AGS Poll Results - Week 9 - 2014

[AGSPoll]

Results for 10/27/2014 AGS Poll:



This Week's Ranking:
Team:
Total Points
First Place Votes


1
North Dakota State Bison
1947
75


2
Villanova Wildcats
1846
2


3
New Hampshire Wildcats
1770
1


4
Coastal Carolina Chanticleers
1668



5
Illinois State Redbirds
1661



6
Jacksonville State Gamecocks
1582



7
Eastern Washington Eagles
1339



8
Richmond Spiders
1331



9
Youngstown State Penguins
1221



10
Montana State Bobcats
1220



11
Fordham Rams
1133



12
McNeese State Cowboys
998



13
Eastern Kentucky Colonels
883



14
Indiana State Sycamores
809



15
Montana Grizzlies
732



16
Southeastern Louisiana Lions
719



17
South Dakota State Jackrabbits
718



18
Chattanooga Mocs
694



19
William & Mary Tribe
690



20
Liberty Flames
403



21
Harvard Crimson
376



22
Bryant Bulldogs
244



23
Northern Iowa Panthers
188



24
Cal Poly Mustangs
164



25
Southern Illinois Salukis
162
















Most Significant Win:





Youngstown State Penguins











Most Significant Loss:





Eastern Washington Eagles











ORV:




26
Bethune-Cookman Wildcats
127



27
Albany Great Danes
101



28
James Madison Dukes
99



29
Stephen F. Austin Lumberjacks
83



30
Western Carolina Catamounts
77



31
Missouri State Bears
73



32
Idaho State Bengals
65



33
Northern Arizona Lumberjacks
56



34T
Bucknell Bison
38



34T
Presbyterian Blue Hose
38



36
North Carolina A&T Aggies
32



37
Central Arkansas Bears
30



38
Dartmouth Big Green
13



39
Yale Bulldogs
11



40
Northwestern State Demons
4

[Lehigh Football Nation]

EWU still over Montana State?

[TypicalTribe]

1: North Dakota State Bison
2: Villanova Wildcats
3: New Hampshire Wildcats
4: Illinois State Redbirds
5: Jacksonville State Gamecocks
6: Youngstown State Penguins
7: Montana State Bobcats
8: Coastal Carolina Chanticleers
9: Eastern Washington Eagles
10: Richmond Spiders
11: Eastern Kentucky Colonels
12: Fordham Rams
13: Indiana State Sycamores
14: Chattanooga Mocs
15: McNeese State Cowboys
16: Southeastern Louisiana Lions
17: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
18: Montana Grizzlies
19: William & Mary Tribe
20: Harvard Crimson
21: Liberty Flames
22: Cal Poly Mustangs
23: Stephen F. Austin Lumberjacks
24: Bryant Bulldogs
25: Northern Arizona Lumberjacks

Can't argue with much. Had SFA and NAU in there after the big wins.

[citdog]

1: North Dakota State Bison
2: Villanova Wildcats
3: New Hampshire Wildcats
4: Coastal Carolina Chanticleers
5: Illinois State Redbirds
6: Jacksonville State Gamecocks
7: Richmond Spiders
8: Montana State Bobcats
9: McNeese State Cowboys
10: Youngstown State Penguins
11: Eastern Washington Eagles
12: Eastern Kentucky Colonels
13: Chattanooga Mocs
14: Montana Grizzlies
15: Indiana State Sycamores
16: Fordham Rams
17: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
18: William & Mary Tribe
19: Western Carolina Catamounts
20: Southeastern Louisiana Lions
21: Southern Illinois Salukis
22: Presbyterian Blue Hose
23: Northern Iowa Panthers
24: Liberty Flames
25: Idaho State Bengals

[BisonFan02]

1: North Dakota State Bison
2: Villanova Wildcats
3: New Hampshire Wildcats
4: Illinois State Redbirds
5: Coastal Carolina Chanticleers
6: Jacksonville State Gamecocks
7: Richmond Spiders
8: Montana State Bobcats
9: Youngstown State Penguins
10: William & Mary Tribe
11: Eastern Washington Eagles
12: Fordham Rams
13: Indiana State Sycamores
14: Chattanooga Mocs
15: Eastern Kentucky Colonels
16: McNeese State Cowboys
17: Montana Grizzlies
18: Southeastern Louisiana Lions
19: Central Arkansas Bears
20: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
21: Liberty Flames
22: Cal Poly Mustangs
23: Bryant Bulldogs
24: Harvard Crimson
25: Idaho State Bengals

[Grizalltheway]

EWU still over Montana State?

Both have 2 losses. EWU lost by 6 to UW, MSU lost by 27 to Ark. State. And of course EWU has the head-to-head.

[dgreco]

1: North Dakota State Bison
2: Villanova Wildcats
3: New Hampshire Wildcats
4: Coastal Carolina Chanticleers
5: Illinois State Redbirds
6: Jacksonville State Gamecocks
7: Richmond Spiders
8: Montana State Bobcats
9: McNeese State Cowboys
10: Youngstown State Penguins
11: Eastern Washington Eagles
12: Eastern Kentucky Colonels
13: Chattanooga Mocs
14: Montana Grizzlies
15: Indiana State Sycamores
16: Fordham Rams
17: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
18: William & Mary Tribe
19: Western Carolina Catamounts
20: Southeastern Louisiana Lions
21: Southern Illinois Salukis
22: Presbyterian Blue Hose
23: Northern Iowa Panthers
24: Liberty Flames
25: Idaho State Bengals

What does Bryant have to do to get on your ballot?

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Both have 2 losses. EWU lost by 6 to UW, MSU lost by 27 to Ark. State. And of course EWU has the head-to-head.

Didn't really understand his complaint either?

[knucklehead]

1: North Dakota State Bison
2: Villanova Wildcats
3: New Hampshire Wildcats
4: Coastal Carolina Chanticleers
5: Illinois State Redbirds
6: Jacksonville State Gamecocks
7: Richmond Spiders
8: Montana State Bobcats
9: McNeese State Cowboys
10: Youngstown State Penguins
11: Eastern Washington Eagles
12: Eastern Kentucky Colonels
13: Chattanooga Mocs
14: Montana Grizzlies
15: Indiana State Sycamores
16: Fordham Rams
17: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
18: William & Mary Tribe
19: Western Carolina Catamounts
20: Southeastern Louisiana Lions
21: Southern Illinois Salukis
22: Presbyterian Blue Hose
23: Northern Iowa Panthers
24: Liberty Flames
25: Idaho State Bengals


Who has Presby beat to warrant (in your mind) being in? I ask because I spent a lot of time looking at it, and I just didn't see it.

[Professor Chaos]

EWU still over Montana State?
They did beat them head to head in Bozeman. It shouldn't be that shocking.

On an unrelated note I don't understand why CCU is still ranked above Illinois St. I realize it's just 7 points but look at each team's schedule. Illinois St has wins over the number 14, 17, and 31 teams in the current poll but CCU's best win is over a team tied for 33rd.

[MTfan4life]

EWU still over Montana State?

They both have 1 FCS loss and 1 FBS loss. One team didn't have their best player when they lost. That same team beat the other on the other's home field. Are you saying Montana State should temporarily be ranked ahead of Eastern while Vernon Adams heals or does losing with a major injury suddenly make them worse than a team they've already beaten? Eastern's best win is a road win over a team who is currently ranked in the top 10. Montana State's best win is a home win over a team receiving votes. What more do you need?

[citdog]

What does Bryant have to do to get on your ballot?

PLAY somebody.

[citdog]

Who has Presby beat to warrant (in your mind) being in? I ask because I spent a lot of time looking at it, and I just didn't see it.

Furman, WCU, CSU, and Monmouth. All better wins than appy st.

[knucklehead]

Furman, WCU, CSU, and Monmouth. All better wins than appy st.
OK, got it. Logic and reasoning out of order. Haha.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

They both have 1 FCS loss and 1 FBS loss. One team didn't have their best player when they lost. That same team beat the other on the other's home field. Are you saying Montana State should temporarily be ranked ahead of Eastern while Vernon Adams heals or does losing with a major injury suddenly make them worse than a team they've already beaten? Eastern's best win is a road win over a team who is currently ranked in the top 10. Montana State's best win is a home win over a team receiving votes. What more do you need?

I think you could go either way with it, but as of the teams of this instant, with Adams out, I would put MSU over EWU.

[BEAR]

SELA sure proved without Bennett they are beatable.

Not sure still on McNeese.

SFA playing some strong ball but they lost to UCA who isn't in the top 25.

UCA has ACU, Lamar, and Sam left.

5 way tie for first in the SLC with no clear standout team. Teams are winning and losing in odd ways. SELA loses to SFA without Bennett in the first half. SFA loses to UCA. UCA loses to SELA. It goes on and on..

Battle of the Piney Woods will clear it up this weekend.

But I'd find it hard to rank any of the SLC teams with the way they've all played this year. Maybe a healthy Bennett with SELA might get them in the top 25. SFA looks strong where they are in the poll. UCA about the same but coming on strong. Mcneese is just a mystery.

[dewey]

Here is my poll.

1: North Dakota State Bison
2: Villanova Wildcats
3: New Hampshire Wildcats
4: Illinois State Redbirds
5: Coastal Carolina Chanticleers
6: Jacksonville State Gamecocks
7: Eastern Washington Eagles
8: Richmond Spiders
9: Montana State Bobcats
10: Youngstown State Penguins
11: Eastern Kentucky Colonels
12: McNeese State Cowboys
13: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
14: Montana Grizzlies
15: Fordham Rams
16: Indiana State Sycamores
17: Southeastern Louisiana Lions
18: Chattanooga Mocs
19: William & Mary Tribe
20: Liberty Flames
21: Albany Great Danes
22: Northern Iowa Panthers
23: James Madison Dukes
24: Cal Poly Mustangs
25: Western Carolina Catamounts

Most significant win
Cal Poly

Most significant loss
Eastern Washington

Dewey

[dewey]

They both have 1 FCS loss and 1 FBS loss. One team didn't have their best player when they lost. That same team beat the other on the other's home field. Are you saying Montana State should temporarily be ranked ahead of Eastern while Vernon Adams heals or does losing with a major injury suddenly make them worse than a team they've already beaten? Eastern's best win is a road win over a team who is currently ranked in the top 10. Montana State's best win is a home win over a team receiving votes. What more do you need?

I agree with this. I could also understand the knock on EWU while Vernon Adams is out but they are still winning (minus the NAU game).

Dewey

[dewey]

On an unrelated note I don't understand why CCU is still ranked above Illinois St. I realize it's just 7 points but look at each team's schedule. Illinois St has wins over the number 14, 17, and 31 teams in the current poll but CCU's best win is over a team tied for 33rd.

I also don't understand. Anyone want to explain their thinking?

I also understand that my poll is not perfect.

Dewey

[clawman]

I don't understand why Idaho State is so overlooked/under rated by pollsters. They have been dominating teams in the tough Big Sky, winning by 20+ most every game.

[dewey]

I don't understand why Idaho State is so overlooked/under rated by pollsters. They have been dominating teams in the tough Big Sky, winning by 20+ most every game.

It came down to Western Carolina and Idaho State for the last spot in my poll. Both Western Carolina and Idaho State have great opportunites the next few weeks to get some impressive wins.


2014 Idaho State Bengals Schedule



DATE

OPPONENT

RESULT/TIME

RECORD/TICKETS



Thu, Aug 28




@
Utah (http://espn.go.com/college-football/team/_/id/254/utah-utes)





L
56-14 (http://www.anygivensaturday.com/ncf/recap?id=400548256)


0-1 (0-0)



Sat, Sept 6




@
Utah State (http://espn.go.com/college-football/team/_/id/328/utah-state-aggies)





L
40-20 (http://www.anygivensaturday.com/ncf/recap?id=400548188)


0-2 (0-0)



Sat, Sept 13




vs
Chadron St (http://espn.go.com/college-football/team/_/id/2123/chadron-state-eagles)





W
39-34 (http://www.anygivensaturday.com/ncf/recap?id=400553325)


1-2 (0-0)



Sat, Sept 27




vs
Sacramento St (http://espn.go.com/college-football/team/_/id/16/sacramento-state-hornets)





W
44-24 (http://www.anygivensaturday.com/ncf/recap?id=400553326)


2-2 (1-0)



Sat, Oct 4




@
E Washington (http://espn.go.com/college-football/team/_/id/331/eastern-washington-eagles)





L
56-53 (http://www.anygivensaturday.com/ncf/recap?id=400553318)


2-3 (1-1)



Sat, Oct 11




vs
Simon Fraser (http://espn.go.com/college-football/team/_/id/2829/simon-fraser-clansmen)





W
66-14 (http://www.anygivensaturday.com/ncf/recap?id=400553327)


3-3 (1-1)



Sat, Oct 18




vs
Southern Utah (http://espn.go.com/college-football/team/_/id/253/southern-utah-thunderbirds)





W
56-28 (http://www.anygivensaturday.com/ncf/recap?id=400553328)


4-3 (2-1)



Sat, Oct 25




@
N Colorado (http://espn.go.com/college-football/team/_/id/2458/northern-colorado-bears)





W
46-12 (http://www.anygivensaturday.com/ncf/recap?id=400553329)


5-3 (3-1)



Sat, Nov 1




@
Portland State (http://espn.go.com/college-football/team/_/id/2502/portland-state-vikings)


7:35 PM ET

Buy on StubHub (http://www.stubhub.com/ncaa-football-tickets?gcid=C12289x461&keyword=ESPN+Portland+State+Vikings+20141101)



Sat, Nov 8




vs
Cal Poly (http://espn.go.com/college-football/team/_/id/13/cal-poly-mustangs)


4:35 PM ET

Buy on StubHub (http://www.stubhub.com/ncaa-football-tickets?gcid=C12289x461&keyword=ESPN+Idaho+State+Bengals+20141108)



Sat, Nov 15




@
Montana State (http://espn.go.com/college-football/team/_/id/147/montana-state-bobcats)


TBD

Buy on StubHub (http://www.stubhub.com/ncaa-football-tickets?gcid=C12289x461&keyword=ESPN+Montana+State+Bobcats+20141115)



Sat, Nov 22




vs
Weber State (http://espn.go.com/college-football/team/_/id/2692/weber-state-wildcats)


4:30 PM ET

Buy on StubHub (http://www.stubhub.com/ncaa-football-tickets?gcid=C12289x461&keyword=ESPN+Idaho+State+Bengals+20141122)

[clenz]

I don't understand why Idaho State is so overlooked/under rated by pollsters. They have been dominating teams in the tough Big Sky, winning by 20+ most every game.
They are 3-3 in FCS games with wins over Sac State 4-4 (1-3), SUU 2-7 (2-3) and UNC 2-6 (1-4)...

So....

[MTfan4life]

They are 3-3 in FCS games with wins over Sac State 4-4 (1-3), SUU 2-7 (2-3) and UNC 2-6 (1-4)...

So....

Since when did Utah and Utah State become FCS and why are they not ranked?!?

[dewey]

They are 3-3 in FCS games with wins over Sac State 4-4 (1-3), SUU 2-7 (2-3) and UNC 2-6 (1-4)...

So....

I think you meant they are 3-1 in FCS games.
with the wins you mentioned above and a loss to Eastern Washington.

Dewey

[Professor Chaos]

I don't understand why Idaho State is so overlooked/under rated by pollsters. They have been dominating teams in the tough Big Sky, winning by 20+ most every game.
Arguments about the BSC as a whole aside ISU's schedule has been anything but "tough". Two games against D2 schools so they're 3-3 against D1 competition with their best win being against 3-4 (against D1 competition) Sacramento St. Like it or not ISU's reputation does play a role because I won't give them the benefit of the doubt for playing tough teams close and blowing out patsies until they beat a quality team. IMO, the opportunity for quality wins will come later in their schedule against Cal Poly and Montana St. FWIW, I have them on the cusp of the top 25 but they're not there yet IMO.

[clenz]

I think you meant they are 3-1 in FCS games.
with the wins you mentioned above and a loss to Eastern Washington.

Dewey
mean 3-3 in D1 games

Also...we are in week 10 and they have 3 D1 wins

Think about that.

We are in game week 10, they have 3 D1 wins and people want them ranked.


Not just that...

3 D1 wins 10 weeks into the season with no wins against a team with a winning record against D1 teams

Supe, when was the last time someone was 75% of the way through the seasons and ranked with just 3 d1 wins?

[ursus arctos horribilis]

They are 3-3 in FCS games with wins over Sac State 4-4 (1-3), SUU 2-7 (2-3) and UNC 2-6 (1-4)...

So....

I'm not sure a UNI guy should be using this one clenzy...I mean considering the reasoning the last few years and all.

[smilo]

1. NDSU
2. Villanova
3. Illinois St
4. New Hampshire
5. Coastal Carolina
6. Jacksonville St.
7. Eastern Washington
8. Richmond
9. Indiana St
10. Youngstown St
11. South Dakota St
12. William & Mary
13. Montana St
14. Northern Iowa
15. Southern Illinois
16. Fordham
17. Liberty
18. Missouri St (H2H win over C. Ark keeps them ahead, but they are dropping)
19. Central Arkansas
20. McNeese St
21. SELA
22. Chatty
23. Northwestern St (dropping)
24. Eastern Kentucky
25. Montana

Next 15: SHSU; WIU; Bryant; Harvard; NAU; JMU; Idaho St; Cal Poly; SFA; SC St.; Yale; WCU; Bethune; Bucknell; Albany

Only other relevant team w/ regard to playoff: NCAT #45

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

Didn't really understand his complaint either?

Then explain how NAU and Cal Poly are not ranked or ahead of the teams they beat? Unranked teams beat ranked teams they should fall more than 5 or 6 spots..............at a minimum half of the 25.

[Pitz]

Can someone explain to me how Montana deserves to be ranked above Cal Poly? Two 5-3 teams. Neither team has any outstanding win or horrendous loss...just the obvious head-to-head result that should tip the scales, yet doesn't.

[clawman]

They are 3-3 in FCS games with wins over Sac State 4-4 (1-3), SUU 2-7 (2-3) and UNC 2-6 (1-4)...

So....

Ya, that makes sense, from having played them I see how tough they will be. They are very good and well coached. Kramer has that program on the rise. I just hope we do not have to meet them in the playoffs.

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

Can someone explain to me how Montana deserves to be ranked above Cal Poly? Two 5-3 teams. Neither team has any outstanding win or horrendous loss...just the obvious head-to-head result that should tip the scales, yet doesn't.
Agreed and the way CP beat our ass it should be a no brainer. This "tradition" BS is why polls suck a gigantic cock like substance....................what you did least year or 10 years ago should have zero *****ing effect on a poll in 2014.

[MTfan4life]

mean 3-3 in D1 games

Also...we are in week 10 and they have 3 D1 wins

Think about that.

We are in game week 10, they have 3 D1 wins and people want them ranked.


Not just that...

3 D1 wins 10 weeks into the season with no wins against a team with a winning record against D1 teams

Supe, when was the last time someone was 75% of the way through the seasons and ranked with just 3 d1 wins?

I understand your argument. However, to contradict it, UNI has just 4 wins and we are in week 10. And they haven't even beaten a .500 team!! I voted for UNI, just saying when you break it down this way, it doesn't always work. Are you saying that having 3 wins at this point should be laughed at, but 4 wins is totally justifiable?

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Then explain how NAU and Cal Poly are not ranked or ahead of the teams they beat? Unranked teams beat ranked teams they should fall more than 5 or 6 spots..............at a minimum half of the 25.

This has been explained many, many times so I won't educate you on it again Alf.

It would be a fool that took one game as the whole story but you know...

FWIW, I don't have UM in my poll at all and Cal Poly & NAU are in. Still no reason whatsoever at this point that a compelling argument can be made for MSU above EWU and the fact that you didn't make one means you don't have one either.

[dewey]

Can someone explain to me how Montana deserves to be ranked above Cal Poly? Two 5-3 teams. Neither team has any outstanding win or horrendous loss...just the obvious head-to-head result that should tip the scales, yet doesn't.

I will explain my thought process.

MT lost to FCS #1 NDSU in Fargo by 12 points, at Wyoming by 5 and then lost to Cal Poly by 20 on the road
Cal Poly lost to New Mexico State by 18, South Dakota State (44-18) and they lost to Northern Arizona.

My thought was MT was better against Wyoming than Cal Poly against NMSU. Losing by 12 to NDSU is better than losing 44-18 to SDSU.

Right or wrong that was my thinking.

Dewey

[Sycamore62]

Agreed and the way CP beat our ass it should be a no brainer. This "tradition" BS is why polls suck a gigantic cock like substance....................what you did least year or 10 years ago should have zero *****ing effect on a poll in 2014.

Goes both ways

[MTfan4life]

I will explain my thought process.

MT lost to FCS #1 NDSU in Fargo by 12 points, at Wyoming by 5 and then lost to Cal Poly by 20 on the road
Cal Poly lost to New Mexico State by 18, South Dakota State (44-18) and they lost to Northern Arizona.

My thought was MT was better against Wyoming than Cal Poly against NMSU. Losing by 12 to NDSU is better than losing 44-18 to SDSU.

Right or wrong that was my thinking.

Dewey

My thought process was that at the point of those two early season losses, Cal Poly was about a month removed from having 5 players taken off to jail, including their running back who had a chance to make an all-american team and was their reigning team MVP. They didn't lose them to graduation having spring and summer ball to recover. They lost them right before school started. They are definitely a much different team right now than they were in September.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Agreed and the way CP beat our ass it should be a no brainer. This "tradition" BS is why polls suck a gigantic cock like substance....................what you did least year or 10 years ago should have zero *****ing effect on a poll in 2014.

