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clenz
July 23rd, 2014, 10:23 AM
I was reading the SLC preseason poll thread and while looking at the predicted order of finished I couldn't help but notice how capitalistic the bottom half of that league is. Most leagues are top (4-6 teams) heavy and most will have 1 or 2 crap teams at the bottom.

However, that thread coupled with the discussion regarding the Big Sky/MVFC playoff bids due to the bottom teams in the Big Sky helping boost records that I've been having with some lead me to wondering this.

Which conference has the worst bottom? The obvious answers would be Pioneer, MEAC, SWAC, so what about between the SLC, MVFC, Big Sky, SoCon, OVC and CAA.

What conference has the worst for the coming season?
Which conference traditionally has the worst bottom?


Teams ordered in order of preseason polls

Big Sky
UC Davis
Portland State
Sacramento State
Idaho State
North Dakota
Weber State
Northern Colorado

CAA
Jame Madison
Stony Brook
UAlbany
Rhode Island
Elon

MVFC (Preseason poll not yet released though these are likely the bottom teams)
Missouri State
South Dakota
Western Illinois
Indiana State

OVC
Murray State
Tennessee Tech
Southeast Missouri
Austin Peay


SLC
Lamar
Abilene Christian
Nicholls
UIW
Houston Baptist


SoCon
Western Carolina
The Citadel
Mercer
VMI

NoDak 4 Ever
July 23rd, 2014, 10:25 AM
The SLC might be at a disadvantage because of the transition teams but I'd give it to the BSC because of volume

clenz
July 23rd, 2014, 10:29 AM
The SLC might be at a disadvantage because of the transition teams but I'd give it to the BSC because of volume
That's kind of where I was at.

I am waiting for a BSC poster to ask why I had so many teams posted from them but not anyone else. The other conferences there is a clear cut between who was voted at the bottom and who isn't. The Big Sky teams I posted are also "traditionally" at the bottom of the Big Sky/GWC.

BEAR
July 23rd, 2014, 10:35 AM
I'd drop ACU from that SLC list. They were a strong d2 team even when we were strong. Unless things have changed. The other transition teams are the reason the conf. is weak at the bottom plus our perennial Nicholls team. Though sometimes these new teams will present new schemes that established teams haven't faced and they get the W for it. I'm sure UCA had that advantage when they first came in the league.

Bisonator
July 23rd, 2014, 10:38 AM
For sheer numbers you'd have to say the BSC. As far as the worst of the worst that's debatable.

walliver
July 23rd, 2014, 10:48 AM
I was reading the SLC preseason poll thread and while looking at the predicted order of finished I couldn't help but notice how capitalistic the bottom half of that league is. Most leagues are top (4-6 teams) heavy and most will have 1 or 2 crap teams at the bottom.

However, that thread coupled with the discussion regarding the Big Sky/MVFC playoff bids due to the bottom teams in the Big Sky helping boost records that I've been having with some lead me to wondering this.

Which conference has the worst bottom? The obvious answers would be Pioneer, MEAC, SWAC, so what about between the SLC, MVFC, Big Sky, SoCon, OVC and CAA.

What conference has the worst for the coming season?
Which conference traditionally has the worst bottom?


Teams ordered in order of preseason polls

...

SoCon
Western Carolina
The Citadel
Mercer
VMI




I would give Mercer a pass as a second year program. Citadel is really more of a middle of the pack team than a bottom-dweller. The SoCon will have bottom issues for a while. Mercer should be up to speed in 3-4 years. It will likely be 2019-2020 before ETSU is competitive (they don't start SoCon play until 2016). VMI is probably just going to be our Wake Forest or Vanderbilt. Western in trying, but hasn't gotten over the hump yet.

You left out the Big South. Their standing was helped somewhat by the departure of VMI, but they still have Presbyterian.

Mattymc727
July 23rd, 2014, 10:56 AM
Thats a pretty good "bottom" from the CAA. Its possible JMU, Stony Brook, or even Albany make a push for the playoffs...Rhode Island and Elon may struggle to get a conference win

clenz
July 23rd, 2014, 11:03 AM
I'd probably have to rank them (worst to best)

Big Sky - sheer number of craptastic teams trumps everything else for me right now. Even if it was just the bottom 4 - Idaho State, UND, UNC, and WSU...that's bad

SLC - likely to due the transitioning schools. That "reason" aside bad is bad.

