FBS My A$$

[Appaholic]

xcoffeex

[49RFootballNow]

Any chance Satterfield's seat will get warm if this continues till December?

[Apphole]

OT on the road ain't bad for a team with no head coach.

[Apphole]

But I really don't see what the peons are getting at by desperately attributing this abysmal year to the FBS move. We chose the wrong coach. This would be happening with or without the FBS coming move.

[ASU_Fanatic]

Any chance Satterfield's seat will get warm if this continues till December?
I think it has to. Don't see him getting fired but his leash will be very short next year. This is a joke.

[CID1990]

Field goal Citadel!!

[DoWe]

A loss on the road in OT by a FG is not a poor effort. As I understand it the appies had to drive the field with little time left to force OT, and had a turnover on their OT possession. It was certainly a better showing than JM's had team last year in Boone.

[clenz]

A loss on the road in OT by a FG is not a poor effort. As I understand it the appies had to drive the field with little time left to force OT, and had a turnover on their OT possession. It was certainly a better showing than JM's had team last year in Boone.
In a vacuum not bad...

When put in with the rest of the season...it's a bad thing

[Southern Bison]

But I really don't see what the peons are getting at by desperately attributing this abysmal year to the FBS move. We chose the wrong coach. This would be happening with or without the FBS coming move.

After watching a couple App & GaSo games, I think some of the play does have to do with the FBS move. I haven't seen the drive or the heart in the Eagle or Mountaineer players like I've witnessed in the past. It sucks not having something significant to play for. I'm not slamming either program, but just surprised that the FCS fans are seeing this from two of the best programs in it's 40+ year history, IMO.

[Apphole]

After watching a couple App & GaSo games, I think some of the play does have to do with the FBS move. I haven't seen the drive or the heart in the Eagle or Mountaineer players like I've witnessed in the past. It sucks not having something significant to play for. I'm not slamming either program, but just surprised that the FCS fans are seeing this from two of the best programs in it's 40+ year history, IMO.

Well wouldn't that be related more-so to the forced "transition period" and the post-season/conference championship ban?

[dgtw]

Having nothing to play for didn't hurt Ohio State last year.

[Southern Bison]

Having nothing to play for didn't hurt Ohio State last year.

Then OSU handled it better than GaSo & App are.

[clenz]

Having nothing to play for didn't hurt Ohio State last year.

fOSU had a huge chip on their shoulder thinking they didn't deserve the ban...apparently not realizing had they not fought the issue the year before they wouldn't have had to play for nothing last season

Sent from my SCH-R530U using Tapatalk 2

[CID1990]

Boo frickin Hoo "nothing to play for".

That's a load of crap. What about playing for your school? For pride?

Hell most seasons The Citadel doesn't have anything to play for by the time the season is halfway over, but our kids still play hard and still beat some people they aren't supposed to. Maybe some folks should try recruiting for character as much as athletic ability. If I was a head coach and I thought my players weren't giving 100% just because they don't have some damn trophy to play for I'd bench every one of their a$$es and start the scrubs every game.

Nothing to play for is a chicken**** excuse for not being all that good.

[clenz]

Boo frickin Hoo "nothing to play for".

That's a load of crap. What about playing for your school? For pride?

Hell most seasons The Citadel doesn't have anything to play for by the time the season is halfway over, but our kids still play hard and still beat some people they aren't supposed to. Maybe some folks should try recruiting for character as much as athletic ability. If I was a head coach and I thought my players weren't giving 100% just because they don't have some damn trophy to play for I'd bench every one of their a$$es and start the scrubs every game.

Nothing to play for is a chicken**** excuse for not being all that good.

Agreed a billion percent

Sent from my SCH-R530U using Tapatalk 2

[robsnotes4u]

Boo frickin Hoo "nothing to play for".

That's a load of crap. What about playing for your school? For pride?

Hell most seasons The Citadel doesn't have anything to play for by the time the season is halfway over, but our kids still play hard and still beat some people they aren't supposed to. Maybe some folks should try recruiting for character as much as athletic ability. If I was a head coach and I thought my players weren't giving 100% just because they don't have some damn trophy to play for I'd bench every one of their a$$es and start the scrubs every game.

Nothing to play for is a chicken**** excuse for not being all that good.

Exactly.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[dgtw]

If they finish with the best record in the SoCon, they could still say they were the real conference champs and few people outside of Chattanooga would argue with them, especially if they beat whoever got the autobid.

So I'd say they still had something to play for.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

Having nothing to play for didn't hurt Ohio State last year.

Not a fair comparison. Ohio State wasn't transitioning into a league where they can't compete on a national level and moving into a tougher conference schedule. GSU and App. State both use competing for SoCon and national championships as recruiting pitches. That, and they have more players woh have NFL dreams to play for. I think this is affecting play but not that much. Both teams seem to have issues other than this.

GSU has lost our top 3 fullbacks and has been trying to figure out how to improvise. I haven't followed App. closely, but it seems to me like either the offensive changes are causing growing pains or Satterfield is just in over his head.

[theasushow]

I think ASU started the season with every intention of playing their Hearts out. But the Montana and NCAT disasters really sucked the life out of them, and they haven't (and probably won't) recover. Sitting at 1-4 with Georgia and the meat of the SOCON coming up will probably result in ASU playing like a bunch of honey badgers.

[Saint3333]

Any chance Satterfield's seat will get warm if this continues till December?

Nope. He'll get two more recruiting classes at a minimum. We'll be fine, no matter what Gonzo thinks, Satt will be fine too.

[T-Dog]

Satterfield isn't going anywhere unless he can be fired without getting any further salary.

The basic problem is that this team doesn't know how to win. Bad mistakes at bad times. However, they can be fixable.

[ASU_Fanatic]

I'm really surprised a lot of the App fans are remaining relatively calm

[Twentysix]

I'm really surprised a lot of the App fans are remaining relatively calm

No playoffs, and no chance at an FBS title, so who cares? When we were 1-7 in 2009 we were screaming for Bohls head. Thank god cooler tempers prevailed. Maybe he will work out after he has some more time.

[Eagle22]

If GSU returned the bulk of the 2012 team and we were playing like this, I'd agree it would appear that GSU didn't have their heart in it. We've certainly not played well on the road thus far, but so far I attribute our road output to a combination of injuries, russian roulette offensive identity, a scoop of defensive youth and teams simply playing that are better than we are at this point of the season.

Of course I'm a big fan of the program, but I also believe I'm fairly objective about this team. IF we were playoff eligible this year, as it is composed today, we would likely not make the field of 24. This is a 7-4 kind of club we have this year. Our defense reminds me of our 1998 unit, only we don't have the offensive juggernaut we had that year that masked a lot of poor defensive games.

Haven't seen the quit from the team, but in the two road games I have seen very slow starts that have hampered any sort of offensive rythym. Once we found some, we inexplicably tried to do other things and promptly lost any positive momentum we had.

[Apphole]

Nope. He'll get two more recruiting classes at a minimum. We'll be fine, no matter what Gonzo thinks, Satt will be fine too.
?

You've got the wrong guy. I've been more optimistic than most on the MMB.

[Saint3333]

OT on the road ain't bad for a team with no head coach.

Were you drunk then or now?

[The Eagle's Cliff]

FBS has nothing to do with it. For GSU, there are many injuries, but we're just getting beat up front, the defense is horrible, the offense has no rhythm, and the blocking is non-existant, The good news is it looks like we have a good QB for next year and the youth are getting lots of game experience.

App will be fine.

One thing about FBS that FCS fans seem to forget is those players on the recruiting fringe who want to "play D1" and choose a G5 school over an FCS program. There's that and then there's the player you would offer a scholly to if you had it to give who ends up at another school. Whether we like to admit it or not, perception trumps reality and most FBS schools are automatically "better" than FCS in the minds of the uninformed public, including 18 year old recruits. The less densely populated areas don't have the same issue and the Northeasterners care less about college football than any other region.

[paward]

I guess the GSU visit to the rock will take on a new meaning this year. It has always been penciled high on my list of game to watch. It will be pegged the "Future FBS Championship Bowl". Formerly known as Who will represent the Socon in the Championship Game.

[Smitty]

I'm really surprised a lot of the App fans are remaining relatively calm

You should read their forums

[OL FU]

I guess the GSU visit to the rock will take on a new meaning this year. It has always been penciled high on my list of game to watch. It will be pegged the "Future FBS Championship Bowl". Formerly known as Who will represent the Socon in the Championship Game.

No offense but GSU hasn't represented the SoCon in the championship game since 2000 and as much as we suck now there has been a school to do so besides ASU since GSU was there:p

[paward]

No offense but GSU hasn't represented the SoCon in the championship game since 2000 and as much as we suck now there has been a school to do so besides ASU since GSU was there:p

My thoughts get a little blurred thinking of the banners flying over both stadiums.

[OL FU]

My thoughts get a little blurred thinking of the banners flying over both stadiums.

:D I can understand that. There is certainly a difference in winning it and being there. I too seem to forget how long it has been:o

[Sandlapper Spike]

I couldn't understand why App didn't try to throw deep against The Citadel on a regular basis, or force-feed Price every chance it got, but I guess maybe the combination of QB/OL play didn't really allow for it. Londry-Jackson...why is he playing at all?

Cox is a very good back, though. I was impressed by him.

[Apphole]

Were you drunk then or now?
The guy is clearly in over his head right now, Saint. Will he learn and become a good HC? I think and hope so. Do I think the program and season are doomed? Not by a long shot.

Calling a spade a spade is a lot different than the sort of belly aching I've been reading from some other App fans. Regretably, I was relatively sober during and after the game.

[Tribal]

Not a fair comparison. Ohio State wasn't transitioning into a league where they can't compete on a national level and moving into a tougher conference schedule. GSU and App. State both use competing for SoCon and national championships as recruiting pitches. That, and they have more players woh have NFL dreams to play for. I think this is affecting play but not that much. Both teams seem to have issues other than this.

GSU has lost our top 3 fullbacks and has been trying to figure out how to improvise. I haven't followed App. closely, but it seems to me like either the offensive changes are causing growing pains or Satterfield is just in over his head.

GSU claimed its goal this season was to "break records." That explains running up the score on SSU types. Once that bubble burst against Wofford, the team has simply not played as hard (most GSU fans' opinion, not mine).

[PantherRob82]

I'm not slamming either program, but just surprised that the FCS fans are seeing this from two of the best programs in it's 40+ year history, IMO.

FCS is about 30 years old. ;)

[T-Dog]

I couldn't understand why App didn't try to throw deep against The Citadel on a regular basis, or force-feed Price every chance it got, but I guess maybe the combination of QB/OL play didn't really allow for it. Londry-Jackson...why is he playing at all?

Cox is a very good back, though. I was impressed by him.

I think part of the reason is what happened last week. We threw and got touchdowns in two minutes and put our tired defense right back on the field.

[Mr. C]

FCS is about 30 years old. ;)
This is the 36th year of FCS (1978-2013). He was closer than you were.

[CID1990]

I think part of the reason is what happened last week. We threw and got touchdowns in two minutes and put our tired defense right back on the field.

Scatter field and his staff either misinterpreted the film on us, or disregarded it completely. If they had seen the ODU or Furman film, they'd have tossed it to Price all day. And they would have been successful with it.

[CID1990]

Satterfield. Stupid autocorrect

[AppMan]

ASU's returning preseason POY QB loses all confidence and is replaced by a soph who had taken 3 snaps in a college game. Due to poor recruiting ASU's O-line is just not very good. A walk on and converted DL are among the starters. The best player on offense is arguably a freshman RB and the preseason AA WR sat the first two games. Out of 11 defensive starters taking the field in Charleston, 5 had never started a game prior the season. App's starting line up was 5 freshmen, 2 soph's, & 4 sr's. Only 1 of the seniors had started more than 10 games, 2 are walk ons and another hasn't played defense in 2 years. App's best player on defensive has missed the last 2 games including yesterday. 75% of App's 74 scholarship players are freshmen and sophomores. There are 10 seniors on this team - 4 of them are walk on's. This is a work in progress. A lapse in recruiting under Jerry Moore the last 3-4 years has put App in a bad situation. Some call it Jerry Moore bashing. I call it telling the truth. Numbers don't lie.

[Saint3333]

Each game it seems we find another freshman that is going to be a good one. DT Small looked good and will be a player the next three years.

Blair will likely red shirt now.


Cox, Law, Small, and Price are going to be fun to match the next two years. Let the young guys play and learn this year. It worked in 2004.

[PaladinFan]

Hard as it might be to believe, App might be favored in only one game from here on out (WCU). They will easily lose to UGA, and be heavy underdogs against UTC, Samford, Wofford, and GSU. I think they'll be a toss up against Furman.

I don't think we'll see it, but a 2-10 season might be well within reality.

[catamount man]

Western Carolina (1-10) vs Appalachian State (1-10) on November 23?

[PaladinFan]

Western Carolina (1-10) vs Appalachian State (1-10) on November 23?

That would be epic.

[Eagle22]

Hard as it might be to believe, App might be favored in only one game from here on out (WCU). They will easily lose to UGA, and be heavy underdogs against UTC, Samford, Wofford, and GSU. I think they'll be a toss up against Furman.

I don't think we'll see it, but a 2-10 season might be well within reality.