It's not necessarily about that it has more to not knee jerking around and over or undervaluing one game. That is what most poll voters will do after voting for years and seeing how things normally work out. It comes from experience.

AS I said though. It's pretty clear to me that CP is better than UM right now so they were in over us on my ballot but I can see why others don't just auto eject a long time proven performer that they expect more out of.

They should not expect more out of UM but I can see why they would is all I'm saying. BTW, remember what forum this is on please.

[JMUNJ08]

Here is mine for this week. Such a jumbled mess of teams with 3 L's so really looked a lot at who they beat and who they have lost to. Enjoy!

1: North Dakota State Bison
2: Villanova Wildcats
3: New Hampshire Wildcats
4: Illinois State Redbirds
5: Coastal Carolina Chanticleers
6: Youngstown State Penguins
7: Richmond Spiders
8: Eastern Washington Eagles
9: Jacksonville State Gamecocks
10: Montana State Bobcats
11: McNeese State Cowboys
12: Indiana State Sycamores
13: Fordham Rams
14: Eastern Kentucky Colonels
15: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
16: Southeastern Louisiana Lions
17: William & Mary Tribe
18: Cal Poly Mustangs
19: Bryant Bulldogs
20: Chattanooga Mocs
21: Stephen F. Austin Lumberjacks
22: Liberty Flames
23: James Madison Dukes
24: Montana Grizzlies
25: Albany Great Danes

[ursus arctos horribilis]

I will explain my thought process.

MT lost to FCS #1 NDSU in Fargo by 12 points, at Wyoming by 5 and then lost to Cal Poly by 20 on the road
Cal Poly lost to New Mexico State by 18, South Dakota State (44-18) and they lost to Northern Arizona.

My thought was MT was better against Wyoming than Cal Poly against NMSU. Losing by 12 to NDSU is better than losing 44-18 to SDSU.

Right or wrong that was my thinking.

Dewey

This a good example of what I was just talking about. You are a fool to take one game as the story normally but you can trust me dewey this time that one game is the real story brother. Right now CP is a better team than UM. Any team that can run the ball will flat out eat our lunch.

[Grizalltheway]

This a good example of what I was just talking about. You are a fool to take one game as the story normally but you can trust me dewey this time that one game is the real story brother. Right now CP is a better team than UM. Any team that can run the ball will flat out eat our lunch.

NDSU can run the ball, and we managed to hold them to a respectable point total. Not making excuses for how badly the defense got run over, but AFAIK we aren't facing any more triple option teams this year, so I think they'll be able to regroup and finish strong.

[JMUNJ08]

Can someone explain to me how Montana deserves to be ranked above Cal Poly? Two 5-3 teams. Neither team has any outstanding win or horrendous loss...just the obvious head-to-head result that should tip the scales, yet doesn't.

Worked just fine in mine! If you look at who they BEAT, Cal Poly has the H2H which is also the best quality W as well amongst them all. A team with tons of quality losses just means they can't beat the better teams. Otherwise, W. Illinois & South Dakota could be in the at large pool playing all the big boys in the MVFC... (I'm looking at you too UNI!!!)

[Professor Chaos]

NDSU can run the ball, and we managed to hold them to a respectable point total. Not making excuses for how badly the defense got run over, but AFAIK we aren't facing any more triple option teams this year, so I think they'll be able to regroup and finish strong.
Either Montana's red zone defense was worse against Cal Poly or Cal Poly's red zone offense is just much better than NDSU's (which is very possible). Montana gave up a comparable amount of yards to both but Cal Poly got 6 TD and 0 FG whereas NDSU had 1 TD and 5 FGs.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

NDSU can run the ball, and we managed to hold them to a respectable point total. Not making excuses for how badly the defense got run over, but AFAIK we aren't facing any more triple option teams this year, so I think they'll be able to regroup and finish strong.

Hope you are right but you are not unfortunately. Maybe finish strong is different for you and I though? We drop one more and we rightfully wouldn't make the playoffs and that is not finishing strong to me.

That respectable point total thing doesn't mean a thing to me. NDSU stomped us in every other way so I don't take a great deal of comfort in our abilities there. BTW I sadi rushing team not triple option. After the game against Davis I knew we are big trouble the rest of the way and was not comforted at all by the win. We aren't good and don't have to time get as good as we would need to be to make it very far this year.

Hope I'm wrong man but we ain't overcoming our problems and our offense helping out our defense a little is just flat gonna be the end of this season.

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

It's not necessarily about that it has more to not knee jerking around and over or undervaluing one game. That is what most poll voters will do after voting for years and seeing how things normally work out. It comes from experience.

AS I said though. It's pretty clear to me that CP is better than UM right now so they were in over us on my ballot but I can see why others don't just auto eject a long time proven performer that they expect more out of.

They should not expect more out of UM but I can see why they would is all I'm saying. BTW, remember what forum this is on please.

This is why I do not do polls very often, really no point when its a popularity contest.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Either Montana's red zone defense was worse against Cal Poly or Cal Poly's red zone offense is just much better than NDSU's (which is very possible). Montana gave up a comparable amount of yards to both but Cal Poly got 6 TD and 0 FG whereas NDSU had 1 TD and 5 FGs.

CP did some long range scoring but they did some red zone as well.

[robsnotes4u]

Can someone explain to me how Montana deserves to be ranked above Cal Poly? Two 5-3 teams. Neither team has any outstanding win or horrendous loss...just the obvious head-to-head result that should tip the scales, yet doesn't.

One thing you can't take out of a human poll is how reputation (history), or perceived reputation (history), plays into the poll. Proven here.

Arguments about the BSC as a whole aside ISU's schedule has been anything but "tough". Two games against D2 schools so they're 3-3 against D1 competition with their best win being against 3-4 (against D1 competition) Sacramento St. Like it or not ISU's reputation does play a role because I won't give them the benefit of the doubt for playing tough teams close and blowing out patsies until they beat a quality team. IMO, the opportunity for quality wins will come later in their schedule against Cal Poly and Montana St. FWIW, I have them on the cusp of the top 25 but they're not there yet IMO.

People don't like to be wrong. You can see when a team starts high it is hard to lower them, UNI for example. The other side of the coin are teams that aren't in the polls trying to get in. Cal Poly and NAU, who defeated highly ranked teams, is an example of the latter.

The thing to remember in all of this. It is impossible for any individual to watch 50 FCS games in a weekend, then put the time in to compare each one. You do the best with what you have.

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

NDSU could not have played worse running the ball and Montana could not have played better. If this game happens now NDSU runs for 600+ against our "best defense in the big Sky".

[WileECoyote06]

E. Washington loses a close game on the road to unranked Northern Arizona; drops three places to #7. -Under-reaction?
Bethune-Cookman loses a close game on the road to unranked South Carolina State; drops eight places out of the poll. -Over-reaction?

Also concerning Illinois State, I moved them ahead of Coastal Carolina and seriously considered moving them to #2 in my poll ahead of Villanova and New Hampshire.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

This is why I do not do polls very often, really no point when its a popularity contest.

Yup, that's the only answer so stick with it.

Of course you'd have to wonder how teams like Bryant, The Blue Hose, etc. are getting attention...yeah nevermind, the simple answer suits ya brother.

The reason you don't vote very often is because you are lazy so stop making it look like it's some big protest.

[skinny_uncle]

A bit surprised at Coastal being ahead of Illinois State.

[clenz]

Arguments about the BSC as a whole aside ISU's schedule has been anything but "tough". Two games against D2 schools so they're 3-3 against D1 competition with their best win being against 3-4 (against D1 competition) Sacramento St. Like it or not ISU's reputation does play a role because I won't give them the benefit of the doubt for playing tough teams close and blowing out patsies until they beat a quality team. IMO, the opportunity for quality wins will come later in their schedule against Cal Poly and Montana St. FWIW, I have them on the cusp of the top 25 but they're not there yet IMO.
This is where the Big Sky gets it right, though.

I've said this before and I maintain it (NOTE I'M NOT TURNING THIS INTO A BSC/MVFC PISSING MATCH OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT):
the Big Sky did it "right" when they expanded to 14. They added one decent team (Cal Poly) and a bunch of dead weight along the way.

The bottom 4-6 teams in that conference are bad and allow for the top 5-6 teams, and 2-3 middle teams, to add a decent number of wins to their record. I could do a big breakdown of who plays who and who misses who when it comes to top teams and bottom teams but I'm not feeling like it. I do know the top 3-4 teams have a nice rotation of playing 2 other top teams, 2-3 bottom feeders, and a couple "middle teams" to round their schedule out it seems like based on a quick scan. I'd say that's a "fair" schedule. Play some top, some bottom, some middle and depending how the middle is it could mean a lot of bad teams on the schedule. I have no issues with that.

It creates a perfect set up for getting at large births because there will almost always been 6-8 teams with 7+ wins and 4 or 5 with 8+.

It's a brilliant set up by the Big Sky. As an MVFC fan where UNI is forced to play SDSU, SIU, NDSU, ISUr every year I hate it. As someone looking at how to get births it's perfect.

I've long been a staunch true round robin guy, and always will be. However, it would be in the interests of playoff caliber MVFC schools looking for bids to add 3-4 bottom feeders. We've already got a strong top and decent middle. We need the dog feeder bottom to boost records. I don't want another ND team, but UND could fit that bill. Offer some sort of neat package for UND/EIU/Murray State/SEMO/etc... Even if we only pick up 2 of them it would be huge.

*****NOTE******
I'M NOT ATTACKING THE BIG SKY CONFERENCE OR BIG SKY TEAMS IN ANYWAY, SHAPE, AND OR FORM. SIMPLY COMMENTING ON THE PERFECT SET UP OF THEIR CONFERENCE.

I ALSO REALIZE THAT CONFERENCE DON'T GET AT LARGE BIRTHS, IT'S THE TEAMS. HOWEVER, THE BIG SKY HAS DONE A GREAT JOB IN SETTING UP THEIR TEAMS FOR BIRTHS. I WISH THE MVFC WOULD DO THE SAME.



Did I throw enough of a disclaimer on this post to avoid some Big Sky fan getting all kinds of butt hurt?

[robsnotes4u]

Arguments about the BSC as a whole aside ISU's schedule has been anything but "tough". Two games against D2 schools so they're 3-3 against D1 competition with their best win being against 3-4 (against D1 competition) Sacramento St. Like it or not ISU's reputation does play a role because I won't give them the benefit of the doubt for playing tough teams close and blowing out patsies until they beat a quality team. IMO, the opportunity for quality wins will come later in their schedule against Cal Poly and Montana St. FWIW, I have them on the cusp of the top 25 but they're not there yet IMO.




I will explain my thought process.

MT lost to FCS #1 NDSU in Fargo by 12 points, at Wyoming by 5 and then lost to Cal Poly by 20 on the road
Cal Poly lost to New Mexico State by 18, South Dakota State (44-18) and they lost to Northern Arizona.

My thought was MT was better against Wyoming than Cal Poly against NMSU. Losing by 12 to NDSU is better than losing 44-18 to SDSU.

Right or wrong that was my thinking.

Dewey

So are you saying that teams can't progress or regress during a season? Isn't the progression and regression of teams suppose to be what polls are for?

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

A bit surprised at Coastal being ahead of Illinois State.

I am not, people like the look of the Illinois State jerseys way better than the CCU ones. I have Illinois State ranked in the top 5 when it comes to this fashion show.

[clenz]

I'm not sure a UNI guy should be using this one clenzy...I mean considering the reasoning the last few years and all.
I see the irony....

also notice I'm not advocating for a 3 win MVFC team...or saying UNI deserves more respect...or anything like that...am I?

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

Yup, that's the only answer so stick with it.

Of course you'd have to wonder how teams like Bryant, The Blue Hose, etc. are getting attention...yeah nevermind, the simple answer suits ya brother.

The reason you don't vote very often is because you are lazy so stop making it look like it's some big protest.

Am i

[Grizalltheway]

This is where the Big Sky gets it right, though.

I've said this before and I maintain it (NOTE I'M NOT TURNING THIS INTO A BSC/MVFC PISSING MATCH OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT):
the Big Sky did it "right" when they expanded to 14. They added one decent team (Cal Poly) and a bunch of dead weight along the way.

The bottom 4-6 teams in that conference are bad and allow for the top 5-6 teams, and 2-3 middle teams, to add a decent number of wins to their record. I could do a big breakdown of who plays who and who misses who when it comes to top teams and bottom teams but I'm not feeling like it. I do know the top 3-4 teams have a nice rotation of playing 2 other top teams, 2-3 bottom feeders, and a couple "middle teams" to round their schedule out it seems like based on a quick scan. I'd say that's a "fair" schedule. Play some top, some bottom, some middle and depending how the middle is it could mean a lot of bad teams on the schedule. I have no issues with that.

It creates a perfect set up for getting at large births because there will almost always been 6-8 teams with 7+ wins and 4 or 5 with 8+.

It's a brilliant set up by the Big Sky. As an MVFC fan where UNI is forced to play SDSU, SIU, NDSU, ISUr every year I hate it. As someone looking at how to get births it's perfect.

I've long been a staunch true round robin guy, and always will be. However, it would be in the interests of playoff caliber MVFC schools looking for bids to add 3-4 bottom feeders. We've already got a strong top and decent middle. We need the dog feeder bottom to boost records. I don't want another ND team, but UND could fit that bill. Offer some sort of neat package for UND/EIU/Murray State/SEMO/etc... Even if we only pick up 2 of them it would be huge.

*****NOTE******
I'M NOT ATTACKING THE BIG SKY CONFERENCE OR BIG SKY TEAMS IN ANYWAY, SHAPE, AND OR FORM. SIMPLY COMMENTING ON THE PERFECT SET UP OF THEIR CONFERENCE.

I ALSO REALIZE THAT CONFERENCE DON'T GET AT LARGE BIRTHS, IT'S THE TEAMS. HOWEVER, THE BIG SKY HAS DONE A GREAT JOB IN SETTING UP THEIR TEAMS FOR BIRTHS. I WISH THE MVFC WOULD DO THE SAME.



Did I throw enough of a disclaimer on this post to avoid some Big Sky fan getting all kinds of butt hurt?

Inside voice, please.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

berth

[clenz]

I understand your argument. However, to contradict it, UNI has just 4 wins and we are in week 10. And they haven't even beaten a .500 team!! I voted for UNI, just saying when you break it down this way, it doesn't always work. Are you saying that having 3 wins at this point should be laughed at, but 4 wins is totally justifiable?I'm not arguing for anyone to vote for UNI. I'm not about to talk about how great the wins are.

3 wins into week 10 doesn't deserve a vote, regardless of the team

[ursus arctos horribilis]

I see the irony....

also notice I'm not advocating for a 3 win MVFC team...or saying UNI deserves more respect...or anything like that...am I?

After 3 yrs. no you've laid back on that a little bit. Just saying I could if necessary go grab old arguments from your past and watch you argue with yourself.:D

[clenz]

After 3 yrs. no you've laid back on that a little bit. Just saying I could if necessary go grab old arguments from your past and watch you argue with yourself.:D
Don't think I won't do it....xcoffeex


You wouldn't last a day in my head.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Don't think I won't do it....xcoffeex


You wouldn't last a day in my head.

xlolx

Don't be so sure about that. I'd have that sucker humming like a sewing machine by lunchtime.xthumbsupx

[clenz]

xlolx

Don't be so sure about that. I'd have that sucker humming like a sewing machine by lunchtime.xthumbsupx

My wife is a licensed mental health counselor and belongs to 3 or 4 different national boards. She's given up on me and said there's no hope.....I don't doubt you, but you'd have your work more than cut out for you...


I know, as I'm typing my arguments, every single hole that is in it...every single hole. The problem is I suck people in every single time, and yet none of the obvious holes get pointed out.

I'm fully aware of what I'm doing.

Doesn't mean I don't believe what I say.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I've said this before and I maintain it (NOTE I'M NOT TURNING THIS INTO A BSC/MVFC PISSING MATCH OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT): the Big Sky did it "right" when they expanded to 14. They added one decent team (Cal Poly) and a bunch of dead weight along the way.

The bottom 4-6 teams in that conference are bad and allow for the top 5-6 teams, and 2-3 middle teams, to add a decent number of wins to their record. I could do a big breakdown of who plays who and who misses who when it comes to top teams and bottom teams but I'm not feeling like it. I do know the top 3-4 teams have a nice rotation of playing 2 other top teams, 2-3 bottom feeders, and a couple "middle teams" to round their schedule.

And then when judging the computer "schedule strength" of the conference teams get a bonus when a team they don't even play beats a very good FCS team or FBS teams. Yes, it is deviously brilliant, though it gets exposed in the playoffs at some point.

[RabidRabbit]

Building on CLENZ's discussion, it just begs for the NCC D-I (read Summit now) combo'ed as the MVFC. Summit side, UNC/UND/USD/SDSU/NDSU/WIU, MVC Side, YSU, UNI, MSU, ISU-R, ISU-B, SIU,

Do the CAA - Play the 5 games within the side each year, and 3 of the other side each year. SEMO and EIU would make good additions of full schollie teams also.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Building on CLENZ's discussion, it just begs for the NCC D-I (read Summit now) combo'ed as the MVFC. Summit side, UNC/UND/USD/SDSU/NDSU/WIU, MVC Side, YSU, UNI, MSU, ISU-R, ISU-B, SIU,

Do the CAA - Play the 5 games within the side each year, and 3 of the other side each year. SEMO and EIU would make good additions of full schollie teams also.

Easier schedules, and you still get the conference boost when one of those teams beats an FBS team. Everyone wins!

[clenz]

Building on CLENZ's discussion, it just begs for the NCC D-I (read Summit now) combo'ed as the MVFC. Summit side, UNC/UND/USD/SDSU/NDSU/WIU, MVC Side, YSU, UNI, MSU, ISU-R, ISU-B, SIU,

Do the CAA - Play the 5 games within the side each year, and 3 of the other side each year. SEMO and EIU would make good additions of full schollie teams also.
The issue is you'll never get UND (due to "pride") or UNC out of the Big Sky...maybe I'm wrong...though I'd gladly do that.

Or get damn Drake to care about football and get them to add

[Beachdude]

They did beat them head to head in Bozeman. It shouldn't be that shocking.

On an unrelated note I don't understand why CCU is still ranked above Illinois St. I realize it's just 7 points but look at each team's schedule. Illinois St has wins over the number 14, 17, and 31 teams in the current poll but CCU's best win is over a team tied for 33rd.


Oh, I don't know...maybe it's because CCU is 23-1 over the last 24 games vs. FCS opponents. Or maybe it's because CCU has won 12 straight against non-conference FCS competition, including beating a highly favored Montana team last year in the playoffs. Or maybe it's because CCU has held three opponents to 3 points or less for three straight games. Or maybe it's because CCU is undefeated despite playing 5 of its 8 games so far on the road. Or maybe it's because they are one of three remaining undefeated teams left in the FCS ( ...of which one of the other two is not named Villanova). Just speculating.....

[tribe_pride]

Building on CLENZ's discussion, it just begs for the NCC D-I (read Summit now) combo'ed as the MVFC. Summit side, UNC/UND/USD/SDSU/NDSU/WIU, MVC Side, YSU, UNI, MSU, ISU-R, ISU-B, SIU,

Do the CAA - Play the 5 games within the side each year, and 3 of the other side each year. SEMO and EIU would make good additions of full schollie teams also.

CAA no longer has divisions and only has 11 teams I believe. Because of that, they do play 8 conference games and 3-4 nonconference games each year (depending on the year) but not in a division format

[Grizzlies82]

This is where the Big Sky gets it right, though. I've said this before and I maintain it (NOTE I'M NOT TURNING THIS INTO A BSC/MVFC PISSING MATCH OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT): the Big Sky did it "right" when they expanded to 14. They added one decent team (Cal Poly) and a bunch of dead weight along the way. The bottom 4-6 teams in that conference are bad and allow for the top 5-6 teams, and 2-3 middle teams, to add a decent number of wins to their record.

*** NOTE I AM NOT BUTT HURT ***
Yet Clenz, I think you're wrong. Some of what you post is true, but your overall premise isn't; Having 13 teams in the conference there will be bad teams which virtually guarantees wins for the top teams. Yet having 13 teams means there is no true head to head competition within the conference. Each year a school plays only two predetermined opponents then their remaining conference games are a crap shoot. Some years may be a mix of upper, mid, and lower tier teams, some years not. This wasn't done by design. The Big Sky was cobbled together without much forethought after the implosion of the Big West conference. The Big Sky commissioner just seems to think bigger is somehow better.

Montana always plays MT State & E. Washington which is fine with me. Yet other schools predetermined opponents may virtually ensure two easy wins. So you propose those easy wins are a good thing to pad a record. Though it does nothing to prepare a team for the playoffs, as in No Arizona last year. With the 13 team mix it is also almost certain the conference has co-champions. It is likely these "champs" never played each other, and while each may have identical 7-1 conf. records that might include only three or four common opponents.

Overall the current Big Sky format is a damn mess. While some believe the MVFC has NO easy wins so it handicaps the conference. I don't buy it. (Note: I'm not trying to turn this into a Big Sky/ MVFC shouting match either). Though you may not see it, typically MVFC has a couple very good teams, a couple solid mid tier, and rest are your games to pad the record. Just because your cannon fodder puts up a fight, or wins the occasional upset over a top team, doesn't mean the conference still doesn't include upper, mid, and lower tiers. You already have the same effect without adding extra patsies whom you may, or may not, play in a given year. Wishing for adding more bad teams, and dividing the conference into the mess the Big Sky created, is not the answer. Go in the other direction, RUN don't walk. I miss playing all the conference games in a reasonable size conference. So be careful what you wish for. The grass sure as heck isn't any greener on this side of the fence.

