Lets Talk Seeding...

[FargoBison]

My thoughts....

1. NDSU
2. EIU
3. EWU
4. SELA
5. Towson
6. McNeese St
7. Maine
8. NAU

Also considered:
Fordham
Montana

I keep going back and forth with Fordham and NAU. But NAU beat a 10-2 FCS team, I think that has to be accounted for. I do think Fordham has some nice wins but they don't look so great on paper.

I am pretty firm on the first five. The bottom three could really go in any order.

[youwouldno]

I think there are only 9 real seed contenders - all the ones you list except Montana. I don't see how they could displace Northern Arizona, and if McNeese or Maine didn't get one then I think Fordham would.

[FargoBison]

I think there are only 9 real seed contenders - all the ones you list except Montana. I don't see how they could displace Northern Arizona, and if McNeese or Maine didn't get one then I think Fordham would.

I noticed Sports Network had Montana seeded...only reason I threw them in there. I don't think they are deserving considering NAU thumped them, no way the Big Sky gets three seeds.

[rokamortis]

I think those are all good, common sense selections but the committee always seems to mix things up a bit so we'll see.

[furpal87]

I sometimes get a little cynical about these committees, but Montana as an 8 would mean $$$$ + a quarterfinal game against NDSU would definitely be the game they would televise. I think they would definitely be in the 8 bracket.

[Red & Black]

My thoughts....

1. NDSU
2. EIU
3. EWU
4. SELA
5. Towson
6. McNeese St
7. Maine
8. NAU

Also considered:
Fordham
Montana

I keep going back and forth with Fordham and NAU. But NAU beat a 10-2 FCS team, I think that has to be accounted for. I do think Fordham has some nice wins but they don't look so great on paper.

I am pretty firm on the first five. The bottom three could really go in any order.

Concur.


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[SeattleGriz]

I noticed Sports Network had Montana seeded...only reason I threw them in there. I don't think they are deserving considering NAU thumped them, no way the Big Sky gets three seeds.

Did you even watch the NAU game?

[FargoBison]

I sometimes get a little cynical about these committees, but Montana as an 8 would mean $$$$ + a quarterfinal game against NDSU would definitely be the game they would televise. I think they would definitely be in the 8 bracket.

There is that but Montana would also be a huge first round gate for the NCAA.

That loss to NAU really makes it difficult to justify seeding them over the Lumberjacks. I mean if it was close it would open the door but they were crushed.

Plus their only other good win is at Montana State...a team that finished the season in a free fall.

[youwouldno]

I sometimes get a little cynical about these committees, but Montana as an 8 would mean $$$$ + a quarterfinal game against NDSU would definitely be the game they would televise. I think they would definitely be in the 8 bracket.

The committee can accomplish basically this same thing by not seeding Montana, and instead having them play South Dakota St. in the first round with the winner going to NDSU.

[Penguin Nation]

NAU has a stronger SOS with a multitude of Big Sky wins. Fordham has multiple 2 point wins over weak foes and a loss to Lafayette that minimize the win over a fourth place CAA team or a one point win over 1-10 Temple (who even previously winless U Conn beat).

Fordham getting a first round bye over any of the teams listed 1-8 would be difficult to justify.

[FargoBison]

The committee can accomplish basically this same thing by not seeding Montana, and instead having them play South Dakota St. in the first round with the winner going to NDSU.

The winner of that game should go to EWU and not NDSU.

Montana would be the host team and likely winner....it is a bus trip to Cheney and a flight to Fargo.

[TSU86]

It'll be interesting to see if Towson leapfrogs Maine

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Did you even watch the NAU game?

I think he's referring to the game between us and NAU and the fact that if it's between us and NAU for that spot then NAU definitely has a leg up on us in that regard because they did flat out kick our ass in that one.

We've done some little things in the last few weeks that make us a lot better team than the one from the first month but it is what it is and all.

[hebmskebm]

I think the last seed comes down to McNeese vs. Fordham. They're very close. I personally think Fordham edges them for the 8 seed.

1. NDSU
2. EIU
3. EWU
4. SELA
5. Maine
6. Towson
7. NAU
8. Fordham

[youwouldno]

The winner of that game should go to EWU and not NDSU.

Montana would be the host team and likely winner....it is a bus trip to Cheney and a flight to Fargo.

I don't think the committee would assume a Montana victory. But they could put someone else against Montana and then send someone weak to South Dakota St.

[FargoBison]

I don't think the committee would assume a Montana victory. But they could put someone else against Montana and then send someone weak to South Dakota St.

That is true, I'm just saying the committee does try to predict who will likely win in trying to determine where the winner will go in round 2.

If SDSU hosts say Butler you can pencil them in for a game in Fargo in round 2.

[Stick]

My thoughts....

1. NDSU
2. EIU
3. EWU
4. SELA
5. Towson
6. McNeese St
7. Maine
8. NAU

Also considered:
Fordham
Montana

I keep going back and forth with Fordham and NAU. But NAU beat a 10-2 FCS team, I think that has to be accounted for. I do think Fordham has some nice wins but they don't look so great on paper.

I am pretty firm on the first five. The bottom three could really go in any order.

I agree that these are the 10 main teams under consideration. Nicely done.

One thing that the committee may consider is that Fordham's star QB, Nebrich, was hurt against Bucknell and did not play in their only loss vs Lafayette. He played today and looked healthy vs Colgate. If the committee considers this then they may give the Rams a bye. If not, and they take the Lafayette loss as just a regular loss, then I think either NAU or Montana gets the final bye. In that case I think I lean towards Montana. They lost the heads up game vs NAU, but you have to consider the entire schedule. Montana won @Montana St, which NAU did not do. NAU also avoided playing EWU. It's going to be a close call either way.

It's also possible that McNeese doesn't get a bye. Their results look less impressive each week - the SHSU win was more impressive a month ago.

[sharkeycox]

I agree that these are the 10 main teams under consideration. Nicely done.

