NEC - Can we finally get the props?

[SHUAlumni55]

NEC!!!! It is time for R E S P E C T!!!!

How many top 25 teams does the NEC need to knock off before we get a darn spot in the polls! Nice game Bryant! Even the "bottom" of our conference played a great game on the road against JMU.

[Go...gate]

Great job by the NEC!

[SHUAlumni55]

Great job by the NEC!

I bet there will still be no top 25 team this week in any of these biased polls.

[Thumper 76]

I bet there will still be no top 25 team this week in any of these biased polls.
I would imagine someone from the NEC should be able to considering how bad a couple of conferences have looked.

[centennial]

NEC!!!! It is time for R E S P E C T!!!!

How many top 25 teams does the NEC need to knock off before we get a darn spot in the polls! Nice game Bryant! Even the "bottom" of our conference played a great game on the road against JMU.
Agreed. There needs to be 1-2 NEC teams in the top 25. Never thought I would ever write that..

[bonarae]

I bet there will still be no top 25 team this week in any of these biased polls.

But this week there should be one by then. But who?

[SHUAlumni55]

But this week there should be one by then. But who?

Based on the body of work from this season Bryant and Sacred Heart. Sacred Heart also should have started in the top 20 and have climbed every week based on last year.

[superman7515]

Polls shouldn't be based on last year; especially not for a team that didn't have a single non-conference win against a full scholarship team, inflated their win total with multiple D2 teams, finished ranked 45th in the FCS, plays in a weak conference, had the 217th ranked strength of schedule out of 252 Division 1 teams, and was one and done in the playoffs.

Now they have a win over non-scholarship Marist, Lafayette who just got scholarships and had a losing record last year (since you want last year to count for something), and a D2 team. Current strength of schedule? 228 out of 252 Division 1 teams.

Nope.

Now Bryant? At least they can make the argument.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Polls shouldn't be based on last year; especially not for a team that didn't have a single non-conference win against a full scholarship team, inflated their win total with multiple D2 teams, finished ranked 45th in the FCS, plays in a weak conference, had the 217th ranked strength of schedule out of 252 Division 1 teams, and was one and done in the playoffs.

Now they have a win over non-scholarship Marist, Lafayette who just got scholarships and had a losing record last year (since you want last year to count for something), and a D2 team. Current strength of schedule? 228 out of 252 Division 1 teams.

Nope.

Now Bryant? At least they can make the argument.

I think Sacred Heart absolutely deserves to be in the Top 25. Players make the team, not the schedule, and the Pioneers have some really ones, especially in their backfield....

[Bogus Megapardus]

Sacred heart is a very good, tough team. Solid blocking OL and a running attack that could match anyone.

[RabidRabbit]

SDSU & NDSU are always looking for teams to visit beautiful Brookings or Fargo.xdrunkyx Look how much mention UIW and DSU received on GameDay from Fargo.xrolleyesx


Try some MVFC teams, especially those pesky western ones.

[SHUAlumni55]

Polls shouldn't be based on last year; especially not for a team that didn't have a single non-conference win against a full scholarship team, inflated their win total with multiple D2 teams, finished ranked 45th in the FCS, plays in a weak conference, had the 217th ranked strength of schedule out of 252 Division 1 teams, and was one and done in the playoffs.

Now they have a win over non-scholarship Marist, Lafayette who just got scholarships and had a losing record last year (since you want last year to count for something), and a D2 team. Current strength of schedule? 228 out of 252 Division 1 teams.

Nope.

Now Bryant? At least they can make the argument.

THIS is exactly what I am talking about. You mix some facts with lots of bias. My case is that the NEC is not "weak". The strength of schedule this year will prove to be much better for ALL of the NEC teams. My point is simple, a conference leader(s) in the NEC has EVERY right to be in the top 10-25 along with leaders from your cherished top conferences who also pad their schedules, have bad teams at the bottom of their conferences and head to head are proving to be no better than the NEC.

[SHUAlumni55]

Now THAT would be worth going to Fargo! I hope that as we climb consistently into these rankings we will push for harder OOC games. But it takes two to tango!!!

[superman7515]

THIS is exactly what I am talking about. You mix some facts with lots of bias. My case is that the NEC is not "weak". The strength of schedule this year will prove to be much better for ALL of the NEC teams. My point is simple, a conference leader(s) in the NEC has EVERY right to be in the top 10-25 along with leaders from your cherished top conferences who also pad their schedules, have bad teams at the bottom of their conferences and head to head are proving to be no better than the NEC.

Bryant against major conferences: 2-0 (and I said they have an argument to be made for their inclusion)
Central Connecticut State: 1-1
Duquesne: 0-2
Robert Morris: 0-2
Sacred Heart: 0-0
St. Francis: 0-1
Wagner: 0-1

NEC against power conference teams: 3-7

Yep, proving to be no better than the NEC in head-to-head matchups.

[SHUAlumni55]

Wow you are taking a lot of liberty with the term "power conferences". By the way how did Power conference Sam Houston do against a padded schedule division 2 opponent?

[superman7515]

Wow you are taking a lot of liberty with the term "power conferences". By the way how did Power conference Sam Houston do against a padded schedule division 2 opponent?

They lost. And I'm not taking any liberty with power conferences. FBS, MVFC, CAA, Southland, SoCon (although that's pushing it at this moment), and Big Sky.

So basically what it comes down to is that I used facts:
A team that didn't have a single non-conference win against a full scholarship team - FACT
inflated their win total with multiple D2 teams - FACT
finished ranked 45th in the FCS - FACT
plays in a weak conference - FACT
had the 217th ranked strength of schedule out of 252 Division 1 teams - FACT
was one and done in the playoffs - FACT
Now they have a win over non-scholarship Marist, Lafayette who just got scholarships and had a losing record last year (since you want last year to count for something), and a D2 team - FACT
Current strength of schedule? 228 out of 252 Division 1 teams - FACT

And you respond by saying my facts are biased, but give no fact, just opinion, to support your stance. Then after your comment about the NEC vs power conferences is proven false, you try to deflect onto a team not even remotely in the conversation. Interesting how that works out.

http://i.imgur.com/9pAAFvn.gif

[citdog]

They lost. And I'm not taking any liberty with power conferences. FBS, MVFC, CAA, Southland, SoCon (although that's pushing it at this moment), and Big Sky.

So basically what it comes down to is that I used facts:
A team that didn't have a single non-conference win against a full scholarship team - FACT
inflated their win total with multiple D2 teams - FACT
finished ranked 45th in the FCS - FACT
plays in a weak conference - FACT
had the 217th ranked strength of schedule out of 252 Division 1 teams - FACT
was one and done in the playoffs - FACT
Now they have a win over non-scholarship Marist, Lafayette who just got scholarships and had a losing record last year (since you want last year to count for something), and a D2 team - FACT
Current strength of schedule? 228 out of 252 Division 1 teams - FACT

And you respond by saying my facts are biased, but give no fact, just opinion, to support your stance. Then after your comment about the NEC vs power conferences is proven false, you try to deflect onto a team not even remotely in the conversation. Interesting how that works out.

http://i.imgur.com/9pAAFvn.gif


GIVE THEM UNEARNED RESPECT OR ELSE SUPEY!

[danefan]

THIS is exactly what I am talking about. You mix some facts with lots of bias. My case is that the NEC is not "weak". The strength of schedule this year will prove to be much better for ALL of the NEC teams. My point is simple, a conference leader(s) in the NEC has EVERY right to be in the top 10-25 along with leaders from your cherished top conferences who also pad their schedules, have bad teams at the bottom of their conferences and head to head are proving to be no better than the NEC.

as a person who wrote probably the exact same post 5 years ago.....you have no idea what it's like week after week in the major conferences. Even the "bad" teams are bigger, faster and stronger.


Oh and btw......Bryant should be ranked this week.

[MTfan4life]

This is how it breaks down for me. I've already voted for Sacred Heart each week and will continue to do so until they prove me otherwise. Bryant, on the other hand, not yet. If James Madison or Delaware started this season with the same exact schedule and results as Bryant, I still wouldn't have ranked them yet. I simply had SBU and Maine as both being in the bottom half of the CAA this season, and they haven't shown otherwise to me. If I wouldn't vote Delaware or JMU for those wins, I'm not going to vote Bryant. Now if Bryant takes down Liberty, it will definitely be a different story.

Wow you are taking a lot of liberty with the term "power conferences". By the way how did Power conference Sam Houston do against a padded schedule division 2 opponent?
P.S. Colorado State-Pueblo should not be labeled "D2" as if they are weaker than every FCS team. They'd easily be top 25 this season in the FCS. That school is tremendously talented in football, especially considering they renewed their program just six seasons ago. I'm not condoning SHSU getting rick rolled by them, but them getting downgraded for being D2 needs to stop. They would rough up a lot of FCS teams.

[thebootfitter]

P.S. Colorado State-Pueblo should not be labeled "D2" as if they are weaker than every FCS team. They'd easily be top 25 this season in the FCS. That school is tremendously talented in football, especially considering they renewed their program just six seasons ago. I'm not condoning SHSU getting rick rolled by them, but them getting downgraded for being D2 needs to stop. They would rough up a lot of FCS teams.
Slightly off-topic for this thread, but...
A top 25 team should never be dominated by even the champion of a lower division, in my opinion. Think NDSU vs K-State in 2013 or EWU vs Oregon State. Those were borderline top 25 teams in FBS against arguably the top 2 FCS teams, and neither FCS team dominated throughout the game. They won, yes, and that is understandable. But both FBS teams dropped well below top 25 in the polls.

Regarding this thread... Just keep winning against the opponents in front of you each week. Do it convincingly and all will work itself out come playoff time.

[MTfan4life]

Slightly off-topic for this thread, but...
A top 25 team should never be dominated by even the champion of a lower division, in my opinion. Think NDSU vs K-State in 2013 or EWU vs Oregon State. Those were borderline top 25 teams in FBS against arguably the top 2 FCS teams, and neither FCS team dominated throughout the game. They won, yes, and that is understandable. But both FBS teams dropped well below top 25 in the polls.

Regarding this thread... Just keep winning against the opponents in front of you each week. Do it convincingly and all will work itself out come playoff time.

The difference between the top 25 of the FBS and the top teams of the FCS is FAR greater than the difference between the top 25 of the FCS and the top echelon of D2. I'm not saying I'm going to rank SHSU. I'm just trying to show people that CSU-P is worth way more than they're giving them credit. So many people see D2 and think they must be less superior, but the top D2 teams every year are much more talented than what most D1 fans assume.

[thebootfitter]

The difference between the top 25 of the FBS and the top teams of the FCS is FAR greater than the difference between the top 25 of the FCS and the top echelon of D2. I'm not saying I'm going to rank SHSU. I'm just trying to show people that CSU-P is worth way more than they're giving them credit. So many people see D2 and think they must be less superior, but the top D2 teams every year are much more talented than what most D1 fans assume.
So, you're saying that if Bryant can roll Pueblo, then Bryant should be considered top 25? ;-P

I could maybe buy that for a dollar.

[aceinthehole]

Based on results so far, I would think that both SHU and Bryant should make the Top-25, but of course their resume has to be evaluated against other contenders.

That being said, under no circumstances could I see any justification for any Ivy League or Patriot League team (other than Fordham) ahead of these 2 NEC teams.

NEC games to look out for:
9/20 - Bryant at Liberty
10/4 - Sacred Heart at Delaware

[SHUAlumni55]

Based on results so far, I would think that both SHU and Bryant should make the Top-25, but of course their resume has to be evaluated against other contenders.

That being said, under no circumstances could I see any justification for any Ivy League or Patriot League team (other than Fordham) ahead of these 2 NEC teams.

NEC games to look out for:
9/20 - Bryant at Liberty
10/4 - Sacred Heart at Delaware

Here it is aceinthehole. The NEC hopes this Liberty game earns some pollsters respect. But then again if Bryant wins, it will likely be because Liberty is in a down year or it was a fluke win. If SHU wins vs. Bucknell and Delaware it surely will be because those programs stink and aren't worthy of rankings in the first place. NEC lets just keep tearing down ranked opponents every week, until they are forced to play us in the playoffs. This sure is a slippery rope for an NEC team to climb!

