AGS Poll Open For Week 11

[AGSPoll]

The AGS Poll is now open and accepting ballots for this week's Top 25. Remember to vote early and check your PM's in case there are any duplicates or anything we need to contact you about. If you accidentally vote for the same team twice, leave a line blank, or don't rank all the way to 25, we can't count your vote. Let's make sure they all get counted!

Poll is open until noon Eastern on Monday as per usual so get the votes in.

I want to repeat this...

CHECK YOUR EMAILS AFTER YOU VOTE. Look at the ballot you submitted and also to see if there is a reply to your ballot asking you for a clarification.

[superman7515]

Well Coastal Carolina screwed the pooch for a high seed. Jacksonville State should be in the Top 25. Wofford is pretty much toast. Fordham had some injuries, but I wouldn't be surprised if they took a step back based on people voting on the score.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Well Coastal Carolina screwed the pooch for a high seed. Jacksonville State should be in the Top 25. Wofford is pretty much toast. Fordham had some injuries, but I wouldn't be surprised if they took a step back based on people voting on the score.

All good points and wondering what will happen with voters and MSU and even though I can't see a big step back for Fordham it will be interesting to see what the mood is on them.

[Grizzlies82]

All good points and wondering what will happen with voters and MSU and even though I can't see a big step back for Fordham it will be interesting to see what the mood is on them.

Disclaimer: I haven't seen Fordham play. They are undefeated and at this point in the season that deserves respect.
Though looking at their schedule, and their results, they just don't appear to be a top four team.

[Engineer86]

Bump

[dystopiamembrane]

Jacksonville State should be in the Top 25.Agreed.


Fordham had some injuries, but I wouldn't be surprised if they took a step back based on people voting on the score.Just outside the top 10 seems right.


...wondering what will happen with voters and MSU...Just outside the top 25 seems right.

[Tribal]

Bethune-Cookman is not in my top 25. I don't care what their record is, they haven't played anyone and Norfolk State just humiliated them.

Jacksonville State is a top 25 team.

Chuck South is going to hurt someone's feelings come playoff time.

[dystopiamembrane]

Bethune-Cookman is not in my top 25.Agreed.

[WileECoyote06]

Bethune-Cookman is not in my top 25. I don't care what their record is, they haven't played anyone and Norfolk State just humiliated them.

Jacksonville State is a top 25 team.

Chuck South is going to hurt someone's feelings come playoff time.

Fair enough, but keep in mind Bethune-Cookman defeated TSU team that beat Jacksonville State in their house 31 - 15. They also have an FBS win.

They laid a big fat egg, but let's not act like Norfolk State wasn't capable. They took ODU to the wire, and have two losses to two other top-25 teams: Maine (23-6) and Chuck South (20-12).

They belong somewhere in the 20s, in my opinion.

[dystopiamembrane]

...Bethune-Cookmam…belong[s] somewhere in the 20s, in my opinion.They were flying high in my submissions until that loss to a team ranked in the low to mid 80s.

[WileECoyote06]

Well I can't explain the loss any better than their coaches and players can. But I've seen them and Towson play, and they are as good as Towson. I know blasphemy. . . . lol

Besides, by what other standard can a pollster justify dumping a team that was in the top 15 out of the rankings at this point in the season? Bethune-Cookman lost, but they still have six FCS wins and a FBS win. It's not like this is week three.

[dystopiamembrane]

Bethune-Cookman lost, but they still have six FCS wins and a FBS win. It's not like this is week three.Tennessee State was a good win. The other wins were against mediocre competition at best. FIU is worse than nearly 2/3 of the FCS.

[Tribal]

It's not B-C's fault they play in a weaker conference. If they had their record in the SoCon, I'd have them in my top 25. At some point, people need to recognized that 6-4 in the OVC is [usually] better than 8-2 in the MEAC/SWAC/NEC. SOS matters.

[kalm]

It's not B-C's fault they play in a weaker conference. If they had their record in the SoCon, I'd have them in my top 25. At some point, people need to recognized that 6-4 in the OVC is [usually] better than 8-2 in the MEAC/SWAC/NEC. SOS matters.

