Big Sky to FBS?

[thebootfitter]

Flying from DFW to SLC on my way to SEA after the natty in Frisco, I sat across from the commissioner of the Big Sky Conference, Doug Fullerton. We chatted a bit about the game, about NDSU and EWU, and about the FCS.

At one point, he hinted that he has been looking into taking the Big Sky conference to the next level as a whole entity. He suggested that if not all schools were ready for the move up, the conference is large enough to split into two: One FBS, one FCS. He did not mention timing, and I didn't press.

I can't imagine that he would tell this to a total stranger on an airplane if it wasn't common knowledge of at least a possibility.

Thoughts? Has anyone here heard of this?

[Texas]

Bull****.

Who out side of the Montanas would be FBS ready?

[thebootfitter]

Bull****.

Who out side of the Montanas would be FBS ready?
Are you calling bs on me? Or the commish? I'm just reporting a conversation, friend.

I don't think any of them are ready at the moment. All of them would need more funding and better facilities. It could be a twenty year plan for all I know.

[Texas]

You.

[thebootfitter]

You.
Ah, I see. GFY. :p

No joke.

[BisonBacker]

Sorry man but no conference commissioner is going to have that discussion on an airplane with a total stranger. That one doesn't even require a smell test

[thebootfitter]

Sorry man but no conference commissioner is going to have that discussion on an airplane with a total stranger. That one doesn't even require a smell test
Sorry man. He did. I don't blame you that it sounds odd to you. I found it odd myself. But dat's what happened. No joke.

[FargoBison]

Sorry man but no conference commissioner is going to have that discussion on an airplane with a total stranger. That one doesn't even require a smell test

He's talked about this before to the media...

[TennBison]

Sorry man but no conference commissioner is going to have that discussion on an airplane with a total stranger. That one doesn't even require a smell test
That sounds very odd to me as well. Chances of that conversation actually happening are less than 1% even if the guy sitting next to you really is the comish. Just not the sort of thing they are going to discuss with your average Joe Blow to kill time on a 2 hour flight. I mean how do you even start that conversation out of the blue, you know????

[caribbeanhen]

That sounds very odd to me as well. Chances of that conversation actually happening are less than 1% even if the guy sitting next to you really is the comish. Just not the sort of thing they are going to discuss with your average Joe Blow to kill time on a 2 hour flight. I mean how do you even start that conversation out of the blue, you know????

don't call the commish Joe Blow.... what a lack of respect

[tribe_pride]

Under current rules, teams are not allowed to go FBS unless they are invited by an FBS conference which would mean that a conference can't just go up as a whole.

[TennBison]

don't call the commish Joe Blow.... what a lack of respect
I'll call the commish whatever I want, but in this case the reference to a Joe Blow was not the commish, but the guy he would be talking to.

[kalm]

Having watched a game with thebootfitter I can guarantee he's not the kind to make **** up. The amount of douchiness in this thread is not surprising though.xnodx

Why wouldn't Fullerton talk about it? Realignment is on everyone's mind and it's a big influence on his job. It's not as though he's talking about some super double top secret master plan. It's simply a possibility.

Whiney bitches. xlolx

[caribbeanhen]

I'll call the commish whatever I want, but in this case the reference to a Joe Blow was not the commish, but the guy he would be talking to.

no explanation needed, I posted that in defense of bootfitter, but you probably knew that rightxthumbsupx

[TennBison]

Under current rules, teams are not allowed to go FBS unless they are invited by an FBS conference which would mean that a conference can't just go up as a whole.
Not that I know the rules, but I am sure that a conference could go to the NCAA and request to go FBS. Think of it, the NCAA would have a conference as a whole that is ready to move up. 8-9 + teams that have already done all the leg work to move up. The NCAA only needs to approve it and at no cost to the NCAA as well. The new conference could sink or swim as far as the NCAA is concerned, if it does well they would have secured TV contracts and the whole gambit of other things, and if they fail, oh well they go back to the FCS.
I am not saying this is sure fire thing, what I am suggesting is that it is an interesting idea to have a full conference ready to move up and that it would be very easy for the NCAA to allow it.

[Wallace]

Anyone who knows Doug Fullerton would realize this kind of conversation is not out of the question. Doug is a straight shooter that will talk all kinds of things. Doesn't mean that anything is on the verge of happening but it has come up in media conversations before.

[Herder]

The Big Sky would never be given he OK to become an FBS conference while the current FBS exists with all 127 teams.
The current FBS structure seems to be committed to one Championship level at 85 scholarships for the next 10 years.
I would expect some adjustment from 4 to 8 to 12 to their championship field as time goes on.
Fullerton like to hear himself talk, and seems to have an inflated opinion of the Big Sky.
To go FBS, you have to join an existing conf, period. What part of this don't people understand.

[SDFS]

He's talked about this before to the media...

Agreed I have heard this in the media from Fullerton before, the question is "How do you do this". I believe most of the media reports were in the context of staying at the second level of college football during a realignment not moving up a level. NOTE: I am not saying that this is about to or will ever happen.

[Grizzlies82]

That sounds very odd to me as well. Chances of that conversation actually happening are less than 1% even if the guy sitting next to you really is the comish. Just not the sort of thing they are going to discuss with your average Joe Blow to kill time on a 2 hour flight. I mean how do you even start that conversation out of the blue, you know????