Unless we improve, ASU won't be an underdog vs. us in Boone, much less a heavy underdog. We've only won three games there since 1993 if I'm not mistaken.

I'm hoping yesterday's second half was just a confluence of a lot of bad decisions, injuries and inexperience ... but that is just hope. Will know more next week after our game vs. the low country Bulldogs.

[ASUG8]

There was very little spark until the 4th quarter IMO and the box score doesn't really indicate how one-sided it seemed at times. We kept asking each other "when are they going for a deep route" or "where's the occasional mix up in plays" but it didn't come until a failed flea flicker in the fourth. ASU's playbook was/is very conservative, still trying to establish a running game deep into the third when the passing lanes were available. Offensive line looked very permeable, and neither QB had much time in the pocket for anything other than a quick screen for much of the game. We also need to decide on a QB full time....if Kam is the guy, let's get him battle tested for next year. If Jackson is healthy enough, get him in there more...it's a disruption at this point to change it up. I think at this point Kam is more athletic and mobile, but not as strong on decision making as Jackson. Let's hope they can get this resolved sooner rather than later.

I do like Cox....he will be a huge asset going forward.

[Saint3333]

I'm not sure we trust Kam throwing the deep ball. Jackson can't run. We don't want to burn Lamb's redshirt.

our options are limited.

[chattownmocs]

What's the big surprise? App State wasn't much better last year.

[chattownmocs]

Each game it seems we find another freshman that is going to be a good one. DT Small looked good and will be a player the next three years.

Blair will likely red shirt now.


Cox, Law, Small, and Price are going to be fun to match the next two years. Let the young guys play and learn this year. It worked in 2004.

Law and Small were at one time Chattanooga commits. Huesman said App State beat him for recruits about 80 percent of the time head to head. Maybe app should have recruited more of the talent that Hues man found on defense.

[Saint3333]

App beat UTC for recruits who knew.

Get your comments in now, 80% of your SoCon audience will not be reading your drivel in approximately 3 months

[chattownmocs]

App beat UTC for recruits who knew.

Get your comments in now, 80% of your SoCon audience will not be reading your drivel in approximately 3 months

I don't think they went head to head much. App probably had their sights set on higher targets while Hues man evaluated better defensively.

But I didn't know that. He said this when asked how App and GSU leaving would affect recruiting. He said app not much because they beat him 80% of the time anyway. Georgia Southern he said was 50/50 and everyone else in the conference much less.

[ASUG8]

Satterfield. Stupid autocorrect

Nah, you were right the first time.

[SpeedkingATL]

Tough season but 3 losses by 3 points each. There were the type of games that App usually won in the past. The coaching changes and transition to 3-4 have resulted in too many mistakes and the inability to make the big play when needed. App was in decent shape on Saturday until Cam fumbled the ball on Apps 20 yard line leading to a big score and mental lift to the Citdogs. Then in the second half deciding to punt on 4th and 4 on Citdogs 38 rather than go for it was not the "Always Attack" mode...then to top it off an 11 yard punt resulted. These are the type of mistakes losing teams make. Dupree had a great game again for Citadel and App just didn't make the key plays... Citadel did.

On a personal note, it was hot as hell in the stands but an enjoyable game with both teams giving a good effort.

[seantaylor]

No offense but GSU hasn't represented the SoCon in the championship game since 2000 and as much as we suck now there has been a school to do so besides ASU since GSU was there:p

Did you win that game? How many playoffs since then? Furman is the definition of an also-ran.

[HappyAppy]

Tough season but 3 losses by 3 points each. There were the type of games that App usually won in the past. The coaching changes and transition to 3-4 have resulted in too many mistakes and the inability to make the big play when needed. App was in decent shape on Saturday until Cam fumbled the ball on Apps 20 yard line leading to a big score and mental lift to the Citdogs. Then in the second half deciding to punt on 4th and 4 on Citdogs 38 rather than go for it was not the "Always Attack" mode...then to top it off an 11 yard punt resulted. These are the type of mistakes losing teams make. Dupree had a great game again for Citadel and App just didn't make the key plays... Citadel did.

On a personal note, it was hot as hell in the stands but an enjoyable game with both teams giving a good effort.

I agree.

We are going to be just fine. A first year head coach and a new defensive coordinator installing a new defensive scheme with a bunch of freshman and sophomores. Of course there are going to be growing pains.

As much as it sucks to go out of the SoCon with such a wimper, the timing of this really couldn't be any better. Let the coaches and the underclassmen take their lumps against a bunch of teams we will never play again (no disrespect intended). We should be much better next year, and really good in two years (which also happens to be our first full FBS year).

[OL FU]

Did you win that game? How many playoffs since then? Furman is the definition of an also-ran.

**** for the first time in a year I read a Sean Taylor post. Now I know why I had that vomit taste in the back of my throat.:( ****I N G Toolxthumbsdownx

[PaladinFan]

I agree.

We are going to be just fine. A first year head coach and a new defensive coordinator installing a new defensive scheme with a bunch of freshman and sophomores. Of course there are going to be growing pains.

As much as it sucks to go out of the SoCon with such a wimper, the timing of this really couldn't be any better. Let the coaches and the underclassmen take their lumps against a bunch of teams we will never play again (no disrespect intended). We should be much better next year, and really good in two years (which also happens to be our first full FBS year).

Maybe. I can tell you from the perspective of a fan watching his team rebuild that it is not necessarily an overnight affair. I think that will particularly true next season where the teams are going to be that much tougher and the road trips that much longer.

[ASUMountaineer]

What's the big surprise? App State wasn't much better last year.

Good enough to beat Chatty...again.

[walliver]

Maybe. I can tell you from the perspective of a fan watching his team rebuild that it is not necessarily an overnight affair. I think that will particularly true next season where the teams are going to be that much tougher and the road trips that much longer.

They are playing Georgia State next year.

The Sunbelt may have advance their level of play over the last few years, but it is primarily by teams playing in the western division. Travel will be a little longer, but essentially they still play Southern, replace Samford with Troy, and UTC with GaSt. Idaho and NMSU will be longer trips, but probably more favorable venues (go ahead and pencil in a win or two)

I agree that next year will probably not be a breakout year. It will probably be 2015 before the Mountaineers have the lines they need to compete with ULL and Arkansas State.

[Sandlapper Spike]

I agree that next year will probably not be a breakout year. It will probably be 2015 before the Mountaineers have the lines they need to compete with ULL and Arkansas State.

It's possible that by 2015 one or both of ULL and Arkansas State won't be in the Sun Belt any more, anyway.

[Waco Kid]

Scatter field and his staff either misinterpreted the film on us, or disregarded it completely. If they had seen the ODU or Furman film, they'd have tossed it to Price all day. And they would have been successful with it.

One big problem is our line can't protect long enough for those deep routes to open up. I was more upset that we waited until 1:00 to go to run the screen to Cox. That play has produced big gains repeatedly (as it did when we finally ran it ). The one time we did throw deep to Price he gave up on the route after Bryant pump faked.

[chattownmocs]

Good enough to beat Chatty...again.

And that's about all. Their point differential was about plus 2 and in the negative against the rest of the conference.

[PaladinFan]

It's possible that by 2015 one or both of ULL and Arkansas State won't be in the Sun Belt any more, anyway.

This might be a good time to mention it took Monroe nearly 20 years to have a winning season.

I imagine it will take App a good deal longer than two seasons to have a breakout season.

[WH49er]

I think it has to. Don't see him getting fired but his leash will be very short next year. This is a joke.


If this is the case, he is probably gone next year. I say this because your road schedule is brutal next year:

Home: Georgia State, Idaho, South Alabama, ULM
Road: Arkansas State, Georgia Southern, Troy, UL Lafayette

[ASUMountaineer]

And that's about all. Their point differential was about plus 2 and in the negative against the rest of the conference.

Still won the conference. 1984. xlolx

[ASUMountaineer]

This might be a good time to mention it took Monroe nearly 20 years to have a winning season.

I imagine it will take App a good deal longer than two seasons to have a breakout season.

That could never happen to a team that has played for a national title at the FCS level...right?

[Appaholic]

But I really don't see what the peons are getting at by desperately attributing this abysmal year to the FBS move. We chose the wrong coach. This would be happening with or without the FBS coming move.

Not attributing this current dumpster fire to the move to FBS, but acknowledging the fact that a team struggling to compete at an FCS level doesn't really have any business moving to FBS. If they wanted more of a challenge than the SoCon could provide, they could have moved to CAA. Or better yet, the Southland given our historic struggles against teams from that conference.

Again, I stick by my earlier statement.....App State is a solid FCS program that had one great class resulting in back-to-back-to-back national titles. Even with arguably, the most dominant player in modern FCS times & a legendary coach, we could not return to the title game in 2008 or 2009 once that class had graduated. Why App fans seem to think we have "outgrown" FCS competition is beyond me. App has not sustained success out of conference any better in past 5 years than they did the previous 2 decades prior to 2005. Ga South has won back-to-back titles 3 different occasions with 3 different head coaches. Apps been to semi's as many times as Ga South has won titles. That is the definition of a program with sustainable success on a national level. App's not there, and given our current product on the field, it's going to be a while if ever before we get there. We can hope to achieve the same success as Marshall some day....

[Lehigh Football Nation]

a solid FCS program that had one great class resulting in back-to-back-to-back national titles

Sign me up.

[walliver]

That could never happen to a team that has played for a national title at the FCS level...right?

ULM only won one I-AA title (as NE Louisiana). Since ASU has won 3 then maybe it will just take 6.66 years to have a winning season.:)

[ElCid]

Not attributing this current dumpster fire to the move to FBS, but acknowledging the fact that a team struggling to compete at an FCS level doesn't really have any business moving to FBS. If they wanted more of a challenge than the SoCon could provide, they could have moved to CAA. Or better yet, the Southland given our historic struggles against teams from that conference.

Again, I stick by my earlier statement.....App State is a solid FCS program that had one great class resulting in back-to-back-to-back national titles. Even with arguably, the most dominant player in modern FCS times & a legendary coach, we could not return to the title game in 2008 or 2009 once that class had graduated. Why App fans seem to think we have "outgrown" FCS competition is beyond me. App has not sustained success out of conference any better in past 5 years than they did the previous 2 decades prior to 2005. Ga South has won back-to-back titles 3 different occasions with 3 different head coaches. Apps been to semi's as many times as Ga South has won titles. That is the definition of a program with sustainable success on a national level. App's not there, and given our current product on the field, it's going to be a while if ever before we get there. We can hope to achieve the same success as Marshall some day....

Wow, you even made me feel bad for you guys, well maybe just a little. I think the timing was just a little off. If you had moved in 10 or 11 the momentum would have still been better. Marshall moved at their peak so it carried them immediately and it continued for about 7 years, albeit in the MAC. This is, until they got lost in mediocrity first while still in the MAC and then CUSA. I am not sure if I would want to emulate them in the long run in that regard. Bouncing slightly above and below .500 for 9 years is not App's style. As it is, I think you have to overcome the negative momentum now, so yeah, I agree it might take a few years longer. You just better hope you don't end up like UMass with probably two dismal seasons (so far) or Middle Tenn St who has had 5 winning seasons in 14 since moving. MTSU had not been a IAA/FCS force for years when they moved and it showed.

[CID1990]

I would hope ASU would want to emulate ECU more than Marshall. Just on TPF alone if nothing else.

[boonegoon]

I would hope ASU would want to emulate ECU more than Marshall. Just on TPF alone if nothing else.
I think if we could match ECU it would be considered an enormous success. ECU is arguably the best football program in NC for the last 20 years.

[AppMan]

Not attributing this current dumpster fire to the move to FBS, but acknowledging the fact that a team struggling to compete at an FCS level doesn't really have any business moving to FBS. If they wanted more of a challenge than the SoCon could provide, they could have moved to CAA. Or better yet, the Southland given our historic struggles against teams from that conference.

Again, I stick by my earlier statement.....App State is a solid FCS program that had one great class resulting in back-to-back-to-back national titles. Even with arguably, the most dominant player in modern FCS times & a legendary coach, we could not return to the title game in 2008 or 2009 once that class had graduated. Why App fans seem to think we have "outgrown" FCS competition is beyond me. App has not sustained success out of conference any better in past 5 years than they did the previous 2 decades prior to 2005. Ga South has won back-to-back titles 3 different occasions with 3 different head coaches. Apps been to semi's as many times as Ga South has won titles. That is the definition of a program with sustainable success on a national level. App's not there, and given our current product on the field, it's going to be a while if ever before we get there. We can hope to achieve the same success as Marshall some day....

App's problems are simple. Following those 3 NC's our suddenly legendary coach spent too much time on the lecture and golf circuit enjoying his celebrity status instead of recruiting. We have paid the price the last 4 years and won a lot of games by the skin of our teeth. We have been skating on thin ice for several years. This season it finally gave way.

2010- Without a freak win over UTC and a 3 pt win over Elon (after giving up gave up over 500 yards) we are 7-3 and in danger of not making the playoffs. Where we got dismantled by Villanova.

2011- Another freak win over UTC by 2 (after returning a fumble and a INT for TD's), loss to Wofford by 2 TD's, 7 pt win at Citadel after being up 35-14, loss to Furman, stealing one from Elon by 4 (they out gained us big time). Could have easily been 5- 6.
Oh yea, we got smoked again in playoffs by Maine.

