MVFC conference scheduling question

[DoubleE]

in some years FCS allows schools to have a 12 game schedule and this was one of those years

In years when their is allowed a 12 game schedule, why isnt the conference schedule adjusted to 9 conference games so that the MVFC plays everyone instead of each school not playing 1 of their conference memebers ? to me if we can add another game this is the game to add

[BisonFan02]

in some years FCS allows schools to have a 12 game schedule and this was one of those years

In years when their is allowed a 12 game schedule, why isnt the conference schedule adjusted to 9 conference games so that the MVFC plays everyone instead of each school not playing 1 of their conference memebers ? to me if we can add another game this is the game to add

8 game conf schedule with a 2 year rotation of 1 opponent not on the schedule..."local" schools (NDSU and SDSU for example) exempt from that omittion. I think this was a mechanism that was set up to minimize the trips to the Dakotas by the eastern Valley teams over time.

[DoubleE]

8 game conf schedule with a 2 year rotation of 1 opponent not on the schedule..."local" schools (NDSU and SDSU for example) exempt from that omittion. I think this was a mechanism that was set up to minimize the trips to the Dakotas by the eastern Valley teams over time.

could keep the rotation in 11 game season schedules withe the understanding that 12 game seasons everyone plays everyone

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

could keep the rotation in 11 game season schedules withe the understanding that 12 game seasons everyone plays everyone


I think teams like YSU and Ind State were complaining esp when South Dakota came into the league about the travel costs.

YSU really does not belong in the Valley. EIU is a better fit IMO.

[AmsterBison]

I think teams like YSU and Ind State were complaining esp when South Dakota came into the league about the travel costs.

YSU really does not belong in the Valley. EIU is a better fit IMO.

Plenty of people say that about NDSU too. I like having the Penguins in the Valley.

[JayJ79]

could keep the rotation in 11 game season schedules withe the understanding that 12 game seasons everyone plays everyone

the reason for the two-year rotation is to maintain the alternating "home-and-home" format with each team. sprinkling in 9-game conference slates in the rare 12-game seaons would mess that up. Better to keep it consistent.

Besides, an 8-game MVFC schedule is already enough of a meat-grinder, no reason to make it an even bigger one.
And many teams enjoy the extra flexibility of that bonus opportunity to schedule another OOC game.

[Houndawg]

I think teams like YSU and Ind State were complaining esp when South Dakota came into the league about the travel costs.

YSU really does not belong in the Valley. EIU is a better fit IMO.

True dat. YSU should be a CAA or PFL team

[Houndawg]

the reason for the two-year rotation is to maintain the alternating "home-and-home" format with each team. sprinkling in 9-game conference slates in the rare 12-game seaons would mess that up. Better to keep it consistent.

Besides, an 8-game MVFC schedule is already enough of a meat-grinder, no reason to make it an even bigger one.
And many teams enjoy the extra flexibility of that bonus opportunity to schedule another OOC game.

So make it a nine team league.

[DoubleE]

True dat. YSU should be a CAA or PFL team

YSU leaving the MVFC would a) hurt the conference strength and b) improve the strength of the CAA

dont get why dakota fans want us to leave especially since we have been in the conference longer then them.

Argument could be made the dakotas should be in Big Sky and not MVFC

[Houndawg]

YSU leaving the MVFC would a) hurt the conference strength and b) improve the strength of the CAA

dont get why dakota fans want us to leave especially since we have been in the conference longer then them.

Argument could be made the dakotas should be in Big Sky and not MVFC

It isn't personal, and I agree that the dakotas might fit the Big Sky better. Neither the Dakotas or YSU have much in common with the MVC. Yes they're all good programs and make the MVC stronger, but there are too many of them. I've never liked unbalanced schedules because, imo, a conference by definition is a group of schools that play each other. Could even see YSU being an OVC team. Maybe take the teams in the MVC, excluding the Dakotas, and the OVC and put the more easterly ones in the OVC and the more westerly ones in the MVC.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

YSU leaving the MVFC would a) hurt the conference strength and b) improve the strength of the CAA

dont get why dakota fans want us to leave especially since we have been in the conference longer then them.

Argument could be made the dakotas should be in Big Sky and not MVFC



Look at the geographic 'foot print' of the conference. YSU's closest opponent is Ind State: 425 miles

Big Sky.....No way! If anything UND should be in the Valley not the Big Sky.

YSU would be a better fit in the CAA.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

It isn't personal, and I agree that the dakotas might fit the Big Sky better. Neither the Dakotas or YSU have much in common with the MVC. Yes they're all good programs and make the MVC stronger, but there are too many of them. I've never liked unbalanced schedules because, imo, a conference by definition is a group of schools that play each other.


Big Sky?

No way...period.

California-Utah-Arizona-Oregon.......does that makes sense for NDSU to be in a conference with schools in those states? No way.

[Houndawg]

Big Sky?

No way...period.

California-Utah-Arizona-Oregon.......does that makes sense for NDSU to be in a conference with schools in those states? No way.

Maybe the big Sky should take the Dakota teams and break into two coferences.

[Gil Dobie]

Maybe the big Sky should take the Dakota teams and break into two coferences.

What states does the Missouri River actually flow through or border the Missouri Valley? ;)

I like the conference the way it is, although a true round robin would be nice.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Maybe the big Sky should take the Dakota teams and break into two coferences.

You would love to get rid of the Dakota teams, wouldn't you? YSU is the outlier, not the Dakota Schools. Always has been.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

Maybe the big Sky should take the Dakota teams and break into two coferences.


Who would be in the East portion of the conference?

UND
NDSU
USD
SDSU

and who else?

Montanas?
Northern Colorado?

The Big Sky is not a viable conference for any Dakota school unless there was no Valley conference. EIU or even SEMO would be a better fit compared to YSU.