One thing that the committee may consider is that Fordham's star QB, Nebrich, was hurt against Bucknell and did not play in their only loss vs Lafayette. He played today and looked healthy vs Colgate. If the committee considers this then they may give the Rams a bye. If not, and they take the Lafayette loss as just a regular loss, then I think either NAU or Montana gets the final bye. In that case I think I lean towards Montana. They lost the heads up game vs NAU, but you have to consider the entire schedule. Montana won @Montana St, which NAU did not do. NAU also avoided playing EWU. It's going to be a close call either way.

It's also possible that McNeese doesn't get a bye. Their results look less impressive each week - the SHSU win was more impressive a month ago.

I still can not figure out how McNeese won 10 games this year.

[ElCid]

There is that but Montana would also be a huge first round gate for the NCAA.

That loss to NAU really makes it difficult to justify seeding them over the Lumberjacks. I mean if it was close it would open the door but they were crushed.

Plus their only other good win is at Montana State...a team that finished the season in a free fall.

Wait, just to play devil's advocate…Montana 10-2 was beat by NAU 9-2, ok, Montana had 1 sustantial win, over Montana St., ok, then how do you square NAU getting throttled by Montana State. Ok it was earlier, but still does not look good at all. And as I look through NAUs games, they were not all that impressive. Good record, got the Ws, but not overpowering. Except for the head to head, their is not much difference and while Montana lost to EWU in a close one, NAU did not even play them. Tough call.

[RabidRabbit]

Fordham's higher quality wins are over a poor MAC team, Temple and over 'Nova & Lehigh. Lost to the sub-500 Patriot AQ, Lafayette.

McNeese's higher quality wins are over AAFC (football Big East) USF (nice blow-out win), SHSU & UCA. Lost to a very good (at the time) UNI, and to seed, and SLC AQ Southeastern LA.

Given those qualifications, I'd select McNeese first.

Being over on the east coast, keeping track, and watching Big Sky games has been a low priority, so I'll defer to the Big Sky members on the merits for NAU and Montana to be seeds.

[thebootfitter]

I wouldn't be surprised to see SLU seeded over EWU after this week's games.

Also... What Fordham has going for it is an 11-1 record. Look at Lehigh two years ago. Doesn't necessarily matter whether they are one of the top 8 teams.

[FargoBison]

Wait, just to play devil's advocate…Montana 10-2 was beat by NAU 10-2, ok, Montana had 1 sustantial win, over Montana St., ok, then how do you square NAU getting throttled by Montana State. Ok it was earlier, but still does not look good at all. And as I look through NAUs games, they were not all that impressive. Good record, got the Ws, but not overpowering. Except for the head to head, their is not much difference and while Montana lost to EWU in a close one, NAU did not even play them. Tough call.

NAU has only one FCS loss though. Plus they have a decent road win over SUU who just beat MSU last week.

Montana has two FCS losses. Didn't play an FBS and their best win is over a 7-5 team. I just don't see it.

[Red & Black]

I wouldn't be surprised to see SLU seeded over EWU after this week's games.

Also... What Fordham has going for it is an 11-1 record. Look at Lehigh two years ago. Doesn't necessarily matter whether they are one of the top 8 teams.

I would be surprised if that happened to be honest. EWU has a win over a Pac-12 school. SELA doesn't have an FBS win that I can recall.

Also, MOV isn't factored in - only W/L.


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[Bison Fan in NW MN]

My 2 $:


#1: NDSU
#2: EIU
#3: EWU
#4: SELU
#5: Towson
#6: McNeese
#7: NAU
#8: Maine

[BisonFan02]

Proseed? :D

[Sycamore62]

Sometimes I think we spend more time on this 1 thread than the entire committee spends setting up the bracket.

[ace93]

When it comes to Fordham, it will all depend on whether the committee factors in the lack of Nebrich against Lafayette. The week prior to Fordham, Lafayette lost to Colgate at home. Two weeks later Fordham takes that same Colgate team to the woodshed. Lafayette does the same to Lehigh. Not sure what to make of it, but it factors in possibly in some way. Had McNeese lost this would be easier to figure out.

[ElCid]

NAU has only one FCS loss though. Plus they have a decent road win over SUU who just beat MSU last week.

Montana has two FCS losses. Didn't play an FBS and their best win is over a 7-5 team. I just don't see it.

No you are right, these are all good points. I just see Montana's results in their wins, just a little better than NAU's. Especially some of their common opponents, where Montana had away games and NAU had home. That road win was a good one for NAU. It is a close call.

[hebmskebm]

Fordham's higher quality wins are over a poor MAC team, Temple and over 'Nova & Lehigh. Lost to the sub-500 Patriot AQ, Lafayette.

McNeese's higher quality wins are over AAFC (football Big East) USF (nice blow-out win), SHSU & UCA. Lost to a very good (at the time) UNI, and to seed, and SLC AQ Southeastern LA.

Given those qualifications, I'd select McNeese first.

Being over on the east coast, keeping track, and watching Big Sky games has been a low priority, so I'll defer to the Big Sky members on the merits for NAU and Montana to be seeds.

FYI Temple is in the AAC, same as USF. McNeese also almost lost to a DII school and had 9 D1 wins to Fordham's 11. Not trying to knock McNeese, I just think Fordham has a slightly better profile.

[ElCid]

When it comes to Fordham, it will all depend on whether the committee factors in the lack of Nebrich against Lafayette. The week prior to Fordham, Lafayette lost to Colgate at home. Two weeks later Fordham takes that same Colgate team to the woodshed. Lafayette does the same to Lehigh. Not sure what to make of it, but it factors in possibly in some way. Had McNeese lost this would be easier to figure out.

Why should it matter? Injuries are part of the game. Don't have the depth to recover? That should absolutely be part of any rankings or seeding. I still think Fordham is a good team. How many teams have crapped the bed at least once this year? I would have to take of shoes to count.

[Bisonwinagn]

Why should it matter? Injuries are part of the game. Don't have the depth to recover? That should absolutely be part of any rankings or seeding. I still think Fordham is a good team. How many teams have crapped the bed at least once this year? I would have to take of shoes to count.

Agreed if you factor injuries in then UNI should be a top 4 seed. Everyone has injuries.

[Sycamore62]

Agreed if you factor injuries in then UNI should be a top 4 seed. Everyone has injuries.

