San Diego IS a playoff team

[AndyK2005]

Make a spot for them. Quit trying to deny it.

Sometimes there are teams that havnt played a strong schedule who are unbeaten but really arent very good.

What people dont realize is that sometimes there are teams who really are good, they just havnt been able to prove it.

If there really isnt a spot for this team in the playoffs, you need to expand the playoffs in the future ASAP because this is a playoff caliber team. I truly hope they get their shot

[Ronbo]

Don't they play Davis? If they beat Davis I would say they deserve consideration.

[Tod]

Don't they play Davis? If they beat Davis I would say they deserve consideration.

I believe it will be too late by then. They are scheduled to play Davis the first weekend of the playoffs.

However, they have made arrangments to defer that game if they make the playoffs.

No way to play Davis and go to the playoffs.

[aggie6thman]

We don't know if that game will happen. The game is scheduled for 11/25, the first week of playoffs. There has been talk that it might be postponed or put off all together because USD might go to the playoffs. IMO, if they want to go to the playoffs, they need to schedule playoff worthy teams. They must prove themselves against the big boys before the start to think about playing in December. In no way am I saying that UCD is a "big boy," but you get the point.

[AndyK2005]

I agree their schedule is a big problem, yet I would like to see this team in the playoffs much more than some 8-3 wild card team from a "power" conference.

how many teams make the playoffs?

this isnt like the NHL where even BAD teams get in. San Diego is a legitimate team. They are interesting. That is why there is so much talk, people dont know exactly where they fit in. It would be nice to see.

I just hate to see a playoff caliber team ( they are) get left out for a lack of space, my point being in some sports mediocre teams make it in, even NCAA hoops 1-a this is true, but San Diego isnt mediocre. They are very good. Its just a tough situation. If you put them in, it creates arguments. Valid ones. But they dont deserve to be left out either

[dbackjon]

NO - San Diego, with their pathetic schedule, does NOT deserve to be in the playoffs. Play one than one good team, then get back to us.

[umassfan]

Why dont we just let Davidson in the playoffs too while we are at it.

[Mountaineer]

Thing is - that we've heard about "playoff caliber" teams *coughHamptoncough* that run the table in weak conferences then proceed to get it handed to 'em against real competition.

I'd much rather see an 8-3 team that played a good schedule than an undefeated team that waltzed in playing cupcakes.

[AndyK2005]

I think you know San Diego would whack Davidson

[AndyK2005]

plenty of 8-3 teams lose in the first round. half of the playoff teams lose in the first round. you cant look at Hampton 1 year, 1 game and make blanket judgements

[Mountaineer]

But the 8-3 team that loses in the first round, imo, at least deserved to be there because of the schedule they played.

[umassfan]

I think you know San Diego would whack Davidson

They already did. I was being sarcastic because we heard this song and dance before from Davidson people

[AndyK2005]

just a randon thought, isnt Yale 5-1 now?

and didnt San Diego just CRUSH them on the road?

you can make arguments for Younstown St or somebody like that ( no offense, just an example) but I am just saying San Diego does have an argument too.

sometimes small name teams are better than you think......

[BobbyMo]

sometimes small name teams are better than you think......

I am not a fan of SD, but UNI and SD were fairly close against Drake (a good non-schol team) so i agree with the quote. I know their SOS is not good, but none of their games have been close at all, they are good.

I think if they run it, and continue to dominate they should get a shot.

Just my :twocents:

[gobucknell06]

Umm..what song and dance are you referring to with regards to Davidson??

USD already beat Davidson 50-21. USD just beat Drake 37-0. UNI 48-7.

I think USD can play with UNI. I favor UNI because of USD's lack of depth in ST. Otherwise, close game.

[AndyK2005]

yes, not really much more to add from me.

they are good, if they got in, they would be an underdog to win a playoff game, as would whoever gets the last spot or two, so no shock if they didnt. It would be interesting to see what happens.

[BobbyMo]

USD already beat Davidson 50-21. USD just beat Drake 37-0. UNI 48-7.

I think USD can play with UNI. I favor UNI because of USD's lack of depth in ST. Otherwise, close game.


I am with you, i do not think they would win their playoff game, but i think they should get shot.

As for the 8-3 vs. a unbeaten SD, I would go w/ SD. If they play the Griz or whoever and get smoked, so be it, but i think they should get the chance.

Then again, i am NEC fan, and if we cant get in, I would like to see a PFL get in. :hurray: :hurray: :hurray:

[umassfan]

Umm..what song and dance are you referring to with regards to Davidson??

USD already beat Davidson 50-21. USD just beat Drake 37-0. UNI 48-7.

I think USD can play with UNI. I favor UNI because of USD's lack of depth in ST. Otherwise, close game.
When Davidson was cruising through seasons in the past and not getting into the playoffs.

[GoAgs72]

UC Davis would be undefeated if we played Humboldt State, Western Oregon and San Diego. My son says get your head out of your posterior and see the light.

[Ronbo]

just a randon thought, isnt Yale 5-1 now?

and didnt San Diego just CRUSH them on the road?

you can make arguments for Younstown St or somebody like that ( no offense, just an example) but I am just saying San Diego does have an argument too.

sometimes small name teams are better than you think......

Andy San Diego needs to get into the Great West and win it and you're in. I think it's a pipe dream in the Conference you're in now.

[BobbyMo]

I think it's a pipe dream in the Conference you're in now.

Unfortunatly, you are probably right. :nod:

[YoUDeeMan]

Make a spot for them. Quit trying to deny it.

Sometimes there are teams that havnt played a strong schedule who are unbeaten but really arent very good.

What people dont realize is that sometimes there are teams who really are good, they just havnt been able to prove it.

If there really isnt a spot for this team in the playoffs, you need to expand the playoffs in the future ASAP because this is a playoff caliber team. I truly hope they get their shot

AndyK2005 - How come I haven't seen a single USD fan trumpeting a I-AA championship game between SDU and Charleston Southern?

What? You don't respect another 7-0 I-AA team? Have you posted a single thread that CSU is worthy of a playoff spot? If not (I haven't seen one), then why not? Is it because you do not know anything about CSU? Well, if you don't anything about CSU, then what do you know about the rest of I-AA that you somehow deem SDU playoff worthy?

The fact is...you don't know squat. But, here's what we do know: until USD makes the playoffs, they are, in fact, not a playoff team.

Quit trying to deny it. :bawling:

As you said, there are a more than a few teams each year that haven't played a strong schedule (schedules MUCH stronger than USD's) and think they are a playoff team. Then, given the chance, they prove that they aren't a playoff team. See: Hampton and the OVC. They come to the party and get dismissed.

But, magically, in your opinion, those teams are different than SDU. Poof! Those other teams and their homers did not know what they were talking about.

Pardon me while I recover from my giggles.

Cry about your wanna' be status, but SDU hasn't proven a thing. Oh, my mistake: they have proven they didn't give themselves a tough schedule. That is a fact.

It is easy to win against crappy teams week after week. Or, more accurately, weak after weak. Enjoy them; those garbage victories shouldn't frustrate you as much as they do. xlolx

[Coastal89]

I-AA championship game between SDU and Charleston Southern?


We could call it The Paper Tiger Bowl.

[BobbyMo]

AndyK2005 Cry about your wanna' be status, but SDU hasn't proven a thing. xlolx


As i mentioned before in this thred, the stats compare between SD and UNI against the same Drake team.

Does that not mean anything to you?

i was in the same boat as most people until tonight.

Again, SOS = Bad, but they have beat them all with ease.

They cant change their games now and add games against better schools this year, but with the Drake and Yale poundings, i think at the very least they are on the bubble if they run it.:thumbsup:

[BobbyMo]

great pic Coastal89


FANtastic

[OrneryAggie]

Poly has to win 2 of 3 against San Diego St, Montana, and NDSU (and savannah st) just to get 7 DI wins. Portland St will also likely be a 7-4 team. Montana and MSU are probably locks as is the SLC champ. Who else from the West is deserving of a spot?

Fact is Poly and PSU, while probably both tougher teams than USD, scheduled themselves out of the playoffs by playing multiple IA schools. As rediculous as USD's schedule is, the parity in IAA this season is going to make USD's undefeated record look better.

[Tailbone]

25 people standing in line at the grocery store, they've been standing there for hours. You don't think you should have to wait, you want "cuts".

Every week you buy a lottery ticket, the week you don't...your numbers come up....now you want the winnings you might have had if only you had purchased the ticket.

You think you're special? Everybody else pays their dues, why not you?

I don't care if USD is the best football team in the country, you haven't paid your dues (schedule) and you have no right to a berth earned by those who have.

Crybabies.

[Coastal89]

As i mentioned before in this thred, the stats compare between SD and UNI against the same Drake team.

Does that not mean anything to you?

i was in the same boat as most people until tonight.

Again, SOS = Bad, but they have beat them all with ease.

They cant change their games now and add games against better schools this year, but with the Drake and Yale poundings, i think at the very least they are on the bubble if they run it.:thumbsup:
Thanks.

Bobby, as I posted in another thread, UNI played Drake in the first game of the season. Drake is an in-state opponent for UNI so the kids likely know each other from HS. Also, UNI didn't have access to 6 games worth of film on this years Drake team like USD.

A good question for you to ponder is, how did USD do in it's first game this year? Answer 27-0 against Azuza Pacific. What level are they, NAIA?

[BobbyMo]

I don't care if SDSU is the best football team in the country, you haven't paid your dues (schedule) and you have no right to a berth earned by those who have.

Crybabies.

think you are in the wrong thred, San Diego State is 1A, and I have not seen any Jack Rabbits in here :smiley_wi

[*****]

Nice win USD but you are not a playoff team until selected. Also you can't compare your win over Drake to UNI's, UNI called off the dogs in the third quarter and your starters played the whole game.

[Tailbone]

think you are in the wrong thred, San Diego State is 1A, and I have not seen any Jack Rabbits in here :smiley_wi

yeah, brain fart.
but the point stands.

[YoUDeeMan]

As i mentioned before in this thred, the stats compare between SD and UNI against the same Drake team.

Does that not mean anything to you?



No, it doesn't mean anything to me. Nada. Zilch.

Not meant to be a put down, but your knowledge of football (or any athletic contests) must be limited to draw conclusions from the stats from games against a similar team.

Compare multiple scores/stats between most teams and you will find that they do not often "make sense". Often, you will find that a particular team does well/poorly against another team due to match up issues/injuries/"tweener" games (a non-conference game in between conference teams or rivals), etc.

USD might as well be CSU.

[BobbyMo]

Thanks.

Bobby, as I posted in another thread, UNI played Drake in the first game of the season. Drake is an in-state opponent for UNI so the kids likely know each other from HS. Also, UNI didn't have access to 6 games worth of film on this years Drake team like USD.

A good question for you to ponder is, how did USD do in it's first game this year? Answer 27-0 against Azuza Pacific. What level are they, NAIA?

I did not see your other thread. I can understand your point, I understand the value of game tapes (as i watch hours of them every week), localities ect... and like i said before am not a fan of SD, but just think they should they should get a shot. I think they are better than a lot posters on here think (at least the vocal ones about SD). And I know their SOS is bad, but it is what is. I do however, think if they make it in, they can give a game to whoever they play. You may disagree, and that is fine, again just my :twocents:

[BobbyMo]

No, it doesn't mean anything to me. Nada. Zilch.

Not meant to be a put down, but your knowledge of football (or any athletic contests) must be limited to draw conclusions from the stats from games against a similar team. .


I do not claim to be expert, but i doubt that your know more if even close to what i do (not to be a put down.. by your logic if i put this in it is not a put down xidiotx xidiotx xidiotx )

Knownledge, what is your knowledge of SD based on???? have you seen them play??? how many games???

[PantherMan]

As i mentioned before in this thred, the stats compare between SD and UNI against the same Drake team.

Does that not mean anything to you?

i was in the same boat as most people until tonight.

Again, SOS = Bad, but they have beat them all with ease.