OVC - Maybe should be "worse" on the list because even the top of the conference isn't really on par with the others

SoCon - really TBD

MVFC - Indiana State is as bad as it gets in non-HBCU scholarship football. The others aren't great but they aren't bad anymore (shouldn't be as bad as they have been...who knows)

CAA - maybe I'm buying into CAA hype...but...their bad teams don't seem to be as "bad"

clenz
July 23rd, 2014, 11:04 AM
I would give Mercer a pass as a second year program. Citadel is really more of a middle of the pack team than a bottom-dweller. The SoCon will have bottom issues for a while. Mercer should be up to speed in 3-4 years. It will likely be 2019-2020 before ETSU is competitive (they don't start SoCon play until 2016). VMI is probably just going to be our Wake Forest or Vanderbilt. Western in trying, but hasn't gotten over the hump yet.

You left out the Big South. Their standing was helped somewhat by the departure of VMI, but they still have Presbyterian.
I put the Big South closer to the MEAC than the others listed.

I have very little "respect" for the Big South, other than CCU. I almost didn't include in the OVC with the others.

The SoCon is up in the air right now, which is why I"m not sure how to rank them right now.

clenz
July 23rd, 2014, 11:05 AM
Thats a pretty good "bottom" from the CAA. Its possible JMU, Stony Brook, or even Albany make a push for the playoffs...Rhode Island and Elon may struggle to get a conference win
My thoughts exactly. I had UD and JMU on my big board watch list of preseason top 25

Ivytalk
July 23rd, 2014, 11:06 AM
Of course, the Ivy League always has Columbia (and occasionally Cornell)....

CrazyCat
July 23rd, 2014, 11:10 AM
Which conference has the worst middle ? Which conference has the worst top? How about the best bottom?

BisonTru
July 23rd, 2014, 11:22 AM
Here's your list with last year's sagarin ratings and the average rating for the bottom teams.







Big Sky
205


UC Davis
177


Portland State
162


Sacramento State
179


Idaho State
229


North Dakota
225


Weber State
228


Northern Colorado
234






CAA
180


Jame Madison
131


Stony Brook
135


UAlbany
219


Rhode Island
206


Elon
211






MVFC
157


Missouri State
111


South Dakota
160


Western Illinois
159


Indiana State
198






OVC
193


Murray State
153


Tennessee Tech
178


Southeast Missouri
200


Austin Peay
239










SLC
203


Lamar
186


Abilene Christian
165


Nicholls
195


UIW
222


Houston Baptist
245










SoCon
214


Western Carolina
218


The Citadel
168


Mercer
238


VMI
232

BEAR
July 23rd, 2014, 11:26 AM
SLC
203


why bad yearly? Lamar
186


transition- strong Abilene Christian
165


yearly bad- Nicholls
195


transition UIW
222


transition Houston Baptist
245

Lehigh'98
July 23rd, 2014, 11:36 AM
I would say MEAC, OVC & Big South. The bottom of Patriot and Ivy with the exception of Columbia and Georgetown (2011 the exception) would beat these schools consistently. CAA and MVFC seem to be the strongest.

Bisonator
July 23rd, 2014, 11:53 AM
Which conference has the worst middle ? Which conference has the worst top? How about the best bottom?

We still talking about football right?:D

CrazyCat
July 23rd, 2014, 12:09 PM
We still talking about football right?:D

Right now, yes. I'm sure that will change and will look just like all the other rating debates.xrotatehx

Rabbit74
July 23rd, 2014, 12:14 PM
I did a little comparison using the Massey Composite Rankings which includes almost all of the various ranking systems. Here is what I came up with as the average ranking for the top, middle and bottom third for each conference based on Dec. 7, 2013 rankings. They are listed from best to worst for the bottom third. Teams are assigned to their 2014 Conference.

Conf. Top Middle Bottom

MVC 8 24 71
Ohio 9 39 84
Col. 9 34 85
Big South 17 54 90
Ivy 26 53 93
SLC 19 69 98
Southern 29 53 100
B. Sky 18 55 104
Pat 32 67 105
MEAC 52 85 105
NEC 57 82 109
SWAC 71 99 120
Pioneer 65 92 124

darell1976
July 23rd, 2014, 12:14 PM
I'm hoping with the removal of Mussman and the hiring of Bubba, we will see a change of where UND lands every year. This year I see us start out at the bottom as the rebuilding takes place but in time we will proceed towards the middle and eventually to the top. (wishful thinking!!). We can't follow in the footsteps of Northern Colorado.

