AGS Poll Results - Week 10 2013

[AGSPoll]

Results for 11/04/2013 AGS Poll:



1
North Dakota State Bison
1875
75


2
Eastern Illinois Panthers
1773



3
Fordham Rams
1617



4
Eastern Washington Eagles
1609



5
Maine Black Bears
1597



6
Coastal Carolina Chanticleers
1454



7
Sam Houston State Bearkats
1374



8
Youngstown State Penguins
1327



9
Montana State Bobcats
1320



10
Southeastern Louisiana Lions
1071



11
Towson Tigers
1027



12
Northern Arizona Lumberjacks
1003



13
Bethune-Cookman Wildcats
998



14
Montana Grizzlies
868



15
McNeese State Cowboys
860



16
Delaware Fightin' Blue Hens
725



17
William & Mary Tribe
623



18
Charleston Southern Buccaneers
458



19
Samford Bulldogs
411



20
Chattanooga Mocs
400



21
Wofford Terriers
387



22
Southern Illinois Salukis
366



23
James Madison Dukes
300



24
Princeton Tigers
232



25
Eastern Kentucky Colonels
146
















Most Significant Win:





Southeastern Louisiana Lions











Most Significant Loss:





Towson Tigers











ORV:




26
Jacksonville State Gamecocks
117



27
South Dakota State Jackrabbits
106



28
Lehigh Mountain Hawks
75



29
Tennessee State Tigers
60



30T
Harvard Crimson
43



30T
Villanova Wildcats
43



32
Tennessee-Martin Skyhawks
22



33
Jackson State Tigers
18



34
Illinois State Redbirds
17



35
South Carolina State Bulldogs
16



36
Southern Utah Thunderbirds
13



37
New Hampshire Wildcats
8



38
Sacred Heart Pioneers
6



39
South Dakota Coyotes
4



40
Northern Iowa Panthers
2

[IBleedYellow]

Well NAU is above Montana finally. Won't have to hear about them now.

[bluehenbillk]

Poll looks very good. Chuck South may be a little high & Jax St may be a little low - but otherwise it's on the mark.

Good voting people.

[dbackjon]

Well NAU is above Montana finally. Won't have to hear about them now.

That happened last week. Where you been?

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Something's too high and another thing's too low.

/generic

[IBleedYellow]

That happened last week. Where you been?

Voting Montana above NAU. ;)

Moto X

[JMUNJ08]

Rip all you want. Realized I forgot Wofford but really, who could complain for them not being included?

1: North Dakota State Bison
2: Eastern Illinois Panthers
3: Eastern Washington Eagles
4: Maine Black Bears
5: Fordham Rams
6: Montana State Bobcats
7: Sam Houston State Bearkats
8: Coastal Carolina Chanticleers
9: Southeastern Louisiana Lions
10: Youngstown State Penguins
11: Delaware Fightin' Blue Hens
12: Towson Tigers
13: Bethune-Cookman Wildcats
14: Northern Arizona Lumberjacks
15: McNeese State Cowboys
16: Montana Grizzlies
17: Charleston Southern Buccaneers
18: William & Mary Tribe
19: Samford Bulldogs
20: Chattanooga Mocs
21: James Madison Dukes
22: Eastern Kentucky Colonels
23: Princeton Tigers
24: Jackson State Tigers
25: Jacksonville State Gamecocks

[gotts]

Had all 25 teams in there this week in mostly the same order. Warm fuzzies.

[bluehenbillk]

Mine:
1: North Dakota State Bison
2: Eastern Illinois Panthers
3: Maine Black Bears
4: Sam Houston State Bearkats
5: Eastern Washington Eagles
6: Youngstown State Penguins
7: Coastal Carolina Chanticleers
8: Fordham Rams
9: Northern Arizona Lumberjacks
10: Southeastern Louisiana Lions
11: Montana State Bobcats
12: Delaware Fightin' Blue Hens
13: Towson Tigers
14: Montana Grizzlies
15: McNeese State Cowboys
16: Bethune-Cookman Wildcats
17: Chattanooga Mocs
18: William & Mary Tribe
19: Samford Bulldogs
20: Jacksonville State Gamecocks
21: James Madison Dukes
22: Wofford Terriers
23: Eastern Kentucky Colonels
24: Charleston Southern Buccaneers
25: Southern Utah Thunderbirds

[JMUNJ08]

Can someone explain why those chose Towson for the 'Most Significant Loss'? They are still firmly in the playoffs at this time. In terms of hit to their playoff brands, Tennessee St. (which I watched) looks like they are light years behind EKU for a 2nd OVC bid and Samford's L put them back in the muddled mediocre pack leading the SoCon.

[bluehenbillk]

Can someone explain why those chose Towson for the 'Most Significant Loss'? They are still firmly in the playoffs at this time. In terms of hit to their playoff brands, Tennessee St. (which I watched) looks like they are light years behind EKU for a 2nd OVC bid and Samford's L put them back in the muddled mediocre pack leading the SoCon.

I chose Towson for most significant loss. Why? They were looking at a top 4 or top 8 seed in the playoffs IMO. Now, they have to beat both W&M and JMU and see UD lose a game to be considered for a top 8 seed. Top 4 is out the window. They might not even bid enough to get an opening round home game. Significant enough?

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Can someone explain why those chose Towson for the 'Most Significant Loss'? They are still firmly in the playoffs at this time. In terms of hit to their playoff brands, Tennessee St. (which I watched) looks like they are light years behind EKU for a 2nd OVC bid and Samford's L put them back in the muddled mediocre pack leading the SoCon.

Well as far as what it did to them in this poll and possibly in the seed discussion as far as AGS'rs go? I think it's more surprising to this community that Towson dropped on this weekend than TSU.

[kdinva]

Me:

1: North Dakota State Bison
2: Eastern Illinois Panthers
3: Coastal Carolina Chanticleers
4: Eastern Washington Eagles
5: Youngstown State Penguins
6: Maine Black Bears
7: Fordham Rams
8: Sam Houston State Bearkats
9: Montana State Bobcats
10: McNeese State Cowboys
11: Towson Tigers
12: Bethune-Cookman Wildcats
13: Montana Grizzlies
14: Northern Arizona Lumberjacks
15: Delaware Fightin' Blue Hens
16: Wofford Terriers
17: William & Mary Tribe
18: Samford Bulldogs
19: James Madison Dukes
20: Southeastern Louisiana Lions
21: Princeton Tigers
22: Chattanooga Mocs
23: Lehigh Mountain Hawks
24: Eastern Kentucky Colonels
25: Charleston Southern Buccaneers

[ursus arctos horribilis]

I chose Towson for most significant loss. Why? They were looking at a top 4 or top 8 seed in the playoffs IMO. Now, they have to beat both W&M and JMU and see UD lose a game to be considered for a top 8 seed. Top 4 is out the window. They might not even bid enough to get an opening round home game. Significant enough?

Oh good, I got it right! xlolx

[Twentysix]

My flight from the bay got in way to late... couldn't vote this weekend.

[B.T.C.]

First poll I've submitted, but all in all not too many things out of line with the masses. I am higher on Tennessee State than most it appears:

1: North Dakota State Bison
2: Eastern Illinois Panthers
3: Coastal Carolina Chanticleers
4: Fordham Rams
5: Maine Black Bears
6: Eastern Washington Eagles
7: Montana State Bobcats
8: Sam Houston State Bearkats
9: McNeese State Cowboys
10: Southeastern Louisiana Lions
11: Towson Tigers
12: Youngstown State Penguins
13: Bethune-Cookman Wildcats
14: Northern Arizona Lumberjacks
15: Montana Grizzlies
16: Samford Bulldogs
17: Charleston Southern Buccaneers
18: Wofford Terriers
19: Tennessee State Tigers
20: William & Mary Tribe
21: Delaware Fightin' Blue Hens
22: Southern Illinois Salukis
23: Chattanooga Mocs
24: James Madison Dukes
25: Eastern Kentucky Colonels

[ursus arctos horribilis]

My flight from the bay got in way to late... couldn't vote this weekend.

I always feel bad when I see those poll perfection userbars slipping away from a good voter like that. Sucks dude.

[JMUNJ08]

I chose Towson for most significant loss. Why? They were looking at a top 4 or top 8 seed in the playoffs IMO. Now, they have to beat both W&M and JMU and see UD lose a game to be considered for a top 8 seed. Top 4 is out the window. They might not even bid enough to get an opening round home game. Significant enough?

In those terms, yes, if you saw them as garnering a top 4ish seed (not IMO but thats fine). Being in the playoffs still is a huge deal and seeding doesn't always matter in my eyes. There should be no predictions this week putting them outside the playoff picture. However, a L to W&M and/ or JMU changes that thought process...

[ursus arctos horribilis]

First poll I've submitted, but all in all not too many things out of line with the masses. I am higher on Tennessee State than most it appears:

1: North Dakota State Bison
2: Eastern Illinois Panthers
3: Coastal Carolina Chanticleers
4: Fordham Rams
5: Maine Black Bears
6: Eastern Washington Eagles
7: Montana State Bobcats
8: Sam Houston State Bearkats
9: McNeese State Cowboys
10: Southeastern Louisiana Lions
11: Towson Tigers
12: Youngstown State Penguins
13: Bethune-Cookman Wildcats
14: Northern Arizona Lumberjacks
15: Montana Grizzlies
16: Samford Bulldogs
17: Charleston Southern Buccaneers
18: Wofford Terriers
19: Tennessee State Tigers
20: William & Mary Tribe
21: Delaware Fightin' Blue Hens
22: Southern Illinois Salukis
23: Chattanooga Mocs
24: James Madison Dukes
25: Eastern Kentucky Colonels

Unfortunately, you are not registered as of yet but you did submit a real decent poll for a new guy so I hope to see you get registered for next years vote.

BTW, you need 100 posts to register and have been a member for one year but you can request an exception and if the poll committee votes you in, you're in. This place sucks with all the hoops you got to jump through with post counts doesn't it? xlolx

Feel free to keep submitting/or posting your rankings in these threads (after the poll is released, not prior) and you'll get lots of good feedback and be rolling right along when you hit the post count.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

23: Princeton Tigers
24: Jackson State Tigers


xlolx Really?

