Potential playoff matchups: bus trips vs. flights

[JayJ79]

The NCAA likes to minimize the expenses it has to pay out for the FCS playoffs where ever possible.
One such way they attempt this is to arrange as many matchups where they visiting team can be bussed in instead of flown.
Last I heard, they set the threshhold at 400 miles for determining if they pay for bus or plane. (if anyone has updated info on this, let me know).

Anyhow, I'm working on putting together a matrix showing all the potential playoff teams at this point, and which other potential teams are within bus distance.

Right now I'm working off of the following list of potential teams (which I pulled off of the bracketology thread). If anyone has any additions that they think I should include, let me know and I'll try and work them in.

Bethune-Cookman
Bryant
Bucknell
CCU
Chattanooga
EKU
EWU
Fordham
ISUb
ISUr
JMU
JSU
Liberty
Montana
Montana St
NAU
NC A&T
NDSU
Richmond
Sacred Heart
San Diego
SDSU
SELA
SFA
SHSU
UNH
UNI
Villanova
W&M
YSU

[Bisonoline]

Its called regionalization. And takes away the meaning of a true playoff.

[Mattymc727]

It would be cool to see a playoff map with color coding on travel. Would be cool to put a visual to the regionalization.

[BisonTru]

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/lMjm0uoURo1LkitqexNDsgQAggVeThI3fZIr4UUChxIeszgL3G 6CVJJucaaTw33keKH97qh7qfHb1YBziwn6K9HCwOweIR_2oX9B 8BuC7coiwkPMFlikCTVwGH7nlsG12A

[tribe_pride]

Remember that the 8 seeds are decided first so regionalization would happen after the seeds are determined

[hebmskebm]

Its called regionalization. And takes away the meaning of a true playoff.

Regionalization=Penny Pinching. The NCAA basically said, 'How can we find a way to get more teams involved in the playoffs but not have it cost us?". This is the result. It's been going on in Divisions II and III for a long time.

[BisonTru]

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/lMjm0uoURo1LkitqexNDsgQAggVeThI3fZIr4UUChxIeszgL3G 6CVJJucaaTw33keKH97qh7qfHb1YBziwn6K9HCwOweIR_2oX9B 8BuC7coiwkPMFlikCTVwGH7nlsG12A

Might be hard to read, but blue boxes are projected seeds, red boxes are projected first round teams, orange boxes are bubble teams.

[FargoBison]

Remember that the 8 seeds are decided first so regionalization would happen after the seeds are determined

That is the one saving grace for the FCS playoff format.

[Mattymc727]

Might be hard to read, but blue boxes are projected seeds, red boxes are projected first round teams, orange boxes are bubble teams.

Awesome! Once the bracket is announced, we should be able to see how much of a factor it is.

[dgtw]

Not that playing them again concerns me, but I would not want an early round match with Chatty.

[RabidRabbit]

If Fordham loses at Army, IMHO, they would drop out as a seed, and UNI likely would become the 8th seed.

From creating a good play-off pairings standpoint, Liberty needs to beat Coastal to get the Big South auto-bid.

There are very few quality teams to choose from after about 20. There are strong possibility that 7 win teams (and 5 losses), especially from the MVFC, will be in the field. Bryant is looking really good if win vs Wagner. Bryant, and moving Fordham into 1st round, opens up some more bus trips. The Big Sky, San Diego, South Dakota St 1st round, all flights.

YSU, even if loss at NDSU, may be a play-off team, there are no other teams even close to YSU's RPI/SOS available. Same is true for any of the MVFC "bubble" teams.

SDSU wouldn't be a bubble team with a win vs South Dakota. From the AGS top 25 form, SDSU is way ahead of any possible competitor outside of MVFC for # of WINS vs top 25. And no bad losses. Slam dunk.

[BisonFan02]

SDSU needs to beat USD for postseason birth.....hopefully they win the pillow fight too. :D

[clenz]

I would rather not be seeded of it meant ndsu in the second game.

Would rather play round 1 and get the 7 seed draw

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[CHIP72]

Northern Iowa has had an excellent season and deserves to make the playoffs (and host a game) if they win their regular season finale, but I have a hard time giving any team with 4 losses a bye.

[clenz]

Northern Iowa has had an excellent season and deserves to make the playoffs (and host a game) if they win their regular season finale, but I have a hard time giving any team with 4 losses a bye.
Who can match their win resume?

