JMU and Conference Realignment

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Reprinted from Flamefans.com:

https://www.flamefans.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=15624&start=8050



Oldduke on JMU CSN Board wrote:This was at the end of a long email from Pres. Alger to JMU employees titled "Spring Update" ...


Conference Affiliation Discussions: The topic of athletics conference membership continues to be on the minds of many of our constituents. As we plot our course through a constantly shifting landscape, we remain committed to thoughtful and open communication.

We are well aware of the changing scene within our conference as well as nationally. In response, we have engaged in a rigorous analysis of our athletic profile within the context of our strategic planning process. This process, resulting in The Madison Plan, confirmed our institutional core values: Academic Quality, Community, Diversity, Excellence, Integrity and Student Focus. Further, we determined that any new conference membership opportunity must align with the following guiding principles and criteria: academic profile and fit, university culture, student and student-athlete welfare, financial impact and sustainability, competitive balance, and geographic footprint. Feedback received from the JMU community and its many constituencies through extensive and thoughtful dialogue supports these values and principles, and we will use them as criteria for all future decisions, including those involving athletics.

Consistent with these values and principles and the ongoing issue of conference alignment, JMU will not pursue or accept an invitation from a conference that does not meet our criteria. If we do receive an offer consistent with our established values, we are prepared to review it and make a recommendation to the Board of Visitors. This process is ongoing and will require continued support on the part of the university, students, faculty, staff, coaches, alumni, and fans.

In the meantime, we are enjoying the close of our spring sports season and looking forward to an exciting new year in 2014-15 across our entire athletics program.

As you can tell, it has been an eventful year at JMU. JMU is clearly on the move, and we are excited about the future as we continue to dream big together. Thank you all for being part of the JMU community!

Jon Alger
President



If legitimate ... Wow!

Going down the checklist:

Sun Belt: Academic Profile: No, Financial Sustainability: No, Geographic Footprint: No
AAC: Academic Profile: Maybe, Financial Sustainability: Yes: Geographic Footprint: No
C-USA: Academic Profile: Maybe, Financial Sustainability: Yes: Geographic Footprint: Yes

More to the point, though, JMU isn't SEARCHING for a conference, they are letting a conference COME TO THEM. This clarifies, IMO, JMU's intentions and strategy for the next three months at least.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

http://www.breezejmu.org/sports/article_14617372-9cce-11e2-bbcc-0019bb30f31a.html


Could this be a message from God, to JMU, to join the Sun Belt? We are, don’t forget, talking about the Bible Belt.

Unfortunately, it is my firm theological belief that, even in Ordinary Time, God doesn’t care where JMU plays football. While the Sun Belt holds an uber-sexy annual matchup with Appalachian State (go Google “Rodney Landers,” kids) and a move to FBS could instantly renew the potential juggernaut that is the Old Dominion-JMU Royal Rumble, it’s probably not the right conference for JMU academically, culturally or geographically.

For example, the vast majority of JMU alumni live north of the North Carolina-Virginia border up into New England. Why would we play in a football conference that exists almost solely south of that border?


Interesting that this letter from JMU's pres above came out a few weeks after this editorial in the school newspaper.

[superman7515]

The vibe from JMU's administration has been steady the entire time, they feel they are better, both academically and athletically, than the Sun Belt and aren't interested in settling.

[wmtribe1693]

The vibe from JMU's administration has been steady the entire time, they feel they are better, both academically and athletically, than the Sun Belt and aren't interested in settling.

Correct. JMU's admin is one of few who aren't interested in going to the FBS for the sake of moving. Clearly, they understand the implications of rushing to "greener" pastures.

[Sader87]

I still believe they go FBS somewhere soon though. You don't build the kind of facility they did and remain in what is becoming a more and more private school laden FCS.

[IBleedYellow]

Correct. JMU's admin is one of few who aren't interested in going to the FBS for the sake of moving. Clearly, they understand the implications of rushing to "greener" pastures.

Honestly, this is so true. But what happens when FBS gets locked because all conferences are full? Oh well. I praise JMU's administration for realizing that not every FBS conference is a step up, no matter what some people will think.

