Eye opening NDSU fan support

[Twentysix]

Posted by NDSU's facebook:

8,329 Bison fans have bought tickets to Friday night's Pep Fest at Dr. Pepper Ballpark! 8,000+ for a pep rally 1,100 miles from Fargo!

Perspective...this is more than all other NCAA FCS Quarterfinal and Semifinal game attendances not played at the Fargodome this year.

Qtrs...
Towson at Eastern Illinois - 3,850
Jacksonville at E. Washington - 4,277
UNH at SE Louisiana - 5,586

Semi's
Towson at E. Washington - 6,209

Get your tickets before they're gone! Enter promo code NDSU
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(https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10152161006169532&set=a.214525824531.164571.7791099531&type=1)

[Twentysix]

A pep rally in Texas has better attendance than playoff games... pathetic showing by the FCS this year.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

A pep rally in Texas has better attendance than playoff games... pathetic showing by the FCS this year.


Plus the Gophers only sold 3,400 tickets to their bowl game in Texas from their allotment.....xlolx

[NoDak 4 Ever]

To be fair, they weren't giving 2 drinks away with each ticket.

xlolx

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

A pep rally in Texas has better attendance than playoff games... pathetic showing by the FCS this year.


Fans of FBS bowl games have not traveled well either. Most of these bowl games had tens of thousands of empty seats.

[Sader87]

You have to start wondering if NDSU has become a victim of its own success somewhat.

What other FCS school is going to travel like that to Frisco??? Not many...Montana maybe? Some of the schools in Texas/Louisiana due to its closeness?

Point being, as Peggy Lee once sang, when do NDSU fans start saying "is that all there is???"

[NoDak 4 Ever]

You have to start wondering if NDSU has become a victim of its own success somewhat.

What other FCS school is going to travel like that to Frisco??? Not many...Montana maybe? Some of the schools in Texas/Louisiana due to its closeness?

Point being, as Peggy Lee once sang, when do NDSU fans start saying "is that all there is???"

Ask the folks that went to McAllen/Florence all those years. It was always a party and this is no different.

[Tubakat2014]

A pep rally in Texas has better attendance than playoff games... pathetic showing by the FCS this year.

As others have pointed out, many FBS teams have trouble getting more than a few thousand of their fans to go to bowl games. Why would you expect anything different from the FCS playoffs? How many more ways can you possibly say that NDSU is the best FCS team with the best fan support? I have always been supportive of NDSU fans on this forum, but this is beginning to get a bit ridiculous. Nobody seriously questions NDSU anymore, there's nobody left to convince that NDSU is the pinnacle of success.

[IBleedYellow]

As others have pointed out, many FBS teams have trouble getting more than a few thousand of their fans to go to bowl games. Why would you expect anything different from the FCS playoffs? How many more ways can you possibly say that NDSU is the best FCS team with the best fan support? I have always been supportive of NDSU fans on this forum, but this is beginning to get a bit ridiculous. Nobody seriously questions NDSU anymore, there's nobody left to convince that NDSU is the pinnacle of success.

While, I am not sure what 2-6's point of his post was... I'm starting to feel the same way.

It's pretty damn sweet that we are able to bring these many people this far away! Thanks for the post 2-6, I didn't even take the time to realize those numbers.

Sent from my XT1053 using Tapatalk

[Twentysix]

As others have pointed out, many FBS teams have trouble getting more than a few thousand of their fans to go to bowl games. Why would you expect anything different from the FCS playoffs? How many more ways can you possibly say that NDSU is the best FCS team with the best fan support? I have always been supportive of NDSU fans on this forum, but this is beginning to get a bit ridiculous. Nobody seriously questions NDSU anymore, there's nobody left to convince that NDSU is the pinnacle of success.

Apples and oranges on attendance Bowl games are not played a home stadium.

Playoff games aren't held at a nuetral site. Semi-final games not getting 6500 people? Seriously?

The FCS needs to step up their hometown marketing of the playoffs. They are a big deal and should be treated like one, to not even get 50% attendance is just sad.

EIU seats 10k according to their stadium bio, 3,800 in attendance.

Roos is listed at 12k with temp seating. They had 30% attendance for the qtrs and 50% attendance for the semi's. Pathetic.

[Twentysix]

While, I am not sure what 2-6's point of his post was... I'm starting to feel the same way.

It's pretty damn sweet that we are able to bring these many people this far away! Thanks for the post 2-6, I didn't even take the time to realize those numbers.

Sent from my XT1053 using Tapatalk

So you are ok with Semi final games that have 50% attendance? Quarters that have 30% attendance? You don't think other FCS schools should hold the playoffs in higher esteem?

How would you have felt if there were 5,700 people for a playoff game in the dome. That is 30%.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Apples and oranges on attendance Bowl games are not played a home stadium.

Playoff games aren't held at a nuetral site. Semi-final games not getting 6500 people? Seriously?

The FCS needs to step up their hometown marketing of the playoffs. They are a big deal and should be treated like one, to not even get 50% attendance is just sad.

EIU seats 10k according to their stadium bio, 3,800 in attendance.

Roos is listed at 12k with temp seating. They had 30% attendance for the qtrs and 50% attendance for the semi's. Pathetic.

and they're expanding because......red turf?

[Twentysix]

and they're expanding because......red turf?

Yeah, 16,600 capacity will make that 3500 person crowd look even better.

[Tubakat2014]

While, I am not sure what 2-6's point of his post was... I'm starting to feel the same way.

It's pretty damn sweet that we are able to bring these many people this far away! Thanks for the post 2-6, I didn't even take the time to realize those numbers.

Sent from my XT1053 using Tapatalk

Yes, I don't want to gloss over that- NDSU has some very impressive numbers for the pep rally.


Apples and oranges on attendance Bowl games are not played a home stadium.

Playoff games aren't held at a nuetral site. Semi-final games not getting 6500 people? Seriously?

The FCS needs to step up their hometown marketing of the playoffs. They are a big deal and should be treated like one, to not even get 50% attendance is just sad.

EIU seats 10k according to their stadium bio, 3,800 in attendance.

Roos is listed at 12k with temp seating. They had 30% attendance for the qtrs and 50% attendance for the semi's. Pathetic.

It's a big deal for us. But in many towns and cities, these are no name regional schools that play DII football. It's hard to gain a foothold in places where NFL and/or FBS football reign supreme. It's even harder when alumni just don't care about the football team (at least, that's SHSU's problem). Marketing departments can put a couple hundred more butts in the seats, but they can't create tradition.

[Sader87]

This really isn't a new phenomenon. The FCS playoffs have always been a tough sell....anecdotally, particularly in the Northeast. You're competing with Thanksgiving and the Christmas season, the weather is usually not that hospitable, playing schools that often are too far away to travel etc etc.

I agree in general though...the 3, 4, 5 and 6K crowds this year seem pretty bad. Not sure there is a solution though. It seems like the FCS is slowing evolving into what used to be D2 in the 1980s and 1990s.

[Twentysix]

Yes, I don't want to gloss over that- NDSU has some very impressive numbers for the pep rally.



It's a big deal for us. But in many towns and cities, these are no name regional schools that play DII football. It's hard to gain a foothold in places where NFL and/or FBS football reign supreme. It's even harder when alumni just don't care about the football team (at least, that's SHSU's problem). Marketing departments can put a couple hundred more butts in the seats, but they can't create tradition.

Yet even with all that adversity SHSU put nearly 13k people in the seats for their semi (2011 12,367), in an area full to the brim with pro and college football. Nearly 90% capacity.

This years entrants aren't small stadiums packed to the brim. They are decent FCS stadiums (in the 10k+ range) that are lightly dusted with fans.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

So you are ok with Semi final games that have 50% attendance? Quarters that have 30% attendance? You don't think other FCS schools should hold the playoffs in higher esteem?

How would you have felt if there were 5,700 people for a playoff game in the dome. That is 30%.

The crowds at EWU looked pretty good on TV; certainly better than 50% of capacity imo.

Most of the schools in FCS simply don't have the rabid fan support. The reason being, FCS is primarily made up of second tier state schools and small private universities. Not to be mean , but kids don't go up dreaming of attending Towson or EIU. In Montana kids want to be either a 'Griz or a Bobcat. Likewise, NDSU is one of the outliers...

[Tubakat2014]

Yet even with all that adversity SHSU put nearly 13k people in the seats for their semi (2011 12,367), in an area full to the brim with pro and college football. Nearly 90% capacity.

Yes, but that is the exception, not the rule. That game was unforgettable for me, in large part because of the amazingly enthusiastic and large crowd. No other home playoff game that season or since that game has had even remotely the same kind of crowd, either in energy or in size. I really hoped that game was going to be a building block for Bearkat fans, but so far it seems like it was just an anomaly. I suppose the marketing department could be partially blamed for failing to capitalize on the number of first-time and infrequent fans, but it is what it is.