[JMUNJ08]

First poll I've submitted, but all in all not too many things out of line with the masses. I am higher on Tennessee State than most it appears:

1: North Dakota State Bison
2: Eastern Illinois Panthers
3: Coastal Carolina Chanticleers
4: Fordham Rams
5: Maine Black Bears
6: Eastern Washington Eagles
7: Montana State Bobcats
8: Sam Houston State Bearkats
9: McNeese State Cowboys
10: Southeastern Louisiana Lions
11: Towson Tigers
12: Youngstown State Penguins
13: Bethune-Cookman Wildcats
14: Northern Arizona Lumberjacks
15: Montana Grizzlies
16: Samford Bulldogs
17: Charleston Southern Buccaneers
18: Wofford Terriers
19: Tennessee State Tigers
20: William & Mary Tribe
21: Delaware Fightin' Blue Hens
22: Southern Illinois Salukis
23: Chattanooga Mocs
24: James Madison Dukes
25: Eastern Kentucky Colonels

I was big on Tennessee St. until this weekend too. I encourage you to watch the replay of this weekend's game @ EKU xpopcornx

That garnered them my 'Most Significant Loss' for the weekend

[jmufan999]

probably not the right thread for this, but....

didn't they change something in the playoff rules this year, where 2 conference teams now can meet in the Round of 16? maybe that had already changed.

[JMUNJ08]

xlolx Really?

The WHOLE of AGS voted Princeton #24 for this week so I guess you are laughing at everyone on this site or is #23 a crazy stretch?

As for #24 Jackson St., they beat 2 of the 3 other 'good' SWAC teams so far and you can't fault them for either of their losses (Tulane & Tennessee St.).

Now if I recall, Lehigh has 2 conference Ls (Fordham really counts) which those two have a combined 0. Also, fine, Princton lost to Lehigh to open their season by 1 but I can see a difference since then...

[rokamortis]

probably not the right thread for this, but....

didn't they change something in the playoff rules this year, where 2 conference teams now can meet in the Round of 16? maybe that had already changed.

Yes, I believe it is only the first round where they won't schedule conference mates.

[B.T.C.]

Damn you people. Posting around here is like working in government! Bunch of damn bureaucrats! ;) xlolx

[Franks Tanks]

Lehigh and UNH too high.

W&M too low.

Princeton should be ranked.

edit- sorry this was meant for the other poll. This one is solid!

[IBleedYellow]

The WHOLE of AGS voted Princeton #24 for this week so I guess you are laughing at everyone on this site or is #23 a crazy stretch?


I did not. Don't lump me with everyone else! ;)

[ursus arctos horribilis]

The WHOLE of AGS voted Princeton #24 for this week so I guess you are laughing at everyone on this site or is #23 a crazy stretch?

As for #24 Jackson St., they beat 2 of the 3 other 'good' SWAC teams so far and you can't fault them for either of their losses (Tulane & Tennessee St.).

Now if I recall, Lehigh has 2 conference Ls (Fordham really counts) which those two have a combined 0. Also, fine, Princton lost to Lehigh to open their season by 1 but I can see a difference since then...

Jackson State also has like 7 straight wins and probably should be getting some looks so I don't get LFN's retort either.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

probably not the right thread for this, but....

didn't they change something in the playoff rules this year, where 2 conference teams now can meet in the Round of 16? maybe that had already changed.

NDSU and SDSU met last year in the round of 16. Cheap ass NCAA

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Damn you people. Posting around here is like working in government! Bunch of damn bureaucrats! ;) xlolx

"We have rules around here."

http://scarina.files.wordpress.com/2013/06/grampa.jpg

[MSUBobcat]

Mine:
1: North Dakota State Bison
2: Eastern Illinois Panthers
3: Maine Black Bears
4: Sam Houston State Bearkats
5: Eastern Washington Eagles
6: Youngstown State Penguins
7: Coastal Carolina Chanticleers
8: Fordham Rams
9: Northern Arizona Lumberjacks
10: Southeastern Louisiana Lions
11: Montana State Bobcats
12: Delaware Fightin' Blue Hens
13: Towson Tigers
14: Montana Grizzlies
15: McNeese State Cowboys
16: Bethune-Cookman Wildcats
17: Chattanooga Mocs
18: William & Mary Tribe
19: Samford Bulldogs
20: Jacksonville State Gamecocks
21: James Madison Dukes
22: Wofford Terriers
23: Eastern Kentucky Colonels
24: Charleston Southern Buccaneers
25: Southern Utah Thunderbirds

Not to sound like dbackjon, but I might refer you to this http://espn.go.com/ncf/recap?id=332780147. MSU 36, NAU 7. NAU was held to 11 first downs on 232 yards, Bauman had 26 yards and their only score was off a pick 6. McGhee didn't play in the 4th quarter. xcoolx

[JMU2K_DukeDawg]

I was big on Tennessee St. until this weekend too. I encourage you to watch the replay of this weekend's game @ EKU xpopcornx

That garnered them my 'Most Significant Loss' for the weekend


Ditto on Tenn St. as Most Significant Loss.

[msupokes1]

Not to sound like dbackjon, but I might refer you to this http://espn.go.com/ncf/recap?id=332780147. MSU 36, NAU 7. NAU was held to 11 first downs on 232 yards, Bauman had 26 yards and their only score was off a pick 6. McGhee didn't play in the 4th quarter. xcoolx

I have the same question with McNeese and SHSU. Same record and McNeese won the head to head but some how they are 8 spots ahead. I think McNeese's spot is about right. SHSU is way overrated. SELA is the real deal.

[JMU2K_DukeDawg]

Deep playoff runs keep teams overrated for years. Hell, it's been since 2008 that JMU was in the semi finals and I still feel like we get the benefit of the doubt in many record-breaking scenarios by FCS voters/fans.

[ngineer]

I chose Towson for most significant loss. Why? They were looking at a top 4 or top 8 seed in the playoffs IMO. Now, they have to beat both W&M and JMU and see UD lose a game to be considered for a top 8 seed. Top 4 is out the window. They might not even bid enough to get an opening round home game. Significant enough?

+1

[dystopiamembrane]

I have the same question with McNeese and SHSU. Same record and McNeese won the head to head but some how they are 8 spots ahead. I think McNeese's spot is about right. SHSU is way overrated. SELA is the real deal.I am in complete agreement with you.

[Sam_Kats]

Beauty of playoffs...

[dystopiamembrane]

Beauty of playoffs...go on?

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

1: North Dakota State Bison
2: Eastern Illinois Panthers
3: Eastern Washington Eagles
4: Fordham Rams
5: Maine Black Bears
6: Coastal Carolina Chanticleers
7: Youngstown State Penguins
8: Sam Houston State Bearkats
9: Montana State Bobcats
10: Northern Arizona Lumberjacks
11: Bethune-Cookman Wildcats
12: Southeastern Louisiana Lions
13: Towson Tigers
14: McNeese State Cowboys
15: Princeton Tigers
16: William & Mary Tribe
17: Southern Illinois Salukis
18: Delaware Fightin' Blue Hens
19: Montana Grizzlies
20: James Madison Dukes
21: Charleston Southern Buccaneers
22: Jacksonville State Gamecocks
23: Chattanooga Mocs
24: Lehigh Mountain Hawks
25: Samford Bulldogs

MSW- SELA
MSL - Tennessee State

[Sam_Kats]

go on?

Meaning there are teams I think are overrated, some that I think will surprise, etc. You have your opinions as does every other poster. Bottom line is, it gets settled on the field. Get it??

[dbackjon]

Not to sound like dbackjon, but I might refer you to this http://espn.go.com/ncf/recap?id=332780147. MSU 36, NAU 7. NAU was held to 11 first downs on 232 yards, Bauman had 26 yards and their only score was off a pick 6. McGhee didn't play in the 4th quarter. xcoolx

I would vote MSU ahead of NAU

[dystopiamembrane]

Meaning there are teams I think are overrated, some that I think will surprise, etc. You have your opinions as does every other poster. Bottom line is, it gets settled on the field. Get it??Agreed. I am one for making sure the best teams make it to the playoffs. There are only 24 spots and we currently have an AQ system that gives some of those spots to teams outside the top 24. So, in my opinion, it behooves us to get it right off the field so the best teams get a chance to settle it on the field.

[MSUBobcat]

I would vote MSU ahead of NAU

I knew you would.xthumbsupx Either way, still 3 weeks left so polls still have a lot of changes coming.

[MSUBobcat]

Agreed. I am one for making sure the best teams make it to the playoffs. There are only 24 spots and we currently have an AQ system that gives some of those spots to teams outside the top 24. So, in my opinion, it behooves us to get it right off the field so the best teams get a chance to settle it on the field.

You've made this argument before and almost no one agrees. Yes, most AQ's from "weaker" conferences are going to get bounced early. But how much better would a 24th ranked 7-4 team from a power conference that is the 4th or 5th best in their own conference fare? They had the regular season to prove they belong and they couldn't prove it on the field then, so why give them a shot in the playoffs? The same happens with March Madness. If you win your conference, let the little guys play. Maybe they pull off an upset and have a great memory. Maybe they earn some national attention and the quality of their league improves. I'd bet that being able to tell recruits that you play in an AQ conference helps those schools with recruiting. They won't steal a player from NDSU, but maybe from a better DII school.

Bottom line is, IMO, the "weaker" AQ conferences are not stealing a playoff bid from the eventual champs 9 times out 10 (or probably even higher).

[dystopiamembrane]

You've made this argument before and almost no one agrees.I think everyone agrees that we should get the best teams into the playoffs.
I understand your point regarding the AQs. It makes it fun to request the Wagner at Montana State game at my local sports bar.
However, I am arguing here that we should get the best teams into the at-large spots. So, it matters whether SHSU, for example, is 8th or 18th.

