The division-I FCS forbidden subject

[Panther88]

It's the elephant in the room that no one, black or white, wants to really talk about. At this juncture, I do want to discuss.

Integrating the playing fields @ division-I FCS HBCUs. Why are they still mostly segregated up to the fall 2012 campaign? I say mostly because we see onesies and twosies here or there @ specific schools in specific positions (kicker, punter, and LS xsmhx ) ALTHOUGH the Norfolk States and FAMUs of the world are certainly doing what is right w/ regards to recruiting the best possible student-athlete, regardless of ethnicity.

It's a prevailing mindset that has me, a man of color, actually calling those who are TOTALLY against it-(recruitment and diversification) "racists," "self-defeatists," and just plain "ignorant." I think it's those HBCU grads who were reared in their little bitty segregated environments, relegated to an HBCU that is majorily segregated, and then not being able to function in mainstream diversified america and show zero willingness to change their ways (thoughts) who are the trouble makers and the reasoning why HBCUs cannot advance athletically (in total). Some of the comments I've heard are ridiculously asinine.

[Laker]

88, your post reminded me of this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grambling%27s_White_Tiger

Your post asks an excellent question. It really doesn't make sense when you look at it. I would think that you would want to get the best players that you could. Savannah State's Kyle McGowin showed that you can get a winning mix. Although I have to say, I'm certainly no expert on this.

[Panther88]

Laker, the very fact that you are an ADVOCATE makes you a supreme expert on this matter. I haven't checked yet but officially, I'd like to see the %s of Anglo players on athletic scholarship (football) @ HBCUs. Attending the game, again, you see onesies and twosies and their respective positions. Every so often the QB position will shine w/ a non-black kid. But RB? WR? OL? DL? DE? LB? DB? ... xsmhx There are some great kids who aren't even being offered because "them people don't wanna' come tah ourz schoolz." The ignorantly racist SOBs make me sick to my stomach.

HBCUs will never EVER in this lifetime compete @ the division-I level in sports because they have yet to integrate fully into american society by INTEGRATING its playing/coaching fields. xsmhx

[Bison06]

Laker, the very fact that you are an ADVOCATE makes you a supreme expert on this matter. I haven't checked yet but officially, I'd like to see the %s of Anglo players on athletic scholarship (football) @ HBCUs. Attending the game, again, you see onesies and twosies and their respective positions. Every so often the QB position will shine w/ a non-black kid. But RB? WR? OL? DL? DE? LB? DB? ... xsmhx There are some great kids who aren't even being offered because "them people don't wanna' come tah ourz schoolz." The ignorantly racist SOBs make me sick to my stomach.

HBCUs will never EVER in this lifetime compete @ the division-I level in sports because they have yet to integrate fully into american society by INTEGRATING its playing/coaching fields. xsmhx

I had to run outside to see if pigs were floating through the air after that comment.

Never thought I see the day that people would be discussing how a team could be more competitive on the football field and someone would say "We need more white kids".

xrotatehx

What a day! Haha

[Panther88]

I had to run outside to see if pigs were floating through the air after that comment.

Never thought I see the day that people would be discussing how a team could be more competitive on the football field and someone would say "We need more white kids".

xrotatehx

What a day! Haha

Talented white kids Bison. Just like others seek talented black kids. Right?

Does some of this sound familiar w/ the mindset of those large PWCUs of the 60s? The univ of alabamas? lsus? ole miss? miss st? Those types? Now, look @ the ridiculous double-standard. xsmhx

17825

[Bison06]

Talented white kids Bison. Just like others seek talented black kids. Right?

Does some of this sound familiar w/ the mindset of those large PWCUs of the 60s? The univ of alabamas? lsus? ole miss? miss st? Those types? Now, look @ the ridiculous double-standard. xsmhx

17825

I completely agree, it was just funny to hear someone say it that way.

The fact that places exist that cater to one race or another in 2013 only continues to move our society in the wrong direction.

[Panther88]

I completely agree, it was just funny to hear someone say it that way.

The fact that places exist that cater to one race or another in 2013 only continues to move our society in the wrong direction.

Oh I'm giving you negative rep for that comment sir!!!!! *slap!* *slap!* Because what you said makes TREMENDOUSLY great sense. It is indeed moving in the wrong direction for HBCUs because the insipids who are in those administrative positions are holdover segregationists/racists who refuse to join the fully integrated mainstream. xsmhx

side note: j/k about the negative rep comment. I've already given you + rep

[RichH2]

I completely agree, it was just funny to hear someone say it that way.

The fact that places exist that cater to one race or another in 2013 only continues to move our society in the wrong direction.

So true. Altho, a number of schools have recruited white players quite well. DelSt , AlaSt, Norfolk etc. A move to be encouraged not mocked.

[Panther88]

I agree in public and private RichH2

[Bison06]

It's actually very hard for me to relate to people who would advocate for such segregation. It's like trying to get an atheist and a Christian to come to an understanding.

These people's views of the world are just so different than mine that coming to a common ground or even discussing this with them at all is difficult. In a perfect world, my generation would know absolutely nothing about segregation or racism.

I'll use an analogy that seems indelicate if you'll allow. I grew up a Bison fan, Bison fans hate UND fans. Just the way it goes. I hated UND. Didn't know why necessarily, just what I was supposed to do. We haven't played them in nearly 10 years and now we have 10 years of Bison fans/players who know very little if not nothing about UND as a rival. Because it's been gone for so long. But some people continue to talk about it and then it introduces these prejudices and hatred to people who otherwise would have lived their entire lives not thinking for a second about hating UND fans.

If we didn't spend so much of our time talking about race or segregating certain portions of our society. I truly believe it would begin to be a thing of the past. I don't believe it will ever be completely eradicated, just the same way some NDSU fans will always hate UND fans. But HBCU's only continue to perpetuate a problem if they don't begin to allow their students an experience that is more commensurate with the experience they will have after college.

[Panther88]

You cannot reason w/ those types Bison because they are incapable of rational thought.

[Big Dawg]

There are some great kids who aren't even being offered because "them people don't wanna' come tah ourz schoolz."


Hold on there...there is some truth to that statement. How many white parents are truly steering their kids towards HBCU's the way black parents are steering their kids AWAY from HBCU's? And Panth, I do think you're just a little off base on this one.

However, as you've noted, FAMU has done a great job recruiting players of other races...we want to recruit the best players and this new coaching staff is working hard at doing that.

[813Jag]

I think its the mindset of the coaches (both college and high school), I don't see many of these coaches beating the bushes to find kids. Coach Cador (Southern's baseball coach) has great connections/relationships around the state. He's had great pitchers and position players that were white. I thought Southern was moving in that direction in football years back, but it didn't catch.

But I do have to say at least in Baton Rouge, lots of kids don't even know Southern exists. But that's another topic for another time.

[BluBengal07]

JSU has been expanding their faces on the field, and not only in typical positions. it's still spotty, of course, but with its proven success, it should grow.
*we don't even know who we picked it for 2013 officially with transfers but we'll see.

i guess it goes in so many different excuses, but it's boils down to the coaches and parents in major groups.

[Panther88]

LOL xsmhx

[coover]

I think the real question here is how to get students of all races to attend the schools now known as "HBSC"? Integration within these schools would solve the de facto segregation problem of the athletic teams on those campuses.

Most HBSC are PUBLIC Colleges/Universities and are supported in part by the various States that they are within. Perhaps the State Legislators in those States could find a way to encourage students of all races to attend these schools. Perhaps they could lower the cost of tuition at the HBSC schools to a point that would make it advantageous to attend there rather than the more pricey campuses that already have a diverse population.

[WileECoyote06]

I think the real question here is how to get students of all races to attend the schools now known as "HBSC"? Integration within these schools would solve the de facto segregation problem of the athletic teams on those campuses.