[clenz]

Don't say anything about YSU not belonging our fitting in because of where they are, the don't share share a conference with any school in the MVFC, they don't have a natural rival in any way they've accomplished less than the Dakota's since joining the MVFC, or anything else....

They take it as you hate them, have a personal vendetta, are jealous, etc.

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[JayJ79]

I don't particularly like the 9-team conference thing, but I understand why they added the 9th team as a "safety net" with all the "musical chairs" that has gone on in college athletics the past few years, and with a number of MVFC teams talking about "moving up" to FBS.

At least it's still MOSTLY a round-robin, unlike those 12-16 team leagues

[Houndawg]

You would love to get rid of the Dakota teams, wouldn't you? YSU is the outlier, not the Dakota Schools. Always has been.

Geographically speaking, yes, and YSU too.

[Yotes]

You would love to get rid of the Dakota teams, wouldn't you? YSU is the outlier, not the Dakota Schools. Always has been.
The Dakota schools (with possibly the exception of USD) would be outliers if they weren't all in the conference together (see UND). If Fargo were here on their own, they'd be farther out than Youngstown. But we're all here together, and Youngstown is all by itself.

[Houndawg]

The Dakota schools (with possibly the exception of USD) would be outliers if they weren't all in the conference together (see UND). If Fargo were here on their own, they'd be farther out than Youngstown. But we're all here together, and Youngstown is all by itself.

Agreed, and if only one goes it should be YSU. I'm thinking geographically here although that would leave the MVC as a weaker conference. Unfortunately travel seems to be a very big factor at the FCS level, to the detriment of interesting playoff match ups.

[Houndawg]

You would love to get rid of the Dakota teams, wouldn't you? YSU is the outlier, not the Dakota Schools. Always has been.

:D

Once Bohl leaves you'll be back to Earth and fighting with the rest of us to get your snouts in the trough...

[NoDak 4 Ever]

:D

Once Bohl leaves you'll be back to Earth and fighting with the rest of us to get your snouts in the trough...

47 out of 50.

Bohl has only been there for 10 of them.

[Houndawg]

47 out of 50.

Bohl has only been there for 10 of them.


Now don't go all butthurt clenz on me...

[Bisonwinagn]

Interesting Fact about distance. Most people assume Montana and MSU are close to NDSU since they are in a border state. However the schools are on the opposite sides of the states:
NDSU to MSU is 750 miles
NDSU to ISUb is 835 miles
NDSU to UM is 950 miles
NDSU to YSU is 1050 miles

Interesting that YSU is only 100 miles further away than UM. Also every other team in the valley is closer to NDSU than UM.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Now don't go all butthurt clenz on me...

just trying to illustrate that people waiting for this team to hit a slump will likely be disappointed

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

just trying to illustrate that people waiting for this team to hit a slump will likely be disappointed


This here.

The Bison are going to be tough as nails next year. Very good core group on offense will return plus Wentz is the real deal at QB. DT and NG will need some depth to develop but LB and secondary should be really good.

The Bison will reload.

[Yotes]

This here.

The Bison are going to be tough as nails next year. Very good core group on offense will return plus Wentz is the real deal at QB. DT and NG will need some depth to develop but LB and secondary should be really good.

The Bison will reload.
Obviously reload will be far more accurate than rebuild, with Bohl at the helm that should be the norm. Compared to this season and the last two it will seem like a rebuilding season when you guys likely lose two games in one year, as opposed to two over three years (potentially).

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

Obviously reload will be far more accurate than rebuild, with Bohl at the helm that should be the norm. Compared to this season and the last two it will seem like a rebuilding season when you guys likely lose two games in one year, as opposed to two over three years (potentially).



Bison fans are getting spoiled these last 3 years for sure. The team next year will have some growing pains but they should still be good with a lot of players that play significant minutes returning.

Our D-line is going to need some help. The interior loses 4 seniors this coming year.

[Twentysix]

Obviously reload will be far more accurate than rebuild, with Bohl at the helm that should be the norm. Compared to this season and the last two it will seem like a rebuilding season when you guys likely lose two games in one year, as opposed to two over three years (potentially).

NDSU will have a huge fall off next near. We will likely only be a top 10 team.

[clenz]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2a/MissouriValleyFootballLocations.png




It's pretty easy to see who the outlier is....also that map is missing USD

NDSU is out there, but SDSU is just a 3 hour drive from NDSU, USD is 4, and UNI is 6 hours on the closest side and 835 miles on the longest side.

YSU is 430 miles and nearly 7 hours to it's CLOSEST school....to put that in perspective Youngstown is 40 miles and an hour closer to the Atlantic freaking Ocean than the nearest MVFC school.


Average YSU travel 750 miles (430 610 616 803 510 953 1,023 1,043 620)
Average NDSU travel 648 miles (1,043 835 692 768 657 450 301 190 898)

NDSU could easily be looked at as every bit out of the footprint - and without SDSU (USD too but they are a tag along at this point sadly) they would be. However, the smartest thing NDSU and SDSU ever did was partner up in the move. It made it viable and attractive to conference options.


NDSU also is big rivals with SDSU, a geographic (and not too long ago D2) rival of USD, and all 3 of those are old NCC rivals with UNI. SDSU, NDSU, WIU, and now USD all share an all sport conference as well. What does YSU actually share with anyone in the MVFC? YSU has much in common as Notre Dame with the ACC - but the same story plays out. Writing is seen on the wall that without a conference tie in/affiliation you're up **** creek when it comes to the playoff format and had to find someone/anyone to latch onto and the old Gateway was desperate at that point with the loss of EIU and scrambling to keep an autobid. At this point that isn't the case.

[clenz]

Can't wait for the neg rep, name calling, and butt hurt from YSU fans to start rolling in because I (yet again) pointed out facts regarding their fit/place in the MVFC.

[BisonFan02]

Can't wait for the neg rep, name calling, and butt hurt from YSU fans to start rolling in because I (yet again) pointed out facts regarding their fit/place in the MVFC.

