AGS Poll Results - Week 3 2013

[AGSPoll]

Results for 09/16/2013 AGS Poll:



1
North Dakota State Bison
1974
78


2
Towson Tigers
1813



3
Eastern Washington Eagles
1756
1


4
Sam Houston State Bearkats
1650



5
Northern Iowa Panthers
1559



6
Montana State Bobcats
1485



7
South Dakota State Jackrabbits
1469



8
Eastern Illinois Panthers
1463



9
Montana Grizzlies
1351



10
Wofford Terriers
1095



11
New Hampshire Wildcats
1052



12
Fordham Rams
1003



13
McNeese State Cowboys
998



14
Stony Brook Seawolves
727



15
Coastal Carolina Chanticleers
720



16
Cal Poly Mustangs
639



17
Central Arkansas Bears
636



18
James Madison Dukes
606



19
Bethune-Cookman Wildcats
499



20
Tennessee-Martin Skyhawks
406



21
Samford Bulldogs
333



22
Maine Black Bears
314



23
Northern Arizona Lumberjacks
300



24
Youngstown State Penguins
298



25
Villanova Wildcats
265
0















Most Significant Wins:





Fordham Rams











Most Significant Loss:





Richmond Spiders











ORV:




26
William & Mary Tribe
250



27
Richmond Spiders
209



28
Lehigh Mountain Hawks
184



29
North Carolina A&T Aggies
137



30
Southern Utah Thunderbirds
71



31
Liberty Flames
66



32
Illinois State Redbirds
65



33
Jacksonville State Gamecocks
55



34
Gardner-Webb Runnin' Bulldogs
47



35
Chattanooga Mocs
43



36
Southern Illinois Salukis
32



37
Delaware Fightin' Blue Hens
29



38
Charleston Southern Buccaneers
20



39
Southeastern Louisiana Lions
16



40
Sacred Heart Pioneers
10

[BEAR]

Fair enough by the voters. I think you'll see those teams that are struggling start to pick it up again. (wink wink) xlolx

[citdog]

GOOD looking poll voters! NICELY DONE!

[Twentysix]

Lol @ NAU being ranked.

Perhaps USD deserves a ranking, they have given a similar showing up to this point lol.

[IBleedYellow]

Looks pretty good. I'm actually surprised that my poll wasn't too far off of this!

[dbackjon]

Pretty good.

Tennessee Martin should be ahead of UCA. Not sure I would even rank UCA at this point

[BisonBacker]

I have Fordham in my top 25 but I think this is a little high.

[citdog]

I have Fordham in my top 25 but I think this is a little high.


maybe........but not le high!

[ursus arctos horribilis]

I have Fordham in my top 25 but I think this is a little high.

So far, could you name 11 better resumes?

[BisonBacker]

McNeese is another head scratcher. I had them in my top 25 also but hard to place them given their performances so far this year.

[bjtheflamesfan]

Rip away:

1: North Dakota State Bison
2: Sam Houston State Bearkats
3: Eastern Washington Eagles
4: Towson Tigers
5: Montana State Bobcats
6: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
7: Cal Poly Mustangs
8: Montana Grizzlies
9: Eastern Illinois Panthers
10: Northern Iowa Panthers
11: New Hampshire Wildcats
12: Wofford Terriers
13: Stony Brook Seawolves
14: Central Arkansas Bears
15: Coastal Carolina Chanticleers
16: James Madison Dukes
17: Fordham Rams
18: Samford Bulldogs
19: Youngstown State Penguins
20: McNeese State Cowboys
21: Bethune-Cookman Wildcats
22: Lehigh Mountain Hawks
23: Maine Black Bears
24: Richmond Spiders
25: Illinois State Redbirds

[superman7515]

I'm just happy the win and loss weren't the same game this week.

http://press.take88.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/Screen-shot-2010-11-19-at-11.25.55-AM.png

[andy7171]

#2 Towson Tigers
xbeerchugx

[BisonBacker]

So far, could you name 11 better resumes?
Right off the top of my head I'd say Coastal Carolina shouldn't be behind them.

[gotts]

Right off the top of my head I'd say Coastal Carolina shouldn't be behind them.

Respectfully disagree.

[Twentysix]

Right off the top of my head I'd say Coastal Carolina shouldn't be behind them.

Also disagree.

[chattownmocs]

1. NDSU
2. SHSU
3. Montana
4. Montana State
5. EWU
6. UTM
7. Wofford
8. Fordham
9. Towson
10. UNI
11. UTC
12. SDSU
13. EIU
14. UNH
15. Mcneese
16. UCA
17. Coastal Carolina
18. Samford
19. Northern Arizona
20. Cal Poly
21. Stony Brook
22. Lehigh
23. Richmond
24. Illinois State
25. Bethune

[Twentysix]

1: North Dakota State Bison
2: Towson Tigers
3: Northern Iowa Panthers
4: Eastern Illinois Panthers
5: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
6: Eastern Washington Eagles
7: Montana Grizzlies
8: Sam Houston State Bearkats
9: Fordham Rams
10: Stony Brook Seawolves
11: Samford Bulldogs
12: William & Mary Tribe
13: Southern Illinois Salukis
14: Maine Black Bears
15: Youngstown State Penguins
16: Coastal Carolina Chanticleers
17: Southern Utah Thunderbirds
18: Montana State Bobcats
19: Southeastern Louisiana Lions
20: Liberty Flames
21: Wofford Terriers
22: Bethune-Cookman Wildcats
23: McNeese State Cowboys
24: Tennessee-Martin Skyhawks
25: James Madison Dukes

[Dane96]

I have Fordham in my top 25 but I think this is a little high.

Ya' kiddin? They beat an FBS team, throttled URI and beat Villanova. Frankly, that's one of the best resumes out there if you are looking at it in a blind test.

[Dane96]

Right off the top of my head I'd say Coastal Carolina shouldn't be behind them.

Please explain.

[BisonBacker]

The Temple game is what pushed them up that far I get that. I also get that it's an FBS game. The quality of that win will be determined later in the season as Temple progresses through their schedule but right now they (temple) are an 0-3 team.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Right off the top of my head I'd say Coastal Carolina shouldn't be behind them.

Also disagree.

What about CCU's resume seems better than Fordham's at this point? We expected pretty good things from Villanova, they were a top 5 team I think in the preseason and Fordham handled them. Then they take down Temple the next week. If your philosophy is not to let yourself be tied up in what you expected and instead go with what has actually happened I think it would be really tough to argue your case. CCU is also doing very well so don't get me wrong.

[BisonBacker]

I maybe proved wrong if Temple turns things around but right now all I'm going to hold judgement on just where they belong.

[BisonBacker]

Also disagree.

What about CCU's resume seems better than Fordham's at this point? We expected pretty good things from Villanova, they were a top 5 team I think in the preseason and Fordham handled them. Then they take down Temple the next week. If your philosophy is not to let yourself be tied up in what you expected and instead go with what has actually happened I think it would be really tough to argue your case. CCU is also doing very well so don't get me wrong.

To be honest I"m more impressed with the win against Nova then the win against Temple.

[chattownmocs]

The Temple game is what pushed them up that far I get that. I also get that it's an FBS game. The quality of that win will be determined later in the season as Temple progresses through their schedule but right now they (temple) are an 0-3 team.
that's rich. If that's the case you guys really need to stfu about your past FBS wins because every last one of them was absolutely terrible.

[bjtheflamesfan]

UTC has zero quality wins and their one matchup against a team actually in the top 25 currently, #20 Tennessee-Martin, wasn't even that close, and if memory serves me correctly, THIS is what you said about that game before the season:


UT Martin
http://www.nooga.com/162137/mocs-201...ead-ut-martin/ (http://www.nooga.com/162137/mocs-2013-opponent-look-ahead-ut-martin/)


Chattowns prediction: Mocs roll. 31-10

As Ive said multiple times already, you get the week off then a chance as a "signature win" against the outgoing Eagles. Win that one, then we can talk about UTC being ranked (although they probably still will be in the lower fifth of the poll, lower half max). Lose that game, and UTC probably won't even sniff the top 40 next week.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

I maybe proved wrong if Temple turns things around but right now all I'm going to hold judgement on just where they belong.
Temple may not be a good FBS team but I'd have to say that going and beating them is a good win, a very good win for an FCS team. Hell Villanova has a damn tough time getting a win at Temple and if they do get a win there then they are on their way to the playoffs that year probably.

[BisonBacker]

that's rich. If that's the case you guys really need to stfu about your past FBS wins because every last one of them was absolutely terrible.

I can't wait for you to crawl back into your hole once the mighty moc's get pasted. We won't see you again till next fall xlolx
Come back and spout off when the Moc's do something and then we'll talk.

[chattownmocs]

UTC has zero quality wins and their one matchup against a team actually in the top 25 currently, #20 Tennessee-Martin, wasn't even that close, and if memory serves me correctly, THIS is what you said about that game before the season:



As Ive said multiple times already, you get the week off then a chance as a "signature win" against the outgoing Eagles. Win that one, then we can talk about UTC being ranked (although they probably still will be in the lower fifth of the poll, lower half max). Lose that game, and UTC probably won't even sniff the top 40 next week.

Its not my fault uneducated fools didn't rank UT Martin. I know Chattanooga was ranked in the top 20 and UCA was ranked in the top 10 when UTM beat them but I guess BOTH of those teams are completely overrated right. Oh wait, you ranked UCA? What a ridiculous hypocrite you are. Are you stupid?

[BisonBacker]

Temple may not be a good FBS team but I'd have to say that going and beating them is a good win, a very good win for an FCS team. Hell Villanova has a damn tough time getting a win at Temple and if they do get a win there then they are on their way to the playoffs that year probably.

Fair enough I think everyone got their dander up when I said that. Not saying they don't belong in the top 25 because they do. Just the Temple win will lose some luster if Temple continues to tank. As to the rest of the teams and where they belong it's all opinion and we all have em. Just was surprised they showed up that high. I maybe proved wrong (wouldn't be a first).

[Dane96]

FORDHAM:

Beat URI 51-26 (Loss@ SBU; W @ Albany)
Beat 'NOVA 27-24 (Loss @ BC by 10)
Beat @ Temple 30-29 (Loss @ ND by 22; Loss Houston by 9)

COASTAL:

Beat @ SCSU 27-20 (Throttled @ Clemson; Beat Alabama A&M)
Beat Furman 35-28 (Loss @ G-W; Beat Presbyterian by 1)
Beat @ EKU 51- 32 (Beat Robert Morris; Throttled by Lousiville)

Dunno...I think ultimately, Fordham has / will have played (down the line) better teams than Coastal so far.

[Fordham]

Ya' kiddin? They beat an FBS team, throttled a Patriot team, and beat Villanova. Frankly, that's one of the best resumes out there if you are looking at it in a blind test.
Thanks Dane. Slight correction - we haven't played any Patriot League teams yet. Our throttling was of CAA team URI.

[Dane96]

I saw that...and corrected. It was a slip...and I watched the URI game against Fordham. DOH!