Most HBSC are PUBLIC Colleges/Universities and are supported in part by the various States that they are within. Perhaps the State Legislators in those States could find a way to encourage students of all races to attend these schools. Perhaps they could lower the cost of tuition at the HBSC schools to a point that would make it advantageous to attend there rather than the more pricey campuses that already have a diverse population.

Many of the publicly supported HBCUs already have lower tuition and fees than their state flagships and other counterparts. However, I see your point and it's a good one.

Now on to the larger picture, and it's much deeper than just recruiting and or seeking integration. There are stark differences in the way that minorities are socialized. In other words, it's much easier for minorities to adapt to and integrate into majority culture than the other way around. Minorities students, especially college-bound ones, are already used to the feelings of marginalization and isolation that sometimes shape our experience. White students, many times cannot make that adjustment; and often transfer even when they are on full scholarships.

And that's the nice way of putting things. There are other factors in play, particularly in the south including:
1) Feelings of entitlement
2) Refusal to attend 'the black school'
3) Shame that goes with attending black schools ie lack of parental support
4) Lack of HBCU graduates in the high school coaching ranks
5) US News and World Report college rankings and their influence; ie black colleges are 'last-resort' schools
6) Lack of HBCU graduates in the high school counseling ranks, especially in rural areas
7) Family legacy or lack of familial connections; ie my parents went to UNC/UGA/UT/UF
8) Perceptions of the neighborhoods in which many HBCUs reside ie, the black neighborhood
9) Many HBCUs lack competent public relations departments (ie Media Savvy)
10) Apathy towards any other school other than BCS ones

It's just not that simple. Tennessee State has been integrated for decades now and have two conference football championships (and two BCF championships) to show since they were merged with UT-Nashville. By the way, HBCUs can be successful in football and basketball. At the division 2 and NAIA level. Many of the Division I HBCUs aren't funding Division I programs and need to move back. I understand that conference membership is also about institutional peers and exposure so I understand why we stay. But FCS is a weird subdivision anyway. State flagship, research intensive schools are in the same conferences with former teacher colleges. Strange bedfellows.

[OhioHen]

In many ways, what it comes down to is that the emphasis with regard to HBCUs is on the B and not on the H.

What we see - Historically BLACK Colleges and Universities
What we SHOULD see - HISTORICALLY Black Colleges and Universities

Until this changes, Panther88's lament will remain all too relevant.

[813Jag]

It's a simple issue that doesn't have a simple solution. I can only speak for my school, I know that Southern gets out to schools to recruit students (I also know that the Dallas chapter of the Alumni association does as well) but I think it's gonna take a culture/attitude change to make non-black kids want to attend/play football at HBCUs.

[fc97]

Many of the publicly supported HBCUs already have lower tuition and fees than their state flagships and other counterparts. However, I see your point and it's a good one.

Now on to the larger picture, and it's much deeper than just recruiting and or seeking integration. There are stark differences in the way that minorities are socialized. In other words, it's much easier for minorities to adapt to and integrate into majority culture than the other way around. Minorities students, especially college-bound ones, are already used to the feelings of marginalization and isolation that sometimes shape our experience. White students, many times cannot make that adjustment; and often transfer even when they are on full scholarships.

And that's the nice way of putting things. There are other factors in play, particularly in the south including:
1) Feelings of entitlement
2) Refusal to attend 'the black school'
3) Shame that goes with attending black schools ie lack of parental support
4) Lack of HBCU graduates in the high school coaching ranks
5) US News and World Report college rankings and their influence; ie black colleges are 'last-resort' schools
6) Lack of HBCU graduates in the high school counseling ranks, especially in rural areas
7) Family legacy or lack of familial connections; ie my parents went to UNC/UGA/UT/UF
8) Perceptions of the neighborhoods in which many HBCUs reside ie, the black neighborhood
9) Many HBCUs lack competent public relations departments (ie Media Savvy)
10) Apathy towards any other school other than BCS ones

It's just not that simple. Tennessee State has been integrated for decades now and have two conference football championships (and two BCF championships) to show since they were merged with UT-Nashville. By the way, HBCUs can be successful in football and basketball. At the division 2 and NAIA level. Many of the Division I HBCUs aren't funding Division I programs and need to move back. I understand that conference membership is also about institutional peers and exposure so I understand why we stay. But FCS is a weird subdivision anyway. State flagship, research intensive schools are in the same conferences with former teacher colleges. Strange bedfellows.

it isnt that simple. coming out of high school i was offered full marching band scholarships to a&t, wssu and nc central. after going and visiting, it was made clear that i was never going to be welcome into that experience as a white kid. this isn't the 60s anymore, most parents wouldn't have a problem with their kid going to an hbcu. sure you can make examples of parents that wouldt be, but I can find you examples of asian, latino and other race/sub-cultures that wouldn't be happy with their kids going to any number of places. back to my experience, i can tell you that it was made more than clear that a white kid was not going to be welcome into the program except by the band directors, something i didn't see minority kids going through at all at the other integrated schools. ever seen the movie drum line?

another example is that of black kids in my neighborhood that chose to go to hbcus. they all transferred after being beaten up numerous times for being "too white". i'll never forget what the neighbors daughter said they said to her as she was beaten up by 10 other girls "talk like a white girl, walk like a white girl, get you ass beat like a white girl"

its more than just perception above, there is a culture of allowed racism that goes unchecked these days.

none of what i say is going to be popular, but, many things like this aren't anymore.

[WileECoyote06]

it isnt that simple. coming out of high school i was offered full marching band scholarships to a&t, wssu and nc central. after going and visiting, it was made clear that i was never going to be welcome into that experience as a white kid. this isn't the 60s anymore, most parents wouldn't have a problem with their kid going to an hbcu, sure you can make examples of parents that wouldn't be, but I can find you examples of asian, latino and other race/sub-cultures that wouldn't be happy with their kids going to a number of places. but back to my experience, i can tell you that it was made more than clear that a white kid was not going to be welcome into the program except by the band directors, something i didn't see minority kids going through at all at the other integrated schools.

another example is that of black kids in my neighborhood that chose to go to hbcus. they all transferred after being beaten up numerous times for being "too white". i'll never forget what the neighbors daughter said they said to her as she was beaten up by 10 other girls "talk like a white girl, walk like a white girl, get you ass beat like a white girl"

its more than just perception above, there is a culture of allowed racism that goes unchecked these days.

none of what i say is going to be popular, but, many things like this aren't anymore.

Those feelings of marginalization and isolation that you experienced while being recruited as a white kid for an HBCU are what minorities often endure at many PWIs. So while you decided not to attend, (and I wouldn't have either), many of minorities choose to attend PWIs and endure those types of indignities. You didn't notice it at other integrated schools because many minority kids are already conditioned to endure/thrive in that environment. Also, PWIs go out of their way to embrace diversity at the administrative level, often having vice-presidents of diversity or similar positions driving diversity initiatives. HBCUs admittedly do not usually have this type of commitment; however it leads to a much more organic and less-forced experience. In other words, students are truly treated as equals, with no Black/Asian/Latino/etc Student Union. Ironic, is it not?

You're correct that times have changed drastically, and in the past ten years we've seen white drum majors, white quarterbacks, white newspaper editors, white presidents of the local chapter of the NAACP, and white valedictorians at HBCUs. Also HBCUs are successfully recruiting Latino students, many of which are first-generation college students. And most public HBCUs don't have a problem recruiting white students for their graduate programs. Go figure.

As far as the black kids in your neighborhood who was beaten up by students for 'acting white'. Many of the black students at FCS HBCUs come from working class to upper class homes and have similar experiences and thus wouldn't face that type of violent response. Something is definitely missing from that story. But I'll have to take your word on it.