They cant change their games now and add games against better schools this year, but with the Drake and Yale poundings, i think at the very least they are on the bubble if they run it.:thumbsup:

Ummm...comparing how team A and team B play against team C is about as useful as asking San Diego to schedule a decent regular season game... UNI played Drake to open the season; San Diego played them 2 months later. This comparison is not apples to apples. I mean, New Hampshire beat Northwestern, who almost beat MSU who almost beat Notre Dame who beat Penn State who barely lost to Michigan. With your type of thinking, and others on this board's; New Hampshire hangs close with Michigan?!?:eyebrow:

[BobbyMo]

[QUOTE=PantherMan]Ummm...comparing how team A and team B play against team C is about as useful as asking San Diego to schedule a decent regular season game... UNI played Drake to open the season; San Diego played them 2 months later. This comparison is not apples to apples. I mean, New Hampshire beat Northwestern, who almost beat MSU who almost beat Notre Dame who beat Penn State who barely lost to Michigan. With your type of thinking, and others on this board's; New Hampshire hangs close with Michigan?!?:eyebrow:[/QUOTE

i find it ironic, people use that arguement here constantly, but when it is for a team that does not have history, it is not worth anything. xidiotx xidiotx xidiotx

I think they can play with UNI, and i gave a comparison.... Do you think UNI would roll over them??? If so, please explain to me why they would

[crunifan]

I would completely welcome San Diego into the playoffs.

And I would completely enjoy watching the team that plays them kick the living s**t out of them all four quarters without taking their starters our like their classless team. And then I would enjoy watching the San Diego fans sit in awe, finally silenced, as their team faces a real challenge.


I am so utterly fed up with people not only overly hyping what is a good non-scholarship team. Destroying its reputation. And then making bogus claims that is could actually compete with with the top 10 scholarship teams.

[GOTOREROS]

Nice win USD but you are not a playoff team until selected. Also you can't compare your win over Drake to UNI's, UNI called off the dogs in the third quarter and your starters played the whole game.

Ralph-

You have a point but I would also say USD played in worse weather against Drake than UNI did - so to say UNI would have beaten Drake tonight 48-7 is a stretch as well. Who knows what would have happened? What I think we can agree on is that there isn't a transitive way to really compare teams like that. I tried to show that in another thread by calling out a UNI fan who started to make the argument at halftime about the score.

USD will not get a bid, may be the last team left out if we run the table but I agree that the more likely scenario is the GIC and that is cool by me - it would be a blast to play in that game...

GOTOREROS

[PantherMan]

[QUOTE=PantherMan]Ummm...comparing how team A and team B play against team C is about as useful as asking San Diego to schedule a decent regular season game... UNI played Drake to open the season; San Diego played them 2 months later. This comparison is not apples to apples. I mean, New Hampshire beat Northwestern, who almost beat MSU who almost beat Notre Dame who beat Penn State who barely lost to Michigan. With your type of thinking, and others on this board's; New Hampshire hangs close with Michigan?!?:eyebrow:[/QUOTE

i find it ironic, people use that arguement here constantly, but when it is for a team that does not have history, it is not worth anything. xidiotx xidiotx xidiotx

I think they can play with UNI, and i gave a comparison.... Do you think UNI would roll over them??? If so, please explain to me why they would

UNI would handily defeat San Diego. I base this on the fact that UNI actually plays competitive games. In fact, I have made no comparison between UNI and SDU to this point because I could care less about the Toros or whatever they are; I only responded because of your asanine assumption that somehow SDU is as good as UNI based on their mutual opponent in Drake. I'd love to see SDU go into Ohio and play a Youngstown State during its homecoming and come out with a W. Or play an SIU or ISU or WIU or WKU and come out with a W. Not gonna happen 99 out of 100 times. When San Diego either starts scheduling like a Cal Poly or NDSU or joins an autobid conference, then we can have a playoff discussion. For now, San Diego better just hope UCD doesn't run them off the field come November...:nod:

[YoUDeeMan]

I agree their schedule is a big problem, yet I would like to see this team in the playoffs much more than some 8-3 wild card team from a "power" conference.
how many teams make the playoffs?

this isnt like the NHL where even BAD teams get in. San Diego is a legitimate team. They are interesting. That is why there is so much talk, people dont know exactly where they fit in. It would be nice to see.

I just hate to see a playoff caliber team ( they are) get left out for a lack of space, my point being in some sports mediocre teams make it in, even NCAA hoops 1-a this is true, but San Diego isnt mediocre. They are very good. Its just a tough situation. If you put them in, it creates arguments. Valid ones. But they dont deserve to be left out either

By the way, welcome to the board AndyK2005.

1) If you have to ask how many teams make the playoffs, then you have no credibility to tell people that USD is a playoff team. None.

2) If you would like to see USD in the playoffs versus some 8-3 "wild card" team from a "power" conference, then you have no idea of how powerful those "wild card" teams can be. WKU won the 2002 championship as an 8-3 at large team. Do a little research before you post such an off base comment.

3) "They are interesting"? You don't find DSU interesting? How about WIU? How about UD (Delaware)? All interesting teams, if you would care to actually get to know a team outside SDU. But, shall we invite all "interesting" teams to the playoffs? How about Salesianum - they're 7-0 also? They happen to play high school..but they are "interesting".

4) It would be nice to see where SDU fits in. If SDU chooses to play a tougher schedule they can see where they "fit in" 4-5 times each year if they really want to. However, it would not be "nice" to exclude another team from the playoffs - one that has earned the right to play - just so SDU fans can find out if they can "fit in".

[BobbyMo]

:rotateh: xlolx :nod:
[QUOTE=BobbyMo]

UNI would handily defeat San Diego. I base this on the fact that UNI actually plays competitive games. In fact, I have made no comparison between UNI and SDU to this point because I could care less about the Toros or whatever they are

WOW WOW WOW xsmileyclapx xsmileyclapx xsmileyclapx

Read your first 2 sentences.... wait.. xcoffeex

Then read on.... hmmmm:eyebrow: :eyebrow:
"UNI would handily defeat San Diego" ....

"In fact, I have made no comparison to this point"

I am happy you weighed in now :bawling: :bawling:

I never said they SD was better, or as good, i said they play both played drake with similar stats/score. I said it would be a good/close game, you made the inference that i thought they were better, i never stated as such... but good talk :nono: :nono: :nono: :bang:

[GOTOREROS]

By the way, welcome to the board AndyK2005.

1) If you have to ask how many teams make the playoffs, then you have no credibility to tell people that USD is a playoff team. None.

2) If you would like to see USD in the playoffs versus some 8-3 "wild card" team from a "power" conference, then you have no idea of how powerful those "wild card" teams can be. WKU won the 2002 championship as an 8-3 at large team. Do a little research before you post such an off base comment.

3) "They are interesting"? You don't find DSU interesting? How about WIU? How about UD (Delaware)? All interesting teams, if you would care to actually get to know a team outside SDU. But, shall we invite all "interesting" teams to the playoffs? How about Salesianum - they're 7-0 also? They happen to play high school..but they are "interesting".

4) It would be nice to see where SDU fits in. If SDU chooses to play a tougher schedule they can see where they "fit in" 4-5 times each year if they really want to. However, it would not be "nice" to exclude another team from the playoffs - one that has earned the right to play - just so SDU fans can find out if they can "fit in".

Well you know the only reason WKU won in 2002 was that someone with the last name of Harbaugh was the coach? Thus the transitive fallacy continues! xlolx

I hope you get the sarcasm in this post - it will be a great thing to win back-to-back PFL titles and play in the Gridiron Classic if we can win out. I would be happy with that, and anything else is gravy!

GOTOREROS

[downbythebeach]

Wow someone needs to calm down.:eek:
Other people can have their points...this is a discussion board.

[BobbyMo]

GOTOREROS,

I wish you guys luck with the rest of the year, as i have made clear, i think you guys deserve a shot, but more than likely will not get one.

I hope we can win out and you can come to P-burgh for the GIC. After next week, the your NEC foe should become much more clear, or much much more confused :)

[YoUDeeMan]

Well you know the only reason WKU won in 2002 was that someone with the last name of Harbaugh was the coach? Thus the transitive fallacy continues! xlolx

I hope you get the sarcasm in this post - it will be a great thing to win back-to-back PFL titles and play in the Gridiron Classic if we can win out. I would be happy with that, and anything else is gravy!

GOTOREROS

AGS elects you as the SDU spokesperson! :hurray:

[GOTOREROS]

GOTOREROS,

I wish you guys luck with the rest of the year, as i have made clear, i think you guys deserve a shot, but more than likely will not get one.

I hope we can win out and you can come to P-burgh for the GIC. After next week, the your NEC foe should become much more clear, or much much more confused :)

Thanks BobbyMo! Again, I think if people took the whole "USD Phenomenon" for what it is, people would not be as fired up. We are the "little" brother who finally seems to be able to step on the same field as "big" brother. We can't beat "big" brother but we are excited to be on the same field. That is my take on this whole scenario! It's the same idea that I would apply to a good I-AA team playing a full schedule of I-A teams...

Good luck the rest of the way! :thumbsup:

GOTOREROS

[GOTOREROS]

AGS elects you as the SDU spokesperson! :hurray:

Thanks - I am sure some are irritated by some of my posts. But I am realistic as to where we fit in the world of football. I want to upgrade our schedule, faciltiies, EVERYTHING but I know what we can and cannot do.

My only controversial moments were with respect to the crazy arrangments that would need to be made IF USD made the playoffs. But, USD won't make the playoffs some who really cares anyway.

We will play UC Davis, and then hopefully in the GIC. No one should really worry about USD stealing a bid - it isn't going to happen. So when someone sees a "USD Playoffs?" thread they should just laugh it off and not even bother getting worked up....just my opinion....

GOTOREROS

[IaaScribe]

Make it fu**ing stop!!!!!

[GOTOREROS]

Make it fu**ing stop!!!!!


See this is where you should just ignore the topic and laugh it off - don't even waste your time responding to the USD playoff talk.....:thumbsup:

GOTOREROS

[YoUDeeMan]

I do not claim to be expert, but i doubt that your know more if even close to what i do (not to be a put down.. by your logic if i put this in it is not a put down xidiotx xidiotx xidiotx )

Knownledge, what is your knowledge of SD based on???? have you seen them play??? how many games???


Obi Wan KiBobby,

Let's see if I have this straight. I respond to another person's post regarding their poorly supported argument about SDU making the playoffs.

You jump in by comparing SDU stats to UNI's stats against a common opponent - and you ask me if that comparison means anything. Then you state that you think they will be on the bubble because they are pounding the people on their schedule.

I respond to your question by replying that you must not have much knowledge about football if your opinion about a team is based upon comparing scores/stats from common opponents.

Nothing in your last post changes that thinking because comparing scores/stats of common opponents is not a basis for a sound opinion.

As for your post above, you are basing your opinion on nothing but your own arrogance. Good luck bringing that attitude to Vegas.

[usdtoreros]

AndyK2005 - How come I haven't seen a single USD fan trumpeting a I-AA championship game between SDU and Charleston Southern?

What? You don't respect another 7-0 I-AA team? Have you posted a single thread that CSU is worthy of a playoff spot? If not (I haven't seen one), then why not? Is it because you do not know anything about CSU? Well, if you don't anything about CSU, then what do you know about the rest of I-AA that you somehow deem SDU playoff worthy?

The fact is...you don't know squat. But, here's what we do know: until USD makes the playoffs, they are, in fact, not a playoff team.

Quit trying to deny it. :bawling:

As you said, there are a more than a few teams each year that haven't played a strong schedule (schedules MUCH stronger than USD's) and think they are a playoff team. Then, given the chance, they prove that they aren't a playoff team. See: Hampton and the OVC. They come to the party and get dismissed.

But, magically, in your opinion, those teams are different than SDU. Poof! Those other teams and their homers did not know what they were talking about.

Pardon me while I recover from my giggles.

Cry about your wanna' be status, but SDU hasn't proven a thing. Oh, my mistake: they have proven they didn't give themselves a tough schedule. That is a fact.

It is easy to win against crappy teams week after week. Or, more accurately, weak after weak. Enjoy them; those garbage victories shouldn't frustrate you as much as they do. xlolx


As far as CSU, have you actually looked at the results of the games. Yes, they are also 7-0, but 5 of those 7 victories have been by 10 or less points. This is compared to USD (and it is USD, not SDU so stop acting like you know everything if you can't even get that right) averaging more points per game and giving up less points per game than any other team in I-AA.

Yes, they have an easier schedule than most other teams, but it is the WAY that they have won, not just that they have won. Also, I think Yale has proven that they are a pretty good team that was manhandled by USD. Don't you find it funny that the posters on here that are not from USD, but have actually seen them play are arguing for USD to get into the playoffs.