[WrenFGun]

Top 4 teams seem really clear to me: NDSU #1, Nova, UNH, Il.St. in any order 2-4 is fine with me. Not sure how any other team has an argument.

Coastal's best two wins are over two MEAC schools who haven't beaten anyone, so it's tough for them to pass those four right now, IMO, but they are clearly a quality team.

[BlueHenSinfonian]

Here is what I have. The last third or so has been tough the past few weeks. There are more teams that could justify positions there than there are positions available.

1: North Dakota State Bison
2: Villanova Wildcats
3: New Hampshire Wildcats
4: Illinois State Redbirds
5: Coastal Carolina Chanticleers
6: Eastern Washington Eagles
7: Jacksonville State Gamecocks
8: Eastern Kentucky Colonels
9: Youngstown State Penguins
10: Fordham Rams
11: Montana State Bobcats
12: Richmond Spiders
13: McNeese State Cowboys
14: Indiana State Sycamores
15: Bryant Bulldogs
16: Southeastern Louisiana Lions
17: William & Mary Tribe
18: Montana Grizzlies
19: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
20: Harvard Crimson
21: Albany Great Danes
22: Liberty Flames
23: Bethune-Cookman Wildcats
24: Chattanooga Mocs
25: Western Carolina Catamounts

[BisonBacker]

Building on CLENZ's discussion, it just begs for the NCC D-I (read Summit now) combo'ed as the MVFC. Summit side, UNC/UND/USD/SDSU/NDSU/WIU, MVC Side, YSU, UNI, MSU, ISU-R, ISU-B, SIU,

Do the CAA - Play the 5 games within the side each year, and 3 of the other side each year. SEMO and EIU would make good additions of full schollie teams also.

****** AND NO!

[Bisonator]

Who has UNH #1 and why?

[Nova09]

Oh, I don't know...maybe it's because CCU is 23-1 over the last 24 games vs. FCS opponents. Or maybe it's because CCU has won 12 straight against non-conference FCS competition, including beating a highly favored Montana team last year in the playoffs. Or maybe it's because CCU has held three opponents to 3 points or less for three straight games. Or maybe it's because CCU is undefeated despite playing 5 of its 8 games so far on the road. Or maybe it's because they are one of three remaining undefeated teams left in the FCS ( ...of which one of the other two is not named Villanova). Just speculating.....

Wtf does this have to do with anything? The question was about Ill St, who is one of the other undefeateds.

[dewey]

So are you saying that teams can't progress or regress during a season? Isn't the progression and regression of teams suppose to be what polls are for?

Good point. I guess the big thing is do you look at the season as a whole up to that point or is it the top 25 teams for that week?

Dewey

[coastalalum]

Top 4 teams seem really clear to me: NDSU #1, Nova, UNH, Il.St. in any order 2-4 is fine with me. Not sure how any other team has an argument.

Coastal's best two wins are over two MEAC schools who haven't beaten anyone, so it's tough for them to pass those four right now, IMO, but they are clearly a quality team.


certainly a fair assessment, but i think you're selling this year's big south conference a little short.

it's just a poll, so i don't get too excited about it. however, ill state's last 3 wins all required a 4th quarter comeback (including a last second FG) to get done. just that fact alone doesn't scream "top 4 without question" to me.

[bisonboone11]

Oh, I don't know...maybe it's because CCU is 23-1 over the last 24 games vs. FCS opponents. Or maybe it's because CCU has won 12 straight against non-conference FCS competition, including beating a highly favored Montana team last year in the playoffs. Or maybe it's because CCU has held three opponents to 3 points or less for three straight games. Or maybe it's because CCU is undefeated despite playing 5 of its 8 games so far on the road. Or maybe it's because they are one of three remaining undefeated teams left in the FCS ( ...of which one of the other two is not named Villanova). Just speculating.....
Not sure how you can count the Montana game last year as part of an ongoing streak against FCS competition considering you lost to NDSU after that game... unless you're saying that NDSU isn't an FCS team?

Same question about the 23-1 over the last 24 games?

[FargoBison]

Building on CLENZ's discussion, it just begs for the NCC D-I (read Summit now) combo'ed as the MVFC. Summit side, UNC/UND/USD/SDSU/NDSU/WIU, MVC Side, YSU, UNI, MSU, ISU-R, ISU-B, SIU,

Do the CAA - Play the 5 games within the side each year, and 3 of the other side each year. SEMO and EIU would make good additions of full schollie teams also.

NDSU will never agree to this.

We like playing the MVC schools, especially UNI.

[Kemo]

I did something different this week. Since there were a fair amount of losses in my top 25, I wasn't sure how far to drop certain teams, so I did a resume overhaul of nearly everyone in the previous week's AGS top 40 (and some of the other receiving votes) without taking into consideration any of my previous polls.

The way I went about this was to go over each of these teams' schedules and assigned a value to each game played.

All wins were assigned a number 4 through 0 based on how difficult I perceived the opponent. Basically, a 4 was given only for a BCS win or a top 5 FCS win (none of the top 5 FCS teams has been beaten by another FCS team) and a 0 was assigned for wins against lower division, non scholarship, and non competitive teams. Most teams from traditional power conferences (Big Sky, CAA, MVFC, Southern) were worth at least one point unless they have been proven to be truly awful (Rhode Island, VMI, Incarnate Word, Houston Baptist, Nichols State). 3s were reserved for Lower FBS win (though that value was not guaranteed) and wins against teams that could make a good claim as a top 15 FCS team. 2s were awarded for victories over teams that could make a case for being a top 30 FCS team. Obviously, there were plenty of games that were borderline 2s and 3s, so the competitive nature of the game was taken into account.

FCS losses were assigned a number -4 through 0, where as FBS losses wouldn't give any negative points, but could wield some positive points if the FCS team was within a score of the FBS team (+2 for one score BCS loss, +1 for one score Lower FBS loss). -4 was reserved for terrible losses (lower division, non scholarship, and non competitive teams) and 0 was reserved for coin flip loses to highly ranked (Top 5ish) teams. All the in-between were based off the opponent and competitive nature of the game.

After going through a team's schedule, I combined the values and came up with a final score. Obviously there were teams that ended up with the same score and some in which a decent argument could have been made to make a score higher or lower, so I tried to reevaluate close scores and had to make a compromise here and there.

Overall, this was not a scientific poll and still had a lot of my opinion dictating it, but it gave me a better grasp of teams' overall body of work. I most certainly won't create my poll this way every week (nor would it be necessary), but I found it a good way to sort out a jumbled mess after a bunch of losses.

*I did these values on a scratch piece of paper at work, and even though I tried to be as consistent as possible, I'm sure I messed up here and there.

My Poll (Point Value in Parenthesis)

1: North Dakota State Bison (13)


Bison grade out the best due to BCS win and strong conference schedule

2: Villanova Wildcats (10)


Wildcats are neck and neck with the Redbirds

3: Illinois State Redbirds (10)


After getting almost no points from their non conference schedule, their string of MVFC wins elevated them to #3

4: New Hampshire Wildcats (9)


Lehigh, Dartmouth, and Elon tame their overall point total

5: Coastal Carolina Chanticleers (9)


Points rack up when you consistently beat below average, but not terrible, teams and have no negatives.

6: Jacksonville State Gamecocks (7)

There were some OVC games that I debated on giving them a point for, but in the end I decided how they achieved victory made it justifiable

7: Richmond Spiders (6)

In further review, I think I misplaced a value on Richmond's win column (accidentally gave 1 point for Rhode Island win when I know I didn't for others), so EWU should probably be in this spot.

8: Eastern Washington Eagles (6)

The loss to NAU didn't hurt them as bad as I thought because of their victories over Montana State and Idaho coupled with their competitive game against Washington.

9: Youngstown State Penguins (6)

Another MVFC team that didn't earn many points outside MVFC play, but wins inside the conference have helped them

10: Indiana State Sycamores (6)


Probably the most surprising team in my mind after placing the values. Pollsters really need to go back and reevaluate their resume. They have as many quality wins as anyone and their losses are against a Big Ten team, my #1, and my #3.

11: Montana State Bobcats (6)

Best win is against Central Arkansas, but they racked up a lot of 1 pointers and EWU lose didn't really hurt them.

12: South Dakota State Jackrabbits (4)

Thought they'd be lower, but a tough schedule adds value to wins and lessens the negatives for their losses (#3 IlST, #9 YSU).

13: Chattanooga Mocs (3.5)


Been getting some criticism for this one, especially since the Southern conference is down. I have them at a 3.5 because I was torn about scoring certain games (i.e. give them 0 or -1 for Jacksonville State loss)

14: Eastern Kentucky Colonels (3)


Their win against Miami OH is really what's placing them here

15: Northern Iowa Panthers (3)

Their credit for the close game against Iowa helps them along with the strength of the MVFC

16: Western Carolina Catamounts (3)

Another surprise for me (they were barely in my top 25 last week). There close game with South Florida and the bunch of below average wins equaled enough points to counter their loss to the Blue Hose.

17: Liberty Flames (3)

The win over Appy and respectable losses have the Flames here

18: Missouri State Bears (3)


Their strong non conference schedule and close conference losses have them higher than I figured

19: Idaho State Bengals (2.5)


It's sad that the administration scheduled this team out of a real shot to make the playoffs, because after breaking down their resume, it really isn't too bad.

20: Montana Grizzlies (2)


Their subpar wins don't really add up much to counter their losses.

21: William & Mary Tribe (1)


Another team whose losses have come to good teams, but their wins just don't add up to much

22: McNeese State Cowboys (1)


Their Nebraska performance is really the only thing holding them up in the positives. What really hurts them and most of the Southland conference is that the league's bottom is so bad (Incarnate Word, HBU, Nichols are atrocious) and the league just didn't accumulate any quality OCC wins.

23: Southeastern Louisiana Lions (1)


The quality wins are just not there.

24: Cal Poly Mustangs (1)


They are picking up steam and the Montana win was enough to push them into my top 25 for the first time.

25: Bryant Bulldogs (1)

These guys have done just enough to reenter my poll.

[BisonBacker]

I did something different this week. Since there were a fair amount of losses in my top 25, I wasn't sure how far to drop certain teams, so I did a resume overhaul of nearly everyone in the previous week's AGS top 40 (and some of the other receiving votes) without taking into consideration any of my previous polls.

The way I went about this was to go over each of these teams' schedules and assigned a value to each game played.

All wins were assigned a number 4 through 0 based on how difficult I perceived the opponent. Basically, a 4 was given only for a BCS win or a top 5 FCS win (none of the top 5 FCS teams has been beaten by another FCS team) and a 0 was assigned for wins against lower division, non scholarship, and non competitive teams. Most teams from traditional power conferences (Big Sky, CAA, MVFC, Southern) were worth at least one point unless they have been proven to be truly awful (Rhode Island, VMI, Incarnate Word, Houston Baptist, Nichols State). 3s were reserved for Lower FBS win (though that value was not guaranteed) and wins against teams that could make a good claim as a top 15 FCS team. 2s were awarded for victories over teams that could make a case for being a top 30 FCS team. Obviously, there were plenty of games that were borderline 2s and 3s, so the competitive nature of the game was taken into account.

FCS losses were assigned a number -4 through 0, where as FBS losses wouldn't give any negative points, but could wield some positive points if the FCS team was within a score of the FBS team (+2 for one score BCS loss, +1 for one score Lower FBS loss). -4 was reserved for terrible losses (lower division, non scholarship, and non competitive teams) and 0 was reserved for coin flip loses to highly ranked (Top 5ish) teams. All the in-between were based off the opponent and competitive nature of the game.

After going through a team's schedule, I combined the values and came up with a final score. Obviously there were teams that ended up with the same score and some in which a decent argument could have been made to make a score higher or lower, so I tried to reevaluate close scores and had to make a compromise here and there.

Overall, this was not a scientific poll and still had a lot of my opinion dictating it, but it gave me a better grasp of teams' overall body of work. I most certainly won't create my poll this way every week (nor would it be necessary), but I found it a good way to sort out a jumbled mess after a bunch of losses.

*I did these values on a scratch piece of paper at work, and even though I tried to be as consistent as possible, I'm sure I messed up here and there.

My Poll (Point Value in Parenthesis)

1: North Dakota State Bison (13)


Bison grade out the best due to BCS win and strong conference schedule

2: Villanova Wildcats (10)


Wildcats are neck and neck with the Redbirds

3: Illinois State Redbirds (10)


After getting almost no points from their non conference schedule, their string of MVFC wins elevated them to #3

4: New Hampshire Wildcats (9)


Lehigh, Dartmouth, and Elon tame their overall point total

5: Coastal Carolina Chanticleers (9)


Points rack up when you consistently beat below average, but not terrible, teams and have no negatives.

6: Jacksonville State Gamecocks (7)

There were some OVC games that I debated on giving them a point for, but in the end I decided how they achieved victory made it justifiable

7: Richmond Spiders (6)

In further review, I think I misplaced a value on Richmond's win column (accidentally gave 1 point for Rhode Island win when I know I didn't for others), so EWU should probably be in this spot.

8: Eastern Washington Eagles (6)

The loss to NAU didn't hurt them as bad as I thought because of their victories over Montana State and Idaho coupled with their competitive game against Washington.

9: Youngstown State Penguins (6)

Another MVFC team that didn't earn many points outside MVFC play, but wins inside the conference have helped them

10: Indiana State Sycamores (6)


Probably the most surprising team in my mind after placing the values. Pollsters really need to go back and reevaluate their resume. They have as many quality wins as anyone and their losses are against a Big Ten team, my #1, and my #3.

11: Montana State Bobcats (6)

Best win is against Central Arkansas, but they racked up a lot of 1 pointers and EWU lose didn't really hurt them.

12: South Dakota State Jackrabbits (4)

Thought they'd be lower, but a tough schedule adds value to wins and lessens the negatives for their losses (#3 IlST, #9 YSU).

13: Chattanooga Mocs (3.5)


Been getting some criticism for this one, especially since the Southern conference is down. I have them at a 3.5 because I was torn about scoring certain games (i.e. give them 0 or -1 for Jacksonville State loss)

14: Eastern Kentucky Colonels (3)


Their win against Miami OH is really what's placing them here

15: Northern Iowa Panthers (3)

Their credit for the close game against Iowa helps them along with the strength of the MVFC

16: Western Carolina Catamounts (3)

Another surprise for me (they were barely in my top 25 last week). There close game with South Florida and the bunch of below average wins equaled enough points to counter their loss to the Blue Hose.

17: Liberty Flames (3)

The win over Appy and respectable losses have the Flames here

18: Missouri State Bears (3)


Their strong non conference schedule and close conference losses have them higher than I figured

19: Idaho State Bengals (2.5)


It's sad that the administration scheduled this team out of a real shot to make the playoffs, because after breaking down their resume, it really isn't too bad.

20: Montana Grizzlies (2)


Their subpar wins don't really add up much to counter their losses.

21: William & Mary Tribe (1)


Another team whose losses have come to good teams, but their wins just don't add up to much

22: McNeese State Cowboys (1)


Their Nebraska performance is really the only thing holding them up in the positives. What really hurts them and most of the Southland conference is that the league's bottom is so bad (Incarnate Word, HBU, Nichols are atrocious) and the league just didn't accumulate any quality OCC wins.

23: Southeastern Louisiana Lions (1)


The quality wins are just not there.

24: Cal Poly Mustangs (1)


They are picking up steam and the Montana win was enough to push them into my top 25 for the first time.

25: Bryant Bulldogs (1)

These guys have done just enough to reenter my poll.




Kemo I like your posting. I enjoy reading the comments you have in the poll each week but you outdid yourself this week. I like it. Keep up the good work! xthumbsupx

[ursus arctos horribilis]

I did something different this week. Since there were a fair amount of losses in my top 25, I wasn't sure how far to drop certain teams, so I did a resume overhaul of nearly everyone in the previous week's AGS top 40 (and some of the other receiving votes) without taking into consideration any of my previous polls.

The way I went about this was to go over each of these teams' schedules and assigned a value to each game played.

All wins were assigned a number 4 through 0 based on how difficult I perceived the opponent. Basically, a 4 was given only for a BCS win or a top 5 FCS win (none of the top 5 FCS teams has been beaten by another FCS team) and a 0 was assigned for wins against lower division, non scholarship, and non competitive teams. Most teams from traditional power conferences (Big Sky, CAA, MVFC, Southern) were worth at least one point unless they have been proven to be truly awful (Rhode Island, VMI, Incarnate Word, Houston Baptist, Nichols State). 3s were reserved for Lower FBS win (though that value was not guaranteed) and wins against teams that could make a good claim as a top 15 FCS team. 2s were awarded for victories over teams that could make a case for being a top 30 FCS team. Obviously, there were plenty of games that were borderline 2s and 3s, so the competitive nature of the game was taken into account.

FCS losses were assigned a number -4 through 0, where as FBS losses wouldn't give any negative points, but could wield some positive points if the FCS team was within a score of the FBS team (+2 for one score BCS loss, +1 for one score Lower FBS loss). -4 was reserved for terrible losses (lower division, non scholarship, and non competitive teams) and 0 was reserved for coin flip loses to highly ranked (Top 5ish) teams. All the in-between were based off the opponent and competitive nature of the game.

After going through a team's schedule, I combined the values and came up with a final score. Obviously there were teams that ended up with the same score and some in which a decent argument could have been made to make a score higher or lower, so I tried to reevaluate close scores and had to make a compromise here and there.

Overall, this was not a scientific poll and still had a lot of my opinion dictating it, but it gave me a better grasp of teams' overall body of work. I most certainly won't create my poll this way every week (nor would it be necessary), but I found it a good way to sort out a jumbled mess after a bunch of losses.

*I did these values on a scratch piece of paper at work, and even though I tried to be as consistent as possible, I'm sure I messed up here and there.

My Poll (Point Value in Parenthesis)

1: North Dakota State Bison (13)


Bison grade out the best due to BCS win and strong conference schedule

2: Villanova Wildcats (10)


Wildcats are neck and neck with the Redbirds

3: Illinois State Redbirds (10)


After getting almost no points from their non conference schedule, their string of MVFC wins elevated them to #3

4: New Hampshire Wildcats (9)


Lehigh, Dartmouth, and Elon tame their overall point total

5: Coastal Carolina Chanticleers (9)


Points rack up when you consistently beat below average, but not terrible, teams and have no negatives.

6: Jacksonville State Gamecocks (7)

There were some OVC games that I debated on giving them a point for, but in the end I decided how they achieved victory made it justifiable

7: Richmond Spiders (6)

In further review, I think I misplaced a value on Richmond's win column (accidentally gave 1 point for Rhode Island win when I know I didn't for others), so EWU should probably be in this spot.

8: Eastern Washington Eagles (6)

The loss to NAU didn't hurt them as bad as I thought because of their victories over Montana State and Idaho coupled with their competitive game against Washington.

9: Youngstown State Penguins (6)

Another MVFC team that didn't earn many points outside MVFC play, but wins inside the conference have helped them

10: Indiana State Sycamores (6)


Probably the most surprising team in my mind after placing the values. Pollsters really need to go back and reevaluate their resume. They have as many quality wins as anyone and their losses are against a Big Ten team, my #1, and my #3.

11: Montana State Bobcats (6)

Best win is against Central Arkansas, but they racked up a lot of 1 pointers and EWU lose didn't really hurt them.

12: South Dakota State Jackrabbits (4)

Thought they'd be lower, but a tough schedule adds value to wins and lessens the negatives for their losses (#3 IlST, #9 YSU).

13: Chattanooga Mocs (3.5)


Been getting some criticism for this one, especially since the Southern conference is down. I have them at a 3.5 because I was torn about scoring certain games (i.e. give them 0 or -1 for Jacksonville State loss)

14: Eastern Kentucky Colonels (3)


Their win against Miami OH is really what's placing them here

15: Northern Iowa Panthers (3)

Their credit for the close game against Iowa helps them along with the strength of the MVFC

16: Western Carolina Catamounts (3)

Another surprise for me (they were barely in my top 25 last week). There close game with South Florida and the bunch of below average wins equaled enough points to counter their loss to the Blue Hose.

17: Liberty Flames (3)

The win over Appy and respectable losses have the Flames here

18: Missouri State Bears (3)


Their strong non conference schedule and close conference losses have them higher than I figured

19: Idaho State Bengals (2.5)


It's sad that the administration scheduled this team out of a real shot to make the playoffs, because after breaking down their resume, it really isn't too bad.

20: Montana Grizzlies (2)


Their subpar wins don't really add up much to counter their losses.

21: William & Mary Tribe (1)


Another team whose losses have come to good teams, but their wins just don't add up to much

22: McNeese State Cowboys (1)


Their Nebraska performance is really the only thing holding them up in the positives. What really hurts them and most of the Southland conference is that the league's bottom is so bad (Incarnate Word, HBU, Nichols are atrocious) and the league just didn't accumulate any quality OCC wins.

23: Southeastern Louisiana Lions (1)


The quality wins are just not there.

24: Cal Poly Mustangs (1)


They are picking up steam and the Montana win was enough to push them into my top 25 for the first time.

25: Bryant Bulldogs (1)

These guys have done just enough to reenter my poll.