2012- Avoided a 0-3 start when we picked off a pass to beat Montana at home, we lose to Samford w/0 without a circus catch by Price, loss to Wofford, give up almost 200 more yards on offense to Furman but hang on to win by 5. Could have easily been 5-6. Oh yea, we got smoked by Ill State in the playoffs.

[Saint3333]

Appoholicsorry we aren't staying FCS, get on the bus or go ahead and jump off.

Back in the 70's I guess we should have stayed D2.


we'll be fine.


App State - proving the naysayers wrong since 1899.

[Apphole]

I would hope ASU would want to emulate ECU more than Marshall. Just on TPF alone if nothing else.

Either one would be fine with me.

[Appaholic]

Wow, you even made me feel bad for you guys, well maybe just a little. I think the timing was just a little off. If you had moved in 10 or 11 the momentum would have still been better. Marshall moved at their peak so it carried them immediately and it continued for about 7 years, albeit in the MAC. This is, until they got lost in mediocrity first while still in the MAC and then CUSA. I am not sure if I would want to emulate them in the long run in that regard. Bouncing slightly above and below .500 for 9 years is not App's style. As it is, I think you have to overcome the negative momentum now, so yeah, I agree it might take a few years longer. You just better hope you don't end up like UMass with probably two dismal seasons (so far) or Middle Tenn St who has had 5 winning seasons in 14 since moving. MTSU had not been a IAA/FCS force for years when they moved and it showed.

Agree. But it doesn't really matter if it's our style, I'm afraid it's going to be our reality. Sorry, and I know I'm in the minority, but I preferred to stay FCS where we were competitive and played games against natural / regional /historical rivals. Obviously, that ship has left port. But to see us stumbling into this FBS gig by finding ways to lose to inferior opponents (historically) in FCS and getting our asses handed to us by contemporaries within FCS (Montana)...well, it's doing nothing to give me a warm fuzzy about moving to Sunbelt with one historical rival. I mean, if you were a D1 recruit in NC or SC who had their choice of playing at Charlotte against ECU & Marshall, or NC / NC state against FSU & Va Tech, or App where your family might get to see you play against Idaho or South Alabama....well, I know what the answer is going to be for a recruit who has no family ties to ASU. This is a bad move and we are not the program we were 6-8 years ago. All one has to do is look at the trajectory of this program (see AppMan's post) over the past 3 years....or if one needs further proof, wait until Georgia this year or, god forbid, Michigan next year....enjoy FBS folks!

[Appaholic]

Appoholicsorry we aren't staying FCS, get on the bus or go ahead and jump off.

Back in the 70's I guess we should have stayed D2.


we'll be fine.


App State - proving the naysayers wrong since 1899.

Hope you're right, but looking on the field and our trajectory, I fear you are wrong.....I really hope I am wrong.....

[Saint3333]

Join date of 2006, is that when you started following App?

[PaladinFan]

App's problems are simple. Following those 3 NC's our suddenly legendary coach spent too much time on the lecture and golf circuit enjoying his celebrity status instead of recruiting. We have paid the price the last 4 years and won a lot of games by the skin of our teeth. We have been skating on thin ice for several years. This season it finally gave way.

2010- Without a freak win over UTC and a 3 pt win over Elon (after giving up gave up over 500 yards) we are 7-3 and in danger of not making the playoffs. Where we got dismantled by Villanova.

2011- Another freak win over UTC by 2 (after returning a fumble and a INT for TD's), loss to Wofford by 2 TD's, 7 pt win at Citadel after being up 35-14, loss to Furman, stealing one from Elon by 4 (they out gained us big time). Could have easily been 5- 6.
Oh yea, we got smoked again in playoffs by Maine.

2012- Avoided a 0-3 start when we picked off a pass to beat Montana at home, we lose to Samford w/0 without a circus catch by Price, loss to Wofford, give up almost 200 more yards on offense to Furman but hang on to win by 5. Could have easily been 5-6. Oh yea, we got smoked by Ill State in the playoffs.

You failed to mention that in those good years you had arguably the best player in the history of the FCS. Coach Moore was on the hot seat in 2004 (I well remember many App fans calling for his ouster).

I do give App credit on capitalizing on a hot product, but it's hard for me to ignore that the team had Armanti Edwards for four years, went gang busters, he graduates and the team slowly gets worse each season.

[citdog]

Join date of 2006, is that when you started following App?


Jeebus Saint.......NEVER figured you for one who would eat your own. Appy STINKS this year........PRETTY sure 'Ol Jerry would be getting more out of this group than scotty has.

[Saint3333]

It just seems he may not understand App was a good FCS team before AE arrived, heck even before Moore arrived.

Many posters in this thread don't know who Dino, Settle, Mack, Scott, Dexter, etc. are. People are acting like App football started in 2005.

1984, 1993, 2004, and now 2013 App had bad teams, this isn't new to longtime App fans.

[SoCon2013]

It just seems he may not understand App was a good FCS team before AE arrived, heck even before Moore arrived.

Many posters in this thread don't know who Dino, Settle, Mack, Scott, Dexter, etc. are. People are acting like App football started in 2005.

1984, 1993, 2004, and now 2013 App had bad teams, this isn't new to longtime App fans.

6-5 in '04 with major talent coming back for '05 and 8-3 regular season 2013? What App wouldn't give for either of those records this season.

[SoCon2013]

But I really don't see what the peons are getting at by desperately attributing this abysmal year to the FBS move. We chose the wrong coach. This would be happening with or without the FBS coming move.

And aren't playing an FBS schedule yet. The only FBS game App has is Georgia and App hasn't seen them yet.

[Saint3333]

Cox, Price, Law, Collins, Gilchrist, Gray, Small. Remember these names App fans a year or two from now you are going to look back and realize we have some young talented players on this 2013 squad.

[SoCon2013]

Boo frickin Hoo "nothing to play for".

That's a load of crap. What about playing for your school? For pride?

Hell most seasons The Citadel doesn't have anything to play for by the time the season is halfway over, but our kids still play hard and still beat some people they aren't supposed to. Maybe some folks should try recruiting for character as much as athletic ability. If I was a head coach and I thought my players weren't giving 100% just because they don't have some damn trophy to play for I'd bench every one of their a$$es and start the scrubs every game.

Nothing to play for is a chicken**** excuse for not being all that good.

So The Cit squeaked by by a FG in OT to a team that is not all that good???????

[SoCon2013]

Not a fair comparison. Ohio State wasn't transitioning into a league where they can't compete on a national level and moving into a tougher conference schedule. GSU and App. State both use competing for SoCon and national championships as recruiting pitches. That, and they have more players woh have NFL dreams to play for. I think this is affecting play but not that much. Both teams seem to have issues other than this.

GSU has lost our top 3 fullbacks and has been trying to figure out how to improvise. I haven't followed App. closely, but it seems to me like either the offensive changes are causing growing pains or Satterfield is just in over his head.

May be both.

[SoCon2013]

App's problems are simple. Following those 3 NC's our suddenly legendary coach spent too much time on the lecture and golf circuit enjoying his celebrity status instead of recruiting. We have paid the price the last 4 years and won a lot of games by the skin of our teeth. We have been skating on thin ice for several years. This season it finally gave way.

2010- Without a freak win over UTC and a 3 pt win over Elon (after giving up gave up over 500 yards) we are 7-3 and in danger of not making the playoffs. Where we got dismantled by Villanova.

2011- Another freak win over UTC by 2 (after returning a fumble and a INT for TD's), loss to Wofford by 2 TD's, 7 pt win at Citadel after being up 35-14, loss to Furman, stealing one from Elon by 4 (they out gained us big time). Could have easily been 5- 6.
Oh yea, we got smoked again in playoffs by Maine.

2012- Avoided a 0-3 start when we picked off a pass to beat Montana at home, we lose to Samford w/0 without a circus catch by Price, loss to Wofford, give up almost 200 more yards on offense to Furman but hang on to win by 5. Could have easily been 5-6. Oh yea, we got smoked by Ill State in the playoffs.

Experienced coaches win the close games a large percentage of the times. What you call luck and circus catches was in part experienced coaching which is lacking at present..

[citdog]

It just seems he may not understand App was a good FCS team before AE arrived, heck even before Moore arrived.

Many posters in this thread don't know who Dino, Settle, Mack, Scott, Dexter, etc. are. People are acting like App football started in 2005.

1984, 1993, 2004, and now 2013 App had bad teams, this isn't new to longtime App fans.


I know who EVERY one of those fellas are and know your history. I know you do too that's why I am surprised at your reaction. Y'all are not very good and it hurts.....TRY being a fan of The Citadel on for size.....

[PhillyApp1]

It just seems he may not understand App was a good FCS team before AE arrived, heck even before Moore arrived.

Many posters in this thread don't know who Dino, Settle, Mack, Scott, Dexter, etc. are. People are acting like App football started in 2005.

1984, 1993, 2004, and now 2013 App had bad teams, this isn't new to longtime App fans.


You are 100% right Saint......Go APP and if you are a recent chicken watch from a distance.
Any true competitior doesn't quit after recent history.
Either you have the will to succeed and fight through the down side or you go home with your tail between your legs.

APP will fight the fight through the down side, i have 100% confidence !!

Appoholic, you need more heart to fight the fight....Its the way the game is played. If we don't have the ingredients now we will fix it.

[citdog]

So The Cit squeaked by by a FG in OT to a team that is not all that good???????


that's right......a MILITARY school that can't recruit the same athletes you do whipped your ass the last two games.......sean price would have been expelled for what he did if it was in Charleston.

[citdog]

You are 100% right Saint......Go APP and if you are a recent chicken watch from a distance.
Any true competitior doesn't quit after recent history.
Either you have the will to succeed and fight through the down side or you go home with your tail between your legs.

APP will fight the fight through the down side, i have 100% confidence !!

Appoholic, you need more heart to fight the fight....Its the way the game is played. If we don't have the ingredients now we will fix it.


52-28

31-28

[SoCon2013]

App's problems are simple. Following those 3 NC's our suddenly legendary coach spent too much time on the lecture and golf circuit enjoying his celebrity status instead of recruiting. We have paid the price the last 4 years and won a lot of games by the skin of our teeth. We have been skating on thin ice for several years. This season it finally gave way.

2010- Without a freak win over UTC and a 3 pt win over Elon (after giving up gave up over 500 yards) we are 7-3 and in danger of not making the playoffs. Where we got dismantled by Villanova.

2011- Another freak win over UTC by 2 (after returning a fumble and a INT for TD's), loss to Wofford by 2 TD's, 7 pt win at Citadel after being up 35-14, loss to Furman, stealing one from Elon by 4 (they out gained us big time). Could have easily been 5- 6.
Oh yea, we got smoked again in playoffs by Maine.

2012- Avoided a 0-3 start when we picked off a pass to beat Montana at home, we lose to Samford w/0 without a circus catch by Price, loss to Wofford, give up almost 200 more yards on offense to Furman but hang on to win by 5. Could have easily been 5-6. Oh yea, we got smoked by Ill State in the playoffs.

Smoked by Illinois State in the play-offs? Scored 37 points and lost by 1 point in the second round is "smoked?" In that case, App has been more than smoked in all games but one thus far this season. You say statistics don't lie, but the writer sure can by omission.

[SoCon2013]

that's right......a MILITARY school that can't recruit the same athletes you do whipped your ass the last two games.......sean price would have been expelled for what he did if it was in Charleston.

Whipped App's azz? You sincerely call winning by a FG in OT whipping azz?xlolx

[ursus arctos horribilis]

It just seems he may not understand App was a good FCS team before AE arrived, heck even before Moore arrived.

Many posters in this thread don't know who Dino, Settle, Mack, Scott, Dexter, etc. are. People are acting like App football started in 2005.

1984, 1993, 2004, and now 2013 App had bad teams, this isn't new to longtime App fans.

We should assume you started following in 2003 then? He's your age or thereabouts so I doubt you got much more following or fandom than he does. I mean unless you only become a fan when you sign up here then you got him by a solid 3.

[citdog]

Whipped App's azz? You sincerely call winning by a FG in OT whipping azz?xlolx

so being outscored the last two meetings by 83-56 isn't an ass whipping?

[CID1990]

Whipped App's azz? You sincerely call winning by a FG in OT whipping azz?xlolx

We played a crap game and still won. You're lucky we are still flailing around in the dark or otherwise this years game would have looked more like last year's.

ASU scored exactly the same number of points as last year and lost again. The only difference was us.

[PaladinFan]

It just seems he may not understand App was a good FCS team before AE arrived, heck even before Moore arrived.

Many posters in this thread don't know who Dino, Settle, Mack, Scott, Dexter, etc. are. People are acting like App football started in 2005.

1984, 1993, 2004, and now 2013 App had bad teams, this isn't new to longtime App fans.

No one said App didn't play football. They had 5 SoCon titles in over 30 years prior to 2005, no titles, no title appearances. They were good, but they were not in the same class with Furman and Georgia Southern. And outside of your subtle dig, I've seen App State play plenty and well before 2006.

No one is arguing that App has been awful for years. ASU was the top of the mountain for a short period of time, and a huge part of that was Armanti Edwards. That's just inescapable.