[bluehenbillk]

I don't know if this is off-topic but I personally think it's "backward thinking" on the SWAC's part that they don't associate themselves with the playoff system. But, I guess they're happy with the deal they get w/ NBC on the Grambling-Southern game...

[PAllen]

Many of the publicly supported HBCUs already have lower tuition and fees than their state flagships and other counterparts. However, I see your point and it's a good one.

Now on to the larger picture, and it's much deeper than just recruiting and or seeking integration. There are stark differences in the way that minorities are socialized. In other words, it's much easier for minorities to adapt to and integrate into majority culture than the other way around. Minorities students, especially college-bound ones, are already used to the feelings of marginalization and isolation that sometimes shape our experience. White students, many times cannot make that adjustment; and often transfer even when they are on full scholarships.

And that's the nice way of putting things. There are other factors in play, particularly in the south including:
1) Feelings of entitlement
2) Refusal to attend 'the black school'
3) Shame that goes with attending black schools ie lack of parental support
4) Lack of HBCU graduates in the high school coaching ranks
5) US News and World Report college rankings and their influence; ie black colleges are 'last-resort' schools
6) Lack of HBCU graduates in the high school counseling ranks, especially in rural areas
7) Family legacy or lack of familial connections; ie my parents went to UNC/UGA/UT/UF
8) Perceptions of the neighborhoods in which many HBCUs reside ie, the black neighborhood
9) Many HBCUs lack competent public relations departments (ie Media Savvy)
10) Apathy towards any other school other than BCS ones

It's just not that simple. Tennessee State has been integrated for decades now and have two conference football championships (and two BCF championships) to show since they were merged with UT-Nashville. By the way, HBCUs can be successful in football and basketball. At the division 2 and NAIA level. Many of the Division I HBCUs aren't funding Division I programs and need to move back. I understand that conference membership is also about institutional peers and exposure so I understand why we stay. But FCS is a weird subdivision anyway. State flagship, research intensive schools are in the same conferences with former teacher colleges. Strange bedfellows.

Really? Racist much?

Us white folks are more than capable of adapting to being the minority in an environment. The problem is that most HBCUs stand up and proclaim their "blackness" more than anything else including their academics. It's not just white people who don't attend, there aren't a lot of hispanics or asians (eastern or southern) on their campuses either. Why are HBCUs not more integrated? Because they have no desire to be and broadcast that loud and clear. Why would a muslim, jew, sikh, or buddhist go to a small christian college that espouses "christian principals"?

[PAllen]

Those feelings of marginalization and isolation that you experienced while being recruited as a white kid for an HBCU are what minorities often endure at many PWIs. So while you decided not to attend, (and I wouldn't have either), many of minorities choose to attend PWIs and endure those types of indignities. You didn't notice it at other integrated schools because many minority kids are already conditioned to endure/thrive in that environment. Also, PWIs go out of their way to embrace diversity at the administrative level, often having vice-presidents of diversity or similar positions driving diversity initiatives. HBCUs admittedly do not usually have this type of commitment; however it leads to a much more organic and less-forced experience. In other words, students are truly treated as equals, with no Black/Asian/Latino/etc Student Union. Ironic, is it not?

You're correct that times have changed drastically, and in the past ten years we've seen white drum majors, white quarterbacks, white newspaper editors, white presidents of the local chapter of the NAACP, and white valedictorians at HBCUs. Also HBCUs are successfully recruiting Latino students, many of which are first-generation college students. And most public HBCUs don't have a problem recruiting white students for their graduate programs. Go figure.

As far as the black kids in your neighborhood who was beaten up by students for 'acting white'. Many of the black students at FCS HBCUs come from working class to upper class homes and have similar experiences and thus wouldn't face that type of violent response. Something is definitely missing from that story. But I'll have to take your word on it.

Bull Crap. When a bunch of white kids beat someone up for not being "white enough" or "acting black" they get brought up on federal charges. Unfortunately the reverse is not true in today's environment. BTW, there are racially segregated "student unions" at Howard, but no caucasian or white student union. Yeah, ironic.

[Panther88]

Really? Racist much?

Us white folks are more than capable of adapting to being the minority in an environment. The problem is that most HBCUs stand up and proclaim their "blackness" more than anything else including their academics. It's not just white people who don't attend, there aren't a lot of hispanics or asians (eastern or southern) on their campuses either. Why are HBCUs not more integrated? Because they have no desire to be and broadcast that loud and clear. Why would a muslim, jew, sikh, or buddhist go to a small christian college that espouses "christian principals"?

It is quite racist, PAllen. And thank you for pointing it out. Great response. Some viewing will more than naught label me a "sellout" for agreeing w/ your great resposne, and I reall don't give an iota. The truth is the truth regardless of where it originates.

It's a prevailing mindset among some non-objective blacks that they cannot be, verbally state, or foster thoughts that are quite racist. You hear the term "reverse racism" being thrown around. I call bull on that term. Racist is racist, regardless of where it originates (what ethnicity).

HBCUs, for the most part, have not implemented any type of plan for outreach to join mainstream america while they continue to foster the same ideology under which they were expressly created. There is zero excuse for the status quo. I matriculated in diversification, not segregation.

[Panther88]

Bull Crap. When a bunch of white kids beat someone up for not being "white enough" or "acting black" they get brought up on federal charges. Unfortunately the reverse is not true in today's environment. BTW, there are racially segregated "student unions" at Howard, but no caucasian or white student union. Yeah, ironic .

Speak w/ facts. True. Where's the clapping hand smiley? xthumbsupx

[Panther88]

I don't know if this is off-topic but I personally think it's "backward thinking" on the SWAC's part that they don't associate themselves with the playoff system. But, I guess they're happy with the deal they get w/ NBC on the Grambling-Southern game...

Because they are fostering segregation bluehen. xsmhx Just a pitiful bunch of people, imho, and no greater than those segregationists of the pre-70s at univ of alabama, lsu, ole miss, miss st, georgia, et al. xsmhx

I never EVER desired to attend PVAMU because it was an "HBCU." I attended PVAMU because I wanted to attend a university that had a major I desired. If I'd known that they fostered segregation and non-inclusion, I would've easily found myself and my all-texas academic schol @ aTm-B/CS or SHSU since I'd already been accepted to each. xsmhx What a backwards people most are to foster this type mindset in the new millenia.

[813Jag]

I don't know if this is off-topic but I personally think it's "backward thinking" on the SWAC's part that they don't associate themselves with the playoff system. But, I guess they're happy with the deal they get w/ NBC on the Grambling-Southern game...
The Bayou Classic hasn't stopped anybody but Southern and Grambling from going to the playoffs. In 1999 when the (inept) commishioner decided to have a championship game is what stopped the other 7 SWAC teams from going to the playoffs. Those teams even end their seasons on the same date that the rest of the FCS does. The money from the Classic goes to Southern and Grambling.

[WileECoyote06]

Really? Racist much?

Us white folks are more than capable of adapting to being the minority in an environment. The problem is that most HBCUs stand up and proclaim their "blackness" more than anything else including their academics. It's not just white people who don't attend, there aren't a lot of hispanics or asians (eastern or southern) on their campuses either. Why are HBCUs not more integrated? Because they have no desire to be and broadcast that loud and clear. Why would a muslim, jew, sikh, or buddhist go to a small christian college that espouses "christian principals"?

I'll ignore your beginning comment 'racist much' since that certainly wasn't my intent to portray myself in that manner. I was responding to the thread with my opinion in hopes that it would shed light on some of the sentiments attached to this 'problem'. I also made sure to include the words 'many'; and 'most' for accuracy. If you disagree, then fine; but it doesn't make my opinion invalid. I work in higher education and have been a recruiter, so I've seen some of these things first hand.

Why shouldn't HBCUs parrot the fact that they have historically served black students? And that they served them during a time when other colleges wouldn't do it? It's a source of pride and of purpose.

