best player you SAW play againgst your team

[813Jag]

I'm sure this topic has been done before (but what the hell it's preseason), so let's hear it who's the best player you saw play against your team.
For me it would be a tie between Steve McNair (guy gave our defense fits) and Jerry Rice (seemed like he always got open with the offense they ran).

[parr90]

Actually there are a couple and I played against them. One was Larry Centers in the 89 NC game, the other was I think his name was Joe Tidmore in the same game for SFA. They had a center whom I faced that was the best center I ever played against and that includes FSU and others. Cant remember his name. They had several drafted off that team. A running back for JMU back in 1989 cant remember his name I think his last name was Lanier. Obviously Armanti Edwards.

[CID1990]

I saw Armanti Edwards about 4 times more than I cared to.


Sent from the center of the universe.

[AppAlum2003]

Probably Jayson Foster... it was short-lived, but what he was able to do to grown men was silly.

[asucrutch23]

Technically the best players I've seen play App are Jake Long in 2007 (#1 pick in the 2008 draft), and Patrick Peterson in 2008 (despite being just a freshman at the time). If we're going FCS players only, it's gotta be Jayson Foster from GSU or Matt Szczur from Villanova. Those guys could do anything on a football field.

[Tribe4SF]

Limiting the answer to FCS players, I'll name two from Villanova.

Brian Westbrook, and Matt Szczur.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

Randy Moss. I was just a kid but I do remember that '96 game in Statesboro. Marshall didn't look overly impressive against our not-so-great team that day, but RM was on another level.

#2 would be Armanti Edwards. I watched all four Armanti versus GSU games in person. Seems like he was at App. State forever.

#3 would be Ricky Santos. He was a freshman playing like a senior in that 2004 playoff game.

#4 Would be Taylor Heinecke. Basically 7 quarters of him doing whatever he wanted to until the fourth quarter of the second game where we finally got some stops.

[McNeese72]

Damn, there are too many to consider. I guess the candidates would be Roger Staubach, Terry Bradshaw, Mean Joe Green, etc.

Doc

[PaladinFan]

Armanti Edwards and Terrell Hudgins.

Edwards for obvious reasons. Hudgins is still the best FCS WR I've personally watched play against Furman. He had a game at Furman a few years ago where he was absolutely unstoppable. One acrobatic catch after another.

Foster is up there, but he tended to struggle against Furman more than other teams. The other two just took over games against the Paladins.

[TheRevSFA]

If we include FBS players, then RG3...

If it is only FCS players, then Matt Szczur and Tim Flanders make the list.

[Saint3333]

Best player - Randy Moss without a doubt.

AP - second

Best individual performance: Thomas Haskins, RB on an 0-10 VMI in 1994 ran for over 200 yards against App that day.

[ASUMountaineer]

The original Adrian Peterson.

[eaglewraith]

Armanti Edwards and Terrell Hudgins.

Edwards for obvious reasons. Hudgins is still the best FCS WR I've personally watched play against Furman. He had a game at Furman a few years ago where he was absolutely unstoppable. One acrobatic catch after another.

Foster is up there, but he tended to struggle against Furman more than other teams. The other two just took over games against the Paladins.

IRT Foster, in fairness he was only really at QB against you in 2005 and 2007. In 2006 he was tearing up the field and would get pulled in the redzone. In 2004 he was just at WR. But yes, I would agree the Furman games were the tougher ones he played.

[eaglewraith]

#1 Armanti Edwards. However, 2 games were decided by one score, 1 loss....and we'll just ignore that 2009 game. He was definitely a magician out there, and led to some of the best games I've watched. That 2008 App game ranked as my favorite until last year.

#2 Taylor Heinicke....holy crap he's good. And hard to tackle. And a bit of a douche, but he can back it up.

[Apphole]

Mike Hart and Mario Manningham

Still won though.

[GAD]

I'm sure this topic has been done before (but what the hell it's preseason), so let's hear it who's the best player you saw play against your team.
For me it would be a tie between Steve McNair (guy gave our defense fits) and Jerry Rice (seemed like he always got open with the offense they ran).
Rice and McNair yes, remember Earl Holmes, Jajuan Cedar, J. Nunnally(FAMU), Roland Hayes(AAMU), Nathan Black(NWST), Scott Anderson(Gram).

[Lehigh Football Nation]

For me that's an awfully tough call. There are so many - Yale RB Mike McLeod, Holy Cross QB Dom Randolph, Lafayette QB Frank Baur, Delaware QB Pat Devlin, Harvard QB Clifton Dawson, Harvard OL Matt Birk... I'm sure I could come up with a Top 10 (and indeed I might).

2011 NDSU was tough but no one individual stood out.

[Sammy94]

Steve McNair

[813Jag]

Rice and McNair yes, remember Earl Holmes, Jajuan Cedar, J. Nunnally(FAMU), Roland Hayes(AAMU), Nathan Black(NWST), Scott Anderson(Gram).
I remember Nathan Black from East Ascension High
Holmes had like 60 tackles in two games vs SU
I tried to block Nunnally out of my mind xlolx
Scottie didn't hurt us much, Levi Washington killed us.

[SpeedkingATL]

Kevin Long-South Carolina Gamecocks RB
Randy Moss-Marshall-WR
Mike Hart-Michigan-RB
Adrian Peterson-GaSo-RB
Lewis Ivory-Furman-RB
Matt Szcur-Nova-RB
Jason Foster-GaSo-QB/
Joe Flacko-Deleware-QB
Honorable mention to receivers Mellette and Hudgins WRs from Elon that torched Apps secondary like no one else, not even Moss.

[Libertine]

Lang Campbell

[HailSzczur]

Ricky Santos. That man was a wizard with the ball. He had the best play action fake I've ever seen

[Thundar]

Rhett Bomar
That Receiver from Cal Poly Bardon I think

[parr90]

In no particular order:
1. Dion Sanders (although dressed out did not play).
2. Amp Lee. Fla State
3. Ricky Santos. One of those northern schools
4. Larry Centers. SFA
5. Randy Moss. Marshall
6. Willy Lanier. JMU
7. Shannon Sharpe. SSU
8. Garrison Hearst. UGA
9. Todd Gurley. UGA
10. David Pollack. UGA
11. David Green. UGA
12. Few others from UGA
13. Warren Sapp Miami
many more

[cmaxwellgsu]

Armanti- He was just so clutch....
Louis Ivory- Lit us up in 2000

[Waco Kid]

Randy Moss- I'll never forget those green and white striped socks running up and down the turf at KBS.

