Conference Showdown! Big Fluffy O vs. MVC D

[kalm]

Stealing from a couple of on-going threads where the meme keeps coming up that the MVFC is a physical conference where defense is played while no defense is played in the BSC, I decided to review.


Going back to the 2010 season, here's the BSC v. MVFC matchups I recall:


(Acknowledging that not all of these BSC teams were members in 2010?...but for sake of argument...)


2010:
USD 27 UND 17
SDSU 21 UND 0
Davis 17 USD 13
Poly 38 USD 24
NDSU 42 MSU 17
EWU 38 NDSU 31


2011:


Poly 48 SDSU 14
USD 27 Davis 24
USD 31 EWU 17
Poly 24 USD 14
UM 48 UNI 10
SDSU 29 SUU 28
UNI 34 SUU 21
UND 38 USD 37


2012:


SDSU 12 Davis 8
EWU 51 ISU 35


2013:


UNI 26 UNC 7
NAU 22 USD 16
SDSU 35 UND 28


MVFC leads the series 10-8


Points over that stretch: BSC 439 MVFC 402


Average pts/game: MVFC 21.2. BSC 23.1


Feel free to fill in any games I've missed.


It's interesting how many times the two conferences have met and how evenly matched they are. Looks like the BSC plays slightly better D though...

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

From ncaafootball as of Nov 2nd:


Total Defense:

Missouri Valley:

NDSU #1
WIU #12
USD #14
UNI #22
MSU #34
In St #45
Ill St #48
SIU #66
YSU #73
SDSU #86



Big Sky:

SUU #33
MSU #38
Cal Poly #40
NAU #41
Davis #69
Griz #70
PSU #72
UNC #81
Sac #83
UND #92
EWU #93
ISU #99
Weber #120

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

Missouri Valley teams have a 40th ranked defense on average for all teams....Big Sky 72nd ranked on ave for all teams.

xrolleyesx

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

EWU has the #93rd ranked defense....xlolx

That is why come playoffs I'll take the Bison over any Big Sky team.

[kalm]

Missouri Valley teams have a 40th ranked defense on average for all teams....Big Sky 72nd ranked on ave for all teams.

xrolleyesx

That's why the h2h is more interesting...different OOC schedules and one could make a case that the MVFC defensive stats are better because there's not much offense played in-conference.

[darell1976]

From ncaafootball as of Nov 2nd:


Total Defense:

Missouri Valley:

NDSU #1
WIU #12
USD #14
UNI #22
MSU #34
In St #45
Ill St #48
SIU #66
YSU #73
SDSU #86



Big Sky:

SUU #33
MSU #38
Cal Poly #40
NAU #41
Davis #69
Griz #70
PSU #72
UNC #81
Sac #83
UND #92
EWU #93
ISU #99
Weber #120

There are 3 teams in our conference with a worse defense than us....HOLY CRAP!!!!

[ValleyTalk]

YSU just put up 38 on the #14 USD defense.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

That's why the h2h is more interesting...different OOC schedules and one could make a case that the MVFC defensive stats are better because there's not much offense played in-conference.


EWU averages 529 on offense but gives up 434....not even 100 yards difference.

NDSU averages 429 on offense and gives up 245....almost 200 yards less than EWU gives up per game.

EWU has a high octane offense but mediocre defense. NDSU has a good offense and a very good defense.......by the stats so far this season.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

There are 3 teams in our conference with a worse defense than us....HOLY CRAP!!!!


UND needs a bigger RB to pound the ball. No running game has killed UND this year.

The defense is getting better but Muss needs to find a RB and a better O-Line.

[kalm]

EWU averages 529 on offense but gives up 434....not even 100 yards difference.

NDSU averages 429 on offense and gives up 245....almost 200 yards less than EWU gives up per game.

EWU has a high octane offense but mediocre defense. NDSU has a good offense and a very good defense.......by the stats so far this season.

Yes...but you're missing the point here. No need to get defensive.

[IBleedYellow]

UND has a better defense than EWU? o.O

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

Yes...but you're missing the point here. No need to get defensive.


I'm not. You said in the 1st post that the Big Sky plays slightly better defense but it looks like the opposite conference wide according to the stats.

[SeattleGriz]

I'm not. You said in the 1st post that the Big Sky plays slightly better defense but it looks like the opposite conference wide according to the stats.

Good gravy man! He was talking head to head, not conference stats.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

Good gravy man! He was talking head to head, not conference stats.


I know he is talking about head-to-head.

Still doesn't change the fact the Valley plays better defense.

xnodx

[kalm]

Good gravy man! He was talking head to head, not conference stats.

Yes, and in general over the course of several years, and not just in comparing EWU and NDSU...jeebus.xeyebrowx

[SeattleGriz]

I know he is talking about head-to-head.

Still doesn't change the fact the Valley plays better defense.

xnodx

How can you compare conference stats vs head to head? Two different leagues with two different styles. The only REAL comparison is head to head.

[SeattleGriz]

Here is what I am talking about. In 2011, UNI gave up 19 pts per game and Montana gave up 19.9. Montana held UNI to 9 below their average and UNI gave up 29 points OVER their average.

How did Montana beat them this way:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GsAaLzQwS74
By the way, I remember reading on PantherNation how fast Montana looked to UNI.

Comparing conference stats to head to head is like comparing apples to oranges.

[kalm]

I know he is talking about head-to-head.

Still doesn't change the fact the Valley plays better defense.

xnodx

NDSU does, but not the conference as a whole over the last few years which I stated and proved in my original post. If I wanted to be pissy about it like you I'd add that NDSU's defensive stats have been padded by the ****ty offenses they face week in and week out in the MVFC.


But I won't because you've won back to back's and are once again the team to beat. That's terrific and why would I want to tarnish all of that? That would be MVFC fan type tactics which I'm clearly trying to rise above here.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

How can you compare conference stats vs head to head? Two different leagues with two different styles. The only REAL comparison is head to head.


I'm comparing TOTAL DEFENSE of all teams in each conference.

Fine, kalm states that in head to head that Big Sky teams have faired better defensively compared to Valley schools in matchups between schools. Different styles doesn't mean squat in total stats in the FCS stats standings. Who gives up the most yards....who gives up the least.

For a conference the Valley ranks 40th on average the Big Sky 72nd on average for total defense.....this year so far. Fine, cherry pick the intra-conference matchups and get a number where the Big Sky has alittle better defensive stat in points given up in the head to head match ups.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

NDSU does, but not the conference as a whole over the last few years which I stated and proved in my original post. If I wanted to be pissy about it like you I'd add that NDSU's defensive stats have been padded by the ****ty offenses they face week in and week out in the MVFC.


But I won't because you've won back to back's and are once again the team to beat. That's terrific and why would I want to tarnish all of that? That would be MVFC fan type tactics which I'm clearly trying to rise above here.



Really?

****ty offenses in the Valley?

Well, then EWU's high scoring offense is because of all the ****ty defenses in the Sky.

[SeattleGriz]

I'm comparing TOTAL DEFENSE of all teams in each conference.

Fine, kalm states that in head to head that Big Sky teams have faired better defensively compared to Valley schools in matchups between schools. Different styles doesn't mean squat in total stats in the FCS stats standings. Who gives up the most yards....who gives up the least.

For a conference the Valley ranks 40th on average the Big Sky 72nd on average for total defense.....this year so far. Fine, cherry pick the intra-conference matchups and get a number where the Big Sky has alittle better defensive stat in points given up in the head to head match ups.

