Will UMass come back to the CAA

[benuski]

According to ESPN (http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/10677441/massachusetts-minutemen-reach-agreement-leave-mid-america-conference-2015-season-per-sources), they have been basically kicked out of the MAC after the 2015 season; given that they are A-10 in all other sports, I wonder if they would try and come back into the CAA for football (and whether or not the CAA would take them back).

[centennial]

According to ESPN (http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/10677441/massachusetts-minutemen-reach-agreement-leave-mid-america-conference-2015-season-per-sources), they have been basically kicked out of the MAC after the 2015 season; given that they are A-10 in all other sports, I wonder if they would try and come back into the CAA for football (and whether or not the CAA would take them back).
Probably go independent aka BYU. I don't see them dropping down..

[Sandlapper Spike]

Will try for the AAC, if I had to guess.

[henfan]

With JMU the next likely mover, I can't imagine that CAA FB wouldn't take UM back in a heartbeat. Doubtful they'll move back to the FCS, however.

My guess is that UM will try to hook up with the AAC or CUSA and play independent until they find a conference. If that doesn't happen in 3-5 years, might we see them get out of the FB business?

[NoDak 4 Ever]

This has been a loser for them from the jump. Ill conceived and poorly executed. The allure of FBS has been far too compelling for them and they'll stay at any cost.

[Sandlapper Spike]

I guess a football-only invite to the Sun Belt could be in play, too.

[WH49er]

UMass isn't moving their basketball from the A10 unless it's going to the AAC.

[centennial]

This has been a loser for them from the jump. Ill conceived and poorly executed. The allure of FBS has been far too compelling for them and they'll stay at any cost.
Playing in a field 100 miles from campus doesn't help. They should have upgraded to 30k stadium and made the jump after.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

If UMass liked the travel costs of playing in the MAC, they'll love the travel costs of playing in the Sun Belt...

As long as UConn is in the AAC, there is no way in God's Green Earth that they'll be admitted in football only. And even if they did, travel expenses would still skyrocket.

Toiling as an FBS independent is possible but would be an even bigger money loser.

No question it's a really tough situation at UMass.

[hebmskebm]

I found it interesting that the MAC offered Umass all sports membership and Umass TURNED THEM DOWN. Is it because they know they have other options on the horizon (AAC, SB)????

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I found it interesting that the MAC offered Umass all sports membership and Umass TURNED THEM DOWN. Is it because they know they have other options on the horizon (AAC, SB)????

UMass was never leaving the A-10. The leagues continued basketball success is a financial windfall for everyone, with Dayton's latest Sweet 16 run (and maybe more) simply adding to the kitty. THe MAC, on the other hand, let's just say it's not generating nearly as much money.

[Sandlapper Spike]

UMass was never leaving the A-10. The leagues continued basketball success is a financial windfall for everyone, with Dayton's latest Sweet 16 run (and maybe more) simply adding to the kitty. THe MAC, on the other hand, let's just say it's not generating nearly as much money.

This is true. The AAC would be a different story, however, with a bunch of schools that make regular tourney appearances (UConn, Cincinnati, Memphis) and some others with potential (SMU, Houston, Tulsa). I could see UMass leaving the A-10 for the AAC.

[henfan]

You might heard that UMass has a pretty good MBB program.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

Will try for the AAC, if I had to guess.

I think that is what will happen, unfortunately. I don't think they are going back to the FCS.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

UMass will try for the AAC. They'll also try for the ACC, Big 10, SEC. That doesn't mean they'll get in.

What's the Plan B? That's the most important question.

[Sandlapper Spike]

UMass will try for the AAC. They'll also try for the ACC, Big 10, SEC. That doesn't mean they'll get in.

What's the Plan B? That's the most important question.

There is no Plan B, unless you think the Sun Belt is a potential Plan B.

Plan C is moving back to FCS (or dropping football entirely).

[Sandlapper Spike]

The real question is what precipitated this move by the MAC to fish or cut bait with UMass. Why now?

[umassfan]

Umass will be in the AAC. It will be a done deal soon. Umass has been working on the AAC deal all season that is why they said no to the MAC.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Remember when UMass said the only hope for their football program was to jump to FBS because they were losing so much money in FCS?

[walliver]

The real question is what precipitated this move by the MAC to fish or cut bait with UMass. Why now?

The real question is : Why did they accept UMass in the first place?

[DFW HOYA]

There is no Plan B, unless you think the Sun Belt is a potential Plan B.

Plan C is moving back to FCS (or dropping football entirely).

Plan D: Patriot League. Begin the Holy Cross-UMass rivalry discussion...

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

I hope UMass joins the AAC! Temple and UMass have always shared a strong rivalry in hoops!

Plus, UMass vs UConn twice a year would be must see tv!

[citdog]

Temple has bigger problems. Like their students being unable to walk down the street 2 blocks from Campus without being hit in the face with bricks by members of gangs I mean "neighborhood associations".


http://charlestonthuglife.net/2014/03/25/secret/

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Temple has bigger problems. Like their students being unable to walk down the street 2 blocks from Campus without being hit in the face with bricks by members of gangs I mean "neighborhood associations".


http://charlestonthuglife.net/2014/03/25/secret/

Temple is located in a very rough section of Philadelphia. These types of events will happen from time to time unfortunately. Anytime you step off of campus you realize there is some risk.

I heard gun shots a few times. Heck, a gunshot victim crashed into the fence outside my dorm freshman year. I just chalked it up as just another night in North Philly.

Temple's location helps to weed out those that lived under a rock for 18 years and big time partiers. You don't want to be wondering off campus drunk. Good chance you'll get mugged or shanked....

BTW, the 3 girls involved in this were caught. They won't be dealt with lightly....

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

UMass and Buffalo are apparenly in the mix for an AAC invite.

I've always felt Buffalo had great potential. The campus is ugly but the school has money, strong academics and respectable facilities....

[UNHWildcat18]

Yeah UMASS will 100% move to the AAC, I hope that Buffalo UMass Cincy Uconn temple are in the AAC for atleast a little while. UCONN and CINCY obviously want out though. Navy football being added is nice as well, forms a core region to the league atleast. I hate the other crap schools that joined like tulsa and tulane??? really.....

[citdog]

Yeah UMASS will 100% move to the AAC, I hope that Buffalo UMass Cincy Uconn temple are in the AAC for atleast a little while. UCONN and CINCY obviously want out though. Navy football being added is nice as well, forms a core region to the league atleast. I hate the other crap schools that joined like tulsa and tulane??? really.....

Tulane is a better school than UNH or UMASS. So if any must be crap......

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Yeah UMASS will 100% move to the AAC....

How untrue is this? As long as UConn is there they will do everything they can to prevent this from happening.

Now if the ACC expands with UConn, that's a different matter.

This also is contingent on Navy joining the conference in 2015, which is hardly a lock to happen either.

[Sandlapper Spike]

How untrue is this? As long as UConn is there they will do everything they can to prevent this from happening.


I'm not sure how much pull UConn is going to have in the AAC, though. UConn's own options are currently limited; it's not like it can threaten to leave the league, because it doesn't have any other place to go.

[Sader87]

I'm not so sure UConn would be as "anti-UMass joining the AAC" as some think. It provides another local rival, another similar school to their conference etc.

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

I'm not so sure UConn would be as "anti-UMass joining the AAC" as some think. It provides another local rival, another similar school to their conference etc.

The Sled Dog fans on the Boneyard are definitely against UMass joining the AAC. Unless of course UConn has left for another league, then they're all in favor. xlolx

[WH49er]

Yeah UMASS will 100% move to the AAC, I hope that Buffalo UMass Cincy Uconn temple are in the AAC for atleast a little while. UCONN and CINCY obviously want out though. Navy football being added is nice as well, forms a core region to the league atleast. I hate the other crap schools that joined like tulsa and tulane??? really.....


Tulsa has had a ton of success in all sports in CUSA, I wish they were staying.

[bkrownd]

If the B1G ever wants their brand in the New England market they better start courting us soon.

[Yotes]

If the B1G ever wants their brand in the New England market they better start courting us soon.
I guarantee UConn would do anything to get in too.

[bkrownd]

I guarantee UConn would do anything to get in too.

