Patriot League: 2014 Questions

[DFW HOYA]

Rather than seeing that Lafayette-New Hampshire thread labor on into the spring, some discussion questions for the Patriot League heading into the world of 30 scholarship football:

1. Fordham: A Flash or A Fixture? Twice before, Fordham has sat atop the PL standings but have quickly settled back in the standings. With a two year head start, does Fordham have what it takes to become the dominant PL program for years to come, or is its success at risk when others catch up?

2. Beyond 150: Lafayette Ascendant? Our friends from the Lehigh Valley will talk early and often about its game at Yankee Stadium, but is Lafayette ready to reach --or pass-- Lehigh in the PL standings for the next few years?

3. Recruiting vs. the Ivy League: With two classes under its belt, is the league reaching a fundamentally higher level of recruit, or simply landing recruits that would otherwise sign in the Ivy?

4. Rebuilding at Colgate: How big is the effort facing Dan Hunt to reposition Colgate as an elite team?

5. Is Bucknell a Contender? Does Joe Susan have the Bison ready for its first significant run as a league contender in 15 years?

6. Pressure at Holy Cross? Tom Gilmore is 5-18 over his last two seasons and an even 56-56 at Holy Cross in ten seasons, the longest tenure of a coach at Fitton Field since Eddie Anderson. Is there pressure on Gilmore to elevate the Crusaders this season?

7. How Bad Will Georgetown Be? From 8 wins in 2011 to just 2 in 2013, Georgetown loses 24 seniors which formed a majority of its two-deep. Recruiting without scholarships in 2013 resulted in one of the weakest classes since it was playing in the MAAC, and at the start of 2014 it does not have a single commit on the major recruiting sites. One win may be a reach in 2014, especially if Davidson rolls off the schedule.

8. Expansion? Does the league begin to beat the drum on expansion again?

9. Playoff Standing: Is this now a two bid league? Can the PL become a regular player in the playoffs beyond the opening weekend?

10. Future With The Ivy League: As the Ivies begin to pull back on non-confernece scheduling, is it time for the PL to recommit to a long-term scheduling deal with the Ivy League, or move away from the Ivies towards sustained scholarship-level competition and/or aggresively securing I-A opponents?

[Lehigh'98]

All good questions that I'm a bit to inebriated to answer ATM. Happy New Year. I will say this though, Lafayette are a bunch of losers, the best year they had making the playoffs this year was still a losing record. It took a catastrophic injury for them to beat us. They will not surpass us. I'm trying to find something positive to say about Gtown football, but, well goodnight..

[CFBfan]

Rather than seeing that Lafayette-New Hampshire thread labor on into the spring, some discussion questions for the Patriot League heading into the world of 30 scholarship football:

1. Fordham: A Flash or A Fixture? Twice before, Fordham has sat atop the PL standings but have quickly settled back in the standings. With a two year head start, does Fordham have what it takes to become the dominant PL program for years to come, or is its success at risk when others catch up? MOST staters back AND Moorehead back, at least 1 more year atop.

2. Beyond 150: Lafayette Ascendant? Our friends from the Lehigh Valley will talk early and often about its game at Yankee Stadium, but is Lafayette ready to reach --or pass-- Lehigh in the PL standings for the next few years? let's see how LU's offense looks with a new OC

3. Recruiting vs. the Ivy League: With two classes under its belt, is the league reaching a fundamentally higher level of recruit, or simply landing recruits that would otherwise sign in the Ivy? PL is also also getting CAA level recruits

4. Rebuilding at Colgate: How big is the effort facing Dan Hunt to reposition Colgate as an elite team? this is a big one with seemingly no glaring talent at qb to step in, will what was considered the best recruit class in the PL last year be able to step up?

5. Is Bucknell a Contender? Does Joe Susan have the Bison ready for its first significant run as a league contender in 15 years? No!

6. Pressure at Holy Cross? Tom Gilmore is 5-18 over his last two seasons and an even 56-56 at Holy Cross in ten seasons, the longest tenure of a coach at Fitton Field since Eddie Anderson. Is there pressure on Gilmore to elevate the Crusaders this season? Gilmore is NOT a good HC, in fact absent Dom Randolph he is awful!!