[Twentysix]

The crowds at EWU looked pretty good on TV; certainly better than 50% of capacity imo.

Most of the schools in FCS simply don't have the rabid fan support. The reason being, FCS is primarily made up of second tier state schools and small private universities. Not to be mean , but kids don't go up dreaming of attending Towson or EIU. In Montana kids want to be either a 'Griz or a Bobcat. Likewise, NDSU is one of the outliers...

Yet during the regular season the non rabid fans have time to go to the game? They (EWU) posted 10k+ several times this season, even with non-montana opponents

Why these people won't go to a semi, but will go to weber state (1-5) is beyond me. The playoffs are a bfd, a much bigger deal than any regular season game. The marketing departments need to get the message across, because it apparently isn't clear to the typical fcs fan.

http://espn.go.com/ncf/boxscore?gameId=332780331

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Yet during the regular season the non rabid fans have time to go to the game? They (EWU) posted 10k+ several times this season, even with non-montana opponents

Why these people won't go to a semi, but will go to weber state (1-5) is beyond me. The playoffs are a bfd, a much bigger deal than any regular season game. The marketing departments need to get the message across, because it apparently isn't clear to the typical fcs fan.

http://espn.go.com/ncf/boxscore?gameId=332780331

I know Montana State took about 2k fans to Chaney.

You also must factor in familiarity with opponent and weather. The semifinal was played when travel was less than desirable. Also, having a national broadcast will keep the majority of fence sitters at home. Especially when the school is in the middle of nowhere.

I thought the EWU-Towson crowd looked good. Wazzu was also playing a bowl game at the same time. I was impressed with the crowd....

[Sader87]

It's really a problem beyond the playoffs themselves....and not limited to FCS either. There have been a lot of articles on even SEC attendance dropping off lately.

Been discussed on our board ad nauseum. Holy Cross used to routinely have crowds in the 15-25K range in the 1970s and 1980s but now draw basically in the 5-10K range. The usual culprits are more TV games/internet, families doing their own thing i.e. youth sports etc, crackdown on tailgating...in HC's case a drop off in competition etc etc

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Yeah, 16,600 capacity will make that 3500 person crowd look even better.

I know it's sort of a stretch to most but I think it would help them alot. EWU was never a big get for a local fan. Things have changed pretty dramatically there as far as fervor goes over the last 4 yrs. It has not yet taken the step where they have real serious footing and they may never have the kind of support NDSU does but something like a massively upgraded stadioum would probably help move them down the path a bit further.

So far they've capitalized on some success by sort of spit polishing somerelatively inexpensive upgrades. If they take the next step with the stadioum I believe you would see a more serious change in their attendance and pride in the program.

Whether there is animosity between NDSU fans, Montana fans, etc. with some EWU fans their direction seems to be on the uptik and I think their administration has done as much as they can to try and elicit the excitement from the fanbase but that next step has to be taken or it falls flat. I do not mean the team I mean the fans that support the team.

[Twentysix]

I know it's sort of a stretch to most but I think it would help them alot. EWU was never a big get for a local fan. Things have changed pretty dramatically there as far as fervor goes over the last 4 yrs. It has not yet taken the step where they have real serious footing and they may never have the kind of support NDSU does but something like a massively upgraded stadioum would probably help move them down the path a bit further.

So far they've capitalized on some success by sort of spit polishing somerelatively inexpensive upgrades. If they take the next step with the stadioum I believe you would see a more serious change in their attendance and pride in the program.

Whether there is animosity between NDSU fans, Montana fans, etc. with some EWU fans their direction seems to be on the uptik and I think their administration has done as much as they can to try and elicit the excitement from the fanbase but that next step has to be taken or it falls flat. I do not mean the team I mean the fans that support the team.

Doesn't matter how much I dislike one particular team, I still want EWU to grow and grow and grow and grow. And all the others for that matter, it's good for the subdivision. I hope the new stadium is what they need and they make every penny back from their expansion.

What I want is ****ty playoff attendance to get worked out. Thanksgiving games are obviously exempt to a certain extent. That is always going to be a difficult time period. But qtrs and semis, especially televised, need to do better than they did this year.

The FCS is losing/has lost too many strong (attendance) programs, new ones need to step up and fill the void.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

I know it's sort of a stretch to most but I think it would help them alot. EWU was never a big get for a local fan. Things have changed pretty dramatically there as far as fervor goes over the last 4 yrs. It has not yet taken the step where they have real serious footing and they may never have the kind of support NDSU does but something like a massively upgraded stadioum would probably help move them down the path a bit further.

So far they've capitalized on some success by sort of spit polishing somerelatively inexpensive upgrades. If they take the next step with the stadioum I believe you would see a more serious change in their attendance and pride in the program.

Whether there is animosity between NDSU fans, Montana fans, etc. with some EWU fans their direction seems to be on the uptik and I think their administration has done as much as they can to try and elicit the excitement from the fanbase but that next step has to be taken or it falls flat. I do not mean the team I mean the fans that support the team.

EWU has come along way the last 10 years. Not too long ago they were playing home games in Spokane....

Not trying to hate, but any school with an open enrollment is going to have trouble building a rabid alumni base. Heck, Cowherd is an Eagle that pretends to be an UW alum....

[Twentysix]

EWU has come along way the last 10 years. Not too long ago they were playing home games in Spokane....

Not trying to hate, but any school with an open enrollment is going to have trouble building a rabid alumni base. Heck, Cowherd is an Eagle that pretends to be an UW alum....


I don't know if I want the answer, but... what is "open enrollment". It sounds like an application isn't a part of the process, lol.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

I don't know if I want the answer, but... what is "open enrollment". It sounds like their isn't an application lol.

I didn't know what open enrollment meant either until about 6 weeks ago. And Yes, they basically accept everyone....

[stevdock]

EWU has come along way the last 10 years. Not too long ago they were playing home games in Spokane....

Not trying to hate, but any school with an open enrollment is going to have trouble building a rabid alumni base. Heck, Cowherd is an Eagle that pretends to be an UW alum....

While I understand where 26 is coming from, NDSU has come along ways in the last 10 years too. Fargo built the dome for NDSU playoff football in 1992 and it took almost 20 years to finally get a playoff game and IIRC there were about 12,000 people in the stands. Outside of our recent success and a little bit during the 10-1 seasons NDSU probably averaged around 10-12,000 fans a game. I get that is still way ahead of the teams he's talking about, but NDSU's recent success has more to do with attendance than anything else.

[Sader87]

The FCS right now is a sort of a weird amalgamation of schools (as I guess it always has been). I don't think you're ever going to see a school in the Northeast draw like NDSU and Montana do now. Delaware has historically but if I had to bet, my guess is that their crowds will continue to trend down not up. No one else in the Northeast comes close to drawing 20K on average. The other "big following" FCS schools in the CAA like UMass and UConn have gone FBS. The Ivy crowds have diminished greatly over the last 30 or so years. Most of the PL and NEC schools don't have either the following or the facility to draw large/15K+ crowds.

The thing is, NDSU is really one of only a handful of schools at the FCS-level that are going to draw like they do at home and travel as they do to Frisco.

[Twentysix]

The FCS right now is a sort of a weird amalgamation of schools (as I guess it always has been). I don't think you're ever going to see a school in the Northeast draw like NDSU and Montana do now. Delaware has historically but if I had to bet, my guess is that their crowds will continue to trend down not up. No one else in the Northeast comes close to drawing 20K on average. The other "big following" FCS schools in the CAA like UMass and UConn have gone FBS. The Ivy crowds have diminished greatly over the last 30 or so years. Most of the PL and NEC schools don't have either the following or the facility to draw large/15K+ crowds.

The thing is, NDSU is really one of only a handful of schools at the FCS-level that are going to draw like they do at home and travel as they do to Frisco.

Even drawing 10-15k for playoff games would be a huge improvement. Or just drawing 85%+ attendance. If you are a school with a tiny stadium, atleast pack it to the brim!

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Even drawing 10-15k for playoff games would be a huge improvement. Or just drawing 85%+ attendance. If you are a school with a tiny stadium, atleast pack it to the brim!

There's very few teams that are capable of doing that regardless of opponent.

In the Northeast, Lehigh, Lafayette, Holy Cross, Towson and Delaware can pull it off. Other than Delaware, it would have to be either a semifinal or local/attractive opponent for the others to pull it off imo. 10k won't show up to Goodman for a quarterfinal against EIU, but against Villanova or W&M there's a chance....

