Big Sky should look toward NDSU

[darell1976]

http://www.grandforksherald.com/event/article/id/262919/


The Big Sky Conference is looking for a travel partner for UND.


It shouldn’t be looking too far.


An ideal addition sits just 75 miles away — UND’s longtime rival, North Dakota State.


The Big Sky Conference denied NDSU admission about 10 years ago, but times and circumstances have changed (and, in hindsight, adding both NDSU and UND a decade ago probably would have been a good move for the league).


Adding NDSU would immediately give UND a true travel partner. It would give the conference a school that is institutionally like others in the league. It would add to the league’s strength in both football and men’s basketball.

But it’s doubtful that NDSU is comfortable in the Summit League right now. It’s a league where nobody seems particularly content. In the last 23 years, 21 teams have jumped ship. It’s a nice stopping spot, but nobody outside of Western Illinois stays.


There’s no sign of it slowing down, either.


Four teams have left the league in the last three years. Several reports say Oakland University will join that group and take a spot in the Horizon League soon — a move that Oakland has publicly wanted for a decade.


If Oakland does leave, the Summit is down to eight teams. With the remaining squads surely looking at other opportunities, it doesn’t leave the league in a strong position.

I don't see the BSC admitting NDSU as a full member. But NDSU could be in a corner if the choices were either leave the MVFC and join the BSC as a full member or stay put in the MVFC and remain in the Summit where you could lose AQ status in basketball and baseball. Most logic choice would to ask NDSU to join as an associate member and remain in the MVFC.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

http://www.grandforksherald.com/event/article/id/262919/



I don't see the BSC admitting NDSU as a full member. But NDSU could be in a corner if the choices were either leave the MVFC and join the BSC as a full member or stay put in the MVFC and remain in the Summit where you could lose AQ status in basketball and baseball. Most logic choice would to ask NDSU to join as an associate member and remain in the MVFC.

You seem to think that the BSC has the best negotiating position. Not really the case.

[darell1976]

You seem to think that the BSC has the best negotiating position. Not really the case.

Its more I can see Fullerton giving NDSU those two options either dump both conference for the Big Sky or nothing. Since there isn't any non-football members of the Big Sky (Idaho is the exception).

[Twentysix]

Its more I can see Fullerton giving NDSU those two options either dump both conference for the Big Sky or nothing. Since there isn't any non-football members of the Big Sky (Idaho is the exception).

So you are saying there is a non football member of the big sky.

[darell1976]

So you are saying there is a non football member of the big sky.

Idaho starts in 2014-2015 so technically as of now there is no non-football members playing in the Big Sky.

This post on SS tells about how bad the SL got:
http://forum.siouxsports.com/topic/18321-what-conference-will-the-other-dakotas-be-in-2015/page__st__60#entry628773

SiouxVolley:

For the sport that falls under six members, the 2-year grace period is only good "provided the conference maintains at least five Division I members." Since Summit baseball had now fallen under five (to four), the 2-year grace period for baseball is gone (if there are no new baseball teams by July), and the conference at large will be under a 2-yr grace period for its basketball autobid for failing to meet the definition of a multisports conference.

31.3.4.4.3 Grace Period. A conference shall remain eligible for automatic qualification for two years following the date of the withdrawal of the institution(s) that causes the conference’s membership to fall below six institutions that sponsor the sport and conduct conference competition together provided the conference maintains at least five Division I members. (Adopted: 8/5/04, Revised: 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11)

[darell1976]

http://www.grandforksherald.com/event/article/id/262923


The college football landscape is rapidly transforming. So, where are we heading?


There are no definitive answers — only a laundry list of hypothetical possibilities.


As the veteran commissioner of the Big Sky Conference, Doug Fullerton is at the forefront of these swift changes.


Fullerton met with Big Sky athletic directors in late April during the league’s annual meeting. The chief topic: The constant conference shifting on the national scene and where that leaves the Big Sky, a league in which UND just completed its first season.


Fullerton compares the planning strategy to how his administration waited out the actions of the Western Athletic Conference, a league that is struggling to survive and won’t play football during the 2013-14 season.


When WAC football fell apart in the past year, the Big Sky quickly snatched up Idaho, which has since decided to join the Sun Belt for football and the Big Sky for the remainder of its sports. Fullerton was able to swoop in because he already had the blessing of his members from playing out this scenario in previous meetings.


“When that was unfolding, we could take immediate action and didn’t have to get in a debate,” Fullerton said. “It’s a scenario type of thing. There are scenarios we should be role-playing depending on what happens.”


Fullerton said if the Big Sky was to join the FBS ranks, the league might be attractive to Idaho again for football.


Although he wouldn’t name specific targets, Fullerton added other expansion is being discussed.


“There are others who would help us put together some rivalries,” Fullerton said. “But, I haven’t talked to any schools or commissioners … our conference going to 16 (teams)? Is that the end game?”


Another element of expansion is to address the league’s travel trouble. The league stretches from the West Coast to Grand Forks and encompasses three time zones.


“We do have UND, which we enjoy as a partner, sitting on an island,” Fullerton said. “If we develop divisions, that mitigates some of the travel that we face.”

[Professor Chaos]

I have no doubt the Big Sky would love to have NDSU. Both from the context of the quality of NDSU's athletic programs (not just football) and the ability to offset the geographic outlier than UND is. I also have no doubt that NDSU football loves its current home. I think the BSC's only hope for attracting NDSU is for the Summit League to crumble. It is on pretty shaky ground right now but it's not in WAC territory yet. Even having said that I think there is still a pretty strong bond between the leadership at NDSU and SDSU and I'm not sure that either is willing to move laterally without the other.

[darell1976]

I have no doubt the Big Sky would love to have NDSU. Both from the context of the quality of NDSU's athletic programs (not just football) and the ability to offset the geographic outlier than UND is. I also have no doubt that NDSU football loves its current home. I think the BSC's only hope for attracting NDSU is for the Summit League to crumble. It is on pretty shaky ground right now but it's not in WAC territory yet. Even having said that I think there is still a pretty strong bond between the leadership at NDSU and SDSU and I'm not sure that either is willing to move laterally without the other.

That was going to be my question to you. Could either one leave the other, then what does USD do? They rejected the BSC so do they get another chance or does the BSC tell them to take a hike. Should be an interesting summer/fall.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

That was going to be my question to you. Could either one leave the other, then what does USD do? They rejected the BSC so do they get another chance or does the BSC tell them to take a hike. Should be an interesting summer/fall.

From this point on, the (other) Dakota schools are going to stick together. You can count on that.

[darell1976]

From this point on, the (other) Dakota schools are going to stick together. You can count on that.

Kinda puts SDSU in a bind. If the BSC wanted SDSU for either all or non-football membership but not USD (because of what USD did to them) could they get the SDBoR on board to join the Big Sky or would the board say no to splitting them up.

[UNDBIZ]

Kinda puts SDSU in a bind. If the BSC wanted SDSU for either all or non-football membership but not USD (because of what USD did to them) could they get the SDBoR on board to join the Big Sky or would the board say no to splitting them up.

The BSC isn't as petty as the Slummit so I think Fullerton would do what he feels is best for the conference, whether that is inviting USD or not. The BSC isn't led by a teenage girl with self-confidence issues (Douple).

[Lehigh Football Nation]

To me this screams the formation of a new conference, or at least the formation of a new football conference. Just sayin'.

[MarkyMark]

I would really like to see NDSU remain in the Valley for football. It is the best FCS conference for football right now and NDSU has so much in common with the other members.

The Summit does need to stabilize or we will end up having to make a big change.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Pretty hacky piece of writing, but nothing we don't already expect from the Herald. This whole situation to me reeks of missed opportunities. BSC could have had NDSU and SDSU but passed for UNC and settled for the Great Rest. UND could have just made the jump instead of being whiny bitches. UND also could have stopped dragging their feet and just made the name change instead of creating the whole mess.

[FargoBison]

The Summit has some major issues, the writer has a point. Now is the time more than ever to make a run at NDSU if you are the Big Sky. I love the MVFC but our other sports need to be in a stable conference.

[Silenoz]

Pretty hacky piece of writing, but nothing we don't already expect from the Herald. This whole situation to me reeks of missed opportunities. BSC could have had NDSU and SDSU but passed for UNC and settled for the Great Rest. UND could have just made the jump instead of being whiny bitches. UND also could have stopped dragging their feet and just made the name change instead of creating the whole mess.

Don't blame the Montanas, we tried

[UNDBIZ]

UND could have just made the jump instead of being whiny bitches. UND also could have stopped dragging their feet and just made the name change instead of creating the whole mess.

You're right. UND should've just charged into D1 without any money like ndsu did, that way we could go crying to the legislature about funding every 2 years like you guys do. Al Carlson, Fargo (ndsu) representative, did a lot more to prolong the name change than any UND admins did.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

You're right. UND should've just charged into D1 without any money like ndsu did, that way we could go crying to the legislature about funding every 2 years like you guys do. Al Carlson, Fargo (ndsu) representative, did a lot more to prolong the name change than any UND admins did.

Al Carlson represents himself. Nobody in Bismarck would ever lift a finger to help NDSU.

[FargoBison]

You're right. UND should've just charged into D1 without any money like ndsu did, that way we could go crying to the legislature about funding every 2 years like you guys do. Al Carlson, Fargo (ndsu) representative, did a lot more to prolong the name change than any UND admins did.

Al Carlson did what he did to get votes from the nickname supporters, they enabled him completely.

NDSU moving up to DI had nothing to do with our financial issues, those had everything to do with a president that tried to expand the school too quickly.

[UNDBIZ]

Al Carlson represents himself. Nobody in Bismarck would ever lift a finger to help NDSU.


Lol. Why does Fargo keep voting for him then? Also, 2 state senators are employees of ndsu. If the school is so terrible that they and other Fargo area legislators won't help them then that's pretty bad....

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Lol. Why does Fargo keep voting for him then? Also, 2 state senators are employees of ndsu. If the school is so terrible that they and other Fargo area legislators won't help them then that's pretty bad....

He's a Republican and his district is mostly rich assholes.

[UNDBIZ]

Al Carlson did what he did to get votes from the nickname supporters, they enabled him completely.

NDSU moving up to DI had nothing to do with our financial issues, those had everything to do with a president that tried to expand the school too quickly.

You don't believe the D1 move and the school expansion were related?

[UNDBIZ]

He's a Republican and his district is mostly rich assholes.

Haha, well I can't argue against that one, although I was under the impression he was a north Fargo rep. Regardless, I'm fully aware that anyone with an R behind their name is the odds-on favorite to be elected in ND.

[FargoBison]

You don't believe the D1 move and the school expansion were related?

The athletic move was largely funded by alumni and other donors.

Making a university suddenly become large enough to accommodate 15,000 students is something completely different. It requires a lot of money to pay staff and expand or add academic facilities....some of NDSU's academic facilities were already in a state of disrepair. NDSU is still trying to catch up with the expansion that happened, there is a reason why NDSU has grown at a substantially slower rate ever since Chapman left.

[UNDBIZ]

The athletic move was largely funded by alumni and other donors.

Making a university suddenly become large enough to accommodate 15,000 students is something completely different. It requires a lot of money to pay staff and expand or add academic facilities....some of NDSU's academic facilities were already in a state of disrepair. NDSU is still trying to catch up with the expansion that happened, there is a reason why NDSU has grown at a substantially slower rate ever since Chapman left.

ndsu also needed more students (and the fees they pay) in order to support the annual budget of a D1 athletic department.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

ndsu also needed more students (and the fees they pay) in order to support the annual budget of a D1 athletic department.

Maybe some sports but they already had way more money for football scholarships than they were allowed to use. That Team Makers is a VERY well run organization.

[MplsBison]

There are a couple unfortunate facts that NDSU is going to have to deal with here, sooner rather than later:

1) Oakland is leaving for the Horizon.

The question is really, who else is going with them? If only Oakland leaves the Summit, it'll be ok for now. If one or especially if both IU-PU schools leave the Summit...it's sunk. They'd have to go after WAC schools like Chicago St and UMKC. Good luck...

2) NDSU is *NEVER* going to get into the MVC.

It's never, ever going to happen -- unless conference realignment of such epic proportions occurs and at that point you'd have to question whether the MVC would still be worth going into (likely not). NDSU is too public, too far away and even if they had the new BSA finished the bball program is not at that level. It's a dead corpse of a dream that needs to be disposed of in our minds.


That said, the Horizon is not impossible but the geography of that conference closes it off in my mind. They're too tight around the great lakes.



So...if the Summit does collapse, I think NDSU has to entertain an offer from the Big Sky for full membership. This would be my proposal back to the Big Sky if I was NDSU's president: bring in NDSU, SDSU, USD and U of Denver as full-members. That brings the membership to 16. Cut into two divisions of 8 each:

East:
NDSU - UND
SDSU - USD
Montana - MSU
No Colo - Denver

West:
Idaho - ISU
So Utah - Weber St
East Wash - PSU
Sac St - No Ariz


Omaha will have to partner up with UMKC in the WAC and Western Illinois will have to partner up with EIU in the OVC. Sucks for those two schools, but that's the only possibilities I see for them.



Another thing that would be fun to consider, but could probably never happen would be to split off an "FBS" football conference from the Big Sky that would include Idaho.

FBS league:
Idaho, Montana, MSU, NDSU, UND, SDSU, USD, UC Davis, Sac St

FCS league:
E Wash, Port St, Cal Poly, No Ariz, So Utah, Weber St, Idaho St, No Colo

[Bisonator]

The BSC would suck for travel. Might be OK for the olympic sports, but for football the MVFC is way better. I'd much prefer an invite to the MVC for our other sports.

Anyone ever notice how all of these types of threads (demise of the Summit, trying to get UND and NDSU in same conference) seem to be started by fans of a certain university to the north? xcoffeex

[MplsBison]

The BSC would suck for travel. Might be OK for the olympic sports, but for football the MVFC is way better. I'd much prefer an invite to the MVC for our other sports.

Anyone ever notice how all of these types of threads (demise of the Summit, trying to get UND and NDSU in same conference) seem to be started by fans of a certain university to the north? xcoffeex

Every NDSU fan would prefer an invite to the MVC (myself included). Just like we'd love to get an invite from the B1G.