Just saying 2013 is a bad year misses the point. It's a trend. ASU was the top in the mid-2000s. They were unstoppable on offense. Unbeatable at home. In 2011 you started to see chinks in the armor. Their top five team got pushed around by Furman in Greenville. In 2012 they lost handily at home several times. In 2013 they've been awful. It's not like this happened yesterday. They've gotten progressively worse for three or four years now.

Look, this happened to Furman. There's a period of denial. A "this can't happen to my team" period. It can. You have a couple years where no one is minding the store and you're 1-4.

[SoCon2013]

so being outscored the last two meetings by 83-56 isn't an ass whipping?

Ummmm. You were talking about last Saturday and calling a FG in overtime a trouncing. No wonder you get so much grief on here.

[SoCon2013]

No one said App didn't play football. They had 5 SoCon titles in over 30 years prior to 2005, no titles, no title appearances. They were good, but they were not in the same class with Furman and Georgia Southern. And outside of your subtle dig, I've seen App State play plenty and well before 2006.

No one is arguing that App has been awful for years. ASU was the top of the mountain for a short period of time, and a huge part of that was Armanti Edwards. That's just inescapable.

Just saying 2013 is a bad year misses the point. It's a trend. ASU was the top in the mid-2000s. They were unstoppable on offense. Unbeatable at home. In 2011 you started to see chinks in the armor. Their top five team got pushed around by Furman in Greenville. In 2012 they lost handily at home several times. In 2013 they've been awful. It's not like this happened yesterday. They've gotten progressively worse for three or four years now.

Look, this happened to Furman. There's a period of denial. A "this can't happen to my team" period. It can. You have a couple years where no one is minding the store and you're 1-4.

You contradicted yourself when you said "top five team."

[SoCon2013]

No one said App didn't play football. They had 5 SoCon titles in over 30 years prior to 2005, no titles, no title appearances. They were good, but they were not in the same class with Furman and Georgia Southern. And outside of your subtle dig, I've seen App State play plenty and well before 2006.

No one is arguing that App has been awful for years. ASU was the top of the mountain for a short period of time, and a huge part of that was Armanti Edwards. That's just inescapable.

Just saying 2013 is a bad year misses the point. It's a trend. ASU was the top in the mid-2000s. They were unstoppable on offense. Unbeatable at home. In 2011 you started to see chinks in the armor. Their top five team got pushed around by Furman in Greenville. In 2012 they lost handily at home several times. In 2013 they've been awful. It's not like this happened yesterday. They've gotten progressively worse for three or four years now.

Look, this happened to Furman. There's a period of denial. A "this can't happen to my team" period. It can. You have a couple years where no one is minding the store and you're 1-4.

Where were those SEVERAL games App was beaten handily in Boone? I count two. Citadel by 24 and Wofford by 10.
I also saw an 8 point win over perennial power Montana, a 55-14 over Coastal Carolina, Furman by 5 and a one point loss in the play-offs.

[Saint3333]

App was a top ten FCS program before the mid 2000's.

[OL FU]

App was a top ten FCS program before the mid 2000's.

I agree. They were probably number 9 or 10 but they were in the mix.
Wish I could find our pre-2005 best in playoff analysis. Where is Mountaineer when you need him?

[Saint3333]

As for the current trend, this also isn't new for App.

2000 through 2004 App won one fewer game each year, the seat got hot for Jerry and his coaches recruiting very well from 2004-2006. 2004 they played a ton of freshman.

The upward trend may be harder to see starting next year with the move but it will be there if we get another recruiting class similar to the 2013 class.

[Saint3333]

Right on que.

http://www.appstatesports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?ATCLID=209278611&DB_OEM_ID=21500

[Appaholic]

It just seems he may not understand App was a good FCS team before AE arrived, heck even before Moore arrived.

Many posters in this thread don't know who Dino, Settle, Mack, Scott, Dexter, etc. are. People are acting like App football started in 2005.

1984, 1993, 2004, and now 2013 App had bad teams, this isn't new to longtime App fans.

I understand Saint. They were a pretty good team who would sneak up on a horrible wake program from time-to-time. Since you're questioning my fanhood, I attended my first game (loss to VMI) in 1983 when Mack Brown was coach and Randy Joyce was under center. I knew of Jon Settle & Dino Hackett as my brother played HS ball against them. I loved the Sparky Woods era as App, while boring on offense, was great on Defense and especially Special Teams (god how that has changed). I was broken-hearted when Marshall knocked us out of the semis in 1987. I hated to see Sparky go, especially since he took a fairly decent QB with him to SC (Bobby Fuller). I used to say hello to Jerry Moore every day as he jogged on Rivers St as I went to class. I was still in school to see the awesome 1995 squad....and then see them get manhandled by SFA in Boone. So I'm no newbie to this App football thing. You should have been able to tell that by my resistance to moving to FBS unlike all of the bandwagon fans who have been chirping "FBS" while looking down their noses at conference mates & FCS foes. Marshall & Boise did it right by leaving while still on top. app is leaving the FCS with a whimper and thank god a decent football conference didn't extend an offer to prolong this agony into FBS....

[AshevilleApp2]

I understand Saint. They were a pretty good team who would sneak up on a horrible wake program from time-to-time. Since you're questioning my fanhood, I attended my first game (loss to VMI) in 1983 when Mack Brown was coach and Randy Joyce was under center. I knew of Jon Settle & Dino Hackett as my brother played HS ball against them. I loved the Sparky Woods era as App, while boring on offense, was great on Defense and especially Special Teams (god how that has changed). I was broken-hearted when Marshall knocked us out of the semis in 1987. I hated to see Sparky go, especially since he took a fairly decent QB with him to SC (Bobby Fuller). I used to say hello to Jerry Moore every day as he jogged on Rivers St as I went to class. I was still in school to see the awesome 1995 squad....and then see them get manhandled by SFA in Boone. So I'm no newbie to this App football thing. You should have been able to tell that by my resistance to moving to FBS unlike all of the bandwagon fans who have been chirping "FBS" while looking down their noses at conference mates & FCS foes. Marshall & Boise did it right by leaving while still on top. app is leaving the FCS with a whimper and thank god a decent football conference didn't extend an offer to prolong this agony into FBS....

Pretty good man!

[ASUMountaineer]

ULM only won one I-AA title (as NE Louisiana). Since ASU has won 3 then maybe it will just take 6.66 years to have a winning season.:)

While cute, it's still not the point.

[ASUMountaineer]

I think if we could match ECU it would be considered an enormous success. ECU is arguably the best football program in NC for the last 20 years.

This.

[ASUMountaineer]

You failed to mention that in those good years you had arguably the best player in the history of the FCS. Coach Moore was on the hot seat in 2004 (I well remember many App fans calling for his ouster).

I do give App credit on capitalizing on a hot product, but it's hard for me to ignore that the team had Armanti Edwards for four years, went gang busters, he graduates and the team slowly gets worse each season.

Richie Williams would like a word with you.

[ASUMountaineer]

No one said App didn't play football. They had 5 SoCon titles in over 30 years prior to 2005, no titles, no title appearances. They were good, but they were not in the same class with Furman and Georgia Southern. And outside of your subtle dig, I've seen App State play plenty and well before 2006.

No one is arguing that App has been awful for years. ASU was the top of the mountain for a short period of time, and a huge part of that was Armanti Edwards. That's just inescapable.

Just saying 2013 is a bad year misses the point. It's a trend. ASU was the top in the mid-2000s. They were unstoppable on offense. Unbeatable at home. In 2011 you started to see chinks in the armor. Their top five team got pushed around by Furman in Greenville. In 2012 they lost handily at home several times. In 2013 they've been awful. It's not like this happened yesterday. They've gotten progressively worse for three or four years now.

Look, this happened to Furman. There's a period of denial. A "this can't happen to my team" period. It can. You have a couple years where no one is minding the store and you're 1-4.

Yes he was, but again, we won a title while AE was in HS. Richie Williams would still like a word with you...

[ASUMountaineer]

Jeebus Saint.......NEVER figured you for one who would eat your own. Appy STINKS this year........PRETTY sure 'Ol Jerry would be getting more out of this group than scotty has.

I sure would hope so given his vast experience over Scott's. Try again...

[ASUMountaineer]

I apologize for hitting this thread with so many posts...haven't been on in a couple of days.

Appaholic is a huge App guy, and he's been 100% anti-FBS for years. We may disagree on our subdivision of choice for App State, but he's a true Mountaineer. As we've seen, success on the field is not a prerequisite for joining the FBS ranks...though, it probably does help. App State probably won't be Boise, and App State probably won't be UMass. I would imagine that the PTB that are moving App State to the FBS are striving to be similar to ECU. I don't think anyone here, other than LFN and Mr. C, would say that being like ECU would be a failure.

With that said, isn't it time we quit debating if App should have stayed FCS or gone to FBS? It's already been decided, App State is moving to the Sun Belt (two words) Conference and the FBS next season. For those that supported a move to the FBS (myself included) it's time to put up, get behind the school, and embrace our new conference/subdivision. For those that didn't support the move, you have a choice to make: get behind the move and support the school, or not support the school. I hope all pro-FCSers choose the latter.

I love my school, and only want what's best Appalachian State. I trust the judgment of the Chancellor, AD, and BOT and support the direction of Appalachian State. It's time to accept that the move is happening and make your choice.

<drops mic>

[OL FU]

App was a top ten FCS program before the mid 2000's.

a little nostalgia. Couldn't find the first of these but these were the self generated ratings by OL FU later improved by Mountaineer that says ASUs was number 9 after their first NC. I would imagine that would have meant they were somewhere between 10 and 12 before that year.
http://www.anygivensaturday.com/showthread.php?6637-Historical-Most-Successful-Playoffs-2005

[PaladinFan]

Yes he was, but again, we won a title while AE was in HS. Richie Williams would still like a word with you...

I am well aware App State won with Richie Williams. Their defense was far better that season than any year after. Edwards was an elite player and inherited a good supporting cast. He took a very good team and made them a great team.

[citdog]

I heard Kevin Richardson was a walk on.................

[Saint3333]

You can understand my question given your post. If you were a fan since 1983 I don't understand your post about App not being good except for a four year period. FU's metrics prove that to be incorrect.

App couldn't move in 2007 due to NCAA rules, we can't wait four years for the next up cycle as a spot may not be available. Things aren't that easy in the real world.

[Saint3333]

I am well aware App State won with Richie Williams. Their defense was far better that season than any year after. Edwards was an elite player and inherited a good supporting cast. He took a very good team and made them a great team.

Not true the 2006 defense was better than the 2005 edition. App was more than AE in 2006 and 2007, if it wasn't why were 2008 and 2009 worse?

[PaladinFan]

Not true the 2006 defense was better than the 2005 edition. App was more than AE in 2006 and 2007, if it wasn't why were 2008 and 2009 worse?

I don't think they were "worse" because they didn't win a title. They were 11-3 both seasons and just didn't win a title. I recall they were ranked #2 and #3 in those years, and I think the top seed in at least one of those two seasons.

From my seats, App was every bit as good (if not better) in the years they did not win a title. ASU was an ice patch away from not winning the title in 2005 (dead horse beaten), and probably some flukey play away from winning one in 2009 (they were beat pretty soundly by Richmond in 2008, but if memory serves, Edwards played injured).

[citdog]

http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/2fmiY0wAaOo/hqdefault.jpg

[Saint3333]

I don't think they were "worse" because they didn't win a title. They were 11-3 both seasons and just didn't win a title. I recall they were ranked #2 and #3 in those years, and I think the top seed in at least one of those two seasons.

From my seats, App was every bit as good (if not better) in the years they did not win a title. ASU was an ice patch away from not winning the title in 2005 (dead horse beaten), and probably some flukey play away from winning one in 2009 (they were beat pretty soundly by Richmond in 2008, but if memory serves, Edwards played injured).

Every national title team has the ball bounce their way at least once. App has been on the other side of that a time or two as well.

I can agree the offense in 2008 and 2009 was as good as it was in 2004-2007, but the defense wasn't close to those 2005 and 2006 teams.

[SoCon2013]

I heard Kevin Richardson was a walk on.................

And your point is? App has had several FCS all-Americans who were walk ons. Maybe Citadel should try that route

[T-Dog]

Jeebus Saint.......NEVER figured you for one who would eat your own. Appy STINKS this year........PRETTY sure 'Ol Jerry would be getting more out of this group than scotty has.

You very well might be right, but it would also be worse down the line if Jerry had lingered on.

We won a lot of games in the last three years of Moore based on talent alone.

[citdog]

And your point is? App has had several FCS all-Americans who were walk ons. Maybe Citadel should try that route


That was a joke 2013.......If you remember the Natty game the female announcer said that like 33 times during the telecast.

[T-Dog]

I made a Venn Diagram in MS Paint explaining what has happened here.

http://pbs.twimg.com/media/BWHLVfHCcAEPZf_.jpg

[AppMan]

You failed to mention that in those good years you had arguably the best player in the history of the FCS. Coach Moore was on the hot seat in 2004 (I well remember many App fans calling for his ouster).

I do give App credit on capitalizing on a hot product, but it's hard for me to ignore that the team had Armanti Edwards for four years, went gang busters, he graduates and the team slowly gets worse each season.

I failed to mention Edwards because he graduated in 2009 and my timeline started in 2010.

[CID1990]

That was a joke 2013.......If you remember the Natty game the female announcer said that like 33 times during the telecast.

His institutional memory of ASU only goes back so far...

