fair representation of its members? The problem is Alabama has so much clout that no one will be willing to go against them.

Unfortunately, that is true. xsmhx


I have no idea what you are looking at but this is just so totally opposite the facts. They led the nation of G5 teams according to CBS losing $25M this past year.

We already know the attendance numbers, ticket sales. They outright stink.

Where exactly are you supporting this "market" support for UAB football? It hasn't come from ticket sales over a 15 year period.

The one article I saw discussed a student protest that "swelled to a 100 people" on campus. You get more people to a biology class than that.

Hmm, did you even remember when BU, Hofstra, Pacific, etc dropped football? Did students really protest?

[clenz]

That doesn't change what clenz was talking about. You started arguing something completely different and then don't understand why we are talking about something different than you.
Let him go, rob. Let him go.

Notice I stopped responding? Yeah. He struck me as a griff so I bowed out

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

[dgtw]

Give college students a reason to skip class on a warm day right after a holiday break and they'll jump at it. I wonder how many of them ever attend games.

If UAB drops football, they will have issues staying in DI. The NCAA requires DI members to sponsor at least six men's and eight women's sports.

Without football, the men will be left with:
Basketball
Baseball
Soccer
Golf
Tennis

The women have:
Basketball
Softball
Soccer
Golf
Tennis
Volleyball
Sand volleyball
Indoor track
Outdoor track
Cross country
Bowling
Rifle

I guess they could start a men's track program if they wanted to stay DI. Really not much they can add and have short travel for meets.

I don't know if C-USA would take Chatty since they don't sponsor baseball, though I think UTEP doesn't have a team.

[Sader87]

Volleyball and sand volleyball? Bowling? Rifle? What a joke of an athletic program. xdrunkyx

[bonarae]

Volleyball and sand volleyball? Bowling? Rifle? What a joke of an athletic program. xdrunkyx

You've never heard of these collegiate sports before? xconfusedx

At least Vanderbilt fields a competitive women's bowling program; sand volleyball I'm not so sure who's famous there.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

You've never heard of these collegiate sports before? xconfusedx

At least Vanderbilt fields a competitive women's bowling program; sand volleyball I'm not so sure who's famous there.

I've seen the female sand volleyball on one of the channels before. Not a bad watch...xnodx

I've also seen collegiate arm wrestling on ESPNU....xrotatehx

[Herder]

#1- You realize UNI posters don't have any pull at conference meetings, right? xrolleyesx
#2- When did anyone say we didn't want the Dakotas in football? I think our fan base in general wanted them.
#3- Where did he say Mo State kept out Denver and ORU? I think he's clearly accusing the Illinois schools of wanting to state in state with Loyola.
#4- The Summit will not touch the MVC in rankings if all teams stay as is.

The Mvc has Wichita, other than that the Summit vs Mvc was pretty equal in 2014, and that was pre-oRU. If Wichita sticks around, advantage Mvc, otherwise equal. 1/2 of the Summit has new arena opening by 2016, and the Conf championship in the 12000 seat Sanford Premier Center. The profile is on the rise.

[Go...gate]

Monmouth has FBS teams on schedule next 2 years and is already at/above 57

I still think Monmouth may end up in the Patriot League for football.

[Go...gate]

If that's the case, the Patriot has zero expansion/contingency candidates.

Except Marist, which, despite their previous reluctance, might be worth broaching the subject with again.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

The Mvc has Wichita, other than that the Summit vs Mvc was pretty equal in 2014, and that was pre-oRU. If Wichita sticks around, advantage Mvc, otherwise equal. 1/2 of the Summit has new arena opening by 2016, and the Conf championship in the 12000 seat Sanford Premier Center. The profile is on the rise.

I don't think the Summit is close to approaching the MVC, even with improved facilities. The MVC is about 7-8 deep with programs that can be relevant nationally. The Shockers performances speak for themselves, UNI is a legit program and SIU has had some good teams. Then there's Indiana State who's had has success recently and always gets free publicity due to Bird, Drake was ranked in the Top 15 late in the year in 2008 and Bradley was a national power back in the day. They're the La Salle of the Midwest. The Braves even had Hawkins when La Salle has Lionel Simmons....

The MVC also has Arch Madness. That is a HUGE deal in the world of college hoops. I've met numerous hoops fans that say it's a legit "bucket list" event for a bball junkie. Granted, this was when Creighton was still in the league...

I'm not hating on the Summit but it's not even close to being on the MVC's level. The MVC is already filled with nice facilities and well paid coaches. The Summit should first try to be better than the Horizon. Valpo, Detroit, Green Bay and Wright State are solid programs right now. Cleveland State, Oakland and UW-Milwaukee have all been good at some point recently too...

[superman7515]

Volleyball and sand volleyball? Bowling? Rifle? What a joke of an athletic program. xdrunkyx

I was on the rifle team, the only pain was it took place as the same time as wrestling, so I had two practices a day. Try it sometime, not as easy as you think.

[DFW HOYA]

Fact-checking UAB's financial issues:

http://www.al.com/opinion/index.ssf/2014/12/how_broke_is_uabs_athletics_de.html

[REALBird]

That doesn't change what clenz was talking about. You started arguing something completely different and then don't understand why we are talking about something different than you.
Clenz originally made a comment about schools not wanting the Dakotas in the then Gateway for football. To my recollection, Indiana State and Southern Illinois were really the strongest opposition due to travel (SIU) and budget (ISUb). Youngstown seemed to be on the fence, but went all in at some point. Maybe that $250K fee each paid helped, but I know WIU and ISUr were always in favor.

Somewhere your conversation morphs into MVC basketball, and while a lot of our "posters" didn't want ORU or Belmont, many were in favor of UMKC, ORU or Belmont. Now the old farts who like swilling beer in desolate almost abandoned downtown STL can have it, but just as many of our fans would welcome a change to KC as they feel Doug Elgin is just as incompetent as Patty V.

There is also that small contingent who thinks ISUr should upgrade football and leave for someplace, any place. Problem is the MAC isn't interested, we were approaches by The Belt under our last AD who probably left because we didn't jump,
Beyond those two conferences there is no place to go, and financially we aren't ready.

As for WHO the voting block was behind close doors to prevent others from joining, once again my understanding is it was not our AD who opposed Western schools in basketball, but more the leagues pressure to replace a private with a private, and to enter the Chicago market, like that helps....pfft. I do firmly believe ISUr has to get its crap together as we should and have to help carry the banner of this league, since 1998...my kids weren't born last time we danced, and I was still single. Crap!

Once again, I'm capable of following the topic and what u both said but respectfully every fan base has it "outliers" and MY understanding of why certain conference movement happened/didn't happen differs from yours as it relates to Illinois State. Trash Bradley, SIU, ISUb and others all you want. :). Good day Gents.

[clenz]

I don't think the Summit is close to approaching the MVC, even with improved facilities. The MVC is about 7-8 deep with programs that can be relevant nationally. The Shockers performances speak for themselves, UNI is a legit program and SIU has had some good teams. Then there's Indiana State who's had has success recently and always gets free publicity due to Bird, Drake was ranked in the Top 15 late in the year in 2008 and Bradley was a national power back in the day. They're the La Salle of the Midwest. The Braves even had Hawkins when La Salle has Lionel Simmons....

The MVC also has Arch Madness. That is a HUGE deal in the world of college hoops. I've met numerous hoops fans that say it's a legit "bucket list" event for a bball junkie. Granted, this was when Creighton was still in the league...

I'm not hating on the Summit but it's not even close to being on the MVC's level. The MVC is already filled with nice facilities and well paid coaches. The Summit should first try to be better than the Horizon. Valpo, Detroit, Green Bay and Wright State are solid programs right now. Cleveland State, Oakland and UW-Milwaukee have all been good at some point recently too...
Shhhhh….

Quit being rational and saying what the national perception is.

The mvc has to ranked teams right now (okay, uni is at 26) and the summit?

the leagues really aren't close.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

[clenz]

Right now (yes, still early in the year) the MVC is #7 in RPI (
The Summit #27
Right now the worst RPI MVC team would still be 4th or 5th in the Summit

Last season was
MVC 11
Summit 17

That was likely the worst MVC in a decade plus last year as well and the best Summit maybe ever...and the RPI's weren't close. Even adding ORU/Denver into last years RPI doesn't get the Summit anywhere near what the MVC was.

the 12-13 season
MVC 9
Summit 19

Even taking Creighton out of the MVC and putting Denver/ORU into the Summit it's still a massive difference.



I have no doubt the Summit is "improving". The MVC doomsayers are extremely overstating the loss of Creighton. Creighton was the ultimate regular season team. Check how many S16s they have in their history.