Both are roughly the same possibility. Face facts my man...

[Lehigh Football Nation]

FBS league:
Idaho, Montana, MSU, NDSU, UND, SDSU, USD, UC Davis, Sac St

FCS league:
E Wash, Port St, Cal Poly, No Ariz, So Utah, Weber St, Idaho St, No Colo

I find it pretty humorous that Sac State is in the FBS side of the house...

...while the perennial playoff team and recent national champion is sitting in the same league as Northern Colorado.

That's not the only weakness with this setup.

[Bisonator]

There are a couple unfortunate facts that NDSU is going to have to deal with here, sooner rather than later:

1) Oakland is leaving for the Horizon.

The question is really, who else is going with them? If only Oakland leaves the Summit, it'll be ok for now. If one or especially if both IU-PU schools leave the Summit...it's sunk. They'd have to go after WAC schools like Chicago St and UMKC. Good luck...

2) NDSU is *NEVER* going to get into the MVC.

It's never, ever going to happen -- unless conference realignment of such epic proportions occurs and at that point you'd have to question whether the MVC would still be worth going into (likely not). NDSU is too public, too far away and even if they had the new BSA finished the bball program is not at that level. It's a dead corpse of a dream that needs to be disposed of in our minds.


That said, the Horizon is not impossible but the geography of that conference closes it off in my mind. They're too tight around the great lakes.

Never say never and the demise of any conference always seems to be around the corner yet seldom happens.



So...if the Summit does collapse, I think NDSU has to entertain an offer from the Big Sky for full membership. This would be my proposal back to the Big Sky if I was NDSU's president: bring in NDSU, SDSU, USD and U of Denver as full-members. That brings the membership to 16. Cut into two divisions of 8 each:

East:
NDSU - UND
SDSU - USD
Montana - MSU
No Colo - Denver

West:
Idaho - ISU
So Utah - Weber St
East Wash - PSU
Sac St - No Ariz

This wouldn't be a terrible idea actually, it at least reduces some of the travel concerns.

Omaha will have to partner up with UMKC in the WAC and Western Illinois will have to partner up with EIU in the OVC. Sucks for those two schools, but that's the only possibilities I see for them.



Another thing that would be fun to consider, but could probably never happen would be to split off an "FBS" football conference from the Big Sky that would include Idaho.

FBS league:
Idaho, Montana, MSU, NDSU, UND, SDSU, USD, UC Davis, Sac St

FCS league:
E Wash, Port St, Cal Poly, No Ariz, So Utah, Weber St, Idaho St, No Colo

This will not happen..

[NoDak 4 Ever]

I find it pretty humorous that Sac State is in the FBS side of the house...

...while the perennial playoff team and recent national champion is sitting in the same league as Northern Colorado.

That's not the only weakness with this setup.

Well every time MPLS posts it has to include a noun, a verb, and FBS

[IBleedYellow]

Hey guys, as NDSU do we want to stay in the #1 conference in the country or jump to the #3 conference?

At the same time, now would be the time to work from membership into the Big Sky, having the National Titles in our pocket.


I do not want to leave the MVFC, best decision that NDSU leadership has made was to get into the Gateway. The only teams that I would want to play with in the Big Sky are Cal Poly, UC Davis, EWU, Northern Arizona and Montana. The rest aren't worth our time. Sorry Bobcats, your administration proved that they don't want to be the best by backing out of our game this year, go away. If you want to be a winner, you play winners, which our current conference strives for!

I don't have a great "end all, fix all" solution, but I don't believe that NDSU leaving the best conference in our biggest sport is currently in the best choice of our institution.

It's so funny how much those reporters up North of us strive SO MUCH to get back into a conference with us. We don't want you, fall off the planet and shrivel away.

[UNDBIZ]

Hey guys, as NDSU do we want to stay in the #1 conference in the country or jump to the #3 conference?

At the same time, now would be the time to work from membership into the Big Sky, having the National Titles in our pocket.


I do not want to leave the MVFC, best decision that NDSU leadership has made was to get into the Gateway. The only teams that I would want to play with in the Big Sky are Cal Poly, UC Davis, EWU, Northern Arizona and Montana. The rest aren't worth our time. Sorry Bobcats, your administration proved that they don't want to be the best by backing out of our game this year, go away. If you want to be a winner, you play winners, which our current conference strives for!

xeyebrowx

[IBleedYellow]

xeyebrowx


Everyone, THIS right here is what UND fans have as a rebuttal. Let it be known.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Everyone, THIS right here is what UND fans have as a rebuttal. Let it be known.

Well he's right about UC Davis. You might have meant Cal Poly. NAU is a solid team though. They did a pretty good job last year.

this whole thing is propped up by UND folks. Forget it chumps, you AND the BSC had your chances.

[IBleedYellow]

Well he's right about UC Davis. You might have meant Cal Poly. NAU is a solid team though. They did a pretty good job last year.

this whole thing is propped up by UND folks. Forget it chumps, you AND the BSC had your chances.

Nah, I am still serious about UC Davis. We had some fun games with them in the Great West. They have a 714 Million+ endowment, if they want to play football and pay for it, they can. Plus, been to California lately? It's a nice place, to visit.

[UNDBIZ]

this whole thing is propped up by UND folks. Forget it chumps, you AND the BSC had your chances.

I hope the BSC doesn't invite ndsu, but I'm not the commissioner. For now, I'm just going to take advantage of the entertainment that is Summit Commissioner Douple attempting to figure out why nobody likes him. xpeacex

[MplsBison]

Nah, I am still serious about UC Davis. We had some fun games with them in the Great West. They have a 714 Million+ endowment, if they want to play football and pay for it, they can. Plus, been to California lately? It's a nice place, to visit.

I would be extremely proud to be in a conference with UC Davis, regardless how farflung the arrangement (literally).

They are a key research institution in the premier public research university system in the world. The world.

[darell1976]

Well he's right about UC Davis. You might have meant Cal Poly. NAU is a solid team though. They did a pretty good job last year.

this whole thing is propped up by UND folks. Forget it chumps, you AND the BSC had your chances.

So if you were GT and had a choice leave the SL for the Big Sky or not be in an AQ conference for your Olympic sports you would stay in the SL and watch UND have a shot at the dance while NDSU's postseason would be the CIT and only the CIT?

[NoDak 4 Ever]

So if you were GT and had a choice leave the SL for the Big Sky or not be in an AQ conference for your Olympic sports you would stay in the SL and watch UND have a shot at the dance while NDSU's postseason would be the CIT and only the CIT?

The Big Sky screwed themselves by taking all of the Great Rest. They have horrible geography. They are better off sticking with the SD's, Omaha, and Denver whatever happens to them.

[AmsterBison]

The Grand Forks Herald: Over a Century of Offering Unsolicited Advice On Topics About Which They Know Nothing. My advice to the Herald: Stick to hockey.

I don't see what has changed since the Big Sky turned down NDSU and SDSU in 2004. The Summit will just have to figure out a way to survive.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

The Grand Forks Herald: Over a Century of Offering Unsolicited Advice On Topics About Which They Know Nothing. My advice to the Herald: Stick to hockey.

I don't see what has changed since the Big Sky turned down NDSU and SDSU in 2004. The Summit will just have to figure out a way to survive.

If you ask me (and nobody has), baseball is just a waste in Fargo. You rarely actually play at home.

[UNDBIZ]

The Summit will just have to figure out a way to survive.

xpopcornx

[UNDBIZ]

The Big Sky screwed themselves by taking all of the Great Rest. They have horrible geography. They are better off sticking with the SD's, Omaha, and Denver whatever happens to them.

I wouldn't expect Denver to stick around with the summit for too long..... but who knows, their AD isn't very smart.

[UNDColorado]

As I write this there is a smile on my face because I am having a hard time comprehending some of these ingenious comments. For a minute there I thought it was a good idea to look at NDSU joining the Big Sky, but that idea is now gone. I love our conference and the matchups it creates. I like that we have a commissioner that is not inept and immature. I also like that he has the foresight to look at the future of the sport. I like that we can play the other Dakota schools in non-conference games. Also, it was a well written article that asked some relevant questions.

Most NDSU fans are realistic and understand that the Summit is on Shaky ground and a future conference move may be necessary, and that sometimes you may need to swallow some pride for the greater good of your institution; and I respect that. But holy crap are some of you a special kind of stupid! Some of you carry so much hatred for UND that you will overlook reality to save face. I'm not even mad, that's amazing!

[darell1976]

If you ask me (and nobody has), baseball is just a waste in Fargo. You rarely actually play at home.

I can't argue with this one. When you have to play games at the Metrodome and start the season on a 20 game road trip due to snow and flooding you almost need to get a dome fit for baseball or dump the sport. Lacrosse would be a great alternative to baseball for us northern teams.

[AmsterBison]

I wouldn't expect Denver to stick around with the summit for too long..... but who knows, their AD isn't very smart.

Not every athletic department can be run as competently as UND's.

UNDColorado, do you really think that the Big Sky wants to add NDSU? My point was that I don't think that they do so that makes the issue moot.

[darell1976]

As I write this there is a smile on my face because I am having a hard time comprehending some of these ingenious comments. For a minute there I thought it was a good idea to look at NDSU joining the Big Sky, but that idea is now gone. I love our conference and the matchups it creates. I like that we have a commissioner that is not inept and immature. I also like that he has the foresight to look at the future of the sport. I like that we can play the other Dakota schools in non-conference games. Also, it was a well written article that asked some relevant questions.

Most NDSU fans are realistic and understand that the Summit is on Shaky ground and a future conference move may be necessary, and that sometimes you may need to swallow some pride for the greater good of your institution; and I respect that. But holy crap are some of you a special kind of stupid! Some of you carry so much hatred for UND that you will overlook reality to save face. I'm not even mad, that's amazing!

They hate us and they hate Montana State, makes for some good rivalry games..plus no buyouts.

[gotts]

Not every athletic department can be run as competently as UND's.

http://images.wikia.com/walkingdead/images/4/42/I-See-What-You-Did-There..png

[darell1976]

Not every athletic department can be run as competently as UND's.

It has been run really well (since RT left). Faison has done a lot of good things at UND since taking over.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Not every athletic department can be run as competently as UND's.

I say poach from the OVC, forget Denver and run it as a truly Mid Continent (see what I did there?) conference.

https://www.google.com/maps/ms?msid=202532153625569875633.0004dc12568a7d1c531b 0&msa=0&ll=37.474858,-81.123047&spn=28.774335,67.631836

[UNDBIZ]

Not every athletic department can be run as competently as UND's.

Yeah, I suppose you're right. xthumbsupx

[Laker]

Lacrosse would be a great alternative to baseball for us northern teams. I would agree with you on that except that you would have to import all of your players from other states. I'm not sure how many lacrosse teams that there are in the Midwest- I know that the number is growing, probably in the Twin Cities.

The Big Ten will have five lacrosse schools when Maryland and Rutgers join up with Michiagn, Ohio State and Penn State.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

I would agree with you on that except that you would have to import all of your players from other states. I'm not sure how many lacrosse teams that there are in the Midwest- I know that the number is growing, probably in the Twin Cities.

The Big Ten will have five lacrosse schools when Maryland and Rutgers join up with Michiagn, Ohio State and Penn State.

Moving to Ohio, it's the first time I've even seen high school lacrosse. I know they have a club team at NDSU (or at least did) so I'm not sure where it is.

[MarkyMark]

The Big Sky screwed themselves by taking all of the Great Rest. They have horrible geography. They are better off sticking with the SD's, Omaha, and Denver whatever happens to them.


I wonder how much more it costs for UND to take all of their non-revenue sports and travel by plane to nearly every state in the West for games? 250K? 500K? 750K?- I really have no idea but it probably amounts to a lot of money for a smaller D1 school. There is a tradeoff to being a Big Sky member that gives you stability but higher expenses and no real rivalries.

UND coaches salaries are at the bottom of the Big Sky even though UND has a decent athletic budget (larger than NDSU I believe). You can call 500K chump change but think about how much more you could spend on getting and retaining the best possible coaches if you don't spend that money on travelling.

[darell1976]

I would agree with you on that except that you would have to import all of your players from other states. I'm not sure how many lacrosse teams that there are in the Midwest- I know that the number is growing, probably in the Twin Cities.

The Big Ten will have five lacrosse schools when Maryland and Rutgers join up with Michiagn, Ohio State and Penn State.

I don't know any high schools that offer it, but if there is a way to get lacrosse off the ground maybe they could start offering it in the bigger HS in ND, and MN just like hockey.

[darell1976]

Moving to Ohio, it's the first time I've even seen high school lacrosse. I know they have a club team at NDSU (or at least did) so I'm not sure where it is.

http://www.hometeamsonline.com/teams/?u=NDSULACROSSE&s=lacrosse&t=c

Pretty much their whole roster is from the Twin Cities. If the bigger high schools like Fargo (FN, FS, FD, WF), Grand Forks (GFC, GFRR), among others could pick up the sport it could take off up here maybe bigger than baseball due to the weather.

[UNDBIZ]

I wonder how much more it costs for UND to take all of their non-revenue sports and travel by plane to nearly every state in the West for games? 250K? 500K? 750K?- I really have no idea but it probably amounts to a lot of money for a smaller D1 school. There is a tradeoff to being a Big Sky member that gives you stability but higher expenses and no real rivalries.

UND coaches salaries are at the bottom of the Big Sky even though UND has a decent athletic budget (larger than NDSU I believe). You can call 500K chump change but think about how much more you could spend on getting and retaining the best possible coaches if you don't spend that money on travelling.

Most of the coaches are holdovers from D2. Once they earn a D1 salary they will be paid a D1 salary. Now that we have a stable conference, many of these coaches will be placed on a shorter leash (no excuses anymore). Turnover and certain coaches proving their worth will fix the salary disparity over the next 3-5 years.

[darell1976]

Most of the coaches are holdovers from D2. Once they earn a D1 salary they will be paid a D1 salary. Now that we have a stable conference, many of these coaches will be placed on a shorter leash (no excuses anymore). Turnover and certain coaches proving their worth will fix the salary disparity over the next 3-5 years.