[eaglewraith]

Ricky Santos. That man was a wizard with the ball. He had the best play action fake I've ever seen

That goddamn Statute of Liberty

[kdinva]

Gene Brown & Stanley Myers: Citadel QB's
Everett Sands, Citadel HB
Brad Hoover, WCU running back.
Dexter Coakley, App. St LB
Randy Moss, Marshall
Leeland Melvin, Richmond, WR
Stan Yagiello, W&M, QB
Eric Johnson, LB, Richmond
Tim Hightower, HB, Richmond
Eric Ward, QB, Richmond
Shawn Barber, LB, Richmond (coach Reid called him "shawn baabaa".)

[Tealblood]

Foster from Ga Southern
QB from ODU last year

[blueballs]

Some individual performances against GSU stand out...

Ottoman Sampson of FAMU lit GSU up in the playoffs to the tune of over 500 yards in the 1997 playoffs.

Marcell Shipp rushed for over 200 yards (I forget the actual # but it was the title game record at the time, broken by AP the next year) in the 1998 championship game.

Louis Ivory went over 300 yards rushing against GSU in 2000.

Taylor Heineke just went ape s--t against GSU in the 2011 playoffs both running and passing... well over 500 total yards and 7 TD's.

Terrell Hudgens in 2008 and Sean Price in 2012 both had over 200 yards receiving and multiple backbreaking TD's.

I know I'm forgetting or overlooking some but those are the 6 that stand out the most off the top of my head.

[walliver]

David Whitehurst (Charlie's father) at Sirrine Stadium in 1976.

[Lehigh'98]

Jerry Azumah for UNH was pretty badass as far as guys I played against. Shipp for UMass as well

[smallcollegefbfan]

Randy Moss. I was just a kid but I do remember that '96 game in Statesboro. Marshall didn't look overly impressive against our not-so-great team that day, but RM was on another level.

#2 would be Armanti Edwards. I watched all four Armanti versus GSU games in person. Seems like he was at App. State forever.

#3 would be Ricky Santos. He was a freshman playing like a senior in that 2004 playoff game.

#4 Would be Taylor Heinecke. Basically 7 quarters of him doing whatever he wanted to until the fourth quarter of the second game where we finally got some stops.

No question about Randy Moss being up there. Randy Moss, Brian Quick, Armanti Edwards, Adrian Peterson, Jayson Foster, Dexter Coakley, Brian Westbrook, Brian Finneran, Kavika Pittman, Ben Ijalana, Steve McNair, Jared Allen, Rashean Mathis, Jerry Azumah, Robert Alford, etc are the best I have ever seen.

As far as the best of the best I think Moss, Coakley, Edwards, Foster, Westbrook, Allen, and Mathis are clearly in that elite class of the best players.

[NDB]

Brock Jensen.

Some of his throws were just ridiculous. Literally tore your heart right our of your a&^.

[MR. CHICKEN]

WAYNE CHREBET..........HOFSTRA
TIM HIGHTOWER..........RICHMOND
RENE INGOGLIA...........UMA$$
DARREN RIZZI.............RHODE ISLAND.............YEAH.....AH SAID RHODE ISLAND!
ADRIAN PETERSON.......GEORGIA SOUTHERN
ARMANTI EDWARDS......APPALACHIAN STATE
RICKY SANTOS.............NEW HAMPSHIRE
RANDY MOSS...............MARSHALL
BRIAN FINNERAN..........NOVA
BRETT GORDON............NOVA
BRIAN WESTBROOK......NOVA

GEEESH.........ANYBODAH.....FROM NOVA.....LATE-LEE...................xeekx........BRAWK!

[LBPop]

Surprised not to see Miles Austin. The Monmouth game was one of the few I missed while the kid played, but I heard then that Austin was the real deal.

[SU_IT_able]

Had to be Steve 'Air' McNair in 1994. Largest home crowd in Samford history and McNair did not disappoint. He broke the Division I-AA career passing yardage record during the game. McNair was 37 of 63 for 563 yards and four TDs. Game ended in a 45-45 tie.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

The QB for Furman in 2001, Napier?!?! He completely lit Lehigh up in the playoffs. Ivory missed the game due to an injury but it didn't matter. Napier went crazy running and throwing the ball.

UD's Pat Devlin in the 3rd quarter during the 2010 playoffs. It was a close game until he had an 8 minute stretch of ridiculous play.

Lehigh's actually been pretty good at keeping elite players from going off...

[aces1180]

Jim Kleinsasser
Vincent Jackson
Eric Decker

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Surprised not to see Miles Austin. The Monmouth game was one of the few I missed while the kid played, but I heard then that Austin was the real deal.

He had over 200 yards against Lehigh in 2005. It was definitely one of the best WR performances I've seen.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Almost forgot RB Dave Meggett on Towson. Look at that Meggett run! Too bad his life has been an absolute mess after football. In school he almost singlehandedly kept them within striking distance of Air Lehigh.

[bulldog10jw]

Offense - Cosmo Iacavazzi (Princeton)
Defense - Reggie Williams (Dartmouth)

[citdog]

Off Randy Moss
Def Rico Mack

[Saint3333]

Nice pull with Rico Mack. That guy wasn't a great form tackler, but when he hit you it didn't matter. Pound for pound the hardest hitter ever at App.

[Chuck Norris]

Colton Heagle

[PaladinFan]

The QB for Furman in 2001, Napier?!?! He completely lit Lehigh up in the playoffs. Ivory missed the game due to an injury but it didn't matter. Napier went crazy running and throwing the ball.

UD's Pat Devlin in the 3rd quarter during the 2010 playoffs. It was a close game until he had an 8 minute stretch of ridiculous play.

Lehigh's actually been pretty good at keeping elite players from going off...

Napier was the guy.

Surprised no one has mentioned Martin or Felton.

[NoCoDanny]

Danny Woodhead

[Apps03]

Napier was the guy.