[AppMan]

Smoked by Illinois State in the play-offs? Scored 37 points and lost by 1 point in the second round is "smoked?" In that case, App has been more than smoked in all games but one thus far this season. You say statistics don't lie, but the writer sure can by omission.

We gave up 38 points and 420 yards to a Illinois State team averaging barely 25 coming in. We "ran" the ball 27 times for 51 yards an eye popping 1.8 ypc. Oh yea, we never led in the game. At The Rock. We got smoked.

[SoCon2013]

So with Price, Laws, the #2 QB playing well, a top notch head coach according to the CW for several years on the MMB, and a new Defensive Coordinator who almost always gave App a fit. Satterfield was constantly called the brains behind Moore's runs. So why aren't the Apps winning at least one or two of the close ones, besides the Elonker contest?
The obvious answers are that there is insufficient depth and a lot of youth. But in my humble opinion, the main handicap is that Satterfield is in major OJT as head coach. He has a brilliant future but the turn around must start soon in order to go into the FBS at full speed. There needs to be at least a good showing tomorrow at the rock or teams' and fans' morale will take some hits.
I predict a breakout tomorrow but have to caveat that with the need to play consistently for both halves. Something that hasn't been achieved thus far.
Either way, the blame game must stop vs both JM and Satterfield.

[SoCon2013]

We gave up 38 points and 420 yards to a Illinois State team averaging barely 25 coming in. We "ran" the ball 27 times for 51 yards an eye popping 1.8 ypc. Oh yea, we never led in the game. At The Rock. We got smoked.

Stats don't mean didly squat compared tom the scoreboard. Teams I coached on won several games over the years when we were stomped in the box score. Of course you would have been saying the same thing about the "smoked" part had Jerry pulled it out by one. That's your MO.

[CID1990]

Well one thing is for sure 2013... there won't be any semantic arguments about close losses this Saturday when Samford takes Yosef over their knee

[GSUsTALON]

Boo frickin Hoo "nothing to play for".

That's a load of crap. What about playing for your school? For pride?

Hell most seasons The Citadel doesn't have anything to play for by the time the season is halfway over, but our kids still play hard and still beat some people they aren't supposed to. Maybe some folks should try recruiting for character as much as athletic ability. If I was a head coach and I thought my players weren't giving 100% just because they don't have some damn trophy to play for I'd bench every one of their a$$es and start the scrubs every game.

Nothing to play for is a chicken**** excuse for not being all that good.

The problem does not have anything to do with "nothing to play for"( ie the conference title and playoffs0. GSU wanted to go out big with a 10-0 FCS season and a shot at the Gators for the 11th game could have been looked at as our bowl game.

[PaladinFan]

The problem does not have anything to do with "nothing to play for"( ie the conference title and playoffs0. GSU wanted to go out big with a 10-0 FCS season and a shot at the Gators for the 11th game could have been looked at as our bowl game.

That's my thought. It's a convenient and weak excuse to explain why your team is losing.

[AppMan]

Stats don't mean didly squat compared tom the scoreboard. Teams I coached on won several games over the years when we were stomped in the box score. Of course you would have been saying the same thing about the "smoked" part had Jerry pulled it out by one. That's your MO.

My MO is dealing in reality. I don't see how any coach can be happy winning games over teams you should beat soundly by pulling them out of your butt. When you have the resources, facilities and support (in FCS) App has that isn't something to be pleased about. JM's MO was to explain away close games by saying "that's a really good football team we played today". Not because he wanted to praise the other team, but to take the heat off himself. I don't know how long you've been around the program, but I've seen close to 80% of the games (home and away) we've played under Jerry. There have been more than I can possibly recall where we allowed teams with far less talent hang around, gain confidence and force us to pull out a game we should have won handily. I don't like losing, but I dislike seeing our team not perform up to our capabilities even more. Years ago after an OT win over Wofford in a game we should have won comfortably, Rob Best told me "a win is a win, I'd take 15 just like it". Basically he was saying I don't care how badly we play, just as long as we win. I simply do not understand that mentality and it flies in the face of everything I've ever known about coaching. Right now our abilities are less than where they need to be. I'll agree with you Scott is in just as much of a learning curve as our young players. I won't go as far to say he will be a great coach because there is still a lot of water that needs to pass under the bridge before that assessment can be made.

[CID1990]

I think there would be more sympathy for Satterfield in Boone if he came out pissed after the games like Monken; raising hell.

[ThompsonThe]

I'm really surprised a lot of the App fans are remaining relatively calm
Pretty realistic App State fan base. We know we will be killer soon.


Western Carolina (1-10) vs Appalachian State (1-10) on November 23?
Hard to believe that Western Carolina hasn't won any SoCon game in years.


I would hope ASU would want to emulate ECU more than Marshall. Just on TPF alone if nothing else.
To heck with emulating EZU...App State has held @ a 2 to 1 huge winning advantage over EZU for years. Expect that in the future also since we will finally be playing on more equal terms.

[AppMan]

I think there would be more sympathy for Satterfield in Boone if he came out pissed after the games like Monken; raising hell.

This is not the time to rip those guys. We've got a young team that is playing hard, just making mistakes. If they were an experienced group not playing up to their potential, that would be an entirely different situation. These kids need to know the staff is behind them and not tossing them under the bus every time they screw up.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

24-3 Samford with the 'hamdogs about to score again. I guess I can feel somewhat better about losing to Samford with a ton of injuries.


This is not the time to rip those guys. We've got a young team that is playing hard, just making mistakes. If they were an experienced group not playing up to their potential, that would be an entirely different situation. These kids need to know the staff is behind them and not tossing them under the bus every time they screw up.

Are you saying that Monken throws players under the bus?

I don't believe I have ever heard him call out a player by name in any kind of interviews.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

34-10. Ouch.

See you Appies in Boone for two weeks for a shootout.

[IBleedYellow]

GSU is going to grind the clock down like mad against them, and probably own the rock in 2 weeks. Ouch.

[Mountaineer]

34-10. Ouch.

See you Appies in Boone for two weeks to put on an asswhuppin'.

Fixed. xlolx


Ouch.

No ouch about it, really. Reality is that this App team is going down in flames. Years of recruiting "athletes" and no linemen is coming to haunt with a vengeance this year.

This App team will be lucky to win another game this year. Maybe against Western Carolina, but even then I'd have to give the Catamounts the edge.

[SoCon2013]

My MO is dealing in reality. I don't see how any coach can be happy winning games over teams you should beat soundly by pulling them out of your butt. When you have the resources, facilities and support (in FCS) App has that isn't something to be pleased about. JM's MO was to explain away close games by saying "that's a really good football team we played today". Not because he wanted to praise the other team, but to take the heat off himself. I don't know how long you've been around the program, but I've seen close to 80% of the games (home and away) we've played under Jerry. There have been more than I can possibly recall where we allowed teams with far less talent hang around, gain confidence and force us to pull out a game we should have won handily. I don't like losing, but I dislike seeing our team not perform up to our capabilities even more. Years ago after an OT win over Wofford in a game we should have won comfortably, Rob Best told me "a win is a win, I'd take 15 just like it". Basically he was saying I don't care how badly we play, just as long as we win. I simply do not understand that mentality and it flies in the face of everything I've ever known about coaching. Right now our abilities are less than where they need to be. I'll agree with you Scott is in just as much of a learning curve as our young players. I won't go as far to say he will be a great coach because there is still a lot of water that needs to pass under the bridge before that assessment can be made.


Just a suggestion, and you can take it the way you want (because you will anyway): you wanted Jerry out for years. Now he is gone. Can't you look to the future without bashing him seemingly constantly? He has left a profession he loved and was dedicated to. I hear through the grapevine that he is very depressed. His last few years were less than stellar for sure. That isn't unusual in the profession.
Just give Satterfield at least four years of OJT, time to recruit his and Woody's type and calibre of athletes, then go from there. As they say, Rome wasn't built in a day. App has had down years and bounced back many times in the past. The Mountaineers will have their day in the sun again. It may not be tomorrow so to speak, but it will come.

[ASU_Fanatic]

App is just absolutely terrible. Joke of a line, Sean Price is not the same and Kam Bryant is inconsistent as hell as a passer. I kept thinking Satterfield was going to figure things out and we were going to go on a tear to end the season and FSU next year but App is just bad. I have a ton of faith in Satterfield as a recruiter though, he'll obviously realize we have a dire weakness on the line and he can find guys to play there.

[CopperCat]

So who out there still thinks ASU should go FBS?

[ASU_Fanatic]

So who out there still thinks ASU should go FBS?
The sky is not falling. It's not Satterfield's fault Moore refused to recruit to the lines. Our QB's don't have a chance, we have some very exciting skill position players. Improve the lines and App will be back balling in no time

[CopperCat]

The sky is not falling. It's not Satterfield's fault Moore refused to recruit to the lines. Our QB's don't have a chance, we have some very exciting skill position players. Improve the lines and App will be back balling in no time

I hope that happens. Becoming the next Boise State is something almost nobody has accomplished, but when ASU went on its tear of three in a row, I thought for sure they would be the next success story.

[ASU_Fanatic]

I hope that happens. Becoming the next Boise State is something almost nobody has accomplished, but when ASU went on its tear of three in a row, I thought for sure they would be the next success story.
Oh App isn't going to be a Boise St lol. But they're recruiting very well, there's no reason they won't be winning 8 games a year in the Sun Belt on a consistent basis here in a few years.

[WataugaDave]

After Chatty's performance against Furman today, we're probably careening towards ending this season 2-10.

[ASU_Fanatic]

I couldn't fathom losing to Western. Holy *****

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

Obviously we will win more games than App. State this year, but I think our secondary will keep App. in the game. xbangx

BTW, it makes no sense to rethink moving up because of one bad season. Either Satterfield makes the changes needed for App. to get better or App. will find someone who can. Don't know much about the App. defense, but their offense has several players who are all-Sun Belt caliber.

[AppMan]

Just a suggestion, and you can take it the way you want (because you will anyway): you wanted Jerry out for years. Now he is gone. Can't you look to the future without bashing him seemingly constantly? He has left a profession he loved and was dedicated to. I hear through the grapevine that he is very depressed. His last few years were less than stellar for sure. That isn't unusual in the profession.
Just give Satterfield at least four years of OJT, time to recruit his and Woody's type and calibre of athletes, then go from there. As they say, Rome wasn't built in a day. App has had down years and bounced back many times in the past. The Mountaineers will have their day in the sun again. It may not be tomorrow so to speak, but it will come.

Yes I wanted him to retire for several years because I knew what he was doing to the program. Most people refused to acknowledge his staff was doing a poor job of recruiting and bringing in some kids with suspect character. When people express an interest in wanting to know what is going on with App they deserve a truthful answer and not some sugar coating to uphold a myth. Scott deserves much better than that. You and others see that as bashing, I see it as exposing the truth. BTW, your grapevine isn't very reliable. I know someone who played golf with Coach Moore a few weeks back and he is doing fine. Does he miss it? Of course, and he is still disappointed, but he is far from depressed. It's crap like that which keeps this pot stirred and the hate flowing.

Yes App will be back and sooner than a lot of people think. We are a few O linemen, a true 3-4 nose tackle and 1 stud LB to pair with Law away from being pretty darn good. Scott still has the unenviable job of cleaning up the entitlement mentality that has come over this team the last 5-6 years. We need to get back top being humble and hungry. A few changes on the staff to include a few Type A personalities like Ruffing McNeil - Stacy Searles & Shawn Elliot will take care of a lot of those issues. We need a new strength coach as well. Kareem Young is a great guy, but our team is getting pushed around. That used to never happen.

On a side note, I was sickened today to learn that Scott has been receiving hundreds if not thousands of hateful and sometimes vulgar emails. He was also receiving the same type of messages on his home phone before changing his number. The guy is one of our own. He bleeds Black & Gold and loves this university and football program HE helped to build as a player and coach. He has been thrown into a situation that was none of his making and is trying to correct years of neglect. It disgusts me to know some of our so called fans are reacting this way. In a way it is too bad Coach Moore isn't on hand to reap the fruit of the seeds he sewed.

[AppMan]

So who out there still thinks ASU should go FBS?

Why should we care what anyone "out there" thinks about App going FBS?

[CID1990]

I haven't seen so much angst since Alanis Morissette and The Cure toured together

[WataugaDave]

I couldn't fathom losing to Western. Holy *****

Western hasn't beaten a Division I team since 2010, so I hope to God we're not that awful. My point was the Mocs game is now up in the air though.

[JSUBison]

Oh App isn't going to be a Boise St lol. But they're recruiting very well, there's no reason they won't be winning 8 games a year in the Sun Belt on a consistent basis here in a few years.

I agree, and I don't think ASU will be down that long. ASU and GSU will go into the Sun Belt and compete right away, the sun belt is pretty bad. For example look at Georgia State, they lost to 3 FCS teams, and in their 1st Sun Belt game today they were competitive and almost won.

[AshevilleApp2]

I haven't seen so much angst since Alanis Morissette and The Cure toured together


xlolx

Nice.