Coaches on the hot seat (IMO) are Mussman (FB), and Travis Brewster (WBB), although it was Brewster's first year so he may be excused for his poor year last season. Other coaches may be seating extentions like Ashley Hardee (VB) and Brian Jones (MBB) as Hardee has UND as a quick contender, and Jones taking UND to postseason basketball yet again last season and was 2 wins from the dance.

[MplsBison]

The Grand Forks Herald: Over a Century of Offering Unsolicited Advice On Topics About Which They Know Nothing. My advice to the Herald: Stick to hockey.

I don't see what has changed since the Big Sky turned down NDSU and SDSU in 2004. The Summit will just have to figure out a way to survive.

If there's one thing to be said about the bisonville elite, it's that if you've wronged NDSU in the past 30 years then you are their nemesis for life.

[UNDColorado]

Not every athletic department can be run as competently as UND's.

UNDColorado, do you really think that the Big Sky wants to add NDSU? My point was that I don't think that they do so that makes the issue moot.

I have no idea if they would want to add NDSU. I can think of some very logical reasons why they would want NDSU, but who really knows. What we do know is that Fullerton is aware of the conference re-alignment situation and he is definitely not afraid to go out on a limb when making these types of decisions.

[darell1976]

I have no idea if they would want to add NDSU. I can think of some very logical reasons why they would want NDSU, but who really knows. What we do know is that Fullerton is aware of the conference re-alignment situation and he is definitely not afraid to go out on a limb when making these types of decisions.

I wonder if Fullerton would go after SDSU, or even Denver (although DU has no football). SDSU could be a travel partner with UND (if NDSU says no), and of course DU fits the footprint with no problems there and could join the WAC in baseball as they have an AQ.

[Professor Chaos]

I think the Big Sky would love to have NDSU for obvious reasons now that they have UND. Whether NDSU would love to be the Big Sky depends entirely on the future of the non-football sports in either the Summit League or the other conference options that would be available should the Summit League fold.

[MplsBison]

I say poach from the OVC, forget Denver and run it as a truly Mid Continent (see what I did there?) conference.

https://www.google.com/maps/ms?msid=202532153625569875633.0004dc12568a7d1c531b 0&msa=0&ll=37.474858,-81.123047&spn=28.774335,67.631836

I'm with you on Eastern Illinois, wish they'd join now regardless but they can't make the move without a spot in the MVFC. And that isn't coming any time soon.

Same would go for SEMO, except they would have zero desire to leave the OVC for the Summit/MVFC (nor would Missouri St. allow them in the MVFC).

SIU-E would work as a Summit add. But I have to assume that the Summit went after them and they chose the OVC instead. What has changed since that time other than the Summit being in greater need?

[UNDColorado]

I wonder if Fullerton would go after SDSU, or even Denver (although DU has no football). SDSU could be a travel partner with UND (if NDSU says no), and of course DU fits the footprint with no problems there and could join the WAC in baseball as they have an AQ.

SDSU does have tennis I guess. At this point it is anyones guess about the future of the Dakota schools. It could make for some interesting divisional play with all Dakota schools added.

In regard to Denver from what I understand DU wants nothing to do with Northern Colorado. There is some kind of hatred or superiority thing going on from what some DU insiders have told me.

I would love to see DU in the Big Sky.

[MplsBison]

I wonder if Fullerton would go after SDSU, or even Denver (although DU has no football). SDSU could be a travel partner with UND (if NDSU says no), and of course DU fits the footprint with no problems there and could join the WAC in baseball as they have an AQ.

As far as I know the Big Sky has always been "beneath" Denver. But now that they've accepted a bid to the Summit, that may no longer be the case.

[UNDBIZ]

I wonder if Fullerton would go after SDSU, or even Denver (although DU has no football). SDSU could be a travel partner with UND (if NDSU says no), and of course DU fits the footprint with no problems there and could join the WAC in baseball as they have an AQ.

DU doesn't have baseball, that's why the summit is in so much trouble....

[AmsterBison]

I think the Big Sky would love to have NDSU for obvious reasons now that they have UND. Whether NDSU would love to be the Big Sky depends entirely on the future of the non-football sports in either the Summit League or the other conference options that would be available should the Summit League fold.

I guess the question is what does the Big Sky want more? Another school 1000+ miles from the center of their conference or one less school 1000+ miles from the center of their conference.

[MplsBison]

I think the Big Sky would love to have NDSU for obvious reasons now that they have UND. Whether NDSU would love to be the Big Sky depends entirely on the future of the non-football sports in either the Summit League or the other conference options that would be available should the Summit League fold.

Which are: none.

NDSU is literally in the perfectly worst place in the continental United States for joining a conference.

The men's bball team doesn't do anything to warrant the increase in travel costs for these low-major leagues and the women's bball team is terrible right now. Volleyball and softball are good, but that does not get you in a conference. Same with the rest of it.

UND being in the Big Sky may literally save NDSU's bacon in the next 5 years if the worst case scenario happens to the Summit. Without them, I wonder if the Big Sky would even consider the Dakotas....they wouldn't last time!

[darell1976]

http://www.freep.com/article/20130506/SPORTS08/305060097/oakland-horizon-league


Oakland University’s athletic department is inviting media members to Tuesday afternoon’s meeting of the Board of Trustees, presumably to announce that the school is leaving the Summit League and joining the Horizon League.

The SL will now lose their AQ in baseball (with only 4 members NDSU, SDSU, WIU, IPFW), and now basketball is on the clock as far as its AQ status goes.

[darell1976]

DU doesn't have baseball, that's why the summit is in so much trouble....

My bad I thought they did.

[MplsBison]

http://www.freep.com/article/20130506/SPORTS08/305060097/oakland-horizon-league



The SL will now lose their AQ in baseball (with only 4 members NDSU, SDSU, WIU, IPFW), and now basketball is on the clock as far as its AQ status goes.

Even without Omaha, the Summit will have 7 next season for men's basketball by including Denver.

My worry, however, is that this press conference is going to trigger a run on the bank, as it were. Oakland leaving represents a large deposit holder pulling his cash out. If you're also a deposit holder and you have somewhere else to go..you're going to be checking the situation.

Potentially Denver could go back to the WAC or check out the Big Sky and the Indiana Purdue schools in my opinion are possible targets for the Horizon.


But you're right, baseball is in hot water unless a school (like South Dakota) adds the sport. And I just don't see that happening in these days of title IX and budget cuts.

[darell1976]

Even without Omaha, the Summit will have 7 next season for men's basketball by including Denver.

My worry, however, is that this press conference is going to trigger a run on the bank, as it were. Oakland leaving represents a large deposit holder pulling his cash out. If you're also a deposit holder and you have somewhere else to go..you're going to be checking the situation.

Potentially Denver could go back to the WAC or check out the Big Sky and the Indiana Purdue schools in my opinion are possible targets for the Horizon.


But you're right, baseball is in hot water unless a school (like South Dakota) adds the sport. And I just don't see that happening in these days of title IX and budget cuts.

However.... (this from Siouxvolley on SS) http://forum.siouxsports.com/topic/18321-what-conference-will-the-other-dakotas-be-in-2015/page__st__40


Guess I was bored tonight so looked up issues around the Grace Period for Summit League baseball. The NCAA regulations clearly state that the Summit League will lose its auto bid for baseball if it falls below five members. When Oakland leaves, that means that the Summit League has to have another baseball member in place before July 1st, 2013. If the Summit League doesn't have a fifth baseball team in place by July 1st, the Summit League will also be in violation of not meeting the requirements of a Multisport conference (not having two men's team championships other than basketball that compete for NCAA autobids), which means the conference could lose their right to a men's basketball bid.


Quote


31.3.4.4 Additional Requirements, Sports Other Than Men’s Basketball.

31.3.4.4.1 Multi-Sport Conference. To be considered eligible for automatic qualification in a particular
sport, a multi-sport conference (see Bylaw 20.02.5) must be a core conference (see Bylaw 31.02.3) and
must include six institutions that sponsor the sport and conduct conference competition together. (Revised:
4/27/00, 10/00, 4/29/04 effective 8/1/04, 8/5/04, 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11)

31.3.4.4.2 Single-Sport Conference. To be considered for automatic qualification in a particular sport,
a single-sport member conference for a sport sponsored by less than 50 percent of the Division I membership must include six institutions that have conducted conference competition together the preceding two years in the sport in question at the Division I level. (Adopted: 8/5/04, Revised: 4/27/06 effective 8/1/06)

31.3.4.4.3 Grace Period. A conference shall remain eligible for automatic qualification for two years
following the date of the withdrawal of the institution(s) that causes the conference’s membership to fall below six institutions that sponsor the sport and conduct conference competition together provided the conference maintains at least five Division I members. (Adopted: 8/5/04, Revised: 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11)

So if baseball drops to four, Summit baseball no longer has an autobid, and the Summit League now is put on the clock for its men's basketball autobid.

Here's the definition of a multi-sport conference, which the Summit League would no longer meet because of baseball.


Quote


20.02.5 Multisport Conference. A Division I multisport conference shall satisfy the requirements of this
section. (Adopted: 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11)

20.02.5.1 Minimum Number of Members. A multisport conference shall be composed of at least seven
active Division I members. The member conference shall include at least seven active Division I members that
sponsor both men’s and women’s basketball. (Adopted: 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11)

20.02.5.2 Sports Sponsorship. A multisport conference shall satisfy the following requirements: (Adopted:
1/15/11 effective 8/1/11)
(a) The conference shall sponsor a minimum of 12 Division I sports;
(b) The conference shall sponsor a minimum of six men’s sports, one of which shall be men’s basketball. In
addition to men’s basketball, the conference shall sponsor football or two other men’s team sports. A
minimum of seven members shall sponsor men’s basketball. A minimum of six members shall sponsor
five other sports, including football or two additional men’s team sports; and
c) The conference shall sponsor a minimum of six women’s sports, one of which shall be women’s basketball.
In addition to women’s basketball, the conference shall sponsor two other women’s team sports. A
minimum of seven members shall sponsor women’s basketball. A minimum of six members shall sponsor
five other sports, including two additional women’s team sports (or a minimum of five members for an
emerging sport for women).

At best, the Summit League would have two years of grace to correct the lack of baseball (or it could offer another men's sport like hockey) or it could take football in house and add two more teams, otherwise the Summit League would be defunct in the eyes of the NCAA.



Quote


20.02.5.5 Grace Period. A conference shall continue to be considered a multisport conference for two years
following the date of withdrawal of the institution(s) that causes the conference’s noncompliance with the minimum multisport conference requirements. (Adopted: 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11)

[MplsBison]

He has misread the requirements.

It just says that the conference has to sponsor two men's sports other than football to be considered a multisport conference, not that their champion has to be receiving an NCAA autobid in those sports.

Furthermore, the entire section he quoted is in regards to sports other than men's basketball. It has no bearing whatsoever on men's basketball.

The Summit will continue sponsoring baseball and men's soccer as men's team sports other than football, even if Oakland leaves. That meets the requirement of a multisports conference, regardless - although I have no idea to what particular benefit being a multisport conference grants.

[IBleedYellow]

I think the Big Sky would love to have NDSU for obvious reasons now that they have UND. Whether NDSU would love to be the Big Sky depends entirely on the future of the non-football sports in either the Summit League or the other conference options that would be available should the Summit League fold.



This right here is gold.

[Professor Chaos]

Which are: none.

NDSU is literally in the perfectly worst place in the continental United States for joining a conference.

The men's bball team doesn't do anything to warrant the increase in travel costs for these low-major leagues and the women's bball team is terrible right now. Volleyball and softball are good, but that does not get you in a conference. Same with the rest of it.

UND being in the Big Sky may literally save NDSU's bacon in the next 5 years if the worst case scenario happens to the Summit. Without them, I wonder if the Big Sky would even consider the Dakotas....they wouldn't last time!
There will be other conference options for NDSU and SDSU if the Summit League folds but the Big Sky could very well be the best. And you had better believe the Big Sky would consider the Dakotas, all of them. Do you really think UND was that appealing for the Big Sky to snatch them up with no travel partner? That move was made for the stability of the conference, which was something that wasn't at the top of school presidents minds in 2004 when they first considered NDSU and SDSU.

[MplsBison]

Your optimism is honorable, but baseless at this moment in my estimation.

My simple, moot point about UND being in the Big Sky helping NDSU's cause is just that with UND already in the conferene NDSU is only 70 miles away from the conference. Without UND in the conference, the Dakotas are more than a thousand miles away from most Big Sky schools.

And that conference has 11 all-sports members even without UND, almost all of which will never, ever have even the slightest prospect of joining the MWC or PAC conferences - thus essentially locking them into the Big Sky.

[Twentysix]

Moving to Ohio, it's the first time I've even seen high school lacrosse. I know they have a club team at NDSU (or at least did) so I'm not sure where it is.

NDSU has a competitive club team, they were 15-0 a few weeks ago.

[Twentysix]

Your optimism is honorable, but baseless at this moment in my estimation.

My simple, moot point about UND being in the Big Sky helping NDSU's cause is just that with UND already in the conferene NDSU is only 70 miles away from the conference. Without UND in the conference, the Dakotas are more than a thousand miles away from most Big Sky schools.

And that conference has 11 all-sports members even without UND, almost all of which will never, ever have even the slightest prospect of joining the MWC or PAC conferences - thus essentially locking them into the Big Sky.

I've got to think that should the University of Montana desire to be in the MWC, they could be.

[Laker]

Has this been posted anywhere yet? Oakland is having a meeting tomorrow afternoon- Detroit paper speculates a move to the Horizon.

http://www.freep.com/article/20130506/SPORTS08/305060097/oakland-horizon-league

[darell1976]

Has this been posted anywhere yet? Oakland is having a meeting tomorrow afternoon- Detroit paper speculates a move to the Horizon.

http://www.freep.com/article/20130506/SPORTS08/305060097/oakland-horizon-league

Towards the beginning of this thread.

[MplsBison]

I've got to think that should the University of Montana desire to be in the MWC, they could be.

Maybe. That's why I was careful to say almost all.

