School enrollment numbers

[CSUBUCDAD]

I posted this at the end of another thread but wanted to get it it's own so you guys who have been screaming about CSU not playing anyone would understand part of the reason our schedule is what it is.

Most of you seem to be under the mistaken assumption that CSU has 10-12,000 students. Far far from that. Last fall, the enrollment of full time students was right at 2500. That is smaller than alot of high schools in this state. So all you fellas who pull for schools with 10-12,000 students or more that have been bad mouthing CSU can now put some perspective on it. Jay Mills is desperatly trying to upgrade the schedule and from what I hear has signed a 4 year deal with Wofford. So remember when you start bad mouthing the schedule, alot of the Div II and III schools are bigger than CSU.

[AppGuy04]

Since when does school size have anything to do with scheduling.

See Wofford, Citadel, Furman, etc

[Millwoch]

It is not the size of the school, it is the conference. Bigsouth has improved, but not near the top of I-AA schools.

[crunifan]

Yeah, size doesn't mean much.

UNI is one of the smaller Gateway schools, with around 12,000. SIU, Illinois State, Missouri State all have over 20,000.

[TigerFan17]

Ummm...Wake Forest?

[Millwoch]

Wofford has 1,200 students and has had a great program in the past 8-10 years. It wasn't that long ago i watched my brothers division II school(Catawba coached by David Bennett) beat CSU in Charleston. Don't get me wrong as CSU is much improved and Drafts is really good.

Who are you wanting to play?

[texcap]

Yeah, size doesn't mean much.

UNI is one of the smaller Gateway schools, with around 12,000. SIU, Illinois State, Missouri State all have over 20,000.

If you were pulling players from the student body it would matter, but with 63 scholarships, it really evens the playing field. Even most walk-on's at the better IAA are recruited walk-on's.

[aggie6thman]

The school size was one of the reasons why we pushed to go Division I. UC Davis is over 30,000 this fall and we were competing against teams who were not even half our size. Of course, it has a lot to do with scholarships and level of play.

[CSUBUCDAD]

Wofford has 1,200 students and has had a great program in the past 8-10 years. It wasn't that long ago i watched my brothers division II school(Catawba coached by David Bennett) beat CSU in Charleston. Don't get me wrong as CSU is much improved and Drafts is really good.

Who are you wanting to play?

And they have been playing football a hell of alot longer than since 1993. CSU just did make the commitment to invest in the program when the hired Jay Mills, before then, the president and board could care less. Hell, they weren't paying Doyd enough to feed his freakin family when he was coaching. It is all relative guys. Can't build a good program overnight, I am just sick of hearing all the crap from guys that pull for schools that have had a program for 30 years and have 20,000 students(much bigger pool to pick from) bad mouthing a program that is doing everything they can to step up.

My understanding is that Mills has inked a 4 year deal with Wofford already. He has mentioned trying to get teams like Georgia Southern, Furman, App St. maybe even an SEC or ACC team but I think a 1A team is still a few years off.

[rokamortis]

And they have been playing football a hell of alot longer than since 1993. CSU just did make the commitment to invest in the program when the hired Jay Mills, before then, the president and board could care less. Hell, they weren't paying Dodds enough to feed his freakin family when he was coaching. It is all relative guys. Can't build a good program overnight, I am just sick of hearing all the crap from guys that pull for schools that have had a program for 30 years and have 20,000 students(much bigger pool to pick from) bad mouthing a program that is doing everything they can to step up.

My understanding is that Mills has inked a 4 year deal with Wofford already. He has mentioned trying to get teams like Georgia Southern, Furman, App St. maybe even an SEC or ACC team but I think a 1A team is still a few years off.

I see your point - but look at Coastal. This is our 4th year. Check out Southeastern Louisiana as well - they re-started their program the same year Coastal started. CSU has had plenty of time to upgrade their schedule.

[douglasdmb]

Who is CSU?

[BearsCountry]

Who is CSU?

Charleston Southern

[crunifan]

The school size was one of the reasons why we pushed to go Division I. UC Davis is over 30,000 this fall and we were competing against teams who were not even half our size. Of course, it has a lot to do with scholarships and level of play.

WOW! I had no idea UC Davis was that big. That is bigger than Iowa and Iowa State!