The B1G isn't going after a vo-tech in Storrs. They want the B1G D0G in Amherst.

http://viewer.zmags.com/publication/8dfde6af#/8dfde6af/24

[downbythebeach]

I think we will see the CAA join UMASS. Seems to be a lot of teams in the process of moving up anymore.

[PAllen]

I think we will see the CAA join UMASS. Seems to be a lot of teams in the process of moving up anymore.

Interesting thought. UMass, Army, Navy, Delaware, JMU, who else? An upgraded Towson, Albany, or Stony Brook? Does ODU come back?

[citdog]

Interesting thought. UMass, Army, Navy, Delaware, JMU, who else? An upgraded Towson, Albany, or Stony Brook? Does ODU come back?


http://www.citadel.edu/root/images/old_imgs/externalaffairs.citadel.edu/files/Image/sy02-03/homepage/r20030716_6950_football.jpg

Delaware can't even beat The Citadel on the road.

[IBleedYellow]

I think we will see the CAA join UMASS. Seems to be a lot of teams in the process of moving up anymore.

This is what I don't get...If all of your historically peer institutions move up with you...WHAT CHANGES?!? The upper echelon schools will schedule you even less since you have more schools around your playing and paying ability that will allow you to have plenty filled schedules, and the upper guys will be able to schedule only the good strength of schedule teams.

Oh, you get to change a C to a B. Big amazing change that cost millions. Here, have a cookie, I hope it tastes good, because it's a really expensive cookie.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

For those of you who thought the AAC was the logical place for UMass,

http://ht.ly/v9gum


The AAC features Temple, Connecticut, Cincinnati, Central Florida, South Florida, Houston, Southern Methodist and Memphis.


“That’s the configuration we expect the conference to have going forward. Now you never rule out anything. We would always be, alert, in terms of expansion down the road. But I don’t know there’s going to be much realignment the next few years,” Aresco said. “We think we’ll be a cohesive stable group of 12. That doesn’t rule out us thinking about expanding down the road if the right institution made sense, if there was good, academic, athletic and cultural fit. That’s not our goal right now. Our goal is to build the league and build value in football and basketball like we have in our first year.”

...


Any addition to the conference would have to be approved by its board of directors, which is made up of each university’s president or chancellor.


“They have the final votes,” Aresco said. “The athletic directors would have to recommend and endorse this, along with me, for the presidents to even vote on it.”


It sounds like they are not eager at all to get to 14, which could pose a problem in terms of division alignment in 2015:

AAC East
---------
Temple
UConn
Navy
ECU
Cincy
Memphis

AAC Southeast
---------------
UCF
USF
Houston
SMU
Tulsa
Tulane

The only spot open in AAC East is if Navy declines membership in 2015, or UConn goes somewhere else, or Cincinnati goes somewhere else. Which could very well happen. But if this alignment stays stable, it looks like the AAC is not going to go through hoops to accommodate UMass.

[PAllen]

http://www.citadel.edu/root/images/old_imgs/externalaffairs.citadel.edu/files/Image/sy02-03/homepage/r20030716_6950_football.jpg

Delaware can't even beat The Citadel on the road.

I thought The Citadel was far superior to Canoe U and Hudson High as well? The Blue Hens would be a nice fit with all of the other Northeast schools that the boys in Charleston claim are inferior.

[Sandlapper Spike]

For those of you who thought the AAC was the logical place for UMass,

http://ht.ly/v9gum



It sounds like they are not eager at all to get to 14, which could pose a problem in terms of division alignment in 2015:

AAC East
---------
Temple
UConn
Navy
ECU
Cincy
Memphis

AAC Southeast
---------------
UCF
USF
Houston
SMU
Tulsa
Tulane

The only spot open in AAC East is if Navy declines membership in 2015, or UConn goes somewhere else, or Cincinnati goes somewhere else. Which could very well happen. But if this alignment stays stable, it looks like the AAC is not going to go through hoops to accommodate UMass.

I don't see any reason at this time why Navy would decline membership. I also don't know where UConn or Cinci could go. They aren't going to the Big 10, and the Big XII doesn't want/need them right now either.

[Go Green]

I I also don't know where UConn or Cinci could go. They aren't going to the Big 10, and the Big XII doesn't want/need them right now either.

One scenario:

Duke football players unionize.

Duke drops football.

Duke gets kicked out the ACC (nobody cares about basketball--otherwise UConn would have a home now).

UConn and Cincy fight to be the replacement.

[DFW HOYA]

Umm....no. A more realistic scenario:

1. Cincinnati and UConn to the Big 12.
2. Massachusetts and Marshall to the AAC, for two divisions:

West: SMU, Houston, Tulane, Tulsa, Memphis, UCF
East: UMass, Temple, Navy, Marshall, USF, East Carolina

[Go Green]

A more realistic scenario:

1. Cincinnati and UConn to the Big 12.


There are reasons why this hasn't happened already. So long as the Big 12 is content not to have a football championship game (the current prevailing sentiment), they won't expand.

If that ever changes, my gut is that they'd reach out to a Florida team (UCF or USF) before either UConn or Cincy. And that assumes that no current power conference team (or BYU) is willing to defect the way Maryland recently did.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

There are reasons why this hasn't happened already. So long as the Big 12 is content not to have a football championship game (the current prevailing sentiment), they won't expand.

If that ever changes, my gut is that they'd reach out to a Florida team (UCF or USF) before either UConn or Cincy. And that assumes that no current power conference team (or BYU) is willing to defect the way Maryland recently did.

UCF or USF defecting to the Big XII would also suit UMass, as there would be an opening in AAC East. Though then they'd need to get past the undoubtedly vociferous objections of UConn.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

UCF or USF defecting to the Big XII would also suit UMass, as there would be an opening in AAC East. Though then they'd need to get past the undoubtedly vociferous objections of UConn.

I could see UCF in the Big 12 simply due to the size of the university.

USF very large too. I'm not sure if it's nearly as appealing though....

[ThompsonThe]

Umass will be in the AAC. It will be a done deal soon. Umass has been working on the AAC deal all season that is why they said no to the MAC.

AAC has already said they are not adding UMass or anyone else right now. They have their eyes in other areas.
UMass doesn't do enough for them.

[melloware13]

One scenario:

Duke football players unionize.

Duke drops football.

Duke gets kicked out the ACC (nobody cares about basketball--otherwise UConn would have a home now).

UConn and Cincy fight to be the replacement.

Would Duke go down to the A10 or Big East with that situation? I don't see the other Triangle schools allowing them to be kicked out, even if just for the basketball name brand.

[DFW HOYA]

There are reasons why this hasn't happened already. So long as the Big 12 is content not to have a football championship game (the current prevailing sentiment), they won't expand.

Put another way, Texas is content not to have a football championship game. What Bevo wants, Bevo gets.

There is concern, however, that West Virginia needs a traveling partner at some point. Cincinnati would be the most logical choice an an utterly illogical move by the Mountaineers, who might have landed in the ACC if they weren't so quick to jump.

[Go Green]

Would Duke go down to the A10 or Big East with that situation? I don't see the other Triangle schools allowing them to be kicked out, even if just for the basketball name brand.

The Triangle also opposed ACC expansion altogether. Fat lot of good that did them.

http://northcarolinastate.scout.com/2/109639.html

As for non-football Duke's landing spot, my money is on the Big East.

[Go Green]

Put another way, Texas is content not to have a football championship game. What Bevo wants, Bevo gets.

There is concern, however, that West Virginia needs a traveling partner at some point. Cincinnati would be the most logical choice an an utterly illogical move by the Mountaineers, who might have landed in the ACC if they weren't so quick to jump.

Totally agree that Texas is driving the bus in the Big 12.

And the guess here is that Texas would prefer to play football games and/or recruit in Florida more than they prefer that West Virginia have a natural traveling partner.

[umassfan]

AAC has already said they are not adding UMass or anyone else right now. They have their eyes in other areas.
UMass doesn't do enough for them.

Just wait and see.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Does UConn's national championship now change their tune as to whether making the AAC work is worth it or not? Clearly UConn can still build national-championship caliber squads there. And as I keep saying, if UConn is happy in the AAC, there's no way UMass is coming aboard. At a bare minimum the AAC needs to pander heavily to UConn to keep them from leaving.