[downbythebeach]

I think we need to work on getting home games with CAA teams. All these road games are not helping the perception of the league, and we could use home field advantage once in a while.

[SHUAlumni55]

I think we need to work on getting home games with CAA teams. All these road games are not helping the perception of the league, and we could use home field advantage once in a while.

Completely agree. But that's the scheduling OOC games catch 22.

[F'N Hawks]

Robert Morris lost to UND. Robert Morris is in the NEC.

No props for the NEC.

[JSUBison]

Begging for respect is not how you earn it, holy ****! xlolx

[M Ruler]

Albany won the NEC 6 or 7 times, defeated Maine, Delaware, Towson, Lehigh, Colgate, Columbia and some of the PL schools. They made the NCAA playoffs and never got the props it deserved. Its sad but true.

No question that Bryant or Sacred Heart will be a tough out but week in and week out its a different landscape in the full scholly world. Look no further than UA's 1-11 season from 2013. They were a year or two removed from being an NCAA participant.

Wagner, Albany and SHU had good to great showings in the first round of the NCAA's the last 3 years. As Wagner played deeper in 2012 it became apparent of the difference.

[Bogus Megapardus]

under no circumstances could I see any justification for any Ivy League team . . . ahead of these 2 NEC teams.

I continue to believe that folks underrate the best Ivy teams. I haven't seen Bryant but I have seen Sacred Heart. It's a good team with a solid OL and a pair of exceptional RBs. But I'm pretty confident that Harvard could contain those RBs and that Sacred Heart would struggle against Harvard's very proficient offense and that the Harvard DL would get plenty of push up front. Sure, Sacred Heart beat Lafayette but Harvard is a much different animal. Sacred Heart would have considerable difficulty containing Princeton's speed as well. I don't know about Bryant, but I doubt very much that Sacred Heart could beat either Harvard or Princeton.

[superman7515]

If SHU wins vs. Bucknell and Delaware it surely will be because those programs stink and aren't worthy of rankings in the first place.

But that's actually true. Neither Bucknell nor Delaware should be getting any votes.

[citdog]

But that's actually true. Neither Bucknell nor Delaware should be getting any votes.

To think that ANYONE would claim a win over a patsy league team as a major achievement is SAD. Like when a certain patsy league team thought they won the super bowl when they beat temple SAD.........

[Bogus Megapardus]

To think that ANYONE would claim a win over a patsy league team as a major achievement is SAD. Like when a certain patsy league team thought they won the super bowl when they beat temple SAD.........

The editorial gloss aside, citdog, I agree that a team's claim to a top 25 spot can't be by virtue of a win over a PL team. Other than Fordham, PL teams play only a small handful of scholarship players - now just freshmen and sophomores - and simply don't have the wherewithal to be considered "signature" wins. It will take several years (and then some) for PL squads to establish a base.

[blackbeard]

To think that ANYONE would claim a win over a patsy league team as a major achievement is SAD. Like when a certain patsy league team thought they won the super bowl when they beat temple SAD.........

Given the amount of horn tooting and thread hijacking that goes on around here by fans of a couple of Patsy teams, any new reader would assume that a win over a Patsy would be right up there with a trip to Frisco.....

[PAllen]

Given the amount of horn tooting and thread hijacking that goes on around here by fans of a couple of Patsy teams, any new reader would assume that a win over a Patsy would be right up there with a trip to Frisco.....

Right up there? It's BETTER than a trip to Frisco! xcoolx

Well, at least it is for some if it's a win the Saturday before Thanksgiving.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Given the amount of horn tooting and thread hijacking that goes on around here by fans of a couple of Patsy teams, any new reader would assume that a win over a Patsy would be right up there with a trip to Frisco.....

Hmm. Most pundits agree that the PL already is a Top 5 FCS thread-hijacking conference. Scholarships will help.

[NDSUSR]

2 out of 7 teams with a winning record. Meh..
MVC 8 out of 10.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Suppose for a moment that Lafayette had beaten Sacred Heart (it easily could have happened). If I suggested that win, combined with our win (actually a complete blowout) over another NEC team, warranted top 25 consideration for Lafayette - I'd be ridiculed right off this board. That's just how it is.

[blackbeard]

Right up there? It's BETTER than a trip to Frisco! xcoolx

Well, at least it is for some if it's a win the Saturday before Thanksgiving.

Sure would have loved to have had a win over one last year on the Saturday after Thanksgiving!

[blackbeard]

Hmm. Most pundits agree that the PL already is a Top 5 FCS thread-hijacking conference. Scholarships will help.

Nah, the PL is clearly #1, with LC and LU playing for the national title every year

[Bogus Megapardus]

Nah, the PL is clearly #1

Solid competition from Big Sky and MVFC fans have put our status in doubt. We'll have to up our game.

[JMUNJ08]

Nah, the PL is clearly #1, with LC and LU playing for the national title every year

They both lose in the semi's to NDSU & UND.... there is no stopping the Bison in getting their titles...

[Bogus Megapardus]

. . . with LC and LU playing for the national title every year

Oh for chrissake, I see that November is going to be a tough month for some folks around here. But if you have any suggestions for PL fans on how they should diminish the meaning/significance of the LC - LU rivalry, we're all ears. I'll go out on on limb here and say that we kind of like the game (with ample reservation, of course).

[BucBisonAtLarge]

Bucknell travels to both Sacred Heart and Bryant in the next three weeks. These road trips for sure look more challenging than when they were scheduled, for sure. As to being ranked... there's a lot of football yet to be played and plenty of opportunities for teams to earn their respect. These concerns are the same as they were for Albany a few years ago. At least now there is a tournament slot.

[penguinpower]

Youngstown State play St.Francis this coming weekend. To be honest I know hardly anything about St. Francis. All I know is that YSU needs the home games to pay the bills. They make more at the home games than they would If they played a home and home, and travel eats into the money game budgets.

[citdog]

Oh for chrissake, I see that November is going to be a tough month for some folks around here. But if you have any suggestions for PL fans on how they should diminish the meaning/significance of the LC - LU rivalry, we're all ears. I'll go out on on limb here and say that we kind of like the game (with ample reservation, of course).

REALLY looking forward to the patsy league fact a day in november.

Can't wait to see how y'all attempt to put lipstick on THAT pig!

[Go...gate]

REALLY looking forward to the patsy league fact a day in november.

Can't wait to see how y'all attempt to put lipstick on THAT pig!

We'll be including information about The Citadel - The PL's Honorary Associate Member....xthumbsupx

[aceinthehole]

I continue to believe that folks underrate the best Ivy teams. I haven't seen Bryant but I have seen Sacred Heart. It's a good team with a solid OL and a pair of exceptional RBs. But I'm pretty confident that Harvard could contain those RBs and that Sacred Heart would struggle against Harvard's very proficient offense and that the Harvard DL would get plenty of push up front. Sure, Sacred Heart beat Lafayette but Harvard is a much different animal. Sacred Heart would have considerable difficulty containing Princeton's speed as well. I don't know about Bryant, but I doubt very much that Sacred Heart could beat either Harvard or Princeton.

I won't question your assessment of Princeton or Harvard. Some seasons, they may be "very good" teams. My main point of frustration is they lack games outside of the Ivy/PL, so it is nearly impossible to make an objective determination. Harvard has had few meaningful wins outside of the Ivy/PL, so I don't see any way you can call them a "different animal" - their last 2 non-Ivy/PL wins were both against San Diego.

If SHU could beat Lafayette 2 years in a row, and Lafayette has the potential to beat Princeton/Harvard, then I see no reason why SHU couldn’t beat them as well.

[aceinthehole]

Suppose for a moment that Lafayette had beaten Sacred Heart (it easily could have happened). If I suggested that win, combined with our win (actually a complete blowout) over another NEC team, warranted top 25 consideration for Lafayette - I'd be ridiculed right off this board. That's just how it is.

I think a win over SHU (the defending NEC Champs and preseason pick to repeate) would have been a nice feather in your cap - worthy of some consideration. The RMU win, not so much.

[Bogus Megapardus]

I think a win over SHU (the defending NEC Champs and preseason pick to repeate) would have been a nice feather in your cap - worthy of some consideration. The RMU win, not so much.

If Bucknell defeats Sacred Heart this weekend to go 3-0, I still don't think even Bucknell would argue that they should be ranked.

[aceinthehole]

If Bucknell defeats Sacred Heart this weekend to go 3-0, I still don't think even Bucknell would argue that they should be ranked.

Well I don't think so either, but that's because their other 2 wins are vs. Marist (a team that lost to Georgetown) and a VMI team that was 2-10 last year.

I do think a Bucknell win over SHU should be considered a win over a ranked (albiet, maybe #25) team, but that doesn't mean it is enough to be ranked next week.

Now, if Bucknell is 5-0 heading into its game with Lehigh with wins over SHU and Bryant, then yes, I think the Bison should likely be ranked in somewhere between 20-25.

[PAllen]

If Bucknell defeats Sacred Heart this weekend to go 3-0, I still don't think even Bucknell would argue that they should be ranked.

I disagree. Based mostly on what's going on elsewhere around the country, I'd say a 3-0 Bucknell team deserves a 23-25 ranking next week. I'll take beating anybody over getting blown out by a division II opponent.

[BucBisonAtLarge]

If Bucknell defeats Sacred Heart this weekend to go 3-0, I still don't think even Bucknell would argue that they should be ranked.

+1 Cmon... Rankings? Rankings don't count for much. If Lee High can go 10-1 and get shut out of the playoffs we will have to get well into our conference schedule before looking up to see if someone is noticing. Years of pain have given this Bison a humbler perspective. PL teams not named Fordham still carry fewer scholly players than even NEC schools and no non-medical red-shirts. Expecting a ranking even four weeks from now isn't predictable nor realistic, even if we are playing well. It is a game-at-a-time...

[aceinthehole]

I disagree. Based mostly on what's going on elsewhere around the country, I'd say a 3-0 Bucknell team deserves a 23-25 ranking next week. I'll take beating anybody over getting blown out by a division II opponent.

OK, so then why isn't both SHU (3-0) and Bryant (3-0) ranked this week? Again, I don't understand the double-standards being applied.

[PAllen]

OK, so then why isn't both SHU (3-0) and Bryant (3-0) ranked this week? Again, I don't understand the double-standards being applied.

I certainly think they should each be in consideration for a spot towards the bottom of the rankings.

[penguinpower]

Where is St. Francis picked to finish in the NEC? Youngstown was picked to finish in the middle of the pack in the MVFC. If St. Francis is picked to finish in the middle it will be interesting to see how this game plays out
YSU's coach spoke highly of St. Francis in his weekly presser and mentioned that they gave JMU a good game until a couple things got away from them. Is this a way to measure the conference?

[aceinthehole]

Where is St. Francis picked to finish in the NEC? Youngstown was picked to finish in the middle of the pack in the MVFC. If St. Francis is picked to finish in the middle it will be interesting to see how this game plays out
YSU's coach spoke highly of St. Francis in his weekly presser and mentioned that they gave JMU a good game until a couple things got away from them. Is this a way to measure the conference?

Saint Francis was picked by the coaches to finish last (7th) in the NEC.

However, in the previous 2 seasons the team to be picked last by the coaches actually finished the season first and won the NEC auto-bid (Wagner in 2012 and Sacred Heart in 2013)

[downbythebeach]

We haven't had a winning season since 1993. That's should answer your question...

[Thumper 76]

Where is St. Francis picked to finish in the NEC? Youngstown was picked to finish in the middle of the pack in the MVFC. If St. Francis is picked to finish in the middle it will be interesting to see how this game plays out
YSU's coach spoke highly of St. Francis in his weekly presser and mentioned that they gave JMU a good game until a couple things got away from them. Is this a way to measure the conference?