This is a very informed way of doing things. Quite impressive and a lot of pollsters do this each week or every couple of weeks.

[yorkcountyUNHfan]

CAA no longer has divisions and only has 11 teams I believe. Because of that, they do play 8 conference games and 3-4 nonconference games each year (depending on the year) but not in a division format

With the addition of Elon there are 12

North - Maine, UNH, Albany, SBU and URI
South - JMU, W&M, Elon, Richmond and Towson

What to do with Villanova and UD....we can't possibly split them upxrolleyesx

I think they're wait for things to stabilize for a while before we go back to the North and South set up

[skinny_uncle]

certainly a fair assessment, but i think you're selling this year's big south conference a little short.

it's just a poll, so i don't get too excited about it. however, ill state's last 3 wins all required a 4th quarter comeback (including a last second FG) to get done. just that fact alone doesn't scream "top 4 without question" to me.

Being undefeated this far into the season is still impressive for any Valley team.

[JMUNJ08]

With the addition of Elon there are 12

North - Maine, UNH, Albany, SBU and URI
South - JMU, W&M, Elon, Richmond and Towson

What to do with Villanova and UD....we can't possibly split them upxrolleyesx

I think they're wait for things to stabilize for a while before we go back to the North and South set up

Can go East/ West like the ACC has Atlantic and Coastal divisions which make zero sense.... Maybe that would work?

[Beachdude]

....

5: Coastal Carolina Chanticleers (9)


Points rack up when you consistently beat below average, but not terrible, teams and have no negatives.



Obviously, Coastal is the Rodney Dangerfield of the FCS. But in fairness, CCU's comp has been below average this year, due to no fault of Coastal. Just gets frustrating hearing all the comments because CCU is not in one of the 'elite' conferences.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Obviously, Coastal is the Rodney Dangerfield of the FCS.

Wear the crown well.

[robsnotes4u]

Arguments about the BSC as a whole aside ISU's schedule has been anything but "tough". Two games against D2 schools so they're 3-3 against D1 competition with their best win being against 3-4 (against D1 competition) Sacramento St. Like it or not ISU's reputation does play a role because I won't give them the benefit of the doubt for playing tough teams close and blowing out patsies until they beat a quality team. IMO, the opportunity for quality wins will come later in their schedule against Cal Poly and Montana St. FWIW, I have them on the cusp of the top 25 but they're not there yet IMO.



*** NOTE I AM NOT BUTT HURT ***
Yet Clenz, I think you're wrong. Some of what you post is true, but your overall premise isn't; Having 13 teams in the conference there will be bad teams which virtually guarantees wins for the top teams. Yet having 13 teams means there is no true head to head competition within the conference. Each year a school plays only two predetermined opponents then their remaining conference games are a crap shoot. Some years may be a mix of upper, mid, and lower tier teams, some years not. This wasn't done by design. The Big Sky was cobbled together without much forethought after the implosion of the Big West conference. The Big Sky commissioner just seems to think bigger is somehow better.

Montana always plays MT State & E. Washington which is fine with me. Yet other schools predetermined opponents may virtually ensure two easy wins. So you propose those easy wins are a good thing to pad a record. Though it does nothing to prepare a team for the playoffs, as in No Arizona last year. With the 13 team mix it is also almost certain the conference has co-champions. It is likely these "champs" never played each other, and while each may have identical 7-1 conf. records that might include only three or four common opponents.

Overall the current Big Sky format is a damn mess. While some believe the MVFC has NO easy wins so it handicaps the conference. I don't buy it. (Note: I'm not trying to turn this into a Big Sky/ MVFC shouting match either). Though you may not see it, typically MVFC has a couple very good teams, a couple solid mid tier, and rest are your games to pad the record. Just because your cannon fodder puts up a fight, or wins the occasional upset over a top team, doesn't mean the conference still doesn't include upper, mid, and lower tiers. You already have the same effect without adding extra patsies whom you may, or may not, play in a given year. Wishing for adding more bad teams, and dividing the conference into the mess the Big Sky created, is not the answer. Go in the other direction, RUN don't walk. I miss playing all the conference games in a reasonable size conference. So be careful what you wish for. The grass sure as heck isn't any greener on this side of the fence.

Good Post.

[robsnotes4u]

Arguments about the BSC as a whole aside ISU's schedule has been anything but "tough". Two games against D2 schools so they're 3-3 against D1 competition with their best win being against 3-4 (against D1 competition) Sacramento St. Like it or not ISU's reputation does play a role because I won't give them the benefit of the doubt for playing tough teams close and blowing out patsies until they beat a quality team. IMO, the opportunity for quality wins will come later in their schedule against Cal Poly and Montana St. FWIW, I have them on the cusp of the top 25 but they're not there yet IMO.


Good point. I guess the big thing is do you look at the season as a whole up to that point or is it the top 25 teams for that week?

Dewey

Good question, as there isn't any written guidelines. IMO, a little bit of both, looking for trends. Montana for example. If you only look at this week, you could say they either played bad, or CPU crushed them. Perception. Now if you look at the recent games of both teams.

Cal Poly.
Loses a close one to NAU who just beat #2 EWU
Wins a close won against WSU, who hasn't won a game but has played everyone (NDSU and MSU) tough
Wins against Sac St convincingly
Wins against #7 Montana convincingly

I would say they are progressing.

Montana
Wins against UNC convincingly
Wins against UND with a blocked field goal in the last minute, then kicks the winning field goal with seconds left
Wins against UC Davis Davis has the ball with a chance to tie or win with 3:11 left (MSU beat Davis by 40)
Loses to and unranked Cal Poly team convincingly

That is a regression.

The trends of both teams are obvious.

Now the problem is. Who has the time to do all this on every team in a poll? I watch a lot of FCS football, but it all can't be on Saturday, some is recorded, ESPN3 replay, or BigSkyTv VOD. Not one pollster can watch 50 games and compile all this info. The reason I don't vote, too much bias, subconsciously.

I applaud you putting your polls out there every week. Mine would definitely look worse. By the way, watching the NDSU/Montana game, then sitting at the NDSU/ISU game, along with watching this weekend. I would say the Bison are progressing very well.

[dgreco]

PLAY somebody.

Bryant has a better schedule than Western Carolina does to this point. Bryant also has stronger wins.

[robsnotes4u]

Arguments about the BSC as a whole aside ISU's schedule has been anything but "tough". Two games against D2 schools so they're 3-3 against D1 competition with their best win being against 3-4 (against D1 competition) Sacramento St. Like it or not ISU's reputation does play a role because I won't give them the benefit of the doubt for playing tough teams close and blowing out patsies until they beat a quality team. IMO, the opportunity for quality wins will come later in their schedule against Cal Poly and Montana St. FWIW, I have them on the cusp of the top 25 but they're not there yet IMO.


I did something different this week. Since there were a fair amount of losses in my top 25, I wasn't sure how far to drop certain teams, so I did a resume overhaul of nearly everyone in the previous week's AGS top 40 (and some of the other receiving votes) without taking into consideration any of my previous polls.

The way I went about this was to go over each of these teams' schedules and assigned a value to each game played.

All wins were assigned a number 4 through 0 based on how difficult I perceived the opponent. Basically, a 4 was given only for a BCS win or a top 5 FCS win (none of the top 5 FCS teams has been beaten by another FCS team) and a 0 was assigned for wins against lower division, non scholarship, and non competitive teams. Most teams from traditional power conferences (Big Sky, CAA, MVFC, Southern) were worth at least one point unless they have been proven to be truly awful (Rhode Island, VMI, Incarnate Word, Houston Baptist, Nichols State). 3s were reserved for Lower FBS win (though that value was not guaranteed) and wins against teams that could make a good claim as a top 15 FCS team. 2s were awarded for victories over teams that could make a case for being a top 30 FCS team. Obviously, there were plenty of games that were borderline 2s and 3s, so the competitive nature of the game was taken into account.

FCS losses were assigned a number -4 through 0, where as FBS losses wouldn't give any negative points, but could wield some positive points if the FCS team was within a score of the FBS team (+2 for one score BCS loss, +1 for one score Lower FBS loss). -4 was reserved for terrible losses (lower division, non scholarship, and non competitive teams) and 0 was reserved for coin flip loses to highly ranked (Top 5ish) teams. All the in-between were based off the opponent and competitive nature of the game.

After going through a team's schedule, I combined the values and came up with a final score. Obviously there were teams that ended up with the same score and some in which a decent argument could have been made to make a score higher or lower, so I tried to reevaluate close scores and had to make a compromise here and there.

Overall, this was not a scientific poll and still had a lot of my opinion dictating it, but it gave me a better grasp of teams' overall body of work. I most certainly won't create my poll this way every week (nor would it be necessary), but I found it a good way to sort out a jumbled mess after a bunch of losses.

*I did these values on a scratch piece of paper at work, and even though I tried to be as consistent as possible, I'm sure I messed up here and there.

My Poll (Point Value in Parenthesis)

1: North Dakota State Bison (13)


Bison grade out the best due to BCS win and strong conference schedule

2: Villanova Wildcats (10)


Wildcats are neck and neck with the Redbirds

3: Illinois State Redbirds (10)


After getting almost no points from their non conference schedule, their string of MVFC wins elevated them to #3

4: New Hampshire Wildcats (9)


Lehigh, Dartmouth, and Elon tame their overall point total

5: Coastal Carolina Chanticleers (9)


Points rack up when you consistently beat below average, but not terrible, teams and have no negatives.

6: Jacksonville State Gamecocks (7)

There were some OVC games that I debated on giving them a point for, but in the end I decided how they achieved victory made it justifiable

7: Richmond Spiders (6)

In further review, I think I misplaced a value on Richmond's win column (accidentally gave 1 point for Rhode Island win when I know I didn't for others), so EWU should probably be in this spot.

8: Eastern Washington Eagles (6)

The loss to NAU didn't hurt them as bad as I thought because of their victories over Montana State and Idaho coupled with their competitive game against Washington.

9: Youngstown State Penguins (6)

Another MVFC team that didn't earn many points outside MVFC play, but wins inside the conference have helped them

10: Indiana State Sycamores (6)


Probably the most surprising team in my mind after placing the values. Pollsters really need to go back and reevaluate their resume. They have as many quality wins as anyone and their losses are against a Big Ten team, my #1, and my #3.

11: Montana State Bobcats (6)

Best win is against Central Arkansas, but they racked up a lot of 1 pointers and EWU lose didn't really hurt them.

12: South Dakota State Jackrabbits (4)

Thought they'd be lower, but a tough schedule adds value to wins and lessens the negatives for their losses (#3 IlST, #9 YSU).

13: Chattanooga Mocs (3.5)


Been getting some criticism for this one, especially since the Southern conference is down. I have them at a 3.5 because I was torn about scoring certain games (i.e. give them 0 or -1 for Jacksonville State loss)

14: Eastern Kentucky Colonels (3)


Their win against Miami OH is really what's placing them here

15: Northern Iowa Panthers (3)

Their credit for the close game against Iowa helps them along with the strength of the MVFC

16: Western Carolina Catamounts (3)

Another surprise for me (they were barely in my top 25 last week). There close game with South Florida and the bunch of below average wins equaled enough points to counter their loss to the Blue Hose.

17: Liberty Flames (3)

The win over Appy and respectable losses have the Flames here

18: Missouri State Bears (3)


Their strong non conference schedule and close conference losses have them higher than I figured

19: Idaho State Bengals (2.5)


It's sad that the administration scheduled this team out of a real shot to make the playoffs, because after breaking down their resume, it really isn't too bad.

20: Montana Grizzlies (2)


Their subpar wins don't really add up much to counter their losses.

21: William & Mary Tribe (1)


Another team whose losses have come to good teams, but their wins just don't add up to much

22: McNeese State Cowboys (1)


Their Nebraska performance is really the only thing holding them up in the positives. What really hurts them and most of the Southland conference is that the league's bottom is so bad (Incarnate Word, HBU, Nichols are atrocious) and the league just didn't accumulate any quality OCC wins.

23: Southeastern Louisiana Lions (1)


The quality wins are just not there.

24: Cal Poly Mustangs (1)


They are picking up steam and the Montana win was enough to push them into my top 25 for the first time.

25: Bryant Bulldogs (1)

These guys have done just enough to reenter my poll.



xbowx

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Rob, I think you have the multi quote stuck on Prof Chaos maybe?

[ElCid]

Can someone explain to me how Montana deserves to be ranked above Cal Poly? Two 5-3 teams. Neither team has any outstanding win or horrendous loss...just the obvious head-to-head result that should tip the scales, yet doesn't.

I debated this exact question when looking at the two. I am not one to rank a head to head winner above the loser because I take the entire year into account and not just one game. However, when I looked at their track records, which includes the head to head, I had to give the edge to Cal Poly. Montana dropped quite a bit in my poll as a result. And FYI, for those who consider it as a data point, Montana is 32 in Sag and Massey. Cal Poly is 33 and 31--pretty doggone close. Their SOS is about even as well. It was a tough call.

[robsnotes4u]

Rob, I think you have the multi quote stuck on Prof Chaos maybe?

sorry and thanks, must have accidently hit it, as I have never used it before. have a great day

[dbackjon]

NAU has to be the most up and down team in FCS

Has beaten Poly and EWU, but lost to UNC and USD.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

NAU has to be the most up and down team in FBS

Has beaten Poly and EWU, but lost to UNC and USD.

Well then they are definitely the most up and down in FBS. Pretty up & down in FCS as well. Maybe even the BSC.

[dudeitsaid]

This is where the Big Sky gets it right, though.

I've said this before and I maintain it (NOTE I'M NOT TURNING THIS INTO A BSC/MVFC PISSING MATCH OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT):
the Big Sky did it "right" when they expanded to 14. They added one decent team (Cal Poly) and a bunch of dead weight along the way.

The bottom 4-6 teams in that conference are bad and allow for the top 5-6 teams, and 2-3 middle teams, to add a decent number of wins to their record. I could do a big breakdown of who plays who and who misses who when it comes to top teams and bottom teams but I'm not feeling like it. I do know the top 3-4 teams have a nice rotation of playing 2 other top teams, 2-3 bottom feeders, and a couple "middle teams" to round their schedule out it seems like based on a quick scan. I'd say that's a "fair" schedule. Play some top, some bottom, some middle and depending how the middle is it could mean a lot of bad teams on the schedule. I have no issues with that.

It creates a perfect set up for getting at large births because there will almost always been 6-8 teams with 7+ wins and 4 or 5 with 8+.

It's a brilliant set up by the Big Sky. As an MVFC fan where UNI is forced to play SDSU, SIU, NDSU, ISUr every year I hate it. As someone looking at how to get births it's perfect.

I've long been a staunch true round robin guy, and always will be. However, it would be in the interests of playoff caliber MVFC schools looking for bids to add 3-4 bottom feeders. We've already got a strong top and decent middle. We need the dog feeder bottom to boost records. I don't want another ND team, but UND could fit that bill. Offer some sort of neat package for UND/EIU/Murray State/SEMO/etc... Even if we only pick up 2 of them it would be huge.

*****NOTE******
I'M NOT ATTACKING THE BIG SKY CONFERENCE OR BIG SKY TEAMS IN ANYWAY, SHAPE, AND OR FORM. SIMPLY COMMENTING ON THE PERFECT SET UP OF THEIR CONFERENCE.

I ALSO REALIZE THAT CONFERENCE DON'T GET AT LARGE BIRTHS, IT'S THE TEAMS. HOWEVER, THE BIG SKY HAS DONE A GREAT JOB IN SETTING UP THEIR TEAMS FOR BIRTHS. I WISH THE MVFC WOULD DO THE SAME.



Did I throw enough of a disclaimer on this post to avoid some Big Sky fan getting all kinds of butt hurt?

xflamemadxxflamemadxxflamemadxxflamemadxHOW DARE YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! xflamemadxxflamemadxxflamemadxxflamemadxxflamemadx xflamemadxxflamemadxxflamemadx

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

I had real trouble with 15-25. I did not rank SDSU or SELA. I believe SDSU is hitting the wall and I haven't been sold on the Lions all season....

1: North Dakota State Bison
2: Villanova Wildcats
3: New Hampshire Wildcats
4: Illinois State Redbirds
5: Coastal Carolina Chanticleers
6: Jacksonville State Gamecocks
7: Richmond Spiders
8: Eastern Kentucky Colonels
9: Youngstown State Penguins
10: Montana State Bobcats
11: Eastern Washington Eagles
12: Fordham Rams
13: McNeese State Cowboys
14: Harvard Crimson
15: Bryant Bulldogs
16: William & Mary Tribe
17: Bethune-Cookman Wildcats
18: Albany Great Danes
19: Cal Poly Mustangs
20: Chattanooga Mocs
21: Liberty Flames
22: Montana Grizzlies
23: Stephen F. Austin Lumberjacks
24: Bucknell Bison
25: Western Carolina Catamounts

[ElCid]

13: Chattanooga Mocs (3.5)


Been getting some criticism for this one, especially since the Southern conference is down. I have them at a 3.5 because I was torn about scoring certain games (i.e. give them 0 or -1 for Jacksonville State loss)



I understand the perception and I was buying into it as well considering some of the results. However, since so many people love to quote the computer ratings as at least some sort of guidepost, you will find the opposite true. Personally I do not put a huge stock in them and I do feel the SOCON is down relative to previous years, but when you look at the computer ratings for Sagarin and Massey, the SOCON is doing just fine. But remember that while the Massey does take all games into account, Sagarin does not account for lower division games.

It is an interesting data point considering all the talk lately about how "bad" the SOCON is this year. I agree it is not real good, but it is not as far down as folks think. I really think others are up in comparison, the Big South especially. Chatty has not overly impressed, but they are better than most folks are ranking them. I have them right with you at 13. They have bounced in my poll between about 18 and 13 all year.

Massey's conf ratings:





Conf




Rat




Pwr




Off




Def




SoS




Missouri Valley (http://www.masseyratings.com/team.php?t=85697&s=262657)


1




1




1




1




1




Big South (http://www.masseyratings.com/team.php?t=10672&s=262657)


2




3




5




3




7




Colonial (http://www.masseyratings.com/team.php?t=11246&s=262657)


3




2




6




2




3




Big Sky (http://www.masseyratings.com/team.php?t=10668&s=262657)


4




4




3




5




2




Southern (http://www.masseyratings.com/team.php?t=14064&s=262657)


5




5




8




4




5




OH Valley (http://www.masseyratings.com/team.php?t=13193&s=262657)


6




6




7




7




4




Southland (http://www.masseyratings.com/team.php?t=14112&s=262657)


7




7




4




9




6




Patriot League (http://www.masseyratings.com/team.php?t=13333&s=262657)


8




8




9




6




8




Northeast (http://www.masseyratings.com/team.php?t=13046&s=262657)


9




9




10




8




9




Ivy League (http://www.masseyratings.com/team.php?t=12206&s=262657)


10




11




11




11




10




FCS Indep (http://www.masseyratings.com/team.php?t=9227&s=262657)


11




10




2




15




12




Mid-Eastern AC (http://www.masseyratings.com/team.php?t=12545&s=262657)


12




12




15




10




11




SWAC West (http://www.masseyratings.com/team.php?t=14269&s=262657)


13




15




12




16




15




Southwestern AC (http://www.masseyratings.com/team.php?t=14163&s=262657)


14




14




13




13




14




SWAC East (http://www.masseyratings.com/team.php?t=14267&s=262657)


15




13




14




12




13




Pioneer (http://www.masseyratings.com/team.php?t=13408&s=262657)


16




16




16




14




16





Sagarin conf ratings:

1 SEC-WEST (A) = 92.21
2 PAC-12(SOUTH) (A) = 81.24
3 BIG 12 (A) = 79.20
4 SEC-EAST (A) = 78.40
5 PAC-12(NORTH) (A) = 75.60
6 ACC-COASTAL (A) = 74.69
7 ACC-ATLANTIC (A) = 74.37
8 BIG TEN-EAST (A) = 74.12
9 BIG TEN-WEST (A) = 74.07
10 I-A INDEP (A) = 68.69
11 MWC-MOUNTAIN (A) = 64.97
12 AMERICAN ATH (A)= 63.90
13 MISSOURI VAL(AA) = 63.12
14 MWC-WEST (A) = 62.89
15 MAC-WEST (A) = 60.98
16 CONF USA-E (A) = 60.82
17 CONF USA-W (A) = 59.79
18 SUN BELT (A) = 55.11
19 MAC-EAST (A) = 53.93
20 SOUTHERN (AA) = 50.13
21 COLONIAL (AA) = 49.93
22 BIG SOUTH (AA) = 49.83
23 SOUTHLAND (AA) = 49.79
24 BIG SKY (AA) = 48.69
25 OHIO VALLEY (AA) = 47.58
26 IVY LEAGUE (AA) = 45.10
27 PATRIOT (AA) = 44.86
28 NORTHEAST (AA) = 43.26
29 I-AA INDEP (AA) = 40.82
30 MID-EASTERN (AA) = 36.36
31 SWAC-WEST (AA) = 33.07
32 SWAC-EAST (AA) = 32.01
33 PIONEER (AA) = 28.70

[kalm]

And then when judging the computer "schedule strength" of the conference teams get a bonus when a team they don't even play beats a very good FCS team or FBS teams. Yes, it is deviously brilliant, though it gets exposed in the playoffs at some point.

Sometimes that might be true, but there are many hanging their hats on "decent wins" in conference against .500ish teams that played relatively weak OOC schedules.