Also, could someone please answer this for me. If USD would've only won, let's say, 24-0 today over Drake, everyone would be talking about how USD didn't handle them like UNI (some are still arguing this with a 37-0 victory). But then, if USD trys to score more than that, it is "running up the score." What could they have done to make you happy? Should they try to score as much as they can or is that unethical? I just don't think anything will change your minds in the regular season, so I think USD should get a bid, just so all of us can see where they do fit in. Don't you think a USD-Whoever (Top 4 team) matchup would get more attention than any other first round game? Wouldn't all the attention be good for I-AA football in general? I mean, Harbaugh has been featured in USA Today twice, Josh Johnson has an article about him on ESPN insider and MSNBC had an article on the Toreros. I think a USD playoff game would get plenty of attention outside the I-AA world and I hope no one will try to argue that attention is a bad thing.

[youwouldno]

Pointless issue. There is zero chance San Diego gets a bid. Whether they deserve it or not is academic. There can be discussion of that when they are denied a bid as is sure to happen.

Not a single team USD has played or will play has been in the I-AA playoffs. They played Yale of course, which is the win they brag about... but that one win isn't enough.

Truthfully its not even close. Anyone who wants to arrange a large wager on this, PM me.

[JAX Fin]

JU is going to put it on USD anyways. xlolx

[gobucknell06]

Look, I'm not going to claim I know more than a lot of people on this board, I'm tired of defending USD as a good team, but I have seen USD play in person, and I think that they are as good as some of the top 16 teams. Josh Johnson is a 'lights out' kind of kid.

Their closest game was 26 points and they beat Yale in that game. By the way, Yale is beating legit teams in Penn, the Patriot League teams, etc. Where is the community that thinks Holy Cross doesn't deserve to be in the playoffs? I would defend that much more than USD deserving to get into the playoffs.

[GOTOREROS]

JU is going to put it on USD anyways. xlolx


Now that might be the funniest thing said in this thread yet! Good one JAX! Always nice to break up the argument with a joke!

GOTOREROS

[crunifan]

As far as CSU, have you actually looked at the results of the games. Yes, they are also 7-0, but 5 of those 7 victories have been by 10 or less points. This is compared to USD (and it is USD, not SDU so stop acting like you know everything if you can't even get that right) averaging more points per game and giving up less points per game than any other team in I-AA.

Yes, they have an easier schedule than most other teams, but it is the WAY that they have won, not just that they have won. Also, I think Yale has proven that they are a pretty good team that was manhandled by USD. Don't you find it funny that the posters on here that are not from USD, but have actually seen them play are arguing for USD to get into the playoffs.

Also, could someone please answer this for me. If USD would've only won, let's say, 24-0 today over Drake, everyone would be talking about how USD didn't handle them like UNI (some are still arguing this with a 37-0 victory). But then, if USD trys to score more than that, it is "running up the score." What could they have done to make you happy? Should they try to score as much as they can or is that unethical? I just don't think anything will change your minds in the regular season, so I think USD should get a bid, just so all of us can see where they do fit in. Don't you think a USD-Whoever (Top 4 team) matchup would get more attention than any other first round game? Wouldn't all the attention be good for I-AA football in general? I mean, Harbaugh has been featured in USA Today twice, Josh Johnson has an article about him on ESPN insider and MSNBC had an article on the Toreros. I think a USD playoff game would get plenty of attention outside the I-AA world and I hope no one will try to argue that attention is a bad thing.

Maybe if you took your starters out when you are ahead, like most teams do, you wouldn't get so many points.

[Proud Griz Man]

Make a spot for them. Quit trying to deny it.

Sometimes there are teams that havnt played a strong schedule who are unbeaten but really arent very good.

What people dont realize is that sometimes there are teams who really are good, they just havnt been able to prove it.

If there really isnt a spot for this team in the playoffs, you need to expand the playoffs in the future ASAP because this is a playoff caliber team. I truly hope they get their shot

Another USD thread? :bawling:

I am in favor of sending USD to play at Boone the first round of the playoffs and App State will beat them 41-3.

[UMass922]

Where is the community that thinks Holy Cross doesn't deserve to be in the playoffs? I would defend that much more than USD deserving to get into the playoffs.

Not sure what your point is here. Is there a debate about Holy Cross? Seems to me the consensus is that the Patriot is a one-bid league this year, so either Holy Cross wins the auto-bid and gets in the playoffs that way, or doesn't get in at all. Any debate about whether or not Holy Cross is deserving would really be a debate about whether or not the Patriot League should be an auto-bid conference. And perhaps some people do debate that, but even if that changes in the future, the Patriot League champ is going to make the playoffs this year, so talk about whether that potential champ is deserving is pointless. The "is USD deserving?" talk is relevant because the PFL is not an auto-bid league, so an at-large case would have to be made for the Toreros. Not an issue with Holy Cross.

My apologies if this comment doesn't address your point about Holy Cross and USD, because, again, I'm not entirely clear what you're getting at.

[slostang]

USD may have the talent to be a playoff team, but no way the deserve to awarded a playoff spot over a team that played a real schedule. If USD wants to go to the playoffs, step up and with a real schedule.

[MplsBison]

I wish USD would get 60 scholarships and join the Great West.

[OrneryAggie]

Also, could someone please answer this for me. If USD would've only won, let's say, 24-0 today over Drake, everyone would be talking about how USD didn't handle them like UNI (some are still arguing this with a 37-0 victory). But then, if USD trys to score more than that, it is "running up the score." What could they have done to make you happy? Should they try to score as much as they can or is that unethical? I just don't think anything will change your minds in the regular season.

Running up the score is going for it on 4th & goal and then later scoring with 47 seconds left in the game all while up by 55 against a clearly overmatched opponent. I wonder what Valpo fans thought of that?

Last season South Dakota St beat Valpo 69-6 having pulled most starters at halftime. SDSU was a tough team but finished 6-5 against a schedule with 5 ranked IAA teams and 2 DII's.

[usdtoreros]

Running up the score is going for it on 4th & goal and then later scoring with 47 seconds left in the game all while up by 55 against a clearly overmatched opponent. I wonder what Valpo fans thought of that?

Last season South Dakota St beat Valpo 69-6 having pulled most starters at halftime. SDSU was a tough team but finished 6-5 against a schedule with 5 ranked IAA teams and 2 DII's.


USD pulled most of their starters at halftime too. As for going for it on fourth down, they ran the same play that was stuffed the two previous plays...their fourth string RB going up the gut. If they would've kicked the FG, they would have scored 3 more than they did. And for the final score, their fifth string RB broke through on an off-tackle run. Is he just supposed to fall over before he scores? It was his first action of his career and he isn't supposed to try? In front of the home crowd which probaby included his parents and friends?

And trust me on this, USD could've scored 100 if they wanted to.

[GOTOREROS]

Running up the score is going for it on 4th & goal and then later scoring with 47 seconds left in the game all while up by 55 against a clearly overmatched opponent. I wonder what Valpo fans thought of that?

Last season South Dakota St beat Valpo 69-6 having pulled most starters at halftime. SDSU was a tough team but finished 6-5 against a schedule with 5 ranked IAA teams and 2 DII's.

Maybe you should have a clue about the game before you pop off about what you "think" happened". USD had ZERO starters in the fourth quarter playing. Here is a link to the participation report/play by play. Feel free to use "facts" - USD pulled eveyone out at the end of the third quarter. And if you can provide a link so I can see where SDSU pulled its starters I would appreciate it. Most schools pull starters after or well into the third quarter....we had a 5-6 RB who weighes 160 pounds (Denton bio http://usdtoreros.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/denton_josh00.html)in trying to score on 4th and goal - if that offends you then you have problems....Denton is the smallest player on the team.....:rolleyes:

Game Recap Link
http://usdtoreros.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/stats/2006-2007/valpo.html

GOTOREROS

[GOTOREROS]

I wish USD would get 60 scholarships and join the Great West.

That makes two of us.....:hurray: It would be scary to think of what type of team USD would have WITH scholarships! Tired of USD fans now, imagine what you would have to put up with a scholarship USD team...


GOTOREROS

[youwouldno]

Even if USD was the most talented team in the history of I-AA, it doesn't matter.

The committee won't extend a bid because of their schedule. Period. And I agree with them.

[GOTOREROS]

Even if USD was the most talented team in the history of I-AA, it doesn't matter.

The committee won't extend a bid because of their schedule. Period. And I agree with them.

I agree that THIS USD team will not get a bid, but if they were "the most talented team in the history of I-AA" I would say they would get a bid. But, I get your point....

GOTOREROS

[The Cats]

Make a spot for them. Quit trying to deny it.

Sometimes there are teams that havnt played a strong schedule who are unbeaten but really arent very good.

What people dont realize is that sometimes there are teams who really are good, they just havnt been able to prove it.

If there really isnt a spot for this team in the playoffs, you need to expand the playoffs in the future ASAP because this is a playoff caliber team. I truly hope they get their shot

My :twocents:

Just another thread to keep San Diego on the board. Why don't these guys start their own board???

:bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang:

[usdtoreros]

Even if USD was the most talented team in the history of I-AA, it doesn't matter.

The committee won't extend a bid because of their schedule. Period. And I agree with them.

That is just a stupid. Aren't the playoffs supposed to work out who the best team in the country is? The playoffs lose all meaning if the top 8 at large teams don't make it. I believe the committee will be looking closer at the teams than just the schedule and records.

Do I think USD deserves a bid if they win out? Maybe, but they do deserve serious consideration. I will not argue that they should definately be in because I don't know much about all the other bubble teams, but that is why there is a committee, so they can determine who the best 8 teams are.

[MplsBison]

That makes two of us.....:hurray: It would be scary to think of what type of team USD would have WITH scholarships! Tired of USD fans now, imagine what you would have to put up with a scholarship USD team...

Well what the heck are they waiting for?

It's not like CA is lacking high school talent.

[usdtoreros]

Well what the heck are they waiting for?

It's not like CA is lacking high school talent.

It's called $$$ and Title IX. They would have to either add a few more women's scholarship sports (costing more money) or cut many men's scholarships, and there is no way that is happening.

[Coastal89]

Running up the score is going for it on 4th & goal and then later scoring with 47 seconds left in the game all while up by 55 against a clearly overmatched opponent. I wonder what Valpo fans thought of that?

Last season South Dakota St beat Valpo 69-6 having pulled most starters at halftime. SDSU was a tough team but finished 6-5 against a schedule with 5 ranked IAA teams and 2 DII's.
That reminds me of the last D-II team that Coastal played, Mansfield. Coastaal won 71-8 after pulling the starters in the second quarter. We played 89 players in that game, the most ever. Does San Diego even have 89 players dressed out?

[Cincy App]

The committee won't extend (San Diego) a bid because of their schedule. Period. And I agree with them.

I agree - their schedule is the bottom line. San Diego has a schedule full of mid-majors and sub- IAA games. We only have 2 games to judge them on - Yale and UCD. One of these games is scheduled after the playoff selections (UCD).

San Diego at 1-0 will not make the playoffs (only one meaningful win). They chose not to seek the playoffs with their non-conference schedule. They may be a good team but the Toreros haven't given us enough to judge them on. Enjoy your UCD and mid-major bowl games. Next year, schedule like you want to be considered for the playoffs. Earn our respect on the field against top competition.

[GOTOREROS]

That reminds me of the last D-II team that Coastal played, Mansfield. Coastaal won 71-8 after pulling the starters in the second quarter. We played 89 players in that game, the most ever. Does San Diego even have 89 players dressed out?

Now you are showing your ignorance.....like I said check out the game recap......

GOTOREROS

[Death Dealer]

Once again we delve into the overwrought topic of USD and the playoffs. I feel for the team. Clearly, they are in the wrong conference, and the AD has way underestimated the talents of the team. That sucks for the players and coaches, but does not change the facts.

Scholarship programs are expensive, but if smaller poorer schools can do it, so can USD. If you guys put nearly as much effort putting pressur on your administration through your athletic booster organization as you do arguing your point to this board (who by the way, can't do a damn thing to help you), you'd be able to effect change where it needs to happen. Of course, that might cost you in the pocket books. Money talks very loudly in all levels of inter-collegiate sports.

I don't know what to tell you. I don't see you getting a bid this year. Do you have the talent to compete in the playoffs? Noone knows, and therein lies the problem. You want a chance to prove that you deserve to be in the playoffs? You had that chance all year long, and didn't take advantage of it. Not the fans faults, not the players faults, but a reality nonetheless. Do something about it!

[GOTOREROS]

Once again we delve into the overwrought topic of USD and the playoffs. I feel for the team. Clearly, they are in the wrong conference, and the AD has way underestimated the talents of the team. That sucks for the players and coaches, but does not change the facts.

Scholarship programs are expensive, but if smaller poorer schools can do it, so can USD. If you guys put nearly as much effort putting pressur on your administration through your athletic booster organization as you do arguing your point to this board (who by the way, can't do a damn thing to help you), you'd be able to effect change where it needs to happen. Of course, that might cost you in the pocket books. Money talks very loudly in all levels of inter-collegiate sports.