NoDak 4 Ever
July 23rd, 2014, 12:18 PM
I'm hoping with the removal of Mussman and the hiring of Bubba, we will see a change of where UND lands every year. This year I see us start out at the bottom as the rebuilding takes place but in time we will proceed towards the middle and eventually to the top. (wishful thinking!!). We can't follow in the footsteps of Northern Colorado.

Nor should you follow in the footsteps of SIU. They are stuck at the moment.

darell1976
July 23rd, 2014, 12:24 PM
That's kind of where I was at.

I am waiting for a BSC poster to ask why I had so many teams posted from them but not anyone else. The other conferences there is a clear cut between who was voted at the bottom and who isn't. The Big Sky teams I posted are also "traditionally" at the bottom of the Big Sky/GWC.

Traditionally we weren't at the bottom in the GWFC, and this is our 3rd year in the BSC (hell even NDSU was a bottom feeder after their second year in the MVFC) in the 4 years of the GWFC UND finished out of 5 teams 3t, 2t, last, co-champs average borderline 2nd/3rd. In the 2 years of the BSC t8, 10th average 9th so yeah classify us as a bottom feeder after 2 years in the conference. Just don't think we will stay there.

superman7515
July 23rd, 2014, 12:24 PM
I did a little comparison using the Massey Composite Rankings which includes almost all of the various ranking systems. Here is what I came up with as the average ranking for the top, middle and bottom third for each conference based on Dec. 7, 2013 rankings. They are listed from best to worst for the bottom third. Teams are assigned to their 2014 Conference.

Conf. Top Middle Bottom

MVC 8 24 71
Ohio 9 39 84
Col. 9 34 85
Big South 17 54 90
Ivy 26 53 93
SLC 19 69 98
Southern 29 53 100
B. Sky 18 55 104
Pat 32 67 105
MEAC 52 85 105
NEC 57 82 109
SWAC 71 99 120
Pioneer 65 92 124

Top heavy Big Sky, SWAC the worst top to bottom (the PFL bottom is worse, but the top and middle are better), wide disparity in the SLC... looks reasonable.

Bisonator
July 23rd, 2014, 12:25 PM
I'm hoping with the removal of Mussman and the hiring of Bubba, we will see a change of where UND lands every year. This year I see us start out at the bottom as the rebuilding takes place but in time we will proceed towards the middle and eventually to the top. (wishful thinking!!). We can't follow in the footsteps of Northern Colorado.

OK I'm curious why UN_ fans think Bubba will lead them to the promised land? You do realize he wasn't that great as HC of UMD, sure he got them an NCC title with someone elses recruits but the other 3 years were nothing to brag about. SIU's defense was really nothing special the last few years under him as DC either. So why such optimism???

darell1976
July 23rd, 2014, 12:26 PM
Nor should you follow in the footsteps of SIU. They are stuck at the moment.

We will follow the footsteps of our in-state rival.:D

coover
July 23rd, 2014, 12:26 PM
I'm hoping with the removal of Mussman and the hiring of Bubba, we will see a change of where UND lands every year. This year I see us start out at the bottom as the rebuilding takes place but in time we will proceed towards the middle and eventually to the top. (wishful thinking!!). We can't follow in the footsteps of Northern Colorado.I think, Darell, that your new coach will make a difference, and I expect North Dakota to be a better team this year, and, possibly, a playoff team in 3 or 4 years. You've got a terrific area in which to recruit.

I'm still wondering what you guys are calling the former "Sioux"?

darell1976
July 23rd, 2014, 12:31 PM
OK I'm curious why UN_ fans think Bubba will lead them to the promised land? You do realize he wasn't that great as HC of UMD, sure he got them an NCC title with someone elses recruits but the other 3 years were nothing to brag about. SIU's defense was really nothing special the last few years under him as DC either. So why such optimism???

Maybe the same way Bison fans feel their new coach will be as successful as Bohl was. Mussman was picked as HC when UND was in-between AD's. There was no real coaching process to hire a good coach. Plus UND was known as a smashmouth running team with recruiting in the midwest, Mussman was a wide open (remember the Pistol Offense) pass happy offense with recruiting out west. Now Bubba is getting that recruiting back to its roots (midwest heavy) and get that defense up to DI level not pee-wee level. We saw what Bubba did on defense here before leaving for Duluth, and there are some who still question hiring him, but we will see what his skills and work ethic will produce.

darell1976
July 23rd, 2014, 12:33 PM
I think, Darell, that your new coach will make a difference, and I expect North Dakota to be a better team this year, and, possibly, a playoff team in 3 or 4 years. You've got a terrific area in which to recruit.

I'm still wondering what you guys are calling the former "Sioux"?