[Sandlapper Spike]

Does UConn's national championship now change their tune as to whether making the AAC work is worth it or not? Clearly UConn can still build national-championship caliber squads there. And as I keep saying, if UConn is happy in the AAC, there's no way UMass is coming aboard. At a bare minimum the AAC needs to pander heavily to UConn to keep them from leaving.

Where is UConn going?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Where is UConn going?

Didn't you hear? The Sun Belt :P

More seriously, UConn is proving they don't really need the ACC or Big XII to win basketball championships, they can do that in the AAC. The AAC or Big XII might want UConn because of their basketball, but both seem completely disinterested (though the ACC might want to revisit their interest considering how badly they've flamed out of the last two tournaments).

[Sandlapper Spike]

I don't think UConn is going to get an ACC invite any time soon. It's not really a fit on any level, and besides, it will take at least 20 years to cycle through all the ACC administrators/presidents/other officials who are still angry at Dick Blumenthal...

[Sader87]

BC is basically blocking UConn's entry into the ACC (as much as they can anyway).

I think it's a little premature to say the AAC is a success in hoop...that was basically a Big East roster for UConn last night.

I also think UConn isn't going to block UMass into joining the AAC....if anything, I think they welcome them into the conference.

[UNHWildcat18]

BC is basically blocking UConn's entry into the ACC (as much as they can anyway).

I think it's a little premature to say the AAC is a success in hoop...that was basically a Big East roster for UConn last night.

I also think UConn isn't going to block UMass into joining the AAC....if anything, I think they welcome them into the conference.


Yeah I see Umass getting into the AAC for 2016 season. I really hate the big ten for bringing in rutgers and maryland........ Still don't understand why they expanded, not like they brought in powerhouses for mens bball/football. Umass Uconn cincy maryland rutgers temple would have been a strong core, and would have kept the aac from going west as far as they did.

[DFW HOYA]

Still don't understand why they expanded, not like they brought in powerhouses for mens bball/football.

Media rights.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/chrissmith/2013/12/26/how-massive-conference-payouts-are-changing-the-face-of-college-sports/

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

BC is basically blocking UConn's entry into the ACC (as much as they can anyway).

I think it's a little premature to say the AAC is a success in hoop...that was basically a Big East roster for UConn last night.

I also think UConn isn't going to block UMass into joining the AAC....if anything, I think they welcome them into the conference.

I agree. If you read various things regarding the AAC, UConn seems to be on-board with with the idea of UMass in the AAC.

As for the AAC being a success in hoops, it is a little too early to tell. With that said, conference affiliation means far less in hoops than it does football imo. The AAC has 4-5 (UConn, Cincinnati, Temple, Memphis and maybe Tulsa and/or Houston) historically successful hoops schools. There is a lack of depth though that's very much apparent relative to the Big 10, Big 12, ACC etc. Basically, the AAC is a slightly better version of the MWC.

[Yotes]

Media rights.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/chrissmith/2013/12/26/how-massive-conference-payouts-are-changing-the-face-of-college-sports/
Which is why I wouldn't be shocked to see UConn in the Big 10 someday.

[Laker]

Which is why I wouldn't be shocked to see UConn in the Big 10 someday.

I don't think that the Big Ten wants a school that was on academic probation and couldn't even be in the tournament because of it.

[bkrownd]

Which is why I wouldn't be shocked to see UConn in the Big 10 someday.

UMass is the only school in New England that's B1G material. xasswhipx

[Yotes]

I don't think that the Big Ten wants a school that was on academic probation and couldn't even be in the tournament because of it.
I doubt they care at all about how well the athletes are doing in the classroom, UConn seems to be a fine enough academic institution if their lack of AAU membership can be overlooked. Plus their basketball programs are top notch.

I just can't see UMass as Big Ten material, C-USA material at best.

[citdog]

UMass is the only school in New England that's B1G material. xasswhipx

Correction Umass is the only school in new england to be outdrawn in football by le high.

[Laker]

This article about the new Big Ten office in New York doesn't talk about any particular school- but I'm wondering if the next expansion won't be in the East.

http://www.bigten.org/genrel/041014aad.html

[DFW HOYA]

This article about the new Big Ten office in New York doesn't talk about any particular school- but I'm wondering if the next expansion won't be in the East.

Memo to the ACC: You're next...

[Go Green]

Memo to the ACC: You're next...

That will piss off those Illinois senators pushing for Illinois State and Southern Illinois for the Big 10. :)

[iBOsbu]

I doubt they care at all about how well the athletes are doing in the classroom, UConn seems to be a fine enough academic institution if their lack of AAU membership can be overlooked. Plus their basketball programs are top notch.

I just can't see UMass as Big Ten material, C-USA material at best.

Big Ten definitely cares a lot about academics. That is why they have only accepted Rutgers and Maryland.. both AAU member. Only school not a member of AAU is Nebraska, but who knew that they would be removed from AAU in 2011. Big Ten maintains, besides athletics, an academic and research cooperation among the members.

That's why Cincy and UConn will be never invited to Big Ten.

[bkrownd]

Only school not a member of AAU is Nebraska, but who knew that they would be removed from AAU in 2011.

Well, there's the fact that Big 10 members voted to remove them from the AAU. If it actually meant that much to them, they wouldn't have done that.

[iBOsbu]

Well, there's the fact that Big 10 members voted to remove them from the AAU. If it actually meant that much to them, they wouldn't have done that.

Not sure if that's a fact.

"Perlman said most of the 11 other Big Ten universities supported UNL's efforts to remain in the AAU, as did all of the Big 12 universities in the AAU."

http://journalstar.com/news/local/education/article_d9eca939-b681-535d-ad1a-a98d9ef3b01e.html?utm_campaign=ljtweet&utm_source=ljtweet&utm_medium=ljtweet

[Laker]

Not sure if that's a fact.

"Perlman said most of the 11 other Big Ten universities supported UNL's efforts to remain in the AAU, as did all of the Big 12 universities in the AAU."

http://journalstar.com/news/local/education/article_d9eca939-b681-535d-ad1a-a98d9ef3b01e.html?utm_campaign=ljtweet&utm_source=ljtweet&utm_medium=ljtweet


To me, UNL should be spending most of their time and effort on ag research. It is an agricultural state.

"Another disadvantage UNL faced, Perlman said, was the AAU policy of not allowing member universities to include research funded by the U.S. Department of Agriculture, a major source of funding for UNL. However, the association does count agricultural faculty when weighting rankings, Perlman said."

[Sader87]

BU is in the AAU...maybe they'll leave the Patriot League for the B1G

[Yotes]

This article about the new Big Ten office in New York doesn't talk about any particular school- but I'm wondering if the next expansion won't be in the East.

http://www.bigten.org/genrel/041014aad.html
My guesses for their top targets are Kansas, Virginia, Duke/UNC, and possibly Georgia Tech. So, like was said, "you're next ACC"

[bkrownd]

Not sure if that's a fact.

"Perlman said most of the 11 other Big Ten universities supported UNL's efforts to remain in the AAU, as did all of the Big 12 universities in the AAU."

http://journalstar.com/news/local/education/article_d9eca939-b681-535d-ad1a-a98d9ef3b01e.html?utm_campaign=ljtweet&utm_source=ljtweet&utm_medium=ljtweet


"Most" is not all, and he's going to exaggerate, so the fact is that other conference members DID vote against them. Basically at that moment the point where the Big 10 shed the supposed "AAU membership requirement" by voting one of their own out of it right after admitting them. If they were really so committed to it they would have presented a united front and lobbied for their fellow member.

[bkrownd]

To me, UNL should be spending most of their time and effort on ag research. It is an agricultural state.

"Another disadvantage UNL faced, Perlman said, was the AAU policy of not allowing member universities to include research funded by the U.S. Department of Agriculture, a major source of funding for UNL. However, the association does count agricultural faculty when weighting rankings, Perlman said."

At the time the story was that the lack of a medical school was the main disadvantage.

[Go Green]

My guesses for their top targets are Kansas, Virginia, Duke/UNC, and possibly Georgia Tech. So, like was said, "you're next ACC"

It's widely believed that Notre Dame is the Big 10's top choice. So yeah-- "ACC," if you consider ND an ACC school.