My Sycamores would be a 1 or 2 seed.

we played the 4th qtr today with a receiver playing QB today. I think we had more starters watching than we did playing.

[Stick]

Agreed if you factor injuries in then UNI should be a top 4 seed. Everyone has injuries.

It's much easier to factor it in when it's the star QB, for 1 game, and the team is 11-0 with him and 0-1 without him. And he is now healthy.

[Mr. C]

I would be surprised if that happened to be honest. EWU has a win over a Pac-12 school. SELA doesn't have an FBS win that I can recall.

Also, MOV isn't factored in - only W/L.


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You seem to be building your entire seeding argument on that Oregon State win the first week of the season. How about the fact that SLU destroyed an SHSU team that dominated EWU a few weeks earlier?

[NoDak 4 Ever]

You seem to be building your entire seeding argument on that Oregon State win the first week of the season. How about the fact that SLU destroyed an SHSU team that dominated EWU a few weeks earlier?

But that Oregon State team was #25! Of course, they have no quality wins all season but they were #25!

[Red & Black]

You seem to be building your entire seeding argument on that Oregon State win the first week of the season. How about the fact that SLU destroyed an SHSU team that dominated EWU a few weeks earlier?

My entire argument? Not at all, but when you are talking about 2 teams with the same record, and one has a win over a BCS team - that could be enough justification to place team X over team Y. Is that a strange argument?

And most of those types of games are played very early in the season (see NDSU), so I'm not really sure what your point was with that.

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[Go Lehigh TU owl]

But that Oregon State team was #25! Of course, they have no quality wins all season but they were #25!

Oregon State is in the process of losing their 4 game in a row right now (watching the UW game). It's a good win for EWU but I'm not sure how earth shattering it is. EIU's dominance over a KSU/OSU'esque San Diego State might be the most impressive FBS win of the year. Their near upset of NIU might be even MORE impressive than the Panthers win over SDSU.

Still, EWU has a very good resume imo....

[Squealofthepig]

How about the fact that SLU destroyed an SHSU team that dominated EWU a few weeks earlier?

I don't disagree with you, but you know the whole transitive property in football.

Mine, fwiw, would be:

1. NDSU
2. EIU
3. SELA
4. EWU
5. Towson
6. Maine
7. McNeese
8. NAU

This is based on some poor performances today by EWU and McNeese (relatively speaking). I could live with Fordham being a seed; and I also don't think the Griz have a good enough record to justify a seed (two losses to other tourney teams; best win still will be sitting at home in the playoffs).

[ElCid]

You seem to be building your entire seeding argument on that Oregon State win the first week of the season. How about the fact that SLU destroyed an SHSU team that dominated EWU a few weeks earlier?

I was thinking the same exact thing. It was a good win, but there was bad out there as well.

[Red & Black]

But that Oregon State team was #25! Of course, they have no quality wins all season but they were #25!

If our win over Oregon State means nothing, then neither does your win against KSU. The Pac-12 North is #2 behind SEC West this season. KSU isn't exactly a very good team.


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[Mr. C]

My entire argument? Not at all, but when you are talking about 2 teams with the same record, and one has a win over a BCS team - that could be enough justification to place team X over team Y. Is that a strange argument?

And most of those types of games are played very early in the season (see NDSU), so I'm not really sure what your point was with that.

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Oregon State was obviously not the 25th best team in the country and a win in week one doesn't tell all that much about the same team in week 13. Southeastern Louisiana crushed Sam Houston State, a team that thumped Eastern Washington pretty good. When you compare teams from different conferences, common opponents are going to come into play in seeding.

[FargoBison]

Wins over K-State and Oregon State both mean a ton...don't let anyone try to tell you otherwise.

EIU's win over SDSU is also big.

Those wins are why they are the top 3 seeds.

[Squealofthepig]

...Oregon State ... KSU. The Pac-12 North is #2 behind SEC West this season.

So, you know college football, then? And which team belongs to which conference, yes?

[Mr. C]

Why are so many people seeding Towson ahead of Maine when Maine won the CAA auto bid and had a better, more consistent season?

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Oregon State is in the process of losing their 4 game in a row right now (watching the UW game). It's a good win for EWU but I'm not sure how earth shattering it is. EIU's dominance over a KSU/OSU'esque San Diego State might be the most impressive FBS win of the year. Their near upset of NIU might be even MORE impressive than the Panthers win over SDSU.

Still, EWU has a very good resume imo....

SDSU is one of OSU's NOT quality wins. SDSU had to rattle off 3 wins against losing teams, San Jose State at 5-6 being the best of them, just to get their 6-4 conference record.

Northern Illinois is a good team, you have that part right.

[Red & Black]

Oregon State was obviously not the 25th best team in the country and a win in week one doesn't tell all that much about the same team in week 13. Southeastern Louisiana crushed Sam Houston State, a team that thumped Eastern Washington pretty good. When you compare teams from different conferences, common opponents are going to come into play in seeding.

Not saying that common opponents won't factor in. But the transitive properties only go so far. OSU was a good win, not sure why you're trying to dismiss it.


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[Squealofthepig]

Why are so many people seeding Towson ahead of Maine when Maine won the CAA auto bid and had a better, more consistent season?

I'm guessing what the committee will do, and the committee will see that win against an FBS team, even if that FBS team is UConn't.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

SDSU is one of OSU's NOT quality wins. SDSU had to rattle off 3 wins against losing teams, San Jose State at 5-6 being the best of them, just to get their 6-4 conference record.

Northern Illinois is a good team, you have that part right.

EIU beat SDSU 40-19, that's darn impressive considering that SDSU will be a bowl team. The Aztecs might not be world beaters but they did take Fresno State to OT, lost a close game @ Oregon State and are currently beating Boise State. They're at the very worst, decent, ala Kansas State and Oregon State. The win itself might not impress you, but the margin of victory should.....

How is SDSU not one of Oregon State's quality win(s)? It's the only team the Beavers beat that has a winning record.

[Red & Black]

So, you know college football, then? And which team belongs to which conference, yes?

