Sader87 Rejoices: BC and HC To Play Again in Football

[Lehigh Football Nation]

http://www.goholycross.com/sports/m-footbl/2013-14/releases/20140131au1t0p


Holy Cross and Boston College will meet in two football games, during the 2018 and 2020 seasons, as announced by Holy Cross athletic director Richard M. Regan, Jr., and Boston College athletic director Brad Bates. Both games will be played at Alumni Stadium in Chestnut Hill, Mass., on Sept. 8, 2018, and Sept. 5, 2020.

xthumbsupx

[Bogus Megapardus]

Meh. BC is a has-been. Holy Cross can do better. xsmugx

No, seriously, congratulations to the Crusaders. This is like Lafayette and Lehigh having to wait 30 years between a game.

[DFW HOYA]

Congratulations to the HC fans. Would have liked to see the Eagles at Fitton, but you take what you can get.

So, when is Georgetown getting that game with Maryland? xsmhx

[CrusaderBob]

Sader87 ain't the only one.

Well done by all involved and a nice parting gift from AD Dick Regan who's last day on the job is today.

[Bogus Megapardus]

For *at least* two years . . .

http://www.bceagles.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/013114aaa.html

[Sader87]

Ecstatic...but Jesus it's going to be a long 4 years waiting for the game!!!

[Bogus Megapardus]

Ecstatic...but Jesus it's going to be a long 4 years waiting for the game!!!

Here's a modest proposal - BC schedules HC three out of every five seasons. Whenever HC wins two consecutively in the series, the next game gets played at Fitton.

[Bogus Megapardus]

So, when is Georgetown getting that game with Maryland?

Not in the fight song, are they? Navy is more realistic.

[CFBfan]

Ecstatic...but Jesus it's going to be a long 4 years waiting for the game!!!

the upside to the wait is that you will have a full schollie roster and should be able to play with and even beat the eagles.
i would think that other PL's will begin scheduling up a few years out as well.

[Sader87]

Agreed, not saying we'll beat the Eagles but it will have to help recruiting somewhat having those games on the schedule....best news out of Holy Cross in a very LONG time.

[Go Green]

So, when is Georgetown getting that game with Maryland? xsmhx

Are the Hoyas and Terps playing each other in anything? Last I heard, Maryland refused to play Georgetown in any sport until the Hoyas gave Maryland that return game in basketball from 199-something.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Are the Hoyas and Terps playing each other in anything? Last I heard, Maryland refused to play Georgetown in any sport until the Hoyas gave Maryland that return game in basketball from 199-something.

Maybe they could unite against Dan Snyder and compete in football.... at RFK Stadium.

[CFBfan]

Agreed, not saying we'll beat the Eagles but it will have to help recruiting somewhat having those games on the schedule....best news out of Holy Cross in a very LONG time.

yes, games like this will help recruiting and that should be league wide.
we'll see how others schedule out a couple of years.
gate is already on its way with ball st, navy & vandy the next 3 years and i'd even throw in the likes of u del, unh, etc which they and othe pl's are now scheduling

[Bogus Megapardus]

yes, games like this will help recruiting and that should be league wide.
we'll see how others schedule out a couple of years.
gate is already on its way with ball st, navy & vandy the next 3 years and i'd even throw in the likes of u del, unh, etc which they and othe pl's are now scheduling

Pards have 2016 and 2018 dates with Army plus Temple was rumored at one point.

[CFBfan]

Pards have 2016 and 2018 dates with Army plus Temple was rumored at one point.

with 60 schol's on the roster i think that pl teams should be able to play with/beat the academies, would that possible have them join the pl in football?

[UAalum72]

with 60 schol's on the roster i think that pl teams should be able to play with/beat the academies, would that possible have them join the pl in football?Not as long as they're FBS and the PL is FCS - I don't see either switching subdivisions

[CFBfan]

Not as long as they're FBS and the PL is FCS - I don't see either switching subdivisions

clearly the PL isn't going to the FBS however army and navy are both PL members except for football

[UAalum72]

clearly the PL isn't going to the FBS however army and navy are both PL members except for football
As they have been for many years. And just as clearly, as long as there are only two subdivisions, Army and Navy aren't going to change to the other one.