[uofmman1122]

Who are the MVFC homers that still have SDSU ahead of us?

We just played the same team a week apart, and the results weren't even close.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

1: North Dakota State Bison
2: Towson Tigers
3: Northern Iowa Panthers
4: Eastern Illinois Panthers
5: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
6: Eastern Washington Eagles
7: Montana Grizzlies
8: Sam Houston State Bearkats
9: Fordham Rams
10: Coastal Carolina Chanticleers
11: New Hampshire Wildcats
12: McNeese State Cowboys
13: Wofford Terriers
14: Montana State Bobcats
15: Liberty Flames
16: Tennessee-Martin Skyhawks
17: James Madison Dukes
18: Central Arkansas Bears
19: Samford Bulldogs
20: Maine Black Bears
21: Stony Brook Seawolves
22: William & Mary Tribe
23: North Carolina A&T Aggies
24: Lehigh Mountain Hawks
25: Richmond Spiders

Few notes
- Lehigh will take care of themselves over the next 3 weeks, @ Princeton, UNH, @ Fordham
- Towson is nasty, as is Montana
- I'm a big fan of Big South mates Liberty and CCU
- Starting to get a better read on SHSU and Wofford
- The CAA is about to beat themselves up
- MSU is still darn good but they really need McGhee back

[citdog]

1: North Dakota State Bison
2: Towson Tigers
3: Northern Iowa Panthers
4: Eastern Illinois Panthers
5: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
6: Eastern Washington Eagles
7: Montana Grizzlies
8: Sam Houston State Bearkats
9: Fordham Rams
10: Coastal Carolina Chanticleers
11: New Hampshire Wildcats
12: McNeese State Cowboys
13: Wofford Terriers
14: Montana State Bobcats
15: Liberty Flames
16: Tennessee-Martin Skyhawks
17: James Madison Dukes
18: Central Arkansas Bears
19: Samford Bulldogs
20: Maine Black Bears
21: Stony Brook Seawolves
22: William & Mary Tribe
23: North Carolina A&T Aggies
24: Lehigh Mountain Hawks
25: Richmond Spiders

Few notes
- Lehigh will take of themselves over the next 3 weeks, @ Princeton, UNH, @ Fordham
- Towson is nasty, as is Montana
- I'm a big fan of Big South mates Liberty and CCU
- Starting to get a better read on SHSU and Wofford
- The CAA is about to each themselves up
- MSU is still darn good but they really need McGhee back




there isn't ONE TEAM in our top 25 that le high could stay within 21 points of. you le high homers are the WORST.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

there isn't ONE TEAM in our top 25 that le high could stay within 21 points of. you le high homers are the WORST.

Why don't you just let things play out? If that's true then it will happen. Your consistent rant on Lehigh is beyond childish.

FYI, Lehigh is 23-2 all time against Fordham, they have to prove they can beat LU....

[knucklehead]

1: North Dakota State Bison
2: Towson Tigers
3: Northern Iowa Panthers
4: Eastern Illinois Panthers
5: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
6: Eastern Washington Eagles
7: Montana Grizzlies
8: Sam Houston State Bearkats
9: Fordham Rams
10: Coastal Carolina Chanticleers
11: New Hampshire Wildcats
12: McNeese State Cowboys
13: Wofford Terriers
14: Montana State Bobcats
15: Liberty Flames
16: Tennessee-Martin Skyhawks
17: James Madison Dukes
18: Central Arkansas Bears
19: Samford Bulldogs
20: Maine Black Bears
21: Stony Brook Seawolves
22: William & Mary Tribe
23: North Carolina A&T Aggies
24: Lehigh Mountain Hawks
25: Richmond Spiders

Few notes
- Lehigh will take of themselves over the next 3 weeks, @ Princeton, UNH, @ Fordham
- Towson is nasty, as is Montana
- I'm a big fan of Big South mates Liberty and CCU
- Starting to get a better read on SHSU and Wofford
- The CAA is about to each themselves up
- MSU is still darn good but they really need McGhee back



As a Liberty Fan and Big South Fan, I agree with you. I think both are underrated. not quite as high as you have them, but underrated..

[Grizalltheway]

I think a strong case can be made for putting Montana above SDSU at this point.xtwocentsx

[bjtheflamesfan]

Its not my fault uneducated fools didn't rank UT Martin. I know Chattanooga was ranked in the top 20 and UCA was ranked in the top 10 when UTM beat them but I guess BOTH of those teams are completely overrated right. Oh wait, you ranked UCA? What a ridiculous hypocrite you are. Are you stupid?


Actually UT-M is underrated in my view. I noted in another discussion that my browser crashed before I could submit my ballot and I had to reconstitute my poll from memory as best I could. That said, Id still have ranked UT-M ahead of UTC even if I had ranked the Mocs at all, which I didn't because as I said, they have zero quality wins at this point in the season.

[Twentysix]

Who are the MVFC homers that still have SDSU ahead of us?

We just played the same team a week apart, and the results weren't even close.

Me!!!

[uofmman1122]

Me!!!Do explain, then. xcoffeex

I hope your reasoning is better than "I had them there in my preseason poll, so....yeah."

[Twentysix]

Do explain, then. xcoffeex

Cause I can! Who are the Big Sky homers putting EWU ahead of NDSU? I saw that #1 vote :p.

[Twentysix]

Do explain, then. xcoffeex

I hope your reasoning is better than "I had them there in my preseason poll, so....yeah."

Seriously though, imo SELA is a better win than UND, which you both have.

App also let you guys down. They have yet to prove they don't suck.

They are pretty close, SDSU and UM.

[superman7515]

1: North Dakota State Bison
2: Towson Tigers
3: Northern Iowa Panthers
4: Eastern Illinois Panthers
5: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
6: Eastern Washington Eagles
7: Montana Grizzlies
8: Sam Houston State Bearkats
9: Fordham Rams
10: Coastal Carolina Chanticleers
11: New Hampshire Wildcats
12: McNeese State Cowboys
13: Wofford Terriers
14: Montana State Bobcats
15: Liberty Flames
16: Tennessee-Martin Skyhawks
17: James Madison Dukes
18: Central Arkansas Bears
19: Samford Bulldogs
20: Maine Black Bears
21: Stony Brook Seawolves
22: William & Mary Tribe
23: North Carolina A&T Aggies
24: Lehigh Mountain Hawks
25: Richmond Spiders


Lehigh struggles against hot garbage in back to back weeks, Richmond loses at home to Gardner-Webb, Coastal Carolina gets catapulted to your top ten for a win over unranked Eastern Kentucky, Samford beats a winless FAMU team by a touchdown and is in your top 20... But Bethune-Cookman drops a FBS team by 21 and nothing... Go ahead, I'll wait.

[citdog]

Why don't you just let things play out? If that's true then it will happen. Your consistent rant on Lehigh is beyond childish.

FYI, Lehigh is 23-2 all time against Fordham, they have to prove they can beat LU....


why don't y'all quit sandbagging our poll by placing your team amongst the Top 25?

[Twentysix]

1: North Dakota State Bison
2: Towson Tigers
3: Northern Iowa Panthers
4: Eastern Illinois Panthers
5: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
6: Eastern Washington Eagles
7: Montana Grizzlies
8: Sam Houston State Bearkats
9: Fordham Rams
10: Coastal Carolina Chanticleers
11: New Hampshire Wildcats
12: McNeese State Cowboys
13: Wofford Terriers
14: Montana State Bobcats
15: Liberty Flames
16: Tennessee-Martin Skyhawks
17: James Madison Dukes
18: Central Arkansas Bears
19: Samford Bulldogs
20: Maine Black Bears
21: Stony Brook Seawolves
22: William & Mary Tribe
23: North Carolina A&T Aggies
24: Lehigh Mountain Hawks
25: Richmond Spiders

Few notes
- Lehigh will take of themselves over the next 3 weeks, @ Princeton, UNH, @ Fordham
- Towson is nasty, as is Montana
- I'm a big fan of Big South mates Liberty and CCU
- Starting to get a better read on SHSU and Wofford
- The CAA is about to beat themselves up
- MSU is still darn good but they really need McGhee back



Wow our top 9 are identical.

[Pard4Life]

Pretty good... my top ten almost identical... same teams almost, slightly different order. I have Fordham at #9, not far off from #12... I still have Illinois State in, but debated dropping them... still near the bottom though.

I place of Samford and Maine, I have Ill. State and Penn (25)... will see if they merit that on Saturday. Anyhow, Penn plays Pards, Tride, and Nova. If they go 3-0, then yes, they deserve a ranking for sure.

[Pard4Life]

Lehigh does not deserve a place in the poll. And I am not speaking from a Pard perspective. Monmouth was bad... and CCSU, though as supposed to be bad but actually looks pretty decent, handled Lehigh. With comments from Lehigh fans such as "this is the worst I've seen them play since the 60s", it seems to be ok to leave them out of the poll.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Cause I can! Who are the Big Sky homers putting EWU ahead of NDSU? I saw that #1 vote :p.

It isn't a BSC voter and also to any UM guys claiming MVFC homerism about SDSU would be incorrect as well. It's always the easy thing to go with I guess but I've put the conference stats and the claims don't hold.

On my own ballot the two teams are neck & neck. SDSU's resume is slightly better than UM's at this point. I don't give a rat's ass about the transitional scores arguments. "We beat them by more" doesn't mean a damn thing.

Now if you say our defense pinned UND down better and our offense is not as one dimensional as SDSU's is then we'd have something.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Lehigh struggles against hot garbage in back to back weeks, Richmond loses at home to Gardner-Webb, Coastal Carolina gets catapulted to your top ten for a win over unranked Eastern Kentucky, Samford beats a winless FAMU team by a touchdown and is in your top 20... But Bethune-Cookman drops a FBS team by 21 and nothing... Go ahead, I'll wait.

- Lehigh will either sink or swim over the next few weeks...teams struggle, JMU, McNeese etc. LU has nowhere to hide now...
-Samford showed well in their 10 pt loss to a SEC team, they can notch a decent win this week agaisnt SELA
- I've been praising CCU and Liberty all season. They just didn't beat unranked EKU they destroyed them.
- Richmond is still a good team imo and has a chance to prove that against the Flames this week
- The MEAC has struggled more than any conference in the country over the last 15 years. At this point I have more faith in A&T...

[RabidRabbit]

ChattownMocs - Other than UTC support, why would you believe that UTC should be higher than 3-0 teams, including FBS wins and power FCS schools?

26 - MT St at 16? take that drop is due to QB injury?

BJ - What's the thought behind a 1-2 Cal Poly higher than Montana - 2-0?

In my poll which I'll post separately, I have Montana/SDSU about the same. However, SDSU is 3-0, and there has been NO reason to change their position up or down. Next two games for the Jacks will be interesting if stay in top 10. SDSU wins both games, there is strong reason to consider them for #1.

[uofmman1122]

Seriously though, imo SELA is a better win than UND, which you both have.