I don't know what to tell you. I don't see you getting a bid this year. Do you have the talent to compete in the playoffs? Noone knows, and therein lies the problem. You want a chance to prove that you deserve to be in the playoffs? You had that chance all year long, and didn't take advantage of it. Not the fans faults, not the players faults, but a reality nonetheless. Do something about it!

Death Dealer-

I agree 100% wiht your post. Maybe the best take on the whole "USD situation". What you laid out is exactly what I and others are trying to do behind the scenes at USD. We are SLOWLY getting more and more people on board who have the resources and clout to push the USD administration. Will we go scholarship? Probably not very soon, but it could happen down the line. Maybe the PFL needs to follow the NEC and its plan. USD is a really good team, but again I am not holding out hope that we get a bid. I thikn we will be at the Gridiron Classic on 12/2/06...

GOTOREROS

[Coastal89]

Now you are showing your ignorance.....like I said check out the game recap......

GOTOREROS
3 personnal attacks in one thread. Everybody that doesn't agree with your POV is either ignorant or an idiot. You need to grow up and try to accept reality, your team hasn't proven itself against real competition.

[Death Dealer]

Death Dealer-
What you laid out is exactly what I and others are trying to do behind the scenes at USD. We are SLOWLY getting more and more people on board who have the resources and clout to push the USD administration. Will we go scholarship? Probably not very soon, but it could happen down the line.
GOTOREROS

GT, I'm not so sure you would hav to go Scholly so soon....you seem to be able to attract talent without them now.....be tough to win an NC without them, but not to make the playoffs. Good luck with your efforts.

[OL FU]

GT, I'm not so sure you would hav to go Scholly so soon....you seem to be able to attract talent without them now.....be tough to win an NC without them, but not to make the playoffs. Good luck with your efforts.

They need to move while they still have Harbaugh. :nod:

and yes that was a good synopsis of USD:nod:

[Death Dealer]

They need to move while they still have Harbaugh. :nod:

and yes that was a good synopsis of USD:nod:

Thanks OL. I really respect your opinion. And you are probably right about Harbaugh.....he is definitely one their biggest strengths. Someone mentioned his dad coming out of retirement to take over the program after he leaves...that would be interesting.

[AndrewFU21]

This year has shown that the current system does not succeed in getting the best 16 teams into the field. If USD goes undefeated, in my mind they will be more deserving than whoever gets the AQ from the Patriot, OVC, and SLC.

[JohnStOnge]

I agree their schedule is a big problem, yet I would like to see this team in the playoffs much more than some 8-3 wild card team from a "power" conference.



I think it'd be kind of interesting to see San Diego in the playoffs too but it's quite possible for teams that are 8-3, 7-4, and even 6-5 from power conferences that are better footall teams than a team that runs up big scores against a weak schedule. I mean, after all, last year's national champion ended the regular season 8-3.

If it came down to it, I'd have no problem with an 8-3 team going in over an undefeated San Diego if a good argument can be made that going 8-3 against one schedule is more impressive than going 10-0 against the other.

[YoUDeeMan]

(and it is USD, not SDU so stop acting like you know everything if you can't even get that right)

But then, if USD trys to score more than that, it is "running up the score."

sdutoreros, :rotateh:

My post did include several "USD"s with those "SDU"s. Next time, when linking typos to a person's knowledge, you might not want to include your own typo in your response. xidiotx

Some of your other typos from this thread only:

1) Don't you think a USD-Whoever (Top 4 team) matchup would get more attention than any other first round game?

2) In front of the home crowd which probaby included his parents and friends?

3) I will not argue that they should definately be in because I don't know much about all the other bubble teams, but that is why there is a committee, so they can determine who the best 8 teams are.

:nono:

Everybody has typos. Get over it.

[Tailbone]

This year has shown that the current system does not succeed in getting the best 16 teams into the field. If USD goes undefeated, in my mind they will be more deserving than whoever gets the AQ from the Patriot, OVC, and SLC.

Yet, (IMO) less deserving than a 7-4 bubble team like PSU (who likewise will probably miss the playoffs).

Some would argue that PSU deserves to miss the playoffs for bad (stupid) scheduling. The respective school administrations share culpability in both cases.

[YoUDeeMan]

Death Dealer-

I agree 100% wiht your post. Maybe the best take on the whole "USD situation". What you laid out is exactly what I and others are trying to do behind the scenes at USD. We are SLOWLY getting more and more people on board who have the resources and clout to push the USD administration. Will we go scholarship? Probably not very soon, but it could happen down the line. Maybe the PFL needs to follow the NEC and its plan. USD is a really good team, but again I am not holding out hope that we get a bid. I thikn we will be at the Gridiron Classic on 12/2/06...

GOTOREROS

An interesting question is whether your coach(es) will stick around for any of those changes. They seem to have good resumes and the ability to recruit some talent. But, will they be gone by the time USD beefs up their schedule?

[rmutv]

It has nothing to do with San Diego beating Drake or Yale.

It has everything to do San Diego playing sub-Division I-AA teams in Azusza Pacific and Dixie State.

No team that has played that low caliber of teams has made the I-AA playoffs in recent years.

And San Diego didn't even beat GOOD D-II/NAIA teams. They beat lousy ones.

By that logic, it's perfectly acceptable that if Robert Morris had run the table this year (which they haven't and won't, but hypothetical here...) they should get in because they beat Rowan (D-3 powerhouse), Butler, Duquesne, and Dayton.

Despite only one non-I-AA team on the schedule, that's still a weak schedule because of how Dayton and Butler have played in the PFL this year. Plus, Duquesne lost to friggin' West Liberty State.

SOS is everything. San Diego beat Drake and Yale, but they played two teams that aren't even in the same classification.

No chance for the playoffs. Beat some other good teams and then we'll talk.

[dbackjon]

By the San Diego Transitive Property:

San Diego 41, Dixie State 7 (34 point win)
NAU 66, Dixie State 14 (52 point win)


Since NAU is only 4th in the Big Sky, it is easily determined that there should be four Big Sky teams taken (at minimum) before San Diego......

[grizband]

By the San Diego Transitive Property:

San Diego 41, Dixie State 7 (34 point win)
NAU 66, Dixie State 14 (52 point win)


Since NAU is only 4th in the Big Sky, it is easily determined that there should be four Big Sky teams taken (at minimum) before San Diego......
xsmileyclapx xsmileyclapx

[PantherMan]

By the San Diego Transitive Property:

San Diego 41, Dixie State 7 (34 point win)
NAU 66, Dixie State 14 (52 point win)


Since NAU is only 4th in the Big Sky, it is easily determined that there should be four Big Sky teams taken (at minimum) before San Diego......

BEST POST OF THE THREAD!!!:bow:

[P2TheB]

Let's ask Drake fans what they think about the comparison b/t the two teams:

http://drakenation.com/Topic5039-9-1.aspx

[Coastal89]

Let's ask Drake fans what they think about the comparison b/t the two teams:

http://drakenation.com/Topic5039-9-1.aspx
I doubt DF got the responses that he expected.

[MplsBison]

and it is USD, not SDU so stop acting like you know everything if you can't even get that right

www.usd.edu is the homepage for the University of South Dakota (which will be DI-AA in a couple of years).

So San Diego is not USD. Try again.

[AggiePride]

It has nothing to do with San Diego beating Drake or Yale.

It has everything to do San Diego playing sub-Division I-AA teams in Azusza Pacific and Dixie State.

No team that has played that low caliber of teams has made the I-AA playoffs in recent years.

And San Diego didn't even beat GOOD D-II/NAIA teams. They beat lousy ones.

By that logic, it's perfectly acceptable that if Robert Morris had run the table this year (which they haven't and won't, but hypothetical here...) they should get in because they beat Rowan (D-3 powerhouse), Butler, Duquesne, and Dayton.

Despite only one non-I-AA team on the schedule, that's still a weak schedule because of how Dayton and Butler have played in the PFL this year. Plus, Duquesne lost to friggin' West Liberty State.

SOS is everything. San Diego beat Drake and Yale, but they played two teams that aren't even in the same classification.

No chance for the playoffs. Beat some other good teams and then we'll talk.


Exactly, my Non-scholly D2 aggies would have laughed at the USD schedule...

What does that say?

[usdtoreros]

www.usd.edu is the homepage for the University of South Dakota (which will be DI-AA in a couple of years).

So San Diego is not USD. Try again.

Yes, San Diego is USD. Are you trying to tell me that domain names determine abbreviations? It is the University of San Diego (USD) not San Diego University (SDU).

[GOTOREROS]

Yes, San Diego is USD. Are you trying to tell me that domain names determine abbreviations? It is the University of San Diego (USD) not San Diego University (SDU).

LOL! Using domain addresses to name colleges? USD's web address is www.sandiego.edu by the way if you wanted to actaully learn something about the school.

Also, by your logic South Dakota State University can't call itself SDSU since San Diego State Univesity is www.sdsu.edu.

Everything you see on the "USD" website refers to the Unviersity of San Diego. It's amazing how many people post without any knowledge or facts....:bang:

GOTOREROS

[GOTOREROS]

Exactly, my Non-scholly D2 aggies would have laughed at the USD schedule...

What does that say?

Well it should be noted that RMU LOST to Dayton 21-14 I believe, so throw that argument out....

GOTOREROS

[GOTOREROS]

An interesting question is whether your coach(es) will stick around for any of those changes. They seem to have good resumes and the ability to recruit some talent. But, will they be gone by the time USD beefs up their schedule?

Of all the coaches I really don't want to leave is Dave Adolph our defense coordinator. Adolph was the DC for Woody Hayes at OSU, and also the DC for the Chiefs and Chargers I believe. I think he would stay, his wife is ill and I don't think he would pack up and move. I think Harbaugh is a great offensive coach, but the defense is my baby.

But yes, it could really hurt USD if a lot of the coaches left...

GOTOREROS

[AggiePride]

Well it should be noted that RMU LOST to Dayton 21-14 I believe, so throw that argument out....

GOTOREROS

Yeh, that really has to deal with your SOS....

My d2 aggies are still lauging...

[Tealblood]

adrewfu stand by your opinion who goes an 8-3 furman or san diego

[rmutv]

Well it should be noted that RMU LOST to Dayton 21-14 I believe, so throw that argument out....

GOTOREROS

Did you even read my post? I already said that it was a hypothetical comparison, looking at a team that has had a decent season in a conference that is in the similar position as the PFL. Of course RMU lost to Dayton. They also lost to Duquesne and Monmouth this past weekend.

Reading Comprehension 101 must not be a mandatory course at San Diego.

[MplsBison]

Also, by your logic South Dakota State University can't call itself SDSU since San Diego State Univesity is www.sdsu.edu.

Correct.

SDSU = San Diego State

SD State = South Dakota State.

That's what I've used for a while, anyway.


Everything you see on the "USD" website refers to the Unviersity of San Diego.



I went to www.usd.edu and didn't see anything refering to the U of San Diego.

[Tealblood]

you have to have 7 dI wins for an at large correct
San Diego will not have 7 wins if they do not play the Davis game correct

[GOTOREROS]

Yeh, that really has to deal with your SOS....

My d2 aggies are still lauging...

My point is that you can only play the teams on your schedule. USD has done that thus far and BEAT those teams - everything else is conjecture. You have a point about SOS and I accept that - simply saying that we can only talk about what has ACTUALLY happened this year....that's all.

I am only saying that to make arguments on hypotheticals in a non-starter with respect to this discussion.....in my opinion....

GOTOREROS

[GOTOREROS]

you have to have 7 dI wins for an at large correct
San Diego will not have 7 wins if they do not play the Davis game correct

Yale I-AA
Davidson I-AA
Butler I-AA
Valpo I-AA
Drake I-AA
Morehead St I-AA
Jacksonville I-AA
Dayton I-AA

I count 8 teams, we have 5 wins now and 8 IF we win out....and this is not counting UC Davis obviously.....

GOTOREROS

[AggiePride]

My point is that you can only play the teams on your schedule. USD has done that thus far and BEAT those teams - everything else is conjecture. You have a point about SOS and I accept that - simply saying that we can only talk about what has ACTUALLY happened this year....that's all.

I am only saying that to make arguments on hypotheticals in a non-starter with respect to this discussion.....in my opinion....

GOTOREROS

I understand that all USD wants to talk about is being undefeated against crappy teams..

THe point is that it does not amount to cr@p in non mid-major I-AA.