But only in the sense that they're somewhat like Wyoming. However, one should not assume that Wyoming would be able to join the MWC in these days just because they're in the conference now.

[IBleedYellow]

Which are: none.

NDSU is literally in the perfectly worst place in the continental United States for joining a conference.

The men's bball team doesn't do anything to warrant the increase in travel costs for these low-major leagues and the women's bball team is terrible right now. Volleyball and softball are good, but that does not get you in a conference. Same with the rest of it.

Here is what I will state about our sports current:

Football - On top of the world of FCS football.
Mens Basketball - Not doing bad at all
Women's Basketball - Horrible, we need a new coach
Women's Volleyball - We currently have 4 players on the team, all of them being freshman. We lost the ENTIRE team when the girls figured out that Kari Thompson can't coach.
Women's Softball - Damn good
Men's Baseball - Does well, but then again, we're in the Summit.
Women's T&F - We haven't even lost ONE Summit league Indoor or Outdoor Tourney since we joined.
Men's T&F - I think we've lost 2 Summit Indoor or Outdoor Tourney's.
Golf - Women's doing well, Men's isn't so bad.

In the grand scheme of things, NDSU supports all of their sports very well for our location. The ****ty part is our women's olympic sports are crashing and burning right now due to our incompetent women's AD. For a conference to want to pick us up right now on the olympic sports, we're hurting. Yes, we have tradition, but currently we aren't doing so great other than football and softball.

GT needs to tell our women's AD buhbye and I'd be happier.

[FargoBison]

Here is what I will state about our sports current:

Football - On top of the world of FCS football.
Mens Basketball - Not doing bad at all
Women's Basketball - Horrible, we need a new coach
Women's Volleyball - We currently have 4 players on the team, all of them being freshman. We lost the ENTIRE team when the girls figured out that Kari Thompson can't coach.
Women's Softball - Damn good
Men's Baseball - Does well, but then again, we're in the Summit.
Women's T&F - We haven't even lost ONE Summit league Indoor or Outdoor Tourney since we joined.
Men's T&F - I think we've lost 2 Summit Indoor or Outdoor Tourney's.
Golf - Women's doing well, Men's isn't so bad.

In the grand scheme of things, NDSU supports all of their sports very well for our location. The ****ty part is our women's olympic sports are crashing and burning right now due to our incompetent women's AD. For a conference to want to pick us up right now on the olympic sports, we're hurting. Yes, we have tradition, but currently we aren't doing so great other than football and softball.

GT needs to tell our women's AD buhbye and I'd be happier.

Women's Cross Country also won the Summit title. Wrestling won a conference title as well. The soccer team has had some good recruits, not a great year last year though but they were decent.

[frozennorth]

I can't argue with this one. When you have to play games at the Metrodome and start the season on a 20 game road trip due to snow and flooding you almost need to get a dome fit for baseball or dump the sport. Lacrosse would be a great alternative to baseball for us northern teams.

soccer. People in the region actually play that sport, and back in the day you could have run a solid D1 program just off fargo south.

[frozennorth]

since we are borrowing from other threads and different sites:

bisonville (http://www.bisonville.com/forum/showthread.php?30287-GF-Herald-Big-Sky-Should-Add-NDSU&p=734769#post734769)

Any discussion of conferences should start with the sober realization that the Dakota schools are catalysts for instability.

NDSU & SDSU especially, are too good at the mid major level and too isolated not to be a source of friction in *any* currently constituted conference. The Indiana schools & Oakland do not particularly care for the costs of travel to the Dakotas when combined with the positions that those schools now occupy at the top of the food chain.

You're absolutely right that the Big Sky schools would similarly object to the lengthy commute to schools that would also be at the top of the Big Sky.

The best case for stability, IMO, is a conference centered on the Dakotas, not one where they are at the periphery. I also believe that the MVC's actions should (but won't) put to rest the idea that the MVC is an 'ideal' destination for the Dakota schools. The MVC not only took a step backward by replacing Creighton with Loyola, they took a greater step backward than they needed to take, as there were other, better options available to them. Further, they made this decision apparently in the pursuit of media revenue which the Dakota schools cannot provide (and which Loyola-Chicago almost certainly can't provide either).

I think the best option to achieve a conference centered on the Dakota schools to be the Summit.

When one talks about the advantages of a geographically contiguous group of schools in the Dakotas, Montana and Idaho schools, one should look at the poor quality of Idaho's athletic programs, the significant distances (the Idaho schools are farther from the S.D. schools than Centenary), and the poor administration of Montana's athletic programs (Bison fans are clamoring to be in the same conference as Montana State?), and the specious proximity of shared borders. Also, such a conference would again feature the Dakotas on the margin, with Idaho schools routinely trudging out to the Dakotas, getting their butts handed to them, and then trudging back--with a net increase in travel costs and a net reduction in odds of winning conference titles.

Further, there would be no shortage of upheaval involved in achieving that sort of conference.

Denver, UNC, the Dakotas, UNO and WIU would be a stable core, to the extent that one can have such things in a part of the country that is dominated by big public institutions. There wouldn't be shared borders, but WIU is closer to Grand Forks than Bozeman. Really. Over a hundred miles closer. And it's closer to Fargo, and Brookings and Vermillion than the closest 'non-Dakota' school in Hambone's "common borders" conference. And it's a better run institution than any of the Montana & Idaho universities. And it hasn't reneged on deals with schools in the Dakotas.....

[IBleedYellow]

Women's Cross Country also won the Summit title. Wrestling won a conference title as well. The soccer team has had some good recruits, not a great year last year though but they were decent.

Whoops, I fail. Thanks for adding those in there.

In reponse to the quoted post above from fronzennorth:

We're "too good", I don't believe if you can be too good for a conference...

Too LARGE is a possibility, but not too good.

[frozennorth]

Whoops, I fail. Thanks for adding those in there.

In reponse to the quoted post above from fronzennorth:

We're "too good", I don't believe if you can be too good for a conference...

Too LARGE is a possibility, but not too good.

being a geographic and talent outlier is not a good thing for stability. Having multiple geographic and talent outliers is even worse.

[IBleedYellow]

being a geographic and talent outlier is not a good thing for stability. Having multiple geographic and talent outliers is even worse.

I don't understand what you mean by "talent" outlier. As in our recruiting area is further away from everyone else in our conference that they won't get kids from us to play against us?

[frozennorth]

I don't understand what you mean by "talent" outlier. As in our recruiting area is further away from everyone else in our conference that they won't get kids from us to play against us?
like as in the level of talent is an outlier.

[BisonFan02]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6sdVx5gQz6w

[MarkyMark]

Even without Omaha, the Summit will have 7 next season for men's basketball by including Denver.

My worry, however, is that this press conference is going to trigger a run on the bank, as it were. Oakland leaving represents a large deposit holder pulling his cash out. If you're also a deposit holder and you have somewhere else to go..you're going to be checking the situation.

Potentially Denver could go back to the WAC or check out the Big Sky and the Indiana Purdue schools in my opinion are possible targets for the Horizon.


But you're right, baseball is in hot water unless a school (like South Dakota) adds the sport. And I just don't see that happening in these days of title IX and budget cuts.

Really the WAC and the Summit are getting down to few schools and options. Is it time to merge?

[MplsBison]

Here is what I will state about our sports current:

Football - On top of the world of FCS football.
Mens Basketball - Not doing bad at all
Women's Basketball - Horrible, we need a new coach
Women's Volleyball - We currently have 4 players on the team, all of them being freshman. We lost the ENTIRE team when the girls figured out that Kari Thompson can't coach.
Women's Softball - Damn good
Men's Baseball - Does well, but then again, we're in the Summit.
Women's T&F - We haven't even lost ONE Summit league Indoor or Outdoor Tourney since we joined.
Men's T&F - I think we've lost 2 Summit Indoor or Outdoor Tourney's.
Golf - Women's doing well, Men's isn't so bad.

In the grand scheme of things, NDSU supports all of their sports very well for our location. The ****ty part is our women's olympic sports are crashing and burning right now due to our incompetent women's AD. For a conference to want to pick us up right now on the olympic sports, we're hurting. Yes, we have tradition, but currently we aren't doing so great other than football and softball.

GT needs to tell our women's AD buhbye and I'd be happier.

Good summary.

Couple quick clarifications: 1) the "worst place" line was not meant to tie in with the next line about individual sports at all, that was an independent statement about NDSU's incredibly poor geography and how that severely limits division I conference options and 2) the men's bball team is certainly a decent team, I didn't mean to imply otherwise - just that the bball program overall (facilities, coaching salaries, average attendance, RPI) doesn't do enough great things to warrant a conference like the Horizon from wanting to include it at the cost of such increased and burdensome travel.


And while the other sports are certainly nice things on their own, even the package of what NDSU can offer in sports other than men's basketball is still only about $0.02 worth of a $1 equation. It's men's basketball and what can your program in that sport do for my conference? That's the question that NDSU has a difficult time answering when asked by non-football conferences. And especially ones that have a significant private school influence (like the MVC).

[MplsBison]

Really the WAC and the Summit are getting down to few schools and options. Is it time to merge?

That wouldn't be a terrible idea if Oakland and both IUPU schools go to the Horizon.

You'd have something like:

East:
Western Illinois - Chicago St
NDSU - SDSU
USD - Omaha
UM Kansas City

West:
Denver
Texas Pan American - New Mexico St
Utah Valley - Seattle
Grand Canyon - Cal St Bakersfield

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

If the Summit falls apart the BSC would probably be the only option for NDSU.

[BisonFan02]

The likelihood of an "all sports" conference move that doesn't include FBS football isn't high (and the likelihood of that isn't great either)....just my two cents at this point.

[MplsBison]

The likelihood of an "all sports" conference move that doesn't include FBS football isn't high (and the likelihood of that isn't great either)....just my two cents at this point.

So if the Summit disbands and the Big Sky offers an all-sports invitation, you advocate that NDSU should compete as an independent for all sports?

[BisonFan02]

So if...

........so if the Summit disbands, and if the Big Sky offers NDSU all sports (bring the rest of the Summit with?)....that is a more logical path/solution than new additions to the Summit?

[MplsBison]

........so if the Summit disbands, and if the Big Sky offers NDSU all sports (bring the rest of the Summit with?)....that is a more logical path/solution than new additions to the Summit?

If the Summit can add more teams, it won't disband - thus negating the "if the Summit disbands".

Starting with the Summit disbanding means they weren't able to add new additions and decided to end the conference.

[Bisonator]

That wouldn't be a terrible idea if Oakland and both IUPU schools go to the Horizon.

You'd have something like:

East:
Western Illinois - Chicago St
NDSU - SDSU
USD - Omaha
UM Kansas City

West:
Denver
Texas Pan American - New Mexico St
Utah Valley - Seattle
Grand Canyon - Cal St Bakersfield

This is probably the most likely outcome. Neither conference can survive on it's own without raiding from each other anyway. Certainly the geography isn't perfect but it could work for awhile, at least until other schools transition.

[MplsBison]

I'd even say that adding Denver and NM St to that "East" would be good enough for me and the rest of the schools I don't really care for...but doubt that'd work, as I'm sure they'd take the WAC brand over the Summit brand.

Conversely, the WAC by all rights could just say "give us Denver back and we'll take Omaha to go with UMKC and Western Ill to go with Chicago St and the rest of you can piss off." Hopefully that wouldn't happen either.


Be curious to know in that example if Douple would be able to feather himself a soft landing in the WAC office.

[darell1976]

Oakland has now left the Summit effective July 1, 2013.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/college/2013/05/07/horizon-league-summit-league-oakland-golden-grizzlies/2142645/


Oakland University’s Board of Trustees formally accepted an invitation from the Horizon League on Tuesday, putting the Golden Grizzlies in a Midwest-based conference instead of the far-flung Summit League.

The move for the school in Rochester, Mich., is effective July 1.

The Horizon’s current schools are Cleveland State, Detroit Mercy, Wisconsin-Green Bay, Wisconsin-Milwaukee, Illinois-Chicago, Valparaiso, Wright State and Youngstown State. Loyola (Ill.) is leaving for the Missouri Valley Conference, which opened the spot for Oakland. Loyola is filling a vacancy created when Creighton opted to join the reconfigured Big East.

OU athletics director Tracy Huth made a presentation to the board Tuesday, citing the benefits of reduced travel time and distance, recruiting in major Midwest metro areas, more alumni engagement and more competitive rivalries. The Horizon League Network is free on the conference’s website, and there is a contract with ESPN to air some regular-season men’s basketball games.

“We don’t see the downside at this point,” Huth told the board.

...

The Summit will also be down to five teams for baseball, one fewer than required by the NCAA to maintain an automatic bid to the Division I tournament. The league has a two-year grace period to change that before needing to apply for a waiver.

A public school of roughly 17,000 students, Oakland joined the Summit in 1998. It has claimed three conference postseason titles in men's basketball and two in women's hoops.

"The Summit League remains steadfast in its commitment to strengthen as we move forward through the conference realignment that has transpired across the country," Douple said in a statement released by the league. "Our current members believe that the league's present core of committed institutions gives us a solid foundation in which to build upon in the future."

[MplsBison]

Yeah I'm sure the IU PU (Indy and Fort Wayne) presidents would say that if the Horizon sent them invitations.

[frozennorth]

Yeah I'm sure the IU PU (Indy and Fort Wayne) presidents would say that if the Horizon sent them invitations.

thats like asking what would happen if the big12 sent ndsu and sdsu invites

[mmiller_34]

I hope that the Summit doesn't crumble. Although losing Oakland is a huge loss this still opens up the doors for Douple to make this league centered more around the Northern Plains.

I agree that IUPUI & IPFW would probably bolt if given the chance--not sure if the Horizon is that desperate for teams yet. That would require more movement from the MVC, OVC, A10, & even the MAC to (assuming they fill their voids with Horizon teams)

I'm a fan of adding UND & UNC to the Summit (NCC 2.0) It makes way more sense for UND to be with their old counterparts rather than slinging all their teams all across the West. Get this:

North Dakota State
South Dakota State
North Dakota
South Dakota
Omaha
Northern Colorado
Denver
Western Illinois
IUPUI
IPFW

Western & the Indiana Acronyms would obviously be in ****ty positions.