7. How Bad Will Georgetown Be? From 8 wins in 2011 to just 2 in 2013, Georgetown loses 24 seniors which formed a majority of its two-deep. Recruiting without scholarships in 2013 resulted in one of the weakest classes since it was playing in the MAAC, and at the start of 2014 it does not have a single commit on the major recruiting sites. One win may be a reach in 2014, especially if Davidson rolls off the schedule. time for the Hoyas to krapp or get off the PL pot

8. Expansion? Does the league begin to beat the drum on expansion again? Let's hope so!!!

9. Playoff Standing: Is this now a two bid league? Can the PL become a regular player in the playoffs beyond the opening weekend? In a year or two it can

10. Future With The Ivy League: As the Ivies begin to pull back on non-confernece scheduling, is it time for the PL to recommit to a long-term scheduling deal with the Ivy League, or move away from the Ivies towards sustained scholarship-level competition and/or aggresively securing I-A opponents?
Neither, just play Ivies when it makes sense.....open dates, long traditions and stronger Ivy teams

Happy New Year to everyone (even you MPLS)

[RichH2]

New Year's Day opinions may be a bit colored by lack of sleep but here goes.

1. Yes with the caveat that Moorhead stays or a while. Rams will have their run for the next 4-5 years.

2. Not sure but certainly a possibility.LU in a tough spot right now having to replace 2-3 coaches and recruit a good class.A lot hinges on whether Andy can get the right OC and other O coaches and get a good class.The last 2 years LU won a lot of very close games.Far from dominant. Can Andy keep the up cycle going?

3.Il still winning most head to heads.Doubt that will ever change substantially at least vs HYP and UP. There is no doubt that PL has significantly improved both the level of athletes and the depth of the quality in last yr's class. Scanning early results for this year the same is true.

4.Hunt has a daunting task but IMO the basis is there and he will reinvigorate the program.

5.YES. Bison solid everywher but at QB,which can be lethal in PL. If he finds a QB they will challenge.

6. Tom needs to win this next season. Has a QB and a RB needs to find more speed for Cross.

7.Hoyas w/o additional funding for need aid will not do well .

8.Expansion has never been off the table in football. Another full member or assoc is a necessity for football. Slim pickings right now

9.Not yet. 3-4 more years of schollies then yes IMO PL will be a 2 bid league more often than not'

10.Il will not disappear from PL schedules. BUT,PL must improve its OOC scheduling CAA,SoCon et al.

[Bogus Megapardus]

2014 Questions

That's a lot of questions.

[Bill]

Rather than seeing that Lafayette-New Hampshire thread labor on into the spring,

What's wrong with letting that thread labor on to the spring? :)

[Bogus Megapardus]

All good questions that I'm a bit to inebriated to answer ATM. Happy New Year. I will say this though, Lafayette are a bunch of losers, the best year they had making the playoffs this year was still a losing record. It took a catastrophic injury for them to beat us. They will not surpass us. I'm trying to find something positive to say about Gtown football, but, well goodnight..







http://img546.imageshack.us/img546/8731/z0km.png

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The answer to 1) to me is Nebrich. If he's healthy, Fordham will probably repeat as de-facto PL champions. If he isn't healthy or he goes down, Fordham becomes a shockingly ordinary team.

Moorhead is a solid coach for sure. But Nebrich is the reason why they were fantastic last season. IMO.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

1. Fordham has one more year to reign supreme. They should be preseason Top 5 next season. After that, graduation, coaches leaving, and facilities even things out...

2. Lafayette has a little more momentum going into next year. The biggest question for Lehigh is the coaching staff. If Coen makes the right decisions the ship should remain steady and the Hawks will contend for the playoffs in 2014. If not, a 2-3 year slide is very possible. Lafayette enters 2014 with things to prove as well. They don't want another losing record.

3. Some are, some aren't imo...

4. Colgate has the potential to fall off the cliff. It takes the right type of coach to be able to recruit in Hamilton. I think their identity will remain the same for the most part. That's a good thing...

5. Bucknell is the wildcard. They showed good athleticism the few times I saw them. They need to replace Wesley...

6. There should be. I'm not convinced TG is HC material. His biggest weakness is recruiting.

7. Georgetown will continue to struggle. However 4-5 wins does not seem impossible in 2014.

8. Not worried about it...

9. Fordham should be a serious threat to reach Frisco. Lafayette and Lehigh will battle it out for a second bid.

10. I enjoy the games against the IL. Lehigh has built a nice rivalry with Princeton. It would be a shame to lose that. PL teams can easily continue their relationship with the IL and still have room for games against FBS, CAA, SoCon, Big South, etc teams.