[Franks Tanks]

- - - Updated - - -


Plus the Gophers only sold 3,400 tickets to their bowl game in Texas from their allotment.....xlolx

Fans realize that it is much cheaper to buy tickets through stubhub or other means, than through the school in these bowl situations. There were probably a lot more Gopher fans at the game.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

- - - Updated - - -



Fans realize that it is much cheaper to buy tickets through stubhub or other means, than through the school in these bowl situations. There were probably a lot more Gopher fans at the game.


Yes, I know.

32K fans at Reliant Stadium that holds a little over 71K.

There were tickets for this game going for less than $5.

[TwinCitiesBison]

Yes, I know.

32K fans at Reliant Stadium that holds a little over 71K.

There were tickets for this game going for less than $5.

I think it's comparing apples to oranges when it comes to FCS Playoff attendance to FBS Bowl attendance and it's all about the economics. Take the Gophers, for example (no, please...take them!). For flight, hotel, and rental car down to Houston from the Twin Cities for a Friday through Sunday is over $700 and that doesn't include food, drink, game ticket, or entertainment...not to mention the cost of the psychiatric visits that it will take to fix you once you realized you spent all this money to watch the Gophers s#@% the bed against a piss-poor Syracuse team. After it's all said and done, you're spending over $1000 to go to Houston (NOT a fan of the city at all) to watch...The Texas Bowl? I'm surprised as many fans travel to some of these games as they do.

[Sader87]

I think it's comparing apples to oranges when it comes to FCS Playoff attendance to FBS Bowl attendance and it's all about the economics. Take the Gophers, for example (no, please...take them!). For flight, hotel, and rental car down to Houston from the Twin Cities for a Friday through Sunday is over $700 and that doesn't include food, drink, game ticket, or entertainment...not to mention the cost of the psychiatric visits that it will take to fix you once you realized you spent all this money to watch the Gophers s#@% the bed against a piss-poor Syracuse team. After it's all said and done, you're spending over $1000 to go to Houston (NOT a fan of the city at all) to watch...The Texas Bowl? I'm surprised as many fans travel to some of these games as they do.

That's a great point.

Let's face it, making a Bowl game hasn't really been a "big deal" since probably the late 1980s or so. There are way too many of them, often they are in locations that people aren't going to drop big $$$ for etc.

I know a fair amount of BC people through family/friends/work etc, not a single one is going to be in Shreveport tomorrow.

[Bisonoline]

When 70 teams out of 119 make it to a "bowl" game they some how lose some relevance to the casual sports fan. Even For the hard core fan it difficult to get excited about anything in the first 25 bowl games.

[Big Rack]

It's really a problem beyond the playoffs themselves....and not limited to FCS either. There have been a lot of articles on even SEC attendance dropping off lately.

Been discussed on our board ad nauseum. Holy Cross used to routinely have crowds in the 15-25K range in the 1970s and 1980s but now draw basically in the 5-10K range. The usual culprits are more TV games/internet, families doing their own thing i.e. youth sports etc, crackdown on tailgating...in HC's case a drop off in competition etc etc

You forgot the big one which is Obamacare.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

You forgot the big one which is Obamacare.

Just so we al know. The politics is going to stay in the Lounge/Poli wing in a day or two. You probably didn't know so just letting ya know.xthumbsupx

[frozennorth]

the OP needs to keep in mind that more or less every marque program was either not in the field (MSU UD JMU UNI YSU SIU) eliminated early (maine, UM) or played on the road (UNH, SHSU)

[frozennorth]

wasn't it just a year or two ago that they set the record attendance?

[Twentysix]

wasn't it just a year or two ago that they set the record attendance?

An attendance record was set by playing additional games.

It wasn't avgs.

16 teams vs 20 teams vs 24 teams.

Even with bad attendance this will probably be another new record year because of the additional games.

[fc97]

another thing is that while montana, montana state, delaware and the dakota schools are the primary go-to colleges of those states, the rest of the fcs schools are not. the rest of the fcs schools share markets, and many times alumni, with much of the fbs schools. in the case of the much of the fcs, you are talking smaller enrollment directional schools or private schools. couple that with private schools who have a percentage of the alumni that these schools have, scattered over wider area. then couple that with the fact that many of these programs are in states where people are splitting their time and money between going to games of that school, nhl, nba, nfl or any number of other local entertainment activities.

in other words, it is easy to tout ndsu as the best in fan support. they are definitely up there. but, they are really the only game in the state too.

[darell1976]

The FCS is losing/has lost too many strong (attendance) programs, new ones need to step up and fill the void.


We are working on it, just have to get rid of the garbage (Muss ball), and get the program back towards "respectable" to quote Coach Bubba!! UND in the 2000's were in the top 10 almost every year in DII attendance (2001-2007), I know its DII but for our 13,500 dome that's pretty good. Will we get to the fanbase like NDSU, not for football but if UND can produce a winner like NDSU has basically every year fans will come to the game. Just win baby!!

[Hammerhead]

One also has to keep in mind that an average attendance of 7,000 fans per game for the year is all it takes to put a team in the top half of FCS attendance. 10,000 puts you in the top 25% of teams.

[BisonBacker]

This really isn't a new phenomenon. The FCS playoffs have always been a tough sell....anecdotally, particularly in the Northeast. You're competing with Thanksgiving and the Christmas season, the weather is usually not that hospitable, playing schools that often are too far away to travel etc etc.

I agree in general though...the 3, 4, 5 and 6K crowds this year seem pretty bad. Not sure there is a solution though. It seems like the FCS is slowing evolving into what used to be D2 in the 1980s and 1990s.

I haven't chimed in much on the debate that has and will continue to go on about schools moving up to FBS but this comment hit the nail on the proverbial head. With FCS losing schools like Appy, Go. Southern, the list goes on and on I seriously have to question how long can schools like Montana and NDSU stay at this level? JMU rumors are floating about on a possible move. Another poster questions how long will it be for NDSU fans to say "is this it"? Is there anymore? I'm not saying I'm all wild and excited about bowl games because I'm not. I think they are a joke. I like the playoff format but I don't like the idea that NDSU is playing in a division where we are fooling around with teams that really should be DII. I'm not going to name names as most who are knowledgeable about FCS history know which schools I'm talking about. And for those who will take this as me pumping NDSU up as something it's not you are wrong. I realize we are looked at the same way by the FBS big dogs. My point is there is and continues to be a dividing line that has gotten skewed over time and we are slowly looking like this poster has alluded to and that is a DII conference in many respects. Seriously Lafayette and other schools who don't put money into their programs at the level to be competitive should they really be playing at this level? Or should NDSU, Montana be playing at this level? It really raises some questions that are going to have to be answered sooner or later. When that is I don't know and I realize that it's not just winning on the field that counts but the poster I quoted is right. When are fans going to start really asking these questions? I for one know I don't want to see NDSU be left behind by it's peer institutions as they were back in the late 70's early 80's when others made the move to 1AA.

[BisonBacker]

Sorry for the thread drift also.

[344Johnson]

I'll try not to complain about attendance too much. The BCS conferences probably scoff at some of the smaller FBS teams attendance issues as well.

I'll also note, if VCSU or Jamestown College were hosting playoff games, I doubt they'd have full stadiums....why? Because they are not NDSU or UND. Probably a similar deal to what goes on for the FCS schools with the big bad FBS around.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

As has been said already there is some poor attendance and it would be great if some teams were to pick it up and their fans were more supportive in the playoffs but it's been that way for a long time.

twentysix, It looked like you had maybe done some number comparisons and hope I hadn't missed it but what was the avg. compared to previous years if you have it?

FCS overall attendance for 2012 and also ticket revenue were both up in 2012 (don't know what 2013 is) so I think things are moving in the better direction across the country as opposed to the worse direction.

FCS was up percentage wise in revenue and butts in seats more than FBS was as a whole also. The article was posted here but I can't remember who posted it and haven't looked for it. It would be interesting to see if the playoffs are not holding to that same thing.

[Tubakat2014]

I haven't chimed in much on the debate that has and will continue to go on about schools moving up to FBS but this comment hit the nail on the proverbial head. With FCS losing schools like Appy, Go. Southern, the list goes on and on I seriously have to question how long can schools like Montana and NDSU stay at this level? JMU rumors are floating about on a possible move. Another poster questions how long will it be for NDSU fans to say "is this it"? Is there anymore? I'm not saying I'm all wild and excited about bowl games because I'm not. I think they are a joke. I like the playoff format but I don't like the idea that NDSU is playing in a division where we are fooling around with teams that really should be DII. I'm not going to name names as most who are knowledgeable about FCS history know which schools I'm talking about. And for those who will take this as me pumping NDSU up as something it's not you are wrong. I realize we are looked at the same way by the FBS big dogs. My point is there is and continues to be a dividing line that has gotten skewed over time and we are slowly looking like this poster has alluded to and that is a DII conference in many respects. Seriously Lafayette and other schools who don't put money into their programs at the level to be competitive should they really be playing at this level? Or should NDSU, Montana be playing at this level? It really raises some questions that are going to have to be answered sooner or later. When that is I don't know and I realize that it's not just winning on the field that counts but the poster I quoted is right. When are fans going to start really asking these questions? I for one know I don't want to see NDSU be left behind by it's peer institutions as they were back in the late 70's early 80's when others made the move to 1AA.