[IBleedYellow]

Everyone keeps talking about how it would be better for UN_ to be with their old NCC mates, but really, right now would you leave the "stable" Big Sky to join the Summit and the MVFC? I wouldn't think you would, especially with our stupid commissioner of the Summit.

[MplsBison]

Everyone keeps talking about how it would be better for UN_ to be with their old NCC mates, but really, right now would you leave the "stable" Big Sky to join the Summit and the MVFC? I wouldn't think you would, especially with our stupid commissioner of the Summit.

Absolutely not.

UND isn't going anywhere, especially not to a Summit League that is about to have the rug pulled out from under it and then on top of that without a spot in the MVFC. That's ridiculous.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Everyone keeps talking about how it would be better for UN_ to be with their old NCC mates, but really, right now would you leave the "stable" Big Sky to join the Summit and the MVFC? I wouldn't think you would, especially with our stupid commissioner of the Summit.

Yep but stable as you like, spending all that money on travel and never seeing the top half of the standings in almost any sport will start to get a little wearying.

[UNDColorado]

I hope that the Summit doesn't crumble. Although losing Oakland is a huge loss this still opens up the doors for Douple to make this league centered more around the Northern Plains.

I agree that IUPUI & IPFW would probably bolt if given the chance--not sure if the Horizon is that desperate for teams yet. That would require more movement from the MVC, OVC, A10, & even the MAC to (assuming they fill their voids with Horizon teams)

I'm a fan of adding UND & UNC to the Summit (NCC 2.0) It makes way more sense for UND to be with their old counterparts rather than slinging all their teams all across the West. Get this:

North Dakota State
South Dakota State
North Dakota
South Dakota
Omaha
Northern Colorado
Denver
Western Illinois
IUPUI
IPFW

Western & the Indiana Acronyms would obviously be in ****ty positions.

Throw in the Montanas and that could be a hell of a conference...albeit not very realistic to happen.

[darell1976]

Yep but stable as you like, spending all that money on travel and never seeing the top half of the standings in almost any sport will start to get a little wearying.

UND did pretty good its first year in the conference making the playoffs in men's basketball and volleyball. They did struggle in football (crappy defense), and in women's basketball (new coach). But with a year under our belt it should get better from here.

[Gil Dobie]

My insider was told by the Montana powers that be, was that NDSU was too good for the Big Sky. Competing against Montana and Montana St was tough enough without adding NDSU to their schedules. This is just what I was told by someone in the Montana system.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

My insider was told by the Montana powers that be, was that NDSU was too good for the Big Sky. Competing against Montana and Montana St was tough enough without adding NDSU to their schedules. This is just what I was told by someone in the Montana system.

It's a reliable source then. xlolx

[IBleedYellow]

I honestly don't believe we will ever see NDSU in the Big Sky.

[Gil Dobie]

It's a reliable source then. xlolx

I know, I know, but it's Actually it's someone I would trust with my life.

[IBleedYellow]

I know, I know, but it's Actually it's someone I would trust with my life.

Grizo? Seriously?

[Gil Dobie]

Grizo? Seriously?

I would trust Grizo with my Jordan's and flashlight :)

[Bisonator]

My insider was told by the Montana powers that be, was that NDSU was too good for the Big Sky. Competing against Montana and Montana St was tough enough without adding NDSU to their schedules. This is just what I was told by someone in the Montana system.

I heard the same thing.

I think CA schools (SACless) had a hissy fit about the travel too. Course then they add UND. xlolx

[darell1976]

I heard the same thing.

I think CA schools (SACless) had a hissy fit about the travel too. Course then they add UND. xlolx

It was one media guy from Sac St but I think their AD trumps his vote...former UND AD Terry Wanless. I can't see him not wanting UND in.

[sdgriz24]

My insider was told by the Montana powers that be, was that NDSU was too good for the Big Sky. Competing against Montana and Montana St was tough enough without adding NDSU to their schedules. This is just what I was told by someone in the Montana system.
Scared of the Dakota schools? Not sure if serious

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Scared of the Dakota schools? Not sure if serious

Just NDSU

[sdgriz24]

Just NDSU
Why? Props on the win at WaGriz when you were D2 but are you serious?

[Gil Dobie]

Why? Props on the win at WaGriz when you were D2 but are you serious?

Not talking about Montana, but there were teams in the Big Sky that felt that way. No teams were mentioned, but why would Idaho St, for example, want another team beating them every year. That's the context that I took away.

[Silenoz]

And yet they schedule 60 point ass beatings with FBS every year. I think ISU gave up on caring long ago

Plus NDSU wasn't even particularly amazing during the twilight of their DII years (Wa-Griz win aside), so that doesn't really make any sense at all.

[sdgriz24]

Just wondering. Does the endowment of a school have anything to do with conference realignment?.. Im pretty clueless about some elements of how this all works.

[Silenoz]

Not really, otherwise half the CAA would be FBS and Davis would be in the Pac-10

[Gil Dobie]

so that doesn't really make any sense at all.

It came from someone privy to the situation, whether it makes sense to us fans or not, that's what was said.

[MplsBison]

I think the travel argument against adding NDSU and SDSU ultimately won (or lost) the day back in the early 2000's. Some personally blamed Wanless at Sac St. for sinking the ex-NCC rivals' ships...but I doubt one man had that much power. It really wouldn't have surprised me that every school except Montana St and possible Montana was against having to travel to the Dakotas every year, at that time.

As we know, obviously times change and the Big Sky was set to add both UND and USD recently.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

And yet they schedule 60 point ass beatings with FBS every year. I think ISU gave up on caring long ago

Plus NDSU wasn't even particularly amazing during the twilight of their DII years (Wa-Griz win aside), so that doesn't really make any sense at all.

Everybody knew what kind of organization NDSU had. It was only a matter of time when they would be on top. Now they have eclipsed anything that has been done by any team in the BSC.

[sdgriz24]

Everybody knew what kind of organization NDSU had. It was only a matter of time when they would be on top. Now they have eclipsed anything that has been done by any team in the BSC.
Congrats on the repeat. Maybe if NDSU had the gumption to move up sooner they could have more and wouldn't have gotten turned down by the Big Sky the first(maybe only) time around. JK I don't know much about NDSU history and don't care to. D2 always bored me

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Congrats on the repeat. Maybe if NDSU had the gumption to move up sooner they could have more and wouldn't have gotten turned down by the Big Sky the first(maybe only) time around. JK I don't know much about NDSU history and don't care to. D2 always bored me

It couldn't have worked out any better. I love the MVFC.

[Gil Dobie]

Congrats on the repeat. Maybe if NDSU had the gumption to move up sooner they could have more and wouldn't have gotten turned down by the Big Sky the first(maybe only) time around. JK I don't know much about NDSU history and don't care to. D2 always bored me

NDSU tried to move up when everyone else moved in the 1970's. The NCC had some smaller private schools, then added a couple Minnesota State schools that could never move up. Finally when the vote came to move the conference as a whole, only 4 out of 10 voted to move to I-AA. NDSU, SDSU and UNC finally broke away. NDSU then waited a year for SDSU, so they could partner up for a conference.

[sdgriz24]

NDSU tried to move up when everyone else moved in the 1970's. The NCC had some smaller private schools, then added a couple Minnesota State schools that could never move up. Finally when the vote came to move the conference as a whole, only 4 out of 10 voted to move to I-AA. NDSU, SDSU and UNC finally broke away. NDSU then waited a year for SDSU, so they could partner up for a conference.
Ahhh. Gotcha. So NDSU had to wait 20~ years to get where they wanted?

[BisonFan02]

NDSU tried to move up when everyone else moved in the 1970's. The NCC had some smaller private schools, then added a couple Minnesota State schools that could never move up. Finally when the vote came to move the conference as a whole, only 4 out of 10 voted to move to I-AA. NDSU, SDSU and UNC finally broke away. NDSU then waited a year for SDSU, so they could partner up for a conference.

For S's and G's, have the 4/yes and 6/no votes handy school wise?....just for historical reasons :)

[Hambone]

For S's and G's, have the 4/yes and 6/no votes handy school wise?....just for historical reasons :)

I believe it was UNC, NDSU, SDSU and USD that voted yes.

[Twentysix]

For S's and G's, have the 4/yes and 6/no votes handy school wise?....just for historical reasons :)

Wasn't it NDSU SDSU USD UNC for, everyone else against?

[BisonFan02]

Wasn't it NDSU SDSU USD UNC for, everyone else against?

Correct. It was a leading question...notice who's missing?

[NoCoDanny]

Correct. It was a leading question...notice who's missing?

Augustana?

[Laker]

Correct. It was a leading question...notice who's missing?

I had heard that St. Cloud was voting for the move the first day, then changed their vote overnight. And I assume that Mankato was going to do whatever SCSU was doing. It happens too often.

[darell1976]

Correct. It was a leading question...notice who's missing?

Morningside?

[Silenoz]

Everybody knew what kind of organization NDSU had. It was only a matter of time when they would be on top. Now they have eclipsed anything that has been done by any team in the BSC.

I think it's a stretch. Hell they had no problem inviting UNC, who had two more recent championships and for all they knew would be very competitive. But I also know Gil is a stubborn SOB, so if he heard it, he heard it. The location argument just makes way more sense to me

[ursus arctos horribilis]

I think it's a stretch. Hell they had no problem inviting UNC, who had two more recent championships and for all they knew would be very competitive. But I also know Gil is a stubborn SOB, so if he heard it, he heard it. The location argument just makes way more sense to me

Exactly and Gil very well probably did hear that but I'd have to think it was coming from someone that had already decided based on the prior reasoning and then said something off the cuff like that. Saying that programs knew around the BSC that NDSU was gonna be some powerhouse that they should make a decision 10 yrs. ago based on what they thought might come true is obviously a joke or platitude.

[IBleedYellow]

Well, does it honestly matter now? Nope.

Would we have even been able to win National Titles if we were in the Big Sky? Doesn't matter, we are in the MVFC, a conference I am proud to say we are in. Would I be proud to say we were in the Big Sky? Of course, but we are not. So I am proud we are in the MVFC, we have UNI here.

[Twentysix]

Well, does it honestly matter now? Nope.

Would we have even been able to win National Titles if we were in the Big Sky? Doesn't matter, we are in the MVFC, a conference I am proud to say we are in. Would I be proud to say we were in the Big Sky? Of course, but we are not. So I am proud we are in the MVFC, we have UNI here.

I missed the purple the first time I read this and couldn't figure out what kind of drug you were on.

[sdgriz24]

Well, does it honestly matter now? Nope.

Would we have even been able to win National Titles if we were in the Big Sky? Doesn't matter, we are in the MVFC, a conference I am proud to say we are in. Would I be proud to say we were in the Big Sky? Of course, but we are not. So I am proud we are in the MVFC, we have UNI here.
Maybe Im biased but cotdamn NDSU,UND,SDSU,USD,UM,MSU should all be in the same conference. Politics be damned

[frozennorth]

Maybe Im biased but cotdamn NDSU,UND,SDSU,USD,UM,MSU should all be in the same conference. Politics be damned
and geography :) 3 of the four dakotas ended up in the right spot.

[sdgriz24]

and geography :) 3 of the four dakotas ended up in the right spot.
When you're from Montana;distance never seems like a barrier ;) (excuse my sentence structure)

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

Maybe Im biased but cotdamn NDSU,UND,SDSU,USD,UM,MSU should all be in the same conference. Politics be damned


Ya, they should.

[Bisonator]

Maybe Im biased but cotdamn NDSU,UND,SDSU,USD,UM,MSU should all be in the same conference. Politics be damned

I agree. The question is would those schools ever think of starting their own conference?

The BSC is just way too spread out to be much of an option IMO. Get rid of the west coast and southwest schools and NDSU would join in a second. I don't see that happening.

[darell1976]

and geography :) 3 of the four dakotas ended up in the right spot.

So did UND...a home for their football team. Travel doesn't matter when you try to get a home in an AQ conference, right? I mean it didn't bother NDSU or SDSU when they tried to get into the BSC when the MVFC was not an option. In the end it worked out for all 4 Dakota teams.

[Gil Dobie]

I think it's a stretch. Hell they had no problem inviting UNC, who had two more recent championships and for all they knew would be very competitive. But I also know Gil is a stubborn SOB, so if he heard it, he heard it. The location argument just makes way more sense to me

I can call the person up and hear it again whenever I want. They lived and worked in Montana at the time and had access to your President, AD and coaches.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

It makes zero sense for NDSU, SDSU, UND, and USD to be in their own conference - at least with college athletics being the way they are now.

It makes sense for NDSU and SDSU to be in the Missouri Valley, and UND and USD to be in a Summit football-like structure, with USD/SDSU and UND/NDSU matchups OOC if desired. That generates the maximum out of those four schools, IMO, without pigeonholing a conference to be the "Dakotas-only" conference.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

It makes zero sense for NDSU, SDSU, UND, and USD to be in their own conference - at least with college athletics being the way they are now.

It makes sense for NDSU and SDSU to be in the Missouri Valley, and UND and USD to be in a Summit football-like structure, with USD/SDSU and UND/NDSU matchups OOC if desired. That generates the maximum out of those four schools, IMO, without pigeonholing a conference to be the "Dakotas-only" conference.

At Lehigh you should be acutely sensitive to breaking up a rivalry. Imagine if Lafayette were put into a different conference for whatever reason. the SD's and ND's need to stay together more than the SU's and the U's

[MplsBison]

It makes zero sense for NDSU, SDSU, UND, and USD to be in their own conference - at least with college athletics being the way they are now.

It makes sense for NDSU and SDSU to be in the Missouri Valley, and UND and USD to be in a Summit football-like structure, with USD/SDSU and UND/NDSU matchups OOC if desired. That generates the maximum out of those four schools, IMO, without pigeonholing a conference to be the "Dakotas-only" conference.

What do you mean "generates the maximum"?

[MplsBison]

Maybe Im biased but cotdamn NDSU,UND,SDSU,USD,UM,MSU should all be in the same conference. Politics be damned

The Dakota flagships are all right on a line north-south with each other along interstate I-29, the farthest trip being from Grand Forks to Vermillion which is 377mi. or about a 5 hour trip averaging 75mph (not sure if that's reasonable from I-29 to Vermillion..)