HBCUs don't do a good job of recruiting Asian students, and I'm not quite sure why. I agree with you on that point. But most public HBCUs are ramping up their recruitment of Latino students.

[WileECoyote06]

Bull Crap. When a bunch of white kids beat someone up for not being "white enough" or "acting black" they get brought up on federal charges. Unfortunately the reverse is not true in today's environment. BTW, there are racially segregated "student unions" at Howard, but no caucasian or white student union. Yeah, ironic.

Thanks for the correction concerning Howard. Perhaps the white students at Howard should push to get one started.

Now for your previous statements, I don't agree with the concept of 'hate crimes' either. So there you go. Not sure that it fits the previously mentioned narrative though.

Why are you using such strong language? It's a beautiful Thursday morning. Calm down.

[WileECoyote06]

Because they are fostering segregation bluehen. xsmhx Just a pitiful bunch of people, imho, and no greater than those segregationists of the pre-70s at univ of alabama, lsu, ole miss, miss st, georgia, et al. xsmhx

I never EVER desired to attend PVAMU because it was an "HBCU." I attended PVAMU because I wanted to attend a university that had a major I desired. If I'd known that they fostered segregation and non-inclusion, I would've easily found myself and my all-texas academic schol @ aTm-B/CS or SHSU since I'd already been accepted to each. xsmhx What a backwards people most are to foster this type mindset in the new millenia.

Not all HBCUs are the same. We have a common moniker (federally designated); but we each have different missions, different levels of integration, and different communities to serve.

Finally, I think you may be confusing integration with cultural assimilation. They seem like similar concepts, but they are not.

[Panther88]

Not all HBCUs are the same. We have a common moniker (federally designated); but we each have different missions, different levels of integration, and different communities to serve.

Finally, I think you may be confusing integration with cultural assimilation. They seem like similar concepts, but they are not.

I'm quite familiar w/ cultural assimilation and also what integration entails.

Let me be specific and non-general, what I see @ Praririe View A&M University is nothing short of segregation of its football playing field and basketball court as well. Please, don't bring up baseball/softball/soccer mixes. xsmhx There is no outreach and if there is, it's non-transparent to the outside world and guess who else is in the outside world? Right.

:-/

[Panther88]

1000 views but hardly any comments :(. What gives?

I was hoping everyone if not most would chime in. We're all educated adults w/ differing backgrounds so input is desired. That is the only way that understanding can occur from either side of the position.

[Herder]

The historical importance of HBCUs should never be lost or downplayed . . . it should be celebrated and remembered. However, in 2013, it would seem that the "HBCU" Moniker should be in a display case somewhere instead of prominently displayed in front of the school names with every mention. What positive impact does this moniker accomplish in 2013? While not intended to do so, it forges segregation thinking.

As for the lesser important area, athletics . . . woundn't it be great to see all FCS conferences pursuing the same championship goals. Would being a part of the Divisioin I FB Championship help to get the best athletes to these schools? I would think so. If I were on the FCS Championship Committee, I would not stop until the SWAC was an integral part of the championship. If the Ncaa were needed to offset revenue (from current classics) for a few years to make it happen, I would try to work a deal. Heck with 24 teams, guarantee them 2 spots and a home game each year . . . send an OVC team there. :)

On a recent business trip, I sat by a Dartmouth grad and former FB player (now law department at B1G school) on the plane and talked Ivy League sports the whole time. In the end, he defended the Ivy's position on post season participation in FB. After listening to that BS, I just said, why don't you pull out of the post season for other sports too then, and asked him, why you would do that to your student athletetes, not letting them compete against the best. I got a well ahhh, well . . . AFter listening to him, I told him that I attended the last two FCS championship games, and he knows not of which he speaks in saying that it's not important, and not part of the Ivy mission.

[813Jag]

The historical importance of HBCUs should never be lost or downplayed . . . it should be celebrated and remembered. However, in 2013, it would seem that the "HBCU" Moniker should be in a display case somewhere instead of prominently displayed in front of the school names with every mention. What positive impact does this moniker accomplish in 2013? While not intended to do so, it forges segregation thinking.

As for the lesser important area, athletics . . . woundn't it be great to see all FCS conferences pursuing the same championship goals. Would being a part of the Divisioin I FB Championship help to get the best athletes to these schools? I would think so. If I were on the FCS Championship Committee, I would not stop until the SWAC was an integral part of the championship. If the Ncaa were needed to offset revenue (from current classics) for a few years to make it happen, I would try to work a deal.
All it takes is for our "leaders" to remove their heads from their asses and get rid of the championship game. Which should have been done away with when the nine game mandate was introduced (which should be gone as well)

[WileECoyote06]

The historical importance of HBCUs should never be lost or downplayed . . . it should be celebrated and remembered. However, in 2013, it would seem that the "HBCU" Moniker should be in a display case somewhere instead of prominently displayed in front of the school names with every mention. What positive impact does this moniker accomplish in 2013? While not intended to do so, it forges segregation thinking.

As for the lesser important area, athletics . . . woundn't it be great to see all FCS conferences pursuing the same championship goals. Would being a part of the Divisioin I FB Championship help to get the best athletes to these schools? I would think so. If I were on the FCS Championship Committee, I would not stop until the SWAC was an integral part of the championship. If the Ncaa were needed to offset revenue (from current classics) for a few years to make it happen, I would try to work a deal.

The question is it forges thoughts of segregation on whose part? I don't think HBCUs can run from that moniker anymore than Notre Dame can run from being Catholic. Or that Liberty can run from being Jerry Falwell's school. It is an intrinsic part of our make-up.

I agree that the SWAC AND the Ivy League need to join the FCS playoffs. The SWAC talent level has decreased markedly since they decided to host their own championship game, IMHO.

[Herder]

The question is it forges thoughts of segregation on whose part? I don't think HBCUs can run from that moniker anymore than Notre Dame can run from being Catholic. Or that Liberty can run from being Jerry Falwell's school. It is an intrinsic part of our make-up.

I agree that the SWAC AND the Ivy League need to join the FCS playoffs. The SWAC talent level has decreased markedly since they decided to host their own championship game, IMHO.

I am just one person, with one opinion (and I'm white). HBCU probably means something different to everyone, but to some the emphasis (like another poster said) is on the B instead of the H. Does this moniker need to be prominent for these schools to thrive? I certainly hope not.

It would be my hope in 2013 that universities with a majority black population are inviting to students of other races, and that universities with a majority white population are inviting to black students and other races. That takes effort, marketing, programs, etc. Certainly there are templates out there to be copied across America to promote improvement in this area.

[Herder]

The question is it forges thoughts of segregation on whose part? I don't think HBCUs can run from that moniker anymore than Notre Dame can run from being Catholic. Or that Liberty can run from being Jerry Falwell's school. It is an intrinsic part of our make-up.

I agree that the SWAC AND the Ivy League need to join the FCS playoffs. The SWAC talent level has decreased markedly since they decided to host their own championship game, IMHO.

Based on this thread, most. It promotes segregation thinking with most, including the people within HBCUs, and leaders at HBCUs according to some opinions expressed here. Panther88's original query is central to this question, and he is suggesting that it's internal as much as external.

[Sly Fox]

I'm enjoying the discussion. Although I admit the insertion of my Liberty Flames into the conversation caught me off-guard.

At least here in Houston, the explosion of community college enrollment might have had a significant impact on PVU & TSU. LSC & HCC have eroded away at the traditional 4-year experience that might have led to more integration on both campuses.

[WileECoyote06]

Based on this thread, most. It promotes segregation thinking with most, including the people within HBCUs, and leaders at HBCUs according to some opinions expressed here. Panther88's original query is central to this question, and he is suggesting that it's internal as much as external.