You raise a very good point. Being in the same division does not automatically mean that two teams are anywhere close to being "peer institutions". In fact, the dividing line between divisions is becoming increasingly questionable. Lower-tier FBS schools have more in common with upper-tier FCS schools than the BCS schools. Lower tier FCS schools have more in common with upper-tier DII schools than upper-tier FCS schools. Maybe it's time for a reset?


I'll try not to complain about attendance too much. The BCS conferences probably scoff at some of the smaller FBS teams attendance issues as well.

I'll also note, if VCSU or Jamestown College were hosting playoff games, I doubt they'd have full stadiums....why? Because they are not NDSU or UND. Probably a similar deal to what goes on for the FCS schools with the big bad FBS around.

Exactly. People are naturally attracted to the dominant programs in the area, regardless of any personal connection to those programs.

[dwtime]

A pep rally in Texas has better attendance than playoff games... pathetic showing by the FCS this year.

Lets face it, every other team is pathetic in the eyes of 'many' NDSU fans and most of the ones that post on here. Says alot about you.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Lets face it, every other team is pathetic in the eyes of 'many' NDSU fans and most of the ones that post on here. Says alot about you.

There's a solution to that. Get better. :D

[dwtime]

There's a solution to that. Get better. :D

The other solution will happen as well (see App St.) enjoy it while you have it, it won't last forever.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

There's a solution to that. Get better. :D

Funny thing is you are very likely talking to fans on here that do support their program and attend and all of that. In other words they would like to see this more than anyone else on here. If you are a member here you are very likely a little more like us than even members of our own fanbases that are not here...even though those other members of our fanbases do make an effort to go and enjoy in the revelry.

[Sycamore62]

Im not an EIU fan but I do live here so Ill throw a little perspective at the EIU vs Towson attendance. It was rainy/snowy/cold as S***. It was on ESPN2 which did a pretty good job covering the game. Our town has about 20k people which probably includes 6k as students. It was the night before graduation, so many of the students had already gone back to Chicago for break. Im not sure what the dorm rules were for students that wanted to stay for the game.

Compare that to a town with 100k that plays indoors. I probably would have gone had the game been played inside. Im surprised that they had as many people go to the game as they did.

[BisonBacker]

Lets face it, every other team is pathetic in the eyes of 'many' NDSU fans and most of the ones that post on here. Says alot about you.

I disagree with that comment. The vast majority of NDSU fans I know all realize the run we are on will not be endless and we will have our down years. A very minute portion of the overall NDSU fanbase is represented here on these message boards and unfortunately some folks base their opinion on that representation. This years team in regard to the competition level has shown that NDSU has been head and shoulders above the level of competition they have played thusfar. But that doesn't mean the NDSU supporters think they the competition are pathetic it just means we are very lucky to experience what maybe a once in a lifetime run like this. Overall NDSU has a history of success but that doesn't mean we think everyone else is pathetic. I would think you would understand that if you watched the game we played against you. I saw a great deal of respect between both the players on the field and the fans in the stands. I was at the game.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

The other solution will happen as well (see App St.) enjoy it while you have it, it won't last forever.

:13 to :23 in this clip about sums it up.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fw6tzjbILpE

[Sader87]

The reasons NDSU seems more and more an outlier are multiple.

1. They've done a tremendous job both on and off the field to produce a superior product at a "fun" venue. They are also in a perfect location for them as there aren't many other FCS programs in the upper Midwest (I don't think either Minnesota or Wisconsin have a single FCS program.)

2. The FCS has become "watered down" over the last 10-20 years. Watered down not so much on the field itself but many programs that could rival NDSU in terms of attendance/following (Akron, Boise St, UConn, Marshall and many others) have jumped to FBS.

3. The "Dayton rule" has allowed a lot of smaller programs entry into the FCS-level. I'm not saying that's wrong, just that it makes NDSU's following seem that much larger than a lot of schools playing at the FCS-level due to this rule.

There are many other reasons I'm sure as well...but I think those are the Big 3.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

I disagree with that comment. The vast majority of NDSU fans I know all realize the run we are on will not be endless and we will have our down years. A very minute portion of the overall NDSU fanbase is represented here on these message boards and unfortunately some folks base their opinion on that representation. This years team in regard to the competition level has shown that NDSU has been head and shoulders above the level of competition they have played thusfar. But that doesn't mean the NDSU supporters think they the competition are pathetic it just means we are very lucky to experience what maybe a once in a lifetime run like this. Overall NDSU has a history of success but that doesn't mean we think everyone else is pathetic. I would think you would understand that if you watched the game we played against you. I saw a great deal of respect between both the players on the field and the fans in the stands. I was at the game.

That's the key thing right there. Good up BB.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

The reasons NDSU seems more and more an outlier are multiple.

1. They've done a tremendous job both on and off the field to produce a superior product at a "fun" venue. They are also in a perfect location for them as there aren't many other FCS programs in the upper Midwest (I don't think either Minnesota or Wisconsin have a single FCS program.)

2. The FCS has become "watered down" over the last 10-20 years. Watered down not so much on the field itself but many programs that could rival NDSU in terms of attendance/following (Akron, Boise St, UConn, Marshall and many others) have jumped to FBS.

3. The "Dayton rule" has allowed a lot of smaller programs entry into the FCS-level. I'm not saying that's wrong, just that it makes NDSU's following seem that much larger than a lot of schools playing at the FCS-level due to this rule.

There are many other reasons I'm sure as well...but I think those are the Big 3.

Sader, I'm not positive but fee pretty confident that if we compared the attendance of the top 10 programs in the early 90's to the attendance of now it wouldn't have the disparity you seem to be saying that there is.

[Sader87]

I'm not saying those programs all drew that well, "NDSU well" anyway, but there were a lot more programs in NDSU's universe then in FCS so to speak.

In a way, I both envy and pity NDSU at the same time. Obviously I envy their success but I do sort of feel for them as they are kind of "stuck geographically" in terms of jumping into a FBS league like the MAC or MWC and are probably institutionally too small for the B1G or Big 12. They can continue to dominate/be very strong at the FCS level, and given their locale/tradition of success etc, I'm sure they will....the question is, how long before that becomes sort of passé?

[ursus arctos horribilis]

I'm not saying those programs all drew that well, "NDSU well" anyway, but there were a lot more programs in NDSU's universe then in FCS so to speak.

In a way, I both envy and pity NDSU at the same time. Obviously I envy their success but I do sort of feel for them as they are kind of "stuck geographically" in terms of jumping into a FBS league like the MAC or MWC and are probably institutionally too small for the B1G or Big 12. They can continue to dominate/be very strong at the FCS level, and given their locale/tradition of success etc, I'm sure they will....the question is, how long before that becomes sort of passé?

I've never seen making the NC game as passé or felt less excited and elated when UM won their second one compared to the first one. Now we haven't been in the position to have a three year run like this but I can't imagine it gets less exciting for most.

I'm different than some though because I have zero passion for FBS...even BCS but I will watch the Rose Bowl as I usually do I suppose. Won't care one way or the other but will watch. xlolx

It's probably a ways off and would take a little more sustained effort like we see right now so you may be putting the cart in front of the horse right now.

[tomq04]

I'm 4 pages late, but my friends that were at all of the EWU games (regular season) said the semi final was just as full as those games recorded at 10K+.

The SDSU game I attended was definitely only half, 5000 (reported at 3500), but it was -11 windchill out at kick off...brr

[Herder]

What does a Bowl win earn you? Zip, nothing! If I were a gopher fan, what would winning the TX Bowl mean to me? Very little, is the answer.

The bison Towson game is for a championship,period. There are only 2 or 3 bowls that have meaning and the fans are hanging on every play. Championships have significant meaning for Bison fan, whether its DII or DI FCS. Going DI FBS won't be pursued by NDSU until the conf NDSU would join would have access to the national championship in FBS.