All are obviously in the central time zone.


Contrast that with the Montana schools, which are both in the mountain time zone. Shortest trip is Fargo to Bozeman at 752miles or about 10 hours averaging 75mph. The other Dakota's to Bozeman are 800-900 mile trips. Going to Missoula adds another 204 mi. to each school's trip (same travel point).


Not saying I disagree with you necessarily, I'm just saying that it's not quite as simple as saying that ND, SD & MT are bordering states.

[darell1976]

It makes zero sense for NDSU, SDSU, UND, and USD to be in their own conference - at least with college athletics being the way they are now.

It makes sense for NDSU and SDSU to be in the Missouri Valley, and UND and USD to be in a Summit football-like structure, with USD/SDSU and UND/NDSU matchups OOC if desired. That generates the maximum out of those four schools, IMO, without pigeonholing a conference to be the "Dakotas-only" conference.

Are you trying to compare this to what Florida-FSU does or Iowa-ISU? Intrastate rivals in different conferences? Nothing intensifies a rival than being in the same conference. That is one thing that made the UND-NDSU rival so heated was that most likely only one team from the NCC was going to the playoffs (with 16 teams in a 4 team regional setting) so whoever won the NCC was going to make it while the second place team would pray for a bid. All four belong in the same conference.

[MplsBison]

There's also Kentucky-Louisville, Clemson-South Carolina, Georgia-Georgia Tech, Utah-BYU....off the top of my head.

Really what makes a good rivalry in my mind is: 1) playing every year and 2) competitive, back-and-forth games.

[darell1976]

There's also Kentucky-Louisville, Clemson-South Carolina, Georgia-Georgia Tech, Utah-BYU....off the top of my head.

Really what makes a good rivalry in my mind is: 1) playing every year and 2) competitive, back-and-forth games.

Glad to see South Dakota has that going on for them.

[BisonFan02]

Glad to see South Dakota has that going on for them.

See point #2

[Lehigh Football Nation]

At Lehigh you should be acutely sensitive to breaking up a rivalry. Imagine if Lafayette were put into a different conference for whatever reason. the SD's and ND's need to stay together more than the SU's and the U's

To me, an outsider, the UND/NDSU rivalry is the most bitter - so bitter, in fact, that it's driven UND and NDSU to different conferences in football.

I feel like NDSU/SDSU has filled that gap admirably.

It's sort of odd to me that UND/USD don't share something similar. I guess USD/SDSU is a bigger deal.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

To me, an outsider, the UND/NDSU rivalry is the most bitter - so bitter, in fact, that it's driven UND and NDSU to different conferences in football.

I feel like NDSU/SDSU has filled that gap admirably.

It's sort of odd to me that UND/USD don't share something similar. I guess USD/SDSU is a bigger deal.

Yup.


http://www.mitchellrepublic.com/media/story/jpg/2011/10/13/coyote-jackrabbit-billboard1.jpg

http://www.mitchellrepublic.com/event/article/id/57796



BROOKINGS — The SDSU-USD rivalry is revving up again, thanks to a billboard and a dead coyote.

On Tuesday, a coyote, the symbol of the University of South Dakota, was spotted hanging dead from a billboard that USD had placed south of Brookings, the home of South Dakota State University, in September.

[LeeshaJo]

Yup.


http://www.mitchellrepublic.com/media/story/jpg/2011/10/13/coyote-jackrabbit-billboard1.jpg

http://www.mitchellrepublic.com/event/article/id/57796

I live in what is considered (I question it. I think the SDSU fans are more vocal at least.) to be Coyote Country... 30 miles from USD's Campus. In our town of ~15,000 there are about ~2000+ USD grads and ~ 1500 give or take SDSU Grads (these are best guesses/IE I am being lazy and am not looking up the actual numbers) What jumps out at me when comparing the SDSU-USD Vs. NDSU-UND rivalries is, while in South Dakota we grew up either "screwing the U" or "Hating State" most of the population prefers one or the other, but will support the other school when not facing each other. I don't get that feeling with the NODak Schools. I genuinely think they relish when the other school fails... at anything.

My Homer-ism forces me to add, I really believe the majority of SoDak are State fans, because SDSU moved up first and got all the attention. If you go back to the 90's it was more evenly split. my graduating class had 80 kids about 35 went to SDSU/35 to USD I think that was pretty common.

[MplsBison]

Honestly, I love that. Not the dead Coyote, of course, but the USD billboard in Brookings.

If NDSU/UND ever starts up again, I would love to see a NDSU Bison billboard facing northbound traffic south of Grand Forks.

[MplsBison]

I live in what is considered (I question it. I think the SDSU fans are more vocal at least.) to be Coyote Country... 30 miles from USD's Campus. In our town of ~15,000 there are about ~2000+ USD grads and ~ 1500 give or take SDSU Grads (these are best guesses/IE I am being lazy and am not looking up the actual numbers) What jumps out at me when comparing the SDSU-USD Vs. NDSU-UND rivalries is, while in South Dakota we grew up either "screwing the U" or "Hating State" most of the population prefers one or the other, but will support the other school when not facing each other. I don't get that feeling with the NODak Schools. I genuinely think they relish when the other school fails... at anything.

My Homer-ism forces me to add, I really believe the majority of SoDak are State fans, because SDSU moved up first and got all the attention. If you go back to the 90's it was more evenly split. my graduating class had 80 kids about 35 went to SDSU/35 to USD I think that was pretty common.

Yep.

You'll see a lot of NDSU fans online (I get the feeling they are old timers) who challenge me being an NDSU fan because I do hope for the best for UND when they're not playing NDSU.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

I live in what is considered (I question it. I think the SDSU fans are more vocal at least.) to be Coyote Country... 30 miles from USD's Campus. In our town of ~15,000 there are about ~2000+ USD grads and ~ 1500 give or take SDSU Grads (these are best guesses/IE I am being lazy and am not looking up the actual numbers) What jumps out at me when comparing the SDSU-USD Vs. NDSU-UND rivalries is, while in South Dakota we grew up either "screwing the U" or "Hating State" most of the population prefers one or the other, but will support the other school when not facing each other. I don't get that feeling with the NODak Schools. I genuinely think they relish when the other school fails... at anything.

My Homer-ism forces me to add, I really believe the majority of SoDak are State fans, because SDSU moved up first and got all the attention. If you go back to the 90's it was more evenly split. my graduating class had 80 kids about 35 went to SDSU/35 to USD I think that was pretty common.

I've always considered it a Fargo/Grand Forks thing.

[Silenoz]

UM and MSU did the same thing the other year with billboards

Of course they choose to make some chubby girl the centerpiece of theirs for some reason...

17701

[darell1976]

Yep.

You'll see a lot of NDSU fans online (I get the feeling they are old timers) who challenge me being an NDSU fan because I do hope for the best for UND when they're not playing NDSU.

You also have NDSU fans that are UND hockey fans, but not too many UND fans will cheer for SU in anything.

[MplsBison]

UM and MSU did the same thing the other year with billboards

Of course they choose to make some chubby girl the centerpiece of theirs for some reason...

17701

http://headtothe.net/wp-content/gallery/nhl/fulton1.jpg

[IBleedYellow]

You also have NDSU fans that are UND hockey fans, but not too many UND fans will cheer for SU in anything.

I don't understand those people. The hate that occurs between these schools is intense. How could a NDSU fan in their right mind pay to go to a UND game and see their rivals.

Let's put this into perspective, I honestly won't even wear NDSU colors when I'm watching SCSU play UND up at the Ralph for fear of my well being. It's either the drunks I'm worried about or the older fans, the students could care less, oddly enough.

[darell1976]

I don't understand those people. The hate that occurs between these schools is intense. How could a NDSU fan in their right mind pay to go to a UND game and see their rivals.

Let's put this into perspective, I honestly won't even wear NDSU colors when I'm watching SCSU play UND up at the Ralph for fear of my well being. It's either the drunks I'm worried about or the older fans, the students could care less, oddly enough.

Me and my wife went to a NDSU-WIU game she wore bison gear and I wore a Sioux hat this was around 2008 or 2009 I got a few looks and I just chuckled at the Sioux Suck chant. I am sure the WIU fans were puzzled at the chant.

[Bisonator]

I think it's completely different depending on if you went to NDSU or und or neither. Obviously, it is a little more intense when you are an alum. As a former Bison, there is no way I would ever root for the wioux in anything and I sure as heck would not expect an undie to root for NDSU in anything. There is no hatred toward the wioux, for they are not even worthy of hatred! :D

[IBleedYellow]

Just want to post this here.

Gene Taylor was on the radio today on 740am

He is not nearly as worried as any of you guys are. I have faith that Gene knows what's going on way more than any of us. Look where he brought us from.

Part 1 (http://pro.kvox-am.tritonflex.com/upload/5-9-13genept1.mp3) Part 2 (http://pro.kvox-am.tritonflex.com/upload/5-9-13genept2.mp3)

Back AWAY from the cliff people.

[UNDColorado]

Maybe Im biased but cotdamn NDSU,UND,SDSU,USD,UM,MSU should all be in the same conference. Politics be damned

This would be an awesome conference!

[344Johnson]

To me, an outsider, the UND/NDSU rivalry is the most bitter - so bitter, in fact, that it's driven UND and NDSU to different conferences in football.

I feel like NDSU/SDSU has filled that gap admirably.

It's sort of odd to me that UND/USD don't share something similar. I guess USD/SDSU is a bigger deal.

Sounds about right to me.


You also have NDSU fans that are UND hockey fans, but not too many UND fans will cheer for SU in anything.

Strange...when my friends up at UN_ wanna see a football game they ask me if I can snag them Bison tickets. I always enjoy that.

[MarkyMark]

You also have NDSU fans that are UND hockey fans, but not too many UND fans will cheer for SU in anything.

That's wishful thinking on your part.

There are a lot more UND grads going to Bison football games than you think. Most people I know are Bison football fans and Sioux Hockey fans. The UND move to Big Sky plus the growth of NDSU football and the popularity of UND hockey has created a generation of fans that cheer for both schools.

I don't think younger people care about the rivalry.

[darell1976]

Sounds about right to me.



Strange...when my friends up at UN_ wanna see a football game they ask me if I can snag them Bison tickets. I always enjoy that.

I did say not to many UND fans would cheer for SU. I didn't say there were none.

[darell1976]

That's wishful thinking on your part.

There are a lot more UND grads going to Bison football games than you think. Most people I know are Bison football fans and Sioux Hockey fans. The UND move to Big Sky plus the growth of NDSU football and the popularity of UND hockey has created a generation of fans that cheer for both schools.

I don't think younger people don't care about the rivalry.

That's the sad reality of not being in the same conference. Even when the two meet in basketball it's not met with the same hype as it used to be. And since football has been in limbo for 10 years the only hype we have is a potential meeting but usually something happens to crush that thought. Until UND and NDSU are in the same conference whether its the BSC, MVFC, or an FBS conference the rivalry will keep diminishing.

[344Johnson]

I did say not to many UND fans would cheer for SU. I didn't say there were none.

It's a growing demographic ;)

[darell1976]

It's a growing demographic ;)

Until they are back in the same conference then the hatred can grow.

[MarkyMark]

I am very tired of the hatred and I will be glad if the younger generation lets it develop into a friendly rivalry like we have with SDSU. I am not an alum of either school but follow NDSU football closely.

I think NDSU and UND should play in football just because we are so close geographically and both have had trouble filling their non-conference schedules. On the other hand NDSU football has really over-taken the region and part of the reason is the traditional UND fans don't have to choose between the 2 schools anymore so not playing each other in football might be in NDSU's best interest.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

I am very tired of the hatred and I will be glad if the younger generation lets it develop into a friendly rivalry like we have with SDSU. I am not an alum of either school but follow NDSU football closely.

I think NDSU and UND should play in football just because we are so close geographically and both have had trouble filling their non-conference schedules. On the other hand NDSU football has really over-taken the region and part of the reason is the traditional UND fans don't have to choose between the 2 schools anymore so not playing each other in football might be in NDSU's best interest.

List of not friendly rivalries

Michigan - Ohio State
Alabama -Auburn
USC - Notre Dame
Oklahoma - Texas
UNC -Duke

Ask any fan or alum if they would like those to cool off. That's what it's there for.

Fargo native, NDSU Alum

[IBleedYellow]

I am very tired of the hatred and I will be glad if the younger generation lets it develop into a friendly rivalry like we have with SDSU. I am not an alum of either school but follow NDSU football closely.

I think NDSU and UND should play in football just because we are so close geographically and both have had trouble filling their non-conference schedules. On the other hand NDSU football has really over-taken the region and part of the reason is the traditional UND fans don't have to choose between the 2 schools anymore so not playing each other in football might be in NDSU's best interest.

I'm sorry, but I don't believe it will EVER be a friendly rivalry like the on we have with SDSU.

I still remember when I was about 8 yelling "Sioux Suck!!"

It just has such a great ring to it. I love to hate UND. Everyone that is NDSU loves to hate UND.


That said, I don't really want to play them again and I like that we are in seperate conferences where we can't play that often. The best part is this really bugs other people like crazy that they aren't playing.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

List of not friendly rivalries

Michigan - Ohio State
Alabama -Auburn
USC - Notre Dame
Oklahoma - Texas
UNC -Duke

Ask any fan or alum if they would like those to cool off. That's what it's there for.

Fargo native, NDSU Alum

I guess for some it is that way. The phony manufactured hatred is pretty f'n dumb to me though.

[MarkyMark]

List of not friendly rivalries

Michigan - Ohio State
Alabama -Auburn
USC - Notre Dame
Oklahoma - Texas
UNC -Duke

Ask any fan or alum if they would like those to cool off. That's what it's there for.

Fargo native, NDSU Alum

Maybe I spend too much time on Bisonville and AGS but the lame jokes and too frequent posting about UND by NDSU fans gets old. Its let up recently. I know it goes both ways, there is just a lot more active Bison fans online than UND fans.