I have no reason to doubt the story. The actual prospects of the Big Sky going FBS "are less than 1%". However, the prospects of the Commissioner discussing it are about 100%. He has consistently expressed concerns about the long term viability of the FCS, and spoken of the likelihood of change. So don't hold your breath for the "FBS Announcement" but realize that is one option in mind.

[darell1976]

Flying from DFW to SLC on my way to SEA after the natty in Frisco, I sat across from the commissioner of the Big Sky Conference, Doug Fullerton. We chatted a bit about the game, about NDSU and EWU, and about the FCS.

At one point, he hinted that he has been looking into taking the Big Sky conference to the next level as a whole entity. He suggested that if not all schools were ready for the move up, the conference is large enough to split into two: One FBS, one FCS. He did not mention timing, and I didn't press.

I can't imagine that he would tell this to a total stranger on an airplane if it wasn't common knowledge of at least a possibility.

Thoughts? Has anyone here heard of this?

http://www.bigskyconf.com/news/2013/6/10/GEN_0610132516.aspx


@eber4 (https://twitter.com/EBER4) We would rather not split our league. If FBS is the proper place to go, then taking all teams FBS provides more stability. #AskBigSky (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23AskBigSky&src=hash)

That was DF answering a question about the BSC splitting into FBS and FCS.

I am thinking its when the Super 5 split and teams in the upper FCS move up. The teams that are FBS ready now in terms of stadium capacity (15,000 rule) are Montana, Montana St, Portland St, Sac State, and Weber State. I think given the chance to move up (if there was no attendance rule) UND would definitely go. There was to much backlash from fans, etc, when the administration in 2004 let NDSU, and SDSU move up while we stayed DII. I don't think that would happen a second time. As for talking to Fullerton, that would be cool.

[BisonHype!]

If the BCS conference teams were to make a new division, then I can see the Big Sky splitting and forming a new conference into the 2nd tier of football. If the BCS conference split occurs, there would be more football divisions and NDSU would not be content being at the 3rd tier. I can't imagine top FCS programs wanting to be at the 3rd tier. You can compete with the mid major conferences that are left and that next level in football. If BCS pulls away, I see that as a real possibility.

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[AmsterBison]

Agreed I have heard this in the media from Fullerton before, the question is "How do you do this". I believe most of the media reports were in the context of staying at the second level of college football during a realignment not moving up a level. NOTE: I am not saying that this is about to or will ever happen.

Do you think the FBS is going to remove the 15k attendance requirement? Seems like if the Big Sky went FBS, they'd be doing it without UND.

It's good that the Big Sky is thinking about it though. I know the MVFC should have a plan in place. There are a lot of MVFC teams that have talked about it in the past and there have been a lot of stadium upgrades going on. Of course, if the Big Sky was serious about upgrading football, they would have invited SDSU and NDSU instead of Northern Colorado, Southern Utah, UND, and USD.

[BisonHype!]

Do you think the FBS is going to remove the 15k attendance requirement? Seems like if the Big Sky went FBS, they'd be doing it without UND.

It's good that the Big Sky is thinking about it though. I know the MVFC should have a plan in place. There are a lot of MVFC teams that have talked about it in the past and there have been a lot of stadium upgrades going on. Of course, if the Big Sky was serious about upgrading football, they would have invited SDSU and NDSU instead of Northern Colorado, Southern Utah, UND, and USD.

Like Darrell said before, UND does not want to get left behind again. That being said, if the BCS pulls away, I don't see them lowering their standard requirements to the point where UND is eligible at this point. Only 5 programs in the Big Sky would probably be eligible. They would then have to look the way of Idaho and NDSU and UNI to make the jump with them in my opinion. It is not without flaw, and not something I researched... just an opinion.

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[TennBison]

The Big Sky would never be given he OK to become an FBS conference while the current FBS exists with all 127 teams.
The current FBS structure seems to be committed to one Championship level at 85 scholarships for the next 10 years.
I would expect some adjustment from 4 to 8 to 12 to their championship field as time goes on.
Fullerton like to hear himself talk, and seems to have an inflated opinion of the Big Sky.
To go FBS, you have to join an existing conf, period. What part of this don't people understand.

I am not saying that the Big Sky is the conference that should try something like that. I am not even saying that any conference should or that any are/would be ready at this time. I believe the rule of joining an existing FBS conference in order to move up is in place to keep schools from needing to go independent and giving them a better chance to succeed. My point is and I believe the NCAA has never had it happen before is, what if a whole FCS conference wanted to move up and was prepared to make a whole new conference in doing so. Is anyone aware of a case where this was brought up to the NCAA before. To the best of my knowledge the only time teams have tried to move up was on an individual basis and not as a whole conference. Or maybe even a mix of 9-10 teams from both the MVC and BS could get together and do it.

[Grizzlies82]

Like Darrell said before, UND does not want to get left behind again. That being said, if the BCS pulls away, I don't see them lowering their standard requirements to the point where UND is eligible at this point. Only 5 programs in the Big Sky would probably be eligible. They would then have to look the way of Idaho and NDSU and UNI to make the jump with them in my opinion. It is not without flaw, and not something I researched... just an opinion.

The Big Sky will never move up under the current configuration. So seating requirements may, or may not, have any bearing on things. Any transition to FBS would be AFTER the long anticipated FBS reorganization, ie... the separation of the Big Dogs from the rest of the pack. Only after that will the Big Sky (or portions of it) realign into the new 2nd tier with the 'rest of the pack' conferences such as the MAC, Sun Belt, etc...