Referring back to an earlier thread of mine, take the 3-5, 4-4, and 5-3 teams from any conference, put them up against Southern Utah's schedule and tell me how much the results would differ:

SUU:




Sat, Aug 30


@
Nevada (http://espn.go.com/college-football/team/_/id/2440/nevada-wolf-pack)




L
28-19 (http://espn.go.com/ncf/recap?id=400548174)


0-1 (0-0)


Sat, Sept 6


@
SE Louisiana (http://espn.go.com/college-football/team/_/id/2545/southeastern-louisiana-lions)




L
41-14 (http://espn.go.com/ncf/recap?id=400553547)


0-2 (0-0)


Sat, Sept 13


vs
South Dakota St (http://espn.go.com/college-football/team/_/id/2571/south-dakota-state-jackrabbits)




L
26-6 (http://espn.go.com/ncf/recap?id=400553548)


0-3 (0-0)


Sat, Sept 20


@
Fresno State (http://espn.go.com/college-football/team/_/id/278/fresno-state-bulldogs)




L
56-16 (http://espn.go.com/ncf/recap?id=400548195)


0-4 (0-0)


Sat, Sept 27


vs
Weber State (http://espn.go.com/college-football/team/_/id/2692/weber-state-wildcats)




W
31-28 (http://espn.go.com/ncf/recap?id=400553549)


1-4 (1-0)


Sat, Oct 4


@
Cal Poly (http://espn.go.com/college-football/team/_/id/13/cal-poly-mustangs)




L
42-39 (http://espn.go.com/ncf/recap?id=400553307)


1-5 (1-1)


Sat, Oct 11


vs
E Washington (http://espn.go.com/college-football/team/_/id/331/eastern-washington-eagles)




L
42-30 (http://espn.go.com/ncf/recap?id=400553319)


1-6 (1-2)


Sat, Oct 18


@
Idaho State (http://espn.go.com/college-football/team/_/id/304/idaho-state-bengals)




L
56-28 (http://espn.go.com/ncf/recap?id=400553328)


1-7 (1-3)


Sat, Oct 25


vs
North Dakota (http://espn.go.com/college-football/team/_/id/155/north-dakota-)






And UC Davis isn't that much different.

So when considering quality wins or SoS between different conferences, where say a 4-4 team from the Big South, OVC, or CAA counts as a more legitimate win versus one against SUU where Delaware (for example and not to pick) has faced Pitt and JMU but also DSU, Colgate, Elon, SHU, and Towson by comparison, it really is apples to oranges.

- - - Updated - - -

[Professor Chaos]

Rob, I think you have the multi quote stuck on Prof Chaos maybe?
He's just trying to spread the gospel of my infinite wisdom :D

[kalm]

Regarding ISU...

I'm probably one of them few who have seen them in person and I ranked them based on the eyeball test and coaching. They are big, athletic, and have potentially legit all americans at QB, WR, and RB. Their coach has a ton of experience and success at this level and knows how to win and win in the playoffs. They have not only been winning the games they're supposed to, but rolling folks. The offense is for real and I see both Poly and MSU having a difficult time stopping it.

- - - Updated - - -

Oh…and one more thing…Kemo...xbowx

[slostang]

1: North Dakota State Bison
2: Villanova Wildcats
3: New Hampshire Wildcats
4: Coastal Carolina Chanticleers
5: Illinois State Redbirds
6: Jacksonville State Gamecocks
7: Richmond Spiders
8: Montana State Bobcats
9: McNeese State Cowboys
10: Youngstown State Penguins
11: Eastern Washington Eagles
12: Eastern Kentucky Colonels
13: Chattanooga Mocs
14: Montana Grizzlies
15: Indiana State Sycamores
16: Fordham Rams
17: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
18: William & Mary Tribe
19: Western Carolina Catamounts
20: Southeastern Louisiana Lions
21: Southern Illinois Salukis
22: Presbyterian Blue Hose
23: Northern Iowa Panthers
24: Liberty Flames
25: Idaho State BengalsCal Poly has the same record as Montana and just beat them by three TDs and Cal Poly is not in your poll and Montana is at 14th. Interesting.

[citdog]

Cal Poly has the same record as Montana and just beat them by three TDs and Cal Poly is not in your poll and Montana is at 14th. Interesting.

You had much further to move up. Had no expectations for the Mustangs after the incident in the preseason.

[kalm]

You had much further to move up. Had no expectations for the Mustangs after the incident in the preseason.

Also…Big Sky North bias.

[REALBird]

OK....were going to have to figure out how to distinguish between ISU (Illinois State), ISU (Indiana State) and ISU (Idaho State). Our MVFC friends have decided to use color schemes based on the dominant color for our MVFC teams. Illinois State (ISUr), Indiana State (ISUb)....so everyone give a warm welcome to ISUo (orange) (Idaho State).

Good thing Iowa State doesn't play at this level.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

OK....were going to have to figure out how to distinguish between ISU (Illinois State), ISU (Indiana State) and ISU (Idaho State). Our MVFC friends have decided to use color schemes based on the dominant color for our MVFC teams. Illinois State (ISUr), Indiana State (ISUb)....so everyone give a warm welcome to ISUo (orange) (Idaho State).

Good thing Iowa State doesn't play at this level.

I'd go with ISUh since they have Halloween down.

[kalm]

IdSU

[robsnotes4u]

He's just trying to spread the gospel of my infinite wisdom :D

+1

[dbackjon]

ISU = Idaho State.
ISUr = Illinois State
ISUb = Larry Bird State

[UAalum72]

With the addition of Elon there are 12

North - Maine, UNH, Albany, SBU and URI
South - JMU, W&M, Elon, Richmond and Towson

What to do with Villanova and UD....we can't possibly split them upxrolleyesx

I think they're wait for things to stabilize for a while before we go back to the North and South set up


Can go East/ West like the ACC has Atlantic and Coastal divisions which make zero sense.... Maybe that would work?
Doesn't matter. East-West and North-South are the same for the CAA. UD and Villanova are 6th and 7th on either axis.

It's over 800 miles in a straight line from Orono to Elon, and I don't think any CAA team is more than 75 miles from that line.

[JMUNJ08]

I had real trouble with 15-25. I did not rank SDSU or SELA. I believe SDSU is hitting the wall and I haven't been sold on the Lions all season....

1: North Dakota State Bison
2: Villanova Wildcats
3: New Hampshire Wildcats
4: Illinois State Redbirds
5: Coastal Carolina Chanticleers
6: Jacksonville State Gamecocks
7: Richmond Spiders
8: Eastern Kentucky Colonels
9: Youngstown State Penguins
10: Montana State Bobcats
11: Eastern Washington Eagles
12: Fordham Rams
13: McNeese State Cowboys
14: Harvard Crimson
15: Bryant Bulldogs
16: William & Mary Tribe
17: Bethune-Cookman Wildcats
18: Albany Great Danes
19: Cal Poly Mustangs
20: Chattanooga Mocs
21: Liberty Flames
22: Montana Grizzlies
23: Stephen F. Austin Lumberjacks
24: Bucknell Bison
25: Western Carolina Catamounts

Not terrible points you made on those 2 and Montana is nearly where I had them. My only question is where is ISUb? Surely their W's warrant a spot somewhere right?

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Not terrible points you made on those 2 and Montana is nearly where I had them. My only question is where is ISUb? Surely their W's warrant a spot somewhere right?

I don't know what to do with the MVFC. I had 3 of their teams in the Top 10 and nothing after. ISUb, SDSU and SIU are good teams but I'm not sure where they're ultimately headed. That could also be said about YSU too given their season ending schedule. Honestly, outside of NDSU I'm not sure what to think. It would be nice if one of the other "contenders" actually stepped up.....

[Southern Bison]

OK....were going to have to figure out how to distinguish between ISU (Illinois State), ISU (Indiana State) and ISU (Idaho State). Our MVFC friends have decided to use color schemes based on the dominant color for our MVFC teams. Illinois State (ISUr), Indiana State (ISUb)....so everyone give a warm welcome to ISUo (orange) (Idaho State).

Good thing Iowa State doesn't play at this level.
Most on here already use ISU-r & ISU-b. Instead of adding another ISU, can we just say Spud State?

[Bisonator]

Who has UNH #1 and why?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NP0mQeLWCCo

[Sycamore62]

OK....were going to have to figure out how to distinguish between ISU (Illinois State), ISU (Indiana State) and ISU (Idaho State). Our MVFC friends have decided to use color schemes based on the dominant color for our MVFC teams. Illinois State (ISUr), Indiana State (ISUb)....so everyone give a warm welcome to ISUo (orange) (Idaho State).

Good thing Iowa State doesn't play at this level.

Yes but with some fan and booster support I think they have the potential to get to this level

[Pant8her]

OK....were going to have to figure out how to distinguish between ISU (Illinois State), ISU (Indiana State) and ISU (Idaho State). Our MVFC friends have decided to use color schemes based on the dominant color for our MVFC teams. Illinois State (ISUr), Indiana State (ISUb)....so everyone give a warm welcome to ISUo (orange) (Idaho State).

Good thing Iowa State doesn't play at this level.




Yes but with some fan and booster support I think they have the potential to get to this level

Snap!

[clenz]

Snap!

What's real funny about that "potential to get to this level" is coming from and ISUb fan.

You know, that same ISUb that lost something like 64 out of 65 games at one point just a couple seasons ago...

[robsnotes4u]

Can someone explain to me how Montana deserves to be ranked above Cal Poly? Two 5-3 teams. Neither team has any outstanding win or horrendous loss...just the obvious head-to-head result that should tip the scales, yet doesn't.

I read the best answer to your question.

"Apparently, nobody views it as a quality win.Cledus (http://bobcatnation.com/bobcatbb/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=1288)Member # Retired
http://bobcatnation.com/bobcatbb/images/ranks/1GoldCat.jpg Posts: 2741Joined: Sun Sep 03, 2006 3:18 pmLocation: Billings Heights






xlolx

[clenz]

Oh...and an attempted neg reg from a butt hurt tree fan shows up for my last post.

xlolx

[Fordham]

I did something different this week. Since there were a fair amount of losses in my top 25, I wasn't sure how far to drop certain teams, so I did a resume overhaul of nearly everyone in the previous week's AGS top 40 (and some of the other receiving votes) without taking into consideration any of my previous polls.

The way I went about this was to go over each of these teams' schedules and assigned a value to each game played.

All wins were assigned a number 4 through 0 based on how difficult I perceived the opponent. Basically, a 4 was given only for a BCS win or a top 5 FCS win (none of the top 5 FCS teams has been beaten by another FCS team) and a 0 was assigned for wins against lower division, non scholarship, and non competitive teams. Most teams from traditional power conferences (Big Sky, CAA, MVFC, Southern) were worth at least one point unless they have been proven to be truly awful (Rhode Island, VMI, Incarnate Word, Houston Baptist, Nichols State). 3s were reserved for Lower FBS win (though that value was not guaranteed) and wins against teams that could make a good claim as a top 15 FCS team. 2s were awarded for victories over teams that could make a case for being a top 30 FCS team. Obviously, there were plenty of games that were borderline 2s and 3s, so the competitive nature of the game was taken into account.

FCS losses were assigned a number -4 through 0, where as FBS losses wouldn't give any negative points, but could wield some positive points if the FCS team was within a score of the FBS team (+2 for one score BCS loss, +1 for one score Lower FBS loss). -4 was reserved for terrible losses (lower division, non scholarship, and non competitive teams) and 0 was reserved for coin flip loses to highly ranked (Top 5ish) teams. All the in-between were based off the opponent and competitive nature of the game.

After going through a team's schedule, I combined the values and came up with a final score. Obviously there were teams that ended up with the same score and some in which a decent argument could have been made to make a score higher or lower, so I tried to reevaluate close scores and had to make a compromise here and there.

Overall, this was not a scientific poll and still had a lot of my opinion dictating it, but it gave me a better grasp of teams' overall body of work. I most certainly won't create my poll this way every week (nor would it be necessary), but I found it a good way to sort out a jumbled mess after a bunch of losses.

*I did these values on a scratch piece of paper at work, and even though I tried to be as consistent as possible, I'm sure I messed up here and there.

My Poll (Point Value in Parenthesis)

1: North Dakota State Bison (13)


Bison grade out the best due to BCS win and strong conference schedule

2: Villanova Wildcats (10)


Wildcats are neck and neck with the Redbirds

3: Illinois State Redbirds (10)


After getting almost no points from their non conference schedule, their string of MVFC wins elevated them to #3

4: New Hampshire Wildcats (9)


Lehigh, Dartmouth, and Elon tame their overall point total

5: Coastal Carolina Chanticleers (9)


Points rack up when you consistently beat below average, but not terrible, teams and have no negatives.

6: Jacksonville State Gamecocks (7)

There were some OVC games that I debated on giving them a point for, but in the end I decided how they achieved victory made it justifiable

7: Richmond Spiders (6)

In further review, I think I misplaced a value on Richmond's win column (accidentally gave 1 point for Rhode Island win when I know I didn't for others), so EWU should probably be in this spot.

8: Eastern Washington Eagles (6)

The loss to NAU didn't hurt them as bad as I thought because of their victories over Montana State and Idaho coupled with their competitive game against Washington.

9: Youngstown State Penguins (6)

Another MVFC team that didn't earn many points outside MVFC play, but wins inside the conference have helped them

10: Indiana State Sycamores (6)


Probably the most surprising team in my mind after placing the values. Pollsters really need to go back and reevaluate their resume. They have as many quality wins as anyone and their losses are against a Big Ten team, my #1, and my #3.

11: Montana State Bobcats (6)

Best win is against Central Arkansas, but they racked up a lot of 1 pointers and EWU lose didn't really hurt them.

12: South Dakota State Jackrabbits (4)

Thought they'd be lower, but a tough schedule adds value to wins and lessens the negatives for their losses (#3 IlST, #9 YSU).

13: Chattanooga Mocs (3.5)


Been getting some criticism for this one, especially since the Southern conference is down. I have them at a 3.5 because I was torn about scoring certain games (i.e. give them 0 or -1 for Jacksonville State loss)

14: Eastern Kentucky Colonels (3)


Their win against Miami OH is really what's placing them here

15: Northern Iowa Panthers (3)

Their credit for the close game against Iowa helps them along with the strength of the MVFC

16: Western Carolina Catamounts (3)

Another surprise for me (they were barely in my top 25 last week). There close game with South Florida and the bunch of below average wins equaled enough points to counter their loss to the Blue Hose.

17: Liberty Flames (3)

The win over Appy and respectable losses have the Flames here

18: Missouri State Bears (3)


Their strong non conference schedule and close conference losses have them higher than I figured

19: Idaho State Bengals (2.5)


It's sad that the administration scheduled this team out of a real shot to make the playoffs, because after breaking down their resume, it really isn't too bad.

20: Montana Grizzlies (2)


Their subpar wins don't really add up much to counter their losses.

21: William & Mary Tribe (1)


Another team whose losses have come to good teams, but their wins just don't add up to much

22: McNeese State Cowboys (1)


Their Nebraska performance is really the only thing holding them up in the positives. What really hurts them and most of the Southland conference is that the league's bottom is so bad (Incarnate Word, HBU, Nichols are atrocious) and the league just didn't accumulate any quality OCC wins.

23: Southeastern Louisiana Lions (1)


The quality wins are just not there.

24: Cal Poly Mustangs (1)


They are picking up steam and the Montana win was enough to push them into my top 25 for the first time.

25: Bryant Bulldogs (1)

These guys have done just enough to reenter my poll.


.... aaaand that's how we went from being top 20 in your poll last week and being bounced out of it this past week after creaming Lehigh?!?!?!?

Got it.

[Jason Svoboda]

I don't know what to do with the MVFC. I had 3 of their teams in the Top 10 and nothing after. ISUb, SDSU and SIU are good teams but I'm not sure where they're ultimately headed. That could also be said about YSU too given their season ending schedule. Honestly, outside of NDSU I'm not sure what to think. It would be nice if one of the other "contenders" actually stepped up.....
Stepped up? Care to clarify what would entail stepping up?

We have a FBS win and have beaten three teams that were ranked in the Top 25 at the time we played them. We smacked the Liberty team you have at 21 around all day at our house. Our three loses have come from a B10 school and the #1 and #7 ranked teams in FCS (neither of which have lost) and it took a FG with :50 left to play for Illinois State to get the win after a kicking game miscue gave them the ball at the 50. Oh, and our starting QB was out with a concussion and the starter was a redshirt freshman that had less than 10 snaps and had thrown one pass in his collegiate career. Massey has us with the #1 SOS.

I mean, I guess we could have dropped Tennessee Tech and scheduled Alabama or something. I know we've been terrible in the past but this is only the fourth year we've been fully funded since the 90s and we've only been able to recruit out of state with no restrictions for the last two.

[Kemo]

.... aaaand that's how we went from being top 20 in your poll last week and being bounced out of it this past week after creaming Lehigh?!?!?!?

Got it.
In my opening paragraph I stated that I made this poll completely independent of my previous poll, so Fordham did not drop out of my poll for creaming Lehigh, but rather because they didn't grade out well in their resume reevaluation.

What hurt Fordham was that their wins grade out as 0's across the board (their wins have a total of 9 DI victories between them all, the vast majority being over non/partial scholarship teams and not 1 win against a traditional power conference team of any caliber). So the only game that really registers for them was against Villinova, and that turned out very badly.

[mvemjsunpx]

(previous week in parentheses)

1. North Dakota St. (1)
2. Villanova (2)
3. New Hampshire (3)
4. Illinois St. (4)
5. Jacksonville St. (8)
6. Coastal Carolina (9)
7. Montana St. (10)
8. Richmond (11)
9. Youngstown St. (12)
10. Fordham (14)
11. Eastern Washington (5)
12. Indiana St. (19)
13. Tennessee-Chattanooga (15)
14. South Dakota St. (6)
15. Eastern Kentucky (16)
16. Idaho St. (NR)
17. Cal Poly (NR)
18. Montana (7)
19. McNeese St. (22)
20. Liberty (24)
21. Presbyterian (25)
22. Southeastern Louisiana (13)
23. Bethune-Cookman (21)
24. Southern Illinois (18)
25. William & Mary (NR)

W - Cal Poly
L - Sacred Heart



Dropped - Missouri St. (17), Northwestern St. (20), Sacred Heart (23)

[Engineer86]

I did something different this week. Since there were a fair amount of losses in my top 25, I wasn't sure how far to drop certain teams, so I did a resume overhaul of nearly everyone in the previous week's AGS top 40 (and some of the other receiving votes) without taking into consideration any of my previous polls.

The way I went about this was to go over each of these teams' schedules and assigned a value to each game played.

All wins were assigned a number 4 through 0 based on how difficult I perceived the opponent. Basically, a 4 was given only for a BCS win or a top 5 FCS win (none of the top 5 FCS teams has been beaten by another FCS team) and a 0 was assigned for wins against lower division, non scholarship, and non competitive teams. Most teams from traditional power conferences (Big Sky, CAA, MVFC, Southern) were worth at least one point unless they have been proven to be truly awful (Rhode Island, VMI, Incarnate Word, Houston Baptist, Nichols State). 3s were reserved for Lower FBS win (though that value was not guaranteed) and wins against teams that could make a good claim as a top 15 FCS team. 2s were awarded for victories over teams that could make a case for being a top 30 FCS team. Obviously, there were plenty of games that were borderline 2s and 3s, so the competitive nature of the game was taken into account.

FCS losses were assigned a number -4 through 0, where as FBS losses wouldn't give any negative points, but could wield some positive points if the FCS team was within a score of the FBS team (+2 for one score BCS loss, +1 for one score Lower FBS loss). -4 was reserved for terrible losses (lower division, non scholarship, and non competitive teams) and 0 was reserved for coin flip loses to highly ranked (Top 5ish) teams. All the in-between were based off the opponent and competitive nature of the game.

After going through a team's schedule, I combined the values and came up with a final score. Obviously there were teams that ended up with the same score and some in which a decent argument could have been made to make a score higher or lower, so I tried to reevaluate close scores and had to make a compromise here and there.

Overall, this was not a scientific poll and still had a lot of my opinion dictating it, but it gave me a better grasp of teams' overall body of work. I most certainly won't create my poll this way every week (nor would it be necessary), but I found it a good way to sort out a jumbled mess after a bunch of losses.

*I did these values on a scratch piece of paper at work, and even though I tried to be as consistent as possible, I'm sure I messed up here and there.

My Poll (Point Value in Parenthesis)

1: North Dakota State Bison (13)


Bison grade out the best due to BCS win and strong conference schedule

2: Villanova Wildcats (10)


Wildcats are neck and neck with the Redbirds

3: Illinois State Redbirds (10)


After getting almost no points from their non conference schedule, their string of MVFC wins elevated them to #3

4: New Hampshire Wildcats (9)


Lehigh, Dartmouth, and Elon tame their overall point total

5: Coastal Carolina Chanticleers (9)


Points rack up when you consistently beat below average, but not terrible, teams and have no negatives.

6: Jacksonville State Gamecocks (7)

There were some OVC games that I debated on giving them a point for, but in the end I decided how they achieved victory made it justifiable

7: Richmond Spiders (6)

In further review, I think I misplaced a value on Richmond's win column (accidentally gave 1 point for Rhode Island win when I know I didn't for others), so EWU should probably be in this spot.

8: Eastern Washington Eagles (6)

The loss to NAU didn't hurt them as bad as I thought because of their victories over Montana State and Idaho coupled with their competitive game against Washington.