Agree with you. Boot them and bring in another quality school (located within footprint) to help bolster the Summit as well (need a healthy Summit to maintain the MVFC).

[clenz]

F that..leave it at 9 and be fine with the stupid rotation

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[BisonFan02]

F that..leave it at 9 and be fine with the stupid rotation

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Fair enough, but what do you suggest if the Summit continues to lose non-football schools? The MVFC needs to retain NDSU, SDSU, USD, and WIU...unless you guys in the MVC plan on taking in these schools to save football :D (yeah, I know).

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Fair enough, but what do you suggest if the Summit continues to lose non-football schools? The MVFC needs to retain NDSU, SDSU, USD, and WIU...unless you guys in the MVC plan on taking in these schools to save football :D (yeah, I know).

Nope. He think as much of NDSU as he does YSU in all things non-football

[clenz]

Nope. He think as much of NDSU as he does YSU in all things non-football

Basically this.....to an extent

NDSU/SDSU/USD don't fit the Valley "mold". What the Valley mold is? Well, look at who they added after Creighton left and you'll see what the MVC is going for.

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[Lehigh'98]

How would YSU fit in the OVC? Any better than MVFC?

[clenz]

How would YSU fit in the OVC? Any better than MVFC?Location/geography wise? You bet

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/71/OhioValleyLocations.png

Not all of those schools have football (SIU-E and Belmont..who the MVC looked very hard at) and Morehead in the PFL.

Average travel from YSU - 550 miles...or 200 miles closer. (645 630 570 740 550 530 380 470 600)


I have no idea how YSU's university fits the OVC university mission/mold though. I also doubt the OVC would take a football only member and they geography of their all sports in the Horizon League is better Chicago, IL (402) Cleveland, OH (80) Dayton, OH (250) Detroit, MI (230) Green Bay, WI (610) Milwaukee, WI (500) Rochester, MI (250) Valparaiso, IN (365) (340 average)

I know YSU desperately wants the MAC, but they don't fit the MAC mold from what I understand. I haven't done the numbers for the CAA, but they wouldn't be much worse than the MVFC and would have closer games, and gets into an area that might actually care about them

[Hammerhead]

There is a nice map of all the FCS teams at http://www.championshipsubdivision.com/fcs-team-map/ with each conference noted by different colors.

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

I don't get how YSU doesn't fit the "MAC mold"? How different is YSU from Akron, Kent, Miami, Ohio, Bowling Green and Toledo???? Personally, I've been on four of those campuses as well as Ball State, Eastern and Central Michigan. Nothing jumped out at me why YSU was that different. UMass fits the "MAC mold" more than YSU? And Temple before them? xconfusedx


If it isn't the MAC, then by geography YSU should be in the OVC since Youngstown, OH actually sits in the Ohio River watershed (Mahoning River flows into the Beaver River which flows into the Ohio). YSU is hardly in the CAA footprint with the closest school being Towson at 311 miles. The only other CAA schools within 400 miles are JMU (318), Delaware (343) and Villanova (355). I've been to Pittsburgh and Cleveland a couple of times and it was very clear folks in that area didn't view themselves as "Eastern". I really don't see the connection to the CAA at all. JMHO, but they should be in the MAC. (Just like Marshall sitting in Huntington, WV on the Ohio River and not too far from Ohio U.)

[darell1976]

Agree with you. Boot them and bring in another quality school (located within footprint) to help bolster the Summit as well (need a healthy Summit to maintain the MVFC).

xwhistlex

[BisonFan02]

xwhistlex

I said quality Darell :D

[SoupCity85]

Just a note to the group.....I don't think you'll find many YSU fans who disagree with your assertion that we don't belong in the MVFC. On the contrary, a large majority of us understand that we have no natural rivalry within the MVFC. Everything is to damn far away and with the economy and a lack of jobs in the Ytown area, traveling with the team makes it pretty difficult. There was a tossing around of the CAA several years, but I don't even think that would be a good move even though those schools are closer. As for the OVC, probably the BEST option of the 3....but I don't see YSU leaving the Horizon League for all the other sports.

Now about the MAC, this topic has been discussed to the death already. You'll get a 50-50 view from YSU fans. I actually thought it MAY happen in the early 90s, but Tressel's team destroyed Akron and Kent, hell they won't even consider playing YSU any more. Then the whole thing about Stambaugh Stadium not being big enough for MAC football....blah, blah,blah...basically a bunch of excuses not to allow YSU in their conference. I think what it came down to was Akron and Kent not wanting to add a 3rd school that would which would further deteriorate their programs. Keep in mind, this was the 90s and everyone knows that was a successful decade for the Penguins.

I, for one, would not like a move to the MAC...even though that is the most logical move for YSU. We would have natural rivals and closer away games.....which would probably create a better following. Bowl games, yeah they're nice....but not the "TOILET" Bowl in Detroit. I would much rather the Penguins have the ability to win a National Championship....sounds WAY better.

Kind of wish we went back to being an independent, although as 1 poster put it.....makes it very difficult to schedule the "right" games in order to make a playoff run. So here we sit, in the MVFC just get back to a reasonable version of the 90s.

[SoupCity85]

Just a note to the group.....I don't think you'll find many YSU fans who disagree with your assertion that we don't belong in the MVFC. On the contrary, a large majority of us understand that we have no natural rivalry within the MVFC. Everything is to damn far away and with the economy and a lack of jobs in the Ytown area, traveling with the team makes it pretty difficult. There was a tossing around of the CAA several years, but I don't even think that would be a good move even though those schools are closer. As for the OVC, probably the BEST option of the 3....but I don't see YSU leaving the Horizon League for all the other sports.