When was the last time you heard a coach say, "Jeeze these guys suck something fierce. If our backups aren't playing by the 3rd we have real issues."

[UNHWildcat18]

YSU is going to stomp St.Francis. If Bryant wins vs Liberty than they should be ranked for beating two caa teams and a big south team. The teams have been playoff caliber the last few years. I know they aren't as good this year so far but still if Bryant wins put them at 23-25. The rest of the League hasn't proved diddly squat IMO. yet anyways.

[Bison56]

To answer the question. Nope

[TypicalTribe]

The NEC is slowly gaining some recognition, but don't go looking for too much respect jusst from wins over Maine and Stony Brook. Maine is a shell of the team they were last year and will not sniff the top 25 again and Stony Brook is mediocre as well. The process of gaining a spot in the FCS pecking order takes a few years and requires consistent non-conference wins and some solid playoff performances.

[M Ruler]

The NEC is slowly gaining some recognition, but don't go looking for too much respect jusst from wins over Maine and Stony Brook. Maine is a shell of the team they were last year and will not sniff the top 25 again and Stony Brook is mediocre as well. The process of gaining a spot in the FCS pecking order takes a few years and requires consistent non-conference wins and some solid playoff performances.

Even with that it is a long shot. Albany consistently beat OOC opponents and gained very little in recognition. Teams worried about them when they played Albany from the NEC but Albany didn't impress the polls. In fact I don't know if UA was ever ranked in the top 20.

[superman7515]

Bucknell 36 - Sacred Heart 20 at Sacred Heart

For who?
For what?

[SHUAlumni55]

Bucknell 36 - Sacred Heart 20 at Sacred Heart

For who?
For what?

You'll have a much better case to hate on this SHU team if the result is the on 10/4. That's why we play these games.

By the way, what about Duquesne beating Monmouth again? The NEC is competitive with the CAA. It's hard to ignore the evidence that keeps mounting every week. Bryant at Liberty tonight will be a telling game.

[aceinthehole]

I continue to believe that folks underrate the best Ivy teams. I haven't seen Bryant but I have seen Sacred Heart. It's a good team with a solid OL and a pair of exceptional RBs. But I'm pretty confident that Harvard could contain those RBs and that Sacred Heart would struggle against Harvard's very proficient offense and that the Harvard DL would get plenty of push up front. Sure, Sacred Heart beat Lafayette but Harvard is a much different animal. Sacred Heart would have considerable difficulty containing Princeton's speed as well. I don't know about Bryant, but I doubt very much that Sacred Heart could beat either Harvard or Princeton.

Princeton - 15
San Diego - 21
HALFTIME

Again, not sure why anyone thinks Princeton is special these days.

[Uncle Buck]

The NEC is competitive with the CAA. It's hard to ignore the evidence that keeps mounting every week. Bryant at Liberty tonight will be a telling game.

I'll say that the NEC has improved, but as SBU is and will continue to learn, playing a CAA caliber team one week is tough, playing a CAA team week in and week out is brutal. So yes, some NEC teams are gaining traction, but stick them in for a full caa slate and I think they would struggle.


Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk

[aceinthehole]

I'll say that the NEC has improved, but as SBU is and will continue to learn, playing a CAA caliber team one week is tough, playing a CAA team week in and week out is brutal. So yes, some NEC teams are gaining traction, but stick them in for a full caa slate and I think they would struggle.

UB - you are right. NEC teams with 20 less schollys would struggle through a 8-week CAA slate. But the ability to beat solid CAA opponents is there on AGS. I'd also suggest, just like the transition Albany and SBU is making (and Towson did years ago), if certain NEC teams, like CCSU, added the 20 equivs they could transition to a CAA level just the same.

Week 1 - The Northeast Conference (CCSU & Bryant) beat 2 CAA teams (Towson and Stony Brook)

Week 1 - The Ivy League (Penn & Princeton) lost to 2 Pioneer teams (Jacksonville and San Diego)

So, I have no more patience for anyone suggesting that the NEC is not a comparable level of football to the Patriot, Ivy, or MEAC - regardless of their different funding models.

The CAA has been and continues to be ahead of the rest of the region, that is a given.

[danefan]

The NEC is as good as the limited scholly PL but I expect that gap to widen again as the PL teams ramp up.

AGS though.

[danefan]

Bryant getting smacked early at Liberty. Not good

[Go...gate]

Princeton - 15
San Diego - 21
HALFTIME

Again, not sure why anyone thinks Princeton is special these days.

Though I love the Tigers and they are my hometown team, they are far from invincible.

USD 39 - Princeton 29, Final

[SHUAlumni55]

Bryant getting smacked early at Liberty. Not good

Not so fast. Special Teams just helped a 14 point swing...

[Uncle Buck]

UB - you are right. NEC teams with 20 less schollys would struggle through a 8-week CAA slate. But the ability to beat solid CAA opponents is there on AGS. I'd also suggest, just like the transition Albany and SBU is making (and Towson did years ago), if certain NEC teams, like CCSU, added the 20 equivs they could transition to a CAA level just the same.

Week 1 - The Northeast Conference (CCSU & Bryant) beat 2 CAA teams (Towson and Stony Brook)

Week 1 - The Ivy League (Penn & Princeton) lost to 2 Pioneer teams (Jacksonville and San Diego)

So, I have no more patience for anyone suggesting that the NEC is not a comparable level of football compared to the Patriot, Ivy, or MEAC - regardless of their different funding model.

The CAA has been and continues to be ahead of the rest of the region, that is a given.

NEC is definitely making strides and eventually will garner the respect with more big wins and quality playoff appearances.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk

[BucBisonAtLarge]

I would really like to see Bryant rally in Lynchburg, but that is looking grim.

Go Central!

[aceinthehole]

I would really like to see Bryant rally in Lynchburg, but that is looking grim.

Go Central!

Wer're in a battle with Darmouth and not helping ourselves on special teams.

Big Green up 28-19 over the Blue Devils in the Q3. CCSU left 5 points on the field (2 missed PATs and a missed FG).

Dartmouth is certainly a big and powerful team - probably will have a good season in the Ivy

[superman7515]

By the way, what about Duquesne beating Monmouth again? The NEC is competitive with the CAA. It's hard to ignore the evidence that keeps mounting every week. Bryant at Liberty tonight will be a telling game.

How does Duquesne beating Monmouth have anything to do with the CAA? The evidence that keeps mounting every week is that your teams are hot garbage.

Bryant - 21
Liberty 38

http://i.imgur.com/b2uvxLU.gif

[MTfan4life]

http://scores.espn.go.com/ncf/scoreboard?confId=25&seasonYear=2014&seasonType=2&weekNumber=4

No other words needed.

[UNHWildcat18]

Today proved why the NEC teams don't deserve diddly in terms of being ranked. Glad bryant played a good game vs liberty who is a good team. I don't think they are catching up to the caa teams really, SBU TU and Maine have truly taken such a step back this year in my opinion. Not to anger NEC fans just being blunt honest and somewhat drunk.

[danefan]

Yeah not a good week for the NEC.

[Uncle Buck]

The stony brook win is definitely definitely losing luster as their offense can't break through a paper bag. Another abysmal performance.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk

[Go Green]

Today proved why the NEC teams don't deserve diddly in terms of being ranked. Glad bryant played a good game vs liberty who is a good team. I don't think they are catching up to the caa teams really, SBU TU and Maine have truly taken such a step back this year in my opinion. Not to anger NEC fans just being blunt honest and somewhat drunk.


CCSU covered the spread against Dartmouth. That's got to count for something.

[aceinthehole]

Yeah not a good week for the NEC.

Yes, not a good week - we have higher exceptions now. But even our "not good" week in the NEC was a lot better than this week in the Ivy. Harvard, Yale and Dartmouth had nice wins - the rest of the league is a hot mess.

And no matter how good Harvard looked, their schedule is weaker than anything in the NEC.

[aceinthehole]

SHU should have been preseason ranked (20-25) - and the loss this week to Bucknell should have dropped them out of the poll.

[bjtheflamesfan]

Of the two I had ranked, Sacred Heart probably will stay in, although a 1-5 week isn't exactly something to cry foul over. now if you had a 3-3 week or better including Bryant and/or Sacred Heart winning then you probably would have something to crow about. At this point the NEC is still in that third tier as far as FCS conferences are concerned

[Lehigh'98]

What tier is the Big South? Minus Coastal, what signature wins can you point to? Couple wins over a down SoCon?

[SHUAlumni55]

Yes, not a good week - we have higher exceptions now. But even our "not good" week in the NEC was a lot better than this week in the Ivy. Harvard, Yale and Dartmouth had nice wins - the rest of the league is a hot mess.

And no matter how good Harvard looked, their schedule is weaker than anything in the NEC.


I'll be staying quiet for a little bit. But, IF SHU pulls something impressive out on the road at Delaware. I will certainly pull the poll bias card again.

[bjtheflamesfan]

At this point I see it this way (the order does not reflect what I feel is the order within the tiers):

tier I

MVFC
CAA
Big Sky
Southland

tier II
Patriot
SoCon
Big South
Ohio Valley

Tier III
MEAC
SWAC
Ivy
NEC

Tier IV
Pioneer (they are so bad they deserve their own tier)

I think that the Big South is improving as the SoCon is trending downward with App State and Georgia Southern going FBS. It will take a pretty seismic shift for any real improvement beyond that though

[BattinRam]

Some could argue that the OVC belongs in Tier I. The OVC has 5-6 legit teams in it, correct? And any of those teams would win the NEC

[rokamortis]

What tier is the Big South? Minus Coastal, what signature wins can you point to? Couple wins over a down SoCon?

The Massey Composite for last week lists the Big South as third overall.

[superman7515]

I'll be staying quiet for a little bit. But, IF SHU pulls something impressive out on the road at Delaware. I will certainly pull the poll bias card again.

What has Delaware done this season to make you think that's a win worth ranking someone for? Because I've been in my seat at every minute of every snap this year and they could just as easily be 4-8 as 8-4 this season. Obviously I'm hoping for the latter, but the Blue Hens haven't really looked dominant in either victory and they got absolutely dominated against Pitt. 21 players for the Blue Hens made their collegiate debut in the game against Pitt, this is a very inexperienced team that people deservedly should be taking a wait and see approach to, not hanging their hat on the potential of a win in game 4.

[aceinthehole]

At this point I see it this way (the order does not reflect what I feel is the order within the tiers):

tier I

MVFC
CAA
Big Sky
Southland

tier II
Patriot
SoCon
Big South
Ohio Valley

Tier III
MEAC
SWAC
Ivy
NEC

Tier IV
Pioneer (they are so bad they deserve their own tier)

I think that the Big South is improving as the SoCon is trending downward with App State and Georgia Southern going FBS. It will take a pretty seismic shift for any real improvement beyond that though

This makes no sense whatsoever.

The PL/Ivy/MEAC/NEC are equivalent any way you look at it. You are trying to make a distinction without a difference between them.

[Go Green]

The PL/Ivy/MEAC/NEC are equivalent any way you look at it. You are trying to make a distinction without a difference between them.

The Ivy guys are going to be quiet about rankings given that we lost to three PFL teams yesterday.

Now, that could change if things go well next week, with games against Army, UNH, and Villanova.

[aceinthehole]

The Ivy guys are going to be quiet about rankings given that we lost to three PFL teams yesterday.

Now, that could change if things go well next week, with games against Army, UNH, and Villanova.

It is not just yesterday that is keeping Ivy fans quiet. The Ivy League hasn't had many quality non-conference wins in decades! With the win yesterday Dartmouth now has a .500 record vs. the NEC.

Since 2005, Big Green is 0-5 vs. the CAA, 5-12 vs. the Patriot, and 2-0 vs. the Pioneer. When was the last time Dartmouth had a better win then they earned last night vs. Central?

[Go Green]

. When was the last time Dartmouth had a better win then they earned last night vs. Central?

Butler went to the playoffs last year.

We've beaten Holy Cross, Colgate, and Bucknell in the not-too-distant past.

Last time we beat a Yankee/CAA team may have been Boston University in 1989. Yep--been a while.