[RichH2]

Just a note ,LU lost Stovall ( OLB), Miran (WR) and Dave C ( OC). May be that most important recruiting will be at coaches convention IMO

[Engineer86]

The answer to 1) to me is Nebrich. If he's healthy, Fordham will probably repeat as de-facto PL champions. If he isn't healthy or he goes down, Fordham becomes a shockingly ordinary team.

Moorhead is a solid coach for sure. But Nebrich is the reason why they were fantastic last season. IMO.

Umm, Fordham is not repeating as Champs of anything. DeFacto or Facto.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Fordham will probably repeat as de-facto PL champions.

I don't get it.

[Go...gate]

Good questions to be answered as we enter the off-season. Happy New Year!

[Sader87]

6. Pressure at Holy Cross? Tom Gilmore is 5-18 over his last two seasons and an even 56-56 at Holy Cross in ten seasons, the longest tenure of a coach at Fitton Field since Eddie Anderson. Is there pressure on Gilmore to elevate the Crusaders this season?

It's a long off-season so I'll just answer this query for now.

Yes there's always to pressure to win, but I think TG is safe for at least a couple more years. He recruited very well (offensively anyway) last year and I think the HC PTB and our new AD will give him a few years to produce in the PL scholarship era.

There have already been a couple changes (some would say firings) on the defensive staff since the end of the season. In many ways (not to let TG completely off the hook) that has been the biggest problem with HC's coaching i.e. a stable, effective assistant coaching staff.

I would say if TG is not winning/competing for the PL title by 2016 or so, then you may see a change made at the head coaching position.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Umm, Fordham is not repeating as Champs of anything. DeFacto or Facto.

De facto is a Latin expression that means "concerning fact." In law, it often means "in practice but not necessarily ordained by law"

In practice, Fordham was co-champions of the PL last season with Lafayette.

[Bogus Megapardus]

De facto is a Latin expression that means "concerning fact." In law, it often means "in practice but not necessarily ordained by law"

In practice, Fordham was co-champions of the PL last season with Lafayette.

. . . ipso facto repeating as de facto champions? Not unless ruled ineligible in 2014, ex post facto.

[carney2]

Great questions, DFW. And I love the fact that you give us some PL football to talk about as we begin to settle in for a bleak winter. Thanks.

1. As the Lafayette game proved, it was all about Nebrich in The Bronx. Moorhead has done little about his defense and my personal opinion is that the Rams will slide back to the pack when the current QB grabs his diploma in June of 2015.

2. If, as Fordham demonstrates, the QB is critical at this level, the Pards are in good shape. The freshman phenom will only be a sophomore. Another sophomore has always been touted by Tavani as just about as good. And a recruit out of California appears to be in their class. The rest of the roster is however, in question, and if the recruiting is getting it done, it isn't obvious to me. The New Hampshire playoff game demonstrated that the, now 4 year old OL problem, continues, and the players on the current roster may not have what it takes.

3. RichH once said that we would not be able to recruit with the CAA, but might be able to pick up a few studs per year. Most teams did that in the first year of schollies. Besides, who among us would not like to have Harvard's recruiting class year in and year out?

4, Last year's best in the League recruiting class was all about the OL. If they pan out, Hunt's job will not be quite as difficult as some think.

5. Back to that QB thing - the Buffaloes only made noise with a healthy Wesley at QB. He's gone and most of the other holes are still there. The Buffs will no longer be a doormat, but will not be a contender.

6. If there's pressure on Gilmore, it isn't obvious. With Pujals they will improve, but will not challenge Fordham. Don't know what will happen with the new AD, but the Crossers give every appearance that they are another Patriot League school that embraces that "win, but don't win too much" philosophy.

7. Hopelessly and perpetually BAD. There's no point in bringing this up again - ever.

8. Do something, but don't do something stupid.

9. This year's chances are below 50-50. After that, who knows.

10. This ball is in the Ivy court. They are the ones "pulling back." They only need 3 OOC games each per year, so it's apparently not a big deal - until you ask yourself who they can get to consistently fill those 3 spots. They have a problem. The PL, on the other hand, is playing more CAA teams and has that FBS option with the NEC for filler. It's good to be in the driver's seat and be able to say "screw 'em."

[ColgateTD]

Joyeux Nuvelo Anee to all...