UNI and WSU will continue to be what they are - top of the MVC. UNI hasn't finished worse than 6th in over a decade and only once (I think) worse than 5 and that was on a tie break. I think the average finish for UNI and WSU is like 2.something to 3.something over the last decade.

As I said - MSU, Evansville, Bradly, and ISUr fans can cry all they want about the drop the MVC saw last year (which already appears to have been recouped early in this season). If they step their games and their programs up (which wouldn't be real hard for them to do given the national reputation the MVC has, their recruiting hot bed areas, etc...). What the conference can't continue to have is programs like Evansville, Bradley, Drake, Loyola (shocking that it's the private schools that we have this issue with given the MVC make up) falling flat on their face in OOC to kill their SOS and then playing out of their asses against the top 2 or 3 schools in the conference and beating them. It's amazing how badly those schools will play all year, but when it comes to UNI, WSU, Creighton (a couple years ago), etc... they'd shoot 60% from 3 and just make everything....but get beat by 20 the game before and 30 the game after

[Herder]

I don't think the Summit is close to approaching the MVC, even with improved facilities. The MVC is about 7-8 deep with programs that can be relevant nationally. The Shockers performances speak for themselves, UNI is a legit program and SIU has had some good teams. Then there's Indiana State who's had has success recently and always gets free publicity due to Bird, Drake was ranked in the Top 15 late in the year in 2008 and Bradley was a national power back in the day. They're the La Salle of the Midwest. The Braves even had Hawkins when La Salle has Lionel Simmons....

The MVC also has Arch Madness. That is a HUGE deal in the world of college hoops. I've met numerous hoops fans that say it's a legit "bucket list" event for a bball junkie. Granted, this was when Creighton was still in the league...

I'm not hating on the Summit but it's not even close to being on the MVC's level. The MVC is already filled with nice facilities and well paid coaches. The Summit should first try to be better than the Horizon. Valpo, Detroit, Green Bay and Wright State are solid programs right now. Cleveland State, Oakland and UW-Milwaukee have all been good at some point recently too...

In 2014, they weren't relevant nationally, other than Wichita. UNI was not a top 3 in the Summit last season. 7-8 deep, no, not in 2013-14, not even close. 1 bid league. The Summit was ranked 15, and the mvc 12. Take out Witchita in 2013-2014, very equal other coaches pay which continues to improve in the Summit. Watch the attendance numbers at the Summit championship v. mvc arch madness the next 5 years. There won't be much difference in 5 years, with the better facility being the new Sanford Premier Center.

[clenz]

In 2014, they weren't relevant nationally, other than Wichita. UNI was not a top 3 in the Summit last season. 7-8 deep, no, not in 2013-14, not even close. 1 bid league. The Summit was ranked 15, and the mvc 12. Take out Witchita in 2013-2014, very equal other coaches pay which continues to improve in the Summit. Watch the attendance numbers at the Summit championship v. mvc arch madness the next 5 years. There won't be much difference in 5 years, with the better facility being the new Sanford Premier Center.
Your RPI numbers are WAY off




Rank
Conference
Avg. RPI
Avg. SOS
SOS Rank
Teams



1
Big 12 (http://realtimerpi.com/rpi_big12_Men.html)
0.5811 (http://realtimerpi.com/cgi-bin/rpi/rpi_wk.pl?id=big12&gender=Men&season=2013-2014)
0.5781 (http://realtimerpi.com/cgi-bin/rpi/rpi_wk.pl?id=big12&gender=Men&season=2013-2014)
1
10



2
Big Ten (http://realtimerpi.com/rpi_big10_Men.html)
0.5741 (http://realtimerpi.com/cgi-bin/rpi/rpi_wk.pl?id=big10&gender=Men&season=2013-2014)
0.5707 (http://realtimerpi.com/cgi-bin/rpi/rpi_wk.pl?id=big10&gender=Men&season=2013-2014)
2
12



3
Pacific-12 (http://realtimerpi.com/rpi_pac12_Men.html)
0.5686 (http://realtimerpi.com/cgi-bin/rpi/rpi_wk.pl?id=pac12&gender=Men&season=2013-2014)
0.5653 (http://realtimerpi.com/cgi-bin/rpi/rpi_wk.pl?id=pac12&gender=Men&season=2013-2014)
3
12



4
Big East (http://realtimerpi.com/rpi_bige_Men.html)
0.5634 (http://realtimerpi.com/cgi-bin/rpi/rpi_wk.pl?id=bige&gender=Men&season=2013-2014)
0.5600 (http://realtimerpi.com/cgi-bin/rpi/rpi_wk.pl?id=bige&gender=Men&season=2013-2014)
4
10



5
Atlantic Coast (http://realtimerpi.com/rpi_acc_Men.html)
0.5589 (http://realtimerpi.com/cgi-bin/rpi/rpi_wk.pl?id=acc&gender=Men&season=2013-2014)
0.5592 (http://realtimerpi.com/cgi-bin/rpi/rpi_wk.pl?id=acc&gender=Men&season=2013-2014)
5
15



6
Atlantic 10 (http://realtimerpi.com/rpi_atl10_Men.html)
0.5556 (http://realtimerpi.com/cgi-bin/rpi/rpi_wk.pl?id=atl10&gender=Men&season=2013-2014)
0.5490 (http://realtimerpi.com/cgi-bin/rpi/rpi_wk.pl?id=atl10&gender=Men&season=2013-2014)
7
13



7
Southeastern (http://realtimerpi.com/rpi_sec_Men.html)
0.5513 (http://realtimerpi.com/cgi-bin/rpi/rpi_wk.pl?id=sec&gender=Men&season=2013-2014)
0.5540 (http://realtimerpi.com/cgi-bin/rpi/rpi_wk.pl?id=sec&gender=Men&season=2013-2014)
6
14



8
American Athletic (http://realtimerpi.com/rpi_aac_Men.html)
0.5454 (http://realtimerpi.com/cgi-bin/rpi/rpi_wk.pl?id=aac&gender=Men&season=2013-2014)
0.5420 (http://realtimerpi.com/cgi-bin/rpi/rpi_wk.pl?id=aac&gender=Men&season=2013-2014)
8
10



9
West Coast (http://realtimerpi.com/rpi_wcc_Men.html)
0.5346 (http://realtimerpi.com/cgi-bin/rpi/rpi_wk.pl?id=wcc&gender=Men&season=2013-2014)
0.5321 (http://realtimerpi.com/cgi-bin/rpi/rpi_wk.pl?id=wcc&gender=Men&season=2013-2014)
9
10



10
Mountain West (http://realtimerpi.com/rpi_mwest_Men.html)
0.5266 (http://realtimerpi.com/cgi-bin/rpi/rpi_wk.pl?id=mwest&gender=Men&season=2013-2014)
0.5285 (http://realtimerpi.com/cgi-bin/rpi/rpi_wk.pl?id=mwest&gender=Men&season=2013-2014)
10
11






11
Missouri Valley (http://realtimerpi.com/rpi_mvc_Men.html)
0.5117 (http://realtimerpi.com/cgi-bin/rpi/rpi_wk.pl?id=mvc&gender=Men&season=2013-2014)
0.5132 (http://realtimerpi.com/cgi-bin/rpi/rpi_wk.pl?id=mvc&gender=Men&season=2013-2014)
11
10



12
Mid-American (http://realtimerpi.com/rpi_midam_Men.html)
0.5098 (http://realtimerpi.com/cgi-bin/rpi/rpi_wk.pl?id=midam&gender=Men&season=2013-2014)
0.5083 (http://realtimerpi.com/cgi-bin/rpi/rpi_wk.pl?id=midam&gender=Men&season=2013-2014)
12
12



13
Conference USA (http://realtimerpi.com/rpi_cusa_Men.html)
0.4980 (http://realtimerpi.com/cgi-bin/rpi/rpi_wk.pl?id=cusa&gender=Men&season=2013-2014)
0.5005 (http://realtimerpi.com/cgi-bin/rpi/rpi_wk.pl?id=cusa&gender=Men&season=2013-2014)
13
16



14
Horizon League (http://realtimerpi.com/rpi_horiz_Men.html)
0.4925 (http://realtimerpi.com/cgi-bin/rpi/rpi_wk.pl?id=horiz&gender=Men&season=2013-2014)
0.4938 (http://realtimerpi.com/cgi-bin/rpi/rpi_wk.pl?id=horiz&gender=Men&season=2013-2014)
15
9