[rmutv]

San Diego is not one of the top 16 teams in the country. No statistical analysis or twisting of the argument is going to get the majority of people to agree with the statement that they are.

[Tealblood]

but you can't count Davis

[rmutv]

He's not counting Davis.

San Diego will have 8 Division I wins if they win out and DO NOT play the UC Davis game. They play 11 games, had two against a D-2 and NAIA team, and then the UC Davis game.

Still doesn't matter. They won't get in.

[GOTOREROS]

He's not counting Davis.

San Diego will have 8 Division I wins if they win out and DO NOT play the UC Davis game. They play 11 games, had two against a D-2 and NAIA team, and then the UC Davis game.

Still doesn't matter. They won't get in.

Thanks RMUTV. I am not saying USD will get a bid, just saying that we are eligible and IF the committee wanted they COULD give us a bid. Is it going to happen? Most likely not - and I am OK with that. If we had played Davis earlier and beaten them then maybe we MIGHT get a bid. But, we have played who we have played and that is the situation.

Everything is pure conjecture and its up to the I-AA committee to decide after all is said and done..

GOTOREROS

[Sam Adams]

I can't see them getting in with that schedule. But stranger things have happened I suppose.

[OrneryAggie]

Maybe you should have a clue about the game before you pop off about what you "think" happened". USD had ZERO starters in the fourth quarter playing. Here is a link to the participation report/play by play. Feel free to use "facts" - USD pulled eveyone out at the end of the third quarter. And if you can provide a link so I can see where SDSU pulled its starters I would appreciate it. Most schools pull starters after or well into the third quarter....we had a 5-6 RB who weighes 160 pounds (Denton bio http://usdtoreros.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/denton_josh00.html)in trying to score on 4th and goal - if that offends you then you have problems....Denton is the smallest player on the team.....:rolleyes:

Game Recap Link
http://usdtoreros.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/stats/2006-2007/valpo.html

I did look at those pages before I posted. Here's SDSU's play-by-play for the Valpo game:
http://gojacks.sdstate.edu/02sdsufb.htm
QB Andy Kardoes and RB Anthony Watson are done at halftime.

Here's the FACTS. USD scored a TD on a first down with 47 seconds left in the game. 2 knees could've ended the game without RUNNING UP THE SCORE. It's obvious you are as much of a clueless punk as your coach.

[Russ B]

San Diego is not one of the top 16 teams in the country.

The playoffs aren't set by taking the top sixteen teams.

[rmutv]

I know. Conference champs may not be part of that group. However, any team that is an at-large bid will come from that group.

[Russ B]

:thumbsup:

[GOTOREROS]

I did look at those pages before I posted. Here's SDSU's play-by-play for the Valpo game:
http://gojacks.sdstate.edu/02sdsufb.htm
QB Andy Kardoes and RB Anthony Watson are done at halftime.

Here's the FACTS. USD scored a TD on a first down with 47 seconds left in the game. 2 knees could've ended the game without RUNNING UP THE SCORE. It's obvious you are as much of a clueless punk as your coach.

Well, it's called REWARDING your back-ups......Harbaugh rewards guys who NEVER usually see the field. You can disagree and piss and moan, but I personally I think its great to get kids who never play, a chance to score in front of friends and family. If players are offended, they can always quit and play intramural flag football or join a little league with a "mercy" rule.

If UC Davis works us by 55 points and hands off to a 4th string RB and he scores with 2 seconds left I really don't care. I'm not that thin-skinned. Good for the kid he probably deserves it!

GOTOREROS

[Russ B]

Davis' RBs get hurt often enough that it's likely you'll see the 4th string guy as a starter. :bawling: :p

[crunifan]

Yes, San Diego is USD. Are you trying to tell me that domain names determine abbreviations? It is the University of San Diego (USD) not San Diego University (SDU).

That's why schools copyright their abbreviations.

UNI is copyrighted...the University of Northern Iowa is the only school that can use those three letters to abbreivate itself. Makes things a little easier.

[GOTOREROS]

That's why schools copyright their abbreviations.

UNI is copyrighted...the University of Northern Iowa is the only school that can use those three letters to abbreivate itself. Makes things a little easier.

Yeah, "USC" errr.....South Carolina must be pissed at "USC" errrrr.....Southern Californa.

Visit the South Carolina website www.sc.edu - all you see is "USC" on their page but as you said "Southern Cal" copyrighted it first evidently, and has www.usc.edu.

There are tons of schools where the web address doesn't match exactly - it's a big world we live in people....:hurray:

GOTOREROS

[PantherRob82]

If San Diego makes it in, you better hope they perform, or they may never get a shot again.

The comparative scores thing is a joke. The only decent teams USD has played so far are Yale and Drake. No one to beat up on you, tire your team out, or cause any injuries. When you play top teams a lot of the time, you have to be a good full team, not just a few good starters or first string.

[GOTOREROS]

If San Diego makes it in, you better hope they perform, or they may never get a shot again.

The comparative scores thing is a joke. The only decent teams USD has played so far are Yale and Drake. No one to beat up on you, tire your team out, or cause any injuries. When you play top teams a lot of the time, you have to be a good full team, not just a few good starters or first string.

I don't disagree with you or others. Until USD plays "someone" it is pure conjecture as to how good we are. We could be that good but our schedule does not allow us to show it to the nation. We could also be grossly overrated compared to scholarship teams. I guess we find out 11/25 at Davis...

GOTOREROS

[OrneryAggie]

Well, it's called REWARDING your back-ups......Harbaugh rewards guys who NEVER usually see the field. You can disagree and piss and moan, but I personally I think its great to get kids who never play, a chance to score in front of friends and family. If players are offended, they can always quit and play intramural flag football or join a little league with a "mercy" rule.

If UC Davis works us by 55 points and hands off to a 4th string RB and he scores with 2 seconds left I really don't care. I'm not that thin-skinned. Good for the kid he probably deserves it!

GOTOREROS

Look buddy, you asked me to back up my argument with facts and I did. Next time you pop off about me popping off you better be prepared for me to defend my position.

If Harbaugh wants to reward his backups why not let them play earlier? USD is clearly destroying all of its competition so the backups could score at will in the 3rd quarter just as easily. There is absolutely no need to score on a first down with 47 seconds left and up by 55 pts. That's just an inexcusable way to tear an ACL or break a bone.

Two different schools of thought. I was raised on sportsmanship and respect, not pissing on your opponent when he's down. Keep 'rewarding' your backups and you'll get your come-uppins soon enough.

[GOTOREROS]

Look buddy, you asked me to back up my argument with facts and I did. Next time you pop off about me popping off you better be prepared for me to defend my position.

If Harbaugh wants to reward his backups why not let them play earlier? USD is clearly destroying all of its competition so the backups could score at will in the 3rd quarter just as easily. There is absolutely no need to score on a first down with 47 seconds left and up by 55 pts. That's just an inexcusable way to tear an ACL or break a bone.

Two different schools of thought. I was raised on sportsmanship and respect, not pissing on your opponent when he's down. Keep 'rewarding' your backups and you'll get your come-uppins soon enough.

Well the USD starters were OUT at the end of the third quarter. Perhaps the back-ups couldn't score right away - hence, why they are back-ups. I asked you to provide data about the SDSU game which you did - thank you that clears it up. I asked you that becuse when forming an argument you need to have data rather than simply stating things without evidence. Just because you say it is so, doesn't make it so. That is why I provided you the game recap so you could see USD pulled its starters before the 4th quarter.

But you did not acknowledge that USD pulled its starters at the end of the THIRD quarter. And for the last TD, yeah 47 seconds left isn't a lot of time. The fans probably wanted to leave and get home, but so what? Harbaugh wanted to get the kids some action and a score in front of his family.....big deal. As I said, my feelings won't be hurt if we lost to Davis by 100 points - big deal it's college football not life and death.....you have your persepctive I have mine. If Valpo can't stop USD that's their problem. And if USD can't stop Davis that's OUR problem......I take as good as I get. I will be here after the Davis game even if we lost by a million. Like I said, I don't live and die because of how USD plays. My life is a lot more meaningful than that...trust me my feelings won't be hurt by the Davis football team........xcoffeex

"In life sometimes you eat the bear, sometimes in life the bear eats you....."

GOTOREROS

[Torero Tradition]

Big win for USD over the weekend. Should win their second consecutive PFL title.

[AndyK2005]

Go Torreros! :hurray:

[AndyK2005]

hmmm, seems like a "ceremonial" #25 ranking is the glass ceiling San Diego is allowed.

but what happens if Yale keeps winning?

CRUNCH!

you dont want to rank SD higher than 25

you cant keep Yale out of the top 25 if they keep winning

and how can you rank Yale ahead of San Diego?

a conundrum for the ages......

[cosmo here]

hmmm, seems like a "ceremonial" #25 ranking is the glass ceiling San Diego is allowed.

but what happens if Yale keeps winning?

CRUNCH!

you dont want to rank SD higher than 25

you cant keep Yale out of the top 25 if they keep winning

and how can you rank Yale ahead of San Diego?

a conundrum for the ages......

I already have Yale ahead of San Diego and I'm not that conflicted by it . . they've played, and beat, better teams.

[AndyK2005]

yep, that makes sense, San Diego vs Yale, San Diego was on the road, far far away from home and the score was....

San Diego 41
Yale 17

c'mon guys, this isnt division 1-A where the little guy always gets the shaft is it?

give the Hickory Huskers their shot

[GannonFan]

yep, that makes sense, San Diego vs Yale, San Diego was on the road, far far away from home and the score was....

San Diego 41
Yale 17

c'mon guys, this isnt division 1-A where the little guy always gets the shaft is it?

give the Hickory Huskers their shot

Hickory's schedule was better. Oolick and Terhune were some decent teams! ;) Play a real schedule, then try the playoffs. Everyone else does.

[dbackjon]

hmmm, seems like a "ceremonial" #25 ranking is the glass ceiling San Diego is allowed.

but what happens if Yale keeps winning?

CRUNCH!

you dont want to rank SD higher than 25

you cant keep Yale out of the top 25 if they keep winning

and how can you rank Yale ahead of San Diego?

a conundrum for the ages......

By the San Diego Transitive Property:

San Diego 41, Dixie State 7 (34 point win)
NAU 66, Dixie State 14 (52 point win)


Therefore, NAU should be ranked ahead of San Diego.........:hurray: :hurray: :hurray: :hurray: :hurray: :hurray: :hurray: :hurray: :hurray: :bow: :bow: :bow:

[AndyK2005]

I have San Diego -68 vs Oolick

my line.


:D

[BigApp]

I am in favor of sending USD to play at Boone the first round of the playoffs and App State will beat them 41-3.

excellent!
http://www.summitbenefit.com/burns2.gif

[BigApp]

should Charleston Southern and San Dee-yay-go go unbeaten, I propose a "play-in" game similar to the NCAA basketball tournament.

Play the game on a Tuesday before Thanksgiving. Winner (or loser, depending on your point of view) comes to Boone on Saturday...:D

[MplsBison]

Assuming that ASU is given the #1 seed.

Even if they win out, not a guarantee.

[Frosty The Snowbuff]

AndyK2005 - How come I haven't seen a single USD fan trumpeting a I-AA championship game between SDU and Charleston Southern?

What? You don't respect another 7-0 I-AA team? Have you posted a single thread that CSU is worthy of a playoff spot? If not (I haven't seen one), then why not? Is it because you do not know anything about CSU? Well, if you don't anything about CSU, then what do you know about the rest of I-AA that you somehow deem SDU playoff worthy?

The fact is...you don't know squat. But, here's what we do know: until USD makes the playoffs, they are, in fact, not a playoff team.

Quit trying to deny it. :bawling:

As you said, there are a more than a few teams each year that haven't played a strong schedule (schedules MUCH stronger than USD's) and think they are a playoff team. Then, given the chance, they prove that they aren't a playoff team. See: Hampton and the OVC. They come to the party and get dismissed.

But, magically, in your opinion, those teams are different than SDU. Poof! Those other teams and their homers did not know what they were talking about.

Pardon me while I recover from my giggles.

Cry about your wanna' be status, but SDU hasn't proven a thing. Oh, my mistake: they have proven they didn't give themselves a tough schedule. That is a fact.

It is easy to win against crappy teams week after week. Or, more accurately, weak after weak. Enjoy them; those garbage victories shouldn't frustrate you as much as they do. xlolx


I'm curious to see if CSU is for real...or are they another version of San Diego...

I will see in November when they play both Coastal Carolina (who beat them last year) and Liberty (I think it was) on the road in their final 2 games of the season...