4. Colgate has a long and intense football tradition; I don't see Hunt taking the job if he doesn't expect to keep the Biddle-type program going. With Mooney coming in, the QB problem could be solved for the next 4 years. The OL looks good if the sophs pan out. Immediate questions are the D and DB's, and recruiting vs the other PL schools. 'Gate needs to keep stocking good two-deep players the way the league is formated now.

10. Not to be redundant redundant but 'Gate traditions go deep with the IL. 'Gate-Princeton plays into our recruiting and has for many years. I think we should keep Ivies on the schedule, as many have opined, but also have the reach games we are known for, i.e., Syracuse, Army, Richmond, Nova, etc. As the league gets stronger we need to upgrade our OOC schedule so the PL becomes a two-bid league. LU-Princeton has become a good series as well; there's no reason to drop the IL completely.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Thought about "QB play in the PL is critical to success":

* Fordham - Nebrich healthy pretty much all season, the game he was out against Laf they lost. (Not sure if he was even 100% against Sacred Heart and Towson)
* Colgate - Payton award candidate in McCarney - injuries all season, tried to play through them, couldn't do enough to repeat as champions.
* Lehigh - had best statistical candidate in Bialkowski, out for year against Bucknell, not same team afterwards.
* Bucknell - Wesley injured early, came on late, but not enough to win league.
* Georgetown - starting QB got hurt, had rotating door of QBs all season.

And Lafayette and Holy Cross had true freshmen QBs, whom they had to resort to after injury and/or ineffectiveness from the guys in front of them. Both Pujals and Reed had flashes of being extremely good QBs and legitimately won the starting jobs.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Thought about "QB play in the PL is critical to success":

* Fordham - Nebrich healthy pretty much all season, the game he was out against Laf they lost. (Not sure if he was even 100% against Sacred Heart and Towson)
* Colgate - Payton award candidate in McCarney - injuries all season, tried to play through them, couldn't do enough to repeat as champions.
* Lehigh - had best statistical candidate in Bialkowski, out for year against Bucknell, not same team afterwards.
* Bucknell - Wesley injured early, came on late, but not enough to win league.
* Georgetown - starting QB got hurt, had rotating door of QBs all season.

And Lafayette and Holy Cross had true freshmen QBs, whom they had to resort to after injury and/or ineffectiveness from the guys in front of them. Both Pujals and Reed had flashes of being extremely good QBs and legitimately won the starting jobs.

Agree with these obervations (though I'm not sure Bialkowski wound up with the best stats). As a result, the PL had a pretty bad year overall.

[van]

10. This ball is in the Ivy court. They are the ones "pulling back." They only need 3 OOC games each per year, so it's apparently not a big deal - until you ask yourself who they can get to consistently fill those 3 spots. They have a problem. The PL, on the other hand, is playing more CAA teams and has that FBS option with the NEC for filler. It's good to be in the driver's seat and be able to say "screw 'em."

+1, and good luck with the PFL if they snub us!

[Bogus Megapardus]

Ivy is not "pulling back." It's hardly that subtle. Most have said point blank that they have no intention of scheduling us in the future (though Robin Harris continues to hedge and/or weasel on this).

Instead Ivy would rather play "like minded" institutions with "similar philosophies," whomsoever they might be.

[RichH2]

Ivy is not "pulling back." It's hardly that subtle. Most have said point blank that they have no intention of scheduling us in the future (though Robin Harris continues to hedge and/or weasel on this).

Instead Ivy would rather play "like minded" institutions with "similar philosophies," whomsoever they might be.

Well, the Senen Sisters come to mind.xrolleyesx

Princeton hs stated that it has no intention of stopping LU series. Schedules thru 16 dont seem much different,only a few less IL-PL games

[Go...gate]

Maybe for Lehigh, but there are no Colgate-Princeton games scheduled after 2015. Gary Walters, who is retiring, actually acknowledged that he swapped Colgate out for Davidson and Georgetown.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Maybe for Lehigh, but there are no Colgate-Princeton games scheduled after 2015. Gary Walters, who is retiring, actually acknowledged that he swapped Colgate out for Davidson and Georgetown.

Trading "Patriot League" for "Used To Be in the Patriot League" and for "Sort Of in the Patriot League." Way to step it up there, Gary.

All they need to do now is find a "Coulda Been in the Patriot League" to schedule and they'll hit the trifecta.

[Go Green]

Maybe for Lehigh, but there are no Colgate-Princeton games scheduled after 2015. Gary Walters, who is retiring, actually acknowledged that he swapped Colgate out for Davidson and Georgetown.