As they should. Everyone knows the MVC plays ball control smashmouth ball and they don't SCORE as much as the Big Sky. Their defensive conference stats SHOULD be better.

By the way, how can a conference rank 40th and 72nd? How many conferences do we have at the FCS level?

[kalm]

Really?

****ty offenses in the Valley?

Well, then EWU's high scoring offense is because of all the ****ty defenses in the Sky.

That's the crux of the argument. Glad you're showing signs of catching on now. Keep moving forward... I haven't given up on ya!

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

As they should. Everyone knows the MVC plays ball control smashmouth ball and they don't SCORE as much as the Big Sky. Their defensive conference stats SHOULD be better.


Well come playoffs I'll take the team that plays better defense. NDSU gives up 12.5/game. EWU gives up 28/game and the Griz 23/game

As for offense....both EWU and Montana average 39.9 points/game.....NDSU averages 37.9/game.

[MTfan4life]

That's the crux of the argument. Glad you're showing signs of catching on now. Keep moving forward... I haven't given up on ya!

There's a reason why football moves a little slower over here! ;) haha

[kalm]

Well come playoffs I'll take the team that plays better defense. NDSU gives up 12.5/game. EWU gives up 28/game and the Griz 23/game

As for offense....both EWU and Montana average 39.9 points/game.....NDSU averages 37.9/game.


That again has very little to do with the point of the thread...don't lose focus now...

[kalm]

There's a reason why football moves a little slower over here! ;) haha

That'll be enough outta you!:D

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

That again has very little to do with the point of the thread...don't lose focus now...


Classic. This is like having a conversation with mplsbison....xlolx


So, you're cherry picking intra-conference matchups between conferences then painting a broad stroke on how you think they compare?

[kalm]

BTW, 1/2 my family came from Minot and Fergus Falls. I speak the language!

[taper]

The 2 conferences don't have a true round robin with each other so head to head can only compare teams, not conferences. Did you run the numbers based on if a matchup was against the top of one conference and the bottom of the other?

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

BTW, 1/2 my family came from Minot and Fergus Falls. I speak the language!


The bad DNA is obviously the more dominant....xlolx

[kalm]

Classic. This is like having a conversation with mplsbison....xlolx


So, you're cherry picking intra-conference matchups between conferences then painting a broad stroke on how you think they compare?

Christ on a crutch, man you were starting to show some signs of life too. Go back and read the first post again. I'm truly hoping that will help you out....

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

Christ on a crutch, man you were starting to show some signs of life too. Go back and read the first post again. I'm truly hoping that will help you out....


Oh boy........Big Sky and Valley teams are pretty evenly matched because of a few head to head matchups and the total points scored are pretty close.....

[kalm]

The 2 conferences don't have a true round robin with each other so head to head can only compare teams, not conferences. Did you run the numbers based on if a matchup was against the top of one conference and the bottom of the other?

True, and in all honesty, it's a bit skewed as the Bison haven't played a BSC opponent since 2010. But I think the sample size along with the fact that many of the BSC losses involved UND, SUU, and Davis in away games provides some balance and still makes the point valid.

[kalm]

Oh boy........Big Sky and Valley teams are pretty evenly matched because of a few head to head matchups and the total points scored are pretty close.....

19 games over three years, many of which were playoff games. You've won back to back NC's, why the inferiority complex? Perhaps you're unaware of the meme's I referenced that prompted this thread?

Relax, man. Bask in the glory...

[SeattleGriz]

19 games over three years, many of which were playoff games. You've won back to back NC's, why the inferiority complex? Perhaps you're unaware of the meme's I referenced that prompted this thread?

Relax, man. Bask in the glory...

I love how the entire MVC is tough because NDSU is solid. Funny how that logic never worked for Montana when they were rolling.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

19 games over three years, many of which were playoff games. You've won back to back NC's, why the inferiority complex? Perhaps you're unaware of the meme's I referenced that prompted this thread?

Relax, man. Bask in the glory...


Nothing to do with glory or inferiority complex.

Valley plays better total defense compared to the BSC on average per team throughout the whole year.

Yes, in games played between the 2 conferences the scores have been close on average.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

I love how the entire MVC is tough because NDSU is solid. Funny how that logic never worked for Montana when they were rolling.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4


Check the defensive stats on all the teams in each conference....xrolleyesx

[kalm]

I love how the entire MVC is tough because NDSU is solid. Funny how that logic never worked for Montana when they were rolling.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4

Well it really is just a one trick pony...;)

[kalm]

Nothing to do with glory or inferiority complex.

Valley plays better total defense compared to the BSC on average per team throughout the whole year.

Yes...when not facing each other.

It's ok to admit when you're wrong...I do it all the time.

[Grizalltheway]

I love how the entire MVC is tough because NDSU is solid. Funny how that logic never worked for Montana when they were rolling.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4

No ****! Back then it was "Big Fluffly, Montana and no one else" and now it's "NDSU is amazing, let's all ride their coattails and act like we're worth two ****s!". xrolleyesx

[SeattleGriz]

Check the defensive stats on all the teams in each conference....xrolleyesx

Dude, stop being mad over the Jimmy Kimmel prank your parents pulled on your Halloween candy.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

No ****! Back then it was "Big Fluffly, Montana and no one else" and now it's "NDSU is amazing, let's all ride their coattails and act like we're worth two ****s!". xrolleyesx


Interesting

Who rides NDSU's 'coattails?'

[kalm]

Interesting

Who rides NDSU's 'coattails?'

The entire MVFC, according to you.

[Professor Chaos]

True, and in all honesty, it's a bit skewed as the Bison haven't played a BSC opponent since 2010. But I think the sample size along with the fact that many of the BSC losses involved UND, SUU, and Davis in away games provides some balance and still makes the point valid.
The Bison have played against a Sam Houston offense twice in the last two years giving up 10 ppg game against that team. That same Sam Houston team has scored 37 ppg in 6 games against Big Sky teams dating back to 2011. It's not just the ****ty offenses in the MVFC that make the conference defenses look good. It's true that MVFC defenses tend to look better because the offenses aren't as dynamic and BSC offenses look better because the defenses are practically non-existent but the point is I'll take good defense and you can have good offense and I'll beat you more often than not when it counts.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

The entire MVFC, according to you.


Really?

The FCS stats proved my point....sorry if you cannot understand it.

[SeattleGriz]

The Bison have played against a Sam Houston offense twice in the last two years giving up 10 ppg game against that team. That same Sam Houston team has scored 37 ppg in 6 games against Big Sky teams dating back to 2011. It's not just the ****ty offenses in the MVFC that make the conference defenses look good. It's true that MVFC defenses tend to look better because the offenses aren't as dynamic and BSC offenses look better because the defenses are practically non-existent but the point is I'll take good defense and you can have good offense and I'll beat you more often than not when it counts.

I would like to have seen the Big Sky defenses against SHSU with two weeks prep time versus 5 days.

Not knocking NDSU, but the extra time sure doesn't hurt.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4

[kalm]

Really?

The FCS stats proved my point....sorry if you cannot understand it.

You should start a SLOW thread comparing MVFC defensive stats vs. BSC defensive stats thIs year then. Otherwise...go back to the start of this one, I'll type slower, and see if you can keep up this time.xthumbsupx

[IBleedYellow]

I'm just going to point to the Stanford and Oregon game as to why I prefer a tough defense with a grind the clock offense. Take advantage of the other teams mistakes when you have those two things and you severely limit that offensive power and get them worried and they then create more mistakes.