[Apphole]

Their fans are furious, and rightly so. I'll be very interested to see how big of a hit their donations ultimately take in the fall out of this short-sighted leadership.

http://csnbbs.com/thread-686200.html

The irony is that this decision was made under the guise of saving money. Now they're hemorrhaging donors.

[JMUNJ08]

Their fans are furious, and rightly so. I'll be very interested to see how big of a hit their donations ultimately take in the fall out of this short-sighted leadership.

http://csnbbs.com/thread-686200.html

The irony is that this decision was made under the guise of saving money. Now they're hemorrhaging donors.

To effectively 'hemorrage' donors, we would need to have a decent amount to begin with. Just because we have a few vocal posters, doesn't mean everyone isn't donating at similar/ larger rates. Our 'give-back' rate is attrocious to begin with and I do not think a move to FBS would DRASTICALLY change that (though there surely would be an uptick with the right move)

[IBleedYellow]

It has to be an east coast thing, but I swear you guys talk about FBS like your dicksize.

[superman7515]

It has to be an east coast thing, but I swear you guys talk about FBS like your dicksize.


Nah, it's a Southern thing. Easterners are the least likely group in the nation to like college football at all (click to enlarge).

18930

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Personally, I think JMU fits in with the MAC. Marshall got their FBS legs in that conference, as did UCF iirc. There's some really good schools in it like Miami(OH) and Buffalo, as well a few really solid ones like Ohio, CMU, WMU, etc. The travel would be minimal which would allow some of the Duke fans to see the team play on the road. The Eastern Ohio schools of the MAC were a "reasonable" reachable distance when I lived in Northeast PA. I did Kent State in a day when Temple played out there. It would be similar travel for JMU imo. I never understood why Lehigh and Youngstown have never met.....

Long term, JMU would be a solid candidate for the AAC. I like their academic profile better than ODU in terms of "newbies". Marshall and or/UMass likely gets the next call imo.

[citdog]

I never understood why Lehigh and Youngstown have never met....


le high would lose 62-7 that's why.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Their fans are furious, and rightly so. I'll be very interested to see how big of a hit their donations ultimately take in the fall out of this short-sighted leadership.

http://csnbbs.com/thread-686200.html

The irony is that this decision was made under the guise of saving money. Now they're hemorrhaging donors.

Odd how the tables turn and now you know more than those making the decisions. The fact that you are trying to say some posters constitute the attitude of the base is sort of comical as well.

App's own move up study said the SBC wasn't doable. I know, things have changed now and it is doable and that razor thin margin for a change in the moniker is now feasible.

Sorry man but the SBC is a strong FCS conference with a different set of initials and some ain't hyped on the price of initials.

[IBleedYellow]

Odd how the tables turn and now you know more than those making the decisions. The fact that you are trying to say some posters constitute the attitude of the base is sort of comical as well.

App's own move up study said the SBC wasn't doable. I know, things have changed now and it is doable and that razor thin margin for a change in the moniker is now feasible.

Sorry man but the SBC is a strong FCS conference with a different set of initials and some ain't hyped on the price of initials.

Bolding this for re-iteration. This is true, but their ability to move up is no longer hindered due to the fact they can now move conferences.

Oh wait, they'st still need an invite to any conference anyway.

[Saint3333]

App's own move up study said the SBC wasn't doable. I know, things have changed now and it is doable and that razor thin margin for a change in the moniker is now feasible.




I've read it many times. Link to where it stated this?

[citdog]

I've read it many times. Link to where it stated this?

perhaps you can read about it on an 'fbs' board?

[ursus arctos horribilis]

I've read it many times. Link to where it stated this?

I'm not going and getting links for you. I read it in an article posted here by one of the App's a couple years back. I think it was in the thread about the possible CUSA invite. For some reason I think it might have been posted by skjellyfetti but am not sure aobut that.

[Saint3333]

Interesting...

Maybe a message board poster stated that, but the feasibility study didn't say that, good try. I've got a copy if you'd like to read it versus posting what it may or may not state.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Interesting...