[catbob]

It always surprises me to see how big some of these I-AA schools are that can't even draw 1/3 of their enrollment to home games. Sac State is pretty big, yes? They can't even get 8000 fans to their games, in a huge city and a big enrollment.

[CSU BUCS]

All size has to do with is funding. CSU has close to 3,000 students now but had just around 1500 in 1999. That’s a small alumni base with the school being just 40 years old. Alumni giving effects staff salaries (the more you pay the better coaches you can hire and retain), Facilities (easier to recruit good athletes), recruiting budget, and scholarship limits. As of the 2004 season we have the full 63 scholarships but we still have a long ways to go in other areas.

[CSU BUCS]

It always surprises me to see how big some of these I-AA schools are that can't even draw 1/3 of their enrollment to home games. Sac State is pretty big, yes? They can't even get 8000 fans to their games, in a huge city and a big enrollment.


It makes no sense. The University of South Carolina and Clemson University each have student enrollments of 14k and pack the stadiums with 85,000 for each home game.

South Carolina is a football state though. Most of those 85,000 never stepped foot in a classroom on the university. Upstate South Carolina high school games receive better attendance than most 1-AA games, but then again there is not much to do up there on a Friday night.

[CSUBUCDAD]

I see your point - but look at Coastal. This is our 4th year. Check out Southeastern Louisiana as well - they re-started their program the same year Coastal started. CSU has had plenty of time to upgrade their schedule.
As I said the board and Pres did not make that commitment until Mills came to town. that was 3 years ago. Bennett was also an established coach here in the south and you guys went and got the right guy right from the get go. We are in years 4 of the building process, give it time, we will be a big time 1AA program in less than 5 years(If we can keep Mills).

[CSU BUCS]

As I said the board and Pres did not make that commitment until Mills came to town. that was 3 years ago. Bennett was also an established coach here in the south and you guys went and got the right guy right from the get go. We are in years 4 of the building process, give it time, we will be a big time 1AA program in less than 5 years(If we can keep Mills).
Coastal did things the right way by not just deciding to have football but committing to it from the beginning.
CSU on the other hand woke up one morning 15 years ago and said hey lets slap together a football program. Let’s don’t commit to it, don’t fund it let’s just let it ride and see how it goes. 12 years latter they decide to actually have a football program. Before that it might as well been a club team. An assistant coach at CSU a few years ago made around 15,000 a year. How in the hell are you supposed to live off of 15k per year in Charleston?

[kirkblitz]

are you complaing cause csu cant compete? If you feel so strongly about it you should take the issue to the administration or maybe start a donor campaign among the alumni and city citizens.

[CSU BUCS]

are you complaing cause csu cant compete? If you feel so strongly about it you should take the issue to the administration or maybe start a donor campaign among the alumni and city citizens.
No not at all, it has changed now the entire athletic budget for the whole department was $1 million in 1993. The football budget alone is around $1.6 million today. The football budget has increased by 120% in the last 5 years.
Fund raising is currently going on to improve facilities. I was just complaining about how it was and how the lack of commitment used to be and I think bucdad is right on in saying once the commitment is made results don’t happen overnight.

[rokamortis]

You guys are blurring the topics. You can't have major success overnight- I agree 100%. But your schedule strength is not the same thing.

You could have scheduled a tougher schedule before now. This is Mills' first senior class, so you have had plenty of time to schedule stronger competition.

[kirkblitz]

No not at all, it has changed now the entire athletic budget for the whole department was $1 million in 1993. The football budget alone is around $1.6 million today. The football budget has increased by 120% in the last 5 years.
Fund raising is currently going on to improve facilities. I was just complaining about how it was and how the lack of commitment used to be and I think bucdad is right on in saying once the commitment is made results don’t happen overnight.

damn 120% that is commitment :D

on the strength of schedule thing, i think csu could have improved it yes. But maybe they felt as if they couldnt win those games so they didnt play them?

[CSU BUCS]

You guys are blurring the topics. You can't have major success overnight- I agree 100%. But your schedule strength is not the same thing.