In all likelihood, because of financial issues not all the Big Sky teams, nor all teams in other FCS conferences, would make the jump up. It is likely to be a piecemeal process of the 'top' FCS teams nationwide joining the yet to be created, and yet to be named, NOT THE BIG DOGS level of NCAA football. Stadium seating issues, scholarship numbers, and similar issues will be at a lower level than the top tier yet still high enough to deter some FCS schools from participating.

[TennBison]

I have no reason to doubt the story. The actual prospects of the Big Sky going FBS "are less than 1%". However, the prospects of the Commissioner discussing it are about 100%. He has consistently expressed concerns about the long term viability of the FCS, and spoken of the likelihood of change. So don't hold your breath for the "FBS Announcement" but realize that is one option in mind.
I am not talking about the chances that the commish has had a conversation about moving to the FBS being less than 1%. I am saying he is not about to have that conversation with some guy that just happened to be sitting next to him on the plane. I am sure the commish has discussed it with people who are in the system or powers that be, just not a Joe Blow guy from who knows where. That is the part of the story I have trouble believing.

[BisonHype!]

I am not talking about the chances that the commish has had a conversation about moving to the FBS being less than 1%. I am saying he is not about to have that conversation with some guy that just happened to be sitting next to him on the plane. I am sure the commish has discussed it with people who are in the system or powers that be, just not a Joe Blow guy from who knows where. That is the part of the story I have trouble believing.

I don't get why TennBison is getting ripped so badly on something that Fullerton has openly said before. While it may seem unlikely, and won't happen under the current NCAA configuration....I wouldn't dismiss this happening if the 5 BCS conferences form a new division. That was the question posed to Fullerton, and they have a potential plan in place, meaning it has been kicked around. Not likely, but also not impossible.

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[Bisonator]

Fullerton doesn't have a clue. His inability to get NDSU and SDSU into the BSC, then does an insane move by admitting UND without a travel partner clearly proved that and now he keeps this dream in his head that he can take his conference to the FBS as a whole. No way in heck the NCAA controlled by the current fraternity of bigger BCS schools will ever allow that to happen. Not to mention that only 2-3 teams in the BSC would have any chance at succeeding in an FBS move. I serious question his sanity at this point not to mention everyone who buys what he's trying to sell.

[darell1976]

Fullerton doesn't have a clue. His inability to get NDSU and SDSU into the BSC, then does an insane move by admitting UND without a travel partner clearly proved that and now he keeps this dream in his head that he can take his conference to the FBS as a whole. No way in heck the NCAA controlled by the current fraternity of bigger BCS schools will ever allow that to happen. Not to mention that only 2-3 teams in the BSC would have any chance at succeeding in an FBS move. I serious question his sanity at this point not to mention everyone who buys what he's trying to sell.

UND had a travel partner until the Yotes backed out and got a deal by the MVFC.

[IBleedYellow]

I thought this was common knowledge? That he wants to move up whether it meant breaking his conference apart or not.

I remember him having an interview just last year in which he stated just this. If the Big Sky sets itself up for the best conference to do this, they can be gone in 10 years at the earliest.


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[darell1976]

I thought this was common knowledge? That he wants to move up whether it meant breaking his conference apart or not.

I remember him having an interview just last year in which he stated just this. If the Big Sky sets itself up for the best conference to do this, they can be gone in 10 years at the earliest.


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I remember Fullerton saying he wanted to move up the conference "only" after the super 5 split. The BSC won't do this with the current FBS.

[Green26]

Under current rules, teams are not allowed to go FBS unless they are invited by an FBS conference which would mean that a conference can't just go up as a whole.

Apparently, the WAC could be revived as an FBS conference within a small number of years (like 2 or 3, I think). If the BS could get control of the WAC charter, they could use it to "move up" as a conference.

[Green26]

Fullerton doesn't have a clue. His inability to get NDSU and SDSU into the BSC, then does an insane move by admitting UND without a travel partner clearly proved that and now he keeps this dream in his head that he can take his conference to the FBS as a whole. No way in heck the NCAA controlled by the current fraternity of bigger BCS schools will ever allow that to happen. Not to mention that only 2-3 teams in the BSC would have any chance at succeeding in an FBS move. I serious question his sanity at this point not to mention everyone who buys what he's trying to sell.

It was various Big Sky schools (AD's and presidents) that turned down NDSU and SDSU, not Fullerton. Mainly due to concerns about travel costs.

Fullerton and the Big Sky invited UND and USD to the conference at the same time, not just UND. USD needed to get approval of its regents, I believe, and that required that the offer be made public. Then MV quickly made an offer, and USD decided to join the MV. UM's president, Engstrom, the former provost at USD, insisted on the offer to USD. He made the call to USD to make the offer.

[Bisonator]

It was various Big Sky schools (AD's and presidents) that turned down NDSU and SDSU, not Fullerton. Mainly due to concerns about travel costs.

Fullerton and the Big Sky invited UND and USD to the conference at the same time, not just UND. USD needed to get approval of its regents, I believe, and that required that the offer be made public. Then MV quickly made an offer, and USD decided to join the MV. UM's president, Engstrom, the former provost at USD, insisted on the offer to USD. He made the call to USD to make the offer.

Again Fullerton didn't do his job in swaying all the presidents. Once USD was out they should have retracted the offer to UND, they still had that opportunity.

Tell me which 8 BSC schools are FBS ready??? I will give you UM, MSU and maybe NAU. Please tell me the others???