[Go Green]

As they have been for many years. And just as clearly, as long as there are only two subdivisions, Army and Navy aren't going to change to the other one.

Most of us wouldn't be shocked if Army cried uncle by 2020 or so. They've only beaten Air Force three times since 1988 and have lost 14 straight to Navy. Maybe they should be in the PL for football.

[CFBfan]

As they have been for many years. And just as clearly, as long as there are only two subdivisions, Army and Navy aren't going to change to the other one.

and for those many years the PL has been non schol and now they are schol.

[UAalum72]

and for those many years the PL has been non schol and now they are schol.How does that matter? The PL is FCS and Army ain't going there.


Most of us wouldn't be shocked if Army cried uncle by 2020 or so. They've only beaten Air Force three times since 1988 and have lost 14 straight to Navy. Maybe they should be in the PL for football.Do you think Army will ever not stay with USNA and USAFA? What are they going to do, play the Coast Guard?

[Sader87]

I think this is the "last chance" for West Point with the Monken hire. They seem to be "going all in" this time.

I think it's ultimately inevitable that both Army and Navy will play at a level like the PL or be in the PL officially...whether that's 5, 10 or 20 years from now who knows?

[Go Green]

Do you think Army will ever not stay with USNA and USAFA? What are they going to do, play the Coast Guard?

Just because they join the PL doesn't mean that they can't continue to play Navy and Air Force. If they join the PL, all they're doing is substiuting the Western Kentucky and Eastern Michigan games for Colgate and Holy Cross games.

If the concern is dropping down to FCS will convey that they are inferior programs to Navy and AF... well... they're kind of already done that by losing 29 of the last 30 games against those guys (or something like that).

[Go Green]

I think this is the "last chance" for West Point with the Monken hire. They seem to be "going all in" this time.



I agree. If Army is still the same program by say, 2020, Army will consider all options available to it and decide then. Nothing will be "off the table."

If somehow, Monken is able to get Army to bowl games, then they will stay at FBS. I'm not expect it though. If he proves me wrong, all power to him.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

USMA, USNA, and USAFA use football as a national recruiting tool. As long as the commander-in-chief and the leaders those branches of the military feel like those football games are a valuable recruiting tool, they will continue to be played.

Competing in the Patriot League in football does not further this goal of playing nationally for recruiting officers.

It is possible by 2020 that the generals decide that, after more than a decade of embarrassing losses to USNA and USAFA, that they no longer decide that football is a worthwhile recruiting tool. But I don't see a scenario where the generals decide that dropping to FCS and competing in the Patriot League furthers those goals.

[Sader87]

I think Army and Navy have used that "nation-wide recruiting" excuse as a crutch to stay FBS. They would recruit just as well nationally playing in the PL imo. Most of the PL and Ivy rosters are filled with players from all over the country.

I can understand that they want to stay FBS for pride's-sake but in reality both Army and Navy should have been reclassified 1-AA when the Ivies, HC and Colgate were in the early 80s.

[DFW HOYA]

I think it's ultimately inevitable that both Army and Navy will play at a level like the PL or be in the PL officially...whether that's 5, 10 or 20 years from now who knows?

Beware of "inevitable". All those in 20 years ago who had Colorado in what used to be the Pac-10 and West Virginia in the current iteration of the Big 8, step forward.

[ngineer]

the upside to the wait is that you will have a full schollie roster and should be able to play with and even beat the eagles.
i would think that other PL's will begin scheduling up a few years out as well.

Already in progress. PL schools have been 'in discussions' with a number of FBS schools in the northeast: Syracuse, UConn, Rutgers, Navy, Army, Buffalo, Pitt. Not sure if any one would be lucky enough to get a gig at Beaver Stadium.