Moto X

[kalm]

I would like to have seen the Big Sky defenses against SHSU with two weeks prep time versus 5 days.

Not knocking NDSU, but the extra time sure doesn't hurt.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4

Two good points here which is what I was hoping for.

[F'N Hawks]

The Bison have played against a Sam Houston offense twice in the last two years giving up 10 ppg game against that team. That same Sam Houston team has scored 37 ppg in 6 games against Big Sky teams dating back to 2011. It's not just the ****ty offeinses in the MVFC that make the conference defenses look good. It's true that MVFC defenses tend to look better because the offenses aren't as dynamic and BSC offenses look better because the defenses are practically non-existent but the point is I'll take good defense and you can have good offense and I'll beat you more often than not when it counts.
Non existent? Once again, completely missing the point and ignoring history. The stats shown in this thread of playoff and OOC matchups show this.

[SeattleGriz]

Two good points here which is what I was hoping for.

See? I can make sense! This is my sober board.

[F'N Hawks]

I'm just going to point to the Stanford and Oregon game as to why I prefer a tough defense with a grind the clock offense. Take advantage of the other teams mistakes when you have those two things and you severely limit that offensive power and get them worried and they then create more mistakes.

Moto X

Good job. What you said has nothing to do with the original post.

[IBleedYellow]

Good job. What you said has nothing to do with the original post.


"Big Fluffy O vs a stellar D" - I talked about defense and offense and how I prefer a better defense vs a fluffy defense.

Yeah, okay Sioux, I'm not biting on that bait tonight.

[kalm]

I'm just going to point to the Stanford and Oregon game as to why I prefer a tough defense with a grind the clock offense. Take advantage of the other teams mistakes when you have those two things and you severely limit that offensive power and get them worried and they then create more mistakes.

Moto X

Agreed, which is why a NDSU-EWU matchup would be really intriguing. EWU's offense may be the best and most balanced ever. NDSU has done really well against option/run first offenses but I'm not sure they have faced one as dynamic as this.


Not smacking whatsoever as the Bison deserve their status. I'd just love to see the matchup.

[kalm]

See? I can make sense! This is my sober board.


:D

[IBleedYellow]

Agreed, which is why a NDSU-EWU matchup would be really intriguing. EWU's offense may be the best and most balanced ever. NDSU has done really well against option/run first offenses but I'm not sure they have faced one as dynamic as this.


Not smacking whatsoever as the Bison deserve their status. I'd just love to see the matchup.

I think of EWU as a passing team, you're telling me they are balanced? How balanced? I swear when our games end we are within 20 yards of the passing and rushing stats. It's silly.

[F'N Hawks]

"Big Fluffy O vs a stellar D" - I talked about defense and offense and how I prefer a better defense vs a fluffy defense.

Yeah, okay Sioux, I'm not biting on that bait tonight.
No that wasnt the topic. Most are pointing out that playoff head to head and OOC scores dont support this myth about how "tough" MVFC defenses are. They get 50+ points hung on them too.

[SeattleGriz]

I think of EWU as a passing team, you're telling me they are balanced? How balanced? I swear when our games end we are within 20 yards of the passing and rushing stats. It's silly.

Balanced enough to keep teams honest.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4

[kalm]

I think of EWU as a passing team, you're telling me they are balanced? How balanced? I swear when our games end we are within 20 yards of the passing and rushing stats. It's silly.

pretty sure we've run the ball more than we've passed.

[JSUBison]

I would like to have seen the Big Sky defenses against SHSU with two weeks prep time versus 5 days.

Not knocking NDSU, but the extra time sure doesn't hurt.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4

Never understood that argument. It only holds water if you assume SHSU would have not taken the same two weeks to prep against the Big Sky.

[SeattleGriz]

Never understood that argument. It only holds water if you assume SHSU would have not taken the same two weeks to prep against the Big Sky.

SHSU faced more offenses similar to the Big Sky in conference play than vice versa.

To add to the equation, NDSU got to play option teams at home in the led up to SHSU.

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[Twentysix]

SHSU faced more offenses similar to the Big Sky in conference play than vice versa.

To add to the equation, NDSU beat option teams at home with 1 week prep in the lead up to SHSU.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4

FIFY ;)

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Yes...but you're missing the point here. No need to get defensive.

I completely see what you were going for and the point is valid. It's a better measurement when it's done that way than looking at it isolated with the differing styles.

There is little dowbt that NDSU is and has been playing the best D in the land and that last one liner is pure comedy brother.

[thebootfitter]

I completely see what you were going for and the point is valid. It's a better measurement when it's done that way than looking at it isolated with the differing styles.
I agree. And while Bison Fan in NW has a point as well (the overall FCS defensive stats do show that MVFC teams have held their opponents to fewer points/yards/etc.), he doesn't seem to be acknowledging the main point of the OP. We could slice and dice the statistics every which way to support several different opposing view points, but the fact remains that in head to head competition over the past few years, there doesn't seem to be a significant advantage on offense or defense between the Big Sky and Missouri Valley teams. They seem fairly evenly matched based on the head-to-head game information presented in this thread.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

I agree. And while Bison Fan in NW has a point as well (the overall FCS defensive stats do show that MVFC teams have held their opponents to fewer points/yards/etc.), he doesn't seem to be acknowledging the main point of the OP. We could slice and dice the statistics every which way to support several different opposing view points, but the fact remains that in head to head competition over the past few years, there doesn't seem to be a significant advantage on offense or defense between the Big Sky and Missouri Valley teams. They seem fairly evenly matched based on the head-to-head game information presented in this thread.


Ya, I did. Head to head....sure the conferences matchup and seem to play evenly matched games.

But....I'll take the Bison defense against anything the Big Sky has this year. Montana State has a decent defense according to the national stats and EWU's is not very good...ranked #93.

[Darlinikki150]

Defense wins championships, ask any coach in any sport.

End of story, stop fighting over it. If the BSC had such "defense" the past 2 years they would have gone deeper into the playoffs. Argue all u want that having high flying offense will get u far, it just won't win you a NC when u have teams like NDSU who pride themselves on having a soul crushing defense.

Defense wins championships.

[dewey]

Seeing different styles of play is why I hate the NCAA's regionalization plan for the playoffs. I love seeing the games of NDSU vs Lehigh's passing game of 2011, EWU vs SHSU last year and the GSU vs NDSU games the last two years. The fact remains that there are different styles across college football and sometimes one style wins ans sometimes another style wins.

Go Bison!

Dewey

[NoDak 4 Ever]

How can you compare conference stats vs head to head? Two different leagues with two different styles. The only REAL comparison is head to head.

Well one could also say that USD is oversampled and NDSU is undersampled in this comparison. When you say "league" you only mean about 1/2 the league.

[gotts]

Are defensive rankings based on yardage allowed? Honest question, I'm curious.

Separate thought - things I'd want to consider when evaluating a defense:

-Takeaways
-Opponent's 3rd down/4th down conversion rates
-Opponent's red zone efficiency rates
-Actual time spent on the field

One final piece of information that isn't totally defense-related is average starting field position. I know this might be affected more by special teams, but where an offense is positioned on the field makes a difference in the play calling both offensively and defensively.