Only 2 conference losses (to ranked teams by 8 points total)

Fbs games are ignored unless it's a good win (per a member of the committee)

Now, given a choice of being the 8 seed and getting ndsu in round 2 or a first round game and getting sent to the 7 seed for round 2 and be on that side of the bracket i would take unseeded

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[BisonFan02]

Who can match their win resume?

Only 2 conference losses (to ranked teams by 8 points total)

Fbs games are ignored unless it's a good win (per a member of the committee)

Now, given a choice of being the 8 seed and getting ndsu in round 2 or a first round game and getting sent to the 7 seed for round 2 and be on that side of the bracket i would take unseeded

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What? You guys already beat us once. What's one more win in Fargo? :D

[smilo]

Central Arkansas!
Northwestern State!
(And Cal Poly...)

Should all get a box.


That map makes me think the committee will do all they can not to seed Fordham so that they can host Sacred Heart. It would also likely make some Midwest pairings easier by getting UNI out of the first round equation.

{Also, I had no idea Weber was in Utah. I thought it was somewhere north of Fresno, CA. I guess I kind of associated Chris Webber with Sacramento and did some mind tricks on myself or something. Very embarrassed not to have known that.}

[CHIP72]

{Also, I had no idea Weber was in Utah. I thought it was somewhere north of Fresno, CA. I guess I kind of associated Chris Webber with Sacramento and did some mind tricks on myself or something. Very embarrassed not to have known that.}

If you remembered Harold "The Show" Arceneaux from the 1999 NCAA Tournament, you would have known Weber State was in Ogden, UT. :)

[smilo]

If you remembered Harold "The Show" Arceneaux from the 1999 NCAA Tournament, you would have known Weber State was in Ogden, UT. :)
Well I was 4 and a half years old at that point so I don't have much of a memory before 2003, haha. Won't forget that now.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

I'd really like to see a Montana State-SDSU matchup in Bozeman. This is a "different" Bobcat team imo and the Jackrabbits are much better with Sumner back.....

Fordham against a MVFC team in Da Bronx would be sweet.......

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

If you remembered Harold "The Show" Arceneaux from the 1999 NCAA Tournament, you would have known Weber State was in Ogden, UT. :)

I remember that game! It was the final game of the night on CBS. Took UNC down basically by himself.....

[BisonTru]

This is how the committee matched up the teams last year. Red - First Round, Blue - Second Round.
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/3tt5oDLfdxhkvhWx7UglGaKkgGypx0wUmvwHT7nrNmogVxu7eI 2ErR1ZnfwyeodZjkbvXYp_MLxGGEcWu1DHkYMHpaYWN0xzkG0F-soacxfakLVGY9ImKhmWnOuJr8I6cA

[walliver]

This is how the committee matched up the teams last year. Red - First Round, Blue - Second Round.
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/3tt5oDLfdxhkvhWx7UglGaKkgGypx0wUmvwHT7nrNmogVxu7eI 2ErR1ZnfwyeodZjkbvXYp_MLxGGEcWu1DHkYMHpaYWN0xzkG0F-soacxfakLVGY9ImKhmWnOuJr8I6cA


Apparently South Carolina is in the upper mid-west. I wonder if Citdog has discovered this.

[Tealblood]

Last year the week following our trip to Montana we went to NDSU

[smilo]

20052
This seems like the ideal situation to minimize travel. A couple long trips in there, but you can't avoid them all. (That would be sending Richmond/A+T to NDSU btw. Liberty gets to stay local if they beat William & Mary)
Feel free to replace UCA with SHSU or NWST/SFA winner. I guess NAU too possibly, but goodness, I hope not.

Idaho St, Bucknell, Bryant, Bethune, and Charleston Southern could throw a wrench into things. Counting on the Bobcats winning too.

Edit: Eh, I used the small jpg, but you should be able to at least tell the distance from the lines. Some are obvious though.

Here's the matchups:
Richmond/A+T-->NDSU (2nd round long distance)
SDSU/Bobcats-->EWU (2 somewhat long distances)
San Diego/UCA-->UNI (1st round very long distance; 2nd round sort of)
Youngstown/JMU-->Villanova
SHU/Fordham-->UNH
W&M/Liberty-->CCU
UTC/SELA-->JSU
ISU-b/EKU-->ISU-r

[JayJ79]

I would rather not be seeded of it meant ndsu in the second game.