[centennial]

The Fargo-Moorhead area is over 200k+ add places within another 1 hour drive and we are looking over 300k. The problem with NDSU is that there are 2 main state institutions(and total of 6 state schools) unlike a state like Wyoming. Add to that the state doesn't really support NDSU much, we could've been a 20-25k university if the state invested more money. Without the incredible success that we have had I don't even think we sell out the dome every time. Unless there is a huge realignment or the big 5 go away from NCAA we are stuck in the FCS level. I don't think we would get this kind of support with 8-4 seasons in the MAC and going to meaningless bowl games most years. We are too north for MW and too west for MAC.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

What does a Bowl win earn you? Zip, nothing! If I were a gopher fan, what would winning the TX Bowl mean to me? Very little, is the answer.

The bison Towson game is for a championship,period. There are only 2 or 3 bowls that have meaning and the fans are hanging on every play. Championships have significant meaning for Bison fan, whether its DII or DI FCS. Going DI FBS won't be pursued by NDSU until the conf NDSU would join would have access to the national championship in FBS.

The thing about this also is that you have at least 3 win or go home chances at the highest level of drama to get the biggest game in which you have that same thing between the final two teams that have faced these same tests just to try it one last time against each other.

There is no way that can be matched unless it is incorporated.

[Gil Dobie]

The Fargo-Moorhead area is over 200k+ add places within another 1 hour drive and we are looking over 300k. The problem with NDSU is that there are 2 main state institutions(and total of 6 state schools) unlike a state like Wyoming. Add to that the state doesn't really support NDSU much, we could've been a 20-25k university if the state invested more money. Without the incredible success that we have had I don't even think we sell out the dome every time. Unless there is a huge realignment or the big 5 go away from NCAA we are stuck in the FCS level. I don't think we would get this kind of support with 8-4 seasons in the MAC and going to meaningless bowl games most years. We are too north for MW and too west for MAC.

Perfect geographical fit for the Sun Belt ;)
http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110226054931/glee/images/1/10/Maybe_This_Time.gif

[centennial]

Perfect geographical fit for the Sun Belt ;)
http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110226054931/glee/images/1/10/Maybe_This_Time.gif
Any where in Merica'

[Vitojr130]

What does a Bowl win earn you? Zip, nothing! If I were a gopher fan, what would winning the TX Bowl mean to me? Very little, is the answer.

The bison Towson game is for a championship,period. There are only 2 or 3 bowls that have meaning and the fans are hanging on every play. Championships have significant meaning for Bison fan, whether its DII or DI FCS. Going DI FBS won't be pursued by NDSU until the conf NDSU would join would have access to the national championship in FBS.

I disagree. NDSU will pursue the next step up when the current step starts resembling what DII did 2 decades ago. It's already starting to and GT has been on record saying we won't be left behind for a second time.

[BisonBacker]

What does a Bowl win earn you? Zip, nothing! If I were a gopher fan, what would winning the TX Bowl mean to me? Very little, is the answer.

The bison Towson game is for a championship,period. There are only 2 or 3 bowls that have meaning and the fans are hanging on every play. Championships have significant meaning for Bison fan, whether its DII or DI FCS. Going DI FBS won't be pursued by NDSU until the conf NDSU would join would have access to the national championship in FBS.

That will never happen

[NoDak 4 Ever]

That will never happen

This. There is an artificial ceiling in FBS that is impenetrable.

[BisonBacker]

I disagree. NDSU will pursue the next step up when the current step starts resembling what DII did 2 decades ago. It's already starting to and GT has been on record saying we won't be left behind for a second time.

I agree with this notion but the bigger question even though Gene has said this is how do you make it happen without having the funding in place for one. Next is what conference would NDSU join? As has already been stated there is really no conference that NDSU fits geographically at the next level. We certainly are not BigX material based on their criteria. Unless a newly formed conference maybe with the Montana's, the Dakotas, UNI ect were to make that move but that isn't happening. So it is what it is I guess.

[dewey]

I disagree with that comment. The vast majority of NDSU fans I know all realize the run we are on will not be endless and we will have our down years. A very minute portion of the overall NDSU fanbase is represented here on these message boards and unfortunately some folks base their opinion on that representation. This years team in regard to the competition level has shown that NDSU has been head and shoulders above the level of competition they have played thusfar. But that doesn't mean the NDSU supporters think they the competition are pathetic it just means we are very lucky to experience what maybe a once in a lifetime run like this. Overall NDSU has a history of success but that doesn't mean we think everyone else is pathetic. I would think you would understand that if you watched the game we played against you. I saw a great deal of respect between both the players on the field and the fans in the stands. I was at the game.

100% agreed. I understand that NDSU is in the middle of a historic run and there will be some down years ahead. To fans from other teams please do not paint all of us Bison fans with the same brush.

Dewey

[MplsBison]

A pep rally in Texas has better attendance than playoff games... pathetic showing by the FCS this year.

#ShouldBeInFBS xthumbsupx xthumbsupx xthumbsupx

[MplsBison]

You have to start wondering if NDSU has become a victim of its own success somewhat.

What other FCS school is going to travel like that to Frisco??? Not many...Montana maybe? Some of the schools in Texas/Louisiana due to its closeness?

Point being, as Peggy Lee once sang, when do NDSU fans start saying "is that all there is???"

Been saying that.

Our only hope is if FBS will open the heavily fortified gates to new teams or even conferences outside the hallowed CFP agreement. I'd give it a 50/50 chance.

[MplsBison]

Apples and oranges on attendance Bowl games are not played a home stadium.

Playoff games aren't held at a nuetral site. Semi-final games not getting 6500 people? Seriously?

The FCS needs to step up their hometown marketing of the playoffs. They are a big deal and should be treated like one, to not even get 50% attendance is just sad.

EIU seats 10k according to their stadium bio, 3,800 in attendance.

Roos is listed at 12k with temp seating. They had 30% attendance for the qtrs and 50% attendance for the semi's. Pathetic.

Don't disagree...but those games were played in damn snowstorms. Those are small ball conditions. At least the Fargodome allows high level, high performance football to be played - as it should be.

The two best players in FCS, hands down - Garappolo and Adams - were unfairly taken out of the playoffs (an out of the TV spotlight, more importantly) by the conditions. EIU and EWU would've beaten Towson if they had played in Fargo.

[MplsBison]

Yes, I don't want to gloss over that- NDSU has some very impressive numbers for the pep rally.



It's a big deal for us. But in many towns and cities, these are no name regional schools that play DII football. It's hard to gain a foothold in places where NFL and/or FBS football reign supreme. It's even harder when alumni just don't care about the football team (at least, that's SHSU's problem). Marketing departments can put a couple hundred more butts in the seats, but they can't create tradition.

Would you pay to go sit on a frozen, steel bleacher seat in the middle of a snowstorm to watch community college football?

Unless you're a parent or a drunk student, the answer is no.


That's the mentality that people who went to EWU and EIU have, even about their own college. Even if you live in Cheney or Charleston, the big time schools like Washington State and UIUC aren't very far away.

[MplsBison]

While I understand where 26 is coming from, NDSU has come along ways in the last 10 years too. Fargo built the dome for NDSU playoff football in 1992 and it took almost 20 years to finally get a playoff game and IIRC there were about 12,000 people in the stands. Outside of our recent success and a little bit during the 10-1 seasons NDSU probably averaged around 10-12,000 fans a game. I get that is still way ahead of the teams he's talking about, but NDSU's recent success has more to do with attendance than anything else.

Two things:

1) NDSU didn't deserve the playoffs that year. The last game of the season in a "must win", they s__t the bed at Missouri St. They should've been done, but the FCS selection committee forced them in because they knew Fargo would sell more tickets (and thus make the NCAA the most money) than these other schools.

2) So you had that, with people basically saying "OK I'm done with NDSU football this year" and on top of that it was one of those bulls__t Thanksgiving weekend play-in games, is basically what they are. No one draws well that weekend.

[IBleedYellow]

10k pure pep fest tickets sold! SOLD OUT!

Sent from my XT1053 using Tapatalk

[Twentysix]

The thing about this also is that you have at least 3 win or go home chances at the highest level of drama to get the biggest game in which you have that same thing between the final two teams that have faced these same tests just to try it one last time against each other.

There is no way that can be matched unless it is incorporated.

Exactly the playoffs are a BFD. Marketing departments need to work round the clock beating that into their viewers heads.

[MplsBison]

The reasons NDSU seems more and more an outlier are multiple.

1. They've done a tremendous job both on and off the field to produce a superior product at a "fun" venue. They are also in a perfect location for them as there aren't many other FCS programs in the upper Midwest (I don't think either Minnesota or Wisconsin have a single FCS program.)

2. The FCS has become "watered down" over the last 10-20 years. Watered down not so much on the field itself but many programs that could rival NDSU in terms of attendance/following (Akron, Boise St, UConn, Marshall and many others) have jumped to FBS.