[HappyHippie]

Yes I wanted him to retire for several years because I knew what he was doing to the program. Most people refused to acknowledge his staff was doing a poor job of recruiting and bringing in some kids with suspect character. When people express an interest in wanting to know what is going on with App they deserve a truthful answer and not some sugar coating to uphold a myth. Scott deserves much better than that. You and others see that as bashing, I see it as exposing the truth. BTW, your grapevine isn't very reliable. I know someone who played golf with Coach Moore a few weeks back and he is doing fine. Does he miss it? Of course, and he is still disappointed, but he is far from depressed. It's crap like that which keeps this pot stirred and the hate flowing.

Yes App will be back and sooner than a lot of people think. We are a few O linemen, a true 3-4 nose tackle and 1 stud LB to pair with Law away from being pretty darn good. Scott still has the unenviable job of cleaning up the entitlement mentality that has come over this team the last 5-6 years. We need to get back top being humble and hungry. A few changes on the staff to include a few Type A personalities like Ruffing McNeil - Stacy Searles & Shawn Elliot will take care of a lot of those issues. We need a new strength coach as well. Kareem Young is a great guy, but our team is getting pushed around. That used to never happen.

On a side note, I was sickened today to learn that Scott has been receiving hundreds if not thousands of hateful and sometimes vulgar emails. He was also receiving the same type of messages on his home phone before changing his number. The guy is one of our own. He bleeds Black & Gold and loves this university and football program HE helped to build as a player and coach. He has been thrown into a situation that was none of his making and is trying to correct years of neglect. It disgusts me to know some of our so called fans are reacting this way. In a way it is too bad Coach Moore isn't on hand to reap the fruit of the seeds he sewed.

Please! The golden boy is not the man. Sure, SOMEONE is to blame. Our Hall of Fame Coach is not that man. You can push Jerry to the front if it makes you feel better. Winning 7 of the past 8 SoCon Championships is an accomplishment - No?

[CopperCat]

Why should we care what anyone "out there" thinks about App going FBS?

It was an honest question. Lighten up Francis.

[catamount man]

Western hasn't beaten a Division I team since 2010, so I hope to God we're not that awful. My point was the Mocs game is now up in the air though.

Yes, but imagine Boone's attitude IF WCU were to end that long Division I losing streak against you guys?! I originally picked my CATS to go 3-9, beating MH, Elon and Furman. If we go 2-10, I will be ecstatic. From our end, we wish you guys well in FBS but we gotta concentrate on our program. Speir said it best after the Auburn loss in that he's finally glad these FBS games are over for 2013. It is sad and frustrating that 30 years of mismanagement by our various administrations have strapped us for cash that we have to play all of these FBS games. Two next year that were already signed but I hope 2015 and beyond we only play one a year.

GO CATS!

[T-Dog]

If we needed players to run a 400 m, then we would be in great shape. However, they need to tackle RB's and bust through tackles for 4 quarters. Samford could tackle our players solo without much effort. The strength aspect of strength and conditioning is lacking big time.

Also, the lack of a mentally tough offense is killing this team. Balls that were caught and knocked out on the way down all day. Price did have one touchdown waived incomplete that was complete garbage (video showed he went down with the ball and it was knocked out of his hand after he held it up for the ref), but that only cost the team four points in a game they lost by 24. Kam should have been the starter three weeks ago, but he's not the QB of the future IMO. He's simply the best option we have right now. In 2011 when Presley struggled, he was helped out by a loaded defense. That helped the team finish 8-4 when it easily could have been 5-7.

After this game, I'm convinced that if Jerry stayed, he would be having the same exact season with our weak strength training. After the game I called into the post-game show and asked our color commentator Steve Brown (who doesn't mince words) about the S&C program and he straight up said the strength program is weak. That was posted without context on Twitter and some current and former players went nuts defending it.

I also think it's time for Satterfield to give up play-calling from the sidelines. I've now heard from someone inside the program on how Scott is uncomfortable calling plays from the sideline and having to rely on someone upstairs. That's fixable. However, it's up to the players to make the plays on offense which they didn't do yesterday. The play-calling wasn't the core problem against Samford.

[SpeedkingATL]

App managed to make Samford look like that SEC team with the elephant mascot today.

[AppMan]

It was an honest question. Lighten up Francis.

And I gave an honest answer. Button it up Clarke.

[AppMan]

Please! The golden boy is not the man. Sure, SOMEONE is to blame. Our Hall of Fame Coach is not that man. You can push Jerry to the front if it makes you feel better. Winning 7 of the past 8 SoCon Championships is an accomplishment - No?

It's not to make me feel better, its the truth. If people only knew......

[Saint3333]

People that place 100% of this on either Jerry or Scott aren't seeing the whole picture. This isn't one issue it is about 8 or 9 all wrapped into one. Time will heal these wounds and I still have faith in Scott to turn it around. He has verbals from some good athletes (three offensive lineman) and is getting close to signing a highly recruited Juco LB.

[DoWe]

App managed to make Samford look like that SEC team with the elephant mascot today.

Then it stands to reason you will make Georgia look like the Denver Broncos.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

Yes I wanted him to retire for several years because I knew what he was doing to the program. Most people refused to acknowledge his staff was doing a poor job of recruiting and bringing in some kids with suspect character. When people express an interest in wanting to know what is going on with App they deserve a truthful answer and not some sugar coating to uphold a myth. Scott deserves much better than that. You and others see that as bashing, I see it as exposing the truth. BTW, your grapevine isn't very reliable. I know someone who played golf with Coach Moore a few weeks back and he is doing fine. Does he miss it? Of course, and he is still disappointed, but he is far from depressed. It's crap like that which keeps this pot stirred and the hate flowing.

Yes App will be back and sooner than a lot of people think. We are a few O linemen, a true 3-4 nose tackle and 1 stud LB to pair with Law away from being pretty darn good. Scott still has the unenviable job of cleaning up the entitlement mentality that has come over this team the last 5-6 years. We need to get back top being humble and hungry. A few changes on the staff to include a few Type A personalities like Ruffing McNeil - Stacy Searles & Shawn Elliot will take care of a lot of those issues. We need a new strength coach as well. Kareem Young is a great guy, but our team is getting pushed around. That used to never happen.

I haven't watched App this year other than the Montana game, but I do feel like GSU has been through a very similar situation.

You could replace Jerry Moore with Mike Sewak and Scott Satterfield with Brian VanGorder in that first paragraph and have something exactly like what a lot of GSU fans were saying in 2006. The second paragraph is also very similar with what our fans were saying while our whole season that year crashed and burned...that we just need to get the personnel for the pro style offense and clear out all of the Sewak discipline problems.

Satterfield could be successful, but my gut feeling is that he's in over his head. It's one thing to go 6-5 but App is pushing for 8 or 9 losses which just seems too hard to excuse with the kind of talent App has. Chris Hatcher was handed a pretty big mess when he took over at GSU in 2007. There was no depth at any position on defense other than the defensive line. The offense had a lot of talent like ASU's does today but was learning basically their third offense in 3 years. Hatcher won 7 games and was a missed 32 yard field goal away from winning the autobid in a SoCon that was much better than this year's.

Seems harsh to condemn a coach after 1 season, but from my outsider prospective it doesn't look good.

[Appaholic]

You can understand my question given your post. If you were a fan since 1983 I don't understand your post about App not being good except for a four year period. FU's metrics prove that to be incorrect.

App couldn't move in 2007 due to NCAA rules, we can't wait four years for the next up cycle as a spot may not be available. Things aren't that easy in the real world.

I don't think I ever said that. We were a respectable program that never sustained long term success out of conference (ie; within playoffs) any better in the previous 20 years than they have done in the past 4 or 5 years. Prior to 2005, we had been to 2 semi-finals and lost both. Since our 3-yr run, we've been to one semi-final with arguably the greatest player in FCS history leading the team. We were never a dominant team except for that 3 year run which translates to one incredible class of players in our history. I never said we weren't good prior to 2005. Outside of 2005-2007, we were good like Furman & William & Mary have been good in the past. As far as dealing in reality, we're now 1-5, heading into the "meat" of our conference schedule & supposedly moving "up" to a more competitive conference next year....

[Saint3333]

We were top ten program prior to 2005, that is better than "respectable".

[SoCon2013]

It's not to make me feel better, its the truth. If people only knew......


You, recently sound almost gleeful that JM's legacy has turned out so negatively.

[seantaylor]

I haven't watched App this year other than the Montana game, but I do feel like GSU has been through a very similar situation.

You could replace Jerry Moore with Mike Sewak and Scott Satterfield with Brian VanGorder in that first paragraph and have something exactly like what a lot of GSU fans were saying in 2006. The second paragraph is also very similar with what our fans were saying while our whole season that year crashed and burned...that we just need to get the personnel for the pro style offense and clear out all of the Sewak discipline problems.

Satterfield could be successful, but my gut feeling is that he's in over his head. It's one thing to go 6-5 but App is pushing for 8 or 9 losses which just seems too hard to excuse with the kind of talent App has. Chris Hatcher was handed a pretty big mess when he took over at GSU in 2007. There was no depth at any position on defense other than the defensive line. The offense had a lot of talent like ASU's does today but was learning basically their third offense in 3 years. Hatcher won 7 games and was a missed 32 yard field goal away from winning the autobid in a SoCon that was much better than this year's.

Seems harsh to condemn a coach after 1 season, but from my outsider prospective it doesn't look good.

Hatcher wasnt handed a mess at GSU. This was a team one year removed from a Socon title. The rube VG had running the offense ran almost exactly same offense Hatcher runs, which helped Hatcher with the transition from the option. In retrospect, Monken was dealt an offense 4 years removed from the option with the filth of VG and Hatchers offense permeating into Eagle Creek. Hatcher inherited a once a generation talent in Foster, which can't be understated.


Hatcher certainly left the program a mess both on the field and in terms of RPI.

[PaladinFan]

Hatcher wasnt handed a mess at GSU. This was a team one year removed from a Socon title. The rube VG had running the offense ran almost exactly same offense Hatcher runs, which helped Hatcher with the transition from the option. In retrospect, Monken was dealt an offense 4 years removed from the option with the filth of VG and Hatchers offense permeating into Eagle Creek. Hatcher inherited a once a generation talent in Foster, which can't be understated.


Hatcher certainly left the program a mess both on the field and in terms of RPI.

Hatcher had talent, but the expectation level was too great. He was handed a 5'6 quarterback, no wide receivers, small linemen, and expected to run an air raid style offense and win a title in 3 years. It was ludicrous.

The problem with the Hatcher hire was not Hatcher. It was a myopic GSU administration. If you wanted an air raid offense and an air raid coach, hire the man and stand back for six years. If you wanted "win now," why make the hire in the first place?

[AppMan]

You, recently sound almost gleeful that JM's legacy has turned out so negatively.

Not gleeful, just glad a light has been shown on what was actually going on. I been watching our fans drink the Kool Aid for years. Success made them stupid and blind to what was actually going on. This deal was going to crash at some point in time. JM better be happy he isn't around to face the music.

[AppMan]

I haven't watched App this year other than the Montana game, but I do feel like GSU has been through a very similar situation.

You could replace Jerry Moore with Mike Sewak and Scott Satterfield with Brian VanGorder in that first paragraph and have something exactly like what a lot of GSU fans were saying in 2006. The second paragraph is also very similar with what our fans were saying while our whole season that year crashed and burned...that we just need to get the personnel for the pro style offense and clear out all of the Sewak discipline problems.

Satterfield could be successful, but my gut feeling is that he's in over his head. It's one thing to go 6-5 but App is pushing for 8 or 9 losses which just seems too hard to excuse with the kind of talent App has. Chris Hatcher was handed a pretty big mess when he took over at GSU in 2007. There was no depth at any position on defense other than the defensive line. The offense had a lot of talent like ASU's does today but was learning basically their third offense in 3 years. Hatcher won 7 games and was a missed 32 yard field goal away from winning the autobid in a SoCon that was much better than this year's.

Seems harsh to condemn a coach after 1 season, but from my outsider prospective it doesn't look good.

After talking with some folks at GSU the biggest difference I see between the two situations is VanGorder was pretty much a jerk while Scott is a much beloved App player who contributed much to our success as a QB - taking App to the only unbeaten regular D One season in North Carolina history and as a coach during the three-peat.

[HappyHippie]

Not gleeful, just glad a light has been shown on what was actually going on. I been watching our fans drink the Kool Aid for years. Success made them stupid and blind to what was actually going on. This deal was going to crash at some point in time. JM better be happy he isn't around to face the music.


Correct you are about success making them stupid.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Jerry Moore was apparently the only one that had any input on recruiting and he was apparently a god because he was doing something pretty good with terrible recruits. This was a very young team last year and all we heard about was how much better they would be with another year under their belt.The glue that held it together is gone so we'll never know but it is funny seeing Jerry being blamed for the coaching he's not doing.

I don't like seeing App fail but this thread is pure awesomeness.xthumbsupxxlolx

[citdog]

Not gleeful, just glad a light has been shown on what was actually going on. I been watching our fans drink the Kool Aid for years. Success made them stupid and blind to what was actually going on. This deal was going to crash at some point in time. JM better be happy he isn't around to face the music.


http://yourdailyshakespeare.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Brutus-says-he-was-ambitious.jpg

[SoCon2013]

Not gleeful, just glad a light has been shown on what was actually going on. I been watching our fans drink the Kool Aid for years. Success made them stupid and blind to what was actually going on. This deal was going to crash at some point in time. JM better be happy he isn't around to face the music.