[Twentysix]

In what world is NAU ready? UC-Davis is more likely to be an FBS school than NAU imo.

I would think NAU is in a similar situation to UNI. Which is to say, neither are likely to sniff FBS for a long time, they are the long forgotten 3rd program in a medium size state trapped in a dome that is too small.

Flagstaff is a little town like bismarck that is proped up on Grand canyon tourists.

Davis is a bike ride from Sacramento (2.6 million population metro & there is literally a bike path from Sacramento to downtown davis), which has no FBS or NFL team. Also NAU is in a tiny dome like UND, where as UC-Davis could easily have a massive expansion on their current stadium. And UC-Davis has 26,000 undergrads; 31k with grads which is surely enough. NAU has a decent sized enrollment but it is split amongst a few campuses.

I would speculate that Davis could be a MWC school if they really desired, like Montana could be. Montana just has more in place atm, but Davis has the growth capacity and the California factor.

[centennial]

The only way this works if there is a Big Sky/ MVFC, Idaho hybrid that takes on the WAC. Even then I am not sure WAC can be revived after a few years of being inactive.

[MplsBison]

A few things:

1) the idea of moving the Big Sky up as a split football conference is nothing new. It has been discussed on here before and perhaps in the media.

2) you gotta be friggin' kidding me that some rando on a plane is going to decide to impersonate the commissioner of the Big Sky conference just to have a conversation with some stranger. LOL "you guys! I totally had this guy convinced on the plane that I was Doug Fullerton and that the Big Sky was moving up!!! Tee hee!!"

3) there is not 15k attendance requirement for FBS!!!!!!!! Get that through your skulls! ------> Eastern Michigan. Thank you.

[Green26]

Again Fullerton didn't do his job in swaying all the presidents. Once USD was out they should have retracted the offer to UND, they still had that opportunity.

Tell me which 8 BSC schools are FBS ready??? I will give you UM, MSU and maybe NAU. Please tell me the others???

Haha. Executive directors aren't doing their job unless they persuade their bosses and boards of directors to do what the executive director wants? You must not have much experience with companies and organizations.

Offers like this can almost never be made conditional. That's not the way its done. The offer loses its strength and credibility. And no one expected the MV will change its mind and make an offer, nor USD to accept it.

[MplsBison]

Portland St has a good market and stadium. Within reason, so does Sac. UC Davis definitely has the academic pedigree and money to be in the major leagues.

[Twentysix]

Portland St has a good market and stadium. Within reason, so does Sac. UC Davis definitely has the academic pedigree and money to be in the major leagues.

Sac is such an after thought in Sacramento. They seem unlikely when pitted against UC Davis.

Portland State is a possibility, but they are in a similar situation to UNI and NAU. The only thing they have as an advantage is the MLS stadium.

[bojeta]

Are you calling bs on me? Or the commish? I'm just reporting a conversation, friend.

I don't think any of them are ready at the moment. All of them would need more funding and better facilities. It could be a twenty year plan for all I know.

As FargoBison mentioned, he has talked about this before, so no surprise regarding the "discussion". As for it being likely.... I doubt anytime in the next five years. As for any teams being ready.... both Montana schools have facilities better than many FBS teams. Sac State has capacity, Weber State is close, Cal Poly, and Davis have the mindset, and future expansion plans, but current seating is only about 60-70% of the minimum required, and additional training facilities would be required. EWU seems to have the commitment necessary. NAU's dome could probably meet the minimum seating requirement. Idaho would likely accept an offer from an FBS Big Sky. That would put the starting field at around 6-7 teams allowing for a couple of temporary fudges on numbers (long FBS history of that).

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I'm not disputing the conversation, but as the rules stand now, the option to "move the conference up" does not exist as the rules and definitions of the NCAA of FCS and FBS teams.

Basically, to become an FBS-sponsoring conference, you need to have six (or maybe seven) schools in it that are already FBS. The only way for an FCS school to transition to FBS is to get an invite from a conference that is already FBS.

Having the Big Sky become a conference sponsoring FBS they'd have to ask, and the schools would have to accept, membership in their conference and compete in their conference as FBS schools.

This was why the CAA was unable to move up as a unit as an FBS conference, even though Tom Yeager, the CAA commish, had implied that it was something he wanted to do in years past. He was even told this by the NCAA (check CSJ's archives for the details).

I would like to believe a conference commissioner would be completely aware of these facts.

[Green26]

I'm not disputing the conversation, but as the rules stand now, the option to "move the conference up" does not exist as the rules and definitions of the NCAA of FCS and FBS teams.

Basically, to become an FBS-sponsoring conference, you need to have six (or maybe seven) schools in it that are already FBS. The only way for an FCS school to transition to FBS is to get an invite from a conference that is already FBS.

Having the Big Sky become a conference sponsoring FBS they'd have to ask, and the schools would have to accept, membership in their conference and compete in their conference as FBS schools.

This was why the CAA was unable to move up as a unit as an FBS conference, even though Tom Yeager, the CAA commish, had implied that it was something he wanted to do in years past. He was even told this by the NCAA (check CSJ's archives for the details).

I would like to believe a conference commissioner would be completely aware of these facts.

The WAC charter is still useable and can be revived for several years. If the Big Sky or some of its schools could get control of the charter, they could "move up" that way. I don't think the BS or Fullerton are seriously considering this, unless it would be useful for moving into a new lower FBS division. It's just one more alternative out there. Fullerton has been thinking about this, and discussing it, for about 2 years.