[CrusaderBob]

Told you. Looks like Tweet from Burke Magnus ESPN's senior vice president for college sports programming (and Holy Cross '88) is rejoicing too!




“@EyeOnCFB (https://twitter.com/EyeOnCFB): BC-Holy Cross to renew classic rivalry in 2018, 2020 http://cbsprt.co/1lqrFY9 (http://t.co/SCqMg8dJNs)”

It is not possible for me to retweet this enough. Burke Magnus (@burkemagnus)

[Sader87]

Beware of "inevitable". All those in 20 years ago who had Colorado in what used to be the Pac-10 and West Virginia in the current iteration of the Big 8, step forward.

The thing is, Army and Navy are just different than say West Virginia or Colorado. On top of preparing to play D1 football, they are training to become our top officers in the military simultaneously. As the FBS becomes ever closer to the de facto minor league NFL, the less the SA's will have anything in common with that level. The student bodies at Army and Navy resemble the student bodies of Holy Cross and Dartmouth much more than they do the vast, vast majority of FBS schools.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

I think Army and Navy have used that "nation-wide recruiting" excuse as a crutch to stay FBS. They would recruit just as well nationally playing in the PL imo. Most of the PL and Ivy rosters are filled with players from all over the country.

I can understand that they want to stay FBS for pride's-sake but in reality both Army and Navy should have been reclassified 1-AA when the Ivies, HC and Colgate were in the early 80s.

Navy is a very respectable football program. They've notched numerous wins a few FBS big boys and produced a couple of Top 25 seasons. They'd be insane to go FCS imo. Likewise with Air Force. These two academies also have very strong ties to Notre Dame. The Irish were in Colorado Springs this past year.

Army might make sense from a competitive stand point but overall I don't see why they would do it. Michie Stadium is an absolute destination in the fall. People with no association to Army or their opponent will travel to West Point for a football game because it's an event at the highest level. I don't think people will be taking day trips to West Point if the Black Knights drop down. You can always find bus trips to the academies in the fall. That type of demand would not exist if they were playing a steady diet of FCS opponents.

[Pard4Life]

WOW! Looks like Sader87 will be tuning into a season (and not skipping it) for the first time since 1987 come 2018!

[Sader87]

WOW! Looks like Sader87 will be tuning into a season (and not skipping it) for the first time since 1987 come 2018!

lol....that's untrue, I freely admit I took an HC football sabbatical from about 1993-2004 but I've either gone or watched on TV/internet the vast majority of HC football games the last decade or so.

[UNHWildcat18]

I'll live to 200 years of age before ARMY or NAVY go to FCS.

[Sader87]

I'll live to 200 years of age before ARMY or NAVY go to FCS.

God willing, may you live that long.

It'll be interesting. The trends of college football in general doesn't favor the SA's remaining at the FBS-level. It's becoming ever more "professionalized," they really aren't lighting the FBS world on fire now despite Navy's relative success this past decade etc. Army has been beaten (badly in some cases...UNH being one) by multiple FCS schools over the past decade.

I just don't see a robust future for all the SA's at the FBS-level moving forward. They can remain viable, as Navy has done, by scheduling smartly but I just don't think that is sustainable in the long-term.

[Fordham]

Congrats Saders! That's awesome

[Ivytalk]

Which school has higher SAT scores now? HC or BC? Just askin'....

[Sader87]

Which school has higher SAT scores now? HC or BC? Just askin'....

Let's just say that they have more nerds per capita than we do now....xsmiley_wix

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

God willing, may you live that long.

It'll be interesting. The trends of college football in general doesn't favor the SA's remaining at the FBS-level. It's becoming ever more "professionalized," they really aren't lighting the FBS world on fire now despite Navy's relative success this past decade etc. Army has been beaten (badly in some cases...UNH being one) by multiple FCS schools over the past decade.

I just don't see a robust future for all the SA's at the FBS-level moving forward. They can remain viable, as Navy has done, by scheduling smartly but I just don't think that is sustainable in the long-term.