Yep. And a 6-4 OVC is usually equal to a 4-6 CAA, MVFC, etc.

[dystopiamembrane]

It's not B-C's fault they play in a weaker conference. If they had their record in the SoCon, I'd have them in my top 25. At some point, people need to recognized that 6-4 in the OVC is [usually] better than 8-2 in the MEAC/SWAC/NEC. SOS matters.I agree with you completely. (In my opinion, 5-6 Missouri State is a better squad than 7-3 Montana State, currently.)
However, if a team has a weaker schedule, they should dominate that schedule to be considered a top team. Losing to Norfolk State was a big deal.

[ElCid]

I agree with you completely. (In my opinion, 5-6 Missouri State is a better squad than 7-3 Montana State, currently.)
However, if a team has a weaker schedule, they should dominate that schedule to be considered a top team. Losing to Norfolk State was a big deal.

No, not in your opinion, because the computer say so. Not to pick apart a 5-6 Missouri St. team (they are a good team, not great) but they lost at home to 5-5 NW St, at 5-5 Murray St, at home against a suspect 5-5 Cent Ark team, and lost at a middling 4-6 SD team. In other words they blew their OOC schedule and did not win against an average MVFC team. The only thing giving them a SOS for the computer to chew on is that they had a MVFC schedule which benefited from some of its teams getting some landmark victories. Does this mean that they are playoff material? No, it does not.

[WM2001]

Lower-tier FCS conferences are in the same boat as the lower-tier FBS conferences. Ask Boise State what a one loss record (that one loss was by one point) got them. MAACO Bowl Las Vegas.

[WileECoyote06]

Lower-tier FCS conferences are in the same boat as the lower-tier FBS conferences. Ask Boise State what a one loss record (that one loss was by one point) got them. MAACO Bowl Las Vegas.

Not a good comparison because for the most part, FBS and FCS don't have the same post-season philosophy. If Boise State was bringing 45,000 fans along with them, they'd be going to the Orange/Fiesta/Rose/Sugar Bowl every year they qualify.

But if you wish to use BCS style ratings to make a determination about Bethune Cookman, Massey's BCS ratings has them at #21 in the FCS. Sagarin has them at #18.


They belong somewhere in the 20s, in my opinion.

Oh well. . .hmmm. .looka there.

Oh, and Massey's composite has them at #18.

[Humble Steward]

Bethune-Cookman is not in my top 25. I don't care what their record is, they haven't played anyone and Norfolk State just humiliated them.

Jacksonville State is a top 25 team.

Chuck South is going to hurt someone's feelings come playoff time.

Honestly, rank us where you like, but no team should fall from ranked 13th to not being ranked. Losing by 3 is humiliated? We came out flat and overlooked NSU and paid the price. But on any given Saturday you can be upset. I think this will work in our favor in the end and was a good wake up call. Your justification for not ranking BCU is pretty weak.

[Humble Steward]

It's not B-C's fault they play in a weaker conference. If they had their record in the SoCon, I'd have them in my top 25. At some point, people need to recognized that 6-4 in the OVC is [usually] better than 8-2 in the MEAC/SWAC/NEC. SOS matters.

Unfortunately your rationale doesn't work in this scenario because we won our game against an OVC team. Our SOS is not in question this season. Sorry we played TSU, FIU, FSU, and had won 18 straight MEAC games up until Saturday. We were taking care of business. Like I said, one game doesn't measure our team and your justification is still pretty weak. On any given Saturday you can get upset, it's how you respond.

[Humble Steward]

I agree with you completely. (In my opinion, 5-6 Missouri State is a better squad than 7-3 Montana State, currently.)
However, if a team has a weaker schedule, they should dominate that schedule to be considered a top team. Losing to Norfolk State was a big deal.

Losing one game is big deal? I agree we should have won this game, however we had won 18 straight conference games up until this game. We came out flat and NSU took advantage of that. One game and now the bottom has fell out. Rank us where you like, but that is pretty weak rationale for a team that was flying high in your rankings and having one slip up. Good wake up call for BCU. Let's see how they respond.