Now about the MAC, this topic has been discussed to the death already. You'll get a 50-50 view from YSU fans. I actually thought it MAY happen in the early 90s, but Tressel's team destroyed Akron and Kent, hell they won't even consider playing YSU any more. Then the whole thing about Stambaugh Stadium not being big enough for MAC football....blah, blah,blah...basically a bunch of excuses not to allow YSU in their conference. I think what it came down to was Akron and Kent not wanting to add a 3rd school that would which would further deteriorate their programs. Keep in mind, this was the 90s and everyone knows that was a successful decade for the Penguins.

I, for one, would not like a move to the MAC...even though that is the most logical move for YSU. We would have natural rivals and closer away games.....which would probably create a better following. Bowl games, yeah they're nice....but not the "TOILET" Bowl in Detroit. I would much rather the Penguins have the ability to win a National Championship....sounds WAY better.

Kind of wish we went back to being an independent, although as 1 poster put it.....makes it very difficult to schedule the "right" games in order to make a playoff run. So here we sit, in the MVFC just get back to a reasonable version of the 90s.


Holy Crap!!!! My grammar is horrible, apologies to all!!! Hopefully you were able to follow along.

[darell1976]

I said quality Darell :D

I guess that leaves our football team out.:(

[ysubigred]

How would YSU fit in the OVC? Any better than MVFC?

+1 ^^ this was where YSU started it's Div 1 venture.. OVC for all sports would suit me fine. I think it hurts YSU having all sports except football one conference and then a tough/travel heavy conference for football (YSU's money maker). Since we joined the Gateway/MVFC the attendance at YSU for football has been cut in half. The uninformed/casual YSU fan (more that informed) knows who USD, MSU, SIU etc.. is. The only reason they'll know who NDSU is is because they seen them on Game day getting tuned in for the Ohio State game LOL!! xshakingmadx

[ysubigred]

I don't get how YSU doesn't fit the "MAC mold"? How different is YSU from Akron, Kent, Miami, Ohio, Bowling Green and Toledo???? Personally, I've been on four of those campuses as well as Ball State, Eastern and Central Michigan. Nothing jumped out at me why YSU was that different. UMass fits the "MAC mold" more than YSU? And Temple before them? xconfusedx


If it isn't the MAC, then by geography YSU should be in the OVC since Youngstown, OH actually sits in the Ohio River watershed (Mahoning River flows into the Beaver River which flows into the Ohio). YSU is hardly in the CAA footprint with the closest school being Towson at 311 miles. The only other CAA schools within 400 miles are JMU (318), Delaware (343) and Villanova (355). I've been to Pittsburgh and Cleveland a couple of times and it was very clear folks in that area didn't view themselves as "Eastern". I really don't see the connection to the CAA at all. JMHO, but they should be in the MAC. (Just like Marshall sitting in Huntington, WV on the Ohio River and not too far from Ohio U.)

The difference is simple for YSU.... $$

[clenz]

The difference is simple for YSU.... $$The reason I don't see YSU fitting in with the MAC is the same reason I don't see UNI, ISUr, SIU, etc.. fitting into the MAC (keep in mind that UNI and ISUr are almost identical universities in MANY ways). The average enrollment in the MAC is over 20k (about 24k I believe), they are all national research institutions. ISUr a national university rated 152 and has the enrollment to come close to the MAC at about 19K. UNI is one of the highest rated regional universities in the nation. SIU is also a rated national university but enrollment seems to be between 13-14k most years and aren't as highly rated. YSU is a regional university that isn't rated.

UMASS is a top 100 national university with an enrollment of 22k
Temple is a top 120 national university with an enrollment of about 28k

YSU is right in the footprint, but unless the MAC is done with their institutional mold they won't get in.


That is what I meant with they don't fit in with the MAC schools....then again EMU is a regional rated school that is rated WAY below UNI but has an enrollment of 19k compared to UNI's 13K and was in it from very early on

[NoDak 4 Ever]

The reason I don't see YSU fitting in with the MAC is the same reason I don't see UNI, ISUr, SIU, etc.. fitting into the MAC (keep in mind that UNI and ISUr are almost identical universities in MANY ways). The average enrollment in the MAC is over 20k (about 24k I believe), they are all national research institutions. ISUr a national university rated 152 and has the enrollment to come close to the MAC at about 19K. UNI is one of the highest rated regional universities in the nation. SIU is also a rated national university but enrollment seems to be between 13-14k most years and aren't as highly rated. YSU is a regional university that isn't rated.

UMASS is a top 100 national university with an enrollment of 22k
Temple is a top 120 national university with an enrollment of about 28k

YSU is right in the footprint, but unless the MAC is done with their institutional mold they won't get in.


That is what I meant with they don't fit in with the MAC schools....then again EMU is a regional rated school that is rated WAY below UNI but has an enrollment of 19k compared to UNI's 13K and was in it from very early on

I'm curious then, how you think that Loyola and UNI are similar, and so much different than NDSU.

[Twentysix]

The reason I don't see YSU fitting in with the MAC is the same reason I don't see UNI, ISUr, SIU, etc.. fitting into the MAC (keep in mind that UNI and ISUr are almost identical universities in MANY ways). The average enrollment in the MAC is over 20k (about 24k I believe), they are all national research institutions. ISUr a national university rated 152 and has the enrollment to come close to the MAC at about 19K. UNI is one of the highest rated regional universities in the nation. SIU is also a rated national university but enrollment seems to be between 13-14k most years and aren't as highly rated. YSU is a regional university that isn't rated.

UMASS is a top 100 national university with an enrollment of 22k
Temple is a top 120 national university with an enrollment of about 28k

YSU is right in the footprint, but unless the MAC is done with their institutional mold they won't get in.


That is what I meant with they don't fit in with the MAC schools....then again EMU is a regional rated school that is rated WAY below UNI but has an enrollment of 19k compared to UNI's 13K and was in it from very early on

Lololol, you can't be one of the highest rated "regional universities" in the "nation".

It's a regional ranking. You maybe one of the highest rated universities in that region, but that's where it ends.