You could have scheduled a tougher schedule before now. This is Mills' first senior class, so you have had plenty of time to schedule stronger competition.
We was loosing to these teams before. It's best to taste winning no matter who it is against when building a program. Throwing them to the fire like The Citadel has done is no way to build a program. Develop a winning habit build confidence then up the schedule, CCU did the same thing. Schedule contracts are also signed sometimes years in advance. As I’ve said numerous times on here the plan at CSU is to play one 1-A game per year one D-2 per year with the D-2 being North Greenville due to the two schools ties to the South Carolina Baptist Association, and the rest of the OOC schedule being made up of SOCON and A-10 schools.

Also you guys are misinterpreting our post about CSU. We are not bragging that we are a power house or that we have accomplished any thing compared to App State or Furman or who ever. In relative terms we are excited about doing something that has never been done here before.

[rokamortis]

We was loosing to these teams before. It's best to taste winning no matter who it is against when building a program. Throwing them to the fire like The Citadel has done is no way to build a program. Develop a winning habit build confidence then up the schedule, CCU did the same thing. Schedule contracts are also signed sometimes years in advance. As I’ve said numerous times on here the plan at CSU is to play one 1-A game per year one D-2 per year with the D-2 being North Greenville due to the two schools ties to the South Carolina Baptist Association, and the rest of the OOC schedule being made up of SOCON and A-10 schools.

Also you guys are misinterpreting our post about CSU. We are not bragging that we are a power house or that we have accomplished any thing compared to App State or Furman or who ever. In relative terms we are excited about doing something that has never been done here before.

I don't disagree that you might want to schedule weak competition to help build your program - but you should also not take offense to others not respecting your scheduling choices as the original poster was stating in the first post of this topic.

[CSU BUCS]

BTW one D-1 opponent back out on us leaving us to schedule Edwards freaken Watters at the last minute. To fill the schedule.

[CSU BUCS]

I don't disagree that you might want to schedule weak competition to help build your program - but you should also not take offense to others not respecting your scheduling choices as the original poster was stating in the first post of this topic.
I’m glad we are in a position to be criticized. Rather than being labeled the worst team in 1-AA

[Hammerhead]

Portland State has more students than Oregon and Oregon State, yet they draw far fewer fans, even though the other schools are 2 hrs. and 1 hrs. down the freeway from Portland.

[poly51]

Enrollment of Cal Poly and this years California opponents
Sacramento State 28,000
UC Davis 30,000
San Diego State 33,000
San Jose State 30,000
Cal Poly 18,500

[EKU05]

The school size was one of the reasons why we pushed to go Division I. UC Davis is over 30,000 this fall and we were competing against teams who were not even half our size. Of course, it has a lot to do with scholarships and level of play.

You're still going to be doing that. For example, EKU is the only OVC school that is over half the size of UCD (at a little over 16,000). Over 30K is huge.

[GoAgs!]

It always surprises me to see how big some of these I-AA schools are that can't even draw 1/3 of their enrollment to home games. Sac State is pretty big, yes? They can't even get 8000 fans to their games, in a huge city and a big enrollment.

Our current stadium only sits 7,800. Of the7,600 last week, we had 3,200 students attended last weeks game. That is capacity in terms of the number of student seats. It's a matter of supply and demand.

Next year in the new stadium, expect crowds of well over 10,000 and student crowds in the numbers of around 4,500...all standing...all cheering...all wearing blue....watch out for the Aggie Pack.

Now across the Causeway in Sacramento...that is a whole different story.

[GrizzlyEdd]

I am not sure on this but I think that the U of Montana and Montana State U are the smallest schools in the BSC. They both range around 14,000 students.

Guess that says something but be damned if I know what it is....:rolleyes:

[ucdtim17]

Our current stadium only sits 7,800. Of the7,600 last week, we had 3,200 students attended last weeks game. That is capacity in terms of the number of student seats. It's a matter of supply and demand.

Next year in the new stadium, expect crowds of well over 10,000 and student crowds in the numbers of around 4,500...all standing...all cheering...all wearing blue....watch out for the Aggie Pack.

Now across the Causeway in Sacramento...that is a whole different story.

It's not supply and demand - it's just a giant lack of supply, which contrary to classical economic theory, lessens demand because people don't want to watch college football in a high school stadium. Everything changes next year in a somewhat more appropriate facility and with games that count

[lucchesicourt]

Toomey Field, UCD's high school stadium, used to get around 10,000 at times when we were D2, had 18,000 students, fighting for the NC, and before the fire marshal decreased the number of people allowed into the stadium. With a new facility next year, again being in the hunt for an NC, over 30,000 students, and no fire marshal laws restricting attendance, I see attendance figures unlike anything we have seen before.