3. The "Dayton rule" has allowed a lot of smaller programs entry into the FCS-level. I'm not saying that's wrong, just that it makes NDSU's following seem that much larger than a lot of schools playing at the FCS-level due to this rule.

There are many other reasons I'm sure as well...but I think those are the Big 3.

Dayton rule should be amended to allow DI athletic departments to play DII football. That's what FCS is, just with a higher scholarship maximum (and it has no minimum). It would allow some of these schools that don't want to drop varsity football but are then basically stranded in "DI football" to get into DII conferences that make much more sense for them geographically.

If DII schools are scared about DI basketball money being unfairly used to make the football program bigger, there are ways to protect against that such as installing maximums on budgets for non-aid costs: so called "operational expenses" and coaching salaries, chiefly.

[Walkon79]

I'll try not to complain about attendance too much. The BCS conferences probably scoff at some of the smaller FBS teams attendance issues as well.

I'll also note, if VCSU or Jamestown College were hosting playoff games, I doubt they'd have full stadiums....why? Because they are not NDSU or UND. Probably a similar deal to what goes on for the FCS schools with the big bad FBS around.

I don't know. Carroll College was at capacity (Over 5,000) for a 1st round playoff game, even competing against Cat/Griz just 90 miles down the road.

[MplsBison]

I'm not saying those programs all drew that well, "NDSU well" anyway, but there were a lot more programs in NDSU's universe then in FCS so to speak.

In a way, I both envy and pity NDSU at the same time. Obviously I envy their success but I do sort of feel for them as they are kind of "stuck geographically" in terms of jumping into a FBS league like the MAC or MWC and are probably institutionally too small for the B1G or Big 12. They can continue to dominate/be very strong at the FCS level, and given their locale/tradition of success etc, I'm sure they will....the question is, how long before that becomes sort of passé?

Already is.

Thing is: NDSU football is a party, a reunion, a family tradition more than anything. People aren't spending thousands of dollars to go down to Frisco, TX just to watch NDSU win a football game.

They go for the party, the celebration, the pride in their school, in their state, to reunite with friends and family, etc. It's the event.


That's how it is at B1G, SEC, etc. type schools - just on a larger level (for obvious reasons).


No one else in FCS, save for Montana and maybe a couple others (Montana St?, Delaware?, some of the HBCUs?) has that type of sentiment about the football team going on.

Any FCS team, any given year can draw a little bit of attention for winning some games. Whoppity-doo. Very few of them are Programs.


Now as far as the MWC goes, look at Wyoming - which just took our coach. The University of Wyoming has about 14k students (http://www.uwyo.edu/uw/news/2012/10/uw-fall-enrollment-hits-new-high.html). That's about the same size as NDSU, which is interesting given that North Dakota's population is similar to Wyoming's (both less than 1M, Wyo - 576k, ND - 700k) yet ND has another flagship school with similar enrollment size and then four other four-year colleges in the state, while Wyoming has none.

But then look at the money: Wyoming's endowment is $337M (http://www.uwyo.edu/foundation/_files/docs/2012%20endowment%20report%20for%20web.pdf) while NDSU's is only $118M (http://www.ndsufoundation.com/rti.pdf).

NDSU spends about $4M on football while Wyoming spends about $7M on football.


I don't know if the extra money has come because of Wyoming's historical conference affiliations? Although I have to imagine if you go far enough back that Wyo and NDSU were at one time in the same classification within the NCAA.

How did Wyo get so far ahead? Extra state funding? But that should mostly be tied to academic expenses and enrollment. The endowment is financial investments based on the gifts to the school (basically a measure of how wealthy the alumni have become) and the football budget is related to other things. But point being is that Wyo has the money to spend $7M while NDSU only has $4M to spend.

Where'd the money come from? I'd be interested to know, just to satisfy my curiosity.

[MplsBison]

The Fargo-Moorhead area is over 200k+ add places within another 1 hour drive and we are looking over 300k. The problem with NDSU is that there are 2 main state institutions(and total of 6 state schools) unlike a state like Wyoming. Add to that the state doesn't really support NDSU much, we could've been a 20-25k university if the state invested more money. Without the incredible success that we have had I don't even think we sell out the dome every time. Unless there is a huge realignment or the big 5 go away from NCAA we are stuck in the FCS level. I don't think we would get this kind of support with 8-4 seasons in the MAC and going to meaningless bowl games most years. We are too north for MW and too west for MAC.

What about an undefeated MAC season and a BCS bowl? Northern Illinois seemed to enjoy it last year. Would've been NDSU this year if the Bison were in the MAC. Guaranteed.

And here are the actual numbers (note that Census takers go by county) for the 2012 estimates:

Cass - 156k
Clay - 60k

Now right there, within both of those counties there are plenty of people who would fight you with their pitchforks if you labeled them "FM metro residents" to their faces.

But if you include Wahpeton/Breck, as the census takers do for the combined statistical area (which is ridiculous):

Richland - 16k
Wilkin - 6.5k


And immediately north of Cass/Clay, you're going to find that a large majority of the people living in those counties either grew up hating NDSU or are indifferent to both schools.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Already is.

Thing is: NDSU football is a party, a reunion, a family tradition more than anything. People aren't spending thousands of dollars to go down to Frisco, TX just to watch NDSU win a football game.

They go for the party, the celebration, the pride in their school, in their state, to reunite with friends and family, etc. It's the event.


That's how it is at B1G, SEC, etc. type schools - just on a larger level (for obvious reasons).


No one else in FCS, save for Montana and maybe a couple others (Montana St?, Delaware?, some of the HBCUs?) has that type of sentiment about the football team going on.

Any FCS team, any given year can draw a little bit of attention for winning some games. Whoppity-doo. Very few of them are Programs.



Couldn't agree with this more MPLS. This is the main difference to me. The game certainly matters alot but at the schools that do very weil with their fan support is a huge draw to get together as a community and celebrate something, have some fun with friends, etc.

That is the thing that truly makes the difference in fan support. It's not the weather, indoor/outdoor, or anything else as much as it's pride in what the school and the fans have developed in concert. The team having some success certainly fuels all this but it is not the be all end all.

[centennial]

What about an undefeated MAC season and a BCS bowl? Northern Illinois seemed to enjoy it last year. Would've been NDSU this year if the Bison were in the MAC. Guaranteed.

And here are the actual numbers (note that Census takers go by county) for the 2012 estimates:

Cass - 156k
Clay - 60k

Now right there, within both of those counties there are plenty of people who would fight you with their pitchforks if you labeled them "FM metro residents" to their faces.

But if you include Wahpeton/Breck, as the census takers do for the combined statistical area (which is ridiculous):

Richland - 16k
Wilkin - 6.5k


And immediately north of Cass/Clay, you're going to find that a large majority of the people living in those counties either grew up hating NDSU or are indifferent to both schools.
Not that I disagree with you. More fans can be won with success and there is potential. That is all I am saying. NDSU already has a lot more fans just because of FCS and our success.
As for Wyoming, they live in a state with one university. Better boosters club + more state money + more student money + much better endowment. Interesting that I tried to find their breakdown like NDSU has on their website and cannot find a link where it shows how much money each student puts into athletics.

[IBleedYellow]

Not that I disagree with you. More fans can be won with success and there is potential. That is all I am saying. NDSU already has a lot more fans just because of FCS and our success.
As for Wyoming, they live in a state with one university. Better boosters club + more state money + more student money + much better endowment. Interesting that I tried to find their breakdown like NDSU has on their website and cannot find a link where it shows how much money each student puts into athletics.


At the end of the day nothing matters, because NDSU won't be allowed to go higher than FCS due to the State Higher board of Education. NDSU and UND MUST be on equal grounds as far as the HBOE is concerned. The main reason we were allowed to go FCS was because we don't have DI hockey and UND does, so we stated we wanted to get our main sport up to DI competition.

If we have to wait on UND being able to go FBS, we are pretty much never going to be allowed to move up, as far as the SBOE is concerned.

[BisonFan02]

At the end of the day nothing matters, because NDSU won't be allowed to go higher than FCS due to the State Higher board of Education. NDSU and UND MUST be on equal grounds as far as the HBOE is concerned. The main reason we were allowed to go FCS was because we don't have DI hockey and UND does, so we stated we wanted to get our main sport up to DI competition.

If we have to wait on UND being able to go FBS, we are pretty much never going to be allowed to move up, as far as the SBOE is concerned.

but but but...they still have hockey at the "highest level" and NDSU doesn't! :D That's not fair!!?!?!

[NoDak 4 Ever]

but but but...they still have hockey at the "highest level" and NDSU doesn't! :D That's not fair!!?!?!