[darell1976]

The WAC charter is still useable and can be revived for several years. If the Big Sky or some of its schools could get control of the charter, they could "move up" that way. I don't think the BS or Fullerton are seriously considering this, unless it would be useful for moving into a new lower FBS division. It's just one more alternative out there. Fullerton has been thinking about this, and discussing it, for about 2 years.

UND and Northern Colorado are associate members of the WAC in baseball if it matters.

[darell1976]

Again Fullerton didn't do his job in swaying all the presidents. Once USD was out they should have retracted the offer to UND, they still had that opportunity.

Tell me which 8 BSC schools are FBS ready??? I will give you UM, MSU and maybe NAU. Please tell me the others???

So if the MVC decides to take both SU's but then retract on NDSU due to location would that set well with you?

[frozennorth]

So if the MVC decides to take both SU's but then retract on NDSU due to location would that set well with you?
the BSC had no responsibility to bail out UND and the MVC has no responsibility to bail out NDSU.

[Green Laser]

UND and Northern Colorado are associate members of the WAC in baseball if it matters.

Sac State Baseball is also a member of the WAC. One thing that has been overlooked is the NCAA's requirement to field a minimum of 16 varsity sports for FBS schools and the expense involved. It seems that quite a few BSC schools have only 14 the minimum number for FCS. Sac State currently offers 8 men's and 11 women's sports. We are associate members of several different conferences to have a home for all our sports because the BSC doesn't offer them.
Fullerton has made statements regarding the possible future of FCS/FBS football before. I agree that this is a time of great change for the structure NCAA Football. Nobody really knows what it will look like when everything shakes out over the next 5-10 years. For now FCS is a safe place to wait out the changes.

[Herder]

The structure of college FB will be dictated by the Top 5 FBS conferences, and to a lesser degree the lower 5 FBS conferences. The Big Sky and FCS have no leverage and will not dictate what happens. This suggestion that the Big Sky is flexing its muscles is laughable. There is a 22 scholly difference, and 10 conferences unified in FBS. More hot air from the Big Sky.

[BisonHype!]

UND and Northern Colorado are associate members of the WAC in baseball if it matters.

It doesn't.

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[darell1976]

Sac State Baseball is also a member of the WAC. One thing that has been overlooked is the NCAA's requirement to field a minimum of 16 varsity sports for FBS schools and the expense involved. It seems that quite a few BSC schools have only 14 the minimum number for FCS. Sac State currently offers 8 men's and 11 women's sports. We are associate members of several different conferences to have a home for all our sports because the BSC doesn't offer them.
Fullerton has made statements regarding the possible future of FCS/FBS football before. I agree that this is a time of great change for the structure NCAA Football. Nobody really knows what it will look like when everything shakes out over the next 5-10 years. For now FCS is a safe place to wait out the changes.

UND offers 9 men's and 10 women's sports so we would meet the FBS minimum.

[Sycamore62]

I haven't read the whole thread but I would bet that all the FCS conferences are planning their steps for whatever happens when D1 does whatever it's going to do. I assume there will be the BCS schools, then the FBS and some of the FCS schools will make the 2nd division and then the rest will group with the D2 schools.

Who knows though.

[SIUSalukiFan]

3) there is not 15k attendance requirement for FBS!!!!!!!! Get that through your skulls! ------> Eastern Michigan. Thank you.

You are incorrect, sir.

http://www.masslive.com/umassfootball/index.ssf/2013/08/ncaa_umass_football_must_avera.html

Most MAC and Sun Belt schools satisfy this requirement by playing a big-time team at a neutral location as the home team. I know Northern Illinois played Wisconsin one year at Soldier Field and UL-Monroe played Arkansas in Little Rock to not be put on probation.

What happens during the probationary period is unclear but there is a rule.

[superman7515]

I feel like Han Solo. I'm out for a little while and the whole damn place starts getting delusions of grandeur. The CAA had discussions about moving up as an entire conference before ODU and GaSt left and the NCAA was very clear that it was absolutely against the by-laws and they would never allow it to happen. The invitations must come from an existing FBS conference and no conference can invite itself up.

[superman7515]

The WAC charter is still useable and can be revived for several years. If the Big Sky or some of its schools could get control of the charter, they could "move up" that way. I don't think the BS or Fullerton are seriously considering this, unless it would be useful for moving into a new lower FBS division. It's just one more alternative out there. Fullerton has been thinking about this, and discussing it, for about 2 years.

The WAC still exists. They have a commish. They're not going to give up control of their conference and Fullerton isn't going to lose his job by suggesting half his conference leave and join someone else.

[darell1976]

I feel like Han Solo. I'm out for a little while and the whole damn place starts getting delusions of grandeur. The CAA had discussions about moving up as an entire conference before ODU and GaSt left and the NCAA was very clear that it was absolutely against the by-laws and they would never allow it to happen. The invitations must come from an existing FBS conference and no conference can invite itself up.

Thats why Fullerton's idea of moving up as a whole I when there is a FBS split, and NOT before.

[superman7515]

Thats why Fullerton's idea of moving up as a whole I when there is a FBS split, and NOT before.

Which wouldn't matter because they would still need to change the by-laws, which still requires all of Division 1 voting on it. Then you'd have D2 conferences getting P.O.-ed about the $1 million dollar application fee just to be considered for D1 and that would end up in court. Too many cards come tumbling down if they allow it and there isn't going to be any split for at least another 12 years, so it's moot at this point.

