MVFC Presason Poll and All-Conference Team

[Professor Chaos]

http://www.valley-football.org/news/default/2013-14/6768/bison-picked-to-win-2013-valley-football-title/

2013 Valley Football Preseason Poll
1. North Dakota State (39) 390
2. South Dakota State 323
3. UNI 269
4. Illinois State 264
5. Youngstown State 253
6. Indiana State 197
7. Southern Illinois 188
8. Missouri State 123
9. Western Illinois 77
10. South Dakota 61

2013 Missouri Valley Football Preseason Team
QB- Brock Jensen, NDSU 6-3 226 Sr. Waupaca (Wis.) High
RB- Shakir Bell, INS 5-8 185 Sr. Indianapolis (Ind.) Warren Central
RB- David Johnson, UNI 6-3 214 Jr. Clinton (Iowa) High
RB- Zach Zenner, SDSU 6-0 215 Jr. Eagan (Minn.) High
FB- Jordan Neukirch, ILS 6-2 235 Sr. Algonquin (Ill.) Huntley High
WR- Dorian Buford, MSU 6-0 184 Sr. St. Louis (Mo.) McCluer North
WR- Ryan Smith, NDSU 5-7 178 Sr. Wahpeton (N.D.) High
TE- MyCole Pruitt, SIU 6-3 250 Jr. St. Louis (Mo.) Kirkwood High
OL- Chris Elkins, YSU 6-3 300 Sr. Beaver Falls (Pa.) High
OL- Jimmy Holtschlag, WIU 6-5 300 Sr. Quincy (Ill.) Notre Dame
OL- Dan Kruger, UNI 6-5 320 Sr. Wesley (Iowa) West Hancock High
OL- Billy Turner, NDSU 6-6 311 Sr. Shoreview (Minn.) Mounds View High
OL- Bryan Witzmann, SDSU 6-7 300 Sr. Houlton (Wis.) Somerset High
PK- Adam Keller, NDSU 6-1 200 Jr. Lewisberry (Pa.) Red Land High

DL- Cole Jirik, NDSU 6-4 245 Sr. Northfield (Minn.) High
DL- Doug Peete, SDSU 6-3 255 Sr. Olathe (Kan.) Olathe North High
DL- Leevon Perry, NDSU 6-3 276 Sr. Cottage Grove (Minn.) Saint Agnes HS
DL- Colton Underwood, ILS 6-4 255 Sr. Washington (Ill.) High
LB- Grant Olson, NDSU 6-0 222 Sr. Plymouth (Minn.) Wayzata High
LB- T.J. Lally, SDSU 6-0 225 So. Chicago (Ill.) Marmion Academy
LB- J.J. Raffelson, WIU 6-3 235 So. Lake Zurich (Ill.) High
LB- Tyler Starr, USD 6-5 230 Sr. Little Rock (Iowa) George-Little Rock
DB- Calvin Burnett, INS 5-9 160 Sr. Orlando (Fla.) Freedom High/Hofstra
DB- Martinez Davis, WIU 5-10 180 Jr. Madisonville (Ky.) Air Force Prep
DB- Caleb Schaffitzel, MSU 6-0 214 Jr. Fair Grove (Mo.) High
DB- Marcus Williams, NDSU 5-11 197 Sr. Minneapolis (Minn.) Hopkins High
P- Ben LeCompte, NDSU 5-10 195 So. Barrington (Ill.) High
RS- Ryan Smith, NDSU 5-7 178 Sr. Wahpeton (N.D.) High

Honorable Mention:QB Sawyer Kollmorgen, UNI; QB Kurt Hess, Youngstown State; WR Brett LeMaster, UNI; OL Josh Aladenoye, Illinois State; OL Jermaine Barton, Illinois State; OL FN Lutz III, Indiana State; PK Tyler Sievertsen, UNI; DL Anthony Grady, Missouri State; LB Jake Farley, UNI; LB Travis Beck, North Dakota State; P Austin Pucylowski, Southern Illinois.

[Professor Chaos]

Any my obligatory homer post about the NDSU snubs: DE Kyle Emmanuel, LB Carlton Littlejohn, FS Christian Dudzik. I'll also say that if RBs Sam Ojuri or John Crockett weren't sharing carries with each other they'd be pushing as well although it would be tough to crack the first team with guys like Zenner and Bell already there.

I'm also a little surprised to see Ryan Smith on there as a first team WR.