Yes. Is that a good enough response to your condescending question?


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[Squealofthepig]

Yes. Is that a good enough response to your condescending question?


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Kansas State isn't in the SEC, then. Just as an FYI as one football fan to another.

[lionsrking2]

My entire argument? Not at all, but when you are talking about 2 teams with the same record, and one has a win over a BCS team - that could be enough justification to place team X over team Y. Is that a strange argument?

And most of those types of games are played very early in the season (see NDSU), so I'm not really sure what your point was with that.

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I really don't care if we're 3 or 4, but our resume is every bit as good as Eastern Washington ... if Sam Houston makes it, we'll have a 3-1 record vs teams in the playoff field, with our only loss being at SDSU in a game we pretty much dominated ... we beat Samford on the road without Bryan Bennett ... we have a two TD win over a team that beat Eastern Washington by two TDs ... ... we won three straight games late in the year vs ranked opponents, including two on the road, and two who were ranked 4th at the time we beat them ... we won a better league by an average margin of 25 points ... EWU average margin in the Big Sky is 16.5 points.

[tomq04]

Any chance Maine got knocked out of the top 8 today? Montana and NAU getting #7/8 ?

[Red & Black]

Kansas State isn't in the SEC, then. Just as an FYI as one football fan to another.

Nor was I claiming that they are. I was speaking to the relative strength of conferences as it pertains to Oregon State. They are in the Pac-12 North, which is the second best conference (behind the SEC West). I was not claiming that KSU is in the SEC.

Hope that clears things up.


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[NoDak 4 Ever]

EIU beat SDSU 40-19, that's darn impressive considering that SDSU will be a bowl team. The Aztecs might not be world beaters but they did take Fresno State to OT, lost a close game @ Oregon State and are currently beating Boise State. They're at the very worst, decent, ala Kansas State and Oregon State. The win itself might not impress you, but the margin of victory should.....

How is SDSU not one of Oregon State's quality win(s)? It's the only team the Beavers beat that has a winning record.

SDSU has 0 wins against teams with a winning record.

[ElCid]

If our win over Oregon State means nothing, then neither does your win against KSU. The Pac-12 North is #2 behind SEC West this season. KSU isn't exactly a very good team.


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I still think it was a great win. It was a BCS team, who still has a winning record. But I was debating myself how to compare SELA and EWU. I think the FBS win tips it slightly in EWU favor but the loss to SHSU made me hesitate, even though it was on the road. Today's game did not help, even though it ended in a W. SELA had a good game against TCU but lost and lost a close one at SD St. Computer rating and SOS are very close. It is a tough call.

[Red & Black]

I really don't care if we're 3 or 4, but our resume is every bit as good as Eastern Washington ... if Sam Houston makes it, we'll have a 3-1 record vs teams in the playoff field, with our only loss being at SDSU in a game we pretty much dominated ... we beat Samford on the road without Bryan Bennett ... we have a two TD win over a team that beat Eastern Washington by two TDs ... ... we won three straight games late in the year vs ranked opponents, including two on the road, and two who were ranked 4th at the time we beat them ... we won a better league by an average margin of 25 points ... EWU average margin in the Big Sky is 16.5 points.

I thought you also lost to TCU? I guess if that doesn't count, then neither does our loss to Toledo.


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[Go Lehigh TU owl]

SDSU has 0 wins against teams with a winning record.

That could change in about 60 minutes. Either way, it's still an impressive win for EIU.....

[Red & Black]

I still think it was a great win. It was a BCS team, who still has a winning record. But I was debating myself how to compare SELA and EWU. I think the FBS win tips it slightly in EWU favor but the loss to SHSU made me hesitate, even though it was on the road. Today's game did not help, even though it ended in a W. SELA had a good game against TCU but lost and lost a close one at SD St. Computer rating and SOS are very close. It is a tough call.

Good post, and I agree for the most part. According to the NCAA, MOV isn't considered, although I am not sure if that will strike true or not.


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[Sycamore62]

That could change in about 60 minutes. Either way, it's still an impressive win for EIU.....

Probably the only impressive win.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Probably the only impressive win.

This.

The world is kind of falling all over EIU based on them beating a lot of weak teams.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

This.

The world is kind of falling all over EIU based on them beating a lot of weak teams.

EIU has showed a high level of dominance over those "weak" teams. If they were scraping by I'd understand being a little skeptical. However, based on what I've seen in FCS only NDSU has shown that type of dominance week in, week out.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

EIU has showed a high level of dominance over those "weak" teams. If they were scraping by I'd understand being a little skeptical. However, based on what I've seen in FCS only NDSU has shown that type of dominance week in, week out.

The OVC and MVFC are NOT the same thing.


Get tired of carrying the water for the Patriot now that their champ has an overall losing record?

[lionsrking2]

I thought you also lost to TCU? I guess if that doesn't count, then neither does our loss to Toledo.


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I'm talking about FCS schedule, particularly games against the potential playoff field.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

The OVC and MVFC are NOT the same thing.


Get tired of carrying the water for the Patriot now that their champ has an overall losing record?

They beat two MVFC teams, @ SIU in OT and they crushed Illinois State..

This has nothing to do with the PL. I'm trying to give a team some respect and you want to turn it into a PL/Lehigh rant? whatever xrolleyesx

[youwouldno]

They beat two MVFC teams, @ SIU in OT and they crushed Illinois State..

This has nothing to do with the PL. I'm trying to give a team some respect and you want to turn it into a PL/Lehigh rant? whatever xrolleyesx

There is a contingent here that goes insane when someone suggests EIU is good at all. I don't get it personally. The OVC has a horrible track record in the post-season but none of those teams played like EIU has, crushing a solid mid-major FBS opponent, almost taking down a now 11-0 FBS opponent, and obviously doing well against their FCS opponents.

[McNeese75]

FYI Temple is in the AAC, same as USF. McNeese also almost lost to a DII school and had 9 D1 wins to Fordham's 11. Not trying to knock McNeese, I just think Fordham has a slightly better profile.

That DII school might beat Fordham

[Red & Black]

I'm talking about FCS schedule, particularly games against the potential playoff field.