[IBleedYellow]

Maybe I spend too much time on Bisonville and AGS but the lame jokes and too frequent posting about UND by NDSU fans gets old. Its let up recently. I know it goes both ways, there is just a lot more active Bison fans online than UND fans.

Most of the sane Bison fans are on here. There are no sane UND fans. ;)

I've noticed most UND fans only post on B'ville and Siouxsports.

I prefer posting with the rest of the nation on AGS instead of SS or BV.

[MarkyMark]

I'm sorry, but I don't believe it will EVER be a friendly rivalry like the on we have with SDSU.

I still remember when I was about 8 yelling "Sioux Suck!!"

It just has such a great ring to it. I love to hate UND. Everyone that is NDSU loves to hate UND.


That said, I don't really want to play them again and I like that we are in seperate conferences where we can't play that often. The best part is this really bugs other people like crazy that they aren't playing.

If you want to see the Bison brand continue to grow in this region which has a very limited population, your best way to do it is to not alienate half the population that lives here with an offensive chant. You don't have to like UND, just ignore em. I have gone to NDSU games with a UND grad for the past 20 years. He would still root for UND in a matchup but his season ticket dollars go to NDSU. His son is totally a Bison fan. NDSU football is king in this area, lets keep doing things to grow the brand. NDSU doesn't need the rivalry with UND anymore to keep gaining popularity.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

If you want to see the Bison brand continue to grow in this region which has a very limited population, your best way to do it is to not alienate half the population that lives here with an offensive chant. You don't have to like UND, just ignore em. I have gone to NDSU games with a UND grad for the past 20 years. He would still root for UND in a matchup but his season ticket dollars go to NDSU. His son is totally a Bison fan. NDSU football is king in this area, lets keep doing things to grow the brand. NDSU doesn't need the rivalry with UND anymore to keep gaining popularity.

Stand near any small group of Bison fans and start singing "On the Plains of North Dakota....." I'll bet by the time you finish that phrase everyone will have joined.

[344Johnson]

If you want to see the Bison brand continue to grow in this region which has a very limited population, your best way to do it is to not alienate half the population that lives here with an offensive chant. You don't have to like UND, just ignore em. I have gone to NDSU games with a UND grad for the past 20 years. He would still root for UND in a matchup but his season ticket dollars go to NDSU. His son is totally a Bison fan. NDSU football is king in this area, lets keep doing things to grow the brand. NDSU doesn't need the rivalry with UND anymore to keep gaining popularity.

Some don't see that. A lot of UND fans choose to put on some kelly-green glasses and pretend it'd be great for both sides. It'd really benefit NDSU only marginally while giving UND a lot of credibility(if the game was very competitive or God forbid UND won) that they have lost among their own fans and the typical Joe in the region.

[darell1976]

List of not friendly rivalries

Michigan - Ohio State
Alabama -Auburn
USC - Notre Dame
Oklahoma - Texas
UNC -Duke

Ask any fan or alum if they would like those to cool off. That's what it's there for.

Fargo native, NDSU Alum

I get the other rivals because they are close on travel but how did USC-ND become a big rival. Different conference and different parts of the country.

[darell1976]

I'm sorry, but I don't believe it will EVER be a friendly rivalry like the on we have with SDSU.

I still remember when I was about 8 yelling "Sioux Suck!!"

It just has such a great ring to it. I love to hate UND. Everyone that is NDSU loves to hate UND.


That said, I don't really want to play them again and I like that we are in seperate conferences where we can't play that often. The best part is this really bugs other people like crazy that they aren't playing.

It bugs people that grew up with the rivalry more than the people that didn't grow up with it. I want them to play.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

I get the other rivals because they are close on travel but how did USC-ND become a big rival. Different conference and different parts of the country.

According to the USC media guide. Knute Rockne's wife wanted the trip to Southern California every 2 years. That sounds apocryphal but could be legit.

[frozennorth]

I don't understand those people. The hate that occurs between these schools is intense. How could a NDSU fan in their right mind pay to go to a UND game and see their rivals.

Let's put this into perspective, I honestly won't even wear NDSU colors when I'm watching SCSU play UND up at the Ralph for fear of my well being. It's either the drunks I'm worried about or the older fans, the students could care less, oddly enough.

you see a fair amount of NDSU bumper stickers and gear on UND's campus. Not alot, by any means.

Oddly enough I was dealing blackjack the other night, and noticed a guy around 50 y/o with what looked like a class ring on, then i noticed the football on the middle of it. Turned out it was a 1986 title ring from NDSU, the guy played corner that year. He was wearing a sioux hockey hat. I was deeply embarrassed for him.



Strange...when my friends up at UN_ wanna see a football game they ask me if I can snag them Bison tickets. I always enjoy that.
every time i go to an NDSU game i see people i went to school with at UND. even 'diehard und fans'

[MarkyMark]

Some don't see that. A lot of UND fans choose to put on some kelly-green glasses and pretend it'd be great for both sides. It'd really benefit NDSU only marginally while giving UND a lot of credibility(if the game was very competitive or God forbid UND won) that they have lost among their own fans and the typical Joe in the region.

Agreed with everything except there would be a nice financial windfall for NDSU. We would lose 1 home game every other year but you could charge whatever amount you want for that game when it comes back to the dome. Plus you have 1 less non-conference game to find each year. I am fine with no game however as long as we can fill our schedule and don't have any other teams pull a Mt. State on us.

[darell1976]

you see a fair amount of NDSU bumper stickers and gear on UND's campus. Scarily enough I was dealing blackjack the other night, and noticed a guy around 50 y/o with what looked like a class ring on, then i noticed the football on the middle of it. Turned out it was a 1986 title ring from NDSU, the guy played corner that year. He was wearing a sioux hockey hat. I was deeply embarrassed for him.

It's like that in Fargo to. There is a gas station in North Fargo that on their sign says UND and NDSU t-shirts and sweatshirts. Plus UND bumper stickers, license plate holder, etc. it's getting more common as both teams stay in different conferences.

[MSUBobcat]

I guess for some it is that way. The phony manufactured hatred is pretty f'n dumb to me though.

xoutofrepx
I've said this before. As someone who grew up in ND until I was 17 and MT pretty much ever since (I'm 33 now), the difference in the animosity is astounding. With such small population bases and only 2 upper echelon teams in each state, it doesn't make sense to me to have such "hatred" toward the other team and its fans. Unless you live in Bozeman or Missoula, you'd have to "hate" your neighbors and in many cases good friends. For me the Cat-Griz rivalry is very intense and leads to lots of $h!t talking between me and Griz fans I know, but at the end of the day, if it's not Cat-Griz week, I hope the Griz do well. In fact, nothing would please me more than a Cat-Griz NC game. In ND it seems that nothing would please the fanbases more than if their rival's bus careened off a cliff. This weird hatred often ends in thread derailments. With that said, carry on UND and NDSU fans.

[darell1976]

xoutofrepx
I've said this before. As someone who grew up in ND until I was 17 and MT pretty much ever since (I'm 33 now), the difference in the animosity is astounding. With such small population bases and only 2 upper echelon teams in each state, it doesn't make sense to me to have such "hatred" toward the other team and its fans. Unless you live in Bozeman or Missoula, you'd have to "hate" your neighbors and in many cases good friends. For me the Cat-Griz rivalry is very intense and leads to lots of $h!t talking between me and Griz fans I know, but at the end of the day, if it's not Cat-Griz week, I hope the Griz do well. In fact, nothing would please me more than a Cat-Griz NC game. In ND it seems that nothing would please the fanbases more than if their rival's bus careened off a cliff. This weird hatred often ends in thread derailments. With that said, carry on UND and NDSU fans.

Actually you hit the nail on the head. If an NDSU player gets arrested UND fans are happy, if a UND player gets a DUI Bison fans love it. If NDSU or UND goes 11-0 and the other goes 0-11, there would be more talk about the 0-11 than the 11-0. Students now don't know much about the rival except that it was very hatred. I think the 90's more than any decade was more hatred than any. In the 80's NDSU dominated us, and of course most UND fans knew when we faced the NC Bison we were in for a pounding. Roger Thomas took over in 1986 UND was at the bottom and NDSU on top racking up NC after NC. Nothing could stop them. Then the 1990's happen and the series shifted when UND broke the streak of 12 years to NDSU in 1993 UND threw it back at NDSU that we were no cellar dweller or cupcake, you play us you will get a full 60 minutes of a hard fought game. If NDSU joined the Big Sky the rival would be more hated and more intense than it was in DII. The same if UND joined the MVFC. NDSU's fight with UNI and SDSU would not even come close to a fight with UND (talking hatred not games). All you have to do is read the threads at Bisonville.com and siouxsports.com and you see hatred on both sides, and when fans (on both sides) say they are over the other or have moved on.....BS!!!!

[Laker]

As a relatively neutral (we had our asses kicked to many times by both schools) observer- UND v NDSU was the biggest rivalry in D2. The two schools thoroughly enjoyed any time that the other lost. I worked at both schools for basketball camps and heard plenty of stories about the other side. It wasn't just football- it was all sports. Look at what both schools did in football and women's basketball.

If the two schools were in the same conference again the rivalry would heat up. The Nickel Trophy would be up for grabs again. It would be nasty- and epic.

[darell1976]

As a relatively neutral (we had our asses kicked to many times by both schools) observer- UND v NDSU was the biggest rivalry in D2. The two schools thoroughly enjoyed any time that the other lost. I worked at both schools for basketball camps and heard plenty of stories about the other side. It wasn't just football- it was all sports. Look at what both schools did in football and women's basketball.

If the two schools were in the same conference again the rivalry would heat up. The Nickel Trophy would be up for grabs again. It would be nasty- and epic.

That made the rivalry heat up more is when one school tried to steal the trophy from the other school..and got it. However with UND's name change I don't know if they would use the nickel (which is at UND) or start a new one if they were in the same conference.

[344Johnson]

xoutofrepx
I've said this before. As someone who grew up in ND until I was 17 and MT pretty much ever since (I'm 33 now), the difference in the animosity is astounding. With such small population bases and only 2 upper echelon teams in each state, it doesn't make sense to me to have such "hatred" toward the other team and its fans. Unless you live in Bozeman or Missoula, you'd have to "hate" your neighbors and in many cases good friends. For me the Cat-Griz rivalry is very intense and leads to lots of $h!t talking between me and Griz fans I know, but at the end of the day, if it's not Cat-Griz week, I hope the Griz do well. In fact, nothing would please me more than a Cat-Griz NC game. In ND it seems that nothing would please the fanbases more than if their rival's bus careened off a cliff. This weird hatred often ends in thread derailments. With that said, carry on UND and NDSU fans.

Just got a boner in the library at the thought....

[IBleedYellow]

That made the rivalry heat up more is when one school tried to steal the trophy from the other school..and got it. However with UND's name change I don't know if they would use the nickel (which is at UND) or start a new one if they were in the same conference.


Notice how he pointed out where the Nickel is?! FML. I'm honestly ready for the rivalry to stay dead, but it won't happen.

Sidenote: We derailed this thread without even trying. I am sorry Ursus, it really doesn't happen intentionally. :D

I hope we are able to keep the Summit alive somehow and stay in the MVFC. Gene Taylor had a great interview today on 740 if you would go back a few posts and check that out.

[Southern Bison]

Notice how he pointed out where the Nickel is?!

There's a few of us that would be more than willing to fix that. Remember how NDSU displayed it proudly in the middle of the Student Union while UND hid it in the athletics building?

[UNDBIZ]

xoutofrepx
I've said this before. As someone who grew up in ND until I was 17 and MT pretty much ever since (I'm 33 now), the difference in the animosity is astounding. With such small population bases and only 2 upper echelon teams in each state, it doesn't make sense to me to have such "hatred" toward the other team and its fans. Unless you live in Bozeman or Missoula, you'd have to "hate" your neighbors and in many cases good friends. For me the Cat-Griz rivalry is very intense and leads to lots of $h!t talking between me and Griz fans I know, but at the end of the day, if it's not Cat-Griz week, I hope the Griz do well. In fact, nothing would please me more than a Cat-Griz NC game. In ND it seems that nothing would please the fanbases more than if their rival's bus careened off a cliff. This weird hatred often ends in thread derailments. With that said, carry on UND and NDSU fans.

Each time the bisons played the goophers in football I was asked who I was rooting for..... I was hoping for a tornado. xangelx

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

As a relatively neutral (we had our asses kicked to many times by both schools) observer- UND v NDSU was the biggest rivalry in D2. The two schools thoroughly enjoyed any time that the other lost. I worked at both schools for basketball camps and heard plenty of stories about the other side. It wasn't just football- it was all sports. Look at what both schools did in football and women's basketball.

If the two schools were in the same conference again the rivalry would heat up. The Nickel Trophy would be up for grabs again. It would be nasty- and epic.



UND is hockey 1st and always will be. The 'rivalry' would even become more heated if NDSU had a hockey team.

I was hoping for a game this year between the schools in FB. It would have been an epic NDSU beatdown.

[CopperCat]

I have no doubt the Big Sky would love to have NDSU. Both from the context of the quality of NDSU's athletic programs (not just football) and the ability to offset the geographic outlier than UND is. I also have no doubt that NDSU football loves its current home. I think the BSC's only hope for attracting NDSU is for the Summit League to crumble. It is on pretty shaky ground right now but it's not in WAC territory yet. Even having said that I think there is still a pretty strong bond between the leadership at NDSU and SDSU and I'm not sure that either is willing to move laterally without the other.

I would actually argue that NAU is the geographic outlier.

NDSU and SDSU are much like MSU and UM in that where one goes so does the other. And right now the Valley is the best place for both of them to be. I don't see either moving to the BSC anytime soon, unless the situation becomes dire.

[bisonnation]

I think you could flip flop the situation and put UND in the Summit too. Would make the conference incredibly stable with 5 original NCC teams. It would never be in danger of losing it's AQ. Dont forget the NCC was easily the best D2 conference on the planet and was incredjble attendance... and this would be a D1 version without the bad teams. It would provide a home for future D1 teams in Minnesota.

And UND could have a blast playing teams like Northern Iowa, SIU, Youngstown, and of course huge rivalries with not only NDSU but South Dakota and SDSU.