[AmsterBison]

Meh. I prefer postseason recognition. Just hopeful that Leevon will be able to play.

[Houndawg]

Any my obligatory homer post about the NDSU snubs: DE Kyle Emmanuel, LB Carlton Littlejohn, FS Christian Dudzik. I'll also say that if RBs Sam Ojuri or John Crockett weren't sharing carries with each other they'd be pushing as well although it would be tough to crack the first team with guys like Zenner and Bell already there.

I'm also a little surprised to see Ryan Smith on there as a first team WR.

Zenner is overrated but I don't know who would replace him.

2nd - 7th place could be in any order. Or all tied for 2nd place.

[KUlawJack]

Zenner is overrated but I don't know who would replace him.

2nd - 7th place could be in any order. Or all tied for 2nd place.

If you can't name a back to replace him, how is he overrated? That doesn't make any sense.

[Houndawg]

If you can't name a back to replace him, how is he overrated? That doesn't make any sense.

Good point. Johnson from UNI is better. And I only saw Zenner against SIU but there wasn't anything exceptional about him that day. IMO Minnett was a far better RB.

[Twentysix]

North Dakota State (39) 390
South Dakota State 323
UNI 269
Youngstown State 253
Illinois State 264
Southern Illinois 188
Indiana State 197
Missouri State 123
Western Illinois 77
South Dakota 61

I hope to see Missouri state jump up in the rankings, and I feel like WIU and USD will both suck big time.

Top 7 as top 25 teams.

Hopefully SIU can produce this year. Isu-b should be able to ride their RB and D pretty well, I don't think what their HC built will implode in 1 year. Next year they will probably be horrible again.

[Bisonator]

Pretty much as expected.

[clenz]

If you can't name a back to replace him, how is he overrated? That doesn't make any sense.

Johnson

quando omni flunkus moritati

[IndyTreeFan]

Isu-b should be able to ride their RB and D pretty well, I don't think what their HC built will implode in 1 year. Next year they will probably be horrible again.

Why?

[Twentysix]

Why?

Because the new coach will be one more year removed from a great coach. Team's don't always get better, especially when more of your awesome players get cycled out.

Example #1, SIU.

[KUlawJack]

Johnson

quando omni flunkus moritati

Sure looks like Johnson is already on the list posted directly above. So your post also doesn't make sense.

I agree though, a guy that makes his all-conference preseason team after rushing for over 2,000 yards the previous year is obviously overrated. Amazing they would even include such a player. xrolleyesx

[Houndawg]

Sure looks like Johnson is already on the list posted directly above. So your post also doesn't make sense.

I agree though, a guy that makes his all-conference preseason team after rushing for over 2,000 yards the previous year is obviously overrated. Amazing they would even include such a player. xrolleyesx

You sound like a Butthurt Bison Backer.

I'm the only person in the country that picks SDSU to win the MVC.

[Gil Dobie]

You sound like a Butthurt Bison Backer.

I'm the only person in the country that picks SDSU to win the MVC.

I wouldn't be surprised if it was SDSU or UNI or the team coached by the Brawny guy.
http://sdsandwiches.com/truebrawny.jpg

[frozennorth]

Any my obligatory homer post about the NDSU snubs: DE Kyle Emmanuel, LB Carlton Littlejohn, FS Christian Dudzik. I'll also say that if RBs Sam Ojuri or John Crockett weren't sharing carries with each other they'd be pushing as well although it would be tough to crack the first team with guys like Zenner and Bell already there.

I'm also a little surprised to see Ryan Smith on there as a first team WR.

i feel like people need to put smith on there somewhere, because he is a playmaker all over the field, but not really deserving persay at any specific position.

[IndyTreeFan]

Because the new coach will be one more year removed from a great coach. Team's don't always get better, especially when more of your awesome players get cycled out.

Example #1, SIU.

Interesting that you're writing the story of our demise before our new coach has coached a single game. A little premature, don't you think? Sanford might prove to be a bust, but it's a little early to make that call. Honestly, I think he'll prove to be a more capable coach than Miles. Time will tell...

[Houndawg]

I wouldn't be surprised if it was SDSU or UNI or the team coached by the Brawny guy.
http://sdsandwiches.com/truebrawny.jpg

I don't see SIU finishing above 4th unless there is a six way tie for 2nd place. I think we'll see some improvement on offense but we lost some studs from a defense that forced 22 turnovers and scored ten TDs. Road games at Illinois, UNI, SDSU, Indiana St., and no game with USD. Tough row to hoe. That's probably 4 losses and we host NDSU. Not to mention IlSt is going to have us circled after the pimp slapping we gave them by shutting them out on their homecoming last year. I see another 6-5/5-6 year and Lennon's penultimate season.