Well I'm here to assure you: FCS HBCUs recruit non-black kids for all sports and for academics. Getting them to enroll, well some are better at that than others. It becomes even more difficult the deeper into the south that one goes. Unlike high school, you cannot force students to integrate at the college level. Clarence Thomas, makes outstanding and reasoned arguments for historically black colleges and that they should not be dismantled or penalized during the 'post-racial' era.

Panther88 had no problem calling me racist, when I didn't say anything offensive, so it's difficult to gauge his sincerity in posting the question in the first place.

[WileECoyote06]

I'm enjoying the discussion. Although I admit the insertion of my Liberty Flames into the conversation caught me off-guard.

At least here in Houston, the explosion of community college enrollment might have had a significant impact on PVU & TSU. LSC & HCC have eroded away at the traditional 4-year experience that might have led to more integration on both campuses.

Something told me to follow that comment up, and I didn't mean it as a slight at all. I just used the affiliation with Jerry Falwell as a reference. Either way it's certainly not stopping you all. Liberty has over 100,000 students, and it won't be long before you all are in FBS.

Community college enrollment should not be a threat to their enrollment in theory, but it probably is.

[813Jag]

I'm enjoying the discussion. Although I admit the insertion of my Liberty Flames into the conversation caught me off-guard.

At least here in Houston, the explosion of community college enrollment might have had a significant impact on PVU & TSU. LSC & HCC have eroded away at the traditional 4-year experience that might have led to more integration on both campuses.
Same thing happened in Baton Rouge, BRCC was a blip on the radar when the school opened. I think around 2003-2004 the school really started to grow, then they added baseball and basketball. I think the enrollment is about 7,000 which puts it on par with Southern.

[Panther88]

Panther88 had no problem calling me racist

Where? I'll wait for you to post where I said "WileECoyote06 is racist." xthumbsupx

I'll wait. :)

[813Jag]

Something told me to follow that comment up, and I didn't mean it as a slight at all. I just used the affiliation with Jerry Falwell as a reference. Either way it's certainly not stopping you all. Liberty has over 100,000 students, and it won't be long before you all are in FBS.

Community college enrollment should not be a threat to their enrollment in theory, but it probably is.
You would think that a kid would go there and then to a four year school. At least in Baton Rouge, to some kids the pecking order is LSU, BRCC, Southern.

[WileECoyote06]

Where? I'll wait for you to post where I said "WileECoyote06 is racist." xthumbsupx

I'll wait. :)

Of course you didn't say 'WileECoyote06 is racist'. You did say this, my comment was racist however agreeing with PAllen:


It is quite racist, PAllen. And thank you for pointing it out. Great response. Some viewing will more than naught label me a "sellout" for agreeing w/ your great resposne, and I reall don't give an iota. The truth is the truth regardless of where it originates.

It's a prevailing mindset among some non-objective blacks that they cannot be, verbally state, or foster thoughts that are quite racist. You hear the term "reverse racism" being thrown around. I call bull on that term. Racist is racist, regardless of where it originates (what ethnicity).

I agree that there is no 'reverse-racism'; there is only racism. However, I maintain that I didn't say anything racist. There was nothing in my comments that indicated that I believe that blacks are superior to anyone else; nor was there anything in my comments that implied that blacks have a method to keep non- blacks from enrolling at HBCUs (both common and the academic definitions of racism). So if I feel like I've been insulted by you (and by PAllen) then I'd say I have a pretty good reason to be.

[Panther88]

There are stark differences in the way that minorities are socialized. In other words, it's much easier for minorities to adapt to and integrate into majority culture than the other way around. Minorities students, especially college-bound ones, are already used to the feelings of marginalization and isolation that sometimes shape our experience. White students, many times cannot make that adjustment; and often transfer even when they are on full scholarships.


Discern those statements ^^^^^^^^^. Mind you, you're speaking w/ someone who grew up in diversification and prefers diversification.

[WileECoyote06]

Discern those statements ^^^^^^^^^. Mind you, you're speaking w/ someone who grew up in diversification and prefers diversification.

It's my opinion, based on what I've noticed in over a decade of working in higher education. Also from regularly recruiting white, Latino and Asian students from among the Honors program participants for my HCASC (quiz bowl) team. Admittedly, the comment about them transferring is more an observation on my part. But it wasn't a racist statement at all.

But even past my own personal experiences, the feelings of isolation that minorities experience at either PWIs or as minority at an HBCU are well documented. Inside Higher Ed, JBE, the Chronicle and other mainstream media outlets often run stories highlighting this phenomenon. Please feel free to google at your leisure.

You're not the only one who 'grew up in a diverse community'. I'm from a military town and spent part of my childhood overseas.

[3rd Coast Tiger]

Black colleges adapt to changing demographics
Education
Tradition changing at black colleges
By Jeannie Kever | October 1, 2009

As a white student at a school that has traditionally served African-Americans, Miles Stiles said there is no mystery to why he enrolled at Texas Southern University.

“It was close. It was inexpensive,” he said. “It was a practical decision.”

Race, he said, “wasn't a huge issue for me.”

Along with other historically black universities around the country, TSU is becoming more diverse, both by design — President John Rudley is aggressively recruiting Latino high school students — and as a reflection of the changing communities around them.

And like Stiles, a third-year law student at TSU, Rudley and other leaders of the schools are driven by practicality. Failure to tap into the state's shifting demographics could cause their enrollments to plummet.

“If we want to stay alive, we have to go where the market is going,” said Dwayne Ashley, president and chief executive officer of the Thurgood Marshall College Fund.

The fund recently reported that enrollment of nonblack students of color has grown 64 percent over the past 20 years at its member schools, which include TSU and Prairie View A&M University.

Most of the schools are still predominantly African-American, but the percentages of Hispanic and Asian students, especially, are rising rapidly. Within certain programs, the balance already has shifted.

About 85 percent of TSU's overall enrollment is African-American, but that drops to 54 percent in the law school and 43 percent in the pharmacy program.



http://www.chron.com/default/article/Black-colleges-adapt-to-changing-demographics-1739478.php




http://ww4.hdnux.com/photos/21/02/66/4468139/3/628x471.jpg

Next to pictures of Texas Southern University alumni Mickey Leland and Barbara Jordan in Hannah Hall,
current Texas Southern University students, from left, Cheyney Abbott, 32, junior, studying aviation science,
Kassandra Rivera, 19, a junior studying biology and Jimmy Nguyen, 22, a first year pharmacy school student,
attend the historically African American school Tuesday, March 26, 2013, in Houston African American colleges
and Universities are growing more diverse. Both Prairie View A&M and Texas Southern University have seen an
increase in the number non-black students on campus. The schools are recruiting Hispanics, Asians and white
students to bolster enrollment and state funding. Photo: Johnny Hanson, Houston Chronicle

*****************

[Panther88]

Integrating the playing fields @ division-I FCS HBCUs. Why are they still mostly segregated up to the fall 2012 campaign? I say mostly because we see onesies and twosies here or there @ specific schools in specific positions (kicker, punter, and LS ) ALTHOUGH the Norfolk States and FAMUs of the world are certainly doing what is right w/ regards to recruiting the best possible student-athlete, regardless of ethnicity.


xsmhx

[3rd Coast Tiger]

http://athletics.tsu.edu/images/2013/3/20/medium_Rivera_pose.JPG
Houston, TX-Texas Southern University has a gem in Kassandra Rivera. The sophomore golfer from the Valley has been ranked as high as 6th in the nation among NCAA Division I female golfers.

She's the highest ranked golfer in TSU history and likely among females who play at HBCU's.

Rivera is also an excellent student. She's a junior Biology major with a 3.89 GPA.