The guess here is that Walters' decision was made when Princeton was coming off back-to-back 1-9 seasons.

Now that they are a league power again, I'm also guessing Walters probably feels sheepish about shceduling Davidson. (Georgetown makes at least some sense as a long-term partner for reasons already discussed).

[Bogus Megapardus]

The guess here is that Walters' decision was made when Princeton was coming off back-to-back 1-9 seasons.

Now that they are a league power again, I'm also guessing Walters probably feels sheepish about scheduling Davidson. (Georgetown makes at least some sense as a long-term partner for reasons already discussed).

Scheduling Georgetown makes sense. Dumping previously-scheduled Colgate in order to schedule Georgetown, less so.

[Pard4Life]

Maybe for Lehigh, but there are no Colgate-Princeton games scheduled after 2015. Gary Walters, who is retiring, actually acknowledged that he swapped Colgate out for Davidson and Georgetown.

Somewhat funny considering Princeton would just embarrass Colgate now...

[Pard4Life]

1. Fordham: A Flash or A Fixture? Flash... after this QB graduates and coach moves on, back to normal in Broncks.

2. Beyond 150: Lafayette Ascendant? Tough to say... Reed is the real deal, but Tavani IS still our coach.

3. Recruiting vs. the Ivy League: A little bit of both... we are getting some Ivy recruits due to similar academics but lower or zero price tag, and we may capture some kids for said reason from the CAA and NEC. I can see Lehigh and Colgate pulling in some CAA recruits.

4. Rebuilding at Colgate: Colgate will be back in 2014.

5. Is Bucknell a Contender? Yes.

6. Pressure at Holy Cross? No, the new QB offers them some hope. QB is all you need in this league, along with average players elsewhere (see Lafayette)

7. How Bad Will Georgetown Be? FIOS may consider tape-delaying the games until after the season.

8. Expansion? We are now in a very large gray area, where we will wander for sometime. Unless the CAA disintegrates...

9. Playoff Standing: Is this now a two bid league? Can the PL become a regular player in the playoffs beyond the opening weekend? ... Yes to both, though it will depend on the year being two-bid.

10. Future With The Ivy League: They will huff and puff but they are not going anywhere on our schedules.

[Go...gate]

Somewhat funny considering Princeton would just embarrass Colgate now...

Not so certain about that.

The series, which dates back over a century, has had many upsets on both sides.

[Pard4Life]

Not so certain about that.

The series, which dates back over a century, has had many upsets on both sides.

Maybe, but there was a wide dispairity this year...

[Sader87]

I really don't see the great need to add another school for football. I suppose scheduling is made easier with 8 teams and the fear exists that we are too near the "6 team minimum for a bid." But I like the free-ness (for lack of a better term) of playing 6 PL games and playing around with the other 5 (6 some years) games. Ideally it allows you to play 2 or 3 Ivies, 1 or 2 CAA schools, a NEC school and a "reach FBS" game.

[RichH2]

I really don't see the great need to add another school for football. I suppose scheduling is made easier with 8 teams and the fear exists that we are too near the "6 team minimum for a bid." But I like the free-ness (for lack of a better term) of playing 6 PL games and playing around with the other 5 (6 some years) games. Ideally it allows you to play 2 or 3 Ivies, 1 or 2 CAA schools, a NEC school and a "reach FBS" game.

At some point we have to.How long will GU stick around?

[Sader87]

Villanova will join the PL at some point....makes too much sense for them not to.

[Bogus Megapardus]

We really should have one more football member to prevent odd-team-out scheduling at the end of the season. I agree that Villanova just makes too much sense not to join at some point.

[RichH2]

We all agree ,now just for Nova to see the light

[JoltinJoe]

. Moorhead has done little about his defense and my personal opinion is that the Rams will slide back to the pack when the current QB grabs his diploma in June of 2015.

Nebrich was a red-shirt sophomore this season, although he was often called a junior. He will be playing for Fordham in the Fall of 2015.

[ngineer]

We all agree ,now just for Nova to see the light

No sight until Talley retires.

[RichH2]

No sight until Talley retires.

xnodx True he just doesn't like us or the PL

- - - Updated - - -



No sight until Talley retires.

xnodx True he just doesn't like us or the PL

[Tribe4SF]

We all agree ,now just for Nova to see the light

First the PL needs to see the light. AI and no redshirts will continue to be obstacles for Nova, W&M and Richmond. CAA bolstered with Stony Brook, Albany and Elon remains far more attractive than the PL. Arbitrary 60 scholarship limit is symbolic statement that "we are different". That's all fine, but isn't going to attract new members.