[BillLuc1982]

should Charleston Southern and San Dee-yay-go go unbeaten, I propose a "play-in" game similar to the NCAA basketball tournament.

Play the game on a Tuesday before Thanksgiving. Winner (or loser, depending on your point of view) comes to Boone on Saturday...:D

Comes to Boone on Saturday and gets :spank:
If USD or Charleston Southern played ASU, ASU 42, other team not more than 21.
Side note: ASU would put their 2nd string in during the second half.

[Black and Gold Express]

Assuming that ASU is given the #1 seed.

Even if they win out, not a guarantee.

If we win out, I think you'll find it's all but guaranteed. Your bias against ASU notwithstanding, the top team in the polls has never not been the #1 seed that I can recall.

And I would love to see the Apps dish a steaming pile of shut-the-hell-up to San Diego. That is, if they can stand coming out to a field that's covered in snow and/or cold rain and wind. Big difference from the temperate climates they're from.

Or if not Boone, send 'em to Missoula. Even better in that regards.

[MplsBison]

My point was that even if they win out they might not be #1 in the polls.

Not that the #1 seed isn't given to the #1 in the polls.

[Coastal89]

By the San Diego Transitive Property:

San Diego 41, Dixie State 7 (34 point win)
NAU 66, Dixie State 14 (52 point win)


Therefore, NAU should be ranked ahead of San Diego.........:hurray: :hurray: :hurray: :hurray: :hurray: :hurray: :hurray: :hurray: :hurray: :bow: :bow: :bow:
Here's a better one dbackjon,
USD beat Azusa Pacific 27-0
D-II Southern Oregon beat AP 57-7

I think USD needs to put SO on the schedule.

[BigApp]

Even if they win out, not a guarantee.

Assuming we win out (and that's a big IF), under what scenario can you come up with where would we NOT get the #1 seed?

[BillLuc1982]

Isn't the transitive property of football (a fallacy) A beats B and B beats C = A beats C. Margin of victory is not involved with the transitive property. Also, with the transitive property, D2 Chadron State would beat D1A Colorado

[OrneryAggie]

Isn't the transitive property of football (a fallacy) A beats B and B beats C = A beats C. Margin of victory is not involved with the transitive property. Also, with the transitive property, D2 Chadron State would beat D1A Colorado

According to this computer model that is correct:
http://prwolfe.bol.ucla.edu/cfootball/rothman.txt

Chadron is at #93, CU at 104.

[gobucknell06]

BillLuc is correct -- football scores are intransitive. This is mostly because there are SO MANY football games. Remember...on any given saturday.

But yeah..I started a thread called SHJU (Shut Jim Harbuagh Up) with the aim of getting USD to play Montana in the first round. Otherwise, we have to hear from Jimbo how they would have beaten the Chargers until next year.

[GOTOREROS]

BillLuc is correct -- football scores are intransitive. This is mostly because there are SO MANY football games. Remember...on any given saturday.

But yeah..I started a thread called SHJU (Shut Jim Harbuagh Up) with the aim of getting USD to play Montana in the first round. Otherwise, we have to hear from Jimbo how they would have beaten the Chargers until next year.

Well, you should know that "AnyGivenSaturday" only applies to certain teams. Most people here don't believe in that idea as evidenced by the majority of the posts here. Certain teams have no chance and this moniker does not apply to them....;)

GOTOREROS

[dbackjon]

Isn't the transitive property of football (a fallacy) A beats B and B beats C = A beats C. Margin of victory is not involved with the transitive property. Also, with the transitive property, D2 Chadron State would beat D1A Colorado

You are correct - the post was sarcastic, and in response to the San Diego posters who are claiming that since they beat Drake worse than UNI did, that they are somehow therefore able to beat/compete with any team in the country.

[The Cats]

Make a spot for them. Quit trying to deny it.

You don't make a spot for them just because you (or they) think they deserve one. Every top 25 team thinks they deserve to be there as well. There will be at least 5 other teams that will not make the playoffs that will be able to make a valid justification for their inclusion. Strength of schedule does matter, there has to be some qualifiers. Stop trying to deny it.

:bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang:

[GOTOREROS]

You are correct - the post was sarcastic, and in response to the San Diego posters who are claiming that since they beat Drake worse than UNI did, that they are somehow therefore able to beat/compete with any team in the country.

Can I see that post where a USD fan said that? That is pretty stupid to say - just looking for the quote. Since we only beat Drake by 37 points and UNI beat them by 41 points that doesn't make much sense anyway. Thanks.

GOTOREROS

[gobucknell06]

I predict USD moves up one spot in every poll this week since:

Maine will lose.
Richmond will lose to JMU.
Portland St. will lose to Oregon.
Youngstown St. will lose to Illinois St.

[GOTOREROS]

I predict USD moves up one spot in every poll this week since:

Maine will lose.
Richmond will lose to JMU.
Portland St. will lose to Oregon.
Youngstown St. will lose to Illinois St.

I predict USD will stay the same/drop in the polls because all the voters can't stand USD.....xlolx

GOTOREROS

[Guard Dawg]

Thing is - that we've heard about "playoff caliber" teams *coughHamptoncough* that run the table in weak conferences then proceed to get it handed to 'em against real competition.

I'd much rather see an 8-3 team that played a good schedule than an undefeated team that waltzed in playing cupcakes.

I'd much rather see a 7-4 team get in than a highly ranked USD team as well. :bawling:

[JohnStOnge]

San Diego is not one of the top 16 teams in the country. No statistical analysis or twisting of the argument is going to get the majority of people to agree with the statement that they are.

Well...for SURE we don't know that they're NOT one of the top 16 I-AAs in the country. And while I'm not in the majority, I think it's quite possible that they are.

As always, I look at objective power rating systems. Those systems do all we can really do: Look at the outcomes of their games while taking strength of opposition into account. I've studied Sagarin and Dunkel pretty much over the years and have respect for them. Sagarin has San Diego rated 10th in I-AA and Dunkel has the Torreos rated 11th. Massey, which Ralph likes, has San Diego rated 19th.

To me, there's no question they're in the ballpark.

[Guard Dawg]

Well...for SURE we don't know that they're NOT one of the top 16 I-AAs in the country. And while I'm not in the majority, I think it's quite possible that they are.

As always, I look at objective power rating systems. Those systems do all we can really do: Look at the outcomes of their games while taking strength of opposition into account. I've studied Sagarin and Dunkel pretty much over the years and have respect for them. Sagarin has San Diego rated 10th in I-AA and Dunkel has the Torreos rated 11th. Massey, which Ralph likes, has San Diego rated 19th.

To me, there's no question they're in the ballpark.

What would USD need to be ranked to make it in without question? what is the highest ranked GPI team to have never been selected? I think USD needs to set that record this year... and I think they will.

[matfu]

san diego has as much chance getting in thr playoffs this year as georgia southern.....ZERO!!!

[RabidRabbit]

USD would only have 8 wins against IAA, 7 against the PFL, and Yale, in Yale's first game of the season. They will not play UCD if selected for the play-offs. UCD is the ONLY tough game USD plays this year.

Does Chuck So. get in if they squeek by CCU and run the table? My guess is yes, but CSU still gets mopped up by their 1st round opponent.

Right now, GPI top 25 has 7 A-10's, 4 Great West, and 5 Gateway. There aren't going to be a great selection of eligible schollie programs that don't have 4 loses, and in most cases, with one sub D-I program, this means not having 7 D-I wins.

[Griz Grunt]

USD would only have 8 wins against IAA, 7 against the PFL, and Yale, in Yale's first game of the season. They will not play UCD if selected for the play-offs. UCD is the ONLY tough game USD plays this year.

Does Chuck So. get in if they squeek by CCU and run the table? My guess is yes, but CSU still gets mopped up by their 1st round opponent.

Right now, GPI top 25 has 7 A-10's, 4 Great West, and 5 Gateway. There aren't going to be a great selection of eligible schollie programs that don't have 4 loses, and in most cases, with one sub D-I program, this means not having 7 D-I wins.

http://people.montana.com/~rkdl/San-Diego.gif
Missed Dayton!

[Guard Dawg]

san diego has as much chance getting in thr playoffs this year as georgia southern.....ZERO!!!

I hope so! It's just so wierd seeing a team with zero chance ranked so high in all the polls and GPI :confused:

[GOTOREROS]

I hope so! It's just so wierd seeing a team with zero chance ranked so high in all the polls and GPI :confused:

Well, the best part is that there are people who have ZERO say in the selection process commenting on what teams are in and out. You can certainly make guesses but to say ZERO chance would mean you actually already knew what the committee was doing, or are on the committee.......are there I-AA committee members here? LOL!

GOTOREROS

[Torero Tradition]

USD's chances area greater than most people would like to think...

[Texcat34]

Keep your heads up Torero fans, I'm pretty sure the rest of the Pioneer League is rooting for you (except when you play us, and you already embarassed us enough to spark our current winning streak). Hopefully you will shock the world, get a bid against all odds, and Davidson will win out and graciously accept your vacated spot in the Gridiron Classic against the NEC champion:bow: . I just found out about this site and it is awesome, I cannot believe there is a message board devoted solely to D-1AA football (that also has great chatter), but I guess according to the majority of these posters the PFL doesn't really belong here and we should go find a DII, DIII, Junior College, or NAIA board. Thanks to most of you for picking on the little guys even though we're exceeding expectations (well, at least Drake and USD are). Go easy on the PFL, we're doing the best we can and improving each year and I'm not sitting here DEMANDING the PFL deserves a bid, but the speculation is intriguing and somewhat justified so let's just see how it plays out without so much over the top criticism (everyone is acting like they are the BCS powers and you are UTAH or TCU a few years ago). 90% of games are scheduled years in advance and the PFL is making strides at scheduling more powerful D-1AA non-conference games. If they do run the table, going undefeated in college football at almost any level is extremely impressive (unless you are playing a horrendous schedule, which USD clearly is not...except for Dixie state...yikes). By the way, I saw USD beat Davidson in person, and their QB Johnson is one of the best QB's at the D-1AA level that I have ever seen or played against. IMO, he could play just about anywhere at the D-1AA scholarship level. USD probably won't/shouldn't make it and I'd hate to see them get waxed on the frozen tundra of Boone, NC but they are an excellent football team and well..."any given saturday...." (except in Boone or Kiev, Montana)

viva D-1AA (Torero fans, you are all welcome at www.davidsoncats.com for some PFL talk anytime)

[Torero Tradition]

Welcome Tex... I would love nothing more for Davidson to go to the Gridiron Classic and represent the PFL. Thanks for the invite to talk PFL football!

[GOTOREROS]

Welcome Tex... I would love nothing more for Drake to go to the Gridiron Classic and represent the PFL. Thanks for the invite to talk PFL football!

I think you meant Davidson goes to the GIC right? Or how does it play out for Davidson to make it IF USD got a bid to the playoffs? When does Davidson play Drake?

GOTOREROS

[ngineer]

Beat UCD and I'll agree.

[Texcat34]

yes, we are praying for Davidson's (not Drake's haha) longshot berth in the Gridiron Classic (some say it's a homeless man's Rose Bowl, I hear Keith Jackson may even call the game and that College Gameday is scouting out hosting their show in Moon Township, PA)...but we have a rabid mean bulldog called Drake standing in our way on Saturday. We shall see....good luck the rest of the way.

[Torero Tradition]

Best of luck with the game... is it available on the radio?

[GSUhooligan]

This whole debate depends on the result of the UC Davis game (if they're still undefeated at that point). With wins over Yale and Davis, they will, IMHO, have more quality wins than Furman who is a lock for the playoffs and Tennessee-Martin and will deserve a playoff spot. If they lose, then the debate is over and USD doesn't get in.

[boonedocks]

I know we go over this in all the other 100 threads but they would have to get out of the davis game correct?? since it is the same weekend as the 1st round?

[GOTOREROS]

I know we go over this in all the other 100 threads but they would have to get out of the davis game correct?? since it is the same weekend as the 1st round?

Yes we have discussed it 100 times already.......let's talk about it more since it is "SAN DIEGO" month now!

GOTOREROS

[Torero Tradition]

I know we go over this in all the other 100 threads but they would have to get out of the davis game correct?? since it is the same weekend as the 1st round?

They are already out of the Davis game... that is confirmed... if they make the playoffs the Davis game is off for the 1st weekend of the playoffs.
The Toreros will be eligible for the playoffs
The Toreros will have enough Division I wins to be eligible
The Toreros will be the PFL champs
The Toreros will be ranked highly in the GPI
The Toreros will be ranked in all polls in the top 20ish
The Toreros will be the leaders in many, many statistical categories for the entire division of I-AA football. They have a quarterback up for the Walter Payton Award....