Ok, fair enough. Although they don't penalize too much for FBS losses, it's still a loss at the end of the day and an important detail if you are trying to justify a higher seed over a team with an identical record.


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[Mr. C]

That DII school might beat Fordham
You are clueless. Has anyone on here actually seen Fordham play?

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

You are clueless. Has anyone on here actually seen Fordham play?

I have several times. They are really good. BUT, people's perception's of leagues and teams on here is so screwed up it's become difficult to have a logical convo......

I have basically zero prejudice when it comes to leagues/teams. That's why I don't fit in anymore...lol. I need more ignorance....

[Squealofthepig]

There is a contingent here that goes insane when someone suggests EIU is good at all. I don't get it personally. The OVC has a horrible track record in the post-season but none of those teams played like EIU has, crushing a solid mid-major FBS opponent, almost taking down a now 11-0 FBS opponent, and obviously doing well against their FCS opponents.

I think it's an example of Lehigh with Lum, by fiat. I agree - and hell, I've really enjoyed Garapolo's play at EIU - but a lot of us have heard the "dominant team in a second-tier conference" argument and watched them generally fail (though Colgate in, what, 01? was a good counter-example).

Let's recenter - do we disagree with the eight all that much, or do we just disagree with where people are seeding specific teams? If I could sum up, I think it would be: NDSU is #1 (I haven't seen anyone really disagree with this), then a combination of EIU, EWU, SELA & McNeese, Towson and Maine. Then we have more controversial teams like Fordham, NAU, and Montana, but that's about it - ten teams, when we mostly agree on the top seven or so? It's not like we have people arguing for Furman as a seed, or even B-C (though the committee seeding them wouldn't completely shock me).

[Mr. C]

I'm guessing what the committee will do, and the committee will see that win against an FBS team, even if that FBS team is UConn't.
Maine has an FBS win over UMass. Now is UMass as good, or as bad as UConn? Everyone is down on Maine because of a last-weekend loss at New Hampshire. Cowell Stadium is a pretty big home field advantage and Maine was a much more consistent team than Towson.

[Mr. C]

Any chance Maine got knocked out of the top 8 today? Montana and NAU getting #7/8 ?
I had Maine ranked No. 2 overall before today's loss to New Hampshire. I still think that the Black Bears might be the toughest opponent for North Dakota State in the playoff field. Despite the loss today, Maine is a very good team.

[Mr. C]

I have several times. They are really good. BUT, people's perception's of leagues and teams on here is so screwed up it's become difficult to have a logical convo......

I have basically zero prejudice when it comes to leagues/teams. That's why I don't fit in anymore...lol. I need more ignorance....
I know you have, because we've talked about Fordham. Fordham is a full-scholarship program and isn't your typical Patriot League team (though the PL has in actuality had more success in the playoffs in the past decade than people around here care to remember). The Rams are suspect at times on defense (though they do force their share of turnovers), but they are one of the top offensive teams I've seen this year (I saw them twice in person).

[lionsrking2]

Not saying that common opponents won't factor in. But the transitive properties only go so far. OSU was a good win, not sure why you're trying to dismiss it.


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Transitive properties aren't reliable indicators when trying to make a bet on two teams playing each other, but when comparing bodies of work, it's what you have to go on ... it's part of the resume and should definitely be considered.

[lionsrking2]

I've seen Fordham ... while I certainly respect what they've done vs their schedule, they weren't very impressive.

[RabidRabbit]

You are clueless. Has anyone on here actually seen Fordham play?

Fordham is a solid OFFENSIVE team. As long as they are in a shoot-out game (EIU, EWU, McNeese) the Rams can probably succeed in being in the game til the end. Once Fordham hits a team that is solidly defensive, (NDSU is prime example, but also SDSU) I believe that the Fordham team will be stifled.

If they are seeded, it will be a high seed. I envision Rams to be a likely 1st round winner, but lose to a seeded team.

[Red & Black]

Transitive properties aren't reliable indicators when trying to make a bet on two teams playing each other, but when comparing bodies of work, it's what you have to go on ... it's part of the resume and should definitely be considered.

I've already acknowledged that records against common opponents should and will be considered.

That said, I don't think the fact that SELA beat a team EWU lost to on the road early in the season will outweigh the fact that EWU holds a win over a BCS opponent, while SELA is 0-1 in FBS games. It is close between the #3 and #4 seeds, but history has shown that the majority of the high seeds in past years hold an FBS win. In fact, most of them usually do. The selection committee views those very favorably, and in my opinion that's what gives EWU a slight edge tomorrow.


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[lionsrking2]

I've already acknowledged that records against common opponents should and will be considered.

That said, I don't think the fact that SELA beat a team EWU lost to on the road early in the season will outweigh the fact that EWU holds a win over a BCS opponent, while SELA is 0-1 in FBS games. It is close between the #3 and #4 seeds, but history has shown that the majority of the high seeds in past years hold an FBS win. In fact, most of them usually do. The selection committee views those very favorably, and in my opinion that's what gives EWU a slight edge tomorrow.


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I never said your loss at Sam Houston - alone - should outweigh the win over Oregon State. But I do think they're canceling factors and you have to dig deeper into the resumes than simply those two events.

[Sycamore62]

I'm not saying EIU doesn't deserve their #2 ranking or a 2 seed, I'm just saying the wins at SIU and ISUr could use a little perspective. SIU went to OT with them (EIU either missed a or had a short FG blocked at the end of regulation. The they destroyed ISUr a week before YSU did.

The win at SDSU was a big deal as all FBS wins should be. Not to take away from the near miss at NIU but they were up 21-0 and NIU had only run 3 plays (td, onside, td, 3-out, td). I think NIU is overrated though, I suppose that would be taking away from the loss

I think their special teams are awful and will probably cost them. I have seen more missed extra points and bad kick coverages than I ever have, and I'm an Indiana State alum (although it's tough to miss xtra pts/figs from your side of the field)

[Professor Chaos]

1. NDSU
2. EIU
3. EWU
4. SELA
5. Maine
6. Towson
7. McNeese
8. NAU

[Red & Black]

I never said your loss at Sam Houston - alone - should outweigh the win over Oregon State. But I do think they're canceling factors and you have to dig deeper into the resumes than simply those two events.