[Twentysix]

Interesting that you're writing the story of our demise before our new coach has coached a single game. A little premature, don't you think? Sanford might prove to be a bust, but it's a little early to make that call. Honestly, I think he'll prove to be a more capable coach than Miles. Time will tell...

We shall see, you are obviously taking it as more than an offhanded comment.

[KUlawJack]

You sound like a Butthurt Bison Backer.

I'm the only person in the country that picks SDSU to win the MVC.

Not at all. You guys said he's overrated and then proceeded to name a guy who is also on the preseason all conference team to support your argument. How does that make any sense?

ZZ is overrated compared to what? The other backs in the conference that aren't on the all conference team? Surely you could name one then. No need to jump to calling someone "butt hurt" because you can't support your initial premise.

[89rabbit]

Not to pile on, but it is kind of hard to say that the guy who led D-I in rushing last year with 2,044 yrds is overrated because he made the pre-season All-Conference Team. I would kind of expect him there.


http://vimeo.com/69988402

[Twentysix]

Not at all. You guys said he's overrated and then proceeded to name a guy who is also on the preseason all conference team to support your argument. How does that make any sense?

ZZ is overrated compared to what? The other backs in the conference that aren't on the all conference team? Surely you could name one then. No need to jump to calling someone "butt hurt" because you can't support your initial premise.

He is just mad that SIU has sucked for the last.. forever. In that one line he managed to include both teams he is wildly jealous of, NDSU and SDSU.

Besides ZZ can't rush his way out of a paper bag ;)

See
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLYsnxoCvdc

[NoDak 4 Ever]

He is just mad that SIU has sucked for the last.. forever. In that one line he managed to include both teams he is wildly jealous of, NDSU and SDSU.

Besides ZZ can't rush his way out of a paper bag ;)

See
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLYsnxoCvdc


To be fair. that is KU. :)


Zenner is good, he deserves to be on this list. If you don't think so.....

http://designarchives.aiga.org/assets/images/000/008/729/8729_lg.jpg

[clenz]

Zenner beat the **** out of the little sisters of the poor on the schedule, but when put against top half defenses he struggled...

In 5 games against YSU, SIU, UNI, and NDSU he went for only 324 yards (65 ypg) the most yards he had in a single game against one of thsoe schools was still over 50 yards less than his low in the games against SELA, UCDavis, ISUb,MSU, WIU, USD, EIU he had 1524 yards (218 ypg).

His Kansas game was still a good game, though without that 99 yard run he had 22 carries for 84 yards (3.8 ypc). Also, I've said this before...watch the video of that run. The OL did all the work for him. I don't think he was touched until the defender swiped at his shoe 80 yards down field. I'm fat, slow, and. That was a GREAT play call and execution!xthumbsupx

I still feel like he is a very good RB and deserves to be recognized as such

[Houndawg]

Zenner beat the **** out of the little sisters of the poor on the schedule, but when put against top half defenses he struggled...

In 5 games against YSU, SIU, UNI, and NDSU he went for only 324 yards (65 ypg) the most yards he had in a single game against one of thsoe schools was still over 50 yards less than his low in the games against SELA, UCDavis, ISUb,MSU, WIU, USD, EIU he had 1524 yards (218 ypg).

His Kansas game was still a good game, though without that 99 yard run he had 22 carries for 84 yards (3.8 ypc). Also, I've said this before...watch the video of that run. The OL did all the work for him. I don't think he was touched until the defender swiped at his shoe 80 yards down field. I'm fat, slow, and. That was a GREAT play call and execution!xthumbsupx

I still feel like he is a very good RB and deserves to be recognized as such

Just because he's overrated doesn't mean he totally sucks. But Minnett was better.

[clenz]

I don't think he sucks, nor do I think I said that

quando omni flunkus moritati

[Bisonator]

Zenner beat the **** out of the little sisters of the poor on the schedule, but when put against top half defenses he struggled...

In 5 games against YSU, SIU, UNI, and NDSU he went for only 324 yards (65 ypg) the most yards he had in a single game against one of thsoe schools was still over 50 yards less than his low in the games against SELA, UCDavis, ISUb,MSU, WIU, USD, EIU he had 1524 yards (218 ypg).