I believe the SA's will remain in the level just behind what we know today as the BCS. Unless of course you Patriot folks can ensure them that you can help fill the 35-40K capacity stadiums in Annapolis and West Point. Otherwise, I see them continuing to play MAC, Sun Belt and CUSA as well as traditional games against the likes of Notre Dame, Stanford and schools like Rice, Vanderbilt, Duke, Northwestern.

[Go...gate]

Congratulations to the HC fans. Would have liked to see the Eagles at Fitton, but you take what you can get.

So, when is Georgetown getting that game with Maryland? xsmhx

Any chance of Navy-Georgetown? That game sounds like a natural - the District and DelMarVa!!

[Go Green]

USMA, USNA, and USAFA use football as a national recruiting tool. As long as the commander-in-chief and the leaders those branches of the military feel like those football games are a valuable recruiting tool, they will continue to be played.

Competing in the Patriot League in football does not further this goal of playing nationally for recruiting officers.


I'm no expert, but I'm havnig a really hard time imagining a scenario when some high school football player is considering commiting to Army and the attendant six years of military service because they play FBS football... but saying "screw it, I'm going to sign with Directional State U" if Army joins the PL in football.

[Pard4Life]

Army and Navy football are not going anywhere. Navy would not have moved to the AAC (or whatever), for one.

[Sader87]

I don't think Army or Navy (or Air Force) are going to choose to go FCS but it may be dictated to them by outside forces i.e. the Big 5 conferences pulling away from FBS/NCAA etc.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The USMA and USNA are in one of the sweetest spots in college athletics: independent in football, so they travel all across the country, with essentially their own TV contract that all goes to them. PL in everything else, thus saving money on non-revenue generating sports, while still offering national exposure in men's basketball with national tournaments (which is, essentially what everyone in Division I is doing nowadays anyway).

If the "Big 5" broke away and said to the USMA and USNA that they can't compete in football - can you imagine the PR disaster that would be for the "Big 5"?

[PAllen]

with 60 schol's on the roster i think that pl teams should be able to play with/beat the academies, would that possible have them join the pl in football?

No. Notre Dame will be scheduling home and homes with the University of the Chicago first.

[PAllen]

Look guys. The Army-Navy game alone could (and may, I'm just too lazy to look it up) sell more tickets than every PL FB Teams' games combined. Army and Navy (to a lessor extent) may be small fish in the FBS Ocean, but have you ever seen what they have going in person? Navy's spring game gets more people than Lehigh-Lafayette. I'm glad to be associated with the academies as much as we are, but there is zero chance of us competing on the same level on the FB field. I can just imagine the March on at the MSF.

[Sader87]

Firstly, I have all the respect in the world for the SA's but to say they are playing at a "much higher level" than a scholarship PL is a bit hyperbolic. I know it's a different HC than it was in the 80s to a certain extent, but HC regularly beat Army in the 1970s and 1980s. Colgate beat West Point on occasion then as well and I know Lafayette gave them some tough games then too.

I do think, Army at least, will start scheduling more and more PL schools (and already have) moving forward.

[Pard4Life]

Look guys. The Army-Navy game alone could (and may, I'm just too lazy to look it up) sell more tickets than every PL FB Teams' games combined. Army and Navy (to a lessor extent) may be small fish in the FBS Ocean, but have you ever seen what they have going in person? Navy's spring game gets more people than Lehigh-Lafayette. I'm glad to be associated with the academies as much as we are, but there is zero chance of us competing on the same level on the FB field. I can just imagine the March on at the MSF.

Army-Navy game: 64,000
All Lafayette games: 45,000... so, no...

And, Lafayette-Lehigh will be before 54,000, likely xcoffeex

Whenever I watch the Army-Navy game on TV, it looks like there are only about 30,000 in the stands. It's never full.

[DFW HOYA]

Whenever I watch the Army-Navy game on TV, it looks like there are only about 30,000 in the stands. It's never full.

I've been to only two Army-Navy games (one at the Vet, one at LFF) and they were both full. Great turnouts.