[jimbo65]

First the PL needs to see the light. AI and no redshirts will continue to be obstacles for Nova, W&M and Richmond. CAA bolstered with Stony Brook, Albany and Elon remains far more attractive than the PL. Arbitrary 60 scholarship limit is symbolic statement that "we are different". That's all fine, but isn't going to attract new members.

Great point about the 60. Likely a sop to the "tweedies" who find athletics, paticularly football, distasteful. Reminds me of the comment either you are pregnant or you aren't. Other than 3, what is the difference between 60 and 63.

Were it not for Fordham instituting schollies on our own, with, I suspect, behind the scene support from Lehigh and Colgate, the PL would be non-competitive.

[Franks Tanks]

Nebrich was a red-shirt sophomore this season, although he was often called a junior. He will be playing for Fordham in the Fall of 2015.

Are you sure about that? Transfers are still subject to the no red-shirt rule. Unless he somehow recieves a medical red-shirt he should only have one more year.

[RichH2]

Are you sure about that? Transfers are still subject to the no red-shirt rule. Unless he somehow recieves a medical red-shirt he should only have one more year.
My take also FT. Elsewhere a transfer comes in with the same eligibity that he left prior school with. PL? Not sure whether we apply our medical redshirt rule to a transfer to a redshirt taken at his prior school.Quick scan didn't find PL rule mandating such application.

[Andy]

Guys, Anastor came to LC after a redshirt season at Northeastern and was given 4 yrs of eligibilty.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Redshirts at a prior institution don't have to be vacated. RB Matt McGowan, who came to Lehigh from Kent State, is but one example.

Interestingly, the "sit out a year" rule from FCS-to-FCS transfers effectively act as a redshirt. LB John Mahoney and LB Troy Taylor had to sit out a year enrolled at Lehigh and played until senior year.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Redshirts at a prior institution don't have to be vacated. RB Matt McGowan, who came to Lehigh from Kent State, is but one example.

Interestingly, the "sit out a year" rule from FCS-to-FCS transfers effectively act as a redshirt. LB John Mahoney and LB Troy Taylor had to sit out a year enrolled at Lehigh and played until senior year.

McGowan came from Richmond. Pastor is the one that played for Kent State. I believe he battled injuries at Lehigh as well.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

McGowan came from Richmond. Pastor is the one that played for Kent State. I believe he battled injuries at Lehigh as well.

You are right, Josh Pastore, I forgot. McGowan was interesting since I think he had an extra year of eligibility if he wanted it, he redshirted at Richmond, then waited a year, then effectively started for three years. Of course, before football scholarships, he might have been paying something (or everything) every year!

[JoltinJoe]

Are you sure about that? Transfers are still subject to the no red-shirt rule. Unless he somehow recieves a medical red-shirt he should only have one more year.

He received a medical red shirt due to his knee injury suffered early during the 2012 season.

BTW, here is a NY Post article from August which correctly refers to Nebrich as a red-shirt sophomore for the 2013 season.http://nypost.com/2013/08/11/fordham-football-looking-to-take-next-step-2/

I'm sure, because I got this information from someone who got it directly from Coach Moorhead.

[Engineer86]

De facto is a Latin expression that means "concerning fact." In law, it often means "in practice but not necessarily ordained by law"

In practice, Fordham was co-champions of the PL last season with Lafayette.

Call it what you want, even if Fordham was eligible for the Bid, they would have been an at large. But it is so nice that we give trophies out to all the kids that play Little League.

[Go...gate]

Maybe, but there was a wide disparity this year...

There certainly was. Tigers would have trimmed us for sure this season.

[Go...gate]

Great point about the 60. Likely a sop to the "tweedies" who find athletics, paticularly football, distasteful. Reminds me of the comment either you are pregnant or you aren't. Other than 3, what is the difference between 60 and 63.

Were it not for Fordham instituting schollies on our own, with, I suspect, behind the scene support from Lehigh and Colgate, the PL would be non-competitive.

What is also tough is that I don't think some PL admissions departments will be looking much beyond that 15 per year in terms of football players. As I understand, in the "equivalency" years, there were a greater number of "slots" set aside each year for football players, who would get their aid from the school like the rest of the student body. That may not be a problem going forward, as scholarships are divisible, and I'm sure we will still get a share of walk-ons, some of whom will pay their way, but I just have a feeling that roster numbers will be down. Am I wrong?