Maybe a message board poster stated that, but the feasibility study didn't say that, good try. I've got a copy if you'd like to read it versus posting what it may or may not state.

Cobb said it and I don't need to re-read the study a couple years after the fact. There was a link and I don't believe I said it was to the study did I?

It wasn't a posters word taken on the matter it was an interview that Cobb said this in.

Are you in need of a win Saint? I ain't searching for you so if you need one because I'm not grabbing that for you then go ahead and chalk this one up for yourself.

Regardless, it was said.

[Saint3333]

I'm in need of the facts, I have them, as I was pretty close to situation the 18 months up until we announced the move.

Scroll up and reread your post, you said the Sun Belt wasn't doable in the study. My point is that is a false statement, the study said CUSA, MAC, and SBC were all doable and better options than remaining in the SoCon.

The statement you are looking for occurred November 2011, I was sitting in Char Bar in Boone at a Yosef Advisory Board meeting when Cobb said CUSA, not the SBC was the target. We wanted to join a conference with ECU. This meeting occurred prior to the major shake up and trickle down effect as well. The CFB landscape changed and what CUSA was looking for did as well.

I understand your position, but try to get the story right.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

I'm in need of the facts, I have them, as I was pretty close to situation the 18 months up until we announced the move.

Scroll up and reread your post, you said the Sun Belt wasn't doable in the study. My point is that is a false statement, the study said CUSA, MAC, and SBC were all doable and better options than remaining in the SoCon.

The statement you are looking for occurred November 2011, I was sitting in Char Bar in Boone at a Yosef Advisory Board meeting when Cobb said CUSA, not the SBC was the target. We wanted to join a conference with ECU. This meeting occurred prior to the major shake up and trickle down effect as well. The CFB landscape changed and what CUSA was looking for did as well.

I understand your position, but try to get the story right.

Ok, I mistakenly figured the comment was made due to the revealings o the study. I guess I figured the study states certain criteria and judgments are made off of that but apparently that was an incorrect assumption.

Got it.
Good win tiger.xthumbsupx

[Sandlapper Spike]

My opinion, which is only that and nothing more, is that CUSA is not interested in expanding right now (though its commissioner might be more receptive to the idea than his schools are), and the MAC will only expand if it can add a pair of schools, i.e. JMU and perhaps Delaware.

[cmaxwellgsu]

JMU did what was best for JMU like us and App did. I'm sure they did their due diligence and decided staying put works for them. They would have been the northeast corner of the conference, and would have been getting students from a very different area from the Sun Belt. While I'd love for us to be in a conference with the Dukes, every school picks their home. Good luck JMU!

[citdog]

Are you in need of a win Saint?




You've seen how BAD app football has been lately..........saint is looking for ANY kind of a win.

[Saint3333]

Citdog, we found a couple wins last weekend vs. Citadel. Just like Citadel vs. App in football upsets happen.

[superman7515]

http://hamptonroads.com/2014/04/sun-belt-commish-says-jmu-will-remain-caa


James Madison apparently won't join Old Dominion in the Football Bowl Subdivision anytime soon.
The Harrisonburg school will remain in the Colonial Athletic Association and will not pursue membership in the Sun Belt Conference, the commissioner of that league, Karl Benson, told the Orlando Sentinel this week. The Sun Belt is the only FBS league that is considering expansion.

"It appears they made a decision to stay FCS," Benson said.

Athletic director Jeff Bourne, though, told the Harrisonburg News-Record on Wednesday afternoon that "no decision" on JMU's future has been made and that "dialogues" continue.

NCAA rules dictate that a Football Championship Subdivision school must join an FBS conference in order to move up, and JMU so far hasn't found one to its liking.

Last October, Carr Sports Consulting released a study for JMU that indicated the school was "well-positioned" for a move to FBS. ODU athletic director Wood Selig lobbied Conference USA officials on behalf of JMU, but the league has no interest in expansion, commissioner Britton Banowsky said.

JMU also had talks with the Mid-American Conference. But after the University of Massachusetts announced it would leave the MAC in 2015, reducing the league to 12 members, conference officials have said they have no desire to expand.