15
Colonial Athletic (http://realtimerpi.com/rpi_coln_Men.html)
0.4897 (http://realtimerpi.com/cgi-bin/rpi/rpi_wk.pl?id=coln&gender=Men&season=2013-2014)
0.4939 (http://realtimerpi.com/cgi-bin/rpi/rpi_wk.pl?id=coln&gender=Men&season=2013-2014)
14
9



16
Metro Atlantic Athletic (http://realtimerpi.com/rpi_maac_Men.html)
0.4883 (http://realtimerpi.com/cgi-bin/rpi/rpi_wk.pl?id=maac&gender=Men&season=2013-2014)
0.4892 (http://realtimerpi.com/cgi-bin/rpi/rpi_wk.pl?id=maac&gender=Men&season=2013-2014)
17
11



17
Summit (http://realtimerpi.com/rpi_summit_Men.html)
0.4883 (http://realtimerpi.com/cgi-bin/rpi/rpi_wk.pl?id=summit&gender=Men&season=2013-2014)
0.4899 (http://realtimerpi.com/cgi-bin/rpi/rpi_wk.pl?id=summit&gender=Men&season=2013-2014)
16
8


http://realtimerpi.com/images/up.gif
18
Ivy League (http://realtimerpi.com/rpi_ivy_Men.html)
0.4815 (http://realtimerpi.com/cgi-bin/rpi/rpi_wk.pl?id=ivy&gender=Men&season=2013-2014)
0.4773 (http://realtimerpi.com/cgi-bin/rpi/rpi_wk.pl?id=ivy&gender=Men&season=2013-2014)
19
8


http://realtimerpi.com/images/down.gif
19
Sun Belt (http://realtimerpi.com/rpi_sbelt_Men.html)
0.4808 (http://realtimerpi.com/cgi-bin/rpi/rpi_wk.pl?id=sbelt&gender=Men&season=2013-2014)
0.4847 (http://realtimerpi.com/cgi-bin/rpi/rpi_wk.pl?id=sbelt&gender=Men&season=2013-2014)
18
10



20
Patriot League (http://realtimerpi.com/rpi_patr_Men.html)
0.4768 (http://realtimerpi.com/cgi-bin/rpi/rpi_wk.pl?id=patr&gender=Men&season=2013-2014)
0.4737 (http://realtimerpi.com/cgi-bin/rpi/rpi_wk.pl?id=patr&gender=Men&season=2013-2014)
20
10





In order for that difference in RPI to be made up there would have had to have been a dramatic shift last season in teams

Standings include conference tournaments...


RPI Rk
Missouri Valley
Conf
All
RPI
SOS Rk
SOS



4
Wichita St. (http://realtimerpi.com/rpi_303_Men.html)
21-0
33-0
0.6513 (http://realtimerpi.com/cgi-bin/rpi/rpi_wk.pl?id=303&gender=Men&season=2013-2014)
98
0.5351 (http://realtimerpi.com/cgi-bin/rpi/rpi_wk.pl?id=303&gender=Men&season=2013-2014)


http://realtimerpi.com/images/down.gif
74
Indiana St. (http://realtimerpi.com/rpi_299_Men.html)
14-7
21-11
0.5598 (http://realtimerpi.com/cgi-bin/rpi/rpi_wk.pl?id=299&gender=Men&season=2013-2014)
123
0.5158 (http://realtimerpi.com/cgi-bin/rpi/rpi_wk.pl?id=299&gender=Men&season=2013-2014)


http://realtimerpi.com/images/down.gif
87
Missouri State (http://realtimerpi.com/rpi_301_Men.html)
10-10
19-12
0.5483 (http://realtimerpi.com/cgi-bin/rpi/rpi_wk.pl?id=301&gender=Men&season=2013-2014)
107
0.5257 (http://realtimerpi.com/cgi-bin/rpi/rpi_wk.pl?id=301&gender=Men&season=2013-2014)


http://realtimerpi.com/images/down.gif
111
Northern Iowa (http://realtimerpi.com/rpi_300_Men.html)
10-9
15-15
0.5293 (http://realtimerpi.com/cgi-bin/rpi/rpi_wk.pl?id=300&gender=Men&season=2013-2014)
97
0.5363 (http://realtimerpi.com/cgi-bin/rpi/rpi_wk.pl?id=300&gender=Men&season=2013-2014)


http://realtimerpi.com/images/down.gif
136
Illinois St. (http://realtimerpi.com/rpi_298_Men.html)
9-10
15-15
0.5136 (http://realtimerpi.com/cgi-bin/rpi/rpi_wk.pl?id=298&gender=Men&season=2013-2014)
110
0.5238 (http://realtimerpi.com/cgi-bin/rpi/rpi_wk.pl?id=298&gender=Men&season=2013-2014)


http://realtimerpi.com/images/down.gif
175
Drake (http://realtimerpi.com/rpi_296_Men.html)
6-13
14-16
0.4935 (http://realtimerpi.com/cgi-bin/rpi/rpi_wk.pl?id=296&gender=Men&season=2013-2014)
148
0.5037 (http://realtimerpi.com/cgi-bin/rpi/rpi_wk.pl?id=296&gender=Men&season=2013-2014)


http://realtimerpi.com/images/down.gif
214
Southern Ill. (http://realtimerpi.com/rpi_302_Men.html)
10-10
13-19
0.4774 (http://realtimerpi.com/cgi-bin/rpi/rpi_wk.pl?id=302&gender=Men&season=2013-2014)
140
0.5066 (http://realtimerpi.com/cgi-bin/rpi/rpi_wk.pl?id=302&gender=Men&season=2013-2014)


http://realtimerpi.com/images/down.gif
216
Evansville (http://realtimerpi.com/rpi_297_Men.html)
7-13
12-19
0.4771 (http://realtimerpi.com/cgi-bin/rpi/rpi_wk.pl?id=297&gender=Men&season=2013-2014)
126
0.5145 (http://realtimerpi.com/cgi-bin/rpi/rpi_wk.pl?id=297&gender=Men&season=2013-2014)


http://realtimerpi.com/images/down.gif
269
Bradley (http://realtimerpi.com/rpi_294_Men.html)
7-12
12-20
0.4433 (http://realtimerpi.com/cgi-bin/rpi/rpi_wk.pl?id=294&gender=Men&season=2013-2014)
191
0.4885 (http://realtimerpi.com/cgi-bin/rpi/rpi_wk.pl?id=294&gender=Men&season=2013-2014)


http://realtimerpi.com/images/down.gif
292
Loyola (IL) (http://realtimerpi.com/rpi_234_Men.html)
5-15
9-22
0.4232 (http://realtimerpi.com/cgi-bin/rpi/rpi_wk.pl?id=234&gender=Men&season=2013-2014)
209
0.4816 (http://realtimerpi.com/cgi-bin/rpi/rpi_wk.pl?id=234&gender=Men&season=2013-2014)







RPI Rk
Summit
Conf
All
RPI
SOS Rk
SOS



33
North Dakota St (http://realtimerpi.com/rpi_432_Men.html)
14-2
22-6
0.5990 (http://realtimerpi.com/cgi-bin/rpi/rpi_wk.pl?id=432&gender=Men&season=2013-2014)
116
0.5200 (http://realtimerpi.com/cgi-bin/rpi/rpi_wk.pl?id=432&gender=Men&season=2013-2014)


http://realtimerpi.com/images/down.gif
118
IPFW (http://realtimerpi.com/rpi_239_Men.html)
12-5
21-10
0.5252 (http://realtimerpi.com/cgi-bin/rpi/rpi_wk.pl?id=239&gender=Men&season=2013-2014)
265
0.4602 (http://realtimerpi.com/cgi-bin/rpi/rpi_wk.pl?id=239&gender=Men&season=2013-2014)


http://realtimerpi.com/images/up.gif
133
South Dakota St (http://realtimerpi.com/rpi_433_Men.html)
11-5
16-12
0.5145 (http://realtimerpi.com/cgi-bin/rpi/rpi_wk.pl?id=433&gender=Men&season=2013-2014)
198
0.4860 (http://realtimerpi.com/cgi-bin/rpi/rpi_wk.pl?id=433&gender=Men&season=2013-2014)


http://realtimerpi.com/images/up.gif
138
Denver (http://realtimerpi.com/rpi_399_Men.html)
9-7
15-15
0.5125 (http://realtimerpi.com/cgi-bin/rpi/rpi_wk.pl?id=399&gender=Men&season=2013-2014)
117
0.5191 (http://realtimerpi.com/cgi-bin/rpi/rpi_wk.pl?id=399&gender=Men&season=2013-2014)


http://realtimerpi.com/images/down.gif
209
Nebraska Omaha (http://realtimerpi.com/rpi_449_Men.html)
5-9
13-13
0.4791 (http://realtimerpi.com/cgi-bin/rpi/rpi_wk.pl?id=449&gender=Men&season=2013-2014)
261
0.4608 (http://realtimerpi.com/cgi-bin/rpi/rpi_wk.pl?id=449&gender=Men&season=2013-2014)


http://realtimerpi.com/images/down.gif
257
South Dakota (http://realtimerpi.com/rpi_448_Men.html)
6-9
9-18
0.4528 (http://realtimerpi.com/cgi-bin/rpi/rpi_wk.pl?id=448&gender=Men&season=2013-2014)
170
0.4926 (http://realtimerpi.com/cgi-bin/rpi/rpi_wk.pl?id=448&gender=Men&season=2013-2014)


http://realtimerpi.com/images/up.gif
287
Western Ill. (http://realtimerpi.com/rpi_282_Men.html)
4-11
7-20
0.4262 (http://realtimerpi.com/cgi-bin/rpi/rpi_wk.pl?id=282&gender=Men&season=2013-2014)
206
0.4827 (http://realtimerpi.com/cgi-bin/rpi/rpi_wk.pl?id=282&gender=Men&season=2013-2014)