[GoAgs72]

UC Davis may have the academic credentials, size and potentially money to become an FBS school but I think you are looking at the 30 year plan. Average attendance has dropped to about 7000, with no record of adequate success in FCS as measured by winning seasons, conference championships and playoff appearances. When UC Davis athletics and administration develop an adequate promotion plan to fill the current stadium and maybe require stadium additions, then I think they will begin thinking at the future. Many UC Davis students hardly know football exists and prefer the rough-housing of fighting for a seat in the library or in a required class.

[Mr. C]

I feel like Superman in regards to this thread.

Couple of points. I attended the FCS Summit Meeting on the morning and afternoon of the first championship game in Frisco. At this meeting, Tom Yeager, the commissioner of the CAA, was moderating a discussion panel that had some NCAA heavy-hitters (including their No. 2 man at the time — and as a side note, then-new president Mark Emmert spoke to us at lunch). Doug Fullerton was also on the panel. Some discussion about moving to FBS came up in regards to a question from Georgia State's athletic director and Yeager took the opportunity to point-blank ask the No. 2 man from the NCAA if a conference could move up as one and thus avoid the rules about a school needing an FBS conference invite to move up. He was told absolutely not, that it would require new NCAA legislation (a complicated procedure and one that would only get through if it satisfied the power brokers of the big five conferences). It was absolutely fascinating to watch this play out that day and was quite the subject of discussion with the ADs and conference commissioners afterwards.

On Doug Fullerton and the doubts that were cast about the post that originally started all of this:

Doug Fullerton is one of my favorite people in FCS and has been since the day I met him. He is brutally honest and also is the type of person who engages different people to get a feel for opinions and ideas. He is also extremely friendly and personable. I wouldn't be surprised in the least to see him have a conversation with someone on an airplane, in a restaurant, or just about anywhere else with a fan of FCS. The conversation that was outlined seems perfectly in character to me.

[thebootfitter]

On Doug Fullerton and the doubts that were cast about the post that originally started all of this:

Doug Fullerton is one of my favorite people in FCS and has been since the day I met him. He is brutally honest and also is the type of person who engages different people to get a feel for opinions and ideas. He is also extremely friendly and personable. I wouldn't be surprised in the least to see him have a conversation with someone on an airplane, in a restaurant, or just about anywhere else with a fan of FCS. The conversation that was outlined seems perfectly in character to me.
Thanks to everyone for sharing insight and perspective into this topic.

I agree that Mr. Fullerton seemed to be pretty friendly and willing to converse. I am a bit surprised by his response to my direct question regarding whether a conference could move up as a whole entity. (He replied affirmatively.) I guess we just didn't get into the conversation deeply enough for him to express some caveats, or perhaps there was some misunderstanding in the question or response. Either way, it was a pretty brief conversation of no more than 5-10 minutes overall. (The very nice lady who was sitting in between us seemed to be getting a little annoyed that we were talking through her.)

[Herder]

DF BS > BSC to FBS

[jacksfan29]

Anyone who knows Doug Fullerton would realize this kind of conversation is not out of the question. Doug is a straight shooter that will talk all kinds of things. Doesn't mean that anything is on the verge of happening but it has come up in media conversations before.

Straight shooter? Or full of crap? The guy seems to run off at the mouth as his words get ahead of his brain.

As for the BSC to FBS. Not going to happen unless their is a split and the Big 5 break from the rest. If that does happen, expect more then just some teams from the BSC to move up to the 2nd tier. Until that occurs, tell me which BSC schools outside of Montana have a shot at moving up financially? EWU? Weber? UND? Sac State? NAU?

[Herder]

So Darrell, what is this split you keep suggesting? What is your prediction . . . It's happening for sure by 2035?

[darell1976]

So Darrell, what is this split you keep suggesting? What is your prediction . . . It's happening for sure by 2035?

The Super 5 conference split, everyone knows about it, will it happen before 2035? Sure it will happen in the year 2020 and let me PM you the Powerball numbers for tomorrow nights drawing.

Seriously things may be different by the end of the decade I guess we will find out 5 years from now.

[MplsBison]

You are incorrect, sir.

http://www.masslive.com/umassfootball/index.ssf/2013/08/ncaa_umass_football_must_avera.html

Most MAC and Sun Belt schools satisfy this requirement by playing a big-time team at a neutral location as the home team. I know Northern Illinois played Wisconsin one year at Soldier Field and UL-Monroe played Arkansas in Little Rock to not be put on probation.

What happens during the probationary period is unclear but there is a rule.

Thank you for confirming I was correct. UMass averaged 10k and was allowed to move up to FBS.

[darell1976]

From WDAY's (Fargo tv) Dom Izzo:


Dom Izzo ‏@DomIzzoWDAY 1h (https://twitter.com/DomIzzoWDAY/status/423940600572809216) Worth watching; believe most AD's and college presidents for NCAA convention in San Diego; some strong talk about the Big Boys breaking away


I wonder what will come out of this meeting and what kind of strong talk was said.

[Bisonwinagn]

The Super 5 conference split, everyone knows about it, will it happen before 2035? Sure it will happen in the year 2020 and let me PM you the Powerball numbers for tomorrow nights drawing.

Seriously things may be different by the end of the decade I guess we will find out 5 years from now.

This will happen sooner than most people think. I wouldn't be surprised if it's at least announce within the next couple years. All the commissioners and AD's of the big 5 conferences are now on board with paying players which will ultimately decide their fate of having to break off into a new division or association. Also with the court cases going on right now it will push this decision faster. The rest of the football programs will have no say in this decision.