His Kansas game was still a good game, though without that 99 yard run he had 22 carries for 84 yards (3.8 ypc). Also, I've said this before...watch the video of that run. The OL did all the work for him. I don't think he was touched until the defender swiped at his shoe 80 yards down field. I'm fat, slow, and. That was a GREAT play call and execution!xthumbsupx

I still feel like he is a very good RB and deserves to be recognized as such

Agreed.

[Houndawg]

Not at all. You guys said he's overrated and then proceeded to name a guy who is also on the preseason all conference team to support your argument. How does that make any sense?

ZZ is overrated compared to what? The other backs in the conference that aren't on the all conference team? Surely you could name one then. No need to jump to calling someone "butt hurt" because you can't support your initial premise.

Compared to his hype. I saw him play and he carried the ball for 49 yards in 17 tries with a long of 19. Less 100 yds. total vs. NDSU in two tries, 88 yds against YSU....UNI was the only top half team he did get 100 yds. against. Maybe when he gets drafted he'll prove me wrong.

[89rabbit]

Still waiting. Please show us the back that you think is more deserving of being listed on the MVFC All-Conference team.

[89rabbit]

He led the nation in rushing yards . . . it is like trying to argue "Well sure NDSU won the National Championship, but they are overrated. A great team wouldn't have lost to a non-playoff school at home." I guess I don't get it. Give credit where credit is due.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Still waiting. Please show us the back that you think is more deserving of being listed on the MVFC All-Conference team.

This is kind of it right here. NDSU has a very good rushing offense but splits the carries between two backs. ZZ needs to step up against good competition but pre-season, you have to put him there.

[89rabbit]

This is kind of it right here. NDSU has a very good rushing offense but splits the carries between two backs. ZZ needs to step up against good competition but pre-season, you have to put him there.


You mean like Prairie View A&M and Robert Morris. ;) xlolx

[IndyTreeFan]

We shall see, you are obviously taking it as more than an offhanded comment.

Nah, just curious why you said that. Heck, you may prove to be right. I just think with our AD's proven ability to pick coaches, and with the increased support to the program from the University, we aren't going back into the abyss. Miles missed mightily on many players over the past couple of classes. His recruiting, after the first couple of classes, left a lot to be desired. I'll always be grateful to him for bringing us back to respectibility, but it might have been time to move on.

Sanford's first recruiting class was outstanding. He recruited the entire country, which is new for us. I haven't seen the man coach a game yet, but I like what I see. Plus, any offense that won't get Shakir killed every week is a step in the right direction.

No offense taken, I was just curious. Looking forward to a great football season!!!

[Houndawg]

He led the nation in rushing yards . . . it is like trying to argue "Well sure NDSU won the National Championship, but they are overrated. A great team wouldn't have lost to a non-playoff school at home." I guess I don't get it. Give credit where credit is due.

I give him credit - all I said was I thought he was overrated, and at first glance I missed that Johnson was already on the team. Surely you agree that Johnson is a better RB?

[Houndawg]

He is just mad that SIU has sucked for the last.. forever. In that one line he managed to include both teams he is wildly jealous of, NDSU and SDSU.

Besides ZZ can't rush his way out of a paper bag ;)

See
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLYsnxoCvdc

Awwwww, sweetheart...I didn't mean to hurt your feelings. You still mad because I said Pat Paschall wasn't very fast?

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Awwwww, sweetheart...I didn't mean to hurt your feelings. You still mad because I said Pat Paschall wasn't very fast?

Don't worry about him, he's probably not old enough to have seen SIU win a championship.

[MSUBear42]

17957

Great vote of confidence for this guy...

Return 17 starters and still picked 8th!

xbowxxbowxxbowxxbowxxbowxxbowxxbowxxbowxxbowxxbowx

[89rabbit]

I give him credit - all I said was I thought he was overrated, and at first glance I missed that Johnson was already on the team. Surely you agree that Johnson is a better RB?

Overrated as compared to what?

No I don't think Johnson is a better RB - Not if you compare body of work for 2012. Zenner has better stats for rushing (#1 vs. #35) and all purpose yards (#7 vs. #34). Looking at the stats one can argue that Shakir Bell is better then Johnson.