[boonedocks]

They are already out of the Davis game... that is confirmed... if they make the playoffs the Davis game is off for the 1st weekend of the playoffs.
The Toreros will be eligible for the playoffs
The Toreros will have enough Division I wins to be eligible
The Toreros will be the PFL champs
The Toreros will be ranked highly in the GPI
The Toreros will be ranked in all polls in the top 20ish
The Toreros will be the leaders in many, many statistical categories for the entire division of I-AA football. They have a quarterback up for the Walter Payton Award....


word i didn't know they were def out of that game. That is interesting

[LeopardFan04]

They are already out of the Davis game... that is confirmed... if they make the playoffs the Davis game is off for the 1st weekend of the playoffs.
The Toreros will be eligible for the playoffs
The Toreros will have enough Division I wins to be eligible
The Toreros will be the PFL champs
The Toreros will be ranked highly in the GPI
The Toreros will be ranked in all polls in the top 20ish
The Toreros will be the leaders in many, many statistical categories for the entire division of I-AA football. They have a quarterback up for the Walter Payton Award....

so in other words there's no way they can reschedule/flip flop the Davis game with another game (I realize this requires a lot of logistics juggling by probably more than a few schools)...so if the finish undefeated the committee will be judging them based on a 10-0 record (with 8 DI victories)...Is all of this correct?

[AggiePride]

They are already out of the Davis game... that is confirmed... if they make the playoffs the Davis game is off for the 1st weekend of the playoffs.
The Toreros will be eligible for the playoffs
The Toreros will have enough Division I wins to be eligible
The Toreros will be the PFL champs
The Toreros will be ranked highly in the GPI
The Toreros will be ranked in all polls in the top 20ish
The Toreros will be the leaders in many, many statistical categories for the entire division of I-AA football. They have a quarterback up for the Walter Payton Award....

I like how you present your argument. But...

it totally avoids anything to do with your strength of schedule. Your statement "The Toreros will have enough Division I wins to be eligible" is a weak attempt at hiding your horrible schedule. HORRIBLE.

[Appstate29]

Make a spot for them. Quit trying to deny it.

Sometimes there are teams that havnt played a strong schedule who are unbeaten but really arent very good.

What people dont realize is that sometimes there are teams who really are good, they just havnt been able to prove it.

If there really isnt a spot for this team in the playoffs, you need to expand the playoffs in the future ASAP because this is a playoff caliber team. I truly hope they get their shot


This is the problem Andy, we don't know if they are the team that is unbeaten with a creampuff schedule that isn't worth two nickels or the real deal, this is why sooooo many people harp on the strength of schedule. Should we just go ahead and let them in, thereby omitting a team that put had a tough schedule, lost some games, but is hands down better prepared, just on your say so that they are the real deal?

[*****]

... it totally avoids anything to do with your strength of schedule...this ignores what all the polls and computer systems point out, despite their SoS USD is a top ranked team. This is not like for instance Hampton last year... undefeated yet #16 in the GPI at this time last year. USD is #10 so far this year... Hampton at 11-0 finished the regular season tied for 14th last year with Montana State but got a seed for the playoffs...

[JohnStOnge]

The Toreros will be eligible for the playoffs
The Toreros will have enough Division I wins to be eligible
The Toreros will be the PFL champs
The Toreros will be ranked highly in the GPI
The Toreros will be ranked in all polls in the top 20ish
The Toreros will be the leaders in many, many statistical categories for the entire division of I-AA football. They have a quarterback up for the Walter Payton Award....

None of which will matter if the playoff committee decides it doesn't like the Torreos schedule. I don't agree with that reality. I wish the system for choosing at large teams was "automated" so that the 8 squads would be selected according to some mathematical system agreed upon before the start of the season. And I think that if such a system were in place the Torreos would have an excellent shot.

But it's not like that. It's a largely subjective process that depends on the human opinions of the playoff committee members. I have no idea as to what to expect because I don't ever recall a situation quite like this one. Plus the committee has done some very surprising things in the past...leaving teams out that appear to be more obvious choices than San Diego is this year. Just ask Wofford.

[*****]

Remember that Wofford was 9-3 and had beaten two other SOCON teams (at Appalachian State and at Georgia Southern) that were selected in 2002? That is when the WOOFED terminology came into being.

[MR. CHICKEN]

OTHERAHS.......WHO HAVE WON DUH "WOOFY"..........SOUFF CAROLINA STATE....&.....YOUNGSTOWN STATE...............BUT IN TORERO FAVOR.....NO STATE......FO' SAN DIEGO!.......ER...UH....UMMM....AWK!

[lucchesicourt]

If the Torero's get in with their cream puff schedule, what is to stop other teams from following the same path to the playoffs?

[PurpleandGold]

If the Torero's get in with their cream puff schedule, what is to stop other teams from following the same path to the playoffs?

that's probably the single most logical reason I've heard on any of these threads for keeping them out, with which I agree wholeheartedly. Not to put them down, but I think if any of the top 5 teams played in the PFL, they'd be undefeated too, including wins over San Diego. USD is having a great year and deserve recognition. That recognition is the kind that comes with winning the Gridiron Classic, not going to the playoffs.

[BillLuc1982]

Why dont we just let Davidson in the playoffs too while we are at it.

And Duquesne a few years ago when they were 11-0!

[89Hen]

If the Torero's get in with their cream puff schedule, what is to stop other teams from following the same path to the playoffs?
:nod: :nod: :nod: Over the years the Committee has made it very clear that SOS is VERY important for playoff selection. 8-0 vs a PFL schedule is not good enough. Sorry.

[Aquaman]

that's probably the single most logical reason I've heard on any of these threads for keeping them out, with which I agree wholeheartedly. Not to put them down, but I think if any of the top 5 teams played in the PFL, they'd be undefeated too, including wins over San Diego. USD is having a great year and deserve recognition. That recognition is the kind that comes with winning the Gridiron Classic, not going to the playoffs.

I concur.

[smallcollegefbfan]

Why dont we just let Davidson in the playoffs too while we are at it.

Hell let's expand to 24 teams just so USD, Monmouth, Davidson, Dayton, and CCSU all can get in!

In all seriousness I believe USD should be denied a playoff berth so they see that they either get a stronger schedule or realize that they will always be looked down on. If the field was 24 teams I do think they should be in for sure but with just 16 spots I don't think they do. However, with the Southland, Patriot, and SoCon all down this year there is a SLIGHT chance for them to get in.

[putter]

If San Diego stays undefeated I will personally be interested when the pairings are mentioned. If you did not know anything about the PFL or SOS and just looked at the teams record and GPI, they get in. I realize the other factors do come in but it will be an interesting Sunday if they stay undefeated....:nod:

[MR. CHICKEN]

VIVERITO....THINKS DEY MIGHT DANCE......ALTERED DUH RULES....NOW PIONEER CHAMP....WOULD PLAY #2 CHUMP.........xcoffeex...AWK!

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Too soon to tell if San Diego can get in. I beleive it would take some sort of "thermonuclear" scenario with Cal Poly, Furman and others sitting at 7-4 and a shortage of eight-win teams being considered. If I were San Diego fans I would start paying attention to Holy Cross and Chuck South. I think if it comes down to 8-3 Holy Cross or 11-0 Chuck South vs. 10-0 San Diego getting the last at-large bid, I think the Crusaders or Bucs get it over the Toreros.

[89Hen]

vs. 10-0 San Diego
You mean 8-0, that's how the committee would view them by rule.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

You mean 8-0, that's how the committee would view them by rule.

Right, since they played 2 sub-D-I opponents. But keep in mind also they would have played a 10 game schedule, reneging on their 11th game. That would also play an important part.

[GGASU]

You mean 8-0, that's how the committee would view them by rule.

And Charleston Southern would be 7-0 if they ran the table by rule.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

And Charleston Southern would be 7-0 if they ran the table by rule.

Right. This is why I think Delaware State and Holy Cross may have better shots at the playoffs than most people think. 8-0 and 7-0 will probably have to sit at the back of the line, while Del State and HC could have 8 D-I wins and vault ahead of a ton of "eligible" 7-win teams.

To be absolutely fair, "8-0" San Diego could get consideration ahead of "7-0" Chuck South as a result of that.

[AggiePride]

this ignores what all the polls and computer systems point out, despite their SoS USD is a top ranked team. This is not like for instance Hampton last year... undefeated yet #16 in the GPI at this time last year. USD is #10 so far this year... Hampton at 11-0 finished the regular season tied for 14th last year with Montana State but got a seed for the playoffs...

I only pointed out what he ignored, I was not stating my own opinion of the only criteria that should be used for selection.

[Grizzaholic]

San Diego can come to the ZOO and we will send them home packing!!!:hurray: :hurray: :hurray: :hurray:

[GOTOREROS]

San Diego can come to the ZOO and we will send them home packing!!!:hurray: :hurray: :hurray: :hurray:

Well, it would be a blast. Since we are 1-0 lifetime vs the Griz it seems fair to give you another shot! :D

[DUPFLFan]

Personally, I would love to see SD in the playoffs. So many have talked about how weak non-scholarship football is, here is a chance to see if that is true...:twocents:

Besides, perhaps Drake can go to the Gridiron Classic...:D

[SirApp]

Too soon to tell if San Diego can get in. I beleive it would take some sort of "thermonuclear" scenario with Cal Poly, Furman and others sitting at 7-4 and a shortage of eight-win teams being considered. If I were San Diego fans I would start paying attention to Holy Cross and Chuck South. I think if it comes down to 8-3 Holy Cross or 11-0 Chuck South vs. 10-0 San Diego getting the last at-large bid, I think the Crusaders or Bucs get it over the Toreros.

This is also the scenario I have for San Diego getting a play-off bid. I kinda believe both those teams lose again (Furman and Cal Poly), along with Holy Cross and Chuck South. Also, the Gateway is so close as far as the top 5 teams, some of them might beat each other up out of playoff contention. But I do agree, 8-2 Delaware St. team gets a bid over an 8-0 San Diego team. Cannot forget about a 9-2 Coastal team as well.

First thing first tho. San Diego has to win out (which they should).

[HensRock]

Too soon to tell if San Diego can get in.

September was not too soon to tell if they can get in. One look at their schedule back then told the story.


Listen, I've been following the playoff selection for over 20 years now. There is NO WAY that San Diego will make the playoffs. NONE. ZERO. NADA. I thnk people have tried to be nice to these USD folks, but they just don't seem to get it. So I'm sorry to be blunt, but the far more cruel thing for me to do would be to blow sunshine up your backsides and get your hopes up only to be crushed on Selection Sunday. Then the cries of injustice will ring out over the boards. "San Diego - Woofed"!

Well, in my opinion, San Diego is not going to be Woofed. They are simply not going to be selected, nor do they deserve to be. There are PLENTY of I-AA teams that are not going to the playoffs this season that would be undefeated, highly ranked, and at the top of almost every NCAA statistical category with that weak schedule - my favorite team included. You don't hear anyone asking why Delaware isn't going to the playoffs do you? Why isn't Georgia Southern going to the playoffs?

The real injustice is NDSU not being selected. Do you hear any of them whining? NO! They know they are not eligible and it's a damn shame that they aren't because they are a very good I-AA football team and have PROVEN it on the field this season!

Just like NDSU, USD is not eligible for the playoffs this year. They became ineligible the minute they put that schedule together. It's bit more subjective, but ineligble none the less.

[GOTOREROS]

September was not too soon to tell if they can get in. One look at their schedule back then told the story.


Listen, I've been following the playoff selection for over 20 years now. There is NO WAY that San Diego will make the playoffs. NONE. ZERO. NADA. I thnk people have tried to be nice to these USD folks, but they just don't seem to get it. So I'm sorry to be blunt, but the far more cruel thing for me to do would be to blow sunshine up your backsides and get your hopes up only to be crushed on Selection Sunday. Then the cries of injustice will ring out over the boards. "San Diego - Woofed"!

Well, in my opinion, San Diego is not going to be Woofed. They are simply not going to be selected, nor do they deserve to be. There are PLENTY of I-AA teams that are not going to the playoffs this season that would be undefeated, highly ranked, and at the top of almost every NCAA statistical category with that weak schedule - my favorite team included. You don't hear anyone asking why Delaware isn't going to the playoffs do you? Why isn't Georgia Southern going to the playoffs?

The real injustice is NDSU not being selected. Do you hear any of them whining? NO! They know they are not eligible and it's a damn shame that they aren't because they are a very good I-AA football team and have PROVEN it on the field this season!