[Walkon79]

Do you think the FBS is going to remove the 15k attendance requirement? Seems like if the Big Sky went FBS, they'd be doing it without UND.

It's good that the Big Sky is thinking about it though. I know the MVFC should have a plan in place. There are a lot of MVFC teams that have talked about it in the past and there have been a lot of stadium upgrades going on. Of course, if the Big Sky was serious about upgrading football, they would have invited SDSU and NDSU instead of Northern Colorado, Southern Utah, UND, and USD.

BINGO!

[Walkon79]

It was various Big Sky schools (AD's and presidents) that turned down NDSU and SDSU, not Fullerton. Mainly due to concerns about travel costs.

Fullerton and the Big Sky invited UND and USD to the conference at the same time, not just UND. USD needed to get approval of its regents, I believe, and that required that the offer be made public. Then MV quickly made an offer, and USD decided to join the MV. UM's president, Engstrom, the former provost at USD, insisted on the offer to USD. He made the call to USD to make the offer.

The Cali schools and Portland State killed that deal, and it still ****es me off!

[BisonBacker]

The Cali schools and Portland State killed that deal, and it still ****es me off!
And with it you lost the two best football schools in the Dakota's.

[darell1976]

And with it you lost the two best football schools in the Dakota's.

To bad the BSC is more than just football.

[BisonBacker]

To bad the BSC is more than just football.

To bad the big sky doesn't give a rip about Hookey.

[BisonFan02]

To bad the BSC is more than just football.

It is? :D

[darell1976]

To bad the big sky doesn't give a rip about Hookey.

You guys still pissed they didn't let you in? I thought you were happy in the MVFC/Slummit League?

[BisonBacker]

You guys still pissed they didn't let you in? I thought you were happy in the MVFC/Slummit League?

Not at all I Love the MVFC. Just commenting on another posters posting.

[darell1976]

Not at all I Love the MVFC. Just commenting on another posters posting.

Okay, for a minute I thought it sounded like jealousy that UND, UNC, SUU and even USD got in and you didn't. As long as we are all happy in our respective conferences. :)

[Bisonoline]

You guys still pissed they didn't let you in? I thought you were happy in the MVFC/Slummit League?

Really?

[Twentysix]

And with it you lost the best football school in the FCS.

FIFY

[Twentysix]

Okay, for a minute I thought it sounded like jealousy that UND, UNC, SUU and even USD got in and you didn't. As long as we are all happy in our respective conferences. :)

Lol no one in the bsc is happy with UND. They will be even less happy if you start to win it. I'm sure they would be thrilled to see UND go to the WAC for everything that the WAC offers.

[darell1976]

Lol no one in the bsc is happy with UND. They will be even less happy if you start to win it. I'm sure they would be thrilled to see UND go to the WAC for everything that the WAC offers.

No one is happy with UND? Do you have a link for this? UND did win the regular season title in volleyball, and so far undefeated in conference play in WBB, so we will see if they get more "mad". Don't forget the BSC goes to an even 12 in non-football next year when Idaho comes back. Will Idaho be mad to?

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Making something out of nothing again are we?

The BSC did lose out on having the two best FB playing programs in the Dakota's at the present time.

Hockey is less important than any sport I can come up with to most BSC people but UND is doing fine in some of the other sports and will continue to do so I assume.

A lot of people are not happy with UND in the BSC but they are mostly not in the Montana region. It is the very same reason that the other Dakota schools were voted against and now the other two schools are in a better place because of it and as far as expenses the BSC probably is as well.

Those things are all true so you can stop trying to bait each other into some dumb pillow fight.

[darell1976]

Making something out of nothing again are we?

The BSC did lose out on having the two best FB playing programs in the Dakota's at the present time.

Hockey is less important than any sport I can come up with to most BSC people but UND is doing fine in some of the other sports and will continue to do so I assume.

A lot of people are not happy with UND in the BSC but they are mostly not in the Montana region. It is the very same reason that the other Dakota schools were voted against and now the other two schools are in a better place because of it and as far as expenses the BSC probably is as well.

Those things are all true so you can stop trying to bait each other into some dumb pillow fight.

What you said partly makes no sense. Who is mad at UND and how come no UND fan has heard or seen this? Wouldn't they be mad at South Dakota for not taking the BSC offer? Wouldn't they be mad at the MVFC for not giving UND the same deal as the Yotes? Why be mad at a team that was "invited" to the conference. UND didn't beg to join like NDSU did, they were invited to join kinda like how an FBS conference calls an FCS school for a conference invite. Is Sac St mad at UND, doubt it since they voted UND in plus their AD was at UND a little over a decade ago. Is Portland St mad? Doubt it since no fans told UND to leave on every trip UND goes out there. So please enlighten all the UND fans along with FCS fans who these people are and the hatred they have for UND? Unless there is links to this I am guessing its 3 guys in a bar in Flagstaff right?

[kalm]

I'm not mad.

[Twentysix]

You've got a serious tude darell.

[Twentysix]

Making something out of nothing again are we?

The BSC did lose out on having the two best FB playing programs in the Dakota's at the present time.

Hockey is less important than any sport I can come up with to most BSC people but UND is doing fine in some of the other sports and will continue to do so I assume.

A lot of people are not happy with UND in the BSC but they are mostly not in the Montana region. It is the very same reason that the other Dakota schools were voted against and now the other two schools are in a better place because of it and as far as expenses the BSC probably is as well.