App also let you guys down. They have yet to prove they don't suck.

They are pretty close, SDSU and UM.That's fine, but we just blew out the same team that took SDSU to the wire.

I know the transitive property only goes so far, but a 7-point win and a 38-point win is a pretty significant difference.

[Nova09]

By this poll, which I know things will change as teams beat up on each other, Nova goes 9 games into the season with only one not top 26 (ok, BC isn't in the poll, but are BCS). Unfortunately, dropping the first 2 has put us in a very difficult position. And some ppl actually argue CAA teams make the playoffs solely due to playing 1 FBS game, regardless of result.

[Twentysix]

It isn't a BSC voter and also to any UM guys claiming MVFC homerism about SDSU would be incorrect as well. It's always the easy thing to go with I guess but I've put the conference stats and the claims don't hold.

On my own ballot the two teams are neck & neck. SDSU's resume is slightly better than UM's at this point. I don't give a rat's ass about the transitional scores arguments. "We beat them by more" doesn't mean a damn thing.

Now if you say our defense pinned UND down better and our offense is not as one dimensional as SDSU's is then we'd have something.

Haha yeah, I am just flinging his question back upon him. They are pretty close IMO, SDSU vs UM would be a good game at either stadium.

[BlueHenSinfonian]

1: North Dakota State Bison
2: Eastern Washington Eagles
3: Towson Tigers
4: Northern Iowa Panthers
5: Montana State Bobcats
6: Fordham Rams
7: Eastern Illinois Panthers
8: McNeese State Cowboys
9: Sam Houston State Bearkats
10: Montana Grizzlies
11: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
12: Coastal Carolina Chanticleers
13: Wofford Terriers
14: Bethune-Cookman Wildcats
15: Maine Black Bears
16: North Carolina A&T Aggies
17: New Hampshire Wildcats
18: Lehigh Mountain Hawks
19: Jacksonville State Gamecocks
20: Tennessee-Martin Skyhawks
21: Samford Bulldogs
22: James Madison Dukes
23: William & Mary Tribe
24: Southern Utah Thunderbirds
25: Stony Brook Seawolves

I try to keep teams out that don't have winning records, but an even record with a FBS or big FCS win can make for an exception. Lehigh's wins may have been a bit ugly, but they rallied and pulled them off. It doesn't matter if you're down by 21 going into the 4th quarter if you have more points than the other team at the end of the game. I'm feeling the same regarding Montana State, they may have lost their best QB, but until they prove they can't take that in stride I won't punish them for it.

The bottom half is still murky, but that will coalesce into something that makes more sense as the season goes on.

This may be the highest ranking I've ever had for two MEAC teams.

[bjtheflamesfan]

It isn't a BSC voter and also to any UM guys claiming MVFC homerism about SDSU would be incorrect as well. It's always the easy thing to go with I guess but I've put the conference stats and the claims don't hold.

On my own ballot the two teams are neck & neck. SDSU's resume is slightly better than UM's at this point. I don't give a rat's ass about the transitional scores arguments. "We beat them by more" doesn't mean a damn thing.

Now if you say our defense pinned UND down better and our offense is not as one dimensional as SDSU's is then we'd have something.

I had the Jackrabbits 6 and Grizzlies 8 on my ballot and it was a close call when I put the ballot together too(even when I had to put it back together once my Firefox restarted)

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Lehigh does not deserve a place in the poll. And I am not speaking from a Pard perspective. Monmouth was bad... and CCSU, though as supposed to be bad but actually looks pretty decent, handled Lehigh. With comments from Lehigh fans such as "this is the worst I've seen them play since the 60s", it seems to be ok to leave them out of the poll.

Why don't you just let things take its course? Until they lose I think they should be left in. Kind of the champion until they lose. They have nowhere to hide over the next 3 weeks. If they suck they'll lose next week. Princeton has the respect of PL fans in general.

Lehigh's win on Saturday was their 15th straight regular season road win. I don't care who you are, that's damn impressive...

[BlueHenSinfonian]

Lehigh struggles against hot garbage in back to back weeks, Richmond loses at home to Gardner-Webb, Coastal Carolina gets catapulted to your top ten for a win over unranked Eastern Kentucky, Samford beats a winless FAMU team by a touchdown and is in your top 20... But Bethune-Cookman drops a FBS team by 21 and nothing... Go ahead, I'll wait.

Samford has a FBS win too (GA State, true, but still...) and held their own against the Razorbacks. Bethune Cookman deserves to be ranked, but Samford does too I think.

[Twentysix]

ChattownMocs - Other than UTC support, why would you believe that UTC should be higher than 3-0 teams, including FBS wins and power FCS schools?

26 - MT St at 16? take that drop is due to QB injury?

BJ - What's the thought behind a 1-2 Cal Poly higher than Montana - 2-0?

In my poll which I'll post separately, I have Montana/SDSU about the same. However, SDSU is 3-0, and there has been NO reason to change their position up or down. Next two games for the Jacks will be interesting if stay in top 10. SDSU wins both games, there is strong reason to consider them for #1.

I have little faith in MSU without DM. They have a great team, but without their QB they aren't top 15 imo. And until he plays a game forgoing a Medical Redshirt I will keep them there, or if they surprise everyone without him.

[superman7515]

Cause I can! Who are the Big Sky homers putting EWU ahead of NDSU? I saw that #1 vote :p.

I had Eastern Washington #1 last week and don't penalize teams for a loss to FBS schools.

[bjtheflamesfan]

ChattownMocs - Other than UTC support, why would you believe that UTC should be higher than 3-0 teams, including FBS wins and power FCS schools?

26 - MT St at 16? take that drop is due to QB injury?

BJ - What's the thought behind a 1-2 Cal Poly higher than Montana - 2-0?

In my poll which I'll post separately, I have Montana/SDSU about the same. However, SDSU is 3-0, and there has been NO reason to change their position up or down. Next two games for the Jacks will be interesting if stay in top 10. SDSU wins both games, there is strong reason to consider them for #1.

RR- my keeping CP so high is due to my general rule to not punish teams for losses to FBS teams (which CP had in back to back games). Even if NDSU had lost to K-State, I would not have dropped them for that reason. FBS games, suffice to say, are not games that FCS teams are expected to win (except GSU who couldnt beat a team of Uncle Rico retreads that was coached personally by me), so I don't drop teams for losing those games. Now you can move up with a win over an FBS school (and just because I know that butthurt chattown will probably focus on that statement, UTC lost to UT-M in week 1 and they do not have the resume even with the win over GSU to warrant being in the top 25, much less #11 where he has them), but I don't drop teams for losing "up games".

[Twentysix]

That's fine, but we just blew out the same team that took SDSU to the wire.

I know the transitive property only goes so far, but a 7-point win and a 38-point win is a pretty significant difference.

EWU is a 66 point favorite over weber st right? :p Football is kind of like rock paper scissors in some regards.

[KUlawJack]

That's fine, but we just blew out the same team that took SDSU to the wire.

I know the transitive property only goes so far, but a 7-point win and a 38-point win is a pretty significant difference.

You answered your own question. The transitive property doesn't work. Perhaps UND was significantly deflated after the game with SDSU and put forward less effort against UM, leading to the larger blowout. Perhaps UM is just better than SDSU. Perhaps SDSU should never have taken their foot off the gas against UND leading to the close score. In any event, it will shake out in the coming weeks.

We are 3-0 so I'm not going to complain if the teams were switched.

[RowdyRabbit]

I'm new to the ranking thing, but I try to follow all of FCS the best I can (it's tough with two kids under 4, a lot of games to look at) but I'd like to someday have a vote so I decided after the games two days ago to start putting together my own top 25 list, and see how it compares to you guys, aka "the pro's". Here's my list...



1 North Dakota State


2 Eastern Washington


3 Towson


4 Montana St.


5 Sam Houston State


6 Northern Iowa


7 Eastern Illinois


8 Montana


9 Fordham


10 South Dakota State


11 Wofford


12 Stony Brook


13 McNeese State


14 James Madison


15 Central Arkansas


16 Youngstown State


17 Cal Poly


18 New Hampshire


19 Villanova


20 Coastal Carolina


21 Northern Arizona


22 Bethune Cookman


23 Illinois State


24 Tennessee Martin


25 Samford



Comparing the two, about the only glaring differences are that perhaps I didn't drop Illinois St. enough for the drilling they took, and Youngstown State, I was surprised they dropped so much. I probably placed Coastal Carolina to low as well.

I don't think I did to shabby overall though.

[citdog]

Why don't you just let things take its course? Until they lose I think they should be left in. Kind of the champion until they lose. They have nowhere to hide over the next 3 weeks. If they suck they'll lose next week. Princeton has the respect of PL fans in general.

Lehigh's win on Saturday was their 15th straight regular season road win. I don't care who you are, that's damn impressive...


you measure yourself against PRINCETON? they suck equally as much as le high

play 15 patsys and you BRAG???????


again le high voters have NO SHAME!

[frozennorth]

Who are the MVFC homers that still have SDSU ahead of us?

We just played the same team a week apart, and the results weren't even close.

for the first 45 minutes they were. 35-14 vs 47-17. SDSU does appear to be heaving some problems in their secondary, and agree that UM is probably the better team right now.

[Gil Dobie]

I had Eastern Washington #1 last week and don't penalize teams for a loss to FBS schools.

It was a winnable game for EWU, not like playing Baylor. I judge my drop according to the competition, not just if it's FBS or FCS or DII. Hard/fast rules get me in trouble when it's time to vote.

Nova win was bigger than the Temple FBS win IMO.

[Pard4Life]

Why don't you just let things take its course? Until they lose I think they should be left in. Kind of the champion until they lose. They have nowhere to hide over the next 3 weeks. If they suck they'll lose next week. Princeton has the respect of PL fans in general.

Lehigh's win on Saturday was their 15th straight regular season road win. I don't care who you are, that's damn impressive...

Well, that's going to happen soon enough. You are staring at three in a row. Like c2 said, borrowed time. It caught up to the Pards last year, after going 3-0.

And, don't mention Princeton to citdog... you know, the whole band incident.

[ElCid]

I think Fordam is just about right. I had them at 11 VS. AGS 12.

The one that still surprises me is McNeese at 13. Yeah, they got punished a little for their bad victory against a Div II, but they were too high to begin with. I still have them in, but barely.

Another one that is interesting is that when Villanova got beat by Fordam everyone thought "Wow, Villanova must be bad." They have a week off and Fordam goes and beats Temple, but VIllanova gets further punished a few spots. Now some of that drop is other schools getting traction and jumping over Nova rather than them dropping, but I think they are still better than 25.

Finally, and obviously, 20-30 is always going to be a log jam. I find it hilarious that people argue about who the 20-25 teams are. AND, there are obviously too many homers trying to get their mediocre team in.

[SumItUp]

Can I see a voter breakdown that shows the teams/conferences that the voters follow?

[citdog]

And, don't mention Princeton to citdog... you know, the whole band incident.