Surprised no one has mentioned Martin or Felton.

Both of those guys would be on a list of great players. I think it shows the depth of great players long time followers of this conference have seen that guys like that are not mentioned.

[blukeys]

WAYNE CHREBET..........HOFSTRA
TIM HIGHTOWER..........RICHMOND
RENE INGOGLIA...........UMA$$
DARREN RIZZI.............RHODE ISLAND.............YEAH.....AH SAID RHODE ISLAND!
ADRIAN PETERSON.......GEORGIA SOUTHERN
ARMANTI EDWARDS......APPALACHIAN STATE
RICKY SANTOS.............NEW HAMPSHIRE
RANDY MOSS...............MARSHALL
BRIAN FINNERAN..........NOVA
BRETT GORDON............NOVA
BRIAN WESTBROOK......NOVA

GEEESH.........ANYBODAH.....FROM NOVA.....LATE-LEE...................xeekx........BRAWK!

If you are going to pick Nova Players, you forgot Mike Siani who was an all pro in the NFL. Brett Gordon does not belong on this list.

[heath]

xnodxTracy Ham and Charles Haleyxnodx same field

[Grizalltheway]

I saw Armanti Edwards about 4 times more than I cared to.


Sent from the center of the universe.

Only saw him once but he was easily the best.

[HailSzczur]

If you are going to pick Nova Players, you forgot Mike Siani who was an all pro in the NFL. Brett Gordon does not belong on this list.

Brett was more an intangibles guy. As a Sox fan I think he's alot like Dustin Pedroia. Undersized, scrappy, hell of a player. But there were certainly better ones.

[carney2]

Too many to pick only one, so by team:

Bucknell - Tom Mitchell
Colgate - Nick Eachus or Kenny Gamble or Ryan Vena
Fordham - Javarus Dudley (Skelton never played all that well against Lafayette)
Georgetown - Andrew Schaetzke
Holy Cross - Dominic Randolph or Gordie Lockbaum or Jeff Wiley
Lehigh - Phil Stambaugh

Outside the Patriot League:
Harvard - Ryan Fitzpatrick
Columbia - Marcellus Wiley
Yale - Mike McLeod
Princeton - Keith Elias

The disappointing thing is that the list is unbalanced to the offense.

[McNeese72]

A couple of others that I remembered from Northwestern St. Joe Delaney and Mark Duper.

[BigHouseClosedEnd]

Armanti Edwards hands down.

[ncbears]

Danny Woodhead


I agree. One man wrecking crew.

[AppMan]

Have seen so many great players over the years I can't narrow it down to a few. Here are my picks by team from 1975.

SoCon:
The Citadel: Brian Ruff - Stump Mitchell - Jack Douglas - Lester Smith
ECU: Eddie Hicks - Zack Valentine
Elon: Terrell Hudgins
ETSU: Jerry Butler - Todd Wells
Furman: David Whitehurst - Ernest Gibson - Mike Glenn - Stanford Jennings - Orlando Ruff - Louis Ivory - Will Bouton - Jerome Felton
Ga Southern: Greg Hill - Ed Thomas - AP - Arkee Thompson - JR Revere - Freddy Pesqueira - Joe Scott - Jermaine Austin - Chaz Williams - Jayson Foster - Brent Russell
UTC: Wayne Durdan - Willie Gillespie - Terrell Owens
Marshall: Carl Lee - Mike Barber - Michael Payton - Ricky Carter - Shannon King - Chris Parker - Randy Moss - Chad Pennington
WCU: Gerald Harp - Dean Biasucci - Louis Cooper - Kirk Roach - David Patten - David Rivers

Other 1-AA:
Coastal Carolina: Jerome Simpson
Delaware: Joe Flacco
JMU: Gary Clark
Liberty: Eric Green
Montana: Chase Reynolds
Nichols State: Mark Carrier
Northern Iowa: Eric Sanders
UMass: Liam Cohen

Other: LR: Scott Crawford

South Carolina: RB Kevin Long - QB Todd Ellis
Clemson: RB Terrance Flagler - RB Raymond Priester - LB Anthony Simmons
LSU: Trindon Holliday - Danny Beckwith
Marshall: Byron Leftwich
Michigan: Mike Hart, Jake Long, Mario Manningham
NC State: WR Mike Quick
WF: RB James McDougald - QB jay Venuto - RB Tim Ramseur - WR John Henry Mills

[Go...gate]

I've been blessed.

These played against either Colgate or Princeton:

Offensive: Cosmo Iacavazzi (Princeton), Hank Bijorklund (Princeton), Bob Holly (Princeton), Calvin Hill (Yale), Ed Marinaro (Cornell), Joe Morris (Syracuse), Scott Brunner (Delaware), Ray Lucas (Rutgers), John Rienstra (Temple), Gordon Lockbaum (Holy Cross), Marty Domres (Columbia), John Witkowski (Columbia), Marcellus Wiley (Columbia), Napoleon McCallum (Navy), John Rienstra (Temple)

Defensive: Nate Toran (Rutgers), Alex Kroll (Rutgers), Stas Maliszewski (Princeton), Carl Barisch (Princeton), Reggie Williams (Dartmouth), Walker Lee Ashley (Penn State)

[zilla]

Armanti Edwards (2006 FCS Playoffs - App. State vs CCU)

In addition, GSU's Jayson Foster lit us up for like 400+ all-purpose yds in either 07 or 08.

[eaglewraith]

Armanti Edwards (2006 FCS Playoffs - App. State vs CCU)

In addition, GSU's Jayson Foster lit us up for like 400+ all-purpose yds in either 07 or 08.

2007

And 6 rushing TD's ;)

[seantaylor]

Marcel Shipp

[Sader87]

A laundry list of BC lineman, Flutie, Howie Long (Nova), van eeGhan (Colgate RB) off the top of my head.

[CFBfan]

He had over 200 yards against Lehigh in 2005. It was definitely one of the best WR performances I've seen.

sorta contrdicts your previous post: "Lehigh's actually been pretty good at keeping elite players from going off... "

[boonegoon]

There are a lot of good players that played against App, but one that sticks out in my head is Brad Hoover.

[bluehenbillk]

Randy Moss, Brian Westbrook, Ricky Santos.