Are you perhaps trying to say UNI is one of the best non-doctoral universities in the nation?

[clenz]

I'm curious then, how you think that Loyola and UNI are similar, and so much different than NDSU.
It's what the MVC was looking for....I've discussed this many times with NDSU/SDSU fans....but I'll type it again.


When UNI joined the MVC in 1991 it wasn't nearly what it has been the last decade or so. The MVC was coming out of a period where it was one of the top conference in the nation with Louisiville, Cinci, Xavier, SLU, Houston, Memphis, New Mexico State, North Texas, and Tulsa who all left between 1970 and 1996. The MVC is one of the oldest conference in the nation, and has a very storied history. However, the conference hit a tough patch in the late 70's and 80's when the Big East, Big 8/12, SW Conference, etc... were all formed and grew (basically when TV started to take hold to a greater deal). UNI was coming off of an NCAA tournament appearance, knocking off #3 Missouri. The MVC in 1991 was very similar to...say...Summit now.

However, as time went on the conference started to grow an identity and a vision for athletics. Schools like UNI, Missouri State, Evansville, were (to be completely honest) lucky to get in when we did. However, we (UNI) matured into one of the flagship athletic universities - especially in the last decade to 13 years.


At this point the MVC is solidly a basketball conference. There is a interesting, and somewhat tense, relationship between all of the schools. The conference wanted/needed to add a private to replaced Creighton to keep a balance and keep all of the private/non-football schools happy. There is a 6/4 public/private split right now (as when Creighton was here). However, the split is 5/5 football/non-football. Our conference looks very similar (but on a smaller scale) to the old Big East, and took that situation very seriously and looked closely at it. The nice thing is that the football schools are all basketball first (ish) schools so we all understood the importance of adding a proper fit to keep everyone happy. ISUr, ISUb and MSU are 100% basketball first schools - look at their facilities and fan support for each. UNI and SIU are about a 50/50 split but "push come to shove" put just as much into basketball as football. Both have Sweet 16s, multiple conference titles, multiple conference tournament titles, both have teams from the last decade that would be ranked right there with any team in "modern" MVC history (since 1980ish). Both have fantastic basketball facilities.

The private schools have, and always will make it known, that there "power" of priv/pub can't swing too far towards the public schools...same for football/non.

Just look at the schools that the MVC considered, seriously, for the add.

Loyola - private school, with a 430M+ endowment, ranked 106 nationally, dumping millions of dollars into updated the basketball facility and improving the program. Located in Chicago.
Belmont - private school with good endowment, highly ranked regional university, proven basketball success and willing to do a ton to continue to improve. Their biggest downside was being in Nashville - though was probably something that would have easily been put up with by every school.
ORU - Private school massive endowment, history with the conference, basketball history, in the footprint to keep Wichita State happy, recruiting area, but the religious aspect of it kept them out...much like what will be Liberty's biggest issue
Denver - private school with good basketball, large endowment, spends a ton on athletics. Weren't willing to add sports that the MVC wanted them too and they were pretty out there for travel.


You getting the picture of what the MVC wants yet?

NDSU and SDSU don't fit that mold in any way, shape, form, imagination, anything. Both are clearly 1000000% football schools that are public with basketball facilities that aren't up to par. You can say what you want about the new BSA...it isn't built and wouldn't be built in time for the move. The privates and WSU want nothing to do with the DSUs...and the football schools are lukewarm at best and that's only in the interest of saving the MVFC if anything were to happen years down the road. A poster on the MVC forum broke it down at one point, Wichita is closer to the Gulf of Mexico, Denver, and I think the atlantic ocean than Fargo...

[BisonFan02]

At least in the case of NDSU, any conference move that doesn't include the possibility of FBS isn't going to happen. I could see NDSU in the MAC before I would see them in the MVC, and that is a stretch.

[DoubleE]

At least in the case of NDSU, any conference move that doesn't include the possibility of FBS isn't going to happen. I could see NDSU in the MAC before I would see them in the MVC, and that is a stretch.

Mac ? you mean mountain west right ?

[taper]

xwhistlex

Remember when the Summit scheduled a site visit up in Grand Forks and you guys told them not to bother coming?

[NoDak 4 Ever]

It's what the MVC was looking for....I've discussed this many times with NDSU/SDSU fans....but I'll type it again.


When UNI joined the MVC in 1991 it wasn't nearly what it has been the last decade or so. The MVC was coming out of a period where it was one of the top conference in the nation with Louisiville, Cinci, Xavier, SLU, Houston, Memphis, New Mexico State, North Texas, and Tulsa who all left between 1970 and 1996. The MVC is one of the oldest conference in the nation, and has a very storied history. However, the conference hit a tough patch in the late 70's and 80's when the Big East, Big 8/12, SW Conference, etc... were all formed and grew (basically when TV started to take hold to a greater deal). UNI was coming off of an NCAA tournament appearance, knocking off #3 Missouri. The MVC in 1991 was very similar to...say...Summit now.

However, as time went on the conference started to grow an identity and a vision for athletics. Schools like UNI, Missouri State, Evansville, were (to be completely honest) lucky to get in when we did. However, we (UNI) matured into one of the flagship athletic universities - especially in the last decade to 13 years.


At this point the MVC is solidly a basketball conference. There is a interesting, and somewhat tense, relationship between all of the schools. The conference wanted/needed to add a private to replaced Creighton to keep a balance and keep all of the private/non-football schools happy. There is a 6/4 public/private split right now (as when Creighton was here). However, the split is 5/5 football/non-football. Our conference looks very similar (but on a smaller scale) to the old Big East, and took that situation very seriously and looked closely at it. The nice thing is that the football schools are all basketball first (ish) schools so we all understood the importance of adding a proper fit to keep everyone happy. ISUr, ISUb and MSU are 100% basketball first schools - look at their facilities and fan support for each. UNI and SIU are about a 50/50 split but "push come to shove" put just as much into basketball as football. Both have Sweet 16s, multiple conference titles, multiple conference tournament titles, both have teams from the last decade that would be ranked right there with any team in "modern" MVC history (since 1980ish). Both have fantastic basketball facilities.