Rivera will be feature on Houston's KTRK-TV, Channel 13 this week. Sports reporter David Nuno will tell Rivera's story on Wednesday, March 20th in the 6:00pm sports segment.

http://athletics.tsu.edu/news/2013/3/20/WGOLF_0320130953.aspx?path=wgolf




Texas Southern Tiger Lady Golf Team
http://athletics.tsu.edu/images/2013/1/31/medium_Golf%20women%20team%202013.JPG
Briana Trevino, Kassandra Rivera, Carmen Gonzales, Angela Rafac, Adriana Trevino, Georgette Rolle (asst. coach)

[Panther88]

Maybe I should've literally typed the word "gridiron" in my assertion for clarity. xlolx But, I thought since I posted this in an "FCS Discussion" forum that it was a given that nothing but football is spoken of here. xsmhx

Golf, tennis, baseball, softball. No. FOOTBALL.

[Go...gate]

I don't know if this is off-topic but I personally think it's "backward thinking" on the SWAC's part that they don't associate themselves with the playoff system. But, I guess they're happy with the deal they get w/ NBC on the Grambling-Southern game...

Could not agree more.

[3rd Coast Tiger]

Maybe I should've literally typed the word "gridiron" in my assertion for clarity. xlolx But, I thought since I posted this in an "FCS Discussion" forum that it was a given that nothing but football is spoken of here. xsmhx

Golf, tennis, baseball, softball. No. FOOTBALL.

Probably should have given that replies #16, 18, 20, 23, 24, 34, etc... all deviated away from the initial premise of the genesis of your thread "FCS DISCUSSION" as opposed to pointing it out at such a later time after say reply #50?

[Panther88]

Probably should have given that replies #16, 18, 20, 23, 24, 34, etc... all deviated away from the initial premise of the genesis of your thread "FCS DISCUSSION" as opposed to pointing it out at such a later time after say reply #50?

Yeh, I thought it leaked a little bit but in the recruiting scheme for gridiron play @ the d-I fcs level. Overall popul recruitment/environment/and retention are relating the gridiron issue, true enough.

But I will not divert from my initial assertion and it is a real issue. :)

[3rd Coast Tiger]

Could not agree more.

I think the point of concern should not be directed at the Southwestern Athletic Conference per se when it comes to Grambling State and Southern playing their annual game Thanksgiving weekend on the NBC network. Remember on many occassions, the SWAC Commissioner (Duer Sharpe) has reiterated that he is "an employee of the presidents".

However from a financial perspective, both institutions look at reaping the financial rewards of revenue from that contest that outweigh the opportunity of playing in the FCS playoffs based soley on the terms. Does the annual Bayou Classic bring national attention in terms of marketing, promotion, recruiting, etc... to their football program? University as a whole?

In essence, their Bayou Classic satisfies what their bottom line is: "Net Income"

[Ivytalk]

I just went through Delaware State's football photo roster on the team website, and there were two pictured white players: both OL. One Asian-American, also. As the student bodies of HBCUs gradually become more diverse, as other posters have pointed out, I think FB rosters will follow suit.xtwocentsx

[3rd Coast Tiger]

As the student bodies of HBCUs gradually become more diverse, as other posters have pointed out, I think FB rosters will follow suit.xtwocentsx

Exactly.


And while we're on the subject of HBCU's, I'd like to give my alma mater a little "pub". According to MastersDegreesOnline.org (some say the wave of the future of secondary education), Texas Southern is ranked within "Top Graduate Education Schools"...


Texas Southern University offers Master’s and Doctoral level degrees in Education. Master’s degrees are offered in Counseling, Educational Administration and Curriculum and Instruction. Doctoral degrees are offered in Counselor Education, Educational Administration and Curriculum and Instruction.

http://www.mastersdegreeonline.org/the-best-education-graduate-schools/

With that said, I'd like to take this opportunity to recruit "all" regardless of your gender, race, creed or color to Texas Southern University! xthumbsupx

[Big Dawg]

Why are HBCUs not more integrated? Because they have no desire to be and broadcast that loud and clear.

Bull

[frozennorth]

i love that the mouth-breathing op confuses whites not wanting to go there with hbcu's not wanting the white kids.

[WestCoastAggie]

As a fan of diversity, parts of me does not want my HBCU to begin to have an experience for students similar to the other predominately white institutions in the state. That HBCU experience is rather unique and I enjoyed it very much. It is an attachment that influences my support in the school.

I support A&T financially more so than I do my Graduate School Murray State.

[BluBengal07]

each is HBCU is the same, but still very different. I did undergrad at Jackson State, so i'll talk Jackson State (mostly).

JSU is aggressive taking the diversity stigmas in it increasing international programs and local visibilities. with record number enrollment is the recent semesters, JSU is becoming more of a pioneer. JSU yearly celebrates the international bodies in the university to acknowledge cultures, history and spirit. http://www.jsums.edu/intweek/

Also, JSU just stated a satellite location in a predominately white city outside Jackson. JSU focus was to bring a more affordable, quality education for the growing working class in a fast growing city. http://www.jsumsnews.com/?p=6711. Now, there is also a diversity to this too, http://diverseeducation.com/article/50888/#. however, there was a good amount of backlash, even from the major of that city, with JSU creating a site there. however, JSU did it's part with the right approvals from up top to get things done and approved. then the mayor tries to make it sound like her focus was not race, but that we just supports an out-of-state university in her city more.

folks shouldn't put HBCUs in a box, if for the unaware, it's easy to do so. this is a strong discussion, but it's more of a can of worms than an elephant in the room. this is something each HBCU needs to conquer their own way that fits their mission and vision. if this is not apart of their vision as an institution, that's them and their future.


anyways Pather88, this thread started as a football focus(my first post) and now an institutional discussion (this second post).

[Panther88]

Thread started out great and w/ great promise but it was steered into the borderline food-tv zone lol.

Sorry, non-black people who desired to have input but now cannot. xsmhx

[WileECoyote06]

Thread started out great and w/ great promise but it was steered into the borderline food-tv zone lol.

Sorry, non-black people who desired to have input but now cannot. xsmhx

What's stopping them from commenting? The only person who has been called a name in here is me.

[Panther88]

What's stopping them from commenting? The only person who has been called a name in here is me.

Please. No one called you a name WileE. xsmhx Let it rest man. xsmhx

[WileECoyote06]

Why should I? PAllen claimed I said something racist and you agreed with them. Pointing out why my comments were justified, you nor PAllen attempted to apologize. Wouldn't matter much now either way, but I'm still going to speak on it.

Now go help your school recruit some non-black football players. We've got quite a few up here at NCCU.

[Panther88]

lol@"go help your school recruit." That's pretty stupid, isn't it? Someone is being paid a salary to recruit, not me.

*waving vehemently* xlolx

[BluBengal07]

lol@"go help your school recruit." That's pretty stupid, isn't it? Someone is being paid a salary to recruit, not me.

*waving vehemently* xlolx

well actually....it's not stupid. every bit helps. if you can make the difference in one kids life in their perception of PV education/football. that will be a monument of progress. that's another problem, "it's not my job". since i was a bandsmen, i've talked to high school musicians (here and there, informally) about the HBCU experience of playing and it benefits. just informing and creating a level of interest can make a difference.

come on, PV needs all the help it can get anyways, but i'll save the PV smack for another forum. lol.

[PAllen]

Why should I? PAllen claimed I said something racist and you agreed with them. Pointing out why my comments were justified, you nor PAllen attempted to apologize. Wouldn't matter much now either way, but I'm still going to speak on it.

Now go help your school recruit some non-black football players. We've got quite a few up here at NCCU.

No reason to apologize. Your initial comments were racist. Directed at white people, but racist all the same. As for the other comments I called you out on? They were factually incorrect, and I presented the facts that show them to be so. Don't like being labelled a racist? Don't attempt to label a particular race as inherently intellectually incapable of handling a situation.