[MR. CHICKEN]

17791
If you are going to pick Nova Players, you forgot Mike Siani who was an all pro in the NFL. Brett Gordon does not belong on this list.


17792.....FO' ANYONE....WHO THINKS...OL' BRETT.....SHOODAH HELD DUH CLIPBOARD........AWK!


http://www.villanova.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/gordon_brett00.html

[CID1990]

Have seen so many great players over the years I can't narrow it down to a few. Here are my picks by team from 1975.

SoCon:
The Citadel: Brian Ruff - Stump Mitchell - Jack Douglas - Lester Smith
ECU: Eddie Hicks - Zack Valentine
Elon: Terrell Hudgins
ETSU: Jerry Butler - Todd Wells
Furman: David Whitehurst - Ernest Gibson - Mike Glenn - Stanford Jennings - Orlando Ruff - Louis Ivory - Will Bouton - Jerome Felton
Ga Southern: Greg Hill - Ed Thomas - AP - Arkee Thompson - JR Revere - Freddy Pesqueira - Joe Scott - Jermaine Austin - Chaz Williams - Jayson Foster - Brent Russell
UTC: Wayne Durdan - Willie Gillespie - Terrell Owens
Marshall: Carl Lee - Mike Barber - Michael Payton - Ricky Carter - Shannon King - Chris Parker - Randy Moss - Chad Pennington
WCU: Gerald Harp - Dean Biasucci - Louis Cooper - Kirk Roach - David Patten - David Rivers

Other 1-AA:
Coastal Carolina: Jerome Simpson
Delaware: Joe Flacco
JMU: Gary Clark
Liberty: Eric Green
Montana: Chase Reynolds
Nichols State: Mark Carrier
Northern Iowa: Eric Sanders
UMass: Liam Cohen

Other: LR: Scott Crawford

South Carolina: RB Kevin Long - QB Todd Ellis
Clemson: RB Terrance Flagler - RB Raymond Priester - LB Anthony Simmons
LSU: Trindon Holliday - Danny Beckwith
Marshall: Byron Leftwich
Michigan: Mike Hart, Jake Long, Mario Manningham
NC State: WR Mike Quick
WF: RB James McDougald - QB jay Venuto - RB Tim Ramseur - WR John Henry Mills

Good call with Brian Ruff.

Check out the pic: all those big schools, and then little 'ol The Citadel.

http://www.mmbolding.com/Playboy/1976_Playboy_All_American_Team.htm

He was one of the great SoCon LBs.

[darell1976]

Heath Sherman, Johnny Bailey (Texas A&I), Jeff Bentrim, Chris Simdorn, basically the NDSU teams of the 80s.

[Go Green]

Check out the pic: all those big schools, and then little 'ol The Citadel.



Dartmouth has (or at least had) similar posters in its training room with 1970s All-Americans Murry Bowden and Reggie Williams posing with the SEC, Pac-10, Big-10 guys. I always loved looking at 'em. :D

[Bisonator]

1. Ronald Moore from Pittsburg State in the early '90s.

2. Rhett Bomar with SHSU.

3. Bo Levi Mitchell with EWU.

Sure I'm forgetting quite a few!

[Blazerbird]

Marc Mariani in WGS in '09. His 82 yard return for TD vs EWU was a killer.

[AppMan]

Good call with Brian Ruff.

Check out the pic: all those big schools, and then little 'ol The Citadel.

http://www.mmbolding.com/Playboy/1976_Playboy_All_American_Team.htm

He was one of the great SoCon LBs.

He was a man among boys.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

sorta contrdicts your previous post: "Lehigh's actually been pretty good at keeping elite players from going off... "

He really didn't hurt Lehigh though. He got a bunch of yards but no "real" damage was done.

[PantherRob82]

Joe Flacco?

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

Joe Flacco?

Dude get real.............Flacco isnt top 20

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

[Wallace]

Joe Flacco?

You mean, of course, Ricky Santos xsmiley_wix

[mmiller_34]

Shakir Bell @ SDSU in 2011. Just killed us. No one could touch him.

[AppMan]

Dude get real.............Flacco isnt top 20

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

In two years at Delaware he only threw for 7046 yards, 41 TD's, a 63% completion percentage and a 136.85 QB rating. In the 2007 NC game I saw him throw for 334 yards with no int's against a pretty darn good Mountaineer secondary while getting chased and hit all night by our D-line. App's ability to stop Delaware's running game and them not being able to stop ours was the key to our W. It wasn't for Flacco not doing his part.

[Saint3333]

That was with UD WR having alligator arms all night.

[smallcollegefbfan]

In two years at Delaware he only threw for 7046 yards, 41 TD's, a 63% completion percentage and a 136.85 QB rating. In the 2007 NC game I saw him throw for 334 yards with no int's against a pretty darn good Mountaineer secondary while getting chased and hit all night by our D-line. App's ability to stop Delaware's running game and them not being able to stop ours was the key to our W. It wasn't for Flacco not doing his part.

The thread asked who was the best player we have seen and not who the most physically impressive was. DRC, Flacco, Rashean Mathis, Randy Moss, and Jared Allen were the most physically impressive players I have ever seen in FCS but Flacco was just a good, not elite player. The size and rocket arm, along with toughness were impressive but he was inconsistent in his play, not always accurate, and tended to favor throwing to one side of the field a lot more, along with the fact his footwork and reading of defenses needed a lot of improvement. He's gotten a good bit better since college. I try not to let pro production cloud the judgement of what some players were in college. There are many instances where a player was a late bloomer and really hit his full stride in the pros. I'd like to see Flacco in FCS now. I'm sure he would be the best QB for sure while he was probably the 3rd or 4th best player at the QB position his senior year.

Jayson Foster, Josh Johnson, and Armanti Edwards all had better years that season.

Speaking of Johnson he should be included in the group of the best players I ever saw in I-AA/FCS. Pioneer League players are usually nowhere close to elite but Johnson was special. He could have played in the SEC and been a solid player. He's shown that by being a solid backup in the NFL. He was the best player ever in the Pioneer League from what I have seen on tape. He was truly special and I would put him at 5-6 among all-time top I-AA/FCS QBs I have seen behind Foster, Edwards, Dave Dickenson, and Tony Romo.