They're really in love with that meme, aren't they? Do they know that there's only 59 teams? How is that even at all important?

[Bisonator]

At the end of the day nothing matters, because NDSU won't be allowed to go higher than FCS due to the State Higher board of Education. NDSU and UND MUST be on equal grounds as far as the HBOE is concerned. The main reason we were allowed to go FCS was because we don't have DI hockey and UND does, so we stated we wanted to get our main sport up to DI competition.

If we have to wait on UND being able to go FBS, we are pretty much never going to be allowed to move up, as far as the SBOE is concerned.

Absolutely false. I don't know where you got this idea from but there is no truth to it. The SBOHE has nothing to do with it.

[BisonFan02]

They're really in love with that meme, aren't they? Do they know that there's only 59 teams? How is that even at all important?

I was watching some world junior hockey today (US vs. Canada) and they keep showing ads for college hockey with 30% of the NHL having come from there....at the same time, I had a "sad trombone" theme in my head.

[Twentysix]

At the end of the day nothing matters, because NDSU won't be allowed to go higher than FCS due to the State Higher board of Education. NDSU and UND MUST be on equal grounds as far as the HBOE is concerned. The main reason we were allowed to go FCS was because we don't have DI hockey and UND does, so we stated we wanted to get our main sport up to DI competition.

If we have to wait on UND being able to go FBS, we are pretty much never going to be allowed to move up, as far as the SBOE is concerned.

I don't see how the SBOHE can influence our athletic departments classification directly.

I think you may be slightly over empowering them.

[IBleedYellow]

Absolutely false. I don't know where you got this idea from but there is no truth to it. The SBOHE has nothing to do with it.

Do you really think they will let NDSU do something without UND getting the same type of funding *FROM THE STATE*? Hell no.

It will all have to be private donations, and then we'll still have to convince them to let us move up.

[BisonBacker]

They're really in love with that meme, aren't they? Do they know that there's only 59 teams? How is that even at all important?

To the mainstream sports fan ie. virtually 100% of the US it's not. There is a reason you don't see it on any major networks. The viewership is very low and advertising support is even lower. Advertisers go where the money is and it isn't in hockey.

[BisonBacker]

Do you really think they will let NDSU do something without UND getting the same type of funding *FROM THE STATE*? Hell no.

It will all have to be private donations, and then we'll still have to convince them to let us move up.

^^^^100% spot on^^^^

[centennial]

Do you really think they will let NDSU do something without UND getting the same type of funding *FROM THE STATE*? Hell no.

It will all have to be private donations, and then we'll still have to convince them to let us move up.
UND will never move up and the state will never give us more money, its the opposite. I don't know how we can get more money unless it comes from the students and donors, we are stuck in FCS indefinitely.

[NDSUSR]

UND will never move up and the state will never give us more money, its the opposite. I don't know how we can get more money unless it comes from the students and donors, we are stuck in FCS indefinitely.

Which is fine, because its where NDSU belongs.

[darell1976]

UND will never move up and the state will never give us more money, its the opposite. I don't know how we can get more money unless it comes from the students and donors, we are stuck in FCS indefinitely.

In today's FBS no, in a second tier FBS, maybe.

[SDFS]

Do you really think they will let NDSU do something without UND getting the same type of funding *FROM THE STATE*? Hell no.

It will all have to be private donations, and then we'll still have to convince them to let us move up.
I don't think the State of North Dakota would directly fund NDSU or UND moving to FBS. I don't think the State of North Dakota would stop either program from moving to FBS is they wanted. The move to FBS would need to be funded by the students (fees) and private support.

[SDFS]

At the end of the day nothing matters, because NDSU won't be allowed to go higher than FCS due to the State Higher board of Education. NDSU and UND MUST be on equal grounds as far as the HBOE is concerned. The main reason we were allowed to go FCS was because we don't have DI hockey and UND does, so we stated we wanted to get our main sport up to DI competition.

If we have to wait on UND being able to go FBS, we are pretty much never going to be allowed to move up, as far as the SBOE is concerned.

First time I have heard this, I thought that moving to FCS was strictly NDSU choice. I didn't know that SBOE had much say.

NOTE: Sorry, I didn't see that two other posters questioned this also..

[SDFS]

I was watching some world junior hockey today (US vs. Canada) and they keep showing ads for college hockey with 30% of the NHL having come from there....at the same time, I had a "sad trombone" theme in my head.

Bison fans talking hockey got to love it.. but 1/3 coming from College is pretty good considering the international flavor of the NHL. NOTE: 9 former/current UND players in the Olympics this year. I will be looking forward to a couple of UND grads centering the top lines for the two best teams. Toews (Canada) and Parise (USA).

[darell1976]

Bison fans talking hockey got to love it.. but 1/3 coming from College is pretty good considering the international flavor of the NHL. NOTE: 9 former/current UND players in the Olympics this year. I will be looking forward to a couple of UND grads centering the top lines for the two best teams. Toews (Canada) and Parise (USA).

And then you have the Lamaroux sisters from Grand Forks (UND) playing for team USA.

[Wilson16]

They're really in love with that meme, aren't they? Do they know that there's only 59 teams? How is that even at all important?
It's the highest level .... Duh. Like Wrestling, Lacrosse, gymnastics, swimming don't have the same thing. :)

[clenz]

another thing is that while montana, montana state, delaware and the dakota schools are the primary go-to colleges of those states, the rest of the fcs schools are not. the rest of the fcs schools share markets, and many times alumni, with much of the fbs schools. in the case of the much of the fcs, you are talking smaller enrollment directional schools or private schools. couple that with private schools who have a percentage of the alumni that these schools have, scattered over wider area. then couple that with the fact that many of these programs are in states where people are splitting their time and money between going to games of that school, nhl, nba, nfl or any number of other local entertainment activities.

in other words, it is easy to tout ndsu as the best in fan support. they are definitely up there. but, they are really the only game in the state too.
This really can't be overlooked.

Montana is 4 hours from it's closest FBS schools - Idaho and Washington State, 6.5 hours from Utah State7 hours from Boise State, 7 hours from Washington, 7 hours from Utah, 8 hours from BYU. Those are the only schools with less than a 10 hour drive according to Google maps

Montana State is 6 hours from Utah State, 7 hours from Utah, Washington State, Boise State and Idaho, 8 hours from BYU, 8.5 hours from Wyoming, 10 hours from Washington...

NDSU is 4 hours from Minnesota (UNI is closer to Minneapolis than NDSU), just under 7 hours to Nebraska, 7 hours to Iowa State, 8 hours from Wisconsin, Iowa, 8.5-9 hours to Kansas and Kansas State. Also, keep in mind just a couple years ago NDSU was drawing 30-40% less than they are now. Amazing what a couple titles/deep playoff runs can do for drawing fans.



They are the "FBS" schools of their areas. The population base is smaller but there is very little, to almost no, competition for the fan base.

App State is the real anomaly of the FCS. They are surrounded by FBS (and FCS) schools and still drew really well. Now, any school that wins 3 straight titles and beats a top 5 school is going to draw really well. However, I think their attendance prior to 05 and the last 2 years or so has struggled some.


UD drew real well when they were winning, but it's well documented the way UD's season ticket holder number has dropped in half (or more, according to some UD fans). There are constant complaints about the # of fans at UD games now.


Look at most other FCS programs and what they fight with for fans. I've used UNI before - and some programs out east have it much worse in terms of teams per capita but it's been said that the east isnt' as football crazy as the midwest.

Within 5-6 hours of UNI - so leaving the house by 5-6AM and getting to an 11AM kick off - UNI has to fight with the following schools in the FBS
Iowa B10- 90 minutes - draws over 70K per game in stadium PLUS tens of thousands to just party in IC - HUGE party town.
Iowa State B12- 90 minutes - draws 50Kish per game - plus thousands more to party
Wisconsin B10- 3 hours - draws over 80k per game in stadium - tens of thousands more to party
Minnesota B10- 3.25 hours - averaged 48k per game in stadium this year - closer than NDSU.
Northern Illinois MAC- 3.5 hours - not a huge draw but pretty damn good the last couple years
Nebraska B10- 4 hours - draws over 80k per game - tens of thousands to party
Northwestern B10 - 4.5 hours - average roughly 40-45k per game
Missouri SEC - 5 hours - averaged 64k per game - SEC title game participate and rated in the top 5 at one point.
Kansas B12 - 5 hours - averaged 37k per game
Illinois B10 - 5 hours - averaged 44k per game
Kansas State B12 - 6 hours - averaged 53k per game
Notre Dame INDY - 6 hours - averaged 81k per game - one of the biggest draws in all of college football
Purdue - B10 - 6 hours - averaged pretty ****ty

That's quite the list of teams to fight with.