2012 NCAA Rushing Stats

http://www.ncaa.com/stats/football/fcs/current/individual/1001


2012 NCAA All Purpose

http://www.ncaa.com/stats/football/fcs/current/individual/1009


Not even if you look at our head to head meeting in Cedar Falls. Zenner avg. 1.1 more yds per carry then Johnson

http://www.gojacks.com/fls/15000/stats/2012_FB/sdsu07.htm

Rushing No Gain Loss Net TD Lg Avg
--------------------------------------------
Zenner,Zach 20 113 1 112 0 19 5.6

Rushing No Gain Loss Net TD Lg Avg
--------------------------------------------
Johnson, David 27 122 1 121 1 16 4.5

[AmsterBison]

17957

Great vote of confidence for this guy...

Return 17 starters and still picked 8th!

xbowxxbowxxbowxxbowxxbowxxbowxxbowxxbowxxbowxxbowx

Ouch. You'd think that if the Missouri State offense came together, the team could compete for the title because the defense is definitely good enough.

As The Voice might intone, "In a league without creampuffs, even good teams will lose."

[NoDak 4 Ever]

17957

Great vote of confidence for this guy...

Return 17 starters and still picked 8th!

xbowxxbowxxbowxxbowxxbowxxbowxxbowxxbowxxbowxxbowx

If you return 17 starters from a team that didn't win it's first game until mid-October, what does that even mean?

[Bisonator]

If you return 17 starters from a team that didn't win it's first game until mid-October, what does that even mean?

You need better starters? ;)

[Houndawg]

Overrated as compared to what?

No I don't think Johnson is a better RB - Not if you compare body of work for 2012. Zenner has better stats for rushing (#1 vs. #35) and all purpose yards (#7 vs. #34). Looking at the stats one can argue that Shakir Bell is better then Johnson.

2012 NCAA Rushing Stats

http://www.ncaa.com/stats/football/fcs/current/individual/1001


2012 NCAA All Purpose

http://www.ncaa.com/stats/football/fcs/current/individual/1009


Not even if you look at our head to head meeting in Cedar Falls. Zenner avg. 1.1 more yds per carry then Johnson

http://www.gojacks.com/fls/15000/stats/2012_FB/sdsu07.htm

Rushing No Gain Loss Net TD Lg Avg
--------------------------------------------
Zenner,Zach 20 113 1 112 0 19 5.6

Rushing No Gain Loss Net TD Lg Avg
--------------------------------------------
Johnson, David 27 122 1 121 1 16 4.5


You disagree with clenz point that he ran up his stats on weak teams?
Zero big plays (20+yds.) against the good defenses.

Looks like they left him in when the outcome was decided in order to pad his stats against the third stringers..

[89rabbit]

I believe I have made my position quite clear. xcoffeex

[Houndawg]

I believe I have made my position quite clear. xcoffeex

Sounds we agree that clenz got it right.:D

[89rabbit]

So you assertion is that Zenner the leading rusher in the nation is overrated - because . . . well we are not sure, but that is how you "feel". Fair enough. You also assert that the #1 rusher in the nation is not as good as the guy who finished #35 because . . . well clenz says so. You got some serious logic going on Mr. Houndawg-Spock.

17959


How in the world can I argue with that? xrolleyesx xlolx

[Houndawg]

So you assertion is that Zenner the leading rusher in the nation is overrated - because . . . well we are not sure, but that is how you "feel". Fair enough. You also assert that the #1 rusher in the nation is not as good as the guy who finished #35 because . . . well clenz says so. You got some serious logic going on Mr. Houndawg-Spock.

17959


How in the world can I argue with that? xrolleyesx xlolx

xlolx You're not sure? Neither clenz nor I could have said it any plainer - here I'll type slower..he didn't produce against the top of your schedule and against the weaklings he got left in for the mop up. Not that there's anything wrong with that, it's good publicity for a team that isn't near much media.

[darell1976]

So you assertion is that Zenner the leading rusher in the nation is overrated - because . . . well we are not sure, but that is how you "feel". Fair enough. You also assert that the #1 rusher in the nation is not as good as the guy who finished #35 because . . . well clenz says so. You got some serious logic going on Mr. Houndawg-Spock.

17959


How in the world can I argue with that? xrolleyesx xlolx

I hope our D can contain Mr. Zenner and the rest of the Jacks. I can't wait to get my tickets on Thursday!! Should be a great game and (at least for UND) it will be our first real test of the season.

[89rabbit]

xlolx You're not sure? Neither clenz nor I could have said it any plainer - here I'll type slower..he didn't produce against the top of your schedule and against the weaklings he got left in for the mop up. Not that there's anything wrong with that, it's good publicity for a team that isn't near much media.