[smallcollegefbfan]

That was with UD WR having alligator arms all night.

Go back and look at that tape. You could argue had Flacco just had a good FCS arm (instead of elite NFL arm) and been 6'3 220 instead of 6'6 235 that App could have hurt him. They got to him all night and had him looking over his shoulder the entire game. The tackles could not block the APP DEs and Flacco was flustered big time. Flacco showed me in college he was a good player but needed great players to win. You can win with Flacco (obviously) but he has to have people around him. He's not like Peyton Manning who can do it by himself. Flacco must have at least 2-3 lethal weapons to throw or hand off to and a good line.

[smallcollegefbfan]

The TSN voting that year (2007) was really messed up. Go look at the teams. Even back then I was screaming for the following changes but voters just didn't see it my way.

1. Mike Tolbert should have been first-team. I said it back then. He was a NFL player and a lot of scouts told me I was wrong. They also told his agent and I laughed because I BEGGED the all-star game I was working with to take him. He was an underrated player and the best RB in Big South history outside of Jennings from Liberty. I think he could have passed Jennings had they given him the ball for four years.

2. Andre Roberts should have been 1st team along with Hudgins or above him. Roberts was by far a better player than Hudgins and I screamed that year in year out.

3. Bryan Smith should have been 1st team.

4. 3-4 of the App players should not have been on the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd teams. Those teams were voted on after the title game so it looked biased.

5. The following players on HM should have been 1st or 2nd team: Rashad Jennings, Demetrius Bell, James Lee, Jerome Simpson, Colt Anderson, and Clay Harbor.

6. Joe Mays should have been 1st team.
http://www.sportsnetwork.com/merge/tsnform.aspx?c=sportsnetwork&page=cfoot2/stat/IAA-07-team.htm

[ngineer]

Ed Marinaro of Cornell. He rolled for about 180 yards against us.

[Houndawg]

Go back and look at that tape. You could argue had Flacco just had a good FCS arm (instead of elite NFL arm) and been 6'3 220 instead of 6'6 235 that App could have hurt him. They got to him all night and had him looking over his shoulder the entire game. The tackles could not block the APP DEs and Flacco was flustered big time. Flacco showed me in college he was a good player but needed great players to win. You can win with Flacco (obviously) but he has to have people around him. He's not like Peyton Manning who can do it by himself. Flacco must have at least 2-3 lethal weapons to throw or hand off to and a good line.

I saw him beat SIU 20-17 in the semis - he had a good game and imo was the difference in the game, (along with two TDs called back for lineman downfield). That said I found myself wondering what the fuss was about. Clearly he was good but I didn't think he was that. He made some nice throws under heavy pressure, once with a DE hanging off him. Best performance I saw against SIU was Eric Meyer from EWU. he and Brandon Jacobs put on a hell of a show which SIU came out on the short end of, unfortunately.

[AppMan]

The thread asked who was the best player we have seen and not who the most physically impressive was. DRC, Flacco, Rashean Mathis, Randy Moss, and Jared Allen were the most physically impressive players I have ever seen in FCS but Flacco was just a good, not elite player. The size and rocket arm, along with toughness were impressive but he was inconsistent in his play, not always accurate, and tended to favor throwing to one side of the field a lot more, along with the fact his footwork and reading of defenses needed a lot of improvement. He's gotten a good bit better since college. I try not to let pro production cloud the judgement of what some players were in college. There are many instances where a player was a late bloomer and really hit his full stride in the pros. I'd like to see Flacco in FCS now. I'm sure he would be the best QB for sure while he was probably the 3rd or 4th best player at the QB position his senior year.

Jayson Foster, Josh Johnson, and Armanti Edwards all had better years that season.

Speaking of Johnson he should be included in the group of the best players I ever saw in I-AA/FCS. Pioneer League players are usually nowhere close to elite but Johnson was special. He could have played in the SEC and been a solid player. He's shown that by being a solid backup in the NFL. He was the best player ever in the Pioneer League from what I have seen on tape. He was truly special and I would put him at 5-6 among all-time top I-AA/FCS QBs I have seen behind Foster, Edwards, Dave Dickenson, and Tony Romo.

I realize what the thread asked for and as a prerequisite to my post I said I couldn't narrow it down to just one and listed the players I've personally seen play the Apps. I've been watching football a long time and that night in Chattanooga Flacco was one of the best QB's I ever saw step on the field against the Mountaineers. Of all the QB's you listed you say is better than Flacco none has achieved the success in the NFL as he has.

[AppMan]

Go back and look at that tape. You could argue had Flacco just had a good FCS arm (instead of elite NFL arm) and been 6'3 220 instead of 6'6 235 that App could have hurt him. They got to him all night and had him looking over his shoulder the entire game. The tackles could not block the APP DEs and Flacco was flustered big time. Flacco showed me in college he was a good player but needed great players to win. You can win with Flacco (obviously) but he has to have people around him. He's not like Peyton Manning who can do it by himself. Flacco must have at least 2-3 lethal weapons to throw or hand off to and a good line.

I've watched the game a dozen times. Delaware was a 6-7 win team without Flacco. Because of him they played for a national championship.

[citdog]

I've watched the game a dozen times. Delaware was a 6-7 win team without Flacco. Because of him they played for a national championship.


I'll bet you will watch it a million more times when your last game is played in November for the next 30 years. You'll be just like The Citadel USED to be!

ENJOY!
don't fall off the bandwagon.

[Apphole]

I'll bet you will watch it a million more times when your last game is played in November for the next 30 years. You'll be just like The Citadel USED to be!

ENJOY!
don't fall off the bandwagon.

You know, we played in the same league as the big boys before being relegated to the FCS just like The Bellhops did.

[smallcollegefbfan]

I realize what the thread asked for and as a prerequisite to my post I said I couldn't narrow it down to just one and listed the players I've personally seen play the Apps. I've been watching football a long time and that night in Chattanooga Flacco was one of the best QB's I ever saw step on the field against the Mountaineers. Of all the QB's you listed you say is better than Flacco none has achieved the success in the NFL as he has.