What? I like those guys now! See why at 1:25




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUfXFbekqLY

[ursus arctos horribilis]

I'm new to the ranking thing, but I try to follow all of FCS the best I can (it's tough with two kids under 4, a lot of games to look at) but I'd like to someday have a vote so I decided after the games two days ago to start putting together my own top 25 list, and see how it compares to you guys, aka "the pro's". Here's my list...



1 North Dakota State


2 Eastern Washington


3 Towson


4 Montana St.


5 Sam Houston State


6 Northern Iowa


7 Eastern Illinois


8 Montana


9 Fordham


10 South Dakota State


11 Wofford


12 Stony Brook


13 McNeese State


14 James Madison


15 Central Arkansas


16 Youngstown State


17 Cal Poly


18 New Hampshire


19 Villanova


20 Coastal Carolina


21 Northern Arizona


22 Bethune Cookman


23 Illinois State


24 Tennessee Martin


25 Samford



Comparing the two, about the only glaring differences are that perhaps I didn't drop Illinois St. enough for the drilling they took, and Youngstown State, I was surprised they dropped so much. I probably placed Coastal Carolina to low as well.

I don't think I did to shabby overall though.

That's a pretty darn decent job. Get yourself to 100 posts and get in the voting block.

[chattownmocs]

Actually UT-M is underrated in my view. I noted in another discussion that my browser crashed before I could submit my ballot and I had to reconstitute my poll from memory as best I could. That said, Id still have ranked UT-M ahead of UTC even if I had ranked the Mocs at all, which I didn't because as I said, they have zero quality wins at this point in the season.

This isn't a college basketball NCAA tournament seeding discussion. Ranking teams based on perceived quality wins alone at this point is a pretty dumb way of doing things.

[ElCid]

I had Eastern Washington #1 last week and don't penalize teams for a loss to FBS schools.

Generally I do not, but depending on the FBS team, I will use loses to FBS to break ties. I guess that is not penalizes them as much as it is rewarding some. I hate to say, it but I think Delware's loss to Navy 51-7 is worse than W&M 24-17 loss to WVa. I hated to use that example with "you" but it illustrates, at least at this point in the season, why I might give W&M a vote vs. Delaware.

Now for teams that get bown out, I have not penalized Wofford for their utter failure at Baylor 69-3 or UTM's 63-14 embarrassment at Boise St. They have both done very well besides these particularly lopsided games.

[URMite]

Lehigh struggles against hot garbage in back to back weeks, Richmond loses at home to Gardner-Webb, Coastal Carolina gets catapulted to your top ten for a win over unranked Eastern Kentucky, Samford beats a winless FAMU team by a touchdown and is in your top 20... But Bethune-Cookman drops a FBS team by 21 and nothing... Go ahead, I'll wait.

Richmond @ GWU but point taken.

[msupokes1]

The one that still surprises me is McNeese at 13. Yeah, they got punished a little for their bad victory against a Div II, but they were too high to begin with. I still have them in, but barely.

To say they are barely in is ridiculous and goes to show that most, including myself, do not know much about the other teams, outside of their conference. McNeese beat BCS member USF by 32 points, beat UAPB by 44 points. They struggle against a D2. They are 3-0. Normally I would be worried struggling against a D2 school but that score was not because of sloppy play by McNeese. That team had a ton of FBS transfers, including a couple from the SEC. They had a few players that had started at the SEC school they played for. Most voters don't have the time to look into that. They see a close game against a D2 and assume that it should be a blow out. The top D2 is a lot closer to the top of the FCS than many want to give them credit for. That's why you see some teams (NDSU, Central Arkansas) jump from D2 up to FCS and compete immediately.

[chattownmocs]

ChattownMocs - Other than UTC support, why would you believe that UTC should be higher than 3-0 teams, including FBS wins and power FCS schools?

26 - MT St at 16? take that drop is due to QB injury?

BJ - What's the thought behind a 1-2 Cal Poly higher than Montana - 2-0?

In my poll which I'll post separately, I have Montana/SDSU about the same. However, SDSU is 3-0, and there has been NO reason to change their position up or down. Next two games for the Jacks will be interesting if stay in top 10. SDSU wins both games, there is strong reason to consider them for #1.

Its a top 25 poll after week 3. Its not an NCAA basketball seeding discussion.

[superman7515]

Generally I do not, but depending on the FBS team, I will use loses to FBS to break ties. I guess that is not penalizes them as much as it is rewarding some. I hate to say, it but I think Delware's loss to Navy 51-7 is worse than W&M 24-17 loss to WVa. I hated to use that example with "you" but it illustrates, at least at this point in the season, why I might give W&M a vote vs. Delaware.

Now for teams that get bown out, I have not penalized Wofford for their utter failure at Baylor 69-3 or UTM's 63-14 embarrassment at Boise St. They have both done very well besides these particularly lopsided games.

Delaware is not a good team. They have not gotten a vote from me this year, nor should they be getting a vote from anyone else at this point.

[BlueHenSinfonian]

Delaware is not a good team. They have not gotten a vote from me this year, nor should they be getting a vote from anyone else at this point.

I dropped us off this week because of the Navy debacle, but I'm not quite so pessimistic as to say this isn't a good team. We have a top ten FCS offense, but so far an unranked pass defense. We'll see how that all ends up playing out by the end of the season, but I'm confident we'll be in the playoffs this year.

Navy is also very, very, good this year. Notre Dame is the only game on the rest of their schedule that they might not be the favorites in, and that's only because the game is at Notre Dame.

[BisonBacker]

I think a strong case can be made for putting Montana above SDSU at this point.xtwocentsx
I had them right in front of SDSU

[BisonBacker]

It isn't a BSC voter and also to any UM guys claiming MVFC homerism about SDSU would be incorrect as well. It's always the easy thing to go with I guess but I've put the conference stats and the claims don't hold.

On my own ballot the two teams are neck & neck. SDSU's resume is slightly better than UM's at this point. I don't give a rat's ass about the transitional scores arguments. "We beat them by more" doesn't mean a damn thing.

Now if you say our defense pinned UND down better and our offense is not as one dimensional as SDSU's is then we'd have something.

Winner Winner Chicken Dinner. This was and will again be SDSU's downfall.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Can I see a voter breakdown that shows the teams/conferences that the voters follow?

I can show ya the conference voting blocks but that's as far as I'm gonna go with detail.



Missouri Valley Football Conference
19


Colonial Athletic Association
18


Big Sky Conference
14


Patriot League
7


Southern Conference
5


Southland Conference
5


Big South Conference
3


Mid-Eastern Athletic conference
3


Ohio Valley Conference
2


Independent
1


Ivy League
1


Southwestern Athletic Conference
1


Northeast Conference
0


Pioneer Football Conference
0

[superman7515]

I dropped us off this week because of the Navy debacle, but I'm not quite so pessimistic as to say this isn't a good team. We have a top ten FCS offense, but so far an unranked pass defense. We'll see how that all ends up playing out by the end of the season, but I'm confident we'll be in the playoffs this year.

Navy is also very, very, good this year. Notre Dame is the only game on the rest of their schedule that they might not be the favorites in, and that's only because the game is at Notre Dame.

Well, not trying to be pessimistic so perhaps the "aren't a good team" was a bit much, but they started similiarly hot against similiarly bad competition last year only to fall off dramatically once CAA play began. They struggled early against Jacksonville before the scholarship depth caught up to them and allowed Delaware to break the score open (isn't that what everyone says when FBS teams win a close one, the FBS team isn't better, the schollie difference just finally caught up to them?), they beat Delaware State but looked sloppy and uninspired in the second half and Towson showed what a good team looks like against the Hornets, and then got bent over a barrel with no spit, no lube, just cold rolled steel against the Midshipmen.

Nothing they did last year warrants them to start in the Top 25, and nothing they have done this year warrants them working their way up.

[SumItUp]

Thanks for the breakdown Ursus!

[dystopiamembrane]

I can show ya the conference voting blocks but that's as far as I'm gonna go with detail.



Missouri Valley Football Conference
19


Colonial Athletic Association
18


Big Sky Conference
14


Patriot League
7


Southern Conference
5


Southland Conference
5


Big South Conference
3


Mid-Eastern Athletic conference
3


Ohio Valley Conference
2


Independent
1


Ivy League
1


Southwestern Athletic Conference
1


Northeast Conference
0


Pioneer Football Conference
0



Interesting to see the lack of representation for the SoCon and Solnd, given the amount of support they receive on this forum.
Also, this list shows a reason for the pro-CAA bias in the poll.

[RabidRabbit]

Rabid thoughts -

1: North Dakota State Bison
2: Northern Iowa Panthers
3: Towson Tigers
4: Eastern Washington Eagles
5: Eastern Illinois Panthers
6: Montana State Bobcats
7: Montana Grizzlies
8: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
9: Stony Brook Seawolves
10: McNeese State Cowboys
11: James Madison Dukes
12: Sam Houston State Bearkats
13: Samford Bulldogs
14: Wofford Terriers
15: Fordham Rams
16: New Hampshire Wildcats
17: Bethune-Cookman Wildcats
18: Southern Utah Thunderbirds
19: William & Mary Tribe
20: Gardner-Webb Runnin' Bulldogs
21: Coastal Carolina Chanticleers
22: Central Arkansas Bears
23: Tennessee-Martin Skyhawks
24: Youngstown State Penguins
25: Cal Poly Mustangs

[BlueHenSinfonian]

Interesting to see the lack of representation for the SoCon and Solnd, given the amount of support they receive on this forum.

There are fewer SoCon fans around than there used to be. App State and GaSou leaving took quite a few with them.

[Nickels]

Looks solid. Nice job by the voters this week. xthumbsupx

[knucklehead]

Wow, that breakdown is VERY Top Heavy. Interesting.

[ElCid]

To say they are barely in is ridiculous and goes to show that most, including myself, do not know much about the other teams, outside of their conference. McNeese beat BCS member USF by 32 points, beat UAPB by 44 points. They struggle against a D2. They are 3-0. Normally I would be worried struggling against a D2 school but that score was not because of sloppy play by McNeese. That team had a ton of FBS transfers, including a couple from the SEC. They had a few players that had started at the SEC school they played for. Most voters don't have the time to look into that. They see a close game against a D2 and assume that it should be a blow out. The top D2 is a lot closer to the top of the FCS than many want to give them credit for. That's why you see some teams (NDSU, Central Arkansas) jump from D2 up to FCS and compete immediately.

Ok, maybe I was a little harsh and I will admit I do not know a lot about your Conference, but i do know some. I keep track of all the conferences. You guys have a good history of winning but I am looking at it as dispassionately as possible. Yes USF is technically a BSC team, but that is a little misleading. They are the dregs of a bad BCS has-been. But an FBS win is an FBS win and you should be ranked. USF also got beat by Florida Atlantic. I was super impressed until I really saw how bad USF is, now I am just impressed. As for UAPB, I don't get the point. You did what you were expected to do against a bad SWAC team. No kudos there. I do look up the Div II, III and NAIA teams occasionally. I know about W Alabama, they are good, but we are talking about a ranked FCS team. I do not care how good W Alabama was this past week, a ranked FCS team should not be making a score to win the game against a Div II opponent with 46 seconds remaining. I don't think Oregon St should be still be ranked just because EWU is a really good team. That is an extreme example but the concept is similar.

