ESPN in talks to create FCS Football Challenge

[bonarae]

http://www.sportsnetwork.com/merge/tsnform.aspx?c=sportsnetwork&page=cfoot2/writers/infcshuddle/archive/haley_06_13_2013.htm

Saw it on the other board, but nobody has dared to crosspost it here (though it has a thread in the generated forum.)

Discuss.

[walliver]

It is being discussed briefly in this thread:

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/showthread.php?132039-Better-Marketing-the-FCS-Through-TV/page5

[WestCoastAggie]

I hope the MEAC is involved in this somehow. The MEAC/SWAC Challenge did well on TV and should improve somewhat with FAMU in it.

[813Jag]

I hope the MEAC is involved in this somehow. The MEAC/SWAC Challenge did well on TV and should improve somewhat with FAMU in it.
with Valley going, I'm interested to see the numbers. I'll probably be there to help out the Delta Devils.

[bluehenbillk]

I hope the MEAC is involved in this somehow. The MEAC/SWAC Challenge did well on TV and should improve somewhat with FAMU in it.

Well they say in the article they want to showcase the best of FCS. That would immediately eliminate the MEAC from the discussion. Win a playoff game maybe once a decade....

[Saint3333]

I've always loved the idea of an FCS matchup of the week.

The first three weeks would be great OOC matchups and then choose one game from each conference the rest of the year.

[Lehigh'98]

Great news, too bad the dates effectively eliminate the Ivies off the bat. App & GSU will be gone when this starts. I forsee some matchups between the MVFC, BSC & SLC powers. Maybe a Delaware or JMU depending on their records.

[Apphole]

They're finally realizing that there is some ratings potential if you pair two big-time FCSers out of conference after all. Could we credit ASU v Montana in 2009 and 2012 as what opened their eyes?

[BluBengal07]

I hope the MEAC is involved in this somehow. The MEAC/SWAC Challenge did well on TV and should improve somewhat with FAMU in it.

isn't FAMU band still suspended? if so, that a good couple of thousands not showing up, but it's in Orlando, so they'll have local support. then there is Valley.....their fans barely travels to in-state games. smh

with this being the last year of the contract with Orlando and Disney, they better pull out some "wow-factors" to get the numbers back up to support an extension. anyways, Memphis or Atlanta seems to be more of a central location for universities and fans.

[darell1976]

So its almost like the bracket buster they have in basketball. Scheduling is tough enough in football now you have to try to get a powerhouse to play for money and ratings. So your schedule is FCS powerhouse, plus FBS, plus OOC (probably lower FCS) then conference play. Could make for an interesting season.

[IBleedYellow]

I wish that we could get a deal with FOX Sport 1 somehow at the FCS level.

Too bad we're locked in with ESPN until 2023.

[Franks Tanks]

Good Stuff.

I hope we get more FCS games on ESPN U, 2 etc. on Thursday's and Saturday's.

Fun Fact- The 1st ever football game on ESPN2 was the 1993 Lafayette-Lehigh game. The only drawback was that nobody had ESPN2 20 years ago.

http://articles.mcall.com/1993-11-14/entertainment/2947864_1_college-football-cable-espn-and-espn2

[darell1976]

Good Stuff.

I hope we get more FCS games on ESPN U, 2 etc. on Thursday's and Saturday's.

Fun Fact- The 1st ever football game on ESPN2 was the 1993 Lafayette-Lehigh game. The only drawback was that nobody has ESPN2 20 years ago.

http://articles.mcall.com/1993-11-14/entertainment/2947864_1_college-football-cable-espn-and-espn2

There is ESPN, ESPN2 and ESPNU just rotate 2 FBS games and 1 FCS game through the 3 networks. You already have Big 10 games on ABC, SEC games on CBS, and Notre Dame football on NBC what more do they need?

[Franks Tanks]

There is ESPN, ESPN2 and ESPNU just rotate 2 FBS games and 1 FCS game through the 3 networks. You already have Big 10 games on ABC, SEC games on CBS, and Notre Dame football on NBC what more do they need?