Pitt may make the most sense geographically. But like Ohio State does with Cincy, I'm guessing that Penn State is already well-placed in the Pittsburgh media market. So Pitt wouldn't really "bring" much to the Big 10 in terms of television eyeballs.

[Laker]

It's widely believed that Notre Dame is the Big 10's top choice. So yeah-- "ACC," if you consider ND an ACC school.

Pitt may make the most sense geographically. But like Ohio State does with Cincy, I'm guessing that Penn State is already well-placed in the Pittsburgh media market. So Pitt wouldn't really "bring" much to the Big 10 in terms of television eyeballs.

I heard that PSU didn't want Pitt, just like OSU didn't want Cincy. I am surprised that the BIG took Rutgers instead of Syracuse, though. I would think that has more of a TV market that the Scarlet Knights- to me, the Orange seem like the most popular team in the state of New York- and the most recognition across the nation. I have no clue about their academics.

I also read that GA Tech has support from Purdue- I have no idea why. That would get them into the South but I'd rather have Virginia. The Fighting Hiberians make more sense geographically and historically but realignment wasn't meant to make any sense.

[Evolution Prime]

At the time the story was that the lack of a medical school was the main disadvantage.

I don't think it was the lack of a medical school, it was that the medical school was in Omaha and not in Lincoln.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I heard that PSU didn't want Pitt, just like OSU didn't want Cincy. I am surprised that the BIG took Rutgers instead of Syracuse, though. I would think that has more of a TV market that the Scarlet Knights- to me, the Orange seem like the most popular team in the state of New York- and the most recognition across the nation. I have no clue about their academics

UConn is the most popular team in NYC.

[Go Green]

UConn is the most popular team in NYC.

In football?

That's all that matters.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

In football?

That's all that matters.

The most popular football team in NYC is the Giants.

[Yotes]

In football?

That's all that matters.
Are Rutgers and Maryland the most popular football teams in their regions?

[Go Green]

Are Rutgers and Maryland the most popular football teams in their regions?

The Big 10 can't invite the Redskins and Giants. They can only invite the most popular college football teams in a media market.

Maryland fits the bill. I'd venture to say that Notre Dame is the most popular team in the NYC/NJ market. But after them, it's probably Rutgers.

[Sader87]

UConn's following is basically what a state's university's following is in the Midwest & South is (though not to that degree)...that is, they are followed by many people in the towns and cities of the Nutmeg State but not much by the denizens of NYC and Boston.

The Northeast corridor (Boston to DC) is very much NFL country first and foremost. The only major FBS following in this region is for Penn State and you could make an argument that Penn St country is more "Midwest" than "Northeast" in some ways.

[JSUBison]

UMASS won't go back to the CAA. They'd rather follow the Idaho model than lose face. It's like the guy who brags he vacations on the Hamptons. While technically it is true, he's actually sleeping in his car behind some gas station to do it.

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

UConn's following is basically what a state's university's following is in the Midwest & South is (though not to that degree)...that is, they are followed by many people in the towns and cities of the Nutmeg State but not much by the denizens of NYC and Boston.

I think you're wrong about that because there is a large UConn alumni population in both the Boston and NYC metro areas. UConn sports are covered by SNY as in the Sports New York network! Fairfield County CT is within the NYC sphere of influence. In my travels around New England off the Interstate highways I've seen more UConn flags than any other school. Even in many parts of Massachusetts, I've seen many more UConn flags on houses than UMass flags. Within New England UConn comes the closest to having a fan base like other parts of the country. BC's obnoxious hockey fans ruined any chance they had of being New England's team. And frankly, UMass can't come close to matching UConn Nation when it comes to fan bases. Just look at football attendance since they became FBS schools. UMass had significantly better attendance in FCS but UConn now has over double the attendance.

Over the years I've seen many a weasel politician jump on the Husky Nation bandwagon and throw his own Alma Mater under the bus because they know to stay elected in this state you better be on board with the Huskies. I don't think I've ever seen that in Massachusetts. And I've seen more people in CT who have graduated from small private schools or out of state public schools who jump on board their state's university bandwagon. Something I see very little of within the Northeast with other public schools.

BTW, I'm not a closet fan of the Sled Dogs, don't really care for them actually. Take pride in not being part of Husky Nation!! xlolx

[Sader87]

I don't think we differ really....though I don't think UConn has that big of a following in the Boston and NYC media markets. Are there a lot of alumni in both places? Yes, but they don't really get much play in those two cities TV stations, talk radio, newspapers etc etc

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I don't think we differ really....though I don't think UConn has that big of a following in the Boston and NYC media markets. Are there a lot of alumni in both places? Yes, but they don't really get much play in those two cities TV stations, talk radio, newspapers etc etc

UConn took over the Sweet 16 in NYC this year, and they are one fairly significant reason, IMO, that the NCAA Tournament broke attendance records this year.

[superman7515]

From the New York Times back in 2011...


http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2011/09/19/us/fivethirtyeight-0919-geocolfootball-topTV/fivethirtyeight-0919-geocolfootball-topTV-blog480.png


http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2011/09/19/us/fivethirtyeight-0919-geocolfootball-NYCTV/fivethirtyeight-0919-geocolfootball-NYCTV-blog480.png

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

I don't think we differ really....though I don't think UConn has that big of a following in the Boston and NYC media markets. Are there a lot of alumni in both places? Yes, but they don't really get much play in those two cities TV stations, talk radio, newspapers etc etc

I can't really say because I definitely don't watch TV, listen to talk radio or read newspapers from NYC. And while inclined to do so with Boston, alas I'm out of range of Boston TV and radio. (Just like I am with NYC.) Well, I do get Comcast Sports Network New England and NESN, but don't watch their talk shows, just sporting events. I virtually never watch the YES Network and only watch UConn WBB on SNY.

Agreed that Boston media is pro sports oriented first and foremost. After that it seems they throw some bones to whatever college team is doing well.

I've had discussions with someone at NESN about why they're covering ACC events not involving BC rather than an event involving a New England team. Their reply was because it was the Beagles league they think there is interest. I replied that most in New England, other than BC grads and some Bostonian Irish Catholics, didn't give a rat's arse about watching the Beagles let alone Tobacco Road teams! I got a very humorous reply when the person acknowledged they were a BU grad!!!

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

UConn took over the Sweet 16 in NYC this year, and they are one fairly significant reason, IMO, that the NCAA Tournament broke attendance records this year.

Did anyone research how many tickets were sold to the MSG Regional before UConn made the Sweet 16? I had the impression that other than the school's allotment (1,250???) that most tickets were bought on the after market (Stub Hub and their ilk) at much higher than face value. I know Metro North added cars to their trains as well as an additional train from New Haven.

[hebmskebm]

Rutgers has a strong fanbase in New Jersey, and Northern NJ is of course part of the NYC market. They don't have much support in New York State proper though.

[Sader87]

I can't really say because I definitely don't watch TV, listen to talk radio or read newspapers from NYC. And while inclined to do so with Boston, alas I'm out of range of Boston TV and radio. (Just like I am with NYC.) Well, I do get Comcast Sports Network New England and NESN, but don't watch their talk shows, just sporting events. I virtually never watch the YES Network and only watch UConn WBB on SNY.

Agreed that Boston media is pro sports oriented first and foremost. After that it seems they throw some bones to whatever college team is doing well.

I've had discussions with someone at NESN about why they're covering ACC events not involving BC rather than an event involving a New England team. Their reply was because it was the Beagles league they think there is interest. I replied that most in New England, other than BC grads and some Bostonian Irish Catholics, didn't give a rat's arse about watching the Beagles let alone Tobacco Road teams! I got a very humorous reply when the person acknowledged they were a BU grad!!!

That's basically what I mean i.e. you're an example of a typical UConn fan (I know you're not)....most of UConn's fandom is within the state itself (or Greater Hartford) and not part of either the Boston or NYC market.

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

That's basically what I mean i.e. you're an example of a typical UConn fan (I know you're not)....most of UConn's fandom is within the state itself (or Greater Hartford) and not part of either the Boston or NYC market.

Other than the very significant portion that live in New Haven and Fairfield Counties. While for TV ratings I believe New Haven and Hartford are considered one TV market, most of New Haven County is definitely within the NYC sphere. I bet most of the cable TV systems there include NYC channels and only YES and SNY. Fairfield County is definitely within NYC radio and TV range. From a friend that lives down there, I know he isn't offered NESN or Comcast Sports NE!