Do you remember what they call the tournament at the end of the season? I know it has been along time for your guys, but they call it the playoffs. That is where the best teams end up. Eastern Illinois who won the Ohio Valley Conference, and beat your team 49-28 during the regular season (SIU ran the ball 36 times for 77 yards - Avg. 2.14),for the year allowed 170.2 yards rushing per game. Zenner ran all over them for 295 yards on 33 carries for 8.9 yards per carry. Now I know they aren't world beaters like Central State University (Are they D-II or NAIA?) who held your favorite David Johnson to 5 yds on 6 carries - what is that like 0.8 yds per carry - but I think we can agree that FCS playoff teams are some of the better teams on any team's schedule.

So Zenner blew up a FBS school and blew up a FCS playoff school on the way to leading the nation in rushing.

EIU stats

http://www.eiupanthers.com/custompages/football/2012/EIUFBStats2012.pdf


1st Round of the FCS Playoffs

http://www.gojacks.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPID=7153&DB_OEM_ID=15000&ATCLID=205764017


If you and clenz want to be haters, ok, but the young man can play. If you "feel" he is overrated well I guess that is your opinion, but the facts don't back you up. xrolleyesx

[mmiller_34]

Zenner didn't produce against NDSU (twice) and SIU. He saw limited carries in those games as well... He carried 17 times against SIU, 14 once against NDSU and 15 the other time. He was getting at least 25 in most other games. Why wouldn't that be the case? Why wouldn't SDSU try to pass the ball more on the teams that play outstanding run defense?

Zenner's inflated numbers Are NOT because he was kept in against the third stringers.. It was because in over half of his games he had multiple runs of over 40 yards. Zenner also didn't play the in the fourth quarter in the playoff game--still had over 250 yards.

[KUlawJack]

xlolx You're not sure? Neither clenz nor I could have said it any plainer - here I'll type slower..he didn't produce against the top of your schedule and against the weaklings he got left in for the mop up. Not that there's anything wrong with that, it's good publicity for a team that isn't near much media.

Care to offer any actual evidence of that? We had three to four games last year which one could consider "blowouts." The catch is ZZ turned them into blowouts. He didn't play the 4th quarter against EIU after breaking the game open. He sat for nearly the entire 4th against WIU after he broke the game open. He sat nearly the entire 4th quarter against Southeast Louisiana after breaking that game open. He sat for the last half of the 4th quarter against USD after we put it out of reach. (I would have liked if he continued to play and ran it up for obvious reasons.)

Check the stats against YSU. We knew we could throw on them and we did. ZZ got a break after carrying the load for weeks to start the season while Sumner was hurt. Still averaged over 5 yards a pop.

I also love when people make the argument "well, if you took away that 99-yarder against KU...." Well, you can't take that away because it happened.

He got shut down by two teams last year - SIU and NDSU. No one ran on NDSU and our offensive line got their ass kicked all day long. I was there. I know.

If you actually think he is overrated, nothing I can do will change your mind. I just wanted to point out that your argument is flawed, especially considering the "mop up duty" aspect of it.

Looking forward to SIU on Hobo Day. Should be a good game.

[Houndawg]

Do you remember what they call the tournament at the end of the season? I know it has been along time for your guys, but they call it the playoffs. That is where the best teams end up. Eastern Illinois who won the Ohio Valley Conference, and beat your team 49-28 during the regular season (SIU ran the ball 36 times for 77 yards - Avg. 2.14),for the year allowed 170.2 yards rushing per game. Zenner ran all over them for 295 yards on 33 carries for 8.9 yards per carry. Now I know they aren't world beaters like Central State University (Are they D-II or NAIA?) who held your favorite David Johnson to 5 yds on 6 carries - what is that like 0.8 yds per carry - but I think we can agree that FCS playoff teams are some of the better teams on any team's schedule.

So Zenner blew up a FBS school and blew up a FCS playoff school on the way to leading the nation in rushing.