How many points does your team give up? How good of a job does your team do in keeping the opponent off the field? As we saw in the Stanford/Oregon game last night, you set your defense up to look very good when you can limit the opportunities of a dangerous, opposing offense.

[robsnotes4u]

Are defensive rankings based on yardage allowed? Honest question, I'm curious.

Separate thought - things I'd want to consider when evaluating a defense:

-Takeaways
-Opponent's 3rd down/4th down conversion rates
-Opponent's red zone efficiency rates
-Actual time spent on the field

One final piece of information that isn't totally defense-related is average starting field position. I know this might be affected more by special teams, but where an offense is positioned on the field makes a difference in the play calling both offensively and defensively.

How many points does your team give up? How good of a job does your team do in keeping the opponent off the field? As we saw in the Stanford/Oregon game last night, you set your defense up to look very good when you can limit the opportunities of a dangerous, opposing offense.

Great thoughts.


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[robsnotes4u]

Defense wins championships, ask any coach in any sport.

End of story, stop fighting over it. If the BSC had such "defense" the past 2 years they would have gone deeper into the playoffs. Argue all u want that having high flying offense will get u far, it just won't win you a NC when u have teams like NDSU who pride themselves on having a soul crushing defense.

Defense wins championships.

It is time you guys get of that kick, here is an analysis on the subject. An easy argument that defenses win for NDSU because they may win three in a row.

http://freakonomics.com/2012/01/20/does-defense-really-win-championships/

The following is a guest post by Tobias J. Moskowitz and L. Jon Wertheim, authors of Scorecasting: The Hidden Influences Behind How Sports Are Played and Games Are Won, now out in paperback. Moskowitz is a University of Chicago financial economist, and Wertheim is senior writer at Sports Illustrated. You may remember Steve Levitt mentioning the book, or the Q&A with the authors on the blog. They are also regular contributors to the “Football Freakonomics” project.

Does Defense Really Win Championships?
By Tobias J. Moskowitz and L. Jon Wertheim
It’s at this point in the NFL postseason when every NFL analyst, pundit, and blogger will inevitably proclaim “defense wins championships.” With the NFL conference championships upon us this weekend, this phrase will be uttered more times than “yo” in a typical Jersey Shore episode. And why not?
Last weekend we saw two of the NFL’s top offenses – Green Bay and New Orleans — lose to better defenses. Moreover, as Chris Berman himself pointed out on ESPN’s Sunday NFL Countdown, 38 (out of 45) Super Bowls have been won by a top 10 defense and 22 have been won by a top three defense. The sentiment has hardened from cliché into an article of sports law. But is it actually true? Does defense really win championships?
In a word: no.
We found that when it comes to winning a title, or winning in sports in general for that matter, offense and defense carry nearly identical weight. For example, here’s what Berman didn’t tell you: the number of Super Bowl champs with a top 10 offense? Thirty-eight. And a top 3 offense? Twenty. In other words, offense wins championships, too.
We further found that among the 45 NFL Super Bowls, the better defensive team — measured by points allowed that season— has won 29 times. The better offensive team won 25 times. (Note that adds up to 53, which means that some teams are the better offensive and defensive team in the Super Bowl. Nineteen Super Bowls have featured a team superior on both sides of the ball. Those teams have won 14 of those games.) It’s a slight edge for defense, but it’s a pretty close call and not different from random chance. The favorite statistic of the “defense wins championships” proponents is that the top-ranked defense during the regular season has won 15 Super Bowls, whereas the top-ranked offense has won only 8. Although this would seem to confer an advantage to defense, these two numbers are not statistically different. And, remember, since the top-three defenses have won no more than the top-three offensive teams, it also means that offensive teams ranked 2 and 3 have won more Super Bowls than the second- and third-best defensive teams, though again, these differences are not statistically significant.
But we’re only talking about 45 games, so let’s broaden the sample size. There have been 427 NFL playoff games over the last 45 seasons. The better defensive teams have won 58 percent of them. The better offensive teams have won 62 percent of the time. (Again, the winning team is sometimes better both offensively and defensively, which explains why the total exceeds 100 percent.) That’s a slight edge to the offense, but again, pretty even.
In almost 10,000 regular season games, the better defensive team has won 66.5 percent of the time compared with 67.4 percent of the time for the better offensive team. That’s a slight nod to the offense but a negligible difference.
But maybe the phrase “defense wins championships” is supposed to mean is that defense is somehow more necessary than offense. Maybe a team can prevail with a middling offense, but not with a middling defense. As it turns out, that doesn’t hold up, either. Three times the Super Bowl champion ranked in the bottom half of the league in defense; only twice did it rank in the bottom half in offense. The lowest-ranked defensive team to win a Super Bowl was the 2006 Indianapolis Colts, rated nineteenth that year. (They offset that by ranking third in offense.) The lowest-ranked offensive team to win the Lombardi Trophy? The 2000 Baltimore Ravens, ranked nineteenth in offense but first in defense.
What about when a great offense faces a great defense? Twenty-seven Super Bowls have pitted a top 5 offense against a top 5 defense. The best offensive team won 13, and the best defensive team won 14. Another stalemate.
In the NFL it seems, you need either exceptional defense or exceptional offense to win a championship. But neither one is more important than the other.
Okay, but does defense give an underdog more of a chance? Are upsets more likely to be sprung by defensive-minded teams?
Sifting through the numbers, we found that the answer is again no. In the regular season, playoffs, and championships, underdog teams are no more likely to win if they are good defenders than if they are good scorers.
If defense is no more critical to winning than offense is, why does everyone from Little League coaches to ESPN analysts extoll its importance? Well, no one needs to talk up the virtues of scoring. No one needs to create incentives for players to score more touchdowns. There’s a reason why fans exhort “De-fense, De-fense!” not “O-ffense, O-ffense!” Offense is fun. Offense is glamorous. Who gets the Nike shoe contracts and the other endorsements — the players who score or the defensive stoppers?
Quick, which of the following set of names is more recognizable? The top five touchdown leaders in NFL history: Jerry Rice, Emmitt Smith, La-Dainian Tomlinson, Randy Moss, and Terrell Owens? Or the top five interception leaders: Paul Krause, Emlen Tunnell, Rod Woodson, Dick Lane, and Ken Riley?
Bottom line: Defense is no more important than offense. It’s not defense that wins championships. In virtually every sport, you need either a stellar offense or a stellar defense, and having both is even better.
So, who will win this weekend? Here’s how the teams stack up in terms of offense and defense:

(Note: every team is really good at either offense or defense.)
It’s a clear offensive vs. defensive matchup in both conference championships. If you believe the hype, it’ll be a matchup of the defensive-minded Harbaugh brothers in the Super Bowl. If you follow the numbers, it’ll likely be only one Harbaugh who makes it, but we couldn’t tell you which.




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[darell1976]

Defense wins championships, ask any coach in any sport.

End of story, stop fighting over it. If the BSC had such "defense" the past 2 years they would have gone deeper into the playoffs. Argue all u want that having high flying offense will get u far, it just won't win you a NC when u have teams like NDSU who pride themselves on having a soul crushing defense.

Defense wins championships.

Not necessarily....You need offense as well. If you don't have the two, you are going to have a hard time winning. Case in point, UND...our defense horrible last year and this year, but our offense was better last year and we won 5 games, offense sucks this year and we have won 2. No offense = very little points. If NDSU had UND's offense your team would be average at best.