323
IUPUI (http://realtimerpi.com/rpi_276_Men.html)
1-14
3-26
0.3969 (http://realtimerpi.com/cgi-bin/rpi/rpi_wk.pl?id=276&gender=Men&season=2013-2014)
159
0.4975 (http://realtimerpi.com/cgi-bin/rpi/rpi_wk.pl?id=276&gender=Men&season=2013-2014)




So, the MVC (in it's worst season in over a decade) was still heads and shoulders better than the summit


UNI was top 3 in the MVC but wouldn't have been top 3 in the Summit? What drugs are you on?

[PantherRob82]

In 2014, they weren't relevant nationally, other than Wichita. UNI was not a top 3 in the Summit last season. 7-8 deep, no, not in 2013-14, not even close. 1 bid league. The Summit was ranked 15, and the mvc 12. Take out Witchita in 2013-2014, very equal other coaches pay which continues to improve in the Summit. Watch the attendance numbers at the Summit championship v. mvc arch madness the next 5 years. There won't be much difference in 5 years, with the better facility being the new Sanford Premier Center.

You're right. Facilities magically make teams better. My bad.

[clenz]

A 12k arena is nice… wouldn't hold the arch madness crowd

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

[Dave195]

I still think Monmouth may end up in the Patriot League for football.

Big factor in that could be MU's new president. Came here after being in charge of the business program @ Lehigh. Relationships maybe?

Also, our only head coach in team history is a Colgate grad for what it's worth.

[IBleedYellow]

This is a damn football forum...get this stupid bouncy ball shooty talk onto an appropriate forum where people care.

[birdsflyhigh]

Agree that this is a football forum, but Summit fans thinking they're just around the corner from MVC level hoops is just flat-out a ridiculous hoot. ISU basketball is taking on the VCU Rams tonight, so any dual fans (hoops and pigskin that is) should check in on that game as the Redbirds look to upset a very talented VCU team.

[clenz]

You're right. Facilities magically make teams better. My bad.
whats amazing is NDSUs new facilities would still put them ahead of only drake in the mvc

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

[ValleyChamp]

The Mvc has Wichita, other than that the Summit vs Mvc was pretty equal in 2014, and that was pre-oRU. If Wichita sticks around, advantage Mvc, otherwise equal. 1/2 of the Summit has new arena opening by 2016, and the Conf championship in the 12000 seat Sanford Premier Center. The profile is on the rise.

Laughable.

[ValleyChamp]

In 2014, they weren't relevant nationally, other than Wichita. UNI was not a top 3 in the Summit last season. 7-8 deep, no, not in 2013-14, not even close. 1 bid league. The Summit was ranked 15, and the mvc 12. Take out Witchita in 2013-2014, very equal other coaches pay which continues to improve in the Summit. Watch the attendance numbers at the Summit championship v. mvc arch madness the next 5 years. There won't be much difference in 5 years, with the better facility being the new Sanford Premier Center.

Laughable. Just stop.

[Herder]

11 - 16, but was 12-15 for much of the season. And yes UNI would have been top 2 in the Summit, but that with a .500 record and +100 sagarin. WSU is pretty integral to the mvc.

CONFERENCE CENTRAL MEAN SIMPLE AVERAGE TEAMS WIN50%

1 BIG TEN = 83.79 83.89 ( 1) 12 83.83 ( 1)
2 BIG 12 = 83.58 82.88 ( 2) 10 83.38 ( 2)
3 PAC-12 = 81.56 81.61 ( 3) 12 81.57 ( 3)
4 ATLANTIC COAST = 81.53 81.47 ( 4) 15 81.50 ( 4)
5 BIG EAST = 80.63 80.75 ( 6) 10 80.67 ( 5)
6 SOUTHEASTERN = 80.07 80.78 ( 5) 14 80.27 ( 6)
7 AMERICAN ATHLETIC = 79.87 80.32 ( 7) 10 80.00 ( 7)
8 ATLANTIC 10 = 79.26 79.05 ( 8) 13 79.16 ( 8)
9 WEST COAST = 76.51 77.04 ( 9) 10 76.77 ( 9)
10 MOUNTAIN WEST = 76.23 76.15 ( 10) 11 76.25 ( 10)
11 MISSOURI VALLEY = 73.17 73.92 ( 11) 10 73.23 ( 11)
12 MID-AMERICAN(east) = 72.61 72.76 ( 12) 6 72.72 ( 12)
13 HORIZON = 72.35 72.49 ( 13) 9 72.46 ( 13)
14 IVY LEAGUE = 72.09 71.84 ( 14) 8 72.03 ( 14)
15 METRO ATLANTIC = 71.38 71.83 ( 15) 11 71.59 ( 15)
16 SUMMIT LEAGUE = 71.35 70.88 ( 18) 8 71.23 ( 16)

11 MISSOURI VALLEY = 73.17 73.92 ( 11) TEAMS= 10 73.23 ( 11)
College Basketball 2013-2014 Div I games only through games of 2014 April 7 Monday - FINAL (NCAA Championship)
RATING W L SCHEDL(RANK) VS top 25 | VS top 50 | GOLDEN_MEAN | PREDICTOR | PURE_ELO
HOME ADVANTAGE=[ 3.38] [ 3.21] [ 3.17] [ 4.05]
11 Wichita State = 89.55 34 1 73.51( 129) 1 1 | 2 1 | 89.04 13 | 88.86 14 | 91.32 8
104 Northern Iowa = 76.89 15 15 74.87( 111) 0 4 | 1 5 | 77.26 100 | 77.65 95 | 74.26 145
117 Indiana State = 76.22 21 11 73.64( 126) 0 3 | 0 5 | 75.36 125 | 75.54 120 | 78.33 91
148 Missouri State = 73.81 19 13 73.31( 134) 0 5 | 0 5 | 73.50 149 | 72.83 157 | 75.37 126
151 Illinois State = 73.62 17 16 73.88( 120) 0 2 | 1 3 | 73.20 155 | 73.43 150 | 73.84 149
173 Southern Illinois = 72.10 13 19 73.15( 136) 0 2 | 0 3 | 71.40 181 | 72.48 164 | 71.75 178
190 Drake = 70.97 14 16 72.85( 147) 0 2 | 0 3 | 70.52 198 | 71.01 185 | 70.82 192
206 Evansville = 70.07 12 19 73.66( 125) 0 3 | 0 3 | 70.41 199 | 69.14 211 | 70.37 205
220 Bradley = 69.11 12 20 71.74( 182) 0 2 | 0 3 | 68.64 222 | 69.24 210 | 68.85 230
259 Loyola-Chicago = 66.84 9 22 71.56( 186) 0 2 | 0 2 | 66.20 260 | 67.43 245 | 65.90 264
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ________________________________

16 SUMMIT LEAGUE = 71.35 70.88 ( 18) TEAMS= 8 71.23 ( 16)
College Basketball 2013-2014 Div I games only through games of 2014 April 7 Monday - FINAL (NCAA Championship)
RATING W L SCHEDL(RANK) VS top 25 | VS top 50 | GOLDEN_MEAN | PREDICTOR | PURE_ELO
HOME ADVANTAGE=[ 3.38] [ 3.21] [ 3.17] [ 4.05]
64 North Dakota State = 80.59 23 7 73.72( 123) 0 2 | 1 2 | 79.87 73 | 79.50 73 | 83.66 41
135 Fort Wayne(IPFW) = 74.71 22 11 70.36( 224) 0 0 | 0 1 | 74.92 128 | 73.27 154 | 76.30 109
145 Denver = 74.05 15 15 73.44( 131) 0 0 | 0 3 | 73.96 144 | 73.65 145 | 74.12 147
149 South Dakota State = 73.77 16 13 71.91( 177) 0 0 | 0 2 | 73.18 156 | 73.40 151 | 74.65 138
180 Omaha(Neb.-Omaha) = 71.56 14 15 71.11( 201) 0 0 | 0 2 | 72.39 162 | 71.35 182 | 69.64 215
247 South Dakota = 67.67 9 18 73.07( 139) 0 0 | 0 1 | 68.14 234 | 66.40 263 | 68.32 238
271 Western Illinois = 65.94 7 20 72.04( 170) 0 0 | 0 0 | 65.77 266 | 65.83 273 | 65.61 266
332 IUPUI = 58.73 3 26 72.50( 157) 0 0 | 0 0 | 58.68 330 | 59.26 326 | 56.48 341
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ________________________________

[clenz]

So the mvc is still top third and the summit bottom half but the summit is just as good?