I don't know offhand what percentage of CT's population is within those three counties but it has to be significant. Now with SNY televising UConn games, there is a statewide demand for SNY to be included within their cable systems bringing more of CT into that NYC influence to a small degree. And look at the Quinnipiac studies done each year on Red Sox and Yankee fandom within CT. New Haven and Fairfield counties are firmly Yankees Country so you've got a significant portion of UConn Alumni/Students/Fans within the NYC Media market.

[Go Green]

From the New York Times back in 2011...




http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2011/09/19/us/fivethirtyeight-0919-geocolfootball-NYCTV/fivethirtyeight-0919-geocolfootball-NYCTV-blog480.png

I guess I was wrong about Notre Dame being the most popular team in NYC/NJ. :)

[superman7515]

Fairfield County is in the NYC media market but New Haven is not. Being within an areas sphere of influence or being fans of the Yankees has no bearing on the media market though. The Yankees are the most popular team in most of the counties in North Carolina, Lousiana, and New Mexico; hardly an argument that they're within the specified geographical boundaries of the NYC media market.

[Sader87]

My basic point is (and I'll shut up about it after this post) that the B1G, ACC etc will not really go after either UConn or UMass if they are looking to get into the NYC or Boston media markets. Neither school is really that big in either market.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

From the New York Times back in 2011...


http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2011/09/19/us/fivethirtyeight-0919-geocolfootball-topTV/fivethirtyeight-0919-geocolfootball-topTV-blog480.png


http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2011/09/19/us/fivethirtyeight-0919-geocolfootball-NYCTV/fivethirtyeight-0919-geocolfootball-NYCTV-blog480.png

Thanks, Supe for reposting this graphic. I think this is the bit of information that the B1G noted when it made a go at Rutgers. However, I very, very, VERY much wonder if this self-identification with Rutgers was a tail-end of that spike with the Schiano era when they beat Louisville on the Thursday night to become relevant. Basically, I wonder if those numbers have gone down, or if many of those 607,157 have now found something better to do now that Rutgers is teetering around irrelevance again.

Also, this is just football. I think it's very telling that, despite UConn's relative tough time cracking the top tier of relevancy, they're STILL 4th, above Michigan, Syracuse and Army. If you change this to men's basketball or all sports, I think UConn wins that race comfortably. IMO.

[Sader87]

Don't forget St John's though.....and to a lesser extent Seton Hall and Fordham in NYC hoop before UConn.

I'm not diminishing UConn's fandom...it's very solid, it just doesn't have much of a presence in the NYC-area.

[superman7515]

Also, this is just football. I think it's very telling that, despite UConn's relative tough time cracking the top tier of relevancy, they're STILL 4th, above Michigan, Syracuse and Army. If you change this to men's basketball or all sports, I think UConn wins that race comfortably. IMO.

Possibly, but you have to remember that college basketball is actually becoming less popular overall in the US. The latest Harris Poll found it was rated as a "favorite sport" by just 3% of Americans, a slide of another 2% over the last year. It's not a fluke either with Sports Illustrated, Business Insider, ESPN, Fox Sports, USA Today, and dozens of others doing articles in the last few years about the declining interest in college basketball. Yes, March Madness gets a lot of attention, but the overwhelming majority aren't actual fans, just those interested in the brackets.

[Go Green]

Possibly, but you have to remember that college basketball is actually becoming less popular overall in the US. The latest Harris Poll found it was rated as a "favorite sport" by just 3% of Americans, a slide of another 2% over the last year.

Much of that was self-fulfilling when schools made it obvious that they prioritized football above all else.

BC basketball fans cared about games against Georgetown, Providence, Syracuse, and Notre Dame. They don't care about basketball games against Wake Forest, NC State, Virginia, and Clemson.

[Sader87]

BC has never really had a big basketball fandom....always been a hockey school in the Winter.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

If there is any doubt that the AAC is trying very, very, very hard to retain UConn, comes word that the AAC conference tournament may be coming to Hartford.

Oh, yeah, and that detail about 200,000 people taking to the streets celebrating the twin basketball championships.

http://www.ncaa.com/news/basketball-men/article/2014-04-14/more-200000-cheer-connecticut-champion-teams-hartford


Hundreds of thousands of University of Connecticut fans jammed the streets of downtown Hartford on Sunday screaming for their victorious UConn Huskies.

Police described the outpouring — more than 200,000 people — as the largest event anyone could remember in the city of Hartford — bigger than the St. Patrick's Day parade, bigger than the 2004 UConn basketball celebration.


Let's be kind and say Rutgers athletics has never seen a fraction of this passion.

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

Fairfield County is in the NYC media market but New Haven is not. Being within an areas sphere of influence or being fans of the Yankees has no bearing on the media market though. The Yankees are the most popular team in most of the counties in North Carolina, Lousiana, and New Mexico; hardly an argument that they're within the specified geographical boundaries of the NYC media market.

I stated that New Haven wasn't in the NYC Media Market. But come on Supe, comparing a city a little over 75 miles from midtown Manhattan with commuter rail train service (Metro North) at least once an hour, more frequent during rush hour, to Grand Central Station to NC, LA and NM is crazy.

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

My basic point is (and I'll shut up about it after this post) that the B1G, ACC etc will not really go after either UConn or UMass if they are looking to get into the NYC or Boston media markets. Neither school is really that big in either market.

I'm shutting up too because I feel dirty just talking about the Sled Dogs!

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

Much of that was self-fulfilling when schools made it obvious that they prioritized football above all else.

BC basketball fans cared about games against Georgetown, Providence, Syracuse, and Notre Dame. They don't care about basketball games against Wake Forest, NC State, Virginia, and Clemson.

Guess their Administration didn't understand that. Why would you then join the ACC??????? xlolx

[Go Green]

Guess their Administration didn't understand that. Why would you then join the ACC??????? xlolx

Because the ACC football payouts were a lot higher than the Big East football payouts.

BC saw bigger revenue checks come in as a result of the ACC move. But it came at a big cost to fan interest.
It was a money grab, plain and simple.

And don't be surprised if something similar happens to Maryland. Maryland's fans cared about playing the Carolina teams and UVA. I don't think they are going to give two hoots about playing Minnesota, Northwestern and Purdue.

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

Because the ACC football payouts were a lot higher than the Big East football payouts.

BC saw bigger revenue checks come in as a result of the ACC move. But it came at a big cost to fan interest.
It was a money grab, plain and simple.

And don't be surprised if something similar happens to Maryland. Maryland's fans cared about playing the Carolina teams and UVA. I don't think they are going to give two hoots about playing Minnesota, Northwestern and Purdue.

At what point do those higher payouts become a non factor because you've pissed off your fan base? At some point the loss in donations and season ticket sales (in hoop and football) has to erode the ACC football payouts, doesn't it?

Now I'm feeling even dirtier because I'm talking about UCH!!! xrotatehx xlolx xlolx

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I have this theory that BC's move to the ACC has destroyed sports in the Northeast. It destroyed any sort of developing Northeast FBS football rivalries, put a huge dent in men's basketball excitement, and also killed the overall competitiveness of the program, making them a sort-of afterthought in college athletics overall. Hard as it is to believe, there was a time when BC hockey wasn't the only thing people talked about when it came to the Eagles.

Instead, BC students now care more about hockey, where they play regional opponents that are bitter, historic rivals. Wow. Couldn't have predicted that. xrolleyesx

[PAllen]

And don't be surprised if something similar happens to Maryland. Maryland's fans cared about playing the Carolina teams and UVA. I don't think they are going to give two hoots about playing Minnesota, Northwestern and Purdue.

But they will care about playing Rutgers and especially Penn State.

[UNHWildcat18]

I have this theory that BC's move to the ACC has destroyed sports in the Northeast. It destroyed any sort of developing Northeast FBS football rivalries, put a huge dent in men's basketball excitement, and also killed the overall competitiveness of the program, making them a sort-of afterthought in college athletics overall. Hard as it is to believe, there was a time when BC hockey wasn't the only thing people talked about when it came to the Eagles.