[Go...gate]

Call it what you want, even if Fordham was eligible for the Bid, they would have been an at large. But it is so nice that we give trophies out to all the kids that play Little League.

It was great to have two league teams back in the tournament.

[Tribe4SF]

What is also tough is that I don't think some PL admissions departments will be looking much beyond that 15 per year in terms of football players. As I understand, in the "equivalency" years, there were a greater number of "slots" set aside each year for football players, who would get their aid from the school like the rest of the student body. That may not be a problem going forward, as scholarships are divisible, and I'm sure we will still get a share of walk-ons, some of whom will pay their way, but I just have a feeling that roster numbers will be down. Am I wrong?

I'm not sure how deep and complicated the issues would be for a school like W&M coming into the Patriot, but I am sure they are deep and complicated. As a state supported institution we have a minimum number of state students who must be admitted each year, and the profiles for out-of-state are higher than in-state. We redshirted all 25 freshmen this year and 11 of them were in-state walk-ons.

[Go...gate]

I'm not sure how deep and complicated the issues would be for a school like W&M coming into the Patriot, but I am sure they are deep and complicated. As a state supported institution we have a minimum number of state students who must be admitted each year, and the profiles for out-of-state are higher than in-state. We redshirted all 25 freshmen this year and 11 of them were in-state walk-ons.

I think if W & M wanted to be in the PL, the PL would make adjustments. Fordham has broken the ice in that regard.

[Tribe4SF]

I think if W & M wanted to be in the PL, the PL would make adjustments. Fordham has broken the ice in that regard.

That may be, but for schools like Lafayette the redshirt issue would seem to be a tough one. Several of our fifth year seniors this season were in grad school and redshirting would create a clear advantage for some schools. Imagine the recruiting pitch to a top-notch student for Lafayette...."We plan to redshirt you and you will take 9 semesters to graduate". From W&M..."We plan to redshirt you and you will be able to get a semester of graduate school on scholarship in your fifth year or delay your graduation if you choose". The Mason School of Business has been a great recruiting tool for W&M with the opportunity to get a leg up on an MBA. Not sure how the PL schools operate, but W&M players typically take at least one summer school class and reduce academic hours to 12 during the Fall semester.

[RichH2]

What is also tough is that I don't think some PL admissions departments will be looking much beyond that 15 per year in terms of football players. As I understand, in the "equivalency" years, there were a greater number of "slots" set aside each year for football players, who would get their aid from the school like the rest of the student body. That may not be a problem going forward, as scholarships are divisible, and I'm sure we will still get a share of walk-ons, some of whom will pay their way, but I just have a feeling that roster numbers will be down. Am I wrong?
PL capping rosters at 90 ,so definite squads will be smallerxnodx. CAA squads are mstly in the 85 to 90 range, so not much difference on paper but they can redshirt.
Admissions are a separate issue at each school. Admissions can helpful such as at FU or a hindrance like Holy Cross. We all live with the AI floor but compliance with the AI bands does not ensure a compliant Admissions process.

[RichH2]

That may be, but for schools like Lafayette the redshirt issue would seem to be a tough one. Several of our fifth year seniors this season were in grad school and redshirting would create a clear advantage for some schools. Imagine the recruiting pitch to a top-notch student for Lafayette...."We plan to redshirt you and you will take 9 semesters to graduate". From W&M..."We plan to redshirt you and you will be able to get a semester of graduate school on scholarship in your fifth year or delay your graduation if you choose". The Mason School of Business has been a great recruiting tool for W&M with the opportunity to get a leg up on an MBA. Not sure how the PL schools operate, but W&M players typically take at least one summer school class and reduce academic hours to 12

during the Fall semester.

At LU ,a lot of athletes take at least 1 summer class to lighten load during the year. Surprised that most fall sport students use it for their Spring semester.

[Tribe4SF]

PL capping rosters at 90 ,so definite squads will be smallerxnodx. CAA squads are mstly in the 85 to 90 range, so not much difference on paper but they can redshirt.
Admissions are a separate issue at each school. Admissions can helpful such as at FU or a hindrance like Holy Cross. We all live with the AI floor but compliance with the AI bands does not ensure a compliant Admissions process.

Richmond and Villanova usually carry 85-90, but W&M roster was 101 this year.