Fair enough. Good luck tomorrow.


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[lionsrking2]

Fair enough. Good luck tomorrow.


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Same here ... and truth be told, I don't care where we're seeded. I'd rather 3 or 4 (I know we're not getting 2) to ensure two home playoff games (assuming we win the first one), but we're just glad to be a part of it.

[LoneStar]

I had Maine ranked No. 2 overall before today's loss to New Hampshire. I still think that the Black Bears might be the toughest opponent for North Dakota State in the playoff field. Despite the loss today, Maine is a very good team.


You need to watch yesterday's game, the team that played New Hampshire didn't look like a team that deserved a seed. Outside of the Rhode Island win the last four games have been extremely tight. Not sure how a seeded team only scores 3 points against a UNH defense which is notoriously horrid.

As far as a team that could take NDSU? My vote would be SELA hands down.

[Green26]

My thoughts....

1. NDSU
2. EIU
3. EWU
4. SELA
5. Towson
6. McNeese St
7. Maine
8. NAU

Also considered:
Fordham
Montana

I keep going back and forth with Fordham and NAU. But NAU beat a 10-2 FCS team, I think that has to be accounted for. I do think Fordham has some nice wins but they don't look so great on paper.

I am pretty firm on the first five. The bottom three could really go in any order.

NAU was clobbered by Arizona and Montana St. NAU beat Montana by a few TD's early in the season. Montana beat Mont. St. 28-14 today. NAU barely beat Southern Utah today. NAU didn't play EWU this year. EWU beat Montana by 5. Montana is rated higher than NAU in virtually every computer rating and poll. Montana was no. 5 in the Sports Network poll last week, and Maine lost today.

Fordham? Who are they and who did they play?

[Green26]

There is that but Montana would also be a huge first round gate for the NCAA.

That loss to NAU really makes it difficult to justify seeding them over the Lumberjacks. I mean if it was close it would open the door but they were crushed.

Plus their only other good win is at Montana State...a team that finished the season in a free fall.

Montana lost 34-16 to NAU early in the season. NAU lost 36-7 to Montana St. Montana beat Mont. St. 36-7.

[Squealofthepig]

NAU was clobbered by Arizona and Montana St. NAU beat Montana by a few TD's early in the season. Montana beat Mont. St. 28-14 today. NAU barely beat Southern Utah today. Montana is rated higher than NAU in virtually every computer rating and poll. Montana was no. 5 in the Sports Network poll last week, and Maine lost today.

Fordham? Who are they and who did they play?

...are you seriously arguing for Montana over both NAU and Fordham? NAU beat Montana AND finished one game ahead of them in conference. They own the head-to-head. I don't care if it's early or not - they have the head-to-head. I can't see any rational person seeding Montana over NAU unless they're also accepting a bunch of cash under the table.

For the question of who has Fordham played, I would counter with - who has Montana beaten? We beat Montana State. That's it. Say what you will, but our wins are over meh teams: Appalachian State (4-8); North Dakota (3-8); Portland State (6-6, though a great showing today); UC Davis (5-7); Cal Poly (6-6); Sacramento State (5-7); South Dakota (a 4 point win against a 4-8 team); Weber State (2-10) and Montana State (7-5). That is one team we've beaten with a winning record. Should we make the playoffs? Well, obviously, yes, we have a solid 10-2 record with two excusable losses against playoff-bound EWU and NAU. But a seed? Why?

Fordham? They beat Villanova (I remember distinctly being in Nooga and watching Szczur run all over us), who finished 6-5. They beat FBS Temple (bad team, still FBS). They beat Lehigh (8-3). And Bucknell (6-5). If, blindly, you were asked "who should be seeded? A team with one win vs. a .500 or better team, or a team with three wins versus .500+ teams AND an FBS win?" who would you say? You can bury yourself in relative strength if you really want, but I think if you look objectively at the Griz vs. Fordham you'll find a lot more reasons to seed the Rams, beginning and ending with multiple wins over .500+ teams.

[Green26]

NAU has only one FCS loss though. Plus they have a decent road win over SUU who just beat MSU last week.

Montana has two FCS losses. Didn't play an FBS and their best win is over a 7-5 team. I just don't see it.

NAU was crushed by Arizona 35-0. NAU doesn't get credit for that. It was a loss, and a bad one. Montana is a much better team than NAU now. How do you explain Montana's no. 5 ranking in the SN poll last week? Or its better GPI, etc. ratings than NAU?

[Green26]

...are you seriously arguing for Montana over both NAU and Fordham? NAU beat Montana AND finished one game ahead of them in conference. They own the head-to-head. I don't care if it's early or not - they have the head-to-head. I can't see any rational person seeding Montana over NAU unless they're also accepting a bunch of cash under the table.

For the question of who has Fordham played, I would counter with - who has Montana beaten? We beat Montana State. That's it. Say what you will, but our wins are over meh teams: Appalachian State (4-8); North Dakota (3-8); Portland State (6-6, though a great showing today); UC Davis (5-7); Cal Poly (6-6); Sacramento State (5-7); South Dakota (a 4 point win against a 4-8 team); Weber State (2-10) and Montana State (7-5). That is one team we've beaten with a winning record. Should we make the playoffs? Well, obviously, yes, we have a solid 10-2 record with two excusable losses against playoff-bound EWU and NAU. But a seed? Why?

Fordham? They beat Villanova (I remember distinctly being in Nooga and watching Szczur run all over us), who finished 6-5. They beat FBS Temple (bad team, still FBS). They beat Lehigh (8-3). And Bucknell (6-5). If, blindly, you were asked "who should be seeded? A team with one win vs. a .500 or better team, or a team with three wins versus .500+ teams AND an FBS win?" who would you say? You can bury yourself in relative strength if you really want, but I think if you look objectively at the Griz vs. Fordham you'll find a lot more reasons to seed the Rams, beginning and ending with multiple wins over .500+ teams.