[JMUNJ08]

You've made this argument before and almost no one agrees. Yes, most AQ's from "weaker" conferences are going to get bounced early. But how much better would a 24th ranked 7-4 team from a power conference that is the 4th or 5th best in their own conference fare? They had the regular season to prove they belong and they couldn't prove it on the field then, so why give them a shot in the playoffs? The same happens with March Madness. If you win your conference, let the little guys play. Maybe they pull off an upset and have a great memory. Maybe they earn some national attention and the quality of their league improves. I'd bet that being able to tell recruits that you play in an AQ conference helps those schools with recruiting. They won't steal a player from NDSU, but maybe from a better DII school.

Bottom line is, IMO, the "weaker" AQ conferences are not stealing a playoff bid from the eventual champs 9 times out 10 (or probably even higher).

Agreed. My only recent memory would be Richmond. Barely made the field in 09? but bullied everyone in the playoffs. Otherwise, the champs were rolling all season in recent memory...

[BlueHenSinfonian]

Here's mine:


1: North Dakota State Bison
2: Eastern Illinois Panthers
3: Maine Black Bears
4: Fordham Rams
5: Youngstown State Penguins
6: Eastern Washington Eagles
7: Coastal Carolina Chanticleers
8: McNeese State Cowboys
9: Sam Houston State Bearkats
10: Towson Tigers
11: Montana State Bobcats
12: Southeastern Louisiana Lions
13: Bethune-Cookman Wildcats
14: Northern Arizona Lumberjacks
15: Montana Grizzlies
16: Delaware Fightin' Blue Hens
17: Charleston Southern Buccaneers
18: William & Mary Tribe
19: Lehigh Mountain Hawks
20: Chattanooga Mocs
21: Samford Bulldogs
22: Princeton Tigers
23: James Madison Dukes
24: Wofford Terriers
25: Tennessee State Tigers

[MSUBobcat]

I think everyone agrees that we should get the best teams into the playoffs.
I understand your point regarding the AQs. It makes it fun to request the Wagner at Montana State game at my local sports bar.
However, I am arguing here that we should get the best teams into the at-large spots. So, it matters whether SHSU, for example, is 8th or 18th.

If the polls can't get it right whether a team is 8th or 18th, we have problems. I could see arguments between 8th and maybe 10th, because it's for the final seed and a first round bye. 18th is still solidly in the playoffs and they get their chance to prove it on the field. Only teams 23-24 can say we didn't put the best teams in the field, due to the Pioneer and NEC getting bids over a higher ranked team. IMO, there's little difference in the #24 ranked team and the Pioneer champ. Neither is probably going to make much noise. xtwocentsx

[Sammy94]

However, I am arguing here that we should get the best teams into the at-large spots.

Never will happen, to much politics involved.

[Sammy94]

SHSU is way overrated.

I wonder if EWU thinks that also???

[dystopiamembrane]

If the polls can't get it right whether a team is 8th or 18th, we have problems. I could see arguments between 8th and maybe 10th, because it's for the final seed and a first round bye. 18th is still solidly in the playoffs and they get their chance to prove it on the field. Only teams 23-24 can say we didn't put the best teams in the field, due to the Pioneer and NEC getting bids over a higher ranked team. IMO, there's little difference in the #24 ranked team and the Pioneer champ. Neither is probably going to make much noise. xtwocentsxEach time that this conversation comes up, the discussion ambles to an end with someone saying, "They're not going to win anyway."
What's the name of the website that hosts this forum, again?

[dystopiamembrane]

If the polls can't get it right whether a team is 8th or 18th, we have problems.Of note, the football composite ranking (http://masseyratings.com/cf/compare1aa.htm) seats Montana State at 22nd. A number of ranking systems place them outside the top 25. AGSers place them 9th.

[MSUBobcat]

Agreed. My only recent memory would be Richmond. Barely made the field in 09? but bullied everyone in the playoffs. Otherwise, the champs were rolling all season in recent memory...

Not sure if you have that correct. Richmond won it all in 2008, but they made the field easily with a 9-3 record and #7 ranking. In 2009, Richmond was 10-1, ranked #4 and received the 4th seed, but fell in the 2nd round to App State. Not sure who you might be thinking of.

[MSUBobcat]

Each time that this conversation comes up, the discussion ambles to an end with someone saying, "They're not going to win anyway."
What's the name of the website that hosts this forum, again?

When is the last time the 23rd or 24th ranked team won it all. The name of this site is ANY Given Saturday, not EVERY Given Saturday which is what it would take for them to knock off 4 straight favored teams, and at least 1 or 2 with the opponent being HEAVILY favored.

[dystopiamembrane]

When is the last time the 23rd or 24th ranked team won it all. The name of this site is ANY Given Saturday, not EVERY Given Saturday which is what it would take for them to knock off 4 straight favored teams, and at least 1 or 2 with the opponent being HEAVILY favored.Point taken. The tournament itself is a bit too large, yes? Maybe, if we had the top 8?

[GoAgs72]

The Eastern bias has finally infected me. I live 30 miles from the Pacific Ocean but I still voted for Eastern Illinois, Eastern Washington and Eastern Kentucky but no Western teams.

[MSUBobcat]

Of note, the football composite ranking (http://masseyratings.com/cf/compare1aa.htm) seats Montana State at 22nd. A number of ranking systems place them outside the top 25. AGSers place them 9th.

Also of note, most AGSers put little value in computer rankings and AGS is much more reliable for picking the playoff field, so we'll take our chances. Also of note, Sagarin has them at 12 (4-5 UNI is 9, and they aren't sniffing the top 25), currently. I know you put a lot of credence in computer polls, but you are in the minority.

[dudeitsaid]

I wonder if EWU thinks that also???

I certainly don't think SHSU is overrated. This seems to be a common theme for the Bearkats over the past few seasons. I am sure you guys will be in there, and will have the opportunity to prove it on the field. I do think the EWU is overrated. They have a solid O, and a few great wins to hang their hats on. But to beat many of the teams ranked below them, they have to minimize offensive mistakes against good teams, and play better defense. We've faced solid offenses all year, for the most part, and even the poor teams in the Big Sky are putting up good offensive numbers, but EWU is one of the lowest of the top 25 in scoring defense, and one of the lowest in all of the FCS on yards allowed per game.

SHSU exposed us in a way I'm afraid other strong teams will. You guys are likely taking a hit in the rankings for your loss to McNeese and close games to Lamar and SFA. Last year, you guys were killing everybody in the Southland outside UCA. But in looking throughout history, few strong teams have beaten every team they've faced in a season decisively. You guys will be there, and be able to prove it on the field of 24.

[MSUBobcat]

Point taken. The tournament itself is a bit too large, yes? Maybe, if we had the top 8?

I'm OK with the size. The top 8 earned their spot in the playoffs and are given the "easiest" route to the championship with a 1st round bye and at least 1 home game, and more often then not the champion is in the top 8. In the last 10 years, Richmond was the lowest ranked team to win it, when they were #7 in 2008.

[dystopiamembrane]

Also of note, most AGSers put little value in computer rankings and AGS is much more reliable for picking the playoff field, so we'll take our chances. Also of note, Sagarin has them at 12 (4-5 UNI is 9, and they aren't sniffing the top 25), currently. I know you put a lot of credence in computer polls, but you are in the minority.MSU takes a hit every time SFA loses another game.

[dystopiamembrane]

I'm OK with the size.You're a difficult customer. I'll take off the cost of the true coat.

[MSUBobcat]

MSU takes a hit every time SFA loses another game.

Only in your computer based virtual world.

[dystopiamembrane]

Only in your computer based virtual world.Don't get chippy, blue and gold. I was trying to tell you why you're ranked 22nd.

[MSUBobcat]

You're a difficult customer. I'll take off the cost of the true coat.

I don't know what that means. I'm OK with the size because it's more FCS football, which I'm for, and the extra teams have little effect on the overall outcome in most cases. If there is a Cinderella story, I'm for that too. What I'm not for is saying teams from conferences that have been granted Auto Bid status are taking spots from "better" teams. They have just as much right to be there, and will impact the playoffs as much, as a team ranked #24, IMO.

[MSUBobcat]

Don't get chippy, blue and gold. I was trying to tell you why you're ranked 22nd.

Not getting chippy. Just stating a fact. Most humans aren't lowering MSU based off of what an opponent does week by week. They base it on what the team itself did that week.

[dystopiamembrane]

I don't know what that means.That line is a reference to a film entitled Fargo. I do understand what you are saying. I accept the AQ argument. I am arguing that we should get the at-large positions correct. Didn't we go over this already?

[dystopiamembrane]

Not getting chippy. Just stating a fact. Most humans aren't lowering MSU based off of what an opponent does week by week. They base it on what the team itself did that week.Do you believe that there is an element of dropping the ball in that schema?

[MSUBobcat]

That line is a reference to a film entitled Fargo. I do understand what you are saying. I accept the AQ argument. I am arguing that we should get the at-large positions correct. Didn't we go over this already?

Let me guess. We get the at-larges correct by using computer models? Amirite?

Ranking teams relative to one another is subjective, and therefore there's no definite right or wrong.

[dystopiamembrane]

Let me guess. We get the at-larges correct by using computer models? Amirite?Of course not. I think it best to have a bunch of guys sit around a table and talk about it. And, they better have killer boxed lunches available.

[JMUNJ08]

Not sure if you have that correct. Richmond won it all in 2008, but they made the field easily with a 9-3 record and #7 ranking. In 2009, Richmond was 10-1, ranked #4 and received the 4th seed, but fell in the 2nd round to App State. Not sure who you might be thinking of.

2008. They had to win 5 straight just to make it in the postseason and then only got 1 home game when they got there. Playing @ App St & @ UNI Dome make that a pretty rough go of it. While be ranked highly all year, I wouldn't say they were any kind of 'favorite' going into the postseason or expected to make it through some pretty rough road venues...

[FargoBison]

Great work as usual AGS voters. Best poll in the FCS again and it isn't close.