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

PL capping rosters at 90 ,so definite squads will be smallerxnodx. CAA squads are mstly in the 85 to 90 range, so not much difference on paper but they can redshirt.
Admissions are a separate issue at each school. Admissions can helpful such as at FU or a hindrance like Holy Cross. We all live with the AI floor but compliance with the AI bands does not ensure a compliant Admissions process.

I count an even 100 on the UNH roster.

[ngineer]

The red shirt issue will be a big deal for any expansion involving a CAA or like affiliated school that has been using them.

[TheValleyRaider]

1. Fordham: A Flash or A Fixture?
With Nebrich back, and their full complement of scholarships, they will probably be the favorite for 2014. Long term they will probably settle back to the pack again as programs like Lehigh and Colgate catch up, and if Moorhead leaves for greener pastures as people suspect. But who knows, maybe he likes it in the Bronx. Unless they find a real long-term guy there, success will always be unpredictable, I think.

2. Beyond 150: Lafayette Ascendant?
Well, they have a QB, which is what you need in this league. Lafayette has, I think, been recruiting fairly well, but so have the Hawks. Without knowing who will be handling snaps for Lehigh next year (or calling the plays, for that matter), I think the Leopards start the year ahead of their ancient rivals, at least in January.

3. Recruiting vs. the Ivy League
I think it's going to take one or two more years before you really start to notice if anything is changing. As others have said, I wouldn't mind Harvard's classes at all, but I think it's going to be more incremental. Add a few guys that without the money would choose an Ivy/NEC/CAA school, push a few kids down the 2-deep, and suddenly you have the depth to be more consistent over the season. Fordham right now is best-case scenario, but I'm not sure, with the AI and redshirting rules, you're going to see any PL school turn into a perennial Top 10-ranked program nationally.

4. Rebuilding at Colgate
To be PL Elite? Not very far. Lots of injuries meant lots of experience for some younger guys, and recruiting continues to be strong. If the O-Line stays healthy, we'll be able to do a lot of things. Without knowing who the QB is, I can't say we're going to win the League, but I suspect we'll be in the chase as always. Beyond 2014? That gets a bit tougher to see, without knowing how exactly Hunt will put his stamp on the program. I believe they will be similar to Biddle's teams, though much depends on what ways.

5. Is Bucknell a Contender?
Does Bucknell have a QB? If yes, then why not the Bison? I don't think they're as deep as some of the other contenders, but they weren't too far off a title this year. They did not look good without Wesley in the lineup though. If the rest of the favorites improve, I don't know if they'll be able to keep up.

6. Pressure at Holy Cross?
Sounds like HC is pretty happy with Gilmore, and will probably give him some time with scholarships and Pujals. I think, though, if they don't show some forward progress this year, things start to get a bit warm. I don't believe he'd be fired until after 2015, barring a complete collapse, but I'm not sure the Crusaders will be able to get much closer

7. How Bad Will Georgetown Be?
Sad to say, but pretty bad. Their finances relative to the rest of the League have always put them behind the eight-ball, and until that changes, I'm not sure where the improvement comes from.

8. Expansion?
They ought to be looking, if only because the landscape of conferences is ever-changing. I don't really see any good options out there at the moment. Say what you will about the CAA triumvirate (VU/UR/W&M), but unless that league begins to fall apart, I don't see any of them coming. It took years to get to scholarships, good luck with changes to the AI or redshirting. I suppose we could try and pluck one of the NEC schools, but they already passed on Bryant, and I can't believe there'd be any interest in Sacred Heart or Wagner if already none for Monmouth (though maybe Bobby V dreams big...)

9. Playoff Standing
After this year's standings debacle, I should hope we have two-bid prospects. 24 teams is a lot, and with GSU and App State moving up, the SoCon seems to be slipping nationally. I think a few of the programs in the League are capable of putting together teams that regularly reach the Quarters, as was done in the late 1990s-early 2000s. That last step, to national title contender, is something else, of course, and I'm skeptical about any of us reaching that level in the near future.

10. Future With The Ivy League
Much of it is in their hands, of course. We have our series with Cornell, will get games with Yale and Princeton going forward, and beyond that, who knows? With the small league, there are lots of OOC opportunities, and I just don't see the Ivies jettisoning us altogether. I don't think they can, and I don't think they really want to. They'll be picky about it, sure, but there too much coaching and administrative turnover to close that door. Plus, it doesn't seem like they're scheduling a decade into the future right now, so there will be openings