Then again, if the only CAA team you play is UNH, your record against the CAA is going to be pretty weak.

[bjtheflamesfan]

Really the way i see it, until the NEC has some playoff success within its current members and can garner some quality wins in the regular and/or postseason, they really are not a second tier conference. Coastal beat Montana in Wa-Griz, CSU has beat The Citadel...twice. Gardner-Webb has beateN Wofford...twice. Even Presbyterian, the worst team in the conference, beat the defending champion Furman (missing their starting QB notwithstanding)

[superman7515]

Butler went to the playoffs last year.

Because San Diego (who beat Butler 42-14) declared themselves ineligible 2 days before the end of the season.

[bjtheflamesfan]

Butler then got blown straight to heck by Tennessee State

[Go Green]

Can I assume that you all don't consider a 2013 win over Butler more impressive than a 2014 win over CCSU?

Because that was the question I thought I was answering.

[blackbeard]

At this point I see it this way (the order does not reflect what I feel is the order within the tiers):

tier I

MVFC
CAA
Big Sky
Southland

tier II
Patriot
SoCon
Big South
Ohio Valley

Tier III
MEAC
SWAC
Ivy
NEC

Tier IV
Pioneer (they are so bad they deserve their own tier)

I think that the Big South is improving as the SoCon is trending downward with App State and Georgia Southern going FBS. It will take a pretty seismic shift for any real improvement beyond that though

Not too far off except the PL is no where near the SoCon, OVC and Big South. They clearly should be in your Tier III.

[superman7515]

Can I assume that you all don't consider a 2013 win over Butler more impressive than a 2014 win over CCSU?

Because that was the question I thought I was answering.

Can't speak for BJ, but I don't.

[aceinthehole]

Really the way i see it, until the NEC has some playoff success within its current members and can garner some quality wins in the regular and/or postseason, they really are not a second tier conference. Coastal beat Montana in Wa-Griz, CSU has beat The Citadel...twice. Gardner-Webb has beateN Wofford...twice. Even Presbyterian, the worst team in the conference, beat the defending champion Furman (missing their starting QB notwithstanding)

Huh? I don't understand - none of that is very impressive as far as I can tell.

2010 - Robert Morris loses to NDSU in the First Round
2011 - Albany loses to Big South AQ Stony Brook by a FG
2012 - Wagner beats Patriot AQ Colgate, then loses to EWU in the 2nd Round by just 10 points
2013 - Sacred Heart loses to Fordham (at-large) by 10 points

I think the NEC has fared well in their first 4 years in the playoffs. How has the PL and MEAC done in that time period?

[bjtheflamesfan]

Only 1 playoff win in the 4 seasons with an AQ...if I had a fuctional computer I could look up all the schedules and look at quality wins in greater detail, but failing that, the Patriot League has 4 wins in the playoffs the last 4 seasons the Big South has I believe 3 wins in 4 seasons with an AQ. I will give you the fact that the MEAC has zero playoff wins, but all told, the NEC is not at a second tier level...when you win all those games you lose in non-conference by 10, then you can enter the discussion for being higher than a third tier conference

[aceinthehole]

Only 1 playoff win in the 4 seasons with an AQ...if I had a fuctional computer I could look up all the schedules and look at quality wins in greater detail, but failing that, the Patriot League has 4 wins in the playoffs the last 4 seasons the Big South has I believe 3 wins in 4 seasons with an AQ. I will give you the fact that the MEAC has zero playoff wins, but all told, the NEC is not at a second tier level...when you win all those games you lose in non-conference by 10, then you can enter the discussion for being higher than a third tier conference

First, I don't think FCS has these "3 tiers" as you suggest - and I think it is clear the NEC is a non-power conference, just like the PL, Ivy, MEAC.

Last season, the PL was 1-2 in the playoffs. Fordham beat SHU, then lost to Towson. Lafayette lost to UNH by 38 points! In the NEC worst defeat in the playoffs, Robert Morris lost by 26 to NDSU in 2010.

The NEC is 1-1 vs. the Patriot League in the playoffs (Wagner beat Colgate; Fordham beat Sacred Heart).
The NEC is 0-1 vs. the Big South in the playoffs (SBU beat Albany by a FG)

Again, there is no evidence that the PL is "another tier" than the NEC. Your proposed grouping is biased, judgmental, and lacks any supporting evidence. It's your opinion and you are free to present it here as such, but I don't think it is something shared by most objective observers.

[aceinthehole]

NCAA Playoffs (2010-13)

Big South (4-4) Coastal has 3 wins, Stony Brook 1
Patriot (3-5) Lehigh has 2 wins, Fordham 1
NEC (1-4) Wagner has 1 win
MEAC (0-6)

Three of the Big South's 4 playoff wins were against the MEAC (2 vs. Bethune-Cookman) and NEC (1 vs. Albany). The other win is vs. the BigSky (Montana)

[bjtheflamesfan]

Here is how I describe the three tiers I suggested:

Tier 1- these are your "power conferences". consistently multiple teams in the playoffs, a bevy of quality wins non-conference over other FCS teams (Iincluding other Tier 1 teams) and some FBS wins as well, regularly winning or contending for national titles. Also, they beat Tear 2 and 3 teams pretty much all the time (sometimes very soundly)

Tier 2- these are your conferences who are starting to get multiple teams into the playoffs (or in the discussion), are getting quality wins, though not as regularly as Tier 1, over a few Tier 1 but mostly Tier 2 conference teams, and regularly beat Tier 3 teams. If a Tier 2 team is in the final 8 or final 4, a lot of the time that is a "Cinderella Story". occasionally youll find one of those from a Tier 1 but those are surprise stories from the get go

tier 3- these are your conferences with little to no playoff history, have very few if any quality wins over Tier 1 or 2 teams, are annually "1 bid leagues" (with no consistent at-large discussion) and are (for lack of a better way of putting it in my view) "body bag games" against the top 5-10 teams in the country at the FCS level

Tier 4- the Pioneer...they are their own level of bad...

[rokamortis]

Tier 1 is NDSU. TIer 2 is the MVFC and CAA. Tier 3 is just about everyone else.

[Lehigh'98]

Tier 1 is NDSU. TIer 2 is the MVFC and CAA. Tier 3 is just about everyone else.

Pretty much, you could throw EWU, Montana & SHSU (2011&2012) and any team that reaches the qtrs in Tier 2 for a given year.

[SHUAlumni55]

NCAA Playoffs (2010-13)

Big South (4-4) Coastal has 3 wins, Stony Brook 1
Patriot (3-5) Lehigh has 2 wins, Fordham 1
NEC (1-4) Wagner has 1 win
MEAC (0-6)

Three of the Big South's 4 playoff wins were against the MEAC (2 vs. Bethune-Cookman) and NEC (1 vs. Albany). The other win is vs. the BigSky (Montana)


Whats even worse about this is because of the bias that we are trying to bring attention to these playoff losses are always against top seeded teams. If the NEC got a better chance to have thier BEST team in the ocnference ranked where they are competitive you would see more competitive playoff results.

[danefan]

NCAA Playoffs (2010-13)

Big South (4-4) Coastal has 3 wins, Stony Brook 1
Patriot (3-5) Lehigh has 2 wins, Fordham 1
NEC (1-4) Wagner has 1 win
MEAC (0-6)

Three of the Big South's 4 playoff wins were against the MEAC (2 vs. Bethune-Cookman) and NEC (1 vs. Albany). The other win is vs. the BigSky (Montana)

This is a big point. The Big South's playoff success vs the NEC isn't distinctive at all IMO.

[rokamortis]

This is a big point. The Big South's playoff success vs the NEC isn't distinctive at all IMO.

1 win vs 4, 1 win in the 2nd round vs 0, having at-large selection vs none: how is that not distinctive? It may not be great success compared with other conferences, but compared to the NEC it is. The NEC is more similar to the MEAC than the Big South.

[danefan]

1 win vs 4, 1 win in the 2nd round vs 0, having at-large selection vs none: how is that not distinctive? It may not be great success compared with other conferences, but compared to the NEC it is. The NEC is more similar to the MEAC than the Big South.

3 wins against bad teams (result of regionalization not superior play), 1 of which by a team that isn't in the conference anymore against a team that isn't in the NEC anymore.

At-large bids mean nothing to me. If you get an at-large and lose it means nothing other than you had a good season and in some cases had a champion on the committee.

The NEC and the Big South are closer than Big South fans would like to admit. It's ok, i wouldn't admit it either considering how much more money some of your schools are spending. Without Coastal you're basically the same, if not worse off than the NEC.

[rokamortis]

3 wins against bad teams (result of regionalization not superior play), 1 of which by a team that isn't in the conference anymore against a team that isn't in the NEC anymore.

At-large bids mean nothing to me. If you get an at-large and lose it means nothing other than you had a good season and in some cases had a champion on the committee.

The NEC and the Big South are closer than Big South fans would like to admit. It's ok, i wouldn't admit it either considering how much more money some of your schools are spending. Without Coastal you're basically the same, if not worse off than the NEC.

There is also a correction. The Big South has 5 wins. SBU has 2 - 1 over Albany and 1 over Villanova. The history doesn't change, facts don't change. SBU was a member of the Big South at the time and those wins count.

However you want to spin it - 5 wins is greater than 1. A season with 2 representatives is greater than zero. Having a 2nd round win over Montana is greater than 0. 2 wins over good teams vs none. I also find it humorous that you refer to Albany as a bad team when SBU beat them. So you are agreeing that the NEC isn't as good.

Again, the NEC is closer to the MEAC, and I suppose their spending levels, than the Big South. In comparison, the NEC is the northern MEAC. The cupcake as a result of regionalization.

[aceinthehole]

FYI - the NEC is 4-4 vs. MEAC teams

CCSU (1-0) vs. Delaware State
CCSU (1-0) vs. N.C. Central
Sacred Heart (0-1) vs. Morgan State
St. Francis (0-1) vs. Delaware State
Robert Morris (1-1) vs. Morgan State
Monmouth (1-1) vs. Morgan State

CCSU will host Howard laster this season.

[rokamortis]

FYI - the NEC is 4-4 vs. MEAC teams

CCSU (1-0) vs. Delaware State
CCSU (1-0) vs. N.C. Central
Sacred Heart (0-1) vs. Morgan State
St. Francis (0-1) vs. Delaware State
Robert Morris (1-1) vs. Morgan State
Monmouth (1-1) vs. Morgan State

CCSU will host Howard laster this season.

So the NEC is even with the MEAC clubs - interesting xcoffeex.

I'm not sure about the rest of the Big South, but Coastal is 20-1 vs MEAC.

[aceinthehole]

The sample size of interleague games in some cases is small, but this goes to my larger point - the "scholarship status" of each conference is a misplaced grouping or predictor of quality.

As I have argued, the NEC/PL/Ivy/MEAC are very similar conferences competatively and no one has proved to really "separate themselves" from the others.

NEC - Limited (40) scholarships
PL - Formerly grant-in-aid, transitioning to 60 scholarships
Ivy - "Non-scholarship"
MEAC - "Full Scholarship"

Head-to-head, these conferences are much the same. Each one has some good programs, and some awful ones. But top-to-bottom I find very little distinction between them on the field.

[bjtheflamesfan]

So the NEC is even with the MEAC clubs - interesting xcoffeex.

I'm not sure about the rest of the Big South, but Coastal is 20-1 vs MEAC.


I would have to do some research but in the last 14 seasons, I believe Liberty's only losses to the MEAC were the two losses to Norfolk State in 2005 and 2012

Edit: also a loss to Delaware State in 2000

[penguinpower]

I believe the CAA is 0-13 against FBS competition and 18-6 vs other FCS conferences. Of the 6 losses four have come to partial scholarship teams from the NEC and Patriot League. It either speaks to the strength of the NEC increasing or a weakening CAA or a little bit of both.

[danefan]

I believe the CAA is 0-13 against FBS competition and 18-6 vs other FCS conferences. Of the 6 losses four have come to partial scholarship teams from the NEC and Patriot League. It either speaks to the strength of the NEC increasing or a weakening CAA or a little bit of both.