Yes, absolutely. Montana is much better than both at this point of the season. Roots Sports said today that Montana is as hot as any FBS team, and is ready to contend for the national championship. Montana was ranked no. 5 in the Sports Network poll last week, before Maine's loss today. Montana is higher rated in the GPI and other computer ratings than NAU, and certainly Fordham. When teams play in tough conferences, they play teams that have gotten beaten up in conference play and have lost games. That doesn't mean those teams aren't good. Fordham has played mostly cream puffs. Please don't tell me you're giving credit for Fordham beating Villanova, which was good 4 or 5 years ago. You lost all credibility by saying that. The Sports Network is predicting a seed for Montana.

[word]

I have several times. They are really good. BUT, people's perception's of leagues and teams on here is so screwed up it's become difficult to have a logical convo......

I have basically zero prejudice when it comes to leagues/teams. That's why I don't fit in anymore...lol. I need more ignorance....

You have seen fordham play and you still think that they are gerat?...my bad good? You can have as much ignorance as you need. I saw them play and they are trash. And by trash i mean i've seen 3 pl teams this year and it almost makes me want to puke. They should get 0 bids.

[Twentysix]

I still can not figure out how McNeese won 10 games this year.

Sandbaggers to the very end.

[Twentysix]

Proseed? :D

Need seed?

[Twentysix]

Nor was I claiming that they are. I was speaking to the relative strength of conferences as it pertains to Oregon State. They are in the Pac-12 North, which is the second best conference (behind the SEC West). I was not claiming that KSU is in the SEC.

Hope that clears things up.


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Indiana State is in the Best FCS conference, 8 slots better than the Big Sky if you believe Sagarin, idk how that arguement can carry that much water.

[Twentysix]

You are clueless. Has anyone on here actually seen Fordham play?

I watched Fordham v Temple and Lehigh. Haven't seen UWA though.

[mainejeff]

1. NDSU
2. Eastern Illinois
3. Eastern Washington
4. SE Louisiana
5. Towson
6. Maine
7. McNeese State
8. Montana

[Tod]

Montana lost 34-16 to NAU early in the season. NAU lost 36-7 to Montana St. Montana beat Mont. St. 36-7.

Better check that last score.


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[McNeese72]

You are clueless. Has anyone on here actually seen Fordham play?

Have you seen West Alabama play??

Doc

[kalm]

NDSU
EIU
EWU
SELA
Towson
McNeese
Maine
NAU

I personally and with much bias would of course seed us ahead of EIU with wins against OSU, 10-2 top 5 Montana, 8-4 top 25 SUU, 7-5 top 30 MSU, 6-6 top 40ish Cal Poly, and 6-6 PSU. I think EIU is a very good team, but the OVC is still the OVC. Despite 9-3 records, TSU and JSU have not beat a quality opponent between them. You can make the same case for Montana but they did go 10-2 in a better conference. You could even make the case that SUU was a better win than any of EIU's in-conference.

The SIU and ISU wins are solid but no better than our wins against Poly or MSU. The SDSU win is impressive and perhaps slightly trumps our OSU win due to MOV.

Comparable resume's but Eastern plays in a better conference and played a MUCH tougher schedule. I'm not saying the committee will see it that way but they could.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

NDSU
EIU
EWU
SELA
Towson
McNeese
Maine
NAU

I personally and with much bias would of course seed us ahead of EIU with wins against OSU, 10-2 top 5 Montana, 8-4 top 25 SUU, 7-5 top 30 MSU, 6-6 top 40ish Cal Poly, and 6-6 PSU. I think EIU is a very good team, but the OVC is still the OVC. Despite 9-3 records, TSU and JSU have not beat a quality opponent between them. You can make the same case for Montana but they did go 10-2 in a better conference. You could even make the case that SUU was a better win than any of EIU's in-conference.

The SIU and ISU wins are solid but no better than our wins against Poly or MSU. The SDSU win is impressive and perhaps slightly trumps our OSU win due to MOV.

Comparable resume's but Eastern plays in a better conference and played a MUCH tougher schedule. I'm not saying the committee will see it that way but they could.


EIU is a solid #2. They crushed San Diego State and took a #16 Northern Illinois team to the wire. I would be shocked if EIU is not #2.

[McNeese75]

You are clueless. Has anyone on here actually seen Fordham play?

No, you are biased and completely uniformed outside of your little circle jerk

[Bison56]

Need seed?
Proseed.

[PanthersBlue]

1. NDSU
2. Eastern Illinois
3. Eastern Washington
4. SE Louisiana
5. Towson
6. Maine
7. McNeese State
8. Montana

Mainjeff, I think you have it here.

[Bogus Megapardus]

I say we take Fordham, Lafayette, Lehigh and the rest of the idiotic Patriot League out behind the barn and beat the living crap out of them. They have no business at all playing football in this subdivision. Who the hell do they think they are taking playoff slots away from people who actually deserve them? Someone at the NCAA should be fired, too.

[PanthersBlue]

NDSU
EIU
EWU
SELA
Towson
McNeese
Maine
NAU

I personally and with much bias would of course seed us ahead of EIU with wins against OSU, 10-2 top 5 Montana, 8-4 top 25 SUU, 7-5 top 30 MSU, 6-6 top 40ish Cal Poly, and 6-6 PSU. I think EIU is a very good team, but the OVC is still the OVC. Despite 9-3 records, TSU and JSU have not beat a quality opponent between them. You can make the same case for Montana but they did go 10-2 in a better conference. You could even make the case that SUU was a better win than any of EIU's in-conference.

The SIU and ISU wins are solid but no better than our wins against Poly or MSU. The SDSU win is impressive and perhaps slightly trumps our OSU win due to MOV.

Comparable resume's but Eastern plays in a better conference and played a MUCH tougher schedule. I'm not saying the committee will see it that way but they could.

Like us beating San Diego St who is still competing for a MWC Crown meant nothing and coming very close to knocking off an NIU team that could see its self in a BCS Bowl. Ok................

[robsnotes4u]

...are you seriously arguing for Montana over both NAU and Fordham? NAU beat Montana AND finished one game ahead of them in conference. They own the head-to-head. I don't care if it's early or not - they have the head-to-head. I can't see any rational person seeding Montana over NAU unless they're also accepting a bunch of cash under the table.