[LehighU11]

1: North Dakota State Bison
2: Fordham Rams
3: Maine Black Bears
4: Eastern Illinois Panthers
5: Coastal Carolina Chanticleers
6: Eastern Washington Eagles
7: Youngstown State Penguins
8: Montana State Bobcats
9: Southeastern Louisiana Lions
10: William & Mary Tribe
11: Towson Tigers
12: Northern Arizona Lumberjacks
13: Sam Houston State Bearkats
14: Bethune-Cookman Wildcats
15: Delaware Fightin' Blue Hens
16: Chattanooga Mocs
17: Princeton Tigers
18: Samford Bulldogs
19: James Madison Dukes
20: Charleston Southern Buccaneers
21: Montana Grizzlies
22: Southern Utah Thunderbirds
23: Wofford Terriers
24: McNeese State Cowboys
25: New Hampshire Wildcats

[smilo]

Southland Conference is underrated. Paticularly McNeese State, but also SELA. Everything else looks pretty good.

My only complaints, I have William and Mary 13 and Princeton 17, but I understand I am probably in the minority with those extreme rankings. I really like those two for sure though. I am confident putting them against other teams that high. I also have UNH 24 though I totally get why others are a lower on them. I don't have as much confidence with them. 37 still seem low to me.

Finally, SIU should switch with CSU. I have them 18 and 22 respectively. Unless SIU loses to ISU-r (which I think I will be hoping for!), they are a solid playoff team. We still have no idea about CSU. I don't want to over-rank them.

[FargoBison]

1: North Dakota State Bison
2: Eastern Illinois Panthers
3: Maine Black Bears
4: Eastern Washington Eagles
5: Fordham Rams
6: Sam Houston State Bearkats
7: Southeastern Louisiana Lions
8: Montana State Bobcats
9: Youngstown State Penguins
10: Northern Arizona Lumberjacks
11: Towson Tigers
12: Coastal Carolina Chanticleers
13: McNeese State Cowboys
14: Montana Grizzlies
15: Delaware Fightin' Blue Hens
16: Bethune-Cookman Wildcats
17: Samford Bulldogs
18: Wofford Terriers
19: Chattanooga Mocs
20: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
21: William & Mary Tribe
22: James Madison Dukes
23: Southern Illinois Salukis
24: Eastern Kentucky Colonels
25: Princeton Tigers

[MSUBobcat]

2008. They had to win 5 straight just to make it in the postseason and then only got 1 home game when they got there. Playing @ App St & @ UNI Dome make that a pretty rough go of it. While be ranked highly all year, I wouldn't say they were any kind of 'favorite' going into the postseason or expected to make it through some pretty rough road venues...

Yes they had a tough road, but so do most teams in the playoffs. They didn't just barely make it in and were ranked in the top 7. They weren't one of the last teams in. It's easier to fathom a #7 team winning it all than the #24 who got left home due to the Pioneer league is all I'm saying.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

MSU takes a hit every time SFA loses another game.

And the funny thing is when you rely on the computer is that the team that lost to SFA is not the team playing today. If it were able to throw that game out and stop counting it as such the product would be better but if it's what one wants to cling to then so be it. It's not better than a normal objective look at that particular point though.

It would be like letting a computer compare lap times of a group of fast cars but in one of the timed laps one of the cars (or several) may have had a flat tire. The computer only looks at their lap time and make the judgement off of that.

I think it's pretty faulty to put all your eggs in any one basket but as I've said before do it your way even if you take yourself out of the mix and don't utilize your own judgment.

[IBleedYellow]

And the funny thing is when you rely on the computer is that the team that lost to SFA is not the team playing today. If it were able to throw that game out and stop counting it as such the product would be better but if it's what one wants to cling to then so be it. It's not better than a normal objective look at that particular point though.

It would be like letting a computer compare lap times of a group of fast cars but in one of the timed laps one of the cars (or several) may have had a flat tire. The computer only looks at their lap time and make the judgement off of that.

I think it's pretty faulty to put all your eggs in any one basket but as I've said before do it your way even if you take yourself out of the mix and don't utilize your own judgment.

I feel that he realizes 100% on a redacted computer exclusively and only forms his "opinion" based upon that. Now, if he was Jeff S. it would be different, but none of us have seen proof his computer is actually his own, which is quiet shallow and lame.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

I feel that he realizes 100% on a redacted computer exclusively and only forms his "opinion" based upon that. Now, if he was Jeff S. it would be different, but none of us have seen proof his computer is actually his own, which is quiet shallow and lame.

It was noticed right away that he uses Massey or at least the tool he uses is indistinguishable from that and he has also relayed that on the threads. It is too bad that it isnot simply a tool used but instead the final product.

[IBleedYellow]

It was noticed right away that he uses Massey or at least the tool he uses is indistinguishable from that and he has also relayed that on the threads. It is too bad that it isnot simply a tool used but instead the final product.

That's my point. It's NOT HIS opinion. He is literally regurgitating exactly what he's told, no wavering from it. Lame.

Computers should be used as a tool, not an "end all be all" type situation. Why do you think so many people dislike the BCS?! Now that's being brought to the FCS with no personal checking.

Thankfully we have playoffs.

[dystopiamembrane]

And the funny thing is when you rely on the computer is that the team that lost to SFA is not the team playing today. If it were able to throw that game out and stop counting it as such the product would be better but if it's what one wants to cling to then so be it. It's not better than a normal objective look at that particular point though.

It would be like letting a computer compare lap times of a group of fast cars but in one of the timed laps one of the cars (or several) may have had a flat tire. The computer only looks at their lap time and make the judgement off of that.

I think it's pretty faulty to put all your eggs in any one basket but as I've said before do it your way even if you take yourself out of the mix and don't utilize your own judgment.The SFA loss is not the only factor in play here. However, your point is well taken. As I have noted a number of times, there have been only a few minds in history which can take the data set that is a college football season and come out with an unbiased, repeatable ranking result. I do not possess such a mind.

[dystopiamembrane]

That's my point. It's NOT HIS opinion. He is literally regurgitating exactly what he's told, no wavering from it. Lame.

Computers should be used as a tool, not an "end all be all" type situation. Why do you think so many people dislike the BCS?! Now that's being brought to the FCS with no personal checking.

Thankfully we have playoffs.
It doesn't make my points less valid. Go ahead and ignore what I'm saying because I don't look at last week's ranking and move things around based on this week's scores.

[MSUBobcat]

It was noticed right away that he uses Massey or at least the tool he uses is indistinguishable from that and he has also relayed that on the threads. It is too bad that it isnot simply a tool used but instead the final product.

Agreed. I'll take a human opinion that can distinguish that the team that lost to SFA had a QB playing in his 2nd collegiate game and threw 4 INTs, including a pick 6 when down 7 points late in the fourth, from one led by a 4 year starter with more career wins than anyone in Big Sky history.

[dystopiamembrane]

Agreed. I'll take a human opinion that can distinguish that the team that lost to SFA had a QB playing in his 2nd collegiate game and threw 4 INTs, including a pick 6 when down 7 points late in the fourth, from one led by a 4 year starter with more career wins than anyone in Big Sky history.It's a season resume. All teams have set-backs. Why is MSU's special?

[MSUBobcat]

It doesn't make my points less valid. Go ahead and ignore what I'm saying because I don't look at last week's ranking and move things around based on this week's scores.

You don't have to " look at last week's ranking and move things around based on this week's scores." At this point in the season, you can look at a body of work, which includes who you've played and who the teams you've played have played. You can also look at more than just a box score to judge the quality of a team. But you are free to do it however you like.

[citdog]

That's my point. It's NOT HIS opinion. He is literally regurgitating exactly what he's told, no wavering from it. Lame.




JUST like NoDak in the obamacare thread!

[MSUBobcat]

It's a season resume. All teams have set-backs. Why is MSU's special?

How is their setback "special"? The problem I have with computers is that they can overvalue a win or loss. A 4-5 Villanova, on a 3 game losing streak and eliminated from playoff consideration, has no business in the top 20, where your computer model has them.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

The SFA loss is not the only factor in play here. However, your point is well taken. As I have noted a number of times, there have been only a few minds in history which can take the data set that is a college football season and come out with an unbiased, repeatable ranking result. I do not possess such a mind.

However you could take what that computer mind tells you, add to the output with the places your mind would shine over that model and come up with an even better product if you chose to do so. Taking into account little things like we just discussed and mitigating the flaw of the lap time if you so chose.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

It's a season resume. All teams have set-backs. Why is MSU's special?

They are not. You should look at each team and see which set backs seem most relevant to your final product.

[Professor Chaos]

Southland Conference is underrated. Paticularly McNeese State, but also SELA.
Which McNeese are you talking about? The one that lost to UNI and SELA by 5+ TDs or the one that beat Sam Houston. I wouldn't even rank the one that lost to UNI and SELA and I'd rank the one that beat Sam Houston in the top 8. Problem is you don't know which one will show up from week to week so #15 is nice happy medium IMO.

[dystopiamembrane]

You don't have to " look at last week's ranking and move things around based on this week's scores." At this point in the season, you can look at a body of work, which includes who you've played and who the teams you've played have played. You can also look at more than just a box score to judge the quality of a team. But you are free to do it however you like.The process you just described is pretty big. There are a lot of FCS teams and a lot of opponents. My brain can't do it fairly or accurately. I'd love to eavesdrop on someone doing what you described. It must take a lot of paper.

[dystopiamembrane]

How is their setback "special"? The problem I have with computers is that they can overvalue a win or loss. A 4-5 Villanova, on a 3 game losing streak and eliminated from playoff consideration, has no business in the top 20, where your computer model has them.Here is the fundamental question. Is this poll designed to pick the at-large pool or is it designed to indicate the 25 best teams in the country. I asked this question once before. Suppose NDSU had a schedule of FBS programs and they went 3-9. Would a one loss Chuck South be a better team than they are?

[B.T.C.]