Don't forget CBS sports and Fox Sports. In my neck of the woods I get Big 12 and Pac 12 games on Fox sports,and CBS sports seems to have lower level FBS games like MAC or Army and Navy games. I don't know what FCS ratings look like, but they don't have to pay the schools to air the games. We will all be happy just getting on national TV.

[darell1976]

Don't forget CBS sports and Fox Sports. In my neck of the woods I get Big 12 and Pac 12 games on Fox sports,and CBS sports seems to have lower level FBS games like MAC or Army and Navy games. I don't know what FCS ratings look like, but they don't have to pay the schools to air the games. We will all be happy just getting on national TV.

Exposure is almost as good as money. You want your team exposed for recruiting and maybe to attract new games. UND picked up University of Washington because of a strong alumni base in Seattle, plus a big payday. It also could attract recruits in the Pacific Northwest. FBS has the exposure, fans know these schools and most likely what they can do, would it really hurt to throw an FCS game on an ESPN channel every week? Just like you said Franks Tanks we would be happy getting on national TV.

[Herder]

Great FCS matchups? I'd rather just schedule SMU.

[dgtw]

Well they say in the article they want to showcase the best of FCS. That would immediately eliminate the MEAC from the discussion. Win a playoff game maybe once a decade....

At least the MEAC goes to the playoffs.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

They're finally realizing that there is some ratings potential if you pair two big-time FCSers out of conference after all. Could we credit ASU v Montana in 2009 and 2012 as what opened their eyes?

That might be the proof someone needed but I remember in 2004 after the national championship game there was talk about ESPN trying to do something like this to start the season on a Thursday night between JMU/Montana for the 2005 or 2006 season and maybe getting something like this going back then as well. I wish it could have been worked out back then because we'd have seen some great cross conference matchups in the interim.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Good Stuff.

I hope we get more FCS games on ESPN U, 2 etc. on Thursday's and Saturday's.

Fun Fact- The 1st ever football game on ESPN2 was the 1993 Lafayette-Lehigh game. The only drawback was that nobody had ESPN2 20 years ago.

http://articles.mcall.com/1993-11-14/entertainment/2947864_1_college-football-cable-espn-and-espn2

Man remember when ESPNU started? I remember seeing a lot of great FCS games on there too. I thought that channel was gonna be the thing that really had my interest in the ESPN lineup but just never happened.

[CrazyCat]

Great FCS matchups? I'd rather just schedule SMU.

Good idea. Then you could pay for a team to play a Thursday night game.

[Herder]

Good idea. Then you could pay for a team to play a Thursday night game.

Not to mention soften up your schedule and make sure the boys have a chance to go home. That the most important thing. :)

[DFW HOYA]

As the article noted, it's not like we're going to see Sacred Heart on TV--a lot of conferences would probably be off this list before it started.

ESPN is probably envisioning a doubleheader on week one, with some combination of an early Big Sky or MVC game and then one of those early HBCU classic games. For 90% of the subdivision, nothing to get worked up about.

[darell1976]

As the article noted, it's not like we're going to see Sacred Heart on TV--a lot of conferences would probably be off this list before it started.

ESPN is probably envisioning a doubleheader on week one, with some combination of an early Big Sky or MVC game and then one of those early HBCU classic games. For 90% of the subdivision, nothing to get worked up about.

How does this work with conferences like the Big Sky who have tv deals (Big Sky TV). Does ESPN take over the broadcasting like all video shots are from ESPN and not from a BSC team or camaras from the BSC team and throw ESPN reporters in the booth. Does the money go to the conference or the teams?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

As the article noted, it's not like we're going to see Sacred Heart on TV--a lot of conferences would probably be off this list before it started.

ESPN is probably envisioning a doubleheader on week one, with some combination of an early Big Sky or MVC game and then one of those early HBCU classic games. For 90% of the subdivision, nothing to get worked up about.


How does this work with conferences like the Big Sky who have tv deals (Big Sky TV). Does ESPN take over the broadcasting like all video shots are from ESPN and not from a BSC team or camaras from the BSC team and throw ESPN reporters in the booth. Does the money go to the conference or the teams?

All great points/questions. I'm actively looking for answers.