A little of both this year.

[SHUAlumni55]

I'll be staying quiet for a little bit. But, IF SHU pulls something impressive out on the road at Delaware. I will certainly pull the poll bias card again.

bump.....

[SHUAlumni55]

10-7 SHU over UD with 8:28 left

[SHUAlumni55]

SHU wins over perennial "top tier, top conference" UD. Time to reorganize AGS, Coaches, and TSN!!!!!

[aceinthehole]

And to add more gas to the ever raging NEC-PL debates ...

Delaware is 4-2 in their last 6 games vs. NEC opponents. NEC teams have 2 wins over UD since 2006.

2006 - L, Albany
2007 - W, Monmouth
2008 - W, Albany
2010 - W, Duquesne
2012 - W, Wagner
2014 - L, Sacred Heart

Delaware is 7-1 in their last 8 games vs. the Patriot League. The last PL win over the Blue Hens was in 1999.

2013 - W, Bucknell
2010 - W, Lehigh (playoffs)
2005 - W, Lehigh
2005 - W, Holy Cross
2004 - W, Lafayette (Playoffs)
2003 - W, Colgate (Playoffs)
2000 - W, Lehigh (Playoffs)
1999 - L, Lehigh

[superman7515]

SHU wins over perennial "top tier, top conference" UD. Time to reorganize AGS, Coaches, and TSN!!!!!

Absolutely not. I have been steadfast in saying that UD is not a good team, they have not received a Top 25 vote from me in two years, nor have they deserved one. A bad team beating a bad team doesn't equate to a good win.

[SHUAlumni55]

Absolutely not. I have been steadfast in saying that UD is not a good team, they have not received a Top 25 vote from me in two years, nor have they deserved one. A bad team beating a bad team doesn't equate to a good win.

ok, so what say you JMU? Bad teams beat you?

[aceinthehole]

Absolutely not. I have been steadfast in saying that UD is not a good team, they have not received a Top 25 vote from me in two years, nor have they deserved one. A bad team beating a bad team doesn't equate to a good win.

I assume he was being facetious.

No matter how bad the Hens may be, they did beat Colgate and JMU earlier this year, so let's recognize this for what it is - another NEC victory over the CAA.

The NEC is is 5-2 vs. the CAA this year. How many years do we have to go back before any league has won 5 games vs. CAA opponents in a single season? The Patriot League needs to go back many seasons before they can count up 5 CAA wins.

NEC Wins
Bryant at Stony Brook
CCSU at Towson
Bryant vs. Maine
CCSU vs. Rhode Isand
Sacred Heart at Delaware

CAA wins
Albany at CCSU
James Madison vs. St. Francis

[crusader11]

And to add more gas to the ever raging NEC-PL debates ...

Delaware is 4-2 in their last 6 games vs. NEC opponents. NEC teams have 2 wins over UD since 2006.

2006 - L, Albany
2007 - W, Monmouth
2008 - W, Albany
2010 - W, Duquesne
2012 - W, Wagner
2014 - L, Sacred Heart

Delaware is 7-1 in their last 8 games vs. the Patriot League. The last PL win over the Blue Hens was in 1999.

2013 - W, Bucknell
2010 - W, Lehigh (playoffs)
2005 - W, Lehigh
2005 - W, Holy Cross
2004 - W, Lafayette (Playoffs)
2003 - W, Colgate (Playoffs)
2000 - W, Lehigh (Playoffs)
1999 - L, Lehigh

Talk about looking at the two conferences through a vacuum. Come on.

Wouldn't it be better to look at the head to head record between the NEC and PL over, say, the last five seasons?

[aceinthehole]

Talk about looking at the two conferences through a vacuum. Come on.

Wouldn't it be better to look at the head to head record between the NEC and PL over, say, the last five seasons?

That has been done many times as well ... feel free to post.

[dgreco]

Another great day for NEC football teams; the gap is closing.

[SHUAlumni55]

Talk about looking at the two conferences through a vacuum. Come on.

Wouldn't it be better to look at the head to head record between the NEC and PL over, say, the last five seasons?


did if you just say "five seasons"? Come on! I guess the ACC should not have had a chance for the national championship last year? Because of the previous four seasons?

[Lehigh'98]

Frankly, I have no problem saying the NEC is as good as the PL. The only difference I see is usually the top team from the PL is better than anyone from the NEC. Same this year w Fordham. The rest of the PL is horrible.
2013, 2014 - Fordham better
2012 - Wagner beat Gate, Lehigh jobbed out of playoff spot
2011 - Lehigh better
2010 - Lehigh better, not sure who top NEC was.
1990 - 2009: Need data

[Engineer86]

Is our little brother acting up again.xnodx

[SHUAlumni55]

NEC gets an at large this year when you compare the bodies of work. If you continue to live in the vacuums that these rankings live then no, we don't. Another year of a top seeded top conference team vs. the conference champ from the NEC and the top team at home probably wins. Then the top conference guys say they suck and can't win playoff games. What more can we do?

[Engineer86]

NEC gets an at large this year when you compare the bodies of work. If you continue to live in the vacuums that these rankings live then no, we don't. Another year of a top seeded top conference team vs. the conference champ from the NEC and the top team at home probably wins. Then the top conference guys say they suck and can't win playoff games. What more can we do?

I don't know ... Win on the road? I am not sure what you guys are thinking are big wins that warrant such fanfare? The PL has been bad the last two years and Delaware is down. The JMU win is not a good win, Lehigh should have beat them. UD's other wins Colgate (from a down PL) and DSU for MEAC. Oh did I say MEAC, I meant the league that will get that second bid you are looking for. Why? Well because they need extra chances for a playoff win.

[superman7515]

I don't know ... Win on the road? I am not sure what you guys are thinking are big wins that warrant such fanfare? The PL has been bad the last two years and Delaware is down. The JMU win is not a good win, Lehigh should have beat them. UD's other wins Colgate (from a down PL) and DSU for MEAC. Oh did I say MEAC, I meant the league that will get that second bid you are looking for. Why? Well because they need extra chances for a playoff win.

And the Colgate and JMU wins weren't exactly UD on cruise control.

[superman7515]

Side note: Watched the game with Keshaudas Spence's mother (and Trejon Dinkins' as well)... Phew! Ms. Spence is a piece of work, but entertaining as hell, haha!

http://www.sacredheartpioneers.com/sports/m-footbl/2014-15/bios/spence_keshaudas_4h88

[SHUAlumni55]

Side note: Watched the game with Keshaudas Spence's mother (and Trejon Dinkins' as well)... Phew! Ms. Spence is a piece of work, but entertaining as hell, haha!

http://www.sacredheartpioneers.com/sports/m-footbl/2014-15/bios/spence_keshaudas_4h88

haha! I can only imagine! I met her at fordham last year! Team looks better than you thought, admit it!

[superman7515]

haha! I can only imagine! I met her at fordham last year! Team looks better than you thought, admit it!

Absolutely not. That may be the worst football game I've ever seen played at Delaware Stadium, bar none. Not just by SHU, not knocking your team specifically as UD was right there in the muck as well, and my god that was terrible football. Nearly 800 yards of combined offense and it was all coming between the 20's for both teams. Someone claimed UD was playing down to the level of their competition and that is BS. Delaware is exactly what we saw out there today. A rudderless, leaderless ship, adrift on a sea of nostalgia for days gone by, slowly sinking into irrelevancy. It was a really boring game to be in attendance for. That's why we had to entertain ourselves in the stands, haha.

Delaware Football was but a walking shadow, a poor player that strutted and fretted his hour upon the stage, and then is heard no more. It is a tale, told by an idiot, full of sound and fury. Signifying nothing.

[Lehigh'98]

Absolutely not. That may be the worst football game I've ever seen played at Delaware Stadium, bar none. Not just by SHU, not knocking your team specifically as UD was right there in the muck as well, and my god that was terrible football. Nearly 800 yards of combined offense and it was all coming between the 20's for both teams. Someone claimed UD was playing down to the level of their competition and that is BS. Delaware is exactly what we saw out there today. A rudderless, leaderless ship, adrift on a sea of nostalgia for days gone by, slowly sinking into irrelevancy. It was a really boring game to be in attendance for. That's why we had to entertain ourselves in the stands, haha.

Delaware Football was but a walking shadow, a poor player that strutted and fretted his hour upon the stage, and then is heard no more. It is a tale, told by an idiot, full of sound and fury. Signifying nothing.

jesus, now I'm depressed and I hate Delaware!! Deep stuff

[blackbeard]

Side note: Watched the game with Keshaudas Spence's mother (and Trejon Dinkins' as well)... Phew! Ms. Spence is a piece of work, but entertaining as hell, haha!

http://www.sacredheartpioneers.com/sports/m-footbl/2014-15/bios/spence_keshaudas_4h88

Yes she is on all accounts! But she loves her son and he loves his momma. The kid's life is a pretty incredible story. He has a special place in my heart as a fan and parent of a player who came in the same recruiting class.

[superman7515]

Yes she is on all accounts! But she loves her son and he loves his momma. The kid's life is a pretty incredible story. He has a special place in my heart as a fan and parent of a player who came in the same recruiting class.

Sorry I missed you there Blackbeard, I thoroughly enjoyed the day with her. She was making the six hour drive back up tonight with the other boys, so here's hoping for safe travels.

[MR. CHICKEN]

Absolutely not. That may be the worst football game I've ever seen played at Delaware Stadium, bar none. Not just by SHU, not knocking your team specifically as UD was right there in the muck as well, and my god that was terrible football. Nearly 800 yards of combined offense and it was all coming between the 20's for both teams. Someone claimed UD was playing down to the level of their competition and that is BS. Delaware is exactly what we saw out there today. A rudderless, leaderless ship, adrift on a sea of nostalgia for days gone by, slowly sinking into irrelevancy. It was a really boring game to be in attendance for. That's why we had to entertain ourselves in the stands, haha.

Delaware Football was but a walking shadow, a poor player that strutted and fretted his hour upon the stage, and then is heard no more. It is a tale, told by an idiot, full of sound and fury. Signifying nothing.


19783....SHAKESPEARE....xconfusedx.........BROCK!

[superman7515]

19783....SHAKESPEARE....xconfusedx.........BROCK?

Yep. Macbeth.

And until Birnham wood comes to Dunsinane and Macduff removes the cursed usurpers head...

http://www.udel.edu/udaily/2013/oct/images/NewADPressConf-065.jpg

Damned be him that first cries, "Hold, enough!"

[MR. CHICKEN]

19785


....IS IT ME...O' DOES ZIADY...HAVE UH BIGGER BEAK....DAN....YOU-DEE........ER...UH...UMMM....EH.......AWQ!

[TheRevSFA]

What's the NEC and who's Sacred Heart?

[BlueHenSinfonian]

Absolutely not. That may be the worst football game I've ever seen played at Delaware Stadium, bar none. Not just by SHU, not knocking your team specifically as UD was right there in the muck as well, and my god that was terrible football. Nearly 800 yards of combined offense and it was all coming between the 20's for both teams. Someone claimed UD was playing down to the level of their competition and that is BS. Delaware is exactly what we saw out there today. A rudderless, leaderless ship, adrift on a sea of nostalgia for days gone by, slowly sinking into irrelevancy. It was a really boring game to be in attendance for. That's why we had to entertain ourselves in the stands, haha.

Delaware Football was but a walking shadow, a poor player that strutted and fretted his hour upon the stage, and then is heard no more. It is a tale, told by an idiot, full of sound and fury. Signifying nothing.

Gah, I thought the guys on GoHens.net were getting depressing.

It's a dip in the road, we played poorly against a better than average NEC team and paid the price. SHU's defense did look great out there, they have some big players, and our O-Line is still a major issue. This will all pass, all teams struggle from time to time.

Hopefully this comes as a wake up call to the coaching staff and team and we put some hurt on the rest of the season.

[superman7515]

Gah, I thought the guys on GoHens.net were getting depressing.