It's funny because I'm the one always talking about the NFL. I have always said that Flacco is one of the most physically gifted stong arm passers I have ever seen. My point is that of the QBs I listed Flacco had the least success in college in terms of stats, awards, and career totals. Back then I knew Flacco would be a high pick but that was because of the 6'6 frame and rocket arm. You give him an average arm and make him 3 inches shorter and he doesn't go higher than the 5th-6th round. My whole point is that arm strength is not the only way to judge a QB and there are more traits. He was the most physically gifted QB of that bunch for sure but he was the worst in terms of numbers of that group. I don't remember a single App fan saying what you just said right after the game. Hindsight is 20/20 and my opinion is that you are letting his NFL success cloud your ranking of him as a college player. Flacco has become a better pro than college player because of coaching and the fact he has better talent around him.

Flacco had 334 yards and one touchdown in that game and yes I think App got a lot of pressure on him but he lost the game and did not do as well as others had against them.

The only problem with your answer is that Flacco is the best NFL player of that group but he was not the most productive college player. He was a very good player but you have to remember that he was only a 3rd team All-American based on his numbers that season. He averaged 284 yards a game and was 63%. Because of how well he did in the playoffs he ended up with over 4,000 yards but he was only 3rd in the CAA in completion percentage that year and wasn't in the top 5 in the country that one year.

I remember back then projecting late 1st or early 2nd round but one thing you have to remember is that we judge players based more than just size or arm strength.

Look at Dexter Coakley. He was by far one of the lest impressive linebackers in terms of height and length you will find but he could run and was the best tackler and playmaker to ever play linebacker in I-AA. Coakley has had a better pro career than Flacco but yet his pro career would have no bearing on this thread. Coakley was a two-time Buchanan Award winner and three-time All-American. Flacco wasn't even a two-time All-American and didn't finish in the top 10 in the Payton voting his senior year.

[smallcollegefbfan]

I've watched the game a dozen times. Delaware was a 6-7 win team without Flacco. Because of him they played for a national championship.

In Flacco's defense they had just two average receivers but Love and Duncan weren't even in the top 3 had they played for App. UD had talent but Cuff and Flacco were their best players. I wouldn't say they would not have won more than 7 games without Flacco though because I'm sure they would have found another transfer but he certainly made them better.

Think of it this way. If you took Foster away from GSU, Johnson from San Diego, etc. none of those teams would have been nearly as successful during their final seasons as well. Flacco had the best pro upside and all the scouts and myself included knew that but he didn't have the best career of all of those guys. I try to look at a player's career as opposed to a 6 game stretch or how they did in the pros when someone asks who the best player you saw play against your team.

[GeauxLions94]

My list isn't very long time-wise since we only brought back football 10 years ago, but In no particular order

Vincent Jackson (Northern Colorado) - the only thing that could apparently slow him down was a tropical storm in 2004
Lardarrius Webb (Nicholls State) - Electrifying player; SLU's Jay Lucas blew past him and the next player on 60-yard TD run in third quarter
Kareem Moore (Nicholls State) - drafted by Washington

Barrick Nealy (Texas State)
Rhett Bomar (Sam Houston State)
Tim Flanders (Sam Houston State)
Bryan Smith (McNeese State)
Tim Knicky (Stephen F. Austin)
Cordell Roberson (Stephen F. Austin)
Derrick Fourroux (McNeese State)
Nathan Brown (Central Arkansas)
Larry Hart (Central Arkansas)
Noah Shepherd (South Dakota)

[TheRevSFA]

My list isn't very long time-wise since we only brought back football 10 years ago, but In no particular order

Vincent Jackson (Northern Colorado) - the only thing that could apparently slow him down was a tropical storm in 2004
Lardarrius Webb (Nicholls State) - Electrifying player; SLU's Jay Lucas blew past him and the next player on 60-yard TD run in third quarter
Kareem Moore (Nicholls State)
Barrick Nealy (Texas State)
Rhett Bomar (Sam Houston State)
Tim Flanders (Sam Houston State)
Bryan Smith (McNeese State)
Tim Knicky (Stephen F. Austin)
Derrick Fourroux (McNeese State)
Nathan Brown (Central Arkansas)
Noah Shepherd (South Dakota)

I'm surprised you left off Jeremy Moses

[TheRevSFA]

I guess I should add Robert Alford to my list. That guy is going to go far in the NFL.

[813Jag]

My list isn't very long time-wise since we only brought back football 10 years ago, but In no particular order

Vincent Jackson (Northern Colorado) - the only thing that could apparently slow him down was a tropical storm in 2004
Lardarrius Webb (Nicholls State) - Electrifying player; SLU's Jay Lucasblew past him and the next player on 60-yard TD run in third quarter
Kareem Moore (Nicholls State)
Barrick Nealy (Texas State)
Rhett Bomar (Sam Houston State)
Tim Flanders (Sam Houston State)
Bryan Smith (McNeese State)
Tim Knicky (Stephen F. Austin)
Derrick Fourroux (McNeese State)
Nathan Brown (Central Arkansas)
Noah Shepherd (South Dakota)
My neighbor back home, didn't see him play for the Lions, but I watched him tote the rock in high school. Hell of a back.

[THE HERD]

1) Rhett Bomar
2) GSU's current QB..cant remember his name right now
3) Vincent Jackson
4) Ramses Bardon
5) Jim Kleinsasser

[theasushow]

I remember the '07 playoff game against JMU and Rodney Landers sliced and diced through the ASU defense from beginning to end, ASU couldnt stop him.

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

Without question it was Armanti Edwards.......second is a very very distant second....and that would be Dexter Coakley

Then Ramses Barden

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

[Accelerati Incredibilus]

I'll bet you will watch it a million more times when your last game is played in November for the next 30 years. You'll be just like The Citadel USED to be!

ENJOY!
don't fall off the bandwagon.

Considering ULL plays So Alabama Dec 7 this year I'd say chances are pretty good our next 30 seasons won't be over in November. xlolx. I'm confident ASU will be in post season play in a few years. If I am reading the tea leaves correctly in a few years there will be a playoff for the Group of Five.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Here's one, Army QB Ronnie McAda...