They didn't lose on Moore's watch and Satterfield knew what he was getting into. You wanted Moore out and Satterfield in. Now you have it. Deal with it and stop playing the blame game. You sound like the anti-Bush people. Everything is Bush's fault. Now everything is Moore's fault.

[SoCon2013]

Jerry Moore was apparently the only one that had any input on recruiting and he was apparently a god because he was doing something pretty good with terrible recruits. This was a very young team last year and all we heard about was how much better they would be with another year under their belt.The glue that held it together is gone so we'll never know but it is funny seeing Jerry being blamed for the coaching he's not doing.

I don't like seeing App fail but this thread is pure awesomeness.xthumbsupxxlolx

Tell that to AppMan.

[ASUMountaineer]

So who out there still thinks ASU should go FBS?

I do, without question.

[ASUMountaineer]

You, recently sound almost gleeful that JM's legacy has turned out so negatively.

His legacy is now negative? C'mon man, there's no need to throw the baby out with the bath water.

AppMan is a very reasonable poster. He has a lot of insight into the program, and I trust his information. Jerry's shortcomings are not solely to blame, and neither is Scott's OTJ training. There are a lot of issues leading to the poor play, and we need patience and understanding--not short memories and irrationality.

[ASUMountaineer]

They didn't lose on Moore's watch and Satterfield knew what he was getting into. You wanted Moore out and Satterfield in. Now you have it. Deal with it and stop playing the blame game. You sound like the anti-Bush people. Everything is Bush's fault. Now everything is Moore's fault.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-jP2CG_ZpxJA/T5m-b05o72I/AAAAAAAAPhs/SMvCehhMcW8/s1600/brokenrecord.jpg

[ASUMountaineer]

http://yourdailyshakespeare.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Brutus-says-he-was-ambitious.jpg

General Jack MeHoff has chimed in.

[SoCon2013]

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-jP2CG_ZpxJA/T5m-b05o72I/AAAAAAAAPhs/SMvCehhMcW8/s1600/brokenrecord.jpg

Yep. All this bull ***** about Moore, Satterfield, et.al. is BS. Or haven't you noticed.

[SoCon2013]

His legacy is now negative? C'mon man, there's no need to throw the baby out with the bath water.

AppMan is a very reasonable poster. He has a lot of insight into the program, and I trust his information. Jerry's shortcomings are not solely to blame, and neither is Scott's OTJ training. There are a lot of issues leading to the poor play, and we need patience and understanding--not short memories and irrationality.

He had insight into the program when he said Cory Lynch was not told to signal fair catch when he was injured early in his career at App. I talked to Cory himself afterward and he himself said he was told to fair catch. Great insight.

[ASUMountaineer]

Yep. All this bull ***** about Moore, Satterfield, et.al. is BS. Or haven't you noticed.

Oh, I've noticed. My post was in reference to your beef with AppMan. Let it go.

[ASUMountaineer]

He had insight into the program when he said Cory Lynch was not told to signal fair catch when he was injured early in his career at App. I talked to Cory himself afterward and he himself said he was told to fair catch. Great insight.

Take personal beef to PM...it makes you look childish and petty.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

27-3 Furman. Very ugly game laden with penalties and turnovers. How far is App. State from Western Carolina territory?

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Temple needs to schedule App State for Homecoming next year!!

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

App. has more total offense than Furman and is down by 24. Apps have turned the ball over 5 times.

[SpeedkingATL]

App. has more total offense than Furman and is down by 24. Apps have turned the ball over 5 times.

App gift wrapped a nice SoCon parting gift to Furman today. They've done a lot of that this year.

[theasushow]

Asu dominated first downs, total yards, Cox and Bryant both played well.... And they were down 27-3. Defense played pretty good too, but 5 turnovers is impossible to overcome.

[AppChicago]

App gift wrapped a nice SoCon parting gift to Furman today. They've done a lot of that this year.

Maybe it's all some sort of elaborate con game. Like when Uncle Phil suckered those guys at pool to get the Fresh Prince off the hook. And then next year, Satterfield will be like "Geoffrey: Break out Lucille," and our inexplicably British butler will produce a pool cue and we'll run game.

Maybe?

Sigh. Or we might just suck this year.

[Bohcat]

Maybe it's all some sort of elaborate con game. Like when Uncle Phil suckered those guys at pool to get the Fresh Prince off the hook. And then next year, Satterfield will be like "Geoffrey: Break out Lucille," and our inexplicably British butler will produce a pool cue and we'll run game.

Maybe?

Sigh. Or we might just suck this year.

HAHA!!! Thats a good episode!

[chattownmocs]

Asu dominated first downs, total yards, Cox and Bryant both played well.... And they were down 27-3. Defense played pretty good too, but 5 turnovers is impossible to overcome.

The stats show that Furman outplayed you thoroughly they ran it and threw it better. Stop with the BS.

[CID1990]

Asu dominated first downs, total yards, Cox and Bryant both played well.... And they were down 27-3. Defense played pretty good too, but 5 turnovers is impossible to overcome.

ASU is just not good this year. Slightly worse than The Citadel, and significantly worse than Furman.

It is also starting to look like the Jug has an even chance of going to Cullowhee permanently.

[theasushow]

The stats show that Furman outplayed you thoroughly they ran it and threw it better. Stop with the BS.

First downs: ASU 30 Furman 14
Total Yards: ASU 473 Furman 336
Passing Yards: ASU 307 Furman 164
Rushing Yards: ASU 166 Furman 172
TURNOVERS ASU 5 Furman 1

[theasushow]

ASU is just not good this year. Slightly worse than The Citadel, and significantly worse than Furman.

It is also starting to look like the Jug has an even chance of going to Cullowhee permanently.


Your right completely, ASU just cant put a complete game together, got a great game from the QB but 5 turnovers, just one of those years. WE've all been there.

[AppChicago]

The stats show that Furman outplayed you thoroughly they ran it and threw it better. Stop with the BS.

The scoreboard tells us all we really need to know. No one's saying App didn't get owned today. But he's right about the numbers.

[FUwolfpacker]

Was at the game. Furman had something to do with at least a few of those fumbles. App moved the ball pretty well but they were very sloppy. Watching that game, I'm not sure my first thought would have been that App was outplaying Furman. Certainly didn't seem that way. App had a lot of yards but they didn't seem to get that deep into Furman territory outside of the FG and the pick 6 until late in the 4th quarter.

Rough year for App. Things will get better. You can tell this season is really wearing on the players (as you would expect). Good luck to App going forward.

[chattownmocs]

Yards per rush: Furman-5.2...App 3.9
Yards per pass attempt: Furman- 8.6... App State 7.5
Total plays: App state 84..Furman 52

Short fields and less possessions account for the yardage, Furman moved it easier, stop trying to paint a picture that doesn't exist.

[AppChicago]

Yards per rush: Furman-5.2...App 3.9
Yards per pass attempt: Furman- 8.6... App State 7.5
Total plays: App state 84..Furman 52

Short fields and less possessions account for the yardage, Furman moved it easier, stop trying to paint a picture that doesn't exist.

At the risk of feeding an obvious troll, the asushow said "Asu dominated first downs, total yards"

Both are true.

We know we lost. I think his point is that we lost because of sloppy play, not a complete lack of offensive production.

[theasushow]

Yards per rush: Furman-5.2...App 3.9
Yards per pass attempt: Furman- 8.6... App State 7.5
Total plays: App state 84..Furman 52

Short fields and less possessions account for the yardage, Furman moved it easier, stop trying to paint a picture that doesn't exist.

ASU had 13 possessions. Furman had 12.xeyebrowx

[theasushow]

Was at the game. Furman had something to do with at least a few of those fumbles. App moved the ball pretty well but they were very sloppy. Watching that game, I'm not sure my first thought would have been that App was outplaying Furman. Certainly didn't seem that way. App had a lot of yards but they didn't seem to get that deep into Furman territory outside of the FG and the pick 6 until late in the 4th quarter.

Rough year for App. Things will get better. You can tell this season is really wearing on the players (as you would expect). Good luck to App going forward.

I am not taking anything away from Furman, they took us to the woodshed. Its just frustrating to see decent offensive production but 5 turnovers and a 27-3 score. Sadly, that is as good as the offense has looked all year, but it doesnt mean anything when you turn it over and cant put any points on the board. Good luck the rest of the way Paladins.

[chattownmocs]

ASU had 13 possessions. Furman had 12.xeyebrowx

13-11. Short field. Furman moved it better, in fact much much better until they went into a shell on their last few possessions.

[CID1990]

Your right completely, ASU just cant put a complete game together, got a great game from the QB but 5 turnovers, just one of those years. WE've all been there.

No you haven't been there! Any ASU fan under the age of 35 doesn't have an effing clue what it is to be a fan in spite of a losing team.

The easiest thing in the world over the last 20 years has been to be an App fan. Take a couple or three losing seasons in the Sun Belt, come back and we'll talk.

WCU and The Citadel has the best, most diehard fans in the SoCon. Hell we if we had the same success as ASU over the past 20 years we'd be breaking attendance records, too.

WE'VE all been there my a$$.

[theasushow]

No you haven't been there! Any ASU fan under the age of 35 doesn't have an effing clue what it is to be a fan in spite of a losing team.

The easiest thing in the world over the last 20 years has been to be an App fan. Take a couple or three losing seasons in the Sun Belt, come back and we'll talk.

WCU and The Citadel has the best, most diehard fans in the SoCon. Hell we if we had the same success as ASU over the past 20 years we'd be breaking attendance records, too.

WE'VE all been there my a$$.

I was born and raised in Chicago before I moved here and went to ASU...die hard Cubs fan my whole life. Trust me, I know what it's like to be a "fan in spite of an losing team". Sure ASU has been successful, but I am just as passionate about other sports teams, by saying we have "all been there" I didnt necessarily mean just as far as college football. As huge sports fans everybody experiences painful seasons.

[CID1990]

I was born and raised in Chicago before I moved here and went to ASU...die hard Cubs fan my whole life. I know what it's like to be a fan of an unsuccessful sports team. Sure ASU has been successful, but I am just as passionate about other sports teams, by saying we have "all been there" I didnt necessarily mean just as far as college football. As huge sports fans everybody experiences painful seasons.

Ok I'll give you that. Most of us here on AGS are used to listening to the average ASU fan.... graduated within the last 15 years and don't know crap about what it means to truly be a fan.

[theasushow]

Ok I'll give you that. Most of us here on AGS are used to listening to the average ASU fan.... graduated within the last 15 years and don't know crap about what it means to truly be a fan.

I do fall in that category, (graduated in 2006 so I havent experienced ASU failures until now) but trust me, I am scared to death of what is going to happen after a couple 2-10 seasons. And your right, the last 20 years have been some really good years which has turned a lot (not all) fans into spoiled brats. Every day now I talk to colleagues that I went to school with and I hear about how bad ASU football is, there is a huge sense of entitlement in Boone. I think that people will still go to the games because ASU has created a great game day atmosphere, but if this season is any indication, then we need to brace our selves for some major disappointment in the coming years.

[AppChicago]

I lived in SC and was a Gamecocks fan when they were the worst team in college football, and also lived in Chicago and am a Cubs fan, so even though I was a relatively recent grad (though as an '04 grad, it wasn't all sunshine and rainbows then) I know a little about lean years. I'm almost happy that we can shed some dead weight, fanwise. Personally, I wish our losing season (seasons? God, I hope not) had come before the stadium upgrades and division move, as that way we could see how many fairweathers we drop before the big moves are made. That said, newer fans are not only accustomed to winning, they're accustomed to having a reason to come back to Boone and have a truly great gameday experience. I think that will help us weather the storm.

[PaladinFan]

Asu dominated first downs, total yards, Cox and Bryant both played well.... And they were down 27-3. Defense played pretty good too, but 5 turnovers is impossible to overcome.

Bit of a red herring. Furman's defensive philosophy, for years, is to not care about yardage but to care about scores. Fowler & Co. was more than content to let App State take long clock draining drives up by 24.

At the end of the day, if that game is played 10 times, Furman wins that game 10 times. Dominating effort by the Paladins' defense.

[theasushow]

You mean furman would beat asu 10 out of 10 times? They played good but not sure I would go that far.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

Bit of a red herring. Furman's defensive philosophy, for years, is to not care about yardage but to care about scores. Fowler & Co. was more than content to let App State take long clock draining drives up by 24.

At the end of the day, if that game is played 10 times, Furman wins that game 10 times. Dominating effort by the Paladins' defense.

So were the turnovers forced or not?

I listened to the game and looked at the box score and I'm thinking if App plays like that minus the turnovers we will be in for a real dog fight.

[T-Dog]

Highlight of the day from an App fan's perspective was Sir Paladin falling off the horse. It seemed like it meant a win was coming. I know I shouldn't but I laughed until he didn't get right back up and delayed the start of the game with both school's medical teams around him.

Him getting back on for 4 quarters was more heart than some players showed.

[PaladinFan]

Highlight of the day from an App fan's perspective was Sir Paladin falling off the horse. It seemed like it meant a win was coming. I know I shouldn't but I laughed until he didn't get right back up and delayed the start of the game with both school's medical teams around him.

Him getting back on for 4 quarters was more heart than some players showed.

I realize App and GSU fans have shared chuckles at Sir Paladin's expense, but I have always failed to see it funny when a man gets thrown from a horse. That's an actual man on an actual horse.