Those things are all true so you can stop trying to bait each other into some dumb pillow fight.

But....
http://www.jaunted.com/files/6193/pillowfight4.jpg

:(

[darell1976]

You've got a serious tude darell.

Not meant to pull a tude, but the comment really got my interest and I thought maybe you saw something on the net either a story or a message board. I know we aren't popular because we are isolated but so are you guys. Look how the eastern schools grumbled when USD was admitted in the MVFC. Sorry if it seemed I was pissed at you. Can we still be friends? :)

[darell1976]

I'm not mad.

Thats nice to know...we aren't mad at you either. I can't wait to see your red field one day! :)

[ursus arctos horribilis]

What you said partly makes no sense. Who is mad at UND and how come no UND fan has heard or seen this? Wouldn't they be mad at South Dakota for not taking the BSC offer? Wouldn't they be mad at the MVFC for not giving UND the same deal as the Yotes? Why be mad at a team that was "invited" to the conference. UND didn't beg to join like NDSU did, they were invited to join kinda like how an FBS conference calls an FCS school for a conference invite. Is Sac St mad at UND, doubt it since they voted UND in plus their AD was at UND a little over a decade ago. Is Portland St mad? Doubt it since no fans told UND to leave on every trip UND goes out there. So please enlighten all the UND fans along with FCS fans who these people are and the hatred they have for UND? Unless there is links to this I am guessing its 3 guys in a bar in Flagstaff right?

darell, you get your feelings hurt real easily. I'll easily enlighten you cuz I apparently made you think it was AD's but I was talking about fans not being happy. They bitch about it here to a much lesser extent than they did when it was going down but if you need links go look at some of the reactions when it all went down with some BSC posters on CS and other BSC message boards.

Not trying to hurt your feeling darell. When USD stepped out of the package it wasn't as good a deal but with Idaho coming in and fixed some of the problem as far as the conference goes.

I ain't one of the fans that is upset about it so I am not gonna carry the conversation on and defend it further.

[Red & Black]

Yep, Fullerton has talked about this several times in the media, especially when a WAC merger was still a possibility.

[darell1976]

darell, you get your feelings hurt real easily. I'll easily enlighten you cuz I apparently made you think it was AD's but I was talking about fans not being happy. They bitch about it here to a much lesser extent than they did when it was going down but if you need links go look at some of the reactions when it all went down with some BSC posters on CS and other BSC message boards.

Not trying to hurt your feeling darell. When USD stepped out of the package it wasn't as good a deal but with Idaho coming in and fixed some of the problem as far as the conference goes.

I ain't one of the fans that is upset about it so I am not gonna carry the conversation on and defend it further.

No my feelings weren't hurt, but I love how you take the word of a Bison fan as truth. Also you telling me a few people on a message board represents a fanbase. Wow!! Tell you what UAH, go over to Siouxsports.com and tell the fans over there how hated we are in the BSC and see how they react, you'd be surprised.

[IBleedYellow]

No my feelings weren't hurt, but I love how you take the word of a Bison fan as truth. Also you telling me a few people on a message board represents a fanbase. Wow!! Tell you what UAH, go over to Siouxsports.com and tell the fans over there how hated we are in the BSC and see how they react, you'd be surprised.

I'm not sure how he's taking the word of a Bison fan as truth. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say Ursus has many more Big Sky connections than you do, and he will be able to gauge the feel of the league just a LITTLE bit more than you, considering you're in your what...3rd year in the conference coming up?

Get off your high horse, face the facts. In North Dakota, our universities are on an island, especially if you go out West. You're in complete denial to think otherwise, and I understand why the BSC told NDSU and SDSU NO when we were looking for a home. I can't see why their values changed shortly after when UN_ and USD wanted to join the league, but they did. We heard plenty of times how far away Fargo and Brookings were when we were trying to get into the Big Sky. What's really ironic is instead of just a flight to Fargo, it's now a flight into Fargo and a bus trip up to GF. xlolx

[Bisonoline]

I'm not sure how he's taking the word of a Bison fan as truth. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say Ursus has many more Big Sky connections than you do, and he will be able to gauge the feel of the league just a LITTLE bit more than you, considering you're in your what...3rd year in the conference coming up?

Get off your high horse, face the facts. In North Dakota, our universities are on an island, especially if you go out West. You're in complete denial to think otherwise, and I understand why the BSC told NDSU and SDSU NO when we were looking for a home. I can't see why their values changed shortly after when UN_ and USD wanted to join the league, but they did. We heard plenty of times how far away Fargo and Brookings were when we were trying to get into the Big Sky. What's really ironic is instead of just a flight to Fargo, it's now a flight into Fargo and a bus trip up to GF. xlolx

Ahh but you are forgetting who you are dealing with. GF is an island surrounded by reality.xnodx

[thebootfitter]

What's really ironic is instead of just a flight to Fargo, it's now a flight into Fargo and a bus trip up to GF. xlolx
I have to believe that teams would fly their charter jets directly into El Forko Grande, no?

[IBleedYellow]

I have to believe that teams would fly their charter jets directly into El Forko Grande, no?

I'll have to go dig something up, but I remember hearing they use Hector.

[BISON Thunder]

I have to believe that teams would fly their charter jets directly into El Forko Grande, no?

Cannot speak for football, but I have seen many BSC non football teams' come through the Fargo airport. Usually on one of the United flights from Denver.