Now, as for the football side of this? Most (I can't speak for all) HBCUs don't reach out to non-black students as much as most "primarily white" schools have done for decades. At most non-HBCUs, the welcome mat is rolled out to minority students in an active attempt to recruit them with all sorts of special programs. Again, not so at most HBCUs, or if so, to a lesser extent. When presented with a self segregated environment, most people who don't fit the common mold will look elsewhere. Thus not too many white FB players (or students for that matter) at HBCUs, and not many hippies at BYU. If the given institutions wanted to change the perceptions they could. But they choose not to because for whatever reason, they feel the segregation is in their best interest.

[RichH2]

A bit of a brod stroke PAllen. Most HBCYs do not have the wherewithal that other scholls have to maintain aggressive recruiting of non black students. Cant speak to the many southern schools much but more locally Cheyney, DelSt, Howard,Morgan have very active efforts with varying success but on the whole a vast change from even 20 yrs ago. Not to get too philosophical, cultural change cannot be timed out like a boiled egg. Measured in decades and generations.

Agree with you about Wiley, cant say whether he intended it but post does come across as racist.

[Panther88]

I'm fairly certain quite a few HBCUs should (and would) have some type of POA to augment their minority counts over a specific duration and if one were to return to the past exactly 40 years ago this very second, I'm sure those #s would be impressive lol. (pun SEVERELY intended) Metrics and accountability coupled w/ transparency, I'm not so sure, for the most part, they all exist(ed) over the duration.

Enough has not been done. Enough is not being done. And I fear that enough will not be done in the near future to rectify this problem. Naturally, the fallout of this is the abysmal piss poor win %ile when division I-HBCUs compete head-to-head athletically vs division-I HWCUs.

[WileECoyote06]

A bit of a brod stroke PAllen. Most HBCYs do not have the wherewithal that other scholls have to maintain aggressive recruiting of non black students. Cant speak to the many southern schools much but more locally Cheyney, DelSt, Howard,Morgan have very active efforts with varying success but on the whole a vast change from even 20 yrs ago. Not to get too philosophical, cultural change cannot be timed out like a boiled egg. Measured in decades and generations.

Agree with you about Wiley, cant say whether he intended it but post does come across as racist.

You kind of agreed with what I was saying. It's not just what HBCUs are doing to recruit other ethnic groups, it's also who's willing to attend and matriculate. HBCUs have always been inclusive of everyone. But most are not willing to change their historic mission and purpose to satisfy someone's personal qualms. This is why I mentioned cultural assimilation vs integration. A person who believes in integration embraces the emphasis on black culture inherent at most HBCUs and views that as a valuable addendum to the American experience. A person who believes in cultural assimilation wants to eliminate the emphasis on black culture at an HBCU, and insist that they mainstream. Some HBCUs go one way, others go the other way.


I'm fairly certain quite a few HBCUs should (and would) have some type of POA to augment their minority counts over a specific duration and if one were to return to the past exactly 40 years ago this very second, I'm sure those #s would be impressive lol. (pun SEVERELY intended) Metrics and accountability coupled w/ transparency, I'm not so sure, for the most part, they all exist(ed) over the duration.

Enough has not been done. Enough is not being done. And I fear that enough will not be done in the near future to rectify this problem. Naturally, the fallout of this is the abysmal piss poor win %ile when division I-HBCUs compete head-to-head athletically vs division-I HWCUs.

You want to see more wins, recruit better players of any race/ethnic group, hire better coaches, offer more scholarships and invest more money in your program. You can't expect to consistently win at the Division I level, while spending at the Division II level.

[pike51]

This thread reminds me of a story I heard when I was being recruited....

FAMU football team was flying back home and the kicker (who was white) had a trophy with him. The stewardess asked him what the trophy was for and his replay, "Black college athlete of the year."

No idea if it's a true story or not, but I did find it amusing. On a side note, I was recruited by FAMU, Tuskeegee, and Bethune Cookman. I'm white and this was in the mid-90's.

[Panther88]

You want to see more wins, recruit better players of any race/ethnic group

Did I not say that earlier ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^? lol xsmhx

What was your purpose of stating "offering more scholarships?" xsmhx Sounds like a pre-written prayer speech lol. The schools I rep both are at that max so that little theory of yours is out the window. Also, I have a little bit of faith in the coaching staff and consider them top-flight to a certain degree, excepting for their current recruiting philosophy, which visibly shows sheer segregation, imho.

[Panther88]

well actually....it's not stupid. every bit helps. if you can make the difference in one kids life in their perception of PV education/football. that will be a monument of progress. that's another problem, "it's not my job". since i was a bandsmen, i've talked to high school musicians (here and there, informally) about the HBCU experience of playing and it benefits. just informing and creating a level of interest can make a difference.

come on, PV needs all the help it can get anyways, but i'll save the PV smack for another forum. lol.

Hopefully you understand that someone on that campus is being paid a salary every single month to provide this service, correct? If you weren't aware before you made this post, now you are aware and I'm overjoyed that I could enlighten you. I am NOT a PAID/SALARIED recruiter and I sincerely hope you're not advocating that "fans" get in the business of recruiting because it's an ncaa nightmare just waiting to explode for those who aren't aware of the ever changing recruiting rules. xsmhx

The most that any "fan" should do is pass a name/address/tele/e-mail addy/et al on to PAID staff so that they can fulfill their work requirement. If they're not doing their job to fulfill their position requirements, then they should immediately become unemployed, imo.

[Houndawg]

Hopefully you understand that someone on that campus is being paid a salary every single month to provide this service, correct? If you weren't aware before you made this post, now you are aware and I'm overjoyed that I could enlighten you. I am NOT a PAID/SALARIED recruiter and I sincerely hope you're not advocating that "fans" get in the business of recruiting because it's an ncaa nightmare just waiting to explode for those who aren't aware of the ever changing recruiting rules. xsmhx

The most that any "fan" should do is pass a name/address/tele/e-mail addy/et al on to PAID staff so that they can fulfill their work requirement. If they're not doing their job to fulfill their position requirements, then they should immediately become unemployed, imo.

Haven't read the whole thread but I'm curious as to whether the HBCU's aren't recruiting white kids, or they are recruiting them and the (white kids) aren't accepting? Big difference imo.

[813Jag]

Haven't read the whole thread but I'm curious as to whether the HBCU's aren't recruiting white kids, or they are recruiting them and the (white kids) aren't accepting? Big difference imo.
I obviously can't speak for everyone but I know Southern's staff recruits white kids. Obviously I can't say how many, but we did sign one this year (defensive tackle).

[roTSU50]

I don't see the value/point of HBCUs having mostly football to improve diversity. I think that it is a false sense of diversity. At any rate here is an article about HBCU diversity that is really good. I think a key point that most forget is the diversity of the staff at most HBCUs. You don't have those diversity numbers at majority schools.
__________________________________________________ ____________________
Post-Racial Rhetoric Diminishes HBCU Legacy of Interracial Cooperation

Written by Dr. Crystal A. deGregory, Posted in Editorial

Historically Black Colleges and Universities (HBCUs) should never be post-racial. Since the before the Civil War, black college campuses have been among the exceptional places in the United States were racism does not rule and where interracial cooperation does.

The most recent debate over possible HBCU post-racialism began when Jamilah Lemieux’s Ebony op-ed criticized fellow Howard University alumna Jillian Parker’s video “Mr. Football.” The song’s lyrics, she contended, left much to be desired. On this, she and I agree. Even so, it was the video’s storyline—that of a white female lacrosse player falling for a black male quarterback on an HBCU campus—which Lemieux admitted, left her “bothered.”

She was not alone.

The columnist, however, let her emotions get the best of her. Her alma mater is after all, the namesake of white Union Army General O.O. Howard. And like many of its HBCU counterparts, the university was founded through black self-determination and interracial cooperation. White northern missionaries, who often served as the earliest faculty, staff and administrators at black colleges, reared their children on black college campuses, where they were the playmates and classmates of black children.