This is certainly an interesting conversation over the last few pages. I'm a stat junkie by heart - specifically, baseball sabermetrics, which attempt to answer all things via the computer - however, I'm really surprised that someone that seems like they have a sound comprehension of FCS (dystopia) would so easily and quickly cast their personal opinion (regardless of subjectivity or objectivity) aside for a computer formula.

Sure, a computer formula is going to post a more consistent set of results based on the data of a full season -- but that's not the point. The computer cannot determine the human element of the game. The computer cannot account for an injury, or a noticeable lack of conditioning on one side of the ball or the other that can be seen by the human eye. Great, a computer formula can do its job and decipher wins v. losses, but there is so much more to the game than that. Nobody should rely 100% on the 'objective' computer formula just as nobody should rely 100% on the subjective human eye. To do so one way or the other is an injustice to the end product of work for each team.

[dystopiamembrane]

They are not. You should look at each team and see which set backs seem most relevant to your final product.Point taken. I accept your challenge.

[B.T.C.]

Here is the fundamental question. Is this poll designed to pick the at-large pool or is it designed to indicate the 25 best teams in the country. I asked this question once before. Suppose NDSU had a schedule of FBS programs and they went 3-9. Would a one loss Chuck South be a better team than they are?

If you can show us the tape of these hypothetical games, then we might be able to tell you. But since you're basing the entire argument of a fairytale of nothing more than Ws and Ls, there isn't a response to give. I'd be equally interested to know why you think your computer formulas would truly be able to sort that situation out any better, other than because they are being spit out by a computer.

P.S. You do know those computers and formulas were built by the human element...right??

[dystopiamembrane]

This is certainly an interesting conversation over the last few pages. I'm a stat junkie by heart - specifically, baseball sabermetrics, which attempt to answer all things via the computer - however, I'm really surprised that someone that seems like they have a sound comprehension of FCS (dystopia) would so easily and quickly cast their personal opinion (regardless of subjectivity or objectivity) aside for a computer formula.

Sure, a computer formula is going to post a more consistent set of results based on the data of a full season -- but that's not the point. The computer cannot determine the human element of the game. The computer cannot account for an injury, or a noticeable lack of conditioning on one side of the ball or the other that can be seen by the human eye. Great, a computer formula can do its job and decipher wins v. losses, but there is so much more to the game than that. Nobody should rely 100% on the 'objective' computer formula just as nobody should rely 100% on the subjective human eye. To do so one way or the other is an injustice to the end product of work for each team.Who is able to watch even a tenth of the games played?

[dystopiamembrane]

If you can show us the tape of these hypothetical games, then we might be able to tell you. But since you're basing the entire argument of a fairytale of nothing more than Ws and Ls, there isn't a response to give. I'd be equally interested to know why you think your computer formulas would truly be able to sort that situation out any better, other than because they are being spit out by a computer.

P.S. You do know those computers and formulas were built by the human element...right??
Point taken. It's the fairest system I can find.
What's your thought on the fundamental question I asked?

[MSUBobcat]

The process you just described is pretty big. There are a lot of FCS teams and a lot of opponents. My brain can't do it fairly or accurately. I'd love to eavesdrop on someone doing what you described. It must take a lot of paper.

One could start with the "How They Fared" and "Good Wins/Bad Losses" spreadsheets, sprinkle in some of your computer models, and add some of your own personal criteria, maybe even watch some actual games. 75 people somehow found time to do this process this week between the games ending Saturday and early this morning and ,IMO, they turned out a much better product than your computer. Just my xtwocentsx

[MSUBobcat]

Here is the fundamental question. Is this poll designed to pick the at-large pool or is it designed to indicate the 25 best teams in the country. I asked this question once before. Suppose NDSU had a schedule of FBS programs and they went 3-9. Would a one loss Chuck South be a better team than they are?

I'm amazed that you think these two are mutually exclusive. The poll indicates the top 25 teams. The top teams in the country (likely 22, as the NEC and Pioneer likely won't have a team in the top 24) will be the teams in the playoffs. It's been shown quite often that the AGS poll is the most accurate predictor of the playoff field, so it seems to me the poll accomplishes both objectives of your fundamental question.

As for your hypothetical, if NDSU had a schedule of FBS programs we would compare and rank them relative to other FBS schools, just like we currently do for all FBS schools. The hypothetical doesn't really apply.

[dystopiamembrane]

One could start with the "How They Fared" and "Good Wins/Bad Losses" spreadsheets, sprinkle in some of your computer models, and add some of your own personal criteria, maybe even watch some actual games. 75 people somehow found time to do this process this week between the games ending Saturday and early this morning and ,IMO, they turned out a much better product than your computer. Just my xtwocentsxi hear what you are saying and I understand it. I just can't feel comfortable with sprinkling, trained in Mathematics. And, I watch more games than I am willing to admit to most people. Although, I feel comfortable admitting it in this good company.

[dystopiamembrane]

I'm amazed that you think these two are mutually exclusive. The poll indicates the top 25 teams. The top teams in the country (likely 22, as the NEC and Pioneer likely won't have a team in the top 24) will be the teams in the playoffs. It's been shown quite often that the AGS poll is the most accurate predictor of the playoff field, so it seems to me the poll accomplishes both objectives of your fundamental question.I see your point. I'll keep my Autism to myself from now on, good fellows.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Who is able to watch even a tenth of the games played?

You can't watch em' all no doubt. I don't care on little bit about the NFL so I personally enjoy catching any replays of FCS on ESPN3 or other means of watching some "film" on as much of the top 25 as I can on Sundays. I love this place because you normally have at least some highlights that other people post for you to watch.

I know that's not for everybody but if I'm gonna fill the Sunday with football it's just what I care about the most so that's what I do. I try to triage and catch the teams I'm thinking are the best and some I have waiting in the wings but no one other than TwentySix can watch all of them.

[dystopiamembrane]

I'm also not an NFLer.

[MSUBobcat]

i hear what you are saying and I understand it. I just can't feel comfortable with sprinkling, trained in Mathematics. And, I watch more games than I am willing to admit to most people. Although, I feel comfortable admitting it in this good company.

I wasn't trying to imply you don't watch a good number of games and apologize if it came across that way.

I just think an objective person would know that the team that lost to SFA was much different than the one now with McGhee at the helm, so they take the results with a grain of salt, whereas the computers, as you said, drop MSU every time SFA loses. That makes little sense to me. MSU is much better now, but SFA loses - better drop MSU some morexrotatehx:D

[ursus arctos horribilis]

I see your point. I'll keep my Autism to myself from now on, good fellows.

You will not deprive me of these entertaining conversations.:D

[Srdnaty]

I chose Towson for most significant loss. Why? They were looking at a top 4 or top 8 seed in the playoffs IMO. Now, they have to beat both W&M and JMU and see UD lose a game to be considered for a top 8 seed. Top 4 is out the window. They might not even bid enough to get an opening round home game. Significant enough?

Won't Towson need two Maine losses to get a top 8?

[dystopiamembrane]

I wasn't trying to imply you don't watch a good number of games and apologize if it came across that way.

I just think an objective person would know that the team that lost to SFA was much different than the one now with McGhee at the helm, so they take the results with a grain of salt, whereas the computers, as you said, drop MSU every time SFA loses. That makes little sense to me. MSU is much better now, but SFA loses - better drop MSU some morexrotatehx:DYou folks beat EWU on Saturday, please. I'd love to see what that does to the ranking system. Like a kid in a candy store.

[MSUBobcat]

You will not deprive me of these entertaining conversations.:D

Agreed. It's instigated some good conversation.

[BisonFan02]

You can't watch em' all no doubt. I don't care on little bit about the NFL so I personally enjoy catching any replays of FCS on ESPN3 or other means of watching some "film" on as much of the top 25 as I can on Sundays. I love this place because you normally have at least some highlights that other people post for you to watch.

I know that's not for everybody but if I'm gonna fill the Sunday with football it's just what I care about the most so that's what I do. I try to triage and catch the teams I'm thinking are the best and some I have waiting in the wings but no one other than TwentySix can watch all of them.

This. I like to watch a lot of ESPN3 on Sunday...especially if there were a lot of tight games on Saturday. The NFL just doesn't do it for me.

[MSUBobcat]

You folks beat EWU on Saturday, please. I'd love to see what that does to the ranking system. Like a kid in a candy store.

I'm cautiously optimistic.xnodxxprayxxtroublex

[B.T.C.]

This. I like to watch a lot of ESPN3 on Sunday...especially if there were a lot of tight games on Saturday. The NFL just doesn't do it for me.

Hmmm...nobody is going to take me away from my NFL. As much as I've really tried hard to embrace college football (specifically, the FCS), pro sports will always be first in my heart xlovex

But I trust that those that are making the decisions for playoff seedings are not distracted by such alternative entertainment and are watching plenty of game film on Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wedn.....

[B.T.C.]

Point taken. It's the fairest system I can find.
What's your thought on the fundamental question I asked?
I'm in agreement with the other post. They're not necessarily mutually exclusive. They can, and often do, achieve the same result and often to the satisfaction of the masses. I'm not going to argue that the polls in the BCS don't get it right -- they do. I can't think of too many "#1s" that there was a firestorm over for having not deserved it. But at the end of the day this is all entertainment and bracketed playoffs are the ultimate form of entertainment -- and not the "Mr. Clean Magic Eraser Bowl".

[citdog]

Hmmm...nobody is going to take me away from my NFL. As much as I've really tried hard to embrace college football (specifically, the FCS), pro sports will always be first in my heart xlovex

.

You're a carpetbagging yankee aren't you???? No REAL SOUTHRON has to TRY and "embrace" College Football!

[Twentysix]

You can't watch em' all no doubt. I don't care on little bit about the NFL so I personally enjoy catching any replays of FCS on ESPN3 or other means of watching some "film" on as much of the top 25 as I can on Sundays. I love this place because you normally have at least some highlights that other people post for you to watch.

I know that's not for everybody but if I'm gonna fill the Sunday with football it's just what I care about the most so that's what I do. I try to triage and catch the teams I'm thinking are the best and some I have waiting in the wings but no one other than TwentySix can watch all of them.