I had you in my top 20 (19) after the USF and ARK PB games, but you dropped to my 24 after struggling this week. You dropped 3 in the AGS poll. That was, however, a combination of other teams jumping over you also, rather than you falling the whole way. If you would have won like you should have, I would say 15-18 right now. You win two weeks from now, and it will be top 10. You better win next week.

[Grizalltheway]

I had them right in front of SDSU
Works for me.xthumbsupx

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Interesting to see the lack of representation for the SoCon and Solnd, given the amount of support they receive on this forum.
Also, this list shows a reason for the pro-CAA bias in the poll.

If you take the shortcut and just make that assumption that is fine but I've broken those down for others in the past making such claims about the CAA voting block and have shown that it is absolutely the opposite of what you might think.

When you can show a CAA team that is not deserving of it's ranking I'll bet I can show you that it is not there due to CAA voters. I ain't taking the time to do it now and you are all free to think whatever you want to about biases and so forth. It's the reason I do not normally even put this data because it automatically gets that reaction/excuse making.

It is up to other voting blocks to do more if they feel under represented.

[ElCid]

I dropped us off this week because of the Navy debacle, but I'm not quite so pessimistic as to say this isn't a good team. We have a top ten FCS offense, but so far an unranked pass defense. We'll see how that all ends up playing out by the end of the season, but I'm confident we'll be in the playoffs this year.

Navy is also very, very, good this year. Notre Dame is the only game on the rest of their schedule that they might not be the favorites in, and that's only because the game is at Notre Dame.

Yeah, us too. I am dreading ODU this week.

Also, I would not count out Delaware yet. They have been hovering just outside of 25 for me along with W&M for a while.

[UNH Fanboi]

Interesting to see the lack of representation for the SoCon and Solnd, given the amount of support they receive on this forum.
Also, this list shows a reason for the pro-CAA bias in the poll.

If App and GSU were eligible, the SoCon would have a lot more voters.

[Fordham]

Right off the top of my head I'd say Coastal Carolina shouldn't be behind them.

Btw, Coach Joe Moglia is a Fordham grad! Rooting for CC since he joined.

The rankings will take care of themselves and its so ridiculously early that it's tough to get riled up about anything related to where we are right now. Obviously this whole stretch of games to start the season has been so fun that there's nothing to this point that could lessen that. I'll guarantee that we'll have some battles in front of us as teams get up to play us and I'm sure we'll disappoint some in here in some games that AGS posters think should be a cakewalk. Nonetheless, hopefully we can get things done the rest of the way since it sure would be fun to see how we stack up against the best in FCS in the playoffs.

If it helps you feel better about where we are ranked in this AGS poll, though, consider that our offense put up 520 yards on Temple and we won the Time of Poss battle 34:43 to 25:17. Long-short, we didn't just score on trick plays but pretty much moved the ball at will. Of course, if you haven't seen it yet, check out the last play again and I'll admit there's a little bit of luck there ;) ... but, man, is it a heck of an ending (excuse the language on the attached, I haven't been able to find a good clip elsewhere): http://deadspin.com/football-powerhouse-wins-with-thrilling-hail-mary-1315488217 (the writer is obviously a Fordham grad given the 'powerhouse' reference and his knowledge of our post-victory ringing-of-the-bell).

Go Rams! and 'well done' to those that voted. The poll looks great imo.

[ElCid]

I can show ya the conference voting blocks but that's as far as I'm gonna go with detail.



Missouri Valley Football Conference

19



Colonial Athletic Association

18



Big Sky Conference

14



Patriot League

7



Southern Conference

5



Southland Conference

5



Big South Conference

3



Mid-Eastern Athletic conference

3



Ohio Valley Conference

2



Independent

1



Ivy League

1



Southwestern Athletic Conference

1



Northeast Conference




Pioneer Football Conference






This top heavy representation surprised me. It does, however, answer a lot of questions I had about the poll. I think alot of App St and Ga So fans must have dropped and SOCON's share accordingly.

It still is the best poll out there though.

[dystopiamembrane]

If you take the shortcut and just make that assumption that is fine but I've broken those down for others in the past making such claims about the CAA voting block and have shown that it is absolutely the opposite of what you might think.

When you can show a CAA team that is not deserving of it's ranking I'll bet I can show you that it is not there due to CAA voters. I ain't taking the time to do it now and you are all free to think whatever you want to about biases and so forth. It's the reason I do not normally even put this data because it automatically gets that reaction/excuse making.

It is up to other voting blocks to do more if they feel under represented.
I was not implying voting irregularities, rather an understanding of why there is a wholesale disbelief that a conference, say the Southland, might be better than the CAA this year.

[SpeedkingATL]

I can show ya the conference voting blocks but that's as far as I'm gonna go with detail.



Missouri Valley Football Conference

19



Colonial Athletic Association

18



Big Sky Conference

14



Patriot League

7



Southern Conference

5



Southland Conference

5



Big South Conference

3



Mid-Eastern Athletic conference

3



Ohio Valley Conference

2



Independent

1



Ivy League

1



Southwestern Athletic Conference

1



Northeast Conference




Pioneer Football Conference





Based on the voting blocks I think it shows that most voters do a pretty good job in controlling their bias. I still think this is the best poll for FCS and will continue to be. Well done voters!

[bjtheflamesfan]

This isn't a college basketball NCAA tournament seeding discussion. Ranking teams based on perceived quality wins alone at this point is a pretty dumb way of doing things.

Its not just quality wins alone, its quality wins plus the success or lack thereof (depending on the team) of the teams that are either in the top 25 or not. When looking at picking the top 25 teams in the country (in my view), not every 2-1 is created equal. If we rated teams purely on record, UTC would be in a very large group that includes (thanks to ESPN.com for having this information available) Alcorn State, Eastern Washington, Montana State, Gardner-Webb, UNC-Charlotte, Incarnate Word, Delaware, JMU, William and Mary, Sam Houston State, Northwestern State, Butler and Dayton among others. To better distinguish the Eastern Washingtons from the Alcorn States and the UTCs, One has to look at the quality of their opponent (hence the good win/bad loss spreadsheet that I believe superman put together). While UTC is 2-1, which is a good thing, their wins are over Georgia State (a bad FBS team) and Austin Peay (a bad FCS team from the OVC). Eastern Illinois, on the other hand, is 3-0, has a dominating FBS win and has FCS wins over Illinois State (who was either ranked or just on the outside after week 2 I forget) and a win over Southern Illinois, both from a very quality conference in the MVFC. The voters (myself included) have to consider every aspect of a team's record, including quality of opponent and margin of victory/defeat and the good win/bad loss factor, when making ballots out from week to week

[msupokes1]

Ok, maybe I was a little harsh and I will admit I do not know a lot about your Conference, but i do know some. I keep track of all the conferences. You guys have a good history of winning but I am looking at it as dispassionately as possible. Yes USF is technically a BSC team, but that is a little misleading. They are the dregs of a bad BCS has-been. But an FBS win is an FBS win and you should be ranked. USF also got beat by Florida Atlantic. I was super impressed until I really saw how bad USF is, now I am just impressed. As for UAPB, I don't get the point. You did what you were expected to do against a bad SWAC team. No kudos there. I do look up the Div II, III and NAIA teams occasionally. I know about W Alabama, they are good, but we are talking about a ranked FCS team. I do not care how good W Alabama was this past week, a ranked FCS team should not be making a score to win the game against a Div II opponent with 46 seconds remaining. I don't think Oregon St should be still be ranked just because EWU is a really good team. That is an extreme example but the concept is similar.

I had you in my top 20 (19) after the USF and ARK PB games, but you dropped to my 24 after struggling this week. You dropped 3 in the AGS poll. That was, however, a combination of other teams jumping over you also, rather than you falling the whole way. If you would have won like you should have, I would say 15-18 right now. You win two weeks from now, and it will be top 10. You better win next week.

I agree with the 15-18 mark. I have no complains there. There was a study done by someone on this site a few years back that looked at playoff caliber FCS teams vs Playoff Caliber D2 teams over a 10 year period. I do not have the numbers in front of me but if I recall correctly the FCS was 8-4 in those games and the average margin of victory for the FCS was somewhere around 10 points. The point being that there are some really good teams at the top of D2 and I personally feel like McNeese got one of those Saturday night. The good thing about it is time will tell. I will say this, the one thing that McNeese excels at is speed. Everywhere we play that is what is pointed out by opposing coaches. The team we played Saturday night had crazy speed. They matched our speed at every position and exceeded it in some.

[ElCid]

Based on the voting blocks I think it shows that most voters do a pretty good job in controlling their bias. I still think this is the best poll for FCS and will continue to be. Well done voters!

I agree about the bias overall. It appears to not be a big problem at all. AGS'ers should be proud. But when it comes to close calls, I can see that a bias, created of pure numbers will overwhelmly sway what is a really a toss up. I think NAU, Maine, and Youngstown are good examples. They are all good teams, but they are bubble teams right now (20-30). One wrong step and wham-they are gone. I would not criticize anyone for voting for them. I voted for two of them. But are they better than 25-30? A valid argument coould be made that 20-30 are all very close. Familiarity must account for some bias in voting and this is where the pure numbers come into account.


I would hope that folks take a close look at every top half team in other conferences and do a double take just to make sure they are not unconsciously voting for familiarity. I know most probably do and thanks to Supe's products, that makes it easier.

[BisonBacker]

Btw, Coach Joe Moglia is a Fordham grad! Rooting for CC since he joined.

The rankings will take care of themselves and its so ridiculously early that it's tough to get riled up about anything related to where we are right now. Obviously this whole stretch of games to start the season has been so fun that there's nothing to this point that could lessen that. I'll guarantee that we'll have some battles in front of us as teams get up to play us and I'm sure we'll disappoint some in here in some games that AGS posters think should be a cakewalk. Nonetheless, hopefully we can get things done the rest of the way since it sure would be fun to see how we stack up against the best in FCS in the playoffs.

If it helps you feel better about where we are ranked in this AGS poll, though, consider that our offense put up 520 yards on Temple and we won the Time of Poss battle 34:43 to 25:17. Long-short, we didn't just score on trick plays but pretty much moved the ball at will. Of course, if you haven't seen it yet, check out the last play again and I'll admit there's a little bit of luck there ;) ... but, man, is it a heck of an ending (excuse the language on the attached, I haven't been able to find a good clip elsewhere): http://deadspin.com/football-powerhouse-wins-with-thrilling-hail-mary-1315488217 (the writer is obviously a Fordham grad given the 'powerhouse' reference and his knowledge of our post-victory ringing-of-the-bell).

Go Rams! and 'well done' to those that voted. The poll looks great imo.