In the post-Civil War period, white teachers at black colleges were the targets of racial epithets and even of stonings; by the mid-twentieth century, white faculty members like Howard Zinn at Spelman College and August Meier at Morgan State University encouraged the activism of black college students in the modern Civil Rights Movement. The courage and commitment of whites who were students at black colleges is also noteworthy, including the activism of Freedom Riders like Fisk University’s James Zwerg and Tougaloo College’s Joan Trumpauer, the first white student accepted into Delta Sigma Theta Sorority, Inc.

http://hbcudigest.com/post-racial-rhetoric-diminishes-hbcu-legacy-of-interracial-cooperation/

[dgtw]

On a side note, I was recruited by FAMU, Tuskeegee, and Bethune Cookman. I'm white and this was in the mid-90's.

Where did you wind up going? (I'm guessing Valdosta State). Did you seriously consider one of the HBCUs and what did your family think of the idea?

[WileECoyote06]

I don't see the value/point of HBCUs having mostly football to improve diversity. I think that it is a false sense of diversity. At any rate here is an article about HBCU diversity that is really good. I think a key point that most forget is the diversity of the staff at most HBCUs. You don't have those diversity numbers at majority schools.
__________________________________________________ ____________________
Post-Racial Rhetoric Diminishes HBCU Legacy of Interracial Cooperation

Written by Dr. Crystal A. deGregory, Posted in Editorial

Historically Black Colleges and Universities (HBCUs) should never be post-racial. Since the before the Civil War, black college campuses have been among the exceptional places in the United States were racism does not rule and where interracial cooperation does.

The most recent debate over possible HBCU post-racialism began when Jamilah Lemieux’s Ebony op-ed criticized fellow Howard University alumna Jillian Parker’s video “Mr. Football.” The song’s lyrics, she contended, left much to be desired. On this, she and I agree. Even so, it was the video’s storyline—that of a white female lacrosse player falling for a black male quarterback on an HBCU campus—which Lemieux admitted, left her “bothered.”

She was not alone.

The columnist, however, let her emotions get the best of her. Her alma mater is after all, the namesake of white Union Army General O.O. Howard. And like many of its HBCU counterparts, the university was founded through black self-determination and interracial cooperation. White northern missionaries, who often served as the earliest faculty, staff and administrators at black colleges, reared their children on black college campuses, where they were the playmates and classmates of black children.

In the post-Civil War period, white teachers at black colleges were the targets of racial epithets and even of stonings; by the mid-twentieth century, white faculty members like Howard Zinn at Spelman College and August Meier at Morgan State University encouraged the activism of black college students in the modern Civil Rights Movement. The courage and commitment of whites who were students at black colleges is also noteworthy, including the activism of Freedom Riders like Fisk University’s James Zwerg and Tougaloo College’s Joan Trumpauer, the first white student accepted into Delta Sigma Theta Sorority, Inc.

http://hbcudigest.com/post-racial-rhetoric-diminishes-hbcu-legacy-of-interracial-cooperation/

Interesting article.

[BluBengal07]

Hopefully you understand that someone on that campus is being paid a salary every single month to provide this service, correct? If you weren't aware before you made this post, now you are aware and I'm overjoyed that I could enlighten you. I am NOT a PAID/SALARIED recruiter and I sincerely hope you're not advocating that "fans" get in the business of recruiting because it's an ncaa nightmare just waiting to explode for those who aren't aware of the ever changing recruiting rules. xsmhx

The most that any "fan" should do is pass a name/address/tele/e-mail addy/et al on to PAID staff so that they can fulfill their work requirement. If they're not doing their job to fulfill their position requirements, then they should immediately become unemployed, imo.


it was not at the position of doing there job. seems a little sensitive.
yes, there are people that are paid to recruit where needed or promoted at the time. thanks common sense Panther88. it's just being an ambassador of your university in your local area. but if you're about passing the buck to the university without communicating with the student about your university, than do you.

[Panther88]

it was not at the position of doing there job. seems a little sensitive.
yes, there are people that are paid to recruit where needed or promoted at the time. thanks common sense Panther88. it's just being an ambassador of your university in your local area. but if you're about passing the buck to the university without communicating with the student about your university, than do you.

Like I said earlier, someone's full-time position is being paid to RECRUIT. Huge difference in being asked by someone interested vs going out seeking students like a PAID RECRUITER would. xsmhx

This started out being a GREAT thread for convo and then it took a severe turn for the worse. xsmhx Folks pulling up articles attempting to substantiate their erroneous positions, attempting to show "diversity" @ the genr'l student populous level, et al. xsmhx Always. That "type." xsmhx

[WileECoyote06]

Hey Panther88, do you ask that the money that you donate to your athletic department to go towards recruiting non-black students?

[Panther88]

Hey Panther88, do you ask that the money that you donate to your athletic department to go towards recruiting non-black students?

Why? What purpose of you hearing "yea" or "nea" have on the bearing of this subject?

I'll wait.

Seems to me the better solution for you personally would be for you to ask NCCU's athletic department what its goals relating to augmenting diversity would be. You're quite welcome. xlolx lol

[WileECoyote06]

Why? What purpose of you hearing "yea" or "nea" have on the bearing of this subject?

I'll wait.

Seems to me the better solution for you personally would be for you to ask NCCU's athletic department what its goals relating to augmenting diversity would be. You're quite welcome. xlolx lol

Why so defensive? I asked you this question. Are you directing your donations towards recruitment of non-black players?

I have no problem with our recruiting and have been quite pleased with the student-athletes we have signed during the years that I have been a member of our booster club. However if it were a concern of mine, then I would demand that my donations be earmarked for that purpose.

[Panther88]

Why so defensive? I asked you this question. Are you directing your donations towards recruitment of non-black players?

I have no problem with our recruiting and have been quite pleased with the student-athletes we have signed during the years that been a member of our booster club. However if it were a concern of mine, then I would demand that my donations be earmarked for that purpose.

Great for you but P88 answers to no one. lol Sorry if you took it defensively but I call it putting you back in your place, where you belong. :D

[WileECoyote06]

Great for you but P88 answers to no one. lol Sorry if you took it defensively but I call it putting you back in your place, where you belong. :D

I'll go ahead and say it. . .I strongly suspect that you do not donate to Prairie View athletics. That is your prerogative. However, you can't complain about how they run their program if you have 'no skin in the game'.

As far as putting me back in my place. . . WTF are you anyway? LOL. . . I donate to NCCU athletics and academics, I post on AGS; I post on Onnidan and I'm a free man. You can't put me in my place because you don't have the wherewithal, or the authority to do it. It's a message board, we post threads and we respond to threads. If you don't want responses then don't post.

[Panther88]

I'll go ahead and say it. . .I strongly suspect that you do not donate to Prairie View athletics. That is your prerogative. However, you can't complain about how they run their program if you have 'no skin in the game'.

As far as putting me back in my place. . . WTF are you anyway? LOL. . . I donate to NCCU athletics and academics, I post on AGS; I post on Onnidan and I'm a free man. You can't put me in my place because you don't have the wherewithal, or the authority to do it. It's a message board, we post threads and we respond to threads. If you don't want responses then don't post.

Chaser of road runner, WTF are YOU getting defensive about? I never asked you one single time what you do and how you do it w/ regards to your athletic department and in all seriousness I could really GAFF WTF your little self does because you are hugely insignificant to me, and your little school too lol.

Assume what you may. I have nothing to prove to someone, like you. Those in the know, know. Those like you, make ASSumptions and show themselves to be the true dumbasses they are. It's not my fault you came into this public forum and made a complete racist ass of out of yourself, BLACK RACIST! :D It's okay if you desire to keep your silly little insignificant school segregated w/ that silly little all-black environment you people are fostering. :D lol

(I slay myself xlolx duhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh coyo-tah lol)