Lol, I don't watch them all :p. But, I watch as many as I can!

[B.T.C.]

You're a carpetbagging yankee aren't you???? No REAL SOUTHRON has to TRY and "embrace" College Football!

Crap. Did I leave my Lawn Guyland font on again!?

[citdog]

Crap. Did I leave my Lawn Guyland font on again!?


17 North.......HIT IT!

[B.T.C.]

17 North.......HIT IT!

FYI - for any CCU fans that venture through here, you have about a 65% chance of them being from NY, Jersey, or Mass. xlolx We're Carpetbagger U!

[ElCid]

I have to add my weekly "why are people still voting for Chuck South." Good, I got that out of my system. I suspect it may be either uninformed voters or some Big South voters trying to prop them up. As a fan who saw his team lose to them, I know how over rated they are. Wait one more week and the proof will be in the pudding. Either I am right or I will start voting for them as well. Either way we will finally have the proof we all need.

Some other general observations:
- I think Towson may be a bit (3-4) high after this past week. Not enough to quibble over.
- I still do not have any intent to rank Ivy league due to their schedule insulation; can't gage them properly if they only have a couple OOC games and then only a majority of weak opponents. They have had a couple of good opponents but not enough to tie them into the FCS as a whole with any accuracy. People can say how good they are, but prove it without just merely subjective observations. If you can convince me, I will start voting for them.
- I voted for E Kentucky but folks were harsh on Tenn State's loss. Other teams have been blown out as well and still survive in the ranking. I don't think I need to start naming names.
- I think we are getting to a better consensus. The vote totals for each ranking position are closer than they have been to date.
- Who but a couple homers are still voting for N Iowa, Nova, and NH? Good teams but they are not getting it done when needed which brings me to a philosophical question of do you vote for who you think could beat who? Or who is getting it done on the field when it counts? That may seem to question my rant of Chuck South above, but there are many other teams with better SOS who still have respectable, winning records than CSU. I would even vote for Lehigh before Chuck South. In any event, teams that are 4-5 have no business getting votes. 4-4 and 5-4 are suspect as well at this point.

[IBleedYellow]

17 North.......HIT IT!

For someone who lives in the North now...you are funny ****.

[rokamortis]

For someone who lives in the North now...you are funny ****.

And his alma mater recruits heavily from out of state.

[HensRock]

How is their setback "special"? The problem I have with computers is that they can overvalue a win or loss. A 4-5 Villanova, on a 3 game losing streak and eliminated from playoff consideration, has no business in the top 20, where your computer model has them.

I was with you up to this point. I personally think too many people link Top 25 and playoff eligibility. If you think the 24 best teams in FCS are going to make the playoffs this year, and the Top 20 made it last year, etc. then you are dreaming and I take issue with that. And I don't need a computer to tell me that the 24-team playoff field are NOT the Top 24 teams in FCS because I guarantee you that the best team left out will beat the worst team in - 10 games out of 10 - every year. And it's because of auto-bids. Just because a team is in first place of some crappy conference, does not automatically make them a Top 25 team!

And yes, I think "4-5 Villanova on a 3 game losing streak" is better than some of the teams I see ranked in the AGS Top 25. To me, "better" means if you put the 2 teams on the field, the "better" one would win. I think some here would argue that the "better" team is the one that has the higher probability of making the playoffs, regardless of how they would fare against each other.

[Grizzlies82]

Won't Towson need two Maine losses to get a top 8?

Srdnaty, The answer is no. Allocation of the top eight seeds has nothing to do with your conference opponents. Both Towson & Maine COULD be among the top eight seeds, or NEITHER might make it. Essentially it's determined by Towson's record, their strength of schedule, and how many other teams have comparable, or better, numbers than they do.

[fmrbearkat]

FYI - for any CCU fans that venture through here, you have about a 65% chance of them being from NY, Jersey, or Mass. xlolx We're spray tan U!

FIFY

[cardiaccowboy]

McNeese has the be the most bipolar team in the country. After watching the game Sat. a lot of it has to do with the offense play calling.

[lionsrking2]

McNeese has the be the most bipolar team in the country. After watching the game Sat. a lot of it has to do with the offense play calling.

What do ya suppose you would have done differently?

[citdog]

For someone who lives in the North now...you are funny ****.


I now reside in the WEST. Would NEVER live amongst the vile and contemptible race of yankees.

[IBleedYellow]

I now reside in the WEST. Would NEVER live amongst the vile and contemptible race of yankees.

Pretty sure you live in the Northern states of the USA.

[citdog]

Pretty sure you live in the Northern states of the USA.

WHEN we rise these people will be WITH US! They are westerners. NOT yankee scum.

[B.T.C.]

FIFY

http://girltalk247.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/6a00d83451b8c369e20128760e172b970c.gif

[citdog]

What do ya suppose you would have done differently?


Whip Fannies!

[cardiaccowboy]

Run sometimes on 3rd and short.

[lionsrking2]

Run sometimes on 3rd and short.

Pretty sure you did run on third and short a couple of times, though there weren't that many opportunities. I know there was a false start and holding penalty on a couple which set you back to 3rd and long. But at the end of the day, it wouldn't have mattered, other than to say you tried something else.

[Houndawg]

I now reside in the WEST. Would NEVER live amongst the vile and contemptible race of yankees.

Sore loser.:( Maybe move to France where you could spend your days with French patriots discussing the finer points of waving white flags.

[MSUBobcat]

I was with you up to this point. I personally think too many people link Top 25 and playoff eligibility. If you think the 24 best teams in FCS are going to make the playoffs this year, and the Top 20 made it last year, etc. then you are dreaming and I take issue with that. And I don't need a computer to tell me that the 24-team playoff field are NOT the Top 24 teams in FCS because I guarantee you that the best team left out will beat the worst team in - 10 games out of 10 - every year. And it's because of auto-bids. Just because a team is in first place of some crappy conference, does not automatically make them a Top 25 team!

And yes, I think "4-5 Villanova on a 3 game losing streak" is better than some of the teams I see ranked in the AGS Top 25. To me, "better" means if you put the 2 teams on the field, the "better" one would win. I think some here would argue that the "better" team is the one that has the higher probability of making the playoffs, regardless of how they would fare against each other.

I don't know if you missed the numerous posts where I said that the 23rd and 24th best teams are getting left out due to the NEC and PFL getting autobids (possibly PL this year as well, due to Fordham not eligible for the autobid), but as I stated before, I'm OK with giving them a shot because realistically they have about the same chance of winning the NC as the team that got left home for Thanksgiving, which is slim at best. Take out the lower ranked auto-bids and I'd be willing to bet that the AGS poll correctly picks over 90% of the playoff teams (i.e. 20 of the teams selected will be in the top 22 of the AGS poll). So yes, the AGS top 22 does approximate the playoff field, whereas computer models typically do not.

[dystopiamembrane]

I don't know if you missed the numerous posts where I said that the 23rd and 24th best teams are getting left out due to the NEC and PFL getting autobids (possibly PL this year as well, due to Fordham not eligible for the autobid), but as I stated before, I'm OK with giving them a shot because realistically they have about the same chance of winning the NC as the team that got left home for Thanksgiving, which is slim at best. Take out the lower ranked auto-bids and I'd be willing to bet that the AGS poll correctly picks over 90% of the playoff teams (i.e. 20 of the teams selected will be in the top 22 of the AGS poll). So yes, the AGS top 22 does approximate the playoff field, whereas computer models typically do not.My opinion, a ranking system should not approximate the musings of a bunch of guys sitting around a table at the end of the regular season. The ranking system should replace that bunch of guys with a consistent, accepted formula. The AGS poll is not justified by stating that it is the best approximation of the output of a biased, inconsistent exercise.

[BisonFan02]

Sore loser.:( Maybe move to France where you could spend your days with French patriots discussing the finer points of waving white flags.

http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/treasures/images/at0021a5s.jpg

[ursus arctos horribilis]

My opinion, a ranking system should not approximate the musings of a bunch of guys sitting around a table at the end of the regular season. The ranking system should replace that bunch of guys with a consistent, accepted formula. The AGS poll is not justified by stating that it is the best approximation of the output of a biased, inconsistent exercise.

I think you are hearing or readng into this something that isn't being said. I never once have put together a ballot and thought "I wonder what the selection committee is going to choose". Not once.

Are these things mused over once it gets toward the end of the year? Sure they are. Doesn't mean a thing when voters are choosing which teams are the strongest FCS reps in their mind though I wouldn't think.

I broke the final poll into portions last year and calculated it with the votes coming in prior to the selection committee announcement and those coming in after the announcement and teams that were borderline and got in were actually ranked lower in the latter voters so it pretty much shows that voters didn't use that as a guideline for their top 25 and the votes prior to the announcement surely couldn't have used it. I believe you were provided a link to that thread a few weeks back that showed this.

[msupokes1]

Pretty sure you did run on third and short a couple of times, though there weren't that many opportunities. I know there was a false start and holding penalty on a couple which set you back to 3rd and long. But at the end of the day, it wouldn't have mattered, other than to say you tried something else.

I can recall at least twice where we picked up 7 and 8 yards on first down and on both occasions ran a screen play on second down and a long pass on 3rd down. One of those passes were intercepted and the other was caught by the receiver 5 yards out of bounds. No excuses here SELA played a good game. I am not sure that even on our best day we would have beat them. With that being said it was not our best outing. I am not sure why I am surprised when that is the norm for the McNeese teams of late.

We were averaging right at 5 yards a carry but only ran the ball 18 times. The coaches were stuck on passing the ball.

[dystopiamembrane]

I think you are hearing or readng into this something that isn't being said. I never once have put together a ballot and thought "I wonder what the selection committee is going to choose".I am not saying this. What I do hear often when I propose something different, especially a selection algorithm, is that the AGS poll is acceptable because it is the best poll at guessing what the selection committee delivers. I am arguing that this is not a justification for the validity of the poll.