(How many tickets will be bought for Leh/Laf merely for posterity's sake and never used?)

[PAllen]

Army-Navy game: 64,000
All Lafayette games: 45,000... so, no...

And, Lafayette-Lehigh will be before 54,000, likely xcoffeex

Whenever I watch the Army-Navy game on TV, it looks like there are only about 30,000 in the stands. It's never full.

Army/Navy could easily sell 100K+ tickets every year if there were such a stadium in the area. The game is easily sold out every year including years in stadiums with 80K+ capacities. Nice try, but your attempted cherry pick just proves my point: The biggest game in Patriot League history will have 15% fewer folks than a below average Army/Navy Game. And we haven't even begun to discuss Navy/Notre Dame. Army and Navy are not going to play football in the Patriot League. Sure, in their hayday, Colgate and Holy Cross could beat Army team that was in the doldrums. Honestly, the best in the PL could hang with one of the academies even now. That doesn't mean that the Army and Navy FB programs are not light years beyond anything in the PL.

Who's next, the boys in Happy Valley? Or, does our historical success over the boys on the Raritan make Rutgers a better fit. xrolleyesx

[Sader87]

Admittedly HC beat some down Army teams in the 70s but they beat some decent ones in the 80s too. They really aren't recruiting at a much higher level than us right now.

I agree that they would join the PL only after much kicking and screaming but as I said earlier, the decision in time might be out of their hands if the trends of FBS football continue.

[Franks Tanks]

Army/Navy could easily sell 100K+ tickets every year if there were such a stadium in the area. The game is easily sold out every year including years in stadiums with 80K+ capacities. Nice try, but your attempted cherry pick just proves my point: The biggest game in Patriot League history will have 15% fewer folks than a below average Army/Navy Game. And we haven't even begun to discuss Navy/Notre Dame. Army and Navy are not going to play football in the Patriot League. Sure, in their hayday, Colgate and Holy Cross could beat Army team that was in the doldrums. Honestly, the best in the PL could hang with one of the academies even now. That doesn't mean that the Army and Navy FB programs are not light years beyond anything in the PL.

Who's next, the boys in Happy Valley? Or, does our historical success over the boys on the Raritan make Rutgers a better fit. xrolleyesx


Army and Navy get good attendance and the Army/Navy game is a big deal, but they are largely irrelevant in FBS college football. Navy has had a great run of late, but that is an anomoly as Navy has generally been terrible post WWII. In some ways the ever expanding bottom of the FBS world has helped them greatly as they cobble together a schedule with a few big game, and the worst teams in FBS.

By the way the best of the PL could do more than just hang with Army and possibly Navy. There haven't been a ton of SA/PL games recently, but in 2002 Holy Cross beat Army. The 2002 Saders went 4-8 and lost to Lafayette 42-13.

Sader 87 is completely correct in saying that the SA's play with FCS talent. UNH and Stony Brook just crushed Army when they played in recent years. Scholarship PL teams should do very well against Army and maybe even Navy.

I will agree however that they aren't moving down. They value home games against Stanford (Army in 2013) and games with Notre dame too much. Army can go 3-9 for the next 20 years (and they may) but will keep on keeping on.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The biggest game in Patriot League history will have 15% fewer folks than a below average Army/Navy Game.


In front of 69,607 fans and Vice President Joe Biden at Lincoln Financial Field, Navy caught a break when Army missed a late field goal attempt.

Read More: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/ncaa/gameflash/2012/12/08/49957/index.html#ixzz2sN5iATVS


15% less than 69,607 = 59,166 fans. I don't know how many more tickets Lehigh/Lafayette 150 will sell, but it sure as hell ain't out of the realm of possibility that it will top 60,000 fans. And it's already well on the way towards eclipsing last year's Pinstripe Bowl announced attendance in the same venue, which featured Rutgers and Notre Dame.

[DFW HOYA]

I don't know how many more tickets Lehigh/Lafayette 150 will sell, but it sure as hell ain't out of the realm of possibility that it will top 60,000 fans.