EIU stats

http://www.eiupanthers.com/custompages/football/2012/EIUFBStats2012.pdf


1st Round of the FCS Playoffs

http://www.gojacks.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPID=7153&DB_OEM_ID=15000&ATCLID=205764017


If you and clenz want to be haters, ok, but the young man can play. If you "feel" he is overrated well I guess that is your opinion, but the facts don't back you up. xrolleyesx

Anybody who doesn't think your boy is the greatest is a hater, got it. Nobody said he wasn't good, just pointing out that like Dr. Deming said "Statistics are like bikinis, what they reveal is interesting, what they don't reveal is vital". If you want to ignore the fact that he didn't produce against the top of your schedule and get all butthurt when somebody points that out that is certainly your privilege as a fan. The fact that EIU gave up 4 TDs to SIU's feeble excuse for an offense proves my point, not yours. xcoffeex

[Houndawg]

Zenner didn't produce against NDSU (twice) and SIU. He saw limited carries in those games as well... He carried 17 times against SIU, 14 once against NDSU and 15 the other time. He was getting at least 25 in most other games. Why wouldn't that be the case? Why wouldn't SDSU try to pass the ball more on the teams that play outstanding run defense?

Zenner's inflated numbers Are NOT because he was kept in against the third stringers.. It was because in over half of his games he had multiple runs of over 40 yards. Zenner also didn't play the in the fourth quarter in the playoff game--still had over 250 yards.

That's my point, if we was as amazing as you're saying they wouldn't need to throw more.

[KUlawJack]

That's my point, if we was as amazing as you're saying they wouldn't need to throw more.

Offensive line still needs to try to block someone. Exhibit A - NDSU games. Not good for the offensive line. In fact, it was horrific to watch considering the success we had running the ball the entire year.

[Houndawg]

Care to offer any actual evidence of that? We had three to four games last year which one could consider "blowouts." The catch is ZZ turned them into blowouts. He didn't play the 4th quarter against EIU after breaking the game open. He sat for nearly the entire 4th against WIU after he broke the game open. He sat nearly the entire 4th quarter against Southeast Louisiana after breaking that game open. He sat for the last half of the 4th quarter against USD after we put it out of reach. (I would have liked if he continued to play and ran it up for obvious reasons.)

Check the stats against YSU. We knew we could throw on them and we did. ZZ got a break after carrying the load for weeks to start the season while Sumner was hurt. Still averaged over 5 yards a pop.

I also love when people make the argument "well, if you took away that 99-yarder against KU...." Well, you can't take that away because it happened.

He got shut down by two teams last year - SIU and NDSU. No one ran on NDSU and our offensive line got their ass kicked all day long. I was there. I know.

If you actually think he is overrated, nothing I can do will change your mind. I just wanted to point out that your argument is flawed, especially considering the "mop up duty" aspect of it.

Looking forward to SIU on Hobo Day. Should be a good game.

See, you're equating "overrated" with bad. Nobody said he was bad. You guys talk like he's another Brandon Jacobs and I don't see it.

Serious question: Do you think he is a better RB than Kyle Minnett? Not did he have a better season - different lines, different opponents- but is he a better RB?

[Houndawg]

Offensive line still needs to try to block someone. Exhibit A - NDSU games. Not good for the offensive line. In fact, it was horrific to watch considering the success we had running the ball the entire year.

I know all about what watching bad o line play is like.

[mmiller_34]

See, you're equating "overrated" with bad. Nobody said he was bad. You guys talk like he's another Brandon Jacobs and I don't see it.

Serious question: Do you think he is a better RB than Kyle Minnett? Not did he have a better season - different lines, different opponents- but is he a better RB?

Yes he is...and he is a top RB in the MVFC which is why he is on the list.

[Houndawg]

Care to offer any actual evidence of that? We had three to four games last year which one could consider "blowouts." The catch is ZZ turned them into blowouts. He didn't play the 4th quarter against EIU after breaking the game open. He sat for nearly the entire 4th against WIU after he broke the game open. He sat nearly the entire 4th quarter against Southeast Louisiana after breaking that game open. He sat for the last half of the 4th quarter against USD after we put it out of reach. (I would have liked if he continued to play and ran it up for obvious reasons.)

Check the stats against YSU. We knew we could throw on them and we did. ZZ got a break after carrying the load for weeks to start the season while Sumner was hurt. Still averaged over 5 yards a pop.

I also love when people make the argument "well, if you took away that 99-yarder against KU...." Well, you can't take that away because it happened.

He got shut down by two teams last year - SIU and NDSU. No one ran on NDSU and our offensive line got their ass kicked all day long. I was there. I know.

If you actually think he is overrated, nothing I can do will change your mind. I just wanted to point out that your argument is flawed, especially considering the "mop up duty" aspect of it.

Looking forward to SIU on Hobo Day. Should be a good game.

I didn't put forth that argument because I don't agree with it. Deji Karim was the same way - stop him most of the game then he breaks a couple of big ones.