I'm not riled at all and I maybe wrong in that you guys deserve that high ranking. I think what you have done so far is great. I was honestly just surprised you guys are as high as you are in the rankings. That's all I was saying. You are spot on in that things will all work themselves out as the season plays out. Best of luck to you guys.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

I was not implying voting irregularities, rather an understanding of why there is a wholesale disbelief that a conference, say the Southland, might be better than the CAA this year.

I wasn't clear either it appears. When I've taken those conference groups and ran them as a groups (on their own) and compared them to the other groups as a whole without those (say CAA) votes in that group had the same teams from their own conference ranked lower than the rest of the groups did. That is the point I was trying to get across.

It was really just the opposite of what you'd expect. The voters from other conferences see your conference teams as better than your own conference member voters do when it comes to the top 4 or 5 conferences.

[ElCid]

I agree with the 15-18 mark. I have no complains there. There was a study done by someone on this site a few years back that looked at playoff caliber FCS teams vs Playoff Caliber D2 teams over a 10 year period. I do not have the numbers in front of me but if I recall correctly the FCS was 8-4 in those games and the average margin of victory for the FCS was somewhere around 10 points. The point being that there are some really good teams at the top of D2 and I personally feel like McNeese got one of those Saturday night. The good thing about it is time will tell. I will say this, the one thing that McNeese excels at is speed. Everywhere we play that is what is pointed out by opposing coaches. The team we played Saturday night had crazy speed. They matched our speed at every position and exceeded it in some.

I know but still.... I will say that in 1990, ElCid went to the playoffs at 7-4. The year we beat USC. In 1991, we lost to some pesky little Div II school we hadn't lost to since Eisenhower was President. Even with the loss we were still 7-4 in 1991, we did not go. The next year we went again at 11-1 and ranked number 1 after beating Arkansas and Army. Now we lost that Div II game and you did not, but it impacts a whole lotta folk's impression still, right or wrong.

Oh and that little pesky Div II school that nobody had heard of. It was like Wofford or something..xrolleyesx...Ayers had our number then also. They were a Div II playoff team. Nuf dirty laundry.xlolx

[Tribal]

Still no love for W&M but JMU is a top team with a loss to Akron and nearly lost to St. FARKIN Francis?

[Twentysix]

Still no love for W&M but JMU is a top team with a loss to Akron and nearly lost to St. FARKIN Francis?

I love you billy. I even ranked you in the top 15. Now don't start sucking **** and making me look bad. Win! Win and make me look like a prophet who puts toghether his FCS poll while doing liberal amounts of peyote.

[Twentysix]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f2/Arte_Huichol_A.JPG/750px-Arte_Huichol_A.JPG

I stare into its eyes, and it whispers team names to me.

[msupokes1]

I know but still.... I will say that in 1990, ElCid went to the playoffs at 7-4. The year we beat USC. In 1991, we lost to some pesky little Div II school we hadn't lost to since Eisenhower was President. Even with the loss we were still 7-4 in 1991, we did not go. The next year we went again at 11-1 and ranked number 1 after beating Arkansas and Army. Now we lost that Div II game and you did not, but it impacts a whole lotta folk's impression still, right or wrong.

Oh and that little pesky Div II school that nobody had heard of. It was like Wofford or something..xrolleyesx...Ayers had our number then also. They were a Div II playoff team. Nuf dirty laundry.xlolx

2006 Montana St. beat Colorado or Colorado St. in week 1 then turned around and lost by like 10+ points to Chadron St. If I am not mistaken, Montana St won a first round playoff game that year and lost in the second round. Chadron St. also lost in the 2nd round of the D2 playoffs.

[ElCid]

2006 Montana St. beat Colorado or Colorado St. in week 1 then turned around and lost by like 10+ points to Chadron St. If I am not mistaken, Montana St won a first round playoff game that year and lost in the second round. Chadron St. also lost in the 2nd round of the D2 playoffs.

I remember that now that you mention it. I had forgotten. I guess my point is that you can never let up even for an "apparent" cupcake. A few FBS realize that also, a little too late this year. I guess I just think teams should not get a pass for not putting it all in on game day. I am not sure I am ready to concede that a Div II should be in a game in the second half to a ranked team. Does not mean that they are not as good on AGS. I just expect better of FCS.

[msupokes1]

I remember that now that you mention it. I had forgotten. I guess my point is that you can never let up even for an "apparent" cupcake. A few FBS realize that also, a little too late this year. I guess I just think teams should not get a pass for not putting it all in on game day. I am not sure I am ready to concede that a Div II should be in a game in the second half to a ranked team. Does not mean that they are not as good on AGS. I just expect better of FCS.

I will agree to disagree. Before this past Saturday, I would wholeheartedly agree with you. Had this not happened to McNeese I would probably still agree with you. I will say one thing I know for certain though, that team we In the end the team we played Saturday was by far better than the first 2 opponents we played. In the end you may be right McNeese might not be a top 25 team but that D2 team came in and impressed me. I thought McNeese played a pretty good game. To me the game said more about them then it did about McNeese. I believe they play Thursday night on CBS Sports. I planning on watching to see if they look as good as they did Saturday night.

[Engineer86]

there isn't ONE TEAM in our top 25 that le high could stay within 21 points of. you le high homers are the WORST.

You are a joke, there are more non-Lehigh posters ranking Lehigh than Lehigh posters. You poor little troll. It is a shame.xbawlingx

[citdog]

You are a joke, there are more non-Lehigh posters ranking Lehigh than Lehigh posters. You poor little troll. It is a shame.xbawlingx


the le high football schedule is the REAL joke.

[HensRock]

I'm not understanding the love affair for Samford.
Can someone please explain?

[Catbooster]

2006 Montana St. beat Colorado or Colorado St. in week 1 then turned around and lost by like 10+ points to Chadron St. If I am not mistaken, Montana St won a first round playoff game that year and lost in the second round. Chadron St. also lost in the 2nd round of the D2 playoffs.

It was Colorado. Danny Woodhead was playing for Chadron State and they embarrassed us the next week. MSU beat Furman at home in the playoffs.

[HensRock]

Still no love for W&M but JMU is a top team with a loss to Akron and nearly lost to St. FARKIN Francis?

My poll vote contained W&M and Not JMU.

[citdog]

I'm not understanding the love affair for Samford.
Can someone please explain?

10 point loss to Arkansas who whipped a Louisiana school from the 'promised land' of the sun bletch conference by 40 the week before.

[Engineer86]

If you take the shortcut and just make that assumption that is fine but I've broken those down for others in the past making such claims about the CAA voting block and have shown that it is absolutely the opposite of what you might think.

When you can show a CAA team that is not deserving of it's ranking I'll bet I can show you that it is not there due to CAA voters. I ain't taking the time to do it now and you are all free to think whatever you want to about biases and so forth. It's the reason I do not normally even put this data because it automatically gets that reaction/excuse making.

It is up to other voting blocks to do more if they feel under represented.

Can you address Citdog's tiresome claims of who is ranking Lehigh? I doubt 7 PL including several pard backers are through LU that many votes. Maybe then he will relax and enjoy the wonderful season The Citadel is having?

[Pard4Life]

Can you address Citdog's tiresome claims of who is ranking Lehigh? I doubt 7 PL including several pard backers are through LU that many votes. Maybe then he will relax and enjoy the wonderful season The Citadel is having?

I'm not xthumbsupx

[NoDak 4 Ever]

that's rich. If that's the case you guys really need to stfu about your past FBS wins because every last one of them was absolutely terrible.

What the hell would you know about FBS wins?

[Skyhawk71]

This poll, mostly resembles reality, I'm having a serious problem with the TSN and Coaches Polls-

[Engineer86]

I'm not xthumbsupx

Even if all 7 voted LU number 1 you can't get to 184 and there are at least 2 that don't rank them at all. Give it a rest little puppy.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Can you address Citdog's tiresome claims of who is ranking Lehigh? I doubt 7 PL including several pard backers are through LU that many votes. Maybe then he will relax and enjoy the wonderful season The Citadel is having?

Here it is broken down.

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/showthread.php?140401-The-AGS-Poll-broken-down-by-conference-wk-3&p=2008593#post2008593

[UIWWildthing]

Towson #2? Holy....
Yes I know we are a good team, but still it feels weird to SAY those words.

[citdog]

Towson #2? Holy....
Yes I know we are a good team, but still it feels weird to SAY those words.


thanks to ANDY I've been saying one word in particular in a pretty weird way.

[clenz]

thanks to ANDY I've been saying one word in particular in a pretty weird way.

Moar...?

[FargoBison]

Who are the MVFC homers that still have SDSU ahead of us?

We just played the same team a week apart, and the results weren't even close.

They are close and I don't care about the comparative score index. I've moved Montana way up in my poll as the season has moved along...I've barely moved SDSU at all in any direction. I don't really want to move a team back that has given me no reason to doubt them.

[McNeese72]

Disclaimer: I don't do the polls and right now I don't give a ***** where McNeese is in them.

As far as the University of West Alabama, that was the best damned Div 2 team that I have ever seen in person. I thought we had great team speed but I think they were faster than we were overall. And they had that little slippery innovative Mini-Manziel at quarterback that drove our defense crazy.

It is a good thing that we were playing well on offense because our defense had trouble with them.

I think UWA could beat a majority of the teams in the FCS. Yes, they are that good. I think we need to talk to our assistant A.D. doing the scheduling now. When you are looking for a cupcake Div II team, you don't schedule a playoff caliber Div II team.

Right now our attention is on getting ready for Weber St. The polls will take care of themselves.

Below, Mini-Manziel from Doc'sShots.com (http://www.docsshots.com/).

http://www.docsshots.com/img/s3/v41/p1921303156-4.jpg

Doc

[superman7515]

And they had that little slippery innovative Mini-Manciel at quarterback that drove our defense crazy.

McNeese was beaten by a D2 team with a miniature Mike Manciel, the 6'6" forward from Detroit that led Central Michigan into the NCAA tournament in 2003, playing quarterback? I don't think that helps your case. xlolx

[WrenFGun]

My poll:

1: North Dakota State Bison
2: Eastern Washington Eagles
3: Towson Tigers
4: Sam Houston State Bearkats
5: Northern Iowa Panthers
6: Eastern Illinois Panthers
7: Montana Grizzlies
8: Fordham Rams
9: Maine Black Bears
10: Stony Brook Seawolves
11: New Hampshire Wildcats
12: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
13: Wofford Terriers
14: Samford Bulldogs
15: Tennessee-Martin Skyhawks
16: Bethune-Cookman Wildcats
17: Montana State Bobcats
18: McNeese State Cowboys
19: Coastal Carolina Chanticleers
20: Cal Poly Mustangs
21: James Madison Dukes
22: Gardner-Webb Runnin' Bulldogs
23: William & Mary Tribe
24: Northern Arizona Lumberjacks
25: Chattanooga Mocs

[andy7171]

thanks to ANDY I've been saying one word in particular in a pretty weird way.
And what would that one word be, the citdog?