[CrazyCat]

How does this work with conferences like the Big Sky who have tv deals (Big Sky TV). Does ESPN take over the broadcasting like all video shots are from ESPN and not from a BSC team or camaras from the BSC team and throw ESPN reporters in the booth. Does the money go to the conference or the teams?

ROOT is BSC games only and are not available on BSTV. Max Media has picked up the rest of the MSU/UM schedule(except MSU is waiting on SMU). Big Sky TV is only contracted for BSC games but MAX Media allows them to also stream their non-conference broadcasts. Since the proposed ESPN concept would be basically non-conference. I see no reason ESPN wouldn't have rights to do what they want.

[BisonCM]

How does this work with conferences like the Big Sky who have tv deals (Big Sky TV). Does ESPN take over the broadcasting like all video shots are from ESPN and not from a BSC team or camaras from the BSC team and throw ESPN reporters in the booth. Does the money go to the conference or the teams?

There must a prescient set here in the past. Seems like most of the BCS teams have TV deals and ESPN still carries these games sometimes.

[darell1976]

There must a prescient set here in the past. Seems like most of the BCS teams have TV deals and ESPN still carries these games sometimes.

That's true. Thanks.

[darell1976]

ROOT is BSC games only and are not available on BSTV. Max Media has picked up the rest of the MSU/UM schedule(except MSU is waiting on SMU). Big Sky TV is only contracted for BSC games but MAX Media allows them to also stream their non-conference broadcasts. Since the proposed ESPN concept would be basically non-conference. I see no reason ESPN wouldn't have rights to do what they want.

I forgot it (Root and BSTV) was just conference games. It would be great to have some good FCS games on ESPN.

[BEAR]

Or, say, an Eastern power like Villanova or Delaware visiting the striped turf of Central Arkansas

xlolx xlolx

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Or, say, an Eastern power like Villanova or Delaware visiting the striped turf of Central Arkansas

I just noticed that too. No JMU or UNH? Both have been more consistent than Nova or the Hens.

[eaglewraith]

They're finally realizing that there is some ratings potential if you pair two big-time FCSers out of conference after all. Could we credit ASU v Montana in 2009 and 2012 as what opened their eyes?

App-Montana 2009 stands as the highest rated football game of all time I do believe (rating was a 1.9 I think).

The viewer numbers on Georgia Southern - ODU this year was pretty impressive as the highest rated game of the year with 1.5 million viewers.

There's some value in the big matchups. People love watching good football.

[Pard4Life]

Oh great! Now we can see Bucknell and Lehigh, because ESPN will associate their names with basketball and automatically put them on air to draw ratings, even though Fordham and Lafayette trump everyone else with regard to history and relevance.

[CID1990]

App-Montana 2009 stands as the highest rated football game of all time I do believe (rating was a 1.9 I think).

The viewer numbers on Georgia Southern - ODU this year was pretty impressive as the highest rated game of the year with 1.5 million viewers.

There's some value in the big matchups. People love watching good football.

Well then they better not have Chatty in this game. They'll destroy whoever they play, it'll be boring by the 2nd quarter when they're up 50, and everybody will tune out.

[CID1990]

Oh great! Now we can see Bucknell and Lehigh, because ESPN will associate their names with basketball and automatically put them on air to draw ratings, even though Fordham and Lafayette trump everyone else with regard to history and relevance.

Georgetown vs. Davidson

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

I just noticed that too. No JMU or UNH? Both have been more consistent than Nova or the Hens.

ESPN isn't coming to the Dungeon for a regular season game!! You can bet the farm on that!!!!! xnodx xlolx

[RichH2]

Oh great! Now we can see Bucknell and Lehigh, because ESPN will associate their names with basketball and automatically put them on air to draw ratings, even though Fordham and Lafayette trump everyone else with regard to history and relevance.

Wow. How about Gate? I know you're blind hatred of LU precludes you from any postive comment. But really Lafayette trumps LU? Not in a very long time. Rams do indeed habe that tradition but not yet in the current iteration of their program.

[RichH2]

Gate certainly a better history and tradition. Yup. LC will meed few decades of good teams to get back in the mix

[DFW HOYA]

Georgetown vs. Davidson

For the record, the Hoyas had a primetime game last season on ESPNU.