1.

North Dakota St.

13

679

2696

3.97

17

207.38



2.

N.C. A&T

11

691

2787

4.03

18

253.36



3.

Norfolk St.

11

724

3059

4.23

35

278.09



4.

Mississippi Val.

11

737

3071

4.17

27

279.18



5.

Indiana St.

11

722

3260

4.52

18

296.36



6.

Stony Brook

13

802

3882

4.84

25

298.62



7.

Bethune-Cookman

12

755

3617

4.79

27

301.42



8.

South Dakota St.

13

905

3969

4.39

26

305.31



9.

Wofford

13

867

3977

4.59

26

305.92



10.

Chattanooga

11

686

3387

4.94

27

307.91



11.

Youngstown St.

11

638

3395

5.32

34

308.64



12.

Sam Houston St.

13

824

4038

4.90

31

310.62



http://content.usatoday.com/sportsdata/football/fcs/stats/team-total-defense
Total Defense in 2012 by yards....if all it takes is defense how come the #12 team played NDSU for the NC...what happened to teams #2-11?

[kalm]

Defense wins championships, ask any coach in any sport.

End of story, stop fighting over it. If the BSC had such "defense" the past 2 years they would have gone deeper into the playoffs. Argue all u want that having high flying offense will get u far, it just won't win you a NC when u have teams like NDSU who pride themselves on having a soul crushing defense.

Defense wins championships.

The Big sky has had a team in the semi's the last 5 years and 3 times in the NC game over that stretch. That's "deeper" in the playoffs than any other conference.

Defense definitely CAN win championships but its not an absolute. To use EWU as an example, our defense in 2010 was statistically middle of the pack at best, giving up 23 pts/game (IIRC). NDSU, Nova, and UD all had better defenses with UD only giving up 11 that season. This year we're ranked 56 in rushing D giving up 164 yards/game, but our conference only stats finds us giving up only 113 once the Toledo and SHSU games are taken out of the equation. So yes, who you play and how good their offenses are matters.

Look at what EIU did to TSU's D this year (hint, TSU hadn't really played an offense of that caliber yet)

You can also find examples in the NFL wher the Rams, Patriots, and Saints all won superbowls, primarily with offense.

Not trying to take anything away from NDSU's awesome run and fantastic defenses. Just trying to make a comparison between the conference they play in and the BSC

BTW, Dewey and the Bootfitter nailed this.

[kalm]

Are defensive rankings based on yardage allowed? Honest question, I'm curious.

Separate thought - things I'd want to consider when evaluating a defense:

-Takeaways
-Opponent's 3rd down/4th down conversion rates
-Opponent's red zone efficiency rates
-Actual time spent on the field

One final piece of information that isn't totally defense-related is average starting field position. I know this might be affected more by special teams, but where an offense is positioned on the field makes a difference in the play calling both offensively and defensively.

How many points does your team give up? How good of a job does your team do in keeping the opponent off the field? As we saw in the Stanford/Oregon game last night, you set your defense up to look very good when you can limit the opportunities of a dangerous, opposing offense.

Absolutely!xbowx

[344Johnson]

Only true way to compare the two conferences would be to do what the ACC and B1G do for basketball every year and have each school play their counterpart in the opposite conference. Honestly it would probably be pretty close.

[bobcathpdevil56]

Defense wins championships, ask any coach in any sport.

End of story, stop fighting over it. If the BSC had such "defense" the past 2 years they would have gone deeper into the playoffs. Argue all u want that having high flying offense will get u far, it just won't win you a NC when u have teams like NDSU who pride themselves on having a soul crushing defense.

Defense wins championships.

I coach wrestling and I would say defensive does not win championships in that sport. Got to be on the offense

:)

[thebootfitter]

It is time you guys get of that kick, here is an analysis on the subject.Thanks for posting that here. As much as I love the NDSU defense, when the "Defense wins championships" adage is trotted out too much, it is worth reminding folks that it just doesn't hold water.

[FargoBison]

I will say some Bison fans immensely overrate the MVFC. It isn't any better than the CAA or Big Sky as a whole.

[FargoBison]

As they should. Everyone knows the MVC plays ball control smashmouth ball and they don't SCORE as much as the Big Sky. Their defensive conference stats SHOULD be better.

By the way, how can a conference rank 40th and 72nd? How many conferences do we have at the FCS level?

YSU, Illinois State and Missouri State do not play smash mouth ball control.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

I will say some Bison fans immensely overrate the MVFC. It isn't any better than the CAA or Big Sky as a whole.

Tell that to Massey or Sagarin.

[kalm]

Tell that to Massey or Sagarin.

Head to head matchups and playoff results over time disagree.

[FargoBison]

Tell that to Massey or Sagarin.

Playoffs are all I care about. MVFC teams outside of NDSU need to step up when it matters.

The MVFC is a great conference, just like the CAA or Big Sky. My point is that it isn't head and shoulders above those conferences which is what some Bison fans seem to think.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Head to head matchups and playoff results over time disagree.

Again, you have disproportionately sampled the teams. Sure, that's because of scheduling but you are discounting the best defensive team in the nation.

[Professor Chaos]

SHSU faced more offenses similar to the Big Sky in conference play than vice versa.

To add to the equation, NDSU got to play option teams at home in the led up to SHSU.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4
Sam Houston's offense and Georgia Southern/Wofford's offenses are no where near the same.

[kalm]

Again, you have disproportionately sampled the teams. Sure, that's because of scheduling but you are discounting the best defensive team in the nation.

Am I?

the big 4 all have had their strengths and different styles. Again, over time they are all evenly matched when it comes WINNING football games...playoffs or otherwise. The SLC should now arguably be a part of this group.

and how have I discounted NDSU?

[Yote 53]

You forgot USD beat UC Davis this season 10-7.

The head-to-head matchup totals are skewed because USD had so many games with Big Sky opponents the results are USD heavy and not representative of the MVFC as a whole. Sheesh, USD didn't win a game in the Valley last season. That said, by my count of the above games and the UC Davis game this season, USD is 4-4 against the Big Sky. So you're telling me that the Big Sky is .500 in games against a second level Valley team. Not sure that will help prove your case.

[kalm]

You forgot USD beat UC Davis this season 10-7.

The head-to-head matchup totals are skewed because USD had so many games with Big Sky opponents the results are USD heavy and not representative of the MVFC as a whole. Sheesh, USD didn't win a game in the Valley last season. That said, by my count of the above games and the UC Davis game this season, USD is 4-4 against the Big Sky. So you're telling me that the Big Sky is .500 in games against a second level Valley team. Not sure that will help prove your case.

Agreed it's not a perfect sample but it's all we've got. If you'd like, throw out all the games involving UND, Davis, and SUU. Or look at playoff results only.

better?

[catbob]

The Big sky has had a team in the semi's the last 5 years and 3 times in the NC game over that stretch. That's "deeper" in the playoffs than any other conference.

Defense definitely CAN win championships but its not an absolute. To use EWU as an example, our defense in 2010 was statistically middle of the pack at best, giving up 23 pts/game (IIRC). NDSU, Nova, and UD all had better defenses with UD only giving up 11 that season. This year we're ranked 56 in rushing D giving up 164 yards/game, but our conference only stats finds us giving up only 113 once the Toledo and SHSU games are taken out of the equation. So yes, who you play and how good their offenses are matters.