9: Youngstown State Penguins (6)

Another MVFC team that didn't earn many points outside MVFC play, but wins inside the conference have helped them

10: Indiana State Sycamores (6)


Probably the most surprising team in my mind after placing the values. Pollsters really need to go back and reevaluate their resume. They have as many quality wins as anyone and their losses are against a Big Ten team, my #1, and my #3.

11: Montana State Bobcats (6)

Best win is against Central Arkansas, but they racked up a lot of 1 pointers and EWU lose didn't really hurt them.

12: South Dakota State Jackrabbits (4)

Thought they'd be lower, but a tough schedule adds value to wins and lessens the negatives for their losses (#3 IlST, #9 YSU).

13: Chattanooga Mocs (3.5)


Been getting some criticism for this one, especially since the Southern conference is down. I have them at a 3.5 because I was torn about scoring certain games (i.e. give them 0 or -1 for Jacksonville State loss)

14: Eastern Kentucky Colonels (3)


Their win against Miami OH is really what's placing them here

15: Northern Iowa Panthers (3)

Their credit for the close game against Iowa helps them along with the strength of the MVFC

16: Western Carolina Catamounts (3)

Another surprise for me (they were barely in my top 25 last week). There close game with South Florida and the bunch of below average wins equaled enough points to counter their loss to the Blue Hose.

17: Liberty Flames (3)

The win over Appy and respectable losses have the Flames here

18: Missouri State Bears (3)


Their strong non conference schedule and close conference losses have them higher than I figured

19: Idaho State Bengals (2.5)


It's sad that the administration scheduled this team out of a real shot to make the playoffs, because after breaking down their resume, it really isn't too bad.

20: Montana Grizzlies (2)


Their subpar wins don't really add up much to counter their losses.

21: William & Mary Tribe (1)


Another team whose losses have come to good teams, but their wins just don't add up to much

22: McNeese State Cowboys (1)


Their Nebraska performance is really the only thing holding them up in the positives. What really hurts them and most of the Southland conference is that the league's bottom is so bad (Incarnate Word, HBU, Nichols are atrocious) and the league just didn't accumulate any quality OCC wins.

23: Southeastern Louisiana Lions (1)


The quality wins are just not there.

24: Cal Poly Mustangs (1)


They are picking up steam and the Montana win was enough to push them into my top 25 for the first time.

25: Bryant Bulldogs (1)

These guys have done just enough to reenter my poll.



Congrats, a, you have moved past ranking Chatty five spots ahead of Fordham, you have found a "scientific" "unbiased" way to exclude Fordham from your top 25. xrolleyesx

[RabidRabbit]

Kemo - Good assessment. Rebkell (a WBB forum) leader does a similar assessment for at-large positioning. What this does is toss out weak GPI/RPI teams as having any value. For example, basically Pioneer/NEC wins have no value. If you would have used this at the early season, ISU(b) would have started with a 0 value. Their value has dramatically improved due to success.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

So it's currently a tie between Coastal Carolina and Fordham as to who gets the crown next for Rodney Dangerfield of FCS. Tough decision. Who will prevail?

[UNIFanSince1983]

But at least Rodney Dangerfield did something that deserved respect...

[Professor Chaos]

I bet there are a lot of teams would love to be "disrespected" with a #4 ranking like CCU is. xrolleyesx

[UNIFanSince1983]

I bet there are a lot of teams would love to be "disrespected" with a #4 ranking like CCU is. xrolleyesx

Yeah if CCU is being disrespected then so is Illinois State. Actually Illinois State is more disrespected since they have a far better resume, and are ranked behind CCU and two teams that have losses...

[Beachdude]

But at least Rodney Dangerfield did something that deserved respect...

Thanks...you just made my case.

[Trumpster]

Who has UNH #1 and why?

http://memecrunch.com/meme/4LUD/op-will-deliver/image.png

[WileECoyote06]

So it's currently a tie between Coastal Carolina and Fordham as to who gets the crown next for Rodney Dangerfield of FCS. Tough decision. Who will prevail?
Fordham is too high!

[Beachdude]

Yeah if CCU is being disrespected then so is Illinois State. Actually Illinois State is more disrespected since they have a far better resume, and are ranked behind CCU and two teams that have losses...

I have no issue with Illinois State, and agree with you on them, although if you look at each teams record vs. teams with Wins/Losses, I think IS has beat two teams with winning records, vs. CCU who has beat four. This is not to knock on IS, just saying there are many different ways to look at resumes.

[Engineer86]

Fordham is too high!

A Fordham fan can only hope they don't get stuck playing a MEAC team from such a strong underrated league with such a long history of strong playoff performance. xprayx

[WileECoyote06]

A Fordham fan can only hope they don't get stuck playing a MEAC team from such a strong underrated league with such a long history of strong playoff performance. xprayx

Wouldn't matter anyway. Wins over the MEAC don't really count.

[Sycamore62]

What's real funny about that "potential to get to this level" is coming from and ISUb fan.

You know, that same ISUb that lost something like 64 out of 65 games at one point just a couple seasons ago...

who beat UNI a couple days ago

Edit: without Shakir Bell

[Kemo]

Congrats, a, you have moved past ranking Chatty five spots ahead of Fordham, you have found a "scientific" "unbiased" way to exclude Fordham from your top 25. xrolleyesx
Your issues with my rankings of Fordham and Chatty have been noted.

I have no reason to have a bias for or against Fordham and Chatty, and I most certainly don't care enough about either team to try to create a scientific (I stated in my intro that it wasn't), unbiased (I also stated that the grades were based off my opinion) poll to lift Chatty and thwart Fordham.

[REALBird]

I have no issue with Illinois State, and agree with you on them, although if you look at each teams record vs. teams with Wins/Losses, I think IS has beat two teams with winning records, vs. CCU who has beat four. This is not to knock on IS, just saying there are many different ways to look at resumes.

Illinois State beat THEN #25 EIU, beat THEN #9 (current #22) SDSU, beat THEN #25 Missouri State, Beat THEN #22 Indiana State, who has moved up in the polls. I get what you're saying both teams have excellent resumes, and both are undefeated.....beating whoever is on your schedule is the ultimate goal.

My counter is that while we have beat two schools with winning records, aside from EIU (who is 3-1 in the OVC) I do believe, and MVSU & AP. Each week Illinois State is facing a ranked team in the polls. Due to the MVFC bloodbath, if we do as we should which is WIN, that THEN ranking takes a beating because those teams fall out of the polls.

We still have a ranked UNI left to play, a ranked YSU left to play, a team in SIU who was ranked for most of the season and USD who even though they're the worst team in the MVFC is capable of an upset.

I think that's I believe that Illinois State may not be getting it's due because it's not about how many ranked teams they BEAT, but how many fell out of the rankings as a result of losses. We can only play you when it's your turn on the schedule. Not that I think CCU is undeserving, but at the end of the day shouldn't the quality of the opponents you're playing week in/week out matter as much as whether you're keeping a ZERO in the loss column?

[kalm]

Yes

[rokamortis]

Illinois State beat THEN #25 EIU, beat THEN #9 (current #22) SDSU, beat THEN #25 Missouri State, Beat THEN #22 Indiana State, who has moved up in the polls. I get what you're saying both teams have excellent resumes, and both are undefeated.....beating whoever is on your schedule is the ultimate goal.

My counter is that while we have beat two schools with winning records, aside from EIU (who is 3-1 in the OVC) I do believe, and MVSU & AP. Each week Illinois State is facing a ranked team in the polls. Due to the MVFC bloodbath, if we do as we should which is WIN, that THEN ranking takes a beating because those teams fall out of the polls.

We still have a ranked UNI left to play, a ranked YSU left to play, a team in SIU who was ranked for most of the season and USD who even though they're the worst team in the MVFC is capable of an upset.

I think that's I believe that Illinois State may not be getting it's due because it's not about how many ranked teams they BEAT, but how many fell out of the rankings as a result of losses. We can only play you when it's your turn on the schedule. Not that I think CCU is undeserving, but at the end of the day shouldn't the quality of the opponents you're playing week in/week out matter as much as whether you're keeping a ZERO in the loss column?

Great post. I have you guys ranked higher than Coastal - I think you are killing it and am very impressed. If you are disrespected I have no idea why. Your resume is probably as strong as anyones.

Just my general philosophy: I think beating ranked opponents is great, but you have to look at the rankings at the end of the year. It really doesn't matter if a team was ranked or unranked during the season, but how they finish the season.

For example: in 2005 we beat then highly ranked JMU (may have been ranked #1, I can't recall) who was the defending national champion. That win lost some luster during the season and they didn't even make the playoffs.

[Beachdude]

Great post. I have you guys ranked higher than Coastal - I think you are killing it and am very impressed. If you are disrespected I have no idea why. Your resume is probably as strong as anyones.

Just my general philosophy: I think beating ranked opponents is great, but you have to look at the rankings at the end of the year. It really doesn't matter if a team was ranked or unranked during the season, but how they finish the season.

For example: in 2005 we beat then highly ranked JMU (may have been ranked #1, I can't recall) who was the defending national champion. That win lost some luster during the season and they didn't even make the playoffs.

I agree totally. I also think IS is ranked too low, and actually wouldn't have any issue with them being higher than CCU. Hat's off to IS and I hope they get the recognition they deserve.

[Sycamore62]

I have been skeptical of ISUr but I have to think they are worthy of a high ranking until someone proves they can beat them. If NDSU were not in the conference it would still be a solid conference so the fact they don't play doesn't change my opinion much.

I think its probable that they lose a game just because of college football but like I said, until they prove otherwise I think they have done enough to get my respect

[FordhamFan]

Illinois State beat THEN #25 EIU, beat THEN #9 (current #22) SDSU, beat THEN #25 Missouri State, Beat THEN #22 Indiana State, who has moved up in the polls. I get what you're saying both teams have excellent resumes, and both are undefeated.....beating whoever is on your schedule is the ultimate goal.

My counter is that while we have beat two schools with winning records, aside from EIU (who is 3-1 in the OVC) I do believe, and MVSU & AP. Each week Illinois State is facing a ranked team in the polls. Due to the MVFC bloodbath, if we do as we should which is WIN, that THEN ranking takes a beating because those teams fall out of the polls.

We still have a ranked UNI left to play, a ranked YSU left to play, a team in SIU who was ranked for most of the season and USD who even though they're the worst team in the MVFC is capable of an upset.

I think that's I believe that Illinois State may not be getting it's due because it's not about how many ranked teams they BEAT, but how many fell out of the rankings as a result of losses. We can only play you when it's your turn on the schedule. Not that I think CCU is undeserving, but at the end of the day shouldn't the quality of the opponents you're playing week in/week out matter as much as whether you're keeping a ZERO in the loss column?

No, it shouldn't. Winning should matter more than anything. Strength of schedule is the second most important thing when evaluating a team, but it has to come after what the team actually does! I genuinely believe Illinois State deserves a higher ranking than Coastal...they are both undefeated and Illinois State has beaten better teams. But when it comes to ranking one loss teams ahead of Coastal, unless that one loss is a good FBS one, I just can't buy it.

Winning should always, always come first. Don't over think it fellas.

[UNIFanSince1983]

No, it shouldn't. Winning should matter more than anything. Strength of schedule is the second most important thing when evaluating a team, but it has to come after what the team actually does! I genuinely believe Illinois State deserves a higher ranking than Coastal...they are both undefeated and Illinois State has beaten better teams. But when it comes to ranking one loss teams ahead of Coastal, unless that one loss is a good FBS one, I just can't buy it.

Winning should always, always come first. Don't over think it fellas.

So do you believe Marshall should be rated higher than say Alabama or Auburn in FBS?

[clenz]

So do you believe Marshall should be rated higher than say Alabama or Auburn in FBS?
Duh


BYU should schedule only nmsu, unm, army, etc... finish they'd win the national title every year

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[dgreco]

So do you believe Marshall should be rated higher than say Alabama or Auburn in FBS?

I feel like that's his point, Auburn and Alabama have loses to top teams, similar to an FCS team with only one loss to an FBS team -- or a top team like NDSU. So under his theory you would still have Alabama or Auburn above Marshall. Record comes first, then SOS. If the undefeated FCS team was Jacksonville or Sacred Heart people wouldn't say they should be #1 or #2, but when it is a school from a power conference (ISUr) the thinking is different.

Of course, I could be completely wrong.

[FordhamFan]

So do you believe Marshall should be rated higher than say Alabama or Auburn in FBS?

Good point, but that's imagining polls start from scratch every week. Bama started much higher (for a reason). CCU has been a top 10 team since the start of the year and all they have done is win....don't understand how that can really be disputed. Obviously, the difference between being ranked 3 or 4 or 5 in a poll in the middle of the season is minimal, but it feels like Coastal is just being crapped on for winning.

[kalm]

Good point, but that's imagining polls start from scratch every week. Bama started much higher (for a reason). CCU has been a top 10 team since the start of the year and all they have done is win....don't understand how that can really be disputed. Obviously, the difference between being ranked 3 or 4 or 5 in a poll in the middle of the season is minimal, but it feels like Coastal is just being crapped on for winning.

But where do you draw the line? Should an undefeated Sun Belt team be ranked ahead of a two loss 'Bama? How about a three or four loss Bama?

[MTfan4life]

But where do you draw the line? Should an undefeated Sun Belt team be ranked ahead of a two loss 'Bama? How about a three or four loss Bama?

I don't think this is a good analogy because the difference between Alabama and Marshall is a lot greater than the difference between Richmond or Eastern Washington and Fordham or Coastal Carolina. FCS has a lot more parity and the top teams of the power conferences are not head and shoulders above the top teams of the lesser conferences like they are in the FBS. Alabama would probably treat Marshall like it did Texas A&M. One FCS loss Richmond or one FCS loss Eastern Washington would have a really competitive game with each given year's Fordham. It's never good to try to compare the FBS and FCS in this way. xtwocentsx

[clenz]

I don't think this is a good analogy because the difference between Alabama and Marshall is a lot greater than the difference between Richmond or Eastern Washington and Fordham or Coastal Carolina. FCS has a lot more parity and the top teams of the power conferences are not head and shoulders above the top teams of the lesser conferences like they are in the FBS. Alabama would probably treat Marshall like it did Texas A&M. One FCS loss Richmond or one FCS loss Eastern Washington would have a really competitive game with each given year's Fordham. It's never good to try to compare the FBS and FCS in this way. xtwocentsx
Doesn't matter in the context of what started this.

The statement was record always trumps SOS.... ALWAYS

As proof


No, it shouldn't. Winning should matter more than anything. Strength of schedule is the second most important thing when evaluating a team, but it has to come after what the team actually does! I genuinely believe Illinois State deserves a higher ranking than Coastal...they are both undefeated and Illinois State has beaten better teams. But when it comes to ranking one loss teams ahead of Coastal, unless that one loss is a good FBS one, I just can't buy it.

Winning should always, always come first. Don't over think it fellas.



It doesn't matter if Alabamas water boys would treat Marshall like red headed step children, Marshall has a better record.

An team could run a gauntlet of Eastern Michigan, Georgia State, Southern Methodist, Troy, Kent State, New Mexico State, Idaho, UNLV, Miami (OH), Tulsa, Army and UMASS (the 12 worst rated FBS programs right now) and they should be ranked a head of a team that is 9-3 but has wins over 9 top 15 rated teams.


Similarly, to bring it to the FCS - a team that goes 12-0 against Davidson, Valpo, Savannah State, Stetson, Morehead State, MVSU, Campbell, Columbia, Jackson State, Ark Pine Bluff, Nicholls State and Houston Baptist should be ranked higher than a team that is 9-3 with wins against Eastern Washington, New Hampshire, Villanova, Jacksonville State, Richmond and 2 other ranked teams and the 3 losses were a 1 point loss at North Dakota State, a 3 point loss to to a ranked FBS team, and a 1 point loss to an unranked FBS team.


I mean...right?

Makes perfect sense?


Anyone else shocked that is a PL fan trying to use that logic?

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[Big_Fan]

Here is what I have. The last third or so has been tough the past few weeks. There are more teams that could justify positions there than there are positions available.

1: North Dakota State Bison
2: Villanova Wildcats
3: New Hampshire Wildcats
4: Illinois State Redbirds
5: Coastal Carolina Chanticleers
6: Eastern Washington Eagles
7: Jacksonville State Gamecocks
8: Eastern Kentucky Colonels
9: Youngstown State Penguins
10: Fordham Rams
11: Montana State Bobcats
12: Richmond Spiders
13: McNeese State Cowboys
14: Indiana State Sycamores
15: Bryant Bulldogs
16: Southeastern Louisiana Lions
17: William & Mary Tribe
18: Montana Grizzlies
19: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
20: Harvard Crimson
21: Albany Great Danes
22: Liberty Flames
23: Bethune-Cookman Wildcats
24: Chattanooga Mocs
25: Western Carolina Catamounts



See, this is a list I don't understand the logic of.

Jax ranked 7, behind a decidedly underwhelming Adams-less EW team, just one spot above an EKU team that lost at home to Tenn Tech (who Jax beat 49-3). I won't argue us being ranked below anyone else you have - though I think we are stronger than Coastal. ISU would be a good game. Nova and NH both look strong. NDSU is king of the world, until they lose a game.

I just don't see EKU as a top 10 team at this point. The Catamounts and Mocs are a bit low as well, though I can understand with the Cats having two D2 wins.

Fordham in the top 10 though? They don' t have a win over a team with a winning record... actually, they have 2 wins over teams with 0 wins, St. Francis (who has 1 D1 win), and 2 other teams with 1 win each.

I guess I shouldn't complain. It will all work itself out.

[REALBird]

FWIW....I am not championing Illinois State being ranked above Coastal. They've been ranked high all season, and has done nothing to lose that ranking. Illinois State is proving itself week in week out and moving up with every quality win.

NDSU no complaints. If you look at TSN, AGS and the Coaches poll, CCU, UNH and Villanova are consistently 2,3,4 across those polls. On average Illinois State is between 5th and 7th consistently. So for what its worth, I think were ranked about right at the moment.

I think Richmond is rated too high, as is Eastern Kentucky. Who the hell has EKU played? EWU is ranked too low in AGS. I'm sure if most teams lost their starting QB, they'd hope for the same consideration from the pollsters. A healthy Vernon Adams makes EKU every bit the dangerous team....yeah, yeah...they don't play defense. Well, with VA healthy few have outscored them.

Youngstown is rebounding well.....lots of parity in the middle of the polls. Bottom of the poll is a crap shoot.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Doesn't matter in the context of what started this.

The statement was record always trumps SOS.... ALWAYS


It doesn't matter if Alabamas water boys would treat Marshall like red headed step children, Marshall has a better record

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I don't get why some of you guys read things one way and can't open up your mind a bit to see what is being said?

He said wins come first, SOS comes after that. So how does that not make sense? Now a team that is 8-0 could easily be topped or even with a team that is 7-1 based on SOS. When you are looking at any single team....wins are first, who the beat is next. Then you compare this to every other teams resume. Not hard to see this in my mind?

[clenz]

I don't get why some of you guys read things one way and can't open up your mind a bit to see what is being said?

He said wins come first, SOS comes after that. So how does that not make sense? Now a team that is 8-0 could easily be topped or even with a team that is 7-1 based on SOS. When you are looking at any single team....wins are first, who the beat is next. Then you compare this to every other teams resume. Not hard to see this in my mind?

You're allowing for common sense to be used - he said (3 times) that winning/record comes first, ALWAYS. That means a zero loss team should ALWAYS be ranked a head of a 1 loss team in his mind. He left no room for wiggle. Record comes first, and then you judge SOS to compare teams of equal record.

Unless he wants to backtrack on his comments.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

You're allowing for common sense to be used - he said (3 times) that winning/record comes first, ALWAYS. That means a zero loss team should ALWAYS be ranked a head of a 1 loss team in his mind. He left no room for wiggle. Record comes first, and then you judge SOS to compare teams of equal record.

Unless he wants to backtrack on his comments.

I'll have to go re-read because that is not what I got out of it.

[Fordham]

I'll have to go re-read because that is not what I got out of it.

Nor did I. Otherwise there would not have been his mention of SOS being second most important as it would not have been mentioned at all. In those examples, imo, the record is the reason you absolutely take a look at a Marshall since their record is outstanding but then you layer in what the SOS is and you would never put Marshall over 'Bama given the teams each has had to play.

I'm not sure why it's so difficult to understand that both extremes are downright goofy. If all you take into account is record and you ignore SOS, it's absurd. However, so is taking only SOS into account and ignoring or ridiculously downplaying how a team actually performed on the field against who they played.

It's much more comforting to work in black and white but the fact is that the some sort of judgment is required at the end of the day and that makes it more grey than black and white imo. Some people just get uncomfortable when dealing in grey.

[kalm]

Nor did I. Otherwise there would not have been his mention of SOS being second most important as it would not have been mentioned at all. In those examples, imo, the record is the reason you absolutely take a look at a Marshall since their record is outstanding but then you layer in what the SOS is and you would never put Marshall over 'Bama given the teams each has had to play.

I'm not sure why it's so difficult to understand that both extremes are downright goofy. If all you take into account is record and you ignore SOS, it's absurd. However, so is taking only SOS into account and ignoring or ridiculously downplaying how a team actually performed on the field against who they played.

It's much more comforting to work in black and white but the fact is that the some sort of judgment is required at the end of the day and that makes it more grey than black and white imo. Some people just get uncomfortable when dealing in grey.

This has been my point all along. I don't recall anyone saying that all you should look at is SoS. It's a given that record is going to come first. But SoS is not exclusive of performance on the field, rather, SoS is a huge factor of on-field performance and should be taken mutually into consideration.