Would rather play round 1 and get the 7 seed draw

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the selection committee takes requests???

[R.A.]

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/lMjm0uoURo1LkitqexNDsgQAggVeThI3fZIr4UUChxIeszgL3G 6CVJJucaaTw33keKH97qh7qfHb1YBziwn6K9HCwOweIR_2oX9B 8BuC7coiwkPMFlikCTVwGH7nlsG12A
This map is very detailed.

Savannah Stafe and North Carolina Central, are now in the MEAC.

Winston Salem State is now a DII in the CIAA.

I like this map.

[smilo]

This map is very detailed.

Savannah Stafe and North Carolina Central, are now in the MEAC.

Winston Salem State is now a DII in the CIAA.

I like this map.

I think my favorite part was Northeastern and UMASS. That state direly needs a reinfusion. Sad those teams are gone.

[JayJ79]

Of the 8 first round games, 5 are "bus trip" games (road team less than 400 miles away)

Sacred Heart @ Fordham - 50 miles
Liberty @ JMU - 102 miles
Morgan St @ Richmond - 158 miles
Indiana St @ EKU - 287 miles
SELA @ SHSU - 348 miles

and for the remaining 3 games (SFA@UNI, USD@Montana, SDSU@Montana St), none of the 6 participants had any potential opponents (non-seeded playoff teams not on their conference schedule this season) within 400 miles



and for the 8 second round games, 3 of them are guaranteed to be "bus trip" games

UNH vs. Fordham (262 mi) or Sacred Heart (214 mi)
Chattanooga vs. EKU (256 mi) or Indiana St (392 mi)
Villanova vs. JMU (270 mi) or Liberty (323 mi)

and 4 have potential "bus trip" matchups

Illinois St vs. UNI (278 mi) or SFA
EWU vs. Montana (215 mi) or San Diego
CCU vs. Richmond (336 mi) or Morgan St
NDSU vs. SDSU (191 mi) or Montana St

with neither SELA or SHSU (nor SFA, San Diego, or Montana St) being within 400 miles of any of the seeded teams. Morgan St is only 98 miles from Villanova, but Nova is already guaranteed a "bus trip" matchup, and besides, what's the likelihood of Morgan St getting by Richmond?


I'd say that "regionalization" and limiting the amount of airfare that the NCAA had to pay for definitely played a big factor in the bracket

[lionsrking2]

Of the 8 first round games, 5 are "bus trip" games (road team less than 400 miles away)

Sacred Heart @ Fordham - 50 miles
Liberty @ JMU - 102 miles
Morgan St @ Richmond - 158 miles
Indiana St @ EKU - 287 miles
SELA @ SHSU - 348 miles

and for the remaining 3 games (SFA@UNI, USD@Montana, SDSU@Montana St), none of the 6 participants had any potential opponents (non-seeded playoff teams not on their conference schedule this season) within 400 miles



and for the 8 second round games, 3 of them are guaranteed to be "bus trip" games

UNH vs. Fordham (262 mi) or Sacred Heart (214 mi)
Chattanooga vs. EKU (256 mi) or Indiana St (392 mi)
Villanova vs. JMU (270 mi) or Liberty (323 mi)

and 4 have potential "bus trip" matchups

Illinois St vs. UNI (278 mi) or SFA
EWU vs. Montana (215 mi) or San Diego
CCU vs. Richmond (336 mi) or Morgan St
NDSU vs. SDSU (191 mi) or Montana St

with neither SELA or SHSU (nor SFA, San Diego, or Montana St) being within 400 miles of any of the seeded teams. Morgan St is only 98 miles from Villanova, but Nova is already guaranteed a "bus trip" matchup, and besides, what's the likelihood of Morgan St getting by Richmond?


I'd say that "regionalization" and limiting the amount of airfare that the NCAA had to pay for definitely played a big factor in the bracket

Regionalization is a joke and needs to stop. It's 2014. We all know what we're getting into when we choose to play Division I football. A few extra thousand dollars isn't going to crush anyone's budget. If it is an issue, declare ahead of time and don't participate in the playoffs.

[MacThor]

Regionalization happens in every sport.

[Milktruck74]

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/lMjm0uoURo1LkitqexNDsgQAggVeThI3fZIr4UUChxIeszgL3G 6CVJJucaaTw33keKH97qh7qfHb1YBziwn6K9HCwOweIR_2oX9B 8BuC7coiwkPMFlikCTVwGH7nlsG12A

As I look at this map, I keep asking Why is the NC in Frisco???? Not that it should be in Chattanooga, but NC/VA are much more centrally located to most of the FCS schools...Especially when the MVFC comes back into line with the rest of the conferences and we once again spread the love of the finals around.