[CSU BUCS]

Seriously, with students of 20-30k, why aren’t these schools 1-A?

[OL FU]

School enrollment (and more importantly alumni base) makes a big difference (IMO) from the standpoint of deciding to fund football. I know we all point to Furman and Wofford and others as success stories but the truth is that most successful programs have larger student bodies. However, once a school determines it can and will fund the program correctly, enrollment does not have much of an impact on success. :twocents:

[poly51]

School enrollment (and more importantly alumni base) makes a big difference (IMO) from the standpoint of deciding to fund football. I know we all point to Furman and Wofford and others as success stories but the truth is that most successful programs have larger student bodies. However, once a school determines it can and will fund the program correctly, enrollment does not have much of an impact on success. :twocents:

In California enrollment numbersdon't seem to help. These are the schools that have dropped football:
UC Santa Barbara 20000
Cal State Northridge 33000
Cal State Fullerton 35000
Cal State Long Beach 34500
Cal State Los Angeles 20000
Cal Poly-Pomona 20000

[CSU BUCS]

In California enrollment numbersdon't seem to help. These are the schools that have dropped football:
UC Santa Barbara 20000
Cal State Northridge 33000
Cal State Fullerton 35000
Cal State Long Beach 34500
Cal State Los Angeles 20000
Cal Poly-Pomona 20000
Amazing, people must just not care about football in Cali.

[Spooney-Cat]

Southland Conference Enrollment Figures - (I don't know that these are the Fall 2006 enrollment numbers, but they are not too far off of these numbers currently..)

Lamar 9,000 (no FB program)
SFA 11,408
McNeese 8,784
Texas State 27,571
Sam Houston 16,000
Nicholls State 7,500
Southeastern Louisiana 16,000
Northwestern State 10,200
UTA - 25,300 (no FB program)
UTSA - 28,000 (no FB program)

[ucdtim17]

Amazing, people must just not care about football in Cali.

Some of it is that, some of it is Title IX, some of it is that football programs have been the first to go in tight budget times, some of it is that many of these schools are commuter schools that always struggled with attendance and some of it is that once a few dropped, it made it harder for other schools to continue, thus making it easier to drop. FWIW

[poly51]

Some of it is that, some of it is Title IX, some of it is that football programs have been the first to go in tight budget times, some of it is that many of these schools are commuter schools that always struggled with attendance and some of it is that once a few dropped, it made it harder for other schools to continue, thus making it easier to drop. FWIW

I think a lot is also media hype for the "big" programs. USC, UCLA, Cal, Stanford. San Diego State and Fresno State do ok also. San Jose State, Sac State, Cal Poly, UC Davis, U San Diego and the Division IIs and III struggle with attendance.

[Purple Pride]

Southland Conference Enrollment Figures - (I don't know that these are the Fall 2006 enrollment numbers, but they are not too far off of these numbers currently..)

Lamar 9,000 (no FB program)
SFA 11,408
McNeese 8,784
Texas State 27,571
Sam Houston 16,000
Nicholls State 7,500
Southeastern Louisiana 16,000
Northwestern State 10,200
UTA - 25,300 (no FB program)
UTSA - 28,000 (no FB program)
Throw us in that pot.

UCA - 12,348

http://www.uca.edu/research/media/documents/BearFacts/BearFacts_Fall_2006.pdf

[JoshUCA]

Southland Conference Enrollment Figures - (I don't know that these are the Fall 2006 enrollment numbers, but they are not too far off of these numbers currently..)

Lamar 9,000 (no FB program)
SFA 11,408
McNeese 8,784
Texas State 27,571
Sam Houston 16,000
Nicholls State 7,500
Southeastern Louisiana 16,000
Northwestern State 10,200
UTA - 25,300 (no FB program)
UTSA - 28,000 (no FB program)

*Soon to be full SLC UCA's enrollment is 12,348.

[JoshUCA]

Throw us in that pot.

UCA - 12,348

http://www.uca.edu/research/media/documents/BearFacts/BearFacts_Fall_2006.pdf
Looks like you just beat me to it!!