60,000 fans, or simply 60,000 tickets sold? Are there that many alumni of the schools that will actually attend (as opposed to buying a keepsake ticket), considering Yankee Stadium is not a likely walk-up venue for casual fans who will be watching other games that day.

[Franks Tanks]

Read More: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/ncaa/gameflash/2012/12/08/49957/index.html#ixzz2sN5iATVS


15% less than 69,607 = 59,166 fans. I don't know how many more tickets Lehigh/Lafayette 150 will sell, but it sure as hell ain't out of the realm of possibility that it will top 60,000 fans. And it's already well on the way towards eclipsing last year's Pinstripe Bowl announced attendance in the same venue, which featured Rutgers and Notre Dame.


Also he makes the point that Army/Navy would sell 100k tickets if possible for the game, while completely ignoring that fact that Lafayette/Lehigh could sell many more tickets as well. The demand for 150 has been tremendous. I wouldn't expect Laf/Leh to sell 50k seats every year if we had a stadium that could accomodate, but 25-30k would be reasonable in most years.

[Franks Tanks]

60,000 fans, or simply 60,000 tickets sold? Are there that many alumni of the schools that will actually attend (as opposed to buying a keepsake ticket), considering Yankee Stadium is not a likely walk-up venue for casual fans who will be watching other games that day.

Who buys a ticket for a keepsake? People are breaking the ticket ordering websites when tickets are made available. Some may not show up come gameday for one reason or another, but I expect most ticket holders to actually show up.

[PAllen]

Read More: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/ncaa/gameflash/2012/12/08/49957/index.html#ixzz2sN5iATVS


15% less than 69,607 = 59,166 fans. I don't know how many more tickets Lehigh/Lafayette 150 will sell, but it sure as hell ain't out of the realm of possibility that it will top 60,000 fans. And it's already well on the way towards eclipsing last year's Pinstripe Bowl announced attendance in the same venue, which featured Rutgers and Notre Dame.

Look, I hope 150 is a huge success. That said, seating capacity for the new Yankee Stadium for FB is 54K. I think that does put it out of the realm of possibility that it will top 60,000 fans.

[Sader87]

We're both playing BC in football in 2018 and coulda been in the Big East in basketball in 1978. xrotatehx

The fact of the matter is that both Army and Navy, very much like the Ivy League, probably should (or could) have dropped down to 1-AA in the early 80s as both the SA's and the Ivies gridiron glories on the national stage pre-date the advent of color television. This actually came close to fruition then but they chose to stick it out in 1-A.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Look, I hope 150 is a huge success. That said, seating capacity for the new Yankee Stadium for FB is 54K. I think that does put it out of the realm of possibility that it will top 60,000 fans.

So 15% less than Army/Navy is a sellout of Yankee Stadium. Thanks for clarifying.

[Bogus Megapardus]

What was BC's stadium like pre-Flutie?

[Sader87]

What was BC's stadium like pre-Flutie?

Top of my head Bogey, Alumni was built in '57 around 26K....it expanded to about 32.5K in the 60s sometime...stayed that way until after Flutie and is now about 44K.

[Sader87]

http://www.bceagles.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/alumni-stadium.html

I was pretty close...went to 32K, lights, turf in '71. It was actually kind of a funky stadium then...wrap around wooden bleachers in one end zone, no upper decks, kinda like Fitton now...big home side etc....they had a game-clock with big and little hands. Some great memories of going to games there as a kid in the 70s.

[Sader87]

18826Scoreboard and wooden bleachers I mentioned above....

[Bogus Megapardus]

http://www.bceagles.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/alumni-stadium.html

I was pretty close...went to 32K, lights, turf in '71. It was actually kind of a funky stadium then...wrap around wooden bleachers in one end zone, no upper decks, kinda like Fitton now...big home side etc....they had a game-clock with big and little hands. Some great memories of going to games there as a kid in the 70s.

I couldn't find any old pictures but I was going to say that it might have looked a lot like Fitton looks now, based on the configuration of the lower section.