[Lehigh'98]

Oh great! Now we can see Bucknell and Lehigh, because ESPN will associate their names with basketball and automatically put them on air to draw ratings, even though Fordham and Lafayette trump everyone else with regard to history and relevance.

How does being 5-13 against us in the last 18 make you more relevant? we have over 7 playoff appearances in that time period and most likely we have doubled your win total since 95 as well. I try not to be an ass about things and build you guys up, but comments like these make it very hard. If u were just trolling , then I give u credit, u got me.

[walliver]

Very few FCS stadia look good on TV. For the most part, FCS stadia are designed "high school style", with a large home side with press box and a smaller visitors side (which often has empty seats). TV cameras are usually set up on the press box side and the visitors side is most prominent. The large home crowd is not seen, and the noise generated is directed away form the microphones. There are a few "pro style" stadia with home fans spread out with crowded and loud visitors sides.

If a goal is to build up the FCS brand, ESPN would need to either hand-pick locations based on stadium design, or find a way to broadcast from the visitors side.

[The Maestro]

agreed walliver...been a pet peeve of mine for a long time as it simply plays into "small time" mentality.

i'm not in "the biz" but can't imagine it's that much of a hassle, if any, to have tv cameras. mikes, and print photographers for that matter , situated along visitors sideline. that said, home teams could also do better job of cordoning off the visible empty areas and making sure seating is "squeezed" so as far as tv goes you get a filled to capacity look (ie) herd home fans btw the 20's in lower tier of Franklin Field first or no grassy knoll seats in EZ at Goodman unless home side is filled.

perception becomes reality & the product is much more attractive. of course biggest improvement would be for schools Ath Dept's to get act together and promote better to students, fans, and alumni to legitimately increase crowds. a reality check of ticket prices, parking, concessions, and 'fan friendliness" of game day experience would go a long way based upon the trends i've noticed the past few years

[Pard4Life]

How does being 5-13 against us in the last 18 make you more relevant? we have over 7 playoff appearances in that time period and most likely we have doubled your win total since 95 as well. I try not to be an ass about things and build you guys up, but comments like these make it very hard. If u were just trolling , then I give u credit, u got me.

Records and performance against Lehigh have nothing to do with branding and name panache. The Ivy's have been irrelevant for decades, but their history and tradition has enabled them to have a better TV deal and more exposure in the football world than anyone in the Patriot League. In all honesty, Lafayette and Lehigh are probably 'equal' with regard to the history and tradition in the college football world (despite the fact that we have three national titles, seven Hall of Fame members, and invented a few concepts) solely due to the rivalry. Fordham also tops the list because they had Vince Lombardi, the Seven Blocks of Granite, were a national team in the 30s-40s, and went to major bowl games.

[DFW HOYA]

In all honesty, Lafayette and Lehigh are probably 'equal' with regard to the history and tradition in the college football world (despite the fact that we have three national titles, seven Hall of Fame members, and invented a few concepts) solely due to the rivalry. Fordham also tops the list because they had Vince Lombardi, the Seven Blocks of Granite, were a national team in the 30s-40s, and went to major bowl games.

In all honesty, the history and tradition angle would probably be ranked as:

1. Holy Cross/Colgate (stayed relevant nationally longer than the others)
2. Fordham/Georgetown (both programs share the same historical timeline)
3. Lehigh/Lafayette (both programs also share the same historical timeline)
4. Bucknell

[Lehigh'98]

Records and performance against Lehigh have nothing to do with branding and name panache. The Ivy's have been irrelevant for decades, but their history and tradition has enabled them to have a better TV deal and more exposure in the football world than anyone in the Patriot League. In all honesty, Lafayette and Lehigh are probably 'equal' with regard to the history and tradition in the college football world (despite the fact that we have three national titles, seven Hall of Fame members, and invented a few concepts) solely due to the rivalry. Fordham also tops the list because they had Vince Lombardi, the Seven Blocks of Granite, were a national team in the 30s-40s, and went to major bowl games.

You guys have a very rich and proud history along with others in the PL. I still don't see us as part of these games on ESPN unless our conference improves significantly in the present. Eventually what have you done for me lately overshadows past performance.