Instead, BC students now care more about hockey, where they play regional opponents that are bitter, historic rivals. Wow. Couldn't have predicted that. xrolleyesx


I have to agree with you. Regional conferences would be ideal but money groveling rules college athletics.
Would have loved to see Temple Syracuse Rutgers Uconn Boston College(army navy buffalo maryland affiliates) all in the same FBS conference with other northeastern schools for all other sports such as Nova URI Umass St.Johns.

[Sader87]

Paterno wanted to do this way back when i.e. form a football league amongst the Eastern Indies....I think once the Big East got going in hoop and PSU ultimately joined the B1G, any idea of an Eastern FBS league (Big East football notwithstanding) was sort of doomed....

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

So the rumors about Umass to the SBC seem to be heating up again?

[Sader87]

So the rumors about Umass to the SBC seem to be heating up again?

It may "fit" in some respects but I doubt UMass will ever join the SBC. I think they'd drop football altogether before joining that conference.

[eaglewraith]

http://i.imgur.com/2xobBux.png

[Lehigh Football Nation]

In all honesty, if I thought the SBC was really an option for UMass I would say so. But honestly, for UMass, I don't see it, because of the additional travel costs involved. The MAC was a huge drain on resources, so imagine what the SBC would be like.

If, say, Eastern Kentucky were in the same situation (jumping to FBS, playing in the MAC then exiting), I would probably say they were headed to the SBC, and it would make some sense because there are a lot of schools that are bus rides away.

UMass' best bet, IMO, is to soldier on as an FBS independent for at least a couple years to see where everything shakes out. If the Power 5 get autonomy ans start to marginalize everyone else, perhaps they consider the CAA, or the AAC, or maybe something else.

[bkrownd]

Still talking about us, I see? I like it! xsmiley_wix

[KAUMASS]

UMass only goes to the Sunbelt for FB only on a heavily favored Umass contract with plenty of outs. UMass may use the sunbelt, but the Sunbelt is using UMass as well especially if they need 12 for a championship game. Otherwise we stay independent for a few years. Going back to CAA will never happen in football, we've invested too much into FBS football and we would lose more money in FCS than we do in FBS. That's why we jumped in the first place. Lose less money, be a little more prominent on the national stage in football. We've achieved that, albeit for being 2-22 the last two years. We have played a brutal schedule that no other 1-AA team making the jump has even come close to playing. The easiest team we have scheduled on paper was Maine, and we caught them in one of their top years and got a bloody nose. Maine gave Northwestern all they wanted last year as well. We will slowly get better each year as schollies ramp up to 85. We are still not there and won't be at 85 for another 2 years. This is a 4-6 year project.

[tribe_pride]

Why is UMass taking 4 years to get to 85 scholarships? I thought that this was done in 2 years.

Also, does UMass really have the leverage to do a heavily UMass favored contract? The MAC is now out unless they want to take UMass back. Only other options are CUSA, SBC, AAC or independent since I agree that going back to FCS realistically is not happening. Is CUSA or AAC planning to expand soon and is UMass the #1 choice of either? If not, independent seems to be the only option and that is not a great option if you are going to be FBS unless you are Notre Dame and maybe BYU. If it is, then you are correct. I really don't know the answer to the question but it will need to be decided in the next 2 years I believe.

Finally, Miami-Ohio (worse than almost all FCS schools), Akron, Ohio, Western Mich, and Central Mich all had worse sagarin rankings than Maine did last year.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Why is UMass taking 4 years to get to 85 scholarships? I thought that this was done in 2 years.

Also, does UMass really have the leverage to do a heavily UMass favored contract? The MAC is now out unless they want to take UMass back. Only other options are CUSA, SBC, AAC or independent since I agree that going back to FCS realistically is not happening. Is CUSA or AAC planning to expand soon and is UMass the #1 choice of either? If not, independent seems to be the only option and that is not a great option if you are going to be FBS unless you are Notre Dame and maybe BYU.

Finally, Miami-Ohio (worse than almost all FCS schools), Akron, Ohio, Western Mich, and Central Mich all had worse sagarin rankings than Maine did last year.

Worth mentioning here is that Western Michigan lost to Nicholls of the Southland.

Who ended up 4-8.

And lost to Lamar.

[LeadBolt]

Not sure why the CAA would wan UMass back.

[Tribe4SF]

UMass move appears to me to have been poorly planned, and done on the cheap. The new Idaho of FBS.

[UNHWILDCATS05]

UMass move appears to me to have been poorly planned, and done on the cheap. The new Idaho of FBS.

I think you just succinctly described everything the Commonwealth of MA tries to do.... no surprise here...

[Sader87]

The Big Dig was a lot of things, it wasn't done on the cheap though.

Massachusetts (and really, most of the Northeast) is different than a lot of the country in that its flagship state universities don't have the economic, political, social clout etc that the rest of the country enjoy. This has led to mismanagement, poorly conceived projects/ideas (like UMass going FBS) ovah the years.

[MplsBison]

The Big Dig was a lot of things, it wasn't done on the cheap though.

Massachusetts (and really, most of the Northeast) is different than a lot of the country in that its flagship state universities don't have the economic, political, social clout etc that the rest of the country enjoy. This has led to mismanagement, poorly conceived projects/ideas (like UMass going FBS) ovah the years.

Depends if you include Penn St and Rutgers in your definition of NE state flagship universities.

Certainly NY is in the northeast (though perhaps not New England). It's too bad that they split their flagship campuses into four sites instead of focusing on having a single, powerful flagship campus. Even still, Buffalo is AAU and playing FBS ball.

UConn we all know. The rest of New England, save for UMass, are small states. So it's really just UMass that was the oddity, and they're on the wrong side of the state from the urban center, which happens to contain probably the most advanced, concentrated higher education/research center in the world.

So I can give them a pass and wish them well on continually improving their brand and football team, within the state, within the northeast and within the country.

[PAllen]

Depends if you include Penn St and Rutgers in your definition of NE state flagship universities.

Certainly NY is in the northeast (though perhaps not New England). It's too bad that they split their flagship campuses into four sites instead of focusing on having a single, powerful flagship campus. Even still, Buffalo is AAU and playing FBS ball.

UConn we all know. The rest of New England, save for UMass, are small states. So it's really just UMass that was the oddity, and they're on the wrong side of the state from the urban center, which happens to contain probably the most advanced, concentrated higher education/research center in the world.

So I can give them a pass and wish them well on continually improving their brand and football team, within the state, within the northeast and within the country.

State College isn't exactly a suburb of Pittsburgh or Philly.

[MplsBison]

State College isn't exactly a suburb of Pittsburgh or Philly.

So you disagree that being located closer to Boston would help UMass be more popular within the state?

[Sader87]

Quibbling, but I would contend that Penn St is the oddity (football-wise) in the Northeast. For decades up to now, they have really been the only school in the Northeast that has had a solid/FBS-type following year to year. Other schools have had decent years here and there (BC, Rutgers, Syracuse) but no other school is close to being in Penn State's company in this regard.

[DFW HOYA]

The Big Dig was a lot of things, it wasn't done on the cheap though.


Original estimate: $600 million
Spend to date: $24 billion

[MplsBison]

Quibbling, but I would contend that Penn St is the oddity (football-wise) in the Northeast. For decades up to now, they have really been the only school in the Northeast that has had a solid/FBS-type following year to year. Other schools have had decent years here and there (BC, Rutgers, Syracuse) but no other school is close to being in Penn State's company in this regard.

I'd be curious to know the distribution of their fanbase still located in PA from west to east. In other words, if most Penn St fans come from Pittsburgh then you could argue they're the least northeast. But if a good number come from eastern PA, it doesn't hold water.

[UNHWILDCATS05]

The Big Dig was a lot of things, it wasn't done on the cheap though.

Massachusetts (and really, most of the Northeast) is different than a lot of the country in that its flagship state universities don't have the economic, political, social clout etc that the rest of the country enjoy. This has led to mismanagement, poorly conceived projects/ideas (like UMass going FBS) ovah the years.

In total cost, you are right. However the total cost is not an indicator on the quality of work done (see leaking tunnels and falling ceilings). I would say the actual work was done on the cheap. The high cost was due to corruption and unions.

[bkrownd]

UMass move appears to me to have been poorly planned, and done on the cheap.