For the question of who has Fordham played, I would counter with - who has Montana beaten? We beat Montana State. That's it. Say what you will, but our wins are over meh teams: Appalachian State (4-8); North Dakota (3-8); Portland State (6-6, though a great showing today); UC Davis (5-7); Cal Poly (6-6); Sacramento State (5-7); South Dakota (a 4 point win against a 4-8 team); Weber State (2-10) and Montana State (7-5). That is one team we've beaten with a winning record. Should we make the playoffs? Well, obviously, yes, we have a solid 10-2 record with two excusable losses against playoff-bound EWU and NAU. But a seed? Why?

Fordham? They beat Villanova (I remember distinctly being in Nooga and watching Szczur run all over us), who finished 6-5. They beat FBS Temple (bad team, still FBS). They beat Lehigh (8-3). And Bucknell (6-5). If, blindly, you were asked "who should be seeded? A team with one win vs. a .500 or better team, or a team with three wins versus .500+ teams AND an FBS win?" who would you say? You can bury yourself in relative strength if you really want, but I think if you look objectively at the Griz vs. Fordham you'll find a lot more reasons to seed the Rams, beginning and ending with multiple wins over .500+ teams.

Nice post, showing you can accept reality even when it doesn't favor your home team.


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[jacksfan29]

Yes, absolutely. Montana is much better than both at this point of the season. Roots Sports said today that Montana is as hot as any FBS team, and is ready to contend for the national championship. Montana was ranked no. 5 in the Sports Network poll last week, before Maine's loss today. Montana is higher rated in the GPI and other computer ratings than NAU, and certainly Fordham. When teams play in tough conferences, they play teams that have gotten beaten up in conference play and have lost games. That doesn't mean those teams aren't good. Fordham has played mostly cream puffs. Please don't tell me you're giving credit for Fordham beating Villanova, which was good 4 or 5 years ago. You lost all credibility by saying that. The Sports Network is predicting a seed for Montana.

What tough conference is it that Montana plays in? As a Montana poster put up earlier, the Griz have one win over an FCS school that posted a winning record this season (Montana State). I think Montana gets the #8, but you seem to be under the impression that Montana is a world beating team. They aren't.

[Bison56]

I say we take Fordham, Lafayette, Lehigh and the rest of the idiotic Patriot League out behind the barn and beat the living crap out of them. They have no business at all playing football in this subdivision. Who the hell do they think they are taking playoff slots away from people who actually deserve them? Someone at the NCAA should be fired, too.
I concur xnodx

[kalm]

Like us beating San Diego St who is still competing for a MWC Crown meant nothing and coming very close to knocking off an NIU team that could see its self in a BCS Bowl. Ok................

Did I not say the SDSU win was impressive? I'm just posting a different perspective. Relax.

[dbackjon]

NAU was crushed by Arizona 35-0. NAU doesn't get credit for that. It was a loss, and a bad one. Montana is a much better team than NAU now. How do you explain Montana's no. 5 ranking in the SN poll last week? Or its better GPI, etc. ratings than NAU?


Uh Arizona just crushed Oregon. Montana would have lost 50-0 to Arizona

montana played Oklahoma clown college

SUU would beat Montana

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Uh Arizona just crushed Oregon. Montana would have lost 50-0 to Arizona

montana played Oklahoma clown college

SUU would beat Montana

I was waiting for you to get on. Lots of Montana fans on here all of a sudden.

[kalm]

I was waiting for you to get on. Lots of Montana fans on here all of a sudden.

Well they did go 10-2 in a power conference despite no great wins. Speaking of which, Maine suddenly doesn't have very many high quality wins either..,

[Grizzlies82]

What tough conference is it that Montana plays in? As a Montana poster put up earlier, the Griz have one win over an FCS school that posted a winning record this season (Montana State). I think Montana gets the #8, but you seem to be under the impression that Montana is a world beating team. They aren't.

No I don't think Montana is a world beating team. Yet to answer your question, let's go with the typical MVFC answer;
"Big Sky teams don't have great records because the conference is sooooo tough they all beat up on each other."

[kalm]

No I don't think Montana is a world beating team. Yet to answer your question, let's go with the typical MVFC answer;
"Big Sky teams don't have great records because the conference is sooooo tough they all beat up on each other."

This lol. That weak conference that has 3 teams in the top 10 of probably every poll.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

NDSU
EIU
EWU
SELU


They are the top 4 seeds.

Just on ESPN

[Bogus Megapardus]

I concur xnodx

You're damn right you concur! What the hell does that bunch of pansies know about football? They were all Division III until a couple years ago anyhow. Maybe even lower. There are legitimate teams out there, deserving of bids, that have been playing DI football for almost thirty years. That's like a hundred in Tiger or Wildcat or Panther or other mascot years. They should get playoff spots first.

[Professor Chaos]

NDSU
EIU
EWU
SELU


They are the top 4 seeds.

Just on ESPN
No surprises there. Will be interesting to see how 5-8 shake out at the bottom of the hour.

[Engineer86]

You're damn right you concur! What the hell does that bunch of pansies know about football? They were all Division III until a couple years ago anyhow. Maybe even lower. There are legitimate teams out there, deserving of bids, that have been playing DI football for almost thirty years. That's like a hundred in Tiger or Wildcat or Panther or other mascot years. They should get playoff spots first.

you are so right, Lehigh and Fordham lost to Lafayette who is under .500. They must be terrible. Obviously Lafayette does not deserve to be in there. I can't wait to see the posts on this board after the Lafayette game is final next week. xcoffeex

[Grizzlies82]

No surprises there. Will be interesting to see how 5-8 shake out at the bottom of the hour.

Yep the last four seeds, and the final six or so of the 24 are the real questions.

[Red & Black]

Same here ... and truth be told, I don't care where we're seeded. I'd rather 3 or 4 (I know we're not getting 2) to ensure two home playoff games (assuming we win the first one), but we're just glad to be a part of it.

Played out kinda how I thought. Congrats.


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