Just like NDSU, USD is not eligible for the playoffs this year. They became ineligible the minute they put that schedule together. It's bit more subjective, but ineligble none the less.

Well you are certainly entitled to your opinon. Thanks for sharing, good luck this weekend.

[Khan4Cats]

Here's a question I have regarding this debate as I am new to this discussion. What was Alcorn's (that was McNair's school right?) GPI rank or even poll ranking when they got into the playoffs when McNair was in the Heisman running. I wasn't following closely then but I seem to recall there being debate about Alcorn's worthiness.

[Appstate29]

Personally, I would love to see SD in the playoffs. So many have talked about how weak non-scholarship football is, here is a chance to see if that is true...:twocents:

Besides, perhaps Drake can go to the Gridiron Classic...:D

I personally have not seen anyone say that non-scholly is weak, as much as the SCHEDULE of non-schollys are weak.

[Black and Gold Express]

Again, I hope they get in.

I hope San Diego gets in, gets sent to Missoula or Boone, gets their butts kicked up one side and down the other, and lets everyone in the nation see how 99% of us have been right all along, and let those crybaby fans from San Diego digest the truth of their team and schedule.

Actions speak loudest, and with relatively few teams that have legitimate chances at the title, why not use one spot to make an example of these guys.

[GOTOREROS]

Again, I hope they get in.

I hope San Diego gets in, gets sent to Missoula or Boone, gets their butts kicked up one side and down the other, and lets everyone in the nation see how 99% of us have been right all along, and let those crybaby fans from San Diego digest the truth of their team and schedule.

Actions speak loudest, and with relatively few teams that have legitimate chances at the title, why not use one spot to make an example of these guys.

Yes - send us to Montana. That way they can even the all-time series vs. San Diego as they are 0-1 lifetime against the Toreros. :D

[AggiePride]

Again, I hope they get in.

I hope San Diego gets in, gets sent to Missoula or Boone, gets their butts kicked up one side and down the other, and lets everyone in the nation see how 99% of us have been right all along, and let those crybaby fans from San Diego digest the truth of their team and schedule.

Actions speak loudest, and with relatively few teams that have legitimate chances at the title, why not use one spot to make an example of these guys.

Let Davis have it's shot at them on the 25th, let a team with adequate criteria take the spot, and not set a precedent that would be very bad for I-AA.

[GOTOREROS]

Let Davis have it's shot at them on the 25th, let a team with adequate criteria take the spot, and not set a precedent that would be very bad for I-AA.

So noted.

[BeauFoster]

Yes - send us to Montana. That way they can even the all-time series vs. San Diego as they are 0-1 lifetime against the Toreros. :D


For my own edification, what year did USD beat Montana?

[GOTOREROS]

For my own edification, what year did USD beat Montana?


I have been waiting for a Griz fan to ask that question - :D . The year was 1958 and USD beat Montana 24-13. It was a long time ago, but a fact nonetheless....:nod:

[Torero Tradition]

But we have never beaten Montana State in three tries

[OrneryAggie]

They are already out of the Davis game... that is confirmed... if they make the playoffs the Davis game is off for the 1st weekend of the playoffs.

The weird part about this is UCD, who are ineligible for the playoffs, will be the ones sitting around on selection sunday to see if they get to play another game. USD knows they're playing either way.

I've been thinking UCD-USD would be a game the Ags would lose, they don't defend good passing teams well. But if the Ags treat it like a playoff game, the only one any of the players have had because of the transition, and USD feels snubbed I think that definitely plays into UCD's favor.

[lucchesicourt]

The Ags have been susceptible to the pass because we have been sitting back playing a conservative pass defense. When UCD plays a passing team we need to blitz more. The best way to defend the pass is to put pressure on the QB, and do it quickly.

[GOTOREROS]

The Ags have been susceptible to the pass because we have been sitting back playing a conservative pass defense. When UCD plays a passing team we need to blitz more. The best way to defend the pass is to put pressure on the QB, and do it quickly.

Well, Josh Johnson isn't easy to contain. While you could make the argument that most of the USD players are not the caliber of elite I-AA athletes, Johnson could EASILY play on most I-AA teams and perhaps even a I-A team or two. I really hope we play you guys so you and others can see how good Josh is.

[Stang Fever]

Well, Josh Johnson isn't easy to contain. While you could make the argument that most of the USD players are not the caliber of elite I-AA athletes, Johnson could EASILY play on most I-AA teams and perhaps even a I-A team or two. I really hope we play you guys so you and others can see how good Josh is.


How do you judge how good someone is. SO the 12th grader who beats up on the little freshmen should be considered the schools best fighter? do you judge how good someone is best on who they have played are by what they do to over matched teams?

[lucchesicourt]

Jon Grant is every bit as good as Josh, only he has played against elite teams while Josh has not. Grant is also listed as a top QB in 1AA and has potential (not that he will) to play on Sundays. SDSU gave Grant underneath, and was able to put pressure on him with THEIR front four. UCD's front four against a lesser offensive line has the opportunity to get to Josh, ask Stanford. Josh is only as good as his offensive line contains the defensive push. The question is, can USD's offensive line hold back the Ags defensive line. I personally think NOT.

[lucchesicourt]

In case USD fans haven't noticed Grant too is on the Payton list, so if you give him time like Josh has gotten he too will have success.

[*****]

I have seen Josh play and he is a real deal. Kinda like a Michael Vick but with a much better arm. Bigtime player.

[GOTOREROS]

I have seen Josh play and he is a real deal. Kinda like a Michael Vick but with a much better arm. Bigtime player.

Thanks Ralph. I will not say one word about any of our other players but Josh Johnson is a special player.

[lucchesicourt]

I believe even a great QB will not fair well against a excellent pass rush. If the receivers fail to get open before the rush comes it does not matter. However, assuming his "O" line is as good as NDSU, I believe he may put up huge numbers, but I don't see his "O" line being of that caliber. The best way to stop a great QB is by getting to him before a receiver can make his cut.

[lucchesicourt]

I am NOT disregarding Josh's talent, but it takes teamwork to click. If you can disrupt this, anything can happen.

[Torero Tradition]

Josh Johnson has a similar style to Vince Young. He can scramble if facing a rush...

[GOTOREROS]

I am not saying that Josh Johnson is going to win the Payton or Heisman. What I said was that teams will have a tough time containing Johnson no matter who they are. The guy is a freak athlete - as Ralph said he is a young version of Vick with a much better arm. Ask Yale when he broke six tackles on a 50 plus yard TD run. I realize many are skeptical of Josh, but evetnually whether it is this year or down the road on Sundays the guy will make you a believer.

Also, I didn't say he would thorw for 400 yards at Davis or Poly, or Montana. Why is it so hard believe he is one of the best I-AA players out there. He is up for major awards - Payton etc.

[Torero Tradition]

San Diego also has the top ranked offense in all of I-AA football

[cosmo here]

San Diego also has the top ranked offense in all of I-AA football

Good point :rolleyes: so would 40 or 50 other schools if they played YOUR SCHEDULE.

[Torero Tradition]

USD would be undefeated if they played your schedule too... these arguements are mute because you will never know...

[cosmo here]

USD would be undefeated if they played your schedule too... these arguements are mute because you will never know...

yeah, you would beat Penn, at Princeton, Yale and at Harvard in consecutive games, to go with Colgate and Lehigh . .

[Stang Fever]

why doesn't the Yale win convince you... it was at there place...
Simple...its the only win against someone worth a fart. You talk about Yale like they are a National Power or something. like you just took down App st., Montana, etc. Yes Yale is putting together a pretty good season. So if Yale is a 10 (out of a 1-10 scale) what the heck number would you give Azusa Pacific, Dixie St. etc I hope nothing higher then a 4. Yes You are blowing all the cup cakes out....imagine if you didnt. I would pray that you were good enough to blow these teams out. is USD good enough to beat some top teams. maybe, but your coach, your Ad had how many months to replace Azusa Pacific, Dixie St with: Sac St., Southern Utah, Weber St, Texas St, Eastern Washington, even Savannah St. (all are at the bottom of there conference) and each of these teams would more then likely be undefeated against those teams you play, except YALE


why doesn't all our rankings convince you we can play?
Another easy answer. If your best football player in high school went and played awhole season against the JV teams in there league and had out of these world numbers, does that mean he is the best player in the country. No. okay. say a Heavy Weight boxer went down and played against all the middle weights out there and knocked each and everyone of them out. does that mean he should get a title shot. NO

So putting up great numbers against unequal opponents does not mean anything to anyone. The team is good no doubt about it. *against that level of comp.
how are we ranked that high?

I would not have you ranked so high. As more teams step up you will be leaped frogged.

Don't the stats tell you anything?
Yes they do tell you a lot about a team. There is a reason why GSU quarterback never won the walter payton award. Those were all padded stats which came in all blow out games against far unequal talent. When every game you play in is a blow out it says one of two things, either the teams you play are really sorry, or you are playing teams far below your level. Which means you should either replace those teams from your schedule or be glad you are not playing better teams.

Have you even seen some of the players on the USD team or their coaching staff...

NO I have not. Have you seen UNI play, have you seen Portland St play, have you seen Southern Illionios play. I judge you by your wins on quality teams. the main point being QUALITY VICTORIES. YALE IS THE ONLY ONE.

this team is talented and well coached.

[Torero Tradition]

you should probably focus on montana and not losing your spot to USD

[lucchesicourt]

Josh is obviously an unbelievable talent, however it is still a TEAM game. I have seen great QB's contained by very good defenses. I have seen the likes of Ken O'Brien, Mark Grieb, Khari Jones,JT O'Sullivan, and many others somewhat contained by good defenses. Is Josh better than these guys, I can't say. However, I can tell you, these guys were contained by some defenses at the D2 level, and the D1AA caliber "D"'s are obviously better than those.

[Torero Tradition]

I think USD is an all around solid team, one that is playoff caliber. They don't rest there hopes on a quarterback.

[cosmo here]

I think USD is an all around solid team, one that is playoff caliber. They don't rest there hopes on a quarterback.

then prove it. beat UC Davis.

[BisonBacker]

I think USD is an all around solid team, one that is playoff caliber. They don't rest there hopes on a quarterback.
Of course your opinion would be completely unbiased xidiotx

[Torero Tradition]

then prove it. beat UC Davis.

If not selected for the playoffs, they will have their chance... just unfortunate Davis is turning into a .500 team. People will consider it another cream puff xlolx

[cosmo here]

If not selected for the playoffs, they will have their chance... just unfortunate Davis is turning into a .500 team. People will consider it another cream puff xlolx

Yeah, they really suck . . their losses are at TCU, at Youngstown State, at Cal Poly, and at South Dakota State - all highly regarded teams.

[Torero Tradition]

hmmm... if they lose to USD will the Toreros then become a highly regarded team?

[cosmo here]

hmmm... if they lose to USD will the Toreros then become a highly regarded team?

USD is already well-regarded, drop your persecution complex. that doesn't mean they should be in the playoffs, since they haven't proven anything yet.

one win, or loss, does not a season make, when your season schedule is made up of Yale, one NAIA, one DII and seven PFL schools, to go with UC Davis.

[GGASU]

If Lehigh wins on Saturday they will have the inside track to the Patriot league's autobid.

Since they lost to Yale, a team that San Diego destroyed, maybe we should be giving the autobid to the Pioneer League instead. :thumbsup:

[lucchesicourt]

Yeah, UCD does suck, I am sure if USD had played the same schedule as the Ags, they would have out scored all the teams on the schedule by at least 40, considering USD's prolific offense and great defense.

[Whats a Torero]

I think USD is an all around solid team, one that is playoff caliber. They don't rest there hopes on a quarterback.
USD has gone from a nice little story to a royal pain in the backside for AGS. As a USD Alum, I can appreciate your undying support for USD's playoff campaign, but these type of biased statements have no merit.

A couple weeks ago, a fellow Torero asked the question "how many non-scholarship schools have ever made the playoffs"....and was subsequently thrashed by others on AGS for thinking USD WAS going to make the playoffs. Apparently if you ask the question, it means you believe its going to happen. I was disappointed at the heat USD fans (the few that there are on AGS) were taking for simply asking a question. Now......I'm not so sure they weren't right in putting us in our place. We certainly our making a case for them to smack us around. Maybe thats where you should stay - on the smack board.

[Guard Dawg]

yeah, tell those non-scholly teams to quit getting all the press... i hate it they are making a serious run at the playoffs... it's quite annoying
sorry to hear you are a USD alum, what a waste of $