The private schools have, and always will make it known, that there "power" of priv/pub can't swing too far towards the public schools...same for football/non.

Just look at the schools that the MVC considered, seriously, for the add.

Loyola - private school, with a 430M+ endowment, ranked 106 nationally, dumping millions of dollars into updated the basketball facility and improving the program. Located in Chicago.
Belmont - private school with good endowment, highly ranked regional university, proven basketball success and willing to do a ton to continue to improve. Their biggest downside was being in Nashville - though was probably something that would have easily been put up with by every school.
ORU - Private school massive endowment, history with the conference, basketball history, in the footprint to keep Wichita State happy, recruiting area, but the religious aspect of it kept them out...much like what will be Liberty's biggest issue
Denver - private school with good basketball, large endowment, spends a ton on athletics. Weren't willing to add sports that the MVC wanted them too and they were pretty out there for travel.


You getting the picture of what the MVC wants yet?

NDSU and SDSU don't fit that mold in any way, shape, form, imagination, anything. Both are clearly 1000000% football schools that are public with basketball facilities that aren't up to par. You can say what you want about the new BSA...it isn't built and wouldn't be built in time for the move. The privates and WSU want nothing to do with the DSUs...and the football schools are lukewarm at best and that's only in the interest of saving the MVFC if anything were to happen years down the road. A poster on the MVC forum broke it down at one point, Wichita is closer to the Gulf of Mexico, Denver, and I think the atlantic ocean than Fargo...

I don't really care. I just like to hear you talk about UNI like it's a thing.

The new BSA will be built and we will have almost every advantage under the sun over UNI. Comprehensive doctoral university nationally recognized with a **** ton of money and close to 20k students.

[BisonFan02]

Mac ? you mean mountain west right ?

For the sake of the comparison to the MVC, sure! MWC would be a tougher "move up" to be competitive in all sports.

[darell1976]

Remember when the Summit scheduled a site visit up in Grand Forks and you guys told them not to bother coming?

Only because the Big Sky offered a home for football, the SL has no football conference and the MVFC was never an option.

[frozennorth]

NDSU will have a huge fall off next near. We will likely only be a top 10 team.
the real drop off will be in 2015, not next year. They ran next years defense much of the game yesterday. It was good and will get better. Most of the receiver depth will be back. Hinz and Plankers will be able to step in for gimme and turner without too much of a drop off. Crocket and Bonnet return. Linebacker depth and talent will possibly even improve. I think ET takes the MLB spot next year, as I expect he will have the size knowledge and knowledge for it by then. The secondary is loaded and will be for years. They should be a solid contender next year, possibly the favorite. If the d-line can come close to reloading and wentz is anywhere near as good as advertised, next year might be another lay-up like this year is proving to be.

[frozennorth]

Only because the Big Sky offered a home for football, the SL has no football conference and the MVFC was never an option.
the bigsky took uc davis and cal poly as football only schools, no reason they wouldn't take UND.

at the end of the day, UND didn't even try. Being able to make the stupid talking point about UND getting into the BSC and the xDSU's not was more important than the long term health of the athletic program, historic rivalries, or anything like that.

Joining the sky was the moment I threw UND athletics under the bus.

[SD4ever]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2a/MissouriValleyFootballLocations.png




It's pretty easy to see who the outlier is....also that map is missing USD

NDSU is out there, but SDSU is just a 3 hour drive from NDSU, USD is 4, and UNI is 6 hours on the closest side and 835 miles on the longest side.

YSU is 430 miles and nearly 7 hours to it's CLOSEST school....to put that in perspective Youngstown is 40 miles and an hour closer to the Atlantic freaking Ocean than the nearest MVFC school.


Average YSU travel 750 miles (430 610 616 803 510 953 1,023 1,043 620)
Average NDSU travel 648 miles (1,043 835 692 768 657 450 301 190 898)

NDSU could easily be looked at as every bit out of the footprint - and without SDSU (USD too but they are a tag along at this point sadly) they would be. However, the smartest thing NDSU and SDSU ever did was partner up in the move. It made it viable and attractive to conference options.


NDSU also is big rivals with SDSU, a geographic (and not too long ago D2) rival of USD, and all 3 of those are old NCC rivals with UNI. SDSU, NDSU, WIU, and now USD all share an all sport conference as well. What does YSU actually share with anyone in the MVFC? YSU has much in common as Notre Dame with the ACC - but the same story plays out. Writing is seen on the wall that without a conference tie in/affiliation you're up **** creek when it comes to the playoff format and had to find someone/anyone to latch onto and the old Gateway was desperate at that point with the loss of EIU and scrambling to keep an autobid. At this point that isn't the case.

Sadly? Really.

[taper]

Only because the Big Sky offered a home for football, the SL has no football conference and the MVFC was never an option.

Wait, I'm very confused. You posted a whistle as if saying you should be considered as a Summit member, but now say you don't want it. Where are you going with this?

[darell1976]

the bigsky took uc davis and cal poly as football only schools, no reason they wouldn't take UND.

at the end of the day, UND didn't even try. Being able to make the stupid talking point about UND getting into the BSC and the xDSU's not was more important than the long term health of the athletic program, historic rivalries, or anything like that.

Joining the sky was the moment I threw UND athletics under the bus.

I thought you being a Bison fan was the reason you throw UND athletics under the bus.

[darell1976]

Wait, I'm very confused. You posted a whistle as if saying you should be considered as a Summit member, but now say you don't want it. Where are you going with this?

Read the whole post he said MVFC and Summit member not just a SL member. If it was a total package UND may think about it but not just a SL member ONLY.