[lionsrking2]

Regionalization happens in every sport.

Not in basketball.

[Hammerhead]

With 8 seeded teams, I don't have a problem with regionalizing the rest of the field, assuming seeding isn't influenced by geography to set up potential bus trips like bumping a #7 seed down to #8 so they would only have a bus trip to the #1 seed.

[hebmskebm]

Looks like the NCAA will only have to fit the bill for one flight in the second round (SHSU vs. JSU) If Southeastern La. had won, they wouldn't have had to pay for any.

[Houndawg]

As I look at this map, I keep asking Why is the NC in Frisco???? Not that it should be in Chattanooga, but NC/VA are much more centrally located to most of the FCS schools...Especially when the MVFC comes back into line with the rest of the conferences and we once again spread the love of the finals around.

SIU would be the most centrally located new facility for FCS nationxthumbsupx

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

With 8 seeded teams, I don't have a problem with regionalizing the rest of the field, assuming seeding isn't influenced by geography to set up potential bus trips like bumping a #7 seed down to #8 so they would only have a bus trip to the #1 seed.


Regionalization does suck.

NDSU is the #2 seed and they get to play SDSU now and they are ranked in the top 15. NDSU should be playing a SH/Fordham winner or a Richmond/Morgan State winner type game.

[JayJ79]

Looks like the NCAA will only have to fit the bill for one flight in the second round (SHSU vs. JSU) If Southeastern La. had won, they wouldn't have had to pay for any.

the distance between SELA and JSU is 432 miles

[hebmskebm]

the distance between SELA and JSU is 432 miles

I believe the bus trip limit is 500 miles.

[clenz]

I believe the bus trip limit is 500 miles.
Must have changed then…

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[hebmskebm]

Must have changed then…

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Ah I see my mistake, it's 400 for FCS but 500 for DII and DIII (I follow DIII and its a large point of consternation).

[Sycamore62]

Terre haute to chatty is 391. Maybe we could argue that the route a bus has to take is 400

[ace93]

Regionalization does suck.

NDSU is the #2 seed and they get to play SDSU now and they are ranked in the top 15. NDSU should be playing a SH/Fordham winner or a Richmond/Morgan State winner type game.

I agree regionalization is flawed, but so is your argument unless you are arguing that Fordham should not have to go UNH. You go by rankings and Fordham is ranked ahead of SDSU so them having to go to the #1 is flawed. With Richmond ranked behined SDSU you could argue that they might belong going to NDSU but they are #2, so it is UNH that really has the better argument if we are going by rankings.

Of course people will say that FU should not be ranked that high, so if going by that argument then them going to UNH is right since UNH is #1.

[Sycamore62]

I think having a bye week is a bigger flaw

[JayJ79]

I think having a bye week is a bigger flaw

there are only bye weeks involved b/c the playoffs were expanded to accomadate more AQ spots.
and if they had left it at 16 teams, Indiana State would have about 38 bye weeks cuz they would have never made the 16-team field this year (or the 20-team field for that matter)

[Sycamore62]

there are only bye weeks involved b/c the playoffs were expanded to accomadate more AQ spots.
and if they had left it at 16 teams, Indiana State would have about 38 bye weeks cuz they would have never made the 16-team field this year (or the 20-team field for that matter)

I understand WHY there are bye weeks. They also could have expanded to 32 teams. I wasn't saying it was unfair because of ISUb's situation. I'd rather play in a tough bracket draw than play a team expected to be superior on 2 weeks rest.

[JayJ79]

I understand WHY there are bye weeks. They also could have expanded to 32 teams. I wasn't saying it was unfair because of ISUb's situation. I'd rather play in a tough bracket draw than play a team expected to be superior on 2 weeks rest.

expanding to 32 would be ridiculous. I could MAYBE see it if both the Ivies and the SWAC got on board, but I don't see that happening anyway. I don't mind the 24 team format. it allows inclusion of all the conference AQs and plenty of at-large bids, and rewards the teams with better regular season results with a week off.
sure, there are still bubble teams that get left out, but that's the case no matter how many teams are in. And there is always debate on who deserves seeding, but that would be the case even with no byes.