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

[FargoBison]

Some of my fellow Bison fans need to calm down, we aren't close to the MVC in hoops. We are catching up to the Horizon I guess, especially with ORU coming back. But the MVC is a much different beast.

[Ghost]

Meanwhile... The announcement is planned for today. http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2014/12/uab_president_ray_watts_expect.html

[clenz]

Some of my fellow Bison fans need to calm down, we aren't close to the MVC in hoops. We are catching up to the Horizon I guess, especially with ORU coming back. But the MVC is a much different beast.
It's like the ovc or big south claiming they are right on the heels of the mvfc, caa or big sky in football because they are slightly improved in their beat year ever.

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[Lehigh Football Nation]

Hmm, did you even remember when BU, Hofstra, Pacific, etc dropped football? Did students really protest?

At BU and Hofstra there were very bitter protests from the players themselves and some students.

[FargoBison]

It's like the ovc or big south claiming they are right on the heels of the mvfc, caa or big sky in football because they are slightly improved in their beat year ever.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

Probably a good comparison.

The Summit is getting better but some schools still basically have Division 2 facilities and support. The schools with the best facilities and support in the Summit would rank in the middle of the MVC.

Not sure a lot of Bison fans understand just what the MVC as a conference puts into hoops.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

This is a damn football forum...get this stupid bouncy ball shooty talk onto an appropriate forum where people care.

I think the hoops talk relates back to football. There's a lot of schools trying to forge an indentity and while gaining financial stability. Hoops plays a big role in that.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Some of my fellow Bison fans need to calm down, we aren't close to the MVC in hoops. We are catching up to the Horizon I guess, especially with ORU coming back. But the MVC is a much different beast.

The Horizon should be the Summit's target. The Summit schools as a whole really need to step up their game in the want to elevate themselves to the next echelon of college hoops. The A10, MVC, MWC, Big East, WCC and AAC comprise that group....

[dbackjon]

MVC vs Summit - MVC clearly better, and has a good national reputation.


Just an example - another board I follow that deals mainly with P5 football, and major college basketball is tracking how the Power basketball conferences are doing against each other. MVC is included in that group. Summit is not. Even without Creighton, the MVC is put up there with the other non-football power basketball leagues (A-10, Big East, WCC)

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I think UAB may very well be ending athletics entirely, or dropping to D-III or something like that. There's simply no good option for them in D-I, and by dropping football they'll be one sport short of the D-I minimum.

Wouldn't C-USA be trying everything to keep UAB around? All they offer in regards to dropping athletics is a giant headache for them in trying to find a new member and their RPI in hoops falling dramatically.

[FargoBison]

To get this back on topic, I think a few FCS schools and especially Missouri State should look at UAB's coach. He did a good job with the debacle he was handed.

[Gordon Shumway]

Give college students a reason to skip class on a warm day right after a holiday break and they'll jump at it. I wonder how many of them ever attend games.

If UAB drops football, they will have issues staying in DI. The NCAA requires DI members to sponsor at least six men's and eight women's sports.

Without football, the men will be left with:
Basketball
Baseball
Soccer
Golf
Tennis

The women have:
Basketball
Softball
Soccer
Golf
Tennis
Volleyball
Sand volleyball
Indoor track
Outdoor track
Cross country
Bowling
Rifle

I guess they could start a men's track program if they wanted to stay DI. Really not much they can add and have short travel for meets.

I don't know if C-USA would take Chatty since they don't sponsor baseball, though I think UTEP doesn't have a team.

They could easily add another men's sport. Not only will they save the football money, but they can easily drop 4 women's sports. The only reason there are that many women's teams is Title IX. If football goes away, a lot of Title IX required spending goes with it.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

They could easily add another men's sport. Not only will they save the football money, but they can easily drop 4 women's sports. The only reason there are that many women's teams is Title IX. If football goes away, a lot of Title IX required spending goes with it.

However, they will be at the NCAA minimum in regards to sports with no obvious conference to join. And I don't think the A-Sun is going to be an acceptable solution for them.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

ESPN source says UAB is indeed shutting down their football program.

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/11967626/uab-blazers-shut-football-program

[clenz]

The Horizon should be the Summit's target. The Summit schools as a whole really need to step up their game in the want to elevate themselves to the next echelon of college hoops. The A10, MVC, MWC and AAC comprise that group....
To related it back to football, to appease IBY...

There might be teams with borderline records in the MVC that would absolutely run other leagues - just like the MVFC.

Is the MVC was it was in 2006? Probably not but we are one team stepping their program up from getting really damn close to it again.

I think the average MVC coach is paid something like 500K.

UNI has an extremely nice arena and facilities but it's still on the small side

Bradley - Peoria Civic Center - 11,164 capacity
http://www.chicagoarchitecture.info/LegacyImages/P/PeoriaCivicCenter-Jul08-008a.jpg


http://www.peoriaciviccenter.com/image/92/600

Drake - Knapp Center - 7,152....by far the worst facility in the conference...not even close...absolute dump by MVC standards
http://drakeapedia.cowleswiki.drake.edu/file/view/knapp_center_picturedesmoines.com.jpg/347852946/knapp_center_picturedesmoines.com.jpg
http://www.drakehoops.com/images/Knapp%20Center%20Packed%20House.png


Evansville - The Ford Center - 11,000 capacity
http://www.lehmanroofing.com/sites/default/files/uploads/projects/FORD-CENTER_WebCrop.jpg
http://populous.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/FordCenter-Evansville-SeatingBowl.jpg

Illinois State - Redbird Arena 10,200 capacity
http://maps.illinoisstate.edu/images/large/redbird_arena.jpg
http://i348.photobucket.com/albums/q340/unipanthers10/264_zpsfc1d90f6.jpg

Indiana State - Hulman Center 10,200 capacity
http://i348.photobucket.com/albums/q340/unipanthers10/264_zps744be24e.jpg

Missouri State - JQH Arena 11k capacity
http://grfx.cstv.com/schools/mosu/graphics/facilityweb/JQHWebLarge.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/18/Msu_v_arkansas.jpg


Northern Iowa - McLeod Center 7,100 capacity
http://www.cardinalconst.com/wp-content/gallery/projects-higher-ed-uni-mcleod/higher-ed-uni-mcleod-1.jpg
https://admin.xosn.com/pics33/0/WZ/WZONGYBGIGJNZUP.20140522141221.jpg


Southern Illinois - SIU Arena - 8,300 capacity
http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/silu/sports/m-baskbl/auto_sportbsi/10225857.jpeg

Wichita State - Charles Koch Arena - 10,500
http://www.kansas.com/incoming/ka7aue/picture934378/alternates/FREE_960/G2Q1M70OG.4MBO

[superman7515]

They could easily add another men's sport. Not only will they save the football money, but they can easily drop 4 women's sports. The only reason there are that many women's teams is Title IX. If football goes away, a lot of Title IX required spending goes with it.

Rifle is a men's sport for the NCAA. UAB fields a women's team, but all they would need to do is make the team co-ed, which is allowed, and boom, they meet the men's sports requirement. Nothing to buy, nothing to expand, no one to hire.

But please, save volleyball!

[clenz]

Rifle is a men's sport for the NCAA. UAB fields a women's team, but all they would need to do is make the team co-ed, which is allowed, and boom, they meet the men's sports requirement. Nothing to buy, nothing to expand, no one to hire.

But please, save volleyball!
That rule is why I'm shocked I see so few mens track/xc teams

[344Johnson]

Lol. UNI arena screams of Soviet Era functional architecture. Not a bad thing though.

MVC arenas look like a lot of fun. College basketball is my 3rd favorite sport to follow.

[IBleedYellow]

Back to the original topic: no more shooty hoops squeaky shoes chit chat.