But ndsu to the Big Sky works too.

[darell1976]

Having NDSU in the BSC as a non football member might not be a bad idea, but with the SL tourney in Sioux Falls I can't see the SD teams follow.

[MplsBison]

Having NDSU in the BSC as a non football member might not be a bad idea, but with the SL tourney in Sioux Falls I can't see the SD teams follow.

I suppose it's possible, given the precedent of Fullerton offering Idaho membership for non-football.

[ExpandSpanos]

I remember back when NDSU played @ Cal Poly in the Great West Conference. One of the last games here in San Luis Obispo was the most devastating.. huge NDSU comeback in the 4th quarter.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3XO4QBO4iY

[IBleedYellow]

I still remember hearing this from the great Scotty Miller:

"A touchdown for the Bison!!!"

[Go Bison]

I remember back when NDSU played @ Cal Poly in the Great West Conference. One of the last games here in San Luis Obispo was the most devastating.. huge NDSU comeback in the 4th quarter.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3XO4QBO4iY

I will never forget that game. I was playing poker with the guys and following the game on the computer(ESPN) All of a sudden the cursor moved all the way to a TD. I couldn't believe it.

[MplsBison]

Wasn't Ellerson quoted after that game saying he should be fired for not playing a prevent or at least two-deep defense at that point???

If you watch the video you can obviously see that they left the CB man'ed up on Heckendorf -- bad idea.

[NDB]

I remember that game clearly. Listened to it as we butchered deer in the garage.

Down by 21 with 10:02 in the fourth.

I had to put the knife down after that score I was so shaky.

[Ginsbach]

Having NDSU in the BSC as a non football member might not be a bad idea, but with the SL tourney in Sioux Falls I can't see the SD teams follow.

I still don't think that the BSC is a good fit for any of the Dakota schools. If you look at a map of all the BSC schools + the Dakota schools, you can see a few trends. Namely, there's a core group of schools along a north-south transect.

http://i.imgur.com/f6rsAFK.png


The Dakota schools (and UNC, for that matter) are definite outliers.

[Ginsbach]

Also, I have to laugh at MplsBison's proposed travel partners.


East:
NDSU - UND
SDSU - USD
Montana - MSU
No Colo - Denver

West:
Idaho - ISU
So Utah - Weber St
East Wash - PSU
Sac St - No Ariz

Pocatello to Moscow is 540 miles. There are basically no roads through central Idaho. If you want to go from ISU to Idaho, you either have to cut west across the Snake River Plain to Boise and go straight north or go north to Missoula, west to Coeur d'Alene, and down to Moscow.

Pocatello is closer to Weber State (130 miles), Montana State (240 miles), Montana (360 miles), and Southern Utah (410 miles) and almost the same distance to Northern Colorado (550 miles).

Moscow is closer to Eastern Washington (75 miles), Montana (250 miles), Portland State (360 miles), and Montana State (450 miles).

[MplsBison]

Actually, as far as basketball travel partners go - you'd have some decent pairs:

EWU - Idaho (71 mi)
Montana - MSU (204 mi)
ID St - Weber St (130 mi)
Southern Utah - Northern AZ (289 mi)
UND - NDSU (80 mi)
USD - SDSU (116 mi)

That leaves UNC, Sacramento and Portland as one-offs...but at least they're near decently sized airports. And if Denver could be added, that solves UNC.

The SUU-NAU pair isn't great, but still only 4 hours at 70mph.


There is no purpose for travel partners in football.

[MplsBison]

Also, I have to laugh at MplsBison's proposed travel partners.



Pocatello to Moscow is 540 miles. There are basically no roads through central Idaho. If you want to go from ISU to Idaho, you either have to cut west across the Snake River Plain to Boise and go straight north or go north to Missoula, west to Coeur d'Alene, and down to Moscow.

Pocatello is closer to Weber State (130 miles), Montana State (240 miles), Montana (360 miles), and Southern Utah (410 miles) and almost the same distance to Northern Colorado (550 miles).

Moscow is closer to Eastern Washington (75 miles), Montana (250 miles), Portland State (360 miles), and Montana State (450 miles).

The west could be rearranged as:

EW - Idaho
ISU - Weber
So Utah - NAU
PSU - Sac St

But then Portland to Sac is 580 miles. Pick your poison.

[darell1976]

I still don't think that the BSC is a good fit for any of the Dakota schools. If you look at a map of all the BSC schools + the Dakota schools, you can see a few trends. Namely, there's a core group of schools along a north-south transect.

http://i.imgur.com/f6rsAFK.png


The Dakota schools (and UNC, for that matter) are definite outliers.


Fullerton's future is to have divisions and if that's the case then you could have an east west with the Dakota schools (unsure if the South Dakota schools would be in his plan so if not) the Montana's, plus UNC and maybe ISU and Idaho. He wants 16 teams so you have 12 with Idaho now where the other 4 teams come from maybe the Dakota 3 plus Denver. Anyone's guess at this point but we know the Summit League is fragile and another loss of a team could kill the league.

[MplsBison]

Another thought is that Sac St could join Davis and Poly in the Big West and just be a football affiliate of the Big Sky.

It'd be impossible for Fullerton to deny this to Sac but allow it for Davis and Poly.


As for Portland St. I have to wonder...do they have a chance to join the Sun Belt as a football affliate (partner with Idaho)? They have the market and now they have an FBS level football stadium.

Again, no way Fullerton could deny that to them while allowing it to Idaho.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Another thought is that Sac St could join Davis and Poly in the Big West and just be a football affiliate of the Big Sky.

It'd be impossible for Fullerton to deny this to Sac but allow it for Davis and Poly.


As for Portland St. I have to wonder...do they have a chance to join the Sun Belt as a football affliate (partner with Idaho)? They have the market and now they have an FBS level football stadium.

Again, no way Fullerton could deny that to them while allowing it to Idaho.

He can deny it and doesn't get to make those decisions unilaterally anyway. Not saying it wouldn't be done but stop with the "Know it all" **** as far as what Fullerton can or can not do.

[darell1976]

Another thought is that Sac St could join Davis and Poly in the Big West and just be a football affiliate of the Big Sky.

It'd be impossible for Fullerton to deny this to Sac but allow it for Davis and Poly.


As for Portland St. I have to wonder...do they have a chance to join the Sun Belt as a football affliate (partner with Idaho)? They have the market and now they have an FBS level football stadium.

Again, no way Fullerton could deny that to them while allowing it to Idaho.

Fullerton doesn't want to be losing teams so I don't think he would like to have Sac St and PSU jump ship unless he can get NDSU as an alternate member to replace Sac St, but to gain another football member may be tough, either snag a DII team or sweet talk the MVFC to have NDSU or SDSU as full members(not a chance). It's nice to brainstorm a lot of crazy moves that could happen.

[Gil Dobie]

You know what I heard ;)

[MplsBison]

He can deny it and doesn't get to make those decisions unilaterally anyway. Not saying it wouldn't be done but stop with the "Know it all" **** as far as what Fullerton can or can not do.

Simple matter of logic. No human can logically grant privilege to one member and then turn around and deny it to another member.

Doesn't mean the denial couldn't be based on an emotional or otherwise illogical reason.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Simple matter of logic. No human can logically grant privilege to one member and then turn around and deny it to another member.

Doesn't mean the denial couldn't be based on an emotional or otherwise illogical reason.

The denial is a simple matter of the fact that Sac. was admittted as an all sports member and that's the contract they and the BSC signed up for.

Done.

Because other members were added later for football (partially to help out travel for that same member we are talking about) to now say something different doesn't necessarily jive. If a move like allowing them to be football only in any scenario of PSU, Sac., or whoever then it would likely be granted but if the other members see it aw weakening then it won't. I don't care what your basic logic and thoughts of fairness say. If the contract isn't good for both parties it will not be done. What is best for the community will guide what is done so it can be denied.

[MplsBison]

I see Sacramento, Portland and Northridge were all added to the Big Sky in 1996. Northridge is now a member of the Big West.

Which contract are you referring to, an actual contract or a gentlemen's agreement? If an actual contract was signed, A) does it require those three schools to remain in the Big Sky for all sports only if they are playing football and B) what is the term of the contract, 20 years?

[ursus arctos horribilis]

I see Sacramento, Portland and Northridge were all added to the Big Sky in 1996. Northridge is now a member of the Big West.

Which contract are you referring to, an actual contract or a gentlemen's agreement? If an actual contract was signed, A) does it require those three schools to remain in the Big Sky for all sports only if they are playing football and B) what is the term of the contract, 20 years?

You missed the point completely and are trying to focus on minutia as usual. They were admitted for all sports. If they are not all sports and then decide they want something else then see ya later if it isn't what the conference wants.

Not gonna argue reality with ya or what you think fairness is. Fullerton/Big Sky does not have to make any such accommodations is the point.

If Sac wanted to do as Northridge did and drop football and go to the Big West then there is nothing to talk about anyway. Again, not saying that at some point there wouldn't be value in doing it where Sac might be granted that option but let's not kid ourselves an say that the BSC is a position where they have to or should do it because it's good for one sde. If it's good for both it happens, if not, then it doesn't.

[MplsBison]

I agree, the Big Sky doesn't have to do anything.

While they did make special accommodations for Davis, Poly and Idaho, I suppose they don't have to make the same accommodations for Sac or Portland.

[Herder]

Do I want NDSU playing FB & BB in the mtn & pac time zones? Hell no, if they do, it better be against the MWC.

Is all sports in the B1F going to cost a lotta money for travel? Ah, Yes

Would I rather be in the Summit until they turn the lights out? Yes

Would UND spend an extra million a year in travel costs and feel good about it just to spite NDSU? Clearly they would

[darell1976]

Do I want NDSU playing FB & BB in the mtn & pac time zones? Hell no, if they do, it better be against the MWC.

Is all sports in the B1F going to cost a lotta money for travel? Ah, Yes

Would I rather be in the Summit until they turn the lights out? Yes

Would UND spend an extra million a year in travel costs and feel good about it just to spite NDSU? Clearly they would

Could you explain the spiting NDSU part?

[SDFS]

Would I rather be in the Summit until they turn the lights out? Yes


from your post it is clear that you can play the viola, if you can arrange deck chairs I think you got yourself a summer job on the USS Summit. Good Luck..



Would UND spend an extra million a year in travel costs and feel good about it just to spite NDSU? Clearly they would


In addition, your message implies that UND turned down an invite from Summit League out of spite. I assume at this point the any number of Bison are ready to correct you on topic. You need to consult your Bisonville Message Board Propaganda Manual - Section - "Transition" Subsection- titled "Summit League" note: 6-5.6.a-b4c

UND was never invited to join Summit League therefore UND claims that they had a choice are "false" and should be refuted.

[darell1976]

from your post it is clear that you can play the viola, if you can arrange deck chairs I think you got yourself a summer job on the USS Summit. Good Luck..



In addition, your message implies that UND turned down an invite from Summit League out of spite. I assume at this point the any number of Bison are ready to correct you on topic. You need to consult your Bisonville Message Board Propaganda Manual - Section - "Transition" Subsection- titled "Summit League" note: 6-5.6.a-b4c

UND was never invited to join Summit League therefore UND claims that they had a choice are "false" and should be refuted.

This is all true, at best UND accepted a site visit from the SL but had to cancel that after the Big Sky announced a full membership invitation for UND and USD. If the SL would have countered with an invite to the MVFC then things may have changed. But for now UND is safe and sound in a very stable conference and has homes for all its sports teams and their AQ status is not in jeopardy.

[NDB]

If the SL would have countered with an invite to the MVFC then things may have changed.


Could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure the MVFC and SL are separate entities and that the invite to the MVFC would come from the MVFC.

[darell1976]

Could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure the MVFC and SL are separate entities and that the invite to the MVFC would come from the MVFC.

And you think being in the SL didn't help USD get into the MVFC?

[Herder]

And you think being in the SL didn't help USD get into the MVFC?

The difference between UND and USD . . . USD asked for membership in the MVFC and pushed until they got it. I don't think UND ever made the effort. Just the way it went down. Would UND have gotten into the MVFC also? Yes, by working together with USD they no doubt would have gotten in. It might have taken a little bit longer, but you have to believe that it would have happened in a day or two.

[darell1976]

The difference between UND and USD . . . USD asked for membership in the MVFC and pushed until they got it. I don't think UND ever made the effort. Just the way it went down. Would UND have gotten into the MVFC also? Yes, by working together with USD they no doubt would have gotten in. It might have taken a little bit longer, but you have to believe that it would have happened in a day or two.

Yeah right. USD didn't ask for membership in the MVFC, it was offered to them after the full membership from the Big Sky offered. UND never had a prayer of joining as it was clear from the eastern schools. A deal was made only to make 1 trip to the Dakotas if USD joined. If UND would've known there was a chance of getting into the MVFC they may have hesitated on a full membership to the BSC, but there was ZERO talk about joining the MVFC.

[Herder]

Yeah right. USD didn't ask for membership in the MVFC, it was offered to them after the full membership from the Big Sky offered. UND never had a prayer of joining as it was clear from the eastern schools. A deal was made only to make 1 trip to the Dakotas if USD joined. If UND would've known there was a chance of getting into the MVFC they may have hesitated on a full membership to the BSC, but there was ZERO talk about joining the MVFC.

So, what was UND's preference if an equal opportunity would have existed for Big Sky or Summit/Valley? I would guess that their preference was not alone to the Big Sky. I would guess that their preference would have been with USD to the Big Sky, or with USD to the Summit Valley. Scheduling a press conference alone, without USD, seemed like a big error in judgement by UND. With USD to the Big Sky, they had a travel partner . . . and with USD to the Summit/Valley they had leverage to get the MVFC to move to let both in, and approx 1 million less in travel costs annually.

So, it seems that me that alone to the Big Sky would be choice #3. Seems like UND listened to the urging of the Big Sky to go ahead without USD and schedule a press conf, because the BSC was afraid to lose both schools. Certainly the distain for the Summit Commissioner also played a role in UND jumping to the BSC, and the Summit not making as much of an effort for UND. Staying with USD would have been a good idea IMO.