Unfortunately it came in the middle of the reigns of 2 underachieving coaches. The only big contribution they got for the whole thing was Gillette, basically on loan.

Football in Amherst always had a "small town" feel that I really liked. I wonder if it will still be that way.

[PAllen]

Penn State's fan base is statewide. It helps that all of their satellite campuses think they are part of University Park. Probably one of few state college systems that use this model. I don't know that UMass being closer to Boston would have helped other than being closer to the NFL stadium they are using. Boston is very much a professional sports town.

[tribe_pride]

Penn State is close enough to the Midwest (Ohio) to allow it to be an exception.

[Go Green]

Unfortunately it came in the middle of the reigns of 2 underachieving coaches. .

It also came at a time when the Big East still existed. Most seem to agree that the ultimate goal for UMass was do copy UConn's model for BE admission.

Unfortunately... things didn't work out that way.

[bkrownd]

Meh, nobody with a pulse truly "wanted" to be in the BEast after the original mass exodus started a decade ago. B1G or bust.

[MplsBison]

UMass would accept an invitation to the AAC in a nanosecond. Its basketball is stronger than the A10 and it's either the best or second best football conference in the G5.

That would give them 12 members and a foot in the door to Boston (not going to respond to gobbledygook about how Boston is a pro sports town or how no one in Boston cares about UMass). I know Navy is coming as a football only member, but that leaves them at 11 all-sports members.

[ccd494]

UMass would accept an invitation to the AAC in a nanosecond. Its basketball is stronger than the A10 and it's either the best or second best football conference in the G5.

That would give them 12 members and a foot in the door to Boston (not going to respond to gobbledygook about how Boston is a pro sports town or how no one in Boston cares about UMass). I know Navy is coming as a football only member, but that leaves them at 11 all-sports members.

It's not gobbeldygook if it's true.

Regardless, what does the AAC gain by getting into Boston? The local RSN's are the "New England Sports Network" and "Comcast Sports New England." UConn is in New England. They don't need UMass to sell NESN or CSNNE on there being a local team. Both those channels also have the option of covering the ACC (BC), Big East (PC), A-10 (URI), Ivy (Harvard), etc.

NESN has the Bruins through the winter, Red Sox in the Spring and Fall. CSNNE has the Celtics. NESN has the ACC basketball and football packages. NESN does a Hockey East package on winter weekends (pretty sure New Hampshire-Boston U hockey would outdraw Tulsa-SMU basketball in Boston). This whole "getting into the markets" bubble is going to burst, there are only so many hours to broadcast games that are largely played at the same times.

I'm not saying they wouldn't add UMass, I'm just saying it will probably continue to be a debacle in Amherst that gains the AAC nothing.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

It's not gobbeldygook if it's true.

Regardless, what does the AAC gain by getting into Boston? The local RSN's are the "New England Sports Network" and "Comcast Sports New England." UConn is in New England. They don't need UMass to sell NESN or CSNNE on there being a local team. Both those channels also have the option of covering the ACC (BC), Big East (PC), A-10 (URI), Ivy (Harvard), etc.

NESN has the Bruins through the winter, Red Sox in the Spring and Fall. CSNNE has the Celtics. NESN has the ACC basketball and football packages. NESN does a Hockey East package on winter weekends (pretty sure New Hampshire-Boston U hockey would outdraw Tulsa-SMU basketball in Boston). This whole "getting into the markets" bubble is going to burst, there are only so many hours to broadcast games that are largely played at the same times.

I'm not saying they wouldn't add UMass, I'm just saying it will probably continue to be a debacle in Amherst that gains the AAC nothing.

You forgot about the white-hot hatred of UMass by UConn and their unquenchable desire to keep them down so that they can be the biggest, baddest school in the area. As long as UConn is in the AAC, they'll do everything in their power to keep UMass out, and it's partially because of the reasons you describe: they like their TV monopoly.

[MplsBison]

It's not gobbeldygook if it's true.

Regardless, what does the AAC gain by getting into Boston? The local RSN's are the "New England Sports Network" and "Comcast Sports New England." UConn is in New England. They don't need UMass to sell NESN or CSNNE on there being a local team. Both those channels also have the option of covering the ACC (BC), Big East (PC), A-10 (URI), Ivy (Harvard), etc.

NESN has the Bruins through the winter, Red Sox in the Spring and Fall. CSNNE has the Celtics. NESN has the ACC basketball and football packages. NESN does a Hockey East package on winter weekends (pretty sure New Hampshire-Boston U hockey would outdraw Tulsa-SMU basketball in Boston). This whole "getting into the markets" bubble is going to burst, there are only so many hours to broadcast games that are largely played at the same times.

I'm not saying they wouldn't add UMass, I'm just saying it will probably continue to be a debacle in Amherst that gains the AAC nothing.

Being at least partially true doesn't mean it's not gobbeldygook.

But anyway, I wasn't saying that everything you just pointed out is invalid. It is valid. It's something that AAC athletic directors would consider. On the other hand, you can't deny the fact that Boston is located in Massachusetts and the public flagship of that state is UMass. Not UConn. Not BC, UNH, Harvard, etc.

It's a fact that may get UMass into the AAC.


One other thing to point out. You are correct that NESN and CSNNE may already be on the cable networks that cover Boston TV households, despite UMass not being shown on those channels currently. But the more important point is if any subscribers of those Boston cable networks actually tune into NESN and CSNNE. That's the other half of the battle, once you've crossed the bridge of getting the channel on the network. You then have to convince people to watch it. Otherwise, why would people advertise on that channel?

So carrying UMass content on those networks may help more Boston TV households to actually tune into NESN and CSNNE. I'm not claiming that would be guaranteed to happen, but it's a reasonable idea to argue.

[MplsBison]

You forgot about the white-hot hatred of UMass by UConn and their unquenchable desire to keep them down so that they can be the biggest, baddest school in the area. As long as UConn is in the AAC, they'll do everything in their power to keep UMass out, and it's partially because of the reasons you describe: they like their TV monopoly.

UConn only cares about one thing, getting out of the AAC. And as such, the AAC is potentially at risk of losing a New England public flagship. Therefore, adding UMass would be insurance in case that happens. Plus it's a ready made rivalry with important marketing opportunities for football and basketball games in Boston and Hartford.

Should be easy for anyone to understand the potential upside.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

UConn only cares about one thing, getting out of the AAC. And as such, the AAC is potentially at risk of losing a New England public flagship. Therefore, adding UMass would be insurance in case that happens. Plus it's a ready made rivalry with important marketing opportunities for football and basketball games in Boston and Hartford.

Should be easy for anyone to understand the potential upside.

I agree that UMass is a poor man's UConn in this case. If UConn were to head to, say, the ACC, absolutely, it makes sense for the AAC to get UMass as a contingency play. But that means UMass' dreams about the AAC are contingent on the plans of another school. The AAC are not going to do UMass a favor if that favor will piss off UConn.

[Sader87]

I agree with this....I really don't think UConn will pull a BC and black-ball UMass out the AAC as BC has with UConn and the ACC (lot of initials here lol).

[MplsBison]

I agree that UMass is a poor man's UConn in this case. If UConn were to head to, say, the ACC, absolutely, it makes sense for the AAC to get UMass as a contingency play. But that means UMass' dreams about the AAC are contingent on the plans of another school. The AAC are not going to do UMass a favor if that favor will piss off UConn.

But then again, the AAC knows that UConn has no other option (if they want to play FBS football, that is). And UConn has already publicly stated (pleaded) for the ACC to take them, so it's not like UConn is making any commitment to the AAC.

The AAC has to do what is in the best interest of the AAC, now. And they are sitting at 11 members, with no natural travel partner or rival for UConn (which for the foreseeable future has no spot in the ACC).

[ccd494]

Being at least partially true doesn't mean it's not gobbeldygook.

But anyway, I wasn't saying that everything you just pointed out is invalid. It is valid. It's something that AAC athletic directors would consider. On the other hand, you can't deny the fact that Boston is located in Massachusetts and the public flagship of that state is UMass. Not UConn. Not BC, UNH, Harvard, etc.

It's a fact that may get UMass into the AAC.