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/11967626/uab-blazers-shut-football-program?ex_cid=espnapi_public

[clenz]

Lol. UNI arena screams of Soviet Era functional architecture. Not a bad thing though.

MVC arenas look like a lot of fun. College basketball is my 3rd favorite sport to follow.
It's a lot nicer on the inside than the outside.

It was initially supposed to be bigger (in the 10-12k range) but that didn't happen for some reason. I'm not 100% sure why.

The glass panels all the way around add a lot of "personality" to the inside when the sun comes shining through.

[Teal2018]

How did this thread about UAB football ending turn into a discussion on MVC basketball arenas?

[clenz]

How did this thread about UAB football ending turn into a discussion on MVC basketball arenas?
Well that's pretty easy to follow, really.

1. UAB drops football
2. UAB basketball/all sports needs a home
3. UAB basketball has traditionally been pretty good
4. The MVC would be a nice home for them - and was mentioned in this thread
5. Some NDSU fan starts talking **** about the MVC being a **** league and the Summit being every bit as good
6. Said poster(s) get called on their bull ****
7. Said poster(s) then talk about NDSU's new facility that will make the amazing and the Summit playing their conference tourney in an arena still not big enough to hold a normal session crowd at the MVC tournament
8. Level headed posters tell said poster(s) that they are crazy and it's not even close
9. Some NDSU poster(s) come in and say "Yeah, it's not close"
10. For proof it's not close MVC arenas/facilities get posted.

[IBleedYellow]

Basically some Bison fans think our basketball is world class because we beat OU last year and because of it our **** don't stink.

Also, so many people relate MVFC = MVC and since NDSU is doing well in the MVFC, we automatically should be in the MVC. False reasoning at it's finest.

Back to our regularly scheduled programming, and damnit Chad, making me talk basketball when the best time of football is upon us.

[hebmskebm]

How did this thread about UAB football ending turn into a discussion on MVC basketball arenas?

This is all just prelude to the inevitable 50 page Patriot League discussion that keeps this thread alive for 6 more months.

[Go Green]

How did this thread about UAB football ending turn into a discussion on MVC basketball arenas?

Same way the discussion of several Lehigh players getting suspended last year turned into a discussion of who was the best looking female movie star of the 1970s.

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/showthread.php?140556-Trouble-at-Lehigh/page11&highlight=macgraw

[clenz]

Back to our regularly scheduled programming, and damnit Chad, making me talk basketball when the best time of football is upon us.
Hey....just because you are under my spell isn't my fault...

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I fail to see how UAB basketball fits in the MVC in hoops. They're barely a D-I program without football, and they're a plane ride for the entire conference. 6 hours from Missouri State, and that's the closest conferencemate.

[SU_IT_able]

If Cost is truly the reason behind cutting UAB FB then the MVC is a non-starter. Travel costs for all those non-revenue sports would be prohibitive.

[RabidRabbit]

If UAB cuts football, and the corresponding womens sports to get the athletic budget down, I'd envision that they're close to going below minimum number of sports for D-I. A-Sun? Man, that'd be a long fall from C-USA.

[IBleedYellow]

Pipedream scenario time if UAB cuts football.

UAB cuts football, would fall out of C-USA.
C-USA takes ULL Ragin Cajuns
Funbelt adds MO State

MVFC stays at 9 teams.

[Sycamore62]

This whole thing is just plain stupid. They should just cut everything but mens and women's basketball. Men's can pay for women's (because that's how college athletics works most places) then you have covered your Title IX.

yes i realize you have to have the correct amount of D1 sports and this cant happen.

Sucks that they just lost advertising for their band program but who cares about music

[The Boogie Down]

How are the mighty fallen in the midst of battle! Jonathan is slain on your high places...

From turning down Charlotte and asking the NCAA if we could all move to FBS together as one conference, to debating whether Central Connecticut or Monmouth would be the better fit...


Hail Marinara,
Full of Spice,
The Flying Spaghetti Monster is filled with thee.
Tasty art thou amongst sauces,
And blessed is the fruit
Of thy jar, tomatoes
(although fools believe they are vegetables).
Holy Marinara,
Chief Amongst Toppings,
Save our Colonial conference now,
And at about 6 o’clock when dinner is served, if you would be so kind.
RAM-Men.


Except for fixing your last line, sincerely, truly and undoubtedly EXCELLENT work!!! Oh and I think I have an answer to that agnostic prayer. Hint-hint, Vince Lombardi was known for a mean Marinara!

[Lehigh Football Nation]

http://www.conferenceusa.com/genrel/120214aac.html


"We are aware of the study but disappointed with the decision to discontinue the sport of football at UAB, particularly because of its effect on the lives of the student-athletes and coaches that have worked so hard to restore the quality of the program. We don't fully understand the decision, nor agree with it, but do respect it and the authority of the UAB Administration to make it.

As a conference, we will move forward in our pursuit of excellence in athletics and academics, with the primary goal of providing a positive educational experience for all of our 5,000 student-athletes. Our universities have invested in athletics, and in facilities to support athletics, and are focused on their student-athletes and the contribution college athletics makes on their campuses and in their communities.


UAB has been a contributing member to the Conference since its inception and has expressed a strong interest in remaining a member, a topic that the Conference's Board of Directors will take up in the months ahead. The Conference's current bylaws require all members to sponsor football."

UAB had better prepare their A-Sun application pronto.

[The Boogie Down]

Monstrous Monmouth to the CAA? Sexy Central Connecticut State instead? I know UAB's fall, and the subsequent series of tipped dominoes, makes for some entertaining internet chitter-chatter. Well, maybe not the Summit League part but definitely the possibility of James Madison moving to a conference fitting of their presidential name, C-USA. But putting either Monmouth or Central in any sort of JMU replacement talk? My have the mighty have fallen indeed! Adding either would be the final nail in hammering the CAA into a SoSo Con North, or a Patsy League South.

Not to mention that the dominoes, even from inside the CAA, would not stop there. Instead, adding Monmouth or Central (and a move by either to the America East in other sports) would bring the AEC one step closer to usurping football operations.

So lemme try to help. What the CAA needs is a an all-sports addition, not another out of conference team playing football in the CAA. Fordham should be that team. The Original Rams (and not those Kingston impostors) already offer 60 scholarships. They're already a proven playoffs team. They've already placed FBS teams on their schedule. They've recently put a QB in the NFL. They also have a history which is pretty unmatched by any other FCS team.

And to keep the hoops theme in this thread alive, they'd be a perfect fit for the CAA in bouncy ball too. In fact, after a failed 5 year experiment in the Patriot League, and 20 years of being the A-10's single biggest laughingstock, I'm sure the hardwood program (and its connection to two NBA arenas) would secretly welcome more competitive games against William and Mary instead of Boogie Down beatdowns against VCU.

If JMU takes this opening to jump ship then no doubt that Chattanooga should be the CAA's first choice. But if they decide against signing up for games against Maine and Albany, then the next choice is clear. Not just for football but for all sports. Adding Fordham for all sports not only strengthens football in ways Monmouth and Central never will, but it also gives CAA hoops a true footprint to where the City Game was born.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Fordham ain't giving up that A-10 money.

[blackbeard]

Its Official: http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2014/12/uab_ends_football_program_rele.html?hootPostID=e6e fa1b08f7154ec893b2962265cea42#incart_big-photo

Dropping Football, and Rifle and Bowling for Women

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Lol. UNI arena screams of Soviet Era functional architecture. Not a bad thing though.

MVC arenas look like a lot of fun. College basketball is my 3rd favorite sport to follow.

UNI's arena is really nice! I like that style. It's very Palestra/Cameron-esque. Most arenas that are less than 9-10k should not have an upper deck. It usually looks very awkward.

At the end of the day, UAB will remain D1 and the MVC is a great option....

[dgtw]

There goes Supe's dream of a UAB men's rifle team.

I have not heard about adding any sports, I would guess track would be the easiest.

On a personal note, a good friend of mine has a daughter who was going to be a majorette at UAB next year. He was pretty pissed off and said she was crushed as she had been planning this for a long time.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Its Official: http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2014/12/uab_ends_football_program_rele.html?hootPostID=e6e fa1b08f7154ec893b2962265cea42#incart_big-photo

Dropping Football, and Rifle and Bowling for Women

What dominos will fall now? Does JMU FINALLY get the call? How about Liberty? Or does CUSA stay at 12? 6 East, 6 West....

[Lehigh Football Nation]

What dominos will fall now? Does JMU FINALLY get the call? How about Liberty? Or does CUSA stay at 12? 6 East, 6 West....