[clenz]

No one has ever said he isn't a good back...but over-hyped/overrated is a good way to put it.

He didn't produce against the good teams...if he was a stud like you make him out to be he would still put up 140 yards plus against good teams...you wouldn't have to abandon the run.

He put up ****ing huge numbers against little sisters of the poor, freaking great....below average against good teams.

Still a good back...not what you're making him out to be.

[Houndawg]

Yes he is...and he is a top RB in the MVFC which is why he is on the list.

What round do you think he will be drafted in?

[mmiller_34]

That's my point, if we was as amazing as you're saying they wouldn't need to throw more.

You don't beat great teams by being one-demensional.

[KUlawJack]

See, you're equating "overrated" with bad. Nobody said he was bad. You guys talk like he's another Brandon Jacobs and I don't see it.

Serious question: Do you think he is a better RB than Kyle Minnett? Not did he have a better season - different lines, different opponents- but is he a better RB?

No, I'm not equating overrated with bad. I'm pointing out that he wasn't left in to pad his stats against "third stringers" as you stated, thereby refuting your implication that he added a ton of yards to his season total against teams when it didn't count.

Do I think he's better than Minnett? Probably so. He's much faster, just as big, and breaks tackles just as well. I don't know if he is as tough as Minnett, maybe he is. Minnett was a tough SOB. Minnett had better field vision. He could see creases where most backs couldn't. That is what made him special.

ZZ's only going to be a junior. Two full years remaining. Do I think he's a better RB than Minnett going into their respective junior seasons? No doubt.

Now, will he have a better career? We will have to see. Lots of games left to be played.

[mmiller_34]

What round do you think he will be drafted in?

C'mon... All I have said is he is a top RB in the MVFC and he is better than Minett. I have not proclaimed him to be a godsend. What I did do was try to defend him and why he is on that list.

[KUlawJack]

No one has ever said he isn't a good back...but over-hyped/overrated is a good way to put it.

He didn't produce against the good teams...if he was a stud like you make him out to be he would still put up 140 yards plus against good teams...you wouldn't have to abandon the run.

He put up ****ing huge numbers against little sisters of the poor, freaking great....below average against good teams.

Still a good back...not what you're making him out to be.

Below average by what standard? His own freak numbers?

Only 2 teams kept him in check last year. We played 12 different teams. I wouldn't consider being "held" to 88 yards on 17 carries against YSU (5 yard average) and 115 on 20 carries against UNI to be below average performance.

And, we're making him out to be what he is, an all-conference player that led FCS in rushing last year.

[Houndawg]

C'mon... All I have said is he is a top RB in the MVFC and he is better than Minett. I have not proclaimed him to be a godsend. What I did do was try to defend him and why he is on that list.

I'll concede the point, like I said earlier, I didn't see Johnson's name on the list at first glance and based on watching the two of them against our defense I think Johnson is the better back.

[KUlawJack]

I'll concede the point, like I said earlier, I didn't see Johnson's name on the list at first glance and based on watching the two of them against our defense I think Johnson is the better back.

No doubt that Johnson is a very good back.

We clearly like our guy too. xhomerx

[Houndawg]

No doubt that Johnson is a very good back.

We clearly like our guy too. xhomerx

Not a thing wrong with that, we have a couple of good backs coming in too, but the jury is still out on our o line.

[Redbird Recon]

David Johnson is the best back in the MVFC.

[mmiller_34]

David Johnson is the best back in the MVFC.

He is a very talented individual.

[Redbird Recon]

He is a very talented individual.
Other than M-Will, David Johnson was the most talented player in the MVFC last season.

[Houndawg]

Other than M-Will, David Johnson was the most talented player in the MVFC last season.

I'd put Mycole Pruitt on the short list for pure talent

[UNIFanSince1983]

Let's face it. Both players are very good. Both are on the preseason All-Conference team. Both are on the Payton Award list. Both are preseason All-American of some sort. Let's not forget that Shakir Bell is right there too. This conference is LOADED with talented running backs. There are two up there in Fargo, and then I am sure there are others I am missing.

[Bisonator]

Let's face it. Both players are very good. Both are on the preseason All-Conference team. Both are on the Payton Award list. Both are preseason All-American of some sort. Let's not forget that Shakir Bell is right there too. This conference is LOADED with talented running backs. There are two up there in Fargo, and then I am sure there are others I am missing.

Yep. xnodx