[IBleedYellow]

I just wish that our conference for non-football was a little stronger. Oh well.

[frozennorth]

I thought you being a Bison fan was the reason you throw UND athletics under the bus.
Unlike you i actually attended UND. When the athletics department (entire university?) decides to pull it's head out of it's ass I'll be back.


Read the whole post he said MVFC and Summit member not just a SL member. If it was a total package UND may think about it but not just a SL member ONLY.
again, the BSC has 2 football only affiliates already. No reason UND couldn't be a third, but the university is too petty and childish do do something smart that might mean they have to follow NDSU.

[darell1976]

Unlike you i actually attended UND. When the athletics department (entire university?) decides to pull it's head out of it's ass I'll be back.


again, the BSC has 2 football only affiliates already. No reason UND couldn't be a third, but the university is too petty and childish do do something smart that might mean they have to follow NDSU.

Unlike you I have always been a fan of UND, does it matter if I attended it or not? Also the BSC told UND they along with USD and SUU can be full members I don't see where UND can tell them no thanks it's football only. UND held no cards when it was still in the collapsing Great West.

[frozennorth]

I don't see where UND can tell them no thanks it's football only. UND held no cards when it was still in the collapsing Great West.
So how did UC Davis and Cal poly pull it off at the same time UND decided to sink it's athletics program into a crappy conference on the other side of the continent?


Unlike you I have always been a fan of UND, does it matter if I attended it or not?

I support UND doing the right thing for its future, something you obviously don't. You're a fraud and an apologist. Ever heard of 'Walmart Wolverines'? You're a 'walmart UND fan'.

[IBleedYellow]

xpopcornxxpopcornx

[Yotes]

Unlike you I have always been a fan of UND, does it matter if I attended it or not? Also the BSC told UND they along with USD and SUU can be full members I don't see where UND can tell them no thanks it's football only. UND held no cards when it was still in the collapsing Great West.
What prime position was USD in that they could snag Summit and MVFC but UND couldn't? I don't think your AD tried at all to do anything in the university's best interest other than joining a stable conference for all sports. If you can avoid an average road trip of 1150 miles for every single road athletic contest, you do it. Swallowing pride and asking for an invitation to the Summit and MVFC is what your AD if they are looking to serve the best interest of anything other than foolish pride.

[darell1976]

So how did UC Davis and Cal poly pull it off at the same time UND decided to sink it's athletics program into a crappy conference on the other side of the continent?



I support UND doing the right thing for its future, something you obviously don't. You're a fraud and an apologist. Ever heard of 'Walmart Wolverines'? You're a 'walmart UND fan'.

1. Cal Poly and UC Davis got an invite before SUU and the UXD's.
2. Nobody (including the SL) offered UND football a home EXCEPT the Big Sky.
3. A fraud? I was born and raised in Grand Forks, I spent money watching UND sports, buying merchandise and cheering on the team through the bad times and good...what are you? Bandwagon jumper. How long have you supported UND athletics compared to NDSU athletics.

[darell1976]

What prime position was USD in that they could snag Summit and MVFC but UND couldn't? I don't think your AD tried at all to do anything in the university's best interest other than joining a stable conference for all sports. If you can avoid an average road trip of 1150 miles for every single road athletic contest, you do it. Swallowing pride and asking for an invitation to the Summit and MVFC is what your AD if they are looking to serve the best interest of anything other than foolish pride.

USD was a member of the SL before UND due to the nickname issue. Also the MVFC was never interested in UND and struck a deal with USD with geography being a plus for the Yotes.

[FargoBison]

The MVFC only wanted one more Dakota school and USD already being in the Summit had a leg up. A few schools can actually ride a bus to USD as well, almost every school would have to fly to UND.

I do think it would make sense for UND to be like Cal Poly and UCD....have football in the Big Sky and everything else in a compact regional conference but that is just my opinion.

[frozennorth]

A fraud? I was born and raised in Grand Forks, I spent money watching UND sports, buying merchandise and cheering on the team through the bad times and good...what are you? Bandwagon jumper. How long have you supported UND athletics compared to NDSU athletics.
27 years versus 10, totaling 27. I went 3 of the 4 homegames could attend. Again, UND didn't get an offer because they didn't even try. We know this because USD got it done (seriously the MFVC would have taken UND over USD every time) and that it was a complete shock to the administration. They never even considered it because they were too busy dicking around with nickname horse****.

Until UND stops doing stupid **** I will continue to ridicule it.

Blindly slurping down the **** they are feeding you doesn't make you a good fan. You are an enabler and an embarrassment. You're our Lakes. And by 'our' I am not including you.

[JSUBison]

The MVFC only wanted one more Dakota school and USD already being in the Summit had a leg up. A few schools can actually ride a bus to USD as well, almost every school would have to fly to Fargo and take a bus to UND.

I do think it would make sense for UND to be like Cal Poly and UCD....have football in the Big Sky and everything else in a compact regional conference but that is just my opinion.

Just a small fix there.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

the real drop off will be in 2015, not next year. They ran next years defense much of the game yesterday. It was good and will get better. Most of the receiver depth will be back. Hinz and Plankers will be able to step in for gimme and turner without too much of a drop off. Crocket and Bonnet return. Linebacker depth and talent will possibly even improve. I think ET takes the MLB spot next year, as I expect he will have the size knowledge and knowledge for it by then. The secondary is loaded and will be for years. They should be a solid contender next year, possibly the favorite. If the d-line can come close to reloading and wentz is anywhere near as good as advertised, next year might be another lay-up like this year is proving to be.


#49 DeLuca will be the MLB next year. 6-3 and 240. He has the size to play it. I doubt ET will be a MLB.

[darell1976]

The MVFC only wanted one more Dakota school and USD already being in the Summit had a leg up. A few schools can actually ride a bus to USD as well, almost every school would have to fly to UND.