One other thing to point out. You are correct that NESN and CSNNE may already be on the cable networks that cover Boston TV households, despite UMass not being shown on those channels currently. But the more important point is if any subscribers of those Boston cable networks actually tune into NESN and CSNNE. That's the other half of the battle, once you've crossed the bridge of getting the channel on the network. You then have to convince people to watch it. Otherwise, why would people advertise on that channel?

So carrying UMass content on those networks may help more Boston TV households to actually tune into NESN and CSNNE. I'm not claiming that would be guaranteed to happen, but it's a reasonable idea to argue.

I don't think UMass hoops or football would outdraw the Bruins or Celtics or Red Sox, or even come particularly close. NESN gets plenty of eyeballs. CSN too. To the point where it is unlikely UMass would add more.

UMass might be the public flagship, but there aren't many kids in Massachusetts dreaming of growing up and going to UMass, particularly in the Eastern half of the state. Amherst is looked at as in the boonies. And UMass isn't even the best school in Amherst! Academically minded kids dream of going to Harvard or MIT or Amherst or Williams or Tufts or Brandeis or Holy Cross or Boston College or Boston University or .... that list could go on and on and on before hitting UMass. And it would include schools not in Massachusetts like Dartmouth, Brown, Yale, Middlebury, Trinity, Colby, Bates, Bowdoin, etc.

Frankly, the flagship university of greater Boston is probably Red Sox Nation. A mid-December debate about who the Sox' fifth starter will be would probably outdraw UMass football.

[MplsBison]

I don't think UMass hoops or football would outdraw the Bruins or Celtics or Red Sox, or even come particularly close. NESN gets plenty of eyeballs. CSN too. To the point where it is unlikely UMass would add more.

UMass might be the public flagship, but there aren't many kids in Massachusetts dreaming of growing up and going to UMass, particularly in the Eastern half of the state. Amherst is looked at as in the boonies. And UMass isn't even the best school in Amherst! Academically minded kids dream of going to Harvard or MIT or Amherst or Williams or Tufts or Brandeis or Holy Cross or Boston College or Boston University or .... that list could go on and on and on before hitting UMass. And it would include schools not in Massachusetts like Dartmouth, Brown, Yale, Middlebury, Trinity, Colby, Bates, Bowdoin, etc.

Frankly, the flagship university of greater Boston is probably Red Sox Nation. A mid-December debate about who the Sox' fifth starter will be would probably outdraw UMass football.

I can see you're passionate about this subject. It seems almost like you're resentful that UMass (and UConn) left the Yankee League teams to move up to FBS and you would like them to fail at that level completely?

Anyway, I can't and don't refute the following things that you claimed.

- those New England cable channels already get significant Boston viewers from their professional content.

- UMass isn't the best school in eastern Mass or western Mass/academically gifted students would prefer to attend many of the great private schools in the state and New England


What I am arguing is: 1) that UMass is the public flagship in the state of Massachusetts, which contains Boston and I assume many thousands of living UMass alumni, 2) there are many Boston TV households who would tune into those New England cable channels to view UMass content (perhaps more so on days where professional content isn't being shown), 3) such households aren't necessarily headed by formally academically gifted students who preferred to attend great New England private schools and 4) there is significant potential marketing upside to market the AAC in population centers in Mass. and Conn. for a rivalry series between UMass and UConn.

Therefore, those components make a compelling case for the AAC to consider adding UMass, in which they would also consider the negative aspects from that choice.

[bkrownd]

UMass might be the public flagship, but there aren't many kids in Massachusetts dreaming of growing up and going to UMass, particularly in the Eastern half of the state. Amherst is looked at as in the boonies.

We consider being in the "boonies" to be a feature. It's friggen beautiful there! People from the coast talk funny, anyway. Let them attend one of our branch campuses! xblehx xlolx

The State of Boston has their own Land Grant University: MIT

[ccd494]

2) there are many Boston TV households who would tune into those New England cable channels to view UMass content (perhaps more so on days where professional content isn't being shown)

This is what I disagree with. I lived in Boston for 5 years. I don't think I heard a single UMass conversation in a sports bar in those entire five years. No, wait- I heard one about the Jonathan Quick/Jimmy Howard 3 overtime Hockey East title game.

No one in Boston cares about UMass.

[Mattymc727]

No one in Boston cares about UMass.

And why would they? Since 2001, The Patriots have won 3 Bowls, The Red Sox have won 3 World Series, The Celtics and Bruins each grabbed a title too (Not to mention all of those title losses in between for all of them). Meanwhile Umass football has done what in that time period? FCS football is an afterthought in New England in general. FBS football barely makes any noise.

[MplsBison]

Well it's obvious I won't get a rational answer from any Maine or New Hampshire fan when it comes to the topic of UMass and Boston. It makes sense, because Maine and NH have no important cities of their own, so they both adopt Boston as their capital.

Obviously neither of you know every person in the Boston Metro. There are undoubtedly thousands of UMass alumni living there, who would tune into UMass content given a winning team and easy access.


All I was saying is that would be one factor that the AAC would consider. I wasn't making any sort of claim that UMass is a lock for the AAC. I was just saying they may consider them because of that fact. But you won't even give that up, you won't budge.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

All I was saying is that would be one factor that the AAC would consider. I wasn't making any sort of claim that UMass is a lock for the AAC. I was just saying they may consider them because of that fact. But you won't even give that up, you won't budge.

The AAC would consider UMass if they thought they brought value. It seems to me unlikely they would make the same boneheaded mistake the B1G made by looking at a map and saying, "Boy, a lot of Rutgers alums live in NYC, so let's take Rutgers and take over the NYC market!"

First of all, they know their market well - they already have UConn, who actually does own the state of Connecticut and quite probably a pretty decent hunk of Boston as well. Second of all, they know that UMass isn't bringing great football to the AAC, so that's at best a work in progress. Third, getting UMass doesn't really increase market share in most of the Northeast - at best, it gently increases what they already have.

Like I said, if UConn leaves, suddenly they have nothing in the Boston/Conn/NYC area, and UMass would at least be something in that same area with the potential down the road to be like UConn. But as long as UConn is there, there's really no good reason to go out of their way to get UMass, and that's without the white-hot hatred and vindictive attitude that UConn always needs to keep UMass as a second-class citizen.

[Dane96]

It makes sense, because Maine and NH have no important cities of their own, so they both adopt Boston as their capital.

You've written some stupid things in the past however, this takes the cake.

[tribe_pride]

Between this and the Delaware thread, I learned that MplsBison is an expert on all things about New England or at least related to Mass.

[MplsBison]

You've written some stupid things in the past however, this takes the cake.

I guess I'll have to take your word for it that there are zero Maine or UNH alumni living in Boston and that Boston is not the closest, largest, most important urban center near those states.

[MplsBison]

Between this and the Delaware thread, I learned that MplsBison is an expert on all things about New England or at least related to Mass.

From the horse's mouth: I'm not an expert on anything, especially New England or Massachusetts. I've never been to Boston or NYC, which I hope to remedy this summer. The ideas I post about are formed from easily researched facts and surface level intuitions that are induced from them. Anyone with an internet connection could do the same, without having set foot in the region.

FWIW

[MplsBison]

The AAC would consider UMass if they thought they brought value. It seems to me unlikely they would make the same boneheaded mistake the B1G made by looking at a map and saying, "Boy, a lot of Rutgers alums live in NYC, so let's take Rutgers and take over the NYC market!"

First of all, they know their market well - they already have UConn, who actually does own the state of Connecticut and quite probably a pretty decent hunk of Boston as well. Second of all, they know that UMass isn't bringing great football to the AAC, so that's at best a work in progress. Third, getting UMass doesn't really increase market share in most of the Northeast - at best, it gently increases what they already have.

Like I said, if UConn leaves, suddenly they have nothing in the Boston/Conn/NYC area, and UMass would at least be something in that same area with the potential down the road to be like UConn. But as long as UConn is there, there's really no good reason to go out of their way to get UMass, and that's without the white-hot hatred and vindictive attitude that UConn always needs to keep UMass as a second-class citizen.

I agree with everything you say here, except the last part.

UConn having "white-hot hatred and vindictive attitude that UConn always needs to keep UMass as a second-class citizen" makes no sense. It would be like the U of Minn having that same attitude toward NDSU. They're not on the same level.


I think you're incorrectly projecting what might have been a sour relationship between BC and UConn.