If you expand it to 10 hours, like I did with the others, you get to
Michigan, Ball State, Western Michigan, Eastern Michigan, Indiana, Louisville, Cincinnati, Toledo, Ohio State, Bowling Green, Michigan State, Western Kentucky, Oklahoma State, Tulsa, Oklahoma, Memphis, Arkansas, Vanderbilt, Kentucky, Kent State, Akron, couple that with the state of Iowa having 33-35 football programs on it's own and then all of the FCS programs that fall within that same region.




UNI draws really well when UNI is good - as does any school. However, having to fight with Iowa, Iowa State, Nebraska, and Wisconsin makes it damn near impossible to draw "great" in any average season.


I'm well on record as hating how fickle the UNI fan base is, for every sport. But it's extremely hard to compare support of Montana, Montana State, NDSU (and honestly it should be UND as well but they clearly will be below average in the major sports for quite some time) to a vast majority of the FCS.

Having said all of that I'm extremely jealous that NDSU, Montana, and Montana State draw like they do.

[MplsBison]

I don't think the State of North Dakota would directly fund NDSU or UND moving to FBS. I don't think the State of North Dakota would stop either program from moving to FBS is they wanted. The move to FBS would need to be funded by the students (fees) and private support.

Correct -- so in other words, it would be funded by student fees.

The students would have to vote if they want to pay to have nice things, basically is what it comes down to. If they vote yes, then that's that.

[BISON Thunder]

This really can't be overlooked.

Montana is 4 hours from it's closest FBS schools - Idaho and Washington State, 6.5 hours from Utah State7 hours from Boise State, 7 hours from Washington, 7 hours from Utah, 8 hours from BYU. Those are the only schools with less than a 10 hour drive according to Google maps

Montana State is 6 hours from Utah State, 7 hours from Utah, Washington State, Boise State and Idaho, 8 hours from BYU, 8.5 hours from Wyoming, 10 hours from Washington...

NDSU is 4 hours from Minnesota (UNI is closer to Minneapolis than NDSU), just under 7 hours to Nebraska, 7 hours to Iowa State, 8 hours from Wisconsin, Iowa, 8.5-9 hours to Kansas and Kansas State. Also, keep in mind just a couple years ago NDSU was drawing 30-40% less than they are now. Amazing what a couple titles/deep playoff runs can do for drawing fans.



They are the "FBS" schools of their areas. The population base is smaller but there is very little, to almost no, competition for the fan base.

App State is the real anomaly of the FCS. They are surrounded by FBS (and FCS) schools and still drew really well. Now, any school that wins 3 straight titles and beats a top 5 school is going to draw really well. However, I think their attendance prior to 05 and the last 2 years or so has struggled some.


UD drew real well when they were winning, but it's well documented the way UD's season ticket holder number has dropped in half (or more, according to some UD fans). There are constant complaints about the # of fans at UD games now.


Look at most other FCS programs and what they fight with for fans. I've used UNI before - and some programs out east have it much worse in terms of teams per capita but it's been said that the east isnt' as football crazy as the midwest.

Within 5-6 hours of UNI - so leaving the house by 5-6AM and getting to an 11AM kick off - UNI has to fight with the following schools in the FBS
Iowa B10- 90 minutes - draws over 70K per game in stadium PLUS tens of thousands to just party in IC - HUGE party town.
Iowa State B12- 90 minutes - draws 50Kish per game - plus thousands more to party
Wisconsin B10- 3 hours - draws over 80k per game in stadium - tens of thousands more to party
Minnesota B10- 3.25 hours - averaged 48k per game in stadium this year - closer than NDSU.
Northern Illinois MAC- 3.5 hours - not a huge draw but pretty damn good the last couple years
Nebraska B10- 4 hours - draws over 80k per game - tens of thousands to party
Northwestern B10 - 4.5 hours - average roughly 40-45k per game
Missouri SEC - 5 hours - averaged 64k per game - SEC title game participate and rated in the top 5 at one point.
Kansas B12 - 5 hours - averaged 37k per game
Illinois B10 - 5 hours - averaged 44k per game
Kansas State B12 - 6 hours - averaged 53k per game
Notre Dame INDY - 6 hours - averaged 81k per game - one of the biggest draws in all of college football
Purdue - B10 - 6 hours - averaged pretty ****ty

That's quite the list of teams to fight with.

If you expand it to 10 hours, like I did with the others, you get to
Michigan, Ball State, Western Michigan, Eastern Michigan, Indiana, Louisville, Cincinnati, Toledo, Ohio State, Bowling Green, Michigan State, Western Kentucky, Oklahoma State, Tulsa, Oklahoma, Memphis, Arkansas, Vanderbilt, Kentucky, Kent State, Akron, couple that with the state of Iowa having 33-35 football programs on it's own and then all of the FCS programs that fall within that same region.




UNI draws really well when UNI is good - as does any school. However, having to fight with Iowa, Iowa State, Nebraska, and Wisconsin makes it damn near impossible to draw "great" in any average season.


I'm well on record as hating how fickle the UNI fan base is, for every sport. But it's extremely hard to compare support of Montana, Montana State, NDSU (and honestly it should be UND as well but they clearly will be below average in the major sports for quite some time) to a vast majority of the FCS.

Having said all of that I'm extremely jealous that NDSU, Montana, and Montana State draw like they do.

Now add total population next to the distances/hours of the schools cited, and we have total relevancy.

[Gil Dobie]

Now add total population next to the distances/hours of the schools cited, and we have total relevancy.

My parents, who live in Fargo, for $65 could fly from Fargo to many FBS sites. It cost me more to drive the 3.5 hours from the Twin Cites to Fargo and back for a Bison game.

[MplsBison]

First time I have heard this, I thought that moving to FCS was strictly NDSU choice. I didn't know that SBOE had much say.

NOTE: Sorry, I didn't see that two other posters questioned this also..

The SBOHE either has zero say in it or wouldn't block it, if funded privately or with student fees.

NDSU wouldn't approach the state asking for state money to support a move to FBS in the first place. That would be utterly ridiculous. But as far as "permission", there is no such thing.

All it really amounts to is NDSU changing conferences just for football, from the MVFC to say, the MAC. They're already separately in the Summit for the rest of DI sports.

The SBOHE wouldn't have any say in NDSU moving from the MVFC to the Big Sky, either. And so on.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Ok, the move talk has taken over I see but I'd be interested to see what the final total for this is at? I had seen somewhere that this may be sold out at over 10K? That's excellent but would like some confirmation as it would be a nice bit to throw in the show this week.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Ok, the move talk has taken over I see but I'd be interested to see what the final total for this is at? I had seen somewhere that this may be sold out at over 10K? That's excellent but would like some confirmation as it would be a nice bit to throw in the show this week.

about all we know now is that they sold 10k tickets and they are going hot on the secondary market right now (weirdest thing I've ever seen). Even when I'm there, I'll have no idea how many people there are. The concourse was jammed last year.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

about all we know now is that they sold 10k tickets and they are going hot on the secondary market right now (weirdest thing I've ever seen). Even when I'm there, I'll have no idea how many people there are. The concourse was jammed last year.

Cool, I thought someone had posted a link to a site/story that it had topped 10K but wanted to verify and mention the source for the info. as well so if anyone has it please let it be known.

[Bisonator]

Cool, I thought someone had posted a link to a site/story that it had topped 10K but wanted to verify and mention the source for the info. as well so if anyone has it please let it be known.

Here is the Forum link: http://www.inforum.com/event/article/id/422432/

I thought there was a story on GoBison.com too.

Here is the link to the Alumni site: http://www.ndsualumni.com/netcommunity/championshipevents

[Bisonoline]

Cool, I thought someone had posted a link to a site/story that it had topped 10K but wanted to verify and mention the source for the info. as well so if anyone has it please let it be known.

All of the suites are sold out. 16 person suite is something like 1000.00

[Bisonoline]

Cool, I thought someone had posted a link to a site/story that it had topped 10K but wanted to verify and mention the source for the info. as well so if anyone has it please let it be known.

All of the suites are sold out. 16 person suite is something like 1000.00. The venue is sold out. People scrambling to find tickets. They have a section just for former players and will introduce them during the fest. Big fireworks display etc. Its like nothing I have ever seen or been involved in.

[caribbeanhen]

All of the suites are sold out. 16 person suite is something like 1000.00

last one out of Fargo please turn out the lights, skeleton crew staying behind?

[Professor Chaos]

The herd migration is well underway (screen cap from the Bison Tracker app that tracks fans signed into the app).

http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/8710/qm2e.jpg

[caribbeanhen]

the Bison Tracker app looks pretty cool....

I would like to compare it with the TigerTracker