[CID1990]

I realize App and GSU fans have shared chuckles at Sir Paladin's expense, but I have always failed to see it funny when a man gets thrown from a horse. That's an actual man on an actual horse.

No it isn't. It's a 300 lb battle axe Sunday school teacher named Maud with a blazing yeast infection. Wearing purple.

[PaladinFan]

So were the turnovers forced or not?

I listened to the game and looked at the box score and I'm thinking if App plays like that minus the turnovers we will be in for a real dog fight.

They turnovers were all credited, but it's probably a little of both. App was extremely careless with the football, and actually coughed it up eight times (just lost four).

Furman's defense (and I'm actually trying to be objective here) is quite stout. They get better each week. App struggled against them all day.

App State can certainly point to the turnovers, but Furman was penalized heavily, which resulted in killing long drives early in the game. It was a 6-3 game where it could have just as easily had been 21-0.

[BigApp]

So who out there still thinks ASU should go FBS?

I do.

[OL FU]

There are times when stats quoted here mean something, but not when the score is 27-3 with a few minutes left. Teams play based on winning and when you are up by alot letting a team get yards and even possibly score means nothing. The only stat that mattered was the score and the turnovers (which hurt ASU badly and amazingly Furman took advantage). Regardless, I hate to see it end. Best of luck to ASU.

[WataugaDave]

2-10 here we come!

[Smitty]

So are we redoing our projections for the first and second FBS seasons? I saw as high as 6 wins from people here.

[SpeedkingATL]

There are times when stats quoted here mean something, but not when the score is 27-3 with a few minutes left. Teams play based on winning and when you are up by alot letting a team get yards and even possibly score means nothing. The only stat that mattered was the score and the turnovers (which hurt ASU badly and amazingly Furman took advantage). Regardless, I hate to see it end. Best of luck to ASU.
It can be sugarcoated with yardage stats, penalty yardage, turnover stats or anything you want but Furman won by a comfortable margin and after the pick 6 the outcome of the game was never really in doubt. Scoreboard trumps all issues and the fact remains that this App team is simply not performing. I don't think this is what "transition year" was meant to be. I caught some of the WCU vs Wofford game on ESPN 3 yesterday and the Jug game will be a dogfight if Whee plays like they did yesterday.

[AppMan]

To indicate this is the same team as last year is more than a bit misleading. I agree Scott knew exactly what he was getting into. He took the job under some unusual circumstances which he was aware of.

To be perfectly clear I was not in favor of Scott being our new HC. My choice was Tim Horton, who is the RB coach at Auburn. He was at Arkansas (where he was an all conference WR and team captain in '89) as RB coach for 6 years, at Air Force where he was OC and RB coach for 6 years and at K State for a year. He was on JM's staff at App for 8 years. His resume dwarfed Scott's, but Cobb rigged the process and Tim didn't have a legit shot at the job.

[ASU_Fanatic]

I don't even care about this year anymore. I just hope we beat Western then see major improvements next year.

[SoCon2013]

To indicate this is the same team as last year is more than a bit misleading. I agree Scott knew exactly what he was getting into. He took the job under some unusual circumstances which he was aware of.

To be perfectly clear I was not in favor of Scott being our new HC. My choice was Tim Horton, who is the RB coach at Auburn. He was at Arkansas (where he was an all conference WR and team captain in '89) as RB coach for 6 years, at Air Force where he was OC and RB coach for 6 years and at K State for a year. He was on JM's staff at App for 8 years. His resume dwarfed Scott's, but Cobb rigged the process and Tim didn't have a legit shot at the job.

I thought CC walked on water.

[PaladinFan]

There are times when stats quoted here mean something, but not when the score is 27-3 with a few minutes left. Teams play based on winning and when you are up by alot letting a team get yards and even possibly score means nothing. The only stat that mattered was the score and the turnovers (which hurt ASU badly and amazingly Furman took advantage). Regardless, I hate to see it end. Best of luck to ASU.

I'll take 400 yards and 27 points over 500 yards and 10 points any day of the week.

App State was landing body blows down in the game. Furman was landing fewer punches but they were all haymakers. App played most of the game like it was winning by three touchdowns, not losing by three touchdowns.

[WataugaDave]

So are we redoing our projections for the first and second FBS seasons? I saw as high as 6 wins from people here.

My guess is 3 to 4 for next year. Idaho, Georgia State, Campbell. Georgia Southern is a maybe. Unfortunately perennial losers New Mexico State don't appear to be on our schedule for 2014.

[AppMan]

I thought CC walked on water.

Far from it as far as I'm concerned.

[SoCon2013]

Far from it as far as I'm concerned.

That's not the way you used to talk.

[HappyHippie]

That's not the way you used to talk.

His vision is not working out so well and is truly baffled that winning is earned.

[HappyHippie]

Not gleeful, just glad a light has been shown on what was actually going on. I been watching our fans drink the Kool Aid for years. Success made them stupid and blind to what was actually going on. This deal was going to crash at some point in time. JM better be happy he isn't around to face the music.

Amen!

[T-Dog]

His vision is not working out so well and is truly baffled that winning is earned.

It's not that he has talked great about CC, but rather said he was in the right when the Jerry stuff happened.

You're so wrong it's amazing. He's been talking about the cracks in the castle for years.

[HappyHippie]

It's not that he has talked great about CC, but rather said he was in the right when the Jerry stuff happened.

You're so wrong it's amazing. He's been talking about the cracks in the castle for years.


Sure sounds like Moore excuses once again.

[chattownmocs]

My guess is 3 to 4 for next year. Idaho, Georgia State, Campbell. Georgia Southern is a maybe. Unfortunately perennial losers New Mexico State don't appear to be on our schedule for 2014.

Georgia State would kick your ass this year, definitely should next year.

[T-Dog]

Sure sounds like Moore excuses once again.

Is everything you post negative? If App was to win, would you go away because that's what I think would happen.

You're point is that you and the other poster believes AppMan is changing his opinion, which he is not. He along with some others wanted Tim Horton as HFC and it almost happened. He's along with others have always been critical of Cobb (Fancher/Buzz/Capel, cups with ice, being frugal with coaches, etc) Just because some people don't want Cobb fired doesn't mean they worship the ground he walks on.

[AppMan]

That's not the way you used to talk.

You must have me confused with someone else. I give him credit when due, but I bust his chops far more.

IMO, Cobb has done nothing spectacular since arriving in Boone. Following an incompetent like Laney you have to look good, but Cobb has been far more lucky than good. Other than changing game times to 3:30, which is what some of us tried to get Laney to do, I can't really think of anything he has done out of the box. A lot of people give him credit for increasing the football budget, but the reality is Chancellor Peacock was the driving force behind that whole deal. KP was given a mandate by some influential alumni on the BOT to get the program straightened out and gave Cobb the purse strings to make it happen. The reality is Cobb had little if anything directly to do with creating a need for the new facilities, the increases in attendance and donations. Call me crazy, but the overwhelming amount of credit should go to #14 and his cohorts. What Cobb has done is destroy a basketball program on the verge of being very solid and bloating the number of athletic department personnel. He spent way too much on the stadium upgrades and expansion, but took the cheap route on hiring coaches. He has terrible people skills, does not mix or communicate well with alumni, comes across as not being very sharp and is simply awful at telling a jokes. One thing is for sure, Cobb has put the ASU Athletic's Department in a financial mess.

PS: Thanks T-Dog

[SoCon2013]

Is everything you post negative? If App was to win, would you go away because that's what I think would happen.

You're point is that you and the other poster believes AppMan is changing his opinion, which he is not. He along with some others wanted Tim Horton as HFC and it almost happened. He's along with others have always been critical of Cobb (Fancher/Buzz/Capel, cups with ice, being frugal with coaches, etc) Just because some people don't want Cobb fired doesn't mean they worship the ground he walks on.

AppMan was NEVER critical of Fancher.

[SoCon2013]

You must have me confused with someone else. I give him credit when due, but I bust his chops far more.

IMO, Cobb has done nothing spectacular since arriving in Boone. Following an incompetent like Laney you have to look good, but Cobb has been far more lucky than good. Other than changing game times to 3:30, which is what some of us tried to get Laney to do, I can't really think of anything he has done out of the box. A lot of people give him credit for increasing the football budget, but the reality is Chancellor Peacock was the driving force behind that whole deal. KP was given a mandate by some influential alumni on the BOT to get the program straightened out and gave Cobb the purse strings to make it happen. The reality is Cobb had little if anything directly to do with creating a need for the new facilities, the increases in attendance and donations. Call me crazy, but the overwhelming amount of credit should go to #14 and his cohorts. What Cobb has done is destroy a basketball program on the verge of being very solid and bloating the number of athletic department personnel. He spent way too much on the stadium upgrades and expansion, but took the cheap route on hiring coaches. He has terrible people skills, does not mix or communicate well with alumni, comes across as not being very sharp and is simply awful at telling a jokes. One thing is for sure, Cobb has put the ASU Athletic's Department in a financial mess.

PS: Thanks T-Dog

That is one of the very few times I've ever seen you say ANYTHING negative about Cobb.

[Sir William]

To be perfectly clear I was not in favor of Scott being our new HC. My choice was Tim Horton, who is the RB coach at Auburn. He was at Arkansas (where he was an all conference WR and team captain in '89) as RB coach for 6 years, at Air Force where he was OC and RB coach for 6 years and at K State for a year. He was on JM's staff at App for 8 years. His resume dwarfed Scott's, but Cobb rigged the process and Tim didn't have a legit shot at the job.

Actually, Horton was hired by Calhoun at Air Force 7 years ago as OC, but never coached a single down for the Falcons. The RB opportunity came up at Arkansas, where his dad was on staff, and Horton took it immediately right as AFA summer summer practice was about to begin. He remained there until Malzahn picked him up at Auburn. Horton was at K-State for more than one season, IIRC. MORE IMPORTANTLY FOR FURMAN FANS, it was Horton who was instrumental in hiring Furman's great OL coach Clay Hendrix away to AFA, where he remains today. (Incidentally, Hendrix's OL at the Academy is the bright spot of a down season for the Falcons. And his OLs over the past 7 seasons have been some of the best in the MWC.)

Back on topic, Horton would have been a great HC at App.

[proasu89]

Actually, Horton was hired by Calhoun at Air Force 7 years ago as OC, but never coached a single down for the Falcons. The RB opportunity came up at Arkansas, where his dad was on staff, and Horton took it immediately right as AFA summer summer practice was about to begin. He remained there until Malzahn picked him up at Auburn. Horton was at K-State for more than one season, IIRC. MORE IMPORTANTLY FOR FURMAN FANS, it was Horton who was instrumental in hiring Furman's great OL coach Clay Hendrix away to AFA, where he remains today. (Incidentally, Hendrix's OL at the Academy is the bright spot of a down season for the Falcons. And his OLs over the past 7 seasons have been some of the best in the MWC.)

Back on topic, Horton would have been a great HC at App.

Yep!xnodx

[T-Dog]

AppMan was NEVER critical of Fancher.

I was talking about the sudden firing of Fancher with a year left on his deal (and a great team returning), the begging of Buzz and the mess he left in his departure, plus the hiring of Jason Capel.

One thing you can say about Fancher is he graduated his players. He won half of his games, but he had to turn around a program left in shambles in 2000 after Buzz left the first time and Rufus Leach died (App was also a victim of the now-defunct "five and eight" rule, which was the precursor to the APR).

Fancher wasn't the greatest coach, but he was a class act, had high academic marks on his teams and a great representative of the school.

[Mr. C]

Actually, Horton was hired by Calhoun at Air Force 7 years ago as OC, but never coached a single down for the Falcons. The RB opportunity came up at Arkansas, where his dad was on staff, and Horton took it immediately right as AFA summer summer practice was about to begin. He remained there until Malzahn picked him up at Auburn. Horton was at K-State for more than one season, IIRC. MORE IMPORTANTLY FOR FURMAN FANS, it was Horton who was instrumental in hiring Furman's great OL coach Clay Hendrix away to AFA, where he remains today. (Incidentally, Hendrix's OL at the Academy is the bright spot of a down season for the Falcons. And his OLs over the past 7 seasons have been some of the best in the MWC.)

Back on topic, Horton would have been a great HC at App.
That was actually Tim Horton's second tenure on the Air Force staff, in between his stint with Ron Prince at Kansas State. Horton also coached at Air Force from 1999-2005 under former ASU coordinator Fisher DeBerry.

[Skjellyfetti]

IMO, Cobb has done nothing spectacular since arriving in Boone. Following an incompetent like Laney you have to look good, but Cobb has been far more lucky than good. Other than changing game times to 3:30, which is what some of us tried to get Laney to do, I can't really think of anything he has done out of the box.

I agree with you to an extent. I don't think Cobb is solely responsible for our success over the past decade. Our fundraising has gone through the roof... but, as you say... Peacock and others share in that.

However, you really can't think of anything other than changing game times to 3:30 Cobb has done?

Thinking back on some of your campaigns on the Delphi forums... stadium cups and the old Yosef logo... both of which have been brought back in recent years. Both relatively minor, sure. But, they were certainly turned into big deals on the old MMB.

But, I think you're forgetting perhaps your biggest campaign... and... something that Cobb is responsible for (again, not solely). FCS to FBS? No credit for Cobb on that?