[RichH2]

Yup '98
Lets try not to live so much in the past that we become as irrelevant as tne Ivies. Agree we must improve to make this an opportunity to raise our nat'l rep.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

4. Bucknell

Bucknell had some national notoriety in the very early days of the forward pass. For many years they were joined at the hip with Lehigh and Lafayette, too.

[ecasadoSBU]

Records and performance against Lehigh have nothing to do with branding and name panache. The Ivy's have been irrelevant for decades, but their history and tradition has enabled them to have a better TV deal and more exposure in the football world than anyone in the Patriot League. In all honesty, Lafayette and Lehigh are probably 'equal' with regard to the history and tradition in the college football world (despite the fact that we have three national titles, seven Hall of Fame members, and invented a few concepts) solely due to the rivalry. Fordham also tops the list because they had Vince Lombardi, the Seven Blocks of Granite, were a national team in the 30s-40s, and went to major bowl games.

Not trying to be an ass... But just wondering how many people remember this... is it enough people to make ESPN wanna have a PL team in TV? I mean, you are talking about the 30s, 40s... that's prehistoric in terms of TV audience...

IMO... a team from Montana is a must... FCS is the FBS in Montana and it draws pretty well. It would only make sense to put one of those Montana teams on TV at least in terms of ratings...or perhaps NDSU who has a big audience also... the other team could be picked from any of the top FCS conferences...

[WileECoyote06]

agreed walliver...been a pet peeve of mine for a long time as it simply plays into "small time" mentality.

i'm not in "the biz" but can't imagine it's that much of a hassle, if any, to have tv cameras. mikes, and print photographers for that matter , situated along visitors sideline. that said, home teams could also do better job of cordoning off the visible empty areas and making sure seating is "squeezed" so as far as tv goes you get a filled to capacity look (ie) herd home fans btw the 20's in lower tier of Franklin Field first or no grassy knoll seats in EZ at Goodman unless home side is filled.

perception becomes reality & the product is much more attractive. of course biggest improvement would be for schools Ath Dept's to get act together and promote better to students, fans, and alumni to legitimately increase crowds. a reality check of ticket prices, parking, concessions, and 'fan friendliness" of game day experience would go a long way based upon the trends i've noticed the past few years

They did it during our game against Hampton last year.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hVgSL1QWEw4

[The Maestro]

that's the idea, though weren't they still filming from home side of field? cameras on other side would allow for the largest crowd shots. lafayette tape looks cool and pretty impressive when filmed from visitor side focused on home stands or new bldg EZ....well at least every 2 yrs vs LU when seats are almost filled. Not so good looking at visitors side (even if packed) or gym EZ

[danefan]

Not trying to be an ass... But just wondering how many people remember this... is it enough people to make ESPN wanna have a PL team in TV? I mean, you are talking about the 30s, 40s... that's prehistoric in terms of TV audience...

IMO... a team from Montana is a must... FCS is the FBS in Montana and it draws pretty well. It would only make sense to put one of those Montana teams on TV at least in terms of ratings...or perhaps NDSU who has a big audience also... the other team could be picked from any of the top FCS conferences...

PL teams should be a part of it, but are unlikely to host.

I do think Lehigh/Lafayette should be an ESPN game every year.

But, to answer your question, about 10 people remember when the Ivy and Patriot teams were really good.

[Pard4Life]

Bucknell had some national notoriety in the very early days of the forward pass. For many years they were joined at the hip with Lehigh and Lafayette, too.

They still are... Bucknell won the first Orange Bowl and their stadium is named after Christy Matthewson, but it was really just that one moment... akin to Santa Clara going to the Sugar Bowl for one year and being invisible for the rest of time.

[Pard4Life]

Not trying to be an ass... But just wondering how many people remember this... is it enough people to make ESPN wanna have a PL team in TV? I mean, you are talking about the 30s, 40s... that's prehistoric in terms of TV audience...

IMO... a team from Montana is a must... FCS is the FBS in Montana and it draws pretty well. It would only make sense to put one of those Montana teams on TV at least in terms of ratings...or perhaps NDSU who has a big audience also... the other team could be picked from any of the top FCS conferences...