Still nickname less, so its been North Dakota, UND, Green and White, and still Sioux to the diehards! Next season may/will be a whole new name.

walliver
July 23rd, 2014, 12:44 PM
Which conference has the worst middle ? Which conference has the worst top? How about the best bottom?
Sir Mix-a-lot only cares about the bottom ... he cannot lie.

MR. CHICKEN
July 23rd, 2014, 02:31 PM
I was reading the SLC preseason poll thread and while looking at the predicted order of finished I couldn't help but notice how capitalistic the bottom half of that league is. Most leagues are top (4-6 teams) heavy and most will have 1 or 2 crap teams at the bottom.

However, that thread coupled with the discussion regarding the Big Sky/MVFC playoff bids due to the bottom teams in the Big Sky helping boost records that I've been having with some lead me to wondering this.

Which conference has the worst bottom? The obvious answers would be Pioneer, MEAC, SWAC, so what about between the SLC, MVFC, Big Sky, SoCon, OVC and CAA.

What conference has the worst for the coming season?
Which conference traditionally has the worst bottom?


Teams ordered in order of preseason polls

Big Sky
UC Davis
Portland State
Sacramento State
Idaho State
North Dakota
Weber State
Northern Colorado

CAA
Jame Madison
Stony Brook
UAlbany
Rhode Island
Elon

MVFC (Preseason poll not yet released though these are likely the bottom teams)
Missouri State
South Dakota
Western Illinois
Indiana State

OVC
Murray State
Tennessee Tech
Southeast Missouri
Austin Peay


SLC
Lamar
Abilene Christian
Nicholls
UIW
Houston Baptist


SoCon
Western Carolina
The Citadel
Mercer
VMI




19316.......JMU....IS PROJECTED #22.....IN GAMEDAY TOP 25.............JES' SAYIN'........AWQ!

FCS_pwns_FBS
July 23rd, 2014, 02:54 PM
I'd probably have to rank them (worst to best)

Big Sky - sheer number of craptastic teams trumps everything else for me right now. Even if it was just the bottom 4 - Idaho State, UND, UNC, and WSU...that's bad

SLC - likely to due the transitioning schools. That "reason" aside bad is bad.

OVC - Maybe should be "worse" on the list because even the top of the conference isn't really on par with the others

SoCon - really TBD

MVFC - Indiana State is as bad as it gets in non-HBCU scholarship football. The others aren't great but they aren't bad anymore (shouldn't be as bad as they have been...who knows)

CAA - maybe I'm buying into CAA hype...but...their bad teams don't seem to be as "bad"

The SoCon has the worst cellar.

The SoCon has a former Big South doormat and a team fresh from the PFL that are worse than any of the teams in the Big Sky cellar. And Idaho State is the only team that could probably rival WCU's struggling.

MR. CHICKEN
July 23rd, 2014, 03:29 PM
I was reading the SLC preseason poll thread and while looking at the predicted order of finished I couldn't help but notice how capitalistic the bottom half of that league is. Most leagues are top (4-6 teams) heavy and most will have 1 or 2 crap teams at the bottom.

However, that thread coupled with the discussion regarding the Big Sky/MVFC playoff bids due to the bottom teams in the Big Sky helping boost records that I've been having with some lead me to wondering this.

Which conference has the worst bottom? The obvious answers would be Pioneer, MEAC, SWAC, so what about between the SLC, MVFC, Big Sky, SoCon, OVC and CAA.

What conference has the worst for the coming season?
Which conference traditionally has the worst bottom?


Teams ordered in order of preseason polls

Big Sky
UC Davis
Portland State
Sacramento State
Idaho State
North Dakota
Weber State
Northern Colorado

CAA
Jame Madison
Stony Brook
UAlbany
Rhode Island
Elon

MVFC (Preseason poll not yet released though these are likely the bottom teams)
Missouri State
South Dakota
Western Illinois
Indiana State

OVC
Murray State
Tennessee Tech
Southeast Missouri
Austin Peay


SLC
Lamar
Abilene Christian
Nicholls
UIW
Houston Baptist


SoCon
Western Carolina
The Citadel
Mercer
VMI




19317.....JAMES MADISON......CURRENTLAH RANKED...@...#22....IN FCS GAMEDAY.....TOP 25....................JES' SAYIN'......xtwocentsx....BRAWK!