Look at what EIU did to TSU's D this year (hint, TSU hadn't really played an offense of that caliber yet)

You can also find examples in the NFL wher the Rams, Patriots, and Saints all won superbowls, primarily with offense.

Not trying to take anything away from NDSU's awesome run and fantastic defenses. Just trying to make a comparison between the conference they play in and the BSC

BTW, Dewey and the Bootfitter nailed this.

As a Rams fan, I always find this somewhat interesting that no one seems to think the Rams had a good defense that year. It's easy to be overshadowed by one of the greatest offenses in NFL history. The Rams finished 4th in scoring defense and 6th in total defense in 1999.

[Darlinikki150]

First, the wrestling thing is stupid, but thanks.

Second, It is probably my past experience with coaches that makes me believe defense wins championship, that and playing basketball, volleyball. Since I have never played football perhaps I'm wrong, but I'm a woman so its doubtful I am. You absolutely have to offense, u need to score points and I never said u didn't. But imho its the defense that can make stops, its the defense that turns over the ball. U could have the best offense in the world but if the defense can't stop the other team from matching u score for score what's the point?

I may put to much on defense but I stick w Doc Rivers and say defense wins championships. Vilify me all u want boys, but I'm sticking w it.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Agreed it's not a perfect sample but it's all we've got. If you'd like, throw out all the games involving UND, Davis, and SUU. Or look at playoff results only.

better?

That's good.

2011

SHSU 31 UM 28
NDSU 17 SHSU 6

2012
SHSU 45 EWU 42
NDSU 39 SHSU 13


What should we infer from this?

That this conversation is stupid.

If this is about EWU, I would take NDSU's ball control owning of Kansas State over the silly "last team to get the ball wins" Madden game with EWU and OSU.

[kalm]

That's good.

2011

SHSU 31 UM 28
NDSU 17 SHSU 6

2012
SHSU 45 EWU 42
NDSU 39 SHSU 13


What should we infer from this?

That this conversation is stupid.

If this is about EWU, I would take NDSU's ball control owning of Kansas State over the silly "last team to get the ball wins" Madden game with EWU and OSU.

So SHSU is in the Big Sky?

[NoDak 4 Ever]

So SHSU is in the Big Sky?

SHSU is a common opponent. Big scores against Big Fluffy and nothing against MVFC.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

As a Rams fan, I always find this somewhat interesting that no one seems to think the Rams had a good defense that year. It's easy to be overshadowed by one of the greatest offenses in NFL history. The Rams finished 4th in scoring defense and 6th in total defense in 1999.


Ask Kevin Dyson how good the defense was in '99.


http://www.joesportsfanstl.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/KevinDyson.jpg

[kalm]

SHSU is a common opponent. Big scores against Big Fluffy and nothing against MVFC.

And in other news, NDSU has won back to back NC's while playing really good D and SHSU has owned the BSC of late.

This thread is about contrasting styles and whether the BSC's offensive stats are padded because no one in the conference plays defense. Common opponents and two game samples are helpful but don't paint as clear a picture as 19 head to head games between the two.

Next time, I'll preface the thread. I'll run whether or not it may hurt the misguided feelings of certain bison fans up the old flagpole first.

[Darlinikki150]

Don't get your panties in a bunch kalm. I think ppl have personal bias in this case. I do and it really has nothing to do w being a Bison fan, its mostly based on how I coached as a player.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

And in other news, NDSU has won back to back NC's while playing really good D and SHSU has owned the BSC of late.

This thread is about contrasting styles and whether the BSC's offensive stats are padded because no one in the conference plays defense. Common opponents and two game samples are helpful but don't paint as clear a picture as 19 head to head games between the two.

Next time, I'll preface the thread. I'll run whether or not it may hurt the misguided feelings of certain bison fans up the old flagpole first.

I'm merely pointing out how your "head to head" is inaccurate because of the sampling.

[Silenoz]

edit: responding to a 1st page post 10 pages later xlolx

[thebootfitter]

Head to head matchups and playoff results over time disagree.
Not necessarily. Sagarin and Massey are analyzing this season only at this point. Previous years have little or nothing to do with their systems this late in the season. If we were to look back in time at what Sagarin and Massey have said in past years when those matchups occurred, then we may be able to support your statement with the facts.

[Silenoz]

NDSU > Big Sky
NDSU > the rest of the MVFC conference
NDSU > Sam Houston

The end

[NoDak 4 Ever]

NDSU > Big Sky
NDSU > the rest of the MVFC conference
NDSU > Sam Houston

The end

unnecessary post. that's like saying the sky is blue.

[thebootfitter]

I may put to much on defense but I stick w Doc Rivers and say defense wins championships. Vilify me all u want boys, but I'm sticking w it.
Nothing wrong with sticking to that adage as a coach, as it helps instill the importance of sound fundamentals with the defensive players. It's a mantra that makes sense to help focus the players. But as far as measuring the performance of teams on the field, this mantra has been found incorrect. At least in professional football. I suspect we'd find the same thing if we dug into college football at any level or even high school football.

[Silenoz]

unnecessary post. that's like saying the sky is blue.

And yet we have a 10 page thread arguing whether or not team X is better than team Y because team W beat team Z in year U and team B gives up less yards per game than team Q

This **** was dumb when the CAA fans did it from 2004-2010, and it's still stupid now

[Darlinikki150]

Nothing wrong with sticking to that adage as a coach, as it helps instill the importance of sound fundamentals with the defensive players. It's a mantra that makes sense to help focus the players. But as far as measuring the performance of teams on the field, this mantra has been found incorrect. At least in professional football. I suspect we'd find the same thing if we dug into college football at any level or even high school football.

Like I said earlier, its prob a personal bias. Its how I was coached up as a player. However the importance of defense shouldn't be diminished, every team whether its pros, college or high school run drills, have camps, and scheme defense. I just personally think its more important in football than say volleyball. And Doc Rivers has had decades of winning w great defensive bball teams, it isn't just lip service bootfitter.

[JSUBison]

Playoffs are all I care about. MVFC teams outside of NDSU need to step up when it matters.

The MVFC is a great conference, just like the CAA or Big Sky. My point is that it isn't head and shoulders above those conferences which is what some Bison fans seem to think.

I think the fact that the MVC is more competitive top to bottom leads people to believe it's automatically better. My figuring might be wrong, but in the past 5 years, the Big Sky has sent 5 different teams to playoffs out of 13 teams. The MVFC has sent 6 different teams out of 9. Youngstown will make it 7/9 if they can make it this year. It's a really interesting stat, I don't know if there is another conference that has that much turnover maybe the CAA but I haven't looked. There will always be the NDSU/UNI dominant most years, but there's quite a bit of shuffling below. Next year slots 1-8 will be up in the air, with ISU-B likely taking last by most people's predictions. But even that's not set in stone. I don't know whether the MVFC being like that is good or bad, personally I like the excitement of pennant races where the majority of teams could win the conference title. Like you said though, they need to step up in the playoffs and show they are better than one win and done.

[BisonBacker]

That's why the h2h is more interesting...different OOC schedules and one could make a case that the MVFC defensive stats are better because there's not much offense played in-conference.

No not at all....UNI 41 McNeese 6

Mind you that was a McNeese team ranked in the top 10 at the time. Hell I think they were top 5 if my memory serves me correctly.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

I will say some Bison fans immensely overrate the MVFC. It isn't any better than the CAA or Big Sky as a whole.