Whenever I hear about Fordham football, Vince Lombardi and their history always comes up. I think it was mentioned a few times on-air during the Cincinnati game. The sports media 'inteligensia' is well aware of it and can easily sell it because everyone can identify Vince Lombardi and the major bowl games.

[WileECoyote06]

that's the idea, though weren't they still filming from home side of field? cameras on other side would allow for the largest crowd shots. lafayette tape looks cool and pretty impressive when filmed from visitor side focused on home stands or new bldg EZ....well at least every 2 yrs vs LU when seats are almost filled. Not so good looking at visitors side (even if packed) or gym EZ

Oh yeah my bad. . they did. I forgot we just made students fill in the other stands. lol

[Sader87]

PL teams should be a part of it, but are unlikely to host.

I do think Lehigh/Lafayette should be an ESPN game every year.

But, to answer your question, about 10 people remember when the Ivy and Patriot teams were really good.

A slight exagerration but probably not too far off depending on what your definition of "really good" happens to be.

You'd have to be about 65+ to remember well when Ivies had ranked teams in the 60's and early 70's, when Holy Cross played against (and beat) teams like Syracuse and BC somewhat regularly etc etc

If you are about 45-65 you remember when the Ivies and teams like Holy Cross, Lehigh and Colgate were amoungst the best both in the East and often at the national level of 1-AA.

It's really only people under 40 (admittedly a growing part of the American populace) who really only know the PL and Ivies as sort of "second-tier" programs in 1-AA...hopefully with scholarships back in the PL, the next generation will see Patriot League football in a different light.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

PL teams should be a part of it, but are unlikely to host.

I do think Lehigh/Lafayette should be an ESPN game every year.

But, to answer your question, about 10 people remember when the Ivy and Patriot teams were really good.

A slight exagerration but probably not too far off depending on what your definition of "really good" happens to be.

You'd have to be about 65+ to remember well when Ivies had ranked teams in the 60's and early 70's, when Holy Cross played against (and beat) teams like Syracuse and BC somewhat regularly etc etc

If you are about 45-65 you remember when the Ivies and teams like Holy Cross, Lehigh and Colgate were amoungst the best both in the East and often at the national level of 1-AA.

It's really only people under 40 (admittedly a growing part of the American populace) who really only know the PL and Ivies as sort of "second-tier" programs in 1-AA...hopefully with scholarships back in the PL, the next generation will see Patriot League football in a different light.

I'm just old enough to remember the scholarship HC days. Lehigh and Lafayette also had some really good teams in the late 80's, early 90's. I really don't think the PL was looked down upon in 1AA circles until the mid 90's. In 1993, 8-3 Lehigh lost to Delaware 62-21 to start the year and then suffered a 77-14 blowout to Idaho in early November. The following year Lafayette won the league title yet went 0-6 in OOC play. That's when things started to get ugly imo.

Dartmouth had some solid national respect in the early, to mid 1990's too. Didn't they have the longest winning streak in the country at one point?

[Sader87]

[QUOTE=Sader87;1969976]

I'm just old enough to remember the scholarship HC days. Lehigh and Lafayette also had some really good teams in the late 80's, early 90's. I really don't think the PL was looked down upon in the 1AA circles until the mid 90's. In 1993, 8-3 Lehigh lost to Delaware. 62-21 to start the year and then suffered a 77-14 blowout to Idaho in early November. The following year Lafayette won the league title yet went 0-6 in OOC play. That's when things started to get ugly imo.

Dartmouth had some solid national respect in the early, to mid 1990's too. Didn't they have the longest winning streak in the country at one point?

http://cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/div_iaa/ivyleague/dartmouth/1995-1999_yearly_results.php

I had forgotten Dartmouth had such a good run then...in all honesty this was about the time that I (and many others) had lost interest in HC football as we pretty much "bottomed out" in the mid/late 1990's.

[Lehigh'98]

[QUOTE=Sader87;1969976]

I'm just old enough to remember the scholarship HC days. Lehigh and Lafayette also had some really good teams in the late 80's, early 90's. I really don't think the PL was looked down upon in the 1AA circles until the mid 90's. In 1993, 8-3 Lehigh lost to Delaware. 62-21 to start the year and then suffered a 77-14 blowout to Idaho in early November. The following year Lafayette won the league title yet went 0-6 in OOC play. That's when things started to get ugly imo.