He went off against a pretty good Lehigh team (8-3, League Champs) in 1995 at Michie Stadium. Army nearly beat ND at the Meadowlands later that year. McAda was actually stopped on a failed 2 pt conversion attempt. He would lead the Black Knights to a 10-2 record in 1996 and a #25 ranking in the final poll. He was a helluva player.

[AppMan]

It's funny because I'm the one always talking about the NFL. I have always said that Flacco is one of the most physically gifted stong arm passers I have ever seen. My point is that of the QBs I listed Flacco had the least success in college in terms of stats, awards, and career totals. Back then I knew Flacco would be a high pick but that was because of the 6'6 frame and rocket arm. You give him an average arm and make him 3 inches shorter and he doesn't go higher than the 5th-6th round. My whole point is that arm strength is not the only way to judge a QB and there are more traits. He was the most physically gifted QB of that bunch for sure but he was the worst in terms of numbers of that group. I don't remember a single App fan saying what you just said right after the game. Hindsight is 20/20 and my opinion is that you are letting his NFL success cloud your ranking of him as a college player. Flacco has become a better pro than college player because of coaching and the fact he has better talent around him.

Flacco had 334 yards and one touchdown in that game and yes I think App got a lot of pressure on him but he lost the game and did not do as well as others had against them.

The only problem with your answer is that Flacco is the best NFL player of that group but he was not the most productive college player. He was a very good player but you have to remember that he was only a 3rd team All-American based on his numbers that season. He averaged 284 yards a game and was 63%. Because of how well he did in the playoffs he ended up with over 4,000 yards but he was only 3rd in the CAA in completion percentage that year and wasn't in the top 5 in the country that one year.

I remember back then projecting late 1st or early 2nd round but one thing you have to remember is that we judge players based more than just size or arm strength.

Look at Dexter Coakley. He was by far one of the lest impressive linebackers in terms of height and length you will find but he could run and was the best tackler and playmaker to ever play linebacker in I-AA. Coakley has had a better pro career than Flacco but yet his pro career would have no bearing on this thread. Coakley was a two-time Buchanan Award winner and three-time All-American. Flacco wasn't even a two-time All-American and didn't finish in the top 10 in the Payton voting his senior year.


ONCE AGAIN! I am speaking to the performance I saw Flacco give vs ASU. What I saw that night impressed me. He evidently had some talent or he wouldn't be where he is today. What Coakley and Edwards did during their college careers has no bearing on Flacco's. Armanti was an exhilarating QB who was fortunate to play in the perfect offense for his skill set. Had he been a receiver in a power run game system he would probably be just another name. Dexter fit perfectly into Ruffin McNeil's defensive scheme. Flacco didn't fit in Pitt's system then found a perfect at Delaware he could thrive in. It is completely foolish to do side by side comparisons and I don't understand why all you self proclaimed guru's are so fixated with them. Play the games and see who wins. One's career does not make or break the other's.

I've only been watching college football for close to 40 years, which is probably 20 years longer than you've been alive, you obviously see yourself as a superior judge of talent. I do not project drafts and don't understand why anyone who isn't actually employed by an NFL team takes the time to do so. Considering you used "we" when telling me how players are judged for draft purposes, I suppose you consider yourself to be a draft expert. Today's draft guru's simply plug in data and whoever makes the highest grade is the better player. Other than the top 20 - 30 can't miss players, more often than not they miss by a mile because most have never played a down of football above the Jr High school level - if they ever played - and fail to consider all the intangibles that go into making a good football player. I can't think of a more a foolish way to determine a player's worth than by today's modern computer driven way of grading of players.

BTW, I find it amusing you are "educating" me about Coakley and Edwards.

[PaladinFan]

ONCE AGAIN! I am speaking to the performance I saw Flacco give vs ASU. What I saw that night impressed me. He evidently had some talent or he wouldn't be where he is today. What Coakley and Edwards did during their college careers has no bearing on Flacco's. Armanti was an exhilarating QB who was fortunate to play in the perfect offense for his skill set. Had he been a receiver in a power run game system he would probably be just another name. Dexter fit perfectly into Ruffin McNeil's defensive scheme. Flacco didn't fit in Pitt's system then found a perfect at Delaware he could thrive in. It is completely foolish to do side by side comparisons and I don't understand why all you self proclaimed guru's are so fixated with them. Play the games and see who wins. One's career does not make or break the other's.

I've only been watching college football for close to 40 years, which is probably 20 years longer than you've been alive, you obviously see yourself as a superior judge of talent. I do not project drafts and don't understand why anyone who isn't actually employed by an NFL team takes the time to do so. Considering you used "we" when telling me how players are judged for draft purposes, I suppose you consider yourself to be a draft expert. Today's draft guru's simply plug in data and whoever makes the highest grade is the better player. Other than the top 20 - 30 can't miss players, more often than not they miss by a mile because most have never played a down of football above the Jr High school level - if they ever played - and fail to consider all the intangibles that go into making a good football player. I can't think of a more a foolish way to determine a player's worth than by today's modern computer driven way of grading of players.

BTW, I find it amusing you are "educating" me about Coakley and Edwards.

It is common for NFL teams to pick no-talent hacks faking their way through the college game in the first round of the draft. Isn't it?

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

Jamarcus Russell
Akili Smith and
Tony Mandarich all agree with you!

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

[smallcollegefbfan]

ONCE AGAIN! I am speaking to the performance I saw Flacco give vs ASU. What I saw that night impressed me. He evidently had some talent or he wouldn't be where he is today. What Coakley and Edwards did during their college careers has no bearing on Flacco's. Armanti was an exhilarating QB who was fortunate to play in the perfect offense for his skill set. Had he been a receiver in a power run game system he would probably be just another name. Dexter fit perfectly into Ruffin McNeil's defensive scheme. Flacco didn't fit in Pitt's system then found a perfect at Delaware he could thrive in. It is completely foolish to do side by side comparisons and I don't understand why all you self proclaimed guru's are so fixated with them. Play the games and see who wins. One's career does not make or break the other's.