[gotts]

First time posting a poll, be gentle!

1: North Dakota State Bison
2: Towson Tigers
3: Sam Houston State Bearkats
4: Northern Iowa Panthers
5: Eastern Washington Eagles
6: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
7: Eastern Illinois Panthers
8: Montana State Bobcats
9: Montana Grizzlies
10: Wofford Terriers
11: Central Arkansas Bears
12: Maine Black Bears
13: Fordham Rams
14: Cal Poly Mustangs
15: New Hampshire Wildcats
16: James Madison Dukes
17: Coastal Carolina Chanticleers
18: McNeese State Cowboys
19: Bethune-Cookman Wildcats
20: Richmond Spiders
21: Stony Brook Seawolves
22: Northern Arizona Lumberjacks
23: Samford Bulldogs
24: Tennessee-Martin Skyhawks
25: Chattanooga Mocs

Cal Poly probably a little high, Stony Brook probably a little low, W&M right on the doorstep. It's just not easy at this point!

[HensRock]

McNeese was beaten by a D2 team with a miniature Mike Manciel, the 6'6" forward from Detroit that led Central Michigan into the NCAA tournament in 2003, playing quarterback? I don't think that helps your case. xlolx

That was kind of you not to mention that he only has one leg!
Man, McNeese is in trouble!

[Fear the Bird]

1) North Dakota State Bison
2) Eastern Washington Eagles
3) Towson Tigers
4) Sam Houston State Bearkats
5) Montana State Bobcats
6) Northern Iowa Panthers
7) South Dakota State Jackrabbits
8) Eastern Illinois Panthers
9) Montana Grizzlies
10) McNeese State Cowboys
11) Fordham Rams
12) Wofford Terriers
13) New Hampshire Wildcats
14) Coastal Carolina Chanticleers
15) Tennessee-Martin Skyhawks
16) Central Arkansas Bears
17) Bethune-Cookman Wildcats
18) James Madison Dukes
19) Stony Brook Seawolves
20) Youngstown State Penguins
21) Cal Poly Mustangs
22) Maine Black Bears
23) William & Mary Tribe
24) Northern Arizona Lumberjacks
25) North Carolina A&T Aggies

Most Significant Win: Fordham Rams
Most Significant Loss: Richmond Spiders

[McNeese72]

McNeese was beaten by a D2 team with a miniature Mike Manciel, the 6'6" forward from Detroit that led Central Michigan into the NCAA tournament in 2003, playing quarterback? I don't think that helps your case. xlolx

Yeah, jump on the typo. I meant Mini-Manziel and we weren't beaten. That UWA team was damned good and had as much if not more team speed than we did. They would beat a lot of FCS teams if they played them.

Doc

[MTfan4life]

1: North Dakota State Bison
2: Eastern Washington Eagles
3: Sam Houston State Bearkats
4: Montana State Bobcats
5: Towson Tigers
6: Northern Iowa Panthers
7: Montana Grizzlies
8: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
9: Eastern Illinois Panthers
10: Fordham Rams
11: McNeese State Cowboys
12: New Hampshire Wildcats
13: Cal Poly Mustangs
14: Samford Bulldogs
15: Tennessee-Martin Skyhawks
16: Wofford Terriers
17: Central Arkansas Bears
18: Delaware Fightin' Blue Hens
19: Coastal Carolina Chanticleers
20: Villanova Wildcats
21: Northern Arizona Lumberjacks
22: William & Mary Tribe
23: Liberty Flames
24: Bethune-Cookman Wildcats
25: Youngstown State Penguins

[citdog]

And what would that one word be, the citdog?

TOE SON instead of TOW SON.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

TOE SON instead of TOW SON.

Tow and toe sound the same so not exactly a good example. What he meant was Toe vs. Tao..

[ccd494]

Why don't you just let things take its course? Until they lose I think they should be left in. Kind of the champion until they lose. They have nowhere to hide over the next 3 weeks. If they suck they'll lose next week. Princeton has the respect of PL fans in general.

Lehigh's win on Saturday was their 15th straight regular season road win. I don't care who you are, that's damn impressive...

Champion of what? The Lehigh Valley?

[citdog]

Champion of what? The Lehigh Valley?


it's le high


and reps to you

[crusader11]

it's le high


and reps to you

When the teams of the Patriot League are all full-scholarship, will you still hold this prejudice? Just wondering.

[citdog]

When the teams of the Patriot League are all full-scholarship, will you still hold this prejudice? Just wondering.


I have always been a get to 63 or GET OUT kind of a fella. So when the patsy league gets there and starts playing SOMEBODY.........ANYBODY besides themselves, the Ivy, and the Pioneer and NEC then yeah.....

[crusader11]

So, it's okay for a team like Western Carolina or half of the MEAC / SWAC to be gawd awful year after year just because they are scholarship programs?

Lest you forget that Lehigh won games in the playoffs consecutive years over Northern Iowa and Towson.

Funny thing is, these programs you disparage probably could beat The Citadel this year.

[citdog]

So, it's okay for a team like Western Carolina or half of the MEAC / SWAC to be gawd awful year after year just because they are scholarship programs?

Lest you forget that Lehigh won games in the playoffs consecutive years over Northern Iowa and Towson.

Funny thing is, these programs you disparage probably could beat The Citadel this year.


WCU would beat le high by 4td's. The Citadel would be playing the 2nd team in the 3rd quarter with le high's defense. You are DELUSIONAL if you think the patsy is ANYWHERE CLOSE TO THE POWER CONFERENCES IN THIS SUBDIVISION.

[crusader11]

Over the past 15 years, Lehigh, Lafayette, and Colgate have all been better than The Citadel.

Even your pals from The Citadel and the Southern Conference would agree with that statement.

I am not comparing Patriot League teams to the entire Southern Conference, just one program.

Point is, scholarships do not automatically equate with a higher-level of play. There are plenty of bad scholarships programs that routinely lose to Ivy / Patriot schools.

[crusader11]

Why do I feed the troll?

[clenz]

The UNI team in 2010 was probably the worst UNI team to take the field on over a decade. The MVFC was just that bad that year....the average "grade" for each team was something like a sophomore. Very young teams

Sent from a, likely, NSA tracked device

[citdog]

Over the past 15 years, Lehigh, Lafayette, and Colgate have all been better than The Citadel.

Even your pals from The Citadel and the Southern Conference would agree with that statement.

I am not comparing Patriot League teams to the entire Southern Conference, just one program.

Point is, scholarships do not automatically equate with a higher-level of play. There are plenty of bad scholarships programs that routinely lose to Ivy / Patriot schools.

Let us take your statement line by line.

1. ANY year the bottom 3 in the Socon would WHIP the schools you mentioned.
2. ANY team that comes to Charleston to play The Citadel knows that the Cadets would go through ANY patsy team like Lee went through Pope at 2nd Manassas.
3. See #2
4. They why are y'all going to scholarships? To get LESS competitive?

[citdog]

Why do I feed the troll?


I think the playoff comm agrees with me. They did leave le high at home last season.

[Engineer86]

The UNI team in 2010 was probably the worst UNI team to take the field on over a decade. The MVFC was just that bad that year....the average "grade" for each team was something like a sophomore. Very young teams

Sent from a, likely, NSA tracked device

So the MVFC gets a pass for that loss/year because it was a bad year, and the next year it must have been a bad year for Towson and the CAA, no credit there? But the PL has two bad years (I will ignore Fordham, because they are not eligible for the automatic, and puppy will never give credit for them), and ithe PL a terrible league always. When is it just a bad year and when is it that the league is an awful league and will never get better and never did anything else.

Even Lehigh fans want a better OOC schedule, but to say the entire league plays no-one OOC is just an ignorant statement, don't lump yourself in with that drivel. "Any bottom 3 in the SoCon would WHIP LU, LC, and Colgate," yet LU beats the MVFcC and CAA champ in back to back years. The guy has no facts just opinions.

Lehigh has been a very solid program over the past 15 years overall. Added scholarships will help to raise the bar in the league. As the other poster asked he will still take the shots then, because Citadel will always be Citadel, but I would expect that you will acknowledge the change, if the league shows change.

[citdog]

So the MVFC gets a pass for that loss/year because it was a bad year, and the next year it must have been a bad year for Towson and the CAA, no credit there? But the PL has two bad years (I will ignore Fordham, because they are not eligible for the automatic, and puppy will never give credit for them), and ithe PL a terrible league always. When is it just a bad year and when is it that the league is an awful league and will never get better and never did anything else.

Even Lehigh fans want a better OOC schedule, but to say the entire league plays no-one OOC is just an ignorant statement, don't lump yourself in with that drivel. "Any bottom 3 in the SoCon would WHIP LU, LC, and Colgate," yet LU beats the MVFcC and CAA champ in back to back years. The guy has no facts just opinions.

Lehigh has been a very solid program over the past 15 years overall. Added scholarships will help to raise the bar in the league. As the other poster asked he will still take the shots then, because Citadel will always be Citadel, but I would expect that you will acknowledge the change, if the league shows change.

I saw the game against UNI. Y'all played VERY well and UNI did not. Any given saturday. Towson was not the team then that they are now. Fordham is head and shoulders above the rest of the patsy. The patsy league has been terrible for 15 years and only recently have they deserved even ONE bid.

If you want a better OOC schedule then freaking SCHEDULE one. Fordham at least has some nuts to play decent teams OOC le high and the rest of the patsy........not so much.
The Western Carolina team that I saw on Saturday is more talented than le high and the rest of the patsy at EVERY POSITION. Excluding Fordham.

When the patsy starts putting a product on the field that is worthy of respect they will HAVE MY RESPECT.

[citdog]

and again.......the playoff committee agrees with me.

[Engineer86]

I saw the game against UNI. Y'all played VERY well and UNI did not. Any given saturday. Towson was not the team then that they are now. Fordham is head and shoulders above the rest of the patsy. The patsy league has been terrible for 15 years and only recently have they deserved even ONE bid.

If you want a better OOC schedule then freaking SCHEDULE one. Fordham at least has some nuts to play decent teams OOC le high and the rest of the patsy........not so much.
The Western Carolina team that I saw on Saturday is more talented than le high and the rest of the patsy at EVERY POSITION. Excluding Fordham.

When the patsy starts putting a product on the field that is worthy of respect they will HAVE MY RESPECT.

More lame opinion, facts say the league wins in the playoffs. (Go ahead and point to the last two yeas)

last I checked "fans" do not make the schedule.

i knew there was a reason I only listened to that show a few times, can't learn much from bias opinions. Let me know if you ever change the format to be more informative.

[Engineer86]

But thanks for entertaining me in my travels

[citdog]

More lame opinion, facts say the league wins in the playoffs. (Go ahead and point to the last two yeas)

last I checked "fans" do not make the schedule.

i knew there was a reason I only listened to that show a few times, can't learn much from bias opinions. Let me know if you ever change the format to be more informative.