Dartmouth had some solid national respect in the early, to mid 1990's too. Didn't they have the longest winning streak in the country at one point?

Dartmouth's streak was broken by Lehigh at Dartmouth in 1997. Easily our best win of the 4 on the season. We also came from behind to defeat Lafayette after being down 21-0 although we got a gift call on a bobbled Td pass to Braswell that helped out.

[GAD]

Another way to look at this is if a team plays in a stadium that seats <15k an half those seats are empty does that team really need to be on TV anyway?

[sdgriz24]

Sucks that the most key demographic(18-35 males) dont remember or care about the Ivys or PLs history.. you guys are nothinf now. Good luck getting back

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Sucks that the most key demographic(18-35 males) dont remember or care about the Ivys or PLs history.. you guys are nothinf now. Good luck getting back


Fordham, Georgetown and Holy Cross are really the only fan bases that are forced to live in the past. Lehigh and Colgate have both enjoyed plenty of success at the FCS/1AA level. As a result, neither fan base is forced to rely on revisionist history. Lafayette is a bit of mixed bag while Bucknell is a hoops school...

[Lehigh'98]

Sucks that the most key demographic(18-35 males) dont remember or care about the Ivys or PLs history.. you guys are nothinf now. Good luck getting back

The scholarships will most definitely help us in that regard.

[Sader87]

Fordham, Georgetown and Holy Cross are really the only fan bases that are forced to live in the past. Lehigh and Colgate have both enjoyed plenty of success at the FCS/1AA level. As a result, neither fan base is forced to rely on revisionist history. Lafayette is a bit of mixed bag while Bucknell is a hoops school...

There is a bit of a difference between FU and GU's "living in the past" (1930's and 40's) and HC's (up to the early 1990's)....just sayin'

Do GU and FU really have fan bases....respective to HC's anyway???

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

There is a bit of a difference between FU and GU's "living in the past" (1930's and 40's) and HC's (up to the early 1990's)....just sayin'

Do GU and FU really have fan bases....respective to HC's anyway???

Holy Cross's history is unique. You guys were good up until WW2, then became a terrible 1A program for 30 years or so. Thankfully someone got smart and HC dropped down which led to unprecedented success.

Georgetown obviously has a small fan base for football. Fordham, however, has a pretty big "closet" following imo.

[Sader87]

Holy Cross's history is unique. You guys were good up until WW2, then became a terrible 1A program for 30 years or so. Thankfully someone got smart and HC dropped down which led to unprecedented success.

Georgetown obviously has a small fan base for football. Fordham, however, has a pretty big "closet" following imo.

That's a bit harsh....HC, while not a national power, was a fairly solid 1-A program up to about the mid-60's. Good enough to beat nationally ranked Syracuse teams in the late 50's, BC more often than not until the mid-60's etc etc.

I agree, after coeducation came to HC in 1972, HC was really 1-A in name only.

[RichH2]

As probably the only one here who played in the very early 60s and followed most of our teams since then, there are lits of good and bad cycles for all of us. The issue now is not who was good way back then but rather who will make the best use of schollies and be good now. No panacea for sure, but expect PL all to improve but will that tide consistently put top teams on the natl stage. Different teams have had runs, w LU and Gate being most successful. A serious contender for championship at least enuf to be mentioned in that conversation more often. These are the goals we need to pursue.

[Go...gate]

For the record, the Hoyas had a primetime game last season on ESPNU.

vs. Princeton. Damn good football game, too.

[Go...gate]

That's a bit harsh....HC, while not a national power, was a fairly solid 1-A program up to about the mid-60's. Good enough to beat nationally ranked Syracuse teams in the late 50's, BC more often than not until the mid-60's etc etc.

I agree, after coeducation came to HC in 1972, HC was really 1-A in name only.

I remember you guys beating Air Force, BC and Army after 1972, not to mention a few good Colgate clubs.

[Go...gate]

Holy Cross's history is unique. You guys were good up until WW2, then became a terrible 1A program for 30 years or so. Thankfully someone got smart and HC dropped down which led to unprecedented success.