Which 2 schools move west? That's the dilemma.

[BisonFan02]

Which 2 schools move west? That's the dilemma.

NDSU :D

[DFW HOYA]

The athletic director wouldn't buy in to Tuscaloosa's decision. He has been reassigned.

"UAB Athletic Director Brian Mackin has been reassigned from his position as athletic director to the newly created position of special assistant for Athletics. In this role, Mackin will be dedicated to assisting student athletes and coaches affected by the discontinuation of programs."

(Actual job: Playing out his contract and sending out resumes.)

The timing on this is just bizarre. Why the need to drop it right now, before a bowl game UAB has earned? Most of the despot presidents waited until February to cut the cord and avoid the backlash (Silber, Rabinowitz, etc.) UAB's president didn't even have the authority to tell Little Bear what to do. Roll Tide, indeed.

Also at play: what conference takes this school in? Summit? Or is Tuscaloosa seeing UAB headed to D-II with UAH?

[49RFootballNow]

The athletic director wouldn't buy in to Tuscaloosa's decision. He has been reassigned.

"UAB Athletic Director Brian Mackin has been reassigned from his position as athletic director to the newly created position of special assistant for Athletics. In this role, Mackin will be dedicated to assisting student athletes and coaches affected by the discontinuation of programs."

(Actual job: Playing out his contract and sending out resumes.)

The timing on this is just bizarre. Why the need to drop it right now, before a bowl game UAB has earned? Most of the despot presidents waited until February to cut the cord and avoid the backlash (Silber, Rabinowitz, etc.)

Also at play: what conference takes this school in? Summit? Or is Tuscaloosa seeing UAB headed to D-II with UAH?

The reason is simple:

Paul Bear Bryant Jr. is a **** and Gene Bartow isn't alive to fight him anymore.

[dbackjon]

The reason is simple:

Paul Bear Bryant Jr. is a **** and Gene Bartow isn't alive to fight him anymore.

Bingo. And his term is almost over on the BOT. Has to kill UAB before he leaves. ****ing asshole.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Might the OVC take UAB when they're evicted from C-USA?

Which leads to something interesting

UL-Lafayette or Arkansas State --> C-USA
Jacksonville State --> Sun Belt
UAB --> OVC

It also would open up the possibility of re-starting UAB as an FCS program...

[dgtw]

We have enough non-football crap in the OVC. No thanks.

I saw on a UAB board they are adding men's track and cross country.

[DFW HOYA]

Fordham ain't giving up that A-10 money.

A-10 money? It's not much more than the CAA gets, which is to say "not very much". Under $200K a year.

Butler is laughing all the way to the bank.

[Dave195]

Monstrous Monmouth to the CAA? Sexy Central Connecticut State instead? I know UAB's fall, and the subsequent series of tipped dominoes, makes for some entertaining internet chitter-chatter. Well, maybe not the Summit League part but definitely the possibility of James Madison moving to a conference fitting of their presidential name, C-USA. But putting either Monmouth or Central in any sort of JMU replacement talk? My have the mighty have fallen indeed! Adding either would be the final nail in hammering the CAA into a SoSo Con North, or a Patsy League South.

Not to mention that the dominoes, even from inside the CAA, would not stop there. Instead, adding Monmouth or Central (and a move by either to the America East in other sports) would bring the AEC one step closer to usurping football operations.

So lemme try to help. What the CAA needs is a an all-sports addition, not another out of conference team playing football in the CAA. Fordham should be that team. The Original Rams (and not those Kingston impostors) already offer 60 scholarships. They're already a proven playoffs team. They've already placed FBS teams on their schedule. They've recently put a QB in the NFL. They also have a history which is pretty unmatched by any other FCS team.

And to keep the hoops theme in this thread alive, they'd be a perfect fit for the CAA in bouncy ball too. In fact, after a failed 5 year experiment in the Patriot League, and 20 years of being the A-10's single biggest laughingstock, I'm sure the hardwood program (and its connection to two NBA arenas) would secretly welcome more competitive games against William and Mary instead of Boogie Down beatdowns against VCU.

If JMU takes this opening to jump ship then no doubt that Chattanooga should be the CAA's first choice. But if they decide against signing up for games against Maine and Albany, then the next choice is clear. Not just for football but for all sports. Adding Fordham for all sports not only strengthens football in ways Monmouth and Central never will, but it also gives CAA hoops a true footprint to where the City Game was born.

Fordham's facilities are crap. Monmouth would be a superior CAA add in every way.

[Dane96]

LOL. In general, you have a lot of balls.

[bonarae]

I think UAB may very well be ending athletics entirely, or dropping to D-III or something like that. There's simply no good option for them in D-I, and by dropping football they'll be one sport short of the D-I minimum.

I think Tulane and UNO have had exemptions for keeping their numbers of sports below the required minimum, but those have probably expired by now. (Tulane now has a bowling program.)

D-II and D-III and possibly NAIA are better options for the Blazers now. Sorry for us being swamped in the MVC basketball talk... xconfusedx

End athletics entirely? Eventually I think so. Northeastern Illinois was the last D-I to quit the NCAA in 1998. They aren't back in any athletic association since then. BYU-Hawaii will quit on sports at the end of this academic year.


The athletic director wouldn't buy in to Tuscaloosa's decision. He has been reassigned.

"UAB Athletic Director Brian Mackin has been reassigned from his position as athletic director to the newly created position of special assistant for Athletics. In this role, Mackin will be dedicated to assisting student athletes and coaches affected by the discontinuation of programs."

(Actual job: Playing out his contract and sending out resumes.)

The timing on this is just bizarre. Why the need to drop it right now, before a bowl game UAB has earned? Most of the despot presidents waited until February to cut the cord and avoid the backlash (Silber, Rabinowitz, etc.) UAB's president didn't even have the authority to tell Little Bear what to do. Roll Tide, indeed.

Also at play: what conference takes this school in? Summit? Or is Tuscaloosa seeing UAB headed to D-II with UAH?

Reassigned? Hmm, he needs to jump ship to a school with a similar opening (read: Michigan?) for him right now.

Tuscaloosa may put her two sister universities to D-II, where they should belong.

[344Johnson]

I hope the UAB folks all become auburn fans.... And donate heavily.

[Lehigh'98]

Might the OVC take UAB when they're evicted from C-USA?

Which leads to something interesting

UL-Lafayette or Arkansas State --> C-USA
Jacksonville State --> Sun Belt
UAB --> OVC

It also would open up the possibility of re-starting UAB as an FCS program...

Why do you always speculate about FBS teams moving to FCS LFN? It is not happening, ever! Not sure why you bring it up so much. What would be the point?

[LehighU11]

Why do you always speculate about FBS teams moving to FCS LFN? It is not happening, ever! Not sure why you bring it up so much. What would be the point?
I'm still waiting for the official announcement of that new northeastern/Big East FBS conference with Penn State, Lehigh, BC, Holy Cross, and whoever else was included amidst the speculation...

[IBleedYellow]

Man, I love that you other Lehigh posters are calling him out on his ****! Makes me not look like the asshole I am! Thanks guys!

[clenz]

Man, I love that you other Lehigh posters are calling him out on his ****! Makes me not look like the asshole I am! Thanks guys!
Oh… you've still an asshole alright.










So am I though

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

[JaxSinfonian]

Jacksonville State --> Sun Belt

I don't see this happening, at least not soon. Trustees a few years ago were high on the idea, but the money would have to come from somewhere. As much as many at JSU would love to resume a series with old arch-rival Troy, the Trojans just signed Neal Brown as coach for $700,000 per year. I don't know where Troy is getting that, and I can't imagine where JSU would even think to look for it. Guarantee games against P5? Seem a tenuous proposition at best, especially with the prospect of player stipends just down the line.

College football is about to see some big changes, I think, and the landscape will look very different in a few years. Think about the era of change that led to & followed the creation of I-AA ... Major-major programs separating themselves from the rest through their superior resources generated largely from TV revenue, and the mid-majors carving out a separate set of lower-cost rules that let them stay DI, but DI Lite in football.

Now multiply the TV money by a bajillion, and imagine the potential effect on divisional structure. I think this is just the beginning.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[bonarae]

College football is about to see some big changes, I think, and the landscape will look very different in a few years. Think about the era of change that led to & followed the creation of I-AA ... Major-major programs separating themselves from the rest through their superior resources generated largely from TV revenue, and the mid-majors carving out a separate set of lower-cost rules that let them stay DI, but DI Lite in football.

Now multiply the TV money by a bajillion, and imagine the potential effect on divisional structure. I think this is just the beginning.