[OL FU]

In California enrollment numbersdon't seem to help. These are the schools that have dropped football:
UC Santa Barbara 20000
Cal State Northridge 33000
Cal State Fullerton 35000
Cal State Long Beach 34500
Cal State Los Angeles 20000
Cal Poly-Pomona 20000

Bad Management:D

[OL FU]

In California enrollment numbersdon't seem to help. These are the schools that have dropped football:
UC Santa Barbara 20000
Cal State Northridge 33000
Cal State Fullerton 35000
Cal State Long Beach 34500
Cal State Los Angeles 20000
Cal Poly-Pomona 20000

The point is still the same but it size is not the only factor. Type of school, other sports around the school they all have an impact so you can't take size by itself. But if you isolate it, a school that graduates 10,000 people a year should have an easier time making the committment than one that graduates 200.

[lucchesicourt]

Another factor is the size of the local population. When I attended UCD there were more students than residents in Davis. Sure, Sac is not too far away, but hey we're talking about Sacramento and you can see how well they support their Hornets. Also, UCD was non schollie until recently regardless of what you hear from Sac State fans. UCD gave schollies the same way USD does now. Schollies were all based on need and academic success, not athletic talent. This amounted to 5-7 full schollies over 100+ athletes. The number of students attending a school is irrelevant for funding the schollies. UCD's schollies were voted to be funded by student fees and not the UC system.

[ucdavisaggie05]

I think a lot is also media hype for the "big" programs. USC, UCLA, Cal, Stanford. San Diego State and Fresno State do ok also. San Jose State, Sac State, Cal Poly, UC Davis, U San Diego and the Division IIs and III struggle with attendance.
Hey, Stanfurd struggles with attendance as well! It's so nice to see their brand spanking new stadium, built in 9 1/2 months with a $90M donation, sit there mostly empty on Saturdays. xlolx

[poly51]

Hey, Stanfurd struggles with attendance as well! It's so nice to see their brand spanking new stadium, built in 9 1/2 months with a $90M donation, sit there mostly empty on Saturdays. xlolx
I guess that doesn't matter when you have all the money in the world.

[CSU BUCS]

I want to back track on some of the complaining I did about the past. At least our administration stuck behind football and didn’t drop it like so many other programs have. I’m sure there was other needs to the university that needed to be addressed before football.

Dr. Jerry Hunter (President), and Rick Brewer (Dean of something that’s over athletics) are both great men who have done great things for the university and have stood behind football amongst a lot of adversity in which a lot of people would have given up on the dream of a small private Baptist college supporting Div-1 football. Their perseverance has paid off with funding and positive recognition now.

I was to harsh before without thinking of the reality of the situation.

[LarryBoy]

As many people have stated already, you can't directly correlate student body size and athletic success. It's just not that black and white. But typically, it is a heck of a lot more difficult for a smaller school to get off the ground, especially in D-I. I'm proud to be a student at one of the exceptions, but things weren't always so happy in Greenville...

In the early '70s, the student body representatives went to the administration with the request that the football program be done away with. It was underfunded, losing was rampant, and no one really cared.

I'm not sure what turns these things around. I don't always think you can attribute more money and improved facilities to success. In Furman's case, I think we can owe it simply a string of surprisingly good players (David Whitehurst and company) that were good enough to at least put a winning season together.

Fast foward a couple of years to 1978--Furman wins its first SoCon title and starts a string of embarrassing I-A's (NC State and GA Tech multiple times, South Carolina...can't think of any more at the moment) that improves exposure for recruiting. The tiny, then-Baptist, "play for fun" Paladins were on their way to becoming one of the best programs in all of I-AA. Our success still doesn't make a lot of sense to me today--Furman is not an easy school to get in to or get through, folks, and a "beautiful campus" isn't exactly what top recruits are looking for--but hey, I'll take it.

You never know; one day CSU people could look back and chuckle at their humble beginnings. But I would hope that they follow through in greatly upgrading their schedule. As great as starting a "winning tradition" may sound, reality may hurt badly. Better face it sooner rather than later. Coastal hit reality last year against App--that experience, I believe, is part of what helped them knock off Furman a few weeks ago.

Okay. Done rambling.

[appsfan]

With the big game of #1 Appalachian State versus #8 Furman kicking off tomorrow, here are the enrollment figures for the schools:
ASU - 14,800
Furman - 2630.