Daytripper
July 23rd, 2014, 04:04 PM
Sir Mix-a-lot only cares about the bottom ... he cannot lie.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYyd0dvNNXU

clenz
July 24th, 2014, 08:50 AM
Maybe the same way Bison fans feel their new coach will be as successful as Bohl was. Mussman was picked as HC when UND was in-between AD's. There was no real coaching process to hire a good coach. Plus UND was known as a smashmouth running team with recruiting in the midwest, Mussman was a wide open (remember the Pistol Offense) pass happy offense with recruiting out west. Now Bubba is getting that recruiting back to its roots (midwest heavy) and get that defense up to DI level not pee-wee level. We saw what Bubba did on defense here before leaving for Duluth, and there are some who still question hiring him, but we will see what his skills and work ethic will produce.
Are you seriously comparing NDSU fans thinking there won't be much of a drop off after losing Bohl to UND fans thinking they are now a playoff team because they changed coaches for being a doormat team?


Really? I've seen some big stretches to compare things but that might be one of the biggest.

darell1976
July 24th, 2014, 11:29 AM
Are you seriously comparing NDSU fans thinking there won't be much of a drop off after losing Bohl to UND fans thinking they are now a playoff team because they changed coaches for being a doormat team?


Really? I've seen some big stretches to compare things but that might be one of the biggest.

Please point out where I said UND was a playoff team. The question was do I think Bubba will lead us to the promise land, eventually I think he will. Last time we were in a deep hole like this was 1986 when they got rid of Pat Behrns and hired Roger Thomas, Thomas took a 2-9 team to a conference title in 1993, and who was an assistant in 1993 Bubba, with Dale Lennon as DC. Bubba became DC in 1997 and was part of the 2001 NC team. He knows defense, Muss didn't. Bubba can get this team turned around that has a history of winning and beating teams at the next level (2 FCS wins while at DII in the 2000's). So its okay for Bison fans to have a new coach and think they are going to win NC #4 but I can't think UND is going to have better times with our new coach, eventually being good enough for the playoffs.

clenz
July 24th, 2014, 11:42 AM
Please point out where I said UND was a playoff team. The question was do I think Bubba will lead us to the promise land, eventually I think he will. Last time we were in a deep hole like this was 1986 when they got rid of Pat Behrns and hired Roger Thomas, Thomas took a 2-9 team to a conference title in 1993, and who was an assistant in 1993 Bubba, with Dale Lennon as DC. Bubba became DC in 1997 and was part of the 2001 NC team. He knows defense, Muss didn't. Bubba can get this team turned around that has a history of winning and beating teams at the next level (2 FCS wins while at DII in the 2000's). So its okay for Bison fans to have a new coach and think they are going to win NC #4 but I can't think UND is going to have better times with our new coach, eventually being good enough for the playoffs.
NDSU is infinitly closer to title #4 than UND is to a playoff team

darell1976
July 24th, 2014, 11:52 AM
NDSU is infinitly closer to title #4 than UND is to a playoff team

Again, who said UND was a playoff team? If UND goes 6-6 that is a hell of a turnaround in one season.

NoDak 4 Ever
July 24th, 2014, 12:28 PM
NDSU is infinitly closer to title #4 than UND is to a playoff team

Holy **** clenz, did you lose a bet? There's a lot of NDSU love coming from you the last couple days.

clenz
July 24th, 2014, 12:29 PM
Holy **** clenz, did you lose a bet? There's a lot of NDSU love coming from you the last couple days.
I don't know what's gotten into me...

I feel all dirty and gross...

MarkCCU
July 24th, 2014, 12:33 PM
SoCon. With VMI and WCU, aka the Impossible Duo, there's no way in hell that conference is going to regain the sparkle it had in the mind 2000s.

darell1976
July 24th, 2014, 01:40 PM
I don't know what's gotten into me...

I feel all dirty and gross...

As long as IBY wasn't "in" you. ;)

PaladinFan
July 24th, 2014, 02:30 PM
SoCon. With VMI and WCU, aka the Impossible Duo, there's no way in hell that conference is going to regain the sparkle it had in the mind 2000s.

Maybe. I noted this before, but in the mid-2000s the SoCon had three elite programs and a bunch of dreamers. They aren't that far away from that again.

To be fair, I don't think the talent level has really changed. Marshall moving on made space for App State. App and GSU moving on will make space for someone else.

clenz
July 24th, 2014, 02:31 PM
Maybe. I noted this before, but in the mid-2000s the SoCon had three elite programs and a bunch of dreamers. They aren't that far away from that again.

To be fair, I don't think the talent level has really changed. Marshall moving on made space for App State. App and GSU moving on will make space for someone else.
What's your definition of elite?