JMU president Jonathan Alger released a statement saying, in part, the school will be selective if it chooses to move up. "JMU will not pursue or accept an invitation from a conference that does not meet our criteria," Alger wrote on JMU's website.

That could open the door for Liberty University, which announced more than a year ago that it wants to join an FBS conference. Benson told CBSSports.com that Liberty has been "on our radar screen and will continue to be on our radar."

[UNHWildcat18]

http://hamptonroads.com/2014/04/sun-belt-commish-says-jmu-will-remain-caa


Good for JMU C-USA or nothing. Still wish CAA dumped CofC, Elon, and UNCW (put them into soconn where they belong) and just made a 16 team conference with AE....edgy edgy...............Still would have 11 for football.

[mountaineer in Cane Land]

at this moment the JMU administration feels pretty confident about their decision, personally, I'm not entirely sure the administration really wants to move up, whether its the SBC, MAC, or USA. I think the SBC gave them a convenient excuse that the SBC was a poor fit academically, and in the amount of travel involved. If the offer to join the MAC/USA comes in the next couple of years, I guess we will find out how serious they are about moving up or staying put.

[The Cats]

Still wish CAA dumped CofC, Elon, and UNCW (put them into soconn where they belong)


CoC and Elon burned that bridge.

The CAA wanted them, now they got to live with them. However, the Big South is an option for them.

[Tribal]

Good for JMU C-USA or nothing. Still wish CAA dumped CofC, Elon, and UNCW (put them into soconn where they belong) and just made a 16 team conference with AE....edgy edgy...............Still would have 11 for football.

Why do you care about CoC, Elon, and UNCW being in the CAA? UNH, as you are aware, isn't a CAA member.

And, the CAA needed to expand its southern base after losing 4 programs in VA and GA.

[superman7515]

http://www.dailyprogress.com/sports/expansion-talk-has-jmu-football-eyeing-jump-to-fbs/article_ee0056a0-52b7-11e6-a0db-3f0d594ee481.html


The Colonial Athletic Association expanded to a 12-team football conference with the 2014 addition of Elon, and a dozen is where the league has stayed since. At today’s CAA media day in Baltimore, expansion likely will surface as a topic of conversation, but not CAA expansion.

Last week’s confirmation from the Big 12 Conference that it is exploring expansion could eventually cause a trickle-down effect that might impact James Madison of the CAA. An FBS opening may become available and attractive to the Dukes, who are in the FCS.

Candidates to join the Big 12, if it expands the current 10-school arrangement, include Houston, Cincinnati, Connecticut, Memphis and Central Florida, members of the American Athletic Conference. Attrition in the AAC would create openings in that league, and perhaps in Conference USA if subsequent moves occurred.

Old Dominion, Marshall and Charlotte belong to C-USA, which may be an FBS league of interest to JMU, now a 20,000-student school. Madison had 10,000 students in 1988, and 5,000 in 1972.

“I do think [JMU] is prepared if the right opportunity presents itself. But it’s going to be an institutional decision and not necessarily a football-only decision,” first-year Madison coach Mike Houston said at a June camp for Dukes’ prospects at Huguenot High...

[Laker]

If the Big 12 adds four, it will ripple down to D2. There are few schools who would like to move to FCS but need an invitation.

[RootinFerDukes]

Don't kid yourself, we're not going anywhere. There's not even a guarantee the big 12 will expand. ESPN and Fox are pushing back saying they don't like any of their expansion candidates so don't bother.

[SUUTbird]

Don't kid yourself, we're not going anywhere. There's not even a guarantee the big 12 will expand. ESPN and Fox are pushing back saying they don't like any of their expansion candidates so don't bother.

I disagree with this, everything I have heard and seen from multiple sources is that the Big 12 will expand, and they plan to announce it before the 2016 season. BYU is apparently one of the top candidates they are looking at as multiple articles have their ad talking about negotiations with the conference.

[RootinFerDukes]

That may be, but cbs reported ESPN and I think fox weren't happy about any additions they're proposing and I'm pretty sure tv networks get the final say on who gets added to a P5 conference.
They're the $$$ and thus they're the power.