Here's a great post. I don't even get why Bison Fan or anyone else is taking offense to a simple analysis *very simple* between the two leagues to refute some of the dumb **** other conference members keep saying for the last few years.

NDSU will take THEIR defense over whatever....no ****? Who the hell wouldn't? It's the best there is. From there on down though when you see other fans of other teams in the conference start jock riding and making silly statements based on what NDSU has done and trying to take part of the blanket that NDSU has provided solely is just weird to me.

The MVFC is good. The BSC is good. The Conferences are pretty even outside of the NDSU run the last two years...three years.

But those dumb ass statements made by some when a BSC team is playing an MVFC that they are gonna out physicaled and the MVFC defense is gonna just crush the BSC offense is just not true and it would be nice if something that is not true was not put out as some sort of fact.

[Darlinikki150]

We all just got sent to our rooms via a sassy Father Ursus. We are sorry for fighting and promise to never do it again. Can we still play on the computer Dad?

[ursus arctos horribilis]

We all just got sent to our rooms via a sassy Father Ursus. We are sorry for fighting and promise to never do it again. Can we still play on the computer Dad?

No ya didn't. I didn't say anything about stopping or anything like that. Just putting my take in as everyone else does. Much respect for everyone in this debate but don't understand how it became NDSU fans thinking a shot was being taken at them?

This thread came about from statements made in another thread by an Ill. State fan I think so it seemed pretty spot on with what kalm said and the discussion he started.

[Darlinikki150]

I was just giving ya a little **** ursus, just trying to lighten up the thread.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

I was just giving ya a little **** ursus, just trying to lighten up the thread.

Got it, couldn't tell and didn't want anyone to think they can't give me a beating when I deserve it.:)

[frozennorth]

How can you compare conference stats vs head to head? Two different leagues with two different styles. The only REAL comparison is head to head.
head to head sample size is meaningless. Basically we're comparing und to usd in this sample.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

head to head sample size is meaningless. Basically we're comparing und to usd in this sample.

yep. but it makes the BSC look good, so it's the only REAL comparison.

[semobison]

And yet we have a 10 page thread arguing whether or not team X is better than team Y because team W beat team Z in year U and team B gives up less yards per game than team Q

This **** was dumb when the CAA fans did it from 2004-2010, and it's still stupid now

Hate to admit it but this is an accurate post!

[robsnotes4u]

I coach wrestling and I would say defensive does not win championships in that sport. Got to be on the offense

:)

No but it can get you a stalling call. That is why I loved wrestling Freestyle. Go Go Go. Where do you coach at?

[Twentysix]

And yet we have a 10 page thread arguing whether or not team X is better than team Y because team W beat team Z in year U and team B gives up less yards per game than team Q

This **** was dumb when the CAA fans did it from 2004-2010, and it's still stupid now

Bro, reel in your conference mate. Also, totally agree.

[kalm]

Bro, reel in your conference mate. Also, totally agree.

it began as an exercise in comparing two conferences. I thought the outcome was interesting.

I could try and spin that EWU and MSU haven't been owned by SHSU, but that would be silly and untrue. I'm sorry that over the course of 19 games, the BSC and the MVFC are very evenly split with the MVFC winning a couple more games but held to less points sticks in your craw.

[frozennorth]

Agreed it's not a perfect sample but it's all we've got. If you'd like, throw out all the games involving UND, Davis, and SUU. Or look at playoff results only.

better?
its actually a pretty terrible sample and you should be embarrassed to be using it as an argument. Lower seeded MVFC teams have had to visit big sky teams in the playoffs repeatedly, when was the last time a big sky team had to visit a higher seeded mvfc team in the playoffs? Somehow you've gone 2 years without having to play NDSU in the playoffs. Thats akin to throwing out all the Montana home games. The closest to a statistically meaningful analysis that exists is the computers (and even they aren't great) and the computers make it pretty clear who is on top.

[Grizalltheway]

its actually a pretty terrible sample and you should be embarrassed to be using it as an argument. Underseeded MVFC teams have had to visit big sky teams in the playoffs repeatedly, when was the last time a big sky team had to visit a higher seeded mvfc team in the playoffs? Somehow you've gone 2 years without having to play NDSU in the playoffs. Thats akin to throwing out all the Montana home games. The closest to a statistically meaningful analysis that exists is the computers (and even they aren't great) and the computers make it pretty clear who is on top.

Wait, so UNI was under-seeded in 2011, even though they took a 38 point spanking in Missoula?

[robsnotes4u]

Wait, so UNI was under-seeded in 2011, even though they took a 38 point spanking in Missoula?

Right cross, left hook, down for the count! That statement reminds me of Norton knocking out Bobick.

[mmiller_34]

Stealing from a couple of on-going threads where the meme keeps coming up that the MVFC is a physical conference where defense is played while no defense is played in the BSC, I decided to review.


Going back to the 2010 season, here's the BSC v. MVFC matchups I recall:


(Acknowledging that not all of these BSC teams were members in 2010?...but for sake of argument...)


2010:
USD 27 UND 17
SDSU 21 UND 0
Davis 17 USD 13
Poly 38 USD 24
NDSU 42 MSU 17
EWU 38 NDSU 31


2011:


Poly 48 SDSU 14
USD 27 Davis 24
USD 31 EWU 17
Poly 24 USD 14
UM 48 UNI 10
SDSU 29 SUU 28
UNI 34 SUU 21
UND 38 USD 37


2012:


SDSU 12 Davis 8
EWU 51 ISU 35


2013:


UNI 26 UNC 7
NAU 22 USD 16
SDSU 35 UND 28


MVFC leads the series 10-8


Points over that stretch: BSC 439 MVFC 402


Average pts/game: MVFC 21.2. BSC 23.1


Feel free to fill in any games I've missed.


It's interesting how many times the two conferences have met and how evenly matched they are. Looks like the BSC plays slightly better D though...

Alot of former Great West schools in that comparison; familiarity certainly could play a role in the closeness of these scores.

Regardless, still interesting to look at. Thanks for posting that.

[kalm]

Alot of former Great West schools in that comparison; familiarity certainly could play a role in the closeness of these scores.

Regardless, still interesting to look at. Thanks for posting that.

Good point and I thought so too.

thx!

[frozennorth]

Wait, so UNI was under-seeded in 2011, even though they took a 38 point spanking in Missoula?
are you trying to argue that uni was seeded higher than montana and just decided to play at montana for ****s and giggles?

*edit: the word i was looking for was lower seeded. Not sure why I used under seeded, which has a very different meaning. With corrected terminology, my point stands.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

are you trying to argue that uni was seeded higher than montana and just decided to play at montana for ****s and giggles?

*edit: the word i was looking for was lower seeded. Not sure why I used under seeded, which has a very different meaning. With corrected terminology, my point stands.

Without it it does not and thus Grizall's retort.

[citdog]

Right cross, left hook, down for the count! That statement reminds me of Norton knocking out Bobick.

or this



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNglspyAYgY

[robsnotes4u]

or this



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNglspyAYgY

Remember that one as well, good post


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

Well, going back to the title of this thread...conference showdown.

We'll find out soon enough in a few weeks. With the BSC looking like they will get at least 3 teams in and probably 4, the Bison will most likely meet at least one of these teams in the playoffs.