I do think it would make sense for UND to be like Cal Poly and UCD....have football in the Big Sky and everything else in a compact regional conference but that is just my opinion.

True. The MVFC went on record saying they were NEVER interested in UND (despite what Frozennorth thinks), and with USD already in the SL allowed the MVFC to strike a deal which included not making an extra trip to the Dakota's which wouldn't be possible if UND would've joined. UND had a choice join the SL and be Indy for football or join the BSC as a full member and ensure a home for football.

[taper]

There's always the UNO route.:D

[BisonFan02]

There's always the UNO route.:D

YUP! I've suggested it before. Don't forget another fellow hockey rival Denver.

[frozennorth]

True. The MVFC went on record saying they were NEVER interested in UND (despite what Frozennorth thinks), and with USD already in the SL allowed the MVFC to strike a deal which included not making an extra trip to the Dakota's which wouldn't be possible if UND would've joined. UND had a choice join the SL and be Indy for football or join the BSC as a full member and ensure a home for football.
the mvfc wasn't interested in USD either until they tried. Hell, they still aren't. Why do you think so little of UND that they couldn't do the exact same as the dakota's red headed step child? Had UND joined the Summit they would have absolutely gone to bat to put UND in the conference, to think otherwise is stupid. Adding UND would have done nothing to make travel harder on the eastern schools. Currently the three dakota schools play a combined 15 games a year against schools that aren't fellow dakotas or UNI. With the addition of UND, each school could have played the 3 other dakotas and UNI (or WIU, as they are all sports conference mates) every year, and rotated the other 6. That's one more game a year in the dakotas for the eastern schools. Adding UND in addition to USD would have actually helped travel for the eastern non-summit schools.

And before you say say something equally dumb, NDSU, SDSU and WIU absolutely had and have the leverage to get this done.

[frozennorth]

#49 DeLuca will be the MLB next year. 6-3 and 240. He has the size to play it. I doubt ET will be a MLB.

ET will be similar sized with a year more in the system and 3 more years in the program. I think he will be at an advantage next year. Deluca for 2015 absolutely.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

ET will be similar sized with a year more in the system and 3 more years in the program. I think he will be at an advantage next year. Deluca for 2015 absolutely.


Both Klieman and Bohl have said DeLuca is the guy to replace GO.

ET will not be a starter next year.

[mgbison]

Size is overrated. I'd rather have a faster guy in the middle who weights in the mid 220's.

However, if Deluca is fast enough the bigger the better, but any linebacker weighing that much at this level makes you wonder. He looks more like a Kyle Emanuel type of player.

[Houndawg]

27 years versus 10, totaling 27. I went 3 of the 4 homegames could attend. Again, UND didn't get an offer because they didn't even try. We know this because USD got it done (seriously the MFVC would have taken UND over USD every time) and that it was a complete shock to the administration. They never even considered it because they were too busy dicking around with nickname horse****.

Until UND stops doing stupid **** I will continue to ridicule it.

Blindly slurping down the **** they are feeding you doesn't make you a good fan. You are an enabler and an embarrassment. You're our Lakes. And by 'our' I am not including you.


xeekx I love smack, and a good pissing contest, but that ​was uncalled for...

[marenlee]

THREAD DRIFT ALERT: I would like to see UND in the Summit and MVFC. Being across the country keeps me away from UND/NDSU crap so I don't have any deep rooted feelings on the subject. I just want to see a more stable Summit for the future. Oral Roberts back in the conference would be even better. That option is much better than NDSU in the Big Sky IMO.

[BisonFan02]

THREAD DRIFT ALERT: I would like to see UND in the Summit and Pioneer. Being across the country keeps me away from UND/NDSU crap so I don't have any deep rooted feelings on the subject. I just want to see a more stable Summit for the future. Oral Roberts back in the conference would be even better. That option is much better than NDSU in the Big Sky IMO.

FIFY :D

[Yotes]

FIFY :D
Indiana State needs some competition on their level going into the future, UND seems to be that competition.

I too would like to see UND rejoin the Dakotas, but I don't see it happening anytime soon. Maybe once the whole AD is brought to its knees they'll try to make a last ditch effort, but I doubt the MVFC accepts them. Summit would, they're desperate for teams, but football wouldn't find a home easily.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

THREAD DRIFT ALERT: I would like to see UND in the Summit and MVFC. Being across the country keeps me away from UND/NDSU crap so I don't have any deep rooted feelings on the subject. I just want to see a more stable Summit for the future. Oral Roberts back in the conference would be even better. That option is much better than NDSU in the Big Sky IMO.


Add UND for Valley FB and get rid of YSU. Probably will not happen anytime soon.

[darell1976]

Add UND for Valley FB and get rid of YSU. Probably will not happen anytime soon.

That may be the only way UND gets into the MVFC.

[Twentysix]

:\ MVFC should add UND and EIU.... 12 team conference = more playoff bids.

Summit should take on both schools. xblehx

[clenz]

EIU left the MVFC in 96.

What I'd really like to see happen is Drake actually commit to football and join the MVFC

[JayJ79]

EIU left the MVFC in 96.
They probably prefer being the big fish in a smaller pond.

[clenz]

They probably prefer being the big fish in a smaller pond.
I wasn't really around when they moved, but from all of the reading I've done it sounds like that is the case.

[Bisonator]

:\ MVFC should add UND and EIU.... 12 team conference = more playoff bids.

Summit should take on both schools. xblehx

This. Only problem is no round robin in FB but we don't have that now anyway. We could have an east/west split in the MVFC and that would help out both sides actually.

West - NDSU, UND, SDSU, USD, MSU, & UNI?

East - YSU, ISUb, ISUr, EIU, SIU & WIU?

Or something along those lines. Play all 5 division mates and a 3 team schedule cross divisions on a rotating basis.

Summit would have NDSU, UND, SDSU, USD, UNO, DU, EIU, IPFW, IUPUI & WIU.