[dystopiamembrane]

No, not in your opinion, because the computer say so.It's the same thing, ElCid. I cannot make accurate, unbiased decisions about the data set that is a college football season. I'm not intelligent enough, so I rely on a ranking system. What I have concluded is that masseyratings.com may not be the best choice, but it's the only one that is consistently updated by the AGS submission deadline. So, rock and a hard place. Would it be better, if I did not participate in this forum?

And, please try to keep your feelings about how a person decides their opinions to yourself. You wrote this statement to minimize my opinions. I could say something about yours, but I don't.

[dystopiamembrane]

Losing one game is big deal? I agree we should have won this game, however we had won 18 straight conference games up until this game. We came out flat and NSU took advantage of that. One game and now the bottom has fell out. Rank us where you like, but that is pretty weak rationale for a team that was flying high in your rankings and having one slip up. Good wake up call for BCU. Let's see how they respond.It wasn't a slip-up. Understand that all of us need to rely on scores and stats to make our submissions. How would you treat a team that you believed was in the top 10, but lost to a team in the 80s? What if Ohio State lost to Arkansas State next weekend. Would you still rank them?

[Humble Steward]

It wasn't a slip-up. Understand that all of us need to rely on scores and stats to make our submissions. How would you treat a team that you believed was in the top 10, but lost to a team in the 80s? What if Ohio State lost to Arkansas State next weekend. Would you still rank them?

Yes, If Ohio State lost to Arkansas State they would fall, but still be ranked. They are ranked 3rd and would fall to around 10 or 11. Prime example, Miami was ranked 12th last week before they lost to unranked Virginia Tech and they fell to 23 in the polls. Not understanding your justification after one loss. However, it's just a poll, the real question is how does BCU respond. Especially since they hadn't lost a MEAC game since early 2011.

[BisonFan02]

Yes, If Ohio State lost to Arkansas State they would fall, but still be ranked. They are ranked 3rd and would fall to around 10 or 11. Prime example, Miami was ranked 12th last week before they lost to unranked Virginia Tech and they fell to 23 in the polls. Not understanding your justification after one loss. However, it's just a poll, the real question is how does BCU respond. Especially since they hadn't lost a MEAC game since early 2011.

Didn't Michigan go from 5th to unranked after losing to App St.?

[WileECoyote06]

Didn't Michigan go from 5th to unranked after losing to App St.?

Michigan and App. State are in two different divisions. Norfolk, is a conference mate of BCU. Also that was the opening game of that season. That comparison makes little sense.

[dystopiamembrane]

Yes, If Ohio State lost to Arkansas State they would fall, but still be ranked. They are ranked 3rd and would fall to around 10 or 11. Prime example, Miami was ranked 12th last week before they lost to unranked Virginia Tech and they fell to 23 in the polls. Not understanding your justification after one loss. However, it's just a poll, the real question is how does BCU respond. Especially since they hadn't lost a MEAC game since early 2011.I, for one, am excited for them. I've only seen the school name in the papers and the score sheets, know nothing more about them. Are they an HBCU?

Just looked them up. Daytona Beach, FL? I always thought they were in the South.
No. 20 in Bowling!

[dystopiamembrane]

Michigan and App. State are in two different divisions. Norfolk, is a conference mate of BCU. Also that was the opening game of that season. That comparison makes little sense.Nothing makes sense anymore. It's the problem, in my opinion, with not having a single system for ranking teams. There should be no conjecture.

[HensRock]

I've been slowly dropping Fordham each week in my ballot. They may have had some injuries this week, but they have not been underwhelming on the score boards for several weeks now. Let's face it, they are ranked because they are undefeated. With that schedule, they cannot afford a single slip up.

EDIT: Whoops. Of course, I meant they HAVE been underwhelming on the scoreboards. Carry on....