It will be getting ugly before we realize that the greed is too much for us to take in... xsmhx

[TheKingpin28]

It's just a shame that these men (some are still boys) compete day in and day out and Bryant Jr. is sticking it to them by defunding fun. I truly hope those guys have the chance to play against big brother in the future but I truly wish them the best since no team should fold due to the board not wanting them to compete.

[bonarae]

It's just a shame that these men (some are still boys) compete day in and day out and Bryant Jr. is sticking it to them by defunding fun. I truly hope those guys have the chance to play against big brother in the future but I truly wish them the best since no team should fold due to the board not wanting them to compete.

Let's just hope that any FCS, D-II or NAIA takes any of them in with open arms.

[DFW HOYA]

http://imgick.al.com/home/bama-media/pgmain/img/alphotos/photo/2014/12/02/uab-charlie-brown-34ec4c4c121658e1.jpg

[Sycamore62]

Im bored this morning and just throwing a spitball out there.....

if this were to start a trend, could this end up hurting the P5 conference because of a minor league emerging? With less competition for entertainment dollars, one might be more feasible.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Why do you always speculate about FBS teams moving to FCS LFN? It is not happening, ever! Not sure why you bring it up so much. What would be the point?

1. Keeping their athletics programs D-I.
2. Allowing them to have a conference to call home

Even if they add men's track, C-USA will probably evict them from the conference, meaning they will need a new conference. The OVC makes the most sense geographically, even if their hoops program takes a hit.

I'm not even saying they WILL restart as an FCS program, only saying that IF they wanted to and were in the OVC, that option would be open.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I'm still waiting for the official announcement of that new northeastern/Big East FBS conference with Penn State, Lehigh, BC, Holy Cross, and whoever else was included amidst the speculation...

Please share with me where I posted that.

[uni88]

Im bored this morning and just throwing a spitball out there.....

if this were to start a trend, could this end up hurting the P5 conference because of a minor league emerging? With less competition for entertainment dollars, one might be more feasible.
I don't think a minor league hurts the P5 conferences. One of the things that gets lost on both sides (schools & players) of the college football makes so much money argument is what the alternative would be if college football wasn't as big as it is. The Tuscaloosa Titans wouldn't fill a stadium like Alabama does because they wouldn't be the team that represents the entire state and draws fans regardless of whether they went to school there or not. The South Bend Sabres wouldn't have the national following that Notre Dame does because they wouldn't appeal to Catholics across the country. If there were a minor league, rather than getting college educations, tutors, training tables, etc. players would be getting paid peanuts and taking buses to games rather than charter flights while hoping to make it to the NFL.

[DFW HOYA]

I'm not even saying they WILL restart as an FCS program, only saying that IF they wanted to and were in the OVC, that option would be open.

C-USA was against the move and the votes aren't going to be there to retain them. The OVC is full. The A-Sun isn't a destination, but it has room. And, as someone has pointed out, the impact on all other UAB teams to drop in competition will hurt. Trading UTEP and Marshall for SC-Upstate and North Florida saves on travel, but takes its toll on any serious recruiting.

[Sycamore62]

I don't think a minor league hurts the P5 conferences. One of the things that gets lost on both sides (schools & players) of the college football makes so much money argument is what the alternative would be if college football wasn't as big as it is. The Tuscaloosa Titans wouldn't fill a stadium like Alabama does because they wouldn't be the team that represents the entire state and draws fans regardless of whether they went to school there or not. The South Bend Sabres wouldn't have the national following that Notre Dame does because they wouldn't appeal to Catholics across the country. If there were a minor league, rather than getting college educations, tutors, training tables, etc. players would be getting paid peanuts and taking buses to games rather than charter flights while hoping to make it to the NFL.

Yes, that was my thought too, I just wondered how people looking to make a profit off of sub-NFL football could exploit the situation and if it would hurt the P5.

Do you want to go to Alabama for free and 48 credits toward a sociology degree or would you like some cash and be coached buy guys from the Patriots' organization.

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

If I have zero interest in school and/or don't really have the grades/test scores for college, then I take the money and go pro out of HS. Like that kid I heard recently on ESPN. "I came to play football not play school!" Or something of that ilk. It works for baseball and ice hockey. The revolving door of one and done kids at KY (MBB) is a friggin joke.

[Redbird Ray]

SIU-E would never...ever happen.


They are public, but in UAB's case they are a non-football school now and have a strong history. That would carry some good weight. NMSU has a history with the MVC. They would be a march harder sell but WSU and UNI would be on board with it, so it might fly if wanted.

Any moves from now on will have WSU and UNI heavily talked too. Loyola really pissed off the WSU administration (and privately the UNI). They were a chicken **** add to keep Illinois State, Evansville, Indiana State, Drake and SIU happy so they didn't have to pay to travel to Belmont, ORU or Denver...yes, I'm serious.

Remember how much of a fit ISUr, ISUb and SIU through about having to go west when XDSUs and USD were added? Same thing happened with the MVC but they got the privates like Evansville and Bradley involved this time to carry MVC weight.

As I said before, if the MVC falls off it's because Illinois State, Evansville, Missouri State, and Bradley/Drake don't step their **** up...not because Creighton isn't here anymore. They've ridden off of WSU/Creighton/UNI coattails for far too long to talk about "the MVC sky is falling"

The are also why the MVC tournament won't leave St Louis for Kansas City. The "Oh no! We'd have to drive more than 3 hours to get to the tournament would bankrupt us and our fans won't go" attitude is going to drive WSU away at the first shot. If/when they do that they ****ed everyone in the conference. That will really piss UNI fans off because we just wanted those ****ers to step their games up and they didn't and that caused the two top national names to **** UNI over because the Illinois schools were bitches about it.

Wow you sure are a ****ing ****. Look, think what you want about the MVC, but despite WSU, Creighton, and UNI being formidable mid-major teams, the fact is, the MVC has been a ONE bid conference for the better part of a decade now. To most people (including those in Bristol that really matter), that gives our league no more identity than the Sun Belt, MAC, Summit, take your pick. Just wait until WSU finds a way out of this **** sandwich of a league.

And btw, I'm glad UNI is off to a good start, but they haven't played anyone of real merit yet (don't cite VT and NU as tourney resume wins, those teams will be lucky to win 15 games this year). ISUr has marginal losses to a Utah State team that is in the tourney on an almost annual basis, a Seton Hall team with one of the top ten recruiting classes in the country, and VCU team ranked 14th nationally. We'll see who needs to step up their game after a few months.

[clenz]

Wow you sure are a ****ing ****. Look, think what you want about the MVC, but despite WSU, Creighton, and UNI being formidable mid-major teams, the fact is, the MVC has been a ONE bid conference for the better part of a decade now. To most people (including those in Bristol that really matter), that gives our league no more identity than the Sun Belt, MAC, Summit, take your pick. Just wait until WSU finds a way out of this **** sandwich of a league.

And btw, I'm glad UNI is off to a good start, but they haven't played anyone of real merit yet (don't cite VT and NU as tourney resume wins, those teams will be lucky to win 15 games this year). ISUr has marginal losses to a Utah State team that is in the tourney on an almost annual basis, a Seton Hall team with one of the top ten recruiting classes in the country, and VCU team ranked 14th nationally. We'll see who needs to step up their game after a few months.
Dude, you're a loose cannon. Take a step back.....

The league is no where near the MAC, Sun Belt, Summit, etc... when it comes to national respect/recognition.....not even close. Not same universe.

So the MVC has had 3 teams that have great national respect, but because the rest of the league hasn't done anything to warrant continued respect the league is a turd sandwich?

YAY...WE LOST TO TEAMS THAT WE SHOULD BEAT IF WE WANT TO IMPROVE OUR NATIONAL RECOGNITION!!!! GO US!

Seriously, using those losses as "talking points" is exactly the reason teams in this league are held back. It's not just ISUr that does it. That is something that too many teams in this league do. You want national respect? Beat those mother ****ers. UNI had a terrible season last year yet still managed 6 top 100 RPI victories...including a win over VCU that just 2 weeks earlier beat Illinois State by 38. Right now UNI has 2 top 100 RPI wins and Northwestern (say what you want) will likely finish right around the 100 RPI mark.

You clearly hate the MVC now that Creighton left because one of the flag carries is gone. Well, time for your team (or someone else) to step up and take over that spot.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

C-USA was against the move and the votes aren't going to be there to retain them. The OVC is full. The A-Sun isn't a destination, but it has room. And, as someone has pointed out, the impact on all other UAB teams to drop in competition will hurt. Trading UTEP and Marshall for SC-Upstate and North Florida saves on travel, but takes its toll on any serious recruiting.

The OVC won't be full if Jacksonville State goes to the Sun Belt.