The last two years.
you do have influence.
Thanks for the feedback. Thousands disagree with you including quite a few program directors at Sports Radio Stations.
When people throw that at me I always remember what this fella said......


http://budtoboss.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/man_in_the_arena.jpg?w=468

[Engineer86]

The last two years.
you do have influence.
Thanks for the feedback. Thousands disagree with you including quite a few program directors at Sports Radio Stations.
When people throw that at me I always remember what this fella said......


http://budtoboss.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/man_in_the_arena.jpg?w=468

Is that all you have, thousands are hungry for FCS talk, even your drivel fills a hole.

Yep keep telling yourself your opinion is fact, don't be bothered with facts themselves Those radio stations aren't just filling dead air with hot air. xrolleyesx

[citdog]

Is that all you have, thousands are hungry for FCS talk, even your drivel fills a hole.

Yep keep telling yourself your opinion is fact, don't be bothered with facts themselves Those radio stations aren't just filling dead air with hot air. xrolleyesx

I see it with my own EYES. A top 25 team beats Monmouth the way Montana State did. Not the way le high did. A top 25 team doesn't let CCSU outplay them. the problem with the patsy is that you only play each other and the Ivy, plus your Pioneer and NEC games. If you don't defeat those teams soundly what OTHER conclusion can the rest of the country draw?

if you would be interested in hosting a 30 min show about the Patriot League I would gladly help you do so. Then, you too, can be "In the arena".

[Engineer86]

I see it with my own EYES. A top 25 team beats Monmouth the way Montana State did. Not the way le high did. A top 25 team doesn't let CCSU outplay them. the problem with the patsy is that you only play each other and the Ivy, plus your Pioneer and NEC games. If you don't defeat those teams soundly what OTHER conclusion can the rest of the country draw?

if you would be interested in hosting a 30 min show about the Patriot League I would gladly help you do so. Then, you too, can be "In the arena".

Now this I completely agree with, but I differ on the view of whether it is two bad years or all-time. Lehigh is not a top 25 team and the Patriot League should and others Lafayette (future), Fordham, and Colgate the best examples, have sheduled up. I do not defend the performance of the last two years, although I admit to trying to last year. Lehigh has not played a good game in that time frame.

i am amazed at our continued poor schedule. UNH and Villanova, being the exceptions. I think in part it is because the AD does not want to do 2-1 deals, that Delaware demands, while I prefer home games I would travel to better games and I recognize that until we play and beat the CAA teams, to get past the 2-1 deals.

[Tribal]

Lafayette and W&M just completed 2 of 4 where we each play two at home.

[Engineer86]

Lafayette and W&M just completed 2 of 4 where we each play two at home.

Noted, I was focused on who LU plays, you guys have a good mix and seem reasonable on the 2-1 issue. Just to make the point I do not think LU is reasonable in refusing them altogether. With that attitude we will also refuse games at Army or Navy too.

[clenz]

I saw the game against UNI. Y'all played VERY well and UNI did not. Any given saturday. Towson was not the team then that they are now. Fordham is head and shoulders above the rest of the patsy. The patsy league has been terrible for 15 years and only recently have they deserved even ONE bid.

If you want a better OOC schedule then freaking SCHEDULE one. Fordham at least has some nuts to play decent teams OOC le high and the rest of the patsy........not so much.
The Western Carolina team that I saw on Saturday is more talented than le high and the rest of the patsy at EVERY POSITION. Excluding Fordham.

When the patsy starts putting a product on the field that is worthy of respect they will HAVE MY RESPECT.
I cannot speak for that 2010 Towson team.

I can, however, speak to the 2010 UNI team being that I have been too/seen about 70-75 of the 86 UNI games since I first stepped for on UNI's campus - and have been going to UNI games (one or two per year for 7 years before I stepped foot on campus.

That 2010 UNI team was strictly a product of a very very young and bad MVFC. UNI won the clinched the conference title before the season was over, and finished the season with 7 total wins. Going strictly off of that information alone you should be able to tell that the MVFC wasn't very good.

Let's go a couple steps further though

That season UNI scored 282 points. UNI has scored less than 300 only 4 other times since going D1 in 1981. Since 1981, including all the sub 300 years, UNI averages 370 points per season. Notice a difference there?

How about on defense? UNI gave up 253 points that season. Only 7 defenses during the D1 era gave up more points (with only 3 of those being "significantly" higher).

UNI outscored it's opponents by just 29 points that season. Only 5 times in the D1 era has UNI outscored opponents by less.

Enough proof that UNI wasn't as great as you want to believe, and hold up, in 2010? No?

That 7-5, at that time, was out third worst win % since we went D1 in 1981. It was bumped to 4th after last season....ah, but let's touch on that.

UNI went 5-6 last season. HOWEVER, using the power of the internet we can play the hypothetical match up. I ran 4 different 100 game "match ups" (2 home and 2 away) using 3 different computer systems that are on the internet. The 2012 UNI team beats the 2010 UNI team on average 68% of the time.



Oh, we can actually start talking about the roster at some point as well.

Our leading rusher? Our quarterback...who ran for as many yards per game as he threw for nearly (108 rushing to 127 passing).

Going into the Lehigh game he admitted he was about 60% healthy. He was a running QB that struggled to throw the ball turned into Scott freaking Mitchell went it came to mobility. We were also without 2 staring OL, a starting LB and a starting Saftey.

That year was mostly a complete disaster for us.


If you had beaten a good UNI team I'd say so...but...yeah


But hell, if I were a mid level team and we got to beat UNI I'd beat my chest about it all day every day for years as well.

[Engineer86]

I cannot speak for that 2010 Towson team.

I can, however, speak to the 2010 UNI team being that I have been too/seen about 70-75 of the 86 UNI games since I first stepped for on UNI's campus - and have been going to UNI games (one or two per year for 7 years before I stepped foot on campus.

That 2010 UNI team was strictly a product of a very very young and bad MVFC. UNI won the clinched the conference title before the season was over, and finished the season with 7 total wins. Going strictly off of that information alone you should be able to tell that the MVFC wasn't very good.

Let's go a couple steps further though

That season UNI scored 282 points. UNI has scored less than 300 only 4 other times since going D1 in 1981. Since 1981, including all the sub 300 years, UNI averages 370 points per season. Notice a difference there?

How about on defense? UNI gave up 253 points that season. Only 7 defenses during the D1 era gave up more points (with only 3 of those being "significantly" higher).

UNI outscored it's opponents by just 29 points that season. Only 5 times in the D1 era has UNI outscored opponents by less.

Enough proof that UNI wasn't as great as you want to believe, and hold up, in 2010? No?

That 7-5, at that time, was out third worst win % since we went D1 in 1981. It was bumped to 4th after last season....ah, but let's touch on that.

UNI went 5-6 last season. HOWEVER, using the power of the internet we can play the hypothetical match up. I ran 4 different 100 game "match ups" (2 home and 2 away) using 3 different computer systems that are on the internet. The 2012 UNI team beats the 2010 UNI team on average 68% of the time.



Oh, we can actually start talking about the roster at some point as well.

Our leading rusher? Our quarterback...who ran for as many yards per game as he threw for nearly (108 rushing to 127 passing).

Going into the Lehigh game he admitted he was about 60% healthy. He was a running QB that struggled to throw the ball turned into Scott freaking Mitchell went it came to mobility. We were also without 2 staring OL, a starting LB and a starting Saftey.

That year was mostly a complete disaster for us.


If you had beaten a good UNI team I'd say so...but...yeah


But hell, if I were a mid level team and we got to beat UNI I'd beat my chest about it all day every day for years as well.

You missed the point. The argument you throw out is that that is a bad year, and you proved it. You you are on the bandwagon that the PL is terrible for all time based on the past two years. In one case a bad year is forgiven, in an other it justifies condemnation? You don't see any inconsistency there?

to clarify, I am not claiming LU is in the upper level, just not what citdog claims, but I will admit the past two years have been poor including this one

[ursus arctos horribilis]

You missed the point. The argument you throw out is that that is a bad year, and you proved it. You you are on the bandwagon that the PL is terrible for all time based on the past two years. In one case a bad year is forgiven, in an other it justifies condemnation? You don't see any inconsistency there?

to clarify, I am not claiming LU is in the upper level, just not what citdog claims, but I will admit the past two years have been poor including this one

fwiw citdog is full os **** 1/2 the time and just playing with you. I have something to do with that show as well and the PL may not get as much talk as the proverbial top 4 or the "respect" they get but I can assure you that it will also not be disrespected in any way and never has been that I know of. It deals in facts and I can see that you do as well so it shouldn't go against what you like.

Fordham did something very deserving of respect this past weekend and I can assure you they will be shown the same respect that any other team would get from any other conference.

Don't buy too depply into the citdog and pony show he puts on.

[Engineer86]

fwiw citdog is full os **** 1/2 the time and just playing with you. I have something to do with that show as well and the PL may not get as much talk as the proverbial top 4 or the "respect" they get but I can assure you that it will also not be disrespected in any way and never has been that I know of. It deals in facts and I can see that you do as well so it shouldn't go against what you like.

Fordham did something very deserving of respect this past weekend and I can assure you they will be shown the same respect that any other team would get from any other conference.

Don't buy too depply into the citdog and pony show he puts on.

thanks for the comments, much of my time spent replying this week reflects travel and lack of sleep/boredom in China. It is good entertainment. The poll shows many don't agree with him. Heck they have a higher opinion than I do. This board gets me through many a business trip.

[superman7515]

Don't buy too depply into the citdog and pony show he puts on.

The only thing that ever gave Cit more wood than the PL champ getting knocked out of the playoffs each year is when he found out Timothy Hutton would be portraying him in a film based on a dustup that happened while Cit was in charge at camp one summer.

[crusader11]

I bet citdog voted for McCain and Romney, so at least I agree with him on that.

[citdog]

I bet citdog voted for McCain and Romney, so at least I agree with him on that.


http://wonkette.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/inauguration.jpg

[HensRock]

1: North Dakota State Bison
2: Eastern Washington Eagles
3: Sam Houston State Bearkats
4: Montana State Bobcats
5: Towson Tigers
6: Northern Iowa Panthers
7: Montana Grizzlies
8: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
9: Eastern Illinois Panthers
10: Fordham Rams
11: McNeese State Cowboys
12: New Hampshire Wildcats
13: Cal Poly Mustangs
14: Samford Bulldogs
15: Tennessee-Martin Skyhawks
16: Wofford Terriers
17: Central Arkansas Bears
18: Delaware Fightin' Blue Hens
19: Coastal Carolina Chanticleers
20: Villanova Wildcats
21: Northern Arizona Lumberjacks
22: William & Mary Tribe
23: Liberty Flames
24: Bethune-Cookman Wildcats
25: Youngstown State Penguins

This is a public service:
You can take Delaware off your list. We'll probably be about 6-6 this year. Once CAA play starts we'll be exposed. Navy passed all over us.
Yes! Two words you thought you'd never hear together: Navy Passed
And why not - it's there for the taking.

If you are looking for another CAA team to replace them with, take a look at Maine.