[dystopiamembrane]

Yes, If Ohio State lost to Arkansas State they would fall, but still be ranked. They are ranked 3rd and would fall to around 10 or 11. Prime example, Miami was ranked 12th last week before they lost to unranked Virginia Tech and they fell to 23 in the polls. Not understanding your justification after one loss. However, it's just a poll, the real question is how does BCU respond. Especially since they hadn't lost a MEAC game since early 2011.Virginia Tech is not Arkansas State.

[dystopiamembrane]

I've been slowly dropping Fordham each week in my ballot. They may have had some injuries this week, but they have not been underwhelming on the score boards for several weeks now. Let's face it, they are ranked because they are undefeated. With that schedule, they cannot afford a single slip up.Where do you have them now?

[HensRock]

Losing one game is big deal? I agree we should have won this game, however we had won 18 straight conference games up until this game. We came out flat and NSU took advantage of that. One game and now the bottom has fell out. Rank us where you like, but that is pretty weak rationale for a team that was flying high in your rankings and having one slip up. Good wake up call for BCU. Let's see how they respond.

B-CU is another that has been dropping on my ballot over the past several weeks. Although they were winning, they were not impressing me. With SC State and Hampton having down years, the MEAC looks particularly weak this year, so I think their margin for error is razor thin. I think this slip-up against the Spartans will hurt.

[JMUNJ08]

It wasn't a slip-up. Understand that all of us need to rely on scores and stats to make our submissions. How would you treat a team that you believed was in the top 10, but lost to a team in the 80s? What if Ohio State lost to Arkansas State next weekend. Would you still rank them?

So my question is did you rank Youngstown this week? They lost to a team that was 0-5 in the MVFC and have shown nothing since September. Since many people probably had YSU only 3-5 places ahead of BCU, I figure this is a more fair comparison.

[HensRock]

Where do you have them now?

I'll gladly let you know once this week's poll is announced.

[ElCid]

It's the same thing, ElCid. I cannot make accurate, unbiased decisions about the data set that is a college football season. I'm not intelligent enough, so I rely on a ranking system. What I have concluded is that masseyratings.com may not be the best choice, but it's the only one that is consistently updated by the AGS submission deadline. So, rock and a hard place. Would it be better, if I did not participate in this forum?

And, please try to keep your feelings about how a person decides their opinions to yourself. You wrote this statement to minimize my opinions. I could say something about yours, but I don't.

No, I was not trying to minimize your opinion, I was trying to point out that your method is simply using a computer, which is not "your" opinion at all. It's simply using someone else's opinion of what should be weighted in determining a teams performance. You may agree with that method (that is why you obviously use it), but it is not yours. For myself, as you know, I trust people more.

[dystopiamembrane]

So my question is did you rank Youngstown this week? They lost to a team that was 0-5 in the MVFC and have shown nothing since September. Since many people probably had YSU only 3-5 places ahead of BCU, I figure this is a more fair comparison.Yes, I ranked them. In my opinion, Northern Iowa is a top 20 team. So, it's more similar to the Virginia tech example stated earlier.

[dystopiamembrane]

No, I was not trying to minimize your opinion, I was trying to point out that your method is simply using a computer, which is not "your" opinion at all. It's simply using someone else's opinion of what should be weighted in determining a teams performance. You may agree with that method (that is why you obviously use it), but it is not yours. For myself, as you know, I trust people more.I take input from an outside source to form an opinion. That opinion is mine. Even in the computer that is the military people have their own opinions. Why do you deny me mine?
I'll get one someday. My mother said I would.

[dystopiamembrane]

I'll gladly let you know once this week's poll is announced.OOooo a present!

[WileECoyote06]

Nothing makes sense anymore. It's the problem, in my opinion, with not having a single system for ranking teams. There should be no conjecture.

That's the nature of the beast and will never be solved. It can't be solved because there are too many variables that cannot be covered by a formula. I like Massey's ratings and think he offers the best computer-based option, but there are other human-related factors that should be considered when ranking as well.

[JMUNJ08]

Yes, I ranked them. In my opinion, Northern Iowa is a top 20 team. So, it's more similar to the Virginia tech example stated earlier.