[Professor Chaos]

I am not saying this. What I do hear often when I propose something different, especially a selection algorithm, is that the AGS poll is acceptable because it is the best poll at guessing what the selection committee delivers. I am arguing that this is not a justification for the validity of the poll.
I know this has been said before but the process to create the at large playoff pool and the process I, and most others who vote in the poll, use to create my poll are the same. I'm trying to rank the 25 best teams in the country. What the playoff selection committee does is choose the 13 best teams in the country in their estimation who didn't get automatic playoff bids and, combining them with the 11 autobids, seed the 8 best teams overall.

When I put together a playoff projection I pull the seeds and at large selections directly from my poll. It's the same thing.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

I am not saying this. What I do hear often when I propose something different, especially a selection algorithm, is that the AGS poll is acceptable because it is the best poll at guessing what the selection committee delivers. I am arguing that this is not a justification for the validity of the poll.

Yes, it more closely matches what other thinking people are putting together than an algorithm that can not recognize that a lap was run on a flat tire. In other words I believe it to be a better judge of what that team actually is and has the potential to accomplish. Machines are absolutely great but you have to exercise SOME personal judgement while using those tools.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIakZtDmMgo

[dystopiamembrane]

Yes, it more closely matches what other thinking people are putting together than an algorithm that can not recognize that a lap was run on a flat tire.Football is a team sport. Losing a player, even a star QB, should not cause a team currently ranked #9 to tank against a team that lost to Prairie View A&M.

[MSUBobcat]

My opinion, a ranking system should not approximate the musings of a bunch of guys sitting around a table at the end of the regular season. The ranking system should replace that bunch of guys with a consistent, accepted formula. The AGS poll is not justified by stating that it is the best approximation of the output of a biased, inconsistent exercise.

The problem is coming up with a consistent, accepted formula. You're going to have a hard time selling people on a formula that continues to drop a team based on how an opponent from week 4 does regardless of how the team itself does. Computers can only look at scores, which only tell part of the story.

Also, Ursus has told you at least a few times that the AGS poll is not the output of a "biased" exercise, and more often than not is the opposite of bias (i.e. a fan ranks his/her team and/or conference lower than fans from outside the conference). Whether you choose to accept that evidence is your choice.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Football is a team sport. Losing a player, even a star QB, should not cause a team currently ranked #9 to tank against a team that lost to Prairie View A&M.

Then by that logic I guess the flat tire would also be inconsequential. Hell a good QB is more like the engine but let's set that aside for a moment and assume you are spot on. What is the explanation for that game vs. how they played against SMU and other good teams that did not lose to PVA&M?

[MSUBobcat]

Football is a team sport. Losing a player, even a star QB, should not cause a team currently ranked #9 to tank against a team that lost to Prairie View A&M.

What would be the result of team playing without a star QB playing against a team that just 4 days ago put up nearly 750 yards and 49 points against your computer's #11 team, and lost mainly due to 6 TO's?

Your computer looks only at W-L without recognizing there are many other factors that go into a football game, hence the "Any Given Saturday".

[B.T.C.]

Football is a team sport. Losing a player, even a star QB, should not cause a team currently ranked #9 to tank against a team that lost to Prairie View A&M.

There is so much I find wrong in this post that I'm not sure where to even start. But let's give it a shot...

So, based on that statement we can assume you believe the following:

1) That there is no such thing as a monumental or large upset. There are only minimal ones because apparently the team was never that good to begin with despite having lost a 'star' player. They were improperly ranked from beginning to end.

2) That you find fault in your computer rankings in the same way you find fault in human rankings, for any computer algorithm that spits out a team ranked highly that loses to that lowly of a team clearly is operating off of a defective algorithm. Thus, the computer rankings that you tout so greatly are also just as bad as the human element in your eyes.

Glad we got that cleared up.

[dystopiamembrane]

The problem is coming up with a consistent, accepted formula.Agreed. That should be our focus.
You're going to have a hard time selling people on a formula that continues to drop a team based on how an opponent from week 4 does regardless of how the team itself does.If any formula does this, it is not very sound. There are numerous factors that should be included. I apologize if I misled you to believe that masseyratings.com is only looking at MSU's loss to SFA when ranking that team.
Computers can only look at scores, which only tell part of the story.Computers can look at any data and large amounts of data. One can and should think big here.
Also, Ursus has told you at least a few times that the AGS poll is not the output of a "biased" exercise, and more often than not is the opposite of bias (i.e. a fan ranks his/her team and/or conference lower than fans from outside the conference). Whether you choose to accept that evidence is your choice.Your "i.e." is an example of bias. There are numerous others that an organic brain makes subconsciously, like a fondness for purple uniforms, for example.

[dystopiamembrane]

Then by that logic I guess the flat tire would also be inconsequential. Hell a good QB is more like the engine but let's set that aside for a moment and assume you are spot on. What is the explanation for that game vs. how they played against SMU and other good teams that did not lose to PVA&M?I have no explanation, nor should I have one. This is college football. The chips fall as they may.

[dystopiamembrane]

Your computer looks only at W-L without recognizing there are many other factors that go into a football game, hence the "Any Given Saturday".This is false.

[dystopiamembrane]

What would be the result of team playing without a star QB playing against a team that just 4 days ago put up nearly 750 yards and 49 points against your computer's #11 team, and lost mainly due to 6 TO's?I'm not sure what you are talking about here.

[dystopiamembrane]

1) That there is no such thing as a monumental or large upset. There are only minimal ones because apparently the team was never that good to begin with despite having lost a 'star' player. They were improperly ranked from beginning to end.The season plays out as it does and rankings should reflect what happened during the season. The SFA win was a large upset, in my opinion.
2) That you find fault in your computer rankings in the same way you find fault in human rankings, for any computer algorithm that spits out a team ranked highly that loses to that lowly of a team clearly is operating off of a defective algorithm. Thus, the computer rankings that you tout so greatly are also just as bad as the human element in your eyes.Yes. The difference is that the algorithm can be improved.

[dystopiamembrane]

Open your eyes, my brothers and sisters. When I was in college, there was no such thing as Google. Now that there is, we no longer need to search using a card catalog.

[MSUBobcat]

Football is a team sport. Losing a player, even a star QB, should not cause a team currently ranked #9 to tank against a team that lost to Prairie View A&M.


What would be the result of team playing without a star QB playing against a team that just 4 days ago put up nearly 750 yards and 49 points against your computer's #11 team, and lost mainly due to 6 TO's?

Your computer looks only at W-L without recognizing there are many other factors that go into a football game, hence the "Any Given Saturday".

I was referring to how you implied that SFA is so awful (lost to PVAMU) that even without the main cog in an offense, there is no way a #9 ranked team should lose to them (which is also how computers would see it). In the real world, that "awful" team battled with the #7 team and put up video game stats. If they didn't shoot themselves in the foot so many times, they likely win that game. Computers will look at the W-L record of SFA and the opponents of SFA and think they are terrible and hammer MSU for losing to them, even weeks after the game. Looking objectively at it, a person might be inclined to see that MSU was without their field general and SFA was in the game with another top 10 team, and not penalize them as much for the loss.

[dystopiamembrane]

I was referring to how you implied that SFA is so awful (lost to PVAMU) that even without the main cog in an offense, there is no way a #9 ranked team should lose to them (which is also how computers would see it). In the real world, that "awful" team battled with the #7 team and put up video game stats. If they didn't shoot themselves in the foot so many times, they likely win that game. Computers will look at the W-L record of SFA and the opponents of SFA and think they are terrible and hammer MSU for losing to them, even weeks after the game. Looking objectively at it, a person might be inclined to see that MSU was without their field general and SFA was in the game with another top 10 team, and not penalize them as much for the loss.That loss is but one of a giant number of factors that an algorithm can use to determine a ranking. It's not a hammer. It's factored in equivalently to the win against NAU, for example. Should that win be given less merit because NAU was missing a player or some such? Data is data.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

I have no explanation, nor should I have one. This is college football. The chips fall as they may.

Got it, not interested in trying to refine the system.xthumbsupx

[dystopiamembrane]

Earlier in my life, I had to use a pay phone to call a friend. I have a cell phone now and pay phones are all but obsolete.

[dystopiamembrane]

Got it, not interested in trying to refine the system.xthumbsupxI'm completely interested in refining the system. It's the reason I am typing to you.
Data is data. Read my other posts, please.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Open your eyes, my brothers and sisters. When I was in college, there was no such thing as Google. Now that there is, we no longer need to search using a card catalog.

Yes, it is a useful tool to use to achieve an end result.

[B.T.C.]

I'm completely interested in refining the system. Explanations are not necessary. It's the reason I am typing to you. Data is data. Read my other posts, please.

Data is data? Do you realize what the research of PhDs around the world using such data is actually boiled down to? Whether the statistical significance shows whether something is not false...but not necessarily true. That is all of research, with REAL data. What you have in front of your with an algorithm is NOT real data. They are arbitrary numbers compiled and spit out to a result that is no different than Google attempting to decipher whether the search ad it shows for you should be for a Ford Focus or a Mercedes C-Class. That's not real data...that's information. Your algorithms are not even equating to that of research that proves things to not be false, let alone proving things to be true.

Again, NOBODY here is saying to rely solely on the human element and nobody is saying to avoid the computers at all costs. They're saying that the computers need to be taken within their context (which is quite straight forward) and mixed with the human aspect of the game (which is quite complex).

There is a reason why Kasperov defeated Deep Blue...

[CrazyCat]

Last year the "computers" really liked MSU for some reason. This year not so much.

[dystopiamembrane]

There is a reason why Kasperov defeated Deep Blue...There are human brains that function on some data sets, like a chess game, very well. I'm certain there are some that can function on the football season set very well also. I hazard a guess that none of them are sitting on the tournament selection committee.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

There are human brains that function on some data sets, like a chess game, very well. I'm certain there are some that can function on the football season set very well also. I hazard a guess that none of them are sitting on the tournament selection committee.

That's why we need to do our best here dystop! Those minds are here and the selection committee needs our help. xlolx

[dystopiamembrane]

That's why we need to do our best here dystop! Those minds are here and the selection committee needs our help. xlolxImpressed. To whom are you referring?