I would also point out that most people are going to make safe assumptions. For example, are most voters going to check out every 3-0 team in the country early in the season? It might not be fair, but it's reality.

[rokamortis]

It's much more comforting to work in black and white but the fact is that the some sort of judgment is required at the end of the day and that makes it more grey than black and white imo. Some people just get uncomfortable when dealing in grey.

Some people like to make black / white arguments just because it is easier to make a case for their team / conference. Some people try to spin the facts to make their argument look good when in fact we should look at everything. When you talk about grey then you have to start giving your competition credit and that defeats the purpose of their argument.

[kalm]

I agree!

For instance, arguing that Team X from Conference Y is most deserving because every team in Conference Y is .500 or better at one point in the season. xsmiley_wix

[rokamortis]

I agree!

For instance, arguing that Team X from Conference Y is most deserving because every team in Conference Y is .500 or better at one point in the season. xsmiley_wix

That's a good example. Or how about teams that do not have winning records are really good because they played tough competition. Or a team was ranked at one point so that win is a 'good' one. Or teams from Conference X are traditionally strong and have history so they are obviously better in the current year, that's another good one.

[kalm]

That's a good example. Or how about teams that do not have winning records are really good because they played tough competition. Or a team was ranked at one point so that win is a 'good' one. Or teams from Conference X are traditionally strong and have history so they are obviously better in the current year, that's another good one.

:D

[TheRevSFA]

McNeese is much too high.

A team who lost to a team who was beat by NW State and CSU-Pueblo?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

W/L record should be considered, but shouldn't be the sole basis of judgement. How hard was that?

[Bisonator]

Who has UNH #1 and why?

Still waiting.........

[BisonBacker]

McNeese is much too high.

A team who lost to a team who was beat by NW State and CSU-Pueblo?

I think they are reaping the benefit of the game against Nebraska and how impressive that was. At some point tho that fades and it becomes what have you done for me lately to show you deserve to be ranked at a particular position. For some that point already got here for others maybe its still not here. UNI was another example of that but their record caught up with them.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Early in the season I might give a pass or higher rating with a "quality loss" to an FBS school, but as the season drags on you need to show me actual wins in order to stay up there. As a conference the SLC has a massive problem with this: no quality OOC wins as a conference, and some real doozies in regards to OOC losses.

[kalm]

Early in the season I might give a pass or higher rating with a "quality loss" to an FBS school, but as the season drags on you need to show me actual wins in order to stay up there. As a conference the SLC has a massive problem with this: no quality OOC wins as a conference, and some real doozies in regards to OOC losses.

Depends on your definition of "quality win", but don't all conferences suffer this for most part...with exception being the MVFC?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Depends on your definition of "quality win", but don't all conferences suffer this for most part...with exception being the MVFC?

To some degree. Personally I think the MVFC teams get this tag too often on certain games (I do not consider any wins over Missouri State as "quality wins"), but other conferences, like the CAA and BSC, generally have enough OOC success to justify being up there as well. The BSo this season too has some pretty good wins as well.

[BisonBacker]

To some degree. Personally I think the MVFC teams get this tag too often on certain games (I do not consider any wins over Missouri State as "quality wins"), but other conferences, like the CAA and BSC, generally have enough OOC success to justify being up there as well. The BSo this season too has some pretty good wins as well.

Then you don't follow FCS football or just flat out don't have a clue.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Then you don't follow FCS football or just flat out don't have a clue.

xlolx

Those wins against SLC also-rans and UND and USD impress you, huh?

[clenz]

xlolx

Those wins against SLC also-rans and UND and USD impress you, huh?
More than any Patriot or Big South wins...

Keep in mind USD handled NAU pretty easily.

It's not USD's fault that they are an MVFC team

[Lehigh Football Nation]

More than any Patriot or Big South wins...

Keep in mind USD handled NAU pretty easily.

It's not USD's fault that they are an MVFC team

Note I didn't mention the PL in my criticism of Missouri State as a "quality win". I freely admit that the PL has no quality OOC wins this season, or at least until Fordham beats Army to close the regular season.

This year the PL is Fordham and everyone else, and if Bucknell goes 9-2 they will be hard-pressed to get an at-large because they don't have a great OOC resume. IMO they need to win the PL in order to make it.

I don't think it will come to that - I feel Fordham is too strong and will finish 10-1.

[semobison]

To some degree. Personally I think the MVFC teams get this tag too often on certain games (I do not consider any wins over Missouri State as "quality wins"), but other conferences, like the CAA and BSC, generally have enough OOC success to justify being up there as well. The BSo this season too has some pretty good wins as well.

The only team in the Valley that I wouldn't call a quality win would probably be USD and they beat NAU who just beat EWU. For MVFC teams this season a conference win is a quality win!

[FordhamFan]

You're allowing for common sense to be used - he said (3 times) that winning/record comes first, ALWAYS. That means a zero loss team should ALWAYS be ranked a head of a 1 loss team in his mind. He left no room for wiggle. Record comes first, and then you judge SOS to compare teams of equal record.

Unless he wants to backtrack on his comments.

I definitely used the word always, but I didn't intend it to mean what you are trying to say it meant. Ursus kind of nailed it honestly...it just feels like teams from good conferences whose record doesn't always represent exactly how good they are always want to pound teams that actually win. Which I would do too if I was a UNI fan, but just like it's not USD's or UNI's or anybody's fault they play in the toughest conference, it's not Lehigh or Fordham's or Coastal's fault they play in easier conferences.

It's pretty obvious a guy like me that roots for Fordham is going to want to focus on actually winning games while a guy like you who roots for UNI is going to want to point out that we don't play anybody while UNI is doing their best against some of the top teams in the nation. I get it, and as somebody said it all plays itself out eventually when Fordham loses to or beats a two or three loss CAA team in the playoffs, but the point was I think too many teams just get thrown out the window because they don't play a ridiculous schedule. I like to credit teams for winning at least a little bit, even if it is against lesser teams.

[citdog]

Note I didn't mention the PL in my criticism of Missouri State as a "quality win". I freely admit that the PL has no quality OOC wins this season, or at least until Fordham beats Army to close the regular season.

This year the PL is Fordham and everyone else, and if Bucknell goes 9-2 they will be hard-pressed to get an at-large because they don't have a great OOC resume. IMO they need to win the PL in order to make it.

I don't think it will come to that - I feel Fordham is too strong and will finish 10-1.

Beating hudson high is NOT a quality win. That's what's wrong with you patsy league fellers. You have NO IDEA what a GOOD team looks like.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

When it comes to at-large bids for the playoffs it's all about who can win the national title imo. The fact that no one in the MVFC can beat NDSU or really come close raises some eyebrows. The reason the MVFC is not the SEC of FCS is the lack of parity. No one gets get out of the SEC undefeated.

[kalm]

I definitely used the word always, but I didn't intend it to mean what you are trying to say it meant. Ursus kind of nailed it honestly...it just feels like teams from good conferences whose record doesn't always represent exactly how good they are always want to pound teams that actually win. Which I would do too if I was a UNI fan, but just like it's not USD's or UNI's or anybody's fault they play in the toughest conference, it's not Lehigh or Fordham's or Coastal's fault they play in easier conferences.

It's pretty obvious a guy like me that roots for Fordham is going to want to focus on actually winning games while a guy like you who roots for UNI is going to want to point out that we don't play anybody while UNI is doing their best against some of the top teams in the nation. I get it, and as somebody said it all plays itself out eventually when Fordham loses to or beats a two or three loss CAA team in the playoffs, but the point was I think too many teams just get thrown out the window because they don't play a ridiculous schedule. I like to credit teams for winning at least a little bit, even if it is against lesser teams.

And there's the rub. Nobody is saying its Fordham's or CCU's fault for having a weak schedule but we're talking playoff selection here and at some point you have to compare the level of competition.

So far in this thread we've heard that Missouri State isn't a good win and NAU is a bad loss.

Compared to what?

[semobison]

When it comes to at-large bids for the playoffs it's all about who can win the national title imo. The fact that no one in the MVFC can beat NDSU or really come close raises some eyebrows. The reason the MVFC is not the SEC of FCS is the lack of parity. No one gets get out of the SEC undefeated.

1. Nobody in the country has beaten NDSU in over two years and that's including 2 Big 12 teams!
2. The MVFC went 23-1 this season in FCS OOC games!

I don't like to call the Valley the SEC of FCS. The SEC has divisions etc...But this season the MVFC is hands down the best conference in FCS.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

And there's the rub. Nobody is saying its Fordham's or CCU's fault for having a weak schedule but we're talking playoff selection here and at some point you have to compare the level of competition.

So far in this thread we've heard that Missouri State isn't a good win and NAU is a bad loss.

Compared to what?

I don't think CCU's schedule is "weak" at all. SC State and North Carolina A&T are solid opponents and Liberty, Presby and Monmouth are good conference games. Furman turning out to be dud didn't help but so what? Some things you can't control.....

Fordham isn't getting any help from their league relative to CCU. Villanova and Army are two good OOC games but that's really all they have. The 50-6 loss to VU is also doing them no favors. Even so, if the two played tomorrow Villanova would probably be a 10 point favorite. What Fordham has to fall back on is dominance. They're taking apart inferior teams like they should....

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Still waiting.........

He apparently doesn't want to stand behind it or argue it out but I will tell you that it is not a UNH fan because that wouldn't be allowed.

[clenz]

I definitely used the word always, but I didn't intend it to mean what you are trying to say it meant. Ursus kind of nailed it honestly...it just feels like teams from good conferences whose record doesn't always represent exactly how good they are always want to pound teams that actually win. Which I would do too if I was a UNI fan, but just like it's not USD's or UNI's or anybody's fault they play in the toughest conference, it's not Lehigh or Fordham's or Coastal's fault they play in easier conferences.

It's pretty obvious a guy like me that roots for Fordham is going to want to focus on actually winning games while a guy like you who roots for UNI is going to want to point out that we don't play anybody while UNI is doing their best against some of the top teams in the nation. I get it, and as somebody said it all plays itself out eventually when Fordham loses to or beats a two or three loss CAA team in the playoffs, but the point was I think too many teams just get thrown out the window because they don't play a ridiculous schedule. I like to credit teams for winning at least a little bit, even if it is against lesser teams.
Ah, but where have I said anything about UNI not being ranked properly/too low/not getting respect?

Notice I haven't done that this year. In past years UNI had real good OOC wins, or was the only team that could even remotely come close to being competitive with NDSU. This year UNI had it's chance OOC with 2 FBS games (lost both by 1 possession) and absolutely demolished the teams they should have. They've since gone on to lose by 1 score to 2 ranked conference teams.

For years I ragged on Missouri State fans saying that they weren't as bad as their record because they played games close. I told them, repeatedly, that good times find ways to win close games. Well, UNI is 0-4 in 1 score games this season and something like 6-17 in the last 23 1 score games. Clearly UNI isn't a good team right now. Having said that, UNI's "bad" is still a lot better than the majority of teams programs "good".

I don't give much credit to beating up on a crap schedule - just as you don't want to for UNI having a terrible set of OOC wins. I would take a 8-4 or 9-3 MVFC/CAA/Big Sky team over a 10-2 Patriot/Big South/MEAC team 98% of the time because of the strength.

A loss doesn't show the team isn't good, it could just be that on any given saturday in a conference like the MVFC/CAA/Big Sky the teams are so close that anything can happen. Unlike in the MEAC/Big South (traditionally)/Patriot where there is not that same quality of play top to bottom and the bottom isn't near good enough to challenge anyone.



As kalm said, when it comes to playoff selection quality of play has to come into account every bit as much as record. It's why Lehigh has been 10-1 and 8-3 the last 2 years but been left out. I give WAY more credit/credence to teams that have to prove themselves over and over and over through the season rather than a team that has 1 or 2 games that could/should challenge them.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Ah, but where have I said anything about UNI not being ranked properly/too low/not getting respect?

Notice I haven't done that this year. In past years UNI had real good OOC wins, or was the only team that could even remotely come close to being competitive with NDSU. This year UNI had it's chance OOC with 2 FBS games (lost both by 1 possession) and absolutely demolished the teams they should have. They've since gone on to lose by 1 score to 2 ranked conference teams.

For years I ragged on Missouri State fans saying that they weren't as bad as their record because they played games close. I told them, repeatedly, that good times find ways to win close games. Well, UNI is 0-4 in 1 score games this season and something like 6-17 in the last 23 1 score games. Clearly UNI isn't a good team right now. Having said that, UNI's "bad" is still a lot better than the majority of teams programs "good".

I don't give much credit to beating up on a crap schedule - just as you don't want to for UNI having a terrible set of OOC wins. I would take a 8-4 or 9-3 MVFC/CAA/Big Sky team over a 10-2 Patriot/Big South/MEAC team 98% of the time because of the strength.

A loss doesn't show the team isn't good, it could just be that on any given saturday in a conference like the MVFC/CAA/Big Sky the teams are so close that anything can happen. Unlike in the MEAC/Big South (traditionally)/Patriot where there is not that same quality of play top to bottom and the bottom isn't near good enough to challenge anyone.



As kalm said, when it comes to playoff selection quality of play has to come into account every bit as much as record. It's why Lehigh has been 10-1 and 8-3 the last 2 years but been left out. I give WAY more credit/credence to teams that have to prove themselves over and over and over through the season rather than a team that has 1 or 2 games that could/should challenge them.

But PL teams have been rewarded in the past (multiple-bids, home games, Colgate was a seed etc.) and have traditionally played pretty good OOC schedules. The problem is, the league has big time ups and downs. In 2011 Lehigh had that same 10-1 record but received a bye. Interesting that Lehigh had won playoff games the previous two years prior to 2012 and has historical success. Honestly, I think the selection committee was po'd that Lehigh allowed Spadola to play against Towson....

[UNIFanSince1983]

So because I think Fordham and CCU are ranked too high because they haven't proven anything yet it gets thrown at me about UNI.

The fact of the matter is I have stated numerous times UNI doesn't deserve to be ranked. They have beat the weak teams on their schedule and lost to the good teams on their schedule same as both Fordham and CCU. Fordham has played one good team all season and got beat by 44 points. Tell me how that warrants a #11 ranking?

I have a problem with people saying well CCU started high and have done nothing to move down. At this point in the season you should look at the resume. I think ISUr, JSU, EWU, Richmond, and Montana St all have better resumes at this point to CCU. I can see where this might piss someone off, but this is my opinion. In the end if they are deserving of this ranking they can show me in the playoffs. They have done what they should in beating all the bad/mediocre teams they have played, but I would put those other teams ahead of them.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

So because I think Fordham and CCU are ranked too high because they haven't proven anything yet it gets thrown at me about UNI.

The fact of the matter is I have stated numerous times UNI doesn't deserve to be ranked. They have beat the weak teams on their schedule and lost to the good teams on their schedule same as both Fordham and CCU. Fordham has played one good team all season and got beat by 44 points. Tell me how that warrants a #11 ranking?

I have a problem with people saying well CCU started high and have done nothing to move down. At this point in the season you should look at the resume. I think ISUr, JSU, EWU, Richmond, and Montana St all have better resumes at this point to CCU. I can see where this might piss someone off, but this is my opinion. In the end if they are deserving of this ranking they can show me in the playoffs. They have done what they should in beating all the bad/mediocre teams they have played, but I would put those other teams ahead of them.

I think it comes down to how you rank. For me, it ultimately comes down to how high of a ceiling you believe each team has and the players on that particular team. Part of that thinking is related to my college hoops fandom. As a UNI fan you should understand.....

[BisonTru]

When it comes to at-large bids for the playoffs it's all about who can win the national title imo. The fact that no one in the MVFC can beat NDSU or really come close raises some eyebrows. The reason the MVFC is not the SEC of FCS is the lack of parity. No one gets get out of the SEC undefeated.

Here are some facts that raise my eyebrows:

Currently the 9th placed team in the MVFC, WIU took a 7 point lead into the fourth quarter vs. NDSU.

UNI, deemed not-worthy of a playoff seat, was the only FCS team to play NDSU close last year.

In almost 4 years no team outside of the MVFC has beaten NDSU, and the only two who were close are Kansas State and Georgia Southern (now both FBS).

With four conference games left, I think it is a little early to claim no team from the MVFC can beat NDSU.

[clenz]

I think it comes down to how you rank. For me, it ultimately comes down to how high of a ceiling you believe each team has and the players on that particular team. Part of that thinking is related to my college hoops fandom. As a UNI fan you should understand.....
Again, what does UNI have to do with any of this?

If it's about ceiling based on talent UNI is a top 10 team - are you willing to put UNI in the top 10?

The fact is, UNI has done nothing to be ranked very high, if at all.

Stop bringing UNI into this.

[clenz]

Here are some facts that raise my eyebrows:

Currently the 9th placed team in the MVFC, WIU took a 7 point lead into the fourth quarter vs. NDSU.

UNI, deemed not-worthy of a playoff seat, was the only FCS team to play NDSU close last year.

In almost 4 years no team outside of the MVFC has beaten NDSU, and the only two who were close are Kansas State and Georgia Southern (now both FBS).

With four conference games left, I think it is a little early to claim no team from the MVFC can beat NDSU.
That same UNI team throttled an FBS team and a team that ended up being a seed in the playoffs, too, BTW. However, the MVFC is a bear and it cost UNI some games.

Last years UNI, SDSU and SIU teams likely rip through the Patriot league with zero issues.

[Bisonator]

He apparently doesn't want to stand behind it or argue it out but I will tell you that it is not a UNH fan because that wouldn't be allowed.

I know. I'm guessing either a UND or EWU fan.

[kalm]

I don't think CCU's schedule is "weak" at all. SC State and North Carolina A&T are solid opponents and Liberty, Presby and Monmouth are good conference games. Furman turning out to be dud didn't help but so what? Some things you can't control.....

Fordham isn't getting any help from their league relative to CCU. Villanova and Army are two good OOC games but that's really all they have. The 50-6 loss to VU is also doing them no favors. Even so, if the two played tomorrow Villanova would probably be a 10 point favorite. What Fordham has to fall back on is dominance. They're taking apart inferior teams like they should....

Again, if you only go off of records. A&T's best win is against Elon and SCSU's best win is against Furman. They have literally nothing after that. I'll grant you PC and Liberty may raise CCU's profile a bit, but no more so than 7-5, 8-4ish BSC, MVFC, or CAA teams would. And Monmouth's schedule is just like A&T's and SCSU's. Winning…but nothing approaching a quality win.

[Houndawg]

who beat UNI a couple days ago

Edit: without Shakir Bell

xembarrassedx

Dayum, clenz.... you gonna take that layin' down?

[Beachdude]

.... They have beat the weak teams on their schedule and lost to the good teams on their schedule same as both Fordham and CCU.



Incorrect....CCU is undefeated so far this year, and is in fact 24-1 over the past 25 regular season games vs. FCS opponents, and 3-2 in the playoffs over the past two years. Granted, CCU's opposition this year has been weaker than anticipated at the beginning of the season, of no fault of their own, but they have done what they are supposed to do, win the games they are supposed to win, and win even when having a terrible game as they have a couple of times this season. That being said, realistically, I do think they are a little too high, and I have them around 5th. Just sayin'......

[Houndawg]

When it comes to at-large bids for the playoffs it's all about who can win the national title imo. The fact that no one in the MVFC can beat NDSU or really come close raises some eyebrows. The reason the MVFC is not the SEC of FCS is the lack of parity. No one gets get out of the SEC undefeated.

What do those eyebrows do when they consider that those teams that can't beat NDSU are 20-1 OOC?

[ursus arctos horribilis]

I know. I'm guessing either a UND or EWU fan.

No dude. Some of you guys really should set aside some of that conspiracy stuff. It ain't that.

[Cocky]

1. Nobody in the country has beaten NDSU in over two years and that's including 2 Big 12 teams!
2. The MVFC went 23-1 this season in FCS OOC games!

I don't like to call the Valley the SEC of FCS. The SEC has divisions etc...But this season the MVFC is hands down the best conference in FCS.

With wins against:
Weber St 0-8
Incarnate Word 1-7
Montana 5-3
Mississippi Valley St 2-6
EIU (2) 3-5
Austin Peay 1-7
Duquesne 5-3
Butler 3-5
St Francis 3-5
Tenn Tech (2) 3-5
Liberty 5-3
Cal Poly 5-3
Southern Utah 2-7
UW-Wisconsin 3-4
Northern Colorado 2-6
Taylor ?-?
Northwestern St 3-5
North Dakota 3-5
Central Arkansas 5-4
Valparasio 2-6
Drake 5-3
William Penn ?-?
Northern Arizona 5-3

of the 24 games the MVC had a chance of losing maybe 8 of the games (7-1), 5 of those the opponent had a winning record (4-1). 7 wins against teams with a winning record (of the ones I could find).

The best thing about the MVC OOC schedule was discovering some universities I did not know existed.

[Bisonator]

No dude. Some of you guys really should set aside some of that conspiracy stuff. It ain't that.

OK then was he asked for his rationale as to why he would put UNH ahead of NDSU and Nova? And what was the answer??

[KUlawJack]

With wins against:
Weber St 0-8
Incarnate Word 1-7
Montana 5-3
Mississippi Valley St 2-6
EIU (2) 3-5
Austin Peay 1-7
Duquesne 5-3
Butler 3-5
St Francis 3-5
Tenn Tech (2) 3-5
Liberty 5-3
Cal Poly 5-3
Southern Utah 2-7
UW-Wisconsin 3-4
Northern Colorado 2-6
Taylor ?-?
Northwestern St 3-5
North Dakota 3-5
Central Arkansas 5-4
Valparasio 2-6
Drake 5-3
William Penn ?-?
Northern Arizona 5-3

of the 24 games the MVC had a chance of losing maybe 8 of the games (7-1), 5 of those the opponent had a winning record (4-1). 7 wins against teams with a winning record (of the ones I could find).