Georgetown obviously has a small fan base for football. Fordham, however, has a pretty big "closet" following imo.

More than I-A in name only. Cross, like Colgate, continued to play its traditional opponents, which were mostly Ivies, Army, BC and Syracuse, etc. until going I-AA.

[Sader87]

More than I-A in name only. Cross, like Colgate, continued to play its traditional opponents, which were mostly Ivies, Army, BC and Syracuse, etc. until going I-AA.

The 1970's HC football schedules were basically: 3 or 4 Ivies, 3 or 4 now CAA (or used to be CAA) schools and 2 or 3, sometimes 4 now FBS programs. As I said earlier, by the 1970's, HC was still technically 1-A but it was a program in flux. There had been serious studies to drop football altogether right around the time coeducation started at HC, a brief foray into the Yankee Conference for a year, the hepatitis outbreak in 1969 which cancelled the season after 2 games etc etc etc.

There were some highlights in the 70's, as you mentioned the 1978 beat Army, Air Force and BC, but overall it was a program that was trending downward before it joined 1-AA in 1981.

Ironically, the move to 1-AA brought forth sort of a renaissance for HC football as it had success, that it hadn't seen since the 30's, 40's and 50's, during its decade of scholarship football at 1-AA from 1981-1992.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

There were some highlights in the 70's, as you mentioned the 1978 beat Army, Air Force and BC, but overall it was a program that was trending downward before it joined 1-AA in 1981.

Ironically, the move to 1-AA brought forth sort of a renaissance for HC football as it had success, that it hadn't seen since the 30's, 40's and 50's, during its decade of scholarship football at 1-AA from 1981-1992.

You could make the same case that that happened to the Ivies, and Army and Navy football, too. I don't think it's coincidental that this happened during coeducation, either.

[Go Green]

For the record, the Hoyas had a primetime game last season on ESPNU.

Against another basketball-first school.

:)

[Sader87]

So basically "to circle the square" vis a vis this thread...I think Holy Cross showed in the 80's and early 90's, that a strong team (with scholarships) from the Patriot League could more than be ready to host a home ESPN game in this series. Different time/world I know but ESPN did already broadcast games at Fitton in the 80's.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

So basically "to circle the square" vis a vis this thread...I think Holy Cross showed in the 80's and early 90's, that a strong team (with scholarships) from the Patriot League could more than be ready to host a home ESPN game in this series. Different time/world I know but ESPN did already broadcast games at Fitton in the 80's.

Lehigh vs Lafayette in 1993 was the first football game to be broadcasted on ESPN2.

http://articles.mcall.com/1993-11-14/entertainment/2947864_1_college-football-cable-espn-and-espn2

[Go Green]

So basically "to circle the square" vis a vis this thread...I think Holy Cross showed in the 80's and early 90's, that a strong team (with scholarships) from the Patriot League could more than be ready to host a home ESPN game in this series. Different time/world I know but ESPN did already broadcast games at Fitton in the 80's.

ESPN did a lot of Ivy games in those days as well.

http://www.dartmouthsports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=11600&ATCLID=204966899

[RichH2]

We should get a new class for threads, the retro, no posts about any topic post 1990.

[Go...gate]

So basically "to circle the square" vis a vis this thread...I think Holy Cross showed in the 80's and early 90's, that a strong team (with scholarships) from the Patriot League could more than be ready to host a home ESPN game in this series. Different time/world I know but ESPN did already broadcast games at Fitton in the 80's.

ESPN did Cross at Villanova on a Thursday night in November 1987.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

We should get a new class for threads, the retro, no posts about any topic post 1990.

Perfect! We can discuss why/how Temple has winning record against Lafayette. The only PL school we have more W's and than L's against....

[Go Green]

We should get a new class for threads, the retro, no posts about any topic post 1990.

It's the offseason. xrotatehx

That being said, 1990 is a good starting point for me. :D

[DFW HOYA]

We should get a new class for threads, the retro, no posts about any topic post 1990.

That won't be easy, like explaining how Georgetown played (and lost) to Ursinus and Swarthmore in the same season.