So, 1-5 in conference is top 20 in the country? Basically, the conference record states they are 6th at best within the MVFC. So, therefore, there are only 14 other teams in the whole country better than a completely banged up UNI team? I think this is where you cannot go based on the computer rankings because some things just look silly when you really lay them all out on paper in November...

[dystopiamembrane]

That's the nature of the beast and will never be solved. It can't be solved because there are too many variables that cannot be covered by a formula. I like Massey's ratings and think he offers the best computer-based option, but there are other human-related factors that should be considered when ranking as well.Which human-related factors?

[Humble Steward]

B-CU is another that has been dropping on my ballot over the past several weeks. Although they were winning, they were not impressing me. With SC State and Hampton having down years, the MEAC looks particularly weak this year, so I think their margin for error is razor thin. I think this slip-up against the Spartans will hurt.

So with the rationale that the MEAC has been weak this year and up until this game we had won 18 straight conference games and won our OOC games (TSU, FIU), why was BCU dropping in your poll. That shows we were dominating the conference and capable of winning OOC games on the road.

[ElCid]

I take input from an outside source to form an opinion. That opinion is mine. Even in the computer that is the military people have their own opinions. Why do you deny me mine?
I'll get one someday. My mother said I would.

It was a fine point and I probably did not make it well. Not denying you anything. Do you take the computer rankings and use them straight up or do you fine tune using your noggin? If it is the later then I guess it is your opinion. If it is the former, then, well, you know......

[dystopiamembrane]

So, 1-5 in conference is top 20 in the country?Conferences are arbitrary associations.


...a completely banged up UNI team?How does this factor into your calculations?


I think this is where you cannot go based on the computer rankings because some things just look silly when you really lay them all out on paper in November…It does look silly. I'll talk to Ken.

[dystopiamembrane]

Northern Iowa…top 20?

Beat Iowa State who is better than all but about 5 or 6 FCS schools.
Beat McNeese State.
Lost to NDSU by 1 point.
Lost to SIU in OT.
Lost to SDSU in OT
Beat YSU.


Sat2013-08-31
at
Iowa St (http://masseyratings.com/team.php?t=3554&s=199231)
100(1-8)
W (http://masseyratings.com/game.php?gid=435814246)
28
20



Sat2013-09-07

Drake (http://masseyratings.com/team.php?t=2236&s=199231)
335(6-4)
W (http://masseyratings.com/game.php?gid=435815161)
45
14



Sat2013-09-21
at
N Colorado (http://masseyratings.com/team.php?t=5625&s=199231)
358(1-9)
W (http://masseyratings.com/game.php?gid=435815251)
26
7



Sat2013-09-28

McNeese St (http://masseyratings.com/team.php?t=4613&s=199231)
104(8-2)
W (http://masseyratings.com/game.php?gid=435815319)
41
6



Sat2013-10-05
at
N Dakota St (http://masseyratings.com/team.php?t=5545&s=199231)
32(9-0)
L (http://masseyratings.com/game.php?gid=435815383)
23
24



Sat2013-10-12

S Illinois (http://masseyratings.com/team.php?t=7339&s=199231)
124(5-5)
L (http://masseyratings.com/game.php?gid=435815439)OT
17
24



Sat2013-10-19

South Dakota (http://masseyratings.com/team.php?t=7262&s=199231)
180(4-6)
L (http://masseyratings.com/game.php?gid=435815511)2 OT
31
38



Sat2013-10-26
at
S Dakota St (http://masseyratings.com/team.php?t=7268&s=199231)
122(6-4)
L (http://masseyratings.com/game.php?gid=435815555)2 OT
34
37



Sat2013-11-02
at
Illinois St (http://masseyratings.com/team.php?t=3449&s=199231)
136(5-5)
L (http://masseyratings.com/game.php?gid=435815636)
3
13



Sat2013-11-09

Youngstown St (http://masseyratings.com/team.php?t=9217&s=199231)
103(8-2)
W (http://masseyratings.com/game.php?gid=435815688)
22
20

[JMUNJ08]

Conferences are arbitrary associations.

How does this factor into your calculations?

[/COLOR]It does look silly. I'll talk to Ken.[/COLOR]




Conferences are aribtrary, but, there are another 110 or so teams out there. So while UNI cannot be in the top half of their own conference, they are better than almost 90% of those outside of it?

Also, being banged up means they aren't the same team. Replay those games missing all the players UNI currently is and you'd have different results for a few (not just the AGS scenario).

Lastly, top 20 through 9-10 games in a season usually means you can with more than 1/2 of them... Just when you have so many teams, W's have to count more at some point than level of competition solely. Good example, Florida probably has a crazy SOS and such, but with their injuries, are sitting at 4-5. Can computers give so much love that they should be a ranked team?

[dystopiamembrane]

It was a fine point and I probably did not make it well. Not denying you anything. Do you take the computer rankings and use them straight up or do you fine tune using your noggin? If it is the later then I guess it is your opinion. If it is the former, then, well, you know......If Amherst shows up in the list, I remove them.

[WileECoyote06]

B-CU is another that has been dropping on my ballot over the past several weeks. Although they were winning, they were not impressing me. With SC State and Hampton having down years, the MEAC looks particularly weak this year, so I think their margin for error is razor thin. I think this slip-up against the Spartans will hurt.

SCSU is right about where they should be; in second place with losses to two ranked teams. They played both tough. Hampton has surged back to 4-2 in conference but they started 0-5. I don't know what turned the lights on for them, but Hampton has been very inconsistent ever since Taylor left.

The MEAC looks weak every year because we have some very, very bad teams. Also another interesting fact, the MEAC went 5 - 18 against FCS OOC. Of those 18 losses, 11 were against teams currently in contention for the playoffs. Three were against teams transitioning to FBS (ODU, Ga. Southern). So the MEAC has four bad losses against FCS teams. Maybe we need to work on our scheduling. . . .

[JMUNJ08]

Northern Iowa…top 20?

Beat Iowa State who is better than all but about 5 or 6 FCS schools.
Beat McNeese State.
Lost to NDSU by 1 point.
Lost to SIU in OT.
Lost to SDSU in OT
Beat YSU.


Sat2013-08-31

at

Iowa St (http://masseyratings.com/team.php?t=3554&s=199231)

100(1-8)

W (http://masseyratings.com/game.php?gid=435814246)

28

20




Sat2013-09-07


Drake (http://masseyratings.com/team.php?t=2236&s=199231)

335(6-4)

W (http://masseyratings.com/game.php?gid=435815161)

45

14




Sat2013-09-21

at

N Colorado (http://masseyratings.com/team.php?t=5625&s=199231)

358(1-9)

W (http://masseyratings.com/game.php?gid=435815251)

26

7




Sat2013-09-28


McNeese St (http://masseyratings.com/team.php?t=4613&s=199231)

104(8-2)

W (http://masseyratings.com/game.php?gid=435815319)

41

6




Sat2013-10-05

at

N Dakota St (http://masseyratings.com/team.php?t=5545&s=199231)

32(9-0)

L (http://masseyratings.com/game.php?gid=435815383)

23

24




Sat2013-10-12


S Illinois (http://masseyratings.com/team.php?t=7339&s=199231)

124(5-5)

L (http://masseyratings.com/game.php?gid=435815439)OT

17

24




Sat2013-10-19


South Dakota (http://masseyratings.com/team.php?t=7262&s=199231)

180(4-6)

L (http://masseyratings.com/game.php?gid=435815511)2 OT

31

38




Sat2013-10-26

at

S Dakota St (http://masseyratings.com/team.php?t=7268&s=199231)

122(6-4)

L (http://masseyratings.com/game.php?gid=435815555)2 OT

34

37




Sat2013-11-02

at

Illinois St (http://masseyratings.com/team.php?t=3449&s=199231)

136(5-5)

L (http://masseyratings.com/game.php?gid=435815636)

3

13




Sat2013-11-09


Youngstown St (http://masseyratings.com/team.php?t=9217&s=199231)

103(8-2)

W (http://masseyratings.com/game.php?gid=435815688)

22

20





I'll rest my case after this:
- 1/2 of your arguement is based off of losses to good teams
- Besides NDSU, the teams they lost to are .500 themselves
- 2 of the 3 'good wins' were in September, before the injuries
- YSU is finally playing some of the better MVFC teams, that 8-2 may be inflated
- The Cyclones are terrible. If you are talking FIU down, they should be having a tea party together...

[WileECoyote06]

Which human-related factors?

human and environmental factors:

Rivalry games, injuries, weather, turnovers, coaching mistakes, field condition, player attitudes, crowd participation, referees, etc.

[dystopiamembrane]

Conferences are aribtrary, but, there are another 110 or so teams out there. So while UNI cannot be in the top half of their own conference, they are better than almost 90% of those outside of it? Yes, the MVFC is the strongest group of teams in the subdivision.


Also, being banged up means they aren't the same team. Replay those games missing all the players UNI currently is and you'd have different results for a few (not just the AGS scenario).The season is the season and a team is a team. Injuries are part of the drama. If a team earns it on the field one week and then loses the entire team to a localized zombie attack, say, I'd still consider whichever players replace them as the same team until they prove otherwise.


Lastly, top 20 through 9-10 games in a season usually means you can with more than 1/2 of them... Just when you have so many teams, W's have to count more at some point than level of competition solely. Good example, Florida probably has a crazy SOS and such, but with their injuries, are sitting at 4-5. Can computers give so much love that they should be a ranked team?See my post with UNI scores above and let me know if you still think the love is unwarranted.

[dystopiamembrane]

human and environmental factors:

Rivalry games, injuries, weather, turnovers, coaching mistakes, field condition, player attitudes, crowd participation, referees, etc.Most of these could be factored into an algorithm. Some of them seem strange to use as decisions for ranking…coaching mistakes, player attitudes??

[JMUNJ08]

Yes, the MVFC is the strongest group of teams in the subdivision.

The season is the season and a team is a team. Injuries are part of the drama. If a team earns it on the field one week and then loses the entire team to a localized zombie attack, say, I'd still consider whichever players replace them as the same team until they prove otherwise.

See my post with UNI scores above and let me know if you still think the love is unwarranted.

I'm very comfortable. Losing in overtime to the top 12 teams in the country to be 0-12 doesn't make someone a top 20 team... Also, UNI did prove otherwise, it was a 5 game losing streak to the #1 team in the country and a bunch of .500 teams...

[dystopiamembrane]

I'll rest my case after this:
- 1/2 of your arguement is based off of losses to good teams ----And?
- Besides NDSU, the teams they lost to are .500 themselves ----Do you feel the ones I've listed are not strong teams?
- 2 of the 3 'good wins' were in September, before the injuries ----see my injury argument above
- YSU is finally playing some of the better MVFC teams, that 8-2 may be inflated ----to be seen
- The Cyclones are terrible. If you are talking FIU down, they should be having a tea party together.----FIU is leaps and bounds worse than ISU.

[dystopiamembrane]

Losing in overtime to the top 12 teams in the country to be 0-12 doesn't make someone a top 20 team.We disagree on this.

[JMUNJ08]

We disagree on this.

Then agree to disagree at this point :)

[ElCid]

Most of these could be factored into an algorithm. Some of them seem strange to use as decisions for ranking…coaching mistakes, player attitudes??

Everything under the sun can be factored into an algorithm. The trick is to get it weighted correctly. How do you factor in weather? One point for drizzle, two for showers, or three for a deluge (pretty close I guess if you are a Wofford fan arguing about why they lost to G-W). You can always account for every single factor and place it in an equation. The problem is, once these factors begin to interact with each other, some get magnified, others disappear. When that happens, you need to adjust and these adjustment could go on infinitum.

I think what he was alluding to in regard to coaching mistakes and how to accounting for it in a computer ranking, was what if a coach makes a mistake and losses the game. A game that should have been won. How do you account for that? I will give you a perfect example, painful though it is. In our first game of the year this year, we played Chuck South. We handled them easily. Only problem was we lost. Why? Some say a coaching mistake. I am neutral. The mistake was, we had new punt receiver muff a punt deep just before half. Chuck South scored on the short field. OK, everyone makes mistakes, but the coach did not correct this and it may be a mistake. He put him in again, and the dude muffed another one deep again at the end of the third at almost the same spot and gave them the short field again for a score. Now, are we to assume that the coach will continue to make the same or similar mistakes all year, or will he correct it the next game? We did get a new punt returner. And does that 32-29 score get weighted to take into account this silly one time mistake in judgment? Should it? Now, they are having a good season this year no doubt, but I also have no doubt we handled them that day except for this possible error in judgment and we would handle them easily if played again today. But the computer shows them a slight favorite. Maybe it should, we did get beat. This is just one example of what would need to be put into any algorithm. Using just scores is far too sloppy. And while I cannot account for every single variable myself, the computer cannot either, yet.

[HensRock]

OOooo a present!

I dropped them from 12 to 16 on my current ballot.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

I'll gladly let you know once this week's poll is announced.

One of the best posts in the thread right here.

[chattownmocs]

We disagree on this.

Then you don't follow college football.

[dystopiamembrane]

Then you don't follow college football.You're wrong, sir. I have been following it longer than you've been alive.
Keep your eyes on those Mocs. I'm sure they'll win it all soon.

[Cocky]

Virginia Tech is not Arkansas State.
You are correct, Va Tech sucks.

[Cocky]

Northern Iowa…top 20?

Beat Iowa State who is better than all but about 5 or 6 FCS schools.
Beat McNeese State.
Lost to NDSU by 1 point.
Lost to SIU in OT.
Lost to SDSU in OT
Beat YSU.


Sat2013-08-31
at
Iowa St (http://masseyratings.com/team.php?t=3554&s=199231)
100(1-8)
W (http://masseyratings.com/game.php?gid=435814246)
28
20



Sat2013-09-07

Drake (http://masseyratings.com/team.php?t=2236&s=199231)
335(6-4)
W (http://masseyratings.com/game.php?gid=435815161)
45
14



Sat2013-09-21
at
N Colorado (http://masseyratings.com/team.php?t=5625&s=199231)
358(1-9)
W (http://masseyratings.com/game.php?gid=435815251)
26
7



Sat2013-09-28

McNeese St (http://masseyratings.com/team.php?t=4613&s=199231)
104(8-2)
W (http://masseyratings.com/game.php?gid=435815319)
41
6



Sat2013-10-05
at
N Dakota St (http://masseyratings.com/team.php?t=5545&s=199231)
32(9-0)
L (http://masseyratings.com/game.php?gid=435815383)
23
24



Sat2013-10-12

S Illinois (http://masseyratings.com/team.php?t=7339&s=199231)
124(5-5)
L (http://masseyratings.com/game.php?gid=435815439)OT
17
24



Sat2013-10-19

South Dakota (http://masseyratings.com/team.php?t=7262&s=199231)
180(4-6)
L (http://masseyratings.com/game.php?gid=435815511)2 OT
31
38



Sat2013-10-26
at
S Dakota St (http://masseyratings.com/team.php?t=7268&s=199231)
122(6-4)
L (http://masseyratings.com/game.php?gid=435815555)2 OT
34
37



Sat2013-11-02
at
Illinois St (http://masseyratings.com/team.php?t=3449&s=199231)
136(5-5)
L (http://masseyratings.com/game.php?gid=435815636)
3
13



Sat2013-11-09

Youngstown St (http://masseyratings.com/team.php?t=9217&s=199231)
103(8-2)
W (http://masseyratings.com/game.php?gid=435815688)
22
20



The only FBS school Iowa State would be a favorite against is GSU. Iowa State is not a top ten FCS school.