It's a dip in the road, we played poorly against a better than average NEC team and paid the price. SHU's defense did look great out there, they have some big players, and our O-Line is still a major issue. This will all pass, all teams struggle from time to time.

Hopefully this comes as a wake up call to the coaching staff and team and we put some hurt on the rest of the season.

Eh, I don't know if this will come as a wake up call or not, but I've slept on it and put it behind me. Not really much else you can do about it anyway. Disappointing, but that's the way football is at times. The first recruiting class entirely brought in by this staff are true freshman, still too early to gauge how that's going. Defensively they're about as bad a team as we've seen, the only upside is that they aren't last year's team, haha. Weaver needs to go. He's a complete and utter failure, no way around that. I don't discount Devine, but I think Hurley can sit for the rest of the season, might as well find out what's behind him.

[Engineer86]

Absolutely not. That may be the worst football game I've ever seen played at Delaware Stadium, bar none. Not just by SHU, not knocking your team specifically as UD was right there in the muck as well, and my god that was terrible football. Nearly 800 yards of combined offense and it was all coming between the 20's for both teams. Someone claimed UD was playing down to the level of their competition and that is BS. Delaware is exactly what we saw out there today. A rudderless, leaderless ship, adrift on a sea of nostalgia for days gone by, slowly sinking into irrelevancy. It was a really boring game to be in attendance for. That's why we had to entertain ourselves in the stands, haha.

Delaware Football was but a walking shadow, a poor player that strutted and fretted his hour upon the stage, and then is heard no more. It is a tale, told by an idiot, full of sound and fury. Signifying nothing.

I lost my dad (a three sport letterman at UD) three days before the 62-0 debacle. I was raised fearing a UD loss to Temple. I have to agree this is the weakest UD team that I recall in my lifetime.

[MR. CHICKEN]

19789.....WHEN YER USED TA DELAWARE...RELOADIN' EVERAH SEASON.......HARD TA SWALLAH....DUH FACT....WE'RE GONNAH STILL BE...COUPLE YEARS AWAY......FROM PLAYIN'...DUH BISONS...:(...AWQ!

[aceinthehole]

... against a better than average NEC team and paid the price. SHU's defense did look great out there, they have some big players, ...

Honestly, I have to ask. If this was only a "better than average NEC team" and the NEC is 5-2 vs. the CAA this year, what does that say about the CAA?

Seriously, you guys that lose have a million excuses. Every time a NEC team beats a CAA team - the CAA team is immediately labeled horrible. Yet the NEC has 3 different teams win CAA wins, and 2 NEC teams have multiple wins vs. the CAA this season.

I think SHUAlum55 may be going over the top (but I assume he's trying to make a bigger point). So how can the CAA be so bad at the same time the NEC is awful?

Too many wins by the NEC to be ignored, and while I don't expect the NEC to be labeled a "power conference" I think we can finally all agree now that they are as just as good or better than the PL, Ivy, MEAC.

[bjtheflamesfan]

Honestly, I have to ask. If this was only a "better than average NEC team" and the NEC is 5-2 vs. the CAA this year, what does that say about the CAA?

Seriously, you guys that lose have a million excuses. Every time a NEC team beats a CAA team - the CAA team is immediately labeled horrible. Yet the NEC has 3 different teams win CAA wins, and 2 NEC teams have multiple wins vs. the CAA this season.

I think SHUAlum55 may be going over the top (but I assume he's trying to make a bigger point). So how can the CAA be so bad at the same time the NEC is awful?

Too many wins by the NEC to be ignored, and while I don't expect the NEC to be labeled a "power conference" I think we can finally all agree now that they are as just as good or better than the PL, Ivy, MEAC.



Problem is that (minus the patriot) youre on par with essentially third tier conferences, based on my matrix I posted earlier in the discussion. You can build on that though, and maybe start scheduling some of the better teams from the CAA, SoCon and some of the other first and second tier conferences and winning those games, youll really start seeing a bit more respect coming the NEC's way

[Nova09]

Honestly, I have to ask. If this was only a "better than average NEC team" and the NEC is 5-2 vs. the CAA this year, what does that say about the CAA?

Seriously, you guys that lose have a million excuses. Every time a NEC team beats a CAA team - the CAA team is immediately labeled horrible. Yet the NEC has 3 different teams win CAA wins, and 2 NEC teams have multiple wins vs. the CAA this season.

I think SHUAlum55 may be going over the top (but I assume he's trying to make a bigger point). So how can the CAA be so bad at the same time the NEC is awful?

Too many wins by the NEC to be ignored, and while I don't expect the NEC to be labeled a "power conference" I think we can finally all agree now that they are as just as good or better than the PL, Ivy, MEAC.

And how have you done against the top half of the CAA?

[aceinthehole]

And how have you done against the top half of the CAA?

More importantly, how has the CAA done againt the "top half" of the NEC?

According to most folks, CCSU, Sacred Heart, and Bryant aren't any good. Central has a new head coach and was picked 4th out of 7 NEc team, yet they have 2 CAA scalps. Bryant was picked 6 out of 7 NEC teams just ahead of St. Francis, yet they also have 2 CAA wins. CAA preseason picks Towson (5), Delaware (6), Maine (7), Stony Brook (9), and URI (11) all lost to NEC teams.

I though the even worst of the CAA, a full scholarship "power conference," should never lose to a NEC team with 20 less scholarships?

Again, the excuses are as embarrassing as the losses.

[Nova09]

More importantly, how has the CAA done againt the "top half" of the NEC?

According to most folks, CCSU, Sacred Heart, and Bryant aren't any good. Central has a new head coach and was picked 4th out of 7 NEc team, yet they have 2 CAA scalps. Bryant was picked 6 out of 7 NEC teams just ahead of St. Francis, yet they also have 2 CAA wins. CAA preseason picks Towson (5), Delaware (6), Maine (7), Stony Brook (9), and URI (11) all lost to NEC teams.

I though the even worst of the CAA, a full scholarship "power conference," should never lose to a NEC team with 20 less scholarships?

Again, the excuses are as embarrassing as the losses.

I never said those teams aren't any good. Citing preseason rankings is beyond ridiculous. The down teams in the CAA certainly are not any better then the good NEC teams. But comparing the conferences when the CAA has multiple national championship contenders whereas the NEC goal is to win a playoff game does nothing to make you look like a knowledgeable football fan.

[aceinthehole]

I never said those teams aren't any good. Citing preseason rankings is beyond ridiculous. The down teams in the CAA certainly are not any better then the good NEC teams. But comparing the conferences when the CAA has multiple national championship contenders whereas the NEC goal is to win a playoff game does nothing to make you look like a knowledgeable football fan.

bull*****. Everyone can't have it both ways.

#9 Towson, coming of a FCS finals appearance and 20 more scholarships than the NEC, loses at home to a CCSU team that finished 4-8 last year and has a new coach. The Blue Devils got "lucky" or all of a sudden Towson in awful. Whatever ...

Delaware was #24 had wins over Colgate and James Madison this season, so by no means were they "awful." Sure, no one is going to confuse this years UD team with a National Championship contender, but many in the Blue Hens nation still thought was a playoff team just last week. All of a sudden they lost to an unknown Catholic school in Delaware Stadium who has played I-AA football for less than 25 years and now this is worst UD team in a century.

The real problem here is there are many (not all, but many) observers of CAA and FCS football that need to eat a lot of crow for the progress of the NEC over the last decade. They don't want to admit the times are a changin' and history and pedigree don't mean as much as they used too. The NEC is a very good league and getting better each year.

[bjtheflamesfan]

Its like I said...schedule up and start winning those games and youll see a bit more respect coming. schedule teams from the SoCon, Big South, Southland, even the Big Sky...teams that when people them on the schedule, they think, especially should you win, "hey, that's pretty impressive" not "meh...they arent that good this year"

[Nova09]

bull*****. Everyone can't have it both ways.

#9 Towson, coming of a FCS finals appearance and 20 more scholarships than the NEC, loses at home to a CCSU team that finished 4-8 last year and has a new coach. The Blue Devils got "lucky" or all of a sudden Towson in awful. Whatever ...

Delaware was #24 had wins over Colgate and James Madison this season, so by no means were they "awful." Sure, no one is going to confuse this years UD team with a National Championship contender, but many in the Blue Hens nation still thought was a playoff team just last week. All of a sudden they lost to an unknown Catholic school in Delaware Stadium who has played I-AA football for less than 25 years and now this is worst UD team in a century.

The real problem here is there are many (not all, but many) observers of CAA and FCS football that need to eat a lot of crow for the progress of the NEC over the last decade. They don't want to admit the times are a changin' and history and pedigree don't mean as much as they used too. The NEC is a very good league and getting better each year.

What are you calling bull**** on? You highlighted that I never said that, but can't find a place where I did say it, because I never did. Then you highlight that the CAA has multiple NC contenders, do you not think that's true?

AGS did not have Delaware at 24, so don;t know why you cite that on AGS boards. AGS collectively had Delaware at 38, so if you want to argue that SHU is better than 38 in the nation, go right ahead.

[citdog]

bull*****. Everyone can't have it both ways.

#9 Towson, coming of a FCS finals appearance and 20 more scholarships than the NEC, loses at home to a CCSU team that finished 4-8 last year and has a new coach. The Blue Devils got "lucky" or all of a sudden Towson in awful. Whatever ...

Delaware was #24 had wins over Colgate and James Madison this season, so by no means were they "awful." Sure, no one is going to confuse this years UD team with a National Championship contender, but many in the Blue Hens nation still thought was a playoff team just last week. All of a sudden they lost to an unknown Catholic school in Delaware Stadium who has played I-AA football for less than 25 years and now this is worst UD team in a century.

The real problem here is there are many (not all, but many) observers of CAA and FCS football that need to eat a lot of crow for the progress of the NEC over the last decade. They don't want to admit the times are a changin' and history and pedigree don't mean as much as they used too. The NEC is a very good league and getting better each year.

And there I was thinking that almost all of the schmeckle envy left the subdivision with appy and pigs ass, ga............

[Pard4Life]

People are biased and do not spend the time to thoroughly examine the evidence and whether their beliefs are negating the evidence.

Is the NEC team worthy of the top 10? No. The top 20-25 bracket? Sure.

That Delaware win was a good win.

[blackbeard]

What are you calling bull**** on? You highlighted that I never said that, but can't find a place where I did say it, because I never did. Then you highlight that the CAA has multiple NC contenders, do you not think that's true?

AGS did not have Delaware at 24, so don;t know why you cite that on AGS boards. AGS collectively had Delaware at 38, so if you want to argue that SHU is better than 38 in the nation, go right ahead.

I'm not buying that, in the preseason AGS pole Towson was 13, Maine 23, and Delaware 29. Each has a loss to a NEC program.

[citdog]

People are biased and do not spend the time to thoroughly examine the evidence and whether their beliefs are negating the evidence.

Is the NEC team worthy of the top 10? No. The top 20-25 bracket? Sure.

That Delaware win was a good win.

Our voters do a good job on putting DESERVING teams in the Top 25 and seeing what most of the Non-CAA teams in the northeast are. NOT DESERVING.

[MR. CHICKEN]

I'm not buying that, in the preseason AGS pole Towson was 13, Maine 23, and Delaware 29. Each has a loss to a NEC program.



19801......GOOD WIN...PIONEER.....NOT TA TAKE ANYTHIN' FROM YER W.........HOWEVERAH.....BELOW IS PROJECTED ORDER UH FINISH IN CAA 2014:

TOWSON 5TH

DELAWARE 6TH

MAINE 7TH.............AN' MAINE HAS ALREADY BEATEN TOWSON....IN MARYLAND....BRAWK!

STONY BROOK 9TH........ALREADY BEAT TOWSON........IN MARYLAND......AWK!

[GoBlueHens83]

bull*****. Everyone can't have it both ways.

#9 Towson, coming of a FCS finals appearance and 20 more scholarships than the NEC, loses at home to a CCSU team that finished 4-8 last year and has a new coach. The Blue Devils got "lucky" or all of a sudden Towson in awful. Whatever ...