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Impressed. To whom are you referring?

Guess you are not picking up on the emoticon at the end there. You aren't by chance a computer yourself are you?

[dystopiamembrane]

Guess you are not picking up on the emoticon at the end there. You aren't by chance a computer yourself are you?no, I was ignoring it, because I didn't think that you would act that way,

[B.T.C.]

There are human brains that function on some data sets, like a chess game, very well. I'm certain there are some that can function on the football season set very well also. I hazard a guess that none of them are sitting on the tournament selection committee.

So you don't believe in the power and value of crowd sourcing? Your computers should tell you that with a large enough sample size, accuracy should be had within some margin of error. That's why your computers run 10,000 simulations and not just 10.

[dystopiamembrane]

So you don't believe in the power and value of crowd sourcing? Your computers should tell you that with a large enough sample size, accuracy should be had within some margin of error. That's why your computers run 10,000 simulations and not just 10.
Less than 100 people participate in our poll and fewer than that on the selection committee.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

no, I was ignoring it, because I didn't think that you would act that way,

Oh I'll poke fun at us as much as anyone.

[B.T.C.]

Less than 100 people participate in our poll and fewer than that on the selection committee.

Correct. And they're doing so with better samples in front of them in Week 2, Week 3...Week 7, Week 8...Week 10, Week 11...

The adjustment because of both the statistical AND visual samples is refined again and again, making the crowdsourcing effort a lot deeper than 'less than 100'.

(I would like to note that this is an excellent conversation, despite the differences in opinion.)

[melloware13]

http://girltalk247.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/6a00d83451b8c369e20128760e172b970c.gif

So CCU is like Delaware's greek life. Makes me terrified of a possible trip to Conway in December... (maybe will have to stay in Lumberton)

[Twentysix]

WHEN we rise these people will be WITH US! They are westerners. NOT yankee scum.

By your definition ND and SD aren't northerners either. During the Civil war Montana was part of the Dakota Territory.

http://www.dioramic.com/dioramic/Civil_War_Facts_files/TerritoriesConfederate%20StatesBorder%20StatesUnio n%20StatesMo.Ky.W.V.KansasIowaIll.Ind.OhioPa.India n.png

[superman7515]

By your definition ND and SD aren't northerners either. During the Civil war Montana was part of the Dakota Territory.

http://www.dioramic.com/dioramic/Civil_War_Facts_files/TerritoriesConfederate%20StatesBorder%20StatesUnio n%20StatesMo.Ky.W.V.KansasIowaIll.Ind.OhioPa.India n.png

New Castle County would go back to Pennsylvania, but the rest of Delaware would join the eastern shore of Maryland and Virginia and head south.

[GoCats23]

That loss is but one of a giant number of factors that an algorithm can use to determine a ranking. It's not a hammer. It's factored in equivalently to the win against NAU, for example. Should that win be given less merit because NAU was missing a player or some such? Data is data.

But NAU wasn't missing their best player and leader of four years. Their best player, Bauman, was completely shut down. So why would we get punished for something like that?

[HensRock]

Take out the lower ranked auto-bids and I'd be willing to bet that the AGS poll correctly picks over 90% of the playoff teams (i.e. 20 of the teams selected will be in the top 22 of the AGS poll). So yes, the AGS top 22 does approximate the playoff field, whereas computer models typically do not.

Why should they have to be taken out? They shouldn't be there in the first place - that is my point. In my opinion, picking the correct playoff field should not be the goal of the AGS Top 25. I cringe every time someone says that the AGS Poll is the most accurate predictor of the playoff field. That's great and everything, but I believe it's goal should be to identify the 25 best FCS teams. Period.

Delaware is not in my Top 25, nor is James Madison or Wofford. I'm fine with some people disagreeing.
But Charleston Southern is not even in my Top 50.

[lionsrking2]

I can recall at least twice where we picked up 7 and 8 yards on first down and on both occasions ran a screen play on second down and a long pass on 3rd down. One of those passes were intercepted and the other was caught by the receiver 5 yards out of bounds. No excuses here SELA played a good game. I am not sure that even on our best day we would have beat them. With that being said it was not our best outing. I am not sure why I am surprised when that is the norm for the McNeese teams of late.

We were averaging right at 5 yards a carry but only ran the ball 18 times. The coaches were stuck on passing the ball.

I get what you're saying and don't blame you for wishing the game plan would have been different in hindsight, but averaging five yards doesn't mean you were getting five EVERY carry. A third of your rushing total came on three plays, with the longest run coming after it was 20-0. If your coaches felt like they were really running it that well, they would have stuck with it, and honestly, I thought they did for a while ... throwing the ball on 2nd and short is a great play-action down, so hard to blame your coaches for trying to show balance. You just couldn't get anybody open, and when you did, Stroud had Lions in his face. From watching all of McNeese's game tapes, he was used to having clean pockets and receivers getting separation. It's a much tougher assignment when windows are small, the pocket is getting squeezed, and the ball has to get out quick.

[Grizzlies82]

By your definition ND and SD aren't northerners either. During the Civil war Montana was part of the Dakota Territory.

http://www.dioramic.com/dioramic/Civil_War_Facts_files/TerritoriesConfederate%20StatesBorder%20StatesUnio n%20StatesMo.Ky.W.V.KansasIowaIll.Ind.OhioPa.India n.png

You should just be grateful we allowed the Dakotas to keep any of the Dakota Territory.
In hindsight we should have kept a little more... say everything west of the Missouri River. :)

[Twentysix]

You should just be grateful we allowed the Dakotas to keep any of the Dakota Territory.
In hindsight we should have kept a little more... say everything west of the Missouri River. :)

You could never be from the place of "the good people of the north". I could see those assholes referred to as "Good people of the south" being part of Montana though.

[msupokes1]

I get what you're saying and don't blame you for wishing the game plan would have been different in hindsight, but averaging five yards doesn't mean you were getting five EVERY carry. A third of your rushing total came on three plays, with the longest run coming after it was 20-0. If your coaches felt like they were really running it that well, they would have stuck with it, and honestly, I thought they did for a while ... throwing the ball on 2nd and short is a great play-action down, so hard to blame your coaches for trying to show balance. You just couldn't get anybody open, and when you did, Stroud had Lions in his face. From watching all of McNeese's game tapes, he was used to having clean pockets and receivers getting separation. It's a much tougher assignment when windows are small, the pocket is getting squeezed, and the ball has to get out quick.

I am over it. Moving on to next game. SLU did what they had to. I am still of the belief that McNeese S**t the bed (which we are accustomed to doing) rather than SLU being that much better. SLU has a good team. I guess the recurring theme of McNeese not showing up for big games I should just admit to myself that they are not good. I have a hard time doing that.

[citdog]

By your definition ND and SD aren't northerners either. During the Civil war Montana was part of the Dakota Territory.

http://www.dioramic.com/dioramic/Civil_War_Facts_files/TerritoriesConfederate%20StatesBorder%20StatesUnio n%20StatesMo.Ky.W.V.KansasIowaIll.Ind.OhioPa.India n.png


It is a gross misuse of the english language to refer to our conflict with the yankees as a 'civil war'. The map is wrong as the Indian Territory Seceded as did Missouri and Kentucky. Both had 'rump regimes' like vichy, france who remained 'loyal'. Maryland would have Seceded if the great tyrant lincoln didn't imprison without charges the State Legislature. your hero was a tyrant on the order of stalin, pol pot, or mao.

[Houndawg]

It is a gross misuse of the english language to refer to our conflict with the yankees as a 'civil war'. The map is wrong as the Indian Territory Seceded as did Missouri and Kentucky. Both had 'rump regimes' like vichy, france who remained 'loyal'. Maryland would have Seceded if the great tyrant lincoln didn't imprison without charges the State Legislature. your hero was a tyrant on the order of stalin, pol pot, or mao.

It was the officials! xrolleyesx

You sound like clenz.

[Professor Chaos]

Why should they have to be taken out? They shouldn't be there in the first place - that is my point. In my opinion, picking the correct playoff field should not be the goal of the AGS Top 25. I cringe every time someone says that the AGS Poll is the most accurate predictor of the playoff field. That's great and everything, but I believe it's goal should be to identify the 25 best FCS teams. Period.

Delaware is not in my Top 25, nor is James Madison or Wofford. I'm fine with some people disagreeing.
But Charleston Southern is not even in my Top 50.
The goals are no different. The goal of the playoff selection committee is to identify the 13 best non-automatic qualifiers and identify the 8 best teams overall. This goal of the AGS Poll is to identify the 25 best teams overall. Thus the reason why you'll hear people say that the AGS poll is a playoff predictor.

[Lehigh'98]

Open your eyes, my brothers and sisters. When I was in college, there was no such thing as Google. Now that there is, we no longer need to search using a card catalog.

By your logic, eventually, given enough time and the correct inputs, computers will be able to predict final scores of the games accurately before they occur.

I actually believe that computers have the ability to do better than the point spread on a consistent basis, but haven't figured it out yet. That's where I'd be focusing my energy, not rankings.

[dystopiamembrane]

By your logic, eventually, given enough time and the correct inputs, computers will be able to predict final scores of the games accurately before they occur.

I actually believe that computers have the ability to do better than the point spread on a consistent basis, but haven't figured it out yet. That's where I'd be focusing my energy, not rankings.Why focus your energy on point spreads?

[Lehigh'98]

Why focus your energy on point spreads?

I think accurate predictive models add more value (perhaps this is for selfish reasons ) than data after the fact.

[Walkon79]

WHEN we rise these people will be WITH US! They are westerners. NOT yankee scum.

Many in the northern states, especially Montana, migrated from Missouri, Oklahoma and Texas after the turn of the century


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[Engineer86]

Why focus your energy on point spreads?

Most people that work in the financial industry will tell you that models can be great tool but the minute you use them to provide the answer and ignore judgement you end up with ..... xcoffeex

the financial crisis xrotatehx

Judgement based on experience should always be used.