[NY Crusader 2010]

I disagree with this, everything I have heard and seen from multiple sources is that the Big 12 will expand, and they plan to announce it before the 2016 season. BYU is apparently one of the top candidates they are looking at as multiple articles have their ad talking about negotiations with the conference.

I think the Big12 will DEFINITELY expand but am also of the opinion that we need to "pump the brakes" a bit when it comes to speculation that the resulting shakeup will trickle down to the FCS level. My guess is that they start by adding two (BYU and Cincinnati). In that case all that would happen is that the AAC would poach one school from CUSA (Rice or Marshall) and we could all call it a day.

[UNHWildcat18]

I smell AE football! Lol in all seriousness if they have a plan to do the other side of the stadium and the right schools move, I could see a C-USA invite. Probably a few years away though. A lot of ????'s will need to be answered though.

[Sandlapper Spike]

That may be, but cbs reported ESPN and I think fox weren't happy about any additions they're proposing and I'm pretty sure tv networks get the final say on who gets added to a P5 conference.
They're the $$$ and thus they're the power.

ESPN and Fox are very unhappy, but at this point I'm not sure that matters a whole lot. They signed a contract, and now they're going to have to live with it, because the Big XII wants more money now and will worry about the future some other decade.

I think they're going to add four teams, and I suspect the announcement will take place by no later than the end of September. There will definitely be a ripple effect for the AAC/CUSA, and maybe the Sun Belt and Mountain West. I'm not sure that it would lead to D2 teams moving up to FCS, though.

[smilo]

ESPN and Fox are very unhappy, but at this point I'm not sure that matters a whole lot. They signed a contract, and now they're going to have to live with it, because the Big XII wants more money now and will worry about the future some other decade.

I think they're going to add four teams, and I suspect the announcement will take place by no later than the end of September. There will definitely be a ripple effect for the AAC/CUSA, and maybe the Sun Belt and Mountain West. I'm not sure that it would lead to D2 teams moving up to FCS, though.

I'm now under the impression that two teams could lead to a ripple while 4 might not. If they take Cincinnati and Houston/BYU. The American can take ODU (the only team with a large enough budget to compete) and I guess UMass if necessary. That leaves C-USA with an odd number of teams (13). However, if three American teams are taken (or the 2nd team in Scenario 1 is not UMass but Rice or USM or whoever), then C-USA will almost certainly be pleased with 12 teams - overjoyed that somebody left (so everyone gets a bit more money) and the divisions are even! 12 in the American. 12 in the MW. 12 in C-USA. And Sun Belt is fine at 10 - for now. I wish it were not so, but that's how we are probably stuck for awhile.

I mean, there are dream scenarios of instability, but I won't get into the 1% chance of excitement and dreams of multiple FCS teams moving. But yes, if we're talking about D2, then it's even less than 1%.

[Anthony215]

IF JMU moved up to CUSA or even possibly the AAC I think they'd be fairly competitive rather quickly once they increased their scholarship funding to the full 85 allotment. Good recruiting area and they were already getting FBS quality recruits as a CAA member due to their tradition and with the recent renovations of their stadium I think they'd be in good position to succeed on the field in either conference.

[RootinFerDukes]

IF ODU left CUSA, JMU's chances of going to CUSA if invited just went from 100% to 20% depending on who else remains. ODU is in a no lose situation. They either go to the AAC and further advance themselves or they stay behind in CUSA and probably get an instant rival in JMU to have an annual matchup to rival UVA/VT as the #2 go to cfb game in VA each season.

[DoWe]

JMU will always be about this. No Need For Them = No Invite.

[RootinFerDukes]

JMU will always be about this. No Need For Them = No Invite.

You do realize that a school has to indicate that they will accept an invite before an "official" invite comes, right?
We've had opportunities with many G5 conferences over the past decade but our problem is we have had two consecutive presidents who are too afraid to pull the trigger.
The sun belt commissioner admitted publicly to courting us and that we turned them down. Yeah... We didn't have an invite.