Delaware was #24 had wins over Colgate and James Madison this season, so by no means were they "awful." Sure, no one is going to confuse this years UD team with a National Championship contender, but many in the Blue Hens nation still thought was a playoff team just last week. All of a sudden they lost to an unknown Catholic school in Delaware Stadium who has played I-AA football for less than 25 years and now this is worst UD team in a century.

The real problem here is there are many (not all, but many) observers of CAA and FCS football that need to eat a lot of crow for the progress of the NEC over the last decade. They don't want to admit the times are a changin' and history and pedigree don't mean as much as they used too. The NEC is a very good league and getting better each year.

This is bull****. Delaware is not good. They were not good to start the season, and are looking worse each week. I didn't see many Hens fans saying that they were a playoff team prior to this week. What I did hear a few saying is that we could possibly make it to 6-1, be highly ranked, and still be a bad football team because of our favorable schedule. Delaware was going to get exposed at some point, Sacred Heart took care of that earlier than most Hen fans expected. Congrats to SHU on the win, but please don't confuse UD with a good team. At this point it would be hard to confuse them with a football team at all.

[Nova09]

I'm not buying that, in the preseason AGS pole Towson was 13, Maine 23, and Delaware 29. Each has a loss to a NEC program.

I'm not buying that a win over a 2-4 team that will win at most 4 games all season is a good win. I don't care what their preseason ranking was, I've actually seen them and they are not good. If you think they are then you have discredited any judgments you post about who deserves to be ranked.

[blackbeard]

19801......GOOD WIN...PIONEER.....NOT TA TAKE ANYTHIN' FROM YER W.........HOWEVERAH.....BELOW IS PROJECTED ORDER UH FINISH IN CAA 2014:

TOWSON 5TH

DELAWARE 6TH

MAINE 7TH.............AN' MAINE HAS ALREADY BEATEN TOWSON....IN MARYLAND....BRAWK!

STONY BROOK 9TH........ALREADY BEAT TOWSON........IN MARYLAND......AWK!

I know by Delaware standards this team is no where near as good as past UD teams. Many on this board take shots at other polls and brag on how good the AGS poll is. I was simply pointing out that based on the preseason AGS poll most expected Towson, Maine and Delaware to be pretty good teams - and each has an NEC loss.

[superman7515]

This is bull****. Delaware is not good. They were not good to start the season, and are looking worse each week. I didn't see many Hens fans saying that they were a playoff team prior to this week. What I did hear a few saying is that we could possibly make it to 6-1, be highly ranked, and still be a bad football team because of our favorable schedule. Delaware was going to get exposed at some point, Sacred Heart took care of that earlier than most Hen fans expected. Congrats to SHU on the win, but please don't confuse UD with a good team. At this point it would be hard to confuse them with a football team at all.

This! If anyone was saying UD was playoff worthy, they were delusional...

9/16

Neither Bucknell nor Delaware should be getting any votes.


9/21

What has Delaware done this season to make you think that's a win worth ranking someone for? Because I've been in my seat at every minute of every snap this year and they could just as easily be 4-8 as 8-4 this season.




9/29

Too much love for Delaware at this point. With Sacred Heart, Elon, and Towson at home in the coming weeks it is feasible that this team could start 6-1 and still not be worth a damn.

[hebmskebm]

UNH and Nova are the only two CAA teams that could beat every NEC team handily 9/10 times. The top teams of the NEC are competitive with the rest of the CAA.

[aceinthehole]

UNH and Nova are the only two CAA teams that could beat every NEC team handily 9/10 times. The top teams of the NEC are competitive with the rest of the CAA.

I agree. UNH and 'Nova are really good this year. But who are the "top NEC teams" according to the observers?

- CCSU is just 2-3 this year, yet both wins are over CAA teams.
- According to some, Bryant got run out of Lynchburg by the mighty Flames, yet they have scalped both Stony Brook and Maine.
- Sacred Heart lost to Bucknell at home, but was still able to beat the Hens and hold them to just a TD.

So what is it? Are those NEC teams really "bad"? If so, how much worse are the CAA teams that lost? If not, that must mean the NEC teams are "good," right?

[hebmskebm]

I agree. UNH and 'Nova are really good this year. But who are the "top NEC teams" according to the observers?

- CCSU is just 2-3 this year, yet both wins are over CAA teams.
- According to some, Bryant got run out of Lynchburg by the mighty Flames, yet they have scalped both Stony Brook and Maine.
- Sacred Heart lost to Bucknell at home, but was still able to beat the Hens and hold them to just a TD.

So what is it? Are those NEC teams really "bad"? If so, how much worse are the CAA teams that lost? If not, that must mean the NEC teams are "good," right?

Bryant, SHU, CCSU, Duquesne are all comparable to CAA teams other than UNH and Nova this year. W&M is probably the best of those teams, but they're definitely not head and shoulders above the rest.

[32counter]

UNH and Nova are the only two CAA teams that could beat every NEC team handily 9/10 times. The top teams of the NEC are competitive with the rest of the CAA.

We Spiders and the folks in Williamsburg would really like to play an NEC team this season.Maybe we'll have a chance in the playoffs and then we can compare notes on the validity of your hypothesis.

[aceinthehole]

I'm not buying that a win over a 2-4 team that will win at most 4 games all season is a good win. I don't care what their preseason ranking was, I've actually seen them and they are not good. If you think they are then you have discredited any judgments you post about who deserves to be ranked.

Huh? Delaware was 3-1 heading into the game vs. SHU. We don't know, but UD could easily finish the year 7-5 and 5-3 in the CAA.

Again, that's not a great UD team, but far from the worst team ever. Still very possible they Hens finish better than their 2008 record of 4-8 - and that year UD beat NEC member Albany.

[yorkcountyUNHfan]

If you NEC folks think WM and Richmond are well below UNH you need to think again

[BlueHenSinfonian]

bull*****. Everyone can't have it both ways.

#9 Towson, coming of a FCS finals appearance and 20 more scholarships than the NEC, loses at home to a CCSU team that finished 4-8 last year and has a new coach. The Blue Devils got "lucky" or all of a sudden Towson in awful. Whatever ...

Delaware was #24 had wins over Colgate and James Madison this season, so by no means were they "awful." Sure, no one is going to confuse this years UD team with a National Championship contender, but many in the Blue Hens nation still thought was a playoff team just last week. All of a sudden they lost to an unknown Catholic school in Delaware Stadium who has played I-AA football for less than 25 years and now this is worst UD team in a century.

The real problem here is there are many (not all, but many) observers of CAA and FCS football that need to eat a lot of crow for the progress of the NEC over the last decade. They don't want to admit the times are a changin' and history and pedigree don't mean as much as they used too. The NEC is a very good league and getting better each year.

Towson was overrated coming into this season. Towson was historically a bottom dweller until West came along, and is now returning to form.

Delaware is possibly the most inconsistent team in the FCS over the past couple of years - great when everything clicks, but fully capable of laying complete eggs and playing like a mediocre D2 as seen last night.

I don't say that to diminish the NEC, I think the NEC has made strides, and I had Sacred Heart ranked earlier in this year, they may make my ballot again, as I'm about to do it. Bryant has also looked impressive.

The NEC is having an up year, the CAA is having a down year.

[citdog]

Towson not being #2 in the preseason poll was quite telling about how our voters thought they would fare.

[UNHWildcat18]

TOP NEC teams are just Bryant and SHU and they would not win vs UNH NOVA UR or W&M. Besides these teams the CAA is WAYYYYY down this year and the rest of the teams are mediocre. NEC you have to give credit to though, they are doing much better this year overall then in the previous years. As long as the scholly difference is 23 they will never "catch up" top to bottom to compete with our top to bottom.

[blackbeard]

As long as the scholly difference is 23 they will never "catch up" top to bottom to compete with our top to bottom.

Absolutely correct!

[aceinthehole]

Towson was overrated coming into this season. Towson was historically a bottom dweller until West came along, and is now returning to form.

Delaware is possibly the most inconsistent team in the FCS over the past couple of years - great when everything clicks, but fully capable of laying complete eggs and playing like a mediocre D2 as seen last night.

I don't say that to diminish the NEC, I think the NEC has made strides, and I had Sacred Heart ranked earlier in this year, they may make my ballot again, as I'm about to do it. Bryant has also looked impressive.

The NEC is having an up year, the CAA is having a down year.

I concur. As I said, this doesn't change the balance of power in the East, but what it does is exposes the fans who like to disparage this NEC.

But to take this a step further, NEC teams have 20 less scholarships and little to no football pedigree, so these wins take on an ever greater weight and importance. As recently as 10 years ago, the NEC was playing under a D-III aid model where every NEC team, every week was considered a "cupcake" for the CAA, as well as the Patriot.

The NEC won more games vs. the CAA this year (5) than the Patriot League has won in at least the last 5 years. All I'm saying is let's give credit where credit is due.

[downbythebeach]

I don't wanna flame the CAA as I get to CAA games several times a year...but I don't believe they are having a down year....this is their new normal. UD will no longer be the UD teams of a decade ago. I go to games in Newark and it seems as if no one, at least the students, care. Their GameDay atmosphere is very poor they would honestly fit in the NEC...and ours sucks. The epicenter of the FCS is heading farther west every year.

[superman7515]

All I'm saying is let's give credit where credit is due.

And all this thread was saying is that Sacred Heart deserves to be ranked, "should have started in the top 20 and have climbed every week based on last year," even though this poll is about this year and not last, and too a lesser extent the Sacred Heart poster also propped up Bryant. My answer remains the same as it has from the very beginning of this season; a win over Delaware is not a "good" victory that catapults a team into the Top 25. Neither are any of the Pioneers other wins. As someone else said, I wouldn't rank a CAA team if they had the same record against the same teams that Sacred Heart has, nor would I rank a SoCon team or a Patriot team or an MVFC team other than UNI... xsmiley_wix

It has nothing to do with a dislike of the NEC or any sort of ax to grind. I didn't suddenly switch my opinion after the loss to Sacred Heart, I've been consistent in my analysis of UD all season, they are not a good team. Did I hope for more? Absolutely! What fan doesn't? But I was very clear that UD could win 7-8 games and be nothing more than a paper tiger. Look at last season for example.

[superman7515]

UD will no longer be the UD teams of a decade ago. I go to games in Newark and it seems as if no one, at least the students, care.

That's quite possibly true, but an entirely different can of worms, haha.

[Engineer86]

People are biased and do not spend the time to thoroughly examine the evidence and whether their beliefs are negating the evidence.

Is the NEC team worthy of the top 10? No. The top 20-25 bracket? Sure.

That Delaware win was a good win.

No it was not!

[Engineer86]

I concur. As I said, this doesn't change the balance of power in the East, but what it does is exposes the fans who like to disparage this NEC.

But to take this a step further, NEC teams have 20 less scholarships and little to no football pedigree, so these wins take on an ever greater weight and importance. As recently as 10 years ago, the NEC was playing under a D-III aid model where every NEC team, every week was considered a "cupcake" for the CAA, as well as the Patriot.

The NEC won more games vs. the CAA this year (5) than the Patriot League has won in at least the last 5 years. All I'm saying is let's give credit where credit is due.

Who was the Patriot Leagueteam that CCSU beat?, please play the top teams in either league and beat them, then come back on here and crow.

[bjtheflamesfan]

Bucknell yesterday

never mind you meant CCSU...

[BlueHenSinfonian]

I don't wanna flame the CAA as I get to CAA games several times a year...but I don't believe they are having a down year....this is their new normal. UD will no longer be the UD teams of a decade ago. I go to games in Newark and it seems as if no one, at least the students, care. Their GameDay atmosphere is very poor they would honestly fit in the NEC...and ours sucks. The epicenter of the FCS is heading farther west every year.

We'll see what happens, but I think you're wrong there. The MVFC (former Gateway) fell on some hard times, as did the OVC, and now they're just coming back. The top teams in the CAA are still very strong.