The best thing about the MVC OOC schedule was discovering some universities I did not know existed.

23-1 is 23-1 against FCS opponents. Let's do some OOC quality win analysis:

NDSU - FBS Blowout; Montana; Remain undefeated in conference
ISU-R - Nothing to speak of OOC, but won them all (if you aren't counting your conference mate EIU); Remain undefeated in conference.
YSU - Nothing to speak of OOC, but won them all
ISU-B - FBS win; Liberty (also beat the **** out of another of your conference mates)
SDSU - Cal Poly
UNI - None (also beat the **** out another of your conference mates)
SIU - Beat the hell out of two of your conference mates (EIU and SEMO)
MSU - UCA and Northwestern State (they're 4-4 by the way with an FBS win)
WIU - None
USD - NAU

Now, let's compare quality wins of your conference:

Jacksonville State - UTC
EKU - Miami (Ohio)
EIU - None (0-4 OOC)
UT-Martin - None (likely 1-3 OOC)
SEMO - SELA
TTU - None
Murray State - None
Austin Peay - None
Tennessee State - None

I also discovered a number of schools I didn't know existed looking at your conference's OOC. The OVC has Jacksonville State and that is it. Don't rag on our conference OOC wins, whose bottom feeder team knocked off a Big Sky title challenger when yours looks like that.

[MTfan4life]

I know. I'm guessing either a UND or EWU fan.

xlolx To an outsider it's rather evident that on this site that some NDSU fans care about and dislike EWU A LOT more than EWU fans care about NDSU. An Eastern fan could speak better about this, but from who I know, NDSU isn't even on their radar of hated teams.

[UNIFanSince1983]

Incorrect....CCU is undefeated so far this year, and is in fact 24-1 over the past 25 regular season games vs. FCS opponents, and 3-2 in the playoffs over the past two years. Granted, CCU's opposition this year has been weaker than anticipated at the beginning of the season, of no fault of their own, but they have done what they are supposed to do, win the games they are supposed to win, and win even when having a terrible game as they have a couple of times this season. That being said, realistically, I do think they are a little too high, and I have them around 5th. Just sayin'......

So you obviously didn't get what I said. CCU has not played a good team this year. Their ranking this year should have nothing to do with last year. Does this mean they can't beat good teams? Of course not it just to this point you haven't played a good team. Luckily, enough for you guys you haven't lost to the bad/mediocre teams you have played to this point. I know it isn't your fault that Furman or Citadel blow this year, but why should i prop you up because you played a team you thought would be good. Turns out those teams aren't good. I have no animosity towards CCU I just think they should be more around the 8-10 area to this point.

[clenz]

xembarrassedx

Dayum, clenz.... you gonna take that layin' down?
If he wants to start comparing resumes with UNI...well...






1

W

09-10-1983

26

Terre Haute, IN

0





2

L

10-12-1985

7

Cedar Falls, IA

24





3

L

11-15-1986

10

Cedar Falls, IA

45





4

L

09-26-1987

14

Terre Haute, IN

38





5

W

10-29-1988

24

Cedar Falls, IA

6





6

L

10-14-1989

21

Terre Haute, IN

24





7

W

10-20-1990

33

Terre Haute, IN

23





8

L

11-09-1991

21

Cedar Falls, IA

49





9

L

10-31-1992

13

Terre Haute, IN

34





10

L

10-09-1993

10

Cedar Falls, IA

17





11

L

10-01-1994

10

Terre Haute, IN

11





12

L

10-14-1995

10

Cedar Falls, IA

27





13

L

11-09-1996

19

Terre Haute, IN

34





14

L

11-15-1997

21

Cedar Falls, IA

29

3 OT



15

L

10-31-1998

28

Terre Haute, IN

31





16

L

10-30-1999

21

Cedar Falls, IA

44





17

L

10-21-2000

17

Terre Haute, IN

49





18

L

11-03-2001

13

Cedar Falls, IA

34





19

W

11-02-2002

21

Terre Haute, IN

19





20

L

10-11-2003

14

Cedar Falls, IA

22





21

L

11-06-2004

6

Terre Haute, IN

58





22

L

10-15-2005

10

Cedar Falls, IA

31





23

L

10-14-2006

14

Terre Haute, IN

34





24

L

11-10-2007

14

Cedar Falls, IA

68





25

L

11-15-2008

0

Terre Haute, IN

28





26

L

10-03-2009

7

Cedar Falls, IA

62





27

L

11-06-2010

20

Terre Haute, IN

30





28
29


L

10-08-2011

9

Cedar Falls, IA

23














433

Totals

894



If we include this year is 5-24 and the points get a bit closer at 453-913

Average score of a UNI game is 32-14 in favor or UNI...

[Beachdude]

So you obviously didn't get what I said. CCU has not played a good team this year. Their ranking this year should have nothing to do with last year. Does this mean they can't beat good teams? Of course not it just to this point you haven't played a good team. Luckily, enough for you guys you haven't lost to the bad/mediocre teams you have played to this point. I know it isn't your fault that Furman or Citadel blow this year, but why should i prop you up because you played a team you thought would be good. Turns out those teams aren't good. I have no animosity towards CCU I just think they should be more around the 8-10 area to this point.

I was just correcting you when you said that CCU had lost to the good teams this year. No one is looking for you to 'prop' us up. I even said I think they are too high.

[Bisonator]

xlolx To an outsider it's rather evident that on this site that some NDSU fans care about and dislike EWU A LOT more than EWU fans care about NDSU. An Eastern fan could speak better about this, but from who I know, NDSU isn't even on their radar of hated teams.

Pretty sure the dislike is fairly mutual. :D

No matter I would simply like to know the rationale for placing UNH #1.

I think it's a fair question.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Pretty sure the dislike is fairly mutual. :D

No matter I would simply like to know the rationale for placing UNH #1.

I think it's a fair question.

Well I'd imagine it's the same rationale that would put Nova at #1. Now do I personally think it strong...not really but it's enough to stand on and that's all it takes really. Unless it's apparent someone does not know what they are doing or if it looks like they are trying to homer a vote and skew the poll then almost all votes are accepted but if you are putting someone at #1 then there should be an argument to be made and there is one here...a weak one if you are of the opinion I am but it doesn't seem weak to another.

[Cocky]

23-1 is 23-1 against FCS opponents. Let's do some OOC quality win analysis:

NDSU - FBS Blowout; Montana; Remain undefeated in conference
ISU-R - Nothing to speak of OOC, but won them all (if you aren't counting your conference mate EIU); Remain undefeated in conference.
YSU - Nothing to speak of OOC, but won them all
ISU-B - FBS win; Liberty (also beat the **** out of another of your conference mates)
SDSU - Cal Poly
UNI - None (also beat the **** out another of your conference mates)
SIU - Beat the hell out of two of your conference mates (EIU and SEMO)
MSU - UCA and Northwestern State (they're 4-4 by the way with an FBS win)
WIU - None
USD - NAU

Now, let's compare quality wins of your conference:

Jacksonville State - UTC
EKU - Miami (Ohio)
EIU - None (0-4 OOC)
UT-Martin - None (likely 1-3 OOC)
SEMO - SELA
TTU - None
Murray State - None
Austin Peay - None
Tennessee State - None

I also discovered a number of schools I didn't know existed looking at your conference's OOC. The OVC has Jacksonville State and that is it. Don't rag on our conference OOC wins, whose bottom feeder team knocked off a Big Sky title challenger when yours looks like that.

How many OVC posters are on here posting about how great it was for us to beat the sisters of the poor? Probably close to zero.

[UNIFanSince1983]

How many OVC posters are on here posting about how great it was for us to beat the sisters of the poor? Probably close to zero.

Is that because your conference consists of the Sisters of the Poor this year?

[clenz]

Is that because your conference consists of the Sisters of the Poor 99.9% of years
FIFY

[citdog]

If he wants to start comparing resumes with UNI...well...






1


W


09-10-1983


26


Terre Haute, IN


0





2


L


10-12-1985


7


Cedar Falls, IA


24





3


L


11-15-1986


10


Cedar Falls, IA


45





4


L


09-26-1987


14


Terre Haute, IN


38





5


W


10-29-1988


24


Cedar Falls, IA


6





6


L


10-14-1989


21


Terre Haute, IN


24





7


W


10-20-1990


33


Terre Haute, IN


23





8


L


11-09-1991


21


Cedar Falls, IA


49





9


L


10-31-1992


13


Terre Haute, IN


34





10


L


10-09-1993


10


Cedar Falls, IA


17





11


L


10-01-1994


10


Terre Haute, IN


11





12


L


10-14-1995


10


Cedar Falls, IA


27





13


L


11-09-1996


19


Terre Haute, IN


34





14


L


11-15-1997


21


Cedar Falls, IA


29


3 OT




15


L


10-31-1998


28


Terre Haute, IN


31





16


L


10-30-1999


21


Cedar Falls, IA


44





17


L


10-21-2000


17


Terre Haute, IN


49





18


L


11-03-2001


13


Cedar Falls, IA


34





19


W


11-02-2002


21


Terre Haute, IN


19





20


L


10-11-2003


14


Cedar Falls, IA


22





21


L


11-06-2004


6


Terre Haute, IN


58





22


L


10-15-2005


10


Cedar Falls, IA


31





23


L


10-14-2006


14


Terre Haute, IN


34





24


L


11-10-2007


14


Cedar Falls, IA


68





25


L


11-15-2008


0


Terre Haute, IN


28





26


L


10-03-2009


7


Cedar Falls, IA


62





27


L


11-06-2010


20


Terre Haute, IN


30





28
29



L


10-08-2011


9


Cedar Falls, IA


23














433


Totals


894




If we include this year is 5-24 and the points get a bit closer at 453-913

Average score of a UNI game is 32-14 in favor or UNI...


Damn Indiana State needs posters. Here is a perfect opportunity for you to post the pic of the scoreboard........

[clenz]

Damn Indiana State needs posters. Here is a perfect opportunity for you to post the pic of the scoreboard........
They get like 4 people to their games...

[Cocky]

FIFY
Those sisters had a winning record against your great MVC last year.

[kalm]

Pretty sure the dislike is fairly mutual. :D

No matter I would simply like to know the rationale for placing UNH #1.

I think it's a fair question.

Why would an eastern fan dislike the Bison?

[Cocky]

Is that because your conference consists of the Sisters of the Poor this year?
No we just realize there is no sense in bragging about games you should win. Haven't kept up that closely but maybe most MVC teams have had trouble winning those games in the past.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Why would an eastern fan dislike the Bison?

I've really only noticed from one EWU fan. Gotta agree it doesn't seem like EWU fans care more or less about the Bison as far as dislike goes.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

What do those eyebrows do when they consider that those teams that can't beat NDSU are 20-1 OOC?

I don't think we're going to see a Final 4 or Finals stacked with MVFC teams.

[tomq04]

I've really only noticed from one EWU fan. Gotta agree it doesn't seem like EWU fans care more or less about the Bison as far as dislike goes.

Pretty sure we only care about the Griz and the Cats regardless of our PSU "Rivalry"

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Again, what does UNI have to do with any of this?

If it's about ceiling based on talent UNI is a top 10 team - are you willing to put UNI in the top 10?

The fact is, UNI has done nothing to be ranked very high, if at all.

Stop bringing UNI into this.

You're not at all understanding the context of it. UNI's hoops team can easily be perceived "weaker" by being in the MVC when in fact they aren't. How good you are relative to conference mates ultimately means nothing. You can have an elite team but play "weak" teams relative to the power conferences and succeed at an ultra-high level. It's about the program, not the conference you play in imo. Just like UNLV in the Big West under the Shark or Gonzaga in the WCC, Butler Horizon or Wichita State now in the MVC. I often bring college hoops in to my convo, for better or worse. But I believe the two are quite related....

I obviously look at teams in a difference perspective than some. Once again, nothing to do with UNI....

[clenz]

The MVC has been in the top 11 in RPI every year since 2003.

5 different teams have S16 appearnces

So...

While it isn't a P5 conference...it's not what you're making it to be.

Hell, if Creighton could ever find a way to not **** the bed come march (AHAHAHAHAHAH...yeah, that will never happen) there'd be a lot more success in March.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

The MVC has been in the top 11 in RPI every year since 2003.

5 different teams have S16 appearnces

So...

While it isn't a P5 conference...it's not what you're making it to be.

Hell, if Creighton could ever find a way to not **** the bed come march (AHAHAHAHAHAH...yeah, that will never happen) there'd be a lot more success in March.

They're good but always being Top 11 is still a far cry from the power conference. If you took those numbers to a major hoops message hoops board (espn back in the day) you would face the same criticism those from the PL, Big South, OVC, IL, MEAC etc see on here.

Most objective pre-season reviews talk about the MVC taking a step back the last 2-3 years, especially with Creighton going to the Big East, and how it relates to the Shockers. I'm starting to get geared up for opening night so I've been doing my homework...

[clenz]

They're good but an average of 11th is still a far cry from the power conference. If you took those numbers to a major hoops message hoops board (espn back in the day) you would face the same criticism those from the PL, Big South, OVC, IL, MEAC etc see on here.

Most objective pre-season reviews talk about the MVC taking a step back the last 2-3 years, especially with Creighton going to the Big East, and how it relates to the Shockers. I'm starting to get geared up for opening night so I've been doing my homework...
Huge difference between a mid major basketball conference that had had 5 different schools make the S16 since 05 and a conference like the OVC who went 18 years without a playoff win....

HUGE

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Huge difference between a mid major basketball conference that had had 5 different schools make the S16 since 05 and a conference like the OVC who went 18 years without a playoff win....

HUGE

But when it comes to measuring the strength of one team what difference does it make? 5 different schools making the S16 is nice, as is one Final 4 appearance. The CAA had two teams make the Final 4 over that span.

Eastern Illinois was a pretty special team last year and finally broke that curse. They were awarded a seed despite prior disappointments and rightfully so. Likewise, some seriously questioned if Wichita State deserved a #1 despite going undefeated. First team to go through the regular season undefeated since 1991 mind you....

[citdog]

But when it comes to measuring the strength of one team what difference does it make? 5 different schools making the S16 is nice, as is one Final 4 appearance. The CAA had two teams make the Final 4 over that span.

Eastern Illinois was a pretty special team last year and finally broke that curse. They were awarded a seed despite prior disappointments and rightfully so. Likewise, some seriously questioned if Wichita State deserved a #1 despite going undefeated. First team to go through the regular season undefeated in the regular season since 1991 mind you....

what happened to EIU and Wichita when they played decent competition again? I forget........

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

what happened to EIU and Wichita when they played decent competition again? I forget........

They did great against DECENT competition. When they played national finalists they lost. In Wichita State's case, in game that was played at an extremely high level. Top 3-4 game of the tourney last year.....

[semobison]

Those sisters had a winning record against your great MVC last year.

Well, this year you went 0-fer! Last year EIU was decent, I will give you that, but they didn't beat a Valley playoff team. They did play SDSU in the playoffs in 2012 and got beat...bad!

[Cocky]

Well, this year you went 0-fer! Last year EIU was decent, I will give you that, but they didn't beat a Valley playoff team. They did play SDSU in the playoffs in 2012 and got beat...bad!
Your correct the OVC is o fer against the MVC this year. I did count the two games against EIU in the you had a chance to lose. The games against SEMO, AP and TTU were games your teams should win 100 out of 100.

[ThreadStopper]

Inside voice, please.

Nice!

[skinny_uncle]

what happened to EIU and Wichita when they played decent competition again? I forget........

Does the Citadel even have a basketball team????

[citdog]

Does the Citadel even have a basketball team????


yes a very very poor one.

[clenz]

yes a very very poor one.
I don't normally pull this card...but...


Do you know anything about WSU basketball the last two years?

They have a final four appearance and got caught by a Kentucky team that was the hottest team in the country and still almost won.

They have 2 guards that will be first round draft picks in the NBA.

Had WSU gotten by Kentucky they would have gotten to the national title game.

Also, as a qualifier - me saying good things to defend WSU would be like you saying good things to defend Georgia Southern

[Sycamore62]

blah blah blah here's what used to happen blah blah we don't run our running back enough blah blah blah if only I were the coach we be winning championships blah blah blah saying I called what the plays would be is just like scheming how to do it blah blah blah the conference of UNI should get an automatic bid blah blah more history blah blah blah Shakir Bell blah blah blah since electricity was invented blah blah blah

First off I don't know how to post a scoreboard picture but I tried and it didn't work.

second I don't need to actually see the statistics. I can tell you exactly how 4 of them happened and they were pretty close. I'm more of a contemporary history buff so I'll give you this: 1-0 since 2012.

So so if we go back to what started this, it was a joke I made about Iowa State. If I would have known that the toughest guy to ever get an Internet connection had such a soft spot for the Cyclones I would probably have still said it.

now keep in mind that you are making yourself feel better by putting down a team who in the late 90's had an AD who loved women('s sports) and along with the former president were actively attempting to justify cutting the program. I'm aware how many games we have won for a real long time, I'm also aware that most of what has been coming out of UNI lately is excuses. So before you make yourself too proud with the back of your media guide, remember, you just got beat by a team who's leadership dreamed wouldnt even exist who can't get a fan to come watch a game (although 7,500 ain't that bad for a team coming off a 1-11 record). Imagine what it will look like if they happen to actually invest in it.

[clenz]

First off I don't know how to post a scoreboard picture but I tried and it didn't work.

second I don't need to actually see the statistics. I can tell you exactly how 4 of them happened and they were pretty close. I'm more of a contemporary history buff so I'll give you this: 1-0 since 2012.

So so if we go back to what started this, it was a joke I made about Iowa State. If I would have known that the toughest guy to ever get an Internet connection had such a soft spot for the Cyclones I would probably have still said it.

now keep in mind that you are making yourself feel better by putting down a team who in the late 90's had an AD who loved women('s sports) and along with the former president were actively attempting to justify cutting the program. I'm aware how many games we have won for a real long time, I'm also aware that most of what has been coming out of UNI lately is excuses. So before you make yourself too proud with the back of your media guide, remember, you just got beat by a team who's leadership dreamed wouldnt even exist who can't get a fan to come watch a game (although 7,500 ain't that bad for a team coming off a 1-11 record). Imagine what it will look like if they happen to actually invest in it.

No more than 12K.

Tough to have more than that when you're stadium has one side and is in the middle of a residential zone

[ursus arctos horribilis]

I don't normally pull this card...but...


Do you know anything about WSU basketball the last two years?

They have a final four appearance and got caught by a Kentucky team that was the hottest team in the country and still almost won.

They have 2 guards that will be first round draft picks in the NBA.

Had WSU gotten by Kentucky they would have gotten to the national title game.

Also, as a qualifier - me saying good things to defend WSU would be like you saying good things to defend Georgia Southern

clenz, seriously dude. Either open up the portion of your brain that allows you to see what people are actually saying or start replying on a text document and erasing it so no one can actually see it.

He is not talking about what you are talking about.xlolx

[citdog]

I don't normally pull this card...but...


Do you know anything about WSU basketball the last two years?

They have a final four appearance and got caught by a Kentucky team that was the hottest team in the country and still almost won.

They have 2 guards that will be first round draft picks in the NBA.

Had WSU gotten by Kentucky they would have gotten to the national title game.

Also, as a qualifier - me saying good things to defend WSU would be like you saying good things to defend Georgia Southern

I'm kin to the Shockers Head Coach. Clenzy I was speaking of The Citadel's basketball team. How bad we are can be summed up below.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cnbUVXAoUE

[Walkon79]

Pretty sure we only care about the Griz and the Cats regardless of our PSU "Rivalry"

We feel the same about the Eags and Griz... and UND :)

[Houndawg]

I don't think we're going to see a Final 4 or Finals stacked with MVFC teams.

They'll play each other well before that round.xcoffeex

[dudeitsaid]

Why would an eastern fan dislike the Bison?
Agree actually. I respect the heck out of what the Bison have done.

I just hate their fans, stadium, colors, mascot, state, state flower, gameday, hotdogs, bisonville, tax rates, and the water boy. But the team is awesome! Love those guys!

In all seriousness, I don't hate the Bison at all. It seems that sentiment is more one sided.

[Bison56]

xhugx I love you all
Agree actually. I respect the heck out of what the Bison have done.

I just hate their fans, stadium, colors, mascot, state, state flower, gameday, hotdogs, bisonville, tax rates, and the water boy. But the team is awesome! Love those guys!

In all seriousness, I don't hate the Bison at all. It seems that sentiment is more one sided.

[dudeitsaid]

xhugx I love you all
For the first time ever, I feel good about the world.

Now, why the heck can't ISIS and the middle east figure things out if we can?!?

[rokamortis]

I'm kin to the Shockers Head Coach.

I knew I didn't like you, now I know why.

[citdog]

I knew I didn't like you, now I know why.


xlolx

[dudeitsaid]

Pretty sure we only care about the Griz and the Cats regardless of our PSU "Rivalry"

Yeah, and I gotta say in addition to them, I've grown in my disdain for SHSU...:D

[kalm]

Yeah, and I gotta say in addition to them, I've grown in my disdain for SHSU...:D

Yeah...**** SHSU and the entire state of Texas.

(Except the Right Reverand)