[DFW HOYA]

They either go to the AAC and further advance themselves or they stay behind in CUSA and probably get an instant rival in JMU to have an annual matchup to rival UVA/VT as the #2 go to cfb game in VA each season.

What about Richmond-W&M?

[RootinFerDukes]

What about Richmond-W&M?

A great and historic rivalry but fbs will likely trump Fcs at the end of the day to most fans. Wm vs UR aren't usually always sell outs, although I admit I don't always pay attention to their ticket sales announcements. It's only put on a regional network and barely mentioned by most media in the state.
It's important, but only to UR, WM and most CAA fans.

[tribe_pride]

A great and historic rivalry but fbs will likely trump Fcs at the end of the day to most fans. Wm vs UR aren't usually always sell outs, although I admit I don't always pay attention to their ticket sales announcements. It's only put on a regional network and barely mentioned by most media in the state.
It's important, but only to UR, WM and most CAA fans.

Not going to argue who follows it or who will have the bigger rivalry but do you really think that 2 G5 teams' rivalry is going to be followed by more than ODU, JMU and maybe their conference fans or put on more than a regional network? Think I saw on the ODU board they are having trouble getting more than a couple games put on tv and when I look, it is the same amount of games as W&M will have this year (all theirs being televised on ASN + 1 on ESPN3 - W&M mix of ASN and CSN +1 on ESPN3). Amusingly enough both W&M and ODU games on ESPN3 are @NC State.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Not going to argue who follows it or who will have the bigger rivalry but do you really think that 2 G5 teams' rivalry is going to be followed by more than ODU, JMU and maybe their conference fans or put on more than a regional network? Think I saw on the ODU board they are having trouble getting more than a couple games put on tv and when I look, it is the same amount of games as W&M will have this year (all theirs being televised on ASN + 1 on ESPN3 - W&M mix of ASN and CSN +1 on ESPN3). Amusingly enough both W&M and ODU games on ESPN3 are @NC State.

I was thinking the same thing when I read the reply. Your schools care, and primarily that is it.

Personally though, I love those games if they are FCS and will seek them out if I can.

[RootinFerDukes]

you're right. it probably will only be on the same regional networks CAA games are on. It'll draw marginally more viewership compared to a CAA game.

That argument can be applied to literally every football game not played by a P5 school.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

you're right. it probably will only be on the same regional networks CAA games are on. It'll draw marginally more viewership compared to a CAA game.

That argument can be applied to literally every football game not played by a P5 school.

Yes, they are the same. I don't think even the marginally better viewership is likely but I don't know the market very well so I'll defer to the judgement of locals.

[tribe_pride]

Yes, they are the same. I don't think even the marginally better viewership is likely but I don't know the market very well so I'll defer to the judgement of locals.

A lot more people are enrolled in JMU (19,000+ undergrad) and ODU (19,000+) than in Richmond (3,000+) and W&M (6,000+) so I can see the viewership being higher because of that.

[RootinFerDukes]

A lot more people are enrolled in JMU (19,000+ undergrad) and ODU (19,000+) than in Richmond (3,000+) and W&M (6,000+) so I can see the viewership being higher because of that.

What I meant was the following and not a knock at UR/WM specifically. Simply by being FBS, ODU/JMU would be more likely to get televised in some form, more likely to get marginally more media coverage in VA. Average TV viewership for the G5 is higher than FCS TV viewership, although marginally so. Neither are near the P5 viewership. I wasn't saying that at all.

My main point is that, as you say here, both schools have higher enrollments and draw higher average crowds to their home games. At minimum, there will be more fans in the stands at each respective school's rivalry game and that alone will make it bigger. ODU/JMU in 2011 was a sellout in Norfolk, 20k+ and I was there. There wasn't an empty seat in the house. JMU/ODU in 2012 was the weekend before Thanksgiving with students gone. It still had an attendance of 23k+ but I'd say it looked 75-80% full just by roughly estimating.

UR/WM simply haven't had those numbers, stadium size or not.

Enrollment #s:
ODU 24,932 (2014)
JMU 21,227 (2015)
WM 8,437 (2014)
UR 4,181 (2015)