Stony Brook had a couple of breakout seasons, they're just down this year. Albany is already much better than last year, and should continue to improve with more scholarships, greater visibility, and tougher week to week competition. Elon will likely follow the same course (though they were already full scholly).

JMU and Delaware are just both early in rebuild mode, and I have a feeling will rise back at a similar pace. Brock is trying to bring Delaware's program back to fundamental roots of success - recruit heavily in the region, find the diamonds in the rough that the big schools miss, and develop a team from the ground up to be NC challengers year in and year out instead of transfer-driven flashes in the pan followed by years of mediocrity.

If he does it right, and I'll admit it's a big if, UD can do what NDSU is doing now.

It will take a few years for everything to come to fruition, but Brock's first class is solid, and the word is the one they're working on now is even better. Once dominance is reestablished on the field the sellout crowds and bigger game day atmosphere will come back with it.

[Nova09]

Huh? Delaware was 3-1 heading into the game vs. SHU. We don't know, but UD could easily finish the year 7-5 and 5-3 in the CAA.

Again, that's not a great UD team, but far from the worst team ever. Still very possible they Hens finish better than their 2008 record of 4-8 - and that year UD beat NEC member Albany.

I was referring to Towson, who another poster keeps trying to get credit for beating. Towson is awful, not because they lost to an NEC team, just because their team is awful. Citing it as a quality win for the NEC does not show that the NEC poster is knowledgeable of quality football.

[bjtheflamesfan]

We're at the point in the season where last year is a pile of horse manure as far as this year is concerned. also preaseason rankings stop mattering about game 3 so citing those doesn't help the case either

[aceinthehole]

Who was the Patriot Leagueteam that CCSU beat?, please play the top teams in either league and beat them, then come back on here and crow.

How soon you forget ...

2005 - CCSU beats Colgate in Hamilton
2009 - CCSU beats Lehigh in Bethlehem
2013 - Lehigh escapes with a 51-44 OT victory in New Britain

[bjtheflamesfan]

What math are you using? how can a team win by 14 in overtime?

Edit: dont get up...I found it for you...it was 51-44 so you reversed a couple numbers...smh.

[PAllen]

What math are you using? how can a team win by 14 in overtime?

Edit: dont get up...I found it for you...it was 51-44 so you reversed a couple numbers...smh.

First team with possession scores a TD, goes for two and makes it (+8). Other team gets possession, throws a pick/fumbles it to defender who runs it all the way in for a score (+14). You'll never see it happen, but it could :D

[SHUAlumni55]

And all this thread was saying is that Sacred Heart deserves to be ranked, "should have started in the top 20 and have climbed every week based on last year," even though this poll is about this year and not last, and too a lesser extent the Sacred Heart poster also propped up Bryant. My answer remains the same as it has from the very beginning of this season; a win over Delaware is not a "good" victory that catapults a team into the Top 25. Neither are any of the Pioneers other wins. As someone else said, I wouldn't rank a CAA team if they had the same record against the same teams that Sacred Heart has, nor would I rank a SoCon team or a Patriot team or an MVFC team other than UNI... xsmiley_wix
.

SHU should have started as a preseason top 20 team, based on last years results. They won a conference that is continuing to make a compelling argument to be able to compete with "tier 2 and tier 3" conferences. They also returned a majority of their team this year which should also be a factor in preseason rankings. But as long as the pollsters continue to keep the top tier 2 and 3 conference teams out of the rankings then these teams can never climb into the rankings even with good OOC wins. It's a chicken and egg argument. The rest of the NEC schedules will not earn respect in your posters eyes because they don't have anyone ranked left on the schedule. Wheras anyone who does well in conference from the CAA will surely be ranked. When the NEC teams did have a chance in OOC games to beat ranked teams they did a pretty awesome job this year. That's where this is just not adding up for the general point of this thread. Respect has been earned but not acknowledged in the rankings.

[dgreco]

I'm growing tired of this thread, y'all aren't peacocking Bryant enough.

[SHUAlumni55]

I completely agree with you dgreco. Bryant is deserving likely even moreso than SHU at this point. But until at least one or two NEC teams are in the rankings, our in conference schedule will be considered soft, which is obviously not the case based on the conference's OOC results.

[TheRevSFA]

SHU should have started as a preseason top 20 team, based on last years results. They won a conference that is continuing to make a compelling argument to be able to compete with "tier 2 and tier 3" conferences. They also returned a majority of their team this year which should also be a factor in preseason rankings. But as long as the pollsters continue to keep the top tier 2 and 3 conference teams out of the rankings then these teams can never climb into the rankings even with good OOC wins. It's a chicken and egg argument. The rest of the NEC schedules will not earn respect in your posters eyes because they don't have anyone ranked left on the schedule. Wheras anyone who does well in conference from the CAA will surely be ranked. When the NEC teams did have a chance in OOC games to beat ranked teams they did a pretty awesome job this year. That's where this is just not adding up for the general point of this thread. Respect has been earned but not acknowledged in the rankings.

You done yet? Get out of the NEC or schedule some mvfc big sky or Southland teams

[M Ruler]

Somebody please give Bryant and SHU props so we can get on with our lives. When Albany was in the NEC they never got the props they deserved either but we quit bitching about it by this point in the season. Move on.

SHU and Bryant are on par with the mid to bottom tier of the CAA and the entire PL. Does this help? One team from the NEC will get the at large and it will probably be Duquesne. When the NCAA pairings are made you will put the theory to the test

[Nova09]

Bryant has parlayed their 3 DI wins into a ranking ahead of a liberty team that dominated them just last week. Can you agree this thread is stupid now and no one is irrationally holding NEC teams back?

[aceinthehole]

SHU and Bryant are on par with the mid to bottom tier of the CAA and the entire PL.

Yep! xnodx


SHU should have started as a preseason top 20 team, based on last years results. They won a conference that is continuing to make a compelling argument to be able to compete with "tier 2 and tier 3" conferences. They also returned a majority of their team this year which should also be a factor in preseason rankings. But as long as the pollsters continue to keep the top tier 2 and 3 conference teams out of the rankings then these teams can never climb into the rankings even with good OOC wins ... That's where this is just not adding up for the general point of this thread. Respect has been earned but not acknowledged in the rankings. xthumbsupx

For a board that has every other thread hijaked by the Patriot League, here's the reality ... the NEC has more positive news to post then ever before. Sorry if it offends some posters' sensibilities, but if you don't like it, don't read it.

Let's not act like we are whining about everything. We make a compelling argument based on results, and for some of the "establishment" that isn't enough (and it never will be). The up-and-coming conference is going to have that uphill battle earning respect, that ok.

The sore spot for most people here is simple, before 2005 the NEC had few, if any, wins vs. the PL, Ivy, and CAA. Since then we have won with more regularity than anyone from those leagues are comfortable accepting.

[PAllen]

You done yet? Get out of the NEC or schedule some mvfc big sky or Southland teams

Can they play SHSU or are they too busy scheduling D-II teams to lose to?

[PAllen]

Should SHU and Bryant be ranked in the top 25? Yup.
Should they be ranked in the top 10? Nope.
Is the Patriot League having a terrible year? Yup.
Is most of the CAA weaker than usual? Yup.
Does any of this really matter right now? Nope.

[DoubleH]

bull*****. Everyone can't have it both ways.

#9 Towson, coming of a FCS finals appearance and 20 more scholarships than the NEC, loses at home to a CCSU team that finished 4-8 last year and has a new coach. The Blue Devils got "lucky" or all of a sudden Towson in awful. Whatever ...

Delaware was #24 had wins over Colgate and James Madison this season, so by no means were they "awful." Sure, no one is going to confuse this years UD team with a National Championship contender, but many in the Blue Hens nation still thought was a playoff team just last week. All of a sudden they lost to an unknown Catholic school in Delaware Stadium who has played I-AA football for less than 25 years and now this is worst UD team in a century.

The real problem here is there are many (not all, but many) observers of CAA and FCS football that need to eat a lot of crow for the progress of the NEC over the last decade. They don't want to admit the times are a changin' and history and pedigree don't mean as much as they used too. The NEC is a very good league and getting better each year.

Here's the key point you're not getting: all the NEC wins this year have come against mediocre-to-bad teams, and all have been close. The top of the CAA ('Nova, UNH, etc) would obliterate any team from the NEC. OBLITERATE. This would hold true in any given year, not just 2014. Last year's Towson team would have destroyed the CCSU team they lost to this year, please don't argue otherwise.

It's funny, I've watched 2 of the NEC wins this year, and seen Maine on a few occasions as well. Note, these aren't excuses here, but let's be realistic about these NEC wins:

1) CCSU over Towson. Tigers lost entire O-line, TE, RB, and QB on offense, 2 DL, 2 LB, and 2 DB on D. Very young team, was outgained but CCSU still needed - on the final, game-winning 4th quarter drive - a roughing the kicker penalty while punting to keep the drive alive, and a 4th-and-13 conversion, to win the game. As stated, last year's Towson team crushes CCSU.

2) Bryant over SBU. Attended this game, SBU's now-benched QB was truly awful, and their weak O-line was dominated by a very solid Bryant front 7. All that said, Bryant managed only 2 FGs on consistently tremendous field position set up by the D, and scored their only TD on a 4th-and-8 where their 1 good offensive player (WR #8) broke a tackle and took a slant to the house.

3) Bryant over Maine. Maine is starting 2 freshman tackles, and a new QB. That plays right to Bryant's strength, and they only found the endzone with 3 minutes left to win, once again I believe it was their WR, who is pretty good. Last year's Maine team wins handily.

4) CCSU over URI. Let's be honest, URI is a CAA-team in name only. Any team trumpeting a win over the poor Rams needs a serious reality check. To be even more honest, URI should probably be playing in the NEC, and IIRC that move was considered a few years back.

5) SHU over Delaware. This shocked me, but the Chicken fans have covered it, so I won't rehash what they've laid out.

Is the gap closing to some extent? Sort of, perhaps; NEC teams can compete with the bottom half of the CAA, as evidenced this year. Whether that is a one-year anomaly type of thing remains to be seen. But I, and I imagine most others, will not be convinced until NEC teams can beat the top-tier CAA teams.

[TheRevSFA]

Can they play SHSU or are they too busy scheduling D-II teams to lose to?

I imagine CSU pueblo would own the NEC

[KnightoftheRedFlash]

Let the Red Flash win the NEC, play in the FCS playoffs and look out! We almost beat JMU last year.

Seriously, the NEC needs to win marquee OOC games and FCS playoffs games before we deserve a lofty reputation.

[Lehigh'98]

Yep! xnodx

xthumbsupx

For a board that has every other thread hijaked by the Patriot League, here's the reality ... the NEC has more positive news to post then ever before. Sorry if it offends some posters' sensibilities, but if you don't like it, don't read it.

Let's not act like we are whining about everything. We make a compelling argument based on results, and for some of the "establishment" that isn't enough (and it never will be). The up-and-coming conference is going to have that uphill battle earning respect, that ok.

The sore spot for most people here is simple, before 2005 the NEC had few, if any, wins vs. the PL, Ivy, and CAA. Since then we have won with more regularity than anyone from those leagues are comfortable accepting.

Tell us how you really feel about the PL Ace...Don't hold back!! At the minute, not much difference btw the two leagues in my opinion. Fordham most likely best team of the bunch.

[Engineer86]

How soon you forget ...

2005 - CCSU beats Colgate in Hamilton
2009 - CCSU beats Lehigh in Bethlehem
2013 - Lehigh escapes with a 51-44 OT victory in New Britain

So five years ago is your best???

[Lehigh'98]

So five years ago is your best???

Lehigh appears to be 6-2 vs NEC since 2004

2004 - W Albany 44-14 (9-3)
2006 - L Albany 16-17 (6-5)
2009 - L CCSU 21-28 (4-7)
2011 - W Monmouth 49-24 (12-1)
2012 - W Monmouth 27-17, W CCSU 35-14 (10-1)
2013 - W CCSU 51-44 (8-3)