I've only been watching college football for close to 40 years, which is probably 20 years longer than you've been alive, you obviously see yourself as a superior judge of talent. I do not project drafts and don't understand why anyone who isn't actually employed by an NFL team takes the time to do so. Considering you used "we" when telling me how players are judged for draft purposes, I suppose you consider yourself to be a draft expert. Today's draft guru's simply plug in data and whoever makes the highest grade is the better player. Other than the top 20 - 30 can't miss players, more often than not they miss by a mile because most have never played a down of football above the Jr High school level - if they ever played - and fail to consider all the intangibles that go into making a good football player. I can't think of a more a foolish way to determine a player's worth than by today's modern computer driven way of grading of players.

BTW, I find it amusing you are "educating" me about Coakley and Edwards.

Yes the talent of Flacco was evident in that game and one of the best performances. You are going to say him because of what he did in that game but I was speaking to what he did in his career.

I said we because I am contracted independently by NFL teams to help with player lists, ratings, evals, and I even do some data research such as stat analysis on draft picks, stats by position per round, positions most drafted, types of players drafted by specific teams, etc.

I don't grade players by a computer system. I grade them based on their skill set, talent, upside, what they accomplish, etc. There are some trends in certain modern day computer calculations but at the end of the day I go by the film.

And to your point about watching football for 40 years. How long you have watched it does not matter. Yes, the more you watch the better off but because I have been watching for 50 years and you have been watching for 52 years doesn't mean you are a better evaluator. I'll take 20 years of learning from GMs, scouts, NFL and college coaches, working for all-star games, etc over 50 years of just being a fan. Not saying you are and I'm sure you know a good player when you see it but you know good App players and probably haven't seen what those of us or close to the NFL have seen. Such as I'm sure you watch one App game each week and then maybe 3-4 games casually each week. I have to watch about 50 games per week when all is said and done. I spend as much time on D3 film as you do App State film, then I watch all the App games, any team in FCS who has a legit prospect, and then you have to watch the FBS film. I did the math this past year and figured out that during the fall I watch about 20 TV games a week, then I go through and watch them on coach's tape, plus another 20-25 games per week that were not on TV or the internet at all.

I saw probably 35 games of Coakley and Edwards in college. You have to remember that NFL teams probably saw those guys as much as you did because App is a school where NFL teams automatically go in to or watch on tape regardless because there is always talent.

And to the comment on my ability to judge talent I'll say that I just know the facts. I spend many many hours each year looking at how I have done in the past, types of players I missed on, etc.

I won't say to you that I'm great but I will say that I kept telling the teams I'm close with about Dexter Jackson being a bust, Edwards was a 5th-6th round value (not a 2nd-3rd), Coakley would be a stud, etc from App. Very few players have done a lot more or a lot less than what I had them pegged to do. Lardarius Webb was probably my biggest miss in all my time doing it as I had him as a mid round pick and should have given him a high 2nd round value grade among FCS players. I also think Webb should be thrown in with what others do.

[smallcollegefbfan]

It is common for NFL teams to pick no-talent hacks faking their way through the college game in the first round of the draft. Isn't it?

I never said Flacco was a no talent hack. With his physical tools and ability he should have been the Walter Payton Award winner but he didn't have the numbers. You have to remember that he went to the Senior Bowl and was 6'6 with a rocket arm. He was basically the most physically talented QB in his draft class but because of his production and lack of consistency he was not the first QB taken. QB is always drawn up and even with the best arm and size in the draft he was taken in the 20s. Had he been lights out and done what Steve McNair did in college he would have been a top 3 pick.

I said that Flacco had the best physical tools and upside of any FCS QB I have seen. He just didn't have the best career, or even a top 10 career among QBs. I can name you a lot of resumes who were more impressive than his is my entire point.

And for the record there have been a TON of no talent hacks taken in the first round. Let's see Akili Smith, JaMarcus Russell, Vince Young, Vernon Gholston, Mike Mamula, Troy Williamson, Jamal Reynolds, Courtney Brown, Tim Couch, Lamar King, Ryan Leaf, and Braylon Edwards are just a few of the many big time wasted first round picks there were. There have been a lot of players taken in the first round who were awful and had no business going that high. There were a few this year who will be awful pros as there always are.

[GeauxLions94]

I'm surprised you left off Jeremy Moses

Jeremy was a good QB with a great group of WRs (Cordell Roberson, Gralyn Crawford, etc.) ... But I liked Danny Southall better (thought he was a better threat under MacFarland)


I guess I should add Robert Alford to my list. That guy is going to go far in the NFL.

Yes he will, even though it's with the Dirty Birds


My neighbor back home, didn't see him (Jay Lucas) play for the Lions, but I watched him tote the rock in high school. Hell of a back.

Jay was a great RB coming out of Redemptorist High School in Baton Rouge and I was surprised he didn't go to LSU ... from 2006-08, had three pretty good seasons in Hammond (where his father played basketball for SLU in the early 70's) after transferring from Texas A&M. Lost some weight and was a flat out beast in 2007 and really thought he'd be a possible NFL pick after his senior year in 2008, but didn't come back in great shape and never really got untracked.

[Tribal]

Brian Westbrook, and Matt Szczur.

Absolutely. Szczur is a major reason why W&M didn't win the NC in '09. Kid was a pure athlete.

[Screamin_Eagle174]

3. Bo Levi Mitchell with EWU.

Sure I'm forgetting quite a few!

No disrespect to BLM, but I laughed at this. Taiwan was a much better player. Kaufman as well.




Best player I saw (in person) play against EWU would probably be UW's Desmond Trufant in 2011. Best player that I haven't seen but since I've been an EWU fan, probably Cal's Jahvid Best, or Texas Tech's Michael Crabtree. FCS... either Marc Mariani or Trumaine Johnson.

[HailSzczur]

Absolutely. Szczur is a major reason why W&M didn't win the NC in '09. Kid was a pure athlete.

You can go even farther and say his fake punt was the reason you guys didn't win the NC that year. That was one of the best games I've ever seen live. That 90+ TD was one of the bigger defensive lapses I've seen Nova make.

[Chuck Norris]

I cant believe that Adrian Peterson isn't listed more! The guy had something like 9,500 yards rushing in college. And around 55 strait 100 yard rushing games(counting all the playoff games). No one could stop him. Everyone knew he was getting the rock and still nothing? Funny thing is he sat out of the second half or at least the 4th quarter in about 65% of the games he played in because the score was so one sided. Imagine what is numbers would have been if he played all four quarters of every game.