Hopefully, the overrated Bison defense can hold up to the prolific offenses that the BSC will throw at it come playoff time.....xprayx I guess since the Valley offenses are not very good the defensive stats the Bison have are not a true indicator of how pedestrian the Bison defense is....xnodx

Since the Valley is just the Bison and everyone else has just 'ridin their coattails'.....xnodx

I think I got it down now....just needed to be set straight by these BSC fans....xthumbsupx

[kalm]

Well, going back to the title of this thread...conference showdown.

We'll find out soon enough in a few weeks. With the BSC looking like they will get at least 3 teams in and probably 4, the Bison will most likely meet at least one of these teams in the playoffs.

Hopefully, the overrated Bison defense can hold up to the prolific offenses that the BSC will throw at it come playoff time.....xprayx I guess since the Valley offenses are not very good the defensive stats the Bison have are not a true indicator of how pedestrian the Bison defense is....xnodx

Since the Valley is just the Bison and everyone else has just 'ridin their coattails'.....xnodx

I think I got it down now....just needed to be set straight by these BSC fans....xthumbsupx

still haven't gone back and re-read this thread like I suggested I see.

Or maybe you have....

the comment about the bison's D being over-rated was in direct response to certain fans claiming that BSC offenses are good because no one in the conference plays D.

I'll repeat...the Bison have a terrific defense. The two CONFERENCES have been evenly matched when it comes to wins and points scored over the last 3 years and 19 games.

you could save yourself some serious butt hurt by keeping your knees from jerking.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

still haven't gone back and re-read this thread like I suggested I see.

Or maybe you have....

the comment about the bison's D being over-rated was in direct response to certain fans claiming that BSC offenses are good because no one in the conference plays D.

I'll repeat...the Bison have a terrific defense. The two CONFERENCES have been evenly matched when it comes to wins and points scored over the last 3 years and 19 games.

you could save yourself some serious butt hurt by keeping your knees from jerking.


There is no butthurt and yes I read your initial post about the games played and how evenly they are matched in the games played between the 2.....

Being an 'elite' FCS college FB mind like yourself, or being a 'stat' person like you are; I suppose considering that EWU averages a hundred yards/game more than the Bison that a potential match-up will be decidedly in favor of EWU...right?

[kalm]

There is no butthurt and yes I read your initial post about the games played and how evenly they are matched in the games played between the 2.....

Being an 'elite' FCS college FB mind like yourself, or being a 'stat' person like you are; I suppose considering that EWU averages a hundred yards/game more than the Bison that a potential match-up will be decidedly in favor of EWU...right?

1) I'm not a "stat" guy

2). I'd favor the bison by 13 in Fargo, 6 in Cheney, and 9 at a neutral site.

3). I'd of course be tempted to take the points.

[darell1976]

Hopefully UND can add to the BSC's win total as we have a home and home with Missouri State and South Dakota in the upcoming seasons. Since joining DI UND has only played 2 MVFC teams SIU, and SDSU. (As for as conference membership at the time the games were played) UND went 0-3 vs those teams.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Well, going back to the title of this thread...conference showdown.

We'll find out soon enough in a few weeks. With the BSC looking like they will get at least 3 teams in and probably 4, the Bison will most likely meet at least one of these teams in the playoffs.

Hopefully, the overrated Bison defense can hold up to the prolific offenses that the BSC will throw at it come playoff time.....xprayx I guess since the Valley offenses are not very good the defensive stats the Bison have are not a true indicator of how pedestrian the Bison defense is....xnodx

Since the Valley is just the Bison and everyone else has just 'ridin their coattails'.....xnodx

I think I got it down now....just needed to be set straight by these BSC fans....xthumbsupx

I honestly don't see how this could be your take on things that have been said here Bison Fan. It has been said definitevely several times that the Bison are a different breed are a different breed on D than what the rest of the MVFC claims to be. I wouldn't give any BSC offense a good chance of copeting in FArgo, or even their own home with that team.

The rest of the MVFC talking like they got what you go is just funny though. I really think you are taking what has been said the wrong way because when you are talking about the Bison NOBODY disagrees with you.

[putter]

I agree with ursus, NDSU is on a different level than anyone in the FCS - as a complete team. Most of he MVFC is not at your level either. YSU and maybe UNI (before the injuries) this year are in your range.

[IBleedYellow]

Speaking of balanced offense. NDSU finished 197 rush 198 pass today.

Moto X

[Winindy]

Speaking of balanced offense. NDSU finished 197 rush 198 pass today.

Moto X
Ti
And probably lost the best linebacker on the best defense in the country for the year. They were already thin at LB. Time for some freshmen to step up.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Speaking of balanced offense. NDSU finished 197 rush 198 pass today.

Moto X
I need it exact IBY. Either gain one more yd. rushing or get one less receiving.

[Bisonator]

I need it exact IBY. Either gain one more yd. rushing or get one less receiving.

xlolx

[darell1976]

UND is the definition of unbalanced. Passing 344 Rushing 4. Yes 4 yards rushing. Our leading rusher had 11 yards.
http://espn.go.com/ncf/boxscore?id=333130155

[citdog]

Balance?

BOOM!

IN YOUR FACE!


Offensive Stats for the 'Dogs today.






166
NET YARDS PASSING



4-7
23.7
1-5
0
Completions-Attempts
Net yards per pass play
Sacked: Number-Yards
Had intercepted






258
NET YARDS RUSHING



59
4.4
Rushing Attempts
Average gain per rush

[taper]

With today's results, I see the possibility of 4 Big Sky and 2 MVFC in. If our 2 beat everyone until they meet, and the BSG lose to the first seeded team they meet, which is better? More appearances or more wins?

[IBleedYellow]

Ti
And probably lost the best linebacker on the best defense in the country for the year. They were already thin at LB. Time for some freshmen to step up.

We have five names that I can name off the top of my head that will be getting reps at LB.

I'm so bummed tonight, I may have watched the Bison win but I watched my favorite Bison player play his last snap as a Bison tonight.

Moto X

[Bisonator]

We have five names that I can name off the top of my head that will be getting reps at LB.

I'm so bummed tonight, I may have watched the Bison win but I watched my favorite Bison player play his last snap as a Bison tonight.

Moto X

We'll be fine. LJ will move to Mike. Thorton will fill his Will spot. We have Stumpf too. Not sure how Deluca and PGT are doing with their injuries.

Next man up! Oh and we just got the best Linebacker assistant coach in the business! xthumbsupx

[Darlinikki150]

Olson is a class act. My nephews school held a meet and greet for the the disabled kids and a bunch of NDSU players were supposed to come. Olson was the only one who showed up. Excellent player and one hell of kid. Just so sad he's prob dun.

[robsnotes4u]

That sucks hate to see injuries. An amazing individual and player.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

I honestly don't see how this could be your take on things that have been said here Bison Fan. It has been said definitevely several times that the Bison are a different breed are a different breed on D than what the rest of the MVFC claims to be. I wouldn't give any BSC offense a good chance of copeting in FArgo, or even their own home with that team.

The rest of the MVFC talking like they got what you go is just funny though. I really think you are taking what has been said the wrong way because when you are talking about the Bison NOBODY disagrees with you.



I should have wrote....sarcasm.... at the bottom of the post.

xnodx

[Red & Black]

Missouri Valley teams have a 40th ranked defense on average for all teams....Big Sky 72nd ranked on ave for all teams.

xrolleyesx

MVFC teams not